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Theatre Gossip #283: Who Lives In A Pineapple Over the Great White Way? edition

Since they actually went through with a [italic]SpongeBob[/italic] stage musical, even though it looks like the sort of thing that belongs at Universal Studios in Orlando, how long before we actually see the [italic]Simpsons[/italic]/[italic]Family Guy[/italic] rivalry extend to actual musical theater and not just pastiche?

And how do we stop Broadway from becoming just another subsidiary of the junk food industry? I'm just wondering how long before we see a Ronald McDonald musical.

by Anonymousreply 47714 hours ago

More like the Who Comes Up With the Worst Titles Ever? edition.

by Anonymousreply 1Last Thursday at 11:52 AM

You won the contest for the worst comeback ever, R1.

by Anonymousreply 2Last Thursday at 11:54 AM

This OP needs to retire. His titles are AWFUL.

by Anonymousreply 3Last Thursday at 12:02 PM

Ok I can sum up the last 3 threads

NY times article that’s possibly not coming out

Spongebob

Follies

Robbie Fairchild and Ashley Day breaking up

Follies

Angela Lansbury saying women share blame

Bob Fosse

Over Here and Over There

Follies

Audra eating Chipotle

Follies

by Anonymousreply 4Last Thursday at 12:09 PM

[quote] You won the contest for the worst comeback ever, [R1].

And yet there you are, snatching my title away already.

by Anonymousreply 5Last Thursday at 12:10 PM

R4 - you left out Follies.

by Anonymousreply 6Last Thursday at 12:56 PM

The Sun Comes Up...

by Anonymousreply 7Last Thursday at 1:00 PM

The Sun'll Come Out Tomorrow...

by Anonymousreply 8Last Thursday at 1:03 PM

I can't let that last thread disappear without commenting on my disappointment with the Donna Murphy version of L/J.

First of all, it was just so......careful. It felt like every breath was over-rehearsed. When you watch that clip of Alexis Smith you know you're seeing LIVE theater. She was so in the moment and all the more thrilling to see someone we 'd always thought was a Hollywood has-been holding a Broadway audience in the palm of her hand. True glamour and excitement!

Secondly, it sounded like Donna kept fucking up the lyrics.

by Anonymousreply 9Last Thursday at 1:05 PM

Does Armie Hammer have any previous stage experience or are the Straight White Men producers just casting a movie star for name value? (Similarly, has anyone seen Uma Thurman in The Parisian Woman?)

by Anonymousreply 10Last Thursday at 1:06 PM

Apropos of nothing, a comment on Follies.

One of my favourite versions of Losing My Mind is Cleo Laine's, in part because of her approach to the ending. She places the climax on "You said you loved me," not on "Or were you just being kind?" If you think about it, it makes perfect sense.

Not the definitive version by any means (she shuns the "ka-ha-hind," which to me is rich with interpretive possibility) but a good one to come back to again and again.

r9 I'm not a big fan of Donna's Losing My Mind either (on Wall-to-Wall Sondheim).

by Anonymousreply 11Last Thursday at 1:09 PM

r9, no reason to be overly wordy. The following was sufficient.

[quote]I can't let that last thread disappear without commenting on my disappointment with the Donna Murphy

by Anonymousreply 12Last Thursday at 1:09 PM

The "Cleo Laine Sings Sondheim" album is the best damn album ever! Every track on that thing is divine!

by Anonymousreply 13Last Thursday at 1:11 PM

r12 As opposed to the other Donna Murphys, jk, very funny, I agree.

by Anonymousreply 14Last Thursday at 1:11 PM

In case anyone missed it, here was the suggested track listing for a Judy Sings Sondheim! album on the last thread:

1. Broadway Baby

2. Send In the Clowns

3. Not a Day Goes By

4. Everything’s Coming Up Roses

5. Losing My Mind

6. Children Will Listen

7. No One Is Alone

8. The Ladies Who Lunch

9. I’m Still Here

10. Rose’s Turn

11. Bonus Track: Anyone Can Whistle

by Anonymousreply 15Last Thursday at 1:13 PM

The Mean Girls musical looks terrible

by Anonymousreply 16Last Thursday at 1:14 PM

For Volume 2, I'd love to see "Not While I'm Around," "A Parade in Town" and for the potential who would have imagined that working, "The Miller's Son." Who else has suggestions?

by Anonymousreply 17Last Thursday at 1:15 PM

[quote]In case anyone missed it, here was the suggested track listing for a Judy Sings Sondheim! album on the last thread:

Replace 6 with "Everybody Says Don't" Judy was great with those fast, soaring songs.

by Anonymousreply 18Last Thursday at 1:16 PM

[quote] Replace 6 with "Everybody Says Don't" Judy was great with those fast, soaring songs.

She was also good with pills. Look where that got her.

by Anonymousreply 19Last Thursday at 1:17 PM

r13 If you ever get a chance, check out Cleo's Send in the Clowns in the Live at Carnegie Hall album. Different, just as lovely.

r15 Not a Day Goes By and Losing My Mind in particular make me regret what could have been.

r17 OMG, A Parade in Town. That's genius.

Just wanted to add to my comments in the last thread on the NT Follies. The ending of Imelda's Losing My Mind was a stroke of genius. She flipped a switch and made the last note sound completely hollow, as if she had now, finally, gone over the edge. If any of you have the DVD, do check it out.

by Anonymousreply 20Last Thursday at 1:21 PM

Judy's cover of Sweet Danger is wonderful!

by Anonymousreply 21Last Thursday at 1:44 PM

OH COME ON GUYS, YOU FORGOT THE PERFECT BOOKEND TO A WOMAN WHO SANG OF RAINBOWS......

by Anonymousreply 22Last Thursday at 1:47 PM

"Similarly, has anyone seen Uma Thurman in The Parisian Woman?"

I did, and nothing in this play — not one line or ginned-up plot turn — feels real.

by Anonymousreply 23Last Thursday at 1:49 PM

[quote] The Mean Girls musical looks terrible

I've wondered about why so many of these screen-to-stage transfers are so literal and musically indifferent. It's like they think fans of these films will watch anything.

by Anonymousreply 24Last Thursday at 2:39 PM

The sun'll come out tomorrow -

I think about you

by Anonymousreply 25Last Thursday at 2:58 PM

[quote]Maybe if Judy had been cast in "Anyone Can Whistle" as Cora Hoover Hooper, it would have played longer than a week.

Yes. Two weeks.

by Anonymousreply 26Last Thursday at 2:59 PM

[quote]Secondly, it sounded like Donna kept fucking up the lyrics.

If you want to hear fucked up lyrics, watch the clip of Caroline O'Connor singing "Lucy and Jessie" in the Chicago production a few years back. I don't know if it was an early preview or not, but girlfriend has no clue what she's singing until she gets to the "poor sad souls" bridge.

by Anonymousreply 27Last Thursday at 3:01 PM

[quote] If you want to hear fucked up lyrics, watch the clip of Caroline O'Connor singing "Lucy and Jessie" in the Chicago production a few years back. I don't know if it was an early preview or not, but girlfriend has no clue what she's singing until she gets to the "poor sad souls" bridge.

But it's Caroline O'Connor! The only actor to ever put across a Pasek/Paul song without making you roll your eyes.

by Anonymousreply 28Last Thursday at 3:03 PM

[quote]The sun'll come out tomorrow -I think about you—Annie Durant Plummer

and with the sun in the morning and the moon in the evening, I'm all right!

by Anonymousreply 29Last Thursday at 3:09 PM

R21, do you mean Sweet Danger from Kean?

Or is this another song?

by Anonymousreply 30Last Thursday at 3:18 PM

Compare the melody of "Tomorrow! Tomorrow! I love ya, tomorrow" with that of "Is that just disgusting, you to concede it."

Sondheim admitted years later he did it on purpose as a joke. At the time, people were still saying Sondheim couldn't write a hummable melody. So he wrote the most popular show tune of the past 25 years into Sweeney's score to see if anybody would notice. Almost nobody did.

by Anonymousreply 31Last Thursday at 3:24 PM

Miss Caroline O'Connor.........and her two (count 'em) two boys!

by Anonymousreply 32Last Thursday at 3:34 PM

[quote]Annie Durant Plummer

The sun'll come ou tomorrow...IT IS TOMORROW!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 33Last Thursday at 3:36 PM

The Sweet Danger of Fran Gumm

by Anonymousreply 34Last Thursday at 3:39 PM

[quote] You won the contest for the worst comeback ever, [[R1]].

[quote]And yet there you are, snatching my title away already.

Nope, R5, you're still the reigning champion. I humbly concede.

by Anonymousreply 35Last Thursday at 3:41 PM

[quote]The sun'll come ou tomorrow...IT IS TOMORROW!!!!!!

Like hell it is!

Light the candles, get the ice out, roll the rug up, IT'S TODAY!!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 36Last Thursday at 3:41 PM

The Producers and Hairspray had strong creative teams and old fashioned star power fueling the translation, most of these other adaptations lack both, hence, zzzzzzzzz and blorp.

by Anonymousreply 37Last Thursday at 4:05 PM

Did Jerry Herman ever say why he sold Mame rights to Lucille Ball? Did he actually lose them to her in a poker game?

by Anonymousreply 38Last Thursday at 4:06 PM

Lucy offered to put up a substantial amount of Warner's production expenses to get cast.

by Anonymousreply 39Last Thursday at 4:10 PM

Transferring from movie to Broadway musical has been successful in some instances.

Little Shop of Horrors was a great example of this. The original 1960s movie is a scream!!

Can the Sound of Music be included as there was a documentary about the von Trapp family.

A Light Night Music turned out well.

Sunset Boulevard turned out better than I expected.

by Anonymousreply 40Last Thursday at 4:10 PM

The Sound of Music was nominally based on Maria von Trapp's book. But almost all the substantial changes made to the plot (vs. the real story) were first made in The Trapp Family, a highly successful German from the mid-1950s.

by Anonymousreply 41Last Thursday at 4:15 PM

Forgot to add that the German film was a regular commercial film, not a documentary.

by Anonymousreply 42Last Thursday at 4:16 PM

[quote]Forgot to add that the German film was a regular commercial film, not a documentary.

Did it have a black Mother Superior?

by Anonymousreply 43Last Thursday at 4:19 PM

Little Shop was an off-Broadway musical r40.

by Anonymousreply 44Last Thursday at 4:26 PM

[quote]Little Shop was an off-Broadway musical

Yes, at first it was. But they've since done a Broadway production.

by Anonymousreply 45Last Thursday at 4:28 PM

Little Shop has played Broadway

by Anonymousreply 46Last Thursday at 4:51 PM

And even that was a nondescript song, r28.

by Anonymousreply 47Last Thursday at 5:22 PM

Judy would also be wonderful on So Many People and In Buddy's Eyes.

by Anonymousreply 48Last Thursday at 5:24 PM

The canard that Lucy put her own money into Mame to be cast needs to be put to rest. The simple truth is that Warners was reluctant to finance an old fashioned musical at that point in time as most had been flops. The only reason they did is because the biggest, most popular, most beloved female star in the world agreed to do it. They thought that was their insurance against a box office dud. Unfiortunately, no one looked at this decision creatively realizing that Lucy was not right for the role. Everyone lost in the end. Although one must admit that the title number filmed on location is simply magnificent.

by Anonymousreply 49Last Thursday at 5:44 PM

Yes, but Little Shop on Broadway has never been a B.O. success.

by Anonymousreply 50Last Thursday at 5:45 PM

I think r40 was talking about artistically successful

by Anonymousreply 51Last Thursday at 5:49 PM

I don't think it was considered artistically successful on Broadway either.

by Anonymousreply 52Last Thursday at 5:51 PM

Ooh, don't forget "Finishing the Hat." "Children and Art" would be an interesting one for Judy, but it's probably best with Liza.

by Anonymousreply 53Last Thursday at 5:55 PM

r53 Liza would sing all those "Mama"-s like she was singing Rose's Turn. It would be so bizarre I would definitely listen to it.

by Anonymousreply 54Last Thursday at 6:06 PM

There were a lot more people on stage in that Follies number with Caroline O'Connor. They were upstage and behind a scrim. To be honest, I never got the emotional release of the number as strongly as I did in that production. It really felt like a cold, icy woman finally letting go. It was quite thrilling.

by Anonymousreply 55Last Thursday at 6:21 PM

I would kill to be able to hear Judy and Liza duet on “There’s Always a Woman.”

by Anonymousreply 56Last Thursday at 6:22 PM

[quote]really felt like a cold, icy woman finally letting go. It was quite thrilling.

One of the first things she let go of was the lyrics.

by Anonymousreply 57Last Thursday at 6:23 PM

Did she keep screaming out "Line!" in the middle of the song?

by Anonymousreply 58Last Thursday at 6:30 PM

No, but she did scream "Get a feathered hat for the baby!" Wait ... that was Lanie.

by Anonymousreply 59Last Thursday at 6:32 PM

I saw Caroline O'Connor in GYPSY. There were muscle men in the Garden of Eden sequence. Well, chorus boys doing their best "muscle man".

by Anonymousreply 60Last Thursday at 6:36 PM

R37 here, I was talking about the recent/current screen to stage adaptations, the last five years have been full of shite.

by Anonymousreply 61Last Thursday at 6:45 PM

Consider how few movie musicals we got out of Hollywood at all during the last two decades of the 20th century.

by Anonymousreply 62Last Thursday at 7:15 PM

You're terrible, Mean Girls

by Anonymousreply 63Last Thursday at 7:23 PM

It's been confirmed. The Times is coming after the choreographers early next week. Say goodbye to "Pretty Woman" and the horrid dancing in "Frozen".

by Anonymousreply 64Last Thursday at 7:55 PM

OMG, that Caroline O'Connor L/J is so ghastly -- she has to sing the number in a SLIP ??? Plus it's damnably self-regarding as is her performing style always -- has there ever been someone less suited to that role? She'd be a good Solange, though! Mais oui!

by Anonymousreply 65Last Thursday at 7:58 PM

[quote]here, I was talking about the recent/current screen to stage adaptations, the last five years have been full of shite.

So ... Big Fish, Catch Me If You Can, The Sweet Smell of Success, Waitress?

by Anonymousreply 66Last Thursday at 8:06 PM

[quote] The Sun'll Come Out Tomorrow...

Every new tomorrow makes me afraid of not that something's going to come out, but when and about whom.

by Anonymousreply 67Last Thursday at 9:09 PM

Sorry, r49, but the rumor Lucy put up a substantial amount of the production costs because she wanted to do the part as a major film comeback was around from the very beginning because it was true. WB, like all the other major studios, wouldn't even have gotten involved without such a commitment. IBDM denies it, Wikipedia doesn't mention it, but I was around back then and knew a lot of people who all knew it was true.

It was just all so misguided that I don't think George Cukor's withdrawing after production delays because he had other commitments made any difference at all. It was just all so wrong from both artistic and commercial aspects from the git-go.

by Anonymousreply 68Last Thursday at 9:29 PM

ABC put up the other half of the money. They also made [italic]Song of Norway[/italic], which goes to show what kind of artistic judgement they had then.

by Anonymousreply 69Last Thursday at 9:33 PM

Anybody want to go near the old rumors that Lisa Kirk recorded alternate vocal tracks for Ball but that Ball forbid being used? Highly popular LA gossip columnist Radie Harris first published the story back before the film came out, but both Ball and WB flatly denied it and Ball even filed suit. Harris immediately retracted.

Yet the story persists. I don't think it's true because people with access have searched both the Warner document files and sound archives for decades looking for any sign of the alleged tracks and no one has ever found a thing. Something, something should have been found if the story were true.

by Anonymousreply 70Last Thursday at 10:09 PM

What I heard was that Warner’s - at the request of Jerry Herman - wanted to hire Lisa Kirk after hearing Lucy’s first vocal tracks, which had to be pieced together from multiple takes.

Lucy felt her own voice was too recognizable and that it would be too obvious. She nixed it.

by Anonymousreply 71Last Thursday at 10:18 PM

[quote]Warners was reluctant to finance an old fashioned musical at that point in time as most had been flops. The only reason they did is because the biggest, most popular, most beloved female star in the world agreed to do it.

I wasn't aware that Barbra, either Hepburn, or Doris Day had expressed any interest in the film. Are you trying to tell me Warners was willing to make that kind of investment in a non-musical has-been without some sort of sweetening?

by Anonymousreply 72Last Thursday at 11:45 PM

[quote]a highly successful German from the mid-1950s.

You rang?

by Anonymousreply 73Last Friday at 12:21 AM

[quote]but I was around back then and knew a lot of people who all knew it was true.

Talk about an unimpeachable source!

by Anonymousreply 74Last Friday at 12:25 AM

R66, exactly, those are all horrible, either outright dud or medium “meh.”

by Anonymousreply 75Last Friday at 1:24 AM

[quote]Follies didn't use the original book, but is it as close to it as we will get? Where were Vincent and Vanessa?

Vincent and Vanessa have been gone from Follies since at least 2001. In "Sondheim and Company," Bennett says that Sondheim hates Vincent and Vanessa, but that he (Bennett) feels they are necessary to separate "all the purple numbers." I guess once the show moved on from the original production, Goldman and Sondheim felt free to cut V&V.

by Anonymousreply 76Last Friday at 1:59 AM

[quote]It's been confirmed.

