BBC Mini-Series ‘His Dark Materials’

Here's the source. Didn't seem right to put Miranda getting a standing ovation as the main image for this show.

I look forward to it.

[italic]The Golden Compass[/italic] had some great casting, but was a bit stiff. This material is so rich it deserves another go.

We used to call an alethiometer a "ouija board."

I really like the books. I hope they stay somewhat true to them.

Miranda is a shit actor - why do people cast him just because of hype??????

I'm really just in it for James McAvoy. Could give a shit who else is cast.

Lin-Manuel Miranda ? WTF?

Who plays Serafina Pekkala? I wish they could cast Eva Green as Serafina she was the only good thing about that awful movie adaption of the book she was amazing.

r8 My money would be on Georgina Campbell playing Serafina. She's pretty fab and was seen recently in Black Mirror and SyFy's Krypton.

James McAvoy <3

Georgina Campbell is gorgeous. Is Ruth Wilson playing Mrs Coulter?

r11 Yup.

R5 I disagree. I saw him in an episode of House before he was famous, and I thought he was great.

Is <3 supposed to be James' cute butt, R10?

Please don't fuck this up.

Please don't fuck this up.

Please don't fuck this up.

Yay! I hope they do as good a job as they did with Jonathan Strange.

r16 I liked that show but I caught it on a list of the most expensive British TV flops some time ago. I think the ratings weren't good at all.

It was a weird show, wouldn't surprise me if people didn't tune in. I feel like people have a low tolerance for magic in shows for some reason - fantasy readers will watch but nonfiction/history is much much more popular. Fantasy readers are a much smaller percentage of the population.

I read the book when it came out and loved it.

<3 = Love

Georgina Campbell will play Adele Starminster in 'His Dark Materials' according to IMDB

journalist Adele Starminster (Georgina Campbell) at a glittering society party where she first hears about the sinister General Oblation Board.

I don't think a remember that character from the books, R20?

r20 I see they updated her credit since yesterday when I checked it. Too bad she's not playing a bigger part.

Does Lin use his big PR cock to get roles?

I don't remember that character too

It's a multi-season series, right? Isn't this "season" is just first book?

r25 Probably, yes. Unless it bombs both critically and ratings-wise and they decide to scrap it after the first season. Although with the talent involved, they'd probably order at least one additional season even in that case, just to save everyone's face.

I wish it was done for Netflix directly. BBC won't show all the nudity and orgies depicted in the books, will they?

r27 It'll definitely be family-friendly, unfortunately for us perverts. This has been greenlit since 2015 and they've been taking their sweet time with the script, which is another thing that wouldn't happen if it was a Netflix project.

Orgies? What?

Are they at least going to not dumb down the atheist themes this time?

r30 Unfortunately, they'll probably have to, unless they want to be accused of wasting taxpayer money on "atheist propaganda".

“My name is Serafina Pekkala. I am the queen of the witches of Lake Enara, which is in another world.”

Welcome to #HisDarkMaterials, @Ruta_Gedmintas 🦢

More info here

Nobody will ever be better than Eva Green

Teaser trailer.

Looks... small somehow. The BBC isn't the best when it comes to cutting epic (teaser) trailers, though.

[quote]Dafne Keen (“Logan”) plays Lyra

The name [bold]Dafne[/bold] sounds like someone vomited while typing

To me the trailer comes of like a Doctor Who special.

Sorry, comes OFF like a Doctor Who special

Here’s the first teaser for the BBC’s His Dark Materials series

Ruth Wilson and McAvoy >>> Nicole Flopman and Daniel Craig

Excuse me R38, but where the hell are the daemons? Is it just raw footage and they haven’t CGI them in yet?

r40 Most likely, yes.

Looks underwhelming.

They kill God at the end, right?

I don't remember the ending.

[quote]They kill God at the end, right?

And about fucking time.

r44 I've noticed a lot of people - myself included - can't recall the ending of those books. I just remember feeling deflated.

Well the ending of the movie completely did away with the real ending of The Golden Compass so anyone who knows only that is already screwed. I wish the stage production had come to the US, it was magnificent despite having to be reductive of three books into two nights of theater. I’m really surprised they didn’t at least include some Iorek in the preview to get people excited.

LMM is playing Lee Scoresby??? Bizarre casting.

Sam Elliott played it in that woeful movie, but he was right for the role.

Ruth Wilson will be an improvement over Kidman.

Ruth Williamson would be better, r48.

Demons? There are demons?

Dæmons.

[quote]Dæmons are the external physical manifestation of a person's 'inner-self' that takes the form of an animal. Dæmons have human intelligence, are capable of human speech—regardless of the form they take—and usually behave as though they are independent of their humans. Pre-pubescent children's dæmons can change form voluntarily, almost instantaneously, to become any creature, real or imaginary. During their adolescence a person's dæmon undergoes "settling", an event in which that person's dæmon permanently and involuntarily assumes the form of the animal which the person most resembles in character. Dæmons are usually of the opposite sex to their human, though same-sex dæmons do exist.

^^^ I love that Leonardo!

Love McAvoy and Wilson

Teaser.

R55 Oh my God, the special effects look amazing! What a relief! I can hardly wait!

They need to announce the release date, though.

Do you re-read the books before this airs?

Loved the books. High hopes for this!

r56 They do look amazing! It's crazy to me that we're at a point where they can nail CG fur like that on a TV production.

Every discussion around this series elsewhere (and also here) inevitably mentions how the third book falls apart, so I don't know how they'll be able to avoid that. If they even get renewed that far, that is. Part of me hopes they stay in the main world longer and just make up some drama there. It's like The Handmaid's Tale there so why not explore that more, seeing how it's so germane to our own world right now?

Philip Pullman @PhilipPullman

Here's a glimpse. Looking very good, I think.

"All his movements were large and perfectly balanced, like those of a wild animal, and when he appeared in a room like this, he seemed a wild animal held in a cage too small for it.”

I wonder if Lyra and Pan will constantly be debating in the balloon (in whispers) whether or not Lee Scoresby is gay. "He's got a lispy high voice, and he loves musical theatre!" "He's straight-identified, I tell you!"

