What Qualifies As "Black Magic"?

The Vitalum Vitalis !!!!

Janet Jackson fitting in her stage costume.

If you used magic against a bad person to stop them from hurting others, does that balance out?

Ask Carlos Santana

OP, Most Wiccans I've known have believed in the 'Rule of Three'.

[quote]It states that whatever energy a person puts out into the world, be it positive or negative, will be returned to that person three times.

If you wish harm upon a bad person, bad things will happen to you. On the other hand, if you know a person who's being hurt by this bad person, you can try to offer loving, protective energy to the victim. And, with the bad person, you can also try to send positive energy. In the rare cases where I've developed a strong animosity towards someone ( have co-worker who I despise), I've simply chosen to consciously to focus on, "I wish him success.....somewhere else". We now report to different managers, thankfully.

Wiccans worship Satan!!

What if you don't know the people they're hurting? Say it's a person in power that hurts the people under them, can you wish blessings on the injured parties even if they are abstracts to you?

Real witchcraft, or what Druids practice, is about nature and energy. The difference between light and dark magic is kind of bogus. Wiccas differentiate between spells to attract or repel something (waxing moon cycle for attraction spells, waning moon cycle for repelling spells) because of the before mentioned law of three (basically what others see as Karma).

Real wiccas understand nature and the law of three and don't let petty little conflicts cloud their judgement to put curses on everybody. However the thing is that, say, curing cancer is considered destructive, or "dark" magic, because it repels / cast out sickness out of one's body (very exorcism like) while attracting a suitable mate is considered "light" magic, because it is attraction based. As it would be "dark magic" to let go of a relationship or repel unwanted attention (for example a suitor you have no interest in yet he or she keeps stalking you).

R5. Impress me with the rule of three in Quantum mechanics and high school chemistry. Thought not.

R5, karma comes to one in another life. Schizotypal brain disorder. Magical thinking. Go see a doctor. There's medication for this.

R8, I'll have some croutons to go with your word salad.

r10. Karma is self orchestrated punishment for something you feel guilty about on a subconscious level. You treat someone else badly and feel guity about it and then have a freak accident? Karma you created / asked for to punish yourself.

Actually I've wondered this when reading DL's own Santeria Lez who recommends reading Psalm 35/37/109 while thinking of the person who is wishing you ill.

Aren't you drawing negativity to yourself by doing this? Is it supposed to be fine because it us biblical? Psalm 109 is especially ugly.

R12, nope. The term karma refers to how you'll be in a future life. Not this one What you are describing is known as "psyche!". Then again, what would you know about anything?

What is 109

"What Qualifies As "Black Magic"?"

My getting a job in the Trump administration.

R15: "Psalm 109 (Greek numbering, Psalm 108) is a psalm noted for containing some of the most severe curses in the Bible, such as:

Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.

and

Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out."

[quote][bold]Karma is the universal principle of cause and effect. [/bold]Our actions, both good and bad, come back to us in the future, helping us to learn from life’s lessons and become better people. In religions that include reincarnation, karma extends through one's present life and all past and future lives as well.

You can reflect or block harm caused by someone without incurring bad karma or doing anything "black." But it depends on your intent.

Black magic is deliberate harm to yourself or others or forceful manipulation, even healing, of others without their consent. It is about substituting your own judgement for karma or for God's judgement., among other things.

R17, TY. R18, wrongo! Just so wrong. Uneducated.

R19, see a doctor. Preferably a head doctor.

Simple wiki. Stifling the laughter.

Define "stop".

R21 , why are you so threatened?

OP ...

.....

Power of Shadow...Rise Up And Destroy All Who Oppose Me!!! Oh and Supergirl sucks ass!

Cast a circle, stay within, safe inside from a world of sin.

I've watched this thread, and have been disappointed.

[quote]Question for those who believe in magic, If you could in theory use magic to stop an evil person, would that still technically be black or dark magic?

I thought OP asked an interesting, and somewhat complex question, and deserved a little respect for putting it out there. I answered, only sharing what has been shared with me, only to be insulted by people who apparently didn't read the thread title. (Please see full title above). In some ways, its an ethical question, and I would hope that would mean something. I knew I would be immediately mocked, and that's okay with me. The truth is, I don't have any facts, only anecdotes, and what has been shared with me. And isn't that what DL consists of, anyway?

r30, the ethics of witchcraft is dealt with by the law of three. Stop evil with black magic is movie magic ethics and has nothing to do with real magic. The basic function of magic is to either attract or repel. Magic is not like some loaded gun waiting for you in a drawer to stop intruders.

