Are you taking PrEP?

From an editorial in today's Irish Times:

Anti-HIV drug removes personal responsibility: PrEP promotes an attitude of play now, pay later among men who have sex with men.

Recent figures on the rise of HIV transmission among men who have sex with men (MSM) in Ireland would indicate an epidemic not seen since the disease was first recognised in the early 1980s. Back then the preferred tool of prevention among the gay population was condom use, today it is a drug referred to simply as PrEP.

While lauded by the gay press as being responsible for significant decreases in the spread of HIV among gay populations in major cities around the world, I would argue that Pre-exposure Prophylaxis is a solution which removes personal responsibility in relation to the transmission of HIV, increases the practice of unprotected sexual behaviour and will, ultimately, be responsible for widespread liver disease among gay populations in 10-15 years from now.

What I fear at the moment is a resurgence of the old “gay plague” rhetoric of the 1980s whereby gay and bisexual men are viewed as irresponsible and apathetic in relation to their sexual health.

What PrEP is in danger of promoting, in my view, is a policy of play now, pay later which the gay population can ill afford to embrace.

R1 the safe sex all the time with condoms has failed.

Ah PrEP, the whore's false sense of security.

[quote]the safe sex all the time with condoms has failed.

No question. I'm just not sure a pill is a better solution. I'm sure it will decrease the rate of HIV diagnoses, which is great -- but, much like the Irish editorial writer, I think there will be some significant long-term consequences.

I'm using PrEP; have been since September. The first month it was a bit rough, stomach issues, headaches, but nothing too bad.

Stomach issues and headaches for a month is not 'too bad' r5?

It's very easy to prevent HIV infection without this drug.

Prep as prevention is a joke. We already know the virus has outsmarted it and developed resistance. We have NO IDEA how widespread the resistance is.

I'm taking this instead.

Yes, I've been on it for the last three years with absolutely no side effects. Additionally, I have bareback sex with my boyfriend, who's HIV+ and on treatment and he's currently undetectable. Part of the PreP program is that I get tested every three months for HIV and STI's and I'm still negative and STI free. I also get a full liver panel twice a year and as of my last test (2 months ago), my liver levels are all normal.

Actually, during my last check up my doctor discussed with me that the fact that in light of my boyfriend's undetectable status, that I don't really need to be on PreP because the chance of me getting infected by my boyfriend is so infinitesimally low. But i told him I'll stay on PreP because my boyfriend and I have the occasional 3 way now and then, so I need protection against that.

It's my choice and it works for me. IMHO I think if more people were on PreP, HIV infection rates would significantly be reduced in the Western world.

The worst is the prep whores on Grindr who go *crickets* the second you mention using a condom.

Who is more irritating climate change deniers or PrEP deniers?

r9 "PreP whores", really? It could be argued that just being on Grindr makes you a whore yourself, condom or no.

R11, I'll gladly own my sluttiness all while wearing a condom. Will you, while you bareback every dick you can get your hands on?

Oh come on, r11. Everyone knows that prep is making people take more risks. It's why STD rates have increased.

STD rates have increased because no one is using condoms, not because everyone is on PrEP. Big difference

R8 you sound like a suicidal nut.

Well this thread should bring out nothing but measured and well-reason comments.

[quote] [R9] "PreP whores", really? It could be argued that just being on Grindr makes you a whore yourself, condom or no.

In the hierarchy of whores, the PrEP variety is at the bottom of the scale.

I don't do butt stuff.

r15, I'm just repeating what my doctor told me. BTW take a read at this article hopefully you'll get some use out of it. Especially point #1

r17 "In the hierarchy of whores, the PrEP variety is at the bottom of the scale."

So the person on PreP, who is actually doing something proactive to protect themselves from infection is condemned for using a proven prophylaxis?

I really don't understand this attitude. Crazy.

r14, i couldn't agree with you more!

R19's article is from POZ. They're not exactly impartial.

I will bet my last dollar that most of the Prep whores do not pay the full price for the medication. Who pays for it then? Why can we spend the money for cancer research instead ... the selfishness of large number of gay men does really bother me.

Is there any science about long term problems? PrEP is very potent and I would think that long term use would really compromise your liver and kidneys. People are jumping in too fast and the drug companies are loving it.

[quote] People are jumping in too fast and the drug companies are loving it.

Almost as much as the bareback whores.

There was a time before AIDS and thanks to all the cumdumps we'll be looking back fondly at the time before something else.

