Is Pastor Carl Lentz Justin Bieber's David Miscavige?

[quote]Justin Bieber denies Hillsong Church led him to cancel tour

Why do these stupid singers hook up with some guru who rips them off? Don't they know tube meaning of the word GRIFFTER?

Too bad the church didn't get him to cancel those hideous tattoos

Is that weird, methy looking guy supposed to be a spiritual guru?

He's a pastor. An Assemblies of God pastor. Not a guru

Miss Thing with her gigantic Sally Jesse glasses just cracks me up. He must be hung,we know justine likes them BIG.

No, not Sally Jesse. It's Mister Magoo to you.

Somewhere I saw a recent photo of shirtless Bieber doing shots at a bar with this guy. Because, y'know, everyone does shots with their pastor, right?

No, Misavige has genuine beliefs, you may not like what he says or may think it's bunk but he believes it. Lentz is just a con artists, laughing while he takes people in.

don't want...please send this one back to conversion camp

I saw a video on youtube where the person predicted Justin Bieber was going to become more spiritual and have a deep relationship with a religious male mentor. It said the relationship could also be sexual in nature. It said he wasn't gay per say, but this was a spiritual connection. Sorry, I can't find the video, but I watched it in 2016.

I would say he's Justin's Dustin Lance Black.

Justin looks ftm in the OP

He needs new people to his inner circle.

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Justin has been going to Assemblies of God churches for years, including to Hillsong Conferences in AUstralia. He has beeen very vocal about his faith in and love for Christ Jesus since he was a teenager

My pussy stinks.

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yes, daddy

'....very vocal about his love for Christ'.

Aren't they all? Talk is cheap.

I VERY briefly dated a man who went to this church. They have different services all around the country, in hotel convention/dining halls. The one that Justin was attending was the same on my former friend attended, at some hotel in Beverly Hills. I cannot quite remember which hotel it was specifically.

The "church" was mostly millenials who were struggling actors or musicians. There was a lot of partying going on, and tons of premarital sex, as well as gay and lesbian congregants.

Every Wednesday night, they had this huge service, and different pastors would get up on stage, railing against homosexuality, drunkenness, drugs, and premarital sex, and people would file out the doors and party hard and fuck for the rest of the weekend, until their Sunday night services at Mosaic, in Hollywood.

I never understood why my friend and others kept attending, since they were always smoking weed, drinking, and screwing around with multiple partners. I guess it was just another place to pick up and hook up.

Btw, for those of you who remember Pastor Davey- Hillsong is part of his group.

You are lying r21

Well, in that case, R22, let me get my ass to church in a jiffy, so that I can repent!!!

God made you an idiot, didn't He/She? If you ever attended these crap fest services, you know VERY well that I am NOT lying, asshole.

Justin Beiber himself, has been attending these services for YEARS, and he is a prime example of what I discussed in my post.

R22 is not lying.

Meant to say R22, R21 is not lying.

Pastor Davey? Well now it all makes sense...

This article talks about the church, they have stopped with the gay conversion therapy but view being gay as a sin, of course taking your money and playing up the homoerotic behavior.

The Assembly of God is a whacko cult outside the mainstream of Christianity, rather like the Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses and worse.

R5 seems to think there is something "normal" about being a pastor in this group. No. But it IS an insult to gurus to call him that.

It's a Pentecostal AG Church. Of course, they teach homosexuality, masturbation, lust, unmarried sex, and any sexual activity beyond heterosexual sex

The AG is pretty mainstream today in Christianity. It is the fastest growing Christian denomination in the nation

The Assemblies of God, a denomination rooted in rural and small town America, appears to have leaped into the 21st century with dramatic results.

At its General Council meeting last week, the denomination touted its formula for defying the seemingly irreversible decline of other religious groups: contemporary music, arts and high-tech quality communication, outreach to young people, immigrants and ethnic minorities.

The denomination reported a 1.8 percent increase in U.S. membership to 3 million adherents. Globally, the gain was 1.5 percent, to 66 million, making it the largest Pentecostal group in the world.

Hands up and eyes closed, Ashley Ingram sways and sings along with the live band playing contemporary Christian music at River Valley Church.

The largest Assemblies of God congregation in Minnesota with close to 5,000 people, River Valley recently opened its sixth Twin Cities area campus, located near the Vikings headquarters in Eden Prairie, where Ingram and her fiancé worship on Sundays.

"It's very emotional for us," said Ingram, 23, who grew up attending traditional Lutheran services but now prefers the charismatic style at River Valley. "Especially the first couple of weeks we were here, I wasn't used to it. I would cry at every service. The teachings just touch you."

River Valley sits at the epicenter of growth in evangelical Protestant groups while the larger Catholic, Lutheran and other mainline Protestant populations slide. The Assemblies of God ranked as the fastest-growing religious body in Minnesota between 2000 and 2010, according to religious census data. The denomination gained the largest number of worshippers during that decade, increasing from 56,028 followers and 212 congregations, to 75,302 and 234.

The AG has a disportionate number of the biggest and fastest growing churches and megachurches in America today. It's Hillsong worship music is used widespread in Christianity today and integral to millennial Christianity. Christian radio and music is flooded with Hillsong music. Further, Hillsong NYC has already attracted a huge congregation and has a major footprint on Christianity in the city. The most prominent leaders in global and American Protestant Christianity today are often AG or associated with the denomination. It's very mainstream.

I blame Ellen.

They like to attract "celebrities", in order to garner a larger following. Justin Beiber is just a publicity tool for these grifters.

I'm sure plenty of them believe in what they're doing, and believe that they're making a difference in the lives of others. However, certain "churches" in this sect of Christianity are rolling in the dough.

That's what these places eventually become. Huge money makers.

The only reason that they've stopped the gay conversion shit is so that people who are terrified of being outed will attend and empty out their pockets on a regular basis.

I've been around these types all of my childhood. They're mostly a bunch of grifters, followed by a buche of brainwashed, insecure people who do not have the balls to navigate their own lives free of guilt, shame, and remorse. Not that we as a society shouldn't harbor these feelings when appropriate. If I fuck over another human being, then it is appropriate for me to feel guilt, shame, and remorse. Hopefully, those feelings will lead me to repent for my behavior, ask the person to forgive me, and rectify the wrong whenever possible, while being aware to not repeat the bad behavior.

Yet, there is no reason to feel guilt, shame or remorse for being gay, or for pursuing a relationship with someone of the same sex.

These churches are filled with depressed, repressed, and closeted congregants. All the rest are heterosexuals who need someone else to tell them how to live on a weekly basis.

Finally, many go out of sheer loneliness, and I completely understand that motive. They're usually the ones who are the most egregiously conned out of hard earned cash, resources, and time.

I'm so happy that I ended using my brain and getting out of this whacked out scene as soon as I left for college. Being an atheist allows me to examine my behavior based on just wanting to be a better person. I don't want to do the right thing because I gain points with God, or because not doing so, may lead to hell. I want to do the right thing, just because it's the freakin' right thing-period, end of story.

While nearly 80 percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians, only 37 percent say they regularly go to church services.

Falling attendance is often blamed on discord over social issues like same-sex marriage, but one wildly popular megachurch from Australia is bucking that trend and making its mark in the U.S. without shying away from tough questions. It's also finding no shortage of young Christians, reports CBS News correspondent Jericka Duncan reports.

Inside Manhattan's grand ballroom, Carl Lentz is electrifying an audience, but it's not the latest blockbuster on Broadway -- it's New York City's Hillsong Church. And Lentz, a 35-year-old husband and father of three, is not your average pastor. Lentz graduated from Hillsong Bible College, and by 2010 he began preaching in New York City nightclubs. It was the start of Hillsong in the U.S.

Now, a largely young crowd of 7,000 people line up to attend.

"People often talk about the trendy aspect of our church. It's a small portion," he said. "There are a lot of people at our church right this second who do not care about fashion, they don't care about what looks cool. We just say you come as you are, and there's going to be a place for you here."

Every week in 12 countries, 75,000 faithful members fill Hillsong churches. Hillsong has 10 million followers on social media, including Justin Bieber and NBA star Kevin Durant, who was baptized by Pastor Lentz.

While the concert-like atmosphere differs from a traditional Christian church, Hillsong said its religious principles are the same.

"We're Bible believing Christians and so we don't turn back on the Bible at all," Lentz said. "We just want to see the Bible connect with people."

Despite the controversy, Lentz said they don't shy away from social issues.

"There's not an issue we would ever run from," he assured. "There's not an issue we would ever not preach about. Not one."

As far as the issue of premarital sex, he preaches to save it for marriage.

Hillsong music is so popular it often charts on Billboard secular charts

It was inevitable that white trash king Justin Bieber would adopt white trash religion sooner or later.

ARticle on how Christian Rapper Lacrae and Beiber transcend music genres and are brining Christianity to secular music

R37, the services that I attended in Beverly Hills and Hollywood, with my then friend, who I dumped because he fervently criticized other who partied, while he partied plenty himself, were set up like music gigs. They had a large screen in the background, and had lots of music acts play Christian Rap, or Rock. Then several different pastors would get up and preach.

The one at Mosaic had the same thing, except it was just one preacher, or pastor speaking to the church, delivering the sermon.

The Beverly Hills service had at least 100 people, as did the Mosaic Church service in Hollywood.

I never went back after I dumped the guy who I was dating. Every now and then, I check out is Instagram, where he professes to be a Born Again Christian, while posting pictures of himself and other church attendees at all of the WeHo and Hollywood clubs, holding alcoholic beverages, or smoking weed.

What a joke.

R40, many churches today have the same worship style and setup. It's now new or unusual. That style worship mainstream evangelical Christianity, especially among Millennials and Younger

I meant it's NOT new or unusual

The only people posting here are people I have blocked. That says something. It's only threads like these do my blocked posters post. It's like a hoard of wasps.

[quote]I blame Ellen.

For what?

Bieber has a good relationship with his father (unlike Cruise) so it seems odd that he'd get bamboozled by some fundamentalist Pentecostal scheme.

R45 I don't think he has a "traditional " father/son relationship with his dad, I think it's more like big brother/kid brother.

He grew up in the evangelical church, as do many

I think so too R46. He has zero parental figures.

Wadup wid da bigly ass pastor glasses? He's boning da Bieber butt, ain't he.

The Beverly Hills church that Bieber goes to, and where he ran over the photographer last night, is the same one that Kourtney Kardashian attends. That should tell you everything you need to know about the kind of douchey church this is. Disappointing to learn that it's anti-gay. I guess Bieber and Kourtney are okay with that.

I think the main reason for Bieber's current success is his relationship with the Hillsong church. The young church members are all buying his music.

Bieber has been an evangelical Christian since he became famous. This is not surprising news

I like Hillsong United's music group but not the church.

I hear there is a pastor in Indianapolis who is available!

That pastor sure likes himself some limelight!

[quote] I saw a video on youtube where the person predicted Justin Bieber was going to become more spiritual and have a deep relationship with a religious male mentor. It said the relationship could also be sexual in nature. It said he wasn't gay per say, but this was a spiritual connection. Sorry, I can't find the video, but I watched it in 2016.

From 2013:

Justin Bieber, 19-year-old pop music star, was apparently so moved by a sermon preached by Pastor Carl Lentz at Hillsong NYC church on Sunday that the Canadian recording artist "broke down."

"Love to my guy @carllentzNYC for the amazing sermon at church this morning. Love you man. I broke down today. Thank (you)," Bieber tweeted Sunday night, adding a smiley face.

The award-winning recording artist also uploaded a photo of himself and Pastor Lentz to his Instagram account that same evening, writing, "Love you bro" as the caption.

