A Salute To Effeminate Gay Guys

Effeminate gays are all set to become a thing of the past. Any boys who now show the slightest feminine quality are being told they are trans and frocked up.

Just like the Typewriter, there won’t be fem guys in years to come. Just more really tall, strange looking women.

queeny 4 yr old boys wear princess costumes and wear lipstick these days, prepping them for the big switch!

I hate hearing how femmy guys are authentic gays or that they're the most courageous of gay men. Most of them are so narcissistic and camp it up for the attention. They could act normal if they wanted to, but then, of course, the spotlight wouldn't be on them.

[quote]They could act normal if they wanted to

No, that is just not true. You can "act normal," maybe, but people can tell.

Thanks, OP. But, I consider my flames a gift. I salute you back. Happy, Healthy New Year!

Can they though R3?

I'm thinking of all those kids who were the "sissy boy" from kindergarten onwards, who never fit in with other boys and were always friends with girls.

I don't think they're putting on an act.

That said, there are guys who do play it up or become that way after they come out because they think that's what being gay is all about. With assimilation and acceptance, that's changing rapidly however.

"They could act normal if they wanted to, but then, of course, the spotlight wouldn't be on them."

Hey, Princess Pissypanties at R3: what exactly is your definition of "normal" and who the fuck appointed you to make the definition. Sounds like a bunch of Naziesque social engineering going on in your feverish, feeble little mind.

And just an FYI: it takes a fame whore to know a fame whore.

Why bother R6? Hit block. 😊 It’s 2018! Leave those sacks of shit in 2017.

To quote Madonna, express yourself! Hey, hey!

That's what it is about. Express yourself, be yourself, be proud of yourself.

I believe only when you embrace 100% of yourself you are ready to give, and receive, 100%.

Can the flames be used to start fires, ala Drew Barrymore in Firestarter? Perhaps that's the secret plot behind it all, to make a gay SO FLAMING that he can set fire to things, and thus he can be used as a military-grade weapon. He can go undercover in terrorist cells and then perform a show-stopping dance number for them, which sets them all on fire during the Big Finish.

yeah, r3, and you could be "normal", too; just start dating women instead of men. The effeminate guys get enough harassment from straight society. It's so sad to see them also insulted by other gays.

[quote]It's so sad to see them also insulted by other gays.

I’m a feminine gay guy and I only get harrassment from closeted gay men. Never openly gay.

Not even masculine openly gay men.

I think he meant on DL, R12

Sadly, too many on DL have a problem understanding there's a whole continuum of people in the world.

Super-queeny guys crave attention. The thirst is real for those bitches. And Femmy, please define "harassment." I'm guessing that's code for "rejection" from masc dudes. Gay guys who fly under the radar can't help it if they're only attracted to other masc bros and not nelly little queens.

It’s the same everywhere, online in real life. All the same hate.

Oh I think I we know who is to blame for us not being able to have nice things.

I haven't really read any comments slamming femme gay guys, just a bunch of people bemoaning how much DL "hates" femme gay guys. Maybe it's a self-fulfilling prophecy?

While the US version of QAF was basically a bad soap opera jammed in between a bunch of softcore sex scenes designed to turn on fraus, it did sometimes bring up how much tougher things were for the one super femme guy, as he really stood out, and it did serve its purpose of making me realize that.

Fast forward to last year and I stumbled on a video of one of the showrunners talking about how the scene was based on some guy he knew who was super femme to the point where he realized he was embarrassed to be seen out in public with him and how shallow that was.

All well and good, except my friend and I are watching the video wondering how anyone could be *more* femme than the showrunner, who made Richard Simmons and Liberace look butch. And how he could not realize that.

Takeaway was that "femme" is often relative.

So I'm a regular straight acting masc bro. You'd never know I was gay. I like sports, beer, tailgate parties, carbs and I wear dockers lol. Oh and I have an office with a door lol. I can't quote Joan Crawford or Betty Davis movies (never even seen one of them) and I've never taste an appletini. I'm sorry if it's not PC, but I am not going to fake attraction to one of them because it's the right thing to do.

I don't think anyone is asking you to fuck one of them, or even date one R21

Just realize that they get shit for being gay every waking minute and that it's a lot harder for them than for you.

That doesn't mean you need to find them hot or even hang out with them.

[quote]To quote Madonna

“I’d kill fags that hate women.”

r21 you seem to be trying to emulate a "straight bro" gay stereotype, probably in an attempt to counteract my comment in r19. And not a very good job of it either.

r20 that's a good point, keep in mind Andy Cohen thinks he's butch.

“Masc bro” is such a nelly thing to call oneself.

As a gay man, I have nothing against femme gay men, and am friends with several, but I do thank the stars that I’m not the way.

When was the last time you heard femme looking for another femme? If you're femme do you ever have endless daydreams of your future husband also being super femme that he makes Ross Matthews sound like a diesel?

r21, it's fine if you're a macho dudebro who only wants to date other macho dudebros. But can't you do that without saying mean and nasty shit about other gays who have a harder time than you do because they don't "pass".

r27, there's someone for everyone. It sounds like you're trying to trigger less macho guys into depression. You sound like a gay boy who was teased a lot as a kid, so you managed to superficially butch yourself up so that you could then, in turn, tease others who were less butch than you. That makes you a Kapo, an Uncle Tom, and worse...

For real R24? That's crazy. I don't know much about Cohen, but was watching the NYE show last night and thinking how he reminded me of the fat guy from Modern Family.

Ironically, I think many straight people are more tolerant and accepting of femmy guys than they are of traditionally masculine gay guys. Femmy guys are asexual and don't challenge their perception of gay men, so these types of guys are less threatening to straights than masc guys who fly under the radar.

R31 This is false. "Feminine" guys cramp straight mens style.

r31, "feminine" guys do not "cramp" or in anyway impact straight men's "style". First off, straight men have no style. Second, you sound like a childish closet-case. What the fuck are you so afraid of?

r32, I think just the opposite. Straight men are threatened by straight-acting gay men. When they see gay guys who appear and act similar to them, they can start imagining themselves as gay, and that idea is too threatening. They're much more comfortable with the "amusing" and "minstrel-ish" gay guys.

R33 Everybody has a style, halfwit. What does the closet have to do with being feminine? Stop associating homosexuality with being feminine will you? It's 2018. If you want to live in some fantasy world that straight men want to hang out with feminine guys (gay OR straight) continue on but reality is reality.

