New Mexico vs Arizona

Go blue, go NM.

Arizona gets very hot in the summer and New Mexico gets very cold in the winter (so i heard) no perfect California Mediterranean climate in either of these places

Nuevo México!

I live in Arizona most of the year but my family has a ranch near Taos in Northern New Mexico where I spend a few weeks in the summer taking a break from the heat. Both states have their pros and cons. What sort of things are important to you, OP? What activities do you enjoy, what sort of work do you do? What kind of budget do you have for housing?

If you want low traffic, don't move to Las Cruces, NM. It is at the point where it is suffering serious growing pains. Most of the major streets North Main, Telshor, University etc. are only 2 lanes each way. It seems there is traffic all the time, not just at rush hour times. These major streets need to be widened, but there is no way it will be done anytime soon. Also, if you get one red light, you get them all. Whoever timed the lights there needs to be shot in the balls.

The weather sucks in Las Cruces anyway. It gets windy there a lot. It's almost as bad as El Paso. It also gets hot in the summer, don't let r2 fool you.

Both shitholes!

OP, where do you live in California? Why is it so bad?

[quote]the awful tragedy that California has become?

??????

Arizona is the boil on the butt that is now becoming the new America.

Love this thread, OP.

Which one has a Costco? I hear good things about Costco.

I live in the large red zone of Arizona (I'm a native, actually), and as is typical outside the metros, all local government here is run like a crime syndicate by GOP hacks. Likewise, state level government. It's rabid MAGA country, and it's increasingly less safe to be openly gay...or a liberal for that matter.

I've been looking at inexpensive, rural, politically left of center places in NM, especially the Grants and Socorro areas. I'll keep you advised.

Tucson is a nice blue bubble great weather nice people BUT it's a bubble in a very red state.

What about Scottsdale?

New Mexico is the Democratic Mississippi

Love Albuquerque, and Santa Fe has great art galleries. I've traveled all over the state and loved the varied scenery. Would take that over Arizona.

I'm a resident of AZ as well OP and ... it really depends on what you are looking for. NM is nice. Has better weather. Probably far cheaper.

Phoenix or Tucson is HOT during the summer. I mean 60-90 consecutive days of 100-110 hot, and what makes it worse is the lows are in the 90's so it isn't like anywhere else, in that you can open your windows at night to "cool" down - you just can't. It is November now and I still have the AC running from 3-6.

Lots of hiking and outdoor stuff in Phoenix if you are into that. It is like any major city. Has malls/theaters/some local flavor. Lots of gays here compared to NM I'm sure. Phoenix (and Tempe) is pretty liberal, but R12 is right - this is a very red state (and metro area) on the whole.

Scottsdale is nice. Overpriced but nice. Still has all the downsides I mentioned above though.

It is ridiculously cheap to live here compared to a lot of places though (especially to CA I bet). I've been here 11 years, and am leaving in the spring. They say that you will get used to the heat which is bullshit - you don't.

r17 where are you relocating?

There is no excuse for living in Arizona if you're a honky suburbanite. People are not meant to live there by the millions. It is environmentally indefensible, resource-killing and just plain stupid.

R8 R7, I live in Orange County which, while better than LA and SF, is absurdly expensive. It also has excruciating traffic and has become dangerous and gang-infested, full of homeless and drug addicts everywhere. And this isn't even the worst part of the state! Nobody in their right mind should move to California, unless you are so wealthy that you could live anywhere in the world. And even then, living among so many people who are struggling everywhere due to the cost of living and the decreasing quality of life is depressing. Who wants to live among hordes and hordes of angry, stressed , miserable people? I hate crowds and big cities anyway and f I had the money I would live in Santa Barbara or Ventura County because I like peace and quiet and beautiful landscapes but since I don't i'm looking towards New Mexico or Arizona. Quieter and just as beautiful, just no ocean and no perfect climate but oh well much much cheaper.

Minneapolis R18 (by choice). I'm not a native to AZ, and I honestly miss the seasons and the snow.

Do you work R20/OP? Or are you retired or work from home? If retired or work from home, I would suggest Anthem, maybe Sedona, Munds Park. All are on the extreme north of Phoenix and you don't get all the traffic/big city problems and due to elevation changes, the weather is actually more tolerable.

Visiting Santa Fe. Very chilled vibe. Awesome art, friendly people.

But what do you do for a living? I would love to move here but there are few economic opportunities besides art, tourism, service industries...

Fuck AS! R12 has it right, and with upcoming Rethug legislation to be passed services will only get worse. And 110 in the summer? Try 117 on a regular basis- It's an oven. Yes you can choose to live in smaller Northern AZ towns like Flagstaff but be prepared to be paid literally what you were making 20 years ago despite your C.V. AZ is for tourists not living.