Bieber has long been open about his Christian faith, and previously referred to The City Church's Judah Smith as his "pastor." He has also been seen spending time with both Lentz and Smith, the latter of which has called Bieber "a spectacular young man."

[quote]No, Misavige has genuine beliefs, you may not like what he says or may think it's bunk but he believes it. Lentz is just a con artists, laughing while he takes people in.

I would say you have that reversed. Misavige is sick and twisted and even his father says so.

Not that I am a follower or admirer of Lentz, he does have some progressive views:

I love Pastor Lenz. Great guy

75,000 members worldwide doesn't seem like enough to be concerned about. They could all fit in a football stadium.

[quote] . They could all fit in a football stadium.

Yes. Quite.

75,000 for one church is huge. Moreover, they are part of a 70 million member denomination

If you count them as part of the larger Pentecostal and charismatic Christianity movement, they are over half a billion members

See?? Just as I predicted, the country is turning around now that we have a Christian in the White House!

Perhaps JB needs a new church. Christianity ain't working for him. He doesn't give a shitabout the people he harms.

What's with the 1975 eyeglasses? Did he get them out of the donation bin?

The pastor does seem relatively progressive in that he refuses to publicly condemn homosexuality and says the church welcomes everyone.

There is a new article up on TMZ about Justin seeing him as a father figure and them being inseparable. Apparently Justin is estranged from both his mother and father and has turned to this pastor due being lonely.

So Bieber is your typical American Christian who attends a service once a week and then lives his life the opposite of what the church teaches.

Joel Osteen's church in Houston draws over 50,000 retards locally, each week. Hillsong is not (yet) a major player, as far as numbers go, in the grand scheme of white trash megachurches.

[quote]This foreign born former A+ list tweener turned A list adult singer is the threesome partner for a married couple. He has a thing for older men.

r38 and boy, is it ever a white trash church where he lives. AGs and 7DAs are all over this area. I have family in both; it's scary and cultlike. They are one charismatic leader away from Waco. Seriously.

Just look at all those pictures,if you didnt know better youd say they were lovers ! oh he's fucking the Beebs FOR SURE.

It looks weird. If Justin is gay he could have any man he likes. Same goes if he is straight, any woman he likes.

I love this thread.

The downfall and crash of Beiber is going to be spectacular.

r74 I still have a modicum of empathy in my cold, cynical heart for child stars. I realize he's an asshole, but I feel like none of these kids ever stood a chance. Between the grifting, greedy parents and the short-eyed industry figures, it's a wonder any of them survive at all.

R75 They are just money makers for companies families so called friends. Tough life.

I think Bieber def has a man crush

I wonder how Justin reconciles his attraction to men with his Christian faith. Maybe he's having trouble reconciling these parts of himself and its coming out in his adoration for this pastor and others.

He looks like he is under some kind of spell or something in some of those pictures next to the pastor guy. Like some sort of dependence on him. Very creepy stuff.

What does DL Fave Uncle Rob Bieber - vegan, animal lover, Palestine supporter, acupuncturist and very gay - make of this?

Hillsong's American churches are satellites of the even bigger Australian church, all part of the Assemblies of God denomination, which is growing bigtime globally

r81 it's growing bigtime for a Christian church

I prefer the Scientology cult to this crap.

R79, I thought the same thing. And the one of his pastor grabbing him by the waist is odd. Not because it may be interpreted as physical intimacy, which it can, but because it almost appears as if though Justin was walking toward the camera, but the pastor redirected his steps in the other direction.

The whole set up looks creepy as fuck. Here's a man who is obviously in his 30s or 40s, claiming to be a bible thumping born again church pastor, who s married with a wife at home and three kids, spending inordinate amounts of time with a very confused and fucked up kid, who also happens to be worth at least 50 million.

Hmmm ...

If Justin makes it out, which I do not believe he will, he will inevitably be about 10 million lighter in pocket change by 2025, at the latest.

These people actually convinced Bieber to cancel his tour. The ONLY reason why they were highly motivated to do so, is because they don't want to lose control of their cash cow.

Bieber's got a major drug addiction problem, and I'm betting these people have convinced him that the Lord has healed him, and touring would go against the gift of freedom from drugs and alcohol.

Good for Bieber

Thank you r31 and r32 for those informative pictures.

Now, a question. Why do all of the people in those pictures look like they are trying really, really hard to take a shit?

Does raising their hands in the air help them to take said shit?

Or are they just asking god to give them permission to be the next one to take a shit?

R86, ask your questions in this thread:

R85, I would agree that it could be good for Bieber if he had more personal autonomy & agency.

I'm not into this scene, but I don't necessarily believe that ALL pastors are manipulating, controlling Svengalis. Some of them are very authentic in their quest to live a "Godly" life, and if that gets you through the day, great!

But I don't believe that there aren't questionable motives behind this "immersion" in this group, that happens to Justin every time he goes on some massive bender, and feels as if though he's losing control. I do wonder if he would be so personally "taken care of" if he were broke and not famous.

Justin will probably be convinced to start recording exclusively in the Christian music genre, and perhaps to even start a Christian record label, with several of these pastors as partners. That would probably be a great idea, being that it actually is a very profitable genre. The problem is that Justin is a fucked up kid, who has never really grown up, and taken personal responsibility for his behavior. He's a young man who is searching for meaning outside of himself, and has been led to believe that all of his problems can be solved via prayer and Jesus, and good tithings.

Churches ask for a minimum of 10% of your income annually. That's a lot of money for someone with Bieber's type of cash.

"Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool."

R9? You really believe that David Miscavige believes the tenets of Dianetics?!?!

That is NOT how the Long Con works.

Body Language of Men in Love: 15 Things to Pay Attention to

6. They keep their arm around you in public

When men haven’t decided if they want to keep you around long term they will often keep a safe distance from you in public. If he places his hand on your shoulder or waist, this man is marking his territory in the most primal sense. He’s telling the other men not to consider you as an option, even if he is not conscious of it.

14. He looks you in the eye

Gestures are a way of communicating. They say you can’t look someone in the eye when you don’t trust them. Don’t get me wrong here, everyone that looks you in the eye isn’t in love with you, but when you do look people in the eye, it allows a sort of mutual vulnerability. It’s a very strong way to connect with someone and if he’s looking into your eyes a lot, he may be searching for validation that you love him too. Pay attention to the way he looks at you. If he avoids eye contact, chances are he’s unsure about his feelings for you, but if you get the eye lock often, you can bet there are deeper feelings there. The eyes are the windows to the soul and they speak more than words. Often we pick up on feelings we can’t put into words just by looking into someone’s eyes. So look into his eyes and see what your soul hears.

R91, what grade are you in? Do your parents know that you cruise an internet site meant for adults who are 18 and over? Have you come out to them yet?

And most importantly, are you cut or uncut?

The "photographer" The Beebs injured with his Monster Truck, the dude was a 'plant.' He got 'Paid' BEFORE the 'accident.'

Neither of them were traumatized by the accident. They'd chatted with each other, the cameras, "Entertainment Tonight" as if they were talking about how their shoes laces became untied.

R93 source? I belieber it but want source

Leave that French Eskimo alone!

Gurl this shit reminds of me of the scandal of Bishop Eddie Long, except this scandal will be about a a very famous white twink, and not black ones.

Some of the comments here reflect why liberals lose elections. Totally out of touch, condescending, blasphemous, and insulting of the sacred beliefs of huge numbers of Americans.

R97 alright, I promise to never defame Scientology again!

R97, liberals aren't losing votes because they may or may not believe in God.

Everyone has their own way of coping. If you choose to believe in a sky fairy and believe that you are saved and redeemed from sin and therefore hell, that's OK by me. I respect your right to pursue your religion.

The problem is that YOU, and others like you, assuming that you are a born again, Pentecostal Christian, have a problem doing the same for others.

Your denomination, again, assuming you are a Pentecostal, preaches that all others, even Catholics, etc., are going to hell if they do not believe the specific tenants of your denomination. I know this specifically because I grew up in your faith, and your specific denomination.

Extreme religious dogma has the ability to screw people up for life, especially people who suffer from substance abuse, and come from dysfunctional backgrounds.

I find it interesting that while I was in the church, I couldn't stay sober, but as soon as I made a decision to leave the church, and pursue non-religious therapy and rehabilitation, surprise... I stayed sober!

An intelligent person who questions as part of their nature, can never me happy in a set up like church. It's too black and white and is based on stories written by men, without any proof that they were inspired by a divine being. None, zero.

Pentecostals are as bad as Fundamental Islamists, minus Jihad and suicide bombers. And please don't tell me that I'm full of it, because Pentecostals are all waiting for the day of the Rapture, where they will all be taken into the Heavens with Christ, even rising from the dead, in order to trigger the Great Tribulation, which includes war, famine, pestilence, and a last chance at Heaven beheading for those who refuse the Mark of the Beast. All total BS theology, that is actually taught to children.

I can't imagine wanting for these cataclysmic scenarios enacted upon my fellow man, despite of their lifestyle, or beliefs, yet this is the kind of hatred, and destruction that Pentecostals believe in and actively pray for its reckoning.

It's THE MOST sociopathic fairytale ever told, next to the bullshit and poison aimed at Muslims by their psychotic religious leaders.

R99, you don't seem so tolerant of the large bulk of humanity that is believers in traditional religion because your assertion you are okay with believers

R100, please read your own post. It makes no sense. Once you read it, please rewrite it, paying attention to grammar and punctuation.

I should have done the same with my post, because I made many mistakes, however, it is written in a way that it can be read and understood by others. Not so with yours. Thanks in advance.

Great for him! 👍🏽

[quote] Some of the comments here reflect why liberals lose elections. Totally out of touch, condescending, blasphemous, and insulting of the sacred beliefs of huge numbers of Americans.

Yes totally out of touch with the sacred beliefs of right wing Christians, such as greed, bigotry, narcissism, and selfishness.

Liberals lose elections because they actually attempt to put into practice what Christ actually believed and practiced himself (e.g. loving your neighbor as you love yourself, treating others the way you would like to be treated, honesty, kindness to strangers, lifting up the "least of these", kindness to strangers etc. .

R103-oh dear.

Hmmm

R104 If you have anything of any actual value to add. Please feel free to spit out at any time now.

Not to your bullshit, R106. No. Maybe the block button.

R100 there's nothing traditional about Pentecostalism. It was invented in the 1960s.

Meh, the block button it is. Please block me too. No tracking.

[quote] Meh, the block button it is. Please block me too. No tracking

[quote] Not to your bullshit, [R106] No. Maybe the block button.

Just as I thought. You have nothing on any real value to add to any conversation. Perhaps eventually you will have the entire board blocked. Then you can just listen to yourself, and I guess eventually block yourself too. Fun times! I personally don't need to block anyone. It's just not that serious.

You cunts are off topic. We need to be discussing pretty Justin getting turned out by the Pastor. FOCUS BITCHES

It reminds me of Michael Jackson and kids

That is no one really knows (at R112)

he got "turned out" long before the pastor came along,R111. We know he likes the bbc !

R108, research before typing dude. Modern Pentecostalism began at Azusa Street in 1906.

He really seriously has got to be FTM - it just seems obvious.

Why obvious, R116?

r9, I think I know what you are saying, but Miscavige is out for power. Power. Power. Power. I don't believe for a moment he believes the crap he peddles out. Not for a damn minute.

Pentecostals are freaky, creepy, vicious little shitheads who claim Christ loves them and only them and everyone else will suffer an eternity of fire and pain while they get to spend forever flying around with wings and playing harps.

Disgusting hateful monsters.

