Living in Florida

Very hot and humid during the summer months.

I wouldn't recommend it

BAD, yes it is.

It's okay. I jut moved here from NY. Things are so cheap here it compared to NY I thought I was in a 3rd world country.

People don't like in a state, they live in a specific city/area. There is little in common between the Florida panhandle and Miami Beach.

I hope that you have a taste for gigantic flying cockroaches, man-eating mosquitoes, 100+ degree heat and humidity so thick that you can cut it with a knife. Yes, parts of Florida vary as with any large state - but those constants always remain the same no matter the area that you settle.

I was listening to a legal advice call-in show on the radio and someone called in about problems with a contractor in Florida. The host gave him some advice and then he said you should never do business with anyone from Florida because "they are all crooks".

The more North you go, the more South it gets!

Florida sucks. Run now while you still can. R7 is right, especially Miami, home of the scammer, and the government officials are definitely swindlers and crooks.

I’ll bite, Op. parts South Florida are beautiful. You can live within miles of the Atlantic Ocean.

I prefer a north Palm Beach County. Miami is nice to visit, but I wouldn’t live there.

Middle Of the state and panhandle is red necks and Trump voters. The west coast (Naples, st Petersburg) is laid back and nice.

Areas of concern: high cost of all insurance, fucking hurricanes, and corrupt government. Hardly anything is done for the good of people.

Hot boys. Way hotter than elsewhere, owing to poverty.

Yes, it is the land of the Glutes, not like California, the land of the gluten-free.

Typical street scene.

Gurl, it won't stop raining.

[quote] he said you should never do business with anyone from Florida because "they are all crooks".

Given my own anecdotal experiences with clients from Florida, I would agree. Whenever I see Florida area codes ringing my phone I don't answer anymore.

Alligators in your yard.

And Hurricanes every August.

Doctors can murder people in Florida hospitals and not be sued. In order to sue for malpractice or negligence you have to be dependent on the dead person for support.

So guess what kind of doctors move to Florida?

Stand Your Ground.

Hell, only not as nice.

R10 I agree with you as to N. Palm Beach County. I lived there in the 80s and it was quite nice.

r14 ...I know. I live in Brevard County on the Space Coast and its been raining for 2 weeks

There are some very beautiful areas like this video of Jupiter Island.

There’s kinda no middle class in Florida. It’s all rich northerners or poor white/black trash.

That’s a gross exaggeration, but it’s has a grain of truth

Jupiter Island is just a mangrove swamp with Swamp People.

"I hope that you have a taste for gigantic flying cockroaches, man-eating mosquitoes, 100+ degree heat and humidity so thick that you can cut it with a knife. "

Being from Minnesota and living in the North my whole life, the year-round bugs (mosquitoes in MN are limited to a few months) and the size of the bugs, plus all the various critters from alligators to snakes seems awful. Yet, people must get used to it all and pay it no mind and find a way to at least make their homes relatively pest free. I mean people always move there and I've never heard of anyone leaving because of flying cockroaches.

No,thank you. I'll never live where it's humid or rains in the summer again.

The desert Southwest is so much better.

Where in the desert SW? My parents are in Phoenix most of the year. I enjoy visiting, but I don't think I'd want to live there. The "dry heat" thing is BS after a certain point. Yes, at 90 degrees out of the sunlight, the low humidity makes it much better than 90 elsewhere. But 105 is still 105 and hot as fuck. Summer is scorching. Tuscon seems better cuz it's at higher altitude. Albuquerque? There's limited options for big SW cities and I'd want to live in a good sized city.

R23 Tampa certainly does.

Ever heard of Gasparilla?

Parts of South Florida are really beautiful, and coming from the north, I found the housing prices to be refreshingly low. I like Lake Worth a lot; it's a nice artistic community and has a reputation for being gay-friendly.

Alys Beach and Rosemary Beach are very beautiful.

Why are there so many scams and scammers/sleazeballs in Florida? I advised companies all over the country but even for reputable companies, the Florida managers were all a little sleazy and seemed to be on the take. And inventory was always an issue. They blamed it on the Hispanic and black workers - but it wouldn’t surprise me that the managers themselves were skimming.

Obviously there exist many lovely areas of Florida - the only ones that count for much IMO are the coastal ones. I prefer the barrier islands along the Palm Beach area of the east coast. The estates facing the ocean are most spectacular/desirable and the ones facing the Intracoastal Waterway are not too shabby either. The private and/or super elite islands off of Miami (Star, Palm, Hibiscus, Fisher, etc.) are quite posh also. The list goes on. Florida climate is still a love/hate (super humid and hotter than Hades), the roaches are still HUGE and fucking everywhere and the billions of mosquitoes will eat you alive if the sand gnats do not finish you off first. Moral of the story - if you have unlimited funds and are looking to buy an oceanfront palace - I would start looking in the many gorgeous coastal areas of southern California before ever considering Florida. But hey, it's your millions not mine.

Couldn't pay me to live there. So done with the heat, humidity, hurricanes, bugs, and white trash. The criminal element is off the charts.

Swamp butt 9 months out of the year - too hot to go out and too many bugs. It's the reverse of the North and in a bad way. Never understood the appeal.

Moved to Fort Lauderdale 3 years ago after 24 year residence in NY. The Good: lower cost of living, especially real estate. Nice townhouse about the size of my prior Greenpoint apartment at price ratio 1 to 6. The weather is a bliss, 6 months of heaven, but when it gets hot it's still better than NY summers. People - on very superficial level- are quite friendly, smiles all around and almost no attitude. Open spaces, no need to search for parking spot for hours. The Bad: crooks everywhere, including my condo associations, general lack of sophistication, including the gay population. The Ugly: discrete racism and homophobia. In general: it's not a perfect place, but few are. I do not miss NY (or rather what has become of it within the last 8 years). All my friends told me I will hate living in Florida, and they were wrong. I really enjoy living here, take the good with the bad and make the best of it. Don't miss NY at all ... especially every morning while motorcycling through the beach.

Discreet, please.

My father and his wife bought a condo in the Jacksonville area when they retired. It's extremely conservative, I wouldn't recommend living in that particular area if you're gay. They love it most of the year but seeing as they go North every summer, the summers must be rough.

R35 It was so nice hear an honest appraisal of Florida living from someone who was never a flyover resident.

I agree with you almost to the letter, although I do not see any more racism here than I have in any of my past cities, and I see less homophobia. But in all honesty, that is probably due to the times we live in now. I imagine that homophobia has lessened in even the worst of locations.

A lot of DLers don't understand how different one's life can be when your money goes 5 times as far. It pretty much makes up for the fact that the residents are less cosmopolitan and the symphony is quite ordinary.

What about the Sarasota area? I hear it's quite nice with a thriving arts scene. I've never been but I'll be staying there, in Siesta Key, next January for a full month. It's mild that time of year, so I hope I don't see too many flying roaches. What about crime in that area?

Stayed in Sarasota for a week in March. Great little city-- walkable, clean, even the few homeless are friendly and non-threatening. Beaches nearby are lovely, especially Siesta Key. Even in season, it was not crowded or congested. Hope to move there from CT in 18-24 months. Hope you enjoy your stay in January [R39]-- weather should be great then!

The best part of living in Florida is that it's so fucking easy to be better than your neighbors.

I love my Florida hometown and certain islands around it but that is about it. Living in a state that has kept summertime highs until November during certain years really blows. And no, it's not old age creeping up on me to say that it was a better state to live in when I was a kid. If you're gonna move here, stay on the coasts.

What's the difference between life on the West and East coasts of Florida?

Husband and I moved to Tampa a year ago from NYC. I’d say if you’re settling down, it’s a great place to live if you’re a gainfully employed professional. We knew NYC wasn’t worth staying with all the recurring problems and wanted to leave while we still had plenty of options. I agree about the 1-6 ratio, we bought two brand new cars and rent a huge 1Br and still have plenty left over from what we were paying with NYC rent. I went through a meloncholy phase for a few months but then saw what’s happening with the MTA and read an awful NYTimes article about the rash of recent housing evictions... and yeah, we made the right decision. Everyone should live in NYC once in their lives, but know when it’s time to leave before becoming bitter about it.

Affordability is a major factor. I own my fifth floor corner unit condo, with nice views and cross breezes.

No state tax, though auto insurance is much higher.

I live in St. Petersburg, a really lovely, pretty diverse area, which has the largest gay pride parade in the state. The West coast is much more laid back. And the beaches here are gorgeous, with sand like fine sugar.

I lived in NYC for 15 years back in the 70’s and 80’s, when it was really a hole. Talk about homophobia! That’s back when the New York Times insisted on using only the term “homosexual” to describe us, something they politely try to avoid remembering now. Bugs? There were roaches everywhere; I used to watch rats romping on the subway tracks. And I had to step over incontinent homeless to get to the subway token booth.