If I had a lot of savings, I would move to Flagstaff. Wages are much lower than Orange Co. So you need a large next egg. It is incredibly beautiful. There are four seasons, reasonably friendly people, and enough diversity of culture, food, people, etc. that you're not encapsulated in a bubble. BUT, Arizona is hopelessly conservative and Republican as a whole. Flagstaff isn't not cheap, but certainly cheaper than (the nicer areas) of Orange Co.

You have to get used to the altitude. And there's a Costco!

All of these posters who keep saying (accurately) that AZ is hopelessly red/conservative/GOP need to keep reminding the morons who've been saying for the last 20 years (or more) that "Arizona (and Texas, and Georgia) is about to turn blue!"

I moved to Arizona from New Mexico about four years ago for work. Phoenix is just urban sprawl with no culture and unbearable temperatures 4-5 months out of the year. The low at night is often 95 degrees. There is also zero sense of community here as everyone is a transplant. Albuquerque has a very high crime rate per capita. Santa Fe is fantastic and has a high gay population, albeit older. I recommend moving to Santa Fe or Taos.

I don’t understand why Arizona continues to be such a red state. Latinos make up close to a third of the state’s population. That’s massive. Are they not reliably Democratic voters? Or are they just not reliable voters, period? Aren’t there white Democrats in Arizona, especially in the cities? What’s the obstacle to Democrats winning elections in Arizona?

Definitely New Mexico. Some of the most magical spots I've ever been in are in NM.

R28 Latinos here are not reliable voters and many are illegals. Then you have the the hard right conservatives who are militant about voting. Plus there’s a large white senior citizen population who reliably vote Republican.

Obvs Arizona, because I would get to bask in the beauté that is The Desert Blossom, Miss Jan Brewer.

Is there even a question? Arizona is a demented right-wing hell where cops can legally stop people because they “look like criminals” (i.e. are minorities). It’s disgusting. Don’t forget that America’s beloved “Sheriff Joe” is from AZ and personifies much of the state.

I would’t step foot in AZ as a tourist, much less a resident.

R29 I agree. Lived in NM for a few years and miss it every day. White Sands, Abiquiu, Valley of Fire, Bisti Badlands, Taos, Jornada del Muerto, various mountain ranges, Shiprock ... and the best of all, the Gila Wilderness. I have traveled all over the US, and nothing compares, in my mind, to the Land of Enchantment.

R12 here again. Latinos in AZ have been subject to systemic vote suppression. That has gone as far as our notorious SB-1070, which had the effect of making Latino citizens and voters leave the state with undocumented family members in order to keep families together. ALEC and white supremacists have used the state as a test bed for their most noxious ideas.

Other posters have touched on better AZ places to live for gay folks, and the list should include Bisbee, Jerome, Patagonia, Tucson, Sedona, Flagstaff and some parts of Phoenix. Bisbee, Jerome and Sedona are located in some of the reddest counties, however.

More of our gays live in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Why not Colorado OP? It's more civilized than both NM and As

that said Santa Fe is the only place to live for a gay man in all of NM and AZ

there's a NEW Mexico????

Is there still a lot of devil worshipping in NM?

No, r38.

Neither?

Let's not forget- every time AZ gets even close to getting progressively Blue, There's a constant new influx of cranky old White people retiring in the state who don't give a shit about anyone else and skew hard to the right.

Santa Fe is so beautiful it feels more like a theme park

What town in NM should I check into? Santa Fe is too spendy/touristy for me. Is Albuquerque ok or is it crime ridden like Portland OR? I like small to medium cities 2 - 3 hours at most from a big city w/ an intl airport is a plus...

Which state has more uncut cocks?

I just moved to Palm Springs from Phoenix. I lived there since 1977. I would not move to Arizona. The only habitable places are Phoenix and Tucson, and that is because if you lived anywhere else in the state, and are gay, you are in serious trouble.

Phoenix is nightmarishly hot. Tucson close behind. Tucson is very pretty, but very dull.

Californians are moving to Arizona in droves, equity refugees I assume.

I love California. I’m never leaving. It’s nice to be in a state where if you are gay, people have your back. In Arizona, it’s a wildly gay hating state overall.

Yes R45 but the world is becoming more tolerant so living in California for acceptance wouldnt be necessary for much longer. For weather and things to do yes but those things are pointless if it's too crowded or too expensive.

[quote]Arizona gets very hot in the summer and New Mexico gets very cold in the winter (so i heard) no perfect California Mediterranean climate in either of these places

Only areas in northern New Mexico get very cold in the winter and someimes there can be huge snowstorms there. The summer weather in northern New Mexico isn't too bad.

[quote]Which state has more uncut cocks?

They're both right across the border from a country with about 100% uncut vergas.