Comic-Con trailer.

Premiering this fall.

Why is the BBC funding this adolescent rubbish?

The BBC is funded by poor British taxpayers.

I can't get over that the woman playing Ms. Coulter isn't blond. SHE IS SUPPOSED TO BE BLOND. WIth hair that matches her golden monkey!

His name is a turn off. No thank you.

r66 Whose name?

Great news!

[quote]Andrew Scott, known to many as the “hot priest” from season 2 of “Fleabag,” has joined the cast of the “His Dark Materials” adaptation at HBO.

[quote]The announcement was made via a tweet on the series’ official Twitter account which shows Scott on set with Lin Manuel Miranda, who is set to play Lee Scoresby in the forthcoming show. Scott will play the character of Colonel John Parry, also known as Jopari. “His Dark Materials” is set to premiere later this year and has already been renewed for a second season.

Why oh why must LMM invade these quintessential British properties like Mary Poppins and HDM? Whoever heard of a Puerto Rican Cowboy, and that was after my disbelief of an Edwardian Puerto Rican chimney-sweep.

Anyone see or remember the two-part production of HIS DARK MATERIALS done by the National Theatre Company in London in 2003? I saw it without knowing what it was about and absolutely loved it. Hope this series is as good.

New trailer.

Damn, the way that ermine moves its head at 0:10 is spooky. So lifelike.

I am so worried that LMM will ruin this for me.

I don't really have an opinion on LMM, but I think he looks kinda handsome at 0:36 in r71's trailer.

I'm in it for James McAvoy

They don't kill God in the book, they set him free from a glass casket and he thanks them for it.

Mrs Coulter wasn't always blonde -- she was described as having "sleek black hair" at least once in the books. She must have been friends with Miss Clairol. I think Ruth looks amazing as her.

I hope they do get to the third book because I want to see the gayngels.

The latest trailer looks really good.

Premieres November 3rd on BBC and November 4th on HBO.

I have never seen so many trailers for a TV show before. But this is the official one, apparently.

Looks. So. Good!

I started rereading the books when the adaptation was announced, and now I just have the third one left. It’s kind of a slog from what I remember.

Huh, I didn't find it a slog at all. Maybe you should try The Babysitter's Club? Maybe that's on your level, I'm thinking?

Gurl, you are MEAN.

[quote] I feel like people have a low tolerance for magic in shows for some reason

I don't know why you would think that. Game of Thrones did spectacularly, and The Magicians has done quite well.

Premieres tonight on BBC and tomorrow on HBO!

LM Miranda is popular in the U.K. It really added luster to his star when he showed up at a pub in Wales and had a sing along.

R86 They don’t want to stone him for what he did to King a George III?

First episode was very high on style, but somewhat lacking in soul. Ironic, seeing how a lot of it revolves around daemons being externalised representations of their souls. Amazing CG on animals, especially when it comes to fur, though not so much with feathers. Honestly, that ermine looks completely lifelike at times. Kudos to the CG team for slaving over this; I can only imagine how much work it takes.

Great shaky camerawork, acting is okay, script could be better. We'll see. It's all a bit lifeless gorgeousness right now.

R88 This Leonardo is always referenced as being HDM daemonesque, so it’s interesting that the ermine stood out for you.

R89 This is a great article that mentions the influence of the painting and others in Pullman’s conceptualizing of daemons. It’s about four paragraphs down from the full face photo of him.

r89 Ha, nice coincidence! I think that one is just really well-rendered because it's the main character's daemon and will be appearing more than any other animal. That lady's golden monkey is nothing to scoff at either.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the opening credits are [italic]gorgeous[/italic] and also that I wish I hadn't read the books as the mystery would be far more intriguing to me that way.

I've read the "Book of Dust" prequel, and all I could think for the first couple of minutes was "... THAT'S NOT HOW IT HAPPENED!"

I'm in the middle of the second book in the second trilogy.

The movie wasn't that good, but I feel like it did a better job of casting. And better Aletheometer design.

Wow, very happy with it on its inaugural outing. Kids have been great, they chose wisely while casting all the leads. The sense of foreboding around characters like Roger and Bobby has been palatable, I don’t remember if there is a crypt scene in the book, but it was an excellent foreshadowing.

The only criticism is that in group shots the majority of people seem to be deamonless and it could be confusing to those who don’t know the story why they seem like they don’t have them. I am nervous about LMM who sticks put like a sore thumb in previews and seems to have wandered in from another show. Of course the armoured bears are my most anticipated element. Feeling really good about this and hope it brings new admirers to such an important literary work.

[quote]The only criticism is that in group shots the majority of people seem to be deamonless and it could be confusing to those who don’t know the story why they seem like they don’t have them.

Agreed. I found myself constantly looking around for other people's daemons.

The music sounds like it was lifted from every fantasy movie of the last 20 years.

James looks damn sexy in it.

[quote] Huh, I didn't find it a slog at all. Maybe you should try The Babysitter's Club? Maybe that's on your level, I'm thinking?

Oh, [italic]burn.[/italic] Mary.

I felt mixed about it.

Good parts:

*I liked Lyra and Roger quite a bit, and also the man who played the Master of Jordan College. They were all new to me. Lyra is quite good, and seems much like I imagined her from the novels.

*And Will Keen (Michael Adeane from "The Crown") is in it, and he's sex on a stick.

*It keeps the breathless and exciting pace of the plot.

*The CGI for Pantalaimon is excellent.

*James McAvoy is sexy and a fine actor, and Ruth Wilson is a fine actor too.

The downsides are:

*it wasn't very artistically designed, and looked a little cheap. The look of Oxford was pretty dull, and a lot of the CGI looked exactly like CGI (especially the airships and the daemon statues on the Oxford colleges)

*Neither James McAvoy nor Ruth Wilson look like they the characters they play in the books. Lord Azreal is supposed to be big and commanding, and though McAvoy is muscular, he's short and doesn't seem physically commanding, and he doesn't have the sternness of Azrael in the books. (Daniel Craig was perfect casting.) The books are inconsistent as to the color of Mrs. Coulter's hair, so i do not mind Mrs. Coulter with dark hair; but the books are all consistent in that she is supposed to be remarkably beautiful, and Ruth Wilson is not at all beautiful.