Confirmed by whom?

by Anonymousreply 77Last Friday at 2:02 AM

Somebody needs to create a show around Vincent and Vanessa. Something like Rosencrantz and Guilderstern are Dead.

by Anonymousreply 78Last Friday at 3:05 AM

With the Mame movie, maybe they should have had Julie Andrews do it. She may not have been as big a box office draw, her career was waning in the mid 1970s, but at least it would have been a better movie.

by Anonymousreply 79Last Friday at 3:08 AM

Has Julie ever done an American accent?

by Anonymousreply 80Last Friday at 3:34 AM

It's about time everyone realized that MAME is not a great show and hasn't worked in any form or revival since the original Broadway production. Times have changed so much since 1966, and nothing about MAME is shocking or amusing any more and that includes the adventures and predicaments of Mame, Vera, Gooch and even Gloria Upson, not to mention the vile Mother Burnside.

It all comes off now as either very quaint, or even worse, repellent and ponderous. It's about as much fun as an old sketch from The Carol Burnett Show stretched out to 2 and 1/2 hours.

I'd wager that anyone disagreeing with me hasn't seen a production in the last 50 years.

by Anonymousreply 81Last Friday at 3:40 AM

Who's seen ONCE ON THIS ISLAND? Is this revival really all that?

Uma Thurman is okay in PARISIAN WOMAN, mainly because she's given fabulous clothes to wear. Otherwise she doesn't much register, but that's okay, cause the ones who do register do so badly. The men in this show are giving some of the worst performances in many a year on the Great White Way. And P. Soo does little with a not-great part. The one exception: Blair Brown, who shows them all how it's done. She's exceptional.

I feel lucky to have seen FOLLIES at the National in previews. It was in intense experience, pretty damn amazing till we got to the Loveland sequence.

SPONGEBOB is excrement.

by Anonymousreply 82Last Friday at 4:23 AM

Did they at least ask Doris Day? She was one of WB's biggest stars for years, and that could have been her cinematic swan song. She could have brought some genuine charm to songs like "Open a New Window" and "My Best Girl."

by Anonymousreply 83Last Friday at 4:32 AM

Julie did a movie for Blake Edwards that year with Omar Sharif: [italic]The Tamarind Seed[/italic]. It made as much of an impact as one.

by Anonymousreply 84Last Friday at 4:32 AM

R81: Considering the only revival it ever got was by all accounts a glorified bus and truck tour which nevertheless has been rumored to exist as a complete record of Angie's performance, and considering the movie's monumental shortcomings have tainted the show by association, that's not really a fair assessment. The show is aware of the vileness of the system that keeps them alive, and it has Beauregard's death in a skiing accident as a symbolic death of that retrograde mindset, and Mame goes on without a man in her life.

by Anonymousreply 85Last Friday at 4:37 AM

R85, there was a big(ish) production at Paper Mill with Christine Ebersole. She was pretty lacking in charisma, so it was hard to tell if it was her or the show itself that made the evening kind of lackluster. I do think MAME has a great score, and I'd love to see if with a dynamic performer in a first-rate production. Maybe Scott Rudin is eyeing it for his DOLLY follow-up.

by Anonymousreply 86Last Friday at 4:46 AM

We need a gay Mame!

Thomas Roberts *IS* Mame

Don Lemon *IS* Vera

Anderson Cooper *IS* Gooch

Andy Cohen *IS* ITO

Robbie Fairchild *IS* Beauregard Jackson Burnside

Ashley Day *IS* Sally Cato

by Anonymousreply 87Last Friday at 4:55 AM

Love Doris Day, but did she EVER play sophisticated? Can't envision her with a long cigarette holder downing a martini. Nor doing the physical comedy of the fox hunt.

by Anonymousreply 88Last Friday at 5:22 AM

That was part of Jerry Herman's argument against casting Lucy: she wasn't sophisticated enough. She was actually good in [italic]Yours, Mine and Ours[/italic] which was a hit despite taking liberties with the truth, and that was probably what helped her get cast.

by Anonymousreply 89Last Friday at 5:30 AM

I miss Vincent and Vanessa

by Anonymousreply 90Last Friday at 5:43 AM

R77-My lawyers

by Anonymousreply 91Last Friday at 5:58 AM

Goddamn but you showtune queens are tiresome.

by Anonymousreply 92Last Friday at 6:07 AM

[quote]Love Doris Day, but did she EVER play sophisticated? Can't envision her with a long cigarette holder downing a martini. Nor doing the physical comedy of the fox hunt.

But here is where a new production could break ground if an excellent director thought it out.

Mame is not sophisticated. She worked in the legitimate theater, probably in the chorus. Mame's entire existence is put-on. She's hanging around beatnik intellectuals because it makes her look sophisticated. Mame is a forerunner of the Kardashians. If the show is approached from that angle it might be more interesting. Mame is Mama Rose, a conniver, a woman who stops at nothing to get what she wants. She loses her fortune and then gets by until she meets another rich man.

But I guess we'll have to leave it to the British to mine a show that we've not seen before. Imelda Stauton *is* Mame in National Theatre's "MAME!"

by Anonymousreply 93Last Friday at 6:08 AM

[quote]Confirmed by whom?

Lea Salonga again?

by Anonymousreply 94Last Friday at 6:11 AM

We all went to Starbucks after spilling the beans...tee hee.

by Anonymousreply 95Last Friday at 6:24 AM

I have it on good authority that DL fave Paula Abdul will read the NYT article to the press on the steps of her Bel Air mansion on Monday morning at 7AM

by Anonymousreply 96Last Friday at 6:27 AM

I'm a bit unclear. Vincent and Vanessa = Bolero d'Amour? Are Theodore/Emily now a conflation of Vincent/Vanessa and previous Theodore/Emily? Thanks.

by Anonymousreply 97Last Friday at 7:08 AM

[quote]Vincent and Vanessa have been gone from Follies since at least 2001.

Grover Dale played Vincent in the 2002 Reprise production in L.A. (With Bob Gunton, Patty Duke, Harry Groener and Vikki Carr.)

by Anonymousreply 98Last Friday at 7:18 AM

Ann-Margret should have been "Mame". Pauline Kael said "Mame must be played by a young smashing actress that gays find a turn-on. Constantly changing her wigs and her gowns and her decor, basking in jewels and bitchy repartee." That was right after AM's broken face and this could have been her comeback vehicle. Well, at least it would have been a better movie with her in it. Put Madeline Kahn in as Vera, not Gooch and you're set.

by Anonymousreply 99Last Friday at 7:24 AM

R99 It begs the question: why is MAME not assigned to a drag queen? (Or a guy in drag, doesn't have to be a drag performer per se)

by Anonymousreply 100Last Friday at 7:38 AM

[quote]It begs the question: why is MAME not assigned to a drag queen?

Charles Busch did the non-musical version.

by Anonymousreply 101Last Friday at 7:47 AM

I think Bernadette would have made a good Mame and even though she’d NEVER take second lead under Bernadette, Patti would have been a fun Vera.

by Anonymousreply 102Last Friday at 7:50 AM

There was a pretty famous drag version of the musical done in San Francisco in the late '60s.

by Anonymousreply 103Last Friday at 7:54 AM

R30, yes from Kean. Where else!?

by Anonymousreply 104Last Friday at 7:56 AM

I read that the National Follies had Bolero in for a few performances but cut it for time. Who danced it?

by Anonymousreply 105Last Friday at 8:54 AM

They should have done an all black MAME with Diana Ross.

It's strange that they didn't do it with Liza. She was hot in the immediate wake of Cabaret.

by Anonymousreply 106Last Friday at 8:55 AM

Shoshana Bean is not a star. I repeat Shoshana Bean is NOT a star.

by Anonymousreply 107Last Friday at 9:01 AM

If MAME isn't naturally sophisticated, where did her $$ from? She isn't a widow. She had big bucks until she lost it all in the crash. Probably did acting as a kind of slumming pastime. She had no skills to make money, hence her disastrous attempts at retail and working as a telephone operator. But even if that's not the case, she had to have a faux-sophistication. Doris couldn't have pulled that off either.

by Anonymousreply 108Last Friday at 9:59 AM

I saw "Mame" when it was was produced at the Kennedy Center in 2006, with Christine Baranski as Mame and Harriet Harris as Vera. There were hopes it would move to Broadway. I knew immediately that wasn't going to happen. It wasn't terrible, but there was no magic on that stage. It was pretty much as R81 described it. Quaint. And extremely dated. Baranski's performance was adequate but had no real spark; Harris was miscast.

by Anonymousreply 109Last Friday at 10:05 AM

[quote]Put Madeline Kahn in as Vera, not Gooch and you're set.

You also risk the possibility of her not being available for [italic]Blazing Saddles[/italic]. That wouldn't have been nearly as good without her.

by Anonymousreply 110Last Friday at 10:07 AM

In the awful Roundabout production, Marge Champion and Donald Saddler played Theodore and Emily Whitman and did both "Rain on the Roof" and (what it was called in that production) "Danse d'Amour".

by Anonymousreply 111Last Friday at 10:13 AM

[quote][R99] It begs the question: why is MAME not assigned to a drag queen? (Or a guy in drag, doesn't have to be a drag performer per se)

I think different people license the theatrical rights to [italic]Auntie Mame[/italic] and [italic]Mame[/italic] and whoever handles the latter doesn't allow sex-reversals of the roles.

by Anonymousreply 112Last Friday at 10:14 AM

I agree completely R109. After seeing that production I concluded that MAME was pretty much unrevivable . Too bad, it's got a great score and one of the best overtures on any OCR, thanks to Philip J. Lang.

by Anonymousreply 113Last Friday at 10:18 AM

The g-word that rhymed with blender is barely speakable, never mind singable, and trying to rhyme it with "offend her" was not one of Jerry Herman's finest moments. And how many women have voices like Bea Arthur's?

by Anonymousreply 114Last Friday at 10:21 AM

Baranski is the definition of a second banana.

by Anonymousreply 115Last Friday at 10:22 AM

I thought I said that about Catherine Zeta Jones? Someone find my quotes.

by Anonymousreply 116Last Friday at 10:27 AM

At least with Baranaski, you know that Mame probably lost her fortune trying to repair that awful nose job she got in her youth.

by Anonymousreply 117Last Friday at 10:27 AM

R117 = Cybill Shepherd, still bitter after 20 years

by Anonymousreply 118Last Friday at 10:28 AM

What IS Roundabout's reputation regarding musicals and do you think The Unsinkable Molly Brown coming next year will be good? The scores a dud. And the freshly dug up old trunk songs are worse.

by Anonymousreply 119Last Friday at 11:04 AM

Christine Baranski is more a Vera than a Mame. Same with Christine Ebersole in Papermill or wherever she did it. Both women are metallic and have zero warmth. Mame needs to be played by an actress who can project warmth.

by Anonymousreply 120Last Friday at 11:16 AM

I project warmth! I should be MAME!

by Anonymousreply 121Last Friday at 11:19 AM

Several years ago, I stage managed a summer stock production of Unsinkable Molly Brown. It's just not revivable. There's nothing there. The book is terrible, the music is less than average. It's a bore unless you have some firecracker of an actress. And since these days, all musical actresses are from the Vanilla Music Theater Academy, you aren't going to get a Molly with any spark. So the best they should hope for is a concert version because it's not a good show.

by Anonymousreply 122Last Friday at 11:19 AM

But what about the Molly "revisal" from Denver last year?

Anyone there to see it?

by Anonymousreply 123Last Friday at 11:24 AM

I have to agree with r122. The Unsinkable Molly Brown is a stinker, and I don't understand why they're trying to dig it up and make it work. It can't, not with that score.It has three or four 'B' level songs (Are You Sure?, I Ain't Down Yet, I'll Never Say No, Chick-a-Pen), and the rest are garbage.

by Anonymousreply 124Last Friday at 11:29 AM

The best scene in Molly Brown is at the end of Act 1. Molly Brown is trying to get into high society and she's being snubbed by everyone. But she takes it as a challenge and yells something like "You'll see Mrs. (rich lady who is snubbing her) I'll get all of you to like me." Then they end with a reprise of I Ain't Down Yet. Bleehhhhhhhhhh!

by Anonymousreply 125Last Friday at 11:30 AM

The production in St. Louis got strong reviews. My husband saw it and said its very different than the original. He thought Malone was amazing.

by Anonymousreply 126Last Friday at 11:36 AM

And this...

by Anonymousreply 127Last Friday at 11:37 AM

[quote]OMG, that Caroline O'Connor L/J is so ghastly -- she has to sing the number in a SLIP ??? Plus it's damnably self-regarding as is her performing style always -- has there ever been someone less suited to that role?

Wouldn't you say there's supposed to be large element of self regard in the character Phyllis as written?

[quote]What I heard was that Warner’s - at the request of Jerry Herman - wanted to hire Lisa Kirk after hearing Lucy’s first vocal tracks, which had to be pieced together from multiple takes. Lucy felt her own voice was too recognizable and that it would be too obvious. She nixed it.

I don't know how close Kirk came to post-dubbing the songs, or whether Lucy herself had enough power to nix it, but I do remember Lucy saying in some TV interview (maybe with Merv Griffin?) something along the lines of how there had been discussion of bringing "someone" else in to sing for her. I don't remember for sure if Kirk ever addressed the rumor.

[quote]Several years ago, I stage managed a summer stock production of Unsinkable Molly Brown. It's just not revivable. There's nothing there. The book is terrible, the music is less than average.

I think there are a few really good songs in it. I've never seen a stage production. Is the original book that much different from the script for the movie, because I don't think that script is terrible.

[quote]I have to agree with [R122]. The Unsinkable Molly Brown is a stinker, and I don't understand why they're trying to dig it up and make it work. It can't, not with that score.It has three or four 'B' level songs (Are You Sure?, I Ain't Down Yet, I'll Never Say No, Chick-a-Pen), and the rest are garbage.

"Belly Up to the Bar Boys" and "Colorado, My Home" are also good songs.

by Anonymousreply 128Last Friday at 11:40 AM

R122, I've got a tape of the Molly Brown revisal. It's still not good, because the underlying material is not good. They did that version at St. Louis Muny this summer, and the promo video is probably still on YouTube - check it out. It's ridiculously bad.

by Anonymousreply 129Last Friday at 11:42 AM

Favorite moment in the revised Molly Brown - the opening, Molly's on the lifeboat from the Titanic. Then she gets out of the boat and walks (on water!) forward to tell us her story.

by Anonymousreply 130Last Friday at 11:46 AM

and how about a reviewer we KNOW-not the Belleville News-Democrat.

Dick Scanlan is an uninspired writer with a penchant for rewriting other peoples work.

Not one original thought in his body.

by Anonymousreply 131Last Friday at 11:47 AM

but Beth is PERFECTION!

by Anonymousreply 132Last Friday at 11:48 AM

[quote]I do remember Lucy saying in some TV interview (maybe with Merv Griffin?) something along the lines of how there had been discussion of bringing "someone" else in to sing for her.

That episode is kind of sad now, because the whole thing was to celebrate the opening of "Mame," which was going to be a couple of days later - the horrible reviews hadn't come out yet, and Lucy (and Lucie, who's also a guest) still thinks it's going to be a great big hit. She actually mentions Lisa Kirk's name, though - when she talks about how it would be impossible to dub her because of her well known voice - and she mentions that Kirk is so talented and has her own wonderful career (ie, so she doesn't need to be a voice ghost for Lucy).

by Anonymousreply 133Last Friday at 11:48 AM

If Molly Brown has only a handful of good songs, could it work as a movie (remake)? Gentlemen Prefer Blondes only has a handful of songs in its movie adaptation. And it seems that screenwriters more often improve on stage books than stage revisal writers do.

by Anonymousreply 134Last Friday at 11:51 AM

She told Phil Donahue they couldn't find a close enough match. That didn't seem to matter on [italic]Here's Lucy[/italic] where Carole Cook sounded nothing like her.

by Anonymousreply 135Last Friday at 11:51 AM

Can someone tell me what is the driving force between revivals of terrible shows? Is it a producer wanting a tax write-off? How are there teams of people wanting to put up such dreck?

by Anonymousreply 136Last Friday at 11:53 AM

Can someone tell me what is the driving force between new shows that are just as bad or worse, R136?

by Anonymousreply 137Last Friday at 11:58 AM

Thanks, R133. I guess I didn't remember it clearly. Or maybe it was another TV interview where Lucy mentioned the idea of dubbing her singing but didn't mention Kirk by name. I do remember how, on Merv Griffin, Lucie Arnaz and Gary Morton and everyone else seemed to think MAME was going to be a huge hit. Isn't it true that it WAS a hit at Radio City, and only started to flop in general release?

[quote]Can someone tell me what is the driving force between revivals of terrible shows? Is it a producer wanting a tax write-off? How are there teams of people wanting to put up such dreck?

I think title recognition is the answer. Whether you love or hate MOLLY BROWN, the title is pretty well known among older theatergoers.

by Anonymousreply 138Last Friday at 11:58 AM

Broadway Chatter is that DL fave Kristin Chenoweth is in talks for Molly Brown

by Anonymousreply 139Last Friday at 12:00 PM

[quote]I think title recognition is the answer. Whether you love or hate MOLLY BROWN, the title is pretty well known among older theatergoers.

