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Biden: I Knew Hillary Would Lose Battleground States

Former Vice President Joe Biden said Friday that he knew a month before the 2016 election that Hillary Clinton would lose key battleground states.

Biden made the comment during a closed-door appearance with Mitt Romney at the annual Romney-hosted E2 Summit, reports Politico.

Based on his assessment of campaigning in those key battleground states, he said, he knew a month before the election that Clinton would lose them.

Biden also stepped on Hillary just last month, saying he never thought she was a “great candidate” during a conference in Las Vegas.

During the E2 appearance, Biden encouraged Mitt Romney to run for Senate in 2018, which caused the audience to cheer.

There have been suggestions that Romney may seek Sen. Orrin Hatch’s seat in Utah if he chooses not to run for reelection. Romney has not denied any intention to run.

As to Biden’s political aspirations, his shots at Hillary and creation of a political action committee suggest he may be gearing up for a 2020 presidential run.

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by Anonymousreply 211October 7, 2020 11:50 PM

Why be so passive aggressive, Uncle Joe?

by Anonymousreply 1June 11, 2017 12:48 PM

Why is he doing this now?

by Anonymousreply 2June 11, 2017 12:53 PM

Ouch!

by Anonymousreply 3June 11, 2017 12:53 PM

I didn't know it, but it was clear to me she was a weak and arrogant campaigner. She "flew over" swing states she should have been campaigning in. She could not connect with blue collar swing state voters and refused to do the state fair and assembly line campaigning necessary. She seemed more eager to fundraise with Hollywood elite than to have rallies with folks in Iowa or Michigan

by Anonymousreply 4June 11, 2017 12:56 PM

Didn't know that Biden had said Hillary wasn't a great candidate. So here's a link for those who want to read more about it.

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by Anonymousreply 5June 11, 2017 12:57 PM

She wasn't a great candidate. Almost no one says she was

by Anonymousreply 6June 11, 2017 12:59 PM

Looks only get you so far.

by Anonymousreply 7June 11, 2017 1:04 PM

66 million votes despite a Trumped up Faux indictment?

by Anonymousreply 8June 11, 2017 1:04 PM

Biden has ALWAYS been like this. Those memes made people forget he's always been rude, always put his foot in his mouth, always been far more friendly with the Republicans than he should have been.

He encouraged Romney to run for Senate, people. He's not our ally.

by Anonymousreply 9June 11, 2017 1:09 PM

And he attacked Anita Hill.

by Anonymousreply 10June 11, 2017 1:12 PM

Old Joe needs to shut the fuck up and go away.

by Anonymousreply 11June 11, 2017 1:13 PM

Joe Biden could have won those swing states.Instead the Democrats went with Mrs "It's Her Turn." The next Democratic candidate is going to work Wisconsin like you wouldn't believe.

by Anonymousreply 12June 11, 2017 1:14 PM

He'd better just save his money and learn to keep his trap shut. He can still salvage his good reputation if he stops both the speaking and the thoughts of running now. Another month or two of this and he's going to go back to being the same Biden we were all iffy about back in 2008.

by Anonymousreply 13June 11, 2017 1:16 PM

Somebody please shit in his mouth

by Anonymousreply 14June 11, 2017 1:18 PM

But he's right about her.

by Anonymousreply 15June 11, 2017 1:20 PM

Thanks for the MMQB, Joe. Real helpful.

by Anonymousreply 16June 11, 2017 1:20 PM

He could have won PA, MI, and WI. The coastal democratic liberal elites who don't like him dislike him because he connects with mainstream middle America and seems like one of them. We need candidates like him

by Anonymousreply 17June 11, 2017 1:23 PM

[quote]The coastal democratic liberal elites

Oh for god's sake.

[quote]he connects with mainstream middle America and seems like one of them. We need candidates like him

He's too old. He's got too much baggage, he's bigoted, and he's too cozy with the Republicans.

He (and you, probably) are thinking "Hey, look at all the regressive young Millennials who like comfortable old grandpa figures who say centrist to lite-Republican things and pass them off as far left and socialist beliefs! I could totally win this!" But the problem is that there aren't enough of that demographic to win, and he isn't liked well enough by actual leftists/liberals or red state independents for them to turn out in any big number to get him elected.

Not to mention that he's got this tendency to turn everything into an airing of grievances, and he's already pissed off Democrats who are tired of white dudes shitting all over Hillary Clinton just to score a couple of minutes of attention in the media.

If he is the Dem candidate in 2020 then the Dems will lose, guaranteed.

by Anonymousreply 18June 11, 2017 1:30 PM

Well in order to win swing states, you can't coddle the progressive urban elites; you have to sound like a small town Midwesterner or Southerner. The Party needs new blood for sure, but they need someone who connects with the values and culture of Middle America

by Anonymousreply 19June 11, 2017 1:34 PM

He won on the "Would-Shoulda-Coulda" Ticket!

by Anonymousreply 20June 11, 2017 1:40 PM

[quote] The Party needs new blood for sure, but they need someone who connects with the values and culture of Middle America

More Middle Americans are Democratic than the media gives them credit for.

Your advice would result in turning off the Democrats in purple states (or red states with large-ish blue oases). You need them AND some undecided or even red voters to turn states from red into blue. You can't just have a candidate pander to the Middle Americans who need to hear centrist or conservative dogwhistles, because then you'll turn off the Democratic base and lose anyway, all while pushing the Democratic party to the right even more than it already has been.

Obama also didn't do that kind of pandering, yet he connected with people in Middle America.

by Anonymousreply 21June 11, 2017 1:40 PM

Hindsight is 20/20. Biden didn't run because he thought he wouldn't win.

by Anonymousreply 22June 11, 2017 1:42 PM

He was right, R22.

Democrats and independents love a folksy, gregarious, charismatic, younger (for a politician) man like FDR, JFK, Bill Clinton, Obama. Hell, I'll even throw Carter into that list. I can see why people think Biden would have that kind of charm, but he's too old and he's too eager to pass blame and get kind of bitchy. Sanders is the same way.

by Anonymousreply 23June 11, 2017 1:48 PM

I think this only supports that inkling feeling many DLers expressed during the Primaries/election towards the Obama administration.

There was a reluctance from the Obama administration that almost came across as misogynistic towards Hillary. His reluctance to endorse her, the silence from the homophobic and misogynistic insults thrown at her at various rallies by the BernBros, the silence when Berni Sanders hacked the Clinton campaign in the primaries, the introduction of the TPP during the election even though many people told Obama it would hurt the Democratic candidate, the arrogance from the Vice and President towards Hillary in the run off.

by Anonymousreply 24June 11, 2017 1:50 PM

[quote] Why is he doing this now?

He wants to run for President. Hillary probably wants too, again - she's already making her moves, setting up the Onward Together PAC. He probably doesn't want her to gain ground, so he's calling attention to her flaws as a candidate. He's made other attacks on establishment Democrats, too, saying for example that they have ignored the working class. The problem is that Biden is an establishment Democrat, too, and some of the issues that have been plaguing the working class, such as the decreasing life expectancy of poorer whites, took their toll when he was VP.

by Anonymousreply 25June 11, 2017 1:55 PM

Did Uncle Joe make that statement before or after he pressured NY to give his criminal niece a slap on the wrist, for grand larceny?

What a phony cunt he is.

Btw, Hillary was a shit choice, but the Dems chose to anoint her as candidate, 2 whole yrs before the election. She was never allowed to have any serious opposition.

by Anonymousreply 26June 11, 2017 1:58 PM

I don't know if I buy the Dems deciding she would have no opposition. She was the annointed candidate in 2008 but when the Dems saw Obama taking over she had to step aside. If someone else had stepped up and captured to electorate like Obama did in 2008, I think the same thing would have happened again.

by Anonymousreply 27June 11, 2017 2:05 PM

The "anointed" thing is just the same old Trump/Sanders bullshit; it's a variant on "Queen Hillary." Don't take it seriously. Even THEY know it's not true.

by Anonymousreply 28June 11, 2017 2:08 PM

Yeah, Dems just had no charismatic governors or even Senators to wrestle the nomination from her

by Anonymousreply 29June 11, 2017 2:08 PM

It's so sad and distressing Dems lack a field team of possible candidates to choose from. That is the big story here

by Anonymousreply 30June 11, 2017 2:09 PM

[quote] the homophobic and misogynistic insults thrown at her.

