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Liberals can win again if they stop being so annoying

A Must Read article by a Dem for Dems.

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by Anonymousreply 347September 2, 2017 7:45 PM

Not so much annoying as fed up with having a dolt in the WH.

by Anonymousreply 1July 19, 2017 12:24 PM

Liberals can win again when they stop they muslim and tranny ass kissing.

by Anonymousreply 2July 19, 2017 12:24 PM

*their

by Anonymousreply 3July 19, 2017 12:24 PM

R2 is a typical closeted queen.

by Anonymousreply 4July 19, 2017 12:27 PM

I honestly believe we are overly PC and somewhat precious, but more importantly we need to have a simple message.

by Anonymousreply 5July 19, 2017 12:29 PM

You can choose to face the problems of the world and try to do something about them, or you can stick your head up your ass and pretend everything is hunky dory.

Progressives prefer the former. Deplorables, being the lazy shits that they are, would prefer to chow down on burgers and watch football, as the article states.

by Anonymousreply 6July 19, 2017 12:31 PM

Liberals, progressives whatever we're being called these days will win when we start voting strategically and in every election. The rule should be, any democrat is better than any republican. When we get our numbers back up, then we can start being selective.

by Anonymousreply 7July 19, 2017 12:32 PM

TL;DR: Voters don't distinguish between the antics of SJWs whose "liberal moralizing tends to read as college-educated people in cities arguing that everyone should behave more like them" and Democratic politicians and Dems should go out of their way to call out the excesses like culturally insensitive sushi.

They should, and Hillary's embrace of BLM hurt her with people who found that group to be overly radical. Not sure if coming out in favor of letting people dress as Mexicans for Halloween is the stuff to swing elections, but if more Dems slapped the SJWs down, it wouldn't hurt.

by Anonymousreply 8July 19, 2017 12:34 PM

R8 what?

by Anonymousreply 9July 19, 2017 12:35 PM

@r9: First paragraph: TL;DR = too long, didn't read = a summary of the author's main points

Second paragraph: my take on them

culturally insensitive sushi-- a point the author makes in the piece, refers to Oberlin students protesting the dining hall serving fusion sushi because it was "culturally insensitive." (Lens Dunham went to Oberlin. Nuff said.)

Halloween costumes-- another point from the piece. Refers to a brouhaha at Yale over what constituted a PC Halloween costume for white people which involved a video of students of color cursing out the dean and crying. White people dressing as Mexicans for Halloween and/or Cinco de Mayo or Tequila-themed frat parties also a subject of much controversy on campus.

by Anonymousreply 10July 19, 2017 12:41 PM

Jobs, economy, jobs, economy.......... fuck SJW, BLM, trans, etc. and stand up to them. Concentrate on the economy.

by Anonymousreply 11July 19, 2017 12:44 PM

R11 pretty much summed up the article.... and is spot on.

by Anonymousreply 12July 19, 2017 12:45 PM

"Its the economy, stupid"

by Anonymousreply 13July 19, 2017 12:58 PM

Do you guys understand that people are tired of feeling like an extra on the "The Crucible" and the Puritan morality is becoming slightly boring and frustrating?. It is guilt and condescending guilt at that.

The working Class should be the base of the Democrats. The fact that so many think they are above them makes me feel I am writing an essay on the Anciene she Regime in France pre 1789, rather than a Democratic Party.

You look down on Deplorables. Tell me your plan to win 2020. Let's be honest here. Tell me me your plan to win 2028. Cause if we continue down this way, that's the next time we have a real chance.

by Anonymousreply 14July 19, 2017 1:06 PM

I'd also recommend reading "Dream Hoarders" by Richard Reeves about the rapidly widening gap between the upper middle classes and everyone else, the UMC of course mostly being the moralizing coastal blue state folks this article refers to.

Reeves describes the UMC as the top 20% and if the Dems keep up with things as they are, they will be looking to alienating 80% of the electorate.

by Anonymousreply 15July 19, 2017 1:11 PM

[quote]Voters don't distinguish between the antics of SJWs ... and Democratic politicians

And that's entirely because of your pals the Republicans branding SJWs as dangerous Democrats, even when they're just stupid college kids with no power and not even Democrats at all. The media helps the Repugs happily, might I add.

You also falsely brand the party as caring only about "identity politics" which is not only untrue, but a very obvious racist dogwhistle that you're only getting away with because everyone else is overwhelmed with the Trump-Russia scandals.

by Anonymousreply 16July 19, 2017 1:11 PM

[quote]Refers to a brouhaha at Yale over what constituted a PC Halloween costume for white people which involved a video of students of color cursing out the dean and crying.

And which had nothing to do with the Democratic Party.

But you and your little troll friends (who just happen to show up seconds after you post to agree with you) keep saying it and other pointless bullshit define the Democrats.

I mean, you tone it down a little when you come to DL, but it's still obvious how hard you work to equate BLM with all blacks. Then you say Democrats should "stand up" to BLM. Everyone knows you mean "stop caring about blacks." You work hard to equate trans issues with all LGB issues and then say "stand up to the trans," as though 90% of Americans don't think trans IS gay. What you mean is "stop caring about gay rights."

You're all vermin. For over a year you've been posting this shit constantly on DL, and as soon as you're called out you run off for a few hours then try again. Sure, you might lob a few snowballs before you go, but you'll disappear, only to start a fresh thread with all new sockpuppets, hoping against hope that if you do this for another year or two, you'll have turned DL into the same cesspool of bigotry that YouTube, LiveLeak, Reddit, and even big chunks of Twitter have become.

by Anonymousreply 17July 19, 2017 1:20 PM

Fuck off R16/R17

I was recapping the article for R9, not presenting it as my own POV

Learn some fucking reading comprehension skills.

by Anonymousreply 18July 19, 2017 1:22 PM

The Halloween Yalies may not have actual "power," but their message had the power to represent my turning point, after which I realized I was no longer a "liberal" or a "progressive," which I had always thought of myself as being. Yet that doesn't make me alt-right, 'RACIST!' shriekers. And I believe there are a lot of people like me, registered, or at least nominal, Democrats now with no party representation.

by Anonymousreply 19July 19, 2017 1:29 PM

R18 YEAH!

by Anonymousreply 20July 19, 2017 1:30 PM

Haha yes, I'm sure that you and your little portable cheerleading squad at R20, who just happened to show up within moments of your reply, were merely wanting to inform Dataloungers of these very important points.

by Anonymousreply 21July 19, 2017 1:32 PM

If you read the article dipshit, those are the points it makes and examples it cites.

by Anonymousreply 22July 19, 2017 1:39 PM

Наташа, я думаю, этот сумасшедший человек понял свой хитрый план дестабилизировать Гомосексуальную повестку дня. Мы должны позвонить Бесстрашному Лидеру Путину сразу!

by Anonymousreply 23July 19, 2017 1:44 PM

Eww R21 you have anger issues.

by Anonymousreply 24July 19, 2017 1:51 PM

[quote]Eww R21 you have anger issues.

And you're on a gay site calling people you disagree with "closet queens." Save a little of your self-righteous indignation for yourself.

by Anonymousreply 25July 19, 2017 1:56 PM

Liberals will win again when it's legal for all of them to vote.

by Anonymousreply 26July 19, 2017 2:03 PM

Democrats are the minority party now blacks, latinos, gays, trannies, muslims etc..... Double minorities get more priority for example black and arab muslims are favored over white gays. Freakshows get put on a pedestal "trannies".

Liberals hate poor white people. Too common and crass. It's more progressive and cultured to favor dark muslims and trannies. Kind of like how a music snob thinks they are so sophisticated because they like some obscure shitty song by some unknown band and they think people who listen to mainstream commercial music are idiots. Liberals think they are so sophisticated for liking shitty people that most people hate.

by Anonymousreply 27July 19, 2017 2:30 PM

^^This.

by Anonymousreply 28July 19, 2017 2:33 PM

If you are saying we need the deplorables to win, Im gone

by Anonymousreply 29July 19, 2017 2:37 PM

^^ Then, Bye Felicia.

by Anonymousreply 30July 19, 2017 2:42 PM

R27 EXACTLY

by Anonymousreply 31July 19, 2017 2:47 PM

How's the opiate epidemic in your trailer park, R27?

by Anonymousreply 32July 19, 2017 2:58 PM

[quote]Liberals think they are so sophisticated for liking shitty people that most people hate.

I have to admit, this is kinda funny.

by Anonymousreply 33July 19, 2017 3:00 PM

[quote]Liberals hate poor white people

Eh... it's the other way around. Working class whites believe with their tiny hearts that they are actuall middle-class and that the repubs are talking about them most of the time and have their interests at heart. I see it with my own family. Can't say how many times I've told them "they are not talking about you." But they still think the jobs are coming!

What dems need to do is grow some balls and start attacking repubs and drawing clear lines so peple can choose what side they're on other than party affiliation.

by Anonymousreply 34July 19, 2017 3:00 PM

What R3 said. Democrats will win when they grow some balls and start competing and focusing on local elections as well as national. I'm tired of all the concern trolls, including those on this thread, with their straw man arguments about "political correctness" and so on. If Republicans and Christian right can moralize sanctimoniously while supporting corruption at every level (including the kind of moral corruption they supposedly are against), then we can stand up unapologetically against bigotry, sexism, homophobia, and other prejudices and double standards.

by Anonymousreply 35July 19, 2017 3:03 PM

[quote]then we can stand up unapologetically against bigotry, sexism, homophobia, and other prejudices and double standards.

Including the Dem's double standard of professing "liberalism" while promoting Muslims and "trans"? Including the Dem's double standard of finding absolutely nothing untoward about a bigot vying for the DNC Chairman post?

by Anonymousreply 36July 19, 2017 3:14 PM

[quote]Dem's

No apostrophe needed. If you're gonna rant, do it correctly.

by Anonymousreply 37July 19, 2017 3:17 PM

[quote] I realized I was no longer a "liberal" or a "progressive" ... I believe there are a lot of people like me, registered, or at least nominal, Democrats now with no party representation.

You're not a Democrat, dimwit. You're a Republican. You have plenty of party representation so stop whining.

It just boggles my mind that there are people and/or trolls who think, "I'm not a liberal anymore; therefore, the liberal party needs to become conservative to suit my personal beliefs."

That is not how it works.

by Anonymousreply 38July 19, 2017 3:20 PM

All you need to do is find a candidate who actually cares more about the country than political party and fringe groups. He/she will stand up to the nonsense , which divides us and actually function as a statesman. Take a stand on "triggering," and all of the silliness that has been heaped upon the Democratic party by Republicans, without as a peep in response. I don't care which party nominates this person, I will vote for that person; one who puts country above party. Given the current political climate, this will be next to impossible. But, as long as neither party will talk to each other, we know that not one of them has the people's best interest at heart. The Dems are too saddled with ridiculous fringe groups, all concerned only for their interests. Until they get the balls to repudiate the selfishness and allow the Republicans to control the message, they will lose. Heterosexual men are impressed with fight; they have been raised on sports, where there is a winner and a loser. Democrats are more about feelings, a sign of weakness. Unfortunately, heterosexual men control the electorate. Grow some balls and fight; you might see a turn. Some might say," Who needs breeder men?" The Dems do, because, without them, there can be no victory

by Anonymousreply 39July 19, 2017 3:32 PM

Not a single minority group is looking for special treatment except white gay DL idiots who ignore what white conservatives do every fucking day to focus on minorities and lying about them getting special treatment.

Not being treated like a criminal when you haven't done a fucking thing wrong, is not special treatment. Your sense of entitlement blinds you to that fact and the fact that the majority of this country votes DEM. If we had a real democracy, then you racist/bigoted morons would have to find another way to attack minorities, because the majority voted Dem (even for someone as unpopular as Hillary, she still won the majority) and isn't obsessed with blaming every fucking thing on minorities as you constantly ignore what white males do every day.

I actually hope McConnell succeeds. I can afford healthcare. I look forward to white trash racists (esp., gay ones) who think minorities are their enemies and the only thing they obsess on, losing healthcare because they can't accept that all of the shit that goes on in this country has always had conservative white males at the epicenter.

Even LBJ knew you racist white idiots live to hate minorities.

by Anonymousreply 40July 19, 2017 3:37 PM

I love the concerned posters using conservative talking points straight from Breitbart offering up their fake concern. BLM!! TRANS!! MUSLIMS!!

Yes morons, we should all dumb ourselves down to your level of stupidity where these issues are far more important and threatening vs. the awful things the GOP has done for healthcare, the environment, education, unlimited tax breaks for the super wealthy, etc.

by Anonymousreply 41July 19, 2017 3:39 PM

Josh Barro? A gay man who was a Republican until last September? A man who spends an inordinate amount of time obsessing and ranting about Chelsea Clinton is telling people to stop being so annoying?!

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by Anonymousreply 42July 19, 2017 3:50 PM

exactly R42. Consider the source!

by Anonymousreply 43July 19, 2017 3:53 PM

Josh Barro makes a very valid argument in the article. While a majority of Americans support socially liberal causes, that really did not matter when the Democrats' economic plan failed to resonate with white, working-class or lower middle-class voters in 2016. And that was the fault of the candidate, Hillary Clinton. And, also, the Obama administration. After the video of Romney discussing the 47% in 2012 helped to sink his campaign, how could Clinton refer to voters as "deplorables?" Mind-boggling stupid! It reinforced her image as an entitled elitist. The lives of those who once worked in coal-mining or car-manufacturing have collapsed. The Obama administration and the Clinton campaign needed to get their economic plan for those people out more effectively. They did not. Better known was the Obama administrations support for trans' rights. The average voter might support the rights of trans, but more important to them is a plan to improve their well-being.

It horrifies me that we have an irresponsible imbecile as president who harms and will continue to harm the rule of law. It horrifies me more that Democrats do not have a message to resonate with voters beyond being anti-Trump.

Barro is spot on.

by Anonymousreply 44July 19, 2017 3:53 PM

Barro says Democrats care too much about what kind of hamburger you eat, while Barro himself has tweeted complaints about the kind of burgers people eat.

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by Anonymousreply 45July 19, 2017 3:54 PM

Oh yeah, well the Republicans are the ones obsessed with talking about "nothingburgers." They have to dumb down their talking points to the level of burgers because that is the only level that their fat-ass, idiot constituents would understand.

by Anonymousreply 46July 19, 2017 3:59 PM

R41 perfectly illustrates why the Dems lost and will continue to lose.

by Anonymousreply 47July 19, 2017 4:07 PM

Dems have problems, but attempting to coddle ignorant white idiots who live in their echo chambers where anyone brown or black is their problem, is not it. So go to Breitshart where you can pretend the policies of Republicans and their knowing how fucking stupid you all are ( and that includes the enabling, neocon "liberals" who live to hate black/brown people and pretend that there's some extreme far left takeover of the Dem party when they can't actually point to it unless they engage in hyperbolic, psychotic bullshit logic) will help them continue to destroy this country.

We have people in govt right now who are against environmental policies and bringing back coal, so when you enabling "liberals" pull this shit of blaming minorities and their non-existent demand for "special rights," we know you're assholes who really just want the right to be hateful. You want to be able to see some brown guy doing something in another country on another friggin continent, become apoplectic a over it and then blame millions of hard-working, tax-paying AMERICANS who had nothing to do with it.

And R47 perfectly illustrates the enablers of which I speak. We deserve Trumo because of people like you who believe the only way to win is foment hatred towards people. Your attempt to rationalize hatred is based in you agreeing with it. You think only deplorables have "feewings" but a GOP nom who won based on expressing viceral hate for so many people who work harder than he ever did or paid taxes or served this country unlike him, deserve no respect.

by Anonymousreply 48July 19, 2017 4:14 PM

Fucking autocorrect. TrumP

by Anonymousreply 49July 19, 2017 4:15 PM

Too much screaming at Republicans on here and not enough suggestions for action. Complaining means nothing; your wails are useless. " Oh yeah, what about what the Republicans have done?" Fuck the Republicans, demand candidates who will actually fight for what is right. Don't just support somebody because, " Oh goody, a trans-sexual, black ,immigrant lesbian with a speech impediment. This will show that we are inclusive. Oh, wait a minute, the millennial crowd might get triggered and need a safe space." If it's a white male that can do the best job, then it's a white male. If the trans-sexual, black, immigrant lesbian with a speech impediment is the best, then go for it. But don't let the fascists run the narrative without a fight.

by Anonymousreply 50July 19, 2017 4:15 PM

Can't believe it took til r42 for someone to point out that Josh Barro was a Republican until Trump happened.

OP's is either an idiot or a liar with the headline he choose.

by Anonymousreply 51July 19, 2017 4:23 PM

R50, no one is looking for the candidate to be whatever you described and anyone who does, votes.

