Margaret Atwood fights back against rush to judgment in sexual harassment allegations

What about Elizabeth Moss' powerful feminist acceptance speech quoting Atwood at the Golden Globes?

That was an excellent read. Thanks, OP!

It is an excellent read but Atwood has been stung repeatedly for it. She is being called out of touch and white and privileged and OLD. This while her books and works are enjoying unprecedented acclaim for being prescient and fiercely feminist. She dared to question the #MeToo movement's swift justice that an accusation equals guilt and ruin. Atwood is a pain in the ass sometimes, so dryly above it all. But she's hurt by this personally, I'm sure.

One does not question or - Heaven forfend! - criticize #MeToo. One submits. Silently.

She’s completely right in what she says about anyone who doesn’t toe the line being seen as a traitor. I’ve been criticised by close friends and called a bad feminist just for even daring to suggest that what the woman acussing Aziz Ansari alleges he did does not constitute sexual assault.

I’m glad that the tide is turning in regards to sexual harassment but I can’t help but feel as a woman that if we continue to allow the movement to become a puritanical witchhunt, it’s only going to damage the feminist cause in the long run.

I find that the more extreme edge of these movements often ruins them. So I agree with her. I constantly find myself feeling as though both the right and left at this point in time are frothing at the mouth crazy. Social media does not help either.

This is a case of a Milkshake Duck, isn't it?

Margaret Atwood is a treasure, and her feminist credentials are unquestionable. She is right in everything that she says, and part of the problem with social media is how reactionary everyone has become. There is a world of difference between Weinstein and Ansari, and the #Timesup Twitter warriors conflating the two just contributes to outrage fatigue and will damage their own movement.

It is good that things are changing, and that women are feeling empowered to call out abusers, but the Ansari story is a cry for attention, and an attempt to humiliate someone who is absolutely not guilty of sexual assault.

Since transitioning from male to female I've begun to notice misogyny more keenly. It's everywhere. It's nasty and there's so much of it. There's tons of it on Datalounge too.

The gay men who used to be, and still are, the focus of so much hatred and discrimination are now participating in the discrimination and hatred themselves. They've joined allegiance with the haters.

Trans folk and women are fair game for ridicule. Victims of sexual abuse are fair game too. There's plenty of victim blaming going on Datalounge.

I used to be a gay man and you supported me. Now I'm a straight transwoman and you attack me.

I despair.

Datalounge is full of bigots who just happen to be gay. "Cunt" is the most commonly used word.

Atwood has always been an irritating scold.

r9 sorry to say this but if you have been a female all your life you should have noticed the vast divide in privilege between men and women before now.

Reply to (R12).

You are correct regarding privilege. I notice the difference. What I wasn't expecting was the sheer level of hatred directed towards me coming from the LGBT community.

[quote]but the Ansari story is a cry for attention, and an attempt to humiliate someone who is absolutely not guilty of sexual assault.

This is precisely the problem. The rush to judge based on perception, popular culture and groupthink. You R8 and all of those who are dispensing summary justice are exactly the kind of dangerous mob rule to which Atwood refers.

Basically all she is saying is for women to not rush to judgement when a guy gets accused. This time is calling for a discussion not a lynching of any guy a woman may have had an uncomfortable encounter with. There are plenty of high profile women who would be happy to sit and hash this over. But no one is leading the way.

Atwood is also saying that metoo is a symptom of failures in the criminal and civil justice system. BUT metoo cannot replace a system of justice because it will inevitably become an engine of injustice and I would add a vehicle for personal gain (Sen Gillibrand anyone?). What will fellow travelers of metoo say when the false accusations are disclosed?

r9 maybe you need to become an advocate for the trans community because those that took control of it from the start have sidelined issues concerning the LGB portion of the community. You are a straight woman, I am a gay man, while both our human rights get trampled on, you now have privilege over me because you are straight. This is a big problem as you are part of a community that gets harassed for not being straight.

You catch heat from the gay community not because of who you are but because your issues are not our issues and we resent you taking over our community and putting your issues above ours. I support you in your fight and I just want my community back and I want our LGB voices to be heard.

Hi, Tranny Troll @ R9! We're talking about real women and feminism here...no one has time for your fake shaming of the gays on DL.

Good point r16. I don't see a problem with anything Atwood said but I get that right now those that control the media want it to seem like women have rushed to be radical behind #metoo. It benefits the power structure to reinforce the image of women being out of control emotionally and a threat to male dominance.