New Mexico has authentic style. Arizona is a microcosm of the shabby conservative ideologies which had made the US a cesspool. That said, Arizona is a lot better for the gays.

Which state has better food?

R43 check out Silver City, New Mexico. Not too too far from Tuscon / El Paso

Silver City is a small shithole town being overrun with gangs. It's in the mountains and has its pretty parts, but it definitely is not the place for a lone gay person to live. Depending on where you live,the city streets are in bad disrepair. I used to live there and it took them over a year to replace the road in front of an elementary school. The road was tore up from the lousy job they did within about 6 months. How old are you Op? Are you retired? If you are still working age, what kind of job are you planning on getting?

How is Taos vs Albuquerque?

Taos = tourist village Albuquerque = city

I used to have a relative in Silver City and I enjoyed visiting there. Sorry to hear it's not particularly good these days.

for 50yrs old and up in NM

Any state that votes that Skeletor looking cunt, Jan Brewer, into office is fundamentally flawed!

Fuck Arizona

R57 That sounds like my personal idea of hell.

How is the food in both places?

Interesting, R57. I'll give that a look when I'm in NM.

R59 why is it your personal idea of hell? What's wrong with a bunch of eldergays living in close quarters in the middle of a dry, hot state? At least they can save money by fucking each other and not hiring rentboys, or pathetically chase after young men and risk doing time or being ostracized a la Spacey.

I lived in Phoenix and just hated it. Some of the people I met were nice but overall the gays there are white trash. There was very, very little sense of community (outside of drinking) and no culture to speak of. I worked in Scottsdale and thought it was lame - everyone's white and many of the homes look the same. However, they had some great restaurants and better golf courses. I can't even bring myself to go back for a visit. YUCK

I like Tucson do you think I would like Albuquerque too? Is it laid back with a decent amount of things to do? what are downtown residents like?

Albeuueque is another shithole Santa Fe or bust, dear gay.

Someone seems to have crunched census data to come up with a ranking (by percentage) of same sex partnered households in New Mexico.

Las Vegas, about 65 mi. E of Sante Fe on I-25, is ranked #1. Been there, it's a pleasant small college town with an artistic vibe.

Can I just say I envy Americans for the choices you guys have in terms of places to live. Most of these threads are full full of negativity and just about everywhere is a shithole lol but it’s just a privilege you guys have to be able to sit down and decide which climate you’d like, liberal or conservative area, small city or large, type of economy, artsy city or industry city and on. I cannot imagine having that kind of choice and I hope for all the bitching you guys do that you appreciate it on some level.

As North Dakota has proposed dropping the “North” from its name to make it more appealing, perhaps New Mexico should drop the “Mexico” from its name.

"the tragedy that California has become"

Are you out of your fucking mind? California is one of the best places to live in the US.

Phoenix is like LA.......lots of traffic, people and smog. Only way way hotter in summer. People are beginning to sell and move away from Phoenix due to heat and what global warming is doing and will do to the area. NM doesnt have any hot gay men, or very very few. Its beautiful but it has 4 seasons and snow and cold in the winter depending on where in NM.

Tucson is great but doesnt have much of a lively gay community and lacks hot guys. It would be ok if you were in a happy monogomous LTR.

My take. Lived in Sante Fe for 9 years.

Arizona isn't that conservative anymore. In the last election it elected a bi-sexual, atheist, ex-Mormon to the Senate who dresses like a demure drag queen sometimes.

Bob Harper has moved to Santa Fe to film the new season of Biggest Loser.

[quote] Lived in Sante Fe for 9 years.

Nine years and you couldn't figure out how to spell it?

Bob Harper has become the fabulous queen I would be if I had money and didn’t have to work a corporate job.

NM is MUCH smaller and much more liberal

also poorer

I'm about 10 years from retirement, and am looking at the Tucson area for a retirement home. I visit most years, I have friends and interests there, I like the city and should be able to afford a decent condo there.

Why not.

R70 , what was Santa Fe like? Since you lived 9 years there.

R75 , NM does seem like it has less taxable income than AZ. So sad, I really like New Mexico.

Both will be part of California soon enough. Arizona already depends on California’s energy grid. New Mexico’s economy is tied to California’s economy more than Colorado, Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, and Oregon.

Silly OP, you can try to escape California, but by moving out you’re only helping her colonize more territory.

They're both shithole countries.

New Mexico is the Democratic Mississippi. Both states are at the bottom. The only difference was at one time Mississippi was at the top of the list. NM has always been the dregs.

So who is annexing Arizona ? San Bernardino, San Diego, or Riverside ?

The top of Arizona, especially Flagstaff and Sedona, is beautiful. Nice, more open minded, free wheeling types. The bottom near Tucson or Quartzsite, is hideous and racist AF. New Mexico is a desolate wasteland except for the mountain areas. I'd rather live in Flagstaff.