But how many theatergoers under 40 are seeing them? I'd like to go to things like this since I wasn't alive when they were new, but I live on the other side of the country.

by Anonymousreply 140Last Friday at 12:02 PM

It sounds like the Muny gutted most of the score and replaced the gutted songs with crap just as bad.

I had read at one point that when Lucille Ball was looking to return to Broadway, she was offered "Wildcat" and "Molly Brown." So Tammy Grimes owes her career to Lucy Ball.

by Anonymousreply 141Last Friday at 12:15 PM

Wildcat wasn't Ball's return, R141. It was her debut.

I saw the original Molly Brown. It played very well, because Grimes was such a firecracker, and then you had the added fun of the big cast, tons of scenery, and great choreography that musicals so often had in those days.

It's not a great show, no. But when done full out with a leading lady with spark, it's very entertaining.

As a footnote, I revisited the work at Westbury Music Fair much later, with Grimes in her old role. She was just walking through it, and the whole thing was very soggy. I didn't think she was all that interesting in Private Lives or 42nd Street, either. Capable, but no longer looking to be special.

by Anonymousreply 142Last Friday at 12:21 PM

Account of Dustin Hoffman, Broadway Groper.

by Anonymousreply 143Last Friday at 12:25 PM

Chick in the article above said she didn't notice he was cupping her breast. What, did she shoot them up with novocaine? How do you not feel a hand pressed that tightly on your tit? I call bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 144Last Friday at 12:28 PM

Warners first thought "Mame" would be a hit so they scheduled a Christmas release in time for Oscars. When they saw it, they knew how insane the notion was and pushed the release back to Spring. They still spent money on the promotion as the Cinerama Dome in LA was decked out as a giant Easter Bonnet.

by Anonymousreply 145Last Friday at 12:33 PM

Over on All That Chat, someone just posted a video of John Cullum talking about On the Twentieth Century. Unfortunately, his wife is there, too, constantly interrupting with insipid doodads just when he's saying something interesting.

Apparently, it's his wife, and she's singularly uncharming.

by Anonymousreply 146Last Friday at 2:08 PM

Yes r146, she is.

by Anonymousreply 147Last Friday at 2:11 PM

Blowing Cameron can only take you so far I guess.

by Anonymousreply 148Last Friday at 2:17 PM

Falk didn’t blow Mackintosh. Hytner blew Falk.

by Anonymousreply 149Last Friday at 2:47 PM

[quote]Hytner blew Falk.

Well, if Lincoln Center "Carousel" is any indication he also blew Michael Hayden, because Hayden sure didn't have the chops for Billy Bigelow.

by Anonymousreply 150Last Friday at 3:06 PM

I think a MAME revival is possible, but it needs a slight revamp to the book. It was never as good as the play. It's impossible to think of a huge star who could even come close to filling the role's requirements these days. Toni Collette and Jane Krakowski come to mind, but I don't think they're equally marquee names.

by Anonymousreply 151Last Friday at 3:16 PM

[quote]It's impossible to think of a huge star who could even come close to filling the role's requirements these days.

Ahem!

by Anonymousreply 152Last Friday at 3:18 PM

R152- CZJ, dear, you are far too young for the part. Mame needs to be over 40.

by Anonymousreply 153Last Friday at 5:47 PM

Saw "School Girls" tonight at the Lortel. Great play with a great young cast. And it's short, too -- 75 minutes, no intermission, and you're outta there. I highly recommend this one.

Andy Mientus was sitting a few rows behind us. He's very cute in person.

by Anonymousreply 154Last Friday at 6:06 PM

The only hope for Molly Brown on Broadway is if Reba finally agrees to do it. End of story.

by Anonymousreply 155Last Friday at 6:25 PM

The revisal craze combines the feeling of:

a) minimizing risk - revisals are done on shows that probably worked, or at least partially worked, before. This is one of the reasons people are so hot for good catalog shows too. If you loved Coca-Cola before, wait until you taste New Coke!

THE UNSINKABLE MOLLY BROWN recouped on Broadway and had a healthy tour, stock and amateur life before becoming one of those "shows no one does anymore" like BELLS ARE RINGING or WONDERFUL TOWN. The film was a massive hit, the 12th highest grossing film of the year even as musicals were falling out of favor. It's the last real MGM musical.in a lot of ways. The property has a not insubstantial amount of success in its past; revising a MOLLY BROWN or PAJAMA GAME is NOT the same as revising WHAT MAKES SAMMY RUN? or MACK AND MABEL or something that's always been a commercial flop.

b) looking down your nose at the past - it's so much easier to congratulate yourself on how enlightened you are, and say "that hoary old book, it'll never do now, oh, it's so un-PC and simpleminded" than to write your own show and score from scratch about the same historical character, or using the same storyline. Rewriting a dead writer's work meets no resistance, and if you flop with your new version your out clause is to say "well the problems with the original book went deeper than we thought."

c) putting your own stamp on the work of the revered deceased - the rewriter-as-rescuer, as the person who knows better than those people back in the day ever did. Let's throw out all that old stuff and put in some of MY stuff, not only is it as good as what those dead guys wrote, it's even BETTER, but I'm still going to help myself to whatever lines and songs of theirs I like so I can co-opt the show's original success for myself and my career.

The Debbie Reynolds-Harve Presnell 1990s tour (there's a good bootleg of it) did a good job of cutting the score and streamlining the book. It also put in a flashback to accommodate an older actress playing Molly. Interestingly, some of the songs that weren't sung in the film made their way back into the Reynolds/Presnell stage version, and they put in "He's My Friend" from the movie. Meredith Willson lived till 1984, and there was nothing stopping him from revising his score for 24 years if he'd wanted to.

The original TUMB gets off to a rousing start, and the Act I score is not bad. It's in Act II when the plot slows down and there are some real dog songs that the show starts sinking under its own weight and you start looking at your watch. Even in the 1960s critics were pointing out the flaws in the story, and the score isn't written in a style so that it will match a book that has had a modern sensibility grafted onto it in a rewrite, no matter how many interesting actual historical facts get namechecked. It's always been an awards bait show for the actress playing Molly, another role for your actress who played Annie Oakley, Nellie Forbush, Sally Adams, or any number of roles like that. The person who mentioned Reba is right; MOLLY BROWN is nothing if not a celebrity appearance show. So it burns hot with charisma and choreography (when you have Peter Gennaro) and the rags-to-riches spectacle of it all. You keep it loud and big and as sincere as you can, and by all means, keep it moving.

This MOLLY BROWN revisal, which I haven't seen and know nothing about, has been in development since 2009. Review of 1990 Debbie road show version at link.

by Anonymousreply 156Last Friday at 6:35 PM

Oh, r156, all that effort to try to convince people that Molly Brown is a worthy property for revival, when it has always been a third rate show. It’s heyday of “tour, community theatre, college, and stock” lasted only through the 1960s. It was solidly forgotten until 1989 when Dame Debbie, having had stage success in 1977 with Annie Get Your Gun, decided to take the turd that was close to her heart out for another spin.

[quote]Interestingly, some of the songs that weren't sung in the film made their way back into the Reynolds/Presnell stage version, and they put in "He's My Friend" from the movie.

Those songs didn’t “make their way back” into the show, they never left. They were doing the STAGE version with all songs Davis with one unfortunate exception. “He’s My Friebd” was interpolated from the film to replace “Are You Sure?,” just as if has in the movie, which is a pity since “Are You Sure?” Is a much better song.

The only thing you be said for the rewrite is that it recognizes that and uses both songs.

It’s not a good show. And it’s not a title that many people know anymore. The film is not a beloved classic, it’s not all that good, either. No one, but no one, is waiting with baited breath to see The Unsinkable Molly Brown again.

by Anonymousreply 157Last Friday at 7:27 PM

He's My Friend is one of the all time greatest dance numbers ever put on film.

It truly blows me away every time I see it.

Nobody but nobody today has the chops and charisma performers did then.

Who the fuck trains today's dancers?

They demand nothing from them except busywork.

And who had the brilliant(really) idea of having Grover wear red socks?

by Anonymousreply 158Last Friday at 7:34 PM

I don't think R156 was necessarily going to bat for a Molly Brown revisal, more explaining how it would check off the familiar revisal boxes.

If we didn't already know what her singing voice sounds like, I'd suggest someone out of the box like Cameron Diaz for Mame. Remember, Angela was "that woman who plays everybody's mother" by the mid-'60s.

by Anonymousreply 159Last Friday at 7:43 PM

[quote]I think a MAME revival is possible, but it needs a slight revamp to the book. It was never as good as the play

It’s better than the play, actually. Combining Gooch and Norah Muldoon was a master stroke, among other things. Getting rid of Brian O’Bannion was also a wise decision.

by Anonymousreply 160Last Friday at 8:07 PM

[quote]Falk didn’t blow Mackintosh. Hytner blew Falk.

Isn’t it possible that Falk blew Mackintosh while Hytner was blowing him?

by Anonymousreply 161Last Friday at 8:11 PM

Willy's agent is a friend of mine. I can check with her.

by Anonymousreply 162Last Friday at 8:53 PM

I'm guessing he had a particularly nice dick because the face... shades of Joel Grey.

by Anonymousreply 163Last Friday at 9:20 PM

There is just NO FUCKING WAY Beth Malone will sell that shit show, none, it will close before it opens. She is a talented lady, but a star she ain’t.

by Anonymousreply 164Last Friday at 9:40 PM

The problem with “Mame” is.....Mame.. Who can really play her? Roz and Angela are tough acts to follow.

by Anonymousreply 165Last Friday at 9:43 PM

[quote]There is just NO FUCKING WAY Beth Malone will sell that shit show, none, it will close before it opens. She is a talented lady, but a star she ain’t.

Malone isn't a huge star but I'm betting she would be after critics rave about her must see performance. Now if they can find backers to take a gamble.

by Anonymousreply 166Last Friday at 11:14 PM

Critics raved about Malone's must-see performance in Fun Home, and she still isn't a star.

by Anonymousreply 167Last Saturday at 1:19 AM

What it looks like when a lesbian kisses a fat old man with thinning hair.

by Anonymousreply 168Last Saturday at 1:23 AM

Yikes! R168! Now THAT is an image that will sell a show...right into oblivion.

by Anonymousreply 169Last Saturday at 2:21 AM

Harris seems like a natural for Vera, r109 - in what way(s) did she seem miscast (I didn't see it and am genuinely asking)

by Anonymousreply 170Last Saturday at 2:44 AM

With Vera, I think that Bea Arthur's performance is so etched in our minds, that we think Vera should always be played with that dry, sarcastic, withering style that Bea perfected.

Does anyone know if Jerry Herman wrote Vera's music with Bea Arthur in mind?

by Anonymousreply 171Last Saturday at 3:43 AM

I don't think Arthur supplanted Coral Browne.

by Anonymousreply 172Last Saturday at 3:46 AM

Bea Arthur is a drag queen.

Coral Browne is an elegant, sophisticated acerbic lesbian.

I prefer the second.

by Anonymousreply 173Last Saturday at 3:50 AM

[quote] I think a MAME revival is possible, but it needs a slight revamp to the book. It was never as good as the play. It's impossible to think of a huge star who could even come close to filling the role's requirements these days. Toni Collette and Jane Krakowski come to mind, but I don't think they're equally marquee names.

The biggest structural differences between [italic]Mame[/italic] and [italic]Auntie Mame[/italic] are the combining of Norah Muldoon and Agnes Gooch and changing the ending; [italic]Auntie Mame[/italic] has the house next to the Upsons' turning into a refuge for Jewish war orphans, tying into their none-too-subtle antisemitism (that was still common in the 1950s and even my grandparents faced housing discrimination because of it), but in the musical it becomes the unwed mothers' home, tying into Gooch's being knocked up and single. Can't it be both? Why not maximize the Upsons' outrage? People seem to remember the flamboyant gestures and declarations of hedonism but forget things like that: she challenges the bigotry of the bourgeoisie by going into the belly of the beast that is American racism and anti-semitism. Today she would be smoking weed with the poor and unfortunate and playing matchmaker to gay men held hostage in ex-gay camps!

by Anonymousreply 174Last Saturday at 3:53 AM

The biggest problem with Molly Brown, both the original and the revival, is there's no real conflict.

Molly and her man quickly marry and get rich before Act I is over. Then there's no where to go. Their break up seems totally unrealistic and unreasonable and it's hard to be sympathetic to Molly's yearnings for high society when those in it are so reprehensible. And then Molly's reunion with her husband at the end comes out of nowhere and no real motivation.

It's odd that the one truly big event in her life, being a survivor of the Titanic, is so minimized. But then, how do you stage that in a musical??

by Anonymousreply 175Last Saturday at 4:53 AM

I agree r175. There really isn't any interesting story in Molly Brown. I find it interesting that Annie Get Your Gun is still being done and they are essentially the same story. But with AGYG, she has the framework of show business and being the sharpshooter. So when Annie sings about high society and wanting a big, fashionable wedding, we enjoy it with her. With Molly, it just seems like she's grasping for a high society life.

by Anonymousreply 176Last Saturday at 5:06 AM

R149 is wrong. Willy was Cameron’s boy toy. Lea did NOT like him as Chris and went to Hynter who had Willy replaced.

by Anonymousreply 177Last Saturday at 5:12 AM

And... I Want an Old-Fashioned Wedding wasn't even in the original r176.

by Anonymousreply 178Last Saturday at 5:24 AM

Well, out of the [italic]Annie[/italic] movie songs I think "Sign" would work better in the context of the actual play than "We Got Annie" which was actually a trunk song to begin with. But it ain't gonna happen.

by Anonymousreply 179Last Saturday at 5:25 AM

That's easy for you to say, R179.

by Anonymousreply 180Last Saturday at 5:28 AM

I can see Lea doing that actually - with her perfect pitch, she probably couldn’t stand Willy’s flat notes, which seen many and regular if his YouTube page is anything to go by.

Imagine what she’d do if she had to do a show with the ever sharp Ramin...

by Anonymousreply 181Last Saturday at 5:41 AM

We've known why Willy was cast as Chris for years. It's because he was fucking Cameron, and vice versa.

by Anonymousreply 182Last Saturday at 5:41 AM

Not to mention one other little thing R176: Annie Get Your Gun has a GREAT score and Molly DOESNT.

Even though the new "writer" Scanlan thinks it's AMAZING.

Dick Scanlan is the ONLY reason this is getting traction. And R156's brilliant post can all apply to him as well- he is stuck in the past with great disdain and jealousy towards other more talented and modern creators. The same disdain he feels for Sherie Rene Scott, his current repeat "collaborator." Yet she's JUST as viciously jealous. But the only returning collaborator able to tolerate his poor taste and extreme mental issues being mental herself.

And also, what R156 said relates to the thieving nature of Scanlan himself- " putting your own stamp on the work of the revered deceased - the rewriter-as-rescuer, as the person who knows better than those people back in the day ever did. Let's throw out all that old stuff and put in some of MY stuff, not only is it as good as what those dead guys wrote, it's even BETTER, but I'm still going to help myself to whatever lines and songs of theirs I like so I can co-opt the show's original success for myself and my career. "--

-well that's Scanlan to a T !

Reba was as bored during the reading as we were. She OBVIOUSLY was there wanting to recreate her Annie success, but Molly SUCKS and she knew it! And Dick Scanlan's habitual manipulations and clever words failed to enlist her for he couldnt back it up with as clever a script.

And now that his buddy is no longer reviewing for the NYTimes, lets see what his chances of a good review are.

by Anonymousreply 183Last Saturday at 5:48 AM

Agree that MOLLY is unrevisable, but the score is far more attractive and tuneful than such dogs as NEXT TO NORMAL, CHRISTMAS STORY, COME FROM AWAY, and dozens of other recent scores.

That being said, Annaleigh Ashford could make a fun Molly.

by Anonymousreply 184Last Saturday at 6:02 AM

agreed about the "dogs" R184

by Anonymousreply 185Last Saturday at 6:07 AM

Brandon Uranoitz Max Von Essen and DL fave Robbie Fairchild posted pics of the 3 of them hanging. I know Max is partnered but surely the 3 of them had some hanky panky that afternoon?

by Anonymousreply 186Last Saturday at 6:23 AM

They did a show together for almost a year, dumbass.

by Anonymousreply 187Last Saturday at 7:01 AM

Is Kristin Chenoweth considering starring as Molly? Or did I just read this here?

And isn't this revisal just something Roundabout is workshopping? I don't think there are commercial producers attached unless you consider the director and her husband.

by Anonymousreply 188Last Saturday at 7:14 AM

If it's going to be Roundabout, you can count on the whole crapfest stinking to high heaven.

by Anonymousreply 189Last Saturday at 7:28 AM

R170, Harriet Harris had nothing of the grand dame about her. It was hard to imagine her as a star of the stage whom someone might confuse with Tallulah Bankhead. Her Vera seemed like a ditzy frau who drinks too much. And no, I wasn't expecting her to be Bea Arthur. But I certainly expected her to be better than she was.

by Anonymousreply 190Last Saturday at 7:54 AM

Or, in "Auntie Mame," confuse with Helen Hayes.

by Anonymousreply 191Last Saturday at 8:42 AM

[quote]Today she would be smoking weed with the poor and unfortunate and playing matchmaker to gay men held hostage in ex-gay camps!