Dem policies are for the working class vs the Rep policies, but certain working class people want to be treated as "special" - like coal miners. You think SJW want safe spaces? What about coal miners? No one can fucking tell them to their faces that their antiquated industry holds back this country and that they need to suck it up and learn something new if they actually did live this country. A lot of them simply refuse to change, so yeah, let's just go and blame the brown guy with a degree in computer science for bringing down the country when a large part of this country can't accept they aren't prepared to live in the 21st C.

by Anonymousreply 52July 19, 2017 4:25 PM

Doesn't vote*

by Anonymousreply 53July 19, 2017 4:25 PM

I hate autocorrect so fucking much: LOVE* this country, not live

by Anonymousreply 54July 19, 2017 4:27 PM

The Democrats just need to actually be FOR something concrete (ideally jobs and economy) and talk about that, a lot. Right now it's a bit of a shit show.

Posted this in another thread last night, but bears repeating:

Right now the Dems are not in a good place. My cousin works as sort of a junior-level Robbie Mook-- she helps manage various campaigns around the country. This is her take on things:

They're pissed at Hillary because she won't shut TF up and fade away and outside of deep blue areas like the west side of Manhattan and the west side of Los Angeles, she tends to be a huge liability and she comes off as a sore loser who doesn't want to let the party move on.

They're pissed at Sanders and the BernieBros because they keep pushing ridiculous candidates who'd have trouble winning in ultra liberal Berkeley, let alone middle America. Their candidates are often bad politicians (charmless, inexperienced) and the BBs are incredibly doctrinaire and don't speak to the actual voters in the Congressional district about bread and butter issues (e.g. repaving Route 74)

They're pissed at the media and deep blue Dems like Ted Leung for not letting the Russia thing go. The voters in swing districts want the Dems to be talking about policy, not about how dumb Don Jr met with some Russian lawyer in a Keystone Kop Kaper. That plays really well on DataLounge and in deep blue districts like Leung's (Santa Monica), but she said that in the rest of the country all they hear is "enough about Russia, you've got nothing, just tell us what are you going to do for us about jobs and the economy and repaving Route 74?"

They're pissed at the Congressional Dems because no one seems to be stepping up to counter Trump on policy and actually take leadership of the party. It's all "Russia! Russia! Russia!" which plays well to Pelosi and Schumer's own deep blue constituencies but does nothing to help Dems in purple states and that's what dominates the news cycle: The GOP trying to dismantle Obamacare and Ted Leung screaming "Russia! Russia! Russia!" -- voters are desperate to hear someone screaming "Jobs! Jobs! Jobs! Economy! Economy! Economy!"

by Anonymousreply 55July 19, 2017 4:28 PM

The Democratic message should be to make America great again as being the innovator in the world and that we have stepped back in time due to Trump and the GOP. Trump and the GOP are the past, the Dems are the future.

The message should be that we should look towards the future in renewable energy that doesn't destroy the planet and create more jobs in the future and protects are children. Americans have a big thing about being no. 1 country in the world. Well, China is way ahead of us and moving forward with renewable energy. And this creates more jobs. As Bill Clinton said: jobs, jobs, jobs. The Dems should stress this.

by Anonymousreply 56July 19, 2017 4:30 PM

R55, Russia is a really big thing. That is treason. However, the Democrats message should be about jobs AND Russia.

I agree that Hilary should just mellow out now. There are a LOT of people who dislike her and it doesn't help when she keeps talking about why she didn't win. The fact is, she didn't go out into the rural areas to campaign and meet the people. That's all in the past now and Democrats should stop bickering among each other.

by Anonymousreply 57July 19, 2017 4:33 PM

To say this Russia scandal is important is an understatement. We have never had anything like this before. I mean it speaks to the very heart of the sanctity of our democracy.

by Anonymousreply 58July 19, 2017 4:36 PM

R58, and it speaks to how despicable enabling "liberals" who want to coddle deplorables are, because if Obama so much as owned a fucking nesting doll, impeachment would be underway.

They want to pretend that these people are rational. They don't care that a foreign govt interfered with our fucking election, but think minorities should be treated like shit to get deplorables to vote Dem.

They don't care that a foreign govt was in cahoots with Trump, so remind me again the appeal of trying to get them in the party by treating other Americans like shit.

Cowards attempt to treat deplorables like we don't know exactly why they gravitated to Trump. Cowards rationalize the appeal of a man who is allowed to be repulsive in every conceivable way because he's a racist, white male. The fact that a Kid Rock could now run as a Republican, should tell you that if you're trying to appeal to that type, then just fucking join them, so-called liberals. When was the last Republican nominee not some guy born on third who thinks he hit a triple.

White working class people vote Republican because they can't accept that Trump merely being white doesn't mean he relates to them and that the non-white working class person is in the same boat as them. So blinded by hate for their fellow man/woman and do the bidding of the wealthy by voting Rep.

by Anonymousreply 59July 19, 2017 5:01 PM

[quote]So blinded by hate for their fellow man/woman

Take a good look at your own post; you're projecting.

by Anonymousreply 60July 19, 2017 5:03 PM

Speaking of burgers, anyone else remember how FOX News went on and on and on and on about Obama using fancy mustard (instead of good ol' 'murican yellow mustard). Whatever dems do, repubs will paint 'em whichever way thy want. This is why dems need to grow BALLS and not give a shit what repubs say about them. Grow balls and stand up for something concrete.

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by Anonymousreply 61July 19, 2017 5:04 PM

R57 and R58 -- that's the thing: it's a huge thing to YOU and plenty of other Democratic voters

But the average Democratic-leaning voter is sick of hearing about it, doesn't think there's anything really there other than Trump's usual antics and isn't all that concerned about it. They don't see it as "treason" or an "impeachable offense" -- just more "politics as usual"

Thus harping on it does the Dems no good because it completely overwhelms any message about what those Dem-leaning voters (e.g. NOT Deplorables) care about: jobs and the economy.

by Anonymousreply 62July 19, 2017 5:09 PM

R60, like I didn't see your fortune cookie-wisdom response coming a mile away. I'm speaking specifically about those low income white people who vote Rep. I don't dislike them for being white or poor. You nor they can say the same about the hate towards people based in fearmongering and scapegoating, not their v o t e.

by Anonymousreply 63July 19, 2017 5:11 PM

[quote]They're pissed at the media and deep blue Dems like Ted Leung for not letting the Russia thing go.

How will they feel if it happens again...to a candidate they actually like? What if in 2018 or 2020, Russia succeeds in hacking into the voting system, like they tried to do in 20 states on Election Day? Will they still say, "All right, we just need to move on and live and let God!"

by Anonymousreply 64July 19, 2017 5:13 PM

After 9 months of nothing but smoke but no fire, they just don't see it as a big deal R64, and want the Dems to move on.

Also, telling them that "the only reason you/your Republican family members voted for Trump is because the Russians put fake news in your Facebook feed" isn't winning anyone any friends. Not all Democrats hate Repubilcan voters.

by Anonymousreply 65July 19, 2017 5:19 PM

[quote]After 9 months of nothing but smoke but no fire

I have no words....

by Anonymousreply 66July 19, 2017 5:21 PM

So what you're saying R65 is that supporters of Cheeto Jesus are dumber than tree stumps, and we need to honor and respect mind-numbing stupidity to win elections?

by Anonymousreply 67July 19, 2017 5:25 PM

The Russia scandal just made the cover of People magazine. As Vox writes, "As stories continue to break connecting the Trump campaign to the Kremlin, and the Trump administration and its supporters work to dismiss the allegations as a distraction, the People cover could prove to be a turning point — evidence that the scandal’s gravity is being felt far beyond the field of political punditry."

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by Anonymousreply 68July 19, 2017 5:27 PM

While some white, working class voters voted for Trump because they are racists, to dismiss all of them as racists is the cause of why the Dems will lose future elections. Most white Trump voters are not racists, but are those who felt left behind , forgotten by the system. They have seen heir jobs either disappear or changed to low paying jobs with few benefits. Steel and industrial towns, devastated by unemployment, remain shells. Workers who used to be the backbone of the country are unemployed or underemployed. These are the people that used to make up the Democratic party, proud union people. Today, they just want to be able to provide for their families. Trump, with no political experience or record on which to run, comes in and promises them the world, that he and only he can solve their problems. Meanwhile , Hillary ignores them. Small, local govt, which has been the target of the Repubs awakens to spread the gospel of Trump, and he gets followers. They don't care about his past, they don't care that he is a sexual criminal, they don't care that he is a Republican. He was on the stump promising them jobs, while his opponent was touting her experience to audiences far away from them. They voted for Trump in such a way that it swayed several important states. Look in the mirror, Dems and stop labeling all those people as simple racists. Go to the grass roots level and sow the seeds of progressive thought. They have reached out to religion, gingoism, anything to help them. Sell your message, instead of coddling to the special interest groups., whom the working people believe have not paid their dues, yet get all of the attention. Get back to your roots, stop demonizing those who abandoned you, and fight against the evil that is Trumpism.

by Anonymousreply 69July 19, 2017 5:31 PM

I'm a democrat who was sick about Hillary's lost. I've gotten over it and have moved on.

I believe that Russia interfered in our election.

I believe that this Russia thing should be investigated and the press shouldn't let up. The press should continue to dig and investigate and keep this thing front and center.

That being said...

I think my fellow Democrats should stop pinning all their hopes on this Russia thing and stop hoping that through some miracle of miracles it's going to get Trump booted. I think we are stuck with Trump for 4 years and we just have to deal with that.

I am afraid that Democrats are focusing more on Russia than they are 2018 and that concerns me.

The bottom line, until Trump's base leaves him the Republican Congress isn't going to do one damned thing. Trump's base is more or less solid, they still support him. Republicans in Congress aren't going to piss off his base. And to be quite frank, establishment republicans can't stand Trump but they know that as long as Trump is tied up in one scandal after the next they can pretty much do what they want legislatively -- even though not much has happened these last six months.

I know that no one is going to listen, but our focus should be on 2018. Then 2020. I'm not saying that we should let Russia go or let impeachment go for that matter, but I think we should leave it to Mueller and the press to deal with Russia and impeachment, while we are focused on taking back Congress. Russia isn't going to save us from Trump, but a Democratic Congress will. Think about it.

by Anonymousreply 70July 19, 2017 5:31 PM

Me being disgusted with a working class Republican white woman who was saved by obamacare saying that she hates that it's called that because she doesn't want to credit him and she's clearly a racist, is not the same as where my loathing for her is coming from. The fact that you simplistically conclude that it does, R60, is why I call you enablers. My hate is clearly not because she's white and working class, it's because she hates a black guy who saved her because he's black. She has no credible reason for voting Rep. Like I said earlier, even LBJ knew exactly why these people vote Republican. I would love nothing more than white working class people vote against Reps, but if targeting non-whites is the way to get them, then hell no.

by Anonymousreply 71July 19, 2017 5:31 PM

R38 is exactly the kind of formerly liberal, now alt-left shrieker meant by "so annoying."

by Anonymousreply 72July 19, 2017 5:42 PM

Great post, R69. Basically telling voters in those areas to fuck off because they're not prepared for jobs of the future is not a winning plan.

by Anonymousreply 73July 19, 2017 5:43 PM

[quote]There are a LOT of people who dislike her and it doesn't help when she keeps talking about why she didn't win.

She doesn't. She hasn't been legitimately in the news for two months, not since she spoke out about the election in May. There was also a brief VF article about her upcoming memoir several weeks ago.

Otherwise, all the news you are seeing is shit the Republicans, BernieBros and the media are bringing up about her that she has nothing to do with. And you're doing exactly what they want you to do: blame HER for it.

At some point you need to wake up and ask yourself why newspapers are even ASKING if she's more popular than Trump, and why they're breathlessly reporting that 39% approval for her -- a private citizen right now -- versus 41% for Trump in a poll with a 3%+/- margin of error means "EVERYONE HATES HILLARY AND LOVES DONALD!!!"

Stop just swallowing the shit and think for a second. Seriously.

by Anonymousreply 74July 19, 2017 5:46 PM

Why should the liberals have to constantly denounce their EXTREME fringe teenage non-voters while the conservatives completely ignore their giant base of voting Klan members, nazis, murderers, and Putin fans?

There are actual gop members who say things like "all Muslims should be killed" and confirm people like Sessions (deemed to racist by a republican congress from ALABAMA) and say nothing when their fellow senators physically assault press? Or when nugent said he wants to murder Obama they invited him to the state of the union. Or the actual neo Nazi and old-school nazis in the White House.

But Dems have to denounce the people on Tumblr who say sushi is appropriation? Even though not a single democratic member of congress has ever expressed such an opinion or are connected to those that do?

Why is there such an extreme double standard?

by Anonymousreply 75July 19, 2017 5:49 PM

What some of you trying to pretend why we don't know why Trump even became the nominee, can't tell us is what was wrong with someone like Kasich who specifically spoke of programs for the working class whereas Trump's entire act was shitting on minorities? He proposed no actual programs during the campaign, only constant fearmongering and you know it. He spoke in bumper sticker- form that you'd find on Breitbart. He's a fucking birther. Stop trying to rewrite history. There were other candidarws who actually proposed programs. Trump only engaged in vitriol.

R73, bullshit. They don't even want to hear that their industries are antiquated - that's the point. Feeding their egos is what they want. Telling them the truth that they need to EDUCATE themselves and proposing programs to help -which Dems try to do if you actually pay attention- isn't telling them to fuck off. Way to prove actual projection when being honest with them as you whine about SJW and safe spaces and triggered and snowflakes and being pc, meanwhile, telling a grown man that his industry is a part of what holds the country back, is just so wrong and telling him to "fuck off." It shows that a lot of you can't really handle tough situations and so very thin-skinned as you accuse minorities of wanting special rights.

by Anonymousreply 76July 19, 2017 5:57 PM

Candidates*

by Anonymousreply 77July 19, 2017 5:58 PM

R16 Did the media force Hilary to feature Michael Brown's mother at the DNC? Did they also insist that a grieving Muslim couple take center stage?

A short time after Pulse, did the media place the murdering terrorist in the audience behind Hillary?

Those three things= TONE DEAF

by Anonymousreply 78July 19, 2017 6:00 PM

[quote] So what you're saying [R65] is that supporters of Cheeto Jesus are dumber than tree stumps, and we need to honor and respect mind-numbing stupidity to win elections?

No. Those are Democrats who voted for Clinton and who are represented by Republicans in Congress. What my cousin is reporting is that they care about bread and butter issues and what they hear back FROM DEMOCRATS is that they're sick of hearing about Russia, what are you going to do for my pocketbook.

They (the Democratic operatives) blame this to a large degree on the media, which finds Russia! Russia! Russia! gets them a lot more clicks than a more serious article on the economy. And on deep blue Reps like Ted Leung whose constituents are in fact (like many DLers) very concerned and upset about Russia (and, if they're living in Santa Monica, probably less concerned about jobs)

by Anonymousreply 79July 19, 2017 6:02 PM

[quote]Otherwise, all the news you are seeing is shit the Republicans, BernieBros and the media are bringing up about her that she has nothing to do with.

Check out the below link for what Fox News was covering last night in primetime. We have people in this country who have devoted (wasted) a considerable chunk of their lives obsessed with and hating this woman since the early 90s. And now that she only appears in the audience of Broadway shows or at some library conference, they just don't know what to do.

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by Anonymousreply 80July 19, 2017 6:04 PM

R78= Non-white people aren't real Americans and should be hidden away from view.

Captain Khan died serving his country and trying to save the lives of his fellow soldiers. Fuck you for degrading his family being able to tell their story because you don't like brown people.

by Anonymousreply 81July 19, 2017 6:05 PM

[quote]Did they also insist that a grieving Muslim couple take center stage?

Grieving parents of US soldier killed in Iraq.

by Anonymousreply 82July 19, 2017 6:06 PM

Because ""EVERYONE HATES HILLARY" gets them a fuckload of clicks, R74

by Anonymousreply 83July 19, 2017 6:06 PM

[quote]I think my fellow Democrats should stop pinning all their hopes on this Russia thing and stop hoping that through some miracle of miracles it's going to get Trump booted. I think we are stuck with Trump for 4 years and we just have to deal with that.

Thanks for sharing, Natasha.

This is [bold]TREASON[/bold], pure and simple. The Russian mob bought the political party currently in power, and is using it to fuck up the American government.

You wanna belittle this as more Dem vs. GOP sniping, fine. But it's a fuckload more than that. American Democracy quite literally is in danger of being extinguished. Anybody paying attention can see that.

by Anonymousreply 84July 19, 2017 6:07 PM

Great post R70

You 100% get it and offer a great way forward.

by Anonymousreply 85July 19, 2017 6:08 PM

The places where Hillary won the non-Hispanic white vote. They'd die before they gave up their smug entitlement to look down on everyone else.

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by Anonymousreply 86July 19, 2017 6:08 PM

But that's the thing R84... most people, including most Democrats can't. They just don't think it's that big a deal and they don't see anything that's making them want to riot in the streets.

I understand your frustration and, as R70 suggested, the investigations should not be suspended, but to win in 2018, we need to stop focusing on the needs of deep blue districts--they are always going to vote for Dems and focus on light blue and purple ones where people care about jobs more than they care about Putin.

by Anonymousreply 87July 19, 2017 6:11 PM

When I read people here, I'm not surprised the Dems lost.

