Seriosly, what could go wrong with that?
Parents Drop Off Two 13 year-old Girls On A Remote Trail So They Can Go Hiking
|by Anonymous||reply 600||07/23/2017|
This is what happens when you have time to plan ahead.
|by Anonymous||reply 1||02/16/2017|
I guess my story is forgotten.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||02/16/2017|
I don't know that I'd be so quick to judge; in rural areas, kids play unsupervised in remote areas all the time. Because there is so little crime in areas like this, people tend to be a bit complacent about this kind of stuff.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||02/16/2017|
Prayers going up for these two sweet angel-babies! Dear Jesus, what is going on in this world?!?! Thankfully, the Lord always listens to [italic]my[/italic] prayers and keeps my precious babies safe from all harm. I guess He just likes me more.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||02/16/2017|
I was camping in the woods with my friends even younger than that.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||02/16/2017|
R3, between the child trafficking rings and the meth labs, there's plenty of crime in the remote regions of Indiana.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||02/16/2017|
They're all white peoples, right?
|by Anonymous||reply 7||02/16/2017|
r5, We live in different times. Alas.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||02/16/2017|
Something's fishy - what are these kids doing in whatever woods in FEBRUARY on an early Monday afternoon (school hours)?
|by Anonymous||reply 9||02/16/2017|
They are probably homeschooled r9. The weather in Indiana has been very mild.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||02/16/2017|
Their school was out for the day to use up a snow day.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||02/16/2017|
R11 is correct. I live very near there and school was out on Monday. Also, R10 was partially right; we are having a freaky mild winter this year. It's supposed to be in the mid-60's for the next three days, and then "cool back" to the 50's later next week. We've gotten less than five inches of snow all winter.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||02/16/2017|
If the parents were hoping for a (very) post-natal abortion, it looks like they got their wish!
|by Anonymous||reply 13||02/16/2017|
I thought it was an older sister who dropped them off?
Right now police are at a home on a search warrant. Creepy and sad case, with the snap chat photos. How was the image of the man captured?... The area looks so eerie and remote. Lots of speculation that they were meeting someone from social media.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||02/16/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 15||02/17/2017|
R1, that was the best Patsy quote in quite sometime. I am having some pineapple for breakfast in your honor.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||02/17/2017|
I wouldn't be surprised if the parents become the leading suspects.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||02/17/2017|
I think that people would have felt they were safe to do this because there were two of them. They didn't just leave one person on their own. People have a false sense of safety if they have another person with them. Most don't realize that safety in numbers is 5-10 people. and people still don't realize that no matter where you are it isn't safe and there is no such thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||02/17/2017|
R18, um no, some parents are just not capable of taking care of children.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||02/17/2017|
[quote]some parents are just not capable of taking care of children.
Most 13 and 14-year-old girls are capable of taking care of younger children.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||02/17/2017|
I was fascinated by this story the link led me to.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||02/17/2017|
Oh how I've missed Patsy.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||02/17/2017|
[Quote]Most 13 and 14-year-old girls are capable of taking care of younger children.
We're not talking about foreign teenagers here. The average American teenager lags behind in many ways, compared to their overseas counterparts. The US is in decline as evidence by the poor behavior and low IQ level of most of its youth.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||02/17/2017|
R23, millions of 13 and 14-year-olds in the USA babysit younger kids.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||02/17/2017|
R4, I hate you but I love you if that makes sense.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||02/17/2017|
[Quote][R23], millions of 13 and 14-year-olds in the USA babysit younger kids.
And some shouldn't be left in charge of a house plant- just sayin'.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||02/17/2017|
This is interesting: four years ago, the mom of Abigail Williams apparently posted a photo of the bridge the girls were found on yesterday. Weird coincidence.
But the girls weren't dragged out there unwillingly and I don't think anyone (like a relative) was with them, because they were snapchatting while hiking.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||02/17/2017|
what is snapchatting?
|by Anonymous||reply 28||02/17/2017|
[quote]Abigail "Abby" Williams,13, and Liberty "Libby" German,
Really, white and black people who pull this shit with their kids' names should be arrested the moment right before the birth certificate is actually filled out.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||02/17/2017|
Were the girls being punished?
|by Anonymous||reply 30||02/17/2017|
It was probably militia practice.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||02/17/2017|
I'm waiting for more information to be released in this case.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||02/18/2017|
Did the find the killer?
|by Anonymous||reply 33||02/18/2017|
r30, Maybe being set up.
Oh, wait. Parents never kill their children.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||02/18/2017|
No, R33, they're still trying to identify the man in the blurry photos, but he's a main suspect now.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||02/19/2017|
r35 is it Bigfoot? Nessie?
|by Anonymous||reply 36||02/19/2017|
They have a susoect. Wonder how they got his picture.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||02/21/2017|
r37 is it timestamped for 30 mins after they went missing? I wonder if there's a camera on that rickety bridge.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||02/21/2017|
[quote]We live in different times. Alas.
Ugh, I hate this false platitude. America is actually SAFER in the modern era than any other era. Just in the past you weren't plugged into all the crime going on around you were constantly scared and hearing every horror story.
Plenty of articles about these stats, just pulled the first one.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||02/21/2017|
r39 is right, why we barely have any serial killers any more, it's like the sk economy has dried up and when someone does get killed, the person is soon seen on footage somewhere. No way would a Bundy, Gacy, Corll, Dahmer, or even that fucking moron Ramirez be able to operate now.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||02/21/2017|
Ugh r39, don't be stupid. The statistics for violence against children has grown exponentially over the decades. Years ago, kids could walk around alone and, for the most part, return home unharmed. Not saying crime didn't happen, but the nature of crime (sadistic, irrational violence) against children has definitely escalated.
A couple of years ago, a 4 year old in my building wandered off as his mother chatted with a neighbor. I'd say within about 3 minute, he was approached and led away by a casual acquaintance of his parents. Thank goodness passersby stopped him.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||02/21/2017|
The statistics for violence against children has grown exponentially over the decades.---no it hasn't you just blather without any attribution. Turn off Fox News and interact with the real world.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||02/21/2017|
Thank you r42. That person is blatantly wrong, but dammit they want it to be true so it must be.
Look at the data, America in the modern era is SAFER than it has ever been. That's just a fact.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||02/21/2017|
God needed two more angels. That's the only explanation...
|by Anonymous||reply 44||02/21/2017|
I don't think crime has increased that much. But, people are much more paranoid and unwilling to let their kids go off on their own. Not all parents, but more.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||02/21/2017|
R38, no there's no camera on the bridge or anywhere else on the trail, although plans are now in place to install them. R37, the speculation is that it is from Libby's phone and they retrieved it from "the cloud." It's very creepy to think that she saw this guy walking toward them and felt threatened enough to take a picture of him; it does look like it was taken in haste. There's going to be a police press conference tomorrow (Tuesday) where more details of the crime will be revealed.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||02/21/2017|
How terrible! This is the first I have heard about it. I am very suspicious of the photo of the "strange man", how do they know one of the girls took the photo? Couldn't the killer have used the phone to take the mystery man's photo in order to take the heat off of himself? It could just be some random guy that was walking by and had nothing to do with the girls' murder.
I wonder who else knew that the girls were going to be there.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||02/21/2017|
Although crime statistics have declined since the early 1990s, they are still significantly higher than when our parents/ grandparents were growing up in the 60s & 70s.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||02/21/2017|
R48 it's because of no internet back then. The deep and dark web supports pornographic child abuse inclusive of snuff videos.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||02/21/2017|
How did they die? Maybe it was wild animals or starvation.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||02/21/2017|
Yep, I'm sure they died of starvation between 1 pm and 10 pm on Monday, and then wild animals gnawed up what was left of them, r50.
That's probably exactly what happened. Case closed!
|by Anonymous||reply 51||02/22/2017|
Did the press conference take place? Any updates on the case?
|by Anonymous||reply 52||02/22/2017|
Yes. Mainly it was the investigating officers thanking everybody for their support ad nauseum. They still aren't revealing very much but they did confirm that the picture of the suspect was from LIbby's phone. They also played a short audio clip of a man's voice saying "Down the hill." They said there's even more on her phone, including video footage, but they're not willing to disclose it at this time. And that was it. They took questions but answered very few and said nothing other than to reiterate the information they'd given out earlier.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||02/22/2017|
This is nothing. When I was a kid, we used to play in traffic.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||02/22/2017|
[quote]I wonder who else knew that the girls were going to be there.
Anyone near the entrance of the hiking trail would have seen them get dropped off.
If he was a local and knew there was no school that day, he may have staked the place out, knowing it was popular with kids during nice weather.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||02/22/2017|
... I've been following this case from the very beginning (posted above) and have since moved over to web sleuths and a growing Facebook page full of discussion and speculation. I originally suspected a particular local, but this individual and the home has been cleared.
Those poor girls. I couldn't even sleep well knowing the news conference would be happening today... linked below is the audio released from Liberty's phone, on the Indiana police web site. Very clearly you can hear a man say "Get down the hill" -- I hope they catch this guy, but I'm afraid the case will grow cold. Although there seems to be plenty the police isn't revealing to the public and you have to wonder if she recorded the whole attack.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||02/22/2017|
That 'down the hill' audio was ridiculous. It is easier to understand Charlie Brown's teacher.
I would love for it to help solve the case, but it is of such poor quality ........
|by Anonymous||reply 57||02/22/2017|
I take it back.
The audio (I listened to the repeated one) on that sheriff site are MUCH better quality than what was played on the Facebook Live press conference.
Best of luck to them. Hope it gets solved soon.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||02/22/2017|
R57, its much better in the clip they posted online. Couldn't hear anything from the news conference sound. Authorities were very emotional, so I am guessing the murder scene was gruesome. Plenty of unknown in this case. What strikes me is that they were dropped off at 1:30, last pic of Abby was 2:07, then shortly after it seems the crime took place. So hurried.. if it was a chance encounter. And while this area is isolated there WERE other people walking around - its a historic bridge/trial. Guy is just so bold. Unfortunately they called off the search at midnight as well. I just hope that more details are revealed, or if not, they catch someone soon. He could be anywhere by now.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||02/22/2017|
Is it possible that the killer tracked them down via their Snapchat activity? Their pictures/video and descriptions could have alerted him that two girls were alone in a remote area he's familiar with. I'm assuming it works like Twitter -- sent out publicly unless the account is set to private.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||02/22/2017|
I wonder, R60. Social media could be involved, then they'd have a great trail on this guy, but something tells me they don't. I'm in my 30's and don't even know how Snapchat works. I thought it was only set to private and among selected friends.
|by Anonymous||reply 61||02/22/2017|
I'd have to ask one of my tweens, but I'm pretty sure Snapchat requires you to explicitly set up an exchange with a particular person or group; it's not public in the sense that it broadcasts to anyone who happens to be around.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||02/22/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 63||02/22/2017|
R56 what is the FB page?
|by Anonymous||reply 64||02/22/2017|
The Snapchat photos wouldn't have been seen by anyone except their friends. The police could get the photos and video from her phone, though.
It sounds like one of the girls deliberately left her phone on during the attack. I'd bet the police have more on the guy than we know about, but it's a transient person or someone otherwise hard to identify because he's not from that town.
|by Anonymous||reply 65||02/22/2017|
R23, the average IQ has gone up everywhere. Republicans believe everything was better in the past because they hate social progress
|by Anonymous||reply 66||02/22/2017|
[quote] I'm pretty sure Snapchat requires you to explicitly set up an exchange with a particular person or group; it's not public in the sense that it broadcasts to anyone who happens to be around.
I guess this might leave open the possibility that the attacker was someone known to them which makes it all the more disturbing.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||02/22/2017|
How did they die?
|by Anonymous||reply 68||02/22/2017|
It hasn't been disclosed r68. I hope they weren't raped. Poor dears...
|by Anonymous||reply 69||02/22/2017|
Certainly the police know way more than they disclosing (other than the obvious how they died). They may even know who the perp is and they're playing dumb until they have all their ducks in a row to arrest him.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||02/22/2017|
I wonder if he might have pushed them off the bridge.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||02/22/2017|
No, he ordered them "down the hill" r71. He had really bad intentions with those two teens. Maybe another person was involved?
|by Anonymous||reply 72||02/22/2017|
R71 is blank for me. Anyone else?
|by Anonymous||reply 73||02/22/2017|
Do you think maybe he killed the small girl by throwing the fat girl on top of her?
|by Anonymous||reply 74||02/22/2017|
Yeah, thanks for that holiday surprise, mommy.
|by Anonymous||reply 75||02/22/2017|
You're terrible, R74.
|by Anonymous||reply 76||02/22/2017|
R73, you may have put R71 on ignore at some point.
|by Anonymous||reply 77||02/22/2017|
Hmmm... Abner the village idiot, in the ravine, with the fat girl.
|by Anonymous||reply 78||02/22/2017|
Was he just waiting there the whole time, for anyone. Or was he stalking them?
|by Anonymous||reply 79||02/22/2017|
You probably had him on ignore, R73. I already did.
R79, the police at the press conference said they considered Libby a hero for having the presence of mind to turn her phone on when the guy started to act suspiciously. He wasn't someone they knew, apparently.
It's scary that these girls couldn't outrun the guy who looks like he's walking unsteadily. I assume he had a weapon.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||02/23/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 81||02/23/2017|
Thank you very much for your post as well, [R56]! Man, hearing the suspect's voice in perfect quality from the link you shared was really disturbing/chilling.
He's not yelling at them to "get down the hill", but he sounds so menacing and commanding when he says it and you can sense the ill intent in his voice. The girls must have been terrified.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||02/23/2017|
crime rates may not have changed but there is more crime. In 1945 right after WWll the population in the US was 140 million people. Today it is estimated at 326 million. Far more people today and more to commit crimes.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||02/23/2017|
I bet this guy was a short distance away when they were dropped off. He probably didnt raise any red flags to them and just waited until the car drove off to pounce. This is why its important to always be vigilant. Looks can be deceiving.
|by Anonymous||reply 84||02/23/2017|
What good would being vigilant have done in this situation, r84? Should they have turned around and left in the car again just because there was a single, not visibly armed or dangerous man in the vicinity? They'd be shut-ins if they did that.