What homophobic insults were thrown at Hillary?

by Anonymousreply 31June 11, 2017 2:14 PM

thief of a niece horny toad of a son humping his brothers' widow

Since the bar for President has been lowered, these should not be an issue. But joe is old, do not run for president please.

Maybe you could have told I'm with Her people that there was trouble in those BG states since you knew.

by Anonymousreply 32June 11, 2017 2:21 PM

Joe should not run, but we should learn from our big mistakes in 2016. We need a charismatic folksy clean candidate who is from the South or Midwest

by Anonymousreply 33June 11, 2017 2:25 PM

Why is Biden a democrat supporting Romney?

by Anonymousreply 34June 11, 2017 2:26 PM

There's a double standard though, and Biden's messy family and plagiarism scandals would be held against him, even though they are apparently prerequisites for Republican candidates.

by Anonymousreply 35June 11, 2017 2:27 PM

Dems need to run a hot piece of ass to gets pussies moist and cocks twitching again. Think Canada, think France. Give the people what they want!!

by Anonymousreply 36June 11, 2017 2:28 PM

Joe was a big promoter and defender of the credit card exploitations for decades. There was a reason these companies were headquartered in Delaware.

Also, plagiarized speeches are not endearing.

by Anonymousreply 37June 11, 2017 2:29 PM

Yes Biden should not run. We are talking about lessons from 2016.

by Anonymousreply 38June 11, 2017 2:32 PM

I see he's still shoving the knife into Hillary. Do sit down and shut up, Joe. You're just being needlessly mean and petty.

by Anonymousreply 39June 11, 2017 2:32 PM

R34. Probably because a Republican will win the Senate from Utah, regardless of whomever the Democratic candidate would be. Not a good reason, but a reason nevertheless. He apparently is a good friend with Romney.

by Anonymousreply 40June 11, 2017 2:35 PM

I am an early senior citizen myself. That said, I am not fond of people in their 70s and early 80s running for President, the Senate, etc.

John McCain is an example of someone who needed to have retired years ago. Some of Trump's many problems relate to age.

Also, term limits are much needed.

by Anonymousreply 41June 11, 2017 2:45 PM

He's soundly miffed that he was PASSED OVER, Mikey!

The promise was that this decision was for the good of the Party and of the nation. Because....history!

Except.....

by Anonymousreply 42June 11, 2017 2:48 PM

Coulda would shoulda

If Biden is so smart and would have been such a superior candidate, why the fuck didn't he run? He's being an asshole now.

by Anonymousreply 43June 11, 2017 2:52 PM

Joe was not stopped from running. He referenced his son's death way too much, and was used for waffling. Sanders, Chafee, O'Malley, and Webb all ran.

Hillary, herself, very recently complained about the Inept DNC.

by Anonymousreply 44June 11, 2017 3:02 PM

R32, Get real. Joe didn't "know"; he made an educated assessment. The braintrust in Hillary's camp, including the Clintons, ought to have figured it out as well (word is that Bill did, but Mookie-Boy ignored him).

Even I knew PA wasn't going to be a sure thing when the candidate herself skipped my locale.

by Anonymousreply 45June 11, 2017 3:05 PM

I'm so sick of the charismatic politicians. I was excited to have an awkward introvert who knew her shit in the office to see what someone like her could get done. So irritating that charm and charisma trump knowledge and experience amongst the masses.

by Anonymousreply 46June 11, 2017 3:07 PM

[quote] If Biden is so smart and would have been such a superior candidate, why the fuck didn't he run?

Because he knew that the Democratic Powers That Be had already decided that Hillary would be the nominee, and that anyone who dared interfere with "her turn" would suffer the wrath of the party and Hillary's most ardent supporters, who still haven't forgiven Obama for interfering with "her turn" in 2008.

by Anonymousreply 47June 11, 2017 3:12 PM

Mostly, r46, it has always been thus; humans are, after all, human.

by Anonymousreply 48June 11, 2017 3:12 PM

[quote]anyone who dared interfere with "her turn" would suffer the wrath of the party

Give me a break. The Democratic Party has no wrath. They didn't turn their wrath on Sanders but sent him out as their spokesperson. They haven't turned any wrath on Trump. They wouldn't have rained wrath down upon a beloved Democrat who just finished 8 years as veep; it would be bad for the brand.

And I haven't heard a single PUMA complaining about 2008 since, oh, about 2009. You're deranged.

by Anonymousreply 49June 11, 2017 3:17 PM

R24, I like Hillary, but I don't remember her coming to President Obama's defense when people insulted Him and his family. AAMOF, Bill was always hypercritical of President Obama, and always stayed mum when asked about Obama's accomplishments.

by Anonymousreply 50June 11, 2017 3:18 PM

R27 She wasn't anointed. Many in the party elite chose Obama OVER Hillary. With his chosen status he made a case to Hillary that he would be president and she would be Secretary of State. She went on to win the most delegates that year BTW. Very bizarre how she won the most votes during the primary and won the most votes as a presidential candidate.

by Anonymousreply 51June 11, 2017 3:28 PM

R34 Why was Hillary the biggest John McCain lover out there?! Politics make strange bedfellows.

by Anonymousreply 52June 11, 2017 3:30 PM

It's not that I disagree with you, R50, but while she was SOS she really couldn't have said anything. It would have gone against protocol. Chelsea spoke out a couple of times, though.

It really seems like the main tension is between Barack and Bill, yet Hillary got the brunt of it. I remember reading that "leaked" story about the Clintons and Obamas, and how Michelle made fun of Hillary but there was never any reason given as to why. Also at one dinner, Barack, who was still mad at Bill, snapped at Hillary when she tried to ease tensions between them. When she was interested in Michelle possibly running for Senator, Bill gave her the stink-eye.

It came across as Hillary taking the brunt of everyone else's inability to get along with each other.

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by Anonymousreply 53June 11, 2017 3:31 PM

[quote]Because he knew that the Democratic Powers That Be had already decided that Hillary would be the nominee, and that anyone who dared interfere with "her turn" would suffer the wrath of the party and Hillary's most ardent supporters, who still haven't forgiven Obama for interfering with "her turn" in 2008.

Rewriting history is not going to take Bernie any closer to the white house. Hillary was far and away the most popular candidate during the primaries and that why Joe Biden was too scare to run against her. She wiped the floor with everyone throughout the primaries because the majority of Democrats wanted her to represent them in the general election.

by Anonymousreply 54June 11, 2017 3:34 PM

[quote] She went on to win the most delegates that year BTW

WTF? Hillary did NOT win the most delegates in 2008. Obama got more pledged delegates and more superdelegates.

[quote] Very bizarre how she won the most votes during the primary

Why do the Hillary die-hards keep peddling this nonsense that Hillary won the "popular vote" in the 2008 primaries? First of all, there is no such thing as the "popular vote" in the primaries, because many caucus states don't keep an official vote total. Second, she only won "the most votes" because Obama wasn't on the ballot in Michigan, which meant that Hillary got over 300,000 votes in Michigan and Obama got zero. If you take Michigan out of the equation, Obama got more votes than Hillary.

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by Anonymousreply 55June 11, 2017 3:36 PM

[quote] She wiped the floor with everyone throughout the primaries

With everyone? There were only two others -- Sanders and O'Malley. And Sanders did manage to win 22 states.

by Anonymousreply 56June 11, 2017 3:38 PM

He needs to STFU! He sounds like a sexist jerk.

by Anonymousreply 57June 11, 2017 3:38 PM

She was never going to win.

by Anonymousreply 58June 11, 2017 3:42 PM

[quote] And I haven't heard a single PUMA complaining about 2008 since, oh, about 2009.

Then you haven't read DataLounge lately. Look at R51, who's still complaining about the 2008 primaries.

by Anonymousreply 59June 11, 2017 3:43 PM

[quote] I like Hillary, but I don't remember her coming to President Obama's defense when people insulted Him and his family. AAMOF, Bill was always hypercritical of President Obama, and always stayed mum when asked about Obama's accomplishments.