Rather than insulting the Reps and their voters, ask yourself where you fucked up cause you managed to lose against the worst candidate ever : Donald Fucking Trump.

The only thing you know is blaming everyone but you should look a good time in the mirror and start some self-criticism if you want to win the next elections.

Besides that I don't care, I'm french. I voted Macron and enjoy your political shitshow from the other side of the atlantic.

by Anonymousreply 88July 19, 2017 6:11 PM

R88, with all due respect, then you don't understand that blaming people is exactly how Trump even won. It seems that's what people aren't getting or lack apathy due to who he targeted.

by Anonymousreply 89July 19, 2017 6:17 PM

Hillary and the Dems were overconfident and presumed that everyone would think that Trump was unelectable, which is why they concentrated on the sexual dalliances so much. The only person more surprised that Trump was elected than Hillary was Trump. To quote Shakespeare ( as the SJWs would dismiss him as " A dead white man") "...Security is man's chieftest enemy." Overconfidence kills.

by Anonymousreply 90July 19, 2017 6:23 PM

[quote]Way to prove actual projection when being honest with them as you whine about SJW and safe spaces and triggered and snowflakes and being pc

You're unhinged. There's an easy way to tell if I said any of those things on DL. Hint: I didn't.

[quote], They don't even want to hear that their industries are antiquated - that's the point. Feeding their egos is what they want. Telling them the truth that they need to EDUCATE themselves and proposing programs to help -which Dems try to do if you actually pay attention- isn't telling them to fuck off..

Read most of the comments online from liberals about the Trump supporters in these areas. Most of them say something to the effect of, "They're not prepared. Too bad!" Hillary just told people to go to her website and didn't bother campaigning in those areas. There are effective ways to get messages across without sounding like an asshole. You may call it coddling and enabling. I call it knowing your audience.

Or we can just double down on what didn't work for us this last election.

by Anonymousreply 91July 19, 2017 6:23 PM

Democrats need to be able to explain their policy positions on key issues in short sound bites that will fit on bumper stickers and in 140-character tweets. Trump was able to explain his positions on health care ("Repeal and replace!"), immigration ("Build a wall!"), terrorism ("Ban Muslims!") and Hillary's email scandal ("Lock her up!") in short sound bites. Granted, Trump's ideas were pure bullshit, but he knew how to boil things down into simple language. The Democratic position on most issues seems to be "It's complicated" or "View our website for more details." That's fine when it comes to actually governing, but during a campaign voters want simple slogans. If Democrats can't summarize their positions on issues like the economy, health care, and immigration in 15 seconds or less, that's a problem.

by Anonymousreply 92July 19, 2017 6:25 PM

R89 I don't think tho, of course I'm just a witness but we had presidential elections too and in some ways very similar.

We had a populist facist candidate. Russia tried to highjack the elections. And we have our racists and homophobes.

But the thing is that Democrats look and sound smug even from here. Give people what they want: a job, a house, a car. Trump promised that, he spoke to people's primal instinct and reptilian brains.

Democrats can argue they're more moral and shit, and they are. But what middle America want first is good jobs and good jobs for their kids. If democrats think it's too below them to talk to white trash, they'll never win.

by Anonymousreply 93July 19, 2017 6:26 PM

R82 My problem with the khans has nothing to do with them being "brown." But by having them as a focal point, it screams "you folks need to accept Muslim immigrants just as they do in Germany, England and Sweden." That is a big fat non-starter with at least 45% of the country. Yes, an Iranian American gave his life for the US, but how many black and Latin and Caucasian soldiers also died? A heck of a lot more. So why would you focus on a Muslim KIA unless you are trying to ram the acceptance of Muslims entering this country? Some here think every dam thing is about "black and brown" folks being short changed. But do you not understand that the MAJORITY feels short changed(primarily with jobs) and they actually represent the votes needed to win the election?

It's simple math. You have to appeal to the Majority to get the opportunity to serve and protect the minorities.

by Anonymousreply 94July 19, 2017 6:30 PM

No more pictures of The Pig eating pork!

by Anonymousreply 95July 19, 2017 6:30 PM

LIBERALS SHOULD STOP WHINING AND CONCENTRATE ON TRAVELLING TO MARS THE FASTEST AND STAY THERE AND PROPAGATE YOUR TRIBE. ENOUGH!

by Anonymousreply 96July 19, 2017 6:32 PM

[quote] While some white, working class voters voted for Trump because they are racists, to dismiss all of them as racists is the cause of why the Dems will lose future elections. Most white Trump voters are not racists, but are those who felt left behind , forgotten by the system. They have seen heir jobs either disappear or changed to low paying jobs with few benefits. Steel and industrial towns, devastated by unemployment, remain shells. Workers who used to be the backbone of the country are unemployed or underemployed. These are the people that used to make up the Democratic party, proud union people. Today, they just want to be able to provide for their families.

Yes lets keep singing this same song about these poor downtrodden people who were for reasons unknown "left behind". They were left behind because the Republican Party and the wealthy 1% who own it have pursued an anti middle class anti working class agenda for decades. For decades their policies have made it increasingly difficult for the 99% to survive. Trickle down and deregulation are designed to push money to the top, and it has done that. Who has spent the last several decades eradicating labor unions. Was it the SJW liberal elite special snow flakes that did that? No Republicans did that. At every turn every level of government Republicans have worked no stop to disenfranchise, disable and destroy middle class and working class Americans. And who supported them every step of the way? Was it BLM, SJW liberal elites, black and brown boogie men, Muslims? No. The majority of middle class and working class Whites always vote Republican, always. Democrats never win the white majority. Why? A vote for Republicans is a vote against black and brown people. Whom Republicans have told Whites for decades are the source of all white America's problems. The strategy is not new. Very early on wealthy Whites realized that in order to maintain control of this nation and this nation's wealth. They needed to keep poor Blacks and Whites divided. The Democratic Party has never abandoned the poor and the middle class. Although poor and middle class whites continue to make it increasingly difficult for Democrats to establish policy on their behalf. The Democratic message is not the problem. Hillary's message was not the problem. The policy agenda is not the problem. The problem is that 1/2 the country refuses to listen. Acknowledging the minority groups who faithfully support the Democratic Party or as some like to call it "identity politics" is not the problem. Being so caught up in the identity of being supreme white (which is never referred to as identity politics) that you faithfully vote for a policy agenda that is destroying you, is the problem. Don't tell me that these former blue collar factory workers main concern is their pocket books and yet they vote to kill labor unions. Don't tell me that they care about the "coddling of special interest"; when they continue to support the party that gave us Citizens United. When the jobs left Detroit and any other urban area heavily populated by Blacks or blacks and Hispanics. These same Republican voters looked at those people and said: This is your fault. Poverty is the result of your own moral failings. Why don't the pull themselves up by your boot straps, like we did (which is a lie). They cheered for the Republican demonization of the poor. They supported the polices that helped to created the urban poor. So now those chickens have come home to roost. Those same policies that they continue to support have destroyed them. Instead of fighting the people who prey upon them and their ignorance; they're still consciously or unconsciously waging a war against the other, the black and brown boogie man. I've said this before, and I will say it again. If we as a nation cannot move past this level of ignorance. We deserve to perish.

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by Anonymousreply 97July 19, 2017 6:39 PM

[quote]The Democratic message is not the problem. Hillary's message was not the problem. The policy agenda is not the problem.

I agree with most of what you wrote. However to say the Democratic messaging isn't a problem ignores the elephant in the room: we keep losing! The messaging is obviously a problem if, when polled, most Americans agree with Democrats on economic and social issues.

by Anonymousreply 98July 19, 2017 6:48 PM

[quote] I agree with most of what you wrote. However to say the Democratic messaging isn't a problem ignores the elephant in the room: we keep losing! The messaging is obviously a problem if, when polled, most Americans agree with Democrats on economic and social issues.

We lose because we don't turn our base out and Republicans cheat. So on our on side there is messaging is an issue. The main issue of both sides is that Americans are lazy and stupid.

by Anonymousreply 99July 19, 2017 7:01 PM

People don't vote cause they don't see the interest.

Tons of people think elections won't change anything and the more marginalized they are the less they vote.

by Anonymousreply 100July 19, 2017 7:04 PM

Yes R100 lazy and stupid.

by Anonymousreply 101July 19, 2017 7:05 PM

[quote]But by having them as a focal point, it screams "you folks need to accept Muslim immigrants just as they do in Germany, England and Sweden."

No, it screams "we're America and believe that all people are created equal and we strive to love our neighbors. ALL of them."

by Anonymousreply 102July 19, 2017 7:06 PM

Trump won cause people who usually didn't vote voted for him this time.

Democrats need to do the same and stop being smug about how they're Haward educated to start speaking to middle white trash redneck murica.

by Anonymousreply 103July 19, 2017 7:06 PM

The Democrats are gaining in the college educated demographic, particularly in urban and coastal areas; and has basically lost blue collar, more rural, and non-college educated whites. Black citizens, outside the older, church affiliated, more educated, and well-established middle class, are not dependable voters. Assuming the majority of Latinos are flaming liberals is a fallacy. Culturally, they can be quite conservative.

The Democratic Party needs unify around three or four central themes that would appeal to a broad spectrum of the electorate. Everyone, perhaps exclusive of those who are already super rich, seek better income, better government services for their taxes, means for job advancements, and not fear losing what they already have. Security is important. Health care is important. Environmental protection is important if defined better in terms of new energy, new jobs, and much improved intrastructure. People complain about the cost of entitlements, yet they don't want to lose their own.

The article has its obvious points, but organization and economie messaging is critical. Frankly, the DNC, for some years, has been fairly incompetent and lazy. Republican out-hussle them bigtime. Losing by just 2% in any election is still losing. It is long pass due to find new ways to succeed; doubling down on what hasn't work just leads to more loses, particularly in state and local elections.

by Anonymousreply 104July 19, 2017 7:08 PM

I like you, R104. I think we're going to have to start our own movement within the party to influence it.

by Anonymousreply 105July 19, 2017 7:18 PM

You know really don't need deplorables. We need to appeal to the educated suburban electorate that agree with a lot of liberal ideas yet STILL vote for R's. That's the key and the reason Hillary is not president.

by Anonymousreply 106July 19, 2017 7:25 PM

R102 They feel that way in Sweden and Germany as well!

by Anonymousreply 107July 19, 2017 7:25 PM

[quote] The article has its obvious points, but organization and economie messaging is critical. Frankly, the DNC, for some years, has been fairly incompetent and lazy. Republican out-hussle them bigtime. Losing by just 2% in any election is still losing. It is long pass due to find new ways to succeed; doubling down on what hasn't work just leads to more loses, particularly in state and local elections.

This about more than laziness or incompetence on the part of Democrats. It is much easier to feed ignorance (particularly via the misinformation and disinformation of the internet) than to change and overcome it. Particularly when the majority of the population is disengaged and poorly educated. It is much easier to divide people rather than to unite them. Republicans have spent the last 30 yrs feed ignorance and dividing the country via right wing radio and FOX "News". Republicans lie, cheat and steal to win. That also cannot be easily overcome.

by Anonymousreply 108July 19, 2017 7:31 PM

Yes R107 You hate Muslims. We get it. Continuing to pepper the thread with nonsense is not necessary.

by Anonymousreply 109July 19, 2017 7:33 PM

Hear, hear, R69!

What everyone seems to forget is that the GOP controls LOCAL government too. So whatever claims may be made (and rightly so) about Russia or other influencers on the 2016 election, Americans are still voting GOP on many other governmental levels.

And remember that the largest political protest in US history was the WOMEN'S MARCH of January 2017. In 2016, women made up 50.8% of the US population. So Democrats need to stop the attempted erasure of XX by MtF, stop their attacks on Title IX to favor boys who claim they are girls, stop the push to allow EVERY man legal access to spaces where women are naked and vulnerable, because, as more and more women wake up to what is happening -- fucking Glamour naming BruceLyn Fucking Jenner its Woman of the Year, Teen Vogue referring to women as "non-prostate owners" --they will feel that the Democrats have become the party of misogyny. And the T even had the fucking gall to complain that the Women's March meme was pussies, because MtT don't have pussies. Peak Trans coming soon.

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by Anonymousreply 110July 19, 2017 7:35 PM

"Americans are still voting GOP on many other governmental levels"

No, they are voting Dem. But due to gerrymandering their votes don't matter.

by Anonymousreply 111July 19, 2017 7:37 PM

[quote]Rather than insulting the Reps and their voters, ask yourself where you fucked up cause you managed to lose against the worst candidate ever : Donald Fucking Trump.

So in the face of severe gerrymandering, hacking of voter registration databases, restrictive voter ID laws, targeted fake propaganda against HRC, your assessment from France is that the Dems just fucked up their messaging? Should have offered empty promises without intentions to fulfill?

[quote]Besides that I don't care, I'm french. I voted Macron and enjoy your political shitshow from the other side of the atlantic.

So you're an asshole and don't care what happens to us. Um, okay.

To play on a wartime analogy, what if the US said in 1944, "well it sucks that you got run over & occupied by the Nazis, but you have nobody to blame for yourself for not fighting back, sorry"?

by Anonymousreply 112July 19, 2017 7:48 PM

R97 A lot of people vote on abortion, not racism. I know two people who despise Trump and who aren't racist who voted for him because of the abortion issue. They truly believe that the fetus is a person and that abortion is murder, so if they vote for a pro-choice candidate they are voting for a murderer. Not the best logic, given how many "pro-life" people are also pro-war, but there you have it.

But keep hurling the "everyone who votes Republican is racist and that's it," and keep losing.

And R211, not true of all elections. For instance, the GOP hold 33 governorships while the Democrats hold 16.

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by Anonymousreply 113July 19, 2017 8:01 PM

R112 Hahaha, the fact is that the US fought against Nazies not because they wanted to be nice to French or to the UK but because it was its fucking selfish interest.

Why europeans should care about you? It's your problem, you elected this moron, not us. Seriously, what should we do about Trump? Protest????? Start a war against the US????

We have our own problems and issues, some of them created by the Irak war, remember a war we told you not to do.

You created this shit, you elected him now it's your problem, not ours. It's not like we can do anything.

by Anonymousreply 114July 19, 2017 8:05 PM

And, r113, they hold those governorships primarily in the less populous states...in other words, fewer people vote for reps then dems in governor races in total as well.

by Anonymousreply 115July 19, 2017 8:05 PM

[quote] what are you going to do for my pocketbook.

R53, why don't your idiot deplorable relatives ask that same question to the Republicans who are currently in charge of the presidency, House and Senate?

by Anonymousreply 116July 19, 2017 8:13 PM

Democrats don't want to acknowledge that the minority voters they are chasing all come from patriarchal societies. Blacks, Mexicans, Muslims. They all come from societies or religions where men are the boss and women shut up. So what do they do? Select a woman. A lot of these people would vote for any man on earth over a woman. How many Muslims are going to vote for a woman? Mexicans are often Republicans, pro-life, and conservative. They want women in their place, at home, barefoot and having a bunch of babies. Hillary is like Satan to these people.

Then, they focused on millennials, who don't vote anyway. The party is too damned old. They don't understand what the generation coming up after them cares about.They assume that young people aren't racist or sexist. I think that's wrong. This young generation isn't 1960's hippies now. They are very hostile to women, including many of the young women who thought Hillary had to be goodlooking, hip and young to be a good President. Nobody says that about men running for President. They elected Trump who is none of the above, with no problem. The expectations for a woman are completely different. She has to be a complete paragon of virtue for the SJWs, and sexy for everyone else. Asking that of most sixty year old women is unrealistic, let alone a seventy year old. People didn't want an old lady to be President.

Meanwhile, in other countries it's no problem because every older woman doesn't have to be a sexpot until she's ninety. Women in politics in the EU are valued for their political views, not their rack. As long as that's not the case here, forget about women for the highest office until either Kim K runs for President or people grow up.

by Anonymousreply 117July 19, 2017 8:19 PM

[quote]To play on a wartime analogy, what if the US said in 1944, "well it sucks that you got run over & occupied by the Nazis, but you have nobody to blame for yourself for not fighting back, sorry"?

Then the Nazis would have still been defeated by Red Army (which is who defeated them).

by Anonymousreply 118July 19, 2017 8:21 PM

[quote]No, it screams "we're America and believe that all people are created equal and we strive to love our neighbors. ALL of them."

Long as they're not next-door neighbours, right? German courts recently acquitted a Turkish man of rape because of his culture. They agreed with the woman, that she was violently raped but because of WHO her rapist was he was let off. In the eyes of that court her personal sovereignty was so secondary, so optional compared to left-wing worship of cultural relativism that a man from a misogynistic culture could violently rape a woman and because of that culture be let off with nary a slap or 'bold boy'. There are stories like this everywhere migrants have been taken in. If you want to mimic what Germany, England and Sweden have done without so much as a pause or reflection to the consequences you deserve everything Trump gives you.

by Anonymousreply 119July 19, 2017 8:44 PM

Liberals can win again if liberals stop writing stupid articles calling liberals annoying. Do the deplorables do this? No. Learn from their example, stupid liberals.

by Anonymousreply 120July 19, 2017 8:46 PM

Please stop reading the right-wing media machine of alternative facts r119. You've never even been to Germany have you? Btw, Merkel remains popular there and is expected to win reelection yet again.

