On Climate Change: It's Time to Start Panicking

We crossed the tipping point a loooong time ago.

What happened to global cooling hysteria?

r2 Black man got into the White House, PoC and gays started demanding equality... so priorities changed.

what a sad troll you are R3.

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It's all so horrible.

No government is taking this seriously because they are all owned by business who tell them not to.

R2, there was no fucking hysteria. A few scientists got on the cover of one magazine with that story and it's been trotted out ever since. Even back in the 70s we knew that the world was warming.

It’s irreversible at this point, isn’t it? At least through conservative means like cutting back on emissions. It is going to take something radical, like climate engineering, to correct it.

What has lost attention is pollution and the changing ph level in the oceans. Overdevelopment. Water mining. The amount of resources one person in Canada uses to live their contented, corporate life...

Not everyone in Canada is experiencing the same life.

The population is exploding. There is too much pointless environmental exploitation.

We’re doomed. It sucks but many people just don’t care. They don’t even want to stop driving short distances. I’m 35 and I think the worst won’t start until after I’m dead but who knows.

The whole GDP "growth" model is killing the planet. This is the religion that is killing the planet.

No, I think you're young enough to see it, r12

I’ve been reading about this since at least my early 20s, in the late 80s.

It was always, if we don’t do something soon, X will happen by 2080 or 2100.

But then, as we continued to do nothing, the X became XX and the deadline moved to 2050ish.

Now, X is XXXX with 3 exclamation points and the deadline is more like 2030.

And we’re still doing nothing.

Actually, with Moron Trump in office, we’re doing worse than nothing: we’re actively contributing to the worst case scenario.

It’s horrible, and scary, and probably irreversible by now.

Yeah I was a teen in the mid 70s and we were having temperate winters in a way we didn't have when I was a child in the 60s. Those were George Washington Valley Forge winters. Brutal.

It was very unnerving by the mid 70s to see that wasn't happening in the same way any more. Certainly more comfortable but not worth it in terms of peace of mind.

I’ve lived on the west coast of Canada most of life and the summers just keep getting hotter. I remember being a kid it was rare for the temperature to get to 30 Celsius. Now we have a few weeks of it eat summer.

Have more kids, that'll help.....

We knew about it before the '70s, r8.

It's not just the greenhouse gases. For decades during the cold war, multiple nuked up countries dumped their military grade nuke waste into the oceans or on atolls which, given the leakage issues, amounted to the same thing. Mostly this dumping took place in the tropics and subtropics. Except for Russia... they threw (and may be continuing to do so) their hot radioactive trash into the Arctic Ocean under the polar ice cap. Ignorance? Convenience? Arrogance? Sure, why not. But maybe something more purposefully sinister.

Spent nuke fuel is still hot - just not hot enough to boil water to turn a steam turbine. In an already warm area of the ocean, a few more degrees of heat would likely not be critical (although the schools of three-eyed Simpson fish would still be a bit disturbing). But the Arctic Ocean actually needs to be pretty cold... or else the ice melts faster and more thoroughly... and then the albedo is affected... and then the process intensifies... and then the ocean currents are disrupted... and then the process intensifies...and then the salinization cycle is disrupted... and then the process intensifies... and the methane hydrates begin to melt and leach out into the atmosphere... and the process intensifies... and then, because the ocean currents are disrupted, the air currents become disrupted.

Our oceanic heat exchanger is on the fritz, so our atmospheric heat exchanger has had to take over. And all because Vladimir Putin wants year-round shipping channels to serve his northern ports.

Hot Stuff indeed.

Yes, we are likely doomed. And no one is really doing anything meaningful about it. The most that can be said is that we nibbling around the edges of the problem. The bottom line is that we consume too much and discard too much and no one wants to stop doing either.

The fires and the wild weather are bad enough. Just wait until major cities and regions along the coast start to flood and sink under the oceans. That's when the panic will really set in. By that time it will be too late to do anything other than attemp to manage the chaos. Actually it is likely too late now.

When do you guys think shit will start to really hit the fan?

R22 What time is it now? (I'd check my watch but I'm in northern Nevada and I can't see anything through the smoke.)

Sell your coastal real estate immediately!

I think we are over and if the rich suffer along with the poor, I am fine with it. This experiment with humans did not work out.

R24, seriously, I'm wondering what people with coastal real estate are planning.

I've been noticing some absolutely awesome homes for sale on the coast in Mass, for doable prices, and I'm wondering if it's because they've been flooding the past few years.

Last time I went to the Vineyard it was flooding over that road to Vineyard Haven, and Boston the past two years during the winter storms has been crazy.

Trump and the fact that he threw out all regulations that Obama had put in has hurt any progress that we may have made.

All of this wasteful stuff that doesn't even make people happy - driving to the mall, driving to eat junk, transportation of manufactured crap , endless pointless vacations by jet where they fight on the plane and complain. And no one is happy - they are on depressants and covered in tattoos etc. Because it is stupid and meaningless. Nuclear "tests". All destroying the planet.

Trump is killing us all.

Republicans are killing us all.

The one common theme to all GOP legislative priorities and Trump executive orders is that they ALL result in more dead Americans... and dead people around the world.

The regulations that Trump throughout were insufficient and the environmentalists and even the media said it at the time. ALL of the politicians are doing nothing.

Anyone have an idea re R22's question?

As much as I detest Trump this was happening way before him.

Like at the beginning of the industrial revolution.

Thanks for clearing that up r32.

Yes, the industrial revolution started it. In recent times, the seriousness of the problems have been known for decades.

Shit is ALREADY hitting the fan.

It's just going to get gradually worse and worse.

[quote[We’re doomed. It sucks but many people just don’t care.

I'll fix that for you R12.

[bold]MOST[/bold] people don't care. Not, as you have mistakenly written - many people don't care.

It's very unfortunate but that's how it is.

We are a short sighted adolescent species who exist in a me me me land. Most won't wake up until a threat comes knocking on their door. Our plugged in culture is leaving the young without the skills to survive any form of disruption. Tribalism will just increase with wars over water and arable land. Disease wipes out a quarter or more of the population. Everything falls apart. News flash: this isn't the first time it's happened. Fall of Rome, Collapse of the classic Maya. What's new is that this will be global in scale. Glad I'm old.

Same here, R37. When younger friends have kids I often wonder why … why would they bring someone new into this looming disaster of a world.

I'm glad I've only got 10-20 years left. I'll get out before it gets REALLY bad.

Maybe.

Things do seem to be accelerating faster than predicted or anticipated...

The scientists are really starting to panic. There is a paper going around among the scientists that is a debate about whether to warn the public about the coming (in our lifetimes) civilization collapse. They are thinking it is going to happen within the next 10 years or so. The Temps have risen to 1.5 c above baseline and fast approaching 2 c which will bring on all kinds of havoc. We are now in runaway global warming and there is no way to stop it from happening.

Do you have a link, R39?

On the top of BBC News right now:

Researchers believe we could soon cross a threshold leading to boiling hot temperatures and towering seas in the centuries to come. Even if countries succeed in meeting their CO₂ targets, we could still lurch on to this "irreversible pathway".

Yes, I do have an idea. But it was ignored and debased the whole time I told people. I also had an idea how to stop it, but no one was listening.

We had a shot in the 70's. We have 20 years, tops. Watch the Arctic ice coverage. If it ever ices out in the summer, we're done for. There is also the methane threat, increasing warming by a factor of 3, and the fact that we are in a LA NINA year....when it should be cooler and wetter. Fuck all to hell when it switches over. Right now the worst of the warming is in the oceans. It's only going to get worse.

I know this because I have a partner who works for an environmental news service....one of the few left because of the massive defunding that MSM has perpetrated around reporting this issue and because people kill the messenger everywhere.

Five years. Head north, near reliable water supplies. This could change anywhere, at any time.

I have my suicide plans in place, but one scientist I know says that it won't matter. We'll be gasping for air like landed fish when it finally comes down....provided we don't get killed in the wars for resources/water before then.

What you're seeing now, politically, are the machinations by the few to maintain control over those resources. Revolutions are the next step, and there is not one shred of coincidence in the militarization of the police in regard to that eventuality.

And, among other things, fat, bloated, selfish Americans continue to buy and drive those big-assed pickups and SUV's and throw out half of every meal.

R39, so what do the scientists themselves think about it or do about it? Buy houses in the woods? Stockpile ammo?

I just watched a really bad movie on Netflix this weekend called “How it Ends.” The basic premise is that people are just living their lives, one day all communications go out and there’s no information available. A couple of guys go on a road trip and see bombed looking cities and feel earthquakes but have no idea what’s going on because there is no communication. Society breaks down immediately because the cops and Army are trying to deal with this but they don’t know anything either, so crime goes off the charts.

I saw this and thought, the main issue here was no communication. If people knew something they could plan but they have no idea what to do next because they don’t know what’s happening.

Information is all we have to defend ourselves.

Articles that say things like "in centuries to come" don't help.

R44, if you can afford to move, get off grid and grow your own food, you may survive. Most of us will not....but we won't anyway, so why angst about it?. The best thing anyone can do in the coming days is be kind to others and live a good life full of as much happiness as you can. Enjoy what is left and don't worry about what's to come. You won't be alone when you go.

Where does one get cyanide pills?

Yeah. I don't think we have centuries left. We have decades maybe.

The problem builds on itself. It is with good reason that every prediction has shortened the length of time until disaster strikes.

At some point the living will envy the dead.

[quote]Have more kids, that'll help.....

We're doing are part!

0 questions were asked about climate change during the three 2016 presidential debates.

I remember reading about the concept of the 29th day in college, back in the early 80's. I also remember turning to my partner, and after reading the environmental news for the year in retrospect in 2000, and saying "we've reached the 29th day."

It's exponential. If a pond has 2 lily pads that double in number each day, and on the 29th day the pond is half full, what happens on the 30th day?

People were looking at the world in the wrong way. Scientists knew this and were prevented from sounding the alarm for acute problems. We missed the boat and now we're filling the pond with only one day left.

The world will survive this. Most of us will not.

People could and can do things now. I bought a Prius 15 years ago, replaced it with another Prius after a car crash in 2014, and I also have a used all electric Nissan Leaf. I use the Leaf for all local errands and commuting (limited range), the Prius mostly for trips more than 30 miles in one direction. Our power is hydroelectric with some wind power, so no carbon impact there. It's not enough to wring our hands....people have to actually make a conscious decision to do the right things. But I agree that most will continue to bury their heads in the sand until the chickens come home to roost. We are addicted to our fast-paced lifestyle, which really means hopping in the car 5 to 10 times a day to do one little errand at a time. Most people are not prepared physically or psychologically to grow some of their own food (no transportation costs or pollution), dry their clothes in the sun, do all the things that it would take to reduce carbon footprint, get the most efficient burning furnaces they can afford, etc. I think it's going to be a slow catastrophe. Canada and Alaska will be refuges for the hordes fleeing unendurable heat and floods......but it ain't gonna be pretty. I'll be old by then and someone will just shoot me to get some of the potatoes or grapes I'm already growing.

Bless their hearts, R49, for being hopeful and stupid.

Fuck their souls for putting children into this hellhole of hopelessness.

R52 I hear you. I've done all the same things. It doesn't and won't matter except to maybe give you a shot or let you drive further when you can no longer buy the gas.

I'm looking into a nice little yearling Morgan. Good for riding, pulling, working. A Morgan and some goats.

[quote]Just wait until major cities and regions along the coast start to flood and sink under the oceans. That's when the panic will really set in.

Excuse me?

Excuse me?

There won't be enough ammunition or people to man the guns, R52. Just put on a big pot of stew and dole it out. Tell them they can stick around to learn how to grow and farm before they kill you.

Provided there's anything left to grow in or for. I wish I hadn't read McCarthy's "The Road"

Best bet in my opinion is to be remote enough from cities to have a shot at surviving. It's the motorcycle gangs that will be a problem once the rioting and disease have passed and they start to move out.

No guns for us. We'll take our chances, but I'm not telling anyone where we live.

[quote]It’s irreversible at this point, isn’t it?

Yes. If we really had gotten serious in the ‘60s and ‘70s, we probably could have done something about it, but it’s far too late now.

In true DL fashion, a few posters are spinning doomsday fantasies, but it will be a slow process over the coming decades.

“The Temps have risen to 1.5 c above baseline and fast approaching 2 c which will bring on all kinds of havoc. ”

Link? Last I looked they’re up about 0.1 degree over the last century.

R46 If I grow my own stuff the garden would only get raided by angry, hungry neighbors. And hungry, angry bears who wouldn't be hibernating.

I couldn't hide a garden because drones would find it.

I couldn't freeze my grown food in the winter because no electricity and global warming.

I'd have to survive on bark for as long as possible, which would be bad for the trees which we need for oxygen.

I don't think off the grid is going to be an option.

Buh

Bye

Now

[quote]I'd have to survive on bark for as long as possible

Yes, start stocking up on bark, NOW!

Don't blame the politicians and the system - here, have some drugs

Legalizing all drugs would be good for Canada, according to Toronto Liberal MP

There's a part of me that hopes the GOP continues to steal elections and remain in charge... I don't want the Democrats and liberals taking the blame for when everything falls apart, which will be relatively soon.

Health Authorities In Toronto, Montreal Call For Drug Decriminalization

........

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R57, I'm sure the folks in Redding, CA would prefer a slower, kinder process to the fire tornadoes. It's views like yours that have downplayed this crisis for decades. Now you're calling the folks who can see reality and extrapolate the worst of human nature as 'doomsayers'

Too bad you didn't get alarmed sooner instead of dragging us 'doomsdayers' down with you. There were far too many of you and far too few of us.

You are not invited for stew.

The thing I worry about obsessively is all the species extinction of virtually every famous species you have heard of from Tigers to elephants to rhinos. Not all of it is climate but a lot will. The rest is traditional Chinese medicine and poaching. These extinctions will happen in my lifetime. I spend hrs a day doing animal volunteer work and plan to do service in Africa. It may make no difference but you can't not do it. I dread being alive to witness it.

