BREAKING - It's Official! Trump to RIP-UP NAFTA!

Prepare yourselves for $20.00 avacados

Prepare yourself for Mexico aligning closely with China.

That'll be great for us. Just great.

R3 what do you mean?

The US is Mexico's largest trading partner. A huge amount of its exporting goes to the US. Something like 80% of its exports go the U.S.

If the US withdraws from NAFTA, that trading is over. And trading with Canada will become much more expensive and difficult to accomplish.

There aren't that many customers large enough to take the place of the U.S. China would love to establish a beach head on our southern border. And Mexico will have no reason to care what we think of it.

Well the upside will be more Iowa farmers will go bankrupt since there'll be no more market for their products. So hopefully lots of people in the Midwest will lose all their money and die. That makes me happy.

[quote] lots of people in the Midwest will lose all their money and die. That makes me happy.

You're happy people are going to be thrown out onto the street?

[quote]Well the upside will be more Iowa farmers will go bankrupt since there'll be no more market for their products. So hopefully lots of people in the Midwest will lose all their money and die. That makes me happy.

That won't happen One of the foibles of trade is that we export farm goods and then import the exact same farm goods from other countries. Go figure.

[quote] One of the foibles of trade is that we export farm goods and then import the exact same farm goods from other countries.

What of "Trump to RIP-UP NAFTA" do you not understand?

So Trump is cutting ties with two of our biggest trade partners? That's our recession right there. Most of our oil comes from Canada (especially Canada) and Mexico. Hello gas @ $7 a gallon.

He's pretty much throwing Mexico to China and Canada as well. Now Canada can become a power player in the continental Americas because now it has an open market with South America.

The biggest danger here is that the US will likely lose its influence in the Americas to China. Expect other foreign powers to come too. Hello Europe! If the US loses it's place as top dog in the Americas, our influence and place in the world will tumbled.

The world is salivating at mouth.

R9, my point was that the farm goods would just stay in the USA and the farmers would do just fine.

R11 and the consumers will be paying HIGHER prices, some may decide not purchase veggies & fruits cause the price is too high, so where does all that food go if we can't trade?

what's a nafta?

When people hear he is ripping of NAFTA, they think it is good because what happened with NAFTA was jobs were sent to other countries which destroyed local economies and the industrial base. If it was something that truly supported the country that would be great.

But their plan might be to turn the US into China. There will be jobs, but they pay twenty cents a day.

Trumpkins are the stupidest motherfuckers on earth.

They think a man born wealthy, who cuts corners at every turn, employs cheap, foreign labor, goes through bankruptcies and sticks Americans with his bills...knows what he's doing and that it's good. Too stupid to know that many parts of the world have caught up and will soon surpass us. And they stupidly think American corporations look out for our best interest.

Where's the link, dumbfuck, OP???

[quote]My point was that the farm goods would just stay in the USA and the farmers would do just fine.

Except that our agriculture is modeled for an international market. Only Californian agriculture which exports to the rest of the nation could survive without shrinking. The Corn and alfalfa industries are going to suffer the most because their biggest market is Mexico and Canada, not the United states. The irony here is that Corn and Alfalfa are the heart of the agriculture of deplorable country. Ohio, Indiana, Tennessee, Kentucky and Kansas.

The irony here is that it will only make California and Florida agriculture all the more important while it will decimate the agriculture in red states.

It's like Trumpenstein wants a depression. Let's see how much he loves Janet Yellen after he rips up NAFTA and she raises interest rates through the roof causing massive inflation. $20 avocados are ONLY the beginning. Try $20 milk or juice. A tomato for $10.

Schadenfreude anyone?

Also, Hawaii is going to make bank with its pineapples because no matter happens with Trump Latin America can't survive without them.

I guess Argentina and Chile's Alfalfa industries feeling pretty awesome right now. Mexico and Canada will become close partners out of necessity.

Blue states need to form a country and join Mexico and Canada. I don't fucking need the garbage produced in the Midwest. The shitty beef, corn and potatoes are all unhealthy garbage.

Most of my produce is grown in foreign countries.

I'm guessing the big winner out of this will be China.

"Under Article 2205 of NAFTA, any country can withdraw after providing six months’ notice to the other two countries. If the U.S. pulled out, NAFTA would remain in force between Canada and Mexico.

Such a unilateral withdrawal would be difficult for the U.S., which depends on numerous integrated supply chains across its borders.

It would also be procedurally difficult. Although Mr. Trump likely could pull the U.S. out of the deal, he would need Congress to approve rolling back its provisions, such as by putting tariffs on Canadian and Mexican goods that are currently exempted."

Where will the deplorables channel their anger when the jobs still don't come back?

Why does everyone in his administration use words like huge and biggest and largest to describe everything they propose? It's ridiculous. And always turns out to be a falsehood.

I'm sure they will blame Obama for that too, R24.

He is destroying our country as fast as he can. We will be as dead as if North Korea hit us with a bomb. Our economy is over and the stock market keeps climbing with the hope of tax breaks for the rich. I hoped I would die before I could see the coming misery.

Who is going to pick the fields? You stupid nuts...nothing beats Mexican field hands.