No place is perfect, but I’ll take St. Pete any day. Quiet,laid back, lovely, affordable. What’s not to like?

As a native Floridian (yep we do exist), I can tell you that the culture shock really hits some people, especially young people. I knew so many kids in high school and college that came down here and just couldn't pick up the rhythms of the place. Perhaps it's easier when you're older. Since it's all I know, the culture is no surprise, but I do wish there were fewer rednecks and more liberal folks who watch something besides reality TV.

But in the spring and fall, the prettier parts of Florida (I live in one) are like paradise. Makes up for the purgatorial summers.

Thanks R40.

To our future Siesta Key guest: the prevalence of flying water bugs has been somewhat exaggerated. Do they exist? Yes absolutely. As do the 12 foot gators.

But in the last 5 years I have not had one single roach dive bomb me, and I have only had to remove 2 gators from my pool. And they were under 10 feet. I will bet the ranch that you never encounter a "Red Baron" roach throughout your entire visit. I envy you with every bone in my body! What a lovely destination and an entire month!

As for the gators, just remember to run in a zigzag pattern. If that fails, go for the eyes and ear holes.

I live in Gainesville. It's very good here

R48, does bear spray work on gators?

We are California natives who moved to South West Florida for the hot ocean water for SCUBA. Pacific 55F, Gulf 80F+.

We dont use A/C at home until the outside air is 90F+. House has roach now and then. They dont eat much, so no problem. Doors open all the time, so we get snakes and rodents. We yell and they leave. No gators, panthers, etc....yet

Hurricane was not fun. No damage to well built house, but no power for 5 days.

I live in Orange County and it's okay. Obviously I hate the heat/humidity, but literally everywhere is air conditioned, so not really a problem. I left NJ after college, was able to buy my own pool home by 29. I get to travel because the cost of living here is so low. I don't have a bug problem, I have Massey exterminator services. My pool is screened, I have a 2050 square foot house with 4 bedrooms and 2.5 baths, in a middle class area with "A" rated schools. My mortgage ends in 8 years and I retire in 12. There are probably tons of places that are more progressive, but I probably won't be able to afford to live like I do here on 70 grand a year as a single public servant.

Glad some of you guys are telling "as it is" ... which may offset the prevalent, but unjustified and unfair attitudes shared by many dataloungers.

R53, I am 20 minutes to Cocoa Beach and usually get there every other weekend with some of my single teacher friends. I have relatives who still live in NJ and I get up there once a year. 2 weeks every summer, I'm in the Caribbean and one week, well like 3/4 days, I go to Mexico. We seldom get the brunt of any storms, because it's 20 minutes to one coast and 45 to the opposite. I value the opportunity to live well and very comfortable in Florida.

Probably going to move down there within a year. I am tired of cold and snow and have grown to like heat and humidity (as long as there is AC, pools, and oceans, I am good). I currently teach in NJ and will probably teach when I go down there. I am 52 and single, and my 77-year-old-mother lives in Largo (next to Clearwater) and probably can't live alone much longer. She is healthy right now, but why wait until something happens? Living with her will drastically cut down on my living expenses and help her who is on a very fixed income. The only thing that gets in my mother's house are geckos--and they're harmless.

"Things are so cheap here - R4

Human life, in particular.

R55 aren’t you (and your mom) a little young to be checking out of life to live with her and take care of her the rest of her life? You could wait another 8 years. I made that mistake and ended up dreading the commitment I made within a year. Now i feel like I bailed out of NY too soon and gave up a few good years of life in the city to sit around and watch TV and occasionally go to Outback. I’m stuck with it and she’s now 88, in good health and driving me crazy. Maybe try staying there for the summer first so you can see what it’s like to spend ALL of your time together without an end in sight.

I lived in Tampa for 1 year and I couldn’t wait to leave. Fucking sucks.

R57, put her in assisted living.

The state is incredibly beautiful. Very flat though. It has the best beaches in the continental US (only Puerto Rico and Hawaii and probably Guam can compare). The politics of some (north of Orlando) are whack and the road rage nears New Jersey levels.

R57, how am I checking out of life? I am moving to Florida to get away from cold and snow, and to be near my mother in case something happens. I will still work and travel when I can.

Florida weather is MISERABLE right now, the "beautiful" conditions are over until at least October, and even then we may get a mega hurricane. It has been raining torrents here for two weeks. The sun is going to come out tomorrow and the water is going to evaporate. The humidity hits you like a wall when you step outside, and mosquitoes will be everywhere.

Miami is nice, so I'll say it thrice!

I’m relocating to Naples from Boston in 3 weeks. Can’t deal with the winters any longer.

I realize that the entirety of Flordia is in the deep south, but it's a long ass state north to south and there's obviously inland and coastal areas. Is there any weather variation due to location and/or topography? Like Atlanta is very hot and humid in the summer, but it does get SOME relief, as least compared to lower sections of Georgia, due to being 1000 feet above sea level. Tuscon is cooler than Phoenix due to elevation. Or, how places on coasts sometimes are cooler than even just five miles inland.

[quote]Is there any weather variation due to location and/or topography?

Hell no. Its all hot, flat and fucking miserable.

R62, I go from my house directly into the garage; why are mosquitoes such a problem where you are? Orange county sprays and treats for mosquitoes. Additionally, Massey treats the yard; the porch of course is also screened...not sure what is happening where you are.

In the desert SW I'll take Albuquerque over Tucson and Phoenix any day.

a true shithole

I couldn’t take the humidity. It’s just not for me.

It's also a place where people fleeing court judgments tend to go, since Florida protects homes from creditors. So OJ and the suspected murderers of Robert Wone moved there. They changed their names. Dylan (now) Thomas is a pilates instructor somewhere around Fort Lauderdale or Miami Beach, while "Joseph Anderson" is practicing law there.

[quote]It's also a place where people fleeing court judgments tend to go

Florida also allows you to obtain a driver’s license without any background check, even if your license has been suspended or revoked in another state due to DUI’s, etc.

The mountains of Florida.

R72, as a Floridian I call your bullshit.

I just moved further south in Florida - from West Palm Beach to Islamorada in the Keys. WPB is way too full of young heroin addicts bouncing in and out of treatment centers - it’s the treatment center capital of the US and there’s a million halfway houses everywhere. WPB is kind of junky as well - there’s a few pockets of decent but fir the most part it’s run down. The downtown proper (Clematis St) could have some potential but again the addicts have taken over. Islamorada is a very sweet old-Florida spot, with the very upscale Moorings Village resort anchoring the town and spurring on wonderful renovation in the village all around the resort. There’s a tiny little arts district and they are very earnest about making it happen. It’s also such a stunning island - so lush and tropical - and it’s very laid back, residents from all walks of life mingle are made frievds

R72, as a Floridian who just got my license renewed two months ago, I have to say this is not true (or maybe, not true anymore).

I was standing in line at the DMV and watched two people get refused for driver's licenses for this reason.

(By the way, I was standing in line for 5 hours, so had many opportunities to observe the weirdos around me.)

You're welcome.

Florida's own

Sunshiny!

Fine Florida living!

R76 can't you set an appointment at your DMV?

My partner is a non-invasive cardiologist and we moved here from Boston 9 years after he finished his residency. I'm from Tennessee, he's from Boston and we met at BU. He had a job offer he couldn't turn down and given that I'm a lawyer and could practice anywhere we moved. I immediately scored a job with a firm I still love and he's now in private practice. We have roots here, an astonishingly beautiful home on a lake in a gated community, and a great set of friends. We should be happy but we both hate it. The heat combined with the humidity, along with the lack of any change of seasons or cold weather, is just too much for us. But we're trapped. I'd move in a heartbeat, but my partner doesn't want to suffer a financial loss. He'd rather have his tricked out Ghibli and $3000 suits than live in a normal state. Not to be nasty, but I'm tired of the heat, fuckers who get irritated because I don't speak Spanish, and goddam Haitians who can't fucking drive.

R65 Absolutely. The further you go inland the more miserable it is. It also becomes cheaper to buy real estate the further inland you go.

If you are within 5 miles of the coast you get a lovely sea breeze; inland FL has no breeze what so ever. Not so much as a puff. My folks lived 2 hours south of me(in Orlando) but because of their sea breeze, they were always 10 degrees cooler. And it just seems do much more temperate when the breeze is blowing, yes?

R81 thanks for your honesty. The sense I get is it’s ok after living somewhere else and getting older and prioritizing low cost of living. But not a place to live in your prime.

R80, yes you can schedule an appointment with the Florida DMV. I've never had to wait too long there and the people who have served me have been helpful and friendly.