Does anyone else have trouble with video-audio synching when watching Amazon Prime? I tried both Jack Ryan and His Dark Materials, and the audio was out of synch. I even unplugged my router to reset it. No problems with Netflix streaming, though.

It's not on Amazon Prime. It's on HBO.

Aren't the gyptians supposed to be the name for the Romani on Lyra's world? It seemed weird having them not be Romani, but instead a mix of races, including black, and very pale Caucasian.

I access HBO via my Amazon Prime account, FWW.

R102, I found that weird/odd too.

And also really was bothered by the lack of daemons in the crowd scenes, particularly at the end on the blimp.

Has anyone else read the first book in the Book Of Dust series (the sequel books)? It details the flood and how Lyra came to Cambridge. The second book in that series isn't a prequel, but a sequel, taking place when Lyra is in college after the events of the "His Dark Materials" trilogy. And it's very … odd. Like the epic events of the third book (the battle, god dying) had almost zero impact on anything.

r102 I think they're all sorts in the book as well. The travelling community in Britain is not strictly Roma, like in the rest of Europe. In fact, it's argued they don't have those ethnic roots at all.

The Gyptians of the books aren't strictly based on the Roma, even if the name is similar, their culture seems to be at least partly based on the canal-boat people of Britain.

God didn't die at the end of the third book. The Authority, which was an angel pretending to be God, died.

Would this series hold any appeal for those who haven't read the books?

Travelers & Roma are two different groups. They don’t consider themselves the same as each other & don’t hang out.

Well, "gyptians" (their name in the series) sounds quite a lot like "gypsies," the old name for the Roma/Romani in the UK.

[quote] Travelers & Roma are two different groups. They don’t consider themselves the same as each other & don’t hang out.

That's not true. There are some groups of travelers in the UK that are entirely Romani.

Ruth Wilson is such a ham.

When reading the books way back when, I pictured Catherine Zeta-Jones or Nicole Kidman as Mrs Coulter. She’s chic and glamorous and beautiful.

Wasn't this a movie a while ago with Nicole Kidman? I remember people walking around with their spirit animals and a bunch of steam punk looking equipment. And snow, alot of snow I think

[quote] Wasn't this a movie a while ago with Nicole Kidman?

If only it were possible to look it up somehow!

I must be misremembering then because I thought The Authority was keeping god locked away and he was old and he died. The Authority ended up dying too.

Anyway, it didn't seem to matter much.

[quote] I must be misremembering then because I thought The Authority was keeping god locked away and he was old and he died. The Authority ended up dying too.

You are misremembering.

in The Amber Spyglass, we learn Metatron, an angel who becomes the Regent of Heaven, keeps The Authority locked up in the crystal prison. The Authority was the first angel, who was created when Dust condensed. He tried to tell the other subsequent angels he was their creator (and that he was God the Creator), but this was a lie: he did not create them.

The anicent and feeble Authority dissolved into nothingness when he was let out of his crystal prison. Again, he is (and never was) not God the Creator: Pullman is explicit that The Authority was just pretending to be. (If there IS a God the Creator in Pullman's universe, He has yet to appear in the novels.) Metatron was himself destroyed when Lord Azrael and Mrs. Coulter united to pull him down into an abyss, where all three cease to exist.

Thanks, R116. Somehow I guess I ended om conflating The Authority with God.

I wonder if this TV series will do all of book one in season one, and then continue on to books 2 and 3... and I wonder if they'll keep the gay angel lovers if they ever make it to book 3.

[quote]Would this series hold any appeal for those who haven't read the books?

r108 Yes, arguably even more so because you'll be surprised by the mysteries and the twists!

Strong numbers.

[quote]‘His Dark Materials’ Debuts Bright For HBO With Strong Viewership Almost Matching Record-Breaking ‘Chernobyl’

[quote][It] snagged 700,000 viewers across HBO and the channel’s various platforms for its well promoted premiere on the AT&T-owned outlet. While not nearing the massive numbers of the 7.2 million who tuned in to watch its UK debut Sunday, the stateside results are one of the best debuts HBO has seen on a Monday.

LMM is completely miscast as Scorsby, who is supposed to be an older rodeo cowboy. Sam Elliott was much more like it. I think Pullman had Tommie Lee Jones in mind for the role back when the film was made, but I'm sure no one wanted to put up with that ornery cuss.

The film THE GOLDEN COMPASS was indeed flat, directed by someone (Chris Weitz) who had no previous experience with fantasy material (his best known directorial effort had been ABOUT A BOY). Daniel Craig was the right physical type for Asriel, but he lacked the kind of maniacal obsessiveness needed for the part. I'm not the biggest Daniel Day-Lewis fan, but he would have been perfect. Kidman was OK but I don't find her a particularly imposing presence. The young girl who played Lyra was awful - obnoxious, off-putting and completely unengaging. The film stops well before the ending of the first book.

Looking forward to watching this series, though. I love Ruth Wilson, but agree with the poster above that she is not the kind of beauty that Pullman describes. But that's minor next to the WTF casting of Miranda. If they wanted diversity casting, there are plenty of older actors of color who would be just fine.

R120 I’m glad I’m not the only one worried about LMM stopping this thing dead in the water. How he was even considered for the part baffles me?

I doubt it will stop the series in the water, R121, but it does look like the work of some "woke" casting director. Or LMM has a very aggressive agent. Anyone who knows the books will be scratching their heads, though I'm sure many watching the series will never have read them and won't care.

I was glad to see some good comments about the girl playing Lyra. That was a real problem with the 2007 film. I would also agree that McAvoy is not great casting as Asriel, but he might be able to overcome that to some degree.

But seriously, a Puerto Rican cowboy, who thought that made sense? I could go with an African American cowboy, but PR?