I guess I have my diet plan in place.

[quote] Who is going to pick the fields?

He is putting a HALT to temporary foreign workers as well.

Looks like President Bannon got his wish, a destroyed America.

A fourth grader has a better vocabulary than Donald Trump. That speech he gave in Wisconsin, is just very, very very bad.

Also, more on trade, and softwood lumber at link -

I thought many Democrats hate NAFTA as anti-union or some such?

R20, Hawaii doesn't grow pineapples anymore - they all come from the Philippines now.

Oh yeah! The US Beef industry will collapse because we produce so much more than we consume. And once access to the Mexican and Canadian markets is gone, They'll have to cut back production in a savage way in order to see profits. Hello bankrupt ranchers and hamburger at $25 a pound! I can smell the winning and the second term from here!

Trump is a blowhard. Does anyone really think any of this will come to pass? It's like the Muslim ban , health care, the Iran agreement, China and N Korea-- who knew it was so complicated.

I really don't know why everyone goes into a panic when he says the latest stupid thing. It's all for show.

R36 you know what Executive Order means right? He just slapped a 25% tariff on softwood lumber through Executive Order. Now he is doing the same with NAFTA.

The big one is the medical industry, a lot of our medical equipment is supplied by Mexico. This could trigger a health crisis because going to the doctor will be super expensive. Red states are the biggest abusers of medicaid.

Blue States better better cut what they give back to the government so that they can take care of its own people. My hard earned dollars should go to aid the people of my state and not red country.

People forget just a few days ago Trump realized NATO wasn't obsolete after all. Hey dolt at R37 that tariff was a long standing dispute between the US and Canada. NAFTA is an agreement that he just cannot walk away from. Not without Congresses help which he's not going to get as they want a job to return to.

[quote]Blue States better better cut what they give back to the government so that they can take care of its own people. My hard earned dollars should go to aid the people of my state and not red country.

Fucking Preach!

[quote] NAFTA is an agreement that he just cannot walk away from.

As Trudeau Sr. Once said

"Just watch me"

Yes, DJ, and you have been "very, very, very" bad for the United States. His verbal diarrhea is so predictable. Use the word "very" repeatedly and everyone will know that he speaketh the truth.

I thought my hate would abate some as time went by because always reacting on a visceral level to the damage Dumpkopf has attempted thus far, and will attempt to do in the future, is unhealthy for body and soul. But my god, I found myself yelling at the t.v several times today like some old coot in the throes of dementia and I am just going to zone out for a while with HBO on Demand and tubs of premium ice cream. I'm not much of a drinker so I will add a tad of Kaluha to my big bowl of Banana Foster ice cream. Between the Ice Princess telling us how wonderful her fadder is on woman's issues and his 'review' of public lands that might be ripe with fossil fuel and the revival of Ryan's Health? More Like Death Plan I'm at my tipping point. Gotta move to Mass or Maine and soon. Can't spend the next four years in Nanny Cuomo's New Yawk without any herb to deaden the pain. Just can't. Thanks for listening.

R43, no one was listening.

[quote] NAFTA is an agreement that he just cannot walk away from. Not without Congresses help which he's not going to get as they want a job to return to.

I don't think you understand the ramifications of his words. What he just did will have an impact in our nation going forward. We have shown our other trading partners around the world that we are not a reliable partner, in fact this will most likely lose us trading deals to China.

The USA and China are the two biggest trade powerhouses in the world. You show to the rest of the world that you're an unreliable partner, they will dump you for a better one. Who's going to want to make deal with our businesses?

(r43), I assume that you realize that the insta-respsonse you got was either a Trump troll or one of the dyed in the wool believers of "pointless bitchery". I listened and commiserated along with probably quite a few others.

I hear you, R43. This shit is the worst circus these fools have EVER put on. Low budget, low brow shit that doesn't even cover the lettuce. At least we got to laugh at My Pet Goat before the towers fell.

Well, EVERYTHING Ross Perot said about NAFTA in 1992 came true. "That great sucking sound you hear will be jobs going to Mexico" was 100% accurate. Who knows what this will bring?

I'm sure the immediate effect will be market disruption, but maybe there's a bigger upside?

R48, There could be a bigger upside if there was organization for ordinary people, workers, people who genuinely would like a strong functioning US.

But the only ones who are organized are crooks.

Economists agree that NAFTA has been GREAT for our country's overall economy.

There goes that

Why the fuck are jobs with Comcast or Verizon in the Philippines? I know NAFTA was only about NA, but what damn trade agreement allowed that shit?

[quote]but maybe there's a bigger upside?

Oh there will be an upside to this. Thanks deplorables!

Much cheaper labor costs, R51.

And I assume the fact that the U.S. is part of the WTO.

Republicans truly are the dumbest people for thinking any corporation looks to pay a living wage to their dumb asses based on being Americans. There is no incentive for any American corporation to bring back jobs if they have to pay more to workers. There is no love of country just because these companies are American-based.

Let him do it.

I mean it. Let him fuck dat whole thing Uganda let the US consumer deal with the aftermath of his brilliant dealings.