OP's very homoerotic photo reminds me of the creepy photo of Juslita sitting on his daddy's lap:

Juslita started his daddy fetish early:

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....

.....

R117 I don't know - why it seems obvious to me. I don't care who hates on or spams me for this - I'm old, 52 - female, het, military combat veteran and things in life - something shifted in my ability to perceive things based on a near death experience in combat. While I don't have things all figured out - it was like a change in perception. Every time I look at JB I see a transitioned female - but I think this started very very young with hormones and grooming. I could go all conspiracy minded on you and say its as if they do these things so that we are a little off in our perceptions of reality - who knows why? I don't think we'll know for sure - sadly what I do think is going to happen is this JB person is not going to live a long life. This will not be an "old man" - when its viability as a cash cow ends, or when it is worth more dead than alive - there will be a suicide, an illness, a car crash, etc. Entertainment industry seems to have these issues when "the contract" is up - as they say. Sorry I sound like a conspiracy retard - blame it on the combat exposure. Things are not what we think they are.

Thanks, R126.

Am I the only one that thinks when ever I see images or stories about JB - the first thought that runs through my mind is - is this an Obit article? I just keep thinking he is going to die young. In any case I don't think this will end well.

Pastor Carl nick named my hole "the people's temple" but now only he is allowed entry to worship.

R126 ,years ago i read a book written by a hollywood insider who basically stated exactly what you did about the industry. When Randy Quaid went all looney tunes and said the same things,part of me believed him.

Why doesn't Justin have a supraorbital foramen?

If you want to go down a rabbit hole dig into the Jim Jones story. Back to Justin - wonder if s/he'll join the 27 club?

A deep passionate kiss... another pastor?

Matching shirts

R126, it's due to your PTSD and exposure to combat.

Whenever our brains and bodies (they come as a package deal, obviously) are subjected to great physical and/or psychological trauma, our brain attempts to survive by needing an explanation for everything. This happens because going to war, is non-sensical. Man's instinct and main goal is to survive, so when you push yourself into a dangerous situation, you are going against the biggest evolution principal of all: stay alive.

Conspiracy theories allow us to fill in blanks, and make sense of things that make no sense to us otherwise.

I am speaking from personal experience. Not a war veteran, but I too, was exposed to life threatening situations.

You can heal, and you can get better. Regular therapy with a licensed professional is a great start.

R120 & R121 Justin always had creepy daddy issues. This was on another thread:

[italic]On the news there was a bizarre clip of JB snuggling with his "pastor."

Guess he's going to fuck Justin into joining his cult. From Popbitch:[/italic]

[quote]What is Hillsong? It's a megachurch, founded in the 80s in Australia by Brian Houston. Like any religious institution worth its salt, Hillsong offers its members eternal salvation, [bold]has close links to paedophilia (Houston's father, a pastor himself, was a massive paedo) [/bold]and is great at making money. So great, in fact, that it has developed a special payment app for its churchgoers to use and has recently set itself up to take contactless payments.

[quote]Now, with its Tom Cruise style link-up with Justin Bieber, could it be aiming for a takeover of the ailing celebrity Scientology market?

[quote]On an unrelated note, Justin Bieber has a net worth of $225 million.

I find it interesting that Pastor Lentz is photographed taking alcoholic shots with Bieber. What a creep.

Justin is a massively screwed up kid. He really does need help, and it's a shame that everyone around him is after his money.

There was a young FtM youtube singer that had a thread here that looked like one of the more convincing FtM , which made me wonder about Justin.

So what' the deal with Biebs, was he molested? He seems to have daddy issues. I wouldn't have guessed he'd be so touchy feely with men.

Oh, my! The Church of Poo is on to him....or perhaps it's "xym."

More than likely ignored by his father, r139.

I don't believe Bieber is a FtM, but he definitely has Daddy issues that are being easily exploited by a group of highly skilled con artists who have convinced themselves, as well as Justin, that Jesus loves them.

It's just gross. Mark Twain was right, Religion was invented the moment the first conman met the first fool.

reply 135 Thank you for your kindness. I am thankfully in good therapy at this time. I appreciate your reply and hope that perhaps someone else that needs it will see it as well.

The world is getting so weird it is hard to tell what is what...

R142, everyone who has a theory that strays from the norm is "crazy". Im sure great scientists throughout history were told to "get help" too.

We know biebs has a dick and not one of those ridiculous FTM dicks which are just stupid

R142, glad to hear it. I hope you discuss this stuff with your therapist. Life is so much easier when you practice mindfulness, and retrain your brain to think logically and rationally.

R144, So now you're equating speculation about Justin Bieber's gender on a gossip site to actual scientific theory and method? Really????

Your post serves to further emphasize my point: conspiracy theorists would do well to seek therapy.

R140, that is some of the craziest stuff I have ever seen on YouTube. That woman is nuts. This is what these whacky Christians that get deep into fundamentalist beliefs do. They spew shit like this all day long. Everything is a "spirit" or a demon. They make up CRAZY observations in their heads, and claim that they are God given revelations. It's some of the sickest shit I've ever seen.

Am I the only one who looked at r122 s link and thought: Gay Tina couple!!

No? Weren't there posts on one of the late, great gossip threads re: Bieber having a meth problem at one point?

I get the suspicion, but we've seen Bieber's cock, high def from multiple angles, and that's a regular male dick, not a FTM dick. So can we please lay that to rest?

R139 he is extremely touchy feely with men. Besides these pics with this pastor he also hugs and kisses another hot pastor. I've also seen him jokingly grind his ass on another guys crotch. Definitely seems curious. All his relationships and flings have been with women though so not sure if he's bisexual or just a very affectionate guy.

Does Lentz practice laying on the hands? Speaking in tongues? We must pray to save Justin's ass from the purge. Ahhh man. Deeper daddy.

When I look at their pictures I see sexual content.

When I look at their pictures, I see a spoiled selfish brat starving for attention, hanging out with a man who is willing to bend on his alleged Christian values, so that he can have future access to millions of dollars.

R97's comments here reflect why she eats old people's excrement.

If Beiber is such a "Christian," why does he swear, fuck whores and strippers, smoke weed and drink lean, and fight with his neighbors (including disturbing the peace and property damage)? I'd also like to know how this little "Christian" reconciles ripping off his fans (who are mostly children) by refusing to sing live, canceling shows on a whim and generally treating them like shit? You know that little fucker's not refunding any of that money.

[quote]'....very vocal about his love for Christ'.

Him and R Kelly.

If those photos of Lentz and Beiber are not photoshopped, then minimum, Lentz is using predator / cult recruiter techniques (love-bombing, isolating victim from family/ replacing family, creating emotional dependency etc) on Beiber. I get strong abuser vibes from this Lentz creep. The 70s porn glasses remind me of that sleazy prick who ran American Apparel.

Dov Charney 'chic'

and this guy

Pictures of his "dick" in HD - do nothing to convince me this is not a FTM - because all imagery these days can be altered and manipulated and even "sensational pictures of private parts" supposedly taken from miles away with telescopic lenses can be planted in the press and the star can even come out and make negative comments about the incident and their privacy - etc. etc. and it can all be part of the BIG plan. I was deployed to a Country we supposedly were never in - watched leader of said country deny and denigrate the United States on the MSM. Soooooo - unless he is naked in front of me with working apparatus - I still aint buying this person was born male.

The good pastor better get some Valtrex.

R159, are you sure you were in the military? I'm not trying to be mean, but you really do sound mentally unfit for service.

People who are losing touch with reality have a very difficult time admitting it.

Listen, you need help. You say that you're already in therapy, but you sound as if you aren't.

There is no "big plan". Justin Bieber has not been sent by the New World Order, or the Illuminati, to confuse us in regard da to gender.

Your thinking process is really fucked up. Stop sitting in denial. Stop sitting in a mentality that everyone is out to get you. Stop attempting to rationalize things to fit your paranoid perceptions.

Get help. You are suffering from mental illness, and the worst part is that there are thousands of people online who are suffering from mental illness as well, and unfortunately co-sign your paranoia.

You can get better.

r159 I am retired after 22 years of service medically due to war injuries sustained in combat. Virtually everyone I deployed with is in the same boat as I am. None of us trust anybody and we think everything is bullshit. I can assure you I thought the world went one happy way until deployment (you know wave the flag and march proudly) not anymore. Afterwards for a period of time I was involved on a Federal Commission where we brushed close to a uncovering an inconvenient truth concerning a major incident from 9/11, I saw scary people and scary things. I am going to break it down to you as best I can, softly in a no crazy voice - people will kill over money. War efforts, Vaccine industry, and the world of Sports and Entertainment are BILLION DOLLAR industries. I really don't t think I need to apologize for my "paranoia" - I really wish I had not been awakened by personal experience - I wish it was all just "internet crazy stuff" and I was some crazy cat lady in a basement somewhere. If it helps you to envision that - maybe its best for you. As for me - I'm gonna stick with Justin being a girl - used as a cash cow - created for our entertainment, who probably has an expiration date when he's no longer useful.

R162, I'm not trying to have a pissing contest with you, but I want you to know that I really DO understand how many things work. Like I said above, I'm not a vet, but I've been exposed to stuff that I have never shared on this website, or anywhere else but therapy, for that matter.

That being said, you need help. The world is a VERY fucked up place, and there is absolutely NOTHING that you can do to change it.

Seek help. You must learn to heal and get better or you will not survive. You can be happy again, I promise.

Brilliant article titled "Sex Abuse & Gay Conversion Therapy: The Dark Past of Justin Bieber’s Megachurch Hillsong" - "Hillsong is the church of “cool Jesus” and Hollywood—but under the facade is an ultraconservative stance on gays and a pedophilia scandal involving its deceased founder."

The irony of all this. That Biebs is constantly surrounded by his Christian pastor "friends", esp. Carl Lentz of Hillsong...is responsible for getting them a major deal with a Hollywood agency...and yet the homoerotic vibes coming from him and his pastor posse is connected to this anti-gay, ultra-conservative Evangelical mega-church. You would think this would get more traction in the press...

Really, it's quite a mind blowing read... (and funny thing being that this church is the one SO popular with the Young Hollywood Evangelical crowd - led by Jason Kennedy of E! News, and is followed by Matt Lanter, Selena Gomez, and a lot of other young Christians in Hollywood).

daddy daddy if you could only see, just how good Carl's been treating me

r162--Thank you for your comment(s)--

Wishing you the best of luck going forward.

r154, you answered your own questions. By your detailed description, Bieber is a true Christian through-and-through.

We've gone through centuries thinking Christians=goodness.

Churches have to preach against homosexuality and be pro-life in order to survive.

Where will all their new congregants come from, if people practice safe, premarital sex, or same sex have relationships?

A lot of these charges urge young heterosexual couple to marry as young as 20, 21, and to have kids asap. Within 19 years the kid that came out of that marriage can vote, work, and tithe 10% of their income. The same Pastor that married their parents 19, 20 years ago, will now marry the kid to the kid's fiancé.

More straight couples + no birth control + no abortions = more congregants through generations.

what is this hillsong? I have read many sports stars give a % of their income to churches but the churches end up being crooks.

So true, r168, and never discount the importance of the "offerings"--it's the lifeblood of churches of all kinds.

A friend told me how his brother, a lifelong Catholic (and the brother's wife), summarily quit the church, after their parish priest called them in for a private conference.

The problem?

"They weren't giving enough money."

Color me surprised that a priest could dislodge himself from a choirboy long enough to convene a private talk.

This was no friendly, Father McGuire-type talk, either.

The priest was PISSED.

I saw a clip where this Pastor and his wife say pro-gay things. That they don't care about that, etc. It was posted on youtube by someone who was angry about that.