PrEP works only if it is taken as directed. That means every day. You are taking a huge risk if you miss a dose and you probably will.

You still have to use condoms, you morons.

I tried it a few years ago. Didn't work out. Got Hep C. Sure it prevents HIV transmission. Silver lining - I was one of the lucky ones whose immune system cleared Hep C infection on my own, and within months. Otherwise it would have been a 60K price tag - the drug is not covered for all Hep C sufferers. I stopped PrEP because it was a bad incentive for me to be a bareback pig.

r22, yes the magazine is called POZ but the study was real and in no way affiliated with POZ magazine, they were just reporting it. Google "The Partner Study" and see for yourself.

how did my post end up here!

Where can I buy PrEP online without a prescription?

[quote]STD rates have increased because no one is using condoms, not because everyone is on PrEP. Big difference

I can't tell if this is a joke. Well played.

People are ditching condoms WHEN they go on prep.

Whores always ruin everything.

The PreP Diaries

Why would anyone click on an article link with that picture?

did Gilead Pharma commission that book? The interview sounds like a sales pitch:

"It gives me so much peace of mind and confidence, both of which makes for better sex. [Being on it] means I never have to worry about HIV being a factor in whether or not I form a relationship with another person, I don’t have to worry about it scaring me out of sex or doing certain things. "

Nobody would say that unless they are being paid to say that.

No mention AT ALL of resistance or side effects, which is suspicious. And no mention of the increase in STDs.

We have no idea what happens to people who take powerful antivirals for a long time and don't have HIV. Cannot be good for the liver.

r36, the link does have a picture. a guy seemingly floating in blue pills.

PrEP is going to work until the HIV mutates into a stronger and resistant strain which is immune to any protections PrEP offers -- and then the nightmare will start all over again. Plus, as another person said, the long term damage to the liver is likely to be very bad.

I've had 4 boyfriends who were positive or had AIDS and we always used condoms. I'm still negative. This bullshit about barebacking is the sexual equivalent of bungee jumping. But with anal warts.

[quote]I don’t have to worry about it scaring me out of sex or doing certain things.

Being scared of 'doing certain things' is a rational response to very real risks.

R29, there's very little evidence that Hep C can be transmitted sexually, unless there was lots of blood involved

Wrong R41. Hep C has been identified to come in waves of infection in european gays who bareback. This is according to the specialist at Geneva's medical centre who diagnosed me and followed me up. No need to be a fister or whatever.

Never heard that r42. Why would hep C be sexually transmitted in europe but not the US? Is there some new variant now that is easier to get there?

I take it. Started 18 months ago. Almost 40 years old. Grateful its out there. Had 2 medical problems that I was convinced put me at increased risk for contracting the virus even with condom usage. I had mouth sores--got them looked at and tested multiple times, then they finally went away when I stopped eating tomato sauce nightly and stopped squeezing lemons into my water. Go figure. Still on PreP though and love it.

Why do you love it r44?

R43 I am not sure the science knows why but the clinicians have observed it. Not related to fisting.

My doc said maybe because HIV+ guys get it more easily, and yes from sex, not just fisting, HIV- neg guys now barebacking with poz guys have more contact. He said its been noticed in waves of infection, just like HIV is noticed in these cities. Other guys like me who aren't fisters getting Hep C. When I took Prep I was a total bareback for about a year. All the decades of safe sex flew out the window and I was greedy for raw sex. Raw sex with fuck buds or strangers is not all that its cracked up to be. Better with a steady boyfriend. But my experience with steady boyfriends and agreeing to go bareback - that ended badly once with a boyfriend seroconverting through his piggy play outside the relation. Its a mess. I'm not anti PrEP. It prevents HIV for the moment so thats good. I do believe we will get that hard to cure clap soon enough. Or something like that.

I was answering my experience to the OP's question. I don't think PrEP made me sluttier cause I had my very slutty periods over the years, but it was safe sex. PrEP made my ass available for STDs! I got ass chlamydia too, that same bareback year. Who knows what else. After the ass chlamydia, I would come home from Berlin and Paris weekends and pop zithromax. Not a pretty picture.

r46 thank you for your honesty. You seem to be a good example of what people deny upthread: STDs are increasing because prep makes people ditch condoms. A nurse (gay guy) friend confirmed the same thing is happening where he lives, in the southwest US. Who knows where this is headed but it's probably not good. Never thought hep C was now sexually transmitted by the resurgence of barebacking.