The issue is that Trump has NO PLAN to revitalize the nation's industry infrastructure to a) provide the citizens with the same price and quality of consumer goods and b) produce and distribute these consumer goods within the US.

So the general population can expect to walk into supermarkets looking at mostly empty shelves or at price tags where items cost triple (if not more) than before Trump took a dump on the trading economy.

I predict it would take at least a decade to actually come up with a way of the US to become a self sustainable economy on its own to quasi satisfy its citizens with decently priced consumer goods they can afford on adjusted salaries.

WHERE'S THE LINK, OP?

OP IS FAKE NEWS!!!!

TRUMP IS ***CONSIDERING*** IT

Thread Closed

Blue states need to look after each other and start acting more independently from government policy. That's right, you heard right. The West Coast and the Northeast need to star (independently) trading internationally to avoid a recession in the whole United States. While it's not ideal, the United states can recover if only the Red states dip into recession, but not if our larger economies go down as well.

The Western Sunbelt (Texas/Arizona/New Mexico) and Colorado need to align with the West Coast in order to ride out what appears to be a looming recession. Minnesota and Illinois need to align with the Northeast and take Pennsylvania with them.

Progressive Democrats have been asking for this for years. It was one of Bernie's biggest talking points, and Obama ran against it on 2008( changing his mind once he got into office, of course).

R60, if progressive Democrats were in charge, we might get a good deal out of this. With the GOP in charge led by a grifter, it's pretty much guaranteed we're fucked.

That is why they have to organize to turn this into something better. Instead they are wasting their time following the Wall Street social regression Party. Or just apathetic with videogames and drugs.

Trump is a cheap thug who thinks he can strongarm and threaten everyone in order to get his way.

Please do not tell me that he loves this country. He loves himself, and does whatever will financially benefit himself and his three oldest children.

[quote] Well, EVERYTHING Ross Perot said about NAFTA in 1992 came true. "That great sucking sound you hear will be jobs going to Mexico" was 100% accurate.

"When I heard Ross say this, that was the moment I went all-in for NAFTA. Giant sucking sounds were always my administrations top priority."

[quote] R2: Prepare yourselves for $20.00 avocados

Don't forget the $50 tomato 🍅!

My thinking is that it's a global world now. We can lead in front, or follow behind and get the crumbs. Whether or not that's the way it is.

Also, I don't think anybody on DL, or the populous in general, really understands the details of NAFTA, and all the side effects and secondary effects. I figure, it comes down to who do you trust to understand the issues (Trump already fails at this); and who do you trust to have the best interests of the population in mind. (Also not Trump.)

So, knowing that Trump doesn't know what he's doing or care about anybody but himself, it is clear to me that I want to oppose whatever he's doing,

The rich steal from the poor and blame NAFTA. And the deplorables believe them.

And so we are doomed.

Why is tRump still here?

R67, please, Turnip doesn't think everything through. Or even anything. Next week, he'll tell us "I was surprised. NAFTA is very complicated.", as if that excuses his screw ups. He knows it's bad, but knows nothing about it.

He likes to say "I was surprised.", I noticed. As if that makes his bungling perfectly excusable. Well, it doesn't. I don't know much about NATO, Obamacare, or NAFTA, but I know that they are complicated. I also know not to criticize something and pledge to scrap it, without knowing anything about it. But then, I'm not a liar like Trump.

Nobody knew that Datalounge could be so complicated

You forgot...for tanking the economy R72

He is gonna RIP UP NAFTA!

Huh, looks like he just got everyone to renegotiate the agreement.

Oh look. Trump changed his mind again.

Trudeau must have anticipated that: "We know that trade, Nafta, the free and open trade between Canada and the U.S. creates millions of good jobs on both sides of the border. So we’re not going to overreact."

"...whereas he has shown that if he says one thing and then actually hears good counterarguments or good reasons why he should shift his position, he will take a different position, if it’s a better one, if the arguments win him over."

Looks like Trudeau knows how to read Trump better than his own daughter does.

R65 Will it still come with the free surprise "bonus" of e-coli?

This is several years old but it discusses some of the ways that NAFTA has hurt us. "Despite the rhetoric, the central goal of NAFTA was not “expanding trade.” After all, the U.S., Mexico, and Canada had been trading goods and services with each other for three centuries. NAFTA’s central purpose was to free American corporations from U.S. laws protecting workers and the environment."

Exactly what I said at R36. Who knew it was so complicated is Trump's mantra. No need to overreact to every little bomb he throws on twitter. He was not going to rip up NAFTA the same way he was not going to walk away from NATO, the same way he wasn't going to tear up the Iran agreement and the same way he wasn't going to turn away the Australian refugees. Trump is a blowhard. He talks a lot and brags a lot but talk to him for 10 minutes like the Chinese President and he figures out things aren't that easy. In that way Trump is like your teenager who refuses to listen to any of your wisdom and good advice but when Joe Blow down the street says the same thing you've been saying all along, all of a sudden he hears that.

The forecasts of ruin in midwestern farms is accurate. Yes, we buy fruits and vegetables from Mexico; they buy corn and wheat. We can and do grow fruits and vegetables in the West; as a result, they are relatively cheap. I bought five tomatoes for $1 today. Even though transportation has gotten cheap(er), the market for fresh produce faces more issues than shipping. However, you can dry and ship the grains produced anywhere into Mexico. They don't need us nearly as much as we need them. It's that simple.