After watching R77/R78 it occurred to me: South Florida is kind of the ni88a Beverly Hills of the US. If you have 2 or 3 million dollars you can floss and appear quite prosperous for 1/10 of what it would cost in LA. And that is probably why we have such a preponderance of hip hop stars here(as well as athletes.) Of course with the athletes it's more about the tax situation. Tiger and many other A list athletes who are from Cali end up here just because of the tax benefit. So, how bad could it really be? If I were Tiger I would much rather be in Montecito with Oprah, but I guess he does not agree. Please don't F&F me for being a racist. I did not use the n word in a racist way, I was using it in a hip hop way...and if there are any POC reading this, NO I would not speak the word on the street.

I'm not FFing you for that word, R85, but for the word "floss."

Moronically stupid beyond words.

R80, you can set an appointment with the DMV, but in my county, the only appointments available were more than 4 months out. For some reason, after the hurricane, my county shut down like three of its DMV offices and the mobile DMV (the bus that drives around the county to different libraries to relieve the offices) wasn't online either, so the few that were open were really backed up.

(Everyone was complaining about this the day that I was there.)

I think it is beautiful.

The young people are mostly pretty, kind of like living in Hollywood.

Moved to Miami last year after 15 years in NYC and it was the best decision I made. Summers in NYC are 10x more miserable than Florida summers. Plus central AC is blasting in every home, business and car. I can deal with the 30 second walk to my car. That beats Walking several blocks a day in the stinky humidity and waiting in the dirty hot train station every day only to go home to Shitty window AC units. NYC humidity in the summer is worse than Florida and New Orleans humidity combined. Sure Florida has its con's, but I feel the pro's outweigh the cons here and in NYC. I can afford a spacious house, can drive to the beach in 20 minutes and I can breathe fresh air outside instead of rotting garbage, piss and shit. My parents are close by so I can keep an eye on them and help them in their elderly years. I am no longer a slave to the MTA, corrupt landlords, sub zero winter temps, hordes of entitled transplants crowding me on the train, and I can see the sunny skies and palm trees every day. I was lucky to get a glimpse of a tree branch standing on my fire escape. I no longer fear that I will die renting an overpriced shoe box. I've been completely over NYC the past 8-9 years and was depressed and burnt out. Sure I miss my friends but I actually see them more now as they usually fly down to visit several times a year, than I did the last few years. The stressfull fast paced living in NYC is completely exhausting after you age out of your 20's and the free time I had when I wasn't working I was too tired too do much other than lounge at home while my friends and I would beg eachother to visit their apartments because we were all too physically and emotionally tired to commute.

Now that gothamist is back up and running, reading it confirmation enough that I made the right choice in leaving NYC.

Plus the men are much hotter in miami than NYC.

R85, that size house in Florida does not have a $2 or $3 million price tag.

So, Floridians, what's the consensus on the giant roaches (palmetto bugs). Obviously they exist, but how much of a "problem" are they really? I've read they prefer to be outdoors. How often will you encounter one outdoors and how often will one sneak into your home?

R93, I live in South Florida. I have not seen a palmetto bug since I was a child.

I've only seen a few palmetto bugs. They are not a big deal. A palmetto bug sighting every few months > NYC's roach infestations (when you see 1 little roach in NYC it is a sign of thousands more), NYC's rat and mouse infestation and the mass bed bug infestations in movie theatres, hotels, apartment buildings that pretty much take over your life and are costly and difficult to completely eradicate. The mosquitoes down here are annoying but mosquito repellant is cheap and effective. Overall my health has improved immensely since I moved to Florida. I've only had 1 cold. In NYC I used to come down with the flu at least twice a year, suffer from multiple colds, strep and sinus infections. The subway is a giant Petri dish. Crammed in a train car with hundreds of germy people coughing, sneezing and grinding on me was a health nightmare. On more than 3 occasions I had to share a train car on the 1 train with a man who shat himself. I lost count on all the times I witnessed people on the train pissing and vomiting. Im convinced I Fucking caught scabies from riding the jam packed subway being rubbed up against so many people. I had no direct contact with any one that week aside from the crowded masses on the train. So yeah no a few palmetto bug sightings a year in Florida are nothing.

We understand that R94 has been legally blind since childhood. I was born in Florida, grew up in Florida and went to college in Florida. My family lives in Florida and I still visit regularly. There are huge, flying, spiky-legged, 3"+ "palmetto bugs"/"water bugs"/cockroaches everywhere. Yes, they prefer to live outside but find their way indoors OFTEN. They like like darkness and water sources and love food (kitchens are the primary goal and bathrooms a close second). They love to eat pet food (most people have pets). They are not afraid of humans at all and will land on you, crawl over your face while you are sleeping, and even crawl into ear canals and up noses (look it up, it's a thing). I have lived in Tampa, Orlando, West Palm Beach, Tallahassee, and Fort Lauderdale. I am here to tell you as God is my witness - they were rampant in every city - EVERY one. Certain locations and certain times of year are worse than others - but they never go away. Even in college, I did not live in a poorly maintained property; you can clean all you want and never bring a bite of food into your house and they will still get in. Every time someone goes in or out of a door - one can sneak in without notice. They can flatten their bodies and get around window screens. They love to enter your home through the plumbing. And they WILL - mark my words. When pest control comes to spray - they come out of the woodwork. You will see them both dead and alive. And outside (particularly near water sources) - they are everywhere. Anyone who claims to live in Florida and not see them is either a liar or legally blind.

[quote] I currently teach in NJ and will probably teach when I go down there

NJ public school teachers make a fortune. Their pensions are very generous with totally free health insurance. You'll do very well financially in Florida.

I grew up in Winter Park and I used to return frequently for visits. Not as much now even though I still have relatives there. It was a lovely place to grow up but since my family was originally from NY City we did miss certain things and my parents were appalled at the politics and other nasty things like vestiges of racism, even segregation. I've thought of moving back but whenever I go home for a visit eventually something stupid or ignorant is in the news and I just want to race to the airport and get the hell out of there. But yes you can get a lovely lovely piece of real estate, with pool and beautiful landscaping, for a fraction of DC prices. Hell for the most part we don't even have the kind of beautiful homes and property you can get in Florida.

It's me again--I can assure you I am not blind.

Here's the thing--most of South Florida, where people actually live, has been developed: little tiny yards, CONCRETE everywhere. Would one expect to see palmetto bugs on South Beach, in Coral Gables? The old time Florida that R96 remembers from his youth, where there were trees and greenery and undergrowth and mangroves everywhere WAS like that. But these days, unless you live in a poorly-kept trailer park, you will not see bugs.

R96 keeping your drains covered will help. Palmetto bugs don't hatch thousands of eggs a day like the smaller NYC roaches who completely take over your apartments and multiply Like gremlins. Even when maintaining a spotless apartment with roach traps and regular extermination they will find a way to cover your house. Most buildings in NYC are pre war and have all sorts of roaches and rats burrowing inside the walls. If a neighbor in your building or in an adjacent building has a roach/mouse or bed bug problem good luck to you. In can take as little as 2-3 days for a clean bug free apartment to turn into Joe's Aparrment due to poor insulation in old buildings. Disease carrying roaches leaving Roach eggs, and roach Shit everywhere is a fucking nightmare. Bed bugs and mice don't get me started. Monthly Extermination and keeping your residence clean is not enough. Trash is left out on the sidewalk twice a week for pick up. A breeding drowns for rats, roaches and maggots. Not to mention the stench of the garbage baking in the summer heat. So yeah dealing with a few palmetto bugs is really not a big deal. Unless you have hundreds of them multiplying daily taking over home- then deal with it

Y'all better learn to swim.

BTW, What's with NYC and garbage out front? Who not in alleys in the back of residence, or is there a deficient alley network?

R100, I've heard that as the sea rises and the tip of FL is so close to sea level, there's nothing that can be done to stem the water. Barrier islands or reefs, or sea walls won't do anything because the soil is so porous that the water will simply come up from underneath the ground.

(It is the limestone that is porous, not soil.)

R101 Most buildings on each block are connected and do not have alleys.

Okay, R103, that makes sense. But the foundation underneath the soil is porous limestone, so same result, right? The water can come up from underneath.

R92 I did not mean to imply anything about the cost of Oprah's house. What I meant is that if I had Tiger's money, I would chose to live in Montecito. And yes, you can live pretty much like a fake Beverly Hills/Hollywood Hills swell if you have a net worth of 3 million(that's assuming you want to live like you are richer than you actually are.)

Get a fairly flashy crib for one million, a nice whip for 70K and you are pretty much set up for clubbing and playing like the boss you aren't.

You can't buy a bungalow in the Hollywood Hills for one million(I know because I am on thee hunt for something under 2, and the pickings are slim.) I bet a lot of the many "producers" and rappers are living the life I just described.

R106 speaks the truth. The real estate in Los Angeles is ungodly $$$$. A million will buy you very little even in very untrendy areas that are a huge hike from the action - we are talking either a 1000sf tear down or a small but well-maintained condo somewhere deep in the Valley. NYC is just as bad if not worse when it comes to real estate prices - but it is just very different style of living than LA. California and Florida are also like night and day but far more similar to each other than comparing either warm weather lifestyle to a New England city.