What was the point of the cock pics anyways? Also convinced she's female.

R169 Hillsong is an Evangelical Christian "mega-church" (business) rooted in Pentecostalism. It started in Australia, and has made its way into the American Evangelical culture. Very similar in style to Joel Osteen, TD Jakes, etc. It's all over Daystar and TBN. They use a lot of hipster, secular imagery, and are known for their rock music, called 'Hillsong United'...which is VERY popular among the 'hipster-Jesus' Young Christian crowd. Their style is like a big sermon mixed with a rock concert. But underneath it all is still a very old-school, fundamentalist/conservative interpretation of Christianity.

R172 Don't be fooled by that. Carl Lentz is known for being quite vague about the homosexuality issue - essentially he takes the classic "love the sinner, hate the sin" route with it, but without phrasing it that way. What he really wants (like all these pastors) is people in his church. Souls to save. So if that means he has to pander the line of "I'm not gonna 'judge' gay people, they're welcome here" etc. to get butts in the seats, that's what he'll do. He is also known for deliberately using a more secular, hipster approach to his preaching/church...but again, do your research about Hillsong, and you'll discover they are really anything but that.

There was a recent controversy about a gay couple that regularly attends Carl's NYC church, and they were removed from their "leadership positions" when it was found out they were a couple.

These pastors will all eventually come around to gay marriage. Gays are money makers, especially in Los Angeles and NYC. They know this, so little by little their anti gay stance will change.

These are some of the most money hungry organisms around. ANYTHING and ANYONE, as long as they tithe 10% (preferably 20%) of their annual income.

Interesting, R174. Seems like the "hipster" "cool" way is getting very popular.

There was a nutty video clip upthread of someone suggesting the pastor was trans. I don't think he is, but he definitely has a style which is popular with FtM

With JB, I don't know. Is he too old for the child/teen transing craze, or did some start back then? I started noticing it a lot around 2010.

Don't know if Justin is ftm, however his/her/their upper body looks kinda weird for a man, also he has a typically female brow ridge.

He also has a small head-males usually have large skulls-that's how you can determine gender.

And he is short. And the photo from behind in the water really made me wonder.

The cock pics were odd. What was the point of them? They seemed deliberate.

I really want someone to shit in my mouth.

R180 They were deliberate. He released them the day after his enemy Orlando Bloom had cock pics linked.

Interesting you say that, r178. When he went on Smap x Smap, a really popular show in Japan, the hosts (a major boy band in their own right) remarked that Justin "has a small face (kao chiichai)". That's a compliment in Japan, although one usually given to women.

That remark was not translated for Bieber, lol. I don't think he's ftm for a second, but thought I'd throw that out there.

[quote]...led by Jason Kennedy of E! News, and is followed by Matt Lanter

Wow, this just gets stranger and stranger. Kennedy and, especially, Lanter have often been discussed as closet cases, hiding behind their "devout Christianity."

Did they join Hillsong to be "cured" only to discover - like certain Scientology adherents - that there is no cure.

These days, I'd consider Hillsong perhaps more disturbing than Scientology. The Co$ was always viewed as a cult and once the public saw how nutty TC became, that pretty much buried their chances of widespread popularity.

I can see many members of small, mainstream churches (which are dying due to dwindling attendance) migrating toward megachurches with their own political agendas. Hell, it's already happening in many places.

As another poster said, this won't end well.

Is Justin doing like Angus T. Jones did when he left Two-and-a-Half Men after having a religious breakdown?

Lots of NBA players, with everyone giving 10% of their salary, Hillsong is rolling in the dough.

R187, wow, i'm surprised NBA players would do that, they are the cheapest cunts, they barely tip!

Justin could be banged by hotter dudes. Pastor Lentz seems like a rapist

[quote] Lots of NBA players, with everyone giving 10% of their salary, Hillsong is rolling in the dough.

Churches would like for all of their members to tithe (give 10%). However, in most churches probably only small percentage actually tithes regularly.

OK, but if JB is worth $225 million (not a far-out estimate at all), the tithing alone could be an astronomical amount of money for the church. If, like Tom Cruise, he might give much more than 10% than his income to the "church."

Even 10 percent of Bieber's money is a lot, I can guarantee that certain Co$ stars, one in particular, have delivered hundreds of millions to the clams.

Yuck, another cult to watch during the Trump disaster that shows no end in sight.

I get a bad feeling when I look at that guy, there's just something off about him.

[quote]If Beiber is such a "Christian," why does he swear, fuck whores and strippers, smoke weed and drink lean, and fight with his neighbors (including disturbing the peace and property damage)?

Oh, Jesus. Really? Probably because he’s 23

Creepy that the others are fully dressed in that picture...pastor has a vibe for sure.

This guy screamed gay roid queen in person.

Not a valid excuse, r193. I know plenty of 23 year olds that are mature, responsible and not complete fucking ungrateful, arrogant, hypocrite assholes.

The two NBA players in that picture probably go to Hillsong in order to find themselves some cute white chicks to marry.

He should by the pastor a new pair of 👓 glasses. Those things gotta be about thirty years old.

R192, R194 I agree.

[Italic] Everybody is gay on DataLounge .

Good "Pastor" Lentz is so-over-the-top stereotypical, that one wonders whether he's part of a standard package deal: a very young, sexually ambiguous pop star ("worth" multi-millions)--and his sleazy, highly-influential confidante/guru. Seen this picture before.

[quote]Lots of NBA players, with everyone giving 10% of their salary, Hillsong is rolling in the dough.

They love this celebrity church, which tells them what great people they are, while they still get to do drugs and sleep around without feeling shamed. It's so Hollywood. If the church started holding them accountable for their douchey behavior, they'd be gone in a heartbeat.

Join Resonate church, the best is yet to come!

"My man juice is the nectar of God, young Justin ... lap it up, son, lap it up - every magical droplet of it ... let it run down your throat and into your fired belly ... it's honey for your angry little soul"

Mmmmph ....

"A-fucking-men!"

.................

I read on a site that was talking about this church that they collect personal info esp from young people from "confessions" etc. Sounds like Sceintology.

David Miscavige wishes he had a celeb under 50 to promote his church.

Do straight men dress like this?

[quote] The two NBA players in that picture probably go to Hillsong in order to find themselves some cute white chicks to marry.

Right do to the shortage of women (white, black, blue or green) chasing after them in every other place.

These zombies are his next target. He's gonna make a christian record next and it will be a big hit.

R210 I agree with some other posters, there is something creepy about him.

[quote]There was a recent controversy about a gay couple that regularly attends Carl's NYC church, and they were removed from their "leadership positions" when it was found out they were a couple.

It was Broadway actor Josh Canfield and his now-ex Reed Kelly, who were on [italic]Survivor: Blood vs. Water[/italic] together. The church was OK with them leading worship until some fundie bloggers caught on and shamed Hillsong into making them step down.

Are either of them still in that church, R214?

^ I'm not sure.

Before they broke up (over Reed's cheating), they publicly announced their intent to remain as members. They spun it as trying to effect change from within or somesuch, but it seemed rather self-loathing.

Wow. That one on the right looks astonishingly like that porn actor/model--from more than a decade ago?

When I look at the pictures of them together, I can tell Bieber is really into this while the pastor is just a sociopath who wants Bieber's money but doesn't give a shit about Justin.

Those glasses have been trendy for the last year or so; the trend will fade quickly.

So Ellen is going to never have this f2m on her show anymore with his connection to this church?

R217, here's a better picture of the guy on the left:

r210 Wow that man - if you told me he was a Satanist - I would believe it. He really exudes the creep factor in that picture. Very cultish.

[quote]Everybody is gay on DataLounge

No, not everyone, Frau Fotze. Just the guys who like a cock down their throat or up thier ass!

He's like a Xtian Terry Richardson.

That guy is so pretentious, so into following trends. I hate guys like that. He's definitely in it for the money. and these cunts don't pay taxes, aren't churches tax-exempt?

They are. Granting "church status" to Scientology was their license to print money.

Many others followed their lead.

Out with his real daddy. Dad looks so young. Same swagger as another daddy...interesting

I know, right?

When the final decision was made to cast "Jeremy" in the role of "the father," some of us on the project were concerned that...er, um...

Meds, R228. Don't forget to take them.

Justin is Canadian white trash. The kid was conceived by two teenagers, and hit the jackpot when Usher discovered him.

I don't know whether or not Justin was exposed to sexual abuse due to being in the music industry, but I do believe that both of his parents were pretty neglectful of him due to their age when they had him. His seeking constant male approval is right in line to not having a healthy family of origin relationship with his own father.

R229 I agree, he seems to seek approval from older guys.

Remember when he was hanging with this more "urban" friends a few years ago? He had to dump them after so much bad PR. Now he's moved on to the pastor. He definitely is seeking validation from other men for some reason r229.

That picture is disgusting.

'Father figure' looks like an actual dad here.

^Apparently not Carl but another pastor named Judah Smith.

There's something so wholesome about seeing a young man teething his first pair of implants.

.....

Justin's thoughts @ R236

R233 Homophobic Evangelical pastor ("to all the Hollywood kids") Judah Smith.

Pastor Judah seems to like his jewelry.

R236 Wow, Dadfy shaves his bush...the better to show off those cum gutters.

R236 He is a pastor??

....

Well this is all pretty obvious... they fuck. They are both hot. Good for them. Meanwhile only mosquitos get close to me and only to suck the life out of me.

R241 Most of these guys he's seen with are all Evangelical Christian pastors - Carl Lentz, Judah Smith, Rich Wilkerson Jr., Chad Veach, etc. And no, NOT gay-affirming churches.

R244 Lots of "men of God" say one thing and do another.

The "pastor" picked up on JB's daddy issues and is filling the void, so to speak. Poor, stupid Bieber is dickmatized.

When he fuck me good I take his ass to Red Lobster, cause I slay

Ok I have limited church experience, but I don't think is normal for pastors (the leaders of a church) to be following around members of their congregation like that. Going to games with them, drinking, living in their homes. Walking around shirtless, giving vibes of sexual overtones. Am I wrong in this? I mean I used to see my pastors in Sunday Church and occasionally in the supermarket.

Yeah, that pic at R236 is quite questionable.

There's nothing wrong with a pastor working out or being hot. He has a very unattractive face, btw, so his body does nothing for me. I'd rather have a flabby, handsome man with a thick head of hair.

Anyhow, the pastor most definitely has suppressed homosexuality issues and/or is playing up to Bieber's suppressed homosexuality issues in order to have access to the kid's cash.

Where is this pastor's wife, and three kids? Is she in on the grift? I'd be pissed off as fuck if I was some wholesome, Christian mom who was married to some weirdo who ran around with a pop star 24/7. She's either in on it, or fucking someone who actually likes fucking women.

It's common for young or youngish evangelical pastor to hang with and socialize with congregants beyond official church activiities. Evangelicals tend to view pastors as friends who are Christian role models to emulate and befriend. At my church, I often go to dinner, movies, football games with my pastor and hie family. He's just another Christian brother

But has he ever rimmed you?

Because all signs point to Lentz having canal knowledge of the taste of Bieber butthole.

Ach. Meant to write "carnal."

I want to be a fly on the wall when Justin has the pastor and his hot NBA friends over for care group meetings! He's a loud one

[quote]Around 3 p.m., a spy said Bieber was at the spa — “next to one of the pools getting massaged by two very large, strong men,” and he was “moaning for all to hear.”

R249 I had no idea. But then I know more about so called traditional churches.

Come on, look at that feminine face at r253!

.....

This is so weird.