Then you are not remembering right, the Clintons went out of their way to unite Democrats behind Obama throughout his 2008 campaign. The reason his campaign was so strong is because everyone went out of their way to pitch in. When he got into office he was given intense advised by Clintons and that's why he used Clinton people in that first term. Back then, the media criticized Obama because they through "Bill and his Boys" where back in the office. The media had forgotten that the the Clintons and their people had given the US a surplus and those same people would go on to help the new administation (Obama) take us out of the recession.

by Anonymousreply 60June 11, 2017 3:46 PM

Please stop references like "shoving the knife into Hillary". It is very sexist.

by Anonymousreply 61June 11, 2017 3:47 PM

Run, Joe, Run!!!

Love that he's finally tellin' it like it is. Fuck the Clinton machine.

by Anonymousreply 62June 11, 2017 3:50 PM

Thank you, r55. There seem to be all these Sanders youngsters under the mistaken impression that Obama's nomination was brokered somehow. It wasn't. Hillary fought tooth and nail to the bitter end and wouldn't give up until Obama had a commanding lead among superdelegates. That was her fucking plan. Wait for Democrats to wake up and realize that the American people were not ready to elect a black man President, and have the superdelegates swing the nomination in her favor, contrary to the will of the electorate. And she was wrong.

I'm just going to pretend that r60 is Bill Clinton, fighting for his legacy wherever white men congregate.

by Anonymousreply 63June 11, 2017 3:51 PM

Hillary lost because of a series of blunders on her part, Obama's part, and the DNC's miscalculations for the last 20 years. There was no need for her to waste money on the flyover states. They haven't went Dem in decades, and it wasn't going to happen in 2016. That'd be like spending millions in SC. Money down the drain. Her fault was underestimating the email nonsense and overestimating the intelligence of the average American to know it was a bunch of nonsense. Obama should have taken steps to stop the Russian interference and electoral hacking. The DNC's part was ignoring state and local elections for 2 decades which allowed the Repubs to gerrymander every which way but legally. After saying all that, I still don't believe that she lost the election in the battleground states. There is a reason that the government deems anything related to the Russians changing the vote totals as a matter of national security. They don't want the American public to know we're stuck with an insane piece of shit who did not even win the electoral vote legitimately. Look what they got away with a Dem president in charge. Get ready for the most crooked elections in U.S. history with Trump at the helm.

by Anonymousreply 64June 11, 2017 3:53 PM

Obama LOATHES Hillary. Always has.

by Anonymousreply 65June 11, 2017 3:54 PM

If you already knew Joe, why didn't you get off your ass and help her cause in those battleground states?

You know like a fellow Democrat helping another win the White House no matter how you feel about her.

I'm going to call you "Sour Grapes Biden" if you don't stop your bitching.

by Anonymousreply 66June 11, 2017 3:57 PM

The speech Obama gave for Hillary at the convention last year was far more generous than anything she ever did for him. The Obamas have every right to despise Bill, considering the nakedly racist arguments he made against Barack in 08.

by Anonymousreply 67June 11, 2017 4:01 PM

Biden is just anther old white male still can't deal with a woman in charge. Men like him in those battleground states ultimately got suckered by Trump's misogynistic message.

by Anonymousreply 68June 11, 2017 4:04 PM

R63 is one of those idiots that likes alternative facts. I am just going to assume he's one of those misogynistic white men that congregates with other men to bash women.

As for the other poster upthread. Yes, Hillary received more votes than Barack Obama in the 2008 primaries. She would also go on to receive more votes in the 2016 primaries against Bernie Sanders and the 2016 presidential elections in 2016. However, US elections for president are not determined by popular vote. She has never lost the popular vote when running for office, hence Joe Biden was too scare to run against her.

by Anonymousreply 69June 11, 2017 4:07 PM

[quote]and he's too cozy with the Republicans.

That's not a bad thing. The obstructionist ways of both the far left and far right have brought us to where we are today. It would be nice to see both sides move more toward the center so we can see movement on issues like fixing Obamacare and infrastructure.

I'm also tired of the ageism. I don't give a shit if the person is 100 years old as long as they have what it takes to get things moving again in government. We can't stay like this forever.

by Anonymousreply 70June 11, 2017 4:10 PM

It would be interesting to revisit these threads if there was indeed hacking and colluding during the 2016 election. I still don't trust Bernie Sanders that got rid of the Clinton voting data. I don't know, but I always felt that data ended up being handed to the Republicans and most likely the Russians.

by Anonymousreply 71June 11, 2017 4:20 PM

R69, The only vote total that counts in Primaries is Delegates.

In 2008, Obama had 2,272.5; Clinton ended with 1,978.

Obama won 33 contests to Clinton's 23.

by Anonymousreply 72June 11, 2017 4:28 PM

R65 is correct about everything.

by Anonymousreply 73June 11, 2017 4:32 PM

[quote] The "anointed" thing is just the same old Trump/Sanders bullshit; it's a variant on "Queen Hillary." Don't take it seriously. Even THEY know it's not true.

The "anointed Hillary" meme comes strictly from Sanders supporters. It's the only way they can justify Sanders losing. They will never admit that the Sanders campaign had big problems, the biggest of them being Sanders's piggish, destructive, non-collaborative nature. There is no doubt in my mind that those people did not vote or voted Trump out of spite.

by Anonymousreply 74June 11, 2017 4:34 PM

So who would be someone with the same strong appeal for Democrats, but younger?

by Anonymousreply 75June 11, 2017 4:38 PM

[quote] The speech Obama gave for Hillary at the convention last year was far more generous than anything she ever did for him.

Except for the speech Hillary gave for Obama at the convention in 2008.

I do think that it was generous of Obama to offer her the SOS position.

by Anonymousreply 76June 11, 2017 4:38 PM

Biden is a bit of an idiot isn't he

by Anonymousreply 77June 11, 2017 4:41 PM

I don't think President Obama played any role in Hillary's loss. Especially since we now know external foreign sources were involved in the outcome of the election.

by Anonymousreply 78June 11, 2017 4:42 PM

[quote]The only vote total that counts in Primaries is Delegates.In 2008, Obama had 2,272.5; Clinton ended with 1,978.Obama won 33 contests to Clinton's 23.

I agree, Obama won because he had the super/delegates.

Like in 2016 Clinton won the popular vote and percentage vote in 2008, by mostly winning in the contest where minorities where a strong voting block.Obama connected with the more conservative states, which was what ended up costing the elections to Hillary 8 years later.

Obama in purple/ Hillary Yellow

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by Anonymousreply 79June 11, 2017 4:47 PM

Shut up ya old coot.

Bit of a Bernie, isn't he? Gets a little popularity (based off of image memes and his association with Obama) and it goes to his head, and he can't help taking a swipe at the woman who went further than him.

by Anonymousreply 80June 11, 2017 4:47 PM

I hope the party unites early behind Kamala in 2020.

Sadly, I'm afraid HRC's time has passed.

by Anonymousreply 81June 11, 2017 4:55 PM

Why the fuck didn't The Chinese and Germans hack Trump's campaign? Oh wait because Big Mouth Trump likes private meetings vs e-mail! He pisses all over the internet with Twitter BUT does a lot of his campaigning on a one to one basis.

by Anonymousreply 82June 11, 2017 4:56 PM

[quote]Sadly, I'm afraid HRC's time has passed.

Well, she has stated many times post election that she is now a private citizen. She has retired and is on video, only that those that hate her keep using disinformation to make the public bash her.

by Anonymousreply 83June 11, 2017 4:58 PM

[quote] Joe Biden said Friday that he knew a month before the 2016 election that Hillary Clinton would lose key battleground states.

Lots of people knew. And all were shouted down or called Boris whevener they tried to mention the $1.2 billion Titanic was sailing into the iceberg. Gruppenführer David Brock and his trolls earned their pay.

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by Anonymousreply 84June 11, 2017 4:59 PM

Is she dead yet?

by Anonymousreply 85June 11, 2017 5:03 PM

STFU Joe Biden. I agree with him 100%, but there's no need to tell this to the media. What an asshole

by Anonymousreply 86June 11, 2017 5:06 PM

[quote] Yes, Hillary received more votes than Barack Obama in the 2008 primaries.

Again, it needs to be pointed out that Hillary only received more votes than Obama in 2008 if you include Michigan, where Obama's name WASN'T EVEN ON THE BALLOT. Hillary got 328,000 votes in Michigan. Obama got zero because he wasn't on the ballot. It's only because of this technicality that Clinton was able to surpass Obama's vote total. So it's ridiculous to claim that Hillary got more votes. If Obama had been on the ballot in Michigan, his vote total in the 2008 primaries would have surpassed Hillary's. Plus, it doesn't really matter anyway because primaries have never been decided based on popular vote.