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by Anonymousreply 121July 19, 2017 8:48 PM

[quote]Then the Nazis would have still been defeated by Red Army (which is who defeated them).

Yes, they did. Remind me again who liberated France? Weren't the Russkies.

[quote]Why europeans should care about you? It's your problem, you elected this moron, not us.

Good luck without NATO, cupcake. Hope you've got some basic Russian phrases handy.

by Anonymousreply 122July 19, 2017 8:54 PM

I hate stupid shit like this.

Republicans are literally trying to KILL people, but everyone whines "I can't vote for a liberal because they're so annoyingly right all the time".

Fuck off with that bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 123July 19, 2017 10:13 PM

The Khan thing was a mistake R94, because it was the wrong thing to focus on.

Clinton's goal there was to point out that unlike that racist Trump, she believed that Muslims were valuable citizens and that we can't discriminate against them.

It played very well... to the people who were always going to vote for her, liberals in deep blue states.

The on-the-fence voters were less concerned about Muslims and more concerned about jobs and the answer they got was "yeah, yeah, yeah, it's on my website."

The Bernie Bro contingent is making this same mistake now, supporting candidates in toss-up races who score well with progressives and lose the general election.

by Anonymousreply 124July 19, 2017 10:20 PM

[quote]

[quote]I hate stupid shit like this.

[quote]Republicans are literally trying to KILL people, but everyone whines "I can't vote for a liberal because they're so annoyingly right all the time".

[quote]Fuck off with that bullshit.

Well, I have OP on block, so I would say OP is most definitely NOT a Democrat, but a shit stirrer. The worst part is all of you falling for Dem trashing baits like this thread and humoring the OP.

Wise up.

by Anonymousreply 125July 19, 2017 10:25 PM

This is the mindset of people like OP:

[quote]That is the #StillWithHer cult—the establishment of this Democratic Party—that likes to be the dead horse that is the corporate Democrats and their 2916 nominee for president of the United States, Hilllary Clinton. They elected Donald Trump in 2016. They are determined to re-elect Trump in 2020.

by Anonymousreply 126July 19, 2017 10:27 PM

Who cares who you have on block, R125?

by Anonymousreply 127July 19, 2017 10:27 PM

[quote]so I would say OP is most definitely NOT a Democrat, but a shit stirrer

Duh. That was a genuinely stupid article, even though I often like Josh Barro's comments. I could just as easily have written that same article, almost word for word (just changing the specific targets) against the Republican Party. It's stupid, shallow, and facile.

by Anonymousreply 128July 19, 2017 10:32 PM

[quote] German courts recently acquitted a Turkish man of rape because of his culture. They agreed with the woman, that she was violently raped but because of WHO her rapist was he was let off.

No. You need to get out of your echo chamber more often. In fact, the culture of the accused was explicitly not considered by the court.

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by Anonymousreply 129July 19, 2017 10:35 PM

I think there are more DLers who agree with that statement R126 than disagree with it.

by Anonymousreply 130July 19, 2017 10:36 PM

That has not been my experience, R130.

by Anonymousreply 131July 19, 2017 10:37 PM

[quote]So Democrats need to stop the attempted erasure of XX by MtF....

Blah, blah, blah. Give it a fucking rest. God you anti-T obsessives are irritating. Thankfully, the country is not with you.

by Anonymousreply 132July 19, 2017 10:38 PM

One Datalounge

Two gay men.

Two VERY different experiences

by Anonymousreply 133July 19, 2017 10:39 PM

[quote] It played very well... to the people who were always going to vote for her, liberals in deep blue states.

That pretty much summarizes the whole 2016 campaign. Remember all of Hillary's TV ads scolding Trump for mocking the disabled reporter, for calling Miss Universe fat, for using foul language ("Who will think of the children!!!???"). All of those ads were extremely effective for those people who were always going to vote for Hillary anyway. But I doubt that a single Trump voter said, "OMG!!! Trump mocked a disabled reporter! I didn't know that. Well, that settles it. I'm switching my vote to Hillary, all the way!"

by Anonymousreply 134July 19, 2017 10:44 PM

Like clockwork, the Trans Troll shows up at R132.

Again, the WOMEN'S MARCH was the largest political protest in US history, and females make up more than 50% of the population. Ergo, to win, the Democrats need women to vote for them, so take a seat, sweetheart @ 132, and stop with your attempts to erase women and gays.

Soros is funding the Trans and Black Lives Matter. In fact, his Open Society is the #1 funder of the Trans agenda. Does Soros realize that these help the GOP win, does he care?

by Anonymousreply 135July 19, 2017 10:51 PM

R135, the only person here on "clockwork" is you, bringing your anti-T agenda to every fucking thread, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Like I said, give it a fucking rest.

[quote]Again, the WOMEN'S MARCH was the largest political protest in US history

Since the polls show that women don't agree with you, I'm not sure what point you think you're making, other than the undeniable fact that you're a moron.

[quote]so take a seat, sweetheart @ 132, and stop with your attempts to erase women and gays.

Speaking of delusional....

[quote]Soros is funding the Trans and Black Lives Matter. In fact, his Open Society is the #1 funder of the Trans agenda. Does Soros realize that these help the GOP win, does he care?

LOL.... You really *are* delusional. God, I only *wish* Soros had as much influence as you morons claim he does.

by Anonymousreply 136July 19, 2017 10:58 PM

Soros is not and has never been a liberal. He saved GWB's business career.

by Anonymousreply 137July 19, 2017 11:22 PM

I'm curious what specifically people want the Dems to be saying about jobs. Every politician I've ever heard is all for "jobs" without ever being too specific. Great. More Jobs! Yay! But are we allowed to talk about what kind of jobs? Are we allowed to talk about raising the minimum wage? Are we allowed to talk about educating people for jobs? Are we allowed to talk about the enormous burden that health care costs puts on all corporations, and how single payer might actually help?

Or does it all have to be a mindless ME LIKE JOBS, ME DON'T GIVE SHIT ABOUT ENVIRONMENT, COAL! FUCK YEAH!

Personally, I think we should be moving toward a 30-hour work week, but that will scare the children, so I don't expect any politician to start talking about that.

by Anonymousreply 138July 19, 2017 11:42 PM

If I see one more Republican cross-dressing as a "Democrat" telling us how to win by turning into Republicans I'll go fucking postal.

by Anonymousreply 139July 19, 2017 11:48 PM

[quote]Are we allowed to talk about the enormous burden that health care costs puts on all corporations, and how single payer might actually help?

This would actually be a great message. I'd thrown in "mom and pop" businesses in the messaging to seem folksy. Democrats need to start using this before the GOP does.

by Anonymousreply 140July 19, 2017 11:49 PM

And why is Soros the only billionaire wingnuts want to hate? Have fun, hate 'em all. (Even though we know you still have to give em massive tax cuts. That's wingnut Dogma, after all, and must never ever be questioned.)

by Anonymousreply 141July 19, 2017 11:49 PM

I agree R140

You can spin it as pro-entrepreneur--which it is-- if you don't have to worry about health insurance (which you get through your employer) you're far more likely to go out and try to start a business.-- it's one less cost.

As for the Pussy Hat March, it quickly got tarred as "upper middle class women who can afford to travel to DC for a weekend to meet up with their old sorority sisters and all get really cute matching sweatshirts"

Which isn't true (except for the sweatshirts) but it's become what the Deps believe.

by Anonymousreply 142July 20, 2017 12:17 AM

Fucking T supporters - lie, deflect, lie, deflect...

So, again, here is the funding for the T from 2004-2013.

Soros' Open Societies at the top of the list.

TRANSFORMATIONAL IMPACT- FOUNDATION FUNDING FOR TRANS COMMUNITIES 1. Open Society Foundations $3,190,078 42 (grants)

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 143July 20, 2017 12:42 AM

Hillary lost, I get that. It's over and done. But, there was one candidate with a plan to help the middle class. There was one candidate who had a plan for jobs for the white working class in the Rust Belt. The woman had a plan for everything. She was the most qualified candidate, ever. So I'm tired of hearing this bullshit about it being about the economy and jobs. She had a plan. Donald Trump had nothing and six months in office and he still hasn't done shit. So I don't believe those of you who scream that it's about jobs and the economy. She had a plan.

by Anonymousreply 144July 20, 2017 12:49 AM

Cupcake, your delusions are that Soros personally funds "Trans and Black Lives Matter." And that the supposed 16% of the total funding for the transgender organizations that his foundation provides gives Soros any great influence. And that he personally wields that influence. And that "these [organizations] help the GOP win." Sadly for you, you can't back up any of these idiotic claims, mostly because they're idiotic.

For example: "More than half of American women believe trans people should use the bathroom that matches their gender identity." So much for your talking point.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 145July 20, 2017 12:49 AM

Mike Pence has R143's phone in his GPS

As soon as he takes over, R143 is the first guest at the Mother Pence Camp for Confused Young Cis-Men and Cis-Women

The sign on the gate says it all: "Chirurgie Macht Frei"

by Anonymousreply 146July 20, 2017 12:50 AM

[quote]The woman had a plan for everything.

She did indeed. Only instead of explaining it in the sorts of soundbites her husband excelled at, she kept saying "it's on the website" and running attack ads on Trump. So most people had no idea what her plans were.

[quote] She was the most qualified candidate, ever.

Not even close.

Like him or not, Bush The Elder was way more "qualified" -- Military service, Congressman, UN Ambassador, Head of the CIA, and two-term Vice President.

by Anonymousreply 147July 20, 2017 12:55 AM

R144, a lot of us are not saying she didn't have a plan. We're saying her messaging, as well as the party as a whole, was off. As many people have said, the messages have to be easily understood and digestible. "It's on my website!" is not a message.

by Anonymousreply 148July 20, 2017 12:55 AM

She brought shame on to our party.

by Anonymousreply 149July 20, 2017 12:56 AM

You are completely in the wrong, R147. She had an extremely detailed economic policy. And she easily may have been one of the best prepared candidates that we've seen in recent years.

But what is the use of arguing with people like you who would NEVER give Clinton any credit even if ample evidence is put right in front of you.

I thank you for not calling her a cunt, though I am sure you've done it plenty of time before.

by Anonymousreply 150July 20, 2017 1:00 AM

I hear what you're saying R148... that we have to dumb ourselves down to get votes.

by Anonymousreply 151July 20, 2017 1:06 AM

[quote] You are completely in the wrong, [R147]. She had an extremely detailed economic policy

If you had passed 4th grade reading, you'd see that I said that.

And that the problem was that it was buried on her website and she did not produce the "sorts of soundbites her husband excelled at"

Further adding to your poor reading comp skills: Saying that H was more "qualified" does not mean she was unqualified. It's not a win or lose game. It merely means that H was indeed more qualified on paper.

by Anonymousreply 152July 20, 2017 1:11 AM

[quote]I hear what you're saying [R148]... that we have to dumb ourselves down to get votes.

That condescending attitude is one of the reasons why many voters - I'm not talking about the racist ones either - didn't vote for Hillary and give the Democratic party the side eye. How would you like to indirectly be stupid by a bunch of people trying to convince you to vote with them?

by Anonymousreply 153July 20, 2017 1:12 AM

The GOPS think the same way R153

They're just clever enough to not be so obvious about it.

by Anonymousreply 154July 20, 2017 1:13 AM

[quote]The woman had a plan for everything.

Her plan to show leadership, courage and strength by giving a noteworthy concession speech on election night seemed like it needed more details, like that she should have showed up to give it.

by Anonymousreply 155July 20, 2017 1:17 AM

I don't think that's condescending. It's condescending to treat people like idiots because you believe they can't follow anything beyond a 140 characters. I get having a clear, concise message, but people have to do some of the work on their own.

by Anonymousreply 156July 20, 2017 1:18 AM

[quote] but people have to do some of the work on their own.

Which is what Hillary basically said by telling people to go to her website. And she lost.

I don't know why so many are failing to connect the dots here.

by Anonymousreply 157July 20, 2017 1:30 AM

Because it came off like this:

"Stop bothering me about details--it's all on my website someplace if you're that curious. I'm too busy here in Bel Air and the Hamptons to explain it to you people. You want a soundbite? Look at what Donald Trump just said!!!"

And so on

And so on

by Anonymousreply 158July 20, 2017 1:34 AM

R78, and you're deaf, dumb and blind .

The fact that you think the Dems must sink to your level where you psychotically want your despicable, hateful, bigoted views to be what the Dem Party stands for, is precisely why I couldn't give a fuck if Trump keeps winning. The Khans had every right to be up there to respond to a pos whose been attacking people like them for a YEAR and you're triggered by a few mins of them because they had the nerve to show assholes that they've sacrificed more for this country than that draft-dodging, tax scheming, slimy asshole who is precisely why this country sucks? You missed the fucking point of why they were even up there because you want people like them treated like shit. What they did was show assholes that an immigrant knows the constitution better than the fucking GOP nominee to be president. It's like making someone who never read an anatomy book, a doctor.

Nasty people like you had no problem with Trump denigrating people like them who become the best Americans. You enjoyed that nefarious characterization of people without a consideration for them having to deal with the fallout of such a repulsive, pussy-grabbing, white supremacist roach.

by Anonymousreply 159July 20, 2017 1:39 AM

Who's*

by Anonymousreply 160July 20, 2017 1:48 AM

R159 Another DL Islam loving sellout.

by Anonymousreply 161July 20, 2017 1:52 AM

[quote]Another DL Islam loving sellout.

Another idiot who cannot engage with what people actually say so has to pretend that they said something they didn't say. You morons are nothing if not predictable.

by Anonymousreply 162July 20, 2017 1:54 AM

R162, I don't even bother responding to them. They're idiots who pride themselves on being idiots.

by Anonymousreply 163July 20, 2017 2:29 AM

It's amazing watching the translation that goes on in their tiny little minds:

"It probably isn't a good idea to pretend that 1.8 billion people are all exactly alike" apparently comes through as, "I love Sharia Law and I rejoice as gay men are thrown off buildings!"

Or, as in this case: "The fact that you think the Dems must sink to your level where you psychotically want your despicable, hateful, bigoted views to be what the Dem Party stands for..." apparently came through as "I love all Muslims and I'll be happy when they take over and ban all gay sex." That's the only explanation I can think of for the bizarre response: "Another DL Islam loving sellout."

by Anonymousreply 164July 20, 2017 2:40 AM

OK, I can't resist. You stupidly wondered in one of your stupid posts why this Muslim soldier got attention and then you referred to me as a sellout and an Islam defender and your every post is attacking all Muslims?

Idiots like YOU are the reason the Khans were up there, you fucking idiot - that's what your obtuse ass doesn't get. You see, shit-for-brains, if Khan's mother was just walking down the street and no one knew who she was, a scumbag like you would scream terrorist at her or blame her for what happened in France that day. You want her treated like she's responsible. Those other soldiers you mentioned, their mothers wouldn't be treated that way, you turd. They weren't up there because their son was more important than other soldiers. They were up there because assholes like you think Trump -who has made not a single sacrifice in his life- is more Americsn or s better American than that family, because you're a fucking bigot who conflates them with every single Muslim who doesn't anything that you jerk off to, so you can pull this same bullshit where you point to Europe like we don't already have millions of Muslims here NOW.

by Anonymousreply 165July 20, 2017 2:45 AM

American or a*

by Anonymousreply 166July 20, 2017 2:47 AM

DL needs edit feature:

who does anything*

by Anonymousreply 167July 20, 2017 2:48 AM

R165 I see Muslims on the street every day of my life and I never once thought, "terrorists!!"

And I do not think all Muslims are alike. But if 20 fucking percent of them are truly fundamentalists, and that's obviously a very low number, that's PLENTY of people waiting and ready to throw gay men to their deaths.

How a gay man can defend Islam, no matter how lovely the Khans are, is just beyond my ken.

by Anonymousreply 168July 20, 2017 2:55 AM

[quote]How a gay man can defend Islam

LOL.... There it is again. Clearly, we need an English-to-Moron dictionary. Free clue, moron: nobody on this thread has "defended Islam."

by Anonymousreply 169July 20, 2017 3:17 AM

[quote] I see Muslims on the street every day of my life and I never once thought, "terrorists!!"

I wonder how many people's last thought was "hey I found one"

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 170July 20, 2017 3:49 AM

[quote]Clearly, we need an English-to-Moron dictionary. Free clue, moron: nobody on this thread has "defended Islam."

See R165. Moron.

by Anonymousreply 171July 20, 2017 3:59 AM

[quote]See R165. Moron.

ROFL.... I read it, moron. There. Is. No. Defense. Of. Islam. In. That. Post. Thank you for confirming that a) you're a moron and b) you can't read. Man, you just love proving my point, don't you?

by Anonymousreply 172July 20, 2017 4:14 AM

[quote]I wonder how many people's last thought was "hey I found one"

Fewer people than those whose last thought was, "Damn! How did that toddler get that gun?!" Next bit of stupidity?

by Anonymousreply 173July 20, 2017 4:16 AM

[quote]Thank you for confirming that a) you're a moron and b) you can't read. Man, you just love proving my point, don't you?