Suspend your disbelief some more, darlings. You buy into the talking daemons, but a boricua cowboy is a bridge too far for you? 😅

^^^ Yes, if his lack of acting skills can’t transcend his ethnic background. It was the same thing with his Puerto Rican chimney sweep. I think he’s a brilliant creator, but a terrible actor.

Christ, LMM is cochairing the Met Fashion Gala next year?

I really like Ruth Wilson, but can you imagine how brilliant Tilda Swinton would have been as Mrs. Coulter?

Swinton is really too old to play Coulter, and she's not really a great beauty either, which is how Pullman describes Coulter. Kidman was more appropriate in the looks department, but acting-wise Wilson is better in the role. Honestly, a younger Angelina Jolie would have been ideal.

Angelina could not have acted the part to save her life.

She is a movie star, not an actor.

No Kate Bush?

2 days till the next installment

I pictured Natalie Dormer as Mrs. Coulter when I reread the books a couple of years ago. To me she has the perfect mix of sweetness and danger for the role, but Wilson i’m sure will also be excellent.

McAvoy looks yummy but he’s totally miscast as Asriel, who is supposed to be an intimidating dickhead. Jamie Dornan would have been a good choice.

I'm glad I haven't read the books because I'm pleased with the series and don't mind the casting. McAvoy is a fine actor and he's sexy in this. Jamie Dornan can't act.

r133 So what intrigues you the most one episode in?

James McAvoy isn't well cast but nonetheless he takes acting honours among the main characters.

Why did Lyra go on that dirigible without any of her luggage?

Someone related, but do we know the origin of airships being a shorthand to signify a parallel world in fiction? I know Fringe did it, but that obviously came later than these books. It's such a recognizable trope, but you know what, it totally works! I could watch them zip around all day long on my screen. Love them.

r133 Jamie acted very well in The Fall. Go watch that.

Dornan was one note bland Psycho in The Fall.

Okay, we might not rate Dornan as an actor, but let's not take The Fall away from the poor bastard. It's about the only respectable thing on his resume.

R136 I always took the dirigible heavy parallel worlds as a result of the Hindenburg crash being an important time break in our world that didn’t happen in other places. The fact that it was caught on film and audio, sealed the fate of it ending as a viable form of transportation that was abandoned here. Also 1937 is such an important time frame as Europe is about to go headlong into the lead up to WWII and there is the “what if this event didn’t happen“ possible scenario that could radically change the course of history.

Have they explicitly said they're going to do all of book one in season 1 (the movie stopped short), and continue with Book 2 in the next season, and book 3 after that?

Or is this a "one and done" and they're just going to adapt the first book?

(because, let's face it, the other two books are going to be more expensive and less 'popular' to adapt)

r141 Three seasons, each covering one book.

[quote]The upcoming BBC and HBO co-production adaptation of Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy will be largely sticking to adapting one book per season, according to showrunner Jack Thorne. But that doesn't mean you won't see little hints at what's to come in this TV series telling of the beloved fantasy series.

[quote]"Largely it’s one book per season," he said during the His Dark Materials' TV Critics' Association press tour panel. "There are a few treats I’ve stolen from other books. ... The whole story of three books and how can we celebrate them in the best possible, and sometimes that involved moving certain elements forward."

And as per r68, it's already been renewed for the second season.

Has this been mentioned yet? Called on Friday, started on Monday. 👀

[bold]James McAvoy reveals he wasn’t the first choice to play Lord Asriel in His Dark Materials[/bold]

[quote]“I think they'd possibly been let down by a couple of people last minute,” the Scottish actor said

The movie failed miserably because

SPOILER ALERT***********************************************************************

They failed to include the actual end of the book, because a child dies and they didn’t think they could launch a franchise with such a “down” ending and thus gutted the whole emotional arc of the first book. My understanding is they are not going to enviserate the story this time and all of book one will be this season.

They already wrapped filming for season two, the need for continuity and thus not returning to film a year later with pubescent child actors hitting grow spurts necessitated the quick turn around time. They seem pretty committed to doing the whole thing, but I’m wondering if they are waiting to see about filming book three as one or two seasons ala final books of LOTR, Harry Potter and Twilight. If it’s going well they might do two seasons, if not maybe streamline and add extra episodes for the lengthy Amber Spyglass. That’s my take anyways.

Dornan is also good in A PRIVATE WAR as a war zone photographer. His reportedly listless acting in the GREY movies did him no favors. Perhaps he'll reinvent himself like Robert Pattinson who was a total bore in the TWILIGHT movies.

When I read the books I kept seeing Mark Strong as Asriel, but that was a while ago and he's too old now.

I can see Henry Cavill as Lord Asriel.

No, R147, Cavill may be an asshole in real life for all I know, but he can't play an asshole on the screen; I've never seen him show the kind of fire or testosterone required for the role. Asriel is a badass and an asshole, an angry, obsessive, thoughtless, adulterous, neglectful of hid child, total sumbitch. Yes, he's brilliant and in the right in some ways, and monumentally brave and quite the badass, he'll brave Polar winters to get what he wants... but he'll also kill an innocent child in the same cause.

Daniel Craig was actually good casting in the earlier movie. I don't think McAvoy can give us the whole man, although he's played off-center obsessive scientists enough times that he'll definitely get that part right.

Cavill played a bad guy in the last Mission Impossible movie, in my opinion, he was pretty good. So, yeah, he can. He can act better than Dornan.

Cavill and Dornan are the same level of pretty boys with limited acting ability. Saying Cavill was pretty good in Mission Impossible is a stretch and half, he acquitted himself okay.

I just don't see Satan possibilities in Cavill, R149.

How many here have read all of the first three books?

How many have started the second trilogy?

I read all three books, and liked them very much.

I lasted about three chapters into the second trilogy.

R153, book one of the second trilogy is a prequel. It's basically all about the flood and Lyra ending up at the college.

Book two of the second trilogy is a ten year jump from the end of the last trilogy. Lyra is in college, has lost any ability to read the aletheometer, and is basically "returned to normal" for her teen years and as she turned 20. Which seems weird.

Well, ouch.

