What the hell is going on in South Africa?

Pretty simple, OP. The proverbial chickens are coming home to roost for the white farmers there. No sympathy for those assholes.

So many white farmers are being murdered there now that they're making formal appeals to various other countries for asylum. It's basically open season on white people with land, with the quiet consent of the government.

Apartheid ended, but there's still a massive wealth gap. This is the result of rich people failing to help the poor in South Africa, just as Trump is the result in USA, Putin in Russia, Brexit in the UK, Erdogan in Turkey, etc etc

White colonizers reaping the eventual rewards of theft and enslavement.

Thoughts and prayers.

I know a number of white South Africans and they basically agree with r4

They're fine

Feel better?

South Africa will be like Zimbabwe.

Yeah, seizing white owned farms, that worked out so well for Zimbabwe. Record levels of famine!

So sad. Was once my favorite country.

Except that at this point the white Boer farmers are all pretty poor and so can't pack up and move to LaJolla or Bondi and so they're kind of fucked. The Brits or Dutch will likely wind up having to take them in.

Kind of a weird situation. The white African farmers ended up in these areas because they were trying to escape British colonization, colonizers they invited in because they, the mostly Dutch descent Afrikaners, wanted to avoid being conquered by the French. A lot of the original Afrikaners were Huguenots trying to avoid slaughter in France. They eventually butted up against the Bantu migration south from the interior The Bantu population is actually not native to what is now known as South Africa. They are also colonizers. Just not as well armed and sophisticated as the Afrikaners and the Brits so they ended up with the short end of the stick.

It's a real cluster fuck of old colonizing populations. If the Afrikaners have no right to be there than by the same rules the Bantu don't either.

Yes they will end up like Zimbabwe, importing food when they are in control of rich farm lands.

If they survive long enough to leave Zaire and Russia are welcoming them in.

And again-- why do Americans and Canadians get a pass on this?

If the Boers should be giving their land back to the Bantus, shouldn't we be turning everything over the the Native Americans (First Nations People)?

And were do you propose the ~360 million non-native people in US and Canada go, r14?

[r 14] And again-- why do Americans and Canadians get a pass on this?

If the Boers should be giving their land back to the Bantus, shouldn't we be turning everything over the the Native Americans (First Nations People)?

That's a noble, Saint worthy thought.

Which First Nation Person/persons have you chosen to turn your property over to.

Keep us posted how it works out for you!

The Bantus never owned the land, they're just finishing their colonialism now.

Post apartheid, the ANC has basically mismanaged the economy and failed to improve conditions for the majority (corruption, extremely high minimum wages etc). Similar to Zimbabwe they will respond with scape-boating whites. Problem is, those white owned farms are efficiently run, productive, and competitive. The sector will basically collapse as it did in Zimbabwe. The ANC will keep the best properties for their core elite and rent them to Chinese or Indian companies on extremely bad terms. This has already started, whites need to get out or launch their own freedom struggle.

R15 The gas chambers?

Apartheid ended 25 years ago. The ancestors of these farmers wronged the black majority. But most of the white farmers of today had nothing to do with that. An entire generation of blacks in South Africa never lived under the evil of Apartheid. The government of South Africa has ruined the economy and are using whites who had nothing to do with Apartheid as a scapegoat.

The original Khoi population at the Cape of Good Hope is today found largely in the more mixed Griqua people as I understand and they largely speak Afrikaans, however, they are also related to other Khoi or San people farther north in Namibia. r14 I think the "toothpaste is out of the tube" as far as the Americas are concerned, or at least many countries in the New World. Bolivia has a majority Native American population as does Guatemala, but your idea of giving everything back is unrealistic at best. I agree that Indian claims deserve a hearing and many of them have (Catawba Indians in South Carolina or Abenaki Indians in Maine for only 2 examples in the last 30 years or so). But telling over 200 million white Americans they all have to pack up and go back to Europe or some 46 million black Americans they have to "go back to Africa" is delusional. Where would some 6 million American Jews go, back to Russia or Poland who probably wouldn't want them? Or Israel who would have nowhere to put them and would cause further resentment among Arab Palestinians? What about mestizo people in Mexico, stay in Mexico and be more Indian or Spain and be more white? South Africa's white population is way smaller (less than 10 million?) and could be pushed out conceivably, back to Britain, France or the Netherlands, but as others pointed out, it would probably end badly as with Zimbabwe.

Leave the bloody kaffirs to it.The whites can emigrate to Europe.

Wow R19. That's a hell of a thing to say.

How about the black population? Do they get marched off to the gas chambers? How about the Mexican and Guatemalans etc? Do they qualify as First Nation Peoples even though they migrated north to the US?

Can you imagine just the Native Americans being left in North America again with huge cities like New York, Chicago or Los Angeles practically ghost towns? Some 3 million people left to rattle around in what used to be the United States.

R4 I thought the same thing, in many instances indigenous people welcomed whites only for them to stab them in the back. Conservatives love calling out racism against whites and implying it is as inherent as whites’ racism towards everyone else but it is the result of their centuries long treatment of non whites. Also interesting how whenever white people are the ones affected we know right away and it is denounced and covered by media.

When non whites move around the world it's called migration.

When whites move around the world it's called...

The United States, I believe, has the largest European descended population (white) outside Europe, on Earth. Well over 200 million. 16 million ethnic Germans were pushed/expelled into Allied occupied Germany post World War II and that was hell on earth for some time until it got relatively more sorted. Would the muslims and other non native people (Indians, Blacks) in Britain, France or the Netherlands move out to their own countries to make way for the European descended people from South Africa? You tell me??!!

Interesting history, R13.

This is so funny - whites leaving almost all countries they’ve settled? People seem awfully eager to start a race war.

Wow [R19]. That's a hell of a thing to say.

I think that poster is a Nazi in late stage dementia. He doesn't know who he'd be marching off to the chambers anymore.