And thank you for proving mine R172. Separating Muslims from Islam is absurd ignorance. Especially when 1.7 billions Muslims live in societies where Islam is the foundation of the lifestyle, mentality, culture and social structure. There is nothing else. Moron.

by Anonymousreply 174July 20, 2017 4:21 AM

[quote]And thank you for proving mine R172.

Dear heart, you don't *have* a point.

[quote]Separating Muslims from Islam is absurd ignorance.

LOL.... Speaking of ignorance. This doesn't even warrant a response other than a giggle. And it still doesn't defend your ... creative ... interpretation of R165's post. You can't deal with what he actually wrote, so you have to pretend that he wrote something he didn't. Come back when you've learned to read and when you can actually respond accordingly. Until then, we'll continue laughing at you.

[quote]Especially when 1.7 billions Muslims live in societies where Islam is the foundation of the lifestyle, mentality, culture and social structure. There is nothing else. Moron.

Thank you for confirming that you know nothing at all about people, Islam, or Muslims.

And, free clue for you, I have not written one word "defending Islam" in this post.

by Anonymousreply 175July 20, 2017 4:24 AM

But then, you were also the moron who wrote, "Including the Dem's double standard of professing 'liberalism' while promoting Muslims and 'trans'?" You really are genuinely stupid, aren't you?

by Anonymousreply 176July 20, 2017 4:25 AM

R176 We? We? You respond for yourself only, much as you truly believe otherwise. And it's you who know nothing about Islam or Muslims. But you sure do know about pejoratives and denigrating those who don't lockstep to your absurdly ignorant worldview.

by Anonymousreply 177July 20, 2017 4:32 AM

[quote]much as you truly believe otherwise.

With good reason but hey, you keep fucking that chicken if it makes you feel better.

[quote]And it's you who know nothing about Islam or Muslims.

ROFL.... Dear heart, I know the difference between a single individual and a religion. Apparently, these concepts are beyond you. Perhaps if you graduate from kindergarten someday?

[quote]But you sure do know about pejoratives

Well, duh, when you keep handing me that ammunition. I only call someone a moron when they write genuinely stupid posts. And you just keep 'em coming.

[quote]and denigrating those who don't lockstep to your absurdly ignorant worldview.

ROFL.... Oh, the irony.... Have you learned to read R165's post yet? Figured out what he actually said? Figured out that there was not one word in it that "defended Islam?" (Which you know, of course, since you can't quote anything that backs up your ... creative ... interpretation.)

by Anonymousreply 178July 20, 2017 4:38 AM

"That soldier gave his life to protect his team" apparently means "You just defended Islam!" I wonder how these guys can even dress themselves in the morning?

by Anonymousreply 179July 20, 2017 4:47 AM

R178 and many other posts in this thread:

I just trolldar'ed you and read all your posts. If I have ever seen a recipe for disaster in the next election, you have a lock on it.

Yay Trans!! Let 'em in the women's locker rooms with their feminine dicks

We must learn to love Muslims as we do ourselves...it's simply the RIGHT thing to do

BLM should be federally funded so that they can continue to spread their message to all(ok so I exaggerated that one)

George Soros is a great man! He wants only the best for the US

Seriously man, if the Democrats followed your example, the 'Pugs will get a fucking mandate.

by Anonymousreply 180July 20, 2017 4:59 AM

what IS with wingnuts and Soros? I have never heard an actual Democrat or liberal discuss Soros unless a wingnut mentions him first. But they are convinced he is the head of all progressives, the way the Koch brothers are the head of all conservatism. it just doesn't work that way on the left, sunshine, you must get out of Macedon and explore reality.

by Anonymousreply 181July 20, 2017 5:07 AM

Well you are wrong about that R181.

I post regularly on an urban site which is mostly political, and they almost universally believe that Soros's aim in funding BLM was to foment even further division between Blacks and Caucasians in the US.

by Anonymousreply 182July 20, 2017 5:35 AM

So what I find interesting, as a foreigner is the love and empathy you seem so intent on giving everybody who is a minority,and how much you speak about compassion, unless you are a fellow countryman who voted against the Democrats. Then you are evil incarnate.

After you discuss the working class as stupid and ignorant, uneducated, unable to understand what is good for them, rascist bigoted full of hate, Deplorables, you actually wonder why they didn't vote Democrat.? OK. Do you actually read what you write? When was the last time you voted for someone who called you an ignorant peasant?

by Anonymousreply 183July 20, 2017 8:56 AM

Obama's tweet to McCain has 1 million likes. Trump's 42 K. That says a lot!

by Anonymousreply 184July 20, 2017 10:28 AM

As an American and a Democrat I find it baffling and infuriating as well R183

It's particularly bad on the DL though because many of the posters grew up in Flyoverstani towns where they were tortured for being effeminate gays and, now that they've escaped and are living in NY/SF/LA still harbor a strong hatred for the people who made their lives miserable all those years. I can't say I blame them though.

The problem with the Democratic party now is the optics that seemingly confirm what you noted: Nancy Pelosi looks like what she is: a rich woman from San Francisco. And Chuck Schumer doesn't inspire "we understand the working class" either, though he is from more humble roots.

The Dems need to put someone who looks and sounds like the Deps front and center so that that 45% of Flyoverstanis who did not vote for Trump can become 51% Because that's all we need-- 51% of them.

by Anonymousreply 185July 20, 2017 12:52 PM

Conservatives don't vote Repub because Dems aren't "nice enough," r183.

by Anonymousreply 186July 20, 2017 1:01 PM

There's a whole lot of yardage between "not nice enough" and "looks down on us", R186

by Anonymousreply 187July 20, 2017 1:06 PM

Lefty Democraps never met a lunatic fringe group they didnt like & latch on to. Trans, for openers. That doesnt fly in mainstream America.

Theyre also terrific phonies, pretending to feel for the lower economic classes, when in fact, theyre all 1% ers.

by Anonymousreply 188July 20, 2017 1:09 PM

[quote]Cause if we continue down this way, that's the next time we have a real chance.

What do you mean "we"? You call yourself a foreigner in another reply here.

[quote]So what I find interesting, as a foreigner is the love and empathy you seem so intent on giving everybody who is a minority,and how much you speak about compassion, unless you are a fellow countryman who voted against the Democrats. Then you are evil incarnate.

This is pretty grotesque stuff you're spewing here, and I'm unsure of the point of it beyond a fancy way of saying "Democrats should stop caring about blacks and care about whites instead."

What galls me the most about this constant Trumpster and BernieBro talking point is that Democrats care about BOTH whites and blacks. And other races as well.

What you're angry about is that Dems don't cater to the white working class vote in order to win elections. The reason for that, as has been told to you one million times, is that the white working class started peeling away from the Democratic Party nearly a century ago, angered because the social benefits they were receiving also applied to non-whites and immigrants and women. They finally left in droves in the 1960s. They're gone. They're not coming back. They as a voting bloc have made the choice to vote for the pro-corporate, pro-rich, pro-white (and anti-every-other-race) party.

It's a waste of time to try to appeal to them beyond assuring them, as Clinton did, that there are plans for economic recovery and job growth and education and insurance and other social issues that will help them. As a whole, they don't care or will just lie about what has been said by the Dem candidate.

by Anonymousreply 189July 20, 2017 1:24 PM

I think tbh that is a large problem r188. I think for the first time for a long time We have been faced with two separate things. The Democrats have a President who they find rude , obnoxious and the crudest person in the world to represent the US.. But they also need to face up to the fact he is the least Republican President in a long time. He is not from the Religious Right. He doesn't seem to have much of a problem with Gays , but we loath him.

The second thing we have to face is the Democratic Party is one of privilege and power and when people speak of losing Democracy., what they seem to mean is Democratic Party Power. If Obama came back, declared himself King and said the US would always be of the Democratic Party, many of you would already be kneeling to the new King and wondering what to wear to the coronation.

When you speak of minorities, it is in the certain belief that they would vote for Democrats and therefore should be lovingly supported by Democrats. If it became known that many of these minorities shared more in common with the Republicans and they actually voted that way, you would hate them.

Finally what many of you have shown , with your loathing of the working class, is the superiority and snobbery of an intellectual class that has suddenly been shown to the world in all its hypocrisy. No curtain. No fallback on the poor , who left you. Just a certainty of your superiority of views. The problem is you can't hide that. It is in front of all of us.

Many of us knew it, but didn't believe it. But now we know it. You are full of hate. Full of morality. Full of telling us how guilty we are, but mostly how much better you are than the rest of us.

Good luck on 2032, the next time I think you have a chance of winning an Election if you continue this way.

by Anonymousreply 190July 20, 2017 1:36 PM

[quote]My cousin works as sort of a junior-level Robbie Mook-- she helps manage various campaigns around the country. This is her take on things: They're pissed at Hillary because she won't shut TF up and fade away and outside of deep blue areas like the west side of Manhattan and the west side of Los Angeles, she tends to be a huge liability and she comes off as a sore loser who doesn't want to let the party move on.

Except that's not happening, and if you honestly have a cousin who manages multiple campaigns nationally, she would know this. Or else she's really shit at her job.

Clinton has not herself been in the press much at all, just three speaking gigs in the last three months, only one of which was newsworthy; the other two were speaking gigs at a graduation and to a librarian conference.

What is happening is that the media keeps bringing her up, and people without critical thinking skills and/or an anti-Dem agenda say, "Oh look, she's back, why won't she shut up?" The media loves it because it plays well with both Trumpsters and BernieBros, and it also attracts liberals and Democrats who rage-read the stories and complain about it.

It's a sadly common media trick, and it's honestly irritating as all hell that so many people fall for it. It's the exact same thing as the "she didn't campaign in Pennsylvania" lie: perpetuated by the media and anti-Democratic/anti-liberal trolls who have no problem lying for years on end in hopes of eventually altering the truth.

[quote]What my cousin is reporting is that they care about bread and butter issues and what they hear back FROM DEMOCRATS is that they're sick of hearing about Russia

This sounds so transparently false that I'm kind of embarrassed for you. It also makes your agenda painfully clear. You can flip back and forth between "the media is unfair to Hillary just to get clicks" and "Hillary is ruining the DNC" all you want, but I think most people on DL are smart enough to see the kind of person you are.

Slightly related: I have noticed that the anti-Democrat brigade hasn't been bothering to clear their cookies when they go from one side to the other. Not sure why that is; maybe they've discovered it doesn't really matter.

by Anonymousreply 191July 20, 2017 1:42 PM

Every single thing in your post, r190, is a lie.

Trump is most Republican president that has even been. He is a out of touch Plutocrat who doesn't give a shit about anyone other than himself. That is Republican 101.

What happens when a Democrat is caught abusing his office? The Democrats force him from office. What happens when a Republican is caught abusing his office? The Republicans make up excuses for him.

Dems do not support minorities because they will vote for them. They support them because they truly believe that everyone is equal.

Dems do not hate the working class. They fight for the middle class through support of middle class tax cuts and unions and social security. What they do hate is ignorance and bigotry and un-American hatred of others.

If you hate being called out for being ignorant or a hypocrite or a bigot, don't be one.

by Anonymousreply 192July 20, 2017 1:43 PM

[quote]This is pretty grotesque stuff you're spewing here, and I'm unsure of the point of it beyond a fancy way of saying "Democrats should stop caring about blacks and care about whites instead."

I read R183's post a few times and don't see how anyone can think he meant what you just wrote here.

[quote]It's a waste of time to try to appeal to them beyond assuring them, as Clinton did, that there are plans for economic recovery and job growth and education and insurance and other social issues that will help them.

She didn't try to appeal to a lot of them. She didn't visit their states. As has been discussed, many times she just told people to go to her website when she was asked about her policies. Writing off a segment of the population that decided this election is asinine.

R189, you're a fucking idiot. Seriously, I'm not sure why I wasted so much time responding to your post when it's obvious you're a fucking idiot. How does that feel? Does it make you want to listen to more of what I have to say about a candidate I'm supporting?

by Anonymousreply 193July 20, 2017 1:53 PM

R192 have you actually read this thread? Most of the words I use in my comments about the working class, have been made by people on this thread about the working class. Stupid, Lazy , unable to understand, deplorables. All these things are things people have said on this thread.

As for Trump being a real Republican. Sorry that is bullshit and frankly you know it. The only candidate that actually spoke about how horrible the murder of Gay people in Orlando was last year. I remember that. Many of us do.

Twist history whichever way you want. I know what I heard. I was a believer in Hillary. I could never vote Trump, but don't sell me bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 194July 20, 2017 1:53 PM

[quote]I think tbh that is a large problem R188.

Meanwhile, out here in the real world, r188 is laughably full of shit.

[quote]I think for the first time for a long time We have been faced with two separate things. The Democrats have a President who they find rude , obnoxious and the crudest person in the world to represent the US.. But they also need to face up to the fact he is the least Republican President in a long time.

Oh, bullshit. There is no space between Trump and the rest of the Republican Party. He is absolutely espousing everything that they stand for, from the environment to taxes to health care to federal judge nominees to immigration to the people he has chosen to fill his cabinet. He is governing as an extreme right-winger.

[quote]The second thing we have to face is the Democratic Party is one of privilege and power

LOL.... Man, you really *don't* live in the real world, do you?

[quote]and when people speak of losing Democracy., what they seem to mean is Democratic Party Power.

Funny how you fixate on "Democratic Party Power" at a time when the Republican Party has both Houses of Congress, the Presidency, five conservative Supreme Court Justices, and a majority of state governorships and state legislatures.

[quote]If Obama came back, declared himself King and said the US would always be of the Democratic Party, many of you would already be kneeling to the new King and wondering what to wear to the coronation.

None of us would, of course. You're making up shit because you cannot actually debate the real issues.

[quote]When you speak of minorities, it is in the certain belief that they would vote for Democrats and therefore should be lovingly supported by Democrats.

And, again, this is total bullshit. If you have a problem with any of the Democratic positions, let's hear them.

[quote]If it became known that many of these minorities shared more in common with the Republicans and they actually voted that way, you would hate them.

ROFL.... Wow.... this is just word-salad-crazy. You're a monkey throwing its feces because you don't have anything else.

[quote]Finally what many of you have shown , with your loathing of the working class, is the superiority and snobbery of an intellectual class that has suddenly been shown to the world in all its hypocrisy. No curtain. No fallback on the poor , who left you. Just a certainty of your superiority of views. The problem is you can't hide that. It is in front of all of us.

Meanwhile, out here in the real world, none of that is true.

[quote]Many of us knew it, but didn't believe it. But now we know it. You are full of hate. Full of morality. Full of telling us how guilty we are, but mostly how much better you are than the rest of us. Good luck on 2032, the next time I think you have a chance of winning an Election if you continue this way.

Moron, considering the disaster that Republican rule has been, we're looking at 2018 and 2020 and doing just fine.

by Anonymousreply 195July 20, 2017 1:54 PM

[quote]have you actually read this thread?

Yup, but clearly you have not.

[quote]Most of the words I use in my comments about the working class, have been made by people on this thread about the working class. Stupid, Lazy , unable to understand, deplorables. All these things are things people have said on this thread.

Moron, any of those comments were said specifically about "deplorables." "Deplorables" are not the same thing as "the working class." You are pretending that they are because you have an agenda and because you cannot engage with what people actually write.

[quote]As for Trump being a real Republican. Sorry that is bullshit and frankly you know it.

LOL.... Sorry, cupcake, but the only one bullshitting here is you. You can't even find an issue where Trump is not toeing the Republican Party line. Hell, he's even worse than many Republicans.

[quote]The only candidate that actually spoke about how horrible the murder of Gay people in Orlando was last year. I remember that. Many of us do.

Apparently, you don't, since every single candidate said it was "horrible."

[quote]Twist history whichever way you want. I know what I heard. I was a believer in Hillary. I could never vote Trump, but don't sell me bullshit.

ROFL.... Oh, sure ... you were a "believer in Hillary." We believe that about as much as we do the rest of the bullshit you're spewing.

by Anonymousreply 196July 20, 2017 1:57 PM

Hillary is still all over Twitter R191. And the media. And every time her name comes up, candidates in light blue states and purple states cringe because there are enough people who loathe her with the heat of a thousand suns, that it creates a problem.

And not everyone in Flyoverstan voted for Trump. There are still a whole lot of Democrats there, Hillary won close to 50% of the vote in those swing states. So I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to believe that they exist and that they want to know what the Congressional candidate is going to do to create jobs and why that's more important to them than Russia, Russia, Russia.

PS: Stop seeing ghosts behind every poster whose position you disagree with. This ain't North Korea.

by Anonymousreply 197July 20, 2017 1:58 PM

[quote]Lefty Democraps never met a lunatic fringe group they didnt like & latch on to. Trans, for openers. That doesnt fly in mainstream America.

Man, what is it with you people and transgendered individuals. The obsession is both stupid and insane. And sorry to burst your bubble but "mainstream America" is just fine with transgendered folks and supports their issues.