I assume he did have some kind of weapon, because I doubt that a 13- or 14-year-old girl who had the presence of mind to take pictures and record the situation with her phone would follow menacing instructions from a random unarmed stranger.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||02/23/2017|
[Quote]What good would being vigilant have done in this situation, [R84]? Should they have turned around and left in the car again just because there was a single, not visibly armed or dangerous man in the vicinity? They'd be shut-ins if they did that.
Assuming I'm correct, chances are if they had encountered a black male hiker in the vicinity instead, it would not have gone unoticed. They may have even returned home, and possibly made an anonymous call to law enforcement.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||02/23/2017|
Possibly, but the way this guy is dressed I think almost anyone would have called LE if they had seen him regardless of his race. He looks homeless and is hiding his face. They would have at the very least not dropped the girls off at that time.
I doubt they saw him. He was probably hidden. I would bet anything he was waiting at the beginning of the trail for someone to come along so he could commit the crime.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||02/23/2017|
Since that area is likely overwhelmingly white demographically, a black hiker would have qualified as an unexpected sight, so you are probably right that the girls would -- rightly or wrongly -- have been more careful around him.
But I don't think it's justified to expect two girls to drop their plans for a hike just because they see a single, unarmed man near a known hiking trail. Suggesting that they should have run puts a totally undue burden on the victims.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||02/23/2017|
the age of those girls and their inexperience of life would not have made them wary until this man approached them which would have been too late for them to run
|by Anonymous||reply 89||02/23/2017|
I'm not blaming the victims. Good lord, that's a vile accusation. You really want to derail the discussion with that?
I'm saying that most women, if they were about to drop off two girls at a remote hiking trail and saw a guy loitering around, would be wary, regardless of what the guy's race was and even if they didn't see a weapon. Because they weren't wary AND because it was about 40 minutes between being dropped off and the last photo AND because no one has said that a man was seen when the girls were dropped off, I suspect that he was either not right there or not visible to anyone.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||02/23/2017|
R89, most 13-year-old girls have had plenty of experience with creepers, and many have had discussions with teachers, family and friends about being aware of strangers and of their surroundings.
That's why Libby turned on her phone and recorded the guy as soon as she saw he was acting suspiciously. She very clearly recognized suspicious behavior. If she or Abigail or the older sister who dropped them off had seen anything like that when they first arrived at the trail, they wouldn't have gotten out of the car.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||02/23/2017|
r9113 year old girls may have experience with creepers in larger areas of the country. Where I live most 13 yr old girls would not have had this kind of experience. Having discussions and actual encounters are different. Once this man was close or encountered them is when I'm sure they became suspicious & why she turned on the phone. But just seeing the man probably didn't make them worried.
It took me over 20 years to convince my friends where I live that they shouldn't be out at night walking alone. They finally got the message a few years ago but these were grown women who just had no worry about any danger.
|by Anonymous||reply 92||02/23/2017|
[quote]But just seeing the man probably didn't make them worried.
There's a photo of the man taken from behind him as he's walking away, isn't there? That's what this photo seems to be, at any rate.
Okay, so you've never known any woman who knew by the age of 13 that you had to be careful of strangers. That's just super... but it's not the normal experience for kids, let alone for girls. Not even close. The idea that girls only get hassled in "larger areas of the country" (which means, what, cities?) is not statistically true.
|by Anonymous||reply 93||02/23/2017|
And here's a pertinent bit of info from a family member:
[quote]“She went hiking often,” Mike Patty, Liberty’s grandfather, previously told PEOPLE of his granddaughter, who he raised alongside his wife, Becky.
[quote]“We talked all the time [about safety], it was something that I stressed, but I guess not enough,” Patty said.
|by Anonymous||reply 94||02/23/2017|
I can't read this without wanting to kill that bastard and make him suffer. Those poor kids.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||02/23/2017|
My God, that bridge is so dangerous. No railings, falling apart. Is it just "normal" there for kids to be walking across it? Why do they allow it? (I know this is off-topic, but...)
|by Anonymous||reply 96||02/23/2017|
I used to go places like that, alone and with friends, back when in my early teens. But I'm a guy, and should be able to handle myself. Actually met a few creepers, but not any that became threatening. Until I was 15, when I allowed an off-duty policeman to jerk me off. (I was so horny, I'd have had sex with a tree if it was interested.) I told my parents, pressed charges, but got too scared to testify, and the case was dropped.
I'm lucky he didn't kill me.
|by Anonymous||reply 97||02/23/2017|
 here again. On the other hand, that was over 50 years ago, when young kids wandering off wasn't anything to worry about. And Halloween was an orgy of candy-gathering from strangers. I was wandering off alone in the woods even when I was 4 or so.
But, in these days, it strikes me as weird that anyone would let 2 young girls to wander around alone like that. In SoCal, a woman out jogging alone in the hills was attacked, and partially eaten, by a mountain lion. Frankly, a lot of women think they can do pretty much as they please, without any problem, to their eventual detriment. Men out alone, are more likely to be viewed as victimizers than victims.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||02/23/2017|
Although it's possible it was someone they knew and who followed them on snapchat, seeing that they were on the trail alone, I think it's highly unlikely. I think it's a case of the poor girls being at the wrong place, at the wrong time and coming across a bold predator. They clearly didn't know the guy, the snapshot is just too rough and obviously taken in a panic. She clearly knew something was off, and sent the pictures out on snapchat because it's the quickest avenue to reach everyone who happens to follow you with one click, rather than sending out a mass text or something like that. I really hope someone can identify this guy, although I'm sure above posters got it right saying the police probably know a lot more than they're letting on due to more evidence on her phone, likely some horrible stuff that is just not appropriate for the public, let alone their poor families to know right now.
|by Anonymous||reply 99||02/23/2017|
[quote] Those poor girls. I couldn't even sleep well knowing the news conference would be happening today.
Oh for Christ's sake.......
|by Anonymous||reply 100||02/23/2017|
I'm a grown man and I'm afraid to go in the woods by myself. Maybe if they'd had pepper spray they might have stood a chance.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||02/23/2017|
It's not like they were out hiking in the mountains on an overnight expedition or miles out of the trailhead. They were relatively close to civilization. I don't think it's out of the norm for kids to go on a day hike either. Especially if they are with a friend and they both had phones.
This seems like a crime of opportunity. Ask any woman, the overwhelming majority will have a story to tell about a close call. Adbuction attempts are much higher than statistics would reveal. Teenage girls are the most likely to be violently victimized.
It's likely this man is a transient. He sees two young girls alone and he follows them until his chance to force them out of site from the trail.
I hope they catch this fucker. Has web sleuths dug up any missing girls from the relative same area? It's doubtful this was his "first time" homocide.
|by Anonymous||reply 102||02/23/2017|
I think he pretended to be another teenager and lured them to the bridge when the girls thought it was another teen. Also I think the bodies were discovered that night but too mauled by an animal to identify them 100%. I think the predator brought dogs with him to help destroy evidence.
|by Anonymous||reply 103||02/23/2017|
How did he pretend to be a teenager, R103? Maybe they had passed other people on the trail and thought nothing of just passing by another stranger, and didn't realize until too late that he had malevolent plans. The bridge is a part of the trail, no one needed to be lured onto it.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||02/23/2017|
How do you know the bodies were mauled, R103? Did it say that somewhere?
|by Anonymous||reply 105||02/23/2017|
I think he passed himself off as a teenager online and they thought he was another teen they were meeting up with.
R103, it's not publicized anywhere.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||02/23/2017|
It does seem odd that a man that just happened to be hanging by a hiking trail/bridge in broad daylight sees two teenage girls and suddenly goes from transient or local guy on a walk to a double murderer of two girls. That's a big jump for someone to make morally/spontaneously.
Either he's done this before and is a serial predator who haunts remote areas (waiting all day I guess for someone vulnerable to appear so he can victimize them?), or he was stalking one or both girls (perhaps via social media) waiting for a time when they were *really alone*.
In this day and age of cell phones and technology everywhere, it was especially brazen of him to attack *2* girls and not be concerned about either one of them calling the police or a relative for help before he was finished. I wonder what the profile is on the type of person that would commit this type of crime in broad daylight?
|by Anonymous||reply 107||02/23/2017|
Let's say he had a gun. Are there any statistic about victims running away from a pointed gun when the alternative is rape or murder, or both? What I'm trying to say, would a rapist shoot a victim running away when the primal goal is rape, not murder?
If your chances are 50/50, I'd say run if you can.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||02/23/2017|
I think he immediately killed one girl. Which in turned put the other girl,in major shock. He then raped and murdered her.
Poor girls - just going out for a hike to enjoy the day.
|by Anonymous||reply 109||02/23/2017|
I read a little bit ago that there may have been more than one.
|by Anonymous||reply 110||02/23/2017|
To add, these girls were young and probably in shock as soon as the situation happened. I think any of us when faced with violence would be in shock. And there is probably a tiny part of you that thinks, maybe the attacker will listen to my pleas and let me go.
|by Anonymous||reply 111||02/23/2017|
I pulled my Indiana crime statistics manual and the county where Delphi is located has an extremely low crime rate it is not surprising that the parents in Delphi would let the girls go. Dephi isn't even near a well-traveled highway. I bet a lot of kids met along that trail to hang out
|by Anonymous||reply 112||02/23/2017|
Don't want to be a rain cloud over this tragedy, but they needs to check out gramp's alibi, as well as any male relatives or close friends of the family members.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||02/23/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 114||02/23/2017|
If it was grandpa or someone close to them, wouldn't someone in the area recognize the photo?
|by Anonymous||reply 115||02/23/2017|
Yeah. If the girls knew them, it's likely other of their friends or family does too. It's also possible police have a lead on the dude and just aren't revealing. They certainly know more they aren't revealing (as per the usual open investigation procedures)
|by Anonymous||reply 116||02/23/2017|
I love you R44
|by Anonymous||reply 117||02/23/2017|
[Quote]If it was grandpa or someone close to them, wouldn't someone in the area recognize the photo?
Not necessarily, people tend to assume these type of crimes are committed by "others" and draw a blank when confronted with the truth. Don't know for sure how the leads will pan out, but I won't bat an eye if the attacker turns out to be a close friend or relative of the family, and then it comes out that this individual was a sex offender who often babysat for one of the girls.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||02/23/2017|
1) he had to be acting oddly or the girl who recorded wouldn't have
2) I bet he had one of the girls under physical control (even just by the arm) to force the other to co operate ... he was controlling them both during the 'down the hill' recording
3) what is odd to me is that he didn't take their phones or think they had phones. So that, to me, puts him in a certain age group... so 45 + because thinking about a phone and its recording capabilities wasn't automatic. A younger person covering their tracks would not have forgotten to get their phones.
|by Anonymous||reply 119||02/23/2017|
Maybe "The Zodiac" should be required viewing in schools.
That young couple alone in the outdoors..........
|by Anonymous||reply 120||02/23/2017|
Nancy, if these girls were from Indiana wouldn't you think they'd work at a call centre, which is odd cause those accents are hard to understand.
|by Anonymous||reply 121||02/23/2017|
R96. The bridge is on private property owned by railroad company but the trail is owned/maintained by the state. People aren't supposed to walk on the bridge but since it is so close to the trail, people do anyway. The bridge is for sale. If you have $300,000 it can be yours!
|by Anonymous||reply 122||02/23/2017|
R56, post link to the FB page please!
|by Anonymous||reply 123||02/24/2017|
So authorities have now initiated thousands of electronic billboards across the nation with images of Abby & Libby and the still image of the man on the bridge. !!??!! I can't think of any other case where this has been done! I'm wondering if the DNA matched the DNA collected in other rape/murder cases around the country but the identity of the man is unknown. They are really pulling out all the stops to get this guy, I think they know he has killed many times before and will kill again. They really need to release ALL of the video footage of him, especially of him walking and his mannerisms etc because people are more likely to recognize that than just that grainy still image. I cannot understand why they haven't done that yet.
|by Anonymous||reply 124||02/24/2017|
[quote] A younger person covering their tracks would not have forgotten to get their phones.
You are the old one.
Police pulled the photo and the recording from the cloud, not from the phone.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||02/24/2017|
I forgot to ask R106, are you saying that the bodies definitely were mutilated because you have inside information? Or are local to the area and heard through the grapevine? It terrifies me to think what kind of monster we are dealing with here.
Something really strange about this case and how the authorities are handling it.
|by Anonymous||reply 126||02/24/2017|
Any updates from our very own DL Nancies Drew?
|by Anonymous||reply 127||02/26/2017|
I feel that the guy threw them off the bridge. This seems like a very strange crime..
|by Anonymous||reply 128||02/26/2017|
How could no one not recognize his picture?
|by Anonymous||reply 129||02/27/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 130||02/27/2017|
The owner of the property where the girls were found said they had to have walked to the place where the bodies were located. There is no way he could have carried them down the hill and through the heavy plant growth.
And he had to have had some kind of weapon - two 13 year old girls would have been impossible to handle for one person if both were struggling to get away.
I have not heard of any mutilation of the bodies - and this is the lead story on every newscast here in Indiana. The police are playing it very close to the vest - so I hope they are just building a strong case.
|by Anonymous||reply 131||02/27/2017|
R125, it doesn't matter where the pics came from - stored on the phone or in the cloud - they were taken on the phone. Or do you think there are magical clouds that take photos?
|by Anonymous||reply 132||02/27/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 133||02/27/2017|
Thanks for the update, R131. Keep us posted.
|by Anonymous||reply 134||02/27/2017|
Yes, thank you, [R131]!
|by Anonymous||reply 135||02/27/2017|
There are weird things about this case, including how one dude snatched two teenagers so quickly & in open view. What are sites with all the gossip on this?
|by Anonymous||reply 136||02/28/2017|
If he had a weapon he could have controlled both girls, or if he managed to sneak up on one girl and hurt her badly enough to scare the other girl into compliance. But I wouldn't rule out that there were two people there. The police have kind of hinted at it.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||02/28/2017|
Yes, r136, it's SO difficult to abduct and murder "in open view."
|by Anonymous||reply 138||02/28/2017|
Any updates on this story?
|by Anonymous||reply 139||02/28/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 140||02/28/2017|
I'm sorry I clicked on this thread. So sad and depressing.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||02/28/2017|
I should say I'm sorry that this thread has to exist. Jesus.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||02/28/2017|
Okay, they hauled a guy out of the Chrysler KTP plant in Kokomo today for questioning. He was convicted of the attempted rape of an eleven-year-old girl back in 1988. I know his name but can't say until I'm sure it's him. And I'm not sure it's him at all, because after his questioning, he went on Facebook and said that he had given a DNA sample and that everyone else should, too! Pretty brazen thing to do if he's guilty.