The ANC are feeling their power ebb, and, like any corrupt government in this position, are trying to solidify their support base by appropriating White land.

ZANU-PF under Mugabe did the same trick in Zimbabwe, under the same circumstances, and destroyed the country in the process. Moreover, the people to benefit from White farm seizures have largely been ruling party officials and generals.

South Africa is a British Commonwealth member. As such, I would think it would not be difficult for potentially displaced Whites to secure residency in the UK, Canada, NZ, Australia etc.

Be Best!

Agriculture accounts for a relatively small proportion of the SA economy so the direct impact of land confiscation wouldn't totally destroy the country like it did Zimbabwe or Ukraine under Stalin, but it would seriously harm the investment climate (what would be confiscated next?). tau

Instead of confiscating the farms the government should be encouraging profit sharing / share ownership of the properties with its workers. Basically the farms "go public" and give/issue shares to employees. Gives them an incentive to work hard and actually own a piece of what they're working for.

The ANC is pretty much a bunch of corrupt communists, so it's not surprising they are taking people's property and are envious of anyone who is wealthy.

LOL. I was being facetious at R14, pointing out how odd it is that we are completely unsympathetic to white South Africans (or Israelis for that matter) and yet are guilty of the same in our own country.

You all did, in your own way, grasp the point-- that the colonialism in question happened hundreds of years ago and the solution isn't to "send them back" because at this point there's no "back" to send them to.

And the Trek, where the Boer farmers descendents moved into these lands happened in the 1830s, not the 1930s.

And I’m 100 years when all the whites have been killed South Africa will be even worse off than it ever was. Because of whites, of course.

Black people can’t have anything nice. It’s in their genes to deserve nothing but vicious cycles of being the most disastrous race of all.

I may be way off but didn't this same thing happen under Mugabes' rule some time back? And then all the looted farms fell apart from neglect and incompetence. What's happening now??

The “They deserve it” claims are eerily similar to those about Jews prior to the Holocaust—they were blamed for bankrupting and ruining Germany. R19 proves that.

R31 They are having trouble getting into places like the US and Australia because of the liberal voters who demonize them and instead want to save places for all the non-white economic migrants. They're currently working on a deal to help revitalize empty farmland in Russia.

R37 Yes Mugabe did the same thing. Zaire welcomed the seasoned and experienced farmers in and now they import food to Zimbabwe.

Just because black people were oppressed doesn’t mean they are saints. They are just as shitty as white people.

The displaced SA's have a hard time integrating in their adopted homelands because they are very paranoid. They buy houses and then erect huge walls around them like they do at home in they fear of home invasions. They are not neighborly in the way that Australians etc. are.

R42 Aussies are racist and homophobic as fuck. Neighborly my ass.

What r32 r 37 and r39 said

[quote]Which First Nation Person/persons have you chosen to turn your property over to.

First, we have to establish what First Nation tribe was the most aggressive, murderous and oppressive to other tribes. That may prove difficult because as we know NO native American ever kicked another native American's ass to gain power, land, resources or pussy.

I think you're being sarcastic r45, but to give you just one example of Native American vs. Native American look up in Wikipedia the Eriez nation as they conducted a war against the Iroquois about 1653-1656. No white Europeans (as in explorers or missionary priests who would have written it down) ever contacted the Eriez, but it is thought a French trader or trapper may have briefly spent time in one of their camps. The Iroquois were trading with the Dutch in New Amsterdam/New York and eventually gained the upper hand against the Eriez when they acquired Dutch firearms.

Trade with the Europeans and the conflict it brought in North America among Native American tribes is generally known as the "Beaver Wars" in North America leading to a series of colonial conflicts mirroring European succession wars finally culminating in the final French/British showdown in the French and Indian War of 1756-1763 in which the French were expelled from the North American mainland. The French got theirs back again by supporting the American Revolution in which the British lost their main 13 colonies and after which Canada sort of became their white elephant and India became their main focus thereafter. France is the United States' oldest ally, not Britain, despite their being the "mother country".

^^^^Forgot to add that the Cape of Good Hope in South Africa was the halfway point for European ships on their way to India, China or the East Indies, hence the European settlement there which grew food to resupply ships coming and going. Their "unfortunate" situation of being "strategic" led to all the other misfortunes that spelled "South Africa" up to and including the present.

The Wampanoag made friends with the Pilgrims for the sole purpose in gaining an upper hand against the Narragansett. The Pequot did the same.

"If the Boers should be giving their land back to the Bantus, shouldn't we be turning everything over the the Native Americans (First Nations People)?"

We had the foresight to annihilate them.

R40 There is no Zaire. (now the Democratic Republic of Congo)

I thought Russia was welcoming these farmers?

They'll end up with a Zimbabwean situation. Massive famine and valueless currency.

Oops I meant Zambia.

Its so fucking sad. Joburg is like a war zone. There was such potential after the fall of apartheid. Mandela would be spinning in his grave.

The Rhodesian whites were almost all of British descent and could at least make an argument for being allowed to immigrate back home. (The fact that there weren't that many of them helped.)

But Boers speak Afrikaans not Dutch and come from a variety of European backgrounds, so no actual homeland.

R54 you were correct the first time, it is Zimbabwe. And r55, please elaborate, what do you mean by "potential"--potential for what?

R57 for a peaceful, wealthy democracy. Instead of the criminal, corrupt banana republic its become.

r56 Afrikaans and Dutch are mutually intelligible. Most Dutch will say that Afrikaans sounds like an archaic form of Dutch but is still understandable. r58, if that is "someone's" fault, then whose is it?

R13, I was totally with you until you mentioned Zaire...

R22, not cool. For those who don't know, the K-word is their N-word.

R36, do you think it could be an IQ thing?

r62 = Charles Murray

As long as their displaced farmers don't come to the US...