It serves the purposes of those in control to first unleash this issue into the population to mobilize and empower women, let it generate momentum, then make it look out of control in order to destroy the legitimacy of the group it was designed to give power to. It's a brilliant strategy. Because let's not forget, yes social media is powerful but those not on social media would know nothing about this if the media had not reported on it. And it would not have gained PUBLIC momentum unless given the push by the media. Who the hell follows Rose McGowan on twitter? Hardly anyone, and no one that has the power to turn her tweets into a movement.

Feminism is just a pissing contest between women over who is worthy of their respect

R9 threw the 1st brick at Stonewall.

In The Handmaid's Tale, the more vicious oppressors aren't the men, but their wives. That's who #metoo are.

This a thoughtful article.

The excitement generated over #MeToo has meant that the misandrist fringe of feminism (I say fringe, because misandry does not characterise feminism, but there is a vocal misandrist fringe) which seeks to hijack the social media movement. As a result every man accused is automatically guilty and every woman is automatically believed - and if the woman's story is ropey as hell and you doubt it - then you are victim-shaming.

The misandrists believe that all men are to blame for something anyway, hence the lack of concern over zero process or anonymous malicious accusations.

R22, exactly.

Margaret Atwood’s work is all about that. She’s been around the block and tells the truth about being a woman, even the ugliest truth. I trust her judgment.

Again r23 I have to point out that it's the media that is choosing to give the fringe a voice. I have read a lot of comments in articles and facebook with comments from women who are more in line with what Atwood is saying.

Now that this has all been stirred up it has to get shut down somehow and women's power needs to be sidelined again. The way to do that is by making it look like the fringe is in control and what could have been a great moment to shift things for women instead will give good reason to demonize them as man hating, crazy and unfit for power

We can't keep letting the media get away with this. They gave us Trump, they are fueling the female fringe be nice if someone called them out.

it's funny that the left, or even the right keep, blaming fringes within their own circles...when most of them are actually enablers of those fringes

[quote]It serves the purposes of those in control to first unleash this issue into the population to mobilize and empower women, let it generate momentum, then make it look out of control in order to destroy the legitimacy of the group it was designed to give power to.

Are you for real? I don't think you are, but I don't want to assume.

Atwood probably knows far more about the subject than all of those #MeToo-ers.

Very reasonable and well-thought-out article from Meghan Murphy at Feminist Current:

Ansari deliberately put himself out there as a "male feminist." My God, it's almost his whole shtick. I mean, if you do that and then treat your dates like mindless meat puppets, yeah, it'll probably come back and bite you on the ass.

If this article had been about, say, Charlie Sheen, I could understand people being like, "Well, duh!" But Ansari literally became famous and made a living off being a "sensitive guy."

Well, he's a nerdy type. A lot nerdy types, male and female, see themselves as sensitive. Just because he was more off base then he realized doesn't mean he deserves such a pile on.

The Handmaid's Tale TV show's press always baffles me. They try to sell it as a tale of woman being enslaved by men...........yet it is really a story of the rich using the poor and not unlike the surrogate mother's many wealthy people use today. Some of the women are even worse then the men.

The Murphy article is good. No small part of the conversation comes across as the older generation saying it's business as usual and the younger generation saying they won't tolerate it.

R29 Let's also talk about Faux Confidence Culture, millennial women who are sassy loud mouths, thinking they are Disney Princesses and want to tell everyone what they want and how they want it, until they're behind closed doors and suddenly they're little victims. If you're an independent woman and not regressive, taking us back to Victorian times then speak your fucking mind.

Abby Nierman was pretty fucking cocky to post to Twitter that Aziz was her "Attacker" and then to go to that half-wit "journalist" Katie Way and tell her "terrifying" story.

In the moment though, she told him "let's take it slow", not "No!". Aziz is 5'6" nerdy guy and as soon as he got she wasn't down he backed off. This is her lack of confidence, not his "evil man ways".

As much as Men & Society need to change rape culture, Women need to step up and quit being deceitful about their intentions. You wanted a free dinner and a date with a celeb? Cool. You don't want to fuck him though? Cool. Say so.

r29, sorry but she lost me at this:

[quote]I mean, goodness, what woman wouldn’t feel hurt at learning their date has no interest in them as a person?