[quote]‘His Dark Materials’ Loses 1.5M Viewers On Its Second Outing For The BBC

Was that whole bit about stepping into another world in book one? I don't remember it at all. I thought that entire concept was only in the second book.

I got so pissy when that smartphone appeared, but then realised he was in a parallel world.

Is that reporter dead now after her daemon got crushed?

The actress playing Miss Coulter... her upper lip bugs the hell out of me. She reminds me of those creatures in that Twilight Zone episode.

Yeah, her underbite jumped OUT in the second episode.

They're certainly not making clear the prohibition of other people touching your daemon.

And I don't remember that "killing the journalist by crushing her butterfly daemon" scene, but it's been more than a decades since I read it.

They paid lip service to how daemons can't leave the proximity of their person, but they seem to be playing very fast and loose with what constitutes "too far away".

.

You leave Ruth Wilson alone, you cows, I love her. I've seen her on stage twice now and she's a seriously talented actress.

Mhm, some of those birdy daemons at Oxford were flying quite high, I've noticed.

Also, that hooded crow looked quite believable, but that raven... not so much. Guess it's harder to animate all-black shiny feathers.

R152, I’ve read the first trilogy and thought it was terrific. I’ve read other Philip Pullman books, too, and enjoyed them, but I’ve never wanted to read the second Dark Materials trilogy. I don’t think he needed to do more with the story.

Well, book one of the second trilogy is pretty underwhelming. It's the story of the flood, and honestly not a lot happens.

I'm halfway through book two, which takes place AFTER, and it's apparent that book one existed primarily to introduce some characters that are key in book two. They're a mystery afoot, and a resurgent Magisterium, and a pathetic run-down "resistance"... but again, not much has happened, and it's just weird the way Lyra has been neutered from who she was in the first trilogy, unable to read the aletheometer, "forgetting" much of what happened other than referring to her "adventure in the North", and thinking about her first kiss with Will and missing him occasionally. It's especially weird to have her denying the existence of magic or the mystical just sentences after she casually mentions being in the land of the dead. This book could go either way. And it'll be at least a year or two wait before the third and final out, when we finally get to see if it was worth it or not.

I mean, he's clearly going some where. I just have no idea where that is yet.

Didn't know about Jonathan Strange r16 thanks for mentioning it. I'll look for it.

[quote] Was that whole bit about stepping into another world in book one?

No, that's an add-on. The only travel between dimensions in the first book takes place at the very end up north.

[quote] And I don't remember that "killing the journalist by crushing her butterfly daemon" scene, but it's been more than a decades since I read it.

It's not in the first book, either. In the book, Mrs. Coulter finds out the journalist at her party is not supposed to be there, and she tells her she'll never find work again as a journalist anywhere. But she's not killed.

Also don’t recall Mrs Coulter being slightly off her rocker

Mrs. Coulter is a very angry person, but she uses a honey-sweet personality to deal with children. The cost of maintaining that façade is very high for her.

"...and it's just weird the way Lyra has been neutered from who she was in the first trilogy, unable to read the aletheometer"

Well at the end of the original trilogy Lyra is told she'll forget how to use the thing, and will have to re-learn it by hard slog and studying. It's never explained why she's magically able to read the thing for a while, or whether all children are better with it than adults, or why she forgets. It's just one of those things the reader accepts without thinking about it too hard, and IMHO the author is making a mistake of bringing that issue up again in the second set of books. If he brings the forgetting into play, he'll have to explain her earlier temporary ability.

As yes, I highly recommend "Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell", both the book and the BBC miniseries. Excellent! And unlike "Dark Materials" it's a Fantasy book/show for adults, the kind of adults who appreciate history and/or scholarship.

[quote] Perhaps he'll reinvent himself like Robert Pattinson who was a total bore in the TWILIGHT movies.

The difference is that Pattinson can act, and always could reasonably well. Acting was never the problem with Twilight. Whereas Dornan is handsome and hulking and that’s about it.

Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell was a good book made into a bad TV show.

Yes, I recall reading Norrell was among one of the most expensive flops ever for the BBC. Watched it when it came out and it really was pretty soulless. A bit like this TV series - it's all a bit dry and cold thus far. Perhaps a bit of humour here and there in the script would help, to take away the self-important tone?

I was worried about people jumping ship before the story could get going. A Netflix-esque full season drop would have probably been a better fit for the material.

[quote]Because of child labor laws, the producers couldn’t use 14-year-old Dafne Keen for every scene in season 1, the way Lyra’s arc plays out in that initial book. So, they had to find other threads to follow.

Fucking hell, I had no idea.

I was totally expecting to really like the book, but it was not the case so i only read the first one.

Visually it looks good but i didn't like the story

Just read, explicitly, in the second book of the second trilogy that Lyra is "Blondish".

So this TV adaptation isn't accurate in that respect .

Am not liking Ruth Wilson at all. For me, she has not been great since Jane Eyre

I'm agreeing regarding Wilson as Mrs. Coulter. Her take is all steel, crazy and scary without any hint of charm. Kidman as least gave the character some allure while still being evil.

Wilson plays Coulter like she suffers from PTSD. One moment sad and melancholic and then the next wild outburst of rage and anger.

And, I have not read the books, but would it be too obvious that Coulter is from a different dimension and her daemon is just a very well trained monkey (and that's why they can be far away from each other)?

I haven’t read the books either. I saw the movie when it came out, but I don’t remember much about it, just that it was very fantastical; much less grubby and "real" than this version.

Like r179, I’m trying to figure out the relationship between Mrs. Coulter and the monkey, specifically why she herself was acting like a monkey when she attacked the Gyptian boy. So weird.

[quote]specifically why she herself was acting like a monkey when she attacked the Gyptian boy. So weird.

Man, that shit was so unnerving to watch - a human acting as an ape all of a sudden. Kudos to Wilson for eliciting that reaction in me.

Minor book spoilers, but I think they’re setting up Mrs Coulter to be severed in the show (as in, cut away from her daemon like they’re doing to the kids). It didn’t happen in the book, and in order to make it fly they’ll have to make other changes as well. Not sure I like it.

