Third Wave Feminism

Because they got their carrers by being anti-feminist. The real feminists talked about exploitation and prostitution and that was a big no-no, so this group had to proclaim how wonderful it was. And they were paid with media and teaching posts etc.

Careers

to tired to type

They're all so contrarian, it's exhausting.

They are really cowardly - that's the main thing. Cowards with an inability to think.

I am former NOW member who joined my freshmen year in college in 1980. As I wrote here before the narrow-mindedness of some feminist caused the failure of ERA and made the word feminist a bad word for not embracing all women. In my mind feminism is about the right for a woman to chose. I find prostitutes and strippers especially AA to be very sad and as black woman I cannot imagine any circumstance where I would have made such a choice. However, I do feel that as women we need to find ways to support our sisters by making sure they have more choices. But to answer your question, I do not know.

It’s hilarious and pathetic to see third wavers and places like jezebel get egg on their faces time and again when another big story about how awful the porn industry is to women comes out.

Because they can't believe they are gullible enough to let straight men bone them for free.

I think there is a smart wave that is emerging that is against all the obvious anti-women stuff that has been pushed on us for decades from "prostitution is empowering" to 'transwomen are women'"

I'm confused. Either sex-work is empowering.... or it's not. It's the effect of (white, $$$ empowered) men forcing women into paid sex-work for lack of other options.

Honestly, it can't be both.

It isn't; women do it because they are desperate for money. It is exploitation.

No one really thinks it is empowering. It's bullshit. This whole line was an attack, a huge attack on real feminism which was gaining ground in the 70s. The porn industry really attacked them. It is still going on - Amnesty Intl recently took the side of pimps over trafficked women.

Anti-sex workers are referred to as SWERFs (Sex Worker Exclusionary Radical Feminists)

Yes- People /men saying SWERFs and TERFs - these are people attacking women who stand up for women

Don't forget that they are demonizing gay men at every opportunity (because "privilege"!). Every day I pray that 2nd Wave feminists/lesbians and gay men will unite and put an end to this insanity once and for all.

I do, too, R13!

" Every day I pray that 2nd Wave feminists/lesbians and gay men will unite and put an end to this insanity once and for all. "

Thoughts and prayers, blah blah blah....

Feminists have looked put for the rights of sex workers since the 19th century, challenging the patriarchal view that they were evil and immoral and deserved all the suffering, disease, and abuse that came their way.

It's only recently that some fools have tried to spin sex work itself as. Something other than what it is - a shitty, dangerous job with no benetifs or retirement.

r8 I hope you're sight, but I don't think we can call it a wave. It hasn't really caught on (yet).

Is OP really that stupid? It's about who has rights to dictate what you can do with your body.

Feminists fought/fight for women, not for prostitution, R16

I always though t it was interesting how absolutely petrified alot of these "fierce, empowered feminists "are of male disapproval. I'm referring to 3rd wave not 2nd.

That is what they live for, R20. They are cowards. And get paid to be. And they always make a big show of attacking real feminists.

Josephine Butler (1880s reformer) was ahead of her time in her campaign against the sexual exploitation of women. So why has she been forgotten?

Sheila Jeffreys, a feminist academic and campaigner against the international sex industry, believes that Butler was remarkably ahead of her time. "Even today, few dare to mention that prostitution is caused by and protected for the sake of men, not women," she says.

"Is OP really that stupid? It's about who has rights to dictate what you can do with your body."

You are assuming that prostitution is a "choice" for women in this economically unjust, porn-saturated rape culture. And you are wrong.

I was watching us video by a prominent third waver where she kept referring to prostituted women. "Prostituted" is a label which removes any possibility that they have agency and made a choice.

While I am sure trafficking exists I also know that not every prostitute is trafficked. It is a choice some people make. And while I can't imagine doing it myself, that's true of a lot of jobs. For example home health aides get paid a pittance and have to handle strangers decrepit bodies including their genitals on a regular basis. I read an article recently about the problem health aides have when they are assigned to men with dementia who sexually harass and sometimes even sexually assault their carers. The workers can't leave during a shift or they lose all future jobs in that field. At least some sex work pays reasonably well.