From the article at r35, a quote from the author of the "PrEP Diaries", Evan J. Peterson:

[quote]Sexuality is so much more than attractive people helping each other [get off],” Peterson declares to Queerty. “You know, there is the politics of sexuality, there’s the people who get denied a sexuality in the media. I love writing about sexuality and investigating it.”

Um, quite a few people got "denied a sexuality" in your very first sentence there, Mr. Peterson.

[quote]there's very little evidence that Hep C can be transmitted sexually, unless there was lots of blood involved

In the last year, American researchers have demonstrated that hepatitis C virus can be found at infectious levels both in semen and the rectal mucosa. This fundamentally challenges the belief that hepatitis C can only be transmitted in blood.

Until now, most cases of sexually transmitted hepatitis C have been in gay men living with HIV, but clinicians have begun to identify cases of hepatitis C in HIV-negative gay men, especially among men using pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP).

In a recent London study, one-quarter of HIV-negative people acquiring hepatitis C were using PrEP.

I'm sure that every person who has HIV now wishes PrEP existed when they got it.

Sure PrEP isn't the greatest thing in the world, but it exists because condoms feel so bad that people just aren't using them, It's better to be protected with something rather than nothing.

Remember when gays used to complain that, if AIDS affected the straight community as strongly, there would have been some treatment by now. Well, we now have a pill that helps prevent it, yet people are complaining that it exists.

R49 interesting to see. Seems like very new information that contradicts all the previous studies about Hep C.

I wonder if anyone will care now that there's a cure for Hep C.

Anyone have experience with On-Demand Prep--using it intermittently like just over a weekend?

Some studies show it works.,

Sometimes I wonder about casual sex outside of my relationship, but it's too skeevy. On Grindr all the guys not elderly seem to be on Prep, and most look like they have one STI or two. That's not PC, but did anyone see that British documentary about chemsex? Skeevy as fuck. The guys looked unhealthy and dirty.

I just don't want to ever have an STI and it seems like people on Prep mostly don't care if they get warts or whatever, as long as they don't get HIV. I cannot wrap my head around that. If you hate condoms find a (trustworthy) boyfriend already.

r49 that is horrifying.

Most of the sex-negative harpies on here are against nearly all sex and relationships. That is to say, they would never admit that there is any sort of sex or relationship that is worth the risk and aggravation. This is mentally ill, but then again, this is the Datalounge.

PrEP is doing one good thing, which is, it is reducing the number of people acquiring HIV. That is enough good to advocate its use. Nobody has ever, and your slut-shaming will never, sufficiently disencourage people from having sex, or from having the "wrong" kinds of sex. So the way to deal with the HIV-acquisition problem is whatever works, in real life, with people who have real sex.

People are not dropping like flies from liver disease caused by ARVs. On the other hand, people with HIV and on meds and undetectable are coming down with things like cancer and liver and heart disease. This is believed to be caused by immune problems related to HIV and not to the meds themselves. So again, preventing HIV infection is important.

The increase in other STDs is unfortunate. Yes, a return to more committed and monogamous relationships would help. Maybe the harpies could focus their attention on why that is not happening. Real reasons, not just slut-shaming and tropes about personal responsibility. Inject a little empathy in there. Maybe they could start talking about how to make monogamy more popular. Funny, gay marriage was made legal at a time that nobody seems to want to marry. Why is that?

And who cares about who is paying for Truvada? When are you idiots going to stop with the Randian notion that the only people who deserve to have life, liberty, health, happiness are those people who can afford to purchase it on the open market?

I love sloppy sex. PrEP isn't perfect but I can get nasty without too much worry

So Prep has been out a while. Has the rate of HIV infection slowed as a result?

[quote]Sure PrEP isn't the greatest thing in the world, but it exists because condoms feel so bad that people just aren't using them...

Wow, you just make up your own "facts", huh?

I can guarantee PrEP is in NO WAY in existence because of anything condoms do or don't do! Avoiding HIV is very easy, and there's an "organic", drug-free, inexpensive, "non-toxic" way to do it.....Condoms! You have to take them out of the wrapper and apply them to your penis though!

Viruses mutate and new viruses come along, just saying.

[quote]So Prep has been out a while. Has the rate of HIV infection slowed as a result?