I think if you just google the girls' names and "Chrysler KTP Kokomo" it would probably come up, because crime sites on the internet are going crazy.
|by Anonymous||reply 143||02/28/2017|
R143. He was questioned and released. Respectfully, I don't think it would be fair to post his name or picture. I'd still be interested in hearing your stories. Are you local? I live 30 minutes from Delphi and have heard a few things as well; some more credible than others.
The police seem to be seriously frustrated with the amount of time they are spending dealing with rumors and speculation on social media (not to mention complaints from guys who's names and faces have been posted.) Three local news sites had articles/interviews with LE today encouraging people to ease up. Amateur detectives are clogging up the tip phone lines and posting names and photos of innocent men. In this article, the sheriff encourages people to call the tip line if they have "legitimate" information and to contact an attorney if they feel they've been libeled. I'm guessing LE are sick of dealing with the Jessica Fletcher wannabes from websleuthes and Reddit calling in with their theories and "tips." I love gossip as much as the next person but it should be confined to gossip sites like DL rather than bothering the police.
|by Anonymous||reply 144||02/28/2017|
On reddit they were making fun of websleuths saying they were posting all sorts of crazy things
|by Anonymous||reply 145||02/28/2017|
The big reason I hate the Websleuths ladies here is because they use DL as a place to talk about libelous theories they have about suspects, stuff that WS deletes when it gets out of hand. DL doesn't monitor them. They frequently encourage each other and crazies with weird stories to call police.
I hate that they're actively interfering with this case.
|by Anonymous||reply 146||02/28/2017|
Were they pitties R103?
|by Anonymous||reply 147||02/28/2017|
Well R144 my take on it is that LE have nobody to blame but themselves. They release a blurry, grainy still image of a man who could be any midwestern male age 20-55. They did not release any additional data whatsoever as what they think his approximate age, weight, height, etc. is. So yeah, you have millions of scared people looking at every man who wears baggy jeans, hoodie, and navy jacket. Which is just about every man in flyover country. They have VIDEO of this man walking, they need to release a video of him walking, even if it is only a few short seconds, because he is not going to be identified by the photo alone, it could be anyone...but someone might recognize his walk or something about him distinctive to him.
So yeah, people are freaking out and it is becoming a huge witch hunt. I heard that threats have been made to the property owner where the girls were found. It's out of control, LE needs to release more information NOW. Not only because it's out of control with the finger-pointing but because they still have nobody in custody! What are they waiting for, him to kill again? They have the nation's attention right now, so give us some more information right now that we can use to help identify this guy.
|by Anonymous||reply 148||02/28/2017|
That's why I didn't say his name, r144. It wouldn't be right. But he's really not helping himself by engaging amateur sleuths on Facebook and calling them "assholes." He should just STFU.
No, I'm not local, and I don't know anything else. And I agree that they need to release more or they're just not going to catch this guy. I've seen so many people guessing his age age as 40's or 50's but hell, ALL Midwest guys of ALL ages dress like that. Really, who do they think they dress like-- Kanye or Justin Bieber?
|by Anonymous||reply 149||03/01/2017|
Lol^ If he was dressed like Bieber, there'd be tips pouring in to point to Jessica Simpson's father.
Why is there discussion on websleuths of the perp's dick pics???
|by Anonymous||reply 150||03/01/2017|
They're not releasing whole video clips and audio and more pictures for a reason. Probably because what they have is evidence and they don't want to taint a potential jury pool, but also very probably because what's on the footage is disturbing.
And as someone who has lived in the Midwest most of my life, I disagree with the idea that this looks like every guy around here. The two photos indicate he was lumbering, not walking straight, first of all. Second, no one has three coats zipped up like that unless it's incredibly cold, though there are some homeless folks who wear their jackets in that manner. Putting his hands in the brown hoodie pockets with a zipped-up blue windbreaker over that is DEFINITELY not something I see everyday.
|by Anonymous||reply 151||03/01/2017|
Biggest news today is that Colts owner Jim Irsay and Colts Kicker Pat McAfee have pledged $97,000 to the reward in the case.....it's now nearly $200,000.
Somebody is gonna talk! They have received over 4,000 tips on the hotline - of course most of them are useless and a waste of time to follow up on, but someone knows something!
|by Anonymous||reply 152||03/01/2017|
13 years old (especially 13 year old girls) is too young to be out hiking alone. Period. I don't care where it takes place, children that age shouldn't be doing that without an adult.
It's the same old story. This is such a nice place, such a nice area, with such nice people. Why there's hardly any crime here! Nothing bad could ever happen HERE...until it does.
|by Anonymous||reply 153||03/01/2017|
On reddit/websleuths they were saying locals said they saw another man there, dressed in black that day
|by Anonymous||reply 154||03/01/2017|
Question: Is this area known for any cult activity or animal sacrifice?
|by Anonymous||reply 155||03/01/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 156||03/01/2017|
Not meaningless if there's some freak running around out there looking for two 13 year old virgins to sacrifice. Weren't they mutilated?
|by Anonymous||reply 157||03/01/2017|
R157 that shit does not happen. It was made up by conservatives in the late '80s to demonstrate what pot and heavy metal could lead to. People commit sick, heinous, disgusting murders, but the kind of thing you're talking about just doesn't happen.
|by Anonymous||reply 158||03/01/2017|
R126, I know some LE in a nearby county and they seemed to have been saying they heard this about the girls being mauled.
I'm glad the families are not bothered by the media.
|by Anonymous||reply 159||03/01/2017|
Oh, lovely! I see that Baphomet at r158 has joined us again. If you add up the letters in his post numerologically, I guarantee that the sum will reduce down to a big, fat, evil 33.
|by Anonymous||reply 160||03/01/2017|
Come on Michelle, we all know you made that dumb shit up to please your parents.
|by Anonymous||reply 161||03/01/2017|
What's the biggest lie the devil ever pulled off?
|by Anonymous||reply 162||03/01/2017|
The guy in the picture might not be the guy (or guys) who killed them. The voice saying "down the hill" might not belong to the killer (s), either. Has anybody considered that?
|by Anonymous||reply 163||03/01/2017|
Some interesting developments/gossip. Locals say that Libby's older sister was the one who dropped the girls off at the park, at about 1:00pm. Public searches reveal that this family it is quite dysfunctional, Libby's father is or was in prison for dealing meth. Libby lived with her maternal grandfather (who has a few battery on his record) and step-grandmother since age 3. I wondered from the beginning if the connection between the murdered girls and their killer was the sister that dropped them off. Not necessarily that she was purposely involved, just maybe told the wrong people they were going to be there that day. After the girls were found murdered, a girl came forward shortly after and told police she and another friend had been there that day around the same time on the trails and near the bridge but did not see A&L or the suspect. Oh, except they did see strange man "all dressed in black". Someone located this girl's snapchat, and she has a pic of the same bridge the murdered girls were on, taken after but within about 30 minutes of when the girls were last know to be on the bridge. Interesting. Oh, and it was discovered that this girl is good friends with Libby's sister! I don't know what to make of all that but I think some people who were close to at least one of the victims might know more about what happened to those girls.
|by Anonymous||reply 164||03/01/2017|
It looks like that might be some kind of carpenter's belt below his jacket, where he might be hiding a weapon.
|by Anonymous||reply 165||03/01/2017|
Anti-conspiracy, anti-satanist worshipper, anti-cabal troll at R158. I don't believe it so it cannot exist.
|by Anonymous||reply 166||03/01/2017|
R166, I rest my case.
|by Anonymous||reply 167||03/02/2017|
Yes I'm sure "the devil" is the one to blame because some fat pasty piece of shit murdered two teenage girls.
|by Anonymous||reply 168||03/02/2017|
I am so tired of our resident "Pedophile Satanist" troll. She shows up on every fucking true crime thread blabbering away about children abducted and murdered by people who have horns and a pitchfork.
The devil is not real, darlin'. You know what is real? Sociopaths and pychopaths. Unless this man who is pictured above right before he killed the girls, has horns underneath his hoodie, then you can rest assured that this double homicide was committed by a psychopath. Not Satan, or for Satan.
Please get a fucking grip, and understand that evil stems from personality disordered individuals. There was no fucking sacrificial pentagram found at the crime scene. The man was captured speaking plain English via a digital recording, he wasn't speaking Beelzebub.
|by Anonymous||reply 169||03/02/2017|
[quote]Public searches reveal that this family it is quite dysfunctional
ENOUGH. Stop stalking the victim's families and coming back here to report the "news."
And people, stop claiming the victims were mutilated. That's completely made up. Just look at R159's "evidence" for it -- they claim to know some people in law enforcement who "seemed to be saying" that they had "heard" from another source that the girls were mauled. COME ON. That's as bad as the numerology troll.
DL used to have such great crime threads. I hate what these threads have become.
|by Anonymous||reply 170||03/02/2017|
Local police have released NO information on the condition of the bodies when they were found. People who keep coming here to say they "heard" from "somebody" that they were mutilated cannot know what they are talking about.
This usually comes from the fact that local authorities did not immediately identify the two bodies as the missing girls - leading some to believe that they were not recognizable. None of this has been confirmed or denied by the people at the head of the investigation.
|by Anonymous||reply 171||03/02/2017|
one that websleuths site they said there were two other missing girls about an hour away, around the same age
|by Anonymous||reply 172||03/02/2017|
That is NOT being reported locally R172.
|by Anonymous||reply 173||03/02/2017|
If one or both of these girl was/were raped, then it is easier to understand motive.
If not, then I wonder if the man felt threatened by the girls. Was he out there committing another crime and he thought the girls spotted him? Maybe he was out there burying a body, or drugs, or cash, and he thought the girls may have seen him, and couldn't take any chances.
I hope this guy is found. But unless someone comes forward, I honestly believe this guy is dust in the wind.
|by Anonymous||reply 174||03/02/2017|
I wonder what ever happened to Dustin DeWind?.....
|by Anonymous||reply 175||03/02/2017|
I think, but am not sure, that the two other girls murdered an hour away happened in 2012, but it was very similar in that the girls were best friends, of the same age, and they both looked similar to each other, like Libby and Abby.
Their names were Lyric and Elizabeth and they were found in similar circumstances, found murdered at Seven Bridges Wildlife Park, in Iowa.
There was speculation on Websleuths that there is a manufacturing plant close to the place in Iowa, and another branch of the same company in Indiana, and they are wondering if the man might be a worker who may have worked or been familiar with both places. Apparently, some people think that the man is wearing elastic bands around the edge of his pants that are worn to keep protective booties on in the factory.
|by Anonymous||reply 176||03/02/2017|
The story of the two cousins that were murdered in 2012 near the area where these two were murdered is eerily similar. They were last seen between 12:30 and 1pm. These girls were last seen around 1pm and the last Snapchat was around 2pm. This guy doesn't look homeless- he dresses like a guy that lives in a rural area in the Midwest. Seems like the murderer of all four of these girls might have been on a lunch break. Hopefully, LE is canvassing the local businesses to see if someone was late returning from lunch. But I don't have much faith in Indiana LE from following the Davey Blackburn case.
"Lyric R. Cook, 10, and her cousin, Elizabeth Collins, 8, were reported missing to the Evansdale Police Department in Evansdale, Iowa, on Friday, July 13, 2012.
The girls were seen at about 12:23 p.m. July 13 on Brovan Boulevard in Evansdale, and then spotted between 12:30 and 1 p.m. on Gilbert Drive not far from Meyers Lake, a popular fishing and recreation area in the northeastern Iowa city of about 4,700 residents."
|by Anonymous||reply 177||03/02/2017|
Oh fuck off back to Webseluths R170. That thread nannying doesn't fly here on DL! The backgrounds of the victims' families can often be clues as to what happened, especially if the victims are children. Libby's family is something else...Grandpa is leaving no stone unturned as far as cashing in on this tragedy goes. Just four days after the girls' bodies were found, Grandpa had a ball at a memorial biker ride, which he described the same day as "AWESOME!". The donations from that ride were around $60k, which he split with Abby's mother, so he got about 30k. I agree, that's pretty awesome! Too bad the little girl is still dead and no justice for her. There is of course a GoFundMe for Libby's family for "expenses", they are asking 10k and are already over 8k. There is also at least one bank account set up for people to donate to Libby's family, and several other businesses and organizations collecting money for them. They have also been given money directly. The 30k should have been more than enough to cover any funeral expenses. What other "expenses" do they need money for? Sorry but I really hate when people cash in on another's misfortune, especially their own family members.
And another day that the perp is still roaming free. Is he really that smart, or just really lucky?
|by Anonymous||reply 178||03/02/2017|
Here's my theory:
It's the same guy that killed the two girls in 2012. He was transferred to the manufacturing plant near Delphi from the one near Evansdale (where the two girls were murdered in 2012). He has a full time job and a family (hence, he has to murder during the day, during his lunch break). He goes to areas that he knows young girls will be, and has to take 2 girls, as girls don't go to these places by themselves. He picks areas like near a lake or hiking trail because he can take the girls off the main trail and rape/kill them. He used a gun to force them to go with him.
|by Anonymous||reply 179||03/02/2017|
I can not read this long thread but more than likely the girls arranged to have boyfriends meet them after parents had dropped them off. That would be the normal thing for 13 year old girls to do and more then likely, just guys they met on line. Everyone knows that, right?
|by Anonymous||reply 180||03/02/2017|
There were two other girls that went missing in Indiana an hour from that place in December 2016, just a few months ago.
|by Anonymous||reply 181||03/02/2017|
Actually, the crime scenes are about six hours apart - but don't let that stop you from sleuthing.
|by Anonymous||reply 182||03/02/2017|
I know of two pretty teen girls. Ordered in a wooded area many years ago. They were shot, killer or killers never caught. It seems to be a common thing that happens. Why are guys so anxious to kill girls?
|by Anonymous||reply 183||03/02/2017|
The case of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook was very highly publicized at the time because Lyric's parents were busted for drugs not long after Lyric was found dead.