Some years ago, there was a gay adult film called "South African Summer" or something like that. The actors were really attractive.

Yeah, we've got some shit-eating white supremacists posting in this thread.

The whites have had years to get the fuck out of South Africa, where they never belonged. If they chose to stay, they chose the consequences of staying.

Come enjoy the Boer ass before they're displaced and thrown to the wind.

R66 spoken like a true American. You realise most black people here have white friend, white colleagues, white family members? We don't want a civil war. Fuck off. R58 Greedy fucking bastards, like always.

Boer cock. Smelly, but uncut and excellent when rock hard.

Hilarious his ignorant some of you are about SA. Jesus. Read a fucking book.

English South African cock.

They're fighting over third world spoils.

China lies in wait. Bring on disaster. They'll set things right.

r66, where do you live and who are you? If you are white or black and live in North America, then in theory, according to some here, you don't belong there.

Ignorant statement, R66.

R58 1:There was a 2 tier education system under Apartheid. Black kids were barely educated. Then after 94 they were fast tracked into jobs they weren't remotely ready or qualified for. So the infrastructure crumbled.

2: When sanctions were lifted organised crime took over completely. The untrained police force immediately compromised.

3: AIDS created a generation of orphans living in utter poverty.

4: Old pre Apartheid tribal wars were reignited, this was compounded by mass immigration from the rest of Africa and the current culture is rife with xenophobia.

Its a shit show.

Read.

I remember a ton of rich white South Africans moved to the city I grew up in in the 80s and 90s. They said they feared for their lives but I just thought they were racist. Maybe it was a bit of both

And they were not cool like Yolandi and Ninja

It's sort of like how the Belgians in the Congo never trained native Africans for self government?? When independence came suddenly in 1960 from Belgium the Congo descended into chaos.

I’d be fine going back to Europe and giving everything back to indigenous people if they’d take me. I’m part native too though so would I have a choice?

I was at a dinner party in Toronto and met some of those "afraid" South Africans who fled in the 80's.

They kept talking about what a "paradise" it had been "until the blecks." "Blecks" is how they pronounced "Blacks" and they were convinced that everything in South Africa had been just fine during apartheid.

Back then everyone knew that white South Africans were the worst people in the world but many seem to have forgotten that now.

"Train" them, R79?

How were some white South Africans able to leave and others couldn’t?

R83 Probably a combination of money, connections, and attachment to the land.

With most tribes r80 you have to prove your "Indian" ancestry and they will decide whether you qualify to become a member of the tribe. The Federal government recognizes anyone as Native American who had a grandparent who was Native American IF you can prove it. With some tribes the qualification is at least half Native American, otherwise, tough....

r82, create a civil service that included Africans, if you will then--forget the word "train" if it disturbs you. The British in India had a civil service that included Indians and the Indian people themselves, at least the educated ones, began to develop a western style parliamentary democracy as early as the 1880s as I think that is when the Congress Party was founded. Black Africans were generally denied participation in colonial governments if I am not mistaken although many of the African elites (Kwame Nkrumah in Ghana, Kenneth Kaunda in Zambia--who is still living BTW at age 94, as 2 examples; I'm not sure about where Jomo Kenyatta was educated) were sent to Europe for higher education, not unlike Mohandas K. Gandhi, who, BTW figures prominently in South African history for removing some disabilities against the Indian population in South Africa in the 1890s as a young lawyer before he went back to India.

" White South Africans" are one of the most diverse groups on Earth. There are as many types of "white" as cultures in Europe. Greek, Italian, German, a large Jewish population, Latvian,Swedish etc and each one have a unique hstory and cultural relationship with the different East Asian, African, Indian and mixed race demographics.

My own family are descended from Yugoslavian Jews who escaped the war.

My parents left in The 70s after pissing off the authorities. Even then no other country wanted White South Africans and they only managed to emigrate after they found an ancestral connection to a country ( loophole since closed.)

My extended family remain. I have black and Indian aunts and uncles and mixed race cousins. They have all been affected by crime. 5 of my family have been murdered since 1998. 3 of my close relatives (that I know of) have been raped.

If Julius Malema gets Into power there WILL be a Rwandan style genocide against any non Pedi groups.

So if you could all hold off on the ignorant hatemongering that would be cool.

R81 I know that type of South African. They're embarrassing.

[quote] And again-- why do Americans and Canadians get a pass on this?

Because the land is 100% immigrants, even if they immigrated during an ice age.

R88 Bullshit. The natives didnt deliberately wipe out an entire civilisation. The Canadians were doing worse than the South Africans ever did and recently too. Its not about immigration its about colonialism. And centuries of genocide and abuse.

Thanks for the details, r86. Back in the 80s I worked with a Jewish doctor who had emigrated from South Africa to Houston. I'd guess a doctor in good standing is wanted just about everywhere.

South Africa's whites have biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. If there really is a campaign to steal their land, they can easily defend themselves.

Family wasn't here yet, like most Canadians', R89.

What would you have r89, what do you have in mind for "justice"? Not that it would necessarily pass muster with any of the American or Canadian power elites, but please elaborate......

Were you the one who earlier talked about gas chambers? Bear in mind where that got Adolf Hitler. And the Turks aren't doing so good either due to their heritage of genocide (Armenians, Greeks)--it remains a stumbling block to their membership in the European Union. Yet they steadfastly deny it ever happened.

R92 The 70s. R89 not blatantly breaking the treaties and putting leaky pipelines through their land would be a good start.

R91 What the hell are you smoking and can I have some?

I would also like some of that smoke, R91.

The black South Africans willfully let their brothers and sisters die of AIDS for years with their denialism and Christian bullshit so they can all go to hell.

And the bullshit still rules to this day.

Unreal. When I was first there in 1988, there were 50 cases -- in the whole damn country. Now 2/3rds of the population is apparently infected. Hard to deny.