Y'all need to pray...

Energy is not good or bad- your use of it determines how "white" or "black" your magic is. Keep in mind that many ancient cultures associated white with death and black with fertiliy (good soil in Egypt appeared dark and was described as "black"), so your dualistic definitions are not universal.

This will explain it for you, OP.

There is not "magic". Sheesh....

Oranges Poranges

.......

..........

R27 LOL

R12 that means good people will have horrible lives and bad people will have great lives. Some people can feel guilty over everything, whereas others can murder and feel nothing. That's not a very efficient spiritual system.

Yes horrible people like pro athletes and 99% of Hollywood have easy lives and they are evil!

There is very dark, evil energy out there that is most easily accessed by self-centeredness and kind, loving energy out there that for us, is most easily accessed through a belief in Jesus Christ.

Sending out curses more often than not just sends out unfocused energy that will hit lots of innocent people, and even come back on the sender.

Best thing to do is do protection prayers ( 'spells' is a terrible word) and meditate/talk with a plant ally of your choice, which could be any plant/tree that you feel drawn to or safe and comfortable with.

For protection, and especially if you are new at this, Oak Trees offer very strong protection and care. You have to ask for permission, of course, and have humility.

Secondly, always have faith in Our Lord and savior Jesus Christ--as his followers we are' in this world' but not 'of this world,' so he understands our alienation and rejection from others ( Christians feel persecution at some point in their lives) and we will be in his kingdom when we pass on.

I would like to add that the evil scumbags out there have no use or understanding of the plant spirit world, and if you are VERY concerned about someone being hurt by a sociopath, you MAY utilize the plant spirits to stop the abuser.

The plant kingdom does not tolerate the imbalanced, self-centered abusers that walk their home, so yes, they would be willing combatants to their sociopathic abuser and might want to help you.

Doing this may affect your mental health though, so please think this out carefully as I am NOT recommending you do this. For newcomers to the illustrious plant kingdom, protection praying is best.

Take care.

R9 - I'm not a chemist and haven't studied chemistry since high school. I seem to remember chemical reactions may result in energy being released into the surroundings or being absorbed from the surroundings. In simple terms the chemical reaction is the system and everything else is the surroundings.

The rule of three operates on the same premise. The magics are the system. It is the surroundings that supply the amplification.

You certainly can't think energy can't be transformed and redirected. What do you think the Hoover Dam does. Gravity and water in Nevada/Arizona ends up transformed into electricity in Los Angeles. This occurs as a result of human intervention. Just like magic.

I can tell you a bit about the Brazilian side....

In the two main Afrobrazilian religions, Candomble and Umbanda, they worship 17-20 animist deities (spirits connected to forces of nature - water, earth, fire, iron, etc.) Most of them are "good" spirits; two of them are destructive forces which you could call "evil". Practitioners of these two religions strongly emphasize the positive spirits; however, Exu, one of the "evil" spirits, is also the gate for communicating with the dead. Imagine as a Christian saying prayers to Satan to pass on messages to your deceased loved ones, and you kind of get the idea.

Most Brazilians will tell you quite emphatically that Candomble & Umbanda worshippers don't practice "black" magic. But apparently there are people in Brazil who quietly dabble in the dark side of Candomble/Umbanda. As noted above, people who play with that stuff do so with great care; destructive spirits can help you or hurt you if you're not careful.

The Rule of Three is a stupid rule because it implies that the energy put out into the world will be returned times three, which makes no logical sense. It's just a way to keep wiccans from using black magic out of personal interest, sort of like how Christians are supposed to be afraid of getting sent to hell.

[quote]You certainly can't think energy can't be transformed and redirected. What do you think the Hoover Dam does. Gravity and water in Nevada/Arizona ends up transformed into electricity in Los Angeles. This occurs as a result of human intervention. Just like magic.

That sounds completely logical! Since I believe in hydrology, black magic must therefore be true!

I wish magic were real.

I wish wishes always came true, R49.