The chances that THAT high-profile case is somehow related to THIS high-profile case are very, very low.
Lyric's mother Misty is serving 10 years, for what it's worth. The dad got 90 years if I recall.
|by Anonymous||reply 184||03/02/2017|
I don't know what case you are referring to R182. There were two that went missing from Atlanta, Indiana in Dec 2016.
|by Anonymous||reply 185||03/02/2017|
If you're trying to say the murderer worked at an Iowa plant near where Lyric and Elizabeth were killed, then transferred to the Chrysler plant in Kokomo near where Abigail and Libby were killed, then... no.
There are no Chrysler plants in Iowa.
|by Anonymous||reply 186||03/02/2017|
Tyson Food plant and Indiana Packers, not Chrysler
|by Anonymous||reply 187||03/02/2017|
They were probably killed by a guy in school who knew them or a young friend of the family, the point was, the guy just had the urge to kill...he probably killed animals when he was a kid.
|by Anonymous||reply 188||03/02/2017|
he looks like he is 45-55 yrs old
|by Anonymous||reply 189||03/02/2017|
I don't think the Chrysler guy had anything to do with it.
The girls were dropped off at the park at about 1-1:30pm, they were supposed to be picked up between 3-3:30 pm. They were alive on the bridge at 2:07 pm. So whatever happened to them, happened between 2:07 and 3:30-ish. That is NOT a lot of time! A very narrow window for when this crime would have occurred (unless he took them elsewhere and then brought them back and dumped them but I think that is unlikely). I really, really think that someone knew they were going to be there, that they would be alone, and for how long. If they were adults, I would think this was a "hit". I would love to know if they were sexually assaulted.
|by Anonymous||reply 190||03/02/2017|
I don't know R189, I am thinking much younger, 25-35.
|by Anonymous||reply 191||03/02/2017|
I'm with r191. This guy isn't that old. Something about his stride-- even seen in two still photos-- does not say "old" or even "middle-aged" to me at all. He's moving quickly and confidently, like a younger man.
|by Anonymous||reply 192||03/02/2017|
Well then I am changing my mind...thinking this olderguy pretended to be young and handsome and he got them to meet him out there by the bridge.
If kids refuse to wise up about carfishing, I don't know how we can save them.
|by Anonymous||reply 193||03/02/2017|
I'd like to know where this guy that works at the local Tyson Foods was at 2pm on the day of the murders. Same bushy mustache and wide nose.
|by Anonymous||reply 194||03/02/2017|
I think what some people are seeing as a mustache and goatee may be just the way the sun and shadows are hitting his face. The photos are just not clear enough to know those details. If they were, the police would have included facial characteristics in their description or had a sketch artist do a facial drawing-- but they haven't.
|by Anonymous||reply 195||03/02/2017|
Still, the pictures are enough that somebody should be able to somewhat recognize a neighbor. iI's a small town with less that 3,000 people. it makes sense to look at a truck driver that was taking a load to a nearby plant. It takes hours and sometimes days for a truck to be loaded/unloaded. You have to wait your turn. Could explain the missing girls in other areas. And it's definitely facial hair. You can clearly see the guy's lips, so it's not shading or shadows.
|by Anonymous||reply 196||03/02/2017|
And it looks more like a hunting hat than a hoodie.
|by Anonymous||reply 197||03/02/2017|
So y'all are just going to post real peoples' Facebook photos here on DL, asking if they're murderers of young girls?
This is really something you think is morally and ethically okay?
|by Anonymous||reply 198||03/02/2017|
I listened to the digital recording of the suspect's voice several times on the FBI website. The man sounds like he is over 40 years old.
What is interesting is that the pictures of him seem like from his torso down, he's older, but from his torso up, he appears younger. However, when I view the pictures as a whole, he appears to be middle aged. At least over 30.
I know that this is going to sound odd, but he also appears to be walking with a limp, or like he may be constipated.
|by Anonymous||reply 199||03/02/2017|
R198, That was a post from Tyson Foods' FB page. They have no suspects over two weeks later. Check EVERYONE. wtf will it hurt? This is obviously not the first time this fucker has done this and it won't be the last.
|by Anonymous||reply 200||03/02/2017|
There are horrifying stories like this yet we blame parents for hovering.
|by Anonymous||reply 201||03/02/2017|
I agree with R198. It is not ethically OK to post pictures of people who we have never met, and hint at their possible involvement. Of course everyone should be checked out, but that is the job of LEOs, not us.
Unless you think you think you recognize this man, it is completely irresponsible to post pictures of strangers, and even then, you would call the police, not post pictures of someone you suspect, on random websites.
|by Anonymous||reply 202||03/02/2017|
[quote]Why are guys so anxious to kill girls?
R183, guys who are into it claim murder is the ultimate orgasm. They do girls because they're straight and because teens think they're immortal and tend to take stupid risks.
|by Anonymous||reply 203||03/02/2017|
Two different cases and two different posts - wasn't keeping up. Sorry. Reward now up to $116,000+.
|by Anonymous||reply 204||03/02/2017|
There's also an element of thinking familiar places are safe.
When that young NYC woman was murdered in a swampy area near her home recently, I looked at the photos and thought the place looked spooky and not somewhere I would have felt safe alone, but later reports said she and her father ran there frequently. She had probably not seen anything scary before then, so she thought she was safe.
A woman co-worker got raped a few years ago running on a biking/running trail where she felt safe because there are always people around, but the guy who raped her (and several other women before he got caught) was enough of a predator to hide and wait for the right time.
|by Anonymous||reply 205||03/02/2017|
How can people think this is a young guy? I think he looks over 40.
|by Anonymous||reply 206||03/02/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 207||03/02/2017|
The picture is just too shitty. But honestly a lot of younger guys in middle America don't take care of themselves at all and can look over 40.
|by Anonymous||reply 208||03/02/2017|
Seems both the past murdered little girls (Lyric & Elizabeth) & these recent 2 had parents involved in meth trade - is the entire flyover working in meth so it's just a coincidence? Or else maybe there's an organized meth cartel that kills children over their parents' debts.
Or maybe THE DEVIL has a particular fondness for methfaces' kids lol.
|by Anonymous||reply 209||03/02/2017|
Minimum 50's, r206.
|by Anonymous||reply 210||03/02/2017|
Yeah, I really think 50s, R210.
|by Anonymous||reply 211||03/02/2017|
Why aren't the police releasing video from Snapchat? Why just this picture?
|by Anonymous||reply 212||03/02/2017|
R209, according to this Evansville TV news report, Indiana is the meth capital of the US.
|by Anonymous||reply 213||03/02/2017|
It would be hard to express just how much I hate that you bring these sensationalist frau crime-porn items here all the time. Don't tell me to ignore the thread. I'm going to give you as much shit about your trailer trash interests stinking up our website as I want and that's frequently.
|by Anonymous||reply 214||03/02/2017|
r214 has not gotten laid in a VERY long time.
|by Anonymous||reply 215||03/02/2017|
VERY VERY long time R215. When he pulls his Fruit-of-the-looms down cobwebs, dust bunnies, and fruit flies tumble out.
|by Anonymous||reply 216||03/02/2017|
I think that the poor quality of the image is distorting the man's appearance. His posture/stance can't be judged from this image because he was walking across an old, hazardous bridge with rotting and missing planks so he was likely walking "cautiously". I will honestly be surprised if he is over the age of 40. I still say 25-35.
|by Anonymous||reply 217||03/02/2017|
Run along back to the presenting hole thread r214
|by Anonymous||reply 218||03/02/2017|
I think the involvement of the FBI is interesting. Typically, only the Indiana State Police would aid the local sheriff in a small county investigation.
|by Anonymous||reply 219||03/02/2017|
Yes, r219, it's obvious that LE thinks, for whatever reason, that this guy is from out of state. Perhaps a suspicious truck was spotted nearby? Who knows.
|by Anonymous||reply 220||03/02/2017|
r194's post is reprehensible. Didn't we learn anything from Reddit after the Boston Marathon bombings? Still can't fathom how many innocent bystanders' photos got cropped & zoomed. "It's him! He looks Middle Eastern and suspicious!" I swear there are far too many crime dramas on broadcast TV. Everyone thinks he/she is a detective these days.
|by Anonymous||reply 221||03/02/2017|
If this man is a local who has a job or even a roommate or neighbors, then someone would know who it is. Someone would have said, "Hey, that's Billy down the street from us", or "Hey, that's Keith's and Shelly's good for nothing unemployed son who moved back here after his divorce". Everyone knows everyone in towns that are this small.
This may be a guy from out of state, who gets the urge to drive to wherever, and survey areas such as this one, until he finds a victim or victims to kill. Perhaps he only strikes out every 3 to 10 years. And it would be really easy to determine where someone is if you are on their Snapchat.
I just can't imagine a local getting away with this.
|by Anonymous||reply 222||03/02/2017|
I agree, r222. He might be a truck driver / long haul trucker.
|by Anonymous||reply 223||03/02/2017|
It looks like Hilda from down on Conklin Street.
|by Anonymous||reply 224||03/02/2017|
It could very well be a woman in drag as a man. This would explain the fact that no one has recognized the unsub yet. Has the sister accounted for her whereabouts? I'd be VERY curious about that. This unsub has clearly struck before and likely will AGAIN.
|by Anonymous||reply 225||03/02/2017|
F&F for r194. How incredibly irresponsible to post the photo of a person that is not linked to this crime in any way.
R200 is a moron too.
|by Anonymous||reply 226||03/02/2017|
Agreed R226. Plus, that man is too old and too heavy set to be the perp. R194 is not only ignorant, he's stupid as well.
|by Anonymous||reply 227||03/02/2017|
A WOMAN IN DRAG, R225?!?!?!?! That's as ridiculous as the fool that always shows up in JonBenet threads that claim she killed herself to set her family up because of all the abuse.
|by Anonymous||reply 228||03/02/2017|
I feel sorry for all your cats.
|by Anonymous||reply 229||03/02/2017|
R194. Posting that picture and information is wrong and in no way helps the situation. Also, to other posters criticizing the families, leave them alone for gods sake. How cruel. It's strange to see some people take such delight in blaming/shaming the families. If they broke the law in some way LE will handle it. Otherwise, stfu.
|by Anonymous||reply 230||03/02/2017|
R170 and R171. It is true that LE hasn't confirmed condition of the bodies. Please remember how small this area is; people ALL know each other including the police. My father lives 30 minutes away and has a good friend who is retired from the Delphi police force. He was called in to help with the search for the bodies. He told my father (in a face to face conversation) that the girl's bodies were terribly "mutilated" (his word), sexually assulted and throats slit. He also said they have most of the attack on one of the girl's phone. I wasn't clear if he meant the phone itself or the iCloud and if it was video, audio or both. He said even the older veteran cops were shaken to the core especially by the recording. Finally, he said they really thought the guy they arrested (and later released) at the factory in Kokomo was the one they were looking for. Turns out, he was out of state with his family and was able to present solid proof. He also voluntarily gave them DNA. I have no idea what if anything came from said DNA but they no longer think he's a suspect. There were open caskets at the funeral but both girls had scarfs wrapped around their neck. R219. I believe the FBI is involved largely due to the wealth of information on the phone (iCloud?) and are better able to analyze it than the state police (more advanced techniques, experience, etc.) The brutal nature of the killing and the sexual assaults on minors may also be a factor. The state police are still doing most of the actual investigation.
|by Anonymous||reply 231||03/02/2017|
Thanks for posting R231. Do you happen to know if both girls were sexually assaulted or just one? And was there any sign that one or both of the girls were bound/gagged? Because I'm just wondering how he managed to keep both girls under control...how one girl didn't run while he was assaulting the other, unless they were restrained or there were 2 or more attackers. And do they have DNA from the murderer do you know?
It was a clear, crisp day the day that this all happened, I imagine voices would carry. There were other people at the park that day. If there was evidence on the audio recording, such as screaming or crying or whatever, I can't believe nobody saw or at least heard something. I really hope he/they are caught soon.
|by Anonymous||reply 232||03/02/2017|
From a Reddit thread:
[quote]Actually recent. There were these two girls a few towns from me walking on a hiking trail that went missing. Long story short, they found them dead a day later, really fucked up details to the crime. Anyway, one of the girls managed to snap a single blurry picture of someone right before it happened, and then a few second audio clip of a stoic voice saying, "down the hill." It's not creepy in the Blair Witch sense most found footage stuff is going to be, but that shit is haunting. Even more so for me given a guy they brought in for questioning lives down the street from me, and after hearing about his past I think he did it. But when word spread about them taking him in, the police moved really quickly to issue a press release saying no arrests had been made, and loose word is that they don't have anywhere near the evidence to convict.
|by Anonymous||reply 233||03/03/2017|
R231, is it not usual and customary to keep details obscured from the public while an investigation of this complexity is active?
The retired LEO knows not to discuss the details of an open investigation, and the fact that you came on here to confirm or deny what amounts to heresay, is extremely unhelpful.
There are VERY specific reasons why these types of details are kept away from the public.
Muriel should delete your post. Oh, and thanks for making the FBI's job that much harder today, dumb-ass.
|by Anonymous||reply 234||03/03/2017|
r232, LE did say they have DNA and they are testing it (the quick way versus the long, drawn out process). They didn't say how they got the DNA (cup, body fluids, etc).
r234, I don't understand why some of this info should be kept away from the public? Most people thought the suspect used a gun to get the girls to go where he wanted. From r231 's description, he used a knife. LE should be able to say what type of knife it was and this might help link the suspect, especially if it's a unique knife (remember when the police told the public the specific type of cigarette butt that was left at the crime scene of those girls that were murdered in Napa, CA and it triggered the lone survivor to tell the police who she knew a guy that smoked those cigarettes. Turned out to be the killer).
|by Anonymous||reply 235||03/03/2017|
I don't believe R231 for a second. After being told by multiple people on this thread that they are probably harming the investigation, they come back with even more gruesome details to make things worse -- and they know enough to change their IP to avoid being ignored.