KILL THE BOER!!!!!!!!

La Jolla or Houston, R77?

Why is it only wrong that the Europeans wanted to kill and take land and not for every other race of people? Why is north america and south africa not rightfully european land?

In many parts of South Africa, whites were there first.

It has nothing to do with racism and is just theft. We all know how well driving whites out and stealing their land worked in Zimbabwe.

r1

Americans should adopt Boer babies.

Life's tough without privilege.

Now that we have shit in our own next with Trump (collectively speaking - I've never voted for a Repug in my life) -- I wish we could use those dna tests and have the right to return to our "homeland." I'm 51% British and 29% "Scandinavian." (11% Irish/Scottish/Welsh). But would I have my choice -- I'd be ok if you could only go to the one with highest percentage. That way, the native Americans could get their land back!! However, I think USA would be the sparsest populated country in the world, except maybe Antarctica (is that a country?)

* next = nest. That'll teach me to be cutesy....

There's no reason they should get anything "back." Land must go to the highest and best use. It's a thing on which civilization is based. They don't have the human capital to administer all that land.

Native Canadians and Americans kill whales. I don't like that.

I meant indigenous people or North America.

AIDS denialism was an unintended consequence of a Constitution that made health care a national right and government responsibility. They couldn't afford the treatments, so they made up an alternative scenario.

Did the Norwegians and Japanese stop killing whales, R108?

And which Americans do? Downeasters? Hawaiians/Alaskans? (should we really call them Americans? sheesh) The New Agers in Seattle and Portland?

R105 I dunno. And is Mexico in South America? Africa is pretty big country, so I've heard.

R110 that is a generous and ridiculous interpretation of cruelty based on bias, hatred and hypocritical sanctimony. Also ruefully low IQ.

Also the President at the time was an HIV+ rapist. Might have had somthing to do with it.

R108, Norway and Japan suck too. F those murderers.

I was in Zambia when they printed the 100 Trillion Dollar notes. My river guide gave me a couple as a souvenir.

The Rand will be similar in a few years.

Zimbabwe went down the toilet quickly, and SA is quickly following. Whites have been leaving in droves and will continue to do so. Black Africans destroy. They are lazy, tribal and corrupt.

Countries that were on my list of places to visit: Turkey, Mexico, Russia and South Africa--I would avoid all of them now like the plague.

Add Algeria, Israel, Venezuela, Colombia, Philippines, Orban's Hungary?... and I wonder how much tourism has been curtailed in the US due to Trump and his deplorables, and will that be a permanent trend?

I thought Americans had long been advised to stay out of Algeria, r119.

I didn't realize it - I guess I thought of it like Morocco, where Ab Fab did that show with the girls having so much fun with the hashish... Well, I need to get out more. Or.... not.

Id get the fuck out of dodge were I those white farmers,then in 20 years when the lands are fallow and 3/4 of the population dead from aids or starvation,Id consider going back and restarting. I try so hard not to be racist,and I certainly wasnt in my youth,but all over the world time and time again,it does seem like blacks cant function in a civilized and productive manner without descending into violence and chaos.

We should give the well endowed ones South Dakota.

I'd have more sympathy had they done this back in the 90s, when the white farmers were literally the ones oppressing them. 25 years later, and it's punishing the children for the sins of their ancestors, which has never turned out well in human history.

Not at all surprising that Russia is welcoming impoverished white farmers who hate minorities. They'll fit right in.

This is so fucked up. This shouldn't be about skin color. We all know that the land and riches should be taken away from ugly people and given to only HOT and HUNG guys no matter what their race.

R122 And the same is said about white people too. White people have historically always been greedy,brutal, vicious, and used fear to control people.

And it hasn't changed.

I'm not racist either. But I happen to have really strong unsavory opinions about a lot of white folks. After all they gave us Trump! When there was no reason for it. But then again whites have given humanity a lot we could've done without throughout human history.

So just remember, whites are not only just uncivilized but they're also the architects of violence and chaos. You're words!

You can't miss treat people and think things are going to be fine. That's not the way human nature works. There's a price for miss treating people in this world. Especially when it's not warranted.

That's the whole point of "the sins of the father." Later generations will have to pay for what the instigators started. I don't agree with it but when you sow bad seeds someone has to pay for it. And that price is always high.

Why is this topic on a gay board?

Racebaiting is tired.

You fools gave it 125 posts.

[Quote]I was in Zambia when they printed the 100 Trillion Dollar notes. My river guide gave me a couple as a souvenir.

Please stop confusing Zambia with Zimbabwe or Zaire. Totally different country.

It would be helpful to hear from an actual resident of South Africa on this thread.

What about Nambia? Shit hole?

Whenever countries gained so called independence, the descendants of europeans played a great part in the negotiations to ensure they received all the benefits. In certain cases the existing hierarchies remained. In a country with 95% of blacks, whites control a disproportionate amount of land and resources. What did you all expect? England also made sure to draw borders in a estrategic way as to cause unrest tough they acted as if they were deeply concerned of the future of these lands. Divide and conquer, they left such a mess that countries didn’t stand a chance.

why are idiots like R117 allowed to post and not banned immediately?

It's starting.

People have been appropriating land from other people for as long as there have been people.

As for countries - go back far enough and there was only 1 large land mass, so that argument is meaningless.

In cave man days, the people on the north side of the mountain wanted the cave on the south side - more sunlight and a better view.

Or the group with the biggest, toughest warriors got the best place.

Or maybe it was the most beautiful ones who got the best.

Or the most fertile people, the best hunters, the guy who knew the secret of fire, or used the first wheel, etc. etc.

It's always been something.

Such interesting times we are living through.

They're killing "evil Honkies", so everyone has to turn a blind eye or be labeled "racist".

Western countries will again have to accept a new onslaught of refugees of starving white farmers and black rioters after the economic downfall.