Nevertheless, this is Shitler stock-in-trade: throw a verbal bomb and distract, obfuscate and deploy essentially magic tricks to keep the people from looking at the real issues. The government is about to shut down, and they're fiddling with healthcare again, about to lose again. The stock market is zooming, but we all know what happens when the market gets overheated. And his tax plan will blow a hole in the deficit unlike anything we've seen. Meanwhile, he's been in office for 100 days, and aside from breaking Senate traditions to ram through a SCOTUS nominee, he's accomplished zero. And, he's signalling that he's okay with not accomplishing anything until later this year.

I completely agree with R6. The people who foisted Shitler on this nation should be the ones to suffer most. We're all going to suffer, but the greatest impact will be on the people who were stupid enough to believe that he and he alone could solve the problems we face. And, remember, it was a republican (Missouri Rep. Cynthia Davis) who said that hunger can be a positive motivator. Maybe the deplorables we be motivated for the party that doesn't eat their faces.

I hate Trump so much, it is pretty much ruining my elder years. How do I learn to ignore the destruction of my country? I can't move to another country. I try to act like I feel normal but I am full of sadness and anger.

[quote]Economists agree that NAFTA has been GREAT for our country's overall economy.

Yes, for investors. Corporate revenue and profits rise and that makes the effect on our economy look just peachy. Meanwhile, working people are fucked for the benefit of the investor class.

BTW, I don't know what the obsession is with tomatoes. I don't care if a sandwich no longer comes with a tomato slice.

[quote]Except that our agriculture is modeled for an international market.

This is 100% true. I live in Kansas and all our good products are shipped overseas, while we import more and more crap. Kroger would have sections of produce from local farms but the prices were 30% or more higher, so they quietly phased that out and now we're back to crap vegetables shipped in from Mexico, which is cheaper than local produce.

A few local ranches have lost their international trade agreements (mostly to Japan, I think because of some health issues with the beef) and the entire companies went under. Just selling locally didn't keep them afloat.

This will have major negative repercussions for the entire economy. Once NAFTA is gone and Trump is out of office, I doubt anyone will want to renegotiate a new deal with the US.

Now the world knows that we are a bunch of racist assholes, no one will want to do business with us.

so what should we do? buy gold? sell dollar? buy euro? buy swiss franc?

or just relax since the thing with the refugee didn't happen. maybe another judge will block this.

NAFTA was and is a very nasty trade agreement. Millions of high paying manufacturing jobs in the US were lost because of NAFTA.

If Mexico and Canada only come out of renegotiation with half of what they had before, they will probably still be screwing America, but at least less so. They can give up a lot and still get the better end of the deal. That's why they're in favor of renegotiation in the face of the threat of having the agreement completely ended.

[quote] NAFTA was and is a very nasty trade agreement. Millions of high paying manufacturing jobs in the US were lost because of NAFTA.

Nope.

[quote] NAFTA affected U.S. workers in four principal ways. First, it caused the loss of some 700,000 jobs as production moved to Mexico. Most of these losses came in California, Texas, Michigan, and other states where manufacturing is concentrated. To be sure, there were some job gains along the border in service and retail sectors resulting from increased trucking activity, but these gains are small in relation to the loses, and are in lower paying occupations. The vast majority of workers who lost jobs from NAFTA suffered a permanent loss of income.

Another broken promise to the deplorables. He's not going to da anything about NAFTA now.

Well, that was a whole lot of nothing for all of a few hours.

[quote] I'm sure the immediate effect will be market disruption, but maybe there's a bigger upside?

No. There isn't an upside. It took many, many, many years to offshore all the jobs to China. It will take longer than that for manufacturing jobs to come back to America. It's very complicated. America isn't set up for a massive manufacturing boom. You have to have a strategy to manufacture things. You have to have transportation, shipping, raw materials, packaging and many, many other aspects in place before you can manufacture things on a large scale. China has their entire system laid out. We don't even have a way to get the raw materials to manufacture on a large scale. We will have to get a lot of these materials from China. We'll have to get all the machinery from China. And China isn't stupid. Do you think they are just going to say, "Okay you can take all our manufacturing jobs and we'll be okay with it"? They're not going to do that. They will jack up the prices or interfere with America trying to take back manufacturing jobs. It will be many, many, many years before any sizable amount of manufacturing can be brought back to America. And during that time we will be paying outrageous prices for everything. This is a fucking disaster

Trump said just kidding.

We are going to renegotiate Nafta

But R91, China isn't in NAFTA.

China is an enormous market and when it opened to the world, it offered both cheap labor and potential massive consumer demand. Corporations were salivating over both. It's hard to get that from the domestic market.

Actually no R91. No jobs had gone to China until the last twenty years. As for jobs coming back, Wal-Mart ran a big series of ads last year in which they promised to oinvest $250 billion in new American manufacturing jobs currently being done in China, or did you miss that?

As for "infrastructure" our industrial infrastructure is way better than China's!