R106, Tiger is worth well north of $100 million; in fact $740 million according to April 2018 Forbes estimate. So, whatever reason he has for living in Florida, it's not because he can get a Beverly Hills lifestyle for cheaper. I'd imagine with that sort of money, his life in FLA is completely insulated from the negative aspects of FLA.

R106, but you can't buy anything flashy in South Florida for $1 million. That's what I meant to say. That house you saw in the rap video, depending on the neighborhoods here, would probably start at $8 million (close to where I live). In a part of town that's really snazzy, we're talking upwards of $12.

I don't know where rap stars live--I mean, specific ones. I live very near an area with a lot of professional athletes (the Dolphins and Marlins).

I will add that many pro golfers and tennis players live in FLA. Cheaper and more centrally located than CA for the majority of competition locations. Could be tiger DID move there for cost when he was just starting out, built a life there, and never felt obliged to move. But, again, with his money now, he could EASILY live anywhere.

Keep in mind that many of the important tennis camps, training facilities, and tennis coaches live here. The tennis community in Florida is huge and well-entrenched; it's not like they've chosen to live in the wilderness alone.

Absolutely, R111. From the early days of Chris Evert to the Nick Bolleteri Academy (which was brought into the IMG fold years ago), to all tennis centers/academies all over FLA, it truly is an entrenched community. Tennis pros have resided in Florida for a long, long time.

Oh, and the USTA recently opened a massive training facility near Orlando, adding to FLA's already huge tennis infrastructure.

R112 Okay, I don't want to get in a pissing match with you over the price of real estate in Florida. I will say that I have lived in FL for 25 years, and I have lived in not so chic areas(such as Orlando) somewhat upscale areas(such as Stuart,) and very swanky areas.

I know real estate prices like the back of my hand. And I disagree with you on much of what you say. Sure, a house like the one in Lil Pump's video on Star Island would be a fortune---no doubt. BUT, you could buy a very reasonable facsimile of such in a gated community in Boca for just a smidge over one. You could buy something very, very showy for 1 million in Port St Lucie and inland FLL or MIA. I know for a fact that quite a few of those in the hip hop world do not live in the top dollar neighborhoods, rather they chose to compromise on the locale in order to get a nicer house.

And if you are a total faker, you can rent a fucking palace in MIA for 15K per month. In Bev Hills or Los Feliz that will get you a decent pad, but certainly not a showplace. I have known several C list celebs who rent glorious water front mansions for 3 months when they are about to do a spread for a magazine or even just an interview.

Tiger's place in Jupiter Island Colony is spectacular even by California standards. He has his own 18 hole golf course and he is beach front. And obviously there is no public access to his property. Heck, Elin's house was staggering, and it was about 1/3 the cost of Tiger's.

R114, I think you're responding to R109.

[quote] You could buy something very, very showy for 1 million in Port St Lucie and inland FLL or MIA.

I almost feel like posting expensive houses in my neighborhood to show you that you can't, but I don't want to be that specific on DL. The fact that you put Port St Lucie (yuck) in the same bracket with Fort Lauderdale and Miami is just inexplicable. In Miami, you could get a nice house--not showy at all--2500 for $1 million in the Gables, Little Gables neighborhood. Any further east, like maybe Miami Shores or Upper East, there is nothing snazzy in that price range. Maybe far south in Pinecrest, you can get something decent but not snazzy for that amount. The Grove certainly does not have single family homes in that price range (especially not with room for 3-car garages). Perhaps way the freak out in west Kendall or the Hammocks (where I never go), you could buy a small horsey ranch for $1 million, but it won't be luxury.

[quote] I know for a fact that quite a few of those in the hip hop world do not live in the top dollar neighborhoods, rather they chose to compromise on the locale in order to get a nicer house.

I really don't know where any rappers live down here. I know where the professional athletes live. I know where the wealthy business people of Miami live. (I heard at a party that Judge Judy bought a house in the Gables, but I don't know where.)

Me, R116, again.

I have friends who have bought and renovated in Wynwood, but you don't see that type of house there.

Jeezus, I wasn't putting PSL in the same bracket as MIA and FLL. My point was that IF you are willing to live in a less glitzy area, there are million dollar flashy houses to be had. And don't sneer at PSL...it's close to the shore and the sea breezes are quite nice. It s a good locale for true middle class families. Listen I love to go to MIA several times a year and get a great hotel and just play for a few days, but I would not ever want to live there. And Kendall, where OJ bought, was one of the less desirable locales I was thinking about when I mentioned million dollar properties popular with low level millionaires.

I was certainly not thinking of Coral Gables, The Grove or any of the islands.

Somehow this interesting thread is being derailed by few morons bragging about celebrities and their multi-million dollar houses. Would you shut up already and carry your idiotic conversation somewhere else.

Wtf is wrong with Kendall? Nothing -unless you feel uncomfortable around actual Cuban people. It is a lovely area, with great homes and shopping, far from hurricane flood zones and lacking in pretentious transplant Trash. If I wanted to live in ugly corny overpriced industrial turned hipster cesspool Wynwood I would have stayed in NYC.

R6.... also the big boa constrictor snakes, and any body of water (even a small pond) can hold alligators. Everything is big, from insects to animals, down there. Also, aside from the oppressive heat and humidity in the summer, the state is too flat. I like some mountains and hills, at least.

between the sink holes and rising water it's going to be gone soon.

[quote]My family lives in Florida and I still visit regularly. There are huge, flying, spiky-legged, 3"+ "palmetto bugs"/"water bugs"/cockroaches everywhere.....They are not afraid of humans at all and will land on you, crawl over your face while you are sleeping, and even crawl into ear canals and up noses (look it up, it's a thing).

Seriously re-thinking even a visit to Florida. I would have a heart attack if I woke up to one of these prehistoric creatures crawling on my face.

Been here 18 years (tenured professor) and hate it more each year. SoFL, at least, is becoming a third world country, traffic is unbearable, rudeness abounds, and it is NOT cheap to live in a nice area near the water. If you must, the west coast is much nicer...better beaches, less traffic. Central and North are redneck...look at our governor! And it voted for Trump.

Florida will be under the Atlantic and gulf soon. The process is already well underway.

After reading this thread I'd like to do a road trip to Florida. I'm in Connecticut and used to visit relatives living near Daytona beach in winter. Never been there in summer and never experienced the heat and humidity. I'm hoping to retire in 5-6 years and wouldn't mind living somewhere warmer at least part of the year.

Friends moved to Boynton Beach from the Bay Area for work and stayed only one year before moving back. Their complaints were racism, red necks and a sense of nowhere to go.

Are the bugs less of an issue in the winter months and in the cooler areas of Florida. Tampa only averages 60º in January.

[quote]Wtf is wrong with Kendall?

Nothing, as far as I'm concerned. He's perfect!

R128 - yes, they are slightly less of an issue in the cooler months. Unfortunately, it never gets cold enough to kill them off. You typically do not see some of these huge bugs up North because the winters are severe enough to kill them off completely. (Cockroaches do not fair well in the desert-like areas either due to lack of water - ditto mosquitoes).

What is this whole bug hysteria about? I have lived in Fort Lauderdale for over 3 years now and occasionally one or two will pay a visit and walk around the house. The moment you realize they are not these nasty NYC cucarachas ... they are basically harmless and easy to catch. That's what I do and let them live happily outside without going into panic mode. Yes, I get ants as well ...once a year - around spring - just as I had them in a brand new apartment in Brooklyn. And these crocks ... I swear, I have not seen one in my condo pool yet. Undoubtedly, some of you hate Florida and nothing will change that. I have moved here with no expectations nor any long term plans ... but it just happened I do like living here. The best part - not the beautiful beaches and 6 months of bliss weather-wise - is the fact that I don't have to be a mortgage slave anymore, I don't have to kill myself to pay the bills ... and still be able to live in conditions that by NY standards are luxurious and affordable only to the rich. If a 5th floor Manhattan walk-up, the size of a shoe box is your thing, that's fine ... but I do like having nice backyard with jacuzzi and a heated swimming pool. I love riding a motorcycle or a convertible every morning near the beach. Two measly bugs from time to time, or the minuscule chance of crock encounter will not deter my enjoyment.

Just one more addition to the above statement. My only concern before moving to Fort Lauderdale was the cultural options. But with several really nice art-house movie theaters (Gateway and Cinema Paradiso for example), lovely vinyl record shop (Radio-Active, on par with my favorite NY's Academy Records) and Netfilx DVD subscription - I have more than I can chew. Especially, considering the $300-$500 price range for theater tickets for shite like "Hamilton".

I guess that’s fine if movies and tv are good enough for your cultural expectations. What about opera, other live performance, museums, etc?

We have three opera companies in the area--well, two, but one stages the same productions in two different theatres. A symphony, art museums (more modern art).