Feh, R47, as if "Wicca" had any real power, anyway.

I've said it before on related topics and I'll say it again. Regardless of what you think magic is, do not engage evil with evil. If someone really is this way and you try to incur justice in this manner, you will lose. They are on a track you can't imagine and you won't beat them with their game. R18 does have some part of this right, in that you create "boomerangs" of your intentions and actions back to yourself. What you do to others does come back, sooner or later, and it doesn't have to wait till the next life.

I trust God first and the love that I learn through him takes on all situations with some surprising results on many occasions. Act under God's guidance, but before you do, ask for the Divine idea in whatever situation you face and bless it and everyone involved. Declare peace within. Be willing to take your mental hands off and let God work. I tell you the truth - I have been from one side to the other and this is the very best way I know.

Which God, r51? The Jewish God Jehovah? The Lord Jesus Christ? Buddha? Allah? The Mayan Deity Xcarruchan?

r51's post reminds me of Chick tracts.

[quote]that means good people will have horrible lives and bad people will have great lives. Some people can feel guilty over everything, whereas others can murder and feel nothing.

That is not true. We are benevolent by default (when we are born) and we remain benevolent on a subconscious level. Just because you perceive others to be bad, and yet having great lives, doesn't mean your perception is right and they do live great lives after all the bad they've done. It's like people thinking that rich people have no problems and live great lives, because money solves every problem. It does not solve every problem. It just adds more problems (more money, more problems). Or pretty people have no problems, because they get whatever they want by being pretty.

When you are eager to pretend to have a great life, like many bad guys do, do you go and tell people anything that would contradict that image you try to uphold? No, on a conscious level you do everything you can to keep up the fake image while feeling miserable inside. That miserable feeling is the result of tension between the conscious and the subconscious. It's like you're a kid and the conscious and subconscious are your parents. When your parents agree with each other you are happy, when they don't agree with each other you are sad, frightened, angry, etc. When you feel miserable you get sloppy and bad things, and bad experiences, happen (Karma). Sometimes you can fix your sloppy mistakes without other people noticing and sometimes you can't fix them and people notice.

Don't look at other people for proof whether karma is real or not. You are not around them 24/7 and you can't read their minds. Look at yourself, your past, and be honest to yourself about the relationship between your feelings and your experiences including karmic responses after you feel miserable.

We're not benevolent by default - it's not natural in the animal world, why would it be so in the human world? We're governed by instinct and compassion is something that is learned.

r55, yes, we are. That's our default program. It's the junk we upload throughout our lives that causes the conflict between our default program and the new beliefs we take on (I like this thing, but I am told I am not supposed to like this thing! This thing is nice 'n all, but I believe it's not for me, but I am told by others that this thing is for me, but I really, really don't like it!).

r56 based on what science? Or is this just what you wish were true? You're suggesting a religious concept of the state of "grace", but you seem to be ignoring natural instincts.

r57, how many babies went on a killing spree the moment they were born, or when they were able to walk? That would indicate that they are bad.

r58 I dunno, how many babies can lift an axe?

[quote]based on what science?

You do realize that you ask for proof in a thread about Black Magic, right? You want proof for all this to exist and work? For any magic to work you must have the believe and faith that they work.

[R58] I dunno, how many babies can lift an axe?

Bad babies find a way, I'm sure. Maybe thanks to Black Magic they can move things with their mind.

Sorry, ... For any magic to work you must believe and have faith that they work.

r60 Faith isn't magic, it's believing something even though there's no proof it exists. Magic, if it's done properly, can be scientifically proven. Similar input gets similar output. I'm not talking about the New Age crap here with crystals, but old system magic.

r58 I didn't say babies were evil, just that they aren't born "good" either. They're powered by instincts and the compassion or not is learned behavior.

Naturally, R47/R52/R53/R55/R57/R59 tries to pick on me for believing in God while ignoring the points I made, and doesn't contribute anything useful to the thread, while ignoring the other posters who mentioned God. How typical of the shallow people who find DL these days. Assuming you have the comprehension skills to do so, dear, try and learn something from your elders here. And God bless you in all your perfection :)

P.S. R63's response to R60 is for the most part in accordance with mine.