Wholeheartedly agree with op. The true trailblazers that weren't afraid to be themselves. It took me many years to realize this. Cheers to the ultra-fems!

It always comes down to femme = inferior and masc = superior. And the weird argument that feeme guys FORCE these, poor straight acting masc guys to be more femme and pretend to be what they are not by acting all girly. Or FORCE these poor straight acting masc guys to explain and prove to their straight peers that they are like those femme guys and it's oh-so exhausting having to convince those straight peers of how masculine they are whenever some femme guy is around, because femme guys are so darn powerful to convince those straigth peers that the poor, straight acting masc guy is really just a nelly queen.

Gay guys, comfortable with themselves, don't give a fuck how other guys act or express themselves. And they trust their friends and others to know and accept their gay friend the way he is.

sorry:

Or FORCE these poor straight acting masc guys to explain and prove to their straight peers that they are NOT like those femme guys

Sorry for missing NOT in my original comment at r37

R34 Straight men associate feminine quality with weakness. Yes they might not have an overall problem with feminine guys because they find them less threatening but as for someone they'd probably get along with better; it's typically a masculine gay men. And let's face it if a gay men is making them question their sexuality; they weren't straight to begin with, masculine or feminine. Feminine qualities in men in still taboo in the heterosexual world

Feminine qualities are becoming less and less taboo in the heterosexual world. On sitcoms and reality TV, and the news, we see straight men (even Obama) openly crying and hugging each other. No straight man would never do that in public in the 1950s. Boys can wear pink, the emo trend encouraged men to show their vulnerability. The 1950s notion of manly men and girly girls is over.

What's funny is that the guys who celebrate their "masc dudebro status" are still seen as "nelly" by straights. You can dress a certain way and walk a certain way, but your voicemail greeting and your smile will give you away every time. But keep pretending that you're more special than other types of gays, if it makes you feel better.

R40 Since when is crying feminine? Or even wearing pink for that matter? I don't know if it's the millennial in me talking but that's never been feminine for me. And even so, if you're an overall "masculine" guy who exhibits some feminine qualities that's fine but I think we see a clear difference between Obama and Frankie Grande.

r40, that's why sport was / is so popular. Guys could show affection to their teammates when they made a goal, the male audience could hug and cheer when their sport's team won, etc. But of course it was no homo stuff. Back in the days there was a lot of "boys don't cry" pressure to act a certain way. Especially in public. But sport events was an exception where certain stuff was ok.

I'm with R42 on the wearing pink thing.

Grew up with guys wearing pink button downs all the time and pink-ish red shorts and khakis too.

Had no idea that was considered "gay" until DL-- it was always considered "preppy"

Don't do that R41

Not sure why some femme guys feel the need to proclaim that every gay guy is either a screaming queen or massively suppressing it, but you and I both know that's not true. There are plenty of gay guys who no one would pick up on unless they said "my boyfriend" or similar.

That doesn't make them better humans or better homosexuals, but denying they exist is pretty silly.

Without the feminine gays there would be no drag queens to entertain us.

[quote]Not sure why some femme guys feel the need to proclaim that every gay guy is either a screaming queen or massively suppressing it, but you and I both know that's not true.

I think some masc gay guys should take a good look at themselves and ask themselves why they are so bothered by what femme guys do and think. If they know who they are what does it take some femme guy to get so angry and defensive about their masculinity?

If they know who they are WHY does it take some femme guy to get so angry and defensive about their masculinity?

Sorry about the the mixup with what and why.

No one's getting angry and defensive R48

But it makes anything you say sound ridiculous when you go down that route and it makes you sound angry and defensive.

I don't proclaim to be "undetectable" but I am aware there are plenty of guys who are.

r49, and I am sure they are so happy you took it upon yourself to defend their honor that they will let you blow them later.

R50 Is bitter asf

Seriously R51

And NOBODY likes a bitter queen.

Sure, call me bitter, but it's just interesting that some poster has to defend some group he, apparently is not part of. But NO he's not angry or defensive at all! And calling me bitter as fuck, that's the best he can do? Bitch, yes, Bitch! Please.

Acknowledging the existence of ISIS terrorists is now the equivalent of defending them.

Noted.

"Sure, call me bitter, but it's just interesting that some poster has to defend some group he, apparently is not part of. "

So being an animal rights advocate makes them bold eagles?

r55, sure. If those eagles need someone to speak for them since they don't feel like they have a voice or say in this discussion.

I'm lucky that I'm undetectable. I had strong straight male role models that helped to mold me into the traditional man that I am. I'm proud to be gay, but I don't need to go around proclaiming it from the rafters like many nellie queens need to do. They're starved for the attention..."look at me!" LOOK AT ME!!". I just happen to prefer sleeping with men rather than women, but aside from that, I'm no different from the average straight guy. If I were a nellie queen, I'd probably need to be on antidepressants and anxiety meds for life.

r55 are you saying that effeminate gay guys' voices are so high-pitched that you cannot hear them speak? That's offensive.

Who were your role models growing up, R57?

R57 Truman Capote Paul Lynde Charles Nelson Reilly

My father, my uncle, and my older brother. They were strong masculine straight men. Both my dad and my uncle were tough military guys who saw action in Vietnam. My brother was in the army and is now a cop. These men tought me how to be and act like a man, despite being gay.

Whoever said femmes don't like femmes is completely correct. I see them in relationships all the time. Seems to work for many of them. Also not sure why masc and fem are binaries when there are a billion points on the scale in between.

Personally, and I've said this before, I like fem guys who are naturally that way, and you can tell when someone is just being himself versus putting on an act.

R57 Are you a bottom or are you versatile?

[quote]These men tought me how to be and act like a man, despite being gay.

Wow. They really helped you overcome this great hurdle, that is being gay, in order to become a real man. Congrats.

This is why people, to this day, have self loathing issues, because they are convinced that being gay is shameful and prevents them from being a real man. Because they are raised with the belief that a real man is someone who is straight and can do manly stuff and gays are un-manly and can only do girly stuff.

OP, Mike Pence and his ilk hate trans people as much as they hate gays. It's conservatives passing all the anti-trans laws, not liberals. You just don't want to admit you are as far to the right as Pence

I think some gay guys think being gay mean use excessive make up and act like black girls...i feel bad about them.

r66, why? It's their life and their own choice of doom (according to you).

Well, R66, you’re on a gossip site specializing in “bitchery” so you might as well wear makeup.