I really blame these uprisings on Social Media, western thinking and Reality TV being distributed throughout the undeveloped 3rd world. The impoverished want to be a Kardashian or a Rapper nowadays. People want quick come-ups now. Communities are perfectly capable of developing their own economies, but the in-fighting that always develops is just turning outward and destroying everything.

Lets be honest, the entire continent is a shit hole, and it was created that way after 94. Corruption, no education, thrusting democracy onto people who didn't understand. We call white people raciest, well the entire black population of Africa is racist, and murderous. Aids infects at least half, South Africa only loves the white sportspeople, and will murder you for your shoes. If it wasn't around no one would care, and countries are waiting for it to fail to move in.

Too bad, though, because it was one of the most beautiful countries I ever saw with some of the most beautiful (tall Dutch/British mix) people I ever saw too. Had a lot of friends there. And it was fun seeing change and hope at the time.

As someone once said, 'You can feel God in the air there." As opposed to L.A., where I lived at the time and which had NO God. The city that God forgot.

I am very progressive and color-blind on race relations. Yet, even I knew the end apartheid was the end of S. Africa as an advanced nation. Several posters here have explained it very well.

1) Uneducated blacks suddenly put in positions they were unqualified for.

2) Huge income inequality and the crime rate that comes with it.

2) Organized crime taking over the economy. DeBeers is still around, but no reputable mining co. will seriously consider mining jewels right now because the corruption associated w/it.

3) The spread of AIDs.

4) Tribal conflict among the blacks. Genocide would not be a surprising outcome.

One only needed to see the sad fate of other sub-Saharan African countries to know this. There are no easy solutions. So question is: Why should this matter to us? The world is full of problems, we got many of our own. B/c S. Africa is home to countless strategic minerals including uranium. Moreover, the country at one point had nuclear weapons (these were destroyed in the 1990s, along w/Ukraine's for example). Do we really want a transnational crime organization to have nuclear weapons or even fissional material?

The S. African situation is serious.

Why post this on DL? Well, stoking fears of a "race war" is a huge thing to Trump.

R128

Zambia and Zimbabwe share a border on the Zambezi river, dotard. My guide was from Zimbabwe, working in (The) Zambia.

R133

Civilization requires something more.

If these people want to steal the land, let them reap what they sow.

African politicians (and the populations under their control) know nothing of functioning civilzation. The Chinese, Indians/Pakistanis, and Arabs will be their colonial masters in 50 years.

Is there any majority black city,state,country that ISNT a shithole? Has there ever been? Im not being racist,Im genuinely curious.

China will impose order soon. The entire continent.

R145

Not really.

IQ disparity is too controversial to be discussed (even though the Igbo of Nigeria are up there with Ashkenazi Jews on the scale) so the failures will be blamed solely on colonialism.

India has a similar problem. A local businessman described it thusly – “the British gave the Indians two things, the interstate highway system and the bureaucracy, and they worship both equally”.

Wait a second...

According to the article in R132, they're only talking about expropriating land from farms that are larger than *25,000 acres*. That's a hell of a lot of land.

For perspective, the average "very large" farm in the United States is just 2,086 acres.

Will the SA farmers and agricultural production really suffer all that much if that's truly the scope of the land reform? Frankly this seems more symbolic than anything, like the ANC tossing a bone to its dwindling number of constituents.

R148

Small farms are not capable of providing the calories necessary at an affordable price point. Cheap food requires industrial farming techniques.

The bureaucrats that will be tasked with running these farms have zero experience. They will have a difficult time attempting to balance the cost of inputs and the final product price, since government edict will create rules that inadvertently reduce infrastructure investment for the sake of current production.

In just a few years they will have an enormous amount of capital equipment that is unworkable because maintenance was neglected. Crop yields will plummet. People will starve.

R140, people won't starve because the government will borrow money from China on interesting terms...

[QUOTE]The proverbial chickens are coming home to roost

Always despised that line. You can always tell who uses it.

There are a lot of beautiful Boer men and some of the are gay. Who'll take in the hot gay Boer men who want out of there?

R145: Botswana, which is largely tribally homogeneous.

I've never understood why the white folks of SA didn't leave once the blacks took over. It's not about being against a black government it's about knowing their will be attempted payback and why put your family thru that?

I expect great progress from these people.

Mmmmm sounds tempting r152.

^^^^^Although it might be preferable if he tries to get rid of his South African accent, I find it a little grating on the nerves after listening to them a while. Went to a white South African dentist briefly who emigrated to the US before most of the shit hit the fan, my insurance changed at work and he was no longer on the dentist list so I had to leave him. But he was OK while it lasted.

R145 I believe Ethiopia ( which wasn't colonized) and Botswana ( which was just a protectorate) are doing compartitively well.

Those niggas iz gonna starve. People who know nothing about farming running huge farms. Nope. This happened in Zimbabwe and it's a fucking mess. Now it's going to happen in RSA. Good news is that after all the blacks starve to death, the whites can move back in and MRSAGA.

I live here and I don't know what most you are going on about. Granted I live in Durban, and am not black OR white but the political party (EFF) that is pushing for the land appropriation is not in power (yet). The ANC has jumped onto that bandwagon because they fear that they will lose ground to the EFF in the election next year. Now, if the EFF do well in next year's election, maybe I will be a little worried. But not right now.

I also don't get the shithole comments - yes there are rural areas in this country but our cities and suburbs are pretty modern. We don't live in the bush with wild animals all around.

Let's Give It Back ..............

r13's history is the Afrikaner revisionist version that tried to make like the Boers found empty, barren, uninhabited land when they landed in South Africa which has been laughed off and discredited. Portuguese explorer Bartolomeu Dias documented encountering and being welcomed by African tribes during his voyage in 1488 and when the Dutch first landed in 1652, they encountered the Khoikhoi people already established there for centuries. But because it's convenient for white colonisers to divide and rule everywhere they go in the world, they started distinguishing and separating the Khoikhoi from other black mainly bantu tribes for their convenience and went on to decimate the Khoikhoi through mass massacres and displacements then proceeding to claim the land for themselves. Typical pattern for white colonialism in Africa.