That's a troll right there. That's not someone who just happens to be a local with friends in law enforcement who are so stupid that they would harm the investigation.
|by Anonymous||reply 236||03/03/2017|
Um so one girl stood around recording while her friend was stripped, raped, murdered, mutiliated, and then the camera girl was attacked too? Yeah that makes perfect sense.
|by Anonymous||reply 237||03/03/2017|
A reporter took some pictures of the crime scene the day of the murders or the next day and said that he could still see "girls clothing" .
|by Anonymous||reply 238||03/03/2017|
They obviously had an open casket, as one of the girls' friend posted about it.:
i hugged abbys mother and shes so loving. and i love her so much and ive only met her yesterday and that was it. but she didnt cry at all. shes very strong. and abigail your sister, shes hanging in there. but you and abby looked so peaceful up there. and you girls were wearing a lot of makeup. even though you both are beautiful princesses!😻😭i
|by Anonymous||reply 239||03/03/2017|
What a dangerous looking bridge (trestle).
|by Anonymous||reply 240||03/03/2017|
Has the FBI released a profile on the suspect?
|by Anonymous||reply 241||03/03/2017|
He killed them with their love
|by Anonymous||reply 242||03/03/2017|
R242 is high as fuck right now. Never mind him.
|by Anonymous||reply 243||03/03/2017|
[Quote][R157] that shit does not happen. It was made up by conservatives in the late '80s to demonstrate what pot and heavy metal could lead to. People commit sick, heinous, disgusting murders, but the kind of thing you're talking about just doesn't happen.
Ok, if you say so...
|by Anonymous||reply 244||03/04/2017|
What r236 said. And they do it here because "that other site" won't allow it.
|by Anonymous||reply 245||03/04/2017|
Any new developments regarding this? I checked the news feed, and haven't seen any updates.
I usually am pretty removed from most of these things. I have taught myself to be, because if not, I wouldn't want to get out of bed every morning. However, this one right here has slowly seeped under my skin.
I've spent a few minutes here and there, looking at photographs of these two kids. Early teens, yes, but they may as well have been nine year olds. They were still interested in playing in nature, and exploring their surroundings, rather than spending time cooped up in their rooms, on social media 24/7, like many teens currently. And they still looked like little girls. Yes, puberty was obviously happening, but these girls just looked like kids.
I can only imagine how these LEOs must feel in regards to this case. This is the type of thing that one does not shake off very easily. Personally, I think that I would be obsessed with finding the fucking monster who did this.
|by Anonymous||reply 246||03/05/2017|
I'm taking this case to my friend that is a psychic and has worked with LE in the past. She helps the police for free, if they are open to her help. She, like most of the country, has not heard about this case. It doesn't seem like LE is any closer to catching this monster. I wish they would release more of the video of the creep on the bridge. He seems to have a slight weird walk on his right side from the 2 still pics. LE said look for someone that keeps his right hand in his pocket a lot.
|by Anonymous||reply 247||03/05/2017|
Wouldn't she just call you with the information she knows you want, given that she's psychic and all?
|by Anonymous||reply 248||03/05/2017|
Another woman was found dead less than 2 hours from the spot where these girls were killed. So far it's just being called "suspicious," and not necessarily homicide...but her car was abandoned still running. Very weird.
|by Anonymous||reply 249||03/05/2017|
These fucking cops/FBI need to alert the public if a serial killer is on the loose
|by Anonymous||reply 250||03/05/2017|
I am going to take her pics of everything and take notes- she's not familiar with the case and the more info I can show her, the more info she gets. She starts seeing things and people and talking fast and it's easier for her to have me record what she says, r248. Indiana LE might not even take her seriously. She's sent LE advance warnings of crimes that were going to happen but is usually ignored.
|by Anonymous||reply 251||03/05/2017|
Nothing new reported here locally this weekend.
|by Anonymous||reply 252||03/05/2017|
I believe that he will be caught. It took months before they nabbed the Karina Veterano killer, but he was nabbed.
The only way this guy will not be caught is if he leaves the country, or lives without stepping foot outside his home for the next ten years, or if he kills himself.
As long as there are available funds and human resources available for this case, this mother fucker will be found.
My biggest fear is that some abused wife or parent knows who this guy is. If so, this person must be terrified because this man will kill them before they get a chance to go to the authorities, if he hasn't done so already.
|by Anonymous||reply 253||03/05/2017|
Some are wondering ig there is a link between a bank that was robbed a few days before the murder (approx 3 hours away) and the suspect. There's a few pics of the bank robber and some have said he looks similar.
|by Anonymous||reply 254||03/07/2017|
R254, yeah, I just don't see it. Sure, they look similar, but the mind set of a bank robber is very different than one of a child killer.
I'm not saying that it is impossible that they are not one in the same, however, it is highly unlikely -UNLESS- this man was burying the cash in this park that the girls were hiking in, and he believed that there was a possibility that they may have seen him doing so.
|by Anonymous||reply 255||03/07/2017|
That guy does look similar at R254...but then there are millions of people that look like that. I guess since he is in the area, it is a possibility, though.
|by Anonymous||reply 256||03/07/2017|
Who are these goddamn trolls infesting this site with satanic ritual bullshit and psychics crap? Is it fraus and conspiracy theorists googling the case and finding us?
|by Anonymous||reply 257||03/07/2017|
Probably, R257. It is the same thing when there are threads about certain celebrities.
|by Anonymous||reply 258||03/07/2017|
The woman missing R249 drowned while trying to save a dog in a sweater.
|by Anonymous||reply 259||03/07/2017|
Libby's family is scheduled to speak publicly on Thursday at 10:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time. No new crime details to be released as of press time.
|by Anonymous||reply 260||03/07/2017|
R259, that's pretty heartbreaking. Wow. This could have happened to anyone. I know I've rescued some animals in my lifetime.
|by Anonymous||reply 261||03/07/2017|
[R251], please come back here and let us know what your psychic friend says about this case. I, for one, am very interested in what she says, and I appreciate your posts!
Please ignore any of the trolls or hall monitors here who seem to become hysterical at any post that's not exactly like: "This case is so sad! But we have no idea what is *really* happening with it, as law enforcement have not issued any further official statements, so stop with all of your ridiculous speculations and lies!"
Bitches, even though this is a tragic case, we are here on DL to *speculate* and discuss elements of the case as we wish (and yes, even give our best guesses as to what might have happened!).
It *is* a true crime thread, but this is still an anonymous gossip site, so calm the fuck down. Free speech on DL for all!
Anyway, I've enjoyed reading everyone's posts on the case far; [R51], please do come back when you have an update!
|by Anonymous||reply 262||03/08/2017|
R259 what a fucking idiot
|by Anonymous||reply 263||03/08/2017|
R262 has stated her boundaries!
|by Anonymous||reply 264||03/08/2017|
Did 'Snapchat killer' murder two little girls in Iowa too? Police probe links between Delphi bridge killings and 2012 slaughter of two cousins out on their bikes
|by Anonymous||reply 265||03/08/2017|
it's likely not going to happen, but if I ever had kids I'd be the biggest helicopter parent ever; these stories break my heart.
|by Anonymous||reply 266||03/08/2017|
[quote]Free speech on DL for all!
No one's free speech rights are being violated, and no, you're not going to stop me from calling out trolls and mentally deranged looky-loos who want to post all sorts of inappropriate shit that could actually harm an investigation.
And if I want to tease you for being an idiot who believes in psychics, I will. Welcome to the Datalounge, bitch. Better get a helmet.
|by Anonymous||reply 267||03/08/2017|
I copied the two photos into Paint side by side. I think it could be the same man, with the hood behind the head, slouchy shoulders, tan and navy colors, bent down face with the same facial hair, the cap.
|by Anonymous||reply 268||03/08/2017|
Can you post, r268?
|by Anonymous||reply 269||03/08/2017|
r262, my friend just called. I had emailed her pics and was supposed to see her tomorrow. She said she kept getting the name "Abigail". (I just sent her pics but didn't include names). She said the killer has a common name and people would not in a million years expect him. Said he also goes by a nickname but his name is common. He's not a local. Said he has done this before. He's a sexual predator. She said he told family he was fishing. Said he used a weapon to force the girls to go where he wanted. He had a hunting knife and a gun. He killed the youngest one first. She didn't have time to thoroughly meditate on this but she is going to tonight and tomorrow and said she's sure she can get his name, occupation and where he's from.
|by Anonymous||reply 270||03/08/2017|
Wow, [R270], thank you! I really appreciate your posts and am grateful for the update!
Please continue to come back and share with us as the information from your friend continues to come in (at whatever pace it's coming to her). Great post!
|by Anonymous||reply 271||03/09/2017|
The only other thing that i remember my friend saying (she called and woke me up so I didn't take notes or tape it) is that the guy went home like business as usual, like it was a normal day for him. No guilt whatsoever.
|by Anonymous||reply 272||03/09/2017|
At the Press Conference today, the parents said they are coping the best they can.
LE officials said that all of the online rumors are hurting the investigation. No new details have been released.
The girls both favored their mothers a lot - and it's kind of a shock to see them after seeing the photos of the girls all these weeks.
|by Anonymous||reply 273||03/09/2017|
If they still have no idea who the POS killer is, why don't they release a longer audio clip or the live video to help get him IDed.
|by Anonymous||reply 274||03/09/2017|
I just spent 45 minutes with my psychic friend and it was beyond scary. I talked to her on the phone and at one point said "Did one of them fight back?" and we both heard a young girl say "Yep". My friend said it was the older one. She has A LOT to say so here we go: Killer has 2 dogs - one is a husky and the other a basset hound type dog with a white face and tan body. He sits in the dark and watches TV (he sits close to the TV) and pets the dogs and has watched the news about this case while petting these dogs, especially the husky. He takes them off leash a lot Said he has an injury to his right leg- possibly from a burn. It is a significant injury and his right leg is skinnier and atrophied. There's a military connection- most likely he was in the military or tried out for the military His face was in disguise in the pic- especially his nose. She kept saying his nose is not right. Look at the NOSE. He's a loner but does have family. He was rejected by women and the date has a significance He has killed in the past- 2 young girls, one was a light-haired girl on a bike and another girl that is wearing a bustier- she couldn't tell if the bustier girl was a prostitute or just a15 year old playing dress up. He's older than 30's and has a connection to Oklahoma. He was at a restaurant in the Delphi area and was looking at maps of the area and saw the park. He doesn't live there, tho. He goes to the same bar a lot and also plays lottery -particularly scratch offs There are 3 people that are going to recognize him- one is a woman in a white uniform, most likely a nurse. He went to this location on purpose and was super excited that his plan worked. He used duct tape on the girls so they would not scream. He kept the older one alive longer- into the pitch black and possibly the next day. She fought him and there is DNA. She said the younger one panicked but the older one was calm and trying to figure a way to get them both out of it. He made them walk ahead of him and he was behind them. The girls were just there to hang out and take pictures- not to meet anybody. He saw the older one take his picture but he didn't care because he was disguised. He moved the bodies from the crime scene to try and hide evidence- he's calculated. The leg injury is NOT a birth defect- it's an injury. He was wearing tennis shoes and not hiking shoes or boots. He goes into the same store where they know him a lot. He used a gun to make the girls go where he wanted but also had a knife. They were frightened of the gun. He likes to play chess. He has a Midwestern twang and likes to hunt and fish He was spying on the girls and popped out of nowhere He had a hunter's knife and an automatic gun. He has a white license plate he's a narcissist and feels sorry for himself He has long hair Number 13 is significant He was prepared- brought gun, knife, bag, duct tape, rope He's aware of all of the media attention and will let it die down until he does it again She said that Abigail has been communicating with her and told her that this sick fuck (my words, not hers) will be caught (and it's because of these 2 girls and all of the evidence they got-they saved future lives). Said Abigail's middle name starts with a "J" ( can anybody confirm this?) The killer's name also starts with a "J". She gave me the killer's name and middle name and nickname and a street that is important. I'm going to call the LE tomorrow with the info.
|by Anonymous||reply 275||03/09/2017|
Didn't the police come out after the bodies were found, and tell people there was no danger of this being a serial killer, or predator scenario? If they did, and if R231 is nonsense, then perhaps the meth thing is what it's about. Perhaps they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and saw someone who didn't want to be seen, or a couple of someones. And they were executed.
|by Anonymous||reply 276||03/09/2017|
Wow, what drivel!
|by Anonymous||reply 277||03/09/2017|
OK, my first theory is they were meeting another girl who lives in walking distance (say, within 3 miles) of the bridge. She'd been complaining about being abused by her father or another family member and they were going to help her and possibly help her run away. But this family member found her phone, set up the meeting as her and killed them to prevent the information getting out.
My next theory goes back to the idea upthread that the killer is a woman in disguise. It would explain the weird bulk of clothing if she was trying to hide her shape and the limp from shoes that don't fit correctly. No ideas on who she might be, though, or a motive.
I think the bridge is too far away from a big highway for it to have been any of the trucker serial killers.
It's possible he was a hitman hired to send a message to the meth biz family members.
I think it's peculiar they would include the girls' faces on the posters along with the pic of the killer, given that the girls were not abducted, not expected to ever be found alive. And if it was open casket, surely, they had the correctly identified bodies.
The big question is: how was the killer so sure he could get away with murdering two girls in a populated park in the middle of a sunny day without screams being heard or his being seen? It's not like these were long range sniper rifle hits. He tore into their bodies with a knife. It was messy. And slow. And happening in public.
|by Anonymous||reply 278||03/09/2017|
I think he was a local and knew the area well
|by Anonymous||reply 279||03/10/2017|
That is so sad about the woman and the little dog in a sweater. I would have done the same thing (and probably drowned too)
|by Anonymous||reply 280||03/10/2017|
I'm sorry, but some of you sound completely nuts. A woman disguised as a man? This killer is a man. JFC.
Here's the thing, I don't completely discount psychic abilities. I'm not sure at all how the whole thing works, but I do believe some people have these abilities from time to time. However, I don't believe that these abilities are usually highly developed, mostly, because we don't understand how to develop them. I will leave it at that. Scientific studies would have to be done for us to understand this, and I'm not sure how all of that would proceed. Perhaps a DL member who is a neuroscientist can chime in. I've not been aware of any of us on DL claiming this profession, but you never know.