Popular Vote Totalttt17,535,458t48.1%t17,493,836t48.0%ttttObama +41,622t+0.1% Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA*ttt17,869,542t48.2%t17,717,698t47.8%ttttObama +151,844t+0.4% Popular Vote (w/MI)**ttt17,535,458t47.4%t17,822,145t48.1%ttttClinton +286,687t+0.8%

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by Anonymousreply 87June 11, 2017 5:06 PM

r79, knock that shit off. On the same wiki page you took that graphic from: The Official Popular Vote was Obama 17,535,458, Clinton 17,493,836. That is the OFFICIAL count based on ballots legitimately cast in Democratic Primaries. Michigan's was not a legitimate primary. They did not follow the rules. Every other candidate removed their name from the ballot in order to reinforce party discipline, but Hillary kept her name on it, in the hopes of using those uncontested 300k votes to sway superdelegates. That's about as legitimate as the Cleveland Cavaliers announcing that they played Game 5 last night without the Warriors and the final score was 300-0, Cavs win!

Just fucking stop. Pointing out Hillary's tendency to fuck with rules when they're not working for her doesn't make the outcome of 2016 seems less just, simply more poetic. I voted for her without reservation. I, and every other person who voted for Clinton, do not deserve Trump. But at a deeply personal level, Hillary deserved to get her ass handed to her by Trump powered by the angry white voters her and her husband coddled their entire political careers.

by Anonymousreply 88June 11, 2017 5:19 PM

I will never vote for Biden. Give up, Joe -- you're too old and your time has passed.

by Anonymousreply 89June 11, 2017 5:25 PM

R87 There where not enough votes in Michigan for Obama to win the popular vote over Clinton in 2008. She still would have ended up with 48% percent of the vote over Obama's 47%. Unless you are implying Obama would have won Michigan by 95% of the vote. Even in 2016 Sanders only barely beat her in Michigan by [bold]one[/bold] percent.

Hillary won the popular vote over Obama, Sanders, and Trump and you need to get over it.

by Anonymousreply 90June 11, 2017 5:27 PM

Hillary supporters are walking abacuses. They always have to be.

by Anonymousreply 91June 11, 2017 5:30 PM

[quote] Hillary only received more votes than Obama in 2008 if you include Michigan, where Obama's name WASN'T EVEN ON THE BALLOT.

And remarkably the party fixers still awarded nearly half the delegates to Obama. Hillary 34.5 t Obama 29.5

by Anonymousreply 92June 11, 2017 5:31 PM

These politicians are in their SEVENTIES. They should be tending their little gardens, golfing, re-filling the bird feeders.

by Anonymousreply 93June 11, 2017 5:31 PM

[quote] Every other candidate removed their name from the ballot in order to reinforce party discipline

The Ruskies are working extra hours I see. No one removed themselves from the Michigan ballot, there were three candidates in the 2008 Democratic primaries in Michigan.

by Anonymousreply 94June 11, 2017 5:32 PM

THe Secret Service really dislikes Hillary and has spread lots of negative stories about her

by Anonymousreply 95June 11, 2017 5:51 PM

R95, she's not a likable person, but she was and is a good politician. She would have been a way better president than almost anyone who ran this year. But she ran a flawed campaign. If she ran a better campaign the she may have been able to overcome the external shit that happened.

by Anonymousreply 96June 11, 2017 6:19 PM

If she was a good politician she wouldn't be doing her Loserpalooza tour.

by Anonymousreply 97June 11, 2017 6:20 PM

[quote]considering the nakedly racist arguments he made against Barack in 08

Bill wasn't running for president, Hillary was. Her mistake in 2008 was trusting him not to say anything inappropriate, which her staff warned her he might.

And here in 2008 we can see how Clinton was winning the white working class vote over Obama, at least in the primaries.

What changed in 2016 wasn't that she (or Bill) were "racist," it was that for 8 years, the white working class was being hammered by the Republicans about how we were all going to die because a scary Muslim and Black Lives Matter apologist was in office, and Clinton was his surrogate, someone who would continue his scary brownskinned legacy. She lost the vote because of what was basically the Southern Strategy Part II.

There were other problems, absolutely, and Bill Clinton is not as progressive about black people as he imagines he is, but I think your comment is far too simplistic to explain what happened.

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by Anonymousreply 98June 11, 2017 6:23 PM

[quote] There where not enough votes in Michigan for Obama to win the popular vote over Clinton in 2008.

Yes, there were. If you don't count Michigan, Obama had a 41, 622 vote lead over Clinton (17,535,458-17,493,836). See the link. That means, if you assume that both Obama and Clinton had been on the ballot in Michigan, in order for Clinton to overtake Obama in the "popular vote" (which doesn't really exist anyway), she would have had to win Michigan by more than 41,622 votes.

[quote] Unless you are implying Obama would have won Michigan by 95% of the vote.

Where the fuck are you getting that number from? Now, you're just making shit up.

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by Anonymousreply 99June 11, 2017 6:30 PM

[quote]Hillary won the popular vote over Obama, Sanders, and Trump and you need to get over it.

Elections have rules. Michigan did not follow the rules. Michigan's votes did not count. Your "Clinton won the popular vote if you count ineligible votes" is identical to Trump's reasoning for how he lost the popular vote. I imagine you had no problem recognizing that was bullshit. You need to accept that your argument is shit.

by Anonymousreply 100June 11, 2017 6:31 PM

I knew it was over for her when Bill's rape face became a meme.

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by Anonymousreply 101June 11, 2017 6:32 PM

[quote] What changed in 2016 wasn't that she (or Bill) were "racist," it was that for 8 years, the white working class was being hammered by the Republicans about how we were all going to die because a scary Muslim and Black Lives Matter apologist was in office, and Clinton was his surrogate, someone who would continue his scary brownskinned legacy.

The other thing that changed is that in 2008, Hillary went to churches, small-town diners, family farms, etc., and mingled with actual working class voters. She campaigned like her life depended on it. In 2016, she ignored all of that in favor of large rallies and fundraisers with Hollywood celebrities. Her campaign made the miscalculation that the voters she courted so actively in 2008 didn't matter in 2016.

by Anonymousreply 102June 11, 2017 6:47 PM

It's pretty simple. She couldn't do what she did in 2008 because of her health.

by Anonymousreply 103June 11, 2017 6:50 PM

[quote]What changed in 2016 wasn't that she (or Bill) were "racist,"

Accepting up front how silly it is of me to speculate about the inner workings of WJC's mind -- I don't think anything changed at all from his perspective. Hillary losing proved him right -- America wasn't ready to elect a black President. If Obama had just waited his turn and put his Magical Negro powers to work for Hillary in 2008 she would've won and ushered in another bounteous Clinton Era, and then Trump never would've happened and Obama could've run and won in 2016. (In his alternate history, I think if Obama hadn't ran in 08 we would've been trying to drag Hillary across the finish line just like we did last year, maybe it would've worked, maybe not.)

I'm sure Bill Clinton has a lot of genuine affection for black people, but he is every inch the kind of white moderate that MLK warned us about, preferring comfort over justice. And his entire political life has been governed by the idea that white votes matter the most, you're not really winning unless you've got a majority of white voters behind you. Yes, that's fucking racist.

And I originally made the point about him as justification for why the Obamas would personally dislike him, he did everything short of call Obama uppity. It had nothing to do with how the campaigns or times differed.

by Anonymousreply 104June 11, 2017 6:51 PM

r101, that really should be his official presidential portrait

by Anonymousreply 105June 11, 2017 6:51 PM

Hillary tragically miscalculated that people disliked Trump more than they disliked her

by Anonymousreply 106June 11, 2017 6:56 PM

The great sadness of Hillary.

by Anonymousreply 107June 11, 2017 6:59 PM

R102 I think they also thought social media would pick up the slack, and I suspect (but don't know) that they were trying to save money.

by Anonymousreply 108June 11, 2017 7:03 PM

R25, she is likely not running again. That PAC will help a lot of women dems get elected and she can have a major voice in the party that way. Plus, unlike Bernie, she's a real dem.

by Anonymousreply 109June 11, 2017 7:05 PM

[quote]He wants to run for President. Hillary probably wants too, again - she's already making her moves, setting up the Onward Together PAC.