South Africa is as much a white homeland as much as Europe belongs to African migrants. No one believes they are no matter what they say. And yes, the chickens have come home to roost. Julius Malema is being pushed to power by an increasingly dissatisfied and deprived black majority who've had it with Nelson Mandela's reconciliatory policies. Like all major revolutions through history, this is an unstoppable force.

R162 I agree on all points but its hard to be objective about the situation when Julius Malema is going to murder your family to achieve his revolution.

Starve black people and detonate the country, that'll show white people.

Thank you R160, finally a post from someone who ACTUALLY LIVES IN South Africa.

[quote]Zambia and Zimbabwe share a border on the Zambezi river, dotard. My guide was from Zimbabwe, working in (The) Zambia.

I'm well aware of the location of the Zambia relative to Zimbabwe, R142. However based on your original post you either had a poor understanding of geography or are remarkably inarticulate (I guess it's the latter).

Sounds like you're the one rewriting history, R162. R13 had it correct.

[quote] I try so hard not to be racist,and I certainly wasnt in my youth,but all over the world time and time again,it does seem like blacks cant function in a civilized and productive manner without descending into violence and chaos.

Try harder. You do know the colonizers in Africa actively and systematically destroyed the cultures and governmental/societal systems they found so they could divide, conquer, and control, just like they did in the Americas and Australia/New Zealand. People don't magically recover from that because someone signs a piece of paper that gives them rights hundreds of years later. The systems that were designed to keep the indigenous masses uneducated and with no access to political and economic power worked, and their effects linger. Think of an abused child, just because you survive and grow up and cut off ties to your family doesn't mean the trauma goes away and you are whole - ever. The whole continent suffers from PTSD because of what the colonizers did for gold, land, slaves, and power.

Ramaphosa plans to expropriate all white lands without compensation. The Boers, who have been in SA for 400 yrs, needs to arm themselves to the teeth & fight back.

Strangely enough, almost ZERO coverage on this story in the American MSM. Can't imagine why.

Great.

I actually pity Ramaphosa having to deal with this crazy cunt.

When your family has farmed a bit of land for 7 or 8 generations, you were born in a country, grew up there,worked your whole life on that property, you know no other way of life. Why should any government take your land? We're talking about people who've lived there longer than America has been America. Their culture is firmly ingraned in African soil. Say what you like about colonialism, those people will defend their hones and there will probably be a civil war.

R127 Are gays not supposed to have political opinions? are there no gay South Africans?

They'll take the land and then have a tribal war over who gets it. Because Malema hates Zulus. Meanwhile the farms will be unproductive and thousands of Black South Africans will loose their jobs in food production. Fucking the economy further.

Loving the Americans thinking this is a progressive step. You really are ignorant about other countries.

The whole ethnic situation of the whites over there is complicated. The original settlers were Dutch, with a large influx of Germans thrown into the mix. And the whole point of the colony in the first place was as a resupply post for Dutch trading ships. However, later on the VOC (the Dutch East Indies company) allowed more settlers to expand outwards and enlarge the colony. It was only in the latter half of the 17th century that the Huguenots came to the Cape in large numbers.

Basically the core ethnicity of the Boers is Dutch, German and French Huguenots. The British and other white settlers only came later, and have always had less ties to the country than the Boers.

R173

I wouldn't say the later settlers have less of a psychological tie to the country. I'm an English speaking South African if Scottish/English decent. They came here in the 1800s.

Some of The Afrikaners ( particularly of my parents generation) have a more nationalistic bent ( that excludes non Afrikaners, particularly English speakers, that dates back to the Boer War.)

But we don't love our country any less than they do. We don't feel less South African than them. Does an Ameruvan whose DNA came over on the Mayflower feel more of a tie to the country than one who is descended from Irish immigranra from the 1800s?

One of the things that I love about my country is its multi ethnic identity ( we have 11 national languages).

I love the tenacity and bravery of the African people. So many have been through so much and its only served to build their character. In a way the dark times we're living in has shown me just how brave and amazing they can be. Especially the kids. I'm a teacher and I actually have hope for our future. The children I teach are so mature and wise and actually willing to practice courage and forgiveness in a way I've never seen before. 9 or 10 year old kids dealing, with grace and dignity, with the kind of adversity that would kill many adults. If this is the generation growing to oppose the hatemongers then there is reason to hope.

R144 true

*American*

Damn autocorrect.

This was coming. The whole Nelson Mandela saves SA was a load of crap. He had been in jail for decades, had no current political or social knowledge when he was released but was so desperate to be the first black president he brokered a deal with the whites that left them with all the economic power in SA and he let them go after and vilify the blacks who fought for his release and wanted some socialist measures put in place to help and relieve the crushing poverty, including education. It was all a damn farce. The blacks never got educated, the poverty got worse, AIDS got worse. It is all a poverty culture now for most blacks because the SA whites wanted to hang on to their money and Nelson wanted to be president. The whites have sucked everything they could from SA.

I actually feel sorry for the Boers. They’ve lived there for hundreds of years and have a right to call S. Africa their home. However, due to apartheid and passed hatreds it’s only a matter of time before they’re exiled, ethnically cleansed, or forced to flee for their lives.

Nelson Mandela was like a bandaid on a gushing pipe. It was never gonna last. Whatever side you're on, a system where a tiny minority own almost all of the land and wealth cannot survive. The masses will revolt. It happened in France, it happened in Russia and will happen in South Africa.

[quote]I actually feel sorry for the Boers. They’ve lived there for hundreds of years and have a right to call S. Africa their home. However, due to apartheid and passed hatreds it’s only a matter of time before they’re exiled, ethnically cleansed, or forced to flee for their lives.