All of the above being said, this is a case that is best solved by LEOs, including the FBI.
|by Anonymous||reply 281||03/10/2017|
My friend got the name Joseph Charles and said people call him Charlie.
|by Anonymous||reply 282||03/10/2017|
She also said "Mill Creek Road". No idea what that means or where it is
|by Anonymous||reply 283||03/10/2017|
Love you, [R275]! Thank you *so much* for the detailed update, and thank you and your friend for caring and dedicating so much time to this case (and to your DL post--I *know* from experience that that takes a lot of effort to type out!)
Obviously, I have no idea for sure what is true about this case, but so much of what you wrote/heard from your friend sounds *so* right on and completely plausible.
I hope that what you wrote is correct--because if it is--it means LE might have a chance of catching this guy soon--and for good.
Thank you again for all of the time you and your friend have put into this case. Like you both, I'm really hoping these girls get the justice they deserve, and that the evil psycho is stopped before he strikes yet again.
Please keep us in the loop in the coming days and weeks with updates from you and your friend--as much as is possible of course. Thank you again!
|by Anonymous||reply 284||03/10/2017|
It's not about identifying bodies, R278, it's about making sure people know WHAT this guy did, about humanizing his victims, to try to encourage those who would otherwise be wary of speaking out.
|by Anonymous||reply 285||03/10/2017|
r284 = performance art
|by Anonymous||reply 286||03/10/2017|
I'm inept, r269. But it's easy-peasy. "PrintScreen," add to "Paint," "Crop," "Save as." Repeat. Then add each from "Saved as" to "Paint" to see side-by-side.
If these photos are not of the same man, the guy in the store is one unlucky man, because he WILL be sought for questioning.
|by Anonymous||reply 287||03/10/2017|
"The big question is: how was the killer so sure he could get away with murdering two girls in a populated park in the middle of a sunny day without screams being heard or his being seen?"
THIS is the crux of the case. The visibility of the area was extremely good...a lot of trees but not the kind of dense shrubs and thickets that you sometimes see in wooded areas. The location where the girls' bodies were found could be seen from various places especially from the bridge. And there were several people at that park that day!
1) is or was a local who knows the area like the back of his hand who acted alone, and got extremely lucky that nobody happened upon the crime in progress, or:
2) is or was a local who had help or at the very least one or two lookouts.
I think that LE should look closely at Libby's sister and her peer group. What are the odds that one of Libby's sister's best friends just so happened to be at the park at the exact time that the girls were murdered...but didn't see the girls, or the suspect. Yet she was on the bridge within 30 minutes of the last time the girls were on the bridge. ??? Really ??? I wonder if that girl was acting as a lookout for whoever did this. I hate to think that but it has happened many times in the past. Anything is possible at this point. LE needs to dissect both girls' families/friends, especially Libby's.
Abby is the one that lives a few miles down the road to the park.
R285 is correct.
|by Anonymous||reply 288||03/10/2017|
My friend said that he used his phone to study the area and had mapped it out, so he knew where he could go. He had a map of the area and knew it prior to taking them down the hill. He also made them walk quite a distance. She also said the girls had walked to an area that nobody was around and he basically cornered them. He didn't know them and they didn't know him. And he's thrilled with himself.
She said that the dates are important. The 13th, especially. Not sure if it was his birthday or if it was a day related to the trauma he suffered on his leg. She also said the next day was Valentine's day, which was also important to him, as he was rejected by women a lot. She also said that the police do not want to release any more of the video or audio because it's just too horrifying.
Said he's in his 40's and has done this before and will do it again. Being that old, you wonder how many females he's harmed in the past. She said at least 2.
I respect those that do not believe in psychics and certainly don't want to try and convince people that some people. I will say I've known my friend for over 20 years and she has told me really detailed stuff about my life and she's been accurate about 95% of the time.
His dogs are very important to him.
|by Anonymous||reply 289||03/10/2017|
Someone put together a video of the setting
|by Anonymous||reply 290||03/10/2017|
R257, it's because they're not allowed to get this nutty at Websleuths, so they come here for the more relaxed rules.
|by Anonymous||reply 291||03/10/2017|
My friend said that suspect's name is Joseph (Joe) and that Charles (Charlie) may have something to do with the area that suspect parked in, like parking lot is named after this Charles.
r291, feel free to block my posts.
|by Anonymous||reply 292||03/10/2017|
I mentioned earlier that I don't completely discount psychic abilities. And I will repeat that I believe that most do not know how to channel such ability properly. I myself, have had dreams that turned out to be spot on, several times throughout my life. However, I had these dreams arbitrarily, I wasn't purposefully attempting to gather information. And I have no way of proving that these dreams came about as a result of psychic abilities, or because I had already formed certain outcome to certain situations in my subconscious mind. And yes, I realize that the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
Also, I think that if psychics were as consistently accurate as others claim, every law enforcement team in the country would have one on staff.
|by Anonymous||reply 293||03/10/2017|
R275, Abby's middle name did start with a J, but they never said what the name was in the obit. Her obituary states that she died on Feb 14 while Libby's (the older one who recorded it) death date is Feb 13, according to her obit. Lots of people noticed that at the time. It would appear that Abby, the younger, smaller one, is the one the killer kept alive longer if the dates of death are to be believed. They had the bodies taken to the best forensics lab in the state for autopsies (which is why results took a while to come back), so I would assume they determined accurately how long each girl had been dead.
|by Anonymous||reply 294||03/10/2017|
How do you disguise your nose and why?
|by Anonymous||reply 295||03/10/2017|
Thank you again, [R289]. I really appreciate your posts and your friend's perspective--and you sharing both with us. Please keep them coming (as you are both able) and ignore the naysayers (as they are equally as free to ignore you or I ). Thanks again.
|by Anonymous||reply 296||03/10/2017|
Down the hill
|by Anonymous||reply 297||03/11/2017|
Two less young fish in the world = ALWAYS a good thing!
|by Anonymous||reply 298||03/11/2017|
Edna, I've missed you and your frauish ways!
|by Anonymous||reply 299||03/11/2017|
Was there really no way for either girl to use their cell phone to actually *call* for help during the attack--and possibly save their lives in doing so?
I'm not putting any blame on them, as they were young, innocent girls; I'm just curious if they hypothetically *could* have called 911 and been rescued (if that was a scenario within the realm of possibility where they were located)?
Were they out of range with no signal where they were?
|by Anonymous||reply 300||03/11/2017|
There was signal, they were posting to Snapchat.
|by Anonymous||reply 301||03/11/2017|
R283 Lindsay piccone was found dead in Tyler state park. Mill creek road is right near there. Mill creek and neshaminy creek connect I believe - and the creek runs through the park.
I think they ruled Lindsay's death a suicide though. This happened last year in bucks county pa
|by Anonymous||reply 302||03/11/2017|
Some other stuff friend said - he trolls young girls' pictures on the internet (but not these girls).
He drives a larger vehicle. I asked her if he was a truck driver but she said she couldn't see specifically what he did but would look further. She did say later that she saw him using a CB radio - "Charlie'
As for the nose, she repeated several times about the nose not being normal, and his face being disguised (she specifically said nose is phony). She said "disguise on face" several times. She said the nose alone could get him.
As for the right leg, she said it's not a birth defect. he can walk on it. Was in a fire - military.
She did say that he went to a restaurant close to the area earlier that day. I know it's a long shot but maybe he paid with a credit card or maybe someone would remember someone that wasn't local eating by themselves.
She said he goes into a store where they know him a lot (in the area that he lives in). She sees him going to the same liquor store buying lottery tickets. He also goes to the same bar a lot. He drinks but is not a drunk.
She said he's a rural guy- likes to hunt, fish and take his 2 dogs off leash. An outdoorsy guy.
She said the white license plate will have significance.
The female with the white uniform that will recognize him works with him (nurse?)
|by Anonymous||reply 303||03/11/2017|
^ The CB radio part was "Charlie, over & out"
|by Anonymous||reply 304||03/11/2017|
Well r303 - Lindsay's body was found 2 months later - just her skeletal remains.
They are saying she committed suicide because of cyber bullying. Nothing else was ever released - not the person who bullied her - no info.
He car was left at the park, with her phone and wallet inside.
Mill Creek (off mill creek road) is a huge fishing spot.
I'm not saying there is any connection - but when the poster asked about mill creek road I couldn't help but think of Lindsay. Because she did die in a park in the fall. the body was discovered so late that only the skeletal remains were left. And the spot they found the body was a previously searched and active area. Very strange.
|by Anonymous||reply 305||03/11/2017|
This psychic is describing 99.9% of rural males
|by Anonymous||reply 306||03/11/2017|
Except this one has a serious (burn) injury to his right leg, r306.
|by Anonymous||reply 307||03/11/2017|
Someone has way too much time invested in this story. It's either the same nut posting about Casey Anthony or they both suffer the same personality disorder. Just non-stop posting about their latest obsession and playing armchair detective.
|by Anonymous||reply 308||03/11/2017|
r305, I'm going to send my friend a pic of Lindsey and see if she picks up anything. She said "Mill Creek Road" twice.
And r308, sorry (not sorry) that some of us want to do what we can to keep this story active so that a child rapist/killer is off the streets. Again, feel free to visit on of the other thousands of threads on DL.
|by Anonymous||reply 309||03/11/2017|
r309, okay but what are you as a 50-something straight white lady in flyover even doing on DL? Why don't you go back to WebSleuths where your lack of wit, humor and interest in anything interesting will be appreciated?
|by Anonymous||reply 310||03/11/2017|
R309, you are obviously not familiar with DL and stumbled here by accident. You are weirdly obsessed with this and it has nothing to do with taking a criminal off the streets. It's you wanting attention and affirmation for your "brilliant" sleuthing skills from behind your keyboard. Go back to Websleuths or a special FB page and quit coming here. A bit of discussion is interesting but this constant barrage of posts reveals a lack of a life and a weird obsession. It's one after another, after another.
|by Anonymous||reply 311||03/11/2017|
Oh, and the fact you only comment on this and ignore the other interesting threads is revealing.
|by Anonymous||reply 312||03/11/2017|
Hahaha, r310 = r311, ...I've been a DL member for several years and have posted on hundreds of other threads. Never once been to Websleuths or posted there. And your description of me is very off.
|by Anonymous||reply 313||03/11/2017|
Whatever you say frau. If you are put on "ignore" it shows nothing except post after post of this one thread. Now you could obviously have cleared your cookies but for the past several days, no comments except this one subject. Very, very odd. Not to mention the obsessive need to respond to each and every comment directed towards you and the "ha, ha" childish shit. Very frauish or immature. Very, very poo-ey.
|by Anonymous||reply 314||03/11/2017|
R313 You mean you post on hundreds of other crime threads. When you started on about your psychic friend I recognized you from the pastor davey( I think that was his name) threads. You just jump from crime thread to crime thread.
|by Anonymous||reply 315||03/11/2017|
What part is off? That you're in your 50s? Live in flyover? Are a straight woman? Are weirdly enthralled with gruesome murders as a form of entertainment? What brought you to the DL?
|by Anonymous||reply 316||03/11/2017|
Sorry but I have to agree that the posts about the psychic are getting a bit ridiculous. One or two posts is fine, spamming the thread with increasingly embellished details is distracting and tiresome. Ever notice that psychics can provide the most trivial details about a suspect but never can provide any important information such as a name, address, social security number, place of employment, etc...
Anyways, my take on the "Libby is a hero" thing: after watching the Press Conference during which the "down the hill" voice snippet was released, I got the feeling that LE is realizing that they really fucked up by calling off the search that night. I think that Libby's "heroic efforts" might have been a bit exaggerated in order to compensate and make them "heroes" instead of "victims of a horrible murder."
The still images that LE released were taken from video that Libby took with her phone. We don't know if the audio snippet came from that same video, or if there were two separate videos. How could the man NOT have seen Libby's phone as he walked towards them? Why did he not just take it from her while on the bridge and toss it over? I think it's because at that point, he did not present himself as a threat, and the girls did not perceive him as one. I think that they did not realize he was a danger until later; at that point, Libby may have intentionally started recording (voice snippet) or she may have just accidentally hit the record on her phone, we just don't know. But yeah, seeing as she was able to manipulate her phone to record him (voice) then why not try to call 911 or her gf or someone? We will likely never know.
As for "down the hill", most assume he is directing them to walk down a hill. We just don't know that! He might have been giving them directions, or explaining where something is, etc. People assume too much about this case. LE is partly to blame for this.
|by Anonymous||reply 317||03/11/2017|
Enough with psykick? Well, fuck you, a gal's gotta eat!
|by Anonymous||reply 318||03/11/2017|
That is what I think - initially they did not realize how much of a threat he was. He looks like 100% of rural/small town males.
Did I read it here or elsewhere that the girls were listed as dying on separate dates (one a day later)? Is that correct? And if not a typo, what does that mean?
|by Anonymous||reply 319||03/11/2017|
Maybe the one who died the next day was trying to use her phone but got no signal way down the hill, might be how they kn
|by Anonymous||reply 320||03/11/2017|
*how they know she survived for some time.
|by Anonymous||reply 321||03/11/2017|
R319 There is a difference between the day that someone is pronounced dead, and the day that someone actually dies. For example, a person dies of a sudden heart attack while at home. But is not discovered until days later. The person would be pronounced dead there at the scene on the day they were DISCOVERED. If there is an autopsy, it will then be revealed that the person actually died several days earlier. Both the day pronounced dead and the date of actual death are both legal and it would be up to the person's family to determine which date to use. This is probably what happened with Libby & Abby, one family used the date of actual death (13th) and one used the date they were pronounced dead (14th). I highly doubt they died on different days.
|by Anonymous||reply 322||03/11/2017|
That's ridiculous r322.
|by Anonymous||reply 323||03/11/2017|
What is ridiculous R323?
|by Anonymous||reply 324||03/11/2017|
My psychic is a part time publicist and she says this is all about the Twin Peak reboot. I assume she speaks with considerable authority.
|by Anonymous||reply 325||03/11/2017|
Wow so we have two trolls creepily invested in this story?
|by Anonymous||reply 326||03/11/2017|
This is what bored frauen in need of attention do to an investigation...
|by Anonymous||reply 327||03/11/2017|
Well, we definitely have one troll that is invested in those that are invested in this story. You might want to try and post at different times to make it appear as though there are more of you, r326 = r327. I have a really good idea of who you are. "Die in a grease fire!" (*wink* * wink*).
|by Anonymous||reply 328||03/11/2017|
"I think that Libby's "heroic efforts" might have been a bit exaggerated"
While I agree that LE shouldn't have called off the search on the first night, making this statement about a 14 year old that was raped and murdered is pathetic.
|by Anonymous||reply 329||03/11/2017|
I agree. The psychic frau is just too much.