I honestly don't remember Coulter and her daemon being able to separate in the book.

And I distinctly remember the scene (also in the movie) of her slapping her daemon and seeing the hand mark across her own face.

So no, she's not from the other world. She's very much a part of the story's world, and that's her real daemon.

Perhaps sociopaths don't have such a strong (emotional) connection to their daemons? Hence them being able to be apart.

Where were all those police officers' daemons in that aerial shot of Jordan College that opened the episode?

I want to like the show but I'm just not enjoying watching it. I have huge trouble caring about Lyra in any way. I listened to the original trilogy as audiobooks years ago and I had trouble connecting with Lyra then as well. I know Dafne Keen was basically seen as the second coming when she did Logan but I don't think she's that great of an actress. Especially next to Anne-Marie Duff who's doing an excellent job. I didn't read the whole thread but I noticed a few posts upthread people were disliking Ruth Wilson and I agree 100 %. Watching her in this show is a chore. She's evil in a very one-dimension and boring way and I just don't want to see her. And, yes, Nicole Kidman did a way better job.

At this point I'm feeling very meh but I guess I'll give it another chance since there WAS something extremely charming about the books.

How many episodes are there in this season?

r186 Eight.

"Perhaps sociopaths don't have such a strong (emotional) connection to their daemons? "

I always wondered about how people with mental illnesses interact with their daemons in that world. Do people with BPD blame their daemons for everything they don't like? Do schizophrenics think their daemons are sent by the CIA to kill them? Do neurotics hate their daemons, or consider them embarrassing because they project their poor self-esteem onto the daemon?

As for Mrs. Coulter, I vaguely recall that her relationship with her daemon was off in the books, and that it could go further away from her than normal. It's probably meant to show that she's on the soulless or sociopathic side of things.

Dafne : if Lucas Haas had a daughter:

LOL, r189. That’s kind of uncanny.

I hate how only the main characters have daemons. You can actually see spaces near the minor characters where perhaps the animals were supposed be added in post.

That’s why the BBC sucks. Always cheap.

[quote][bold]What kind of reader were you as a child? Which childhood books and authors stick with you most?[/bold]

[quote]The Point Horror books were a feature, Roald Dahl was a champion, but Philip Pullman’s “His Dark Materials” trilogy defined me as a young reader. I lived between those pages. I remember the physical ache of wanting to be deep in those worlds. I even wrote to Pullman asking if I could play Lyra. Still waiting.

Man, she nailed it with that "physical ache" line. I wish ageing hadn't diminished my imagination and excitement, because that's exactly how I felt when I was reading those books as a kid.

The problem with the show comes partly from the books being for kids and teens. I read the original trilogy (as audiobooks) when I was 30 and I had huge trouble caring about Lyra, partly probably because I was an adult male. It's even more evident in this show since I now care even less about Keen's Lyra. The world in itself sure is interesting but so far none of the characters really move me. I actually enjoyed the characters in the movie much more than these ones. I do like McAvoy's wife though, I'd never realized she's got such a huge presence. Next to her Dafne Keen seems like a total amateur.

BBC and HBO are trying to turn a book series written with children and teens in mind into adult material and that is problematic. I've now tried to finish episode three twice and so far I've always suddenly found something more interesting to watch instead.

[quote] BBC and HBO are trying to turn a book series written with children and teens in mind into adult material and that is problematic.

IMO I believe they rather go for the next Harry Potter craze than the next adult Game of Thrones craze. For me turning into adult material would mean nudity, cursing, gore, etc.

Enter LMM. Begin DL meltdown. 😄

And you know what? These kinds of cartoonish characters are exactly what this show needs more of, to give it a more fantastical feel. I loved that Pan turned into a polar fox because ... it's the north and it's cold!

Have you noticed Wilson's demon never speaks? Does she not allow him to, or what? Also, I forget - the sex of the daemon as always the opposite of the person it belong to, correct? Wonder what it's like for homos and trans people...

The sex of the daemon is usually the opposite of the human, but sometimes it's the same. The author mentioned this in the books, but never explained the implications.

Like I've said, the whole daemon thing doesn't bear too much thinking about. And I realize the whole thing is being made with a BBC budget and not a Star Wars budget, but they REALLY need to make more of an effort to include everyone's daemons! Right now, it's only the principal players' who are ever actually on film. It may sound like a small thing, but there's such a thing as "worldbuilding", and you can't make a Fantasy world read as believable unless you carry through with stuff like that.

It's not a small thing at all, it's incredibly frustrating because you instinctively keep checking out for the animals left and right. On the other hand, imagine if every single person on screen had their own daemon and they were as varied as the animal kingdom is? You wouldn't be able to focus on the dialogue, and some of Pan's specialness would be lost as well.

Loved Lee's daemon; super expressive face on her.

Can someone explain why Xtians decried the movie in 2007 and called it evil?

[quote]Several key themes of the novels, such as the rejection of religion and the abuse of power in a fictionalised version of the Church, were diluted in the adaptation. Director Weitz said that "in the books the Magisterium is a version of the Catholic Church gone wildly astray from its roots", but that the organisation portrayed in his film would not directly match that of Pullman's books. Instead, the Magisterium represents all dogmatic organisations. Weitz said New Line Cinema had feared the story's anti-religious themes would make the film financially unviable in the US, and so religion and God ("the Authority" in the books) would not be referenced directly.

[quote]On October 7, 2007, the Catholic League called for a boycott of the film. League president William A. Donohue said he would not ordinarily object to the film, but that while the religious elements are diluted from the source material, the film will encourage children to read the novels, which he says denigrate Christianity and promote atheism for children. He cited Pullman telling The Washington Post in 2001 that he is trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief. The league hoped that "the film [would fail] to meet box office expectations and that [Pullman's] books attract few buyers", declaring the boycott campaign a success after a North American opening weekend which was lower than anticipated. One week after the film's release, Roger Ebert said of the campaign, "any bad buzz on a family film can be mortal, and that seems to have been the case this time."