The problem is they weren't the most gracious of rulers. There's little goodwill from the black majority.

Thanks, R160, loved Durban. Loved Margate even more (where I worked on a movie in the late '80s). Gorgeous country.

R179: The reason why South Africa still has an economy in the first place is due to the white minority. If the the blacks had got their hands on it back when Mandela first took over the country, then it would be even more of a basket case than it is now.

People might hate to admit this, but the reason the majority of Africa is a complete shithole is due to the corrupt and incompetent native rulers. Only so much can be blamed on white colonialism. Even people in Zimbabwe have admitted that life was better under the Smith government.

The problem is that the colonial structures that kept the majority oppressed ( like the deliberate under-education of blacks) can only be fixed through decades of work. A revolution happens overnight.

Its a bit like when the caste system fell apart in India. No doubt it was terrible and unfair, and had to change, but the change that necessitated 20+ years of slow, systemic changes happened overnight and now you have a bunch of people with no idea how to run things and no infrastructure.

Baring in mind it was always shit to be black in SA, the township's poverty has just spread to other demographics now.

R182. Link please to black people begging for return of white rule. That would be like black American nostalgia for slavery days. Never going to happen. And what good is an economy that works only for white people? Chickens are coming home to roost.

It’s not the same thing, r184. The economy under Smith was well run. There’s was abundant food, and the hospitals and schools were some of the best in Africa. The blacks were treated as second class, but things became so bad under Mugabe that people actually preferred Smith.

At least under him they didn’t go hungry. And Mugabe has been far more brutal to his own people than Smith ever was.

R184 white Zimbabwean colonialists were shitheads but they were never as cruel as Americans. Given how badly Mugabe fucked the country ( war, famine, mass incarceration, total dictatorship, slavery, AIDS) I'm not surprised some are looking back and wondering. Especially since the famine was caused by the expulsion of white farmers.

Julius Malema is basically doing for blacks in south africa what trump is doing for whites in america.

But expect trump is completely unwarranted and Malema is absolutely necessary.

White SA have truly dug a hole for themselves and it's completely of they're own doing.

I don't feel bad for them. White people always expect for blacks to just forgive them let the past go. And just move on as if nothing ever happened.

FUCK THAT!!!!!!

Sometimes you have to take a hard stance fight back and be as vicious and brutal as the white masters. It's all learned behavior from the white masters.

No one is ever going to forget a damn thing. How can you? That's pure fantasy. Rather it's in America or South Africa. That past is always near.

R184 - “only working for whites”? That’s debatable. The point is that now the economy works for no one - except a corrupt ruling clique bribed by Chinese resource strippers. The stupidity and venality of the Western Left is beyond comprehension. They’ll rationalize any excuse just to explain that non-whites are equally intelligent and capable.

R187. Serious question. I'm assuming you aren't Native American? If the former predominant tribe that lived in your area 200 years ago seized your home and kicked you out ( with no compensation for you) leaving you homeless. And/or ( as is often the case with Malema's supporters) killed your family. Would you consider it fair and just? Because that's the equivalent.

It is, in my opinion, just and right that the Native Americans get their pre- trail of tears land back. And no doubt the white Americans did bring it on themselves through genocide and revenge is warranted. But its not that simple is it?

And he's nothing like Trump, he's a populist, yes but Trump is a moderate compared to him. He also won't stop with Afrikaners, or even whites, he is Mopedi and they have long standing issue with other tribes. Including over who the disputed land belongs to. Do you think they'll devide it fairly? Or will there be more killing?

What people fail to understand is why white colonisation was always doomed to fail in Africa from the start. The natives have always completely outnumbered the white settlers, and, unlike the native Americans, were immune to the same diseases as the europeans. They were never wiped out through disease or genocide. And unlike Australia or New Zealand, Africa wasn’t barely occupied by small groups of hunter gatherers.

And it wasn’t through lack of trying either. The TrekBoers especially tried to wipe out some of the native groups that they encountered during their migration into the interior. However, without the aid of the mass die off that killed up to ninety percent of native Americans they just couldn’t kill enough of them.

That’s why white colonisation never succeeded in Africa, India and the Far East.

I guess instead of working for the whites they're all working for the Chinese and Nigerian Mafia now. Indirectly.

R190 I was under this impression that the Germans weren't so bad in Africa. Turns out they killed a million Namibian people pre WW1 and used them in medical experiments. Almost made their tribe extinct.

Still not a patch on the Belgians. Of all colonialists they have to have been the worst.

R192: The Germans were ruthless. However, they didn’t really get involved in colonisation until a much later period. It was the Dutch and the Brits who were the main players in Africa. And you’re right about the Belgians, they were brutal in how they ran their colony.

R189, good point. African inter-tribal and civil conflicts are BRUTAL. Neverending massacre upon massacre. Angola wars III and IV, Northern Uganda, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Congo, Rwanda, yikes! And before you blame the colonials, these conflicts were decades after independence. If I were white, I’d get the fuck out now. Better to live in some trailer park in Australia or Argentina than that impending horror.

I Agree R194 but Rwanda can partially be blamed on the Belgians. They actively divided the tribes against one another.

R194: The big problem for many of the white landowners in particular, is the proscription on many of the large commercial farms. The white farmers couldn’t sell the land for what it was really worth. That’s why so many of them ended up staying, despite the deteriorating situation. However, now it might be too late for anything.

It’s been rumoured for years that the farm murders are being organised and are not just violent home invasions. The terror a lot of these farmers have gone through is terrible, with entire families being raped and killed. The reality of the situation is that they should have taken what they could get and got the hell out of there.

This thread is getting too bleak. Let's take a brief turn and check out this show!

R181, do tell us more about the movie you worked on!