R61, I know plenty of nelly guys who had macho dads, uncle's, etc. Studies show most personality traits are inborn, it has little to do with how you were raised.

I salute the fems. They give the best head and ride the best dick.

I'm a gay guy who apparently isn't obvious: when I tell people, they always seem surprised. On the other hand, my ex (who I still love) is one of those guys who can't really hide it. He's one of the smartest, strongest and kindest guys I've ever known. So I certainly appreciate femme guys.

I would think masc guys would love to hook up with femme guys, because it makes them feel like the real man / superior / top in the relationship?

I imagine with other masc guys it's a constant struggle of who is the real man / superior / top / alpha male in the relationship and it can only end in tears?

I mean I can't imagine any of the masc posters going through the trauma of having to be a beta for some alpha stud after all of their lives they could pass as alpha male themselves.

Well it’s complicated, R72. For one thing, a fake alpha always recognizes when he’s around the real thing and vice versa, so he might put up a front but when they’re in private he’s more submissive to the big dog. But also an alpha might enjoy wrestling and fighting with his boy over who’s the actual big dog, even if one mostly always wins over the other.

And while the submissiveness of femmes is great in the bedroom, it’s outside the bedroom where EVERYTHING ELSE can get on your goddamn nerves. It’s like being with a woman. Drives me nuts.

They are great, when they are naturally effeminate. When they are alpha males hiding underneath a fake womanly exterior that they think gives them a license to be mean, not so much.

[quote]And while the submissiveness of femmes is great in the bedroom, it’s outside the bedroom where EVERYTHING ELSE can get on your goddamn nerves. It’s like being with a woman. Drives me nuts.

But isn't that what real men do? Put up with lot of shit from their female spouses, because they satisfy them in the bedroom? aka pussy whipped?

R75 Moron men. Bitchy behavior is not a well received and only the really really attractive can get away with that shit which even then doesn't always promise he'll stay.

[QUOTE]But isn't that what real men do?

Then I guess I’m not a real man afterall.

I Just flew a spirit airlines flights. The two male flight attendants were the biggest queens I’d ever seen in my whole entire life. They danced in the aisles with there hands in the air, told wisecracks about enDora. One of them gave a test which we all failed. And in general were a barrel of laughs. i wanted to hate it but the schtick was genuinely funny and they seemed to be loving it. So IF you don’t take yourselves too seriously and think you're channeling Ava Gardner then queen it the fuck up

You wanted to hate it? Why?

Because they’re f-ggots, R79. And, I post on a gossip site, so I’m not all man either, so fuck me.

Femmy guy=a feminized brain + testosterone. The former makes these types drift toward traditionally female endeavors like clothes shopping and baking and scrapbooking, and taking on female mannerisms and gestures. The latter drives their libido and makes the voice deep. The most cringeworthy manifestation of the feminized brain/testosterone hybrid is the voice.

R80 Go away stupid homophobe

You referring to Harvey Feuerstein R81?

My best hookups have been with married straight guys who need a dick now and then. They're effortlessly masculine and don't overcompensate on the outside (with huge showy muscles) for the masculinity they're lacking on the inside. That quality is incredibly attractive. If my experience counts for anything, I've hardly known any gay man with the sort of innately effortless masculinity displayed by most straight guys.

R84, those guys aren't straight

[quote]You wanted to hate it? Why?

no, because it was totally inappropriate, it was a late night flight. Like I said, i thought, geez, cut the shit, guys. but it was genuinely funny. they were sweet too and gave a genuine prize to one middle-seater picked at random and a birthday girl got a chocolate cake. it started out looking like showboating and ended up being rather heart-warming.

A feminine gay men can be trained to be masculine in order to save face. Black people can't be trained to be white.

^^Say it again!

lol A feminine gay man can be trained to be masculine to save face. Black people can't be trained to be white.

Also there were schools in the 60's where boys and girls were sent to behave proper. Girls were trained and instructed to be feminine and boys were trained and instructed to be masculine. I can't recall any schools where a black person went in and came out white.

Here's a real man for you ladies...

R87, some guys are beyond training. You can't erase gayface and gayvoice through schooling.

Effortlessly masc

A millennial's caftan and tassle

R91 if women can do it so as to pass as men in middle eastern countries where women have no rights then western feminine gay men can as well.

How about being aware of the society and culture in which you live, and understanding that around the world, faggy gay men are pilloried and persecuted, and maybe doing some self-work and not being so outwardly fem? You draw attention to yourself and you reap what you sow. You will not be embraced by anyone, ever. Work on your mannerisms and just be a normal fucking guy who loves fucking guys in his private life. End of story.

Dunno R95

I used to think it would be pretty easy, you know, plenty of people are able to lose an accent.

But DL is filled with tales of guys who have tried to change their voices and mannerisms and failed. There's a whole movie about it--can't think of the title right now, but I'm sure someone on here will know.

R92 masc for Masque

I am not sure if I'd fuck him but I have a crush on this dude. As long as there are hairdressers and Project Runway, there is room for some effeminacy in gay men. He's funny as hell and I find him really cute. Not my usual type at all. I'd like to shut him up, aka fuck him. It's a new year!

But does anyone want to get fucked by a nellie?

If there's anything I've learned about DL posters in the 15+ years I've been lurking here is the that a lot of the DL's posters lack any kind of self awareness, i.e. the "I'm 80 but I could easily pass for 25" crowd.

I'm guessing a large number of these "I could pass for straight" queens belong in this group as well.

pretty much

r100, wait, you thought these posters didn't joke about that? Do you also believe that most Dataloungers wear earrings and caftans and are indeed basement dwellers?

R78. What have you got against Ava?

I hate gay guys who camp it up. To me that screams insecure, childish, ego-centric and needy, none of which I find attractive in the least. Give me a real man. My longest relationship was with an electrician. Very traditionally masculine. Authentically rugged. Amazing in bed. He had been married to a woman before coming out. This type of guy is a needle in a gaystack. We used to go to bars and make fun of the nelly queens. Good times.

"How about being aware of the society and culture in which you live, and understanding that around the world, faggy gay men are pilloried and persecuted, and maybe doing some self-work and not being so outwardly fem? You draw attention to yourself and you reap what you sow. You will not be embraced by anyone, ever. Work on your mannerisms and just be a normal fucking guy who loves fucking guys in his private life. End of story."