Am I R67? I'll bring the bark appetizer and morel cake.

R68 >

R68, I've written about the disappearances for over 20 years now. I feel your pain. It's hard, and yet here we are to sing the dirges and recite the proper words....it's all worship, in the end, if you're doing it right.

LOL, bark appetizer, but do something else with the morels, R59.

I've thought about this since I saw the shit starting to happen back in the late 60's...the stew pot will be open and dispensing for everyone and anyone who makes it and until someone gets stupid and kills me to eat me. If the food runs out, I'll be saying so long and thanks for all the fish.

[quote]I spend hrs a day doing animal volunteer work and plan to do service in Africa.

What does this entail exactly?

Have you been doing it today?

[quote]I spend hrs a day doing animal volunteer work and plan to do service in Africa.

Some people are TOO GOOD for this world.

Don't mock R68, R70. I know of a woman from Britain in the Amazon RIGHT NOW who is in her 70's. She's there to document the land abuses and murders of the indigenous people by the elite landowners with the complicity of the Brazilian government. She's doing it because the environmentalists who were covering the story were tortured and murdered.

The Amazon is going fast, and with it one of the world's largest carbon sinks. The other? Our Northern forests currently being dragged down for pulp in China and pellets in Europe. You think you can stop this?

[quote]LOL, bark appetizer, but do something else with the morels, [R59]. I've thought about this since I saw the shit starting to happen back in the late 60's

Bark shit is NOT something I want to think about.

I wonder if we’d becone nocturnal if it got unbearably hot.

Screw growing vegetables and fighting people for resources in a miserable Walking Dead-like existence. I’m going to drink wine and masturbate until I’m dead.

[quote]I’m going to drink wine and masturbate until I’m dead.

What's new?

That's the spirit, R78! Lovejoy salutes you!

The article talked about "last month's" wild fires in California. What? The fires are still raging and growing, it's no where near over yet. The Mendocino fire is now the 2nd biggest in the state ever.

"Trump Accuses California Of Causing Wildfires By ‘Diverting’ Water To Pacific"

Trump is stupid and always wrong about everything.

After two years, my father has finally given in and admitted that Brexit is going to be a disaster and he really should have done some research before he voted Leave (to put things in perspective, he put more time into researching which sofa to buy). Just days later, he was rubbishing climate change because scientists "keep changing their minds, they were calling it global warming a few years ago". Some people never learn. That's the Dunning-Kruger effect for you.

James van der Beek needs to have his ass paddled good and proper.

I think it’s too late. As the earth continues to warm people will migrate north causing strife. Mother Nature will find an ugly way to lower population levels to something more sustainable.

I agree R85, but is it art? Or will it prevent global warming?

[quote]As the earth continues to warm people will migrate north causing strife.

OMG!

[quote]As the earth continues to warm people will migrate north causing strife.

Have you been reading the weather threads on DL this summer? - even Norway's been like Dante's Inferno this summer.

and this map is from MAY!

Order lots of fentanyl patches online (before the internets melt) so you have a readily available means of suicide.

R22, I've been reading about the forecast for the next two decades (I am the OP of the thread linked below, which died very early, but I did my reading so oh well). It seems the changes become more and more obvious from...well, now, to the early 2030s. Oddly enough, no one seems to be forecasting world war and the collapse of society - rather, that humanity turns it's energy towards green technology and towards holding their governments and financial structures accountable. Of course, there is plenty of misery to go around, there will be mass movement of climate refugees, many cities will be unlivable, and wars will still happen. But the madness of the last century (and the beginning of this one) won't repeat itself. I don't know, but I guess I will be hopeful on that front.

R75, I tried to save the amazon rainforest in the 1990's. I guess no one listened.

I don’t know by so many people have to be such pieces of shit. I’m sad for the good people and the animals that will die but overall humanity does not deserve a second chance and I’m glad they’ll be gone soon. As a whole we are an evil species.

Why can't we just reverse all the air conditioners and pump the cold air outside?

Why isn't something like this done on a larger scale? Yes it is nowhere as good as an untouched biome, but it is doable with physical labor and someone with know how directing and teaching the locals. It can provide economic opportunity to many people (reducing migration) and there are the benefits of fresh water and green cover with reduced erosion.

So why isn't everyone on top of this, am I missing something?

Sorry, should have put this up first as it explains the principles behind the regreening and how it's done.

Sorry again, bad link. Fixed it.

On a more practical level for us in North America - what if we petitioned our local governments to change bylaws regarding lawns? Imagine if we replaced them with local flora, which is hardier and can be used for food by bees/insects/humans? What about ensuring there's a local composting program?

[quote] On a more practical level for us in North America - what if we petitioned our local governments to change bylaws regarding lawns? Imagine if we replaced them with local flora, which is hardier and can be used for food by bees/insects/humans?

sounds good for suburbia. I believe some urban jurisdictions with many flat roofed residential buildings are encouraging green roofs, that is, growing natural grasses and other native plants on the roof. Apparently if it's done right, it helps with heating and cooling but it feels like they'd be competing for space with solar panels. Of course older buildings are more difficult to retrofit but infill buildings could be better at integrating the two from the ground up.

Increasing the population density of urban areas is always a good idea if public transit is part of the plan.

I could go on, but it all comes down to living with less square footage in our homes and on our lots. And learning to live with public transit for the daily commute, and few North American cities are well designed for that.

Blame is a stupid game at this point, R98, but if you want to point the finger at the lack of well designed public transit, look to your petrol industry assholes and their shills in DC. They STILL run the fucking show. They've torn up a lot of rail in the last 50 years and all thanks to them.

Actually our city is paying people a bonus on their utility bills if they will take out lawn and replace it with native species or xeriscaping. I live in a semi-arid climate, and the lawns here look as though we live in Ireland. There is a native Ponderosa pine biome here which is very attractive and not hard to maintain. Tall, 100 foot pines, bark on the ground instead of lawns, some native shrubs, like oregon grape, and mock orange, and people could get away with watering their landscapes like 3-4 times during our bone-dry summers. I think people send in pictures of the changes they make, and the city will rebate $500 in utility bills.

R99 I live near Motown and I thought it was the car companies that started it.

R100 that's great! It should be encouraged elsewhere, certainly in the American southwest and southern California. If the foliage isn't overgrown and there are no poisonous snakes around I can't see the downside except for aesthetics. There are more important concerns than that at the moment.

The terrible thing is that talking about population control is still such an unthinkable taboo everywhere. I am not saying just have two kids, I am saying have none. Between crackpot religious beliefs and human narcissism, this is somehow not on the agenda. Even gays are breeding now. Older women are using all this insane reproductive tech well into their forties. Few want to adopt from third world...everyone wants to shit out their own kid.

From the OP's article. How effective has litigation been as a strategy so far? I'd think not very, given that one side has armies of lawyers and the public doesnt...

[Quote] He also rejected the idea promoted by many on the left that a lasting solution to global warming is impossible under a free-market capitalist economic system.

"I’m unconvinced that is true," Mann explained. "In the past, market mechanisms for pricing environmental externalities have worked. We acted on acid rain and ozone depletion within a market economy framework. The real problem, in my view, isn’t the nature of our economic system, it’s the way that special interests and plutocrats have blocked the sort of common-sense market approaches to dealing with environmental problems that were once supported by democrats and republicans alike. The problem is the moral and ethical rot that now lies at the very center of the republican establishment, the lack of good faith and the total sellout to special interests and plutocrats."

Human beings are, in general, just terrible.

I don't care anymore. Humanity will end itself and that's for the best. The universe is better off without us.

I think people still care. I know I do but when the elected officials no longer care it’s a sad state of affairs.

Unfortunately, if we do off ourselves we're very likely to take most of the biosphere with us. A few years back a scientist extrapolated that we'd likely end up with a world of grass, some birds, a few snakes, and maybe a tree species or two. That's not much of an ecosystem, and that's even assuming anything survives our destruction.

I'm expecting Venus 2.0 myself.

I agree with reply 39. Ive noticed the climate scientists are starting to panic. Not a good sign. Its too late. We ve baked too much c02 in the atmosphere. Trump is doing everything he can do to hasten our demise but to be fair, for 8 years Obama didnt do anything of any real meaing or magnitute to slow the inevitable. But it was probably too late before he even came along. The problem is our society. We are hooked on fossil fuels and there arent any alternatives that can scale up to the lifestyle most developed countries have. Its impossible to go back to a pre industial way of life and it has been for the last 100 years, and its too late anyway. I think the mistake the climate scientists have made is they have based their predictions on the way the past has behaved thinking temps would rise incrementally and we still had the rest of the century to figure it out. But it appears all but inevitable that the feedback loop will do us in and speed things up enormously. Best case scenerio is we have maybe to 2030. One major problem looming is there are 450 nuclear reactors running power plants world wide and they need huge amts of continual cooling /water.................they will fail and you have to add runaway nuclear plants to the mix towards the end. Its going to be awful. Feel free to totally disagree,you will sleep better at nite.

[quote]but to be fair, for 8 years Obama didnt do anything of any real meaing or magnitute to slow the inevitable

Bullshit. He actually did as much as he could, given he was facing unprecidented obstruction from the GOP Congress.

Don't EVEN try to lay this on Obama. The "cash for clunkers" program alone not only helped get the economy out of a rut, it removed a ton of polluting and inefficient cars from the roads. He pushed higher efficiency for cars, renewable energy at every turn... yet there's only so much he could do without any cooperation from Congress.

Preaching the truth R104

Human has always chosen short term advantage over long term survival. Now technology has reached the point where where we are causing massive disruptions in the biosphere. This story has always been inevitable. I am ready to die, but I think that I will enjoy my life and long as I can. But be prepared to commit suicide, and kill everyone that I love when things get too bad.

Jesus! That's dark R111.

But I grieve for all the lifeforms who have an intelligence we are only beginning to appreciate. They didn't ask for this bullshit.

[quote] I am ready to die, but I think that I will enjoy my life and long as I can.

Masturbation and white wine?

Crazy as it sounds I can tell there is major climate control going on in the environment. The trees located around my house used to thrive according to the four seasons. Since mid July the leaves and other tree debris have been falling from the trees as if we were in full time fall. There hasn’t been a day all summer something wasn’t falling from the trees. I never realized hoe dirty trees were. I live in the east in the states. Never used to be like this.

Anyone know where I can read credible info about climate change that outlines these Doomsday scenarios? I mean scientific sources

I walked through a park in London yesterday and it was covered with leaves - August 6th.

I don’t think this is a human made problem. I think this is humanity experiencing the end of a natural cycle. We are nothing in the face of nature and we have expected the earth to be frozen in time in a state to our advantage and to never change. If anything, we are fleas to be discarded.

[quote]I don’t think this is a human made problem.

Then you're an ignorant idiot as all the evidence shows that it is.

[quote] I think this is humanity experiencing the end of a natural cycle.

Nope. There's nothing "natural" about it.

Maybe read something and educate yourself before you embarrass yourself further by saying stupid shit.

Overpopulation is the cause of the Earth's misfortune. The rest are merely symptoms.

I know I could have done A LOT more for the planet and humanity than I did during my lifetime, but at least I can take a little bit of pride / satisfaction in never having replicated myself.

Back when I was doing psychic work, I was shown the core of the earth is heating up and the heat was rising to the surface and also a large bulge is the core has occurred caused by an outside force pulling from a distance.

*in the core

I also have a large bulge rising to the surface. Time to get on Grindr!

R121 … just … no.

I was shown humans come and go from the earth. We live and we die off, then we return. But each time our DNA becomes more corrupted and we come back with less capabilities than what we had before.

Do you know how many times the earth has gone through periods of global hothouse warming and ice ages through its bazillion year history? Leave it to humans to assume THEY are responsible for it and that THEY should do something about it. Honey, the earth got along without you all for a looooooong time before you ever made an appearance on the scene, and will continue to do so when you're fertilizing the planet.

We knew we were doomed four years ago. This is a scene from the HBO show "Newsroom":

I think the shit has actually hit the fan after this summer in Europe and the California wildfires.

Climate change is an opportunity for massive social change as well. The democratization of energy for one. Communities will generate their own energy through solar, wind, and geothermal sources rather than generate profits for the private sector. People will return to local living - you will live and work within a very small radius and many (if not most) of your goods will be locally sourced. You will see communities become more dense and urban, but they will emphasize walkability and public versus private spaces. Despite all of the naysayers on DL, you will see many people turn to a plant based diet as consumer goods such as meat will become carbon priced. There is the potential here to reinvigorate communities, make people healthier, and end animal cruelty.

We will be moving back to a “primitive time,” to a point before the machine came in. Not sure exactly what what this means but it’s what I was told. Not all knowledge will be lost, but most will be.

R129, unfortunately we're seeing the exact opposite, as fascism and authoritarianism are rising throughout the world, including here in the USA.

We're already seeing mass migrations (most don't seem to realize the entire Syrian conflict has climate change as a root cause). We're already seeing record high temperatures set EVERY YEAR, the biggest wild fires on record, massive droughts, massive flooding, massive storms...

It's only going to get worse, and since nobody is doing anything to cut back our emissions, and nobody is taking any steps to mitigate the effects (like massive investments in sea-walls, moving populations out of low-lying areas soon to be underwater, strengthening building codes to withstand higher winds and worse storms, improving drainage, securing new sources of fresh water and distribution, hardening our energy grid, etc.), it's inevitable that at some point society will break down and collapse under the new stresses that we all see, but which we're all ignoring.

Civil wars will flare up everywhere, including here... and a world-wide war will break out for resources, especially fresh water, and because of mass migrations. The scales are already tipped. The fuse is lit. The only question is when everything explodes.

Seriously, watch the video at R127. It's only four minutes. And it's accurate as hell.

The scientists are telling the truth, and the media -- and the population -- just don't want to hear it.

R131, I believe there will be a period of upheaval but there is a lot of potential for positive change as well.

There really isn't.

But I appreciate your tireless optimism.

Imagine if we'd started 50 years ago.

Imagine if we hadn't let scientific fact become partisan.