Been there, done that.

by Anonymousreply 192Last Saturday at 9:05 AM

[quote] And it's short, too -- 75 minutes, no intermission, and you're outta there. I highly recommend this one.

Frank DeCaro used to tout this as a virtue when he had a radio show and I never understood it. What's the point of paying substantial money and going out for the evening if you're not even going to get at least an hour and a half of entertainment? I do not think 2 hours is unreasonable, and for me, a full two act musical that ends just before 11:00 is heaven.

Of course, that means that the creative team has to come up with good material that keeps the audience engaged for the entire time, but Kaufman and Hart, Rodgers and Hammerstein, Arthur Miller, Edward Albee, and countless others had no trouble doing it.

Or is the smart-phone generation incapable of being off their phones for more than 75 minutes?

by Anonymousreply 193Last Saturday at 9:06 AM

You could always expect ME to be Bea Arthur r190!

by Anonymousreply 194Last Saturday at 11:04 AM

agree (r193)

when i heard "meteor shower" was 80 mins. i said wtf! movies are longer than that

by Anonymousreply 195Last Saturday at 11:16 AM

Mame should be updated. At the end, she can open a refugee camp in Darien for unwed gay Muslims who would have been executed in their homeland.

by Anonymousreply 196Last Saturday at 11:51 AM

[quote] "We Got Annie" which was actually a trunk song to begin with.

“We Got Annie” wasn’t a trunk song. It was written for the show, and was in the Goodspeed production. It was sung, more or less, in the place where “We’d Like to Thank You, Herbert Hoover” is now. It’s actually a great song, but you can’t tell from the movie, where it’s completely rewritten - even to the point where the title phrase is in a different musical place than it is in the original song.

by Anonymousreply 197Last Saturday at 12:00 PM

[quote] know Max is partnered but surely the 3 of them had some hanky panky that afternoon?

Yes, because it’s impossible for three men to get together without wanting to have sex with each other, right? God, you’re an asshole. Go watch Poppins.

by Anonymousreply 198Last Saturday at 12:02 PM

Small themes require small canvases.

by Anonymousreply 199Last Saturday at 12:31 PM

Should I see M Butterfly?!

by Anonymousreply 200Last Saturday at 12:36 PM

It IS impossible for 3 men to get together and not have sex.

Just ask Next Door Studios

by Anonymousreply 201Last Saturday at 1:10 PM

no

by Anonymousreply 202Last Saturday at 1:17 PM

Spongebob also doesn't seem to be selling well, oddly, despite the rave review from NYT. Miss Saigon, on its last legs, outsold it last week. What's to happen of Spongie? Is Viacom backing this show?

by Anonymousreply 203Last Saturday at 1:33 PM

You can't judge SpongeBob's earnings from last week. Half of the week went to press seats and comps for opening.

by Anonymousreply 204Last Saturday at 1:39 PM

[R204] you're right, forgot it opened last week. seems like it's already been running a while! but still, it's on TDF ALL the time.

by Anonymousreply 205Last Saturday at 1:41 PM

Who the fuck says HANKY PANKY???

by Anonymousreply 206Last Saturday at 1:52 PM

Jeff Barry?

by Anonymousreply 207Last Saturday at 2:40 PM

So based on the reviews, I guess we can expect SpongeBob to get a Best Musical Tony nom?

by Anonymousreply 208Last Saturday at 3:13 PM

Ben Brantley must have Nickelodeon stock. Talk about tailoring a review to the benefit of the doubt. Spongebob, the musical has all the charms and taste of Olive Garden, the dinner. Tourists will take comfort its familiarity and dumb-downed kitsch. Everyone is working exceedingly hard and well. The newbie playing Spongebob is game, energetic and cute. Gavin Lee is a delight in his brilliant costume and leading the one musical moment in the show that has any charm and excitement. The last ten minutes are sweetly sentimental, so you feel like a heel admitting you were overwhelmed with blazing, loud and amped-up sensory tricks, but still bored, passing the acts looking at every aspect of the set, admiring the clever costumes and choreography but never really engaged and certainly not moved. What music? But it hardly matters. The millennials love knowing the jokes, kids are distracted enough to sit still with their parents and the streamers and beach balls at the end convince everyone else that a good time was had by....someone. ADHD, the musical. Good news for all concerned! Long my it gurgle.

by Anonymousreply 209Last Saturday at 3:16 PM

Saw an interview with Billy Crudup tonight and was kinda surprised -- I'd never seen him interviewed before and just expected he would be one of these brooding, very serious type of actors with little to no personality. Instead he came off as very pleasant, jovial and like someone who's very happy to just be a working actor. Who here has met or worked with him? What were your impressions of him?

I hasten to add he's also still very hot with a little bit of a weathered look that really works for him.

by Anonymousreply 210Last Saturday at 3:18 PM

Billy Crudup is a swine. He left his pregnant girlfriend (Mary Louise Parker) to be with Claire Danes.

by Anonymousreply 211Last Saturday at 3:23 PM

Is Spongebob even remotely coherent? The whole "every song is by a different composer" thing made the cast recording sound all over the place. Does it somehow work within the context of the show?

by Anonymousreply 212Last Saturday at 3:41 PM

Oh Geez, I didn't know Tina Landau directed SpongeBob. She's the one that bored everyone to tears with the Bells Are Ringing revival. She took a fun, silly musical and turned it into a boring, dull slog.

by Anonymousreply 213Last Saturday at 3:54 PM

Was scanning through the stations and found ABC is broadcasting Mary Poppins. It's just as oversweet, saccherine and WONDERFUL as I remembered it.

by Anonymousreply 214Last Saturday at 4:10 PM

[quote]Billy Crudup is a swine. He left his pregnant girlfriend (Mary Louise Parker) to be with Claire Danes.

Not to excuse what Crudup did, but MLP is fucking insane. Can you imagine what she’d be like pregnant? With a hormonal imbalance? On some level, I don’t doubt he was electing for self preservation. Not an excuse, but a reason...

by Anonymousreply 215Last Saturday at 4:16 PM

[quote] Not to excuse what Crudup did, but MLP is fucking insane. Can you imagine what she’d be like pregnant? With a hormonal imbalance? On some level, I don’t doubt he was electing for self preservation. Not an excuse, but a reason...

If he couldn't figure that out two seconds after he met her, then he was thinking with his dick and not his brain. Dude should have worn a condom. Or maybe he liked her because she got into freaky shit?

by Anonymousreply 216Last Saturday at 4:18 PM

Do we even know if the kid is Crudup's? Is it not just as likely that he left a cheating girlfriend and like a stand-up guy did not announce to the world that the child came from a one-night stand?

I mean if you met Parker....

by Anonymousreply 217Last Saturday at 5:15 PM

Anyone know anything about this show "Encores" on ABC tomorrow (after "Frozen?") Kristen Bell hosts -- it's about a group of people (students?) who did "Into the Woods" 20 years ago and are now reuniting or something. Sounds very weird.

by Anonymousreply 218Last Saturday at 5:59 PM

In the "Encore" commercial, the guys are comparing notes about who kissed the most girls. They are probably the only boys in history who did theater in high school who ever had that conversation.

Although these particular guys are very schlubby and unattractive for guys in their late 30s, so they probably wandered into the rehearsal room by mistake or got blackmailed into joining drama club.

by Anonymousreply 219Last Saturday at 6:07 PM

Well, MP is over, but the second act could have improved the film with some judicial cutting. But I can understand why Disney was reluctant to do that because some of the scenes that make the film run too long are wonderful in their own right.

by Anonymousreply 220Last Saturday at 6:25 PM

How many times has MACK & MABEL been tinkered with? Its score is far superior too Molly Brown, and the dark original ending (which shocked audiences then) might work today.

by Anonymousreply 221Last Saturday at 6:46 PM

I am now watching the film version of The Rainmaker, the source material for 110 Ten in the Shade. Lancaster and Hepburn are both wonderful, despite each being10 to 20 years too old for their roles.

by Anonymousreply 222Last Saturday at 6:48 PM

Mack and Mabel has a glorious score but the book is so dishonest. Mabel and Sennett had a brief fling, not a long affair, and Mabel died years later from tuberculous and pneumonia; she didn't OD.

by Anonymousreply 223Last Saturday at 6:55 PM

^ tuberculosis, not tuberculous. Sorry.

by Anonymousreply 224Last Saturday at 6:59 PM

Speaking of Jill Haworth, I'm watching her right now on an old "Outer Limits" episode on MeTV. She was a lovely young woman.

by Anonymousreply 225Last Saturday at 8:14 PM

[quote]and Mabel died years later from tuberculous and pneumonia; she didn't OD.

Mack & Mabel isn’t dishonest as much as it is heavily fictionalized - which the authors were always upfront about.. It doesn’t say anything about Mabel overdosing. It shows her suffering the effects of her drug addiction, and then goes on to relate than Mack and Mabel made one more film, and that Mabel died in1930. It doesn’t mention a cause, but it’s true that her drug addiction left her in a physical state that made her particularly susceptible to the tb that killed her. (The new, revised version doesn’t mention her death at all).

The musical’s biggest lie is its portrayal of William Desmond Taylor as a hardcore drug abuser who led Mabel down that path. In reality, Taylor was the one who tried to get Mabel off drugs. He was also gay, hinted at with the character of “Serge,” his assistant.

by Anonymousreply 226Last Saturday at 9:10 PM

Mary Louise Parker isn’t just crazy, she’s a royal bitch. I’m not surprised Crudup left her.

by Anonymousreply 227Last Saturday at 9:13 PM

Jerry Herman's farts have more memorable melodies than 99% of modern Broadway.

by Anonymousreply 228Last Saturday at 9:37 PM

[quote]R34 The Sweet Danger of Fran Gumm

Is that a specialty song written for the show? Wow....it's a LOSER. Even she can't make it interesting.

by Anonymousreply 229Last Saturday at 9:42 PM

"Sweet Danger" is by Robert Wright and Chet Forrest from the flop musical "Kean" - it's actually a good song, but it needs to be SUNG - by a legit theatre voice - not by the haggard shell of a voice Judy had left by the time she did it. The "pop" arrangement didn't do the song any favors, either.

by Anonymousreply 230Last Saturday at 9:47 PM

[quote]R58 Did she keep screaming out "Line!" in the middle of the song?

HEY, bitch...!!!....that was MY signature attention getter!!!

by Anonymousreply 231Last Saturday at 9:47 PM

Thank you, r213. Landau even had the divine Faith Prince as a memorable Ella and she still screwed the whole thing up.

by Anonymousreply 232Last Saturday at 9:55 PM

[quote]R93 But here is where a new production could break ground if an excellent director thought it out.

Oh god...please NO. The only number I really like is Gooch's "What Do I Do Now."

I even find the original movie really loooooooong. (Though the clothes are fabulous.)

by Anonymousreply 233Last Saturday at 9:59 PM

[quote]R99 Ann-Margret should have been "Mame".

Except it's ostensibly a comedy. Has A-M been in any good ones??

And I don't inherently see Mame as being young. In the book her hair's going gray, I think, when Patrick's in college, so you'd think she'd have to be pushing 40 when he arrives (?) Maybe (?)

by Anonymousreply 234Last Saturday at 10:03 PM

Re: Movie MAME

This person's video reviews are cracking me up!

by Anonymousreply 235Last Saturday at 10:35 PM

Just reposting here something I posted in another thread where it was semi-appropriately on topic that Daryl Hickman was Robert Morse's first replacement in the original Broadway production of How to Succeed.

by Anonymousreply 236Last Sunday at 1:13 AM

Okay, while that reviewer is snarking on Mame delightfully, she's also mispronouncing a lot of words. "Look ASK-ence"? "Speak-uh-zees"?

by Anonymousreply 237Last Sunday at 1:55 AM

It's weird though that the whole scandal seems to have killed Crudup's career but not MLP or Danes

by Anonymousreply 238Last Sunday at 2:20 AM

Mame’s title number was filmed “on location,” R49? It was filmed in California, not Georgia.

by Anonymousreply 239Last Sunday at 2:43 AM

[quote]It's weird though that the whole scandal seems to have killed Crudup's career but not MLP or Danes

It's always the penised person's fault.

by Anonymousreply 240Last Sunday at 3:22 AM

Killed Crudup's career? He's acted consistently over the years with great casts, directors and projects with literally no break. He's not a "star" and some of his choices are offbeat/indie stuff but he's a very successful character actor. He won a Tony in Stoppard at Lincoln Center, was fantastic in Harry Clarke off Bway earlier this year, co-starred with Annette Bening in 20th Century Women and with Natalie Portman in Jackie 2 years ago, Naomi Watts in Gypsy on Netflix this year (a flop, I know) and co stars with Julia Roberts in the upcoming movie adaptation of Where'd You Go, Bernadette (which is a great read) and sounds like a hit movie to me. He's also in an upcoming superhero movie with Gal Gadot.

He got a better career going for the long term than either ML Parker or Claire Danes.

by Anonymousreply 241Last Sunday at 3:38 AM

I agree with R241. I don’t see how anyone could say Crudup doesn’t have a successful career.

by Anonymousreply 242Last Sunday at 3:57 AM

MLP was awful in SNOW GEESE and HEDDA GABLER

by Anonymousreply 243Last Sunday at 4:15 AM

I have two questions on Crudup: (a) can he sing (someone said he was in Gypsy) and (b) has he ever played gay?

by Anonymousreply 244Last Sunday at 4:17 AM

Here asswipe R239, Mame’s title number was filmed on location meaning a plantation was not recreated on a soundstage. They actually went outside - on location. You’re obviously not in the biz since you know nothing of this. And I never said it was Georgia. And it’s the glorious highpoint of the picture,

by Anonymousreply 245Last Sunday at 4:18 AM

MLP in the Roundabouts Hedda Gabler was the worst piece of shit I've ever seen presented on a stage. I saw an early preview and Parker looked manic at the curtain call. I'm sure she went ape shit on somebody after the curtain came down.

by Anonymousreply 246Last Sunday at 4:25 AM

[quote]MLP in the Roundabouts Hedda Gabler was the worst piece of shit I've ever seen presented on a stage.

We just assume that if it's Roundabout that it's going to be the worst piece of shit. If I were a major star, I would avoid that place. They take talented stars and make them look like community theater actors. I don't think I've ever seen one enjoyable production come from Roundabout.

by Anonymousreply 247Last Sunday at 4:27 AM

R247, not even the "Cabaret" revival?

by Anonymousreply 248Last Sunday at 4:29 AM

But MLP was truly brilliant in How I Learned to Drive and Proof. She was also surprisingly funny in an Alan Ayckborn comedy off-Broadway in the late 1990s called Communicating Doors about time traveling. But all of her theater work since then has certainly been questionable.

Billy Crudup has never been concerned with being a star. He's only wanted to avoid type-casting and play varied roles in interesting projects. He's had many chances at big commercial success but not allowed them to guide his career.

I knew them both a little bit. He was always easy going and steady. She was quite the opposite, but far more loon than bitch.

by Anonymousreply 249Last Sunday at 4:37 AM

Gypsy was a Netflix drama series with Naomi Watts and Billy Crudup, not the musical. It doesn't mean he can't sing but he certainly wasn't playing Tulsa.

by Anonymousreply 250Last Sunday at 4:37 AM

I was at Shetler Studios yesterday and crazy Lori Petty came bursting out of one of the audition rooms apologizing to everyone for screaming. First off, no one heard her scream and, secondly, no one gave a shit. She seemed desperate to be recognized and it was sad.

by Anonymousreply 251Last Sunday at 4:38 AM

[quote][R247], not even the "Cabaret" revival?

The Cabaret was not a Roundabout original. It was based on the production done in London.

And I'm one of those that didn't like the reworked Cabaret. Berlin was not dark when Isherwood first went there. It was fun and gay. The Roundabout revival makes it sleazy and dark from the beginning. The Emcee should be mysterious not sleazy.

by Anonymousreply 252Last Sunday at 4:41 AM

AGREED! Smart man R252!

by Anonymousreply 253Last Sunday at 4:47 AM

R252. you need to learn some history. Berlin in the 20s was indeed sleazy and dark. The Donmar production of cabaret was based on the artwork of several German artists who recorded the decadent side of Weimar cabaret, I believe Otto Dix in particular. Hyper inflation destroyed social conventions and drove people to desperate measures in order to survive.

by Anonymousreply 254Last Sunday at 5:11 AM

I liked the SutFo Anything Goes - wasn't that the Roundabout?

by Anonymousreply 255Last Sunday at 5:18 AM

[quote]Berlin in the 20s was indeed sleazy and dark.

People tend to create environments different than their actual circumstances. For example, in the 1970s, New York City was a shithole. So fabulous clubs like Studio 54 were created so that people had a place to escape the ugliness. And there were several other clubs where people flocked to.