[quote]Theyre also terrific phonies, pretending to feel for the lower economic classes, when in fact, theyre all 1% ers.

LOL... You're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

by Anonymousreply 198July 20, 2017 1:59 PM

R194, The people who voted for Trump are those things, not the "working class" as a whole. And here in American we call that the Middle Class.

And you want to hold up Trump's goodwill toward gay people as evidence of his non-Republicanism??? Plenty of Republicans mouthed their condolences toward gay people in the aftermath of the tragedy. And then they all went right back to working to take rights away from gay people...just like Trump. If anything his immediate and later response to the tragedy puts him deadset in the center of the Republican Party.

The only one trying to twist history is you.

by Anonymousreply 199July 20, 2017 1:59 PM

[quote]Hillary is still all over Twitter R191.

LOL.... Wow, you're really desperate, aren't you? What, is she supposed to delete her Twitter account because you might get triggered by something she writes? And "all over Twitter?" Really? Because when I looked at her Twitter feed, she's averaging about one post a day. Is that really your definition of "all over Twitter?"

[quote]And the media. And every time her name comes up, candidates in light blue states and purple states cringe because there are enough people who loathe her with the heat of a thousand suns, that it creates a problem.

Too bad you can't actually point to any "problem" that Hillary's presence on Twitter causes, mostly because such "problems" exist only in your fevered imagination.

And not everyone in Flyoverstan voted for Trump. There are still a whole lot of Democrats there, Hillary won close to 50% of the vote in those swing states. So I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to believe that they exist and that they want to know what the Congressional candidate is going to do to create jobs and why that's more important to them than Russia, Russia, Russia.

PS: Stop seeing ghosts behind every poster whose position you disagree with. This ain't North Korea.

by Anonymousreply 200July 20, 2017 2:02 PM

[quote]And you want to hold up Trump's goodwill toward gay people as evidence of his non-Republicanism???

And it's not even true, since Trump weakened the non-discrimination executive order that Obama had previously issued and Trump is appointing federal judges who are actively anti-gay, including his nominee to the Supreme Court, not to mention his VP pick. The notion that Trump is somehow gay-friendly just doesn't fly.

by Anonymousreply 201July 20, 2017 2:04 PM

R198 Cunt of the highest order.

Lefty Democrap politicians are all rich, like that loony twat, Pelosi. Shes the biggest phony in the pack.

I used trans as an example of the lunatic fringe, because they are. And NOOOOO, mainstream America is not supportive of their issues. Keep fucking that chicken, Laverne Cocks.

by Anonymousreply 202July 20, 2017 2:06 PM

[quote]what IS with wingnuts and Soros?

It is baffling, isn't it? Somehow, they have him set up as the root of all evil and seem to assume that all progressive politicians and organizations are turning to him for instructions on everything they do. He only wishes he had that much power!

by Anonymousreply 203July 20, 2017 2:06 PM

[quote]I just trolldar'ed you and read all your posts. If I have ever seen a recipe for disaster in the next election, you have a lock on it.

Uh-huh, we'll see how that works out. Want to put some money on it?

[quote]Yay Trans!! Let 'em in the women's locker rooms with their feminine dicks

Since the majority of women support that, I'm not sure what point you think you're making.

[quote]We must learn to love Muslims as we do ourselves...it's simply the RIGHT thing to do

It's certainly the Christian thing to do. Did you have a point to make? Oh, and as usual, you did *exactly* what those like you've been accused of: you couldn't handle what was actually written, so you had to make up shit that wasn't. What is it with you morons and your inability to *read*?

[quote]BLM should be federally funded so that they can continue to spread their message to all(ok so I exaggerated that one)

ROFL.... Dear heart, it was a lie, not an "exaggeration."

[quote]George Soros is a great man! He wants only the best for the US

Speaking of lies.....

[quote]Seriously man, if the Democrats followed your example, the 'Pugs will get a fucking mandate.

Seriously, man, you're full of shit. The fact that you had to lie so blatantly to make your point tells us that it really wasn't a particularly good point.

by Anonymousreply 204July 20, 2017 2:09 PM

[quote]R198 Cunt of the highest order.

Nope, no misogyny there, nossir. I love how you can't handle what is actually written so you have to attack instead, and rather pathetically at that.

[quote]Lefty Democrap politicians are all rich, like that loony twat, Pelosi. Shes the biggest phony in the pack.

Um, no, moron, that's not even remotely close to being true. And what's hilarious, of course, is that if you were really concerned about wealthy politicians, you'd be looking at Republicans first. You aren't concerned, of course; you're just making up shit and throwing it at the wall and hoping that something sticks.

[quote]I used trans as an example of the lunatic fringe, because they are. And NOOOOO, mainstream America is not supportive of their issues. Keep fucking that chicken, Laverne Cock

ROFL.... Sorry, but the polls (and reality) disagree with you. Sucks to be you but that's the way it is. And it's getting worse, as support for transgendered rights, issues, and people has increased steadily over the past decade. You're on the wrong side of history.

by Anonymousreply 205July 20, 2017 2:13 PM

R193, you're just repeating the same things the other trolls/shills said upthread, all of which has been debunked.

And you must be new to DL if you think my feelings are going to be hurt because some Republican or BernieBro called me a "fucking idiot." I've gotten things more important than you free in participating boxes of cereal. You're nothing.

by Anonymousreply 206July 20, 2017 3:10 PM

[quote]I think we're going to have to start our own movement within the party to influence it.

What? You BernieBros are already trying this. What a strange thing to say.

But then you think Clinton never talked about her policies in speeches, at rallies or at the debates, and that all she did was say "go to my website" over and over again, so it's ironically one of the least strange things you've said.

by Anonymousreply 207July 20, 2017 3:13 PM

[quote]And you must be new to DL if you think my feelings are going to be hurt because some Republican or BernieBro called me a "fucking idiot."

But don't you see, you're supposed to be devastated, crying yourself to sleep.

I also love how some of these idiots say stupid shit like, "See? It's attitudes like yours that cause people to vote Republican!" Well, except that I'm not a politician, I'm not a party official, I'm not a widely-read influencer or pundit. I'm an anonymous poster on a website that's at position 34,000 in the website rankings, where maybe a few hundred people at most will read my post and few to none will actually give a shit about what I write. Thank you for deciding that I have the power to influence elections but I respectfully decline.

And if you really are influenced to vote Republican because I called you a moron, then hey, you really *are* a moron!

by Anonymousreply 208July 20, 2017 3:32 PM

Too many Democrats (and DataLoungers) come across as "I care deeply about working-class voters in the heartland, even though I live in New York (or California) and have never in my life set foot on a farm or in a factory. I want to help the people who are struggling in small-town Middle America, even though I think they're all fat, stupid and ugly and have terrible taste in food, clothes, and entertainment. I don't actually want to be anywhere near them, but I care very deeply about them and hope they'll vote for me." I think Hillary cared about working-class voters, but her failure to campaign at all (or barely at all) in states like Wisconsin and Michigan and her general avoidance of personal, one-on-one campaigning made it seem as if she was willing to give speeches about how much she cared about the working class, as long as she didn't have to interact with them. We need to find Democratic leaders who can interact with voters in Middle America in a way that appears genuine and authentic -- not coastal elites who jet into the Midwest for a quick photo-op.

by Anonymousreply 209July 20, 2017 3:38 PM

I dunno, R209. I'm in a small blue oasis in Kansas and I have never heard a Dem here complain that Clinton didn't connect with us; the BernieBros say that, but the actual Democrats don't.

I also have to say I haven't seen anyone from Wisconsin or Michigan say, "I voted for Trump because Clinton didn't come here often enough." Were there op-eds in those states calling her out? Honest question. I never see anyone link to anything like that so I question how important it was.

by Anonymousreply 210July 20, 2017 3:41 PM

R205 Spouts off bullshit, provided no links, no evidence. Get back to that drive thru window before you hurt yourself.

Its the phony lefty Democraps that pretend to so desperately feel for the poor. Princess Pelosi worst of the bunch.

by Anonymousreply 211July 20, 2017 3:54 PM

R183: “I’ll tell you what’s at the bottom of it,” he said. “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

That was President Johnson almost 60 years ago. A quote just as valid now.

Of the top ten states that are the most DEPENDENT on federal aid, almost all of them are solidly red, Repulican states. Do you know why that is? Because these white, working class people do not want to be a part of party that doesn't coddle their beliefs of supremacy. They don't want to be associated with a party that believes ALL working class people should have a voice and that your skin color doesn't make you special. You ignore the people in this thread who claim minorities are looking for special rights when that's a fucking lie. That's how low they've sunk. They think simply wanting to be treated EQUALLY, is demanding special rights.

People like you and others lie to yourselves about the types of people you defend. You can't face the fact that you can't call them anything other than ignorant when even Helen Keller can see the GOP's policies are not for them and all of the nominees in recent history have been wealthy white males who were born into wealth or into some prominent family, yet these white, working class people keep voting consistently for these men who have no fucking idea what it is to struggle. Obama did know what it was to struggle and attempted to push through policies, but the GOP wouldn't have it.

You can't actually accept the reason they keep voting GOP when we can all see why they do it. they do in fact have delusions of grandeur when it comes to their place in this country that we all came to at one point or another.

by Anonymousreply 212July 20, 2017 4:06 PM

[quote]spouts off bullshit, provided no links, no evidence. Get back to that drive thru window before you hurt yourself.

LOL.... Just following your stellar example. Sorry to burst your bubble but the overwhelming majority of people in the United States support transgender rights. Sucks to be you.

[quote]Its the phony lefty Democraps that pretend to so desperately feel for the poor. Princess Pelosi worst of the bunch.

Uh-huh, right. Well, let's just look at the policies each party supports, shall we? Oh, dear ... another talking point of yours completely blown out by reality. It *really* sucks to be you.

by Anonymousreply 213July 20, 2017 4:13 PM

R188 makes 2 very solid points.

If Earth were invaded by aliens, the Dems would take up their cause.

by Anonymousreply 214July 20, 2017 4:16 PM

The overwhelming majority of people in the Trans & Queer center at Evergreen College support transgender rights.

by Anonymousreply 215July 20, 2017 4:19 PM

LIberals will win again if they stop writing Beyonce, Harry styles and harambe on the ballot

by Anonymousreply 216July 20, 2017 4:20 PM

LOL.... Sorry, r215, but, as always, you're wrong, which is why you oh so very carefully will not actually look at the available data. The overwhelming majority of people in the United States support transgender rights. Sucks to be you.

by Anonymousreply 217July 20, 2017 4:21 PM

And Target lost the customers to prove it. Riiiight.

by Anonymousreply 218July 20, 2017 4:28 PM

[quote] If Earth were invaded by aliens, the Dems would take up their cause.

As long as those "aliens" had white skin and money Republican politicians would fight tooth an nail for them, and as long as they had white skin Republican voters would support that fight.

And yes anyone who is not a wealthy straight white male is an interloper. He/she is the equivalent of an alien from another planet. They don't belong here. They are not equal and those silly Democrats just keep taking on their various causes.

by Anonymousreply 219July 20, 2017 4:31 PM

R219 Identity politics at its finest. And you wonder why you keep losing.

You stated all the leftist idiocy in a nutshell.

by Anonymousreply 220July 20, 2017 4:34 PM

[quote]And Target lost the customers to prove it. Riiiight.

Moron, Target has been losing sales for quite some time, none of which has anything to do with transgender policies. If you have to make up shit to make your point, it probably isn't a very good point.

by Anonymousreply 221July 20, 2017 4:44 PM

[quote]R219 Identity politics at its finest. And you wonder why you keep losing.

And yet Republicans have been practicing "identity politics" for over 50 years and it doesn't seem to be harming them. Weird how that works.

by Anonymousreply 222July 20, 2017 4:44 PM

[R219] Identity politics at its finest. And you wonder why you keep losing. You stated all the leftist idiocy in a nutshell.

I beg your pardon. Middle and working class whites who faithfully vote for politicians and policies that destroy them because of their belief in their supreme white "identity is identity politics at its finest." You will find nothing more idiotic than that.

by Anonymousreply 223July 20, 2017 4:45 PM

[quote] [[R219]] Identity politics at its finest. And you wonder why you keep losing. You stated all the leftist idiocy in a nutshell.

I beg your pardon. Middle and working class whites who faithfully vote for politicians and policies that destroy them because of their belief in their supreme white "identity is identity politics at its finest." You will find nothing more idiotic than that.

by Anonymousreply 224July 20, 2017 4:46 PM

It's so funny watching idiots keep saying "this is why you keep losing".

Idiot, the GOP COULDN'T WIN if we went on actual votes. Do you understand that an unlikeable woman like Hillary still managed to win based on actual votes and not some bullshit electoral college? She got more friggin votes than Obama did in 2012. And do you not understand that the GOP CAN'T win at the state level unless they gerrymander to death? If this country was a true Democracy, you'd probably never see a Repub president again. They haven't won the popular vote in a while.

"This is why Trump won" is what an idiot says when Bernie coming in SECOND with primary votes on the Dem side, got almost as many votes Trump the front runner did on the Rep side.

More people identify with Dem policies than knuckle-dragging Rep policies. People with no money who get saved by Obamacare and still vote GOP are fucking idiots. Pretending they're not and droning on about "this is why..." because you think such ignorance should be coddled and thinking you can conflate that with outright hate for minorities, shows you lack depth in your thinking. Because you don't know the difference between being specific in why you call one ignorant vs just attacking people for their race/ ethnicity/religion without knowing anything else about them including their politics.

by Anonymousreply 225July 20, 2017 5:08 PM

R225, how do you propose we win the next Presidential election? A lot of us here are offering our own analysis of what went wrong in 2016 and trying to come up with ways to win in 2020. Unless I missed it, a quick look at your posts shows you offered no ideas on how to do that. There's a lot of ranting and raving about why we're all wrong, but no ideas on how to win again.

by Anonymousreply 226July 20, 2017 5:16 PM

R226, you can't win over people who wallow in ignorance and the solution is not to cater to that ignorance. You propose your platform which caters primarily to working people and make clear that working people come in every damned shade and we're all in the same side. You make clear that people like Trump could never understand what it is to struggle or sacrifice because people like him and his business practices are the reason working people have had to struggle and sacrifice.

If their issue is minorities and believing they're getting "special rights" without being able to point to actual Dem bills reflecting that bullshit, then they have no place in the party.

White, working class people who witness what the current GOP is doing to healthcare and still vote GOP are simply list. You can't get through to them. Their hate for others supersedes common sense.

by Anonymousreply 227July 20, 2017 5:24 PM

On the same side*

by Anonymousreply 228July 20, 2017 5:24 PM

[quote]And do you not understand that the GOP CAN'T win at the state level unless they gerrymander to death?

Gerrymandering has nothing to do with the ultimate state-level office, governor, and Republicans hold a 2:1 margin over Democrats today.

by Anonymousreply 229July 20, 2017 5:25 PM

LOST not "list"

It's always the autocorrect

by Anonymousreply 230July 20, 2017 5:26 PM

Since Democrats won the majority of the vote in 2016, including gaining seats in the House and the Senate and winning the popular vote for President, I don't think it's the policies that are at fault. There are quite a few reasons that Trump won, many of which are tied to Hillary herself.

by Anonymousreply 231July 20, 2017 5:28 PM

R229, in a lot of cases, you can't change stupid. Brownback completely fucked over KS and those idiots will continue to vote Republican.

Even NYS doesn't just go with Democrats

by Anonymousreply 232July 20, 2017 5:28 PM

R227, are you saying we need to propose a new platform or stick to the one we're with?

by Anonymousreply 233July 20, 2017 5:35 PM

As far as I know, nobody has poked any holes in the Democratic Party platform, nor shown why it was a major factor in the election. Unless there are specific problems, I'd go with what we have.

I'm not sure it matters; 2018 will be a referendum on Trump and on Congressional Republicans, just as all midterm elections. Things are not looking good for Republicans right now, although that could change if they ever get their shit together. Their policies are horribly unpopular and, so far, this has been the least productive administration in decades.

by Anonymousreply 234July 20, 2017 5:42 PM
Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 235July 20, 2017 5:43 PM
Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 236July 20, 2017 5:44 PM

Alex Jones hates French homosexuals?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 237July 20, 2017 5:45 PM

Man, what is it with these morons and YouTube videos, as though those are convincing of, well, anything? Basically, they all come across as unhinged.

by Anonymousreply 238July 20, 2017 5:48 PM

R233, be specific in what changes within the platform should/shouldn't be made. To use the general "platform," is too broad.

And R180 is pretty much the biggest idiot on here because he can't actually debate what people write, so that's why he engages in hyperbole. He's not bright enough to get it. You're so simplistic in your interpretations because you can't handle a world where hundreds of millions don't all fit into your simplistic, nefarious little caricature of all of them, but you take it upon yourself to despicably conclude we defend that caricature you've created in your warped mind.

by Anonymousreply 239July 20, 2017 5:58 PM

"Sweetheart, Precious, LOL, ROFL" Trans Troll @ all-over-this-thread, the majority of females when confronted by a strange male's genitalia will go into fight or flight mode.