Imagine if we hadn't allowed corporations, whose only long-term care is the next quarter's numbers, to take control of everything.

The human race may survive in some form, but human civilization will not.

They're forecasting parts of the middle east will become uninhabitable within decades.

The positive is found in how you react to what you cannot control and by choosing to treat, despite the chaos, all with kindness, respect, and love. Because we all die and all eventually reaches a down in the cycle, and what is left and holds meaning is the love you give away.

Jesus. I am only to R56, but I swear to god you guys sound exactly like that TV kook evangelist Jim Bakker. He has been preaching that the end days are coming and everyone needs to get out of the cities, get off the grid, grow vegetables and such while buying all his freeze dried food.

He talks about how to handle the starving who approach your farm and want to kill you for your shit. He even is selling these little pod homes in the Ozarks which will be enclosed with armed guards who will shoot to kill anyone who attempts to get in.

Does this mean that he isn't as crazy and greedy as we thought? Does he have a point? I don't think so, but I read recently that 2 Federal judges have bought pod homes in his compound, so that got me thinking.

The problem for me is that I would prefer to die alone than live in a walled compound with a bunch of Jeebus freaks.

The developed nations of the earth are losing population, not gaining population. If not for immigration, the US would be losing population too. The developing nations are just about pulling to zero population growth. It is the third world nations, which have such terrible social and economic problems that are increasing rapidly in population. Medical advances are helping people there live longer, but the people of those nations haven't made the connection that people in the developed nations have, which is that economic security in old age means you don't have to have 5-10 children to act as your social security. However, in regards to carbon footprint, it is the people of the developed nations which have by far the biggest negative impact on the planet. The cars we drive, the way we cook and heat our buildings, the amount of electricity we use - all are adding billions of tons of carbon to the atmosphere every year. People who live subsistence lives in tropical lands hardly have any carbon footprint. They don't drive, they go to bed when the sun sets, they don't have TVs and appliances, they don't heat or cool their houses. But, yes, it's clear in hindsight, that the carrying capacity of the earth for humans leading the kinds of lives we lead is more like 3 or 4 billion, not 7 or 9 billion, and we have created an appetite in the third world to try to achieve our wasteful lifestyles.

R52, I dry my clothes in the sun every time I get the chance! What is wrong with people??

Another fire broke out in CA this morning - Worst Ever - Mendocino. This is tied to climate change.

There's already a thread on it.

And The Seasons Shall Become One.

R139, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

He's right, but for all the wrong reasons. And only right about one little thing, while being wrong about everything else.

Bakker is just ginning up fear to sell his over-priced buckets of bunker chow.

The guardian isn’t alarmist.

The Road seemed like a distant future in 2006 or 2009. Not so much now.

r140 That "zero population growth" is bullshit spewed by corporations who do not want the population to go down. The worlds population keeps rising every year. It would be wonderful if we lost half the population of the united states. The quality of living would go up for everyone. Of course that means less people to buy products and this makes the financial sector very nervous because they cannot think of a world where their profits do not increase every year. "zero population growth" used to be a movement to try to curb the human population but it seems to have been co-opted.

R147, the road was nuclear holocaust.

R148, population tends or decline when populations have better educated women. We see Brazil, as an example, having generations of growth and now it slows to nothing. . Countries like Japan and Italy are shrinking. Poorest ones though are growing a lot and tha5has to do with Ill-educated women.

I just hate the way the media fear mongers over the population going down. It is not a bad thing. Especially when you consider how most jobs will become automated in the future.

It doesn't matter what starts it, R149. It's the consequences we have to live with.

What happened with the hole in the ozone layer? We were supposed to be fried by now.

here you go r153

R153, governments worked together to adopt regulations that reduced the use of ozone-depleting chemicals.

As for Ozone, not just what R155 wrote, but...

We stopped using Chlorofluorocarbons for aerosol cans and air conditioners. Those chemicals are an Ozone destroyer. It’s worked! The hole is shrinking.

We also changed to “clean coal” to reduce acid rain that was destroying buildings built from limestone and poisoning lakes.

We also deleaded gasoline when it was shown to be a poison.

There’s one more big one, where society changed substantially, despite the considerable cost, since it was necessary. I can’t recall.

I want to caulk a window but the caulk won’t harden because it’s too darn hot!

All construction and building will be halted or stumped by rising temperatures

[bold]Earth history in 24 hours[/bold]

Using a 24 hour clock modern humans have only been on earth for about 4 seconds.

To quote George Carlin:

[quote]The planet is fine. The people are fucked.

Pretty much, George

Also for George, humans will not survive.

Well, yes, the Earth as a rock floating in space will go on for a long time. Earth as a habitable home for people and animals, not so much.

R156... asbestos maybe?

DDT?

Thalomide?

Well, this is the 6th extinction on earth. After we are gone I'm sure there will be life again and probably several more extinctions before the planet goes dark for good R162.

As I said in another post. If we do take ourselves out we'll, unfortunately, probably take the entire biosphere with us.

"The Matrix" was right. Humans are a virus. We don't populate the Earth, we INFECT it.

Good video about the last time earth warmed.

I can't wait to watch the Saudis burn!

R163, R164, those are both good.

R168, yup

It was never made clear what happened to bring about apocalypse in The Road R149.

I love the Earth clock! It makes me realize how meaningless we are as humans. We are the very last second in the clock. It’s totally absurd that we think we’ve made any impression on the universe at all. By comparison the dinosaurs were around for HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF YEARS. Humans have barely been around fifty thousand. We’ll be lucky to make another hundred. Good riddance.

R172, nope, totally clearl “a skein of light from the sky, deep concussions and the clocks stopped”. That’s a nuclear blast, bunky.

They come across bodies burned in cars, the father says, “they couldn’t go anywhere as it was fire everywhere. “. Still sound mor nuclear or me than climatic

It was not totally clear and McCarthy himself never said what it was. He has been asked and has never clarified. But I’m not going to argue with an illiterate.

I don't think we'll go extinct because the wealthiest of society will find a way to save themselves, even if it means living on a space station until they have a better option or can return here.

I hope they bring a lot of cats and dogs with them because a world without them would be empty.

(I wonder what other types of species have come and gone on this planet that were awesome like our cats and dogs are.)

But has anyone seen a good musical lately?

[quote]will find a way to save themselves

Likely not

[quote]But I’m not going to argue with an illiterate.

Fuck off

Whether you believe humans have caused climate change or not, and I believe we've contributed to it, we have not been good guardians of this beautiful planet. Humans are arrogant, we rape and steal, and have mostly not replaced or repaired what we've taken. Only in recent years have we become aware of the damage we've done but we have not done nearly enough to halt the harm we're doing.

Limit population growth, enact stronger regulations over pollutants and other human activities that damage the earth. We are gobbling up the earth's resources at an alarming rate. Fish are disappearing from the seas and garbage replaces them. We deforest to graze cattle, we defoliate to grow crops, we're just awful.

We would all have a better quality of life if there were fewer of us and we actually cared for the earth, each other, animals, and the amazing ecosystem. our arrogance and entitlement knows no bounds.

And don't even get me started on idiots like trump, the weapons industry, and others who put their profits first and the earth last. They are scum.

Humans are capable of much good, of creating beauty in art and music, but too many of us are interested in only instant gratification. The future of humanity isn't looking good, it's just too bad we destroy so many of the earth's wonders along with destroying ourselves.

"Dogs and cats," R176. "Dogs and cats."

"NEVER say 'cats and dogs.' ALWAYS say 'dogs and cats.'"

This film actually frightened me -

I apologize, but only because it's Snoopy.

Yes, the ice core sampling at the Arctic did prove that the Earth goes through periodic cycles of warming and cooling. AND yes, the current science also proves that we've accelerated the process by adding our carbon emissions, petrochemical and particulates to the atmosphere. Neither of these facts negate the others.

Climate change deniers are fucking tiresome.

Just do what the man says and enjoy your lives. Lovejoy said this 20 years ago, but hey, he was a crackpot to everyone but those of us who saw the signs. Fuck off to all of you...I moved north a long time ago when everyone was laughing at me. The summers are now brutal, the winters are fucking freezing, but we have WATER, good and clean, and clean air and a state government that gives a shit about those things.

I also bought a shotgun and will take out as many of you as dare to set foot in my carrot patch.

There is a lot of really amazing carbon capture technology being developed. Google the Petra Nova facility in Houston. It captures, buries and monitors massive amounts of carbon underground in an emptied oil field. The buried carbon then pushes up new oil to be pumped of all things.

Norway, Iceland and Sweden are projected to be carbon neutral within the next year. France and now likely the UK have signed into law that they will be carbon neutral by 2040. Canada is in the process of enacting carbon pricing across all provinces. Bhutan is projected to go carbon negative and has pledged to become waste free. The wheels are starting to turn but everyone has to get onboard.

Personally, I’ve gone car free and vegetarian for the last week and want to see if I can sustain it for the month. So far it’s been kind of fun and far less difficult than I thought it would be.

I am vegan for a day and love it

Awesome, R186. Google the carbon footprints of vegans relative to “heavy” meat eaters and it’s like 1/3. I know veganism is a sore point on DL but it’s truly better for the environment and no animal cruelty. I’m finding shopping, food prep and storage way easier as a vegetarian too. I barely use my freezer at this point and will likely unplug it. Good luck!

eat your tofu

No veganism won't help the environment. It is worse for the environment. Eating beef is bad for the environment but other meat is not like chicken. Small animals grazing doesn't hurt the environment.

Thank you to the poster who posted about carbon capture. I read about the 6th extinction, articles like this and I cower in bed. Thanks for giving me a little hope.

Very depressing thread, and thanks for those who posted thoughtful, informed replies. And no thanks to some others (ahem).

There has been a huge war on science in US conservative politics since the 1980s. Looking back, it's hard to believe that the Clean Air and Water Acts, the Endangered Species Act and the creation of the EPA were signed by a Republican president in the 1970s era (Richard Nixon, vile as he was, did not veto the legislation as the current potus surely would).

Pretty much since then, everything on the right is about immediate costs with regard for long term vital benefits. Who cares if the coasts "might" be wiped out in a generation or three, according to pointy-headed so-called experts? The business of America is business, and that means oil, coal, big ass cars and rolling back regulations!

Ronald Reagan demanded that the White House solar panels Jimmy Carter had installed be removed.

Cormac McCarthy lived in El Paso for many years. He said on Oprah that going back there to visit with his son inspired him to write The Road. El Paso/Juarez metro area is unbearably hot, has over a million people fighting for resources and is predicted to run out of water soon. McCarthy is also a regular at a scientist think tank in Santa Fe. Another good prize winning novel that demonstrates what life might be like in 30 years is Margaret Atwood's "Oryx and Crake." I highly recommend it.

What the fuck, R191, I gave a very thoughtful reply to real concerns. It's better advice than my 5th grade science teacher gave me when we asked what we should do in a nuclear explosion: bend over and kiss your ass goodbye and then run out and get fried - better than the slow death by radiation sickness.

Some bitches are never satisfied; not even with the manner of the approaching apocalypse.

Buckshot up the ass for everyone! Carrots more precious than gold! Chaos when the grocery shelves are clear and you can't afford a tank of gas or this month's heating oil! Thank you, big Oil, et al. We enjoyed the ride!

Oh, and for the person who thought it was the car companies who encouraged the end of the railroads and convenient mass transit in the US of A, just what do you think those cars ran on? It was Big Oil that betrayed us. Think of that next time you see an oil rig offshore instead of a windmill.

The problem can actually be solved, but only with the political will.

New technologies such as direct air capture, which literally sucks carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, have recently come down in price to $94 per ton. That would mean removing one year's worth of carbon emissions would cost around $340 per person, assuming it was only the developed world paying. Economies of scale would means the price could well plummet far below that.

Obviously it would have to go hand in hand with zero emissions - that means moving all electricity generation to renewable or nuclear as well as moving pretty much everything over to electricity, be it cars, central heating, industry, or whatever. There's more than enough uranium to power the entire world's energy demands for thousands of years, many more millennia or thorium, and a quite literally endless supply of solar, wind, tidal, etc.

We could potentially be putting no new carbon into the atmosphere and simultaneously removing a years' worth of carbon emissions every year. It's not insurmountable, it just takes the will.

R192 (and others) here's what Cormac McCarthy himself had to say. He hints a bit towards the eruption of the Yellowstone Caldera.

"When asked recently, in a conversation with the Wall Street Journal, about the nature of the catastrophic event in The Road, he answered by saying: "I don't have an opinion. It could be anything – volcanic activity or it could be nuclear war. It is not really important. The whole thing now is, what do you do? The last time the caldera in Yellowstone blew, the entire North American continent was under about a foot of ash. People who've gone diving in Yellowstone lake say that there is a bulge in the floor that is now about 100 feet high and the whole thing is just sort of pulsing. From different people, you get different answers, but it could go in another three to four thousand years or it could go on Thursday…""

R172, I think I saw a crater in “The Road”. Could have been an asteroid, I suppose. I always assumed it was a nuclear crater.

We need an ELE stat!

[quote]The problem can actually be solved, but only with the political will.

Of which there is none in the US. The only good thing about China is that they do have the machine of state backing environmental measures

I'm starting too believe all the tribalism/trade war/trumptard/ that's spreading around the world is really just an attempt to distract/divide us from the coming catastrophe. We fight over the little things so as not to attend to the big. 8 billion people all freaking out at once over the same thing is an oligarchs nightmare.

We're actually past the tipping point. There's no stopping it. There's only mitigating it.

And so far we're doing next to nothing to mitigate it.

We, as in, in the US

If we stopped all emissions tomorrow there would still be a 40 year lag time. The planet will continue to heat up for years. There has been global dimming due to pollution. During 9/11 when all the planes were grounded scientists took advantage of it and took temp readings to see if the temps went up when there were no entails from planes. The temps went up 2 degrees during that 2 or three-day period. Without global dimming, the temps would even be hotter.

reply 126.............yes this is the 6th extinction event................but we are speeding up the proccess enormously by cooking the planet the way we did so recklessly.

reply 129.you are in the first stage of grief........denial, dear.

