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It's time to stop talking about toxic masculinity and start talking about toxic heterosexuality.

I'm tired of hearing the phrase "toxic masculinity" because it is nothing but a thinly veiled slur on men. Not all men are masculine and not all who are masculine are men. But heterosexual men still get treated better than gay men, heterosexual men get away with stuff gay men would never be able to get away with in a million years, gay men are still vilified, dehumanized and viewed as less than manly for expressing any kind of emotion, and we are expected to kowtow to heterosexuals at all times or risk being deemed a "threat." Those days are over.

It is not masculinity that is toxic. Masculine men are hot. Masculine men are sexy. Masculine men make me want to have sex with them. Femininity in men can be beautiful up to a point, but a little goes a long way. Nevertheless, feminine men are still MEN and real men recognize the butch/femme dichotomy as an inherently false one that is prejudicial in intent and effect.

No, in reality it is heterosexuality, or at minimum the expectation of mandatory heterosexuality or at least some form of bisexuality, that is toxic. Heterosexual women may get shit from men, independently of sexual orientation, for being women, but they still get privileges lesbians and gay men don't. They get the same privileges the heterosexual men they constantly bitch about get. They get put on a fucking pedestal, a pedestal often designed and built by gay men, and a whole political movement for them and them alone, and still that's not enough for them. There is a war on men and it is a proxy war on gay men.

by Anonymousreply 21Last Thursday at 4:35 PM

What do straight men get away with that gay men can't?

by Anonymousreply 1Last Thursday at 6:38 AM

I don't like Madonna either.

by Anonymousreply 2Last Thursday at 6:40 AM

I don’t think it’s toxic heterosexuality as much as it’s the toxic closeted gay men. There is one guy I know who is out of control. He is one of those fitness obsessed guys who use drugs to achieve his look, it’s obvious. He was ripping through the parking lot last night at like 80mph almost hitting people. He works at my gym and he gives me the chills. I’m no Sylvia Browne, but I sense doom on the horizon.

by Anonymousreply 3Last Thursday at 6:42 AM

Or, I know this is a whacky idea, how about we treat men, women, straight, gays, blacks and whites as individuals instead of a collective. Identity politics is cancer.

by Anonymousreply 4Last Thursday at 6:43 AM

Gay men are also toxic. Just take a quick look at the misogyny in here.

by Anonymousreply 5Last Thursday at 6:45 AM

Toxic masculinity refers to hyper-competition, dehumanizing others, in general making life a game where the object is to defeat or have power over others.

by Anonymousreply 6Last Thursday at 6:56 AM

Hmmmm... Gay men can be just as toxic. Grant, some of that comes from the crippling discrimination and violence a lot of us have suffered, but in many cases the persecuted can be just as bad towards each other as their persecutors were towards them.

by Anonymousreply 7Last Thursday at 7:05 AM

^^^GrantED, not grant!

by Anonymousreply 8Last Thursday at 7:16 AM

I prefer Grant.

by Anonymousreply 9Last Thursday at 7:18 AM

Take the most toxic gay men and compare them to the most toxic heterosexual men, and I can assure the latter is not only worse in toxicity but greater in numbers.

by Anonymousreply 10Last Thursday at 7:20 AM

[quote] Toxic masculinity refers to hyper-competition,

Women do that all the time. That Title IX exists at all is proof that the desire is there.

[quote]dehumanizing others,

Anita Bryant is a woman who sacrificed her career on dehumanizing gay people.

[quote]in general making life a game where the object is to defeat or have power over others.

Leona Helmsley is a woman who did just that.

I reject the idea that women are incapable of being as hurtful as men.

by Anonymousreply 11Last Thursday at 7:23 AM

They are fully capable of course. we use "masculinity" for lack of a better word to encompass these traits. Have you ever met a genuinely effeminate man? They are sweet and fun to be around. Have you ever met a drag queen who is a hypercompetitive dismissive asshole who thinks a few feminine add-ons excuse everything else? Of course you have. And there are female versions of it too, like Lucille LeSueur.

by Anonymousreply 12Last Thursday at 8:57 AM

[quote]Have you ever met a genuinely effeminate man? They are sweet and fun to be around.

Men are capable of being gentle, sensitive, caring, nurturing, being empathetic, and expressing sadness. There's nothing unmanly about any of these things, but these traits are discouraged while negative ones like violence and hatred are encouraged. This is why we treat the men we love so poorly. Sometimes whenever I see a gay man who's still not dealt with his internalized homophobia so he tries to mask it with self-destructive behaviors, I wish I could save him by loving him even though I know I can't help people who don't want to be helped. This is the dating pool of men I have to choose from. I feel like the gay men who would be good for me in a relationship feel like I'm beneath them. I feel like I've failed at everything at my life except for one thing: being faithful to my boyfriends all the time we were together.

by Anonymousreply 13Last Thursday at 11:20 AM

It is not masculinity that is toxic. Masculine men are hot"

Oh honey, all sorts of toxic things are hot! In fact, the sex drive is a very poor judge of who's going to be a lifetime mate, it steers most people away from the nice, sane, stable people who'll make good spouses and towards the toxic sexy man or woman. But that's how humans pick their mates, like it or not.

But since masculinity is largely based around dominance behaviors, of course it can turn toxic very easily. Yes, a dominant male can be deeply kind and caring towards his spouse, offspring, employees, or other people under his sway, but as kindness and caring are separate things it's all to easy to use masculine behaviors in unkind or dangerous ways. Sure, a boundary-free dominant male who slaps you around in the bedroom is as hot as hell, at least for a while, but once the sexual rush wears off what you've got there is an abusive spouse. Take that same person out of the sexual context and you may have a workplace bully, a dangerous driver, a CEO who breaks unions, whatever. So while I do have my issues with heterosexuality (both heteronormativity and heterosexuality itself), toxic masculinity is a real thing.

by Anonymousreply 14Last Thursday at 2:51 PM

[quote] Toxic masculinity refers to hyper-competition, dehumanizing others, in general making life a game where the object is to defeat or have power over others.

Where is it written that all men and only men do these things?

by Anonymousreply 15Last Thursday at 2:54 PM

Uh, what about all the gay pervs that keep getting caught, OP. Ooops.

by Anonymousreply 16Last Thursday at 3:00 PM

Heterosexuality is not normal; it's just more common.

by Anonymousreply 17Last Thursday at 3:02 PM

I know a lot of wimpy, unassertive, doormat, nice, kind heterosexual men. They are not all alpha males, thank god. It's never a good idea to lump a group together like they're all the same. yes, awful horrible alpha males manage to steal power and oppress others. It's up to all of us to stand up to them so everyone can thrive.

by Anonymousreply 18Last Thursday at 3:05 PM

[quote] Uh, what about all the gay pervs that keep getting caught, OP. Ooops.

A coincidence that they find a small number of homosexual scandals in the midst of a large number of heterosexual ones. Heterosexual men don't exactly set good examples for everyone else.

by Anonymousreply 19Last Thursday at 3:08 PM

Don't blame homosexuality when gay people are on the receiving end of other gay people's mistreatment. That's like blaming forks because you're fat.

by Anonymousreply 20Last Thursday at 3:09 PM

The fact that both homosexual and heterosexual men are being outed as predators indicates a problem with masculinity or men, not heterosexuality.

Some of you bitches are assuming that gay men aren't masculine, and shame on you.

by Anonymousreply 21Last Thursday at 4:35 PM
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