I'm sure that Isherwood went to gay clubs that were in basements and a bit seedy because that was the gay scene. But a club like the Kit Kat Club would have been a place to escape what was going on outside. I believe that if you go with the idea that Berlin was sleazy and dark, then the interior of the Kit Kat should be fabulous. Not a bunch of untalented whores with holes in their stockings.

by Anonymousreply 256Last Sunday at 5:20 AM

Lori Petty is a good actress she claims to be str8, yet ALL points point elsewhere

by Anonymousreply 257Last Sunday at 5:22 AM

The Roundabout version of "Cabaret" has only gotten worse in subsequent incarnations. I saw the national tour at the Kennedy Center recently, and it was so "dark" and "edgy," they should have handed out razor blades to the audience at the beginning. It came off like a parody of the original Roundabout production. I never appreciated Liza more than when this production's Sally had a hilarious nervous breakdown while singing "Cabaret." I think I exaggerate my memories sometimes, but I swear she ended the number by shrieking and running offstage, like Jeanette Nolan as Lady Macbeth in Orson Welles' movie.

by Anonymousreply 258Last Sunday at 5:33 AM

Mame had money before the crash; don't forget her brother was wealthy too, and she must have inherited his estate.

by Anonymousreply 259Last Sunday at 5:48 AM

R234, I think A-M has always shown a wonderful lightness in scenes, even going back to BBB. She certainly did well with Bob Hope in the numerous specials. She could also be one who suffered from the idea that beautiful, sexy women aren't allowed to be funny. She was in her 30s when the movie was done so she's closer to the mark than Lucy. And her husband could have been Beau.

I also think that a younger Mame could have brought something different to the project.

by Anonymousreply 260Last Sunday at 5:52 AM

[quote] The Roundabout version of "Cabaret" has only gotten worse in subsequent incarnations. I saw the national tour at the Kennedy Center recently, and it was so "dark" and "edgy," they should have handed out razor blades to the audience at the beginning. It came off like a parody of the original Roundabout production. I never appreciated Liza more than when this production's Sally had a hilarious nervous breakdown while singing "Cabaret." I think I exaggerate my memories sometimes, but I swear she ended the number by shrieking and running offstage, like Jeanette Nolan as Lady Macbeth in Orson Welles' movie.

Yikes. I get that they want something for Sally other than a second-rate Liza impersonator, or even a first-rate one, but goddammit at least try and put a little bit of fun into it. Not in the cutesy-sugary forced happiness sense that makes the worst kids' movies and TV shows so difficult to watch, but something that makes it look like they actually understand the lyrics they are singing. The Kit Kat Klub (was that intentional to make their acronym KKK?) is trying to distract you from creeping Nazism while subtly enabling it. By taking any kind of joie de vie out of it altogether, this is what you get. It sounds like they're play every song as if it were "Tomorrow Belongs to Me."

by Anonymousreply 261Last Sunday at 5:57 AM

Ladies please note r251 which is actual gossip not blathering theater queen opinions about long forgotten and-or misbegotten musicals

by Anonymousreply 262Last Sunday at 5:57 AM

You call that gossip, R251? Both you and R262 can take misogyny, mis-sexing, ableism and condescension and shove it up your flahooley.

by Anonymousreply 263Last Sunday at 6:01 AM

[quote]Ladies please note [R251] which is actual gossip not blathering theater queen opinions about long forgotten and-or misbegotten musicals

It's only gossip if you actually know who the person is that is being gossiped about.

by Anonymousreply 264Last Sunday at 6:05 AM

By taking any kind of joie de vie out of it altogether, this is what you get. It sounds like they're play every song as if it were "Tomorrow Belongs to Me."

That's exactly what it was like, R261. Utterly grim from the start, so this version had absolutely nowhere to go.

by Anonymousreply 265Last Sunday at 6:06 AM

Hey, R245/douchebag, I’ve been in “the biz” for over 30 years. Do you actually think the title number from Mame was actually shot at a plantation? That’s hilarious. I don’t believe the outskirts of LA had plantations at any time in history. You so funny!

by Anonymousreply 266Last Sunday at 6:09 AM

No, r259, she did not inherit her brother's estate. That's kind of the whole point. Patrick inherited his father's estate, and was held in trust for him, with Babcock as the trustee in total control of every penny. The last thing Mame's brother would ever do is leave her money. I defer to somebody more familiar with the show, but didn't he say something in his will like the only reason she got custody of Patrick is because she's all the family he has left, and god help him? Or some sentiment like that? (Or am I imagining that?)

by Anonymousreply 267Last Sunday at 6:09 AM

Mame and Bye Bye Birdie were both choreographed by Onna White and you can see the difference between Lucy and A-M. Lucy blends into the scenery where A-M commands the screen. Lucy's nicest moment in Mame comes at the end of the number when she sees Beau and rushes to him. If A-M had done Mame, it might not have seemed so old fashioned. Ironically, that has allowed Mame to become somewhat better with age because it seems like something from a bygone era. A-M's turn in Tommy now looks more dated than Mame.

by Anonymousreply 268Last Sunday at 6:15 AM

ABC needs to show the infinitely superior [italic]Bedknobs and Broomsticks[/italic] instead and show it uncut with limited commercial interruption. I'm tired of that film being vilified by the fat, self-loathing, pathetic losers who can't recognize what a poorly written, maudlin, white hetero-gentile supremacist piece of shit film that cunt with the umbrella is and what a shit ally the Widow Edwards is. Instead they go after Lansbury, a superior actress, singer, and gay ally, and project the flaws of the umbrella bitch film onto every other musical and hybrid of the era, while suppressing the far superior [italic]Song of the South[/italic] and enabling sex offenders at the same time.

At least TCM is showing [italic]Pete's Dragon[/italic] as part as this season's Disney block for those who want a Disney musical they can actually stomach. And if you don't want a stomach like Elliott's, then ditching sugar altogether is a step in the right direction.

Those three movies = L, G, and B

That bitch = The T that must be dropped

by Anonymousreply 269Last Sunday at 6:19 AM

[quote]And her husband could have been Beau.

Because her husband was the original adult Patrick, right?

by Anonymousreply 270Last Sunday at 6:28 AM

I believe s,o r270.

by Anonymousreply 271Last Sunday at 6:32 AM

Looks like Disney's going to have a different kind of Br'er named Fox.

Seriously, even LEVI! was better than that fucking shit, and it makes me angry that the Sherman Brothers' worst work is their most popular; It's A Small World is to them as Leave Me Alone (Ruby Red Dress) is to Helen Reddy (except that the former made the latter that much more tolerable) and I never cried for that horrible birds song (unlike Baby Mine which is genuinely heartbreaking either in [italic]Dumbo[/italic] or when sung by Bette Midler in [italic]Beaches[/italic] around the time she actually became a mother, this is just saying "eat eat eat" and the constant refrain of "tuppence" sounds like "Trump/Pence"; happy now, deplorables?) but I cried for two of the songs at that show. It's their "oh my god what have we done show" and it's something they never would have gotten the opportunity to do if they had stayed at Disney studios after B&B (outside of a couple theme park songs). I hope it gets produced more and gets some kind of a recording.

And speaking of Bette Midler, with all the millennial veneration of [italic]Hocus Pocus[/italic] for the drag queen-esque costumes, [italic]Bedknobs[/italic] does more to depict witchcraft in a positive light, and Eglantine Price is the creation of an actual Englishwoman named Mary, not a self-hating Australian named Helen who hated the color red. And I take back what I said about that narcissistic Goff woman being almost as bad a mother as Joan Crawford. She was worse. Joan Crawford didn't break up a set of twins like she did. Joan Crawford was at Pepsi when that horrid piece of globalization propaganda was put up at the World's Fair before they moved it to Disneyland.

by Anonymousreply 272Last Sunday at 6:35 AM

[italic]Auntie Mame[/italic] and [italic]Bedknobs and Broomsticks[/italic] are hints of the movie LucyMAME could have been with a more competent lead. Even though it's shorter than either of them it feels longer.

by Anonymousreply 273Last Sunday at 6:36 AM

What do you get when you guzzle down sweets,

Eating as much as an elephant eats?

by Anonymousreply 274Last Sunday at 6:43 AM

The darker and more outrageous the Kit Kat Klub becomes in each incarnation of Cabaret, the further I think the show gets from the authors' intention. Cabaret is set in Berlin in 1929-1930, three years before Hilter's chancellorship. It's about the climate as National Socialism was going from a lunatic fringe to mainstream, while the climate was starting to shift around German-born Jews like Herr Schultz. In the Prince production, there was a sort of tacky slickness to "Wilkommen," and the growing horror and dread begins to seep in, as you got to things like the "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" reprise at the party at the end of Act One, the kick line that turns into a goosestep at the top of Act Two, and the ironic ending of "If You Could See Her." You can see a civilized society going to seed in that original version of Cabaret, and I think, given what's happening in the US at this time, the lessons of the show as originally written remain timeless.

It had its virtues, but I always felt the Roundabout version starts dark and decadent from the outset, with its bruised and track marked Emcee and ensemble, and just keeps wallowing further, to the point like it just feels like another time, place and world entirely. If the mood is more sex club than nightclub, I don't know that the show's themes of ignorance, apathy, nationalism of ordinary German citizenry, etc., leading to the rise of National Socialism quite play off. And I saw more than one audience laugh at the Holocaust coda of the Roundabout production, which made me question if any of the production's innovations had truly served the material at all. It's a great and audacious show, no matter what, but I don't think the Mendes/Marshall version is presenting quite the same vision that is present in both the Prince original and in Fosse's radically different but still thematically similar film.

by Anonymousreply 275Last Sunday at 6:45 AM

I LOVE THIS MAN^ R275

DONT GO NOWHERE

by Anonymousreply 276Last Sunday at 6:50 AM

Even I was happier than the Roundabout production!

by Anonymousreply 277Last Sunday at 6:51 AM

R262 Okay, gossip wise: Maybe everyone knows this, but in the days of PRELUDE TO A KISS (and I would imagine right up to the present) Mary Louise Parker was extremely anorexic. I mean, to the point where the staff and producers were terrified she was going to miss shows. (I don't know if she actually did.) I have so little patience for that self-indulgent disease...just eat a f-ing sandwich and get over your selfcentered, self-invented problem. Then open your eyes and take in the world around you. Loser.

by Anonymousreply 278Last Sunday at 7:10 AM

Then just WAIT for Molly Brown to sail in to the Roundabout next year

by Anonymousreply 279Last Sunday at 7:11 AM

It doesn't matter, r254. What matters is the dramatic arc...and the Mendes production started where it should have ended and had no place to go. You're supposed to get sucked into vortex imperceptibly, not have it thrust in your face from the get-go.

Nothing will ever supersede the original Prince production, not even the movie, masterful as it is.

by Anonymousreply 280Last Sunday at 7:24 AM

[quote]You can see a civilized society going to seed in that original version of Cabaret, and I think, given what's happening in the US at this time, the lessons of the show as originally written remain timeless.

That's a very depressing thought, to be honest.

And the same people are being targeted as before.

by Anonymousreply 281Last Sunday at 7:27 AM

The original conception of Cabaret is very much a post-war American view of things--and completely wrong historically. America viewed non-conformism as a threat to societal order. It makes it appear that the same impulse that gave rise to the cabarets gave rise to the Nazis. The artists in the Cabarets were fighting against the Nazi ideology and to present them as somehow part of the same movement is to blame the victim.

Mendes version is a bit heavy handed, but it is more historically accurate and does not slander the people who resisted the Nazi by presenting them as complicit.

by Anonymousreply 282Last Sunday at 7:38 AM

You guys miss the point of the Kit Kat Klub. First , your arguements are historically inaccurate. A great deal has been written about Weimar Germany and, as I wrote earlier, familiarize yourself with the artists of the time who used the cabaret scene as inspiration.

Second, the journey is taken by Cliff and Sally, the innocent outsiders, not the club. The club is sleazy. The MC makes it clear with the "every one a virgin" line. Nearly every girl there is a cheap whore (and a few of the men as well). This wasn't the sort of cabaret where Marlene Dietrich performed, or the political satire of Mischa Spoliansky was sung. Decadence such as the Kit Kat Klub was one of the reasons the Nazis came to power.

by Anonymousreply 283Last Sunday at 7:41 AM

The very best Sally Bowles--- Jill Haworth in the original.

by Anonymousreply 284Last Sunday at 7:45 AM

I agree with the people posting here who think the Mendes-Marshall CABARET is too dark, too heavy-handed, and too hyper sexual from the beginning, but that version has become so successful that in a way it seems pointless to argue against it. Obviously a lot of audiences respond to that kind of sensationalism, and I guess they buy into that interpretation of the Kit Kat Klub.

by Anonymousreply 285Last Sunday at 8:17 AM

Is it really Sally's journey? Cliff I could see. He's a witness and a way in for the audience, at least an American audience. I always see her line about "It's politics, and what does that have to do with us?" (not sure if I have that right) as her key statement, as well as Cliff's final lines about "it was the end of the world..." etc. I get swept up more by what is happening in the Schneider/Schultz relationship, and Schultz's line about "I understand them. For I am German" line, since it's the sentiment of so many German Jews who ignored all of the warning signs. I think part of what makes the Prince approach more interesting to me is that at a certain point, the Kit Kat Klub numbers just started to appear in a type of limbo, instead of the literalness of everything being the Kit Kat Klub in the Mendes/Marshall version.

I come from German/Austrian parents and grandparents, so I can talk about this shit all day. And Cabaret just holds endless fascination for me. That it was first produced 20 years after WWII is incredible enough. That Kander & Ebb wrote the show that they did after the general floppiness of Flora the Red Menace is also astounding to me. And good as his work is on She Loves Me, Masteroff's book for Cabaret is on another level. I know Cabaret is recognized as one of the greats, but to me, it's as critical a show in the development of musical theatre as other milestones like Show Boat, Oklahoma! and the rest.

Now, back to Follies...

by Anonymousreply 286Last Sunday at 8:46 AM

[quote] Now, back to Follies...

Follies where the girls were nude dancers. Hmmm, Sally's "Losing My Mind" could be sung while she is stripping for the male patrons. And Phyllis' "Lucy and Jessie" takes on a whole new meaning if nobody knows that Phyllis is actually working in a strip club.

And oh, what I could do with In Buddy's Eyes!!

by Anonymousreply 287Last Sunday at 8:51 AM

I actually think Arthur Laurents was probably right to stifle Mendes during his GYPSY. Who even knows what we would have gotten if he'd had full creative control. I'm sure we would have had actual nude strippers (maybe not so bad.) I certainly remember something about how he wanted "Rose's Turn" to be uglier and have Bernadette with mascara running down her face by the end of it. Actually, that might have worked. What we ended up getting was...well, I still don't know what it was, but it managed to make the show fairly boring.

by Anonymousreply 288Last Sunday at 9:15 AM

I'm guessing Laurents wasn't so much against Mendes making GYPSY darker and grittier as he was against anyone other than himself directing the show. There sure were plenty of dark and gritty (and stupid) ideas in Laurents' last revival of WEST SIDE STORY.

by Anonymousreply 289Last Sunday at 9:26 AM

R286, the musical is about Sally' journey, as well as Cliff's . The problem is that the movie muddles it quite a bit. Casting Liza Minnelli didn't help. In the musical, Sally sings "Don't Tell Momma" which is a naughty, but still rather naif song. Sally starts as a rebellious school girl who gets in over her head. (And, yes, the song was originally intended as Sally singing about Sally. I asked Kander about that.) With Mein Herr, Sally starts as a worldly and experienced narcissist. It throws the story arc off. I hated the oversized chair and lollypop in the Donmar production, but they at least were an attempt to restore some of Sally's naivety. (Note: I have only seen the Donmar production. I friend was screwed our of doing the costumes for the Roundabout transfer and I refuse to see it in any form.) Both Sally and Cliff are foreigners who get in over their heads. Cliff manages to escape, Sally...?

R286, my grandparents were German as well. My material grandfather died in Dachau. One of the protestants who tried to something about the Nazis and have been written out of history.

by Anonymousreply 290Last Sunday at 9:45 AM

[quote]The club is sleazy.

Not to Christopher Isherwood it wasn’t. It was based on his stories, after all, he was the real “Cliff,” and he’s the one who lived it.

by Anonymousreply 291Last Sunday at 11:35 AM

[quote]R288 have Bernadette with mascara running down her face by the end of it.

Wouldn't that be a given in any BP performance, tho. That dame CANNOT stop crying!!

It's annoying, self indulgent, and too nakedly manipulative.

by Anonymousreply 292Last Sunday at 11:35 AM

If the Mendes version was such an abomination compaed to the original, why didn't K&E put a stop to it?

by Anonymousreply 293Last Sunday at 11:56 AM

R291, the musical is quite different from both Isherwood's book and the play, I am a Camera. The Kit Kat Klub (named after an English political club, for the person who asked) is an amalgamation of several Berlin clubs including Lady Windemere's (where the historic "Sally" Jean Ross sang) and the Eldorado, a transvestite bar, among others. Isherwood describes them more completely in his bio.

by Anonymousreply 294Last Sunday at 12:09 PM

The very best [FILL IN ROLE] was [WHOEVER HAPPENED TO PLAY IT FIRST] ... there, have we summed up the internet?

by Anonymousreply 295Last Sunday at 12:18 PM

Do you believe that a great classic musical can withstand directorial concepts or do you think that if these revisals are successful, future generations will forget and lose sight of the creators original intentions?