A lot of other women wouldn't, who didn't project their own neediness and desire to be famous by proxy and just wanted a hook-up. This is about the pendulum swinging way too far the other way. These women don't want equality, they want exclusivity, i.e. they get to define all the terms in ways that benefit them, regardless of others' rights.

[quote] She is being called out of touch and white and privileged and OLD. ... But she's hurt by this personally, I'm sure.

Oh I am sure! She probably had no idea she's old at seventy-eight! I am sure those words wounded her to the core!

[quote] Very reasonable and well-thought-out article from Meghan Murphy at Feminist Current:

I stopped reading at the phrase "rape culture."

The Feminist Current article is sensationalist claptrap capitalizing on a man's downfall for a few tired points.

R36 has far from a first class mind. What a strange thing to highlight and post. Do you know anything of Margaret Atwood? I bet not. OLD is not just a number when you are one of the most influential women in the world, a great writer and a well known political voice. And that voice is feminist. Try reading her life's work you fool.

It's like someone publishing that you're not a good cocksucker R36. Can you imagine? That's who you are and what you're known for, your life's work.

The issue Atwood addresses, in BC, was and is one helluva mess. That aside, she comes across as using the shady tactic of distorting her critics' views -- "Why, they make me out to be the love child of Tammy Faye Bakker and Chuck Manson, insist that I get stuffed into a wood-chipper." -- to make her critics look preposterous.

r40 have you read the hashtags on this?

She's not distorting her critics' views, depending on whom you define as her critics. If you mean the social media pile on, then she's not exaggerating. If you're referencing other authors or the Galloway travesty that's different, IMHO.

R37, I couldn’t get through it either. All that Tumblr jargon irritates me.

There are a lot of young females that are more cocky then your rich frat-boy types.

They have the added power of using their switching female guiles and 'victimhood' status too.

Confound those wiley minxes! Vamps, I says VAMPS!

Punch a broad in the mouth for equality.

Punch a broad in the box, I say!

[quote] Because let's not forget, yes social media is powerful but those not on social media would know nothing about this if the media had not reported on it. And it would not have gained PUBLIC momentum unless given the push by the media.

I disagree. Social Media has become more powerful now. The Aziz story was blowing up all over social media and the MSM happened to pick it up. What are they supposed to do? Ignore it? Their job is to bring out the news. I think you have too much "conspiracy tea" in your drink and that TPTB manipulated this whole thing. This was just an inevitable response from overzealous and very immature young white women who feel entitled to ride the #MeToo movement.

I guess I'm not seeing why all women are supposed to follow the opinions and theories of some noteworthy feminist.

That's now how sociocultural studies or philosophies work. I mean, if a noted but older gay witer and philosopher said something old fashioned, we wouldn't all be expected to bow down and accept his word as gospel.

It's awfully interesting to see how many older women are upset that this generation is trying to negotiate better boundaries and behavior. If we can create norms for sexual behavior in the LGBT community then let the hets do it, too.

R47, the media happily ignores news if it fits their agenda, or have you forgotten what happened during the election?

This was a silly blog post style story that should have gone mostly ignored after a brief "I'm sorry and I'll do better" reply from Ansari. But the media wanted backlash so they jumped at the chance, and now the violent, hateful, threatening responses are proving the points these women were making in the first place.

The media will conveniently forget to mention that, until some longform pieces come out in a few weeks or months.

Right, r30. That's what happened to Jian Ghomeshi, too, though obviously he was hurting women physically whole Ansari was just doing those creepy straight guy things to get laid.

* while, not whole

What did Margaret Atwood say that was old fashioned R48? She certainly presented nothing as gospel. Please be more specific in your criticism. What new norms have gay people come up with regarding sexual behavior and how does that apply to a male and female sexual encounters? You statements are high minded but too vague to mean anything. Are you the tranny out here? Margaret Atwood was not responding to the Aziz situation. It hadn't even come to light. Did you even read her Globe and Mail article?

I couldn’t understand a word she wrote,. Give me Stephen King any day of the week over this foreign, pretentious haroy.

True R11 and she's always been totally clueless about issues that actually effect women, and women's rights.

Since giving up all gender identifications and display and any sexual preferences whatsoever, and becoming a living Vionnet bias cut organism, my sexual consciousness has expanded and I personally cannot imagine harassment, as such energies pass right through me.

However rape rape still exists.

R54...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Try harder, troll.