Studies show "gayface" is real - it's not just about how you talk and present yourself that makes others perceive you as gay. And how are naturally fem guys drawing attention to themselves?They are just being themselves. Weird that someone would post something like this on a bitchy gossip site. If you are so butch, why are you here?

[quote]The 1950s notion of manly men and girly girls is over.

It was on borrowed time in the 1970s. At least then second-wave feminists offered a sensible argument against sexual stereotypes, not a denial of the physical differences between men and women the third wave would bring about.

I find anyone who refers to themselves as "masc" completely unfuckable. Even worse if they add bro to it. Grow up, be a fucking adult, and use whole words. Are you masc while eating your veggies?

I don't really care if a guy is super hyper masculine or not. If he is good-looking, and is comfortable with who he is I don't care if he is a little queen. I'm not talking about shrieking cartoonish queens, just regular guys with more "feminine" traits.

I also think that I might be the only homo in the world that doesn't lust after straight guys. Sure, I fantasize about actors, and hot models, but I'm never going to get with those guys anyway. If I find out a guy I meet is straight, I lose all sexual interest. Why lust over someone who is never going to reciprocate? The best I could hope for is that he might use me as a sex toy if he's hard up enough, or drunk enough? No thanks.

R107 I'm most of the way with you. More important to me than gender conformity or looks (I'm no prize in that department) is intelligence, curiosity, empathy, and kindness. All the rest is negotiable. A "feminine" man with those traits can be someone I love and feel attracted to. Scripted masculinity is boring and more than a little ludicrous to me. And I've been with same guy for 23 years.

I like scruffy hairy guys who are a little bit fey, so sexy!

Femininity is a dick wilter. If I wanted to be with a fish, then I'd be with one. I want a man in every sense of the word.

r109 , Kimono My House!

[/bold]

Hear hear r28.

Salute

Bet the guy in R98 gives tremendous head.

Don't tell me you wouldn't pound his ass from here to kingdom come.

I picked up a femmy guy at Sidetracks in Chicago a few weeks ago and things didn't go exactly as I had planed. He turned out to have a huge dick and tore my ass up. I don't usually bottom but when someone is that persistent and that hung.

Thanks for sharing R117!

We built this city...

I agree OP

It's easy for those of us who "pass" to forget what very femme guys go through on a daily basis, how in every interaction they have with the world, especially interactions with strangers, even the most clueless understans that they're gay and all the baggage that brings with it.

Also blown away by the R24's assertion (no doubt correct) that A. Cohen considers himself butch.

In the valley of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

That's why it's more challenging to bigots to see a gay guy who doesn't fit into that stereotype, R120.

Effeminate guys are authentic gays. Anyone trying to butch it up is easily detectable and comes off as phony.

That's another way of saying it's only okay to be gay if you conform to homophobic stereotypes, R123.

No R123

You're no more "authentic" than anyone else.

Black guys who dress and speak "street" are no more "authentic" than Corey Booker

Italian guys in wife beaters and gold chains with heavy Brooklyn accents are no more "authentic" than Paul Giamatti.

You're just more easily identifiable to bigots and to people who don't know very many gays as you fit into their stereotype.

Let em be. Let em live their lives.

Gays who don't fit into that stereotype not only ask the same, R126, we demand it.

One of the great things about the changes over the past 10-15 years is that younger guys no longer think they need to remake themselves into screaming queens in order to be gay.

[quote]It must be a lot like being black--you're always black no matter what you do, in every minor transaction.

Zzzzz...

As a lifelong flamer,who still flames,just not as brightly ,I used to laugh at all those butch queens talking shit as I traipsed out the door with a hot number. being femme may have gotten me derision and scorn a few times,but overwhelmingly it got me laid plenty! More than 90% of you bitches on here,id bet money on it.

Everyone has both masculine and feminine qualities even the most jacked up dudebro straight guy. Anyone saying any sign of femininity in a guy is a turn off sounds like an idiot since every guy has something.

The dudebro gays who hate femmes learn their own "masculine traits" from OTHER dudebro gays, so their "masculine traits" don't really match up to authentic straight "masculine traits" by real dudebro straights. That is why you see a lot of posturing: muscles, tattoos, etc. So, it's a big denial to themselves to say they're truly "masculine", in a world where straight "masculinity" is accepted. I've dated two femme dudes before. They were a fucking delight.

At least make-up is easier to take off than a tattoo.

I dated a femme asian guy a few years back. There was immediate sexual heat, so I thought I'd pursue it. I'd never dated a femme or Asian before. We had sex on the first date. He was so pretty and a voracious bottom. I gave him exactly what he needed, I guess. Big mistake in hindsight. By the second date, he was buying me expensive gifts, and after two weeks he was declaring his undying love for me and wanted to move in with me and be a monogamous couple. I'm not sure if it's because he was femme, Asian, or maybe both, but he was a very suffocating individual and I vowed then and there never to date a femme or Asian guy ever again.

Maybe ElderGays R132, but younger gay guys don't feel the need to give up their straight friends any more and just as often don't know a whole lot of gay guys.

Because every femme Asian bottom has exactly the same personality R134

I'm not sure how you'd even be able to tell them apart.

I salute the femme guys who are being themselves, be they the shy sissy or the over the top drag queen. We are diverse.

Most over-the-top drag queens aren't so much "being themselves" as following a pre-set template of manufactured outrageousness.

R138, do I really need to clarify? Being themselves means dressing how they choose. Whether it's Bianca Del Rio or an imitator, they are they walking out of the house in heels because the are living THEIR lives instead of being afraid of what people may think. Does that make sense?

What if they don't like wearing heels because they hurt, and what if they don't like wearing fake eyelashes because real ones are prettier, and what if they don't like wearing make-up because it's got too many toxic chemicals in it?

I'm not saying don't do it if that's what you actually enjoy doing — though after actually wearing heels in public as part of a Halloween costume, I agree with Mrs. Doubtfire that whoever invented them must have been a misogynist — but I draw the line at anyone claiming that femininity is the same as womanhood.

The one effeminate guy I banged was very much into it. For starters he was clean and also was quite mouthy and intense. The straight bro I banged was a lifeless fish and then he cried after and whined ,,,

[quote]The straight bro I banged

LMAO

Love that sissy hole!

Femme guys tend to be extremely needy, and that manifests itself in bed, where they expect you plow them balls deep and hit every sensitive spot every fucking time.

As a fan admirer and lover of all fabulous effeminate men out there, I join you OP in saluting them.

[quote]R141 The straight bro I banged was a lifeless fish and then he cried after and whined ,,,

Well, you do have to let them out of their cages occassionally....