Sondheim seems to be ok with any sort of directorial tinkering with his own work (and I think he honestly is ok, it's not just about receiving royalties), but he was mightily pissed by Diane Paulus' abridged revision of Porgy and Bess.

by Anonymousreply 296Last Sunday at 12:25 PM

R290, so you managed to miss all 2,377 performances of the first transfer and 388 of its revival...?

by Anonymousreply 297Last Sunday at 12:45 PM

People can hate on the Mendes-Marshall CABARET all they want, but it is iconic and rightly so for the dark depths it plumbed. And, it went deep in its darkness...

Plus, it ran three times longer than every other revival combined, so a lot of people saw it. It may be as legendary as the film, actually.

At least for anyone under 70.

Few who saw the finale of the revival cannot say it was a powerful coup de theatre on the level of the Golden Age. A true masterstroke of direction/concept.

by Anonymousreply 298Last Sunday at 3:44 PM

I hated that electrocution ending of the Mendes version. The whole thing was awful. Now, I saw it with Matt McGrath and Gina Gershwin, neither of whom was very good.

A few months later I saw the tour in LA with Norbert Leo Butz and Joeley Fisher, both of whom were outstanding. That production almost made a case for itself.

by Anonymousreply 299Last Sunday at 4:40 PM

Betty Lynn is moving back to NYC!!!! Let's hope she does some theatre.

by Anonymousreply 300Last Sunday at 4:54 PM

[quote]Betty Lynn is moving back to NYC!!!!

We don't want her.

by Anonymousreply 301Last Sunday at 5:04 PM

R299 ? It was a gas chamber.

Get it?

(Maybe not.)

by Anonymousreply 302Last Sunday at 5:07 PM

[quote]Few who saw the finale of the revival cannot say it was a powerful coup de theatre on the level of the Golden Age. A true masterstroke of direction/concept.

I am one of the "few." That image was appalling, and not in a good way. Theater porn.

by Anonymousreply 303Last Sunday at 6:25 PM

Spoiler wanted. Never saw this.

What happened at the end that made it a master stroke?

It turns out the whole thing is the emcee's dream as he's being electrocuted in a gas chamber?

by Anonymousreply 304Last Sunday at 6:49 PM

[quote] What happened at the end that made it a master stroke?

Spoiler alert. The final image of the Emcee is him in a concentration camp prisoner uniform.

by Anonymousreply 305Last Sunday at 7:02 PM

I thought it was the Emcee against one of thos electrified fences (as in Bent) that killed them if they touched it. I thought him putting his arms up in the crucifixion pose was stupid.

by Anonymousreply 306Last Sunday at 7:37 PM

So the Emcee was a self-loathing Jew who kissed up to the Nazis and still ended up in the camps? Was that basically the takeaway from his character? Or perhaps we never really know because he was so mysterious?

by Anonymousreply 307Last Sunday at 7:55 PM

He would have wound up in the camps for being homosexual, too. At the end he has a pink triangle on his uniform, although I think he may also have had a Star of David. In any event, it was totally unnecessary. The original ending, with the Emcee going on with the show, was scarier. The Mendes one hits you over the head.

by Anonymousreply 308Last Sunday at 8:05 PM

For those that didn't see it... apart from the 100,000+ people who did, apparently...

The Emcee appears in Holocaust garb, with pink heart and star of David, all of the sets fly out (having been there behind the action all the show) and it becomes a blinding white room, filling with smoke. He sings the last lines of "Wilkommen" reprise, makes Hitler salute and breathes in as the stage fills with smoke and stobes.

There was no electrocution. I feel like most people commenting didn't even see it (you only had 25 years). It ran forever. I saw it four times in 10 years. Jeez.

by Anonymousreply 309Last Sunday at 9:20 PM

....pink heart, R309?

by Anonymousreply 310Last Sunday at 9:25 PM

To add to R306 , the crucifixion imagery was dependent on the performer, I believe. Could be wrong.

I remember Raul Esparza, Norbert Leo Butz and Matt McGrath doing it, but I do not think Cumming did that staging. I don't think NPH did it either.

Could be wrong.

Oh, and, pardon me: pink triangle (which is also a heart shape if we're being technical), R309 (mary!)

by Anonymousreply 311Last Sunday at 9:28 PM

R309, didn't they have any orange stars, yellow moons, or green clovers...?

by Anonymousreply 312Last Sunday at 9:31 PM

That's for the 2020 revival.

Starring Ariana Grande and Garrett Clayton.

by Anonymousreply 313Last Sunday at 9:33 PM

BTW here is the original Mendes (without Marshall) ending they did in the UK before Broadway... at Studio 54 the set flew out and it was all white, with smoke, but here Cumming does the same thing, in Holocaust garb, with crucifixion pose. It was always between a bow and the full crucifixion pose from my memory. Whatever you want. It is chilling, either way.

by Anonymousreply 314Last Sunday at 9:40 PM

PS Here is Cumming with Emma Stone in the 2014 revival.

by Anonymousreply 315Last Sunday at 9:47 PM

[quote]pink triangle (which is also a heart shape if we're being technical)

In what world is a pink triangle the same as a heart shape?

by Anonymousreply 316Last Monday at 12:56 AM

Emma Stone's pretty good as Sally Bowles.

by Anonymousreply 317Last Monday at 1:21 AM

I saw the original production of Cabaret, twice, the first night with understudies Signe Hasso and Penny Fuller, and the second night with Lotte Lenya and Jill Haworth.

I preferred Haworth’s Sally; she had a fascinating edge to her, as if she knew she was an otherwise conventional person at heart, but yet was always fighting it, trying to be a daring Bohemian, but knowing it was all a sham. And, unlike most all the other actresses in the role, she actually performed it as a fourth rate performer, which is what Sally Bowles is supposed to be.

Minnelli in the movie always struck me as just too much a star for the role, which made her numbers unreal. Either we accept that the songs she does are set in some surreal ether, or we assume everyone watching her is an idiot, because a performer that good would have risen to better things long ago.

And, though I found the subplot with Jewish grocer Schultz sort of gratuitous, Prince was able to twist the character’s Jewish humor into a knot with “If You Could See Her” in Act II. In the movie, Fosse reverted to the original play, I Am a Camera, to substitute the Natalie Landauer subplot, which I actually found more gratuitous, because it wasn’t musical at all. Fosse’s movie seems more a documentary of cultural episodes, interspersed with musical commentary.

The original show was much more insidious, with the Nazi miasma only gradually leaking out. I’ve seen only videos of the Mendes production, but it strikes me as more melodramatic. In the original, Emcee Grey took a deep bow, then quickly left, leaving that distorted mirror to reflect our smug selves.

by Anonymousreply 318Last Monday at 3:17 AM

I saw the original when I was 15. The ending blew me away and I left shaking. It has stayed with me all these years. All the vignettes of the various people heading into a future that the audience knows about, but the character are blithely unaware of, was chilling. The revival's ending, I thought, was overkill. If the MC ends up in a camp, he was a Nazi anyway, so who cares?

by Anonymousreply 319Last Monday at 4:08 AM

Wasn't there a non-Mendes London production where the Emcee and the Kit Kat Klub boys and girls were naked, hovering around a gas pipe at the end? I think Anna Maxwell Martin was Sally.

by Anonymousreply 320Last Monday at 4:13 AM

. "Decadence such as the Kit Kat Klub was one of the reasons the Nazis came to power. "

R283 or anyone, could you explain this?

I'm a teenager. But seriously I'm very curious why!

by Anonymousreply 321Last Monday at 4:17 AM

So the emcee is gay and a jew and in a final crucifixion pose? That makes no sense and is amateurish as well.

Cats ran for decades and I never had the slightest desire to see it.

by Anonymousreply 322Last Monday at 4:20 AM

[quote] . "Decadence such as the Kit Kat Klub was one of the reasons the Nazis came to power. "

I've heard some religious Jews talk about this and they put a Sodom & Gomorrah spin on it. They say the morals and fabric of society had degenerated so much that people were powerless over the rise of Hitler. But that is a common theme in the Hebrew canon, so I don't know whether that's the real reason or not.

by Anonymousreply 323Last Monday at 4:22 AM

I'm one who thought the Mendes ending was manipulative. You're hitting me over the head with the fact that the rise of Hitler and the Holocaust were horrible and affected everyone? No shit, Sherlock.

by Anonymousreply 324Last Monday at 4:26 AM

I didn't like the film of Cabaret at all. Minnelli is annoying, working too hard to be a powerhouse and charmless to me and Fosse in the 70s became god awful and mannered. Can't stand his stuff but in the 50s and 60s he was quite wonderful.

I like the obc very much and wish I could have seen the original production. I love the opening with Ron Field's staging from the Tony's('67?) Also I like Haworth a lot.

by Anonymousreply 325Last Monday at 4:29 AM

How do you get that the MC is a Nazi?

The ending of Mendes production reminds us that the people who performed in the Cabaret were the Nazi's targets and were on borrowed time. I never got that in the original production and film where you could believe that the Nazi's might like the cabaret.

by Anonymousreply 326Last Monday at 4:31 AM

[quote]Minnelli in the movie always struck me as just too much a star for the role, which made her numbers unreal. Either we accept that the songs she does are set in some surreal ether, or we assume everyone watching her is an idiot, because a performer that good would have risen to better things long ago.

That's not necessarily true in every case. Lots of talented people toil in obscurity for whatever reason while people less talented than they get ahead. Heterosexual men feel uncomfortable with women like Sally who speak off the cuff (even in a nice way) so they try to keep them down any way they can. One of Liza's best non-singing scenes in the movie is the dinner scene where Sally uses the word "screwing," then tries to explain what that means to Natalia.

by Anonymousreply 327Last Monday at 4:31 AM

[quote] How do you get that the MC is a Nazi?

We don't. When he ends "If You Could See Her" by comparing the gorilla to a Jew, that shows that all their supposed sexual liberation is just a façade for their antisemitism. But they treat it as a joke. Contrast it to the Nazis who make it a way of life. They're honest about who they hate and what they want to do to the people they hate. The MC, and by proxy the Klub, are enablers, even though Jews as a whole are more tolerant of this than Nazis.

by Anonymousreply 328Last Monday at 4:34 AM

[quote]That's why it's cathartic when the Nazis get beat up in BEDKNOBS & BROOMSTICKS

Yeah, but Mary Poppins doesn't even have Nazis

by Anonymousreply 329Last Monday at 4:35 AM

"They say the morals and fabric of society had degenerated so much that people were powerless over the rise of Hitler."

Do you mean "morals" or sexuality? And can someone say exactly what it was morally or sexually that occurred to leave Germany open to this besides what we already have heard?

by Anonymousreply 330Last Monday at 4:54 AM

R328, I think you miss the point entirely. The absurdity of saying an ape looks like a jew is a dig at the absurdity of antisemitism.

An actual antisemite would not create a number that makes antisemitism look ridiculous.

And historically, I doubt any pro-Nazi could have had a career in the cabarets. It would be like a Trump supporter trying to get a job on SNL.

by Anonymousreply 331Last Monday at 4:56 AM

but wasnt the point that they were infiltrating and so were being played to? At least that was the end of the movie.

by Anonymousreply 332Last Monday at 5:00 AM

DL right now.

by Anonymousreply 333Last Monday at 5:09 AM

[quote]It would be like a Trump supporter trying to get a job on SNL.

They didn't need to; they enabled another sex offender before anyone outside of NYC ever heard of Trump, whom another NBC show has already enabled.

by Anonymousreply 334Last Monday at 5:09 AM

R333: Honestly I think Kander & Ebb's output is more creatively satisfying. It makes you actually want to watch it. Sondheim is too eat-your-vegetablesy, something you feel obligated to like because all your other peers do. I watched both [italic]Into the Woods[/italic] with Bernadette Peters and [italic]Company[/italic] with Raul Esparza and found them both a bit of a letdown.

by Anonymousreply 335Last Monday at 5:12 AM

Yes R320. Mr. Kander flew to Londonto see it. He hated it.And there was that nude scene finale as you described

by Anonymousreply 336Last Monday at 5:33 AM

r335 I don't think the John Doyle production with Esparza is a great way to get to know Company. You miss the Tunick orchestrations (the backup singers!), for one thing, and every actor plays it the same way, like they're throwing out one-liners in a bad sitcom. As for Into the Woods, well, I hope at least you enjoyed Act 1.

by Anonymousreply 337Last Monday at 5:36 AM

I was awake for act one so obviously I enjoyed that more.

by Anonymousreply 338Last Monday at 5:37 AM

Sondheim never channeled enough of his sexuality into his works and much suffers because of that. But whats great is GREAT! Into the woods wasnt THAT! And most of his shows were on an adolescent level of human emotion. As,with his 30 year old lover,it turns out so is he. But I LOVES me some Sondeim.

by Anonymousreply 339Last Monday at 5:45 AM

I agree that Sally can be a powerhouse performer, but too fucking neurotic to take her career beyond the KKC.

by Anonymousreply 340Last Monday at 5:50 AM

[quote]When he ends "If You Could See Her" by comparing the gorilla to a Jew, that shows that all their supposed sexual liberation is just a façade for their antisemitism.

I think that moment can be interpreted in different ways. It could be meant to indicate that the MC himself is not Jewish, but not necessarily. However you interpret it, I think it's just supposed to represent the kind of political "humor" that would be done in a cabaret at that time.

by Anonymousreply 341Last Monday at 5:55 AM

r339 Yeah, Company could have been more interesting if it involved a Bobby who contemplated issues not only of marriage and commitment but also of sexuality. What we got in terms of the latter was that awkward conversation with Peter (?) that came out of nowhere and went nowhere. And wasn't that just tacked on in some revival or other, I could be wrong.

Or, having first come across Company in the early 90's, maybe I'm just looking for too much from a show written in the 70's. Different times, different possibilities.

[quote]An actual antisemite would not create a number that makes antisemitism look ridiculous.

Wouldn't this be more characteristic of the current brand of anti-Semitism? I'm thinking the Richard Spencer type of well-dressed white supremacism. (Yeah, I know, well-dressed is relative. That vest is hideous.) I imagine anti-Semitism in the 30's was far more overt, and a number that portrays a Jew as a gorilla might not have been thought ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 342Last Monday at 6:02 AM

[quote]Yeah, Company could have been more interesting if it involved a Bobby who contemplated issues not only of marriage and commitment but also of sexuality. What we got in terms of the latter was that awkward conversation with Peter (?) that came out of nowhere and went nowhere. And wasn't that just tacked on in some revival or other, I could be wrong.

The whole "Poor Baby' /"Tick Tock" sequence, including the long scene with April, is about sexuality. Heterosexuality. Bobby is not supposed to be gay or even "questioning." That's not the point of the show.

by Anonymousreply 343Last Monday at 6:26 AM

EXACTLY R342--and what we got was Barcelona where he's finally being sexual-or had been. And no real romance in Into the Woods. And dont tell me it was a fairytale for kids: A bakers wife and a prince coming out of a roll in the hay. Woods are about sex. Not here! And just nudity in the first minutes of Passion as if its all he could muster? And Kiss Me from Sweeney is a joke. Where did he ever let it rip?

by Anonymousreply 344Last Monday at 6:26 AM

WRONG R343-

Poor Baby/fuckin Tick Tock sequence wasnt about "sexuality" It was about HAVING SEX Where the fuck were the leveLs in THAT?

by Anonymousreply 345Last Monday at 6:29 AM

What does the word "sexuality" mean to you, R345?

by Anonymousreply 346Last Monday at 6:31 AM

r343 I realize that it isn't the point of the show. I'm just addressing r339's point that there isn't enough of Sondheim's sexuality in his shows. Just a case of woulda been, coulda been: if he had been out his whole adult life, how different would his shows have been? There is, of course, no sure answer but one could always wonder.

r344 Some would say Passion sounded like one long fart, interrupted by an intermission. (I'm not one of them!)

by Anonymousreply 347Last Monday at 6:34 AM

Most antisemites aren't smart enough for that kind of nuance despite the protests to the contrary, R342.

by Anonymousreply 348Last Monday at 6:35 AM

Nazis routinely compared Jews to apes. If You Could See Her isn't a spoof of Nazism. It's Nazism itself.

Also, the Emcee is on stage during the first singing of the show's Nazi anthem, Tomorrow Belongs To Me. He's quite happy to listen to it, and after it he's smiling at the audience. "Leering" is the word in the script.

by Anonymousreply 349Last Monday at 6:48 AM

I was there first preview and to me it was R347 albeit with some of Sondheim best music unfortunately.

And as for sexuality R346- sexuality to me is about 2 separate forces coming together to create a 3rd force - Now that can be a baby or just an orgasm- or a work of art that energizes and invigorates from your core. Its the electricity behind everything. And although invigoration takes many forms,this is one form he does not seem able to take. Although I do loves me some Merrily overture to get me goin!

by Anonymousreply 350Last Monday at 6:52 AM

It's a pastiche, not a spoof. Mel Brooks does spoofs.

by Anonymousreply 351Last Monday at 6:53 AM

by the way, this kid is amazing in this---

by Anonymousreply 352Last Monday at 6:54 AM

[quote]I realize that it isn't the point of the show. I'm just addressing [R339]'s point that there isn't enough of Sondheim's sexuality in his shows.

