Why did Hollywood have to become obsessed with being sympathetic to The Anti-Hero?

Also, these movies came out shortly after 9/11. So even with that having happened, Hollywood could still find it in them to pull together optimism for the big screen. What's changed? Are things really so much bleaker and scarier right now than they were in 2001-2004?

Does anyone else agree?

I look at mainstream films being released in 2018 and it's horror, horror, dystopia, kid's rude flicks, crime, crime, crime. Is everyone in Hollywood really this depressed or has completely lost any hope in humanity? What's the excuse? How did they manage to scrape together some optimism during WWII?

Or the better way to put it, is if Hollywood could manage to scrape together some optimism during WWII, even if they were just putting on a happy face, why not now?

The Lord of the Rings franchise, The Spider Man franchise, Harry Potter, continuation of the Austin Powers franchise, etc. All of them contained main characters who were likable and/or trying to become morally better than what they were or hold onto some noble quality they didn't want to lose when they gained or lost power.

Where did that go?

So many Hollywood and culture power players are complaining about people becoming baser or less compassionate, when they've been working towards conditioning the public to embracing anti-heros and rejecting "the good guy" path for almost a decade now. I can't remember the last time i saw a film with a protag who represented just a genuinely good person struggling in a world that's sometimes not fair to the good guy.

It's especially noticeable on cable tv series the last 10 years or so. Used to be an unorthodox, fresh approach. Now in addition to being depressing, it's become a tiresome cliche.They're all trying to outdo each other on the "glass darkly" thing and it's started getting into the realm of unintentional humor. Makes me think of the Goth Talk sketches on SNL about 15 years ago., GoT, Divergent, Dexter, and above all, The Handmaids Tale need a frattish brother Glenn to crash the proceedings and tweak their oh-so-serious sensibilities.

R6 Agreed. The bleakness is just everywhere and it's seeping into the psyche of society. Yes, perky optimism can be mockable sometimes, even a little exhausting but it doesn't subconsciously drag you down when you're surrounded by it day in and day out. I feel like society is psychically wiped out from all this dystopia.

Things got a lot darker after the 2008 financial crisis.

OP is talking to itself.

R9 For the first couple of posts. But I was just thinking of things i wanted to add, examples.

OP also made a thread about how much it misses Paris Hilton. So it seems to be contradiction. Was The Simple Life "sunny, colorful, earnestly respectful of the goodness and struggles of..." Miss Hilton?

R11 I've made a lot of different threads. But that's another good example of Hollywood being able to laugh at itself or trudge through hard times with some fun, rather than one dystopian, bleak world after another.

R11 The point is that the character of Peter Parker is a really, nice guy who is challenged to change who he is, at his core, all of the time. I wonder if Hollywood even believes nice guys can exist, anymore.

So 10 of the first 13 posts are from OP. This isn’t a discussion, it’s a monologue.

R14 11 out of 14, now it's a discussion!

OP there are so very many movies released every year. There are feel good movies from Hollywood. Tom Holland is a good guy Spiderman, too. Maybe you can find movies more to your vibe. Also there are movies from all over the world and some of them are lovely. If you don't like dystopias, there are options.

R16 I know but the mainstream sets the cultural mood for society and the mood coming out of mainstream Hollywood has been a bummer, for quite some time now.

I hear ya OP. Shows like Sharp Objects that feature cutting, I ask myself who's the audience for this? Are there really people who find such great pleasure in watching stuff like this and are willing to pay HBO $15 a month for it?

I think this is why 80s movies and music are still popular. People love the feel good nature of it .

Why aren’t there more romantic comedy movies 😩😊😍?!??!

R19 Not romantic comedies, good guy underdogs. Not just characters that are cynical opportunists, crazed sociopaths or the deeply depressed, living in bleak, collapsing dystopias.

Maybe you just need a Benzo or a fuck.

R21 I'm not depressed but Hollywood isn't engaging anymore because they've latched onto anti-heroes as their new mainstream and are painting everything they touch with bleakness, from film to t.v.

They refuse to take on the challenge anymore of justifying being a good person, the ideal of being nice and civil. Then half of Hollywood wonders why so many people have become such unbearable jerks. Maybe it's because culture has become one giant "Swamp of Sadness", humans are naturally responding to their environment and Hollywood can take some blame for that?

R22 It's nihilism, cynicism, pessimism, horror, rinse and repeat.

I feel like the box office could point out 5 good counter examples from 2017 box office alone, but I'm too lazy and you're going to stick to your guns and talk to yourself no matter what anyone says. Really, just choose better movies for yourself.

Confirmation bias, OP. Look at what else came out around then.

Optimism is criticized as naive, unrealistic, and insular. Pessimism is empty and nihilistic.