I don't think she does and I don't understand why do you want to push that scenario? Is it just to trigger BernBros?

by Anonymousreply 110June 11, 2017 7:13 PM

[quote] That PAC will help a lot of women dems get elected and she can have a major voice in the party that way.

Well, one woman dem anyhow, and having that "major voice" can start the "charity foundation" cash flowing again.

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by Anonymousreply 111June 11, 2017 7:16 PM

R53, I think that story is horseshit. I do believe that Obama wasn't fond of Bill. He's much cooler and more cerebral, plus Bill got a lot more done, so there may have been a bit of jealously. Then there is the impeachment, which is a bit distasteful, particularly to someone who values fidelity. But Bill never would have made that first comment in the story. It would have come off as racist, which Bill is not. I also don't believe that Michelle EVER called Hillary a name. She was very aware of the nicknames and rude comments of some people about her that made its way to social media. She can be tough but she's not that thoughtless. So if the Post is having to make up quotes, I think the whole story is made up.

by Anonymousreply 112June 11, 2017 7:16 PM

R111, you've been reading too much gossip. Try reading actual information for a change.

by Anonymousreply 113June 11, 2017 7:17 PM

Let's all be happy that Bernie crashed and burned and is not our president.

by Anonymousreply 114June 11, 2017 7:19 PM

Why are the Democrats terrified to lay the blame where it lies? Without Philadelphia, PA is a red state, likewise MI with Detroit, OH and Cleveland and WI and Milwaukee. And what do all of those cities have in common?

by Anonymousreply 115June 11, 2017 7:19 PM

This may be more to your liking, R111:

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by Anonymousreply 116June 11, 2017 7:22 PM

This guy, Mike Farb, is doing an amazing job investigating voting issues nationwide. He posted some stuff on twitter that should be at this link about Wisconsin that is mind blowing. Also they are looking at math models to show there was something very hinky going on with the local voting in various places, despite protestations to the contrary by voting officials. His information is going to be crucial in making sure the Russians and their republican buddies don't get away with it again.

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by Anonymousreply 117June 11, 2017 7:26 PM

Bullshit! Bill might have been a horn dog, but not a racist. It is idiotic to say that when he was advising Obama when his administration was transitioning to the White House.

The misogynistic BernBros/Deplorables are triggered again.

1)Hillary won the popular vote

2)the Clintons worked their ass off to help Obama get elected.

3) Bernie got his ass handed to him in 2016.

4)It took colluding and hacking of our government in order to defeat Hillary Clinton in 2016.

by Anonymousreply 118June 11, 2017 7:28 PM

That should be a car sticker, R118.

by Anonymousreply 119June 11, 2017 7:29 PM

R117 where did you get that link? Here in Dl were talked about some strange things going on in Florida and Arizona on election night.

I'll take a look at your link.

by Anonymousreply 120June 11, 2017 7:31 PM

Biden can fuck off. Sexist jerk ignoring a hacked election.

by Anonymousreply 121June 11, 2017 7:35 PM

Oh god, Fox News is now using Bernie Sanders to slam Democrats. When is Tom Perez going to pull the cord? And doesn't he realize when Sanders is criticizing the Democratic leadership, he means Tom Perez?

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by Anonymousreply 122June 11, 2017 7:43 PM

Good job Bernie this is all your useful for these days is "dems in disarray"

by Anonymousreply 123June 11, 2017 7:49 PM

Biden is such an asshole. Fuck him.

by Anonymousreply 124June 11, 2017 7:55 PM

Honest question: which Dems do I contact to ask to please stop having Bernie speak for the party? Pelosi? Perez?

by Anonymousreply 125June 11, 2017 8:05 PM

r125 He's not speaking for the party, this is Bernie being bernie. He's a fraud and I hope he and his wife are indicted for fraud

by Anonymousreply 126June 11, 2017 8:13 PM

DL has a lot of the old establishment democrats and liberal elites who are hopefully being deposed by fresh millennial and working class blood

by Anonymousreply 127June 11, 2017 8:14 PM

I thought this was a "unity tour" or some such thing?

by Anonymousreply 128June 11, 2017 8:18 PM

Unfortunately R125, he already used Perez, using the Democratic platform, to get his message out. So now, he can do this on his own speaking as a non-democrat. He basically wants to destroy the Democratic party so a third party is viable.

I have no doubt that the NRA and the big Timber are still filling his pockets with money.

by Anonymousreply 129June 11, 2017 8:24 PM

Biden has been angry with Hillary and the DNC since then forced him to withdraw from running. Really angry. He did not blame Obama.

I do think they tried to give him some time. But at some point, the business of politics can wait no longer.

by Anonymousreply 130June 11, 2017 8:41 PM

Bernie and Biden - the two B's. Add a third: Boring.

by Anonymousreply 131June 11, 2017 8:47 PM

R120, Claude Taylor and some other people on Twitter kept mentioning him. They retweeted some of his stuff. I checked his site out and his tweets and started following him myself. Votesleuth, another website, mentions him as well, and does some of their own stuff.

This whole past election and maybe some before that stink to high heaven. I've just started looking at this stuff but want to spend some more time reading the information and possibly donating to the Farb's site. It is amazing how the party in charge, typically republican, DOES NOT want votes recounted and goes to great lengths to avoid a paper trail and then to stop any sniffing around afterwards.

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by Anonymousreply 132June 11, 2017 8:47 PM

r125 No one forced him to withdraw. Sure the powers that be were behind HIllary, that's including Obama, but it's his choice. He's been in politics long enough to know you don't need establishment to win an election. I have no doubt he would have come in third place as he sucks as a candidate outside Delaware.

by Anonymousreply 133June 11, 2017 8:52 PM

MI, WI, PA were the "blue wall" that would give Hillary the win. She didn't even need to campaign there.

We will not be ignored!

by Anonymousreply 134June 11, 2017 9:11 PM

Hillary Clinton sucks, as do her die hard supporters. She lost to Donald Trump is all that needs be said.

She is the worst.

by Anonymousreply 135June 11, 2017 9:15 PM

She campaigned heavily in Pennsylvania, r134. She just didn't count on rural Pennsylvania turning out as heavily as they did and her only advertising was "I'm not Trump"..

by Anonymousreply 136June 11, 2017 9:16 PM

Hillary is a great candiate. Her problem was Faux News and teh GOP have been sand bagging her since her husband was in office. People didn't like her, could not say why but just didn't like her. So they went with Trump. Biden should have ran. He would have won easily.

by Anonymousreply 137June 11, 2017 9:19 PM

And embracing the "nasty women" mantra was a mistake. It's the kind of radical liberal feminist snark that works well in Manhattan and San Francisco, but repels folks in middle America

by Anonymousreply 138June 11, 2017 9:21 PM

Wow, I cannot see 134, 135,136. Boris must be doing overtime to meet his quota.

R137, Biden would have lost in the primaries because his internal polling showed he was underperforming with Hispanics, blacks, and women. He and Bernie would've been competing for the same Demographic which would have made it easier for Clinton to win.

by Anonymousreply 139June 11, 2017 9:31 PM

r139 Or.....ORR...He competes with Clinton for the sane, we can't stand Bernie vote.

by Anonymousreply 140June 11, 2017 9:35 PM

Sorry, Joe, you're too old. I'd vote for you, but the Dems need a fresh face and a winner.

Hillary would have made a great president. This fucking nightmare we're living through now with douchebag Trump is a disgrace.

by Anonymousreply 141June 11, 2017 9:42 PM

Great now I talk shit about the delicate snowflake that is R139 and he won't even know it.

Can someone please explain the need to call people that you don't ageee with, "Boris"? I'm a left of center independent who happily supported Clinton, yet asshats like R139 think if you don't support their agenda 100% you must be Boris and will therefore ignorantly and gleefully announce that they are shutting down all conversation. I am currently fighting with my deplorable sister who has the exact same mentality as R139. This country really is turning into a cesspool.

by Anonymousreply 142June 11, 2017 9:49 PM

"she's not a likable person"

I wouldn't take the pronouncements of some random on the internet as gospel, and even if true, why should we trust their opinion, "the secret service hated her" is about as verifiable and newsworthy as "I heard from Tina that Gina's totally a bitch behind your back y'all".