Indeed it is quite possibly that human economic productivity went backward in the last ten years for the first time since the industrial revolution started owing to the poor infrastructure in China, India, Bangladesh, Guatemala, El Salvador, and Vietnam.

NAFTA at 20: One Million U.S. Jobs Lost, Higher Income Inequality

Rep. Bernie Sanders (I-VT): NAFTA is a bad deal for American workers "NAFTA may be a good deal for the people who own our corporations, but it is a bad deal for American workers, for our family farmers, and it is bad for the environment."

[quote]Trump said just kidding.

Haley Byrd @byrdinator America is now the girlfriend who threatens to break up with u every day

This is bad. But the other huge part of the problem is that most Americans don't understand it. YOu say NAFTA to an auto worker and they want to fight you. The average American needs to understand what would happen if Trump got rid of NAFTA. They need to understand the costs and they also need to see the benefits. Right now, the auto industry in the USA is doing well. So start from there. Because if he rips up our trade agreements it will affect them. This is where the Dems fuck up. We should be running ads about healthcare and NAFTA. Coal too. It's hard to call your Congressmen and complain when you don't know WTF you're talking about. Even some online blurbs about these issues would be helpful. I shouldn't have to look for it. It should be accessible.

I meant the average American needs to see what it would cost to get rid of NAFTA versus the benefits we are getting by keeping NAFTA.

The Dems have a big problem with explaining shit.

The dumb shit must have figured out some federal judge somewhere would have put a stop to him quitting NAFTA, so he decided to stick it out so he wouldn't lose yet again.

Well darn, there's a real upside to this. If Mexico buddies up to China, maybe THEY can build the Wall. I hear they're very, very good at walls!!

[quote]I meant the average American needs to see what it would cost to get rid of NAFTA versus the benefits we are getting by keeping NAFTA.

Problem is, Sanders very effectively torpedoed that for the Dems even if they somehow find the best explanation to put forward.

Canada turns to Russia, of course.

We'll ALL be able to see Russia from our house.

"A Canadian government source said the draft order on NAFTA appeared to be posturing on the part of the administration ahead of negotiations. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said it was not surprising that Mr. Trump had become increasingly bellicose as talks drew nearer.

Canada’s NAFTA strategy – which has mostly consisted of trying to charm Mr. Trump and convince the United States that keeping markets open is in the country’s best interest – would not change as a result, the source said.

After Mr. Trudeau’s conversation with Mr. Trump, this strategy appeared to have borne fruit."

I hate tomatoes

Aaaaaand it ain't happening. "Art of the Deal" my eye.

[quote] R82: BTW, I don't know what the obsession is with tomatoes. I don't care if a sandwich no longer comes with a tomato slice.

A "tomato" is just used as a symbol meaning agricultural products or even everything.

I hated NAFTA but Trump can't get rid of it in one fell swoop. Can we just accept the fact that greedy corporate overlords have raped our middle class? Someone in our government should have protected workers but no one came to our aid...and it really all started with Reagan and his total disrespect for workers...the old fucker, wish he was burning in hell.

The problem is Trump has NEVER said what he would do to make it a better agreement,

More bullshit on Trump's part.

R108 I was just thinking his threats were a good example of Art of the Deal. Threaten to exit NAFTA so Canada and Mexico are open to better renegotiations. If those renegotiations aren't good enough he can STILL pull us out of NAFTA. People are jumping the gun left and right in this thread.

I hear you, r81. Sadly, you seem to have come down with a bad case of "giving a damn". It's been rather virulent these past 5 months.

R112, except that Canadian and Mexican leaders can see right through his bullshit. Pretty much every world leader either knows or will soon figure out exactly how to play him. There's NO incentive to take anything he says seriously because you can just flatter his stupid narcissistic ass into backing down.

Man, I was listening to NPR in my car this afternoon and they were interviewing some Mexican officials or heads of business organizations about Trump and his NAFTA storm and they really really really don't like him. If you're 'murican and you're in Mexico, they will yell at you about him for real.

[quote] [R82]: BTW, I don't know what the obsession is with tomatoes. I don't care if a sandwich no longer comes with a tomato slice.

This also means ketchup, too, in particular!

Trump just gave an interview that he doesn't want to make big changes to NAFTA, he wants them to be MASSIVE

[quote] If you're 'murican and you're in Mexico, they will yell at you about him for real.

If you're 'murican and you're in Mexico then you should be yelled at for your own stupidity.

R115 It's nothing new hearing about muricans being disliked abroad. You reap what you sow.

If you misspell America, even if intentionally, you can't be taken seriously. Just can you can still type it, doesn't mean a meme hasn't passed its expiration date.

Trump yet again said NAFTA needs to be RIPPED UP and go back to the drawing board.

he says it is the only way

He says a lot of things. Maybe 2% of it is accurate.

Why do i get the feeling the recent travel advisory the State department issued last week for Playa del Carmen, Cancun and Los Cabos was a negotiating chip meant to pressure Mexico?

Democratic presidential hopefuls Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama threatened to pull the United States out of the free trade agreement with Canada and Mexico unless it's renegotiated.