Yet you think that the Democrats are going to win in 2018, when suddenly women's locker rooms become open to men, most with male genitals intact?

Many parents have already been seduced by Big Pharma, but there is a natural aversion to cutting off their kids' body parts amongst breeders. As this Trans Lunacy progresses, and more and more "average" Americans are exposed to it, there will be a backlash. And the Democrats will take the fall, as they should because they are the asses pushing it.

by Anonymousreply 240July 20, 2017 5:59 PM

R227/R239, what changes to the platform would you make and what would you keep?

by Anonymousreply 241July 20, 2017 6:08 PM

[quote]"Sweetheart, Precious, LOL, ROFL" Trans Troll @ all-over-this-thread, the majority of females when confronted by a strange male's genitalia will go into fight or flight mode.

How kind of you to decide for women how they should react. I'm sure that they will be ever so grateful when they find out that you've already decided this issue for them.

[quote]Yet you think that the Democrats are going to win in 2018, when suddenly women's locker rooms become open to men, most with male genitals intact?

Yup, since that's what the polls say, and the support is steadily increasing.

[quote]Many parents have already been seduced by Big Pharma, but there is a natural aversion to cutting off their kids' body parts amongst breeders.

None of which is relevant to this discussion since the Democratic Party has no position on this.

[quote]As this Trans Lunacy progresses, and more and more "average" Americans are exposed to it, there will be a backlash.

People like you have been promising this for years. And during those years, support for transgendered rights, issues, and individuals has steadily increased. And that support is dramatically higher in younger people, which means that it's going to continue to grow overall. You got nothing.

[quote]And the Democrats will take the fall, as they should because they are the asses pushing it.

Uh-huh. You just keep right on telling yourself that.

by Anonymousreply 242July 20, 2017 6:20 PM

R242 is insane.

by Anonymousreply 243July 20, 2017 6:23 PM

^^r242.. This Scoldy Troll needs to get a full time job.

Too much time to cut & paste, on every thread.

by Anonymousreply 244July 20, 2017 6:24 PM

R243 is insane.

Gee, this debate is easy. I just have to make stupid statements!

by Anonymousreply 245July 20, 2017 6:25 PM

I have one, thanks, R244, but I'm ever so touched by your concern for me. Interesting how you guys just keep on attacking while refusing to deal with what I actually post.

by Anonymousreply 246July 20, 2017 6:26 PM

I love when these types of threads degenerate into several posters calling each other "insane" over and over again and very quickly, you realize you can't tell which one is which.

by Anonymousreply 247July 20, 2017 6:27 PM

Usually, I go with the one making insane statements, like:

[quote]I just trolldar'ed you and read all your posts. If I have ever seen a recipe for disaster in the next election, you have a lock on it.

[quote]Yay Trans!! Let 'em in the women's locker rooms with their feminine dicks

[quote]We must learn to love Muslims as we do ourselves...it's simply the RIGHT thing to do

[quote]BLM should be federally funded so that they can continue to spread their message to all(ok so I exaggerated that one)

[quote]George Soros is a great man! He wants only the best for the US

[quote]Seriously man, if the Democrats followed your example, the 'Pugs will get a fucking mandate.

by Anonymousreply 248July 20, 2017 6:29 PM

I'm a lifelong Republican, but I don't see the point in being a stupid, bigoted bitch handle for corporate predators who want to flush my well being down the toilet and ravage the world with unnecessary wars and unconditional greed.

I say this as a lifelong Republican. I really care about my fellow conservatives when I host grease fires for them.

by Anonymousreply 249July 20, 2017 6:33 PM

[quote] ^^[R242].. This Scoldy Troll needs to get a full time job. Too much time to cut & paste, on every thread.

Yes because it takes hours and hours and hours to cut and paste all the idiotic nonsense (with which you spam the board) and deliver an intelligence response. You've got too much time to post right wing bigoted bullshit. And yes anyone and everyone who disagrees with your bigot bullshit is a troll.

by Anonymousreply 250July 20, 2017 6:41 PM

Well, it's not like they can actually defend what they write, R250. The facts aren't on their side, so all they can do is the lame attacks. It's amusing, actually, and oh so predictable.

by Anonymousreply 251July 20, 2017 6:44 PM

"...And deliver an intelligence response."

The jokes often write themselves.

by Anonymousreply 252July 20, 2017 6:52 PM

Yes, if you mean genuinely pathetic jokes about typos, r252. Sadly for you, nobody ever laughs at those.

by Anonymousreply 253July 20, 2017 6:56 PM

[quote]Liberals can win again when they stop they muslim and tranny ass kissing

I do think the Trans agenda turned a lot of center conservatives off from voting. They didn't vote for Trump either, but they just stayed home thinking Hillary was going to win anyway.

by Anonymousreply 254July 20, 2017 6:57 PM

I think you don't have the data to back that up, R254. Even in North Carolina, which was the epicenter for that fuss in the last election, the Democratic gubernatorial candidate won, and he ran on a campaign opposing the law.

by Anonymousreply 255July 20, 2017 6:59 PM

"Gerrymandering has nothing to do with the ultimate state-level office, governor, and Republicans hold a 2:1 margin over Democrats today."

Except that Republican governors are predominantly in the less-populous states, so most governorship votes in total go to Democratic candidates.

by Anonymousreply 256July 20, 2017 7:22 PM

The only thing more annoying than PC-liberals are the Rascist Cons who would kick their children off healthcare to feed the rich more money. Oh, and the fake Christians who lick Tramp's asshole.

by Anonymousreply 257July 20, 2017 7:25 PM

When the shit hits the fan: when naked women are confronted by naked men in their locker rooms as they attempt to change their naked 4-year-old. When some "queer" blue-haired SJW gets creeped on through the crack in the bathroom door as she changes her tampon, then you will see the backlash.

Gods, Guns & Gays (& Abortion) was the Republican platform until relatively recently, and it worked.

Now, since the T has taken over LGBT, and will, very soon, turn off the majority of US women once they have a personal experience with a demented she-man, the GOP will "the perverts are coming for our women and children" in their election arsenal -- think "the illegal immigrant killed the beautiful blonde girl in leftist San Francisco" x 1000 -- and for once, they will be right.

by Anonymousreply 258July 20, 2017 7:42 PM

Republicans are infinitely more annoying. And dangerous. And corrupt. And Incompetent.

It's no contest.

Anyone NOT voting for Democrats is an idiot at this point.

by Anonymousreply 259July 20, 2017 7:57 PM

You're a genius R259!!!

That can be the Dems slogan in 2018: [bold] Anyone NOT voting for Democrats is an idiot at this point. [/bold]

We can even record a swishy gay man for the voiceover

Are you free? Willing to work non-union?

by Anonymousreply 260July 20, 2017 8:15 PM

[quote] ... not some bullshit electoral college

Obama won same way.

by Anonymousreply 261July 20, 2017 11:57 PM

actually, the one and only thing we might agree on R260, is never, ever, ever analyze the electorate in public. Both Obama and Hillary were right in what they actually said about clinging to guns and about deplorables, but it never, ever works. The American People are sovereign, and like all sovereigns they demand and need flattery. They are ALWAYS by definition righteous, virtuous, wise, and glorious. The answer to every question about people who don't support you is: I'm fighting for every vote and know that everyone will see that we are on their side and the other guys are not!

hopefully Elizabeth Warren gets this and won't make this stupid mistake on her way to the nomination.

by Anonymousreply 262July 21, 2017 12:54 AM

Remember when Soros invented black people, then enslaved them, then freed them, then created segregation and Jim Crow, and then told them to resent white cops shooting them? That was weird, wasn't it?

by Anonymousreply 263July 21, 2017 1:17 AM

Elizabeth Warren and Chelsea Clinton ticket?

by Anonymousreply 264July 21, 2017 1:56 AM

Yeah, and apparently Soros was responsible for the Holocaust, too, R263, not to mention refugees of all kinds and the destruction of governments all over the world. And let's not forget his personal attempt to commit "gay genocide" by supporting transgendered people. It's amazing how much he has accomplished.

by Anonymousreply 265July 21, 2017 2:08 AM

[quote]When the shit hits the fan: when naked women are confronted by naked men in their locker rooms as they attempt to change their naked 4-year-old. When some "queer" blue-haired SJW gets creeped on through the crack in the bathroom door as she changes her tampon, then you will see the backlash.

LOL.... I just love you obsessive drama queens. Actually, laws allowing this have been on the books for some time and yet, somehow, that "backlash" has never materialized. People like you have been loudly proclaiming that "backlash" for at least the past two years here. When, exactly, should we expect to see it?

by Anonymousreply 266July 21, 2017 2:11 AM

R260, I stated a simple fact.

I didn't say it should be a slogan or rallying cry.

But it is the absolute truth.

by Anonymousreply 267July 21, 2017 2:15 AM

I am just glad that these trans-obsessive loons finally feel comfortable enough to have outed themselves as the Fox-News watching, Trump-voting republicans that I always knew they were....

by Anonymousreply 268July 21, 2017 3:03 AM

Got to stop the SJW culture, Islam-enabling and a whole host of other stuff.

by Anonymousreply 269July 21, 2017 11:14 AM

The problem with this article is that the writer can't take his own advice.

Thinking of people as deplorables is not the way to get votes. Hillary was wrong in thinking that and so is this guy. You may not agree with people, but that doesn't make them deplorable. The first step to win anyone back is to stop denigrating people.

by Anonymousreply 270July 21, 2017 2:04 PM

She didn't call people who didn't agree with her deplorables. She called klansmen and neo-Nazis deplorables. In a rational world everyone would agree with that. But with Fox and Breitbart misrepresenting what she says and said for 30 years we are far from a rational world when it comes to Clinton.

by Anonymousreply 271July 21, 2017 2:12 PM

"The first step to win anyone back is to stop denigrating people."

So then how the fuck did Trump win? Because all he did was insult people. Seemed to work for him.

by Anonymousreply 272July 21, 2017 2:15 PM

In which election did Obama lose the popular vote but win in the Electoral College, r261?

by Anonymousreply 273July 21, 2017 2:16 PM

[quote]Because all he did was insult people.

Did he insult segments of the electorate, though? Maybe I blocked it out but I don't remember him doing that.

by Anonymousreply 274July 21, 2017 2:17 PM

[quote]So then how the fuck did Trump win? Because all he did was insult people.

Because he was tapping into the fears that Americans had. We've been over this several times. For example, people saw what was happening in Europe and were scared shitless. Hillary stands up and says she's going to increase immigration and ka-ching that was another vote for Trump. He could say whatever he wanted to because he was the anti-Hillary.

[quote]She didn't call people who didn't agree with her deplorables. She called klansmen and neo-Nazis deplorables.

It didn't matter. People saw her hanging with Black Lives Matter, rich people and Hollywood stars and people made the assumption that if she thought certain segments of the population were deplorable, then she would think that of them. Additionally, even if there were klansmen and neo-Nazis, Hillary would still have to govern them.

Hillary ran a tone deaf, shitty campaign.

by Anonymousreply 275July 21, 2017 2:20 PM

Just to add to what I said above, Hillary's rhetoric targeted PEOPLE rather than their behavior. Rather than calling people deplorable, she should have commented that their BEHAVIOR was deplorable.

Hillary of all people knew the power of a soundbyte. And she let herself fall into wrong soundbyte after wrong soundbyte.

by Anonymousreply 276July 21, 2017 2:24 PM

Most working class people are not 'liberal'.

The Democrats are the party of middle and elite class liberals, and minority working class people who are mostly not liberal, but vote Democrat due to that party's record on equality legislation etc. 'Liberal' comes with higher education, being secular, living in big cities, having money, having opportunities to travel, having plenty of spare time to spend reading about 'oppression'. The average working class black and latino person is likely to be anti-gay, anti-lesbian, anti-Trans, i.e. not 'liberal' at all.

by Anonymousreply 277July 21, 2017 2:26 PM

Hillary calling a certain segment of people "deplorable" didn't make them suddenly want to vote for Trump. They were all full-throated supporters of his to begin with. They were NEVER going to vote for her. And she was totally right.

"People saw her hanging with Black Lives Matter, rich people and Hollywood stars and people made the assumption that if she thought certain segments of the population were deplorable, then she would think that of them. "

Oh really? Sounds like you've been doing some fierce polling. Tell us about your methodologies.

by Anonymousreply 278July 21, 2017 2:32 PM

"Rather than calling people deplorable, she should have commented that their BEHAVIOR was deplorable."

So disingenuous. You know as well as I do that Fox and Breitbart would never make that distinction.

by Anonymousreply 279July 21, 2017 2:32 PM

[quote]So disingenuous. You know as well as I do that Fox and Breitbart would never make that distinction.

Fox and Breitbart weren't running for POTUS. As I said upthread, Hillary knew the advantage of a soundbyte. In this case, she calculated incorrectly. She thought she would get people on her side thinking "Yeah, Trump's a deplorable." She didn't realize people were thinking much bigger about employment, security and healthcare.

by Anonymousreply 280July 21, 2017 2:37 PM

So that bit about "She should have said their actions are deplorable" was complete and utter bullshit? Got it.

by Anonymousreply 281July 21, 2017 2:39 PM

[quote]Did he insult segments of the electorate, though?

You mean besides Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, blacks, homosexuals, women, former prisoners of war, the disabled, reporters and Californians?

Not that much, no.

by Anonymousreply 282July 21, 2017 2:54 PM

R272 How about, "stop denigrating the majority who turn out to vote in every damn election?

by Anonymousreply 283July 21, 2017 3:05 PM

He denigrated a lot of people and he still won.

by Anonymousreply 284July 21, 2017 3:38 PM

Anyone who says anything even remotely resembling, "And that's why Clinton lost!" or "And that's why Trump won!" is full of shit. Whoever says that *always* has an agenda, usually, "This is what I want so I'm going to pretend that Clinton lost because it didn't happen." There are several reasons that Clinton lost, some of them caused by her, some of them because of who she is, some of them she had no control over, some of them complete bullshit.

The 2018 election will be a referendum on Trump and on the Republican Congress. Right now, both of these entities are digging themselves a deep grave, and things don't look much better for the rest of the year. Given that, there is very little that Democrats need to do other than to continue to point out the insane policies that Trump and his fellow Republicans are trying to foist on us. As the saying goes, "Never interrupt your opponent when he is setting himself on fire."

by Anonymousreply 285July 21, 2017 3:49 PM

You just keep telling yourself that r285.

"A Hillary Clinton win is a mandate against the GOP"

by Anonymousreply 286July 21, 2017 3:58 PM

Telling myself what, R286? That there were multiple reasons that Clinton lost? That some of them caused by her, some of them because of who she is, some of them she had no control over, some of them complete bullshit? That the 2018 election will be a referendum on Trump and on the Republican Congress? That, right now, both of these entities are digging themselves a deep grave, and things don't look much better for the rest of the year?

Since these all happen to be true, I'll be happy to "keep telling myself that."

by Anonymousreply 287July 21, 2017 4:01 PM

Right, it's DEMOCRATS who are annoying.

by Anonymousreply 288July 21, 2017 4:40 PM

In other words, just ignore that Trump won specifically by engaging in hysteria and fear-mongering. Pretend that the people who supported him, didn't do so the moment he engaged in scapegoating.

Pretend that only white, working class people are worthy of being treated like they matter and fuck anyone else who works and has to listen to a repulsive slimeball denigrate their people while they pay taxes (and he clearly doesn't) in places like NYC so that his family and properties are protected.

by Anonymousreply 289July 21, 2017 4:46 PM

[quote]Given that, there is very little that Democrats need to do other than to continue to point out the insane policies that Trump and his fellow Republicans are trying to foist on us. As the saying goes, "Never interrupt your opponent when he is setting himself on fire."

This is why I don't get worked up over Trump when talking to my friends. Trump and the GOP are doing a fine job of creating a mess for themselves.

by Anonymousreply 290July 21, 2017 5:27 PM

John Podesta posting at R285

[quote] Given that, there is very little that Democrats need to do other than to continue to point out the insane policies that Trump and his fellow Republicans are trying to foist on us. As the saying goes, "Never interrupt your opponent when he is setting himself on fire."

Those two sentences more or less sum up Clinton's campaign strategy for 2016-- let Trump self-implode.

Didn't work.

The Deps don't see it the way you do, and the people who see him as self-immolating are already voting for the Democratic candidate.

Question is how to reach all those other people

by Anonymousreply 291July 21, 2017 5:47 PM

You can't reach the willfully ignorant. We are all screwed.

by Anonymousreply 292July 21, 2017 6:00 PM

[quote]Those two sentences more or less sum up Clinton's campaign strategy for 2016-- let Trump self-implode.

Except that that doesn't even close to "summing up Clinton's campaign strategy for 2016," so your premise is false.

[quote]The Deps don't see it the way you do, and the people who see him as self-immolating are already voting for the Democratic candidate.

The "deplorables" are only about half of Republican voters, and they are an even smaller minority of the overall voting population. And Trump and Congressional Republicans weren't in power at the time that everyone voted in 2016. Now we have seen what their priorities are and what actions they are taking. There is a difference between an unknown, an outsider, a "change," and a known quantity.