If you want to believe some random, I can drop my own "heard it from someone" pronunciation, which is that she was well respected by people who worked under her in the state department: a scrupulously fair, straight-shooter.

by Anonymousreply 143June 11, 2017 9:52 PM

R137, you can't be a great candidate if the rest of what you said is true. Her baggage and unpopularity in Middle America made her a horrid candidate

by Anonymousreply 144June 11, 2017 10:02 PM

[quote] Or.....ORR...He competes with Clinton for the sane, we can't stand Bernie vote.

His demographic was not the same as hers. Hillary was known as an activist and she always run for the minority/ or disenfranchised angle.

People forget Obama beat her by winning the white more conservative vote in the primary. He actually lost to her with minorities. Biden and Sanders would have been competing for the same base. Splitting the white young male vote in half.

by Anonymousreply 145June 11, 2017 10:02 PM

R143, this went back to her time as First Lady. The MSM basically called her a bitch because they couldn't get complete access. They were pissed off by her healthcare work and pushed hard to get disclosure of who attended these meetings. Note that we still don't know who attended Dick Cheney's energy meetings. They went with every nasty innuendo during Whitewater and anything Ken Starr could drum up, even though he was spending millions on a fishing expedition. And they made fun of her for talking about the "rightwing conspiracy" even though we are now living it. I think they all thought she'd win, like everyone else, and then they could spend the next 4 or 8 years taking potshots at her every day. Maureen Dowd is a good example of the hatred even though she's a columnist, which just means she can be a little more direct in her hatred. In fact, I think there are many of them who are glad she lost, with eyes toward getting a Pulitzer for covering Trump's craziness. But they refuse to take any responsibility for her loss. Of course, every time she gives and interview or a speech, they have to take some piece out of context, accusing her of not accepting responsibility for her loss or acting like she has said something completely controversial and ridiculous. And whenever any rightwing politicians mentions Benghazi or emails, they have to cover it, getting every trashy remark and acting like it is the truth.

by Anonymousreply 146June 11, 2017 10:15 PM

This kind of fucking shit is why the Dems aren't in control of the House or the Senate. This kind of shit is why a damned lunatic like trump won. This is why the repugs are probably going to keep control of the House and the Senate. Because dems are fucking idiots. IDIOTS. Why is Biden sticking a knife in Hillary? The republicans have already done a great job. They don't need Joe's help. THE ELECTION IS OVER. HILLARY LOST. YES, SHE LOST. It's time to get over it. We have a fucking lunatic in office and the dems are going on and on about the election. trump is going to stay in office if the Democrats do not start over and rejuvenate their party. They need to do that this very second. And yet they are doing nothing. Not a DAMNED THING. I guarantee you they will run their party business as fucking usual during the next 4 years. And that means losing. L-O-S-I-N-G

They can learn a thing from this last election. Running the same old campaign like Hillary did will not work. IT WON'T. And I know many people don't like Bernie (and I hate to say this because this will turn into a debate about Bernie), but they need to realize how he got so many voters (and young voters) to come out and vote for him. And this is why trump won, because people are sick of both parties. They want someone who isn't business as usual. And unfortunately for most of them trump has actually turned out to be a business as usual republican, but basically on steroids. But they still think he has their best interests at heart. And they'd still vote for him if there were an election tomorrow. The Democrats need to change. NOW

by Anonymousreply 147June 11, 2017 10:31 PM

Does 47th vice president of the United States Joe Biden have anything to say about the DNC rigging the presidential primaries for Hillary Clinton and against Bernie Sanders?

Does Vice President Joe Biden have anything to say about nearly 100 percent of the Democratic Party establishment getting behind Hillary Clinton and what it says about the party establishment?

Does Vice President Joe Biden have anything to say about his own judgment endorsing re-nomination, to Florida's 23rd Congressional District, for U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz? The primary there was August 30, 2016, one month after the WikiLeaks DNC e-mails hit which forced the ouster of then-DNC chair Wasserman Schultz. (She did have a primary challenger, Tim Canova.)

by Anonymousreply 148June 11, 2017 11:28 PM

I realyl like Biden and I'm not a huge fan of Clinton's, but I'm sick of this shit where Dems go negative on other Dems. I mean for fuck sake, even the shitty Republicans have managed to go silent on the most atrocious, orange creature to waddle his way into the WH, because they know how to put their disgusting party/agenda first.

by Anonymousreply 149June 11, 2017 11:30 PM

really*

by Anonymousreply 150June 11, 2017 11:39 PM

Hell, r149, Miss Lindsay was even on Face The Nation today defending Trump -- that's how much these fuckers stick together.

by Anonymousreply 151June 11, 2017 11:42 PM

R149 writes, "I realyl like Biden and I'm not a huge fan of Clinton's, but I'm sick of this shit where Dems go negative on other Dems."

Oh, God!

The Democratic Party hasn't had enough negativity within their ranks. They were asleep while Barack Obama was in office as the 44th president of the United States because, and this was all that mattered, the White House was in the column of the Democratic Party.

Meanwhile, income inequality got worse, Obama increased wars, and Obama, the Clintons, the Third Way kinds (plus the U.S. Senate's Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer) tried to hijack the party into a craven, Wall Street-serving political party with Wall Street-friendly Senate candidates (to get them nominated over actual progressives) like Florida's Patrick Murphy and Pennsylvania's Katie McGinty, both of whom lost deservedly.

Yes, let's get behind and support this piece of shit neoliberal Democratic Party - which speaks to the people during campaigns but is on their knees for Wall Street, the banks, the pharmaceuticals, and says they are supportive of universal health care while the likes of Sens. Tom Carper and Chris Coons, from Delaware, Cory Booker and Bob Menendez, from New Jersey, and Patty Murray and Maria Cantrell, from Washington, vote against lower drug prices. Remember - this is, according to Nancy Pelosi (who was speaker of the House only for four years; that the Republicans have had the House the other 18 years; impeachment is off the table for George W, Bush), is a "Big Tent" party. By "Big Tent," she means big business with big money - for her and her Democrats in the House.

Where is this party on single payer Medicare for All? (Last I looked, not one Democrat from the Senate supports it. So, there's no reason to support them.)

by Anonymousreply 152June 11, 2017 11:43 PM

R6 - you haven't been here long, have you? Many posters think she was a perfect candidate.

In SHATTERED, it was pointed out that Joe realized the establishment was so in the tank for her that no one could overcome it. (my words, not theirs)

by Anonymousreply 153June 11, 2017 11:53 PM

Hills ruined it.

by Anonymousreply 154June 11, 2017 11:57 PM

[quote][R6] - you haven't been here long, have you? Many posters think she was a perfect candidate.

[quote]In SHATTERED, it was pointed out that Joe realized the establishment was so in the tank for her that no one could overcome it. (my words, not theirs)

Many? I would disagree. But I agree that there were many who thought that she was one of the most knowledgeable candidates we've ever had.

One day, a book like Shattered will come out about Sanders, and it won't be pretty. And it will be as subjective as any book that tries to tell the whole story. If you are bitter about Sanders losing, why not look at the problems within his campaign?

by Anonymousreply 155June 11, 2017 11:57 PM

The funniest thing about the election was any other Republican would have wiped the floor with Hillary. Any other Democrat would have wiped the floor with Trump.

by Anonymousreply 156June 12, 2017 12:02 AM

[quote] I mean for fuck sake

Ahem. For fuck's sake. For the sake of fuck.

by Anonymousreply 157June 12, 2017 12:17 AM

Just my two cents here. I think Hillary lost because of those god-awful commercials that ran every five seconds, showing little girls shocked, SHOCKED (!) at the language Donald Trump was using. Okay, one of those ads would be fine, but it seemed to be the whole thrust of her campaign. Why did she invest so much trust in this idiot Mook, who basically lost her the Presidency?

by Anonymousreply 158June 12, 2017 12:41 AM

The woman lost because the electoral system sucks and we have a segment of the population who would vote for a literal pile of shit if it had an "R" next to it, because they're in absolute denial as to their place in this country.