We have much of the trappings; I will say what you don't have is a particularly refined populace (unlike NYC).

Opera? If you want culture fly to Europe for your vacations.

The closer you are to miami the hotter and wetter the climate. I've always lived in jacksonville and i thought i could deal with heat but going to miami opened my eyes to the infernal depths florida can reach. The only redeeming feature is you encounter more latino/puerto rican people the more south you are and the cities have gorgeous skylines and shopping areas.

r136, Orlando is probably the hottest place in Florida in the summer. It is stifling hot and humid there in June, July and August. As mentioned there is no sea breeze like there is in Miami, Tampa, etc.

[quote]NYC humidity in the summer is worse than Florida and New Orleans humidity combined

NYC humidity might FEEL worse because NYC doesn't have powerful air conditioning systems in every building. But the actual humidity outside is worse in Florida, that is just a fact based on climate.

I guess you were lucky enough to not face extended power outages last year after Hurricane Irma. After you have lived without AC in Florida for a few days post hurricane, you will truly see how brutal the humidity actually is. There were people sleeping on their front lawns at night because their homes were too hot to sleep in.

The humidity and heat are easy to deal with. We only use the A/C at night. Bugs no big deal.

The politics are a different story. Where we live there are Trump stickers still. And that statue of Robert E Lee is bugging the hell out of me.

In all fairness, you do generally rate a place's climate tolerability within the context of heating and cooling technology, not on what it would be like to live there full time without such technology. That said, some people don't like FL, even with air conditioning in nearly every building.

[quote] What about opera, other live performance, museums, etc?

It just hasn't been the same since the Mr. Burt Reynolds Dinner Theatre closed.

I hate sarcasm R141 but that "Golden Girls" reference is quite funny .... even if the assumption is not quite correct?

Look R133 I know where you are coming from. I have had lived in NYC for 24 years. Throughout this period I have had cried seeing one particular performance of "La Boheme" at the Met several years ago. I will never forget Eartha Kitt at the Café Carlyle and Charles Aznavour's performance at the City Center, Kurt Masur's conducting of Dvorak at the the Avery Hall and the performance of "Jacques Brell is Alive and Well ... " at the Village Gate resulting in buying every Brel album available at the W4th St Tower Records afterwards. But the average, good but not great live performances that I have seen, greatly outnumbers the exceptions. I don't know how old you are ... at 54 y.o. I am culturally saturated and if I want to spend 2 hours of the remains of my life, I certainly don't want to waste it. That's why I don't care anymore if it's live or recorded in any format. Instead of seeing quite bland performance of "Swan Lake" at the Met, I rather watch the Royal Ballet Blu-ray version with Natalia Osipova, I did not enjoy Roger Waters "The Wall" MSG concert as much as I love the album every time I listen to it. I have seen operas, plays, concerts and live performances in general that even if quite good, did not induce that awe that I felt re-watching Lindsay Anderson "Oh, Lucky Man", or re-listening to Pavarotti and Stoto's recording of La Boheme. As for museums as R135 said you have to go to Europe. Not MOMA nor the MET can compete with D'Orsay, Louvre or El Prado. And that's the reason I don't feel culturally deprived in Florida. Last but not least, I'm one of the few people on this Earth, outside the 3rd world country, that does not own nor watch TV. There are so many wonderful options, even in Florida.

R119 I apologize for that. I did not have any intention of derailing the thread when I made the comment that one can live like a boss for very little money in comparison to California, and as far as I was concerned that was the end of that.

Unfortunately someone m else took issue with that and continued to challenge the concept that Miami was so much cheaper than LA.

Happily the conversation is back on track now.

I can relate to R143, but with regard to travel. I've had the good fortune to travel all over the world for 25 yrs (business and personal), and now that I'm in my 50's I don't feel the need to race around the globe collecting first hand experiences. Traveling is a lot of hassle, expense and risk (depending on where you go). I'm just as happy these days to enjoy the simple pleasures close to home..... with an occasional trip every few years.

Well, to all of those in other states, South Floridians talk obsessively about real estate. Aside from hospitality (which plays into it), real estate is the biggest business in South Florida. Don't be surprised when a Florida thread gets "derailed" to a subject that we are ferocious about.

You may continue your "Flyover Misconceptions of Florida" thread.

Be sure to comment on the bugs.

Sending you a kiss R144

R146 - the reality is that FLorida IS bug paradise (all of the bugs that were addressed above). You might not like that fact, but it will not change just because you said so..

No more bug talking!

Last night as I was sitting in my color coordinated Jacuzzi, sipping on my 3rd third Banana daiquiri (the yellow goes so well with the blue patio cushions) .... this nasty bug flies right into my glass so beautifully and carefully ornamented with matching paper umbrellas. I was beyond shocked!!! ... I completely flipped and broke to little precious pieces. I thought my life was over and honestly believed the world was going end soon. I had absolutely no strength to fight back ... I just looked up through the merciless abyss of existence and cried:" Why God ... why?????

^LOL

Speaking of real estate, my parents got suckered into buying some land (Marion co. I think) and there seems to be no market for it after 30 years of paying taxes. It's been a total money pit! How many tourists have been conned like this thinking the land there is going to be in high demand from future developers? It's a trashy hot cesspool.

Most parts of Florida (who can speak of an entire state) are a volatile real estate market. Certain areas are more recession-proof than others and beach-front will always be just that (until those lots are under water which will happen sooner than you expect..). That said, the entire country is blowing a big ol' real estate bubble and partying like it was 2007. Mark my words...WATCH OUT. This will end badly. Florida doesn't have the foreign king/queen/prince/princess money that has funneled into California to keep its market afloat and more gangbusters than ever. It will crash country-wide but will be harsher on areas like Florida than others. I am guessing that very nice estates will be on the market for very cheap sooner than later...

R138 I was here during Irma and lost power for weeks. I also lived in New Orleans when Katrina struck so you can miss me with that. I have experienced humidity and had to live without AC. The heat and humidity in NYC are literally trapped and baking in the concrete surroundings. There is no cooling breeze and the temperatures in NYC tend not to drop at night in the summer like they do in south Florida. Every summer in NYC claims several casualties due to the heat and heat and humidity advisories occur often. There are cooling centers and still In 2018 New Yorkers have to cool themselves by opening fire hydrants and running through the water. NYC is basically a dirty over populated concrete oven. As someone who has spent 14 summers in NYC, 2 summers in New Orleans and several summers in miami (and dealing with no AC for prolonged periods of time in each city- I stand by my opinion that NYC summers are the most humid and miserable of them all.

I hear you - in LA, the temps drop a LOT every night. A warm day is always followed by a cooler night - something that I find very appealing. NYC summers are right up there with Orlando, FL or Kansas City for that matter - stagnant heat.

I don't know where you are getting your info from R153 but it just doesn't make any sense. Have you actually done any research supporting catastrophic visions. We are not anywhere near 2007 and here is my own example - the townhouse in Fort Lauderdale I have purchased 3 years ago for $145 K, today it is worth around $165K, nowhere near the $360K for which it was sold in 2007. Just take a Valium and relax for another few years. I am not saying it will not happen , but your doomsday predictions are just exaggerated.

welcome to Florida!

Of course the real estate is cheap. It’s anyone’s guess how long it will be above water.

Don't forget about those "love bugs" that suicide bomb your car by the dozens in August/September. If you drive across state, it'll take a couple of hours to scrape the carcasses off the surface of your car.

Oh, and be careful going out to get the newspaper. There could be an alligator lying under your front porch steps.

Then there are the shark attacks. Once you go in the water and a shark notices you, it can recognize your smell from 50 miles away. So, it knows when you're in your car headed back to the beach, and it heads toward the shore in front of your favorite cheap hotel.

OK. I lied about that last part above. But, still, watch out for those fish.

And I forgot to mention the sinkholes. Sometimes, they take out a house in just a few seconds.

I have to say what I feel...Miami has so much appeal, a great place to get a seafood meal. It's got style, blue skies, sunshine, white sand by the mile. Every day is sublime. The coldest of winters are warm and divine. There's ball clubs and night clubs, all within reach. Dance the samba till morning, then lie on the beach. Each view is a postcard, each day a great time. It's the cream of the crop, it's the top of the line!

It's a hell hole for the mountain/stream/lake type of people.

The summers are unbearable.

If someone chooses to live there, then more power to them. For visitors however - I strongly recommend seeing it during the winter, not summer for the reasons that R162 mentioned.

Actually r162 there's plenty of streams ,lakes and hot springs, mountains not so much.

[quote]Opera? If you want culture fly to Europe for your vacations.

Oh dear, that's so poignant. Have you ever been out of Nebraska?

Most likely more times than you ...

Believe it or not, Mary R165, millions of people live full, happy lives without ever going to the opera.

I'd like to add my two (or three) cents.