From January 2017: Among men who have sex with men, the number of new HIV infections has remained surprisingly stable. In 2015, there were 26,376 HIV infections attributed to male-male sexual contact, compared with 26,338 in 2010. (The intervening years also saw about 26,000 HIV infections every year.) Since PrEP was approved in 2012, its uptake has been highest among men who have sex with men. What’s going on, and why doesn’t the number of HIV diagnoses among men who have sex with men seem to be declining as PrEP use is increasing?

In some places—such as San Francisco—the number of new infections is on the decline, and experts attribute this at least in part to PrEP. But country-wide, it seems like PrEP’s impact is much smaller than it could be.

The reason, according to research published recently in the Journal of Infectious Diseases, is likely due to coverage. Far fewer people are taking PrEP now than need to be for PrEP to significantly reduce the percentage of new infections that happen every year.

It’s not known exactly how many people in the U.S. are taking PrEP, although the number likely falls far short of need. One study, presented in July of 2016, counted 60,872 men in the U.S. taking PrEP. This is far fewer than the estimated 492,000 men who have sex with men in the U.S. that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate have “substantial” HIV risk that would make them appropriate candidates for PrEP.

r55, bravo very well written. as to why PreP has not reduced HIV+ infections rates is that most people at risk don't know about it.

DLer's just the fact that we're discussing thing on this forum puts you/we outside of the people who really need to be on PreP. Case in point...

My partner and I have been together for 6 years and for the most part monogamous. Once or twice a year we hook up with a random 3rd we meet at a bar or party. it's very rare for us. but of course very fun to add a little extra flavor in our sex life.

but last year my BF met a guy on his walk down to the market. BF is flirting and the other guy is flirting back. BF texts me about this guy and can he bring him home, I say sure.

So BF and a complete stranger (Mr. 3rd) walk into our home and Mr. 3rd is gorgeous. I'm really excited and so is my Bf. But when Mr. 3rd takes off his clothes and he's got the biggest, hottest dick I've ever seen - porn size hugeness. Wow, we both frantically start searching for condoms, when Mr. 3rd says he's straight and hasn't done this with many men, BUT when he does he like to get fucked. I literally say, "you have that donkey dick and you're a bottom?" he says, "yep I've disappointed many guys before you too".

OK, change of plans we're going to fuck Mr. 3rd (BF and I are both versatile) put when we start to put on condoms, he says, no condoms I want it raw. BF and I both stop and say are you one PreP? He looks at us and says "what's PreP?"

So we stop everything and get his story... he's straight and married with 3 kids and 4 grandkids (btw he's only 49 years old Italian that doesn't show his age, but that wouldn't have mattered once you saw his huge dick) and he like to cross dress and get fucked by guys in secret.

He actually admitted that this was his first time in a room with men while not in his crossdress persona "Amber". With all the talk of gender fluid and such, we/the media forget that there's such a thing as transvestites, guys (usually straight) that get off on wear women's clothes and having sex with a male or female. this guy was one of them.

back to the story, so after the major "what's PreP?" answer I tell him and say if he's going to do barebacking behind his wife's back he's got to go on PreP and what it is and what it does, and that he probably tell his wife too. but he says he could never tell anyone in his life his secret cross-dressing life and getting butt fucked.

so ok, if you stayed with me through this long anecdote, here's the perfect example of someone who needs PreP. Not gay (I know, he's bi at the very least) but he's watched enough bareback porn that he's bought into the whole bareback bitch thing but doesn't know how to better navigate this sexual fantasy landmine.

BF and I tell him to go to the local gay community center and ask for PreP, not only for his life but the life of his wife. And then proceeded to fuck him for hours with without condoms since we're both on PreP and are 100% sure we are negative because we get tested for HIV/STI every three months and are still HIV-and STI free.

PS: this was back in November on 2016, BF and I have been tested twice since out encounter with Mr. 3rd and we know responsibly that we didn't pass along any virus or STI to Mr. 3rd because our test results say so.

Mr. 3rd lucked out hooking up with two individuals that are on PreP. He could/might not be so lucky the him next time around if he didn't take our advice and get on PreP.

So there you go.

Gotta agree, r61, if you want to fuck strangers who turn out to be closeted trannies, prep is definitely for you. Hope tranny closet case doesn't give the wife any other of the STDs that are on the rise due to all the prep-related freedoms we now enjoy.

Prep me up buddy! I want to be cool like you!

r61 here. I don't why my post didn't show up in chrome, but it did show up in Mozilla/Firefox.

R55, bravo very well written. as to why PreP has not reduced HIV+ infections rates is that most people at risk don't know about it.