A lot of straight guys are butch on the streets and femme in the sheets. I had a straight FB once. Really butch, into sports. It was bro this and bro that. Got him in the bedroom, and he squealed like a pig in heat. The butch thing is a facade for a lot of straight dues who get it on with other dudes.

I like femmy guys. And they don't always get treated badly, usually just by ignoramuses.

That would be one guy R147

Not "a lot of"

I'm pretty femme, and I've recently found myself drawn to this super-hot mascdudebro who just joined the gym. I can't make out if he's gay or straight. I suspect the latter, because he doesn't steam/sauna/shower after his workout. I want to approach him, start chatting with him, but I think my voice will give me away that I'm gay, so whether he's gay or straight, he'll probably be repulsed and want nothing to do with me.

Effeminacy is a spectrum where flamboyance and campiness are an extreme within effeminacy. So, not all effeminate men show exaggerated mannerisms. Likewise, masculinity and femininity are also a spectrum.

There are studies that show that flamboyance and campiness may be signs of histrionic personality disorder, an affectation also common among women. Some usual signs are attention-seeking behaviour, being overdramatic, promiscuity and sexualised behaviour which may explalin why many flamboyant/camp gay men act in a sexualised way like a pop diva in a music video.

Things like repression or psychological abuse can cause histrionic personality disorder. When a flamboyant or camp gay men is so "in your face" you can pretty much tell there is something that bothers him on a psychological level that he exteriorises in the form of exaggerated behaviour.

[quote] There are studies that show that flamboyance and campiness may be signs of histrionic personality disorder

Such as…?

R150 You could learn American Sign Language, and pretend to be a mute (?)

Or just present. Without a word.

Do you date other effeminate men too? R150

What's so unmanly about listening to female singers and preferring comfortable fabrics to uncomfortable ones?

Is there really a clash between masculine and effeminate gay men? I don't see them fighting in real life at all. I think things have been sensasionalised in recent years.

The only conflict is when it comes to sex and romance since most homosexual men seem unattracted to effeminacy, but outside the sphere of sex and romance they can and many are friends and are capable of respectful communication.

What woman acts like "effeminate" gay men?

DDDggg

R151, many psychologists don't even believe histrionic personality disorder is real. And being effeminate is not the same thing as being histrionic or attention-seeking

So he was there again last night, but I couldn't work up the nerve to approach him. He was decked out in his mascdudebro "uniform" (backwards cap...check; compression pants...check), he'd probably laugh at me for even breathing the same air as him. I'm so intimidated by him, it's ridiculous, which makes me wants him that much more. Most of the gay guys who look like him fool around in the sauna/steam post-workout, but he does not.

You don't read well. Effeminacy is a spectrum and on the extreme, flamboyance and campiness are sometimes signs of histrionic personality disorder and these forms of expression are usually accompanied by overly dramatic emotionality, shallowness or attention-seeking behaviour among other characteristics. R160

r162, you don't read well. Histrionic personality disorder isn't even real, this was brought up at the Jerry Sandusky trial when the psychologist hired by his defense team laughably tried to use "histrionic personality disorder" to explain the love letters he sent to a teenage boy. And "campiness" was never part of the histrionic diagnosis, anyway.

You don't read well. I said they may be signs; not direct indication of R163

I cringe when guys act too nelly, but the alternative is even sadder. When you make a sis act butch they seem so forlorn. They absolutely NEED to flounce and sass to live.

r164, you don't read well. ANYTHING can be a "sign" of histrionic personality disorder if you interpret behavior through a biased lens. You seem really dim.

I love fem dudes

I would do any of these Queens. I love guys with a sense of humor.

Femmies are sad souls. So much subconscious internal conflict. They're essentially women trapped in men's bodies.

R169 You're stupid, man. There's butch lezzies and there's femme lezzies. Why can't there be effeminate gays and masculine ones? You gotta be insecure as fuck if this bothers you, babe.

It's stupid bullshit like R169 which is why trans is so prevalent these days.

No, not everything can be a sign OF HPD; only certain traits just like not everybody is bipolar. R166

I find it funny that some people are so insecure that they feel threatened by others expressing themselves. Like, what's it to you? Who gave you the order that you have to put your nose in other people's, public or private, business? All this "stop what you are doing / stop being the way you are! / stop expressing yourself in such an embarrassing way, you make ME look bad!" is just stupid. The sooner we give up this obsession of trying to control(l) others and focus on ourselves instead and just be more compassionate and "live and let live" the sooner the world will be a much, much better place.

Femmes embarrass some gay men the way rednecks embarrass some Southerners, Chavs embarrass some Brits, ghetto blacks embarrass some African-Americans.

There's this feeling that "people are going to look at these over the top clowns and think that we're all like this."

And while shows like "Modern Family" would certainly seem to support that fear, it's really just a reflection of the hater's own insecurities. Like R173 said, live and let live and stop worrying about what others think.

And yes OP, I agree that *very* femme guys are more frequently in situations where strangers are aware of their sexuality and in a position to judge them for it than the rest of us.

Some people take shows like Modern Family way too serious. Just take it easy and laugh at yourself every now and then. Life isn't supposed to be so darn serious and you don't have to demand that the people around you and the group, you consider yourself part of, represents you 100%. You represent yourself, nobody else can or should do that for you ... without your permission at least.

Although the stereotypical fraction is usually the one that has ideas of homogeinity about homosexual people and holds onto the idea of a "gay community" where one voice supposedly speaks or represent the rest of homosexual people, even when it comes to political views.

r176, what exactly do you mean with stereotypical fraction?

R173, I am okay with fem guys being fem in their subculture and own world. The problem is they often try to project IT onto normal guys who want nothing to do with it, whether it’s by calling regular dudes by female pronouns or names or by nasty campy comments.

Well, the opposite can also be said. Masculine men can and sometimes they do make other men uncomfortable with how naturally their masculine aura fills a room.

Do effeminate gay guys know they are effeminate? If so, do they realize it at a young age?

Have you ever met an effeminate straight guy? I have actually met a few over the years. In fact just recently, married, kids, and straight (according to him) He's Latino, from a big family. Maybe it's the stigma.

To me it just feels like these guys haven't yet come to terms with their sexuality. But I could be wrong. Thoughts on that?

Femmy guys ruin it for the rest of us. I'm a chill masculine dude. Nobody suspects I'm gay, and that's the way I like it. These obvious in your face queens make us masc dudes look bad. We're not all screaming nelly queens. I certainly am not.