Get the fuck out of here with that fake news site, r256. They were also trying to claim Chester of Linkin Park was John Podesta's son who committed incest with and then murdered, just fucking stupid right wing pizza gate bullshit.

F&F to r256 for posting your alt right conspiracy agenda. Completely made up lies.

R249 Yes, I noticed the Evangelical culture is that way, especially with the more "young adult" oriented churches.

But these guys are constantly around Bieber more so than anyone else on his team or in his entourage. And with word that they want him to help start up churches...not to mention the sexuality innuendo/rumors abound from all this...and it's certainly eyebrow-raising. Not to mention that a number of these pastors are well connected to young Hollywood, and "mentor" a number of celebs (many who have sexuality rumors).

Yeah I think a lot of young celebs are connected to Hillsong. Sorta seems cultish.

Hillsong NYC is not as large as Lakewood or Northpointe Churches, but it's almost a new church. Yet, it is approaching 10,000 congregants

Hillsong is one of the most influential churches in all of current global Christianity. Even Catholics often use their popular worship music.

Again, Beiber and the "pastor" were photographed doing multiple shots together. Does this fit in with the "Christian role model" behavior of the "young evangelical pastors" ? Because......weird.

Yeah, many if not most Assemblies of God churches think drinking alcohol is a bad witness for a Christian, especially a pastor, if not a sin. Especially if done publicly

Bieber is the one that got Hillsong church to sign with one of the major talent agencies in Hollywood. Jason Kennedy from E! News may have played a hand it in, as he's also VERY, very close to the same guys. They all run in the same circles.

Lentz really needs to think about marketing a new cologne "inspired by" Biebs:

YOUNG RIPE BUTT

Justin Bieber is such a little weirdo.

Oprah and Carl Lentz

Bieber belongs to Hillsong Church in New York City. Originally based in Australia, the church brought its house of worship to N.Y.C. in 2010. Over the years, Bieber has gotten close to Pastor Carl Lentz, a church leader dubbed by many in the media as the "rock star pastor."

At any given service, the evangelical, praise music- and worship-based church welcomes a slew of celebrity congregants. Everyone from Bono to Vanessa Hudgens to Nick Jonas has attended services.

Selena Gomez, who dated Bieber on-and-off for years, has said her song "Nobody" was inspired by her relationship with her faith. The Disney alum has attended — and even led — Hillsong worship service.

And, throughout her Revival World Tour, Gomez covered Hillsong United's "Transfiguration."

I've never had a pastor touch me like this and do not believe it's common among "young evangelical pastors," unless they're fucking their young parishioners.

Another angle.

Is this what they refer to as "laying on of hands"?

Is that in fact Lentz, on the right?

I almost didn't recognize him--without Justin Bieber sitting on his face.

ITs not common, but yes, it is not rare either with young hip pastors

WE CALL them "Bro Pastors."

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R273 Looks very intimate.

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I'm kinda liking this pastor's gangsta style: how do you successfully fuck your boy on the down-low?

You do it in Macy's front window. At noon.

Miami’s Jackie Gleason Theater is packed. Not just with thousands of people, but with the din of excitement and anticipation. “Make some noise!” cries Rich Wilkerson Jr. clutching not one, but two microphones. The crowd answers his request with a swell of applause and cheers. From his perch on a balcony above the crowd, Wilkerson makes his way down to the main floor to stand before an eagerly awaiting public. He takes the stage sporting suede boots, skinny drawstring Fear Of God pants, a reverse-layered faded black T-shirt and sweater, and a thin silver chain. With help from a world tour-ready sound system, Wilkerson commands the crowd like a charismatic conductor, motivating them to both thunderous cheers and introspective silence. But it’s not a rock concert, and Wilkerson Jr. isn’t a world-renowned musician. “Who’s happy to be in church?” Wilkerson half asks, half proclaims. It’s the first night of the 2015 Vous Conference (short for “rendezvous”), a 6-year-old “half ratchet, half righteous” three-day Christian meet-up that brings in guests from around the world to the iconic South Beach stage, and Wilkerson Jr. is just getting warmed up.

Wilkerson Jr., 31, comes out of Miami’s Trinity Church, helmed by his father and lead-pastor Rich Wilkerson Sr. One of the city’s most well known places of worship, the 55-year-old Christian church is where Wilkerson Jr. got his start, initially leading the “Rendezvous”—a gathering geared towards young adults in the Trinity congregation. Since its inception in 2007, the Rendezvous has grown from hosting 60 attendees to over 1,300 visitors weekly. Currently, Wilkerson Jr. leads his own ministry with Vous Church in Miami, under the Trinity Church banner. That reach, on top of his over 171,000 Instagram followers, his book, Sandcastle Kings: Meeting Jesus in a Spiritually Bankrupt World (which features cover art designed by Kanye West and the Donda Creative Team), and his upcoming Oxygen network reality show Rich in Faith (premiering on Dec. 9 at 10 p.m.) have made Wilkerson Jr. a key figure in a group of pastors who are shaking up Christianity today.

By at least some measures, the Christian faith could use a shake-up. According to a survey conducted by the Pew Research Center in May, the percentage of American adults who call themselves Christians has sunk from 78.4 percent in 2007 to 70.6 percent in 2014. Conversely, the number of adults who are religiously unaffiliated (atheist, agnostic, or “nothing in particular”) has risen from 16.1 percent to 22.8 percent over the same period. Even as older millennials (born between 1981 to 1989) age, they’re less likely to adopt religion.

Wilkerson Jr., Judah Smith of Seattle’s The City Church, and Carl Lentz of Hillsong NYC, are appealing to a younger demographic by talking, and yes, dressing, like their flock. Judging by their famous parishioners, the appeal is working. Justin Bieber, who was originally introduced to Pastor Smith through his mother via sermons on tape, was coming off a tumultuous past couple years in his life that saw the pop star experience everything from a breakup with longtime girlfriend Selena Gomez, to two-year’s probation after egging his neighbor's house.

While Bieber didn’t originally reach for the counsel of these spiritual leaders, he credits the support of Smith and Lentz while he was finding his way back into the fold. "Through [my] hard stage, they kind of stuck around," Bieber told Complex about his time with Smith and Lentz. "They were basically loving me from a distance, not judging me...I always respect that. When I got back to figuring some stuff out, I immediately gave them a call, like, ‘Yo guys, sorry for being a dick.’ They were kind of like, ‘No bro,’ and invited me to come hang with them. My life hasn’t been the same since."

Stepping out to packed auditoriums wearing brands like Saint Laurent and Dries Van Noten, this new guard of swaggy preachers don’t just look different than the stereotypically buttoned-up men of God, they’re also reaching younger audiences in a way that their predecessors simply aren’t. The major cities where they speak—Miami, New York, and Seattle—host multiple Sunday services with packed houses full of attentive listeners. With a natural and genuine interest in popular style and culture, along with a more contemporary perspective, they’re changing how the current youth generation relates to Christianity.

Jerry Lorenzo, designer of Fear Of God, one of the most recognizable brands of the year, counts these pastors as both friends and advisors; Wilkerson Jr. officiated Lorenzo’s recent wedding, along with the wedding of their mutual friend, Kanye West. For him, their clear recognition of popular culture and fashion is a window into what they teach every Sunday.

“It’s important to be able to relate to your pastor on many levels; whether it’s style or whether it’s things happening in culture, [including] religion and your beliefs,” says Lorenzo. “Having this relatable, approachable appearance is a way to immediately tear down a lot of walls between you and the people you’re trying to reach.” Wilkerson Jr.’s sermons, which reference everything from Bob Ross paintings to Jay Z, endear him to a younger audience, as does his decidedly casual, if pricey wardrobe. “I don’t find myself wearing blazers and stuff much,” says Wilkerson Jr., “but on Sunday I just try to look sharp and try to hopefully not make it about an outfit.” Even though it’s not about an outfit for Wilkerson Jr.—a sentiment mirrored by Smith and Lentz—some question these pastor’s modern style choices. “These days it’s like, ‘You don’t look like a preacher,’” says Wilkerson Jr. “I’m like, ‘What is a preacher supposed to look like?’ I didn’t know we had a uniform, you know?”

Thirty-seven-year-old Judah Smith, sometimes referred to as “Justin Bieber’s pastor,” also understands the struggle of not looking the part. “I think sometimes we are a little misunderstood,” Smith says. “People could say, ‘Oh, it’s a huge advantage that you’re wearing stylish clothes,’ and I would say, ‘Yeah, sometimes. But sometimes it’s a challenge.’ Again, we didn’t sign up to wear fashionable clothes because we thought that would somehow give us a cool brand. That’s never crossed my mind.” As the voice behind the Seattle-area’s City Church, he’s always substance over style. “[Fashion is] just something that I enjoy. The last thing I want to do is make my fashion choices a distraction when I want to deliver the Greatest Story Ever Told.”

Wilkerson Jr. agrees. “The message is that everyone should be OK to be who they are, and to uniquely walk out to be who God called them to be,” he says. Lentz, a 37-year-old leader of the Hillsong Church community originally based out of Australia, serves the NYC area. Regularly holding Hillsong services around Manhattan and at the Wellmont Theatre in Montclair, N.J. he can also be spotted all over social media, with over 250,000 Instagram followers witnessing him hanging out with and counseling stars like Bieber and Kevin Durant. Lentz declined to be interviewed for this piece.

Lentz notes that when celebrities attend his Hillsong services, his church makes an effort to prevent impromptu paparazzi photos and protect everyone’s right to worship—famous or not. “Everybody deserves a chance to listen and grow without photos,” Lentz told Power 105.1’s “The Breakfast Club.” Whether that’s letting Bieber stay in his family’s home in New Jersey, as Lentz has, or simply sending Bible verses via text, like Smith, even one of pop’s biggest stars is just another face in the congregation—and that’s a good thing. (Lentz has welcomed several decidedly less famous followers to crash at his place, from a nightclub bouncer in need to a sequestered drug addict.)

“My passion is to help everyone,” Smith says. “And if that includes people in the limelight, then so be it. The pressure and the expectation and the scrutiny and the challenges [celebrity attendees] face are unique. They do need someone in their corner who wants nothing, and expects nothing, but who’s just there to give, and love, and protect.”

Celebrity attendees clearly bring attention to these preachers’ respective churches, but that’s not the reason any of these young spiritual leaders decided enter into their profession. “Someone recently told me, ‘Hey, I really want to reach celebrities like you have,’” says Smith. “They meant well and that's fine, but I chuckled to myself. I never thought to myself ‘I would like to pastor celebrities.’ It was never a concept to me. I just wanted to help people.”They’re still men of God, even if they don’t fit the aesthetic stereotype of one. “If anyone comes to service because of the way someone dresses...that’s a pretty shallow reason to go to church or not go to church,” says Wilkerson Jr. “We’re here to do life with people, we’ve never had a strategy of looking cool or what should we wear, we’re just who we are.”

That's the aspect of their work that resonates most with their followers, even if their cutting edge wardrobes are what initially draws them in. Lorenzo insists that focusing solely on these preachers’ personal style reduces not just their magnetism, but the work they do for others. “Style is a small piece to it,” says Lorenzo. “To make that greater than what it is would be to belittle the character and the gifts these guys have. Their gifts are beyond being able to put on a pair skinny jeans or a blazer.”

“Maybe people have misunderstood Carl, Rich, or myself, or our enjoyment of fashion,” says Smith. “We don’t need to make this about services, gatherings, or external performances. When I stand and speak, I don’t just take on a preacher voice, I’m just who I am.” When it comes to creating a tolerant and relatable environment for people to explore their faith, what’s more Christian than that?

....

R275 yes, much like the closeness shared by young, "hip" priests and nubile altar boys.