In true DL style, may I offer the motion picture "The Comedians" as a foretaste of what is to come in South Africa? The expropriation will fail, as it always does; the diaspora of whites will be followed by catastrophe for the country. A tragedy all around.

R194, yes it was all the Belgians’ fault. So all Belgians need today to pay reparations: every white Belgian family must now host at least two Congolese or Rwandan families in their place of residence. Additionally, 10% of everyone’s income must be transferred to both countries’ treasury annually into perpetuity. If Joseph Kabila or Paul Kagame’s swiss bank account grows every year by a similar amount, one must say nothing. To do otherwise makes you a goddamn racist.

R200 I never said the Belgians owed them anything. I just stated the historical FACT that they deliberately fostered discord between the Hutus and Tutsis. Without that policy the genocide wouldn't have happened.

R200 The atrocities by the Belgians were horrific. Would you like us to pretend they never happened? Perhaps we could ignore The Holocaust while we're at it.

Angry Belgian at r200

R200 You know whatbelse was racist.

Tintin in the Congo... Just sayin'.

Yep, the worst thing you could be in Africa back then was a native worker on a rubber plantation in the Belgian Congo. Entire villages would have “rubber quotas” and if they didn’t meet them, many of the tribespeople would be tortured to death.

Don't kill the messenger r200 if you're going to get angry get angry with your murderous ancestors.

Time of my life, R98, first time out of the States and it was bliss. Movie was crappy but fun and starred this great actress from "Gods Must Be Crazy", Sandra Prinsloo. A total sweetheart. Bliss being in my 20s and staying in a beachside hotel with a whole crew of people working on the movie together.

I loved South Africa and its people. Hope it survives all of this somehow.

What a clusterfuck.

R140, are you for real? It's not AIDs; it's not a plural for AID. It is A-I-D-S, because the S is part of the acronym, and it stands for Syndrome. I swear when I read this spelling of AIDs on The Datalounge that it's deliberate trolling.

R98 I loved her in The Gods Must Be Crazy. One of my all time favorite films.

Mine too especially the scene where she gets sprayed by the window washer, perfect timing. She was one of the nicest women I ever met and very talented. I wept like a baby when it was time to leave and go back to clusterfuck Los Angeles.

R206 - based on the general idiocy of the Left today, my ancestors clearly didn’t do a good enough job.

Africa is a shithole.

It really does seem as if threads such as this one are an excuse to attack people on the left.

R214, yeah, but every other thread seems to give the Left an opportunity to attack everyone else (unless they’re T or PoC).

I'm on the left of left and I can see where this could lead. The main difference between SA and Zimbabwe was that during the famine Zimbabwe had South Africa feeding them. SA won't have that security. Those South African, Racist, Afrikaner, Boer, Redneck farmers were the ones keeping Zimbabwe afloat.

Its not about left or right its about looking logically at the issues in other countries through their own cultural lenses instead of doing the typical American thing and looking at them only through your own, because you're too ignorant to do otherwise.

If Americans are happy about these land seizures I suggest moving to SA for a couple of years to celebrate. I'm sure a grateful South African will do a house swap with you.

Help is on the way!!

R217 the Afrikaaners would fit right in in Texas.

I don't know how you guys can bear to read Trump's Twitter. I can't stand to look at it, it makes me feel sick.

For the record there is no such thing as a "native american". Genetically they are undocumented immigrants from Siberia. So if you wish to argue that the whites should leave North America then you also have to argue that the "native americans" should be returned to Putin's Russia.

[quote]Africa is a shithole.

With the exception of South Africa, not one of the 53 countries in Africa is within light years of stable, functioning or flourishing. And now South Africa is degenerating into just another bit of dung in the African cesspool.

R220 I'm hoping that's satire and that you haven't suffered a debillitating brain injury or anything.

Do you think, R214? Of course it is, this was a Trump/FOX agit-prop thread all along.

r220 has never been to Africa. South Africa isn't even the most desirable country to live.

Now Trump has entered the debate you can rest assured the land expropriations will definitely happen. There's nothing Africans loathe more than a white foreigner barking orders at them. They're already using anti colonial language.

Imagine Africans as major landowners, let alone majority landowners, in Europe. Who would allow that?

Trump is basically the worst ally you can come up with if you want to negotiate with Africans.

[quote]And unlike Australia or New Zealand, Africa wasn’t barely occupied by small groups of hunter gatherers.

Why do people lump colonisation in one great mass? The New Zealand Maori were tribal and warlike (see the New Zealand wars) and had massive land battles before the British even arrived. They drove off the original settlers of New Zealand, the more peaceful Moriori.

The Maori signed a land treaty in 1840 with the British and huge amounts of assets and land are held by tribes today. If you go to Cannes you may see a yacht called 'Tuhoi' named after a tribe worth billions.

What does it matter if the people on the other side of the world are white or black? They are not your people either way. Even if wealth is seized by black South Africans, it will never reach the majority. The poor will remain poor.

Black South Africans are very pro- circumcision so they get my support.

My parents had the class to raise me not to be prejudiced against anyone for immutable characteristics such as skin color, gender, or sexuality. I have no idea what has happened to this world. People have lost their fucking minds. It's ok to be white. It's ok to be male. It's ok to be anything you were born as.

White South Africans would like you know that they are doing just fine. They don't understand why US racists are so cranked up with concern.

Sky article on the results of the monumental fuck up made by the blacks who run Zimbabwe. BTW anyone that screams racist FOAD. A spade is a spade.

This is a white nationalist, Stephen Miller, Breitbart conspiracy theory thread repeated by piece of Shit trump.

Total distortions of the actual proposal. The basis for reclaimiing unused land, marginal purpose land is sound. No one is taking “white farmers land.”

Total Bullshit. FF the OP.

OP's linked story is from "The Independent" a UK liberal newspaper, idiot R234 (or is your name Boris).