I think it is natural if certain people, expressions or behaviour make you feel uncomfortable, we all experience this with some people regardless of gender expression, but then people have the right to express themselves, especially if no one is being hurt or tranquility is not being disturbed.

I think some femmy guys REALLY love attention from everybody in anything.. i just dont like them

For all the "masc, jock, bros", I hope you do realize that straight men do not talk like this. Straight guys do not say things like, "sup, bro" (a common Grindr opener). "Jock" might have been used in John Hughes film to describe stereotype. Those who speak like this sound ridiculous.

R21 - You have to be kidding. You are are so such a "bro" that you have no taste and wear Dockers? Where are you from? Is this the benchmark for masculine gays?

R178. "Normal," Miss Thing? Take a look in the mirror if you can stand the light.

R184 "masc, jock, bros"? You are crazy

R185 Truth hurts

Well, masculinity is not a heterosexual monopoly anyway. As a matter of fact, a lot of what we call masculinity was shaped after or conceptualised by men who loved men (homosexual and bisexual men) and adopted by heterosexual men through time. For example, homosexual and bisexual men created gym culture and the admiration of the muscular body as masculine aspirations men should pursue among other things which were later embraced by heterosexual men, to name something. R184

Let alone how many times in different cultures homosexual men have been associated with millitar practices and etc.

Comment not appearing...

I've found femme guys more thoughtful and considerate and I love that.

Until men are bred to love each other instead of to kill each other, nothing is going to change.

[quote]Nobody suspects I'm gay, and that's the way I like it.

R192, please post that next time someone posts that awful Griffin woman.

I don't mind femme guys, it's just the extreme ones who have to announce to the world in every thing they do that they are SUPER GAYYYYYY. They BUST into Starbucks laughing and giggling loudly so everyone in the restaurant can hear, and then they claim "omg everyone stares at me."

I also don't like the extreme broseph straighties who have to do the same. "Yeh, bro, man, that football game was tight."

Regardless of gender expression, over-the-top behaviour and personality lack emotional balance.

There is no such thing as jenn-durr, R195. But it's one thing to enjoy high camp as a form of entertainment, but living around people who act like that all day every day…who does that? I get what you mean.

At least Richard Simmons made a career out of trying to help fat women lose weight and feel better about themselves.

I feel uncomfortable around them

Why, R197? What is it that makes you feel that way? The voices? The hand gestures?

Yess

Before you call something "over-the-top," first let's establish what the top is.

I can get along with quiet, meek fem guys, but I don’t vibe with campy or flamboyant guys. Just not my thing

I have always found shy, insecure guys attractive.

There are a lot of sweet femmes. It's the bitches I don't like.

Nobody likes being around mean, nasty people, R203. What has that got to do with whether they are male or female?

They can be funny, but if you can't come into a place without acting you just got off the pride float with lady gaga, then please calm down a bit. The fake excitedness and shrill flailing around gets tiresome after a minute.

r204, Not women, gay bitchy guys!

There are effeminate heterosexual men too although campiness is not common among them.

Give me masculinity or give me death!

Like this?

"There are a lot of sweet femmes. It's the bitches I don't like."

There are a lot of dudebro types (gay and straight) who are straight up evil.

I got my hair cut this morning in a barber shop. The haircutters were all pretty thuggish, I suspect homo-thuggish and referring to everyone as "bro" or "dude" or "boss" or "my boys." I felt ill at ease.

Please. That kind of talk and attitude turns on some DLers.

When I was child there was a very campy man who used to cut the loan in my neighbourhood whose campiness and overly seductive behaviour made me really scared. It was like he was trying to attract men by making ridiculous displays of sexualised stares and mannerisms. In some cases there is a correlation or an incidence between campiness and oversexualised behaviour.

Now that I grew up I have seen him a couple of times, he still cuts the loan and i campy as before, but I'm not scare dof him anymore.

Sorry, the "lawn" I meant. R213

What I resent is the assumption that you have to fall into either one extreme or the other in order to be your authentic self. Changing to conform to a cruel clique is the opposite of authenticity. Did we learn nothing from [italic]Mean Girls[/italic], other than Daniel Franzese and Jonathan Bennett being eminently saner than LiLo in real life?

R181 "Nobody suspects I'm gay, and that's the way I like it." So you're embarrassed about being gay so you wanna hide it? That's a lot more pathetic than the queeniest queen could ever be.

No, what's pathetic is thinking that not having those flamboyant mannerisms makes you any less gay if you're still attracted to men and men alone.

R217 ? " less gay" ? This is not a competition

Of course it isn't, R218. But saying that masculine gay men are somehow being inauthentic is not just insulting, it's homophobic and misandrist.

So, what does "gay" exactly mean?

Gay means you are only attracted to the same sex.

same with lesbian r221

"Homosexual" is actually the accurate and non ambiguous word to mean "attracted to the same sex" and it covers both homosexual men and homosexual women.

But for years, all the activists told everyone said not to say that because sex is dirty and we have to clean up our act. And now they're trying to take gay away, too.

I prefer homosexual .We are being erased to a lesser minority than we were before AND we are lumped in with trans, queer .

[quote]Wake up!

I've been warning everyone for years that they were wolves in sheep's clothing, so to speak, but I never thought they would stoop to physically emasculating little boys. Now that I can't get behind for any reason.

Well, it's simple logic that gay* came into use referring to flamboyance and campiness due to their theatrical and enthusiast nature and not really as a direct referrence to homosexuality but homosexuality happened to be a common traits among the men whose behaviour classified them as gay.

This is why gay is an ambiguous word in many instances.

Many gay men on Datalounge are misogynists. Overt, rabid misogynists. They are too stupid to realise how hypocritical this makes them.

One of the toxic elements of homophobia is the component of misogyny. Misogyny and homophobia are siblings that work in tandem.

To hate effeminate gay men is to hate women and many gay men. It's common or garden bigotry and the biggest hypocrites of all are the straight acting gay studs who hide behind the effeminate gay men letting them take society's punches.

Of all the different types of gay men, it's these sneering studs who look down their noses at women and effeminate gay men, coasting along on the Patriarchal wave in true privilege style whilst letting everyone else fight for equality.

Not being attracted to effemincy or feeling uncomfortable with certain display of effeminacy in no way mean misogyny. You are making a false connection R228

Homophobia and misogyny are completey different things. Homophobia is the hatred or aversion towards homosexual people and homosexual attraction whereas misogyny is the hatred of women.