From a living your daily life thing, this summer 2 things strike me as off...........I havent had to mow my yard in 7 weeks, the grass is almost dead..... the ground is hard as a rock. We had only one measurable rain and it was a flood and did considerable damage. The newscasters have reported this is the driest july since the year 1900. The other off kilter thing Ive noticed.............not so much early summer, but now........Im on the highway 3 times a week about 80 miles each time and there are almost NO bugs on the windshield. I live in an area where they should be swarming everywhere............almost no bugs in the summer in the midwest???? Anybody have a good explanation for that one that isnt global warming related???

R205 It was reported about a month ago that 75% of the insects have died off in the last 25 years. Another scary thing to worry about.

R205 I've noticed that too about the insects. Could possibly be chemtrails killing off the insects. I also think chemtrails manipulate the weather and weather patterns. Maybe because the area I live in is so heavily sprayed.

somebody asked about what climate scientists are doing personally to prepare for what may come. I noticed one moved to Denmark about 3 years ago with his family from the USA. His reasons: there is plenty of water. Denmark has been making more plans to try and adapt to what is happening. The population of Denmark is not heavily armed with guns...........those were his reasons. I note another well known climate scientists out front in the news a lot moved from his off the grid sustainable acreage/plot/ranch in new mexico with his family to Belize. It appears he gave up on the idea that sustainability would do any good and he has taken the approach of let whatever happens happen and enjoy life in the moment as we are beyond stopping it or even slowing it down. He seems to feel as soon as the arctic goes ice free in summer we are in for a freefall downward rapid decline. His choice of a hot tropical island at sea level certainly wouldnt make sense if he thought you could personally prolong the inevitable. To the person that asked if people are moving from coastal areas..............mostly I dont think so altho there are some stats that show time properties on the market and selling prices for property within a few blocks or on the beach are much slower than other properties. There are a certain group that are more well read that are trying to time the market and sell before the market for coastal tanks. And then there are the vast majority that go about business as usual and at best think global warming is something future generations in another century have to worry about. (i wish I were as oblivious as that)..........For me personally I moved from the gulf side of Florida to the midwest about 4 years ago. It wasnt only climate chg, but it was partly that. What Im finding in the midwest tho is rising temps, almost no snow in winter, much milder winter temps from 40 years ago when I was a kid..........and often long periods of no rain in summer. But you really have to ask yourself.....is it just the coasts that are going to be climate refugees? What about the southwest US and chronic water shortages and the fires and climbing temps? The midwest is drying and probably wont be the bread belt all that much longer. I read articles about people in Canada in heat waves and drought...........Im not sure exactly where you can go geographically to protect yourself and delay the inevitable? My best guess when it gets bad, knowing humanity we will have wars (probably nuclear) over resources and the question will be answered for us.

R208, you need to use paragraphs if you want to be read.

R208 Mcpherson moved to Belize for other reasons than climate. He is broke. His Girlfriend owns the property in Belize and she supports him. I wouldn't put too much trust in Mcpherson. He is not completely wrong but I have known him for years and his predictions are a little suspect.

r205 I've wondered about WiFi and cell towers, who knows what kind of effects they have that we don't know yet.

Don't forget that I rule the Earth.

It is clear now

The UK - the originator of the Industrial Revolution - has almost completely eliminated coal power in the span of a decade. Coal use is below 1870s levels and will likely be phased out entirely in the next 5 years. Sweden is in the process of electrifying it’s highway system in preparation for all electric vehicles. In terms of the time lag for warming, perhaps there’s hope with carbon capture we can actively remove CO2 from the air while also eliminating all emissions.

The wild bunnies and the big-fat-black bumble bees and the angry, aggressive hornets (yellow) jackets have all disappeared.

Additionally, we've seen no delicate fawns this year. Every year, for the past five, or more years, a 'local' doe would have 'twins,' every year, as would her fawns/does from former years. All Gone.

The sea water now turns 'Bimini Green' with algae blooms more and more frequently, lasting longer and longer than previous years. Low tides ebb farther and farther away from the shore, taking longer and longer to recover to natural tide levels.

Blackberries no longer bloom.

Hold me.

Red tide is killing everything in Florida

There's no such things as "Chemtrails" you fucking moron at R207

No Existing Policies Will Be Enough To Prevent A Future “Hothouse Earth”

Is this how you feel?

Letters from Climate Scientists on how they feel about climate change:

Informative and moving.

[quote] R211: [R205] I've wondered about WiFi and cell towers, who knows what kind of effects they have that we don't know yet

When phones were new, there were worries about this, but it shouldn't be a worry for anyone today. We already know that there are small amounts of radiation everywhere, so TV, radio, computer, and phone signals just blend into that.

Aside from sea level rise, what really worries me more are stronger and more frequent Atlantic hurricanes. New England hasn’t really been walloped in at least 50 years.

In my CT home town there is this road that runs along the Thames River and then along Long Island Sound. 50 years ago, there were no homes on the waterside of the street. There were some visible foundations, though. Ones built from huge blocks of granite. It turns out that the hurricane of ‘38 ripped all those homes off their foundations and into the sea. These homes were waterfront but still up pretty high, as the embankment was pretty steep.

The city reclaimed some of the land and turned it into a municiple beach. But the rest of it has all been built upon again. Even without global warming, they’re at high risk.

I similarly expect Provincetown to lose a long stretch of the waterside of Commercial Street, at least. I’m surprised it hasn’t happened already. That street floods during normal storms.

I remember you could walk for nearly an hour and not come across many people at all in some areas, 20 years ago. Now everywhere seems packed except for the truly dangerous places.

Walk nearly an hour where?

The Midwest is not a place to move, the heat will be traveling from the South and the equator in blooms right up through the middle of the country. It’s arid in most places and doesn’t have available water. Underground water is depleted or soon to be depleted. The only place that really encourages human livability in this country is the Northeast, just not on the coasts. It constantly rains here, and while the heat in the summers is miserable, we’re still having winters and some semblance of seasons. A portion of the upper Northwest could potentially support a small portion of the population. The fact is most of this country is an unlivable desert, not fit for continued long term agriculture or a sustainable human population that requires constant water. Water is the number one issue, and will always be for humans. Without water, you’re dead in 48 hours.

Read Cadillac Desert. It is eye opening.

Really, within three to five decades there will be no place to go.

I agree, R224. I live in the desert and I can’t leave due to finances and family obligations. If I could I’d be looking right now.

I grew up in Southern California and last week drove from the eastern California border to the ocean and back again. When I got home, I noticed there were very few bugs on the car and the windshield was pretty much clean. I remember doing that same drive forty years ago and the car was covered in bugs. If you drove through the Midwest it was even worse. I’m not seeing dragonflies, bees, wasps or frogs around the neighborhood. Not even mosquitos.

What makes heat intolerable isn’t the high temperature for the day, it’s the bottom temperature. If it’s a hundred degrees at 3pm, but cools down to the seventies at night, it gives you a chance to get the hot air out and move about in the early morning and evening hours.

We’ve had heat waves here where the bottom temperature is as hot as eighty-six degrees. The house never cools down, the A/C never gets to shut off. For people in states with high energy bills it is devastating.

People go out at midnight to get groceries and it’s hot then too. The more people out late at night, the more accidents and drunk or high drivers. People can’t sleep and they’re tired and cranky after weeks of insomnia.

The elderly suffer from dehydration which intereferes with their medication. One common side effect can be extremely low blood pressure from dehydration, which can lead to death. Often they don’t know what’s wrong and can quietly die without realizing they’re in crisis. They just feel dizzy, tired and weak and don’t know why.

My family and friends in Southern California are mostly in their fifties and all say the climate has changed dramatically since then. The bottom temperature is higher, longer heat waves and endless severe fires. We always had fires but this is ridiculous.

[quote]We’ve had heat waves here where the bottom temperature is as hot as eighty-six degrees.

try one hundred degrees at night!

The worst change for southern CA in the last 5 years has been the HUMIDITY. The summers are so bad now and I don't see and end to it. They say the tropical moisture from mexico is getting sucked up into the L.A basin in the summer now. The only time it is truly dry is November - June. When I moved here in 2004 it was not like this, the summers were a dry heat. The change happened around 2013.

Plan on it getting worse

I read that New England should expect more snow in the Winter. I forget the Summer prediction.

I hate the morons who cite snow in the snow zone in Winter as a counter argument to Climate Change. Weather is not climate!

We are in the last days.

Well, if lots of ice is melting in the Arctic Circle and coming south our way during winter, it will cause disruption and harsher winters (such as the one we had this year), and yes, even though it's a colder winter, it is due to global warming.

R230 you sound like some of the people I encounter in the Climate Change groups on Facebook. Are you a member of any of those groups? I am a member of a couple of them. I used to be in McPhearson's group but he turned out to be a scammer and got kicked out.

R226, the lowest temperature is usually around six a.m. it starts going up again around seven.

Most nights here are in the hundreds until about midnight.

It has been 30 years since the alarm bell was sounded for manmade global warming caused by modern industrial society. And predictions made on that day—and ever since—continue to be falsified in the real world.

The predictions made by climate scientist James Hansen and Michael Oppenheimer back in 1988—and reported as model projected by journalist Philip Shabecoff—constitute yet another exaggerated Malthusian scare, joining those of the population bomb (Paul Ehrlich), resource exhaustion (Club of Rome), Peak Oil (M. King Hubbert), and global cooling (John Holdren).

Erroneous Predictive Scares:

Consider the opening global warming salvo (quoted above). Dire predictions of global warming and sea-level rise are well on their way to being falsified—and by a lot, not a little. Meanwhile, a CO2-led global greening has occurred, and climate-related deaths have plummeted as industrialization and prosperity have overcome statism in many areas of the world. Take the mid-point of the above’s predicted warming, six degrees. At the thirty-year mark, how is it looking? The increase is about one degree—and largely holding (the much-discussed “pause” or “warming hiatus”). And remember, the world has naturally warmed since the end of the Little Ice Age to the present, a good thing if climate economists are to be believed.

Turning to sea-level rise, the exaggeration appears greater. Both before and after the 1980s, decadal sea-level rise has been a few inches. And it has not been appreciably accelerating. “The rate of sea level rise during the period ~1925–1960 is as large as the rate of sea level rise the past few decades, noted climate scientist Judith Curry. “Human emissions of CO2 mostly grew after 1950; so, humans don’t seem to be to blame for the early 20th century sea level rise, nor for the sea level rise in the 19th and late 18th centuries.”

The sky-is-falling pitch went from bad to worse when scientist James Hansen was joined by politician Al Gore. Sea levels could rise twenty feet, claimed Gore in his 2006 documentary, An Inconvenient Truth, a prediction that has brought rebuke even from those sympathetic to the climate cause.

It's cyclical . China is a HUGE polluter if you're going to blame a nation.

Isn’t India the worst?

R234, trolly trolly!!

Cyclical? China is a huge nation, and actively trying to convert to renewables. The US. sure fucking isn’t

It would probably make complete sense, both environmentally and long-term economically, for every nation step up a plan for renewable and nuclear power generation, and to close every coal mine in the world within 5 years, buy out the companies running them, and pay every employee put out of work twice what they're making now until retirement age.

Of course it won't happen, but at least some countries apart from the US are making efforts. History will not be kind to US politics in the late 20th/early 21st centuries regarding climate policy.

Nope, the US will go down in infamy, like the Hapsburg empire clutching to power cravenly.

We've had a climate change impact plan in my state since the early aughts. Guess where?

Mars?

Correct! We came with Matt and the Space Force.

[quote]Correct! We came with Matt and the Space Force.

It should be called the Trump Space Farce.

R221, that town is New London, CT!! The hurricane of '38 gave the town Ocean Beach!!

R245, what’s your age? And where do you live? I am curious if I know you.

58, Boston.

Never doubt the human spirit. Especially the American human spirit. We'll fix this.

cue the 'Sure Jan' gif

Centuries, decades? No, this shit is going down in a matter of days so all of you who plan on checking out before the planet collapses better hurry up... but before you do please send me your bank accounts password.

Fuck off

I love that there can be "Fuck off" in a discussion about climate change. Shows you how far we've come.

An apocalypse is my retirement plan at this point, plus I'm a misanthrope who dislikes most people anyway, so I'm fine with this. It's easy to be a misanthrope if you're gay, you hear me fellow queers, you've been there.

Now you know why the 1% is obsessed with acquiring even more money: It costs billions to build underground bunkers with enough necessities for a family for decades.

Knowledge of climate collapse is also behind the "escape to Mars" movement, championed by no less than Stephen Hawking.

Guy McPherson is the main scientist predicting mass starvation within 10 yrs. He says live your life with urgency, which is good advice regardless.

I am living my life with urgency.

I think us oldsters are being too optimistic(for ourselves) when we say the next generation will see this.

We're going to see it. And yes those of us who had live hand to mouth through our lives can consider it our 401k.

What is 401k? Please? I live in Europe and don't want to look it up. I know it has to do with retirement (possibly a retirement plan?) for Americans.

One thing people can do is learn how to grow food from seeds. It's a good skill to have regardless of what happens, and you never know when it might come in handy. Besides, it's fun. Radishes and arugula will both be ready in 30-40 days. Lettuce and mustard greens, also very quick. If an apartment dweller, you can find a place on a patio or fire-escape ,or even a window-sill. If you live in a house, you can rip out some lawn and plant a vegetable garden, or put gigantic plastic pots, such as come from the nursery when you buy a tree, in a spot with good light, fill them with soil and stand back. Plant some fruit trees, a nut tree, or a grape vine. Those will not produce immediately but might provide calories in the future, if other sources fail. You will never be able to grow things cheaper than you can buy them in a grocery store, but once in a while you have to give some thought to the idea that what happens if there is no grocery store. You can only live off the food in your refrigerator or pantry so long. In a really bad scenario, people who have agricultural skills are going to be highly prized, especially in post-industrial urban societies such as ours.