I knew a dominatrix socially and she freely chose that work. B&D was her kink in her private life as well as her work life and she did not have a pimp. Granted, that is a field where the sex worker can have less direct physical contact with customers then standard sex work...or than many low level health care jobs for that matter..

Not that I don't disagree ladies, but why are you having this discussion on a gay men's forum?

Oh shut up R25,

This is no longer exclusively a forum for gay MEN and you know it.

r26 Do you post on r/GenderCritical out of interest?

[quote]For example home health aides get paid a pittance and have to handle strangers decrepit bodies including their genitals on a regular basis.

The difference is that home health aides don't go home at the end of the day and handle decrepit genitals for fun. Sex workers trade in sex, which is something that everyone does not only for fun, but also as a central part of a relationship. And while some prostitutes are probably able to separate sex for work and sex for love, most people can't, which is why most people will never freely choose to enter sex work, regardless of its status. This means that willing prostitutes will never, ever meet the demands of the johns, so desperate, coerced or trafficked women have to fill the gap.

The "my body my choice" is a great slogan for abortion rights, but not for prostitution. I think it should be legal, because it's the best way to try to regulate it, but there is absolute no way prostitution can exist without the exploitation of women. I can't figure out for the life of me why so many feminists support it.

R27 I don't know what Gender Critical is.

My point was that DL is a site for gay gossip and tomfoolery. Nothing defines it as being for men only.

R28, while I agree that sex work is a shitty, dangerous job with no benefits, I can believe some people choose to work as a prostitute of their own free will. Some people think that earning good money while young can help them achieve certain goals, some like being their own boss and setting their own hours, and some... just don't have any good option.

But yeah, apparently not enough people are becoming prostitutes of their own free will, so yeah, human trafficking seems to be growing. What do those idiot "feminists" who say that sex work is empowering say about that? Of course prostitution is empowering, it's empowering for the clients! That's why they're willing to pay!

I don't think its necessarily exploitative in nature. I've known two hookers in my life. They were sole traders, running their own business together, no pimps. They felt less exploited giving a few blowies a month than they did working 14 hour shifts at a supermarket for less than living wage.

The third wave is supporting the T push that will destroy gay existence, so it is a relevant topic.

How long before this thread gets deleted like the others?

R5, are you saying feminists don’t embrace prostitutes & want to help them get out of prostitution?

The liberal feminists want prosritition legalized. That endangers & oppresses women. Just look at Nevada...the women working in the brothels can’t escape. They are sex slaves. Addicted & mentally ill women are dropped off there.

And the owners of course insist that the customer is always right. So the prostitites get beaten & raped.

The Johns post online reviews, too.

That’s not empowering to women.

If you want to help these women, then check out the Nordic Model. It’s successful.

25/27 blocked.

[quote] I knew a dominatrix socially and she freely chose that work.

What a coincidence, I did too.

Except he was a stealth tranny.

His johns didn’t know that of course.

More reason to be disgusted by “transwomen.” Bio men get the wrong idea about women: male-defined.

R34 surely Nevada brothels are subject to state employment law, workers rights etc?

R37 you know Nevada is pretty corrupt, right. Gambling and prostitution bring in money so those industries get their own rules. Smoking got banned except for casinos, for instance. The local news never shows flooding because they don't want footage of Vegas flooding going national. That would be bad for business. They don't report all the suicides at the Luxor. It's not mobbed up like the old days, but it's still super shady.

Sounds gross

R38 but keeping it illegal won't stop exploitation. It will make it harder to track.

They don't care about tracking anything. It just makes more of it, the "legal" and the illegal and lowers the whole society.

r35 bye bye sweaty

R41 what does that even mean? Do you think theres a perfect society possible where this stuff doesn't happen? Its not about moral judgements at this point its about enabling organized crime or talking the power away from crime bosses.

It creates more, R43.

It is possible to abolish things, like slavery.

No one said anything about "moral judgments," R43. Is that meant to be some put-down if someone criticizes legal prostitution?

R44 I was only possible to abolish Legal slavery. Illegal slavery is alive and well.

In an era of declining workers' rights and decreased enforcement of existing regulations, I don't think legalization is going to be any use to abused, hopeless, or trafficked women. What the hell do you think the Trump administration is going to do to help these women, do you think they'll want to allot a single dollar to regulate prostitution or help women AND men escape from it?