What R229 said.

Plus I find that the worst misogynists are effeminate gay men.

While most effeminate gay men are not misogynists, the worst misogynists are femmes. Take DL's own Erna who feels compelled to sign his posts "Hates Fish"

I'm sure a shrink would have a field day figuring out men who refer to themselves and other gays with female pronouns and use female expressions like "dearie" for other men ... yet seem to loathe actual women.

So many DLers have a completely warped sense of what makes a guy "masculine"

Hint: it has nothing to do with backwards baseball caps, and muscles and saying "sup bro" or the like.

[quote]While most effeminate gay men are not misogynists, the worst misogynists are femmes.

In my experience, this has been the case. I used to have a gay male roommate who had been part of the SF drag scene (in a minor role) and had an ex-wife, but was so misogynistic he wouldn't even let me listen to Helen Reddy in the car—even my last boyfriend conceded me that—and despite putting up with all manner of drag queens and trannies, Emory from [italic]The Boys in the Band[/italic] was a bridge too far! We watched that with his boyfriend and he made me turn it off after 45 minutes. And after we watched that Buck Angel documentary on Netflix, I realized how anti-gay and cultish the whole trans thing is; I hit Peak Trans and have never looked back since.

[quote]I'm sure a shrink would have a field day figuring out men who refer to themselves and other gays with female pronouns and use female expressions like "dearie" for other men ... yet seem to loathe actual women.

The expression "hate the game, not the player" seems to be lost on them. Still, it is just not normal to be that disgusted by your own physical sex.

Why would they be misogynists of their mannerisms are pretty much modeled after women's behaviour? It doesn't make sense...

Because they can't actually BE women R233?

Just a guess, but it seems like it would have something to do with that, right?

They model themselves after women who hate other women and see them as competition.

Makes sense R235

And despite protestations to the contrary, when they call other men "she" and "her" it's meant as a putdown, as a way to say "he may pass for straight, but he's just as big a freak as I am." Because they definitely see being gay as being "less than" a man,

[quote]Because they definitely see being gay as being "less than" a man,

If a man who loves men and only loves men isn't really a man, then who is?

Competing for heterosexual men...

But I think it is only a very small fraction that competes with women.

I used to date women until I knew better. I'm attracted to effeminate men. It turns me on that I'm fucking a man, but one that's feminine.

Im similar to r239. I like guys that get pleasure from being feminine in the bedroom. Put some panties on a nice ass and you have me. I gravitate towards feminine looking and acting men. I just don't like drama queens. Also, some feminine gay men are predatory towards masculine gay guys. Some of them are like blood hounds once they have clocked you and picked up your scent. That in itself is very masculine behavior, although it's coming from a feminine guy. It can turn me off sometimes.

r228 is a sanctimonious ass who lives in a bubble.

"And despite protestations to the contrary, when they call other men "she" and "her" it's meant as a putdown, as a way to say "he may pass for straight, but he's just as big a freak as I am." Because they definitely see being gay as being "less than" a man," SO true! They deliberately say it to emasculate

I'm what you would label an effeminate guy. My flames can be seen from space, and I'm really only attracted to very masculine men, whether they be gay, bi, straight or whatever. I'm smooth and on the short side (5'6") and have got a donkey booty, so masc guys who are attracted to effeminate guys usually make a beeline for me.

Last night I fooled around with a mascbro type in the steam room. You know the type: guido looking, compression shorts, muscle tee, sculpted body. We just did mutual oral, which is pretty vanilla for the stuff that goes on in my gym lol. A little later, we were both getting dressed in the locker room at the same time. I went up to him and gave him my number, in case he ever wanted to take it to the next level (translation: fuck the living shit out of me in my apartment). He started freaking out, telling me never to approach him because "my boys" can show up any minute, and they don't know that he's into guys. He turned all shades of red, telling me this while doing his best not to raise his voice and draw attention to our conversation. However, he did take my number. He texted me later last night and apologized for getting upset. So obviously he was embarrassed to be seen with me and be accused of "guilt by association." I know I sound awful, but the fact that he's embarrassed to be seen with me, yet wants to plow my hole, is a MAJOR MAJOR turn-on.

I think there's a definite correlation between visible effeminacy and MBTI/Socionics extroversion(*). Not all gay Exxx'ers are effeminate, but the ones who ARE wired for effeminacy totally can't keep it bottled up and hidden the way their introverted cousins can.

My personal theory: 'queeniness' has 'clumsiness' as its root cause. As children, guys who are queeny now were horrible klutzes whose deliberate attempts to be less-klutzy made them appear 'effeminate' to other kids & subjected them to persecution from an early age. The introverted klutzes decide persecution for effeminacy is worse than being a klutz & just accept stubbed toes, scrapes, and bruises as the cost of being left alone. The extroverted klutzes double down, turn up the flames, and incorporate it into their identities.

(*) Note that in mbti/socionics, 'extrovert' does *not* necessarily mean 'social people-person' -- it implies ONLY that the individual's dominant function is outward/object-focused.

What is even MBTI?

Google it R245- it's a Meyers/Briggs thing. Socionics is a similar taxonomy of personality types.

And R243, I hear your story and immediately think of the Sopranos episode with the gay mobster getting head in his car by the quaryry.

YSMdh

I think gender expression is mostly acquired or learnt depending on how the exterior impacts you or subconscious absortion of mannerisms that seem more in line with your desire (in this heterosexualised world), in this case towards men and women are the main example of attraction to men.

If you are inclined to the submissive or passive role from an early age perhaps you will have women as role models...

How would Dlers describe PK Creedon? He's extremely extroverted, appears to click with any and everyone wherever he goes despite the extraversion, and I'd say he definitely falls well onto the fem side of things, but his femininity is different somehow. And of course his bf is a literal "masc dude bro." What does DL think?

Guys like Adam Rippon intrigue me

I don't think PK is effeminate; not at least in a relevant way. He does have this cliche phrases that women use (Oh, my go~d!) but generally speaking he's just kind of hyperactive with a child-like personality.

R250, that's a great example of a pretty boy. Trust me, they have access to all the dick they want.

I sometimes get the impression that only effeminate gay men and women can express attraction and desire for masculine men publicly without social comdemnation... If a masculine gay man says that's what turn him off about men he will most likely be judged...

Sorry, I meant "that's what turns him on" R253

Either way, it's still a double standard at minimum.