My gf and I have started doing just that R258. So far it's only tomatoes, beans, lettuce and strawberries, but we'll be expanding. Potatoes and carrots shouldn't be too difficult. Tomatoes, provided they're in the right spot, have proved surprisingly easy.

It is a good skill

The 'escape to mars' thing is so stupid... the "climate" of mars is unsurvivable by humans. For the money it'd take to try and establish a tiny self-sustaining colony on mars, we could totally fix things on earth to make humans survive en masse.

It's so ridiculous.

This thread got me thinking about Marvel's Infinity War. Our heroes are trying to stop Thanos from eliminating half of the world's people... which he is doing in order to save the planet. How will this film be viewed in 30 years?

[quote]I love that there can be "Fuck off" in a discussion about climate change.

This is the Datalounge. Any thread WITHOUT a "Fuck off" will be immediately deleted.

Keep that in mind you motherfuckers.

Sure, R259, farmers and gardeners just throw that shit in the ground and up it comes!

Carrots, strawberries, etc. require special cultivation and thinning. Have fun on your knees picking out tiny little sprouts. There are tricks, but since you think it's easy I'll let you figure it out for yourself. And do you know how to save those 'surprisingly easy' tomato seeds or do you buy your starts?

Growing skills are not just there for people. You have to be vigilant and observant.

Remote is not going to work. You'll need to come together with people when the grid comes down, not remain apart. We will need each other more than ever and it's how we ended up being so successful to begin with. I wrote earlier how my partner and I are remote, but it's not as simple as that. We liked the Transition Town movement until it was overrun with the do-goodies who haven't got a clue.

Read the novel War Day to get an idea.

As for tech being the answer? It's the fucking tech that brought us here. It's the unknown consequences of convenience that gave us all of this. Keep your tech. The best fucking tech in the world for carbon sequestration already exists....it's called a TREE.

R257, in brief, a 401k is a mostly employee-funded retirement account in the US. The employer often matches the first 6% of the employee’s salary. So, if the employee makes $100,000 a year and saves 10% in it, he saves $10,000, and the employer deposits $6,000 in it. The funds are NOT taxed when earned, but ARE taxed when withdrawn after age 70. (There is another version called a “Roth 401k” that is taxed when deposited, and then the principle and a lifetime’s worth of earnings are not taxed on withdrawal.)

Many US companies that used to pay pensions no longer do, and rely on 401ks instead.

The 6% match is generous these days.

Colonizing the moon or Mars is fine as a hobby but there’s no money in it.

Severe droughts, scorching heat, mass starvation?

Bitches, please! That's what I call a "good day" in my village

r258 How are you going to protect your garden from human predators? Growing stuff is in and of itself a good thing, but when the non-growers get desperate for food do you believe they'll pass up an opportunity to feed themselves, even if it means stealing?

The social media culture, inept governance, and general lack of skill/knowledge of survival skills means 70% will die off quickly.

My brother bought gold, “just in case”. I told him he should have bought turnips. He was confused. Then I told him that that I’d trade him all his gold for my turnips, and he laughed. We’ll see how it goes.

[quote]No government is taking this seriously because they are all owned by business who tell them

This is the truth, and I don't understand why it got greyed out and set in strikeout type in R7.

[quote] The best fucking tech in the world for carbon sequestration already exists....it's called a TREE.

Absolutely 100% fucking true.

I’m fine with that R270.

Why is R264 so aggressive? Weird.

Thank you R265 for the explanation on 401k.

Haha, R271

In 1636 he should have bought tulip bulbs (not in 1637!), but I see your point. I love turnips as a matter of fact.

R275, why are you so complacent? I have less issue with deniers than I do with the complacent i-phone generation of fools who think this is some alarmist joke they can tech their way out of.

Maybe I'm aggressive because I've been covering this shit for over 20 years and watched while everyone just consumed their hearts out without any concern for future generations or the consequences to the environment? Maybe I'm just mad because of the bad PR farmers, particularly organic farmers, get on a constant basis while being financially ruined for the sake of subsidies to poison farmers? Maybe I think that growing food is important and not so 'surprisingly easy.'

HINT for the easy going tomato ladies/gents: grow potatoes in the same area. Same plant family, more yield, more nutrition and you can store them without refrigeration or processing.

Anger works like that, but I'm not aggressive with my actions. I help out anyone who wants it, but the arrogance of most 'know it all' Americans prevents the offering of assistance. You have to ask, and politely, for me to believe you want real help.

R277, I love that you know about the Tulip rush and collapse.

I wanna be R278's when the shit hits the fan.

You are more than welcome, R280, because we'll need everyone working hard to survive. Enjoy the shopping and fun while you still can and keep yourself in good shape if you want to try and live through anything that may happen.

What makes anyone think they will be able to grow anything when the climate is too hot to grow anything and there is drought everywhere.

There are techniques to growing food in hot conditions, R282, and I've planned where I live using the best projections out there. If it's good enough for the founder of one of the top environmental organizations specifically targeting climate change, then it's good enough for me. We could be all wrong....we'll see.

Talk to the Dutch, their vertical farming is wonderous and getting more and more carbon neutral all the time.

Not to mention the breeding of specific varieties, shade clothes, xeri-ag', raised bed, mulching....

Ive started hand washing and hang drying all of my clothes. I’ve also started making my own detergent from soda crystals and vinegar. It’s all very easy and my clothes look the same. The average washing machine uses 40 litres of water per load. I’m also on week 3 of vegetarianism and am getting ready to try vegan. I just have to eliminate eggs. Car less for 3 weeks and doing fine

I'll stop the doomsday shit because it serves no one and I'm sorry. I'm just heartbroken and upset that it's come to this. I love this place, it's beautiful, but so much has gone already that you can't help wishing people had woken up sooner.

I walked through fields as a child that teemed with life buzzing and flying everywhere. That's gone now...but I hope everyone reacts like R286. We may have a chance.

R278 is so angry... Anger management, dude.

Why do you think you're speaking to a member of the "i-phone generation" who wants to "tech" their way out of anything? Where do you believe I own an i-phone (never owned any Apple product in my life), where do you believe I am in love with tech (in fact I tend to be wary of tech more than anything). The phone I own was bought in 2012, I've owned precisely 4 mobile phones in my life, the first one I bought was in 2006. When did you buy your first mobile phone? The first laptop I bought, 2003. When did you buy your first laptop? How many laptops have you owned? Me: 2.

If you're an expert at growing vegetables and more knowledgeable than the average citizen about this, why don't you share your knowledge? Or maybe you don't believe in sharing knowledge and skills, especially in a forum.

I've always been someone who doesn't consume much, "minimalist" if you will, and have always (including 20 and even 30 years ago, when I was a child) considered the consequences of our behaviour on the environment and future generations. Why do you assume this isn't the case? Why do you assume from my very short post that I am one of those who "consumed their hearts out without any concern for future generations or the consequences to the environment"?

How is it offensive that I said the tomatoes were surprisingly easy? They were. We were surprised to get tomatoes, we thought it would'nt work.

On what planet do you think we believe or listen to this supposedly bad PR farmers get? Do you not believe we know farming is very difficult work? Part of my family comes from farming and I know how hard it is. I don't want to become a farmer. Most of our produce, in our home, comes from the market. It is a producer's market and nearly everything else we buy for food is organic. What is your point exactly? Yes we know farmers are being ruined. It sucks. How is that an incentive to get aggressive at an anonymous poster on a gay forum in a thread about climate change?

We will be growing potatoes btw. And probably carrots too. Yes we know it's a bitch to pick up, we've done this before. For years we shopped for vegetables at a producer where you pick up your own from the fields and pay as you leave.

On what planet do you believe I was asking you for help, politely or not? Farming is not my field of expertise, so no I do not consider myself a "know it all" in that area, and like any sane human being, in any area in fact. Look up Dunning-Kruger effect. And finally I am NOT American nor have I ever set foot in America - South, North or otherwise.

Knowing how to communicate with strangers is a skill that you don't have, so I wish you good luck assuming you are under 30.

Finally: do you live in Russia????

R286 we've been making our own detergent too for about two months or so. Works fine except when the stains are really greasy. I gave up water bottles in October, now I carry my water flask everywhere.

Is R287 the same as R278?

Get a blog, R228, and I wasn't speaking to you, specifically, but the posters who were citing 'tech' as solutions, or did you not read the thread?

Finally, I don't need your help. I'm just fine and know how to express my anger while controlling myself, but I do appreciate your concern.

As for sharing knowledge, I did in this thread and for a long time in my life. You just enjoy lecturing people and extrapolating from a few posts a whole lifetime of work and attitude, bless your heart.

R290, yes, it is the same person. I'll now disengage. I've had enough and can walk away.

Tech ( internal combustion engines, nuclear fusion, plastics, etc.) is certainly what got us into this mess and social media has rendered people incapable of confronting problems in real life unless there's an app for it.

Thanks, you motherfucking nerds!

The thing about the toads and bugs being wiped out is true, at least in my observation. The fireflies I used to see in the hedges out my back window, as recently as five years ago? None this summer. Toads and bee nests in the lawn? Not this year.

I did plant some milkweed in a sunny place out front a few years ago, and am pleased to report that as it spreads I see more Monarch butterflies this summer than last. Do this!

Everyone I know who gardens with perennials talks about how everything is fucked up by climate change. Late severe frosts in zone 5; early emergence and bloom of native wild flowers, the bees being all off schedule, etc; none of that being on par with catastrophic flooding or killer storms, but it is affecting all of us even on a small scale, portending worse.

its fucked up

A good thing to do is if everyone would plant insect attracting flowers and plants. They are not really sure exactly the insects are disappearing. Bird behavior is changing too.

Yes. I did that. Lavender and rosemary. They are great herbs but I see bees now.

I’ve planted squash on a lark for the past three years and get big bushy plants and blooms but no fruit and they need to be crosspollinated. This year though I’ve gotten squash! First time. Thanks, bees!

That’s wonderful to hear, R297.

It was a great surprise.

Amazing technology being developed by a Canadian company called Carbon Engineering.

Another article on the same company. Very cool stuff.

As long as I have a way of listening to my Broadway Original Cast Recordings, I don't give a crap what happens.

We need a CO2 force.

We need to change to solar and renewable NOW. This is doable, but we are not doing it.

And remove existing CO2 from the atmosphere. WE do NOT know how to do this yet, so need massive scientific mission on this, starting yesterday.

Stop electing religious nutjobs and corrupt sociopaths.

Vote all republicans (ie fascists) out of office.

Sadly the oil companies are some of the biggest funders of carbon capture technology as it ensures their continued existence.

the republican party should be banished for this. Just vote them ALL out of power.

Another uplifting article on water generation and purification.

Trump/republicans are polluting the water too. We need water to survive. They are sociopathic cunts.

Vote ALL Republicans out of office.

"On Climate Change: It's Time to Start Panicking"

ATTENTION! ALL CARD-CARRYING DL MEMBERS, PLEASE PREPARE FOR EMERGENCY ENTRY INTO THE DATALOUNGE FALLOUT SHELTER!

Climate change is real. It is a threat to our existence. There is a policy and we have to implement it.

Solar and renewables

Science

We have to do this.

Just pretend to be an old person in a nursing home who couldnt give a fuck..

Can i adopt you [268] ?

Seems like a bit of bias confirmation. Most DLers sit at home eating cookies with the shades drawn hiding from life so forecasting catastrophe is a natural for them.

Alas most people don't care. In fact a good number of people probably regard Global Warming as a good thing in their limited understanding. Think of all the women in offices who have their space heaters on at all times. Or those who don't like the winter cold and always yearn for beach days year round?

Republicans have discovered that a large percentage of Americans are stupid people who will believe anything. And the Republicans take advantage of that to win to push their make-the-rich-even-richer agenda

R314 people have space heaters on because building temperatures are lowered to make it comfortable for men in suits.

No one wears a Suit anymore

Carbon taxes are catching on. The US will add one within 5 years

Why doesn't some benevolent zillionaire like Bill Gates step up to fund and begin implementing the types of tech that R300 and R301 posted? We really need the one or two mega-rich men who aren't complete evil shitheels to step up and attempt to counter the rest who are, because we penniless plebs are powerless in this world.

R301, the only problem is that we don’t need more gas. We need more renewable energy

R319, I believe we’ll still require fossil fuel for heavy transport (shipping, airline travel) until battery technology catches up. The most optimistic projections have us on track for electric airplanes with a 100-seat capacity and 500-mile range in the next 15-20 years. We’ll also need to start pulling carbon immediately, so at least this technology accomplishes some goals while we transition to renewables. The costs associated with wind and solar are coming down rapidly - more so than anyone has projected to date. I also agree that you’ll see carbon taxing in less than 5 years in the US. I imagine the revenues from that taxation will go towards subsidizing carbon removal facilities among other things.

There will be a massive shift in geopolitics as well. We will no longer require oil from the Mideast, but we will need silica and other minerals from Africa to build solar panels and massive batteries. The Chinese have been proactively investing billions into infrastructure while the US remains stuck on Saudi Arabia. With desertification, the Arab states are going to struggle with issues of habitability, too. It will be interesting to watch.

[quote] R304: And remove existing CO2 from the atmosphere. WE do NOT know how to do this yet, so need massive scientific mission on this, starting yesterday.

Actually, they already do this in submarines. If the air inside contains too much CO2, and they don’t want to surface, they can use “CO2 scrubbers” to reduce the CO2 levels in the air. I imagine it needs innovation to work on a large scale, though. Plus, nobody wants to pay for it.

I voted to approve an offshore wind farm to generate energy in Massachusetts. It was set to raise my electric bill, but I think it’s important.

Their collapse was complete, though, and it was never built. I think fracking brought the price of electricity down as much of it is gas generated here, and the wind people could not compete at those prices. I figure, the idea will be resurrected eventually.

What we really need are massive batteries that can store wind energy that is generated by day, for use at night, or whenever we have non-windy periods.

R322, Europeans are making huge strides in battery technology for wind turbines. With carbon taxing, fracking will no longer be the cheaper alternative.