Ask Trump what he's willing to do to help the trafficked, and he'd probably wave it away with an "I can't marry them all".

Usually I only lurk here, but feel compelled to say something. "Empowerment" motto has to go. The way it's used now a days, is so careless, everything and anything an individual does could be said to be "empowering".

Those who argue it's just like "any other job" and want to legalize it - riddle me this: can ALL employers include sex into work requirements? Why not? It's just another task right? If people are unemployed, can the state ask require trying to do sex work? Why not? Can prostitutes OR johns sue each other in court? What does theft of services look like?

Let's all be honest here; the million dollar hooker is largely a myth. While the very tiny minority may make money, that's not the case for MOST of them. Where prostitution is legal, trafficking has greatly increased and Most started underage. That's a fact. The demand outweighs the supply. It's got a very short shelf life, not unlike porn actresses - who are then left with a reputation that will likely affect them for life (job prospects, stds, trauma, etc.)

It turns sex into a legal commodity, which leads to even more problems, like all women being seen as potential sex providers. Hmm ever wonder why the sex ratio is so unbalanced, when it comes to sex? Supporting harmful practices is not what feminism should be about.

I'm all for adults doing what they want - hell, I support decriminalization of drugs - doesn't mean I support drug dealers, or deny there's been many vulnerable people being taken advantage of. Agree with the poster about the Nordic model. This isn't about being "against sex workers" (aka "swerfs") in fact, there's nothing about what i mentioned that is against them. If individuals choose to do prostitution, they are still free to, as they have been doing, but I won't ever be in favor of a society that promotes women's bodies becoming products.

[quote]I was only possible to abolish Legal slavery. Illegal slavery is alive and well.

I knew you would say something like this. Before some slavery was abolished, it was not thought possible. To have some slavery abolished is not something minor. It was/is important to the individuals and the mindset/health of society at a whole. And abolishing a lot of slavery makes a society/the world aware/have the legal capacity to abolish more.

Anyone who thinks r48's scenario could never really happen, read this: “Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job – including in the sex industry – or lose her unemployment benefit.”

Sickening! Nordic model and Nordic model only!

And AI is supposed to eliminate 50% of jobs in a few years - a lot of white collar jobs (women).

That is disgusting, R50.

I hope so, r8.

R50 the German model is terrible in general. (New Zealand gas the best model for legal prostitution.) But that wasn't something that actually happened (it was used as a theoretical argument in an economic debate but there are laws to stop it happening.)

It should be abolished altogether. I won't support it.

R54 New Zealand is luckily very far away from Eastern European organized crime gangs.

In the Netherlands where prostitution has been legalized, most of the prostitutes are migrants, often from Eastern Europe, who are victims of sex trafficking at the hands of Eastern European gangs. The situation has grown so bad, the Netherlands has considered making prostitution illegal to reduce sex trafficking.

Woman gets key to Highland hostel dorm after self-identifying as male:

Excellent points, r48.

Also...how many prostitutes want their daughters and nieces to follow in their footsteps?

Are colleges going to prepare young women for careers in sex work?

Well what about low wage workers in fast food chains or factories or sanitation? Do women want their daughters to have to work those jobs? I'm guessing no.

Let's see. Things third-wavers support:

1. The hijab

2. Men in women's spaces

3. "Sex work"

Third wave seems anti-woman to me.

It is, R60.

The whole "third wave" is an attack on women / genuine feminism.

Rapey J. Penis is at it again. He is the embodiment of Third Wave feminism, OP: a white man telling women they're doing womanhood/feminism all wrong. I guess he's trying to "sound like a woman," whatever that means in his twisted mind, but his voice gets closer to Kermit the Frog's with every video.

I don’t see why not, r59.

Are you equating serving burgers with serving your naked body to strangers to ejaxulate on or in?

Remember, the customer is never wrong. Whores have to please their johns, no matter how degrading.

Also, the whores can be reviewed online. So if they don’t act like they like being fucked by strangers all day long, they may get passed over.

Also, vaginas & breasts have expiration dates. Unlike flipping burgers or sanitary work.

So...yeah, women renting their orifices out is not trike any ol’ job.