Do they really think they're sticking it to wealthy, liberal elites when they vote Republican? Wealthy, liberal elites vote Dem knowing their taxes are going to go up, so what's the excuse for low income white people voting GOP? LBJ had them pegged. They're an ignorant lot who will fuck themselves over solely out of spite towards his/her fellow low income citizens who are not white. They are too ignorant to comprehend that Trump would rather play with a shiny orb along side wealthy Muslims (as he did long before his run for president) than ever be in the company of the types of people who vote for him and think he's like them.

by Anonymousreply 159June 12, 2017 12:48 AM

Having said all this why aren't I 50 points ahead you might ask.

by Anonymousreply 160June 12, 2017 12:52 AM

There is plenty of blame to go around R158. Don't blame Mook for Hillary losing since she didn't have the common sense to fire him. She surrounded herself with these people and apparently not one of them gave her the advice she needed to win. Bill was telling her what she needed to do, but she ignored him. Maybe it was her ego saying she wanted to do this on her own without Bill's help.

by Anonymousreply 161June 12, 2017 12:53 AM

She should have known how disliked she was and tried to soften her cold imagine

by Anonymousreply 162June 12, 2017 1:31 AM

IMAge

by Anonymousreply 163June 12, 2017 1:48 AM

I've never been a Hillary fan R162, but I have heard she is very warm in person. Either CNN or MSNBC was showing a video of her during the primary, I don't even remember where she was or what it was about, but at that moment I said I really like that Hillary. It was the first time I felt I had seen the real her instead of the campaigner. I said to myself more people need to see that side of her. Strangely I only saw that side of her that one moment.

by Anonymousreply 164June 12, 2017 1:48 AM

[quote] She should have known how disliked she was and tried to soften her cold imagine

2016 WAS her being warm

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by Anonymousreply 165June 12, 2017 1:55 AM

This is the only time I've ever seen Hillary warm and genuine.

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by Anonymousreply 166June 12, 2017 1:59 AM

AND, r147, the Democrats in office are STILL not doing or saying anything about voter purges by Republicans or corrupted voting machines produced by Republican-owned companies. They might be the Minority party in power, but members still have access to microphones.

by Anonymousreply 167June 12, 2017 5:33 AM

Remember when the DL used to scream there is no voter fraud?

by Anonymousreply 168June 12, 2017 6:13 AM

[quote]Bill was telling her what she needed to do, but she ignored him. Maybe it was her ego saying she wanted to do this on her own without Bill's help.

Setting aside the whole "the woman should have listened to her man" tone of this argument, people conveniently forget how much Bill has screwed up over the years.

In 2008, he was the main source of the so-called "racist" comments about Obama, and his relationship with Obama is strained to the point of it affecting Hillary. Aides in 2008 urged her at least once to cancel an appearance by Bill because his anger was turning into​ inappropriate comments about Obama being unworthy. There are more examples in that Newsweek article linked upthread.

Then in 2016 he does that ridiculous stunt with Lynch on the plane.

If you can't see big reasons why Bill would have been sidelined, then your not paying attention. And I'd he was sidelined, it was his own doing.

by Anonymousreply 169June 12, 2017 6:52 AM

Yes Hillary did plenty wrong, include having a private email server and being a lazy, largely absent campaigner. But Bill's stupid meeting at an airport Lynch is a but for cause of Hillary's epic defeat.

by Anonymousreply 170June 12, 2017 10:12 AM

I recall pundits asking where Hillary was and why she has such a light and uninspiring campaign strategy. Meanwhile, I remember Trump have four huge rallies in one day in four cities! He loved huge raucous crowds and rallies and would hold them late into the night. Hillary seemed afraid of rallies and interacting with large groups of common People, although media frequently noted she was off in Hollywood fundraising

by Anonymousreply 171June 12, 2017 10:18 AM

[quote] [R25], she is likely not running again. That PAC will help a lot of women dems get elected and she can have a major voice in the party that way.

LOL, come on. You can't be this naive.

[quote] Plus, unlike Bernie, she's a real dem.

Yes, as we all know, political labels have more impact on people's lives than actual ideological positions. That's why Manchin is good, because he's anti-Trump. His actual positions don't matter.

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by Anonymousreply 172June 12, 2017 1:31 PM

R169 Don't put words in my mouth. I was not saying she should listen to a man. He was telling her she needs to get in touch with the working class, she wasn't spending enough time in the swing states (that she lost) and she was spending too much time away from the campaign trail. She didn't have to have him out there campaigning for her. I don't care if it is a man or a woman, but take the advice of the person that successfully ran for president. There is a reason why Hillary lost to Barack and to Trump, she ran a lousy campaign and she can't connect to people. This presidency was hers to lose and she did it spectacularly.

by Anonymousreply 173June 12, 2017 1:38 PM

Reality check for the die-hard Hillary supporters who keep talking about "old white" Sanders and Biden ...

Hillary Clinton = 69 years old

Joe Biden = 74 years old

Bernie Sanders = 75 years old

They're all OLD. They can call themselves "young at heart" but on the spectrum of age they are on the OLD side. Hillary is an elderly white woman. Nothing wrong with that, but let's not act like she's Beyonce. And let's not pretend 5 or 6 years is that big of a difference between candidates. It's time for new blood.

I could kiss David Plouffe for outmaneuvering Hillary in the '08 primaries and saving us from 4 to 8 more years of Clintons.

by Anonymousreply 174June 12, 2017 2:06 PM

[quote]He was telling her she needs to get in touch with the working class

That Newsweek article made it pretty clear that she WAS in touch with the white working class in 2008 and didn't even win the nomination. Why would she try to get in touch with them again in 2016, when their votes didn't help her before? And after years of Republican lies and bullshit pushing the white working class even further to the racist, fundie right than they were back in 2008? I can absolutely understand why she didn't court that vote again.

I think her mistake was in not realizing how many of the Independent and Democratic voters would stay home. But she couldn't have prepared for the Comey letter which caused a lot of that, and even though she said straight up that Trump was a Russian puppet, there wasn't anything she could do about the Russian fake news, trolls, and voting registration/machine hacking.

In a normal non-hacked non-Comey election, she would have won without the white working class vote.

by Anonymousreply 175June 12, 2017 2:14 PM

And I want to say that I don't understand why people are saying that

(a) it was racist for her to point out that she had the white working class vote in the 2008 primaries, and

(b) she doesn't have the white working class vote.

You can't have it both ways. Obama didn't have the white working class vote the way you claim he did. He got some of that demo's support in 2008 but in 2012 lost roughly 5% of his base, widely considered to be mostly white working class voters who went Repub or didn't vote. In 2016, the white working class vote for Dems dwindled even more.

Obama won without much of the white working class vote, but the Republicans chipped away at that demographic for 8 years. This is the Republican's Southern Strategy Part II and you're not willing to see it. Instead you want to shriek that Hillary didn't know what she was doing, when it looks very much like she did.

by Anonymousreply 176June 12, 2017 2:20 PM

First off, you are the one using "white" working class. Saint Hillary fucked up. She called people deplorables. Whether you agree with that or not it showed a disdain for a voting bloc of people. She has always had an arrogant attitude and that just solidified it. While Trump was campaigning she was resting or doing fund raisers with wealthy people. She gave an attitude that she was owned the presidency. Hillary lost, to Obama and Trump, because she's not a national candidate. She should have run for governor of NY or mayor of NYC.

by Anonymousreply 177June 12, 2017 3:36 PM

Is it really true that Hillary didn't do much campaigning? Didn't she launch her campaign with a listening tour? I remember something about an incognito stop in a Chipotle. I did a quick Google search and came up with an article from October that said she and Trump had logged about the same mileage. Trump had more days but Hillary had more stops. He did appear to pick it up at the time of the article. Nonetheless, this idea that she sat on her ass only doing Hollywood fundraisers strikes me as retro-fitting reality to fit a narrative.

by Anonymousreply 178June 12, 2017 3:45 PM

Joe & Hillary were never besties. He got along with her well in the Senate, but Jill was always very jealous of Hillary and she wanted Joe to run and be POTUS. She has been encouraging Joe to be POTUS for years. IF he had run it would've been the third time...and he would have lost for a third time. Joe is a mile wide and 18 of an inch deep. He ought to thank Barack Obama every day for giving him his time in the sun. Because that's all there is. Joe is also a patronizing piece of shit when it comes to women.

by Anonymousreply 179June 12, 2017 3:59 PM

[quote] That's why Manchin is good, because he's anti-Trump.

I meant "a Democrat", instead of "anti-Trump", because clearly this Manchin is not.

by Anonymousreply 180June 12, 2017 4:02 PM

[quote]He ought to thank Barack Obama every day for giving him his time in the sun.