I used to be friends with a frau who constantly ran to psychics, trying to divine what was coming up next, instead of taking responsibility for her selfish, shitty behavior and life choices that always lead to her being hurt or disappointed in by others.
This frau has spent thousands and thousands of dollars, seeking out psychic counsel. I spoke to a mutual friend the other day, who told me that this frau was still doing the same shit, well into her 40s.
What a fucking whacky cunt. I'm pleased that I cut her off years ago.
|by Anonymous||reply 330||03/11/2017|
Oh fuck off R329, you know what I meant! Fuck off back to the sunshine & roses Websloths site where your (extremely large lard) ass belongs. Sorry I don't candy-coat everything, if you can't handle that then get off the fucking thread!
|by Anonymous||reply 331||03/11/2017|
I wish we had some sort of obscure gay trivia quiz that had to be passed before people could post here.
|by Anonymous||reply 332||03/11/2017|
r330 = the troll that is obsessed with anyone that has an interest in this case and has stalked the fuck out of this thread daily to throw a pissy fit because he thinks we're "fraus" and have invaded his bath tub. Get a fucking life.
|by Anonymous||reply 333||03/11/2017|
r331, if I can't handle it? Pot, it's the kettle.
|by Anonymous||reply 334||03/11/2017|
R333, the fact that you believe in all kinds of dribble offered to you by a self proclaimed psychic, tells me all I need to know about you. And I'm not even psychic. Imagine that!
|by Anonymous||reply 335||03/11/2017|
So did the land owner do it or what
|by Anonymous||reply 336||03/12/2017|
[quote] Both the day pronounced dead and the date of actual death are both legal and it would be up to the person's family to determine which date to use.
That's gibberish. Legal for what? Death certificates have lines for both date of death and date discovered (with the option of using "approx" if date of death can't be definitively determined) -- there are lots of examples online if you want to look for yourself.
If you mean it's legal for the parents to use either the 13th or the 14th in the obituary, of course it is, they're just newspaper announcements and can say whatever the people want them to say, within reason and depending on what the paper itself will print.
But if you mean the parents can go to court and say hey, the medical examiner determined she died on the 13th but we want to change it to the 14th, they'd have to provide legal reason to do so.
It may have been a typo but if so, the paper would have run a correction, I'd think. Unfortunately I think it means the girl died after midnight on the 13th and they were able to determine that with certainty.
|by Anonymous||reply 337||03/12/2017|
In the photos of the suspect, is he wearing a brown hood in both photos, or is in one photo it's a hood, and the other photo a cap or hair?
|by Anonymous||reply 338||03/12/2017|
r338, It's the same photo.
|by Anonymous||reply 339||03/12/2017|
looks like he has a hat on under the hood in the 2nd pic and just the hat in the 1st one. How cold was it that day?
|by Anonymous||reply 340||03/12/2017|
there are two photos
|by Anonymous||reply 341||03/12/2017|
Did you see this clip?
|by Anonymous||reply 342||03/12/2017|
r341, thanks so much for reposting the photos at r338; that was super necessary.
|by Anonymous||reply 343||03/12/2017|
It makes it clear that the photos are different, R343. One was cropped at R338.
|by Anonymous||reply 344||03/12/2017|
Right, which anyone with eyes could figure out.
|by Anonymous||reply 345||03/12/2017|
you sound like a dumb websleuths person R 343/R345
|by Anonymous||reply 346||03/12/2017|
Nope, been a Datalounger since '03 and I'm fucking sick of you morons infesting this place.
|by Anonymous||reply 347||03/12/2017|
There are wesleuthers on this topic, but I am not one of them. Been a DLer longer than you.
|by Anonymous||reply 348||03/12/2017|
Are the Websleuth trolls already up and trolling on a Sunday? Jesus H. Christ!
|by Anonymous||reply 349||03/12/2017|
"That's gibberish. Legal for what? Death certificates have lines for both date of death and date discovered (with the option of using "approx" if date of death can't be definitively determined) -- there are lots of examples online if you want to look for yourself."
That's exactly what I said you fucking retard! I don't need to look online for anything hon, thanks. Either date is appropriate, it is up to the family which date to use in the obituary WHICH IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT.
Fuck, some of you have serious reading comprehension problems.
|by Anonymous||reply 350||03/12/2017|
And again, it is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that the girls died on different days. Not impossible, but extremely unlikely.
|by Anonymous||reply 351||03/12/2017|
Locals are hoping to drum up interest online to get Beyonce to perform as a sort of fundraising tribute. No word from Beyonce's camp yet
|by Anonymous||reply 352||03/12/2017|
Fundraising for what exactly R352? Serious question. Who are the "locals" doing this? Let me guess... Libby's family.
|by Anonymous||reply 353||03/12/2017|
What??? Beyoncé? Maybe the psychic can open for her.
You fraus are out of control today. Time to put away the white zinfindel, and get ready to hit the hay, so that you can get your fat asses to the office tomorrow morning.
|by Anonymous||reply 354||03/12/2017|
I think the funds are intended to help support the families, cover burial costs, possibly whatever is left over will go towards a reward
|by Anonymous||reply 355||03/12/2017|
Excuse me, missing, I have two girls of my own.
|by Anonymous||reply 356||03/12/2017|
There are no offices in the countryside. Just meth, drunk husbands, trucks and websleuths
|by Anonymous||reply 357||03/12/2017|
I'm a bit late to this party. Is that an outline of a gun I see in the jacket of the suspect in the above posted photos? Suspect's right side. Anyone else see it?
|by Anonymous||reply 358||03/12/2017|
And just to refresh:
|by Anonymous||reply 359||03/12/2017|
[quote]That's exactly what I said you fucking retard!
No, what you said was gibberish, a huge paragraph of nothing written as though you were either struggling to express your thoughts or in love with your own voice.
And since you're obviously so clueless that you can't even figure out how to quote someone, you might want to dial back calling others "retards."
|by Anonymous||reply 360||03/12/2017|
Camo baseball cap is what I see, R338. Many men wear them in this part of the country.
|by Anonymous||reply 361||03/12/2017|
[quote] That's exactly what I said you fucking retard! Fuck, some of you have serious reading comprehension problems.
Okay, so you've been on this thread both pretending to be a local and reporting what locals have said, then asking someone else who claims to be a local for details. You've been using Websleuths slang but also told someone to "fuck off back to Websleuths." You praised the posting of some random's personal information while in a later post criticizing it. You don't know how to quote but you claim to be a DL regular.
You're really unhinged, and I suspect you're trying to sockpuppet but don't know how.
|by Anonymous||reply 362||03/13/2017|
r362, you've been on this post hourly for the last week. You try and pretend to be 3 different people, all saying the same thing and all agreeing with each other. You feel that anyone that has an interest in this case is a "frau" and undeserving of being on DL. Unless you're the fucking murderer, why do you waste your time on this thread? You sound a lot like the anti-LVP troll that gets obsessed with something and then will dig your talons in and just stink up a thread because you can't take someone having an opposing view.
|by Anonymous||reply 363||03/13/2017|
So is it one or two websleuth fraus obsessing and pretending to be DL'ers?
|by Anonymous||reply 364||03/13/2017|
I think there are two, R364. There are two crazy ones on this thread. One that seems websleuthian and another that is crazed against it.
|by Anonymous||reply 365||03/13/2017|
With the suspect's black hair, could he be Hispanic or Native American?
|by Anonymous||reply 366||03/15/2017|
Who says he has black hair? You can't see any hair in that photo
|by Anonymous||reply 367||03/15/2017|
I see straight black hair and a black/greyish goatee.
|by Anonymous||reply 368||03/15/2017|
Greyish mustache or goatee yes, but no black hair. That is a shadow from the hood.
|by Anonymous||reply 369||03/15/2017|
I enhanced it with some programs I have and def straight black hair.
|by Anonymous||reply 370||03/15/2017|
I think it's a websleuths troll too.i posted upthread answering her about mill creek road and she had nothing to say in return. Just odd. She just likes to hear herself talk.
I don't know but going to psychics over a case, being a local etc... and posting this drivel here - she just wants attention
|by Anonymous||reply 371||03/15/2017|
I don't think it is hair. It is shadow from the hood. That guy would have short hair. He looks like a hick local.
|by Anonymous||reply 372||03/15/2017|
The hair in the enhanced photo is longer. There is a small gap between the hood and the hair.
|by Anonymous||reply 373||03/15/2017|
Some people think he has light brown hair because they think the hat is hair. It is hard to see from those photos even when they are enlarged.
|by Anonymous||reply 374||03/15/2017|
I could be wrong. From what I saw, he had longer straight hair that was def black. There is a small gap between the hood/hat and his hair. LE obviously has this info so really wonder why they don't release it. I'm sure their technology is a lot better than mine.
|by Anonymous||reply 375||03/15/2017|
R375, would you be kind enough to share the photo please? Make sure to clear it from all meta data, in case the suspect is following the fraus from Websleuths on to DL. Lol!!
|by Anonymous||reply 376||03/15/2017|
Good lord, I see by missing comments that the pathetic Websleuth frauen are still going on about this.
|by Anonymous||reply 377||03/15/2017|
Apparently they have still heard no word from Beyonce's people and are starting to get frustrated with her management. She just made an appearance at a dance troupe performance so it is not like she is bedridden. Hoping Bey comes through for the girls 🕯
|by Anonymous||reply 378||03/15/2017|
So a deranged frau chased a sweater-wearing dog into a river, where they both drowned. Nice.
|by Anonymous||reply 379||03/15/2017|
They really shouldn't discount the cult angle- just saying.
|by Anonymous||reply 380||03/15/2017|
Local news reports that a search warrant has been issued for the home on the property where the girls were found. They are saying the owner is not a suspect at this time.
They have been searching in house since about noon.
|by Anonymous||reply 381||03/17/2017|
Here's a link, not sure why r381 didn't include it.
Interesting that the property owner is already in jail for DUI.
|by Anonymous||reply 382||03/17/2017|
Also interesting that the property owner, when interviewed on TV for the first time after the murders, was wearing a cap that looks just like the one in the suspect photograph. Maybe not the guy, but connected.
|by Anonymous||reply 383||03/17/2017|
If it was the property ow re, he could have told them they were in trouble for trespassing. I betcha he did it
|by Anonymous||reply 384||03/17/2017|
The property owner said he was in Lafayette buying tropical fish until 6:30 that evening. Maybe LE thinks the murderer took one or both of the girls there and then dumped their bodies in the woods when he left.
|by Anonymous||reply 385||03/18/2017|
My friend saw a few more things, for anyone interested. She said the guy's a bachelor and is in charge of other men. Doesn't work much with women. Military. High cheek bones. Not Hispanic but does have some Native American. She said he is clean. His house is not dirty or dumpy. He takes his dogs on walks at night off leash. She saw a brown house with trees on the left and an open driveway. Michigan, Chicago. She said he is not going to do anything for awhile but is very cocky that he's gotten away with it. And she said "Mill Cree Road" was the site of another murder, although she wasn't sure if it was him.
|by Anonymous||reply 386||03/18/2017|
My friend says that he isn't fat but is "doughy" and perhaps Native American. Very masculine, take charge personality. She says we should be looking for a soft butch Sioux chief.
|by Anonymous||reply 387||03/18/2017|
He was even dressed like the guy in the photo, with cap, hood inside jacket, and hands in his pockets in one of the clips. Same outfit in other clips, then in the last clip before the arrest he finally took the hat and outfit off..He made some odd comments in the TV clips, too. Either him or someone he knows.
I don't think it was over trespassing because one of the girls took a photo of him on the bridge, not his property. Like he was acting menacing on the bridge. Then the "go down the hill" sounds like he is directing them (off the bridge?)
|by Anonymous||reply 388||03/18/2017|
The property owner is 77. Isn't that way too old for the creep in the picture?
|by Anonymous||reply 389||03/18/2017|
Sorry, forgot to add that he made them walk across the stream because he didn't want to leave tracks. He knew dogs would eventually be involved and he was trying to cover his tracks.
|by Anonymous||reply 390||03/18/2017|
I don't know, R389. I thought the guy in the photo looked 50-60. It's really hard to tell with that photo. If it is a younger guy maybe he helped or covered up. Don't know.
|by Anonymous||reply 391||03/18/2017|
"The property owner is 77. Isn't that way too old for the creep in the picture?"
Yes. Bridge Guy looks much younger and has a plump, round face.
I can't believe anyone honestly thinks that a 77-year-old man who has lived on this property for 53 years just one day decided to go out and kill two teenage girls, then leave the bodies on his own land. Oh, and he's visually impaired, but he just decided to not wear his glasses that day when he walked across a very high, dangerous, rickety bridge. And then he gave an interview to every Tom, Dick, and Harry who asked for one even though he knew a voice recording was available for comparison.
Look, all WE have is three words on audio and two still photos. Law enforcement has the entire audio and the entire video. If the killer was Property Owner, they would already know that and he would already be charged. They are holding him on a VoP charge for his own protection and searching his house to play mind games with Bridge Guy. They want Bridge Guy to be completely convinced that Property Owner is their main suspect.
|by Anonymous||reply 392||03/18/2017|
Well, your psychic friend is wrong, r387. My psychic friend told me that he is indeed "doughy," but that isn't what sets him apart from the crowd. Rather, it is his stark white skin and lack of any body hair.
My psychic friend also said that he has a pot belly that he presents to the poking, prodding fingers of strangers. Sweet Jesus, what is wrong with men these days?!?! I thank the Lord daily for blessing me with my DH.