DLer's just the fact that we're discussing thing on this forum puts you/we outside of the people who really need to be on PreP. Case in point...

My partner and I have been together for 6 years and for the most part monogamous. Once or twice a year we hook up with a random 3rd we meet at a bar or party. it's very rare for us. but of course very fun to add a little extra flavor in our sex life.

but last year my BF met a guy on his walk down to the market. BF is flirting and the other guy is flirting back. BF texts me about this guy and can he bring him home, I say sure.

So BF and a complete stranger (Mr. 3rd) walk into our home and Mr. 3rd is gorgeous. I'm really excited and so is my Bf. But when Mr. 3rd takes off his clothes and he's got the biggest, hottest dick I've ever seen - porn size hugeness. Wow, we both frantically start searching for condoms, when Mr. 3rd says he's straight and hasn't done this with many men, BUT when he does he like to get fucked. I literally say, "you have that donkey dick and you're a bottom?" he says, "yep I've disappointed many guys before you too".

OK, change of plans we're going to fuck Mr. 3rd (BF and I are both versatile) put when we start to put on condoms, he says, no condoms I want it raw. BF and I both stop and say are you one PreP? He looks at us and says "what's PreP?"

So we stop everything and get his story... he's straight and married with 3 kids and 4 grandkids (btw he's only 49 years old Italian that doesn't show his age, but that wouldn't have mattered once you saw his huge dick) and he like to cross dress and get fucked by guys in secret.

He actually admitted that this was his first time in a room with men while not in his crossdress persona "Amber". With all the talk of gender fluid and such, we/the media forget that there's such a thing as transvestites, guys (usually straight) that get off on wear women's clothes and having sex with a male or female. this guy was one of them.

back to the story, so after the major "what's PreP?" answer I tell him and say if he's going to do barebacking behind his wife's back he's got to go on PreP and what it is and what it does, and that he probably tell his wife too. but he says he could never tell anyone in his life his secret cross-dressing life and getting butt fucked.

so ok, if you stayed with me through this long anecdote, here's the perfect example of someone who needs PreP. Not gay (I know, he's bi at the very least) but he's watched enough bareback porn that he's bought into the whole bareback bitch thing but doesn't know how to better navigate this sexual fantasy landmine.

BF and I tell him to go to the local gay community center and ask for PreP, not only for his life but the life of his wife. And then proceeded to fuck him for hours with without condoms since we're both on PreP and are 100% sure we are negative because we get tested for HIV/STI every three months and are still HIV-and STI free.

PS: this was back in November on 2016, BF and I have been tested twice since out encounter with Mr. 3rd and we know responsibly that we didn't pass along any virus or STI to Mr. 3rd because our test results say so.

Mr. 3rd lucked out hooking up with two individuals that are on PreP. He could/might not be so lucky the next time around if he didn't take our advice and get on PreP.

So there you go

You posted the tranny fucking anecdote twice.

Your story is more pathetic than it is an argument in favor of prep. I actually feel sorry for you. But feel more sorry for the wife of tranny closet case who doesn't know her husband is out barebacking with strangers.

Fruitloops come from kamloops

[quote]Mr. 3rd lucked out hooking up with two individuals that are on PreP. He could/might not be so lucky the next time around if he didn't take our advice and get on PreP.

Wow dude. Kudos to all 3 of you for living the dream.

r64 [quote]Your story is more pathetic than it is an argument in favor of prep. I actually feel sorry for you. But feel more sorry for the wife of tranny closet case who doesn't know her husband is out barebacking with stranger

i know this is an old thread, but i just came by it tonight.

why is this pathetic? We told the guy if he's going to do what he's doing he needs to protect himself. BF and I are neg and on PreP and did our best to let him know what his options were. Should we have just kicked him out of the house and told him nothing? Please tell me what was pathetic about informing someone in the closet that there's medication out there that will protect him AND his wife. We made a point about his responsibilities about screwing around with guys behind her back and not take the proper protections. Again he was lucky that bf and i are neg and on PreP and he'd get no bugs from out brief encounter.

r66, if that's your attitude, you're not worth responding to.

What happens when the new version of HIV comes along?

A virus that reeks havoc on already damaged livers?

[quote]reeks havoc

You're gonna need more than PrEP. You need SAT-PrEP!

Küper @onlykuper I know condoms suck but honestly this whole shaming people that want to use them is so toxic. Like we get it you NEED the cum in you but maybe they don’t NEED your syphilis?