New Mexico has Martin Hienrich. A national treasure !!!

Phoenix is great! I do think you get used to the heat, but even if you don't everywhere is air conditioner, so it really doesn't matter. The restaurants are great and so is the shopping. Everything is on a square grid, there are only two diagonal streets Incan think of, so it's hard to get lost. The traffic isn't terrible. The only thing to hate is the complete lack of cool public transportation. Your have to.have a car to live here. Other than that, it is very easy to live here. And despite what other posters have said, being gay here is no more difficult than anywhere else. I see gay couples holding hands in public and it doesn't seem to make a difference.

Do people not care that they are going to be living in a physically, culturally and socially arid environment with little connection to anything. Is a big house worth sacrificing the way you live?

[quote]So who is annexing Arizona ? San Bernardino, San Diego, or Riverside ?

Sonora, MX.

AZ is red because Mexicans do NOT appreciate, going through proper channels waiting for years, being good responsible citizens, paying taxes and then having some illegals cut the line, commit crimes, make them pay higher taxes and then the Democrats give them a free ride to quick citizenship. Which you notice they will never give up their former citizenship though.

Legal immigrants DO NOT LIKE the illegals.

Now that’s humor! Shane Gills would still be on SNL if he produced r87

Very good point R87 . Not sure why that is lost in the Dem’s blind obsession with legalizing illegal immigration. Hispanic American legal immigrants - and their children - are almost as anti-illegal immigrant as the white Deplorables in Kentucky. Dems really need to inject some nuance into this debate. Kinda like Bernie with his “cancel all student debt” BS. Stop the mindless insanity. We don’t want Marianne Williamson - we want a pragmatist and thinker like Warren.

santa fe........full of wealthy people and middle to lower middle class and some poor. Not any industry in santa fe. Most of the natives work or have worked or have family members that are employed by the state of NM. Government, city, municipalities employ a hell of a lot of people. Santa fe has a high number of same sex households. But a shitload of those are lesbian. Santa fe has a small chunk of good looking middle aged gay men. Most are in relationships. It is tough to be gay, attractive and younger and find somebody similiar in santa fe. No real high paying job opportunities. You work in restaurants or at art galleries. Some people make a shit load of money in residential contruction in santa fe and a few make big bucks in residential real estate.. There is one gym in town that has a big gay clientele. A friend called it santa fe s only gay bar and there is some truth in that...........meaning it can be a hookup place and especially the locker room. Santa fe is physically beautiful. It has tough architectural zoning and the historic core of santa fe looks unlike almost any other small city in the USA. You have to go there to understand what Im saying. Its very beuatiful in fall. There is skiing in the winter and hiking in the outside of town mountains the rest of the year. A very live and let live place and also somewhat new age/granola/crystals BS going on, Whole foods does very well there as do all natural food grocery stores. . Very good restaurants, some 5 star or close. For sure at least worth a visit if you havent been. A few very nice art galleries on canyon road. Most galleries sell SW art/indian which I cant stand. 5 months a year there is some event almost every weekend that takes place often around the plaza (a square block in the downtown core). The city fathers know how to milk the tourist business and most of the year hotel rates are high. Santa Fe is a shoppers paradise. It feels pretty sohisticated for a town of 50000 or so. I miss it. The altitude got to be problematic for me at 7000 ft. A decent house in a nice area is very pricey. Thats about it....

Thanks R90 - confirming for me that Santa Fe is an unrealistic place to live. Small expensive boring. I would take Palm Springs over that. And a real hospital and medical care.

They wanted to make AZ and NM a huge state and the suggested name was Montezuma. At the time, NM was bigger in population than AZ. People in NM territory voted for it, but people in the AZ territory voted agin it.

OP, with Arizona, you get Meghan McCain. Stick with New Mexico.

OP started this thread 2 years ago. He still hasn't made up his mind?

I've been in Phoenix 10 years and it has many strikes against it. However, contrary to what someone posted above, it's actually growing substantially in population, and getting more expensive. The lower COL was pretty much the main selling feature in the past. However, there's a ton of new development going on and it's still certainly a lot cheaper than CA.

I've visited NM and it has some nice scenery, but it feels so isolated. Santa Fe was freezing in April and I thought it was a bit overrated...I prefer Flagstaff/Sedona. I like the fact that you can fly cheaply from PHX to so many other nearby destinations. It's very easy to go to CA for a weekend when you need the beach or a change of scenery. Or Vegas, the mountains up north, etc.

AZ is turning purple. If you stay in the urban areas it does not feel oppressively conservative. People mind their own business. Just steer clear of some of the suburbs like Gilbert or Mesa which are full of Mormons.

There is no sugarcoating the summers, but if you use your vacation time wisely you can escape to the coast when you've had enough.