In short, watching the movie could have encouraged the kids to read the actual books, which were controversial even before the movie came out.

Thank god the movie flopped. We can’t have children engaged in thinking.

[quote]Catholic League president William A. Donohue

Looking back, the aughts were so whack. Can't believe we were still listening and kowtowing to these turds. And One Million Moms. And Concerned Women for America. And Focus on the Family. I swear not a week went by when these fuckers didn't start a boycott of sorts, and mostly won as well. Yes, we went to the other extreme now, with the left cancelling Obama, but it's still better than when the rightwingers had the upper hand. I know they hold the presidency and the federal courts, but their cultural sway has diminished a lot.

Sorry for the detour, but I wasted so much energy being upset with them during that decade. 😩

R199, Pullman’s books are an attack on, among other things, the concept of original sin and the idea that you can and should punish and suppress humanity’s essential nature. They specifically parody the Catholic Church. Pullman intended his books to be an antidote to “The Lion, the Witch, and The Wardrobe” books by C.S. Lewis, which are very Christian.

The most recent of Phillip Pullman's "Lyra" books is caught up in the mystery of why some people in her universe have to be always within a few feet of their demons and why others can be separated from their daemons by enormous distances. It's not yet been explained in the second trilogy, but I assume we will learn why in the(as yet unpublished) third book. I don't remember the question coming up before with regard to Mrs. Coulter and her golden monkey, though--he always seemed to keep close to her in the books.

The biggest mystery about Mrs. Coulter's golden monkey daemon for me is why he's the only daemon in all the books who never speaks to his human. He also seems to be the only daemon that is nameless.

I can't recall from the book, but isn't Coulter's the only monkey daemon?

Okay, the "Hamilton" guy is awful.

And the lack of Daemons on all the extras is really fucking annoying. I can't NOT see it. It's distracting.

The bear is awesome.

The way they show Lyra reading the Aletheometer is … lame. The movie did it far better.

Not a single Magesterium soldier had a wolf or dog daemon.

This is fucking pissing me off.

The first season features most of these daemons, correct? So they can't correct this issue going forward because it's too late. Quite frustrating.

Not knowing the books at all, this felt like the first episode where the story really kicked in and became compelling.

Who did Jack Thorne blow to get where he is? He seems to be the go-to guy for big, splashy adaptations and franchises and yet his ability to tell a story is always lacking. And his dialogue is meh at best.

I love the witch design, though I thought they needed brooms to fly? I must have misremembered the books.

I had completely forgotten what the deal with Will was, so that'll be interesting to see play out. I like the actor so far.

"Billy! Where's his daemon?!?!"

Bitch, where's [italic]yours?[/italic] Where's [italic]anyone's?[/italic] 😩

Seriously, R210... the impact of that moment is severely undercut by the fact that nobody else in the scene had any visible daemon.

BTW, none of this "Will and his OCD Mom" stuff is in the book.

Not only are daemons missing in action, but witches cannot fly without their branches, and the witch flying around here utterly lacked any branch.

WTF is up with this show getting the simple and obvious shit wrong?

She did have something attached to her upper arm - perhaps that was a branch? Seemed like a piece of petrified wood to me.

For some stories, books are just better. You don't need to skimp on special effects, and you can convey complex ideas quickly, without clunky dialogue. For example, Pullman shows us that Will is the son of a psychologically impaired mother, and that this has made him protective and independent, in a few sentences.

Is that a real language those researchers at the end were speaking? Sounded vaguely Scandinavian to me.

They were speaking Finnish

"How many episodes are there in this season?"

Eight.

The entire trilogy will be covered in 16 episodes.

How will they do the entire trilogy in 16 episodes if they're taking 8 to do the first book? I figured 16 would only take then to the end of book 2

They must be cutting out a lot of books 2 and 3 because they're too expensive to do. Just like they're cutting out so many daemons, including ones that are kind of crucial to the story (like the soldier's wolf daemons)

For those of you who’ve read the books -

Is the family in the 'real' world in the first book? It feels very inorganic, which I know is probably the point. Every time they came onscreen, I mentally tuned out.

Which family?

[quote]Which family?

The possibly crazy mother and the son in the boxing class. She had a packet of letters hidden in her closet under a sewing machine, I think.

R219, Will, the boy from ‘this world,’ is one of the most important characters in the books. I think that the series is introducing him earlier in the story and changing the plot accordingly.

Ah, thank you, r222. That’s what it felt like.

R223, that family is not in the books. And Will, the character that IS in the books, wasn't introduced until book 2, because he has no role to play in book one. The mother isn't in the books at all, but she's briefly referenced. NONE of this "other world stuff" is in book 1. In fact, it's kind of stupid to bring this forward, because the fact that there are multiple worlds is supposed to be a huge reveal.

His Dark Materials?

That's racist af. I am totally boycotting this.

Isn't that witch a bit overpowered on the show? I don't recall them being that powerful in the books. It did make for the coolest scene so far, in my opinion.

Wilson is menacing even in her fake maternal concern.

R225 It’s not racist...it’s poetry! From Milton’s Paradise Lost. And for the person who was upset by the earlier reveal of multiple worlds, it’s already there in the epigram if you have your eyes open.

That was one lame-ass escape scene.

I thought the concrete block flying through the air was marvelous, but other than that... yeah. Wanted to see the bear fight more.

[quote]Isn't that witch a bit overpowered on the show?

I haven't read the series, but I immediately thought the witch character seemed overpowered. Coolest scene of the episode, but it means the witches could clearly solve all the conflicts and defeat the big bad of the Magisterium.

And yes r228, I thought they did okay in what was clearly a limited budget, but you could feel they couldn't make this big set piece that grand.

Again, they've failed to establish the connection between people and their daemons, so the thread of severing is just ringing hollow. They show people far from their daemons, they show others touching daemons, … so many complete missteps here that I'm wondering if the production designers never read the books.

This is where showing is stronger than telling. We hear how important the daemons are, but we never really see it, or many daemons (which everyone has noted). Like when Lyra told the girls that they were cutting their daemons away, you would think that at least one would reach for theirs or show some kind of horrified reaction.