[quote]Faith isn't magic,

Of course it's faith. Faith in the succes of magic rituals. When you believe it works you will look for proof it does work. If you believe it doesn't work you look for proof it does not work.

[quote]Magic, if it's done properly, can be scientifically proven.

You don't prove magic, that's ridiculous. You prove that your belief in the desired outcome was right. That your trust / faith in magic made you see the things you wanted to see, experience the things you wanted to experience.

All magic rituals do is give you the push to change your "I can't have this, because ..." perception of reality into a "I can have this, because ..." perception of reality.

We translate our surroundings through our senses and we give our senses specific instructions, based on our established belief systems, what to make us aware of. We are all biased people as adults, because we have created belief systems that are based on past experiences and they make us see the world throught those beliefs.

Sorry, THROUGH those beliefs.

r65 you are clearly a New Age occultist, so of course you can't prove YOUR magic works.

r67, I share my belief, yes. Is that any different from what you do?

r64 you're assuming I read any of the other crap you posted above the comment I responded to. I can see I annoyed you enough that you decided to see what I'd posted in this thread. You're the one resorting to ad hominem attacks here by attacking me rather than my arguments.

Even though you didn't mention it, it was clear you were basing your comments on Christian ideas - and a specific branch of Christianity - the kind that believes magic, black or white, is indeed real, and is a temptation to be resisted (whereas Christian magic and Jesus's workings are "miracles", which is different from magic, somehow). I've commented specifically on the essence of your argument, which is that humans are born in a state of grace, which is a Christian concept that there is no actual scientific proof for.

And yes, what you said reminded me of a Chick tract, because Jack Chick belongs to that branch of Christianity that believes black magic is real and a temptation to the Chosen.

R64 here - I must correct myself, I didn't notice that the troll I listed was ALSO at R63! We actually agreed on something to a point! Fantastic. I won't see your response, of course, but perhaps not all your brains are shit. Or perhaps one of your personalities possesses more logic than the rest.

Either way, keep up the reading comprehension exercises! Good on you!

r67 have you done magic, or is this just your reasoning about how it could work in your viewpoint?

r70 now I'm a troll for disagreeing with you? Please.

You may think that you have no influence or effect on another person, but there is plenty of evidence that challenges that. Recently, on some perfectly innocent thread, someone talked about enjoying crushing mice with his Doc Martens. Just reading that made me flinch, but I was out of FFs to apply at that point, but then another poster replied that he'd add a FF. Later, that first person mocked me for my post. You can feel the evil, sometimes, just from pixels shared from an anonymous person.

But I've also felt comforted, many times, by other people on DL, who've offered kind words when I've admitted to sad things. Honestly, guys and girls (and gurls), give some thought about what you project out there. I can be pretty cunty when I'm directly attacked, but I'm generally pretty benevolent when I'm here. Just as in real life. I do believe there's such a thing as black magic: stay away from it. But being prayerful for the people or things you love or care about isn't a bad thing.

Anthony Mackie.

R48 -where did I say hydrology proves magic?

What is karma? By Paul Brunton

What is schizotypal personality disorder? This one fits it like a glove.....so....

THE SCHIZOTYPAL TROLL

The difference between black and white, good and bad is simply intent. No matter what you practice the number one rule should be to harm no one. Anyone, whether setting out to use magic or not, who sets out to purposefully hurt or injure another human being needs their head read. The intent behind the action says less about the method of magic used and more about the person using it.

You can protect yourself without harming others.

Black magic can also refer to the forces worked with, e.g. demonic energy vs. lesbionic.

As several people have said before me, intent is what causes the difference in Magick. Nothing else.

Its not a good idea to curse anyone. That stuff will definitely come back at you. But! There is such a thing as a Righteous Hex and no harm comes back on the practitioner if it's conducted correctly.

Redaric Williams

r80 there is no such thing as a righteous hex, and intent is not the only thing that matters. In other words I disagree with everything you said.

R81, hello, Redaric! May I present Mr. Mackie!

R80 and R82 - a hex is a curse. It is a salacious wish. Some may consider their use of hex justified - and therefore it is considered a righteous hex. it is still dark and has repercussions for the practitioner. The ramifications and whether or not a hex can be righteous go beyond this forum.