Clinton and Obama, who have both been critical of the North American Free Trade Agreement during their campaign, made the comments in a debate in Cleveland Tuesday. The deal is wildly unpopular with blue-collar workers in Ohio where manufacturing jobs have been lost.

NBC News moderator Tim Russert raised the issue, referring to a 1993 debate between then vice-president Al Gore and 1990s presidential candidate Ross Perot, in which Gore said if the U.S didn't like the agreement, it could get out in six months.

Clinton was asked if she would notify Canada and Mexico that the U.S. would pull out of the North American Free Trade Agreement within six months of her presidency.

"No. I will say, we will opt out of NAFTA unless we renegotiate it," Clinton said. "And we renegotiate it on terms that are favourable to all of America."

But they punted on the renegotiation part.

What's your fucking point, r124? Fucking Trumpsters. You and his other supporters need to be killed on the spot.

Thank you, R78.

I'm very, very concerned that Pence can end up teflon-ing his way out of Trump's unpopularity.

There should only be a trade deal with Canada and not Mexico. It's impossible to have a fair deal with Mexico. Also, Clinton and Gore's belief that a redistribution of American jobs to Mexico would stop the tidal wave of illegals into America has been proven to be completely false.

So they all sat around a table and plotted that Hurricane Harvey would be the most optimal time to pull this controversial move. Republicans always use tragedy to their gain.

Trump is merely following the orders of the President of the United States, Vladimir Putin.

Trump owes a lot to the victims of NAFTA. They are the ones who gave him the victory in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania and almost in Minnesota. He needs to make good on his promises.

Like the Deplorable unemployed factory workers know what NAFTA is (or what the letters even stand for).

Trump has yet again said today "NAFTA NEEDS TO BE RIPPED UP!"

if it's ok for Hillary and Obama to threaten "we will opt out of NAFTA unless we renegotiate it And we renegotiate it on terms that are favourable to all of America.", why can't Trump do the same?

Because he's full of shit 100% of the time.

Trump is being VERY CLEAR - He wants to RIP-UP NAFTA and to just have bilateral trade deals where he just deals with countries one on one, instead of having this one-size fits all trade deal that would cover all countries.

So It's Official! Trump to RIP-UP NAFTA!

[quote]Like the Deplorable unemployed factory workers know what NAFTA is (or what the letters even stand for).

NAFTA did contribute greatly to destroying the industrial base

Well there goes one of Bill Clinton's proudest accomplishments. The giant sucking sound delighted him.

[quote] NAFTA did contribute greatly to destroying the industrial base

[bold]Correction[/bold]. Get it right!

Bush Jr. and the Republicans destroyed the industrial base, which was going to Asia anyway, by taking down regulations so that large corporations could leave the country. Clinton's safety nets against deregulation were quickly taken down by the Repubs.

NAFTA at 20: One Million U.S. Jobs Lost, Higher Income Inequality

[quote]NAFTA at 20: One Million U.S. Jobs Lost, Higher Income Inequality

This is what you should take from that article.

[bold]That vote in 2000 came to bite them in the ass.[/bold]

HORRAY!!!!!!!!!! We'll finally be rid of this Bush-Clinton abomination.

R142 so you are fine paying $20.00 for avocados?

R143 I don't like avocados.

Well I guess deplorables want New York and California to have even more power. If NAFTA is removed, California will have an undisputed control of the food supply and tech in the country.

[quote]Prepare yourself for Mexico aligning closely with China.

People have been warning this for a while, but Spain is middling into Mexican politics again. The US should be careful of what is taking place to our immediate neighbors, whether South or North of the border. The thought of a foreign power having influence so close to home should make any American citizen feel uneasy.

[quote] The thought of a foreign power having influence so close to home should make any American citizen feel uneasy.

That is already happening right now with Putin being aligned with Trump

I'm surprised to see all these liberals defending a treaty drawn up and negotiated by George Bush.

R147 Nafta was signed by Clinton

R148 Indeed, it's a Bush-Clinton abomination, a bipartisan scandal.

It was a creation of Bush, signed by Clinton because there was no way to back out of it. Hence he put safety nets so American workers would not be stiff by companies. Bush Jr. took those down and allow Companies to leave the country to Asia in record numbers.

You also forget that Clinton policies did delayed the obvious push to automatized American jobs. Those jobs where going to be lost anyway, but at least that delayed some of the automation for a few years.

.....

What can we do about this? I don't want to die.

NAFTA was bad for the country but I don't think Trump is going to fight for something that will improve wages and living standards.

[quote]NAFTA was bad for the country

No it wasn't. Politically speaking it was a tool the US used to great effect. The Southwest and West Coast thrived under NAFTA. NAFTA allowed the US to end its dependency from Saudi oil and consequently paved the way to explore Green Energy because the US could afford to explore green energy. What happened is that Bush Jr and [bold]Republican states[/bold] allowed it to be abused instead of keeping it regulated. Most of the job loss came under Republican control.

The people that [bold]voted[/bold] for these lying Republicans over and over again share a lot of the blame for putting them in office to begin with.

Take California for example, people criticize it for over regulating, but those regulations have kept the state healthy and running.