At most, culture is a bit less pessimistic than in the 70s.

That brings nuance and insight at the cost of awareness of the sadness that's always been around us.

R24 Even marketing departments everywhere can't ignore the explosion in the general public getting news only online, becoming distrustful of mainstream sources, increasingly interested in conspiracies, paranoid about the motives of neighbors, etc.

This didn't happen by accident, it was built up over time by people getting an ominous feeling of doom and destruction coming out of mainstream entertainment and media. These entertainment industries will die if they don't start paying attention and having respect for people's legitimate desire for good. People feel like crap from these cultural influences and it's becoming obvious when you see how quick to anger and emotional meltdowns so many people are these days.

Frozen was the biggest animated movie of all time. That was 2013. The box office wasn't particularly dark that year...

R27 And who was buying those ticket? The kids? Or people looking for an excuse to bring them?

I'm not saying viewers aren't watching the bleaker movies; I'm saying they are and it's influencing people's psyches. It's shifting society into a more dystopian minded direction.

[quote]I can't remember the last time i saw a film with a protag who represented just a genuinely good person struggling in a world that's sometimes not fair to the good guy.

What about us?

2018 Domestic Grosses:

Black Panther - superhero film

Avengers: Infinity War - superhero film film & sequel

Incredibles 2 - superhero film & sequel

Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom - sequel

Deadpool 2 - superhero film & sequel

Solo: A Star Wars Story - prequel

Ant-Man and the Wasp - superhero film & sequel

A Quiet Place - Horror

Mission: Impossible - Falloutt- sequel

Hotel Transylvania 3: Summer Vacation - sequel

R30 I never said the anti-hero shift, the moral crises for good guys shift nor dystopia push wasn't selling. I said it was but that the public is getting burnt out from it and it's starting to show. And yes, I do think this will eventually lead to people just rejecting Hollywood's products, wholesale.

Staying the nice guy in an unfair world is just as important a complicated, moral challenge as those who straddle the line of ethics and morality, using others off and on and being torn by it. The problem is that the focus has been shifted to dominantly focus on the moral struggles of the anti-hero or the corrupted good guy, over the steadfast hero.

Comic book films and Star Wars killed the Movies

Horror movies are mostly torture porn

Dystopia stories hit too close to home, now

CSI type television is just one rape/serial killer/assault after another

I would rather watch Peter Parker/Steve Rogers and Thor flex across the screen than any of the above. They're 'good' guys and the films their characters are in, aren't so dark I feel sick after watching them.

R1 Something else that's interesting about these films. The character if Peter Parker is challenged to pick his battles with jerks, all of the time. In this scene, he tries everything he can to make a delivery on time and it just doesn't work out, mainly because he's making the choice to help others along the way.

The receptionist is an opportunistic jerk but she still has the right to be one: A business promise is a business promise. Like we hear in so many stories these days, the character could have lashed out and done something violent as a response or told her off, wrapped a bungee cord around her neck, whatever. Instead, He controls himself, acts polite because he is, after all, still working and leaves. Every viewer knows the receptionist is a jerk, knows his failure is an unfair failure but that's okay: He wasn't meant to have that victory. But there are better things waiting for him and he'll have his day.

You see that very rarely now in mainstream movies; a character displaying self control, being better than losing his cool over something stupid. Accepting that life isn't fair, you won't always get the appreciation you deserve for what you do but someday you'll have you day when something you worked for pays off or people appreciate what you have to offer.

Oooooh!! I have a fresh idea! Let's turn the hero/villain thing on its head!

Imagine: a villain as the film's protagonist. At heart he's a good guy, but circumstances lead him to do very bad things!

R35 It's interesting because when you look at the early 2000's "Spider Man" films, the opposite plays out. A good guy is challenged constantly, to be bad but he keeps trying to fight falling into becoming a bad or ruthless person, despite having the power to do so. Rather than promote to people some satisfaction in gaining power and be able to abuse it as an ideal, these films were about the responsibility of managing power and the value of self-control. Noble , idealistic ideas.

I know cynical people will roll their eyes but that's a special premise and a medication on the idea of civilization, itself.

R36 I meant "meditation" not medication", obviously. Though it does reference some public healing.

I was speaking to a young Millenial. She tells me she likes apocalyptic movies (think 2012, things like that). End of story.

OP should finish her Masters Thesis on “Peter Parker and the Triumph of Nietzsche” before seeing Crazy Rich Asians

It's cyclical. 70's movies were some of the bleakest, most nihilistic movies ever made. People complain about the success of Star Wars ushering in an era of blockbuster escapist films, but that didn't happen in a vacuum, it was a reaction to a glut of hopeless, ultra-depressing 70's films. There's probably going to be another shoe dropping in a few years...