The discussion is similar to many disagreements in all aspects of our lives. For example some would argue that taking a human life can be a righteous act. For example World War II. Most would argue the actions taken by the Allies were justified by the horrific behavior of Germany. Others would argue the violence of war is never justified.

Few would argue that the acts of violence committed by the Allies had no personal impact on those committing the acts. What may be considered righteous acts came with personal sacrifice of those committing the acts.

Intent may justify using dark magic, but it doesn't change the magic from dark to light. All dark magic is practiced at a cost.

I once had an evil neighbor from another building who enjoyed fucking with me and my partner, he would say these annoying comments about me as I passed or cackle he even called the cops saying my bf called him a racial slue, an obvious lie. I found out his name, I wrote it on a piece of paper and circled it repeatedly with the intent to banish him from my life and then I ripped it up into tiny pieces. Not sure if it was a coincidence but I haven't seen him around at all. He was always out being a nosy fucker all day everyday (he new the lives of everyone).

R85 Nothing is coincidence, child.

I don't believe in neutral energy, because the plant kingdom ( the true leaders on this earth ) operates and communicates through a network of 'good,' and cooperative energy fields, which includes some plants sacrificing themselves to save other plants.

If energy was neutral their whole system would fail. The bad energy (demons) come from sources outside of the plant kingdom.

The natural world develops its own symbiosis. It doesn't necessarily follow that the energy the plants use is therefore "good".

Shut up R87. Word salad. Uneducated to boot. Some plants are invasive and kill other plants . Aquatic or on land.

See you don't have the gumption or wherewithal to dabble even lightly in physics. Just magic mumbo jumbo. If you did you'd understand the law regarding 3.

R89,

I love how you accuse me of magical thinking and then portend to have some knowledge about the 'magic' of number 3 LOL.

Besides, in nature, the magic number is 5.

One more reply and then I'm done with this schizophrenic.

5, huh? How is it 5? Why is it 5?

The laws of the universe, be it pertaining to massive objects or minute is 9. Since you have your head up your ass and never made it passed biology, no less chemistry or physics, you couldn't even fathom or explain to us how the order of the universe works, you quarkstain.

R91,

Sorry, but there are no "laws of the universe" that pertain to mankind because we are but a blip to the plant kingdom. And regarding the number "9," who says? Buddhists?, or New Agers?

Again, nothing in the plant kingdom relegates the number 9 to any special importance---5, yes.

And I'll let you figure that out yourself, or High and Mighty One.

Has anyone experienced a lesbionic possession? (Asking for a friend, natch)

There is a reason bad shit happens. You are never more clear of wanting to be healthy when you are so sick you can barely move, snot keeps running out of your nose, and the inside of your throat feels like sandpaper. You then focus on getting healthy again and take action to achieve that particular goal.

Tarot Card Readings and magic rituals have the potential to give you clarity what's really importan to you. Not what other people want from you or what they want you to want (career, spouse, material goods, etc.).

Regarding Black Magic. There is a very good reason for the old saying "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves" and "Pride comes before the fall". Never believe that it's your right or your place to judge others and / or make them pay for what they did. Only self righteous sociopaths think they do the right thing by being judge and "executioner".

Technically, OP, that would be mauve magic, rather than black. Not to be confused with puce or magenta.

Miles Davis

Hi. My name is Gravity. Dope.

Fuck that R94. Let's just let criminals walk all over us and do nothing. I've taught a few selfish sinners that they've had the wrong one. Exponentially. I consider it a service to my fellow citizens and pure souls who will not be victimized because I put an abrupt stop to abusive behavior.

I knew I'd resent my future self if I didn't stand up and do something.

It's hard to explain this to a delusional psychotic. Which one of your first degree relatives suffers from full blown schizophrenia?

What you should be doing is investing time in therapy and figuring out the correct medication to loosen the grip that some form of schizophrenia has on you. Arrest the insidious onset. Inner introspection of why you lessen people in favor of plants. It's because you feel utterly powerless, is why. Good luck to you. May you prevail.

And then when none of that works r94, you must summon the dread gods and appease their hungering maws by offering the souls of your enemies as sustenance!

R98, I don't have schizophrenia, I'm not R94, but I do revere the plant kingdom as we all should.

You seem to discard people with differing opinions as 'crazy,' and old tactic used by system to silence victims. It's cruel and I wonder if your magic really is kind and protective.