I've never understood why people object to wind turbine farms (or "windmills," as the orange one derisively calls them) on aesthetic grounds. I think they are awesome, and look great, in a modern way. On road trips or from planes when I see great constellations of spinning turbines it makes me feel good about human achievement and the future.

I know, Mary!

Well.. the worse news is that this administration will do nothing, and don't believe in climate change, catering to companies.. turning back good regulations (especially anything Obama tried to do). I'm glad I'm not that that young anymore.. most of my life is behind me. Sleep well!

.. *doesn't* believe in climate change..

Completely electric cargo barges being tested on the Rhine. Could eventually be used for waterway transport in North America.

India’s government policies to shift to a completely electric transportation sector based on ridesharing and communal batteries.

Another fascinating article on carbon capture. The carbon sucked from the air will be used to create our building materials, recyclable plastics, sneakers, soft drinks, etc. We are going to experience the “carbon economy.” There will be hundreds of thousands of the container-sized units all over the world pulling CO2. Each container is the size of a large tree but will pull 1000x more carbon dioxide.

interesting, ingenuity is necessary, but also political will

Not sure I'd be looking to India for a world less polluted, but okay.

Seriously. One of the most polluted countries on the planet. Glad they're trying, but they're hardly leading.

We need to work it

Yeah, why isn't india working the toilet situation first?

Serious question to those of you who have suicide plans for when the end is near:

How are you planning on doing it?

Would fentanyl strips really work?

^ With tight control these days on opiods how would one get the fentanyl strips (asking for a friend) and wouldn't OD-ing on the strips be a painful death?

[quote]Serious question to those of you who have suicide plans for when the end is near: How are you planning on doing it? Would fentanyl strips really work?

You're getting ahead of yourself, R335. Even Stephen Hawking predicted a 1,000 years and then he died so what does he know.

Predicted a thousand years what?

"Humanity Only Has Around 1,000 Years Left on Earth, Stephen Hawking Predicts"

At the very most. And that doesn’t mean all7 billion of us, it could be a post apocalyptic three thousand or so. He’s being generous

Even if a lived for a 1000 years nobody would ever think that I'm a day over 500

Hahahhahahahahhahahha INDIA? Have you ever actually been there? Because I have, and it is literally a stinking shithole. They are about seventy five years behind the developed world, despite what their PR machine would have you believe. I wouldn’t count on them for anything. And they are going to have huge problems with widespread heat death and lack of water within the next two decades that will overwhelm any attempts to fix things. I wouldn’t count on India for anything. Most of the smart citizens are migrating.

Unfortunately, Democrats are so desperate for money they are taking donations from fossil fuel companies. Whoopsie!

I heard on NPR scientist are proposing a form of volcanic ash to lower temperatures and reflect sun. It has promise but could also have unintended consequences.

Sounds dangerous. Meanwhile we have unending rain this month

Shitty rain

I heard a rumor to avoid living in the northern hemisphere when shit goes down.

"What reason for this?" I ask in my best Inspector Sidney Wang voice.

Vancouvers been blanketed in haze for over a week due to all the fires in BC and the states.

R347, there's a lot more landmass in the north. Maybe the larger percentage of ocean surface will moderate the effects of climate change in the south? Otherwise, I have no idea.

Move somewhere close in proximity to the Great Lakes if you can.

Why do you recommend the Great Lakes region if moving closer to the equator has been suggested and that is actually where some of the elite have sprawling mansions on hundreds of land acreage that sits atop multiple aquifers. Aside from climate change, there is the serious issue of water shortages to consider. As we know, there is no "new water."

On another note, ironically, some elitists and others with excessive wealth are moving to the Central America countries that the parents, who are now separated from their children/families, fled from. I suppose they couldn't seek refuge in these areas as the land is costly and too expensive to live in general.

I'm not r350, but can think of a few reasons why the Great Lakes region makes sense. The Lakes are among the most concentrated freshwater resources on Earth. (Something like one-sixth of the world's fresh water).

The region is safely inland from coastal flooding that climate change will result in. Also, the region is temperate to cold now, and agriculturally viable. Average temperatures a few degrees higher will change the ecology (it is already happening) but it should still be livable and farmable as the planet continues to warm up, at least for longer than some other regions.

And it's cheap R352

Just dont move to Flint, Michigan.

You will die of boredom there before climate change gets you.

An interesting news clipping from more than a hundred years ago... even THEN they got it. And yet there are idiots still in denial about it now, more than a hundred years later.

I can't decide whether or not this is satire. "Chris" (don't know if it's a he or a she) believes that global warming is the result of the extra hour of sunshine we get as a result of daylight savings time.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Warming oceans means stronger hurricanes.

when man stopped being hunter/gatherers and the rudiments of the industrial revolution began we already lost the long term war on global warming in my opinion.

I read one climate scientist explain it that with all the planets/ stars/ galaxies both discovered an undiscovered out there it seems impossible that we havent discovered human life somewhere.....except for the fact that other planets/civilizations have overshot their environments also and become extinct.. Makes some possible sense.

From reading all these posts I think trying to figure out where to live to postpone whatever is coming our way is almost pointless as there are so many variables at play its best not to worry about it and if its possible relocate when things become more definitive. However that doesnt mean I would want to live oceanfront at this point, necessarily.

R352 Thank you for your informative post.

Solar energy

R357, I'm not so sure that that's satire. It reminds me of the woman who called into a radio show to complain about "Deer Crossing" signs that were placed near busy parts of a highway. She sincerely thought the signs should be moved to less busy stretches of the road so that deer could cross more safely there.

Being very old is such a comfort.

Not to mention the massive pollution of the oceans. Disposable plastics are choking it and its creatures to death.

Just curious: is anyone on this thread doing litter picking? In your area/beach etc? Doesn't have to be every day.

R366 i tried in the town I live in, by the waterfront (Hudson River). It was futile cleaning up after our careless and inconsiderate residents, who clearly don't give a fuck.

Be best

I've been screaming the alarm for decades now. Lecturing people on recycling and not using plastic, and giving expensive recyclable bags as holiday gifts. And yet I still know many educated people who claim to be concerned and who should really know better, not using reusable grocery bags and using styrofoam for leftovers. These are breeders who are hoping to have descendants, yet they are poisoning the world they plan to give to their grandkids.

How much effort does it take to do small things like take your recyclable bags and put them near the door so the next trip to the car you can put them in? To take your own cup to the coffee shop (or just buy a coffee pot and use a travel mug)? To fill up an insulated water bottle before you leave home rather than buy a plastic one when you're out and about? To put a sweater on rather than the thermostat on 78?

We're doomed because we're lazy, entitled idiots who talk a good talk but don't actually take even simple steps to attempt to save the planet we depend upon.

I'm going to start hoarding tulips.

I HATE people who don’t recycle! They should all be killed for the sake of humanity!

Why should we bother with recycling? It is not the Will of The Lord.

Before recycling, the best option is actually to get stuff without packaging at all. You know, from bulk bins with your own (glass) container.

Our favourite waste is no waste at all.

I pick up litter on a regular basis from a stretch of roadside near my house. People throw garbage from their cars, mostly plastic water and soft drink bottles. It used to be glass beer bottles. Not so many of those anymore.

Still can't get it round my head why anyone would throw garbage from a moving car. Do the people who do this know the harm they're causing, or do they just not know any better? Genuine question.

Good thinking, R370. Except it won't be tulips, it'll be water. Good luck hoarding that.

Recycling is a great idea and it makes many people feel as if they are helping the environment. However most of it is not being recycled so it's kind of an empty gesture.

Back to R373. A plastic-free life. It can be done. Who wants plastic anyway? Outside of a medical environment?

Glass is the only material that can be recycled indefinitely. Everything else is at some point doomed to becoming waste. Plastics can only be recycled once.

[quote] R344: I heard on NPR scientist are proposing a form of volcanic ash to lower temperatures and reflect sun. It has promise but could also have unintended consequences.

As long as the scientist isn’t played by Jeff Goldblum.

Recycling is a last ditch effort. Anything less is kissing yourself goodbye

r379 and that "once" is many decades down the road.

Actually, cardboard is fully compostable. A good use for it is to suppress weeds, just putting some bark or straw on top of it to disguise it. It breaks down in about 3-6 months depending on the climate and the amount of rain. It's very good for the soil, attracts earthworms. But it can also be recycled into cardboard again, a certain number of times.

I've heard there have been experiments to put plastic in paving materials to stabilize them. (See link)

Our inability to recycle things is due more to lack of imagination and motivation than anything else.

It takes effort. We're too lazy.

So we'll soon drown in our own trash.

I confess, I do little recycling.

I collect my returnable cans and put them out in a single bag for pickup. In my neighborhood, the little Vietnamese ladies have a lock on the racket. Meaning, they come around before the recycle wagon and take the cans, which is fine.

But otherwise, I do not use a “blue bin” to put out paper and cans and such. I live in a city apartment and the idea of bringing this bin back into the house after it’s been pissed on by animals and so forth, and then putting it in the kitchen of my small apartment is repugnant.

When they take the cans, they are hurting recycling. The metals (usually aluminum) generate money for the recycler, which offsets the little money gotten for plastics and glass. Without that financial incentive, recycling efforts are hindered. This practice of scavenging metals from recycle bins is supposedly not allowed in some communities for this reason. Can't those women do crafts instead? Are they that desperate for cash? Where in the world are you located? In the USA?

R386, I’m in a nice section of Boston. There is a Project nearby. I can’t imagine arresting these poor people for this reason, but whatever.

Glass still makes the best container anyway.

Scientists Develop Lab-Made Mineral That Will Suck CO2 From The Atmosphere

Yes, more science, more engineered materials, that'll help waste and pollution.

smdh

I don't know if this is related, but I haven't seen any fireflies this year. I've lived in this house for fifteen years. There used to be a lot of fireflies every summer, last year I noticed there weren't many, and this year, none. I've spoken to several people who've said the same thing.

^ I've noticed that as well. Less and less each year, until now they are non-existent. Same with butterflies. I miss them both. Is the air getting so polluted that they are disappearing? Or is it true that this is due to chemtrails?

Someone tested a number of lakes and rivers and found that they were carrying traces of estrogen (from birth control pills); antidepressants; testosterone, and other pharmaceutical chemicals. This is from people peeing the chemicals out. It’s hard to believe that this has no effect on wildlife.

R386, I think the post you're replying to said that so,wome comes along and takes the returnable beverage cans the other person puts out, meaning to turn them in for the deposit. And then the return center pays back the deposit and the stuff is sent off for recycling.

Deposits on cans and bottles are a success story, in terms of keeping some of what used to be trash off the streets and out of landfills. And if more places went to a dime instead of a nickel deposit, and expanded it beyond just soda and beer to include juice and water, it would work even better

Human ingenuity may lose out for human greed

The drop in the number of fireflies is thought to be a problem with light pollution. The artificial light get in the way of firefly mating signals.

Butterflies--loss of habitat and plants.

Thank you for the explanation. That makes perfect sense.

Flying insect biomass has dropped 75% over the last three decades. That is really bad news.

Wow!

I haven't seen a dragonfly/darning needle since the late 80s.

The fireflies all came out our way. We seem to have more than ever.

I saw them in Maine this summer

R402 Where is "our way."

What's going on in Florida? It seems like their marine life is dying off.

Killer red tide. It’s bad for humans too

You can thank GOP Governor Skeletor ... I mean, Rick Scott for that. What else did they think was going to happen when they started dumping SugarCorp's wastes into the ocean?

Bad news

[quote] 'We're doomed'

You young'uns are doomed. I'll be dead and in the ground before the doom, upheaval, and suffering really hits (probably).

R409, better hope you have only ten years left. Or less.

R409, better yet, end it all now

R410, I think we're a few decades out from the real disaster, but the GOP taking over all branches of US government has doomed our planet. We had a chance with DEMs in power to forestall the worst of things, but that hope is gone now. I don't envy people who'll be living through the mid-2000's at all.

R411, ha ha ....

Things are accelerating faster than scientists predicted even in their worst-case scenarios. We're seeing higher high temperatures, bigger droughts, bigger and more storms, etc., etc. Methane releases from melting permafrost and bubbling up from hydrates melting in the warm oceans, are only compounding problems.

Things have gotten so much noticeably worse in just the last ten years, the next ten will make things nearly unrecognizable.

I live in the United States which has a manageable population, a vast amount of fresh water, and fertile land. We wont escape the effects of global warming but we will be better off than most of the world. I don't see me or my grand kids dying from this so I'm not going to worry about it, plus there isn't much that one government or person can do. Most of today's pollution is emitted from developing countries that aren't going to halt their economic progress, looking at you China and India. If the Earth could cleanse itself after the meteor strike from the prehistoric period, then it can correct itself from human damage.

I'll keep recycling but I don't think there is much that can realistically be done.

[quote] I don't see me or my grand kids dying from this so I'm not going to worry about it

Exhibit A of: How We Arrived At The Brink of Catastrophe.

[quote]I don't see me or my grand kids dying from this

I do, you speak very hubristically

R414, I'm not sure exactly how immune we will be here in the U.S. This is particularly true when the coastal cities and lands begin to flood from rising sea levels. That will signal the beginning of all hell breaking loose. Our society runs on a fragile infrastructure. Any disruption to the norm -- especially one of that magnitude -- will throw the system into chaos.

We are in this mess because we overproduce, overconsume, and waste a lot of precious resources in the process. And everyone does it. We live in a disposable, throw-away society without anyone ever giving a thought to the real costs of producing -- for example -- all those billions of plastic forks or what is going to happen to them after you've eaten your salad at lunch. Somehow a plastic fork and knife appeared for your use, and somehow someone is going to dispose of it. And on it goes. We drive vehicles that are larger than what we need, and we produce staggering amounts of food, a great deal of which is wasted.

But no one wants to stop and change their life to adapt. And no one will do it until we are forced to by circumstances that will then be beyond our control.

^ Great post. Unfortunately, everything you said is true.