Sorry, fanfrau, but Lentz and Bieber are obviously fucking. Go back to your Tumblr if the topic disturbs you.

Well, obviously some sort of eventual cage match between Pastor Judah and Pastor Lentz is in the cards.

Only one of these charlatans will end up triumphantly lodged in young Mr. Bieber; you read it here first.

I look forward to pastor stepping down from the pulpit due to some scandal, and the in depth interview Justin gives years from now, playing the victim and saying he was taken advantage off, spilling all the teas about all the gay sex he had with the pastor!

All those churches that have "of God" in their names are so tacky and trashy.

Who didn't learn this growing up?

Australians and Canadians, I guess.

poor biebs is dickamatized

pastor lentz is so sleazy he doesn't even like need lube

Why does fucking kids seem to inimicable to many churches?

These guys are sophisticated snake oil salesmen using people's needs for answers and community to enrich themselves. Homicidal Pastor Davey hopes to join their ranks.

Beiber is already a mess, quite sad. Miscavage is an apt analogy.

These "pastors" are just filling the void--and man, is that a big space, room for lots of opportunists.

And isn't it sort of fascinating that in every one of their pictures together, Lentz manages to look like he has just fucked Bieber--or is on his way to do so?

Young Christians don't want to go to cold churches that make Christianity seem starchy and just one of many things in their life. Millennial Christians want an exuberant, expressive Christianity that demands that Christ be the most important aspect of their lives, the core identity

This is so weird and creepy.

Anybody notice how in that video when Justin puts his head on Pastor Carl's shoulder and says he "just wants to love Carl more" that Carl responds by saying "you're doing a good job". Carl looks a little uncomfortable as Justin keeps his head on his shoulder, possibly realizing how intimate the whole looked. A report on Inside edition noted that Justin looks smitten and I thought that was an apt description of how justin appears.

I wonder why Justin's relationship with his mom is so strained now. I think this is a result of his issues with his mother, who undoubtedly introduced faith to him. He is probably trying to fill the void, or have the pastor fill that void lol

Oh come on now. The pastor is just filling the Biebs with the spirit of the lord. Or something.

Some random blind item said these guys are supplying Bieber's daddy with willing young women.

R296 Reminds me of the Michael Jackson interview with Bashir...when the kid was laying his head on Michael's shoulder. And they were passing it off as if it was the most normal thing everyone in a boy-mentor position does...

R282 R283 R284 Funny thing about these reports on these 'rising star' young pastors in the Evangelical crowd is that while the media, and the men themselves, paint it as this sort of cool, cultural, hipster-Jesus style of Christianity... that what they leave out is the theological basis this crowd runs on - and it's straight up old-school fundamentalist/conservative Christianity that they claim was of "their parent's generation, but they don't want to preach on". But they do. There have been articles, and those who have left the church, that have talked about how the theological interpretations are really just conservative as old...they just don't preach it quite that way. They find a way to package it as hip and attractive to a young adult audience that really believe they're buying into some sort of new Christianity.

I remember watching a video of one of the first real exposes done on Hillsong by a woman in Australia (as that is where it started), and she basically describes it as the Christian version of Scientology...especially in the culture surrounding it, how they tried to silence her, and how cult-ish it truly is.

All these pastors, especially Judah Smith, have been on record about how the bible doesn't lie about homosexuality, and they take the word of God on this issue. But (of course), they won't exactly "preach on it" like their parents generations. Because (of course) they want everyone to "feel welcome" in coming to church, and don't want to turn anyone away (of course...and we all know why). I remember watching a video of Judah Smith and his wife feigning tears about how they feel so bad for how gay people have been treated, but that it's still ultimately a sin. It was so unbelievably condescending. And I remember reading an article about how Judah Smith was part of a pretty conservative group in Seattle working against gay rights (and other liberal issues) during one of the political cycles. Carl Lentz plays up the exact same thing on this issue.

Hillsong, and the other churches associated with this kind of Evangelical Christianity are rooted in Pentecostalism, a very conservative, fundamentalist, and dominionist sect of Christianity. No matter how "hip" these new pop-rock style of churches present themselves to be, once you do your research (or were raised in this kind of Christianity), you realize how shady it all is. Nothing more than conservative Christianity rooted in prosperity gospel. And NOT gay-affirming, whatsoever - now matter how they try to present themselves. And yet they have such a foothold on the young Hollywood crowd it would blow your mind. (A lot of those with sexuality rumors are tied to these kinds of churches).

R301, it is Christianity. The Bible hasn't and won't change, so why would you expect the theology to change? It's the same Christianity the overwhelming large majority of Protestant churches that exist now and existed for Millenia teach. Only a tiny minority of declining Western churches teach differently, and only very recently

R302 Oh I've always known these kinds of churches (and this type of Christianity) was what it was. Of course the theology, for them, is probably never going to change. My issue is the fact that these types of hipster-Jesus, young adult oriented churches (and particularly Hillsong with it's pop-rock concert style), kind of try to sell themselves as if they are "not about all that". (which is why they are gaining such a foothold in places like NYC and Los Angeles, esp. targeting young Hollywood). But the real roots of it all go right over the heads of so many attending...

This shit is nothing but a scam. That's all that evangelical Christianity is, a way for opportunist sleazebags to take advantage of weak-willed people, and suck away all of their money. But in idiot America, these pastor people are deified. It's so fucked up and bassackwards that it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. At least that Pastor is getting his fill of Justin's tight hole.

I spoke with a younger evangelical and he thought the older generation had a weird obsession with homosexuality when it was only one of many sins. The impression I get from this and from these "hip" pastors is that while they still view homosexuality technically as a sin, its a minor sin rather than a major sin. I saw an interview where Judah smith compared it to overeating. Also Lentz noted in one of his interviews that Jeses never spoke publicly about the topic so that is why he doesn't.

I went to a Pentecostal church as a child and love the mystical and spiritual side of it but not the conservative side. If they lost some of the fundamentalism it would be a better church and could focus more on the gifts of the holy spirit.

R305, I wouldn't say young evangelicals or any traditional Protestant Christians view homosexuality as a "minor sin" because anything that is considered "sin" is viewed as a serious matter that offends God and should be repented of by any Christian. Moreso, they view it as an "equal sin" to all other sins.

Fun fact: those glasses make a whopping three-quarters of his personality.

Oh, I'd say the BCC* counts for a little bit more than the (admittedly ludicrous) specs.

Lentz is so blatantly, swaggeringly, grotesquely inappropriate it quite takes the breath away. I think he may be a psychopath, a Jim Jones type.

At R285, Justin is showing his armpit to Lentz - that is a marker of sexual intimacy - offered or already acted on.

That pose at R285, and in public no less, with the fake pastor's hands hiding his groin. SMDH.

Hillsong is a cult.

Justin needs to spend one day in a good old COGIC to rid him of those demons!

R305 Yeah, I hear stuff like that all the time. For a long time, it was equating us with murders, rapists, etc. Now, I hear things like it's an affliction like alcoholism, cheating, overeating, adultery, etc. Like that somehow makes it better...like it softens the blow... And I noticed for some of these types, like this pastor Judah Smith and Carl Lentz (as I've seen them do in interviews), is that they actually feign all this sympathy for us, and they lay it on thick. But they still pander that condescending, self-righteous "love the sinner, hate the sin" line in the same moment. and then they go on about still having us to come to church, and "that the spirit of Jesus will transform us". The actual truth is that these types don't want to deal with the bad publicity of being homophobic because the brand of Christianity they are selling is to such a younger audience that believes these churches are 'different'...

Yes Pastor Lentz may be creepy and his relationship with Justin is weird, however compared to David Miscavige he seems like a decent person.

Awwww... Li'l Justin got some big boy glasses just like Daddy Lentz wears.

Sorry, I just can't take the "Sherman and Mr. Peabody" eyewear seriously.

Thanks to all who are sharing their experiences with these churches. It is very interesting to read.

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He says some Christians he grew up seeing were weird...does he know what he looks like right now? I think he should make a gospel album, or he should've created one instead of taking up with the pastor.

I've been thinking for years that the genre is overdue for a big crossover hit from a pop or R&B artist. I know thats not on his mind now, but if his people were smart they would've found a way to market this, instead of allowing him to look needy and lost.

There are rumors of threesomes with the wife, where are their 3 kids when both are so focused on Beibs?

Understand the initial appeal of "come as you are and you'll automatically be loved and find like-minded searching for a better life type" friends. But's it's just a facade. It's an appealing band aid but not dealing with one's deep down uncertainty.

R314 I agree it is still homophobic, but a more moderate form. Hopefully it's a step toward increased tolerance in the future.

What in the world?

Hillsong sounds like a cult.

Lentz had been traveling with Justin for quite a while before his wife joined them. Interesting timing. I notice Lentz and Justin haven't been seen together since these reports surfaced. Hopefully their friendship remains intact.

r326 Hopefully it breaks apart for Justins sake, he's being used to help recruit for this cult.

R324 Très très intime !

More intimate (and inappropriate) touching and a little peek at the blessed ass Justin's been rimming.

r274 where's Scooter Braun in all this?

If he doesn't have another cash cow lined up, I imagine he won't be too thrilled with this.

Scooter still has Ariana Grand, right?

I think Justin has and always WILL have a "damn, daddy" fixation.

r330 I thought she changed management, but I don't really follow her.

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Justin's thoughts the pic @335:

Bieber needs help.

[quote]Justin's thoughts the pic @335:

And Justin's OTHER thought.

After 2 gay attendees came out to their pastor they were no longer allowed to direct traffic in the parking lot nor serve coffee and welcome fellow worshipers. Were they considered to be just too visible?

I've been to Evangelical friends church social activities with their pastor. Religious leaders often played a father type role, realizing so many attendees of all ages didn't have solid, positive adult role models in their lives and missed that family connection. However there was always a clear line drawn and a professional attitude and distance maintained. It's almost comparable to visiting your fav medical doctor. Sure good docs want you to return, and so listen carefully to your physical complaints. They may shake your hand when you leave too. That's it.

If you showed any of those pics to any Christian they would be beyond shocked and deeply offended.

Fuck these evangelical Christians, and their weird, creepy "pastors". Nothing redeeming at all. They're just opportunistic grifters, preying on the weak-minded and idiotic. If you fall for this shit, I'm almost inclined to say you deserve it. Like Bieber.

[quote]There are rumors of threesomes with the wife, where are their 3 kids when both are so focused on Beibs?

Can you direct us to those rumors? Thanks ahead of time.

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.................

Laura Lentz also does the hipster clothes thing

.......

Bieber does not seem sober here. Does he brush his teeth during interviews often?

.........

.........

This service is creepy as fuck in person.

This is nothing new for Justin. Sad.

This gpastor guy is the text definition of DOUCHE.

Can't help but think of homicidal Pastor Davey and how he aspires to be Carl Lentz. Shudder.

I don't know much about the Bible, but everyone knows this quote. How can it be squared this prosperity gospel schtick?

"The eye of a needle" is scripture quoting Jesus recorded in the synoptic gospels: I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Isn't this the update of the old tyme revival tours and their snake oil salesmen? God help Justin, all these dudes want is his $$$ and PR. Must be some worldly rush to control the careers of pop singers and basketball players.

And no one is going to tell him that.

Given that he seems joined at the hip with Hillsong acolytes, could anyone from outside the cult get close enough to tell him anything? That the pedo history of Hillsong just gets glossed over is horrifying. The comparison to Scientology and the targeting of celebs and sports figures is apt.

r337 no, he needed help when he was a minor. None of the gold digging cunts around him gave a shit as long as the money was coming in. Now that he's a legal adult, it's much harder to get him into a proper counseling and rehab program. As much as this douchebag "pastor" is justifiably shit on, it's his parents and manager who deserve the most vitriol.