First, the reason that virtually all of the businesses in Florida are so shifty -- and that people move here to re-create their identities and pose as doctors, lawyers, the opposite sex, etc. (there are great counterfeiters in Miami!) -- is because very few people have lived here in Florida for very long, and there is always a new crop of suckers (uh, retirees) coming next year. So, say you own a garage where you fix cars. You can screw over as many old people and make as much money as you like, because many you have screwed over will die/move into nursing homes and new suckers are constantly arriving -- so who's left to tell the newbies where not to go for car repairs? Multiply that by thousands and thousands of businesses and professions and there you have urban Florida. In rural areas where there are more native Floridians, this tactic is not so easy, because people there have histories. But it's all too common in places like St. Pete.

Speaking of which, I lived in St. Pete for 15 years and I saw it lose its charm, fall prey to developers, and fill with traffic, so I recently moved north to the edge of the Ocala National Forest, one hour west of Daytona Beach. This is a beautiful area, even though my quiet neighborhood is Trump central and covered with confederate flags. But once I drive 1/2 mile away, I can leave all that behind and venture into the Forest. The thick foliage reminds me of the woods back "up North" and the wildlife is a joy to see. There are winding curves and even hills! There are springs to swim in and rivers to kayak and dirt roads to explore, and bears and eagles and cranes and turtles and deer to accompany you on your journey. And yes, not only is there a nice breeze here year-round, but there are four seasons. Today the high was 74! But next week summer will be here and it will be in the 90s until September. Fall will come in November and the winter low here in January was 24 degrees. Leaves changed color and there was frost on my windshield more than a few days this winter.

As for the cockroaches, I have seen a few. But they would rather be outside than in, and they're not nearly as common as the butterflies and bluebirds I constantly see in my yard.

Can you tell I love it here? It really is worth giving up the hustle and bustle to live so peacefully and in such a beautiful area, especially now that I'm retired. I hope all of you who move here to Florida find your own place in the sun.

Many times dear ... so I highly recommend that you do it as well ... at least once!

Bless you R167 and the millions of people living full, happy lives ... just please do not employ feminine gender that any self-demeaning gay man will resort to in spite of his ignorance. And that goes for the millions of people who do it as well, no matter how full or happy lives they have.

Has anyone read the new memoir "Over the Manhattan Rainbow". Here are some excerpts from page 93:

Sunday “I hate Mondays!!!!” and I mean it from the bottom of my overworked (2 jobs just pay the bills) heart

Tuesday:

I don’t understand how anyone can take a dump in public, just like this homeless guy at 53rd&Lexington subway platform this morning. I can’t even take a leak at the urinal.

Wednesday:

Thank you Lord!!!! Thank you!!!! My Chase application for a short term loan was accepted!!! I can finally buy these “Hamilton” tickets!!!! (Could not and would never forgive myself for not seeing it).

Thursday:

Looking for a new apartment. Just saw this teensy-weensy , yet adorable studio ... fingers crossed and hoping it’s rent controlled. 5th floor walk-up so I won’t be needing my gym membership anymore. I may however need to find a storage for my winter clothes and Judy memorabilia.

Friday: Summer’s coming, the air-conditioner goes back where it belongs ... the window.

Saturday:

Another friend of mine moving out of NYC? ... I just don’t get it! And Florida ... of all places????, Such a bug infested shithole / culturally deprived desert! How can anyone pretend to like it? Not me! Never been there and as God is my witness, never will!

Oh R168 ,I know just what you mean about St. Pete ! When I first started going there in the mid 70s,it was such a charming,slow paced city with a faded elegance . I used to love seeing the old ladies in their hats and gloves,and the old gents in their seersucker suits ! My friends used to call it "Gods waiting room" but I loved everything about it. It also had quite the festive little gay scene going on surprisingly . One of my all time favorite apartments I ever lived in was in a converted carriage house (garage really) behind a ramshackle victorian off 5th street. The brother of the old lady who owned it used to salvage stuff from buildings that were being torn down,so the apartment had amazing paneling,leaded glass windows and all manner of architectural salvage.it was fenced in with a concrete wall,and she had this lush overgrown garden. I used to love sitting at the window watching all the birds and butterflies and looking at the gorgeous flowers while I had my coffee.

I traveled all over the country,but I always seemed to end up back in St. Pete. When my 1st husband and I (mostly me!) decided we were tired of traveling all over for his job,we bought a little 1950s 2/1.1/2 block home for $38,000.That was 1988. That same house (wich I lost after he died in 1994,but I digress) sold a few years ago for $338,000! I last visited St. Pete in 2007 after a many year absence,and I was absolutely appalled at how much it had changed. Everything I knew was either gone or changed beyond recognition. I spent a week there,and when I left I knew Id never see it again. Too much had changed for the worse,too many memories. Kissin Cousins still had the best biscuits and gravy ever though !

I’m in Key West right now - down here checking out a job prospect. If you haven’t been here before it’s very hard to describe it because it is literally such a jumble with so many extreme contrasts. There’s no denying the architecture of the houses in the historic part is completely charming and compelling - great scale and beautiful lush tropical gardens. It’s a bit to a lot shabby but that adds to the appeal. It’s very outdoors oriented - restaurants, bars, etc - and houses really utilize their outdoor areas. The people are funky - lots of tourists on Duval St but the locals are everywhere and dress kind of hippie and/or very casual - it’s hard to know who is the CEO and who is the server. If you arent rich and have a low budget for rent you will definitely end up in a shithole.

If Key West had a beautiful beach front area it would be perfect.

Everyone has confirmation bias. There are people happy and miserable everywhere, Florida and NYC included.

I spent a couple months in Ocala - with regular drives out to Ormond/Daytona on route 40. Favorite place Juniper Springs. Love it.

But what really astounded me was the drainage pits. Every day around 10AM it'd rain and then those pits would fill with water. A half hour later the water would be gone.

And the traffic accidents - one with an RV, a motorcycle and a pickup truck - sheared the front right off the RV and the motorcyclists head was rolling on the pavement.

And it's true what they say, Florida for the newly wed and the nearly dead.

I thought that's what they said about cruise ships?

To the person who is moving in with your mother in Florida, Kudos. If you and your parent get along quite well and can live together without drama, you like the area AND if you won’t be out of pocket for living with her, I say go for it. You won’t regret it when her time comes, provided you have the resources to start over on your own.

If you will feel in any way hard done by for moving in with your aging folks, if you are unable to come to a reasonable financial agreement with them, or if you will hate the lifestyle, then don’t do it.

I live in Clearwater, FL. Reading this thread has been AWESOMELY ENTERTAINING!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R179 what is your opinion/input?

I sincerely hope you don't judge history the way you judge Florida R180 ...

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

Well, here's an article on the same con man linked above from the Washington Post. After leaving his wife and kids he sole a dead man's identity and started a whole new family in Florida. This is (IMHO) a lot more common in FL than it is in other places. In Florida, things are rarely as they appear to be, so keep your eyes peeled.

I am moving to Fort Lauderdale next month. Wish me luck.

I live in the Gainesville area. I moved back after I retired from the Military. I had lived here as a teen. In all seriousness the bugs are not even close to my memories of them. I lived in Central Florida as a teen and maybe the loss of the huge citrus industry to a few back to back freezes in the late 80s reduced the extent of insect utopia. When I first came back I moved to Lake County just north of Orlando. Its live and thriving but it was not as I remembered the State. I looked around and decided on the Gainesville area because of the Veterans Affairs Hospital and proximity to the University of Florida. Gainesville is currently the 2nd fastest growing city in the United States. Its still got a small town feel to it. For those moving down or considering it Florida is very distinct by region going from South to North - I mean to make a comparison you basically have an area about equivalent to NYC all the way up to Vermont. No one expect Massachusetts to be like NY or Vermont or Rhode Island. You have to think of Florida and its regions in the same way. The frost line is in Ocala, what this means is you are likely to experience hard frosts North of Ocala - this really separates the states and its Snowbird/geriatric population. There is no way to sugar coat it South Florida is like another country - and yes, lots of rednecks with Stars and Bars in the northern regions of the State. I do not recommend any part of Florida that you can reach by exiting of I-10 from Jacksonville to the sugar beaches of Pensacola that includes a drive by Tallahassee for any Yankee - you are just not going to understand that part of Florida and it is the deep South still, it really is. Tallahassee is remarkably beautiful little city with rolling hills and you will swear you are not even in Florida out in that surrounding area. Going to the South of Tally you have some of the most pristine wilderness areas and unspoiled beaches and Natural areas. A lot of it is preserved. If you want to bird watch, kayak and really adopt a natural coastal life style it might be right for you - but it will be a private and quiet life. Here in Gainesville you can still disappear. I don't know about culture in any place but they do have some nice things that come through here because of the University. Orlando is is just - well its a house of mouse - The water as in Atlantic Ocean starts to get that pretty shade of blue straight east and a little South of Orlando. BUT - this is where it really changes - it really becomes a different creature that part of Florida and imo the humidity also seems to take a different turn in intensity just South of Orlando. Tampa - used to have a quiet older feel to it. My personal romping grounds are North of Orlando. I Love the Springs and prefer them to the Beach. The water is cool and crisp and sometimes mantees will join you, which is really a thrill. We have an excellent assortment of State and even National Forests. Since moving to my home on an acre - I have not had a cock roach in my house (6 years now) I did have a problem with brown widow spiders and I do have to watch for fire ants. I have a bug guy that comes 4 times a year. I have lizards around my house, a stubborn armadillo that digs holes all over the place. The Gators at this point are no joke, they really have rebounded since they protected them - you just need awareness, and for gods sake don't feed them. I will make a disclaimer here that I think is very important. I do not seek night life at all at this stage in my life. I seek outdoor life and being in natural environments and this state really can be a paradise for that. Get a bike or kayak and you can have a wonderful time. It is a slower pace down here in North Florida - but for some it might be just what the seek.