[quote]But no one wants to stop and change their life to adapt. And no one will do it until we are forced to by circumstances that will then be beyond our control.

sad but true

Great post, R417. I've been Chicken Little for years. Rather than putting the emphasis on increasing population to increase economic growth, we need to put the brakes on. We each produce pounds of garbage a day - when the population of the Earth reaches 10 billion what happens?

I am a mug-cradler. I carry my own water flask. I use public transport. I wash my reusable tissues made of cloth. And I cook most of my own food.

We produce about 50L of garbage/week. That's too much. We're working on reducing that, will keep you posted.

Making it a point not to drink from water bottles is actually doable, and makes a huge difference per person.

Totally, it’s a completely marketing scam. Drink vodka or gin if you want to be seen walk-in around with a bottle in your hand

At least those are glass bottles, so they're recyclable. Provided you take them to the recycling container after finishing them.

I just posted this on another thread and thought it's sort of relevant here too, so I copied & pasted.

"In addition, there will be a population explosion like we've never before seen when Roe v Wade is overturned. We need to understand that it was a VERY different world back then, prior to the early 70s when abortion was illegal. Making it illegal at this point in time, in today's world, will be disastrous. However, at this point, this is a reality. If early termination of pregnancy/abortion becomes illegal, there will be a population explosion that will create more issues and problems than we could have imagined."

R426 The US birth rate had already fallen to below the replacement rate before Roe vs Wade. It's the same story in European countries prior to their own legalizations of abortion.

The collapse of Western birth rates correlates most closely with widespread availability of the pill, women working full time, and male wage stagnation. Abortion is statistically insignificant - it's widely considered that the proportion of pregnancies that end in termination now (one in three) is broadly comparable to the number in Victorian times (also one in three) when the birth rate was significantly higher but for reasons unrelated to availability of abortion.

We actually reached peak birth back in 2004. The population is still growing because extended life spans. Birth rates have dropped everywhere are below replacement in several countries--Europe, Japan, the U.S. China. Educating women is probably the best form of birth control around--women marry later and have fewer kids. So, support the education of African women, since there are still high birthrates in several African countries.

Trump is very bad news for the environment, however, the courts are blocking a fair number of his attempts to undo environmental laws. One of the big things he's going after is California's autonomy on setting emissions standards, which is guaranteed by name under the Clean Air Act. This matters because California's emissions goals are aggressive and 13 other states follow California's, not the federal standards, on emissions. Since California is the largest car market in the U.S. this means the state basically sets the standards for auto makers. Trumpy's boss, Putin, relies on oil for his wealth, so he HATES this. However, the law on this is well-established, so it's going to be a hell of a fight.

Climate change is here and it's going to be very bad, but like most things, people in the rich countries will have an easier time than people in the poor countries. Some issues aren't up to us. Plastics, for instance--90 percent of the plastic pollution in the oceans come from 10 river systems--but NONE of those rivers are in the Americas or Europe. Eight are in Asia, two are in Africa.

China's working on it, but it still emits a ton of pollution--a third of the air pollution where I live (west coast USA) comes from China.

Long-term, I think we'll make the necessary changes, but there will be a lot of damage and loss first. The rich countries, like the U.S., will be able to do some protective things--I expect some sort of dike system built under the Golden Gate Bridge at some point--it will be insanely expensive, but it will keep the Central Valley from reverting to an inland sea. The Netherlands and the UK are already building dike systems to deal with rising sea levels.

On the other hand, I think Florida is toast, there's water coming in from four sides. Bangladesh--gone. Various Pacific Island nations--gone.

There will be more weather extremes--but, again, the wealthier regions will be better able to compensate. In some ways, Russia's in good shape--it should end up with more arable land. On the other hand, if the Chinese are facing severe droughts, they're not going to let Siberia go to waste.

60 percent of the world's population lives in a triangle that includes China, India, Indonesia and SE Asia. Political tensions have risen in that region--expect more.

The Middle East, on the other hand, is on its way to becoming too hot for human habitation; live by the oil, die by the oil.

R427 "According to WHO, every year in the world there are an estimated 40-50 million abortions. This corresponds to approximately 125,000 abortions per day. In the USA, where nearly half of pregnancies are unintended and 4 in 10 of these are terminated by abortion [1] , there are over 3,000 abortions per day. Since 1973, when the Supreme Court handed down its decision in Roe v. Wade, there's been "well over" 54 million abortions, and possibly close to 60 million."

I don't agree that "abortion is statistically insignificant." I stand by what I said; reversing Roe v Wade will be disastrous. Over-population, in terms of lack of resources, also raises another issue.

Then there's the "Freakonomics: Abortion and Crime" statistics. But we're getting too off-topic, so maybe for another thread.

It wasn't all abortions, but China's one-child policy actually did check world population growth (and emissions) by a significant amount. Places where abortion became illegal and hard to obtain, such as Romania and Iran, did see problematic surges in birth rates.

Birth control matters a lot.

I don't know about what happened after the revolution, but Iran has followed the typical path for developing nations in recent years. Their birthrate has dropped so much they're considering banning access to birth control.

Fewer children works

Where are the super hurricanes we kept having last summer? I was afraid that would be a yearly thing.

Iran's population grew 32 percent between 1990 and 2008--around 4 percent a year from 1976-1985--revolutionary Iran was brutal towards women, so no birth control, limited education and career opportunities and, of course, a big push toward breeding new revolutionary soldiers. The population explosion turned out to be a lot to handle, so Iran has eased its various restrictions.

So a country that had a manageable population of 34 million in 1976 now has 80 million and will probably level off at 100 million--no increase in land.

But it's the Indian subcontinent that's really overpacked--India on its way to overtaking China with 1.3 billion AND Pakistan and Bangladesh with another 300 million. Take a look at the map at Bangladesh on one side of India and Pakistan on the other--those two areas combined have the population of the United States. Both of these countries, on their own, have more people in them than Russia. Pakistan, at least, is at a high elevation, 80 percent of Bangladesh is basically a flood plain. With global warming, monsoons which already cause major flooding will only get worse--add in sea level rise--a 3-foot rise will wipe out 20 percent of the country and displace 30 million people in a country that's already jam-packed.

The Syrian refugee crisis will be a drop in the bucket next to what's coming up.

R433, the season lasts until the end of October

Bangladesh will be a problem with sea level rise. Millions will migrate or drown. There won’t be room for them. Pakistan will confront India, demanding they be allowed into India. India, meanwhile, will be running out of water for its own people as the Himalayan-sourced rivers start to run dry, as do their glaciers. Also, China will want those rivers for their people. India, Pakistan, and China all have nukes. It will be a mess.

I hope by the time the shit hits the fan they already sold affordable sex robots or realistic virtual-reality machine

They already are. Watch a movie or a TV show, any one of those, and then compare with the reality of your surroundings. We are already immersed in a "virtual" reality far more desirable than our actual reality.

And the trouble is, we are neglecting our reality, therefore turning more and more to TV as fantasy, while reality gets grimmer, etc. TV shows are so prim and proper these days (some of them).

This is a really great thread. Very eye-opening and informative. Thanks OP.

Just want to add: Think of the climate wars. Climate change is going to produce climate wars. There will be climate wars like we've never before seen as hoards of climate refugees flee, seeking safety in a neighboring country.

Bangladesh and its 200 Million people will be underwater by the end of the century. Those refugees won't have anywhere to go except India. This is going to make the refugee crisis resulting from the Bangladeshi Independence War look like nothing.

R434 how limited are iranian women's education and careers if they make up 60 percent of medical school classes and PhD programs? The country is fucked but not for reasons you cite. They are educationally very sophisticated.

Anyway I'm worried as hell and can't believe how many of my educated well nonreligious off female friends are pumping out kid after kid. Selfish, ignorant, or undeterred by the prospect of the kids living through climate hell?

R434, I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about post-revolutionary Iran. The rights of women were highly restricted under the Ayatollahs and birth rates soared. Socially, things have eased up and educational opportunities for women have increased--and with it, the birth rate has dropped. Basically, the regressive policies created a bunch of unforeseen problems--like that huge population boom.

Basically, we could do a lot with good sanitation/waste disposal in Asia and Africa and education for kids around the world. Education, besides providing skills, means fewer teen-agers getting married and pumping out babies. Put off childbearing and, even without birth control, you're going to see lower birth rates.

R441, Actually, European cultures (and I'll include the U.S. and Canada here) have a viable population strategy. Traditionally, Europeans don't marry until they can set up their own household. They put off childbearing until they can afford it. This means when things are scarce, they have fewer kids. The reproductive strategies in Asia and Africa, however, involve younger wives, often multiple--the reproductive results in lots of kids with the idea that a few will survive famine, epidemics and such. However, in a modern world where famine and epidemics are better controlled, this has resulted in soaring populations. It's not an accident that the birth rates in the European-culture countries dropped without government interference--it's "expensive" to have kids so people put it off or have fewer. As Asia's become more westernized, the European approach has become more of a norm and birth rates have dropped, though it took massive interference to do this in China (where family is seen as the base of power--a big family is a powerful network.)

In some sense, in both Europe and North America there's been a natural correction for overpopulation--people have fewer kids and the population should drop. The problem is that capitalism loves a lot of worker bees/customers so there's been a financial incentive to allow mass immigration. I think some of the resentment Europeans and Americans feel toward immigrants is that they already know they work harder to have less than their parents did, but the number of immigrants mean that they don't benefit from having more per capita as a result. And while immigrants do increase the size of an economy, they don't make land/housing/food cheaper. There's more competition, overall.

The best thing, though, that the powerful countries could do, however, is to discourage immigration by enacting strong correctives to climate change, helping to reduce the massive ocean pollution emitted by those eight rivers in Asia and two rivers in Africa and helping people get access to education and birth control.

The sad thing about Bangladesh is that the country's made great strides in reducing poverty and developing in various ways--now it looks like it will all get washed away through no fault of its own.

Let's not forget about peak oil. Won't the end of the oil age help somewhat in curbing global warming? I realize the damage is already done. There will be less of everything. We will be going back to pre-industrial living whether we want to or not. James Howard Kunstler goes into this best.

* sobs *

R443, I don’t think we can rely on peak oil for a reset. New fracking technology breathed new life into old, played-out oil fields. I think technology will postpone peak oil for decades.

R442 great post.

I found this interesting map of India demonstrating fertility rate rate by state. It seems the south Indian states (and the North Indian state of Punjab) are below replacement levels, while many other states are...not.

Thanks R446, your link is interesting. People in the U.S. tend to think of China and India as single countries and single populations, but both countries are more like Europe than they are like the United States in terms of cultural/ethnic diversity. India is full of ethnic groups (It has 22 major languages, 720 dialects.) that don't always get along. Migration from climate change *within* India is going to be traumatic. Last thing India needs is a continuing population boom in the north. The entire country could stand a below-replacement birth rate. It just doesn't have the resources.

China's managing its population better--its big problems are lack of water and pollution. China looks big on the map, but most of it's not arable--and desertification is making it way, way worse. More than 10 percent of the country has undergone desertification or is on its way to being so. And that's not including the Gobi Desert which was already there (but growing by leaps and bounds every year. Less than 4 percent of China's forests remain. In contrast, 70 percent of the original forest land in the United States is still forest.

Americans use too much oil and energy, but a lot of the problems aren't ours. But as the richest nation on the planet, it's a damn shame that we're going aggressively backwards. We're still spared the worst of it, so the denial continues--though the denial practiced by Florida Republicans is in a league of its own. I just don't see how Florida makes it. It's on its way to being a modern trashy Atlantis.

Why don't the Chinese replant some of the forests and vegetation?

Record-setting rain in Wisconsin

The Siberian permafrost is melting.

R448, a “green wall of China” is in the works to stop soil erosion.

There's an interesting lecture here about regreening deserts using grazing animals. Basically, the usual logic is that grazing animals cause desertification, so removing them should regreen the desert, but doesn't. This guy's studies revealed that regreening efforts were more effective when grazing animals were present as their waste and trampling is required to reverse desertificaiton.

There are some before and after photos of previous projects, too.

China has 4% of their forests left? They have a long way to go.

Doesn't mean anything R449. With climate change how long are we able to sustain growing fruits and vegetables and raising animals for consumption? I'm a vegan and I know we get a lot of flak here, but fruits and vegetables, especially in the future, are more sustainable than animals. The dust bowl in the 1930's that had devastating affects on agriculture and the economy. At the highest the loses were, in today's economy, $440,000,000 a day. A person that owns some land where they are able to grow their own food is going to be the rich person.

Mother Nature always wins.

'The Day After Tomorrow' was a documentary.

Arctic’s strongest sea ice breaks up for first time on record Usually frozen waters open up twice this year in phenomenon scientists described as scary

The reforestation of Pakistan was part of Imran Khan's campaign platform.

R448, They're working on it, but it's not that simple and there's not a ton of extra water in China. Combatting desertification isn't that simple--what works in one place doesn't work in another and may make it even worse. The Sahara is also growing and efforts to combat that in Africa are also hit-and-miss.

There do seem to be some successes, but it's one of those big climate-change issues that doesn't get a ton of coverage in the U.S. since it's mostly seen as happening elsewhere, but desertification would render large areas of land uninhabitable--northern Africa, inland Australia, south India, interior China, the Middle East.

The Syrian civil war is argued by some to be the result of climate change--long, severe drought forcing rural populations to move to cities. That's 3 million climate refugees. What happens when Bangladesh is under water? They're already talking *30 million refugees" from one country. And it won't be the only country.

In one way, Putin, who is behind Trump's attack on the Paris Accords, is a fool. He wants to keep selling oil, but what country has the most land and a crashing population--Russia. Russia thinks it's inviolate because of the famous Russian winter.

What if there is no longer a Russian winter? And China decides it needs some of those Russian resources and water?

I’d love to see China kick russia’s Ass over cclimate related issues

Plant a tree to fight climate change.

Imagine the screaming fits over more nuclear.

Ultimately dangerous

Trump administration trying to rescind Obama-era power plant emission rules, which were progress but arguably not even enough, is disgusting. And his derision of wind-turbine power, which is being used to great effect in Europe, as "those windmills," is sickening. He's a dolt, in the pocket of the outmoded coal industry and obviously knows nothing about science.