Poor Mr Bieber is so vulnerable. I hope he finds someone that actually cares about him.

I don't know Pastor Carl, but from what people That know him say, he is a sincere great man of God. He is imperfect, but so are all Christians. May God bless him and the ministry

r350 Wow, if anyone wonders where the FTM lesbian rumors came from just look at that pic.

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His "mentor," Usher, would not be outdone by Puffy.

Did Usher also give Beiber the herp? I bet that whole congregation is infested.

Its disgusting how the rich gift each other expensive gifts as if they could not afford to buy it themselves.

Especially when predatory men openly gift vulnerable minors, right, R362?

The founder of Hillsong is a convicted pedo, the church knew and protected him. Hardly a Christian stance toward children.

Hope Beebs fares better than the poor Carter kid, gifted with a Bentley by Bruce Willis as a teen.

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Pastor Laura, no, seriously! The Lentz' s sell it hard.

It is all a con is my guess.

If Bieber is insecure, needy, and stupid enough to fall for this major grift, so be it.

The pastor is creepy as fuck with strange boundary issues. If I were his wife, I'd question him on the physical interactions he appears to have with a young man who is clearly confusing this relationship for something other than what it is. That is on the pastor, not on Justin.

If Lentz is truly an honorable man of God, who is on the up and up, then he already knows how bad this looks for a church that denounces homosexuality, and for a pastor who is allegedly a mere spiritual adviser.

I imagine Scooter Braun is livid over Justin's relationship with this church. Scooter controlled everything he did for years, and now this new guy is trying to steal him away. Scooter lost millions when Justin cancelled the last leg of his tour. I wouldn't be surprised if Justin doesn't drop Scooter in the near future and Lentz becomes his new manager. It appears to be going in that direction.

Ariana Grande is still with Scooter.

This is pathetic. How can people fall for these cults?

Preaching the prosperity gospel is big business, worldwide. Hillsong was clever to create a club type experience and target rich young celebs and sports figures.

Not everyone falls for it, a quick Google turned up the link.

These kind of hipster-Jesus, Evangelical mega churches call themselves "welcoming, but not affirming" on the sexuality issue.

The fact that they are so deeply involved with young Hollywood is so ironic, but not unexpected...

R368 Scooter seems to be Okay, with the relationship.

I've got another pair of Daddy glasses and they're pink! Yea!

Carl & Laura are both hard looking.

Justin is getting kind of hard looking as well. Those w.t. genes taking over gurl! He spends too much time in the sun too, his skin is going to be horrible

I think I read that Justin is adopted, that adds another layer of emotional issues.

Bieber is pathetic. He needs help but he doesn't seem to have any decent people in his life.

r378 that would explain the possible incestuous relationship with his "father".

All of these people are absolutely disgusting, fuck them and their fake "Christianity". Can't roll my eyes hard enough at this phony man-in-the-sky grifter Jesus bullshit. And really, what's with the ridiculous glasses?

The glasses is supposed to mean is he is "cool," like the hair and the leather jacket.

[quote]the glasses is supposed to mean is he is "cool," like the hair and the leather jacket.

Reminds me of another self-proclaimed "man of God" who had a penchant for cool glasses and flashy jackets.

R378 now that's just stupid. How could he be adopted by teenagers?

[quote] I think I read that Justin is adopted, that adds another layer of emotional issues.

Bieber was born on March 1, 1994, in London, Ontario, at St Joseph's Hospital,[11] and was raised in Stratford, Ontario.[12] He is the only child of Jeremy Jack Bieber and Patricia "Pattie" Mallette. Bieber's parents were never married.[13] Pattie raised her son with the help of her mother, Diane, and stepfather, Bruce.[14] His mother is of French-Canadian descent; his paternal great-grandfather was of German ancestry, and his other roots are English, Scottish and Irish.[15][16][17] He has also claimed that he has some undetermined Aboriginal Canadian ancestry.[18]

His mom was 19.

He surely needs help and other people around him. The problem is he is too deep in this and therefore doesn't understand he needs to get away from these people who will only use him and his money for their own good.

Bieber is a disgusting fucking human being, treats people like trash so I glad his dumbass is being used and abused by griffters.

^ I second this. I hope he's left broke and in debt after this.

Thanks, R385.

He has a bunch of sibs, off to look that story up.

These people are mostly a bunch of hardcore narcissists, claiming to be "saved". It's all a bunch of BS that lonely people fall for. People with addiction issues are magnets to these grifters. They all believe their own hype. They go through life believing that they are doing God's will, and will go to heaven.

I do actually believe that Carl Lentz is either bi or gay. Many young men join these groups in order to become "normal and straight". They are repeatedly told that homosexuality is a sin and they are blatantly lied to and told that Jesus can and has "delivered" them from homosexuality by dying on the cross.

As soon as these guys get in there, they are bombarded with heterosexual lifestyle affirmations. They are introduced to young women who are all looking for good, Christian husbands, and before they know it, they're straight, married, and have a kid on the way.

In order to deny themselves any same sex attraction that will inevitably continue to pop up along the way, they get more and more deeply involved in the ministry. They go to bible colleges often started by the same church they attend, and before they know it, they are pastors. There's a whole formula behind it. It's basically "sales", but much more powerful.

They tell everyone what a piece of shit they are. That everyone was born this way, but Christ redeems all and makes them whole.

I was very fortunate to get away from the Pentecostal church when I did. Admittedly, it left some psychological scars that took a while to reverse engineer, so to speak, and I had to retrain my mind, and become a rational, logical thinker. I basically had to learn how to unprogram myself. Everything that these churches teach are based on teaching the congregants self loathing, self hatred, self denial, fear of every thing and everyone, and the ONLY answer is Jesus, 24/7/365. It is all broken down, rebuilt, and packaged in a way that is EXTREMELY seductive, and if a person is pretty vulnerable, they can be in it for life.

If you don't mind being told how to think and how to live, then Hillsong is the place for you.

Btw, I was born and raised in this "movement". It was not something I chose to follow as an adult. I left the church as soon as I moved out of my childhood home.

I too went to Pentecostal Church as a child. I loved its spiritual focus on the holy spirit. I left in my early teens and then tried returning as an adult but was turned off by the social conservative and fundamentalist message. Today I don't attend church but believe strongly in the power of prayer and the holy spirit. I hope the church evolves over time but for now I'm happy doing my own thing.

i hope carl doesn't get aids when he date rapes the biebs

[quote]This is pathetic. How can people fall for these cults?

You vastly overrate the intelligence of people, how do people still make that mistake when Trump is President lol.

As the saying goes there is a sucker born every minute, tons of people love giving money to these prosperity doctrine scams.

It is sad. I think all religion is silly, but I respect that there are many pastors out there who actually care and believe in what they are doing. They are trying to help their congregations.

Then there are these snake oil salesmen who just see it as an easy way to get rich.

Biblical Christianity and Jesus Himself teaches that we are all lost and separated from God unless we repent and believe in Jesus as the only Savior. So yes, Christianity teaches that we all "totally depraved" and deserve eternal punishment for our sins; it also teaches us God loves us, and through Christ, we can be forgiven and cleansed of all sins. Seems like Hillsong is teaching standard, historic Christianity.

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Look at this pretentious crap. Wonder where it gets run up? I'm guessing a vietnamese sweatshop.

How is this different to Scientology? No mention of God or Christ at all.

[quote]ShineWomen is a solutions focused personal development program that empowers women regardless of their cultural, educational or socio-economic background. The goal is to help individuals on their journey of discovering their personal value, resilience and potential. Since its conception in 1997, Shine has been used globally by thousands of organizations in various settings including schools, refuges, ethnic & indigenous communities, religious groups, rural communities, correctional centres and girls homes.

These so-called Christians are horrible, depraved people. Fleecing idiots based on a crazy science fiction myth. Assholes.

The mainstream, traditional religions, and the new-age, snake-oil religions all know how to manipulate their followers using an array of carrots and sticks to exploit ignorance and guilt. The chips are stacked against the few of us who know better.

r400 some of those 'few' collude with the religious leaders for their own ends--like Harvey Milk and Jim Jones.

The amoral scum are just as bad, if not worse than the church grifters.

Harvey Milk???

R401, I don't know who you're referring to as "amoral scum." Just don't make the mistake that non-religious people are amoral.

There are pictures online of Jim Jones with Jerry Brown. He was in with the politicians and activists.

The whole thing about "You're a sinner, but Jesus died for you because he loves you", is very sadomasochistic to me.

I don't want, nor do I expect, nor have I ever asked anyone to die for me in order to redeem me from human nature, nor to prove their love for me.

It's actually a very unhealthy and sick premise for a religion, when you actually stop and think about it.

People are terrified of taking responsibility for their own lives and their actions. No, the devil is not responsible for you cheating on your spouse, you are. No, the devil is not responsible for you beating your wife, you are. No, the devil is not responsible for you being gay. There is nothing wrong with same sex attraction. No one needs to forgive you, or heal you. Accept who you are, and go out there and laugh, love, and learn. Stop punishing yourself for having normal, sexual desires.

I don't know how gay men and women survive these Christian groups. If I believed all of this stuff and was denying myself my true sexuality, I would have killed myself.

[quote]There are pictures online of Jim Jones with Jerry Brown. He was in with the politicians and activists

Jim Jones was very in with the Panthers. The Cleavers, Newton and Davis attended his fundraising dinners and Davis urged the captive 'congregation' to stay put in Jonestown to 'fight the imperialist white fascists'. Newton's cousin was one of the only people to make it out - he ran through the jungle when the poisoning started. All documented in Raven, and we shall see if HBO keep those facts in their TV adaptation. As Davis is now a 'intersectional' left-wing icon, I doubt it.

r396 he looks cute in that scoop neck shirt, yassss Justin, you better low key cross-dress for that pastor!

Perhaps the most amazing historical detail of the murders of Harvey Milk and George Moscone is that their dramatic assassinations weren’t the biggest story to hit San Francisco in November of 1978. Bowdlerized from the Hollywood treatment is the role Harvey Milk played in the news story that eclipsed his own murder. Nine days prior to Milk’s death, more than 900 followers of Jim Jones—many of them campaign workers for Milk—perished in the most ghastly set of murder-suicides in modern history. Before the congregants of the Peoples Temple drank Jim Jones’s deadly Kool-Aid, Harvey Milk and much of San Francisco’s ruling class had already figuratively imbibed. Milk occasionally spoke at Jones’s San Francisco–based headquarters, promoted Jones through his newspaper columns, and defended the Peoples Temple from its growing legion of critics. Jones provided conscripted “volunteers” for Milk’s campaigns to distribute leaflets by the tens of thousands. Milk returned the favor by abusing his position of public trust on behalf of Jones’s criminal endeavors. “Rev. Jones is widely known in the minority communities here and elsewhere as a man of the highest character, who has undertaken constructive remedies for social problems which have been amazing in their scope and effectiveness,” Supervisor Milk wrote President Jimmy Carter seven months before the Jonestown carnage. The purpose of Milk’s letter was to aid and abet his powerful supporter’s abduction of a six-year-old boy. Milk’s missive to the president prophetically continued: “Not only is the life of a child at stake, who currently has loving and protective parents in the Rev. and Mrs. Jones, but our official relations with Guyana could stand to be jeopardized, to the potentially great embarrassment of our State Department.” John Stoen, the boy whose actual parents Milk libeled to the president as purveyors of “bold-faced lies” and blackmail attempts, perished at Jonestown. This, the only remarkable episode in Milk’s brief tenure on the San Francisco board of supervisors, is swept under the rug by his hagiographers. Sean Penn’s Harvey Milk is as real as Toby Maguire’s Spider-Man. Who has time for the sordid details of purportedly staged hate crimes and boosterism of America’s most prolific mass murderer when there is a gay Martin Luther King to be mythologized? Even the fervent atheist Milk understood the need for patron saints. When confronted by a jaded supporter over his fabricated tale that the Navy had booted him out because of his sex life, Milk responded: “Symbols. Symbols. Symbols.” He understood his movement better than his movement did. When the facts didn’t fit the script, both Milk and his present-day admirers adjusted the facts. As the elected sponsors of Harvey Milk Day realize, Californians are more likely to remember the celluloid hero they saw depicted by Sean Penn earlier this year than the obscure city official who walked largely unnoticed in their midst three decades ago.