Thanks. I don't agree that Sondheim's shows are in any way lacking because "there isn't enough of his sexuality in them." I'm not even sure what that means.

[quote]Nazis routinely compared Jews to apes. If You Could See Her isn't a spoof of Nazism. It's Nazism itself. Also, the Emcee is on stage during the first singing of the show's Nazi anthem, Tomorrow Belongs To Me. He's quite happy to listen to it, and after it he's smiling at the audience. "Leering" is the word in the script.

Right, and if you follow that interpretation, the Emcee could end up in a concentration camp anyway -- not because he's Jewish, but because he's gay. I just don't think we need to SEE him end up in concentration camp and be electrocuted on stage.

by Anonymousreply 353Last Monday at 6:56 AM

[quote]Thanks. I don't agree that Sondheim's shows are in any way lacking because "there isn't enough of his sexuality in them." I'm not even sure what that means.

It means they're not gay enough despite Sondheim actually being gay.

by Anonymousreply 354Last Monday at 6:58 AM

Exactly how much of "Sondheim's sexuality" do you really want to see?! I’m pretty sure the NYFD fire safety laws prohibit snuffing out cigarettes on a chorus boy's bare ass onstage.

by Anonymousreply 355Last Monday at 7:17 AM

" I don't agree that Sondheim's shows are in any way lacking because "there isn't enough of his sexuality in them." I'm not even sure what that means."

If youre not sure what that means,as you said, then how can you agree or NOT?

And R354 I am not gay. I am a human sexual being who misses that in the works of one of my favorite composers though I understand the times in which he wrote.

What I said was much suffers because of that in that much more of an inner nature could have been written as he did while in love writing "Loving You" -and No One's Ever Loved You from Passion.

As much as I love him, I feel much more could have been expressed and more deeply/sensuously had he lived that way himself.

But then maybe he would have been distracted.

I guess his German side won out ;)

And for us, that might have been to our benefit.

by Anonymousreply 356Last Monday at 7:18 AM

r356 You beat me to it on No One Has Ever Loved Me. I might have mentioned it on these threads before. To my ears, that short passage is one of the richest, most beautiful, most heartfelt in Sondheim's entire body of work.

by Anonymousreply 357Last Monday at 7:23 AM

right?

And this, his anthem to being Gay

by Anonymousreply 358Last Monday at 7:29 AM

and notice his lyrics to those 2 songs arent his best, but you can tell he's writing from an experience deep and dear to him.

As deep as sex goes.

by Anonymousreply 359Last Monday at 7:31 AM

Sondheim on love & sex in Bounce

by Anonymousreply 360Last Monday at 7:36 AM

Sondheim on sexual preference......

by Anonymousreply 361Last Monday at 7:46 AM

Boy, that Cliff in the Donmar Cabaret clip is one terrible actor.

by Anonymousreply 362Last Monday at 8:34 AM

[quote] That's not necessarily true in every case. Lots of talented people toil in obscurity for whatever reason while people less talented than they get ahead.

How do you think I won 6 Tonys?

by Anonymousreply 363Last Monday at 9:18 AM

Or ME?

by Anonymousreply 364Last Monday at 9:40 AM

Company is about neither marriage nor relationships, but, like the film Network from the same era, the difficulty and need to "connect" in a depersonalized, dehumanized society. That is Sondheim's great theme, expressed in songs like Being Alive, Anyone Can Whistle, Take Me To The World, With So Little To Be Sure Of, etc., etc.

by Anonymousreply 365Last Monday at 10:39 AM

Is BDSM inherently depersonalized and dehumanized?

by Anonymousreply 366Last Monday at 10:46 AM

[quote]Some would say Passion sounded like one long fart, interrupted by an intermission.

There wasn't an intermission.

by Anonymousreply 367Last Monday at 10:51 AM

[R347] Some would say Passion sounded like one long fart, interrupted by an intermission. (I'm not one of them!)

You're completely off base here. Passion had no intermission!

by Anonymousreply 368Last Monday at 11:05 AM

It had one during some of the previews because I left during it.

by Anonymousreply 369Last Monday at 11:14 AM

I believe R369 is correct. I seem to remember them cutting the intermission during previews.

by Anonymousreply 370Last Monday at 11:18 AM

r368 I stand corrected. I just assumed no one could fart for an hour and a half straight.

by Anonymousreply 371Last Monday at 11:22 AM

Clearly you are under 40.

by Anonymousreply 372Last Monday at 11:24 AM

Passion was one of the worst pieces of dreck ever put on a stage. The only thing worse is "Bounce."

by Anonymousreply 373Last Monday at 11:38 AM

Anna Maxwell Martin as Sally Bowles. It was in 2006.

by Anonymousreply 374Last Monday at 11:38 AM

You said R365---

"Company is about neither marriage nor relationships, but, like the film Network from the same era, the difficulty and need to "connect" in a depersonalized, dehumanized society."

well , yes and no

because at the core-like where SEX happens-depersonalization ends and true connection begins- if but for a second.

Prolonging that second or making a song about it or god willing a show is not something Sondheim can do. Nor his writers.

And unfortunately for me,his shows grow old and somewhat weary because of it.

by Anonymousreply 375Last Monday at 11:39 AM

and I agree R373-with the exception of those 2 great songs.

And Passion showed you where he lived emotionally to think that would play to an audience as anything but her shallow yet dangerous stalking and obsession.

Would SHE have loved HIM like that if he hadnt LOOKED like that?

So she sings "we hear music-they hear drums-youre like me"... we both like books.

YUP!

And then his great moment: "No ones ever loved me as deeply as you. No ones ever loved me like you have" ARE WE SUPPOSED TO CARE about how much someone now loves HIM so deeply?? And that Sondheim did NOT see how shallow this was and WOULD be to an audience ????

Did our maestro write this in a mirror?

And then turn to US calling us "afraid of such emotion"

Sondheim is a genius with a teenagers eros that never grew up.

Maybe his husband will change that for his next piece for the public AT The Public.

by Anonymousreply 376Last Monday at 12:00 PM

r372 I spat out my soup, you cruel man.

r373 So I guess you liked Road Show better than Passion.

r376 Given the source material? I dunno.

by Anonymousreply 377Last Monday at 12:27 PM

Road Show/Bounce/Wise Guys - whatever its incarnation, it was a piece of shit.

by Anonymousreply 378Last Monday at 1:02 PM

When I saw "Passion", people made their own intermission by walking out during the show. I do recall a big laugh Donna Murphy got when she said something like "I'm a bit hard for some people to take". Maybe some pastiche numbers would have helped, too?

by Anonymousreply 379Last Monday at 1:11 PM

The very talented and DL fave Linda Mugleston landed the featured role of Mrs. Pearce in the MFL revival! But will they make her understudy Diana Rigg?????

by Anonymousreply 380Last Monday at 1:12 PM

r379 Maybe Sondheim has been fucking with us all this time. Maybe Passion is really a comedy.

by Anonymousreply 381Last Monday at 1:41 PM

I'm not surprised John Kander hated that Anna Maxwell Martin "Cabaret." Judging from the clips on YouTube, it was not just misguided but incredibly ugly as well.

Having her do the entire "Don't Tell Mama" in a nun's habit was a jaw-droppingly bad idea.

by Anonymousreply 382Last Monday at 1:54 PM

You miss the point, r375--it has nothing to do with sex, it's purely existential.

by Anonymousreply 383Last Monday at 2:08 PM

R381, the preview audiences certainly thought so. All books about it detail how the audiences laughed at all the wrong places.

by Anonymousreply 384Last Monday at 2:15 PM

r379, that would mean they CAME BACK!

by Anonymousreply 385Last Monday at 2:32 PM

I've seen the Rufus Norris CABARET twice. Ihe first was in the West End with something like the third replacement cast. I really liked the Kost. There was a chorus boy/sailor with a Stretch Armstrong penis, who came running out of Kost's room, interrupting Kost and Schneider mid-bicker. When I saw the tour in the regions a few years later, they'd removed the cock flopping. Schneider was played by the Shake n Vac Lady on the tour.

I think pop star Will Young took the same production back into the West End. He's been touring it again in the past year. So that production is basically celebrating 10 years in the UK.

by Anonymousreply 386Last Monday at 3:16 PM

Just to add to the comments on No One Has Ever Loved Me: I find the London revision bizarre. First, Giorgio sings most of it not to Fosca but the doctor (?). ("No one has ever loved me as THAT WOMAN HAS." Good heavens.) And then Sondheim extends it and makes it swell like a bad Andrew Lloyd Webber ballad. Too much of a good thing, or what was a really truly moving good thing. And then he gives the added music some awful lyrics, something like "I was wrong, blah blah blah, love can be SURRENDER, not TENDER, blah blah blah, I love Fosca not like she loves me." Yikes. What Giorgio sings to Fosca is only what was the second verse pre-revision. Too bad. For one thing, Michael Ball was in very fine voice here.

by Anonymousreply 387Last Monday at 3:22 PM

The creatives still deny it but they had to take out the intermission at Passion because they lost three quarters of the audience every night.

Follies had the same problem. During the New York previews, the cabbies knew to be waiting outside the Winter Garden at the end of Act One. That was fine with them because it gave them time to do that fare and then get back to the other theaters at the end of their shows' second acts.

Passion is about a deranged stalker and her unstable willing victim.

by Anonymousreply 388Last Monday at 3:28 PM

Rufus Norris directed that production of Cabaret? That explains a lot. His Threepenny Opera at the NT last year was unwatchable.

by Anonymousreply 389Last Monday at 3:31 PM

Still, because of the book's structure, there isn't really a good place for an intermission. Too Many Mornings is a great song, but not to end an act with. And ending Act 1 with it means you open Act 2 with The Right Girl. Not a great act opener either. Aren't there productions that close Act 1 with Who's That Woman? Not bad. Breaking it up here means opening Act 2 with I'm Still Here. Not bad either.

by Anonymousreply 390Last Monday at 3:34 PM

And I know Lapine and Sondheim claim Passion is about obsession and compulsion but it's still just a soggy melodrama with a second rate score about a deranged stalker. I've posted this before but the night I saw it late in previews, at one point in the second act Fosca threw herself on her knees, grabbed Giorgio tight around his legs and exclaimed "What can I do to proved to you how much I love you!" or words to that effect.

"Let go of his legs!" came the reply from the audience and the house exploded in laughter.

Later the doctor came out and announced her death. A big wave of applause swept the theater.

by Anonymousreply 391Last Monday at 3:43 PM

Never saw Passion.

So it should have been called A Very Scary Stalker Who is More Shallow than the Beautiful Man She is Stalking?

by Anonymousreply 392Last Monday at 4:14 PM

[quote]So it should have been called A Very Scary Stalker Who is More Shallow than the Beautiful Man She is Stalking?

No, it should have been called The Most Boring Musical About The Most Uninteresting People With Not One Redeeming Song And If I Had Knoqn It Was This Shitty I Would Have Stayed Home And Cleaned My Oven Because At Least The Fumes From The Cleaner Would Have Given Me A Bit Of A Lift

by Anonymousreply 393Last Monday at 4:20 PM

Were there reports of walkouts at the NT Follies?

by Anonymousreply 394Last Monday at 4:24 PM

Naw, some people who stayed laughed, just about only that once. Others still left and didn't look back.

by Anonymousreply 395Last Monday at 4:51 PM

[quote]Emma Stone's pretty good as Sally Bowles.

I thought she was excellent and have said before that I think they should've done a new film of the Mendes CABARET with her and Cumming. I believe it would make quite an interesting companion piece to the original Fosse film.

by Anonymousreply 396Last Monday at 4:51 PM

that was about "Passion"

by Anonymousreply 397Last Monday at 4:53 PM

I saw the Emma Stone/Alan Cumming version, and I also thought Emma Stone was excellent. She can sing in tune, but she doesn't have a recording voice, so it made sense that her Sally would be in a second-rate dive in Berlin. And Stone really is a good actress. Supposedly she was offered the choice to open the run but thought it was too much pressure and turned it down, so Michelle Williams opened the show. If Stone had been the first Sally in this run, she would have been nominated for the Tony for sure and might well have won. Jessie Mueller won that year for Beautiful

I also saw the Norbert Leo Butz/Joely Fisher version on tour in SF. They were both very good, although Fisher didn't seem completely comfortable with the accent.

by Anonymousreply 398Last Monday at 5:06 PM

I remember reading that PBS was going to film Cabaret during Stone's run. Not sure what happened or why it fell through but it's a shame. Stone was going to open the show but accepted a film role instead. AnnE Hathaway was also in talks. Poor Michelle Williams got negative reviews but I thought she was actually quite good as was Sienna Miller who came in for the last 2 months of the run.

by Anonymousreply 399Last Monday at 5:10 PM

As much as Ive spoken of my issues with Sondheim and his lack of fire in his work, I was there at Passion and even with all the laughing (and there was) in all the wrong places (and it was) I couldnt IMAGINE having left a new Sondheim musical EVER!!!!!!!

((Unless it was Bounce))

by Anonymousreply 400Last Monday at 5:11 PM

and by the way, Merrily was another mess I didnt leave. But that was because the songs were just so good. I remember hearing "Charlie why cant it be like it was"

And it WAS!

by Anonymousreply 401Last Monday at 5:14 PM

Emma Stone really was an excellent Sally. I was surprised by how great of a stage actor she was. Some film stars can't do it. I thought that was one of the problems with Michelle Williams when she did it. Her Sally was honestly kind of boring. I didn't think it was possible to make Sally Bowles boring. She also seemed to insist on wearing less sexy clothes. Sienna Miller was possibly even worse. She barely even registered. They just made Emma look even better.

I don't see why some network or even Netflix couldn't do a new Cabaret with Emma as Sally. I think a lot of people would tune in.

by Anonymousreply 402Last Monday at 5:37 PM

I think Cumming should do it with her, R402, while he's still young enough to pull it off. They were both great in the "revival revival" a couple years ago.

If Cumming couldn't do it, I do have sort of an offbeat suggestion as a replacement: the adorable Robin Lord Taylor, who plays Penguin in "Gotham." If he can sing, I think he would make a mesmerizing Emcee.

by Anonymousreply 403Last Monday at 5:47 PM

For those familiar with their music, are Pasek & Paul really the best young composers working right now? They just got another Globe nomination this morning for their song in the new Hugh Jackman movie. There just doesn't appear to be anything these guys can't do.

by Anonymousreply 404Last Monday at 5:50 PM

Is that a joke question?

by Anonymousreply 405Last Monday at 5:56 PM

Passion is dreck. There is a lot of passion elsewhere in the canon.

by Anonymousreply 406Last Monday at 6:05 PM

DL makes me question my gayness and taste in musical theater. I absolutely love the score to Passion-it’s gorgeous. Miss Saigon is probably my favorite musical ever, and I adored War Paint. I loathe and despise Cabaret. What’s wrong with me??

by Anonymousreply 407Last Monday at 6:27 PM

You have no taste? I could forgive the Passion and War Paint stuff but Miss Saigon is dreck through-and-through while Cabaret is rightly regarded as a masterpiece.

by Anonymousreply 408Last Monday at 7:22 PM

[quote]ABC needs to show the infinitely superior Bedknobs and Broomsticks instead and show it uncut with limited commercial interruption. I'm tired of that film being vilified by the fat, self-loathing, pathetic losers who can't recognize what a poorly written, maudlin, white hetero-gentile supremacist piece of shit film that cunt with the umbrella is and what a shit ally the Widow Edwards is. Instead they go after Lansbury, a superior actress, singer, and gay ally, and project the flaws of the umbrella bitch film onto every other musical and hybrid of the era, while suppressing the far superior Song of the South and enabling sex offenders at the same time.

We've all seen your photos & videos, Matt. A person with goat titties should be the last one to be calling anyone else fat.

by Anonymousreply 409Last Monday at 7:25 PM

[quote]And [R354] I am not gay. I am a human sexual being who misses that in the works of one of my favorite composers though I understand the times in which he wrote.

*eyeroll*

by Anonymousreply 410Last Monday at 7:26 PM

[quote]There was a chorus boy/sailor with a Stretch Armstrong penis, who came running out of Kost's room, interrupting Kost and Schneider mid-bicker.

Oh my GOD. You just made me remember I saw that production on a family trip to London when I was in 9th or 10th grade. My mom was mortified at that moment & her expression/reaction is family lore. It really was a humongous, flopping penis. Just freakishly long.

I remember not liking the production, and I was at the stage of my life where I loved anything and everything theater, so it must have been truly bad if I was lukewarm on it.

by Anonymousreply 411Last Monday at 7:28 PM

[quote]His Threepenny Opera at the NT last year was unwatchable.

I thought it was the best Brecht I've ever seen. Really got the acid humor and moral ambiguity of Brecht. It was also fun that Rory Kinnear was fucking everybody onstage. The new translation was crude but effective.

by Anonymousreply 412Last Monday at 7:42 PM

Both men and women?

by Anonymousreply 413Last Monday at 7:49 PM

There can be a passionate undercurrent in Sondheim's work, but really I think that's despite his best efforts to tamp that down. Joanna Gleason brought so much to the role of Mrs. Baker, especially opposite Robert Whatshisface, you could really feel the human longing that's often elided over in fairy tales. It's just unfortunate that Boyd Gaines was such a non-entity as Mr. Baker.