Swamp-like and FULL of noisy birds, bugs, and Deplorables.

Yes, I would say that is true about North Florida r187 I see a pick up truck in my area almost every time I go out with dog crates in the back for Hog Hunting. Lots of Air Boats and Fishing boats moving around behind trucks on the Weekends too. Its not Wyoming mind you, but North Florida is outdoor orientated - and hunting and fishing are a big deal.

[quote]...my friends and I would beg each other to visit their apartments because we were all too physically and emotionally tired to commute.

MARY!!!

Florida is ok. If you hate cold weather its your place. There IS a difference in climate between northern Florida and Key west (furthest south). I went on a one week vacation to Key west in Sept and it was so ungodly hot out all day long every day that it takes your breath away. (I was living in Tampa at the time) and it was noticeably hotter in Key West. At 10 00 at night we would go out to dinner and take a cab even a few blocks as you just drip with sweat at all hrs. Nov to April the weather is great all over the state. Northen florida may be slightly less hot but its also redneck country. The bugs arent that bad. Being a very clean housekeeper and also having monthly pest control usually takes care of the bug problem. What I didnt like were state politics. It was very corrupt and very very right wing. South Florida is already experiencing a sea level rise issue. When it rains heavily in Ft Laud and Miami area streets are just flooded and its like driving on a river. And now at high tide at certain times of the year sea water is infiltrating low lying neighborhoods. Homeowners insurance is extremely expensive and you have to have wind coverage ( Which repairs hurricane damage) which is just astronomical. If you live in a flood zone you have to have flood insurance as well. Its boring to type it........but all the standard insurance markets have left the state and the only Homeowners insurors are smaller fly by night operations that are underfunded and if the big one hits a wide swath of the state they will all go broke and I doubt you will be fully reimbursed on any loses. The feds may make up the difference the first time, but have another wopper that is in the tens of billions and my hunch is Florida is written off and it s the new puerto rico. That is the future of Florida. Roll the dice and move there but be forewarned all your assets better not be tied up in your house.

Agree with R190 on all fronts. All of my family and many of my friends and their families live in Florida. Insurance is sky high. The heat is really unbearable (I am referencing West Palm, Fort Lauderdale and Miami regions) and yes the bugs are terrible. Those HUGE roaches might prefer to live outside, but they always, always find their way into your home and the biting mosquitoes and sandflies will kill you (literally covered in welts every day). To attempt to avoid all three nasty insects - live in a highrise on a high floor. These bugs will still find you, but in much smaller numbers...

I have a question for 35 . Why do you not like NYC anymore? I've sometimes thought about moving there

> What's the difference between life on the West and East coasts of Florida?

Q. Why do newly-retired people move to Fort Myers?

A. So they can be close to their parents (in Naples).

SW Florida teen: "The lady next door is SO OLD, she has one foot in the grave, and one on a skateboard."

Florida has two seasons... "Summer" and "January". Well, ok... we still think of 4, but it's more like "autumn starts around Thanksgiving. We get a few random days of 'winter', then Spring arrives in late February. By May, it's summer... then when July arrives, May seems downright frosty in retrospect.

R190, Miami has flooding problems, but "sea level rise" has NOTHIN6 WHATSOEVER to do with them NOW... poor maintenance of storm drains is the REAL problem.

The bug problem has really been overblown in this thread. I have not seen a palmetto bug in 2 years inside my house. I keep it cold as a deep freeze, so maybe that helps. I do have lots of bunnies in my yard, which I love...and since I moved away from the water I have seen no gators.

If you live close to a marshy like canal or retention pond, and they are everywhere, you will have gators nearby.

R194 does not live in Miami. Drainage has nothing to do with this.

On Miami Beach they are raising the levels of roads to deal with this.

There is no storm drains in the ocean or the bay, and yet the level rises.

Hot and humid as fuck. Unless your air conditioned car is parked in your air conditioned garage, you will feel like you've just gotten out of the shower by the time you get from your front door to the driver's seat.

There is very little culture. You want culture? Go to Disney.

There are churches everywhere. Outside the couple larger cities, there are rednecks everywhere. There are old people everywhere, and they drive cars... very poorly.

More convicted felons per capita than any other state.

[quote]There are churches everywhere.

To wash away the guilt of their hypocrisy.

I really enjoyed St. Pete and Tampa. Very laid back vibe, encountered little traffic, everyone was polite, neighbourhoods were clean, felt safe walking around at night, beautiful craftsman homes. I would definitely consider living on the west coast.

R196, Yes, I DO live in Miami. Sea level is a direct problem in South Beach ONLY when something like a hurricane or tropical storm causes abnormally-high tides... then, the higher average sea levels DO make enough of a difference cause flooding that wouldn't have happened under the same conditions.

The rest of the time (and 100% of the time, in mainland Miami), the flooding is due entirely to storm drain infrastructure that's inadequate for present-day development. The areas that flood the worst today (esp. Doral) flooded just as badly 25-50 years ago... which is precisely why there used to be nothing THERE besides uninhabited swamp. We allowed developers to pave and build over the areas that stormwater USED to drain into, and now it has nowhere to GO besides storm drain infrastructure that's frankly inadequate for today's demands.

It's like forest fires in California... they aren't new, it's just that they USED to happen 50 miles out of town. Now, those same areas have $10 million estate homes on 5-acre wooded lots comprising outer suburbia, so when the fires come, we really *notice*.

Does Florida have to deal with sea level rise? Absolutely. But dammit, it pisses me off when people conflate flooding that occurs due to overbuilding (with inadequate stormwater-removal infrastructure) and flooding literally due to higher sea levels. In fact, today's problems with flooding in South Beach are partially DUE to sealevel-mitigation efforts. We raised West Ave & effectively turned it into a levee to hold back water from the bay, but NOW rainwater that falls on the island has nowhere to (naturally) drain. It USED to flow into the bay. Now, it dams up east of West Ave & has to be pumped to the other side. Efforts to beef up THAT infrastructure haven't kept pace with the road-raising. Ergo, floods.

Ditto for flooding along the Miami River basin. Stormwater used to drain freely into the river & was promptly flushed out to sea. NOW, the goal is to retain the freshwater, keep it segregated from saltwater, and pump it in the OTHER direction (to the Everglades) to help refill the aquifers. The problem is, when the pumps fail & SFWMD waits too long to say, "fuck it, flush the stormwater out to sea", Central Miami (esp. the area west of 27th ave & south of 836) floods. Every major flood central Miami has had for the past 20+ years occurred because SFWMD waited too long to pull the trigger (because pulling the trigger keeps Miami neighborhoods dry, but causes water shortages that persist for months afterwards).

R137, Orlando in the summer might be hotter than Miami Beach due to the seabreeze, but I can assure you that the seabreeze doesn't extend very far inland. Coral Gables, Doral, Miramar, Pembroke Pines, Weston, Parkland, Wellington, and other cities just a few miles inland are WAY hotter than their respective beaches... and the difference is particularly extreme at night (western areas end up below an inversion layer that traps the hot, humid air).

The same inversion layer is why western suburbs in SE Florida now routinely experience LA-style smog... the sea breeze blows the downtown pollution west, then it gets trapped by a wall & ceiling of hot, humid air pushing east from the Everglades (which sort of acts like a big, dysfunctional body of water... pumping humidity into the air, without really cooling it down at all).

I moved to Miami for work after school in NY. It was hell. If you like living in a real city where people walk, bike, or take the subway, follow world affairs, and have interesting conversations, Miami (and indeed all of Florida) is not for you. Pamela Druckerman (a Miami native) captures what's wrong with her hometown quite well in this piece:

South Florida is nothing but NY/NJ with palm trees. Packed to the gills with hateful old Jews from up north who should have had their drivers licenses revoked decades ago, but are still driving and causing chaos on the streets.