I tolerate effeminate gays.

Although amusing, I wish they could just man up a bit.

Otherwise, put on a dress.

I really don't like effeminate Asian men and I cringe when I have to deal with them. It's not right and I don't why I feel uncomfortable around them, but it just is what it is. But, of course, I pretend otherwise.

Effeminacy shouldn't be something to make anybody uncomfortable because there is nothing wrong with it. Now when people overdo a certain behaviour that's a different story. I myself feel uncomfirtable aorundmen who overdo masculinity, but we should agree that effeminacy just like masculinity comes in different degrees and most effeminate gay men are neither bitchy or attention-seeking.

You are absolutely entitled to feel attracted to a specific behaviour, wherever it may fall on the spectrum of gender expression. But that's different from the disgust shown by a few on here.

Effeminophobia IS rooted on misogyny.

Considering femininity to be something negative stems from the notion that women are inferior.

Like the women who feel superior for not succumbing to the pressures of wearing makeup and high heels.

My neighbors have a little girl who's obsessed with superheroes and likes "boy" toys. The dad loves this and encourages this a lot. He thinks this makes her a badass. I think it's great they allow her to play with whichever toy she prefers. But would they be as cool about it if it was a little boy asking for a barbie doll?

Is what bothers you the fact that they may comply with what for soooo long was the only way a gay man was represented in media, which is rightly detrimental, not because of the femininity itself, but because it was reductive? Do we feel they're giving straight people ammo of some sort by inhabiting that stereotype even though that's who they truly are and there's nothing wrong with that?

Is it just that loud, extremely extroverted people annoy you? I get that. But that's not exclusive to feminine gay men.

I think you make some excellent points R259

I also think DLers play up their effeminacy in a very aggressive manner on here that stems from the extreme self-hatred many eldergays feel.

When they call other men "she" and "her" and "Miss Bradley Cooper" and "the Senatrice" and the like, they're doing so with malicious intent--it's not a light hearted joke, it's a way of saying "you may think you're better than me because you're not a giant ponce, but I'm going to call you by the name homophobes call me as a way of putting you--and all gay men--down."

My friends and I call is "Boys In the Band Syndrome" -- when eldergays and even younger femme guys feel the need to refer to all gay men as "girls" and "she" and "her" and are clearly doing it because, as R29 sagely notes, they feel that women are inferior to men and gay men and like women, inferior to straight men.

As for femmes in general, I agree with many of you that the ones who try and put on nasty and campy and over the top personalities--drag queens without drag--are annoying AF but they act like that as a way to ensure that they drive people away because they believe they are not worthy of friendship or even love.

There's a whole lot of misogyny too behind that whole shtick, which you can see reflected in the high level of misogyny on DL, a well known uber-femme DLer who uses female pronouns and signs his posts "(Hates Fish)" being an easy but telling example

^^they feel that women are inferior to men and gay men ARE like women, inferior to straight men.

Are people still going to come with the same bullshit?

I am not attracted to effeminacy. I don't hate effeminate gay men and I don't hate women either. I don't think effeminacy is inferior to masculinity or any of that tired crap. I am simply not attracted to it.

Can you tell the difference between lack of attraction to* and hatred of*?

This is why I made this distinction:

"You are absolutely entitled to feel attracted to a specific behaviour, wherever it may fall on the spectrum of gender expression. But that's different from the disgust shown by a few on here."

So clearly I didn't mean people like you who are merely expressing attraction and not disgust.

^People conflate the two, especially in the LGBTwhatever world. If you're not attracted to someone, then you must hate them or something about them. if you liked them, you'd be attracted to them. That's not my line of thinking, but I can see how someone might have that mindset.

Either way, this thread was meant to cheer on effeminate gays because they get a lot of shit from straights and, clearly, also from other gays. (Some people read it as "you HAVE to be attracted to them or you're wrong")

I think masculine gay guys resent effeminate guys more than straight guys do, because the masculine gay guys see in them what they probably hate most about themselves (internal masculine vs. feminine conflict, while trying to maintain a super-masc facade).

Dunno about that R266

I see the same sort of discomfort/recentment that assimilated well off blacks, Jews, Italians, Latinos, etc., experience when confronted with people of the same ethnicity who more closely conform to negative ethnic stereotypes.

It's a "YOU are why people think I am a gangbanger/garmento/mobster/cleaning lady, etc." sort of thing.

I think that when some peoole insist that masculine gay men resent effeminate gay men because they hate themselves it pretty much comes from a place where you yourself see yourself incapable of acquiring masculinity so you project your inability on others since it takes effort for you to perform masculinity and you can't conceive the idea that masculinity is natural to many gay men.

I don't think masculine gay men hate effeminate gay men at all. Out thee in the real world masculine and effeminate gay men are not attacking each other. If anything, their lack of interests in common is what keeps them apart but not something as trivial as mannerisms and slang.

Hate is a strong word. I don't feel like it's been stated here that masculine gay men hate feminine gay men.

Some posters have just been unnecessarily cruel in the way the express their rejection/discomfort/preference.

Doesn't have to be hate anyway.

My mom's friend doesn't hate gay people, she just doesn't think "they should be allowed" to get married.

My aunt doesn't hate gay people, he just thinks it's nasty when two men kiss.

nothing wrong with switch hitters

The problem is that there will always be people claiming hatred of effeminate gay men because what actually triggers that idea is that most gay men go for masculine men and seeing yourself less successful in that respect is frustrating.

If you read articles about the sensasionalised clash between masc and fems it all has to do with the inability to attract masculine gay men.

In real life masculine and effeminate gay men share spaces and can be friends, but it is when it comes to love and sex that things don't go as some would like it to.

Most “fem” guys are with “fem” guys. In most relationships I see one who is more masculine than the other in some way(s). At any rate, there’s no such thing as masc and fem the way they’re being discussed here, like binary caricatures (especially as it concerns so-called “fems”).

Bingo R272

So many posters sound like fraus asking "which one do you think is the man and which is the woman?"

And "eldersisters" with their years of internalized homophobia to the point where they're unable to use male pronouns on themselves or other gay men, just perpetuate it

Why do you think some effeminate gay men use female pronouns and treat each other as if they were women?

Obviously there is more than one reason. In my very personal opinion I would say that for some (not for all) it is a sign of fetishization a woman's role in sex.

Ricardo Mestre has a song for you.

Gay men not dating women is an expression of misogyny.