Canadian news outlets are reporting that Trump has told Trudeau that NAFTA is over and will be withdrawn, ...

Well Canada provides most of our foreign oil. I feel bad for those states that didn't invest in green energy like the West Coast/South West did.

Red Country, girl you're in danger!!!!!

The US deteriorated after NAFTA

If NAFTA collapses, China takes over Canada.

[quote] The US deteriorated after NAFTA

Like you would pay $300 for a pair of jeans

[quote] Well Canada provides most of our foreign oil. I feel bad for those states that didn't invest in green energy like the West Coast/South West did.

Why? Did I miss the part about a trade embargo?

The last pair of Levi's jeans I bought has "made in Egypt" on the tag inside

[quote]The US deteriorated after NAFTA

R157 = Paid Troll

The Economy blossomed in the 90s thanks to president Clinton. The US created 22 million permanent full time jobs. A feat unrivaled to this day and NAFTA was in full effect.

Any treaty that is unregulated will create problems, but that was not NAFTA's fault. [bold]Elections have consequences[/bold]. Deplorables voted to end regulations, and so they made their bed.

I had no idea that a president could do so much without any kind of oversight

Obama should have done a lot more

Trump is getting closer to RIPPING UP NAFTA!

Hum, what wealthy company will that benefit.

Whatever is bad for the American people, that is what Trump votes for. Putin tells him how to vote and Putin hates the American people, so how do you think it will all work out? Republicans sit and twiddled their thumbs.

As Ohio, Indiana, and Iowa are about to find out, you don't vote for the person that promises to destroy your agriculture trade and state economy.

They are silly if they think the will compete with the West Coast/Southwest which produces close to 90% of the nuts, friuts, and vegetables that are consumed in America. No counting the dairy and meat industries.

Trump the Nazi will bring our country to it's knees. With or without Nazi.

NAFTA did hurt the country - millions of lost jobs, stagnated wages. Reagan, then NAFTA were one two punches against the country. Millions of jobs lost, more poverty, decay, destroyed industrial base, Main Street and communities.

The country and its citizens would lose either way - NAFTA, TPP, and all the secret undemocratic "trade deals" are anti-worker, anti-environment and meant to destroy the economic gains of the 20th century. What is Trump's plan? Like Bernie fans, they hope for something - yet there is no plan presented. So it is just more destruction and poverty. Lose-lose situation.

R169= Deplorable troll .

Those jobs fled during Bush Jr. years. Those jobs would have fled to Asia either way because that's what Bush Jr. said he was going to do. It definitely did not hurt responsible states like California.

You are deplorable if you can't admit that NAFTA cost millions of jobs and stagnated wages. Everyone knows this.

I don’t think “everyone knows this”, R171. It’s very complicated and I doubt you understand it at all.

NAFTA is a law. Trump can’t just cancel it, can he? I wouldn’t think he can, unless the law contains a provision that allows it.

He might be able to undermine it, like he’s doing with the ACA, though.

I feel sorry for anyone who moved to the US or Canada from Canada or the US to take a job offer... not only will they end up unemployed & ineligible for benefits, they'll ALSO probably have to break their lease early & lose their security deposits. Americans will return home to buy coverage in a health insurance market that's been sabotaged by Trump.

That said, I'll be shocked if Paul Ryan doesn't personally tell Canada, "Ignore the idiot. Congress isn't going to approve withdrawal from NAFTA". This might even be the thing that gets the Republicans to impeach Trump.

When Trump finally gets impeached, it won't be the Democrats who do it, it'll be the Republicans. The Democrats will enthusiastically support impeachment, but they know they'll be better off politically if they let Republicans pull the trigger. Otherwise, they'll just turn Trump into a martyr & force Republicans who hate Trump to vote against impeachment for the sake of party politics.

lol @ R171. It kills him that he can't blame the loss of jobs on non-whites. Sorry Deplorable, but the loss of jobs lands squarely on those Deplorables that voted for a president that promised them to decimate unions and end business regulations so that large companies could move abroad and find cheap labor elsewhere.

Deplorables didn't want Gore. Well that worked well for them...

NAFTA worked under Clinton and in those states that kept regulations. Nothing stopped those other states from governing responsibly.

Deplorables that voted for Bush Jr. and Trump.

[quote]lol @ [R171]. It kills him that he can't blame the loss of jobs on non-whites. Sorry Deplorable, but the loss of jobs lands squarely on those Deplorables that voted for a president that promised them to decimate unions and end business regulations so that large companies could move abroad and find cheap labor elsewhere.

Your post is incoherent. Why are you trying to bring race into it? Job loss is something that people of all races faced. NAFTA hurt the Mexican working class in Mexico as well. The working class was attacked from Reagan to the present and NAFTA was a part of that.

The superrich have grabbed the bulk of the past three decades’ gains.

Only the 1% have benefited since 1979.

.....

Canada, Mexico to firmly reject US NAFTA proposals but will offer to keep negotiations going

The US is making such unrealistic demands that many feel the Trump administration are just going through the motions before killing the deal and of course blaming the other two countries for its demise. We really are becoming the unreliable laughingstock of the world.