I almost died when Obama chose Biden as his VP because the guy is just notoriously undisciplined (and a consistent loser on the national stage) but I'll be damned if Obama didn't put him to work in a way that made him likeable. Similar deal with Hillary. Obama put her in the job where she could shine AND be liked. She was a damn fool not to take her high SoS approval rating, put it to use as a private citizen and never run for office again. But always with the more, more, more, if people just let me lead everything would be better. If she'd won, we'd still have a shitshow in D.C. (and probably no new SCOTUS member). The Repubs were never going to let her do anything. Why do we have all these senior citizens clamoring for a job that for a Dem largely consists of absorbing body blows?

by Anonymousreply 181June 12, 2017 4:33 PM

[quote]If she'd won, we'd still have a shitshow in D.C. (and probably no new SCOTUS member).

You really think the Republicans could just force the SCOTUS to be short a member for 4-8 years? They couldn't have pulled it off.

And it's baffling that people like you honestly believe Clinton would be just as bad as Trump. No one has ever been this bad. We are in a literal national crisis, but I guess you missed it.

by Anonymousreply 182June 12, 2017 4:37 PM

Why couldn't they pull it off, r182? What is it about the modern Republican Party that makes you think they don't have the ability to trot out some fucking nonsensical excuse and use their votes to back it up? What they did to Merrick Garland was unprecedented, obscene, and a gross dereliction of their basic fucking duty. Newsflash: THEY GOT AWAY WITH IT. Voters didn't care. It wasn't an issue in the election. Why would they stop when they were getting away with it?

[quote]but I guess you missed it

Says the guy who thinks we just need to find the right white guy to ask the Republican caucus: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency? And then they'll behave!

I didn't say Clinton would be as bad as Trump. Sorry I didn't make it clear enough for you that the shitshow in DC would look different than what we have now. In case you missed it, Congress was a shitshow prior to Trump being sworn in. Without a change in majority, that wasn't going to change for any Dem president. It's part of what made all the bitter gnashing and wailing during the primary a fucking waste of energy (great job spoiled white kids vs. spoiled middle aged white women).

by Anonymousreply 183June 12, 2017 4:59 PM

Anyone watch the Tony Awards last night? They gave a standing ovation to Biden's wife, in clear support of him.

by Anonymousreply 184June 12, 2017 6:05 PM

Support of what? That he was too chicken to challenge cunt clinton?

by Anonymousreply 185June 12, 2017 11:33 PM

[quote] Anyone watch the Tony Awards last night? They gave a standing ovation to Biden's wife

Who needs the white working class when you have Broadway casting directors and Cynthia Nixon.

[quote] I recall pundits asking where Hillary was and why she has such a light and uninspiring campaign strategy.

Surely they all understood she occasionally needed to recharge her batteries.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 186June 13, 2017 12:01 AM

Yep.

by Anonymousreply 187April 23, 2018 5:40 PM

So many Russian trolls in this thread. Biden/Harris 2020!

by Anonymousreply 188September 7, 2020 10:25 PM

I PREFER RUSSIAN TROLLS TO BUMP TROLLS YOU FUCKFACED ASSHOLE

by Anonymousreply 189September 7, 2020 10:28 PM

Bump Cunt is on a rampage again. He's been doing this for so many years I'm starting to wonder if he's fucking paid for it.

by Anonymousreply 190September 7, 2020 10:31 PM

The best news this week was seeing Biden in Michigan. He's not repeating the mistakes made in 2016.

by Anonymousreply 191September 12, 2020 2:23 AM

What R4 said

by Anonymousreply 192September 12, 2020 2:26 AM

I know. He’s really campaigning now

by Anonymousreply 193September 12, 2020 2:27 AM

Trolls trolls trolls

How do you like it How do you like it

by Anonymousreply 194September 12, 2020 2:27 AM

[quote] Former Vice President Joe Biden said Friday that he knew a month before the 2016 election that Hillary Clinton would lose key battleground states.

I wonder if he tried to tell her and she ignored his advice. She didn't listen to Bill either.

by Anonymousreply 195September 12, 2020 2:29 AM

Slam!

by Anonymousreply 196September 12, 2020 2:29 AM

President Obama offered a more nuanced analysis after the 2016 election.

[quote]But Mr. Obama also said she campaigned too cautiously. “If you think you’re winning, then you have a tendency, just like in sports, maybe to play it safer,” Mr. Obama said. The problem, Mr. Obama said, was that Democratic politicians were not communicating to these people “that we understand why they’re frustrated.”

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 197September 12, 2020 2:32 AM

Hillary Clinton would have made a great president.

by Anonymousreply 198September 12, 2020 2:36 AM

I don't totally blame Hillary for the Dems losing last Presidential election. I blame Obama, too. He aided and abetted the building pressure inside the anti-Dems demographic away from the big "educated" coastal cities. First responders who were angry at him not denouncing incidents of rioting and looting in American cities airing on live TV. Not calling out particular foreign groups whose ethnicities were bombing, terrorizing and beheading American hostages on the other side of the world. Condoning implicitly or explicitly undocumented aliens coming into this country unstopped. Too passive to be anything but overwhelmingly too political correct at all times, with the big long boring eloquent lofty speeches and statements. People unhappy with him, and the Dems--who wanted to look up to, identify with and be governed by a President who said and did the things they felt they couldn't out loud anymore that they were thinking themselves, even if inherently racist and horrible--saw their man in Trump. And facilitated electing him.

by Anonymousreply 199September 12, 2020 2:40 AM

Damn. Just as I was beginning to temporarily forget Biden’s unseemly affinity for Republicans you had to go and remind me.

by Anonymousreply 200September 12, 2020 2:44 AM

[quote] He's too old. He's got too much baggage, he's bigoted, and he's too cozy with the Republicans. He (and you, probably) are thinking "Hey, look at all the regressive young Millennials who like comfortable old grandpa figures who say centrist to lite-Republican things and pass them off as far left and socialist beliefs! I could totally win this!" But the problem is that there aren't enough of that demographic to win, and he isn't liked well enough by actual leftists/liberals or red state independents for them to turn out in any big number to get him elected. Not to mention that he's got this tendency to turn everything into an airing of grievances, and he's already pissed off Democrats who are tired of white dudes shitting all over Hillary Clinton just to score a couple of minutes of attention in the media. If he is the Dem candidate in 2020 then the Dems will lose, guaranteed.

Fuck off, Svetlana.

by Anonymousreply 201September 12, 2020 2:54 AM

Could Hillary plan an October surprise, with a few big rallies in the battleground states?

by Anonymousreply 202September 21, 2020 7:28 PM

My, R201, aren’t you the defender. Way to tell off that guy who posted in 2017. Keep on trollin’!

by Anonymousreply 203September 21, 2020 7:58 PM

New: President @realDonaldTrump will visit Charlotte on Thursday. This is his 14th visit to North Carolina. Biden hasn’t been there at all during the general campaign season

by Anonymousreply 204September 21, 2020 8:04 PM

Let's hope, R202.

by Anonymousreply 205September 21, 2020 9:31 PM

We often complain about the short attention span of American voters in media, but sometimes it works in our favor. Who is thinking about Kenosha right now?

by Anonymousreply 206September 21, 2020 9:33 PM

I'm glad that someone has mastered the search on DL. I can't find threads that were posted yesterday, yet alone 3 years ago.

by Anonymousreply 207September 21, 2020 9:35 PM

I know Hillary has a new podcast, but I'd like to see her give some rallies in the Midwestern states.

Will Biden reach out to her?

by Anonymousreply 208October 7, 2020 11:33 PM

Ah. Trying to drive a wedge between Hillary voters and Biden.

Fuck off and die in a grease fire, or just die - no one really cares how you die because no one likes you, troll.

You'll die the same way you've lived, miserable, lower-class, alone, unhappy and unloved because you are unlovable.

by Anonymousreply 209October 7, 2020 11:44 PM

OP, we see you over there hiding behind your computer screen. Can you hear our voices? The ones whispering Fuck Off? The sound will reach you soon...

by Anonymousreply 210October 7, 2020 11:48 PM

We're all voting for Joe Biden. Nothing you can do about it now, asshole.

by Anonymousreply 211October 7, 2020 11:50 PM
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