Sondheim is too focused on being clever to be passionate. The spontaneity has to be in the performance because it sure as hell isn't in the writing.

by Anonymousreply 414Last Monday at 9:30 PM

Wasn't that Chip Zien?

by Anonymousreply 415Last Monday at 9:44 PM

[quote]DL makes me question my gayness and taste in musical theater. I absolutely love the score to Passion-it’s gorgeous.

I like listening to it a lot, too.

I've seen clips of it on youtube, and like it better just imaginging the action.

The "masterpiece" that leaves me cold is....FOLLIES. I don't care about Lucy, Jessie, or anyone else in there.

by Anonymousreply 416Last Monday at 9:46 PM

Who are Mr. and Mrs. Baker, r414? Do you mean The Baker and The Baker's Wife? If so, that was Joanna Gleason and Chip Zien, not Boyd Gaines.

by Anonymousreply 417Yesterday at 1:08 AM

So I guess it's true that the idea of a Times exposé of Broadway was just a big fiction, right?

by Anonymousreply 418Yesterday at 1:16 AM

The Times was so overwhelmed with new contacts after that weekend when the rumor of the story leaked out that the story has been continually revised since. It's coming, probably as a series.

by Anonymousreply 419Yesterday at 1:23 AM

I saw Passion, which the critics at the time bent over backwards to like, but I was stunned at how deathly intense it all was, like a bad Universal horror movie from the 40’s. In fact, when Murphy appeared in Shea’s railway compartment, covered in deepest black, I actually said out loud, “Look, it's Dracula's daughter!”

This prompted laughs from people around me. In fact, as we were all exiting later, a man said to me that my comment about Dracula’s daughter was the highlight of the show!

I just couldn’t understand how such a moribund piece could have garnered those reviews.

by Anonymousreply 420Yesterday at 2:14 AM

Sam Mendes stopped the cabaret taping. He doesn't want Rob Marshall to get any more acclaim

by Anonymousreply 421Yesterday at 2:29 AM

The NT Follies reaffirms that the show works best (or only) without an intermission.

by Anonymousreply 422Yesterday at 3:34 AM

As the one who started this talk of Sondheim's lack of fire and passion, I like what you said R414 :

"There can be a passionate undercurrent in Sondheim's work, but really I think that's despite his best efforts to tamp that down.

Sondheim is too focused on being clever to be passionate. The spontaneity has to be in the performance because it sure as hell isn't in the writing."

Case in point: Jason Alexander saying Sondheim once stalked him down and shouted at the top of his lungs " Dont you EVER mess around WITH MY SCORE!!!!" when Jason added just a slide of the note to 'HUM' in Merrily's " Its not a tune you can huuuuuum."

Heil Sondheim!

by Anonymousreply 423Yesterday at 3:40 AM

First of all, the line is “there’s not a tune you can hum”

Second, that story is probably 85-95% bullshit. What’s your reference?

by Anonymousreply 424Yesterday at 3:52 AM

I saw the NT Follies twice. I wish I could have seen it more times. Not a fan of "Follies" (but I have seen the original London production, the KC, the Roundabout, and the concert with Murphy) but this was a great production. Perfect staging and an incredible ensemble. Not too crazy about crazy Imelda but that was one for the ages for me.

by Anonymousreply 425Yesterday at 4:09 AM

[quote]Sam Mendes stopped the cabaret taping. He doesn't want Rob Marshall to get any more acclaim

I don't think he has anything to worry about.

by Anonymousreply 426Yesterday at 4:14 AM

Oh I love a challenge when I got the goods

HERE YOU GO R424

(Its even better when HE tells it,no?)

by Anonymousreply 427Yesterday at 4:26 AM

r424 This was actually already mentioned here before, citing the same article as r427.

by Anonymousreply 428Yesterday at 4:42 AM

[quote]Miss Saigon is probably my favorite musical ever

I think a lot of people like Miss Saigon because of its power ballads. It's a highly emotional show and if you like emotion over substance, then you like that show. I'm actually surprised that no pop singer has recorded "Last Night Of The World." Maybe pop singers don't record Broadway anymore?

The problem I have with Miss Saigon is that it blows its wad in Act 1. I find Act 2 is extremely boring music-wise. I think with a bit of tinkering and rewriting, they could end the musical at the end of Act 1 and have a sufficient musical.

by Anonymousreply 429Yesterday at 5:04 AM

[quote]So I guess it's true that the idea of a Times exposé of Broadway was just a big fiction, right?

Are you calling Lea Salogna a liar?

by Anonymousreply 430Yesterday at 5:10 AM

[quote]There can be a passionate undercurrent in Sondheim's work, but really I think that's despite his best efforts to tamp that down. Joanna Gleason brought so much to the role

[quote]Sondheim is too focused on being clever to be passionate. The spontaneity has to be in the performance because it sure as hell isn't in the writing.

This is so true. I think that's why nobody has been able to touch Dorothy Collins' "Losing My Mind." And I think that's why we all with Judy Garland had been around to sing more of Sondheim's songs because she could bring a more heart-felt rendering of the song than many of today's artists.

People are so longing for Sondheim to be performed well that they praise mediocre or wrong performances. I love Judi Dench but her angry "Send In The Clowns" is wrong. And several people have said Bernadette Peters is the chief interpreter of Sondheim. Well that's just as wrong as Elaine Stritch screaming her way through "I'm Still Here." Bernadette weeps her way through the songs and always sings them in that choked voice of hers.

IMO, Cleo Laine came very close to being a chief Sondheim interpreter with her Sondheim album. But I think musical fans really wish there were better Sondheim interpreters. And the poster above nailed it. It's not about singing the song in a clever way. It's about bringing a personalization to the song.

by Anonymousreply 431Yesterday at 5:20 AM

Times piece will reach the public, it escalated and added some very prominent names in the victim stable, expect it before year’s end.

by Anonymousreply 432Yesterday at 5:34 AM

r407 Try reading the libretto, no music. It will make you cringe.

r429 Structurally, Miss Saigon follows Madama Butterfly closely, and most people don't have a problem with the latter. I think what makes Miss Saigon a slog, especially Act 2, is the Engineer. We do not need three Act 2 solos from him. The librettists tried to make something out of him, an I'm-a-survivor stand-in for all the Vietnamese left behind, but it doesn't really work. All of it is jammed into Act 2. That's why it's so boring. We want to see what happens next to Kim, but we get him instead. We already know he'll be fine, and even if we don't, who cares, he's a scumbag. For the most part, the Engineer is just a one-man Greek chorus, commenting on the action. So is Che in Evita, but he also serves as an effective foil for the (anti)-heroine.

r431 Is Bernadette's voice choked, or is it just hoarse and phlegmy? Ditto on Cleo Laine.

by Anonymousreply 433Yesterday at 5:49 AM

^ My response to r407 refers to Miss Saigon.

by Anonymousreply 434Yesterday at 5:51 AM

^ Oh, and when I said ditto on Cleo Laine, I meant I agree that she "came very close to being a chief Sondheim interpreter with her Sondheim album," not that she's choked, or hoarse, or phlegmy. Sorry for the add-ons.

by Anonymousreply 435Yesterday at 5:54 AM

[quote]Is Bernadette's voice choked, or is it just hoarse and phlegmy?

Yes, she can be hoarse and phlegmy. But she uses the choked voice to convey emotion. You can hear it as far back as the Song & Dance cast recording (I'll have to go back and see if I heard it before that). The choked voice may serve an actress effectively once, but she does it all the time to convey sadness, to convey anger and to convey anything where she's trying to "touch" the audience.

by Anonymousreply 436Yesterday at 6:13 AM

I see no need for Bernadette Peters to "touch" me with her phlegm.

by Anonymousreply 437Yesterday at 6:22 AM

the problem with writers like Sondheim and with Lin Manuel Miranda is that they're not content to let their work speak for itself.....they HAVE to be smartest, pithiest, astute, percipient, and savy person in the room at all times. The need to show off their own intellect trumps every artistic impulse.

by Anonymousreply 438Yesterday at 7:26 AM

I’ve said it before & will say it again:

It makes absolutely no sense that the NYT would expose multiple harassers in one article. Each harasser in any industry is a separate story. They would not lump them in together. Why would they get one headline when they can get multiple headlines?

Thus, no “Broadway expose” is coming. There are likely to be other individual stories that come out one at a time, though.

by Anonymousreply 439Yesterday at 7:38 AM

because R438 they cannot offer TRUE sensual beauty. Look at Lin's ballads. And Sondheim's body. Theyre both not in their bodies really. They both live in their minds and their creations yet NEITHER can really sing! the songs they write. And even LIN cant dance. Mind and creation/color and light/ have taken over. But Lin will mellow as has S.

by Anonymousreply 440Yesterday at 7:53 AM

Whoever said that M. Butterfly would never make it to its announced closing date was correct. It's out of here at the end of the week.

by Anonymousreply 441Yesterday at 8:16 AM

Good riddance to that lousy production of M. Butterfly. It sullied my memories of the original, which at the time I thought had brilliant staging and performances by the two leads.

by Anonymousreply 442Yesterday at 8:54 AM

[quote] Sam Mendes stopped the cabaret taping. He doesn't want Rob Marshall to get any more acclaim

That that mediocre nonentity who happens to share a sexual orientation with me can get work directing movies and John Waters can't, regardless of what you think of his most recent film work, makes me cry.

by Anonymousreply 443Yesterday at 8:58 AM

Only people who ain't that smart think the "problem" with Sondheim is that he is too "intellectual." "Johanna?" "Being Alive?" "With So Little To Be Sure Of?" It is possible to do two things at the same time, at least for some, i.e. emotionally rich AND intellectually provocative....

by Anonymousreply 444Yesterday at 9:03 AM

Too bad Sondheim never wrote a show about zombies and wrote a song called "Being Dead" for a zombie to sing. That would be awesomesauce and amazeballs.

by Anonymousreply 445Yesterday at 9:08 AM

you think Being Alive is emotionally rich and intellectually "provocative?" or Johanna the same?

then lets agree to disagree on both emotions and intellect

by Anonymousreply 446Yesterday at 9:17 AM

Just a note that most people probably know, but the Mendes/Donmar production was filmed. I can see why Mendes would not want the Roundabout/Marshall taped as there is already a record of *his* production.

by Anonymousreply 447Yesterday at 9:33 AM

A very white and silver spoon family from Mountain Brook Alabama still owns their family Cotton plantation in Pineapple Alabama from 1840. Its near Evergreen in South Alabama. Carmichael is the last name. They are graduates of the University of Alabama.

by Anonymousreply 448Yesterday at 9:34 AM

The Sondheim song that has always had the most feeling to me is the Johanna Quartet, and Sweeney is slitting throats throughout it. Make of that what you will.

by Anonymousreply 449Yesterday at 9:36 AM

R448, unless its Mount'n Brooks Ashmanskas, nobody on this thread cares.

by Anonymousreply 450Yesterday at 9:37 AM

"Make of that what you will. "

What I make of it R449 is youre one sick puppy!

No, but seriously, I love it too.

by Anonymousreply 451Yesterday at 10:08 AM

[quote]A very white and silver spoon family from Mountain Brook Alabama still owns their family Cotton plantation in Pineapple Alabama from 1840.

That would have been more relevant to the previous thread, banana head!

by Anonymousreply 452a day ago

Hey,Mountain Brook Alabama---

by Anonymousreply 453a day ago

[quote]Too Many Mornings is a great song, but not to end an act with. And ending Act 1 with it means you open Act 2 with The Right Girl. Not a great act opener either.

I half-agree with you. "The Right Girl" isn't a good Act II opener, but I think "Too Many Mornings" works very well as the Act I closer -- especially if the staging has Buddy see Sally and Ben kiss right before the fadeout.

[quote]Structurally, Miss Saigon follows Madama Butterfly closely, and most people don't have a problem with the latter. I think what makes Miss Saigon a slog, especially Act 2, is the Engineer. We do not need three Act 2 solos from him. The librettists tried to make something out of him, an I'm-a-survivor stand-in for all the Vietnamese left behind, but it doesn't really work. All of it is jammed into Act 2. That's why it's so boring. We want to see what happens next to Kim, but we get him instead. We already know he'll be fine, and even if we don't, who cares, he's a scumbag.

Good point. A lot of people seem to find the Engineer entertaining, but I agree there's too much of him in SAIGON, especially in the second act.

by Anonymousreply 454a day ago

R439 exactly, it will be a comprehensive series, which their investigative arm is especially known for..

by Anonymousreply 455a day ago

Yeah, that arm they've kept so strategically tied behind their backs

by Anonymousreply 456a day ago

The role of The Engineer is so built-up because it was created by a Tony and Olivier-winning star. That's also one of the reasons it can seem underwhelming when it's being performed by the second cover.

by Anonymousreply 457a day ago

[quote]I can see why Mendes would not want the Roundabout/Marshall taped as there is already a record of *his* production.

And it's God-awful. Jane Horrocks is terrible as Sally - easily the worst version of "Cabaret" ever - at least Rob Marshall was able to improve it a little in NY.

by Anonymousreply 458a day ago

Jane's awful "Cabaret."

by Anonymousreply 459a day ago

We need a reprint of Michael Feingold's Village Voice review of the original Broadway production of Miss Saigon.

One of the great critical eviscerations of all time.

To say he loathed and despised it is putting it kindly.

by Anonymousreply 460a day ago

Simply good theatre R449, the more horrid and macabre the killing got the prettier the music. Excellent Theatre!

by Anonymousreply 46121 hours ago

Who asked for a Gwenyth Paltrow-produced musical? ugh.

by Anonymousreply 46220 hours ago

Lady Bird has lots of Sondheim, especially in the first half or so. There's a high school production of Merrily. (With t-shirts!) Laurie Metcalf is really good, but I don't think this is the kind of role that wins Oscars (no big moments), so she probably will stay an E--T for now.

by Anonymousreply 46320 hours ago

Metcalfe has won nearly every critic's award so far. I think she has an excellent chance of winning.

by Anonymousreply 46420 hours ago

r464 Oh, don't get me wrong. I do hope she wins. But what's up with NYFCC giving picture and actress to Lady Bird and Ronan, and then supporting actress to Tiffany Haddish? Was this a Cameron Diaz year?

by Anonymousreply 46520 hours ago

Did you know theres now a site with high end graphics called ROTTEN APPLES that tell you if the movie or tv you type in contains a sexual abuser??!!

Just UNREAL where we've landed.

by Anonymousreply 46619 hours ago

i didn't know that Tiffany Haddish won, or that she would have even been recognized in such a role. She was absolutely peerless in Girls Trip. I had not heard of her before seeing the movie, but I will now see any movie she is in. I hope she doesn't keep repeating the same shtick over and over, but she was fearless and hysterical in that movie.

by Anonymousreply 46718 hours ago

"they HAVE to be smartest, pithiest, astute, percipient, and savy person in the room at all times" Oh, please, there's zero comparison between "they." Only Sondheim has the talent to pull it off...AND his music is passionate. Absolutely. Intellectual on many levels, sure, but so is Stravinsky's. Not everything appeals, but so what? He has nothing to prove to anybody. But nothing will ever beat his glorious 70's run from COMPANY to SWEENEY TODD.

by Anonymousreply 46818 hours ago

Dont tell that to Manuella

by Anonymousreply 46918 hours ago

[quote]R466 Did you know theres now a site with high end graphics called ROTTEN APPLES that tell you if the movie or tv you type in contains a sexual abuser??!!

So what's wrong with that?

Some people don't like financially supporting scum like that. Would you send a financial contribution to a political party you violently disagreed with?

by Anonymousreply 47018 hours ago

are you a girl^?

by Anonymousreply 47118 hours ago

Saw "Parisian Woman" tonight. Why the fuck did this ever get produced? It's a piece of ridiculous shit. Uma has no right to be up there, since she has no chemistry with anyone else on that stage, and Josh Lucas is mincing around up there like he's auditioning for Emory. I honestly thought his character was a homosexual. Blair Brown is fine in her first scene, but loses the thread completely in her second. And lots of drunken Trumpers in the audience, swilling champagne, applauding every time Blair's character praises our cheetoh-in-chief. That was really creepy, but not as creepy as Uma's attempt at a performance.

The only one who escapes with her dignity intact is Phillipa Soo.

by Anonymousreply 47217 hours ago

[quote]R471 Are you a girl?

Why...are you?

by Anonymousreply 47317 hours ago

Fuck off, r470. No one is hiring accused sexual predators now, but people can’t be responsible for a movie coming out now that has someone in it that wasn’t known as a predator when it was filmed.

by Anonymousreply 47415 hours ago

r467 She kept repeating the same shtick over and over in that one movie.

by Anonymousreply 47515 hours ago

To even mention Manuela and Sondheim in the same sentence is a sacrilege. Gurl, pls, that Camelltoe shite won't age well...

by Anonymousreply 47614 hours ago

Years ago we were at an event in the VIP area with darling Lin, he was twee and insufferable, non-sexual energy and glad handing like a two-bit local councilman, and then he did the musical about the history starring the blacks, nevermind...

by Anonymousreply 47714 hours ago
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