I have a friend from a similar situation. His parents fucked right after graduation, not that it was either one' s first time, or even their first time together. Trash alcoholic smoker druggie girl from London Ontario wants out of her parents' place in social housing, finds guy, they make Justin and she gets a whole bunch of freebies as a single mom, and stoned Daddy who still plays video games thinks a hole is a hole.

Why is Passa Carl so touchy?

[quote]No ?'s bout "hair cuts" or "where do I buy scoop neck t-shirts" or "can I order Hillsong Hustler gear" will be tolerated/I will block you!!

I had to zap that post at r408.

Too much of a chore to read. DL is not kindle.

All imported DL posts, all imported online forum posts, should be presented in a way that is more comfortable to the reader.

“Rev. Jones is widely known in the minority communities here and elsewhere as a man of the highest character, who has undertaken constructive remedies for social problems which have been amazing in their scope and effectiveness,” Supervisor Milk wrote President Jimmy Carter seven months before the Jonestown carnage. The purpose of Milk’s letter was to aid and abet his powerful supporter’s abduction of a six-year-old boy. Milk’s missive to the president prophetically continued: “Not only is the life of a child at stake, who currently has loving and protective parents in the Rev. and Mrs. Jones, but our official relations with Guyana could stand to be jeopardized, to the potentially great embarrassment of our State Department.”

I'm going to have to delete this thread....can't deal with that goofy photo in op's link.

Lol, r413!

This will not end well.

Does he remind anyone else of the cult leader in Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt? I think it's the glasses.

[quote]Before the congregants of the Peoples Temple drank Jim Jones’s deadly Kool-Aid,

It was Gator Aid. A fact that escaped the army of fact-checkers at 'the City Journal'.

Pentecostal/Charismatic is one hell of a religion sect. Very cultish in structure and culture. Really in culture. For many, their entire social circles/lives, and communities are entirely rooted in the church (and the surrounding culture). Noticed that it's less about specific beliefs, and more about what they call "Jesus Culture". Everything is filtered through it.

Even with the celebs - most of the young Hollywood Christian crowd pretty much surrounds themselves with each other. You can see it all over their social media.

Celebs like Matt Lanter seemed to have totally abandoned their previous social circles (in his case, mostly gay/bi friends) once he got with the VERY Christian gf (then wife), and suddenly his entire circle is Jason Kennedy and the young Hollywood Christian crowd that attends the infamous Wednesday Night bible study at the Beverly Hills Hotel (which is also the one Bieber attends).

R280 Lentz in that photo looks just like Christian Slater's gay-porn mogul character in James Franco's biopic KING COBRA.

[quote] Everyone from Bono to Vanessa Hudgens to Nick Jonas has attended services.

Honey, don't I know it. Even as a rugrat Nicholas was a twitchy little homophobe. What's a girl to do.

r418 Wrong-see link.

As the sentence reads, one could argue it was used as a generic term.

Regardless, it hardly matters in the overall article.

he's made bieber his sex slave :(

Just exactly who gave AIDS to who. That will be American Crime Season 10 with Pastor Carl Lentz and Justin Bieber taking each other to court

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.....

I don't get Bieber's appeal at all. All of these ministers he hangs with are weird.

Justin and Rich Wilkerson Jr a pastor from Miami

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Showin' some HEAVAGE!

Peace out.

Bieber with Wilkerson

R429 That's intimate and OPEN.

That video in the pool is conveniently blurry and bad quality. Prob a fake.

Maybe they just pass him around?

Laura and Carl look like carnies some days, like they are headed to a swingers party others.

Hippy-dippy days.

My LAWD JEEBUS! Look at those cum gutters!

This hot preacher meat has Momma's MUSSY aflame, and swingin' wide open like the pearly gates!

Merciful heaven on earth....

A couple of months back ... the last picture tho

I certainly can't endorse Pastor Lentz's style or all his actions, but I just listened to a sermon by him for the first time. His preaching is biblically sound, historic Christianity. Pretty good and powerful message for Christians.

But I'm not a Christian...

Justin looks at this guy the way I'd look at John Cena or Hugh Jackman if I could.

Justin's GOT the money; he should just settle on a fee with this guy: you provide me with the emotional support I desperately crave and I'll cut you an amount for this much.

Pay in installments and if the emotional support stops, then so does the money buddy.

R430 in the before pic he looks like a Juggalo. He'd probably be more interesting, authentic and wholesome as a person (and LESS soul-suckingly creepy) if he were Down With The Clown, tbh.

That being said, I admire his commitment to the gimmick and his savvy, knowing that a hot bod will sell.

R442 But is he getting emotional support?

I wonder if it's sexual on Bieber's part.

More likely, just a very confused, messed-up young person looking for some parenting. Which is kind of sad.

This photo is so staged.

Justin is being supported by the pastor's stiff dick up his smooth hole.

R447 thsts my thought process

I mean, c'mon... the whole big-business pseudo-hipster religion, the nature of Christianity regarding sexuality/gender, Biebs shitty upbringing, the nature of show business itself, the social culture stemming from this kind of religiosity.... who knows what kind of secrets are in Bieb's closet, let alone these youth pastors. I mean, for anyone who comes from that kind of background, we all know what types lurk behind this kind of stuff....

....

R449, many of us from that background do not agree with you, so your "anyone" is erroneous.

Several people including tabloids openly insunuate that Cruise and Miscavige were/are messing around so to answer OP's question yes Lentz seems to be to Bieber what Miscavige is to Cruise. However, the whole Bieber born again christian thing is more complex. First, Justin is around several "pastors" which included Carl Lentz, Rich Wilkerson, Chad Veach and creepy Judah Smith. Secondly, Justin is a molly hoe he fucks/sucks with everyone that can give him some sort of attention or affection, he has no selfrespect and really low standards. He doesn't care about his fans or music career because he wants to turn actor. Allegedly, last year, Dicaprio and two uncut trannies bang him as he was expecting Leo to promote his acting career ... anyone heard any film coming with Bieber's name attached?!! In his circle of users, there is always someone trying to save him (ex girlfriend Selena, ex fuck buddy Maejor) but none manage to take him to rehab, currently it's Patrick Schwarzenegger they fuck, go hiking and drink wine ... don't save him Patrick he doesn't want to be save!

R452 That's lots of info

That's a lot of lies

If religious figures must be hipster, give me Jay Bakker any day.

Bieber is a gross mess. I don't understand what his fans see in him.

Kid don't need religion, he needs Experience.

A new daddy?!

How much did Leto spend on looking that trashy?

R451 Bullshit. Plenty of people have experienced and dealt with the hypocrisy and oppression from the religion. Many have shared their experiences above (and in numerous threads here at DL). Just because you don't want to accept it, doesn't make it untrue.

R452 what you wrote sounds mostly plausible except for the DiCaprio part. Where did you hear all this if you don't mind me asking? What's the story with major and now Patrick? Do you have any more details? I thought Patrick had a girlfriend but I could see him and Justin together.

R452 Love that you called Judah Smith "creepy". That guy truly is, even more so than Carl Lentz. I always find it very suspicious when they target the 'young Hollywood' set.

r457 ah yes, Joe Rogan--RDJ lite.

R444, I agree he may not be, but if he thinks he is, what's the difference?

Is there a difference -- look at people who have less money who are in denial within their own relationships.

Justin got some big new tattoos to show how happy he is with Daddy Carl.

[quote]“For a long time, it was just awful, but it’s not anymore. Justin is seeing the beauty around him,” the source said. “He sees that his life is beautiful, that he’s beautiful. He’s young and rich, but that’s not enough. He’s now becoming emotionally and spiritually grounded, and the difference is written all over his face. It’s beautiful to watch.”

Daddy Carl was on The View:

He's full of shit.

I sure hope Pastor Lentz wears a condom when he date rapes Justin because without one I am certain he'll get aids

He now has that other douche Chris Pratt, too.

They're all screwballs.

[quote] He now has that other douche Chris Pratt, too.

Currently playing on Pastor Carl's ipod:

I find it so ironic that all these supposedly more progressive young Hollywood types in the industry go to this place in droves, hang all over people like Carl Lentz and Judah Smith... and yet like to act like they're so liberal on gay issues -

"Brian Houston, founder of the Australia-based global evangelical megachurch Hillsong has released a letter urging all Christians to vote, saying, “I believe God’s Word is clear that marriage is between a man and a woman,” and adding, “The writings of the apostle Paul in scripture on the subject of homosexuality are also clear, as I have mentioned in previous public statements.”

Houston’s letter criticizes “some on both sides of the argument” who he says “have failed to understand and respect the views of others.” He adds, “Hillsong Church already functions well and without impediment in other parts of the world where same sex marriage is legal, and as long as we are not forced through legislation to compromise our biblical convictions, we can quite comfortably continue to function whatever the outcome of this plebiscite.”"

The blind items are juicy as hell when it comes to this Pastor Carl Lentz and all the young celebs he's lured into it his "church". Often referred to as a 'cult' according to industry insiders and other Christians...

Daddy Carl fixes everything.

THEY ARE SO FUCKING......

Maybe Justin Bieber and Chris Pratt can have a kiss fight to see which one will be able to eat the fruit on his Carl's plate when they dine at Ihop

Justin Bieber is one of the most intensely average looking men I've ever seen

Jesus, Pastor Carl is the personification of phony, money-hungry creep. How are all of these famous people sucked into this obviously sleazy scam? I can't quite fathom it.

He and Selena Gomez were scrounging around for drugs in the hood and got filmed by an MS13 gang member last month. That is how Carl has wormed his way into their lives, they are druggies and think that Hillsong can save them.

Papa don't preach, I'd rather you be going deep...

Can someone please tell Justin's substitute father/lover those goldfish glasses look really dorky.

R479 that’s sad. I don’t think he is able to get free from the circle of people he has in his life.

[quote]they are druggies and think that Hillsong can save them.

Well of course. Why else does a young man in Bieber’s position suddenly turn religious?

That's amazing that these very recognizable stars will go to seedy areas of town to buy drugs. I remember being surprised that Nick Stahl was found on Skid Row trying to score and Beiber is 1000x more famous than Stahl.

That greasy gross pastor and his greasy gross wife are greasy and gross. Lord help Beebs if he ever tries to get away from this guy. Something tells me Pastor Phony won't let his cash cow go so easily.

If you want to see a typical evening with Justin and Daddy Carl, this is how it goes.

(NSFW and a bit disturbing as the actors are playing father/son.)

Lentz is a fraud, a crook and a REAL MURKY character, he’ll be exposed soon enough...

R485 The "dad" is kind of hot in a nerdy way.

Any word on this relationship?

Did Daddy Carl encourage Justin to go platinum?

They probably do meth together...

I'm clean-shaven. And here are my biceps.

Pastor Carl is still keeping it tight.