To those of us living in the EU, him ripping up this deal would be a welcome boon. I know Canada would just fall back on an earlier bilateral trade deal with the US, but the EU-Canada trade would still intensify, especially after CETA (the EU-Canada FTA) went into effect last month.

As for Mexico, this should provide a great leverage in the EU-Mexico FTA talks that are expected to be wrapped up by the end of this year, with Mercosur and Japan FTAs following suit.

Trump should take note because that's what "winning" actually looks like.

He is destroying our country bit by bit.

U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer says it should be our way (USA) and no way. He is SHOCKED that Canada is REFUSING to accept any of their demands.

Lighthizer BLASTED Canada and described being "surprised and disappointed by the resistance to change on the part of our negotiating partners," and urged all sides to consider being more flexible before the talks resume again in Mexico next month.

NAFTA talks are being extended into 2018 — a tacit admission that negotiators aren't going to meet their original deadline for a deal by year-end.

R10 that seems an inevitable scenario but the trumpers think other counties need to do what we say or else - or else what, they move forward quite nicely and we are left behind?

Press conference question for Trump:

Have you assessed the reaction of South American countries vis à vis your NAFTA demands?

After Trump blathers on, a follow-up question:

Do you know what vis à vis means?

R185 it is as if the US is a former hot girl realizing her power in the world has been dwindling without her knowledge

The political elite must want this, otherwise they would have got rid of him a long time ago. They want the US reduced to China levels. That's globalism. They all want it.

Trade secretary Wilbur Ross tells Canada accept our demands or we walk away from the table.

Yayyy!

Donald Trump to Canada "Take it or leave it"

Trump says after he gets his tax plan passed he will RIP-UP NAFTA!

nafta was bad for all 3 countries and great for the plutocracy/corporatocracy. period. when do we realize we are overtaxed without representation? we're not even called citizens anymore. they refer to us as taxpayers. we fund everything. get nothing for our money. and everybody is PARTISAN AS FUCK as if they care about gays and minorities. they use us.

R194 so are okay with paying $300 for a pair of pants?

r195 i'm thrift store ALL the way.

They weren't $300 before NAFTA, R195. Why lie? Is it the only way you think you can "win" an argument?

R194 is 100% correct.

R197 they will be $300 AFTER NAFTA

R196 they will be costed at $200 at the thrift store.

Liar at R198, they were not $300 before NAFTA because pre-NAFTA there was industry that made pants in this country. And people had jobs that were something other than call centers.. So you could buy reasonably priced pants with your above starvation salary. That is common sense and basic to a decent well-functioning country.

Go to Barney's if you want your $300 pants so badly.

[quote]so are okay with paying $300 for a pair of pants?

Why do you hate capitalism?

when levi's were made in the usa they lasted for years. they were such a good quality product and they were a great investment. levi's red tab didn't change much and always looked good on a guy with a packing butt. i remember guys crotches fading and waring around their junk because they wore these jeans for 10 YEARS. when they moved production to china we get shitty jeans now. almost all jeans are made in china now. there is a documentary called "jean blue", factory owners negotiate with dkny or diesel (insert brand here) and they pay 1.15 or less per pair of jeans. the factory is like indentured servitude and you LIVE there. it was snowing and there were no windows just dorm style bunkbeds. filled with teenaged girls. it was awful. anybody that would pay 175 dollars for a pair of jeans is a fool and you deserve to be laughed at. they make these bags $3000 or 10$ yeezy sneakers and jack the price up knowing that insecure fools will pay for these status items because they are lost sheep. facebook instagram and twitter are designed to keep you jealous and insecure and buying these foolish things. the rich folks are laughing at you! and so am i! consumerist twats.

*china blue the documentary is called "china blue"

Canada is now preparing for the USA to withdraw on NAFTA

Nope.

Just why is it so important that “you” retain hegemony in Mexico and South America? Why can’t other nations trade bigger and better with the Mexicans than they do now? Are you happy that your nation has so much power over a neighboring, very much poorer country? Of course you are, because to keep your avocados are cheaper it’s worth manipulating a whole nations policies when it may not be to their benefit.

Mexico would have a far more balanced and successful economy if half its value of exports to the USA was attained instead from more to Canada and better trade with Europe and China. But I wouldn’t expect selfish, self righteous liberal elites to think let alone care about that. Better to virtue signal about poor Mexicans treatment in the USA and retain influence of their Home country’s economy. God forbid they be allowed to help themselves elsewhere! Pathetic!!

Trump just gave a new interview where he said RIPPING UP NAFTA is the only way to revamp it.

We should be able to get a bilateral agreement with Canada quickly after we escape NAFTA.

R208 Trump is telling Canada "take it or leave it" how is that negotiation?

Do you think Trump knows that ripping up NAFTA just means WTO rules take effect? Canada and Mexico might take that if Trump demands a one sided deal.

The Trump voting Carrier employees, newly employed coal miners and such can use their Trump bonuses to cover the higher prices created by this administrations trade policies.

Ripping up NAFTA is a fake as BUILD THE WALL

The only way this will go through is if the elite of all three nations want a sudden big drop to China's standard of living and working conditions....which I guess is possible...