Trump and Congressional Republicans are now known quantities and they're pissing off everyone. Their extreme supporters are disappointed because Obamacare hasn't been repealed, we don't have a wall, we don't have tax cuts, we don't have jobs. Everyone else is pissed off at the dreadful health care bill that makes everything worse, taking a trillion dollars away from health care and giving it in tax cuts to millionaires, and the truly awe-inspiring incompetence of the Trump administration and Republican leadership.

This isn't 2016.

[quote]Question is how to reach all those other people

Republicans, to their eternal regret, appear to be doing a fine job.

by Anonymousreply 293July 21, 2017 6:01 PM

The media chose to endlessly cover Trump because he was a shitshow. They didn't cover the other candidates as much because Heaven forbid the media want to inform the public by covering boring candidates who only talk about *actual* policies/programs.

Only idiots claim Hillary didn't actually discuss policies for the working class. If the media isn't covering it because it's too boring, then why would you blame her or any other candidate for what the media chose to cover because only ratings matter to them.

by Anonymousreply 294July 21, 2017 6:40 PM

[quote] Given that, there is very little that Democrats need to do other than to continue to point out the insane policies that Trump and his fellow Republicans are trying to foist on us.

This is why we lose. We're not going to win by simply attacking the Republicans or letting them implode. We're not going to win if our response to every bit of criticism is to say, "Oh, yeah. Well, the Republicans are even worse!" We can't win unless our arguments on why to vote against Republicans are coupled with equally forceful positive arguments on why to vote FOR Democrats.

Hillary relied too heavily on a strategy of attacking Trump. Nearly all of her TV ads were just attacks on Trump with nothing at all about what she would actually do as president. She thought that if she could successfully attack Trump, that would translate into votes for her. It didn't quite work that way. A lot of voters thought Trump was rude and obnoxious, they thought he was unqualified to be president, and they disagreed with his policies. Yet they STILL VOTED FOR HIM ANYWAY.

by Anonymousreply 295July 21, 2017 6:42 PM

[quote] Only idiots claim Hillary didn't actually discuss policies for the working class.

Sure, she discussed them at the rallies (which, as you correctly point out, were not well covered by the media) and on her website (which very few people read). Would it have killed her to discuss a few of them in her TV ads -- you know, the things that people actually see?

by Anonymousreply 296July 21, 2017 6:46 PM

295 you're not thinking with the big head. The truth is she did not attack him hard enough. And the last week of the campaign, she didn't campaign at all. Voters supported him who knew he was a fraud and an idiot and if they really believed he would try to do the things he said he would, they would not have voted for him. Basically they think the country runs itself and it doesn't really matter who is president. And so far they have been proved right. The country has not melted into chaos because Trump is in charge, mainly because "the system" and his own ignorance has prevented him from doing very much. The deplorables are upset, but they cannot be satisfied by anyone within the realm of the current Constitution.

by Anonymousreply 297July 21, 2017 7:02 PM

And the problem with THAT is that they don't realize the damage having a conservative Supreme Court for fifty years has done and will do. They are not blaming the Republicans for having created all this, when this situation is EXACTLY what the Republicans wanted.

by Anonymousreply 298July 21, 2017 7:04 PM

Anyway, liberals have to be MUCH MORE ANNOYING in order to win.

by Anonymousreply 299July 21, 2017 7:14 PM

Sure Hillary discussed jobs and the economy with the working class. She also called them a basket of deplorables. It is moot that not all of the white lower class was deserving of that insult; because you better believe that they all took it that way.

When Obama made the "guns and religion" comment, it did not do nearly as much damage because Obama has the common touch when he needs it, and there is a world of difference between the two criticisms.

The white working class thinks the snooty Democrats don't care about them. That is a fact, so what is the answer?

by Anonymousreply 300July 21, 2017 7:33 PM

[quote]This is why we lose. We're not going to win by simply attacking the Republicans or letting them implode.

The midterm election is always a referendum on the President and on the ruling party in Congress. So yes, actually we can win by simply attacking the Republicans and letting them implode.

by Anonymousreply 301July 21, 2017 7:41 PM

Have you so quickly forgotten the 2010 election? Republicans didn't win by offering any real vision or any reason to vote for them. They won by attacking Obama and Obamacare. And they won big.

by Anonymousreply 302July 21, 2017 7:42 PM

[quote] Trump and Congressional Republicans are now known quantities and they're pissing off everyone. Their extreme supporters are disappointed because Obamacare hasn't been repealed, we don't have a wall, we don't have tax cuts, we don't have jobs. Everyone else is pissed off at the dreadful health care bill that makes everything worse, taking a trillion dollars away from health care and giving it in tax cuts to millionaires, and the truly awe-inspiring incompetence of the Trump administration and Republican leadership.

85% of Republicans approve of the job that Trump is doing.

[quote] Have you so quickly forgotten the 2010 election? Republicans didn't win by offering any real vision or any reason to vote for them. They won by attacking Obama and Obamacare. And they won big

If I remember correctly; maybe something like 40% of the electorate voted in the 2010 midterms.

by Anonymousreply 303July 21, 2017 8:26 PM

[quote]85% of Republicans approve of the job that Trump is doing.

It's a number that has been steadily dropping. He's losing support of his base slower than the rest but he's definitely losing it.

[quote]If I remember correctly; maybe something like 40% of the electorate voted in the 2010 midterms.

Doesn't change the point. 2018 will be a referendum on Trump and it's a referendum he's failing.

by Anonymousreply 304July 21, 2017 9:20 PM

[quote] Doesn't change the point. 2018 will be a referendum on Trump and it's a referendum he's failing.

R304 I wasn't disputing that point

by Anonymousreply 305July 21, 2017 9:42 PM

Unless the Russia issue is dropped (until REAL PROOF is found) 2018 is going to be a bloodbath for Dems.

2 years of calling Trump a Russian stooge with zero proof will not win elections.

by Anonymousreply 306July 22, 2017 3:52 AM

[quote] Unless the Russia issue is dropped (until REAL PROOF is found) 2018 is going to be a bloodbath for Dems.

In today's Trump hating Guardian, a writer made a similar point about the media.

[quote] The people of the respectable east coast press loathe the president with an amazing unanimity. They are obsessed with documenting his bad taste, with finding faults in his stupid tweets, with nailing him and his associates for this Russian scandal and that one. They outwit the simple-minded billionaire. They find the devastating scoops. The op-ed pages come to resemble Democratic fundraising pitches. The news sections are all Trump all the time. They have gone ballistic so many times the public now yawns when it sees their rockets lifting off.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 307July 22, 2017 4:09 AM

[quote]Unless the Russia issue is dropped (until REAL PROOF is found) 2018 is going to be a bloodbath for Dems.

And your reasoning for this is what, exactly? We have proof right now, with Trump, Jr., and plenty of circumstantial evidence of financial impropriety, perjury, lying, evasion, obstruction of justice for several people, including Trump himself. This is just getting interesting. And the majority of the country want this investigation to continue. And Trump's numbers are still dropping.

[quote]2 years of calling Trump a Russian stooge with zero proof will not win elections.

Several years of "Benghazi!!!!!" with zero proof did not damage Republicans. I'm afraid that you're going to have to do better than this.

by Anonymousreply 308July 22, 2017 6:36 PM

Thanks R307, that article is spot on.

by Anonymousreply 309July 22, 2017 6:48 PM

The Democrats need to learn how to fight back. They need to learn on what they are standing for. Average people who are democrats have been disappointed in them for a long time.

by Anonymousreply 310July 22, 2017 9:06 PM

what are they standing for, R310? be exact, and show your work.

by Anonymousreply 311July 22, 2017 9:31 PM

R310

Tranny bathrooms, BLM and trigger warnings.

by Anonymousreply 312July 23, 2017 12:02 AM

Conservatives are fucking murderous racist NAZIS, but we have to concern troll that liberals are 'annoying'? Really?

LIBERALS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM.

by Anonymousreply 313August 14, 2017 6:09 PM

Democrats and liberals stand for equal rights and equal treatment under the law for every American citizen.

Democrats and liberals stand for safe food & drugs, clean air & water, and a sustainable healthy environment to live and work in, and leave to our kids and grandkids.

Democrats and liberals believe that education and health-care should be affordable and effective and available for anyone and everyone who wants or needs it, without incurring tremendous debt.

Apparently, conservatives find all these things 'annoying'.

by Anonymousreply 314August 14, 2017 6:12 PM

Sorry, she's annoying. I would have told her to shut up also.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 315August 14, 2017 7:51 PM

Don't confuse annoying individuals for being "annoying liberals".

BTW, it seems liberals are only really "annoying" to racist, sexist, misogynist, bigoted, homophobic, supremacist conservative assholes. Because truth and reality annoy such people.

by Anonymousreply 316August 14, 2017 8:36 PM

Stay in your padded cell, r258.

by Anonymousreply 317August 14, 2017 9:13 PM

R316

Textbook example of an annoying liberal who should keep their mouth shut.

by Anonymousreply 318August 14, 2017 9:47 PM

R2, learn to fucking proofread and then get back to us, you xenophobic turd

by Anonymousreply 319August 14, 2017 10:00 PM

R318 is a textbook example of someone who, being annoyed by simple facts and reality, tries to blame it on liberals or the messenger. Pathetic.

by Anonymousreply 320August 14, 2017 10:54 PM

R4 None of the commenters on DL are closeted. They are all mostly anonymous however.

by Anonymousreply 321August 14, 2017 10:59 PM

If we keep having to give them pointers and tips then they do not deserve to win.

by Anonymousreply 322August 14, 2017 11:02 PM

Oh shut the fuck up, R322. The alternative is racist sexist homophobic Republicans. Yet you think because a few liberals "annoy" you, you think we should hand over all the keys to the Nazis?

What the fuck is wrong with you? Because SOMETHING is seriously fucking wrong with you.

by Anonymousreply 323August 15, 2017 12:47 AM

[quote] racist, sexist, misogynist, bigoted, homophobic, supremacist conservative assholes

Wow, every stereotype of a liberal in one package.

by Anonymousreply 324August 15, 2017 2:44 AM

Um, R324? How is it possible you could get something so exactly wrong and backwards?

by Anonymousreply 325August 15, 2017 2:46 AM

I kind of agree with the article. As a prof, I attended a student evening where they were sharing histories - they announced it as a safe space and anybody with conflicting views should leave. Huge eye roll moment. Universities aren't safe spaces, period

by Anonymousreply 326August 15, 2017 4:41 AM

[quote]Liberals can win again if they stop being so hypocritical.

Fixed.

by Anonymousreply 327August 15, 2017 4:48 AM

R327, that's a joke. Hypocrisy is a core Republican/Conservative value. Not Liberal.

Why do conservatives keep projecting? They're forever accusing others of things that are actually true of themselves.

by Anonymousreply 328August 15, 2017 4:50 AM

R328

You are a perfect example of a hypocritical liberal. If you weren't a hypocrite, then you would be demanding deeper congressional investigation into the DNC/DWS and Clinton global initiative.

by Anonymousreply 329August 15, 2017 6:07 AM

No, sorry, R329. I'm not the one being a hypocrite. But you definitely are (and also proving yourself to be a sucker for confirmation bias and tin-hat conspiracy theories)

by Anonymousreply 330August 15, 2017 6:18 AM

R330

Sure, it's normal for the former chair of the DNC and a ranking member of the House of Representatives to do and say the things that she has over the last two months.

Thank you for pointing out that it is simply my bias is the problem, and not her repeated criminal actions.

It is curious though, that none of the former congressional employers of this family have made any public statement condemning them for milking the taxpayers out of millions of dollars and massively compromising national security.

by Anonymousreply 331August 16, 2017 5:50 AM

Adjust your tinfoil hat, R331, and examine your confirmation biases please. You're sounding unhinged.

by Anonymousreply 332August 16, 2017 7:51 PM

R332

They indicted the guy today. I wonder if he will agree to testify in exchange for a lighter sentence. I'm sure that several dozen Democratic members of Congress are frantically working to mitigate the damage that is coming.

by Anonymousreply 333August 18, 2017 1:02 AM

(rolling eyes)

by Anonymousreply 334August 18, 2017 1:13 AM

How come conservatives -- who are infinitely more annoying -- never have to "stop being annoying" in order to win?

by Anonymousreply 335August 29, 2017 10:14 PM

R317 Just a reminder that Women were responsible for the largest political rally in U S history, the PUSSY march.

A (female) Georgetown professor described it as a sort of collective scream from American women directed at the harrasment, the prejudice, the abuse, the second-class life, that women have to deal with just because they have PUSSIES.

When women find out that their mothers are going to be forced by Democrats to share bathrooms in nursing homes with men, when their daughters lose their sports scholarships due to the Democrats attack on Title IX, when they themselves are confronted with a 6ft bearded hulk of a man taking off his pantyhose and miniskirt in their gym, they will push back.

Read the Peak Trans sub on Reddit (linked) It's truly horrible what young lesbians are being subjected to by MtTs. Once these creeps are unleashed on all women, the backlash will begin. And the sad part is that it will take the LG and the Democrats with it.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 336August 29, 2017 11:42 PM

Agree R336.

by Anonymousreply 337August 29, 2017 11:47 PM

When prominent gays and lesbians begin openly criticizing the tranny movement the shift will be complete.

by Anonymousreply 338August 30, 2017 1:48 AM

Oh jesus christ shut up, R338.

by Anonymousreply 339August 30, 2017 2:39 AM

Why, R339?

Until some prominent liberal scientist stands up and categorically states that cosmetic surgery and hormone therapy does not make a man into a woman the Trannies will continue to alienate everyone who thinks they're crazy.

80% of people, even in liberal bubble cities, don't believe Marcus is a girl because he put on all the jewelry.

I have no problem with men who feel like they are trapped in women's bodies doing whatever they want to do. I would never intentionally hurt someone's feelings by referring to them with a pronoun they found offensive. I would immediately apologize and then seek to permanently separate myself from that lunatic.

by Anonymousreply 340August 31, 2017 1:58 AM

Oh fuck off, R340. Seriously.

by Anonymousreply 341August 31, 2017 1:59 AM

Why, R341?

I love my former boss, who has been a woman for 30+ years, and consider her a dear friend. Decades before Caitlyn J. we had several discussions about her experience, and if she wasn't tough as nails she would never have survived. She has regrets, some of them tangentially related to the surgery, but more likely a better understanding of herself.

XY and XX determine sex, with XY gonadal dysgenesis the rare exception where indeterminate gender is indeterminate due to genitalia deformities.

Abandoning science in the name of liberalism is NOT a good look.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 342August 31, 2017 2:17 AM

What part of fuck off don't you understand?

Go grind your fucking axe somewhere else.

by Anonymousreply 343August 31, 2017 3:18 AM

R343

Go take your tranny bullshit elsewhere. Blocked.

by Anonymousreply 344August 31, 2017 4:11 AM

R328 Hypocrisy runs deep in both parties.

The Dems supported gay marriage in the 1992 platform only to take it out in the '96 platform. The party is full of hypocrites on that issue.

Obama supported gay marriage when he started out in politics only to come out against it later. He's a hypocrite for that & how many famous Dems called him out for that?. Not many.

Anti-war protesters that dogged Bush laid low during most of Obama years when the wars continued but are revving back up again now that Trump is in the WH. They're hypocrites who don't want to make waves for their candidate while they are in office.

Anti-death penalty advocates also laid low during Bill & Barack's campaigns & for the most part their presidencies but made more of a fuss during Bush Jr. 8 years & now Trump's term. Hypocrites.

Dems always say they support public education but most of them with $ will send them to private schools in DC & other areas. The Clintons are hypocrites for not putting Chelsea where their mouths/hearts were.

Dems supported impeachment for Nixon but balked when Bill Clinton lied under oath as President. Plenty of hypocrites there.

Dems goaded Bush 1 into signing a tax bill in a bipartisan compromise & then campaigned against him for it saying he didn't keep his promises. Flash forward 2 decades later with Pelosi promising citizens would be able read the health care bill online 24 hours before they voted on it but as I recall didn't happen. She & Obama also told people they could keep their health care coverage but millions see them as hypocritical lairs for losing their coverage. Dems didn't go after Pelosi & Obama like they did Bush 1. More free passes (hypocrisy) for their own candidates.

Feminist Dems gave Bill Clinton a pass on all of his affairs/treatment of women but have gone after Repubs for many of the things he has said/done. They are hypocrites for that.

Both parties criticize the other for actions they will be guilty of later down the road. As a political independent who always voted for the Dem in the presidential election, it's just the way things are.

by Anonymousreply 345September 2, 2017 4:25 AM

bump

by Anonymousreply 346September 2, 2017 6:51 PM

Josh Barro spent a summer interning for Grover Norquist., and he writes for Business Insider.

He's about as liberal as Sean Hanniity. Conservasplaining to Democrats how they should turn into Republicans never goes out of style, sadly.

I'm personally having much more fun watching the GOP get torn apart by illiterate Nazis.

by Anonymousreply 347September 2, 2017 7:45 PM
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