"I have a question for 35 . Why do you not like NYC anymore? I've sometimes thought about moving there" Well, is not as much that I don't like NYC R192, I just don't like what has become of it. Basically a soulless, gentrified playground for the rich. For 14 (out of 24) year I had had lived in Williamsburg and Greenpoint and sadly had sadly witnesses the changes. Vibrant, multi-cultural, multi-lingual Brooklyn neighborhoods turning into polished, franchised territory. The charming coffee shops, the Blucher stores, the small boutiques are gone due to sky rocketing rents. Manhattan is even worse. Yes, it is cleaner and safer than ever, but it just doesn't have the same vibe it used to have. Well, to be perfectly honest it is still a great city. If you have never experienced it, and you are relatively young, and have no financial obstacles, I would say go for it. I'm looking form the perspective of a middle aged man, who lived and loved NYC for many years, but for me it is not the same town anymore, and the high cost of (comfortably) living there, does not justify the sacrifice. Here in Florida, I have a beautiful mortgage free townhouse with a Jacuzzi and a heated swimming pool. I drive motorcycle or a sport convertible to or through the beach daily and wouldn't give that back for anything that NYC has got to offer.

living hell

Obviously R205 has nothing better to do during the "Springtime for Hitler" intermission.

R202, i have observed the bay rising over the last decade. Do not know how you claim that is because of drainage. Maybe out in Doral that is the problem but those of us who live on the water can see the rising sea level.

Recycling of worn out cliches and trite convictions ... that's what this thread is becoming.

[quote]Recycling of worn out cliches and trite convictions

r210 that sums up the people of Florida perfectly.

THREAD CLOSED

I hope that you all do believe that Florida is a living hell without redeeming qualities.

We don't want or need any more NYers here who have a stank attitude. If you are looking for a good life with tons of natural beauty on the cheap, then come on down. But if you plan to bitch about the N.Fl Deplorables and the troublesome wildlife, FL isn't for you.

Thank you,

The Yeehaw Junction Chamber of Commerce

Using a partial quote completely out of context R211 is a true testimony to your ignorance and arrogance.

Hell with Sugar Sand beaches, alligators and jelly fish.

Did anyone live in the Miami area during the Cocaine Cowboy days? What was it like?

Do keep convincing yourself ... by looking at the picture and repeating "this is a shithole".

The 30A corridor of Florida is my favorite part of the state. It is absolutely beautiful with the charming beach towns of Rosemary Beach, Alys Beach, Seaside and others. Here is an example of one the homes in the area.

MOIST

The locals can be difficult.

Here's another from Alys Beach.

The only problem with the gators in Florida ... they are not as cute as them rats.

R220, multi-million dollar homes look great just about anywhere.

Florida has gorgeous areas, but they are all coastal. I wouldn't consider living in an inland area if you gave me the house. Avoid Orlando, Gainesville, Tallahassee , etc. like the plague. The weather is brutal if you do not at least have the sea breeze to aid in cooling (and again - the only scenic thing about Florida is the ocean). Comparing NYC to Florida cities is really comparing apples to oranges - there is no real comparison to be had there. California beaches are nicer IMO, but at least triple the cost (and in many cases, 5 to 10 times the cost). California coastal towns have better weather by far and certainly less of a bug and pest problem, but most normal people can not even imagine earning enough money to live there. Florida does offer a beach lifestyle for a somewhat reasonable cost (but oceanfront is oceanfront - and even in FL, it does not come cheap).

I don't like California beaches. The air is not salty, the humidity is too low, there are no shells or seabirds and the sand is coarse.

R221, not to worry, Florida outdoes NYC in rats as well!

^That looks like a meal to me.

Miami current temp 86 F FEELS LIKE 91°

NYC current temp 70 F FEELS LIKE 74°

That's Greetings From Trailer Park R225. Have you been anywhere else in Florida? We are not comparing Florida to NYC R223 ... we are just hinting at the cost and quality of living in both places. There are a lot of NYC transplants in places like Fort Lauderdale and being one of them ... just stating the obvious.

Of course you have rats and other rodents in Florida -- it's a tropical climate, for god's sake. What's NY's excuse?

We also have cute armadillos, iguanas, lizards, bald eagles, manatees, deer, bears, gators, roseate spoonbills, pelicans, and other fun birds and animals. What does NYC have besides squirrels, rats, pigeons, and roaches?

Lived there twice. Both times deplorable. Never again.

That gator at Circle B Park is adorable! I would love to see one that old in person. Even at Gatorland in Kissimmee the gators aren't nearly that old and prehistoric looking.

So this is simply a NYC v. Florida thread now? I liked learning about the pros and cons of Florida from insiders. NYC isn't relevant here.

The responses are just getting dumb and dumber ... please turn your brains on before reading and don't be so defensive. Some of the positive posts are pointing at the beauty of certain locations (not the whole of Florida of course), other indicate a relatively low cost of living. Some people like living here, some don't ... there are pros and cons explained by comparison with other places like NY or California. Only life on Mars would by irrelevant here.

Yesterday in Gainesville it was 94 at 3PM but felt like 106. Way too early for this!

YESSS r235, and you have these bitches on here saying NYC is more humid than NYC. Gurl bye, you need to come to Florida right now. I bet your ass would be on a plane back to New York in no time.

Today in Fort Lauderdale it is 90 at 12 pm and with the ocean breeze it feels like paradise. Way too heavenly!

The unbearably hot and humid NYC summers are hell, and the never ending winters like those of past several years are not any better. I'm not moving my ass anywhere, at anytime. Now Josephine try repeating "I'm a man, I'm a man" or I will wash that Gurl out of your mouth with Vaseline.

The answer in Florida is to always stay out of the sun. It feels much cooler in the shade, even with the high humidity.

R239 - that works even better in Southern California where you can easily cool off in the shade or really warm up in the bright sun. The humidity is less of a factor and the evenings cool off. Florida is an oven in comparison - there is really no "cool" weather to be had most of the year and the humidity is brutal. Both are fine to a percentage of the population - it just depends on what you are looking for.

I had the joy of working in Lakeland in July and August. The air conditioned building I was in was freezing and I couldn't wait to get outside to thaw.

I went on a vacation to Indian Rocks beach in March of one year. It was 40 degrees in the morning, even as the day creeped to the 60s, the wind whipped ferociously and made being outside unbearable.

I would love to know the location all this "natural beauty" of which so many of you Floridaphiles speak. Maybe 50 years ago it existed, but almost the entire coast has since been developed. Coastal Florida is now a never-ending strip of suburban sprawl while interior Florida is flat, swampy, and decidedly not scenic.

R242 is correct. I know a lot about Florida and most of my friends and relatives still live there. Most of the really breathtaking beach areas have gone condo and all of the sea oats, sea grapes, fiddlehead figs and palms were mowed down and only a memory. The huge buildings are massive, tall and sprawl almost all the way to the ocean. Vegetation was torn out and swimming pools and parking garages put in their place. Some beautiful areas still exist, but the majority were destroyed by greedy developers as the years passed. As with most states, Florida is a hot bed of government corruption (Rethugs being the worst offenders as always - but politicians from both parties were to blame for the rape of Florida's coastlines).

The one thing CA really did right is it never turned over the coastline to developers. Think of everything that could have been built on the coast in CA if allowed - it would have been non-stop condo towers from San Diego to LA, then to Santa Barbara and then up the entire coast to Pismo Beach, Monterrey, SF, and further north, and everything in between.

There is so much beauty in the areas such as Cross Creek. Beaches are just a small part of the scenery in FL.

And one person up thread linked to and wrote about the beautiful Ocala Forest with its many springs.

R244, the thing people from LA always comment on to me when they visit Miami is how in LA, no one who is not wealthy can live near the beach. They are shocked that you can pay $1,000/month rent and be walking distance to the beach.

r246 You can do that in California, too -- just not in the major metropolitan areas.

Texas has hotter weather in the summer than Florida. At least in Florida you have the pretty beaches and the Orlando amusement parks.

Right, R247. That was the whole point.

In California, you have to move outside of the city to have that kind of ready access to the beach. In Miami, in spite of all its other problems, you can live cheaply and walk to the beach every day.

R248 - that it true, but it all depends on what city in Texas. Dallas does get blazing hot, but it is a dry heat vs. humid heat. Houston is just Hell on earth and is both hot and humid. Florida is also super humid. The humidity in the air makes the heat that much hotter (IMO anyway) - there is the actual temperature and then the temperature that it "feels like" with the high humidity.percentage. Again, for those who can afford it - Southern California is your best bet all the way around. Dallas is a pretty nice city if you had to live in Texas however.

One of the few perks

Think Houston is hot and humid? Try Brownsville/McAllen 6 hours south. 100+ and 90% humidity for months with no rain. Brutal. Dream of the Florida ocean breezes and cooling thunderstorms. It’s all relative - from South Texas, Florida looks good.

Normal Florida