Trump is single handedlu worse for the planet than anyone else

Putin's even worse for the planet, since he gave us Trump so he could continue selling oil.

^ For the planet and all of its inhabitants.

I did some fast checking on recycling. China is now refusing to accept our plastics and mixed paper. Yes, we must recycle that here. This is so disheartening.

R460, more likely is that India and Pakistan will go to war over water (see Indus River Treaty) with China playing the spoiler.

China's trying to get up to 35 percent recycling (where the U.S. is). One of the problems with China no longer taking U.S. trash is that the U.S. grew to rely on China for recycling and doesn't have the infrastructure to recycle its own trash efficiently.

A real president would work on the issue--and see it as an opportunity to create jobs in states like West Virginia that need blue collar jobs.

And you can't forget the very young, very big populations in Africa and the Middle East - already running out of water, living without ac in the hottest of conditions. They will not stay put and die (at least the men) and there will continue to be a growing wave of non-stop attempted immigration to Europe. Europe will become overwhelmed with millions upon millions of hot, thirsty young men would would rather die getting into Europe than die in Africa or the Middle East.

R471 Europe will conveniently forget about its outrage at Trumps' wall and build its own.

North Africa, the Middle East, the Indian subcontinent are all ticking time bombs--population explosions, getting hotter--parts of the Middle East may become uninhabitable. Desertification increasing the spread of the Sahara, Europe can't cope with 3 million refugees. What will it do with refugees numbering in the hundreds of millions?

China, maybe India, has a chance. There's no money in Africa and half that continent could end up basically uninhabitable.

The United States is very lucky--its longest border is with a country to the north that's lightly populated. Oceans protect it from largescale land invasions. Mexico and Latin America aren't facing the same kind of climate/population disaster Eurasia and Africa are. We'll lose Florida and parts of the other Gulf states. Various cities will need to build dikes and maybe move more inland. Places like the SF Bay Area and NYC will need to get serious about flood control the way the Netherlands is.

It's going to take money and infrastructure to survive this. A lot of people won't.

I just came across this interesting article, although it's from a prepper website.

(NOTE: Most of the daily authors of various articles on this prepper site are credible but the posters are nuts. I have never commented on this site but know it's heavily moderated and posts don't show up for 12-24 hrs, or longer. IMO, don't bother commenting).

Warmer Arctic temperatures are destabilizing the polar vortex that normally keeps that mass of frigid air trapped up North.

reply 473 good summation, but I think it doesnt take into acct the first thing that happens to the US which is a severe drought not only in the southwest but the midwest and the resulting drastic reduction in agricultural output and probable food and water shortages. Its easy to just think of rising seas as to global warming, but we are going to get hit from multiple fronts.........water scarcity, food shortages, problems with the electric grid not being able to keep up with the rising temps, possiblity of disease spread by the release of centuries buried now uncovered melting permafrost of plagues long dormant, and on and on cascading problems. Also, dont discount resource wars between countries as a result and the can of worms that opens up.

Fascinating aerosol map of the earth with all the pollution in the atmosphere.

Wow!

Thanks r477

R473 is hopelessly deluded and part of the problem. Read and you will see that the US is headed for a world of shit with climate change. We house the hottest desert in the world, for one small example.

When researching the recyclability of some plastics, I found out some places are now burying plastics and mixed paper because there is no where to send it. Computer parts sent to China are not really fully recycled. They are tossed and burned in many cases. It is too easy to blame China. We need to recycle that stuff here. This is so disheartening. It is so hot today, 95 Fahrenheit.

It’s a done deal. Nothing is gonna chance. Money rules the world. Enjoy your life. Stop wasting your time.

So glad I didn’t have children...I’d be leaving them nothing to enjoy of the earth. I think that EARTH 2100 docu-cartoon is still on YouTube...if y’all haven’t seen it yet, watch it...

Well then fuck dieting and exercise.

R476, The Great Lakes have 20 percent of the world's fresh water, so the Midwest (at least parts of it) have some protection against severe droughts. BUT there needs to be much better water management. California has a large aquifer that, of course, got pretty stressed by the last drought, but there are scientists working on the issue of how to replenish the aquifers. Longer term, though, the loss of the Sierra snow pack is a major issue for California. Now, of course, it's these huge wildfires that sweep across the west every summer.

Death Valley is relatively small and no one really lives there--so if it gets even less uninhabitable that's not an issue in terms of refugees. There will be displacement within the United States, but there's room for it. There isn't room in Bangladesh or in India next door.

We need real policies and forethought to deal with the disaster we've helped create--instead we've got stomping feet, greed and denial.

R485, if California rebuilt/repaired its leaking water systems, there would be enough water for their needs. So much leaks out - that’s a problem that could be fixed. It costs money, though. But it also means jobs and is necessary.

NYC also has very leaky pipes, but no water shortage to encourage them to fix it.

Reservoirs are well beyond capacity in NY. We’ve had record breaking amounts of rain over the summer.

Waaa, watch out, R488!

The queer thing is, if CA fixes their leaks, well, LA and SF may drink to that, but, I wonder if the areas that previously had leaks will then dry up? I mean, are the leaks keeping some wells replenished, for example? Will fixing the leaks turn some areas into uninhabitable desserts? I don’t know and haven’t read about such unintended consequences, but there must be some such conquences.

Cool advancement in carbon-free nuclear technology. Nu Scale’s Small Modular Reactor design moves into Phase 2 of approval from Dept of Energy. The SMRs have a lot of potential to replace coal and natural gas. They also use less water and produce less waste than conventional reactors, are buried underground, are much cheaper to build, and less prone to accident. The reactors would be built in factory and could be shipped around the world. Utah is looking at building one by 2026 to replace coal generation.

The SMR reactors also can’t meltdown like conventional reactors.

The Ogallala Aquifer fascinates me. It’s what makes the Midwest the bread basket that it is. Of course, it’s being used frivolously, and when it’s used up, it will be finished. Kaput. It took ages to fill, the water in it is ancient. It will take 6000 years to refill. Farming there is expected to peak between 2040 and 2070 due to water depletion.

I have mixed feelings about nuclear energy, R491.

Germany decided to phase it out, after the Fukushima disaster. France, meanwhile, gets 75% of its energy from nuclear.

Sea level rise.

Just watched a report on how Pheonix has to deal with heat the way coastal cities have to deal with hurricanes. And that as time goes on, the city is approaching a point where it will be basically "uninhabitable". They've already had days where temps hit 120 degrees.

Even where I am, nowhere near there, we've had 50 days of temperatures at or above 100 degrees. Twenty years ago, that just didn't happen, now it happens nearly every year.

R494 Germany has it right. Unfortunately, I live in France. 6 new reactors are on the way.

Wouldn't rising sea levels affect the salinity of underground aquifers, at least along the coast.

R458, interesting. I do not know.

I did see that one theory is that rising sea levels would affect the salinity of the oceans. This would affect the Gulf Stream and all the natural currents. They’ll stop. This will change the temperatures everywhere. New England and Europe will be much colder. Also, we’ll get dead zones where the warm and cold layers stop doing whatever they do today, so the Caribbean will be a warm, but oxygen starved dead zone.

R498,

Yep. This is already happening in Florida, where the limestone is really porous, so Florida's getting it from four sides--east, west, south and underneath.

I got it from different sides once and...oh, never mind !!

And as the climate changes, the earth adapts a bit. As we have fewer freezes in Texas, black mangroves are moving into our saltmarshes. It's unknown how this will affect our fisheries.

hotter than hades in early september

Want action on Climate Change and other civil and human rights issues, LOVE DEMOCRACY?

Call your US senators on Monday and tell them to VOTE NO on Brett Kavanaugh for the US Supreme Court.

Why? HE is a very dangerous and extreme person for SCOTUS He does not deserve, nor is he qualified to be on our highest court in the USA. Also, he is extremely anti-gay and against health care for the American people.

CALL CALL CALL

ON MONDAY!

(#)stopkavanugh for more information on twitter.

Click the picture link for a website for some information. Join us against Kavanaugh.

I’m calling

EVERYONE CALL your US Senators and tell them:

VOTE NO against Brett Kavanaugh appointment to the US Supreme Court.

he is against climate change policy, the EPA and the Endangered Species Act.

He’s an idiot

[quote]On the other hand, I think Florida is toast, there's water coming in from four sides.

And that’s bad because ... ?

1 202 224-3121 is the congressional switchboard. Call, call, and call. Call every week, canvass and vote.

R508, well it's not good for the manatees, but otherwise . . .

The Evergreen trees in this area are turning brown. A local Botanist commented (radio show) this is because of the ongoing drought in this region, and it'll only get worse because the trees' roots no longer have an adequate reservoir of moisture from which to draw.

Insects and diseases and such are not being killed off in the winters. The winter is too warm. Evergreens are dying as a result. Chemical products are not working. Add in invasive species and there will be horrible losses to our forests and ecosystems. There already is such damage.

We're too far gone now. Scientists are now focused on Climate Engineering, anything to lessen the Earth's temperature.

twenty years tops

Here's a map of the world if the ice cap melted. Florida, completely gone and most of the deep South.

nearly every large city in the world will be severely affected

Maybe then I'll finally have beachfront property.

no, because there will be no sand, just a windswept coast

This is an insane hurricane/typhoon season.

Wonderful R515. The South washed away like they deserve to be. Hopefully, they won’t make it out of there before it happens.

It's so messed up how Republicans care about the well being of fetuses, but as soon as a kid is born he's on his own basically in a world of economic uncertainty and impending climactic destruction. They really don't seem to care what happens to future generations.

I've lived through the over population panic, the ozone panic, the current under population panic, I'm done with bullshit panics.

Over-Population is still an issue.

The entire world got together and did something about the Ozone Hole, so there's not as much need to panic anymore.

There is no 'under-population' panic, what are you even talking about?

R522 is a troll

I just hope I'm dead before the giant bugs show up.

[quote]I just hope I'm dead before the giant bugs show up.

[bold]Giant mosquitoes multiply in the Carolinas following Hurricane Florence[/bold]

Warmer wetter weather=disease

More hurricanes heading your way, USA.

Meanwhile the Maldives sinks underwater, which is depressing.

WaPo warning of the day.

Too late, we have an ignorant POTUS and his Deplorable that deny climate change and pulled out of the Paris Agreement.

[quote] As much as I detest Trump this was happening way before him. Like at the beginning of the industrial revolution.

R32 Blake called newton the devil.

At this point, I've given up on this issue. No one cared soon enough. It's a done deal. Now, we just deal with the consequences. That is honestly what I'm doing at this point. Just trying to figure out how it will impact me and my family where we currently live.

We've already lost most of Spring and Autumn. We go straight from hot to cold and cold to hot now. The vegetation is already acting strange. It blooms earlier than it should. The leaves stay on the tree longer. We sometimes get two growing seasons for some perennials. The insects have started increasing due to the lack of hard cold in the winter and wetter, warmer weather. A big problem is that I live smack in the middle of the breadbasket of the country. We grow everything. We used to have the magical mix of weather and top soil to feed the country. As that shifts north, toward Canada, the ideal weather will take place in an area without the topsoil necessary for the crops. That topsoil was scraped about 12,000 years ago by glaciation. It's actually where our deep topsoil came from. Try growing corn and wheat and soybeans, etc. in two inches of topsoil without degrading the soil so completely that it won't have the nutrients to grow a crop the following year. Yeah, that's not going to work, so we can no longer feed the country.

I won't be inundated with water like the coasts, so I'm not as worried about that aspect. But, if the St. Lawrence enlarges and the rain patterns shift enough, I supposed the Great Lakes will eventually rise, too. I think I'm far enough inland for it not to matter. Where I live is one of the highest points and used to be a beachhead on old, pre-glacial Lake Michigan. We would have been dry even as the glaciers receded, so we'll probably be okay this time.

But, speaking of glaciation, the warming of the North Atlantic is going to be a problem that none of us in North America or Europe will escape. The warm water flow moving north is what keeps the glaciers in Canada. Once that stops, which it is currently in the process of doing, those glaciers that put places like Chicago, New York, and London under miles of ice will again advance. That fact is one of the reasons we stopped referring to it as 'global warming'. Idiots couldn't understand that the effects of warming the globe overall was to create a situation where wild weather swings would happen that included cold and that, ultimately, 'global warming' would lead to the next Ice Age.

On the bright side, after a couple billion humans die, the earth might have a fighting chance of repairing itself.

R529, it's already too late.

[quote]But, speaking of glaciation, the warming of the North Atlantic is going to be a problem that none of us in North America or Europe will escape.

it's actually likely that our winters in the more temperate north east coast of north america will become harsher

R533, twenty good years left at most

R534, I know. I went on to explain that the loss of that warming of the waters of the North Atlantic will unleash the Canadian glaciers that once reached beyond the tip of Lake Michigan. Those 'Storms of the Century' that hit the mid-Atlantic and Eastern coast are going to turn into 'Storms of the Year'.

It's December 3rd and it's pouring down. As in rain. Not snow. It doesn't snow anymore during winter here in Norway. It's disturbing.

I agree it’s already too late. There’s going to be mass climate migration within the next twenty years as the coasts are flooded and temperatures rise. A huge amount of the US will be unlivable. Underdeveloped countries are going to experience suffering on scales never before seen. Billions will have food shortages and lack of water, 1000x worse than they currently have it. Desert peoples and equatorial peoples are fucked. You think it’s bad there now? lol. Everyone will have to move toward the poles. You’d better start moving there now, in fact.

I'm afraid you're likely correct

Yes it has tipped, now we need to stop worrying about stopping it and worry about what we're going to do to adapt and mitigate the effects. Like new food strategies and living conditions. No we don't stop pollution controls etc but focus on what to do next.

Oh, I thought the title of the thread was, "It's Time to Start PACKING!"

To go where, thought I?

We are past stopping it. We are now at mitigating it and its impact on our lives.

The time to stop it was 50 years ago.