As for the battle scene, it was underwhelming at best. Very little of the bear. One witch. Meh!

The reality is good CGI is expensive and time consuming, I don't know why people live in a fantasy world where productions have unlimited time and money to have every character in every shot have a beautiful CGI animal with them.

Season 2 might be better with that since they will have some HBO money behind it, but this season was just financed by the BBC. Understand the reality of what television shows can accomplish under their budget and schedule.

We're talking about things that are essential to that story and world. Not like anyone is asking for some extra trees in the background

[quote]We're talking about things that are essential to that story and world.

That's the biggest fanboy response I could imagine. On what planet do you think this matters mate?!

Your budget is your budget, and you have to do your best with the money you have.

Can't speak for others, but I would literally be satisfied just with nondescript birds flying around and some critters crawling on the floor.

Well if the daemons aren't important, then the whole idea of separating them from the kids doesn't matter, and you've lost the story. Nothing fanboy about it.

I am still confused about that village where Lyra found the daemonless child. Did the villagers freak out and put the kid in the cage and then fled the village and leave the kid to die? To me there is more confusion why it's such a big deal rather than real horror about the disconnection between human and his daemon. But then I didn't read the source material.

The soundtrack, by Lorne Balfe is great.

This is a new posting from last month where a Youtubers analyzes the scene of Lyra discovering the deamonless child comparing the text in the book to the movie version. It’s really a very well done breakdown of the importance of the text and where the film tried, but ultimately failed to convey the right emotion and significance of the various elements. Thing is there are parts of the movie that did it better than the TV show, so that tell you how far off base the scene was here.

How touching that R82 is trying to be a literary snob about young adult fantasy novels.

That was a nice, wholesome episode. I enjoyed it.

Still don't know what's going on with that Will kid.

Well, Asriel was a real creep at the end of the episode.

Yes, he's clearly gone off the deep end. I thought the pink LEDs outside his place were nice. I'd live there, for sure.

R242 That is the twist, him being horrified at Lyra’s arrival and then turning on a dime once he realizes Roger is there a well. It was handled pretty well, though MaCavoy’s accent seemed weirdly pronounced and not specific to any region,

So Asriel is a bit of a pedo then? Sure looked like he wanted a piece of that

I imagine Asriel does his own evil experiements with children. Lyra may need therapy for having two crazy child mass murderers as her parents.

Anyone else chuckled when that bear was kinda struggling with opening the prison door with his snout? Why not design the interior of that place to be more paw-friendly, I wonder?

The whole bear fight was lame. The bears look cute, not scary, as well. Also the kids falling out of the balloon and not getting a scratch? There's alot of nonsense in this.

This show sucks..looks beautiful but it's a boring slog

Yeah, the writing is super bland. In the hands of some proper talent, this could have been so much tighter and exciting and dangerous. There's no particular theme to any one episode; just feels like a sprint towards the finish line.

What utter garbage. And the pronoun should be dropped from the title; it's a linguistic clunker.

It's from a poem and poetic language is famously clunky like that sometimes.

r252, I taught poetry. I don't care that the title is a quoted line; as a TV show title, it's a loser.

I disagree.

I tried watching the first three or four episodes but realized the whole thing is a bland mess. Quite a feat considering how heavy and raw the subject matters are. Then I realized the only way to properly enjoy the show is to watch it like it is a children's TV show which lets you overlook major problems in storytelling. I can't or don't want to do that now so I stopped watching the show altogether.

Quite honestly I have a hard time believing the show goes beyond the already filmed two seasons unless they make MAJOR changes all around. Unfortunately one of the biggest problems is the girl playing Lyra who's somehow managed to make her smug and extremely unlikeable. What were they thinking at BBC during the production? Did they miss all the problems?

That video upthread comparing the book and the movie is quite interesting. It really spells out how much the writing makes the story work. The narrative (stripped to the bones as it is in this miniseries and devoid of good filmmaking choices) doesn’t have great power in and of itself.

R239's video compares the book to the movie.

The TV show is far worse than the movie.

This is such a pivotal and important scene, and both the movie and the TV show completely botch it, with the TV show screwing it up so badly it was almost meaningless.

Wow. That was dark.

This show is such a dull bore I only made it three episodes. Witcher is much more watchable and fun.

Wait, doesn't Lyra have a bottle that instantly summons a witch? Why didn't she use that when she was in trouble?

Do we know why "cutting" Roger created a portal? Was that explained and I missed it? Why didn’t Mrs. Coulter ever create a portal when she "cut" all those children?

Yes, Asriel told Lyra earlier in the episode that cutting releases a tremendous amount of energy. I think you have to be as near to the northern lights as possible in order to open the portal to other worlds. I don't know what's up with that random portal in the park in "our" world, though. The one that leads to Jordan College.

Asriel's machine killed the daemon (and with that Roger as well) which created some sort of reaction with the aurora borealis to ´create the portal. Coulter's machine separated the bond between daemon and human and kept both of them alive but zombified.

Anyone else noticed how the actor playing Roger was so much better at acting than the actress playing Lyra? 😐

The battle was nicely shot (to the extent that they showed it to us), it just sucks that the writer obviously can't wrap his head around pacing and climaxes, both on the level of the episode and the season as a whole. Or maybe that's the showrunner's fault? Because it felt to me like those final scenes should have some epic music accompanying them.

I adored the lighting at and outside of Asriel's place. I want to be there right now, spending Christmas looking at the aurora in the sky, with a nice man by my side.

[quote]HBO is weighing up the possibility of more seasons of Philip Pullman fantasy adaptation His Dark Materials after the Bad Wolf and New Line-produced show became the WarnerMedia network’s biggest ever co-viewing hit.

[quote]HBO President of Programming Casey Bloys told Deadline that the show, which launched in November, has performed very well, cumulating to 5M viewers an episode. “One of the things that I was hoping and the numbers we’re seeing bear this out, it is more of a co-viewing show than we’ve ever had. We don’t have many shows where kids and parents can watch together and that was the idea with this show and it has done really well.”