Sen. Franken says Hillary should move on

I will never understand what these Democrats get out of the constant harping on "caring about" and "understanding" the Trump supporters.

The Trumpsters just laugh at their "I feel your pain" bullshit and the Democratic voters get pissed off at their own party. No good comes of it, so why keep doing it?

Also, a book just came out about the election and about a million people have offered their own opinion in countless articles and TV segments about why the election was lost.

What's with all these men telling the actual candidate she isn't allowed to add her voice to those who have already given an opinion?

R1, shut up.

Trump's base is an under-educated, under-employed, everything-phobic, schizophrenic mess that requires our compassion.

Franken has made a nuanced dig at the GOP.

The only good depolorable is a dead deplorable.

Franken is spot on! Hillary should move on. But then so should Biden, Sanders, Stein, the entire Kennedy dynasty and of course Franken.

Trump's base is all of that and worse, R3. No on in his right might would try to budge them. But there were decisive numbers of voters in districts that had supported Democratic candidates in the past, that went for Trump in 2016. And, hell yes, the Democratic Party should be identifying those voters and striving to persuade them to come back.

Clinton has been in public life for so long that minds are made up about her and set in stone.. My concern about her from the outset was that she could not add sufficient numbers of new people to those who supported her before she even started her campaign. And despite debating a blithering, petulant idiot three times on national television, she didn't sufficiently expand her base.

She should go do her Foundation work, or run for Governor of New York State.

[quote]R1, shut up.

Yes, R3, I should listen to someone as intelligent as you, because that "shut up" clearly indicates you're capable of educated and nuanced discourse.

You're the exact kind of person who should be deciding on an individual basis who is allowed to give their opinion and who isn't. Bravo, R3! Truly, you are a scholar for the ages.

[quote] But there were decisive numbers of voters in districts that had supported Democratic candidates in the past, that went for Trump in 2016.

You got a list of those districts handy?

Remember Al's on a book tour, and in his book he talks a lot about listening to and working on behalf of and being an advocate for his constituents. So this is a continuation of that message. He's positioning himself as the down-to-earth anti-diva to Clinton and Trump's self-absorbed divas. He's said that he doesn't want to run for president but he seems to be positioning himself for a more influential part in the Senate when the inevitable happens and the Democrats retake it. Senate Majority Leader Franken sounds pretty good right now.

He's right to a certain extent. The so-called deplorables became more intolerant because of the hate-mongering and misinformation from the right wing media over the last 20 years. The Democrats need to bring at least some of them onto their side be appealing to their best interests. Stop making it about left vs right, but the average person against corporate influence and special interests.

I'd would rather see Hillary becoming active in politics again than Bernie Sanders who is basically a useless fame whore who doesn't nave a substantial achievement to show in his long time in the senate and the house.

[quote]The so-called deplorables became more repelled by Dems because of the hate-mongering and misinformation from both the left-wing media and Dems themselves. See this thread for details.

Fixed.

R6 seems to have wandered off so I found an article at WaPo which shows counties that went for Obama in 2008 and/or 2012 but went Trump in 2016. It doesn't identify the counties themselves so I had to try to piece together which ones were marked on the map.

Take Crawford County, Kansas. It went Republican in 2016 and 2012, Dem in 2008, but only by 122 votes; they had to do a recount. It went Republican in 2004, 2000, and 1996 prior to that, so the 2008 results were a fluke, not the result of a formerly blue county going red because of dissatisfaction with the Democratic Party. Crawford County was always red.

How many counties like that are being counted as "proof" that the Democrats chased away voters?

How much research has been done to show that this is not a result of, say, Democrats moving out of purple or red areas? That people didn't change their vote because they were frightened by right-wing propaganda about BLM and terrorism and welfare queens?

I don't think ANY research has been done on that. And when someone like R6 shows up making this huge proclamation but then disappears when asked for proof, that really makes me wonder what's going on here.

R11, he's also a hypocrite in the largest sense of the word. He voted for Wall Street Deregulation, he did everything he could to sabotage passage of the Affordable Care Act, his stance on gun control goes far beyond supporting the 2nd Amendment, and he was on TV with Lou Dobbs fighting against the Immigration Reforms legislation, saying he had to oppose it because he wanted to "protect American jobs." Yet, inexplicably, he then voted against helping the automobile Industry from going out of business.

He's a grandstander and an opportunist. When you consider that Tad Devine worked for some of the same people Manafort worked for I find it very interesting that he went to Bernie to talk him into challenging Hillary. They were looking at challenging Obama in 2012, but realized it would never work. And then you had Romney telling everyone that Russia would be our biggest foreign policy challenge, and that wasn't helpful.. So if they did defeat Obama and get Romney it wouldn't really affect our foreign policy position against Russia, The whole, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend thing". Very "perplexing." Bernie hasn't got sense to realize he was being used. He loved the adulation he was getting and Janie was simply over the moon about his popularity even if he did sometimes have sharp elbows.

I have been a life long progressive lefty and I met many Bernie Sanders types in my life. They are political agitators that feed on patronizing their followers by telling them exactly what they want to hear. I quite often got into trouble with my friends warning them about those types, but more often than not I was right.

Sanders to me is the guy who protests the loudest about climate change but is the first to takes bribe money from the fossil fuel industry. There is a reason he only released one tax return.

Deplorables on the left and deplorables from the right gave us Trump.

It's a trick bag. The media get a few sound bites of Hillary, and they run it for a few news cycles underscoring her inadequacies, but failing to acknowledge that Hillary is asked at these events, to discuss the 2016 election. She's asked and she answers.

This is a Presidential candidate who won the popular vote by more than 3.5 Million margin. She handily defeated her opponent. Now, it's been confirmed that a foreign adversary tampered with our election. It is widely believed, based on developing evidence, that the candidate who did become President colluded with that foreign adversary.

And the Media, and other high profile political figures want to discuss Hillary's comments and press her to move on? Really? Fuck off. Franken especially knows how the media works.He knows if he had given any other answer, "Hillary was right. She should be our President." He would have changed the subject from his book tour to instead being about Hillary.

But he has books to sell, and he also knows that, defending Hillary on national TV of course, in our misogynistic world is toxic. So he made his comment and moved on. Does he really believe that? Maybe. But all these celebrity pundits and commentators are the ones who need to "move on." They keep asking her so they can pillory her some more. They need to continue to demonize her. Even Trump has now resurrected his "Crooked Hillary" line.