Many of us have been hurt by those words, why continue the pain?

Satanic/demonic intervention.

When you look for bad stuff and bad people you will find them or they will find you. That's why people go from one bad relationship to another and wonder what they have done to deserve such bad luck.

[quote]Let's just let criminals walk all over us and do nothing.

If you deliberately look for criminals in order for them to do that for you, nobody can stop you. I refuse to do so and nobody's walking all over me or pushing me around. Is there some physical, or legal law, that forces you to be someone else's victim? It's your choice when you put yourself in a situation where a criminal can do that to you.

[quote]I've taught a few selfish sinners that they've had the wrong one. Exponentially. I consider it a service to my fellow citizens and pure souls who will not be victimized because I put an abrupt stop to abusive behavior.

[quote]I knew I'd resent my future self if I didn't stand up and do something.

Sooner or later you will resent the ones you "protect", because they are too weak (minded) to protect themselves and your self righteousness will turn you into an even bigger and more vile monster than those you claim to fight against. Usually that starts when you feel you don't get enough credit, respect, or worship for your noble service.

The Serpent and The Rainbow book by Wade Davis, ethnobotanist.

In the context of this thread, forget the godawful movie by that name, allegedly based on the book.

"This book defies simple characterization, which is in keeping with its subject, the all-encompassing philosophy known as voodoo, or vodoun, as Davis here calls it. Haitian vodoun, properly understood, is concerned not merely with what is called witchcraft, but with a broad system of traditional wisdom and practical knowledge with its roots in Africa--among the peoples of the Guinea coast, all the way from the bolongs of the Senegal, the Gambia, and the Casamance to the lagoons of Togo and Benin (formerly Dahomey), down to the towering rain forests of the Congo and beyond. The author begins his story and quest as a student at Harvard. His assignment is to determine the precise nature of the powerful anaesthetic which creates the state of suspended animation in a ""zombi""--one who is to all appearances dead, but is revived with an antidote and brought under the spiritual domination of another. But what starts out as a scientific quest for pharmacological data concludes as a spiritual confrontation with the immense unknown. Behind the ancient traditions of Africa reside millenia of profound reflection upon and analysis of the human psyche, society, and the world around us..."

This quote is part of the Kirkus Review book summary. I encourage you to read the rest. The book is available online, for sale on Amazon etc, in audiobook and found in many libraries. It's a good, thought provoking and somewhat 'sitting on the edge of your chair' read.

It is also a great introduction to the pioneering men who created the field of ethnobotany and took it one step further. They challenged Davis to figure out the real backstory of Haitian Zombi reports in order to confirm their long held hypothesies.

I think R98 has just given us a great example of The Rule of Three.

OP, even if you use it on a so-called "evil" person, it is still Black Magic.

Seek first to understand the full situation. Then use any and all practical ways to solve this. If that doesn't work, and you want to use Black Magic, then do it with the help of at least two other experienced witches. Cast a spell together so that you don't suffer the repercussions by yourself. Assume the evil person you are using magic against already has the help of some powerful demons.

Things could get ugly for you.

The Rule of Three is bullshit. I believe there's a boomerang effect when you disturb energy, but saying it's amplified times three and returned makes no sense.

Megan Markle

Rule of Three is the same as Karma. Actions (and thoughts, that turn into beliefs) have consequences.

Don't fuck with Black Magic. Satan'll bite you in the ass every time.

r109 no it's not, it's saying that the energy you put out will somehow be amplified times three and returned to you, good or bad. That is not the same as Karma at all.

r110 you realize that there's many things older than the Christian Satan, right

R122 - I know lots of shit.

r113 apparently numbers are lost though

R114 - I'll always be ten steps ahead...

R111 - The Rule of Three doesn't say the energy you put out will be returned just that energy will be returned. Times three.

Think of it this way. If you exercise the energy to go out in the noon day sun naked one repercussion might be sun burn. But the energy that gives you the sun burn is not generated by you.

Just the like Earth magic is an open system when it comes to energy.

Wiccan Neighborhoods:

I can't believe none of the bitches on this thread had a comment on the video.

.....

r116 you're arguing a very minor and insignificant point. And meaningless, I think. It's a stupid "rule" and makes no logical sense and was clearly just made up.