My psychic friend even told me his name! It's Poppins (as in MARY!) Fraîche (as in Crème). Sounds like a d*mn foreigner to me.
|by Anonymous||reply 393||03/18/2017|
Ron Logan's (property owner's) ex-wife just posted on Facebook and boy is she pissed! Says that both law enforcement and Logan's lawyer have TIME-STAMPED photos proving that he was nowhere near the crime scene. Says the police are just using an old man and ruining his life because they got NOTHING. Calls out all the friends and neighbors who will not come to his defense on social media. Wow!
|by Anonymous||reply 394||03/18/2017|
This fugly mangy mutt was busted nearby on unrelated kiddie porn charges. The released pics of the perp on the bridge are hard to make out but I looked at them for a while, this butt-ugly face looks just like what I saw.
|by Anonymous||reply 395||03/19/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 396||03/19/2017|
Why would the property manager dump the bodies on his own land?
|by Anonymous||reply 397||03/19/2017|
Have they checked the basement of this fine upstanding citizen?
|by Anonymous||reply 398||03/20/2017|
Yes, r85, the girls and their families should have made exactly that decision. Young girls, lone male stranger, remote area---never a good scenario.
To think otherwise, to argue that the opposite of being prudent is to be a shut-in, is not only absurd on its face, but has been proven to be fatal.
|by Anonymous||reply 399||03/20/2017|
The guy in r396's pic looks like he's got a freshly shaved head just shaved his head and he's in the right age range but he was arrested 5 days ago. Wouldn't they be able to match DNA in that time period?
And the Amber Alert guy in r398 is supposedly only 50? He looks 80.
|by Anonymous||reply 400||03/20/2017|
"Why would the property manager dump the bodies on his own land?"
|by Anonymous||reply 401||03/20/2017|
If you are stupid enough to kill people, you are stupid enough to dump them anywhere. It could be him, or not. They all wear hoodies, caps, and have facial hair. The voice sounds like him on the clip.
|by Anonymous||reply 402||03/20/2017|
Anyone who thinks this is a 77-year-old man is either visually impaired himself or very stupid. This person is not 77. This person does not have a bushy white mustache. This person does not wear glasses. This person is not Ron Logan.
As for the voice, the FBI has been working on this for over a month. They have the full audio and they know how to match voices. If that was a recording of Ron Logan, he would be charged with murder by now.
|by Anonymous||reply 403||03/20/2017|
This has devolved into the whackiest thread ever. I don't know what the fuck is going on with some of you, but I am grateful you cunts never actually pursued a career in law enforcement.
|by Anonymous||reply 404||03/20/2017|
Fuck you, r404.
|by Anonymous||reply 405||03/20/2017|
r403 the technology is controversial and may not even be admissible (I can't remember). They'd need other evidence, particularly good DNA.
r400 it's not CSI. Depending on how backed up the lab is, results can take time, assuming they even have them.
|by Anonymous||reply 406||03/20/2017|
R393 made me pee my pants.
|by Anonymous||reply 407||03/20/2017|
r407 has a really weak bladder.
|by Anonymous||reply 408||03/21/2017|
Good god almighty. Is the websleuth frau still posting here?
|by Anonymous||reply 409||03/21/2017|
R409 How many times is your pathetic, sorry ass going to come into this thread and post the same stupid post? Fuck off already!
|by Anonymous||reply 410||03/21/2017|
Ok, much better now that I've blocked the frau-obsessed cunt.
R231, has your father heard anything more about what's going on in the case?
|by Anonymous||reply 411||03/21/2017|
My psychic friend says it was Hollywood Satanists and they killed Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds as well. These Hollywood Satanists criss-cross the country, looking for victims. Then they sacrifice the victims to Satan so that the Satanists can get good roles in movies.
I know -- it sounds crazy. But my psychic friend says it's been happening for at least 50 years.
|by Anonymous||reply 412||03/21/2017|
My psychic friend said r412 is going to die in a grease fire and nobody is going to show up for the funeral. Get the fuck off this thread, you miserable, lonely eldergay.
|by Anonymous||reply 413||03/21/2017|
There is a local guy that went to jail for the rape of an eleven year old girl while armed with a knife. The victim survived but had suffered cuts to her throat and other body parts. He lives/works nearby and apparently has not missed a day at work in 3 years at the Chrysler Auto plant where he works. Apparently he phoned in sick and was away from February 12 to Feb 15-th. He's been given a DNA test but hasn't been arrested.
|by Anonymous||reply 414||03/21/2017|
R414 his co-workers have said that he normally has off Sunday night through Tuesday afternoon, that's his normal shift rotation. He didn't call in sick. And he was visiting family during that time and apparently has a solid alibi. So unless they are lying, it is unlikely him. He also volunteered his DNA sample. I don't think he's the guy.
|by Anonymous||reply 415||03/21/2017|
What about the property owner's son?
|by Anonymous||reply 416||03/21/2017|
Supposedly he's tall and thin, not fitting the body shape of Bridge Guy, r416. But he sure has kept out of sight, so who knows?
|by Anonymous||reply 417||03/21/2017|
r415 What THE FUCK is a scumbag who violently raped a child doing outside prison walls in the first fucking place?!?!
|by Anonymous||reply 418||03/21/2017|
It really is sickening that a man could kidnap, torture, and sexually assault a child and EVER get out. But as far as Libby and Abby... I don't think he did it.
|by Anonymous||reply 419||03/21/2017|
The property owner sounds like the voice in the "down the hill " clip. He also made a lot of strange remarks in TV interviews such saying it happened in his house.
|by Anonymous||reply 420||03/21/2017|
R418, I agree.
People who kidnap, torture, and rape children should NEVER get out of prison. This fucker did it twice, and he's walking free? If you kidnap and rape a child, or an adult, for that matter, you should never again see the light of day.
How did this motherfucker get out?
|by Anonymous||reply 421||03/21/2017|
Well here's the newest rumor. LE did have the suspects DNA from the crime scene, and they know who it is. And it's someone who has done something like this before, and LE/feds know that people are gonna go apeshit knowing that this guy was released to do it again. Hence, all the secrecy in this case. Now they are staging a huge cover up by trying to pin it on the old man.
Like I said, just the new rumor going around....
|by Anonymous||reply 422||03/21/2017|
R422, was that someone already mentioned in this thread?
|by Anonymous||reply 423||03/21/2017|
Do you mean the "someone" meaning the suspect? Nobody has said who the suspect is, just that LE knows and are shitting their pants how to handle it. Personally I'm not believing this rumor, at least not yet. But this case is so weird, that could change....I change my mind every day.
|by Anonymous||reply 424||03/21/2017|
Both fugs. Why bother?
|by Anonymous||reply 425||03/22/2017|
R422. Is "psychic" named Altay and is your name Tija, by any chance?
|by Anonymous||reply 426||03/22/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 427||03/22/2017|
This was from an article the day the girls went missing. The early investigators to this case should be fired.
"Based on information learned from friends and family members, Leazenby said investigators do not suspect foul play. They have no information to believe the girls are in any kind of danger, other than being exposed to outside elements.
Leazenby said investigators looked into having an Amber Alert issued. They were informed this event does not meet the criteria set by state guidelines to have an alert issued."
|by Anonymous||reply 428||03/23/2017|
This was from 2014. Anyone know what this means?
Feb. 21, 11:49 p.m. - Felony OWI, SR25 (HHH) at SR218, Delphi. Ronald Logan, 74, Delphi, was arrested. Reserve Deputy Jay Dee Cree investigated.
|by Anonymous||reply 429||03/24/2017|
Nebermind. It's a DUI...
Indiana prohibits operating a vehicle while intoxicated (OWI), also known as driving while intoxicated (DWI) or driving under the influence (DUI). The OWI laws make it illegal to drive any vehicles while using alcohol or drugs. ... Below is a chart with the pertinent details of Indiana's OWI laws.
|by Anonymous||reply 430||03/24/2017|
Is this the property owner? if so, he looks totally different last year.
|by Anonymous||reply 431||03/24/2017|
R422/423, puleeze. If they knew who it was they would arrest him. LE doesn't give a shit about that. In fact, they would love it to be a repeat offender. More ammo for their argument to lock them up and throw away the key.
Sex offenders who molest and torture children are pretty much impossible to rehabilitate. Teenagers, however, are not children so the paraphilia has a different psychology.
|by Anonymous||reply 432||03/24/2017|
[quote]What THE FUCK is a scumbag who violently raped a child doing outside prison walls in the first fucking place?!?!
Some of the worst predators do quite well in prison because they don't have to deal with victims while they're incarcerated. Prisons only care that prisoners behave themselves and don't cause problems for prison officials.
|by Anonymous||reply 433||03/25/2017|
Profile of sadistic rapist killer, using a sample of 30:
Most are white males
Fewer than one-half were educated beyond high school.
One-half used alcohol or other drugs
One-third served in the Armed Forces.
Forty-three percent were married at the time of the offense.
Forty-three percent of the men participated in homosexual activity as adults, 20 percent engaged in cross-dressing, and 20 percent committed other sexual offenses, such as peeping, obscene phone calls, and indecent exposure
77 percent of the offenders used sexual bondage on their victims, often tying them with elaborate and excessive materials, using neat and symmetrical bindings, and restraining them in a variety of positions.
60 percent held their victims in captivity for more than 24 hours.
The most common sexual activity was anal rape, followed in frequency by forced fellatio, vaginal rape, and foreign object penetration.
Sixty percent of the offenders beat their victims. Each of the sexual sadists studied intentionally tortured their victims. Each of the sexual sadists studied also inflicted psychological suffering on their victims.
Many demonstrate cunning and methodical planning. The capture of the victim, the selection and preparation of equipment, and the methodical elicitation of suffering often reflect meticulous attention to detail. Almost invariably, the victims were taken to a location selected in advance that offered solitude and safety for the sadist and little opportunity of escape or rescue for the victim.
Forty percent of the men took and kept personal items belonging to their victims
Sixteen percent of the men assaulted child victims only, and 26 percent attacked both children and adults
Twenty-nine of the 30 men selected white victims only.
Their crimes are repetitive, serious, and shocking, and they take special steps to prevent detection.
And they think they are smarter than the police and when being interviewed, will try and manipulate the interview and also try to gain knowledge of what the police know.
|by Anonymous||reply 434||03/27/2017|
Those poor little girls. May they RIP.
|by Anonymous||reply 435||03/27/2017|
What is the word on this case? For people who read FB groups or locals - what happened to the victims, what is gossip on who did it and why etc ?
|by Anonymous||reply 436||03/27/2017|
I followed this case so closely on WebSleuths and throughout the web.. there's a Facebook page with maybe 20K + and I check it for updates but it sounds like the case has gone cold.
|by Anonymous||reply 437||03/27/2017|
No one knows. It seems like there are tons of pedophiles and creeps in that area. And lots that look like the blurry photo.
|by Anonymous||reply 438||03/27/2017|
r433 I was thinking more of dangerous offender laws and mandatory sentencing, but you're right re: the prisons with pedo wings. We have our own up here (Canada) nicknamed Wally World; it's much calmer compared to others.
|by Anonymous||reply 439||03/27/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 440||03/27/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 441||03/27/2017|
R437 link to FB?
|by Anonymous||reply 442||03/28/2017|
[quote]Forty-three percent of the men participated in homosexual activity as adults, 20 percent engaged in cross-dressing, and 20 percent committed other sexual offenses, such as peeping, obscene phone calls, and indecent exposure ....
"Other"? So homosexual activity is a sexual offense?
|by Anonymous||reply 443||03/28/2017|
At this point,LE should release more info, like how the girls died, a profile of the killer, whether they think this is the work of a serial killer or a local, etc. they should also release more video or pictures, if they have them. It's not like it would hinder the case, as the case seems to have gone cold.
|by Anonymous||reply 444||03/28/2017|
This is my theory (My theory, by Ann Elk): the girls met this pervert online. He presented himself as an older boy, maybe 15 or 16. They set up a date to meet at the bridge. They got the sister to drop them off; I'm sure she was happy to get them off her hands for a while and didn't even look back as she drove away. When the girls saw the pervert walking toward them, they realized they had been duped and were in real trouble. That was when the one girl got the idea to record him on her phone. I bet he didn't much mind the recording since he planned to destroy the phones all along. I have no idea why they didn't just bolt when they saw him coming toward them, but something kept them there. Perhaps he had a weapon or managed to grab one or both of them before they had a chance to run.
Poor kids. The internet is a dangerous place.
|by Anonymous||reply 445||03/28/2017|
r445, there was someone else that was suppose to go with the but he didn't so not sure they would have asked a boy to come if they were going to meet some other random boy.
" and brydon misses you so much and feels like its his fault because he didnt go with you and abby. "
|by Anonymous||reply 446||03/28/2017|
But Libby did leave this instagram message. Don't have any idea of the significance, if any.
"Dear Peter Pan
I've left my window open
Please come rescue me"
|by Anonymous||reply 447||03/28/2017|
Yeah, she sounds kind of unhappy in general on her instagram.
I was thinking along what R445 wrote.
Why is the property owner (the guy they arrested on other charges) not cooperating?
The people on the Websleuths site think the guy in the photo on the bridge has brown hair, but I think that is a cap under the hoodie which you see better in one photo. The property owner has a cap that color. He was wearing in in the news clip. Not necessarily that it is him, but you can see the similarities of the type of hat.
|by Anonymous||reply 448||03/28/2017|
I think there is a lot more to the story. Apparently Abby, the younger one, had a 15 or 16 year old "love interest", some are saying he was her boyfriend. He apparently wrote about Abby on his FB page and his father also told people that his son had been dating her. Not that I think her boyfriend had anything to do with their murders...it's just that the image presented of them is so wholesome and virginal, no mention of boyfriends or dating by anyone in either of the girls' families.
The property owner over-cooperated in the beginning, which is what landed him in hot water. Once he realized he was a suspect, he lawyered up, as he should.
The case is going cold. Whether that is by design or not is open to debate.
|by Anonymous||reply 449||03/28/2017|
Can someone websleuth up a pic of the property owner's adult son(s) for comparison with the presumed perp, tia.
|by Anonymous||reply 450||03/29/2017|
Crap is this thread still being posted on? Good lord the websleuth frauen are obssessed.
[quote]My psychic friend says it was Hollywood Satanists and they killed Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds as well. These Hollywood Satanists criss-cross the country, looking for victims. Then they sacrifice the victims to Satan so that the Satanists can get good roles in movies. I know -- it sounds crazy. But my psychic friend says it's been happening for at least 50 years.