Our fucking Presidential election was stolen. And not by some corrupt political machine cronies who just wanted their LBJ in office instead of their Coke Stevens. This was a coup. Think about that. Putin hated Hillary and felt she was dangerous to his aims and he wanted her destroyed, politically. Thanks to Citizens United, the Russians have been spreading $$$ around and they have operatives in Congress and the Executive Branch and they are having their best days pissing all over the United States and they have Trump to thank. I would bet, though, that they have had GOP members of Congress in their pockets to obstruct Obama these passed several years too. One day, we may know, and pretend to be shocked.

Misogyny played a big part in this election, no halfway respectful person would have voted for Trump after that 'grab 'em by the pussy' video. Yet 60+ million Americans did, they absolutely didn't care that Trump was a crude disgusting pig.

The only thing here that needs moving on is the Democratic agenda. Let's talk about that. Though it's useful to dissect and understand how it all went wrong, we'll be hearing about this election until the next one and beyond, if the investigations continue. The American people, and many Democrats, are tired of Hillary's commentary. Some of us hear complaining and whining and not a winning strategy to take back this country from the oligarchs. Maybe because that's the agenda. They just want their oligarchs to be the winners. TIRED. ALL OF IT. It's why intelligent and reasonable republicans voted for something else. Not everyone with an R after their name on the rolls is an idiot. It's why Sanders wasn't the gentle pushback the Clinton campaign hoped for. Read the cards in front of you....people don't want her or the neolib agenda.

[quote]Read the cards in front of you....people don't want her or the neolib agenda.

Bravo R18! The first real piece of wisdom and common sense since November 2016.

In retrospect, I wonder how much of Obama's 2008 win in traditionally red counties can be attributed to people who voted against the candidate with a woman for VP? Palin would have been "a heartbeat away from the presidency," remember?

It would be interesting to look at counties that were traditionally red but went blue in 2008 (and then never again) and find out why. Was Obama that strong of a candidate, or was the Palin issue a factor? After 2016, I have to wonder.

Al Franken needs to shut the fuck up and instead guide his anger at Bernie Sanders for splitting the party in half. But of course, he would never do it because Sanders is a man.

R18

I don't want any more of Sanders, he did enough damage. He is the one still blabbering everywhere, milking his dubious publicity it for all it's worth.

I agree R21!

That's 2017 America for you: Bernie Sanders can jabber on constantly about nothing of import, doing little more than slamming the Democrats he's supposed to be representing, but Clinton gives one interview at a tech con about tech and data and people come out of the woodwork to tell her to shut up.

I hope the FBI digs up enough dirt on Sanders and his wife, at least they should do one thing right.

As a woman, I am getting angrier and angrier at people like this. I want to hear from Hillary. She has earned the right to speak. The election was stolen from her. I have started to despise a lot of men. Thankfully, I am a lesbian.

Yes R26. Hillary should speak! And start by saying "I'm a TWO-TIME LOSER. Move on!!" over and over and over and over and over and over and over . . . .

FUCK YOU!

Look, she needs to take a long break from public life. She's just pissed because Perez and Elison don't want the benefit of her wisdom and experience even though they try to be diplomatic when addressing the elephant in the room. They are trying to win back the Democrats who feel abandoned by the party. Blue collar, union, working poor, dwindling middle-class, WOMEN, and Trump voters who voted for him just because he wasn't Clinton. Which was their right. And of course, she continues to blame everyone and his brother because in her own way she's as much of a narcissist as Trump. We all know the deal. The DNC decided to cockblock anyone who even thought about running against her for the nomination including JOE BIDEN. And now she has the audacity to claim that SHE was the victim. Come the fuck on. The truth is neither Clinton can stand to be away from the world stage for very long. To that end they are putting out feelers to gauge public reaction to Chelsea running for a congressional seat in New York. Not going to happen. No one who is paying 3/4 of their take home pay and who has to ride the subway everyday wants to hear what an entitled snob who lives in a 10 million dollar apartment and is neighbors with JLO has to say about making their lives better. And she really is obnoxious. Condescending, aloof, unrelatable. Just go away. The whole fucking lot of you.

Whoops^^paying 3/4 of their take-home pay for rent

R29 is right. Though politicians in general tend to be narcissistic.

I like Al, and I like Hillary. She's an adult and should not be told to shut up by anyone.

Having said that, HRC needs to be careful not to turn into Bernie - the revelation about the DNC was not necessary and makes Democrats look bad. Infighting is not needed at all right now. On the other hand, like it or not, she does have a strong base of supporters, who want to hear from her.

I don't think anyone needs to "shut up" right now, but everybody should consider their statements very carefully before they make any negative statements.

The focus needs to be on removing Trump and making sure that he causes the least amount of damage while he's in office. The bickering is not helping us.

Infighting is all most Dems have been doing, R32. From the first day when Obama went blah-blah-blah she didn't go to VFWs, major Democratic names have been calling Clinton out and blaming her despite the numerous other ENORMOUS issues that lead to a Trump win.

Every single person crabbing about Clinton is a hypocrite.

What people like you really want is for her to disappear so others, mostly Republicans and Bernie supporters, can craft the narrative that suits them. And usually that means they want to throw her under the bus for their own political gain.

If the Democratic Party is going to turn into this big pile of white straight guys not saying a damn thing about Trump not signing a proclamation for Pride Month, spending months not saying anything about Trump at all until they have books to sell, and throwing their own candidate under the bus because they don't want to get associated with a broad who has opinions, then fuck the Democratic Party. That's the Dem Party moving even further right because they're scared and stupid.

And fuck every single voter like you who WANTS them to move further right because YOU'RE scared and stupid.

R32, I apologize. I thought you were also R29 and he's the guy I'm directing most of my FUCK YOU anger to.

I am just so damn frustrated with this constant piling on, and the Democrats that we still have going around like it's business as usual and nothing crazy is happening in DC. We're in the midst of a crisis, but yeah, let's have one of our biggest names in the party bash a major Democrat just so he can sell books. Why not? It's not like anything more important is going on, right?

R34 No worries, I figured you weren't referring to me in parts of your response.

I'm as frustrated as you are, and I'm still shocked that we ended up with this traitorous mass as our elected President.

I really think that Trump and his administration are the main attraction and all focus needs to be on them. Democrats just need to be careful when attacking their own right now.

And remember r35, Bernie isn't one of our own. He couldn't wait to drop the Democratic label as soon as he finally conceded the primary last year and go back to being an independent. Bernie is out for Bernie and most of his followers are too blind or naive to see that.

It's almost like everybody's favorite part time, to tell Clinton what she should do.

What they really should do is pushing for a rigorous uncovering of the events that lead to her loss.

Comey ultimately was responsible for Clinton's loss, she would have won if had kept his trap shut. Nothing came out of the Clinton email investigation, she lost because a hostile rogue country, a sleazy hacker and an internal US institution wanted her to lose.

This is what needs to be investigated, so that future elections can't be tempered with. Hillary Clinton was a part of that event, she needs to speak up and be part of that investigation.

Franken has no right nor any reason to tell her what to do.

[quote] he's also a hypocrite in the largest sense of the word.

Don't forget how he righteously sat there and bitched about people not paying their fair share in taxes... and then wouldn't release his own tax returns (sound familiar?) and then it came out he was paying less than 14% in Income Tax.

Don't forget how he rallied against the elite and then (illegally) used campaign funds to charter a private jet to stalk the Pope.

Don't forget how he talks about Corporate Greed and yet his wife committed Bank Fraud, bankrupted a college, and then took a $200,000 Golden Parachute (and is now subsequently under Federal Investigation).

Don't forget how he preached how he was so involved in the Environment and the poor and yet shipped off toxic waste to Texas for the poor to deal with... all the while making sure his wife got a cushy job on the Board of (to which she STILL earns a salary of over a hundred grand).

I will also never forget how he w went off in an interview about how Trump needed to be responsible and tell his voters to cut it out with the violence and rallies and when pressed by the interviewer who asked him if he then should do the same for his supporters who were also inciting violence he stated, "Well, I can't be held responsible for what my supporters do. I can't tell them what to do, they have to be allowed to express themselves the way they need to.. and I couldn't try to tell them what to do even if I wanted to, there are too many of them!!!!"

And let's not go into what a crook he is.. you know by illegally using and taking campaign money and refusing to file the mandatory reports to the FEC.

I'm not a guy, r34. And who cares if you like what I said. Balling up you tiny fists and stamping your feet because we don't all worship the QUEEN. I believe every word of it. And I mean what I say. I said it all the way up to Election Day and I still voted for her because I'm not stupid. But that never seemsto be enough for her biggest fans. We have to fucking pretend that we actually like her. Well, fuck you right back. Democrats are speaking out about Trump EVERY SINGLE DAY. And working hard to make HIM a one term president. And many of them do not think she is helping the cause by revisiting the campaign almost as much as he does and continuing to deflect blame from herself. Again, narcissistic behavior on a Trumpian level. Her commencement speech might have been a hit with the Wellsley grads but it didn't go over so well with the American public. Take your head out of you ass, son. YOU and people like you are the ones who just don't get it. It's time to MOVE ON.

He's right

Hillary can move on when she wants too. She is the one who ran for president twice, and became the first woman candidate. So it's her right to move on when she wants. I think EVERYONE ELSE needs move on though.

Wow, the Cecil B's are T-R-I-G-G-E-R-E-D ! ! !

Even Al Franken is telling the Pantsuit Jesus to STFU

PS: No one is forcing her to show up at tech conferences or to speak about the election. But she's like a cat with a ball of string-- someone waves a couple hundred grand in front of her for a speaking engagement and she's all over it.

No one is forcing you to listen to her. But you will because well... you know.

It's hilarious R42

I bathe nightly in their angry tears.

Comedian Franken is the next democratic candidate for the White House. Discuss!

God, all those delusional Bernie Sanders fans get all worked up when they don't get the stage for themselves.

Hillary Clinton was the candidate, not Sanders who lost big time in the primaries because eventually most people saw through his phony schtick.

I like watching them stomp their feet. I like making them stomp their feet. It's on par to Trump throwing a tantrum. Interesting that there's not much of a difference.

Thank you R33. I doubt you'll hear that very often but Thank you!

The Media dug itself a deep hole. They were on the Trump bandwagon. They helped romanticize Bernie. And most of all they piled on with negative press against Hillary, and they were relentless with it. They got it wrong on so many levels it belies explanation.

Does anyone in their right mind expect the Media to say they were wrong about Hillary? It's all they can do to cover Comey, whom they have made the Hero of the hour. Comey, admitting he KNEW the Huma Amedin/Weiner e mail debacle was Russian inspired and fake.

Nate Silver saying that the October surprise sent Hillary's numbers plummeting, Harvard studies telling us that she absorbed more negative press than any other candidate, and she absorbed it consistently for 600 fucking days. Which is the number of days her e-mails were discussed in the media. And let's not forget the relentless Benghazi hearings, in between.

When I reflect on the unfolding of the 2016 campaign, I get so damned angry I want to hurt someone. The media and the pundits cherry pick and construct the narrative they feel justifies their perspective. And the sheeple play right along with it. Trump is a disaster and they want to find someone to blame, and God knows they don't want us to look at them.

There will be more books coming out. John Heilmann and Mark Halperin, that piece of shit, will have their book out soon, and will miss the point completely. No one will discuss the role the Media played, or the role of Racism, and Islamophobia, or the 2nd Amendment crackpots. It will all be about Hillary and her "unpleasant personality." Well I said it before. Fuck them.

No other candidate embraced inclusiveness the way Hillary did, in word and deed. She fought the NRA, took a very unpopular stand against them. She spoke out on police violence, she spoke out in favor of illegal immigrants gaining a path towards citizenship, she fought for a realistic increase in the minimum wage. She had a policy booklet that any journalist could have looked at to see where she stood on anything. Instead they completely misrepresented her position,on the West Virginia miners for example. The media never bothered to challenge the constant lies and misrepresentations of Trump. They went for spectacle over substance every time. I found her to be an able, personable candidate who I still admire and respect. She is still the most qualified person to ever run for POTUS. Period. And she is a good person. By July, 2016, the Media knew Russia was involved. They knew. By August it was a certainty. And now we have this terribly shit mess. Less than 30% of the eligible voting population voted for Trump. And here we are.

r45, he's an older baby boomer and therefore too old for 2020 when he'll be nearly 70.

And he's a Jew.

I have no problem with that, but a large part of the voting public will, just like they wouldn't/couldn't vote for a woman in 2016.

Frankenfuck can mind his own business. HILLARY, STICK WITH. YOUR TRUTH. Al would not be quiet if it happened to him. I am glad she is speaking up, she is a proud woman who was cheated.

You might want to take your own advice, r41. And you might want to re-read your post, r46. Yes, Hillary was the candidate. She LOST the election. Because she was a FLAWED candidate. And yet you continue to blame Sanders and his supporters. Sounds like some of you are having as much trouble moving on as she is. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. And tiresome.

Here you go R8

I love when people claim Hillary (and her supporters) are the one's that can't move on... and yet their the ones in every Hillary thread.

*they're

Yeah, Frankenfuck managed to get Sessions on the record LYING about having any contact with the Russians during his confirmation hearing. You can thank him when the little Keebler Weasel goes to prison.

I came into the thread to read what Franken had to say. Glad I did. He's absolutely right.

Did you think Hillary Clinton regrets labeling a block of voters "deplorabkes" as much as Romney regrets his 47% remark?

r57, She shouldn't, because I think she's been proven right in the end. There were and still are deplorables and they prove it each and every day.

I still find it funny that if all things being called a 'deplorable,' was so triggering.

R38, you need to get over Bernie Sanders. Why are we still talking about him or Hillary for that matter?

I voted for Hillary, but she is not accomplishing anything by speaking out like this. She's preaching to the choir of her fans, but she's alienating more and more people. I don't think you realize how polarizing she is. Trump needs to fail. He needs to do it all on his own. It's the only way his supporters will learn a lesson

And she is turning the focus away from trump's fuck ups to her own. That's not a good thing. trump's team probably loves it when she speaks out.

I love Hillary and voted for her, but I think she would be more effective working behind the scenes at this time.

I don't need to get over him, R60. It was brought up in the conversation so I responded to it.

[quote]Why are we still talking about him or Hillary for that matter?

So why are you?

Hillary was most certainly not a flawed candidate. She was a great candidate. She was the very best candidate America had, because she listened and learned...Hillary evolved. Trump is an ignorant piece of trash and ignorant fuckers voted for him.

R63 Obviously, the American voter did not see the candidates as YOU did because Trump won, and Hillary lost (again). Perhaps your perceptions fine tuning?

^^ require fine tuning^^^

1. So everyone else is allowed to continue talking about Hillary's loss, accept for Hillary?

2. Wasn't the Democratic Party's whole continuing shift to the right done for these type of voters. Remember how people were referring to Clinton as a conservative.

3. Other than crafting policy that will uplift the poor and the middle class (which the party should already be doing). The party should be doing what exactly?

The Democratic Party needs to do a better job at communicating (selling the party's message) with voters. However its silly to say that the party needs to start caring about the people who have in the past and continue in the present to chiefly benefit from the party's work. Having said that. The United States has an ignorance problem. The voters that we are talking about are some of the most ignorant people in the country. Which is not the fault of the Democratic Party, but it is a major hurdle that the party must overcome.

I laugh at those who voted for that pos, but cry because they are going to get hurt because of one of his policies. I hope they suffer.

I like Al Franken but he is selling a book at the moment so there's that fact to consider when he states things like this about Hillary.

There is of course, no point in saying this to DL, the biggest collection of closed minds in America, except for maybe some future reader who's interested in counter point of views.

It didn't even seem possible, but Hillary is making herself even more vile, detestable and hated than she was after her horrible failed 2016 run. Al Franken is a tool, and as much in the corporate pocket as any other Dem, but he is right in advising HRC to shut the fuck up already and go away.

Here in DL, when one's sexual preference is the ONLY issue ever at stake, there is no support for Hillary to shut up and go away, because she is seen as a saviour for gay rights. Never mind that she took hundreds of millions from the Saudis, never mind that she speaks to the religious right with a nod and a week on LGBTQ issues, ------ she is the gay goto candidate.

What i look forward to is the day she sells the entire LGBTQ community down the river, so every ZdLer can finally see her for the whoring, money-grubbing bitch she is.

Now the Hillary fanatics can add Al Franken to the long list of people they hate (along with Obama, Comey, Sanders, Biden, the DNC data guy).

R70 - A completely useless and senseless exercise. Everyone has an opinion and they can express them. It's my right not to agree. Hate takes up too much energy. Disappointment would be a better term.

True, R68, that context is important. But it also highlights how ridiculous the Democratic Party can be -- one of the biggest problems we have is loyalty to the party, and here's a famous senator illustrating it perfectly, because he's got a book to sell so out come the knives against his own candidate.

It's like Obama slamming Clinton because he wanted to distance himself from a loser, and Biden slamming her because he was still sore he didn't run, and that former DNC tech guy lying on Twitter that she laundered money just because he got his feelings hurt about her comments on the DNC data, and the media slamming her because they don't like that she doesn't bother to suck up to them, and Robert Reich slamming her because he wants attention for his boring economic theories, and Bernie slamming her because he can't get media attention any other way.

They all have personal or political reasons for doing it, and none of those reasons are about bettering the party or the country.

She needs to focus on helping Democrats and stop focusing on herself. She shouldn't even mention the Russia thing, because others will. She doesn't need to keep making it about her.

She talked at length about doing things for the entire party in that interview, R73.

People are jumping to conclusions and then bashing her for things they made up in their heads. Typical.

Trump only won because Russians interfered with the election and because many American voters are ignorant racist and they recognized the same in Trump. I believe Russians hacked the vote count but American intelligence will never admit that. We did have a lot oif stupid, ignorant fools who voted for a grifter but not enough to give him the election. Nothing can be done but Hillary still won the majority.

She knows what she is doing and at least Hillary knows who our real friends are.

The fact that Al won't stand with Hillary, fuck him.

I'm not bashing her, R74. I just hope all of her energy is put into defeating Republicans. I think one of the first things she needs to do is go to places like WI and OH. Don't keep talking to perceived "elitist" audiences.

R75 - no doubt Russia interfered with the election. Name one credible source that claims they hacked the count.

I believe they hacked the count, why wouldn't they? I am my only source...I have a brain of my own.

He is right and I voted for Hillary, but she has had two chances. Right or wrong people have set opinions of Hillary and those just aren't likely to change. On top of that she will be just too old, as will Biden whom I love. Saunders and probably Warren will also be too old. I would love a strong liberal to be President, but we need to face the fact that a far left liberal just won't win enough votes to get elected. We need a charismatic middle of the road guy to run. I want a woman President, I want a gay President but that just isn't going to happen in the US for a few decades. We can not afford 4 more years of Trump or Pence as President.

[quote]Don't keep talking to perceived "elitist" audiences.

Oh shut up. California has as much right to hear from her than a failed state that couldn't be arsed to fight for Democratic values.

We voted for her in the millions. We have [bold]earned[/bold the right to hear from her. Californians are not elite, they are visionaries that took their destiny into their own hands. It's time we got the respect of the political world.

Our election was stolen. The worst thing the Dems can do at this point is take a "lesson" from this and move to the Right. We are the party of inclusion. We need to be the party of inclusion, not exclusion. The BIG ORWELLIAN LIE that is being promoted is that Hillary is an elitist who didn't talk to the white middle class. But the actually policies she promoted and the programs she embraced give lie to that assertion. Increase the minimum wage? Free college tuition? Job training? And the irony is that Bill did it in the 90's.

The Right painted a picture of Hillary as corrupt, dishonest, opportunistic, hypocritical, and elitist. They have at various times accused her of murder, and criminal negligence, and being "owned by Wall Street." White women voted for her? Yes, there was the October Comey surprise, but it also may surprise many of you to appreciate that women can be misogynists just as we know there are self loathing Gay men.

The GOP and the Media depend on low information voters. Ask yourself why, in this day and age with 24/7 news cycles, so many people lack a basic understanding of issue? Because spectacle is covered horse races are covered. Issues are not covered. Ask yourself what kind of political party depends on trying to stop people from voting, that depends on instilling fear, hatred, and division, and complete lies and fabrications to win an election? The Dems lost because of racism and fear and division, not because they had no message for the white working class.

Last year, I tired of the circus earlier than usual. I decided to watch Hillary's speeches and public appearances on C Span. Then I compared them to the mainstream media coverage. My impressions from watching Hillary speak without filters, vs. watching the MSM "interpret" and the pundits spin, were at odds with one another. I don't think I have ever admired a political candidate more. She is so smart, and such a warm person.

But there's resentment towards smart women. By women as well as certain men. . Insecure people who claim she is elitist and "talks down" to people. Most Gay men have worked through all that. They admire strong women who are smart & compassionate and know how to stand up to the heat of false accusations and sexism. It's an Orwellian Lie that justifies negative coverage and gives the media permission to blame her for their shortcomings.

She's still a political leader and has as much right as any other political leader to discuss and talk about WTF she wants to. If the DNC is pissed off at what she said, I have yet to see anyone say she is wrong or lying. She owes no one anything. She doesn't have to tip toe around the DNC. And honestly? When they need to raise money, who do you think they'll call to speak at their fundraisers?Barack & Hillary.(Michelle is not going to go there.)

If Trump had lost you better believe he'd be making the rounds blaming everyone but himself. I'm comforted by the fact that Hillary won the popular vote. That with all the shit raining down on her she took it, she stood up to it, and she won that vote. Why is no one talking about voting "irregularities?" Why has the Judas Goat, Jill Stein's recount, calmed so many gullible people down? I know Michigan was stolen. I know Wisconsin was stolen. I know Florida and Ohio and PA need to be looked at. But too many of us didn't show up, and we didn't vote in local elections and the Republican governors and Conservative legislatures in Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, and Ohio, have shoved all our suspicions into the dustbin.

I admire her and want very much for her to be able to share her truth and the real truth is, IF THIS HAD HAPPENED TO BITCH FRANKIN, HE WOULD BE HAVING A HISSY FIT AND HE WOULD HAVE THAT RIGHT!

This is about a man disrespecting a woman, nothing more.

What's funny is that Hillary should move on and NOT talk about it or respond to anyone asking her about it.

But Al is allowed to talk about her, whether he's asked about it or not.

[quote]He thinks we need to start caring about people who voted for Trump.

People like Franken and "Uncle" Joe believe that if they go to the Main Street Diner in Stillwater, Oklahoma and give 66-year-old Maynard a long, hot rimjob after he eats two bowls of three bean chili that he will magically start voting for Democratic candidates! "Now let me pull up my britches and go outside and scrape the 'DEFEAT OSAMA, OBAMA AND CHELSEA'S MAMA' off the bumper of my pickup!" Democrats are never going to be able to deliver what Trump voters want, so let's focus our energy on other things (new voters, the 45% eligible voters who didn't vote, voting rights -- the GOP continues to purge voters in Ohio, NC, etc.).

[quote] This is about a man disrespecting a woman, nothing more.

Oh, please. Al Franken heartily endorsed Hillary, even though voters in his state strongly preferred Sanders. He stumped for Hillary in states like Michigan and Ohio on the campaign trail. And you're honestly suggesting that he disrespects Hillary because she's a woman?

The Democrats need to stop being pussies and snatch the government back from the stank assed clutches of the alt right.

[quote] People like Franken and "Uncle" Joe believe that if they go to the Main Street Diner in Stillwater, Oklahoma and give 66-year-old Maynard a long, hot rimjob after he eats two bowls of three bean chili that he will magically start voting for Democratic candidates!

Voters in Stillwater, OK, will never vote for the Democrat, but voters in Stillwater, MN, might. Maybe Al Franken looks at those places in the Midwest in the map at R52 and realizes that we have to try to win back some of those places that voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 but voted for Trump in 2016. And maybe he speaks from experience, as someone who has campaigned in the Midwest and knows a hell of lot more about campaigning in the heartland than most DataLoungers do. No, Oklahoma will never go blue. But voters in states like Wisconsin, Iowa, and Michigan have voted Democratic in past elections. It's ridiculous to suggest that we should just write them off and assume they'll never vote Democratic again.

How exactly do you battle an opponent who cheats? Is it by being nicer, more compassionate, more humble, more whatever else the Democrats have been told that they need to be.

[quote]Democrats are never going to be able to deliver what Trump voters want

They seem to really enjoy hate.

Considering Biden was out there trying to say the loss was completely on her and had nothing to do with Obama/Biden I'd say she has a right to fight back.

Exactly, R92.

Look at me, I'm going to be an Obama-Trump-Kamala Harris voter!

I just skimmed through all these posts and did no one point out Al Franken never said that?

[quote]“I love Hillary. I think she is very prepared to be president of the United States … and I think she has a right to analyze what happened, but we do have to move on,” Franken said. “We have to move on by proving we are the party that cares about a lot of the people who voted for Donald Trump.”

I think “We have to move on by proving we are the party that cares about a lot of the people who voted for Donald Trump" was pretty accurately described in the OP, R95.

Tempering it with "I love her but..." doesn't really change what he's saying: the entire Democratic Party has to move on and care about Trump's fans, and Clinton not moving on like she "should" is hurting the party. Just because he's trying to be polite about it doesn't mean that's not what he's saying.

He doesn't say "Hillary should move on", he says "we should move on", yet everyone is quoting him as if he said the former. Accuracy matters to me at least.

OK what franken actually said makes more sense than the shit kicking deplorable ops headline. Fuck you op

I find it very disappointing that it took 95 posts before someone pointed out his actual quote, is this what has become of this board?

[quote] Accuracy matters to me at least.

Jesus, I can hear you sniffing in faux indignation through the screen.

If you didn't know what was in the article, r100, that's you're fault. We're all adults here who know how to click and to read. We're not responsible for holding your hand and spoonfeeding you nuggets of information.

*your fault

Move on? To me it's fairly clear she's entertaining fantasies of a 2020 do-over. (Denial stage of grief)

Hillary has a huge followers base. Dems know that. If they want her supporters, they should be careful what they say (as most are).

Next to worrying about Trump and the republicans, I am truly frightened by what I see in the liberal/progressive community. Unlike the republicans, who disagree on many issues but who know enough to work together as a team when up against their opponents, the democrats won't stop bickering among themselves. Why is it that liberals will only support candidates who match up to their views, point by point? Why is it that conservatives know how to get along with each other, but liberals refuse to?

At this rate, we'll never have a democratic congress or president again.

democrats do "care" about the deplorabables, things like health care, safety net, good PUBLIC schools, safe water, sustainable jobs, addiction, retraining, all benefit the working and lower middle class. it's not the dems fault that these assholes are too fucking stupid and filled with bile that they can't see beyond their hate and bigotry. sure the working class is hurting, but whites are too filled with racism to actually vote to help themselves.

fuck 'em ...let them rot and improve the gene pool.

Careful, r104. Someone might mistake you for a deplorable. No, wait, a Bernie Bro. No wait, a Jill Stein supporter. No, wait, a member of the forgotten base of the Democratic Party. The people they USED to care about. And thankfully a handful of them still do. But most of them, like their Republican counterparts, only care about power and money, money, money, money. Trump is a pathological liar but he was right about that.

R195, everything you say about Dems one could just as easily accuse the Republicans of doing the same thing!!

R105, not 195, damned iPhone.

Are you from the future, r108? Tell us how it all pans out. We're dying of suspense. Also, from polluted air, water, radioactivity, famine, dying oceans, civil war, The Great Flood......

There's two problems with Hillary running for office again. One is her age. Personally I think anyone the age of Hillary, Bernie or Trump should retire from political high office. Maybe you can get away with it if you're on the city council or something, but President or governor are very exhausting and demanding roles, and people that age are often out of touch with what young people want or need. There's too big an age gap.

Secondly, Hillary left the campaign with some pretty heavy baggage. Comey, Russian trolls etc. It's not like Obama leaving the world stage and people still like him. His credibility is still intact. If he ran for governor or something, Republicans wouldn't be able to say, there's that guy with all the scandals, whose wife has even more scandals than he does. People are sick of that and it doesn't motivate them to get out and vote. People still want to have a beer with the President, stupid as it might be.

Hillary's reputation was destroyed in every way, her husband was made out to be a serial rapist, she was made out to be the enabler of a rapist. You can't run somebody like that against a sanctimonious right wing religious nut and think they're going to win. Obama is personally squeaky clean and I think that's the main reason he got re-elected after years of Republicans tearing him down. He and his family are personally likable. A lot of people don't like Bill or Chelsea. They think Bill is an out of control degenerate and Chelsea is a spoiled, entitled, unmotivated rich kid that never earned anything. Deplorables admired Ivanka for her good looks and big rack and her "business acumen." For deplorables, if you're good looking you're good, if you're bad looking you're bad. Two words: Sarah Palin. She was a milf, so that meant she was also a genius.

Why is it that conservatives know how to get along with each other?

because they have racism and bigotry as a common cause that "trumps" all other issues. dems have nothing similar to unite them

another 20 years of opioids and meth might do darwin's handiwork

And there it is. In one short post r72 has managed to blame everyone but Osama's Mama for her loss.

Hillary should speak out loud and long against Trump the treasinist asshole, against Russia and against Comey.

Liberals each have their own mind, racist right wingers are all in goose step together.

I was never a major Hillary fan - I liked her but I was not obsessed. But the last couple years have put me firmly in her corner. It's really incredible how she's kept going, despite the obvious, sexist double standards applied against her for so long. I don't want her to shut up now.

Critics say she couldn't give a compelling reason for her candidacy in 2016. Why her and why now? She came up short of any good answer, according to these critics, but if these same critics don't think the Trump shit show hasn't provided AMPLE reason for a 2020 Hillary run, I don't know what will ever convince them! A third try would be the final chance to get it right for America.

Christ, stop saying Hillary should run. I like her too but you are embarrassing yourself.

[quote] But then so should Biden, Sanders, Stein, the entire Kennedy dynasty and of course Franken.

Why should Franken? He's still in the Senate. The others are out of power but he is still a major Washington player.

R119 - Only because he conveniently found a box of votes for himself in the trunk of someone's car when he needed them. Let's not delude ourselves into thinking he actually vote the votes to be in the senate.

Yes six feet under R4 because deep down they are good people.

Oy. We are so divided. Perez and Elison have their work cut out for them trying to corrall this herd of scratching, hissing, mewling cats. Myself included. We have to find common ground. This is the way THEY won. And they will keep on winning! unless we stop fighting each other and take the fight to them. Even if Trump resigns or is removed from office we will still have In-Christ's-Name-President Pence to contend with. Believe me;) we are ALL on his shit list. And his hit list. We are smarter than this.

Now he's turned on Kathy Griffen.

She's past her shelf life

One thing I noticed is that the deplorables are the first ones to respond to any thread that has Clinton name in it (to add, a lot of these threads are started by buthurt Sanders supporters who, sadly, have not moved on from the primaries - grow up, boys)

Honey, if you patrol DL for any mention of Hillary Clinton so you could post your immediate response YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS PERPETUALLY TRIGGERED.

No, he's listening to his constituents, r123. She's hired a celebrity lawyer and plans to hold a press conference to complain that the Trump clan is bullying her. If she does go ahead with that bone-headed move then what little support she has now will dwindle to a not so precious few. She's as ridiculous as Trump. They both like to dish it out but can't take it. Honestly, I thought SHE was smarter than that.

[quote]Careful, [R104]. Someone might mistake you for a deplorable. No, wait, a Bernie Bro. No wait, a Jill Stein supporter.

It's pretty clear that there are some deplorables posting here, and that there are some hard core Sanders supporters as well, who routinely vomit over Clinton. It's pretty common for these people to call her awful names, degrading her gender. There is a certain viciousness about their attacks that goes beyond politics. You know what I'm talking about. These are hate filled individuals who don't even contribute to the political dialogue. It's mostly - that fucking two time loser cunt should die and I will spit on her grave - thing. What we call them is irrelevant.

I like Franken, but if he were principled, he would tell Biden and Sanders to stop whining how they would have won against Trump... if only.

He'll never do that, though, will he.

I like Al Franken, and in my mind I know he means well. But I can't help it, I hear comments like the one he's made here about HRC and I see red. It feels like... watching some nice old lady go to the corner store, she gets kicked again and again by a gang of thugs, and then her family instead of supporting her goes "oh well, you should probably move on, granny. don't go to the store anymore, stupid!"

R122, what makes you think the fighting is among Democrats only?

I honestly believe the fighting is Dems vs Sanders supporters vs trolls who claim to be Dems. I don't think real Dems are fighting, I think we mostly agree with each other.

Because a lot of Democrats WERE Bernie supporters. They didn't stop being Democrats just because they wanted a candidate who spoke to their values. Which were and are Democratic values. It's a mistake to think that people who are critical of her are just trolls. This is why we have to stop baiting and hating each other and think of the bigger picture. Can't we all agree that Trump, his family, his toxic cabinet, his advisors, his Supreme Court pick, and all the enablers, shills, and traitors in the Republican Party are the real and immediate problem and we need to deal with THEM. Not each other. I honestly can't find another way to say it.

[quote] Because a lot of Democrats WERE Bernie supporters. They didn't stop being Democrats just because they wanted a candidate who spoke to their values.

Exactly. A lot of Bernie's plans were too idealistic with little chance of being implemented. But they were true to Democratic values and ideals -- in many ways, truer to Democratic values and ideals than the plans of the party itself. Yet, in the minds of many DataLoungers, anyone who says anything positive about Bernie must hate the Democratic Party and must be a secret Trump troll. Since when did wishing for things like single-payer health care, free tuition and income equality make someone a freeper?

[quote]She LOST the election. Because she was a FLAWED candidate.

It's amazing to me that even now, after an investigation about Russia's meddling in the election and Trump's involvement in it has been launched, the FBI clearly stepped over the line, Comey possible being investigated for Hatch Act violations - some people still think Hillary Clinton, who got nearly 3 million more votes, is at fault here.

I remembered all the "bitch is hiding and if she cared about the Democratic party and her voters she'd be out there speaking" in the three of four months after the election when Clinton took time off from the public life.

Some of you are nothing more but hypocrites.

[quote] She LOST the election. Because she was a FLAWED candidate.

[quote]It's amazing to me that even now, after an investigation about Russia's meddling in the election and Trump's involvement in it has been launched, the FBI clearly stepped over the line, Comey possible being investigated for Hatch Act violations - some people still think Hillary Clinton, who got nearly 3 million more votes, is at fault here.

That line means one thing:

Sanders lost and I will never get over it or stop blaming Clinton fore beating him in the primaries.

But since these posters cannot admit their true motives, they are hiding behind the flawed candidate line (if you challenge them on it they NEVER respond).

Bernie attracted Independents and "Liberal" Dems who wanted permission not to vote for a woman.

Thanks for the insightful comment, r132. For the first time in all my years here I am going to mosey over to the appreciating men with big, fat dicks thread. Care to join me?

being for bernie was fine...not many had a problem with that, but after he lost, if they sat it out, voted 3rd party or for the monster..then fuck 'em

[quote] Yet, in the minds of many DataLoungers, anyone who says anything positive about Bernie must hate the Democratic Party

I hardly ever see posts informative about Sanders's politics. And I doubt anyone would be dismissive of those.

Most posts coming from Sanders supporters are about extreme negativity towards Clinton.

Never knew Al was such a sexist, I would not vote for him but I might vote for Ted Lieu, if he ran for president.

"I would not vote for him but I might vote for Ted Lieu, if he ran for president

but if he doesn't i'll sit this one out and let trump get re-elected

this is the idiocy that causes us to lose and we call the deplorables stupid

The sad thing is, Franken doesn't encourage people to find out what really happened last year. He says Clinton should just shut up and put up with the biggest scandal and the biggest injustice in modern US election history.

It's almost like he says we shouldn't investigate.

Clinton aside, it's the election process, the media, the Obama administration, everybody failed to do their job properly and Franken says we should move on?

Fuck this!

[quote]The United States has an ignorance problem. The voters that we are talking about are some of the most ignorant people in the country. Which is not the fault of the Democratic Party, but it is a major hurdle that the party must overcome

We definitely have an ignorance problem. Twenty years ago we didn't have social media. Many of the ignorant low IQ voters were afraid to speak out. Now they have the internet and social media. They can speak out all they want and they find millions of other low IQ people who share their flawed thinking. They also have thousand of fake news webpages that (wrongly) support their flawed thinking, back up and reinforce their lunacy. They all think they are geniuses now. The refuse to believe facts or common sense. No amount of facts or common sense will solve their ignorance. They will have to learn the hard way. Unfortunately the rest of us will have to go along for the ride

[quote]The voters that we are talking about are some of the most ignorant people in the country.

The electoral college is also on their side

I didn't expect his plans to be implemented, but that he believes that's how he feels things SHOULD be.

I'm posting this on every thread I think appropriate. It bears repeating:

Dems need to be running ads RIGHT NOW to weaken their shit. RIGHT NOW> Those fuckers had the most dishonest, factually incorrect filth on the air in local markets scaring people and making people feel insecure about their healthcare and urging them to support the Trumpcare "plan." And there was nothing to counter it. Where the fuck is an overall strategy. When will Dems stop gazing at their navels and just get moving? All this nitpicking is tearing us apart. Stop it. We know what we stand for. We may disagree on some details but basically we know who we are. So stop fucking around and get on the damned bus!

I say this because the legal process will take as long as it take. The GOP has no respect for the law. They are lawless. They are venal corrupt pieces of shit. They do great harm to tens of millions of people with their ragged assed policies. So while we are waiting for the Trump disaster to play out, we can protest harass and pressure members of Congress in a million ways. Right now a lot of the resistance is happening without the Democratic party. But to STOP TRUMP we have to stop Congress. And the DNC is real real late to the fucking party.

All the rambling on this page is annoying.

Three things boil down from this:

A. She's throwing people to the wolves who basically supported her and wanted her to win - even the point of telling her she should campaign in the states she didn't carry....the twitter feed of the DNC Data analyst only makes it clear they TOLD the Campagn her flawed strategy wasn't enough.

B. This only demonstrates she thought she knew better, which only hurts Hillary's brand and gives amo to the critics of the Clintons, which basically characterizes her agenda as pure ambition and nothing else. What where you running for, Mrs Clinton? Remember Iowa in 08?

C. Her camp EXPECTED blacks and minorities who voted for Obama to turn out for her campaign....WHAT MINORITY THINKS A WHITE WOMEN REPRESENTS THEIR INTERESTS? None. See the SNL skit with Chris Rock and Dave Chapelle...the were pretty astute in their assessment.

D. Remember that time in the 08 campaign that Obama's camp sent flyers out about the Clinton's ties to NAFTA to states in the rust belt.? And Clinton had that press conference where she was furious and blasted the Obama camp? SHE FUCKING KNEW THIS WAS A WEAK POINT.

BASICALLY, EVERYTHING BOILS DOWN TO THAT THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN DID NOT LEARN ANYTHING FROM 2008 and REPEATED MISTAKES.

K?

[quote]All the rambling on this page is annoying. Three things boil down from this:

[quote]A. She's throwing people to the wolves who basically supported her and wanted her to win - even the point of telling her she should campaign in the states she didn't carry....the twitter feed of the DNC Data analyst only makes it clear they TOLD the Campagn her flawed strategy wasn't enough.

[quote]B. This only demonstrates she thought she knew better, which only hurts Hillary's brand and gives amo to the critics of the Clintons, which basically characterizes her agenda as pure ambition and nothing else. What where you running for, Mrs Clinton? Remember Iowa in 08?

[quote]C. Her camp EXPECTED blacks and minorities who voted for Obama to turn out for her campaign....WHAT MINORITY THINKS A WHITE WOMEN REPRESENTS THEIR INTERESTS? None. See the SNL skit with Chris Rock and Dave Chapelle...the were pretty astute in their assessment.

[quote]D. Remember that time in the 08 campaign that Obama's camp sent flyers out about the Clinton's ties to NAFTA to states in the rust belt.? And Clinton had that press conference where she was furious and blasted the Obama camp? SHE FUCKING KNEW THIS WAS A WEAK POINT.

[quote]BASICALLY, EVERYTHING BOILS DOWN TO THAT THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN DID NOT LEARN ANYTHING FROM 2008 and REPEATED MISTAKES.

[quote]K?

VS

Sanders: I was robed of my Presidency by the evil doers at the DNC. That's why I am touring around the country on the DNC dime.

VS

Biden: I could have won easily if only I had run. Why didn't I? It doesn't matter why, I could have woooon...

K?

SORE losers. Too bad your pantsuit jesus lost to my minion. Keep fighting, I LOVE IT.

Because of the Clintons "special" relationship with them. First black president and all, along with the fact that black voters turned out almost monolithically for her in the primaries.

She needs to get put out to pasture with the rest of the old cows who have no milk to give. Live out her life and get a nice grave in the shade when it's over. This is all she deserves, now. We'll clean up the mess from here.

We could all chip in and buy her a lifetime supply of wine spritzers or a little cottage on Martha's Vineyard. Isn't that where they send old and used politicians to die?

I think a rocking chair, with a tasteful Amish-style quilt in jewel tones, would be an appropriate retirement gift, don't you?

Does the DNC give out a lifetime achievement award? I think that would be wonderful!

The very LEAST we could do is pay for the canckle replacement surgery. All those miles she's logged in that last campaign have taken their toll.

I think a gold watch, from Tiffany's, would be super. Engraved, of course, with her initials and our condolences: Sorry, not sorry.

It could be a pocket watch, for the pantsuits.

With a long chain and a tag that reads: NEVER AGAIN.

Franken is right; OP is wrong.

Part of what worked against Hillary Clinton was NOT HAVING MUCH OF AN AGENDA, especially one that benefits the majority of Americans with real bread and butter.

Bill Clinton was personally responsible for allowing the political class and government to abandon unions and allow Free Trade. The Democratic Party did NOT pass laws to STOP the Mitt Romneys from outsourcing American jobs — it compromised and embraced a global economy in the Republican fashion.

That would have been okay if America's uneducated, poor and working-class people had changed careers, educated themselves and voluntarily evolved. But they didn't. And these ignorant people will vote for ANYONE who just pays the slightest lip service to their issues and talks to them, including the incoherent phony Donald Trump.

Hillary Clinton took her political base for granted — she DID NOT campaign in her base past the primary season, which included working-class states that she lost: Michigan, Wisconsin; Pennsylvania.

The Clintons have always been social climbers sucking up to Wall Street, corporate powers that be and Tech liberal billionaires leading the New Economy.

But she's completely oblivious to the people left behind. That's why Bill Clinton brought it up in campaign meetings and urged her to do something for the Bubba vote.

Hillary ignored the #1 rule in politics that her husband succeeded on: It's the Economy, Stupid!

[quote] Part of what worked against Hillary Clinton was NOT HAVING MUCH OF AN AGENDA, especially one that benefits the majority of Americans with real bread and butter.

Oh, no. Soon, the Hillary fanatics will pounce on you, screaming: "She DID have an agenda! Didn't you read the highly detailed policy proposals on her website?"

And which fanatic are you R160?

Whatever opinion you have is cancelled by your need to degrade millions of Clinton voters by calling them fanatics. Just because you didn't vote for her, in the primaries or in the general.

Nice.

The US is going to turn out like the UK right now, full of idiots on the left and on the right, and no reasonable person to steer the country on the right path.

There's no hope for deplorables. They are 1) uneducated 2) stupid 3) unemployed and unemployable blue collar workers 4) old, grumpy white men who can't get over the fact they got old, have no money and get no respect.

the respect they get is from their racism and bigotry.....feeling superior to blacks and browns.....without it they're losers in their own minds,....why they have to hold on to it

LBJ: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

I just got Franken's book and about 1/3 of it is bound upside down. Is that a joke or GOP treachery?

Franken does say the funniest Senator is Miss Lindsey.

He is spot on on this point.

I've no love for Trumpism, but I don't stand with those that hate his supporters either. We may disagree but they are my fellow Americans. I truly do pity those of you who have lost this basic truth of our democracy - you have a long way to come back to sanity.

Well said, R168.

He's not wrong.

💂 - we speak the truth

She will surprise a lot of people when she runs again.

The deplorables WERE the ones that voted for Hillary. Those with tiny salaries under 50K, with their hand out for government cheese.

R172 And she will loose again.

She'd probably do OK, buthe American public does not want Hillary Clinton for president. Period.

I did not vote FOR Hillary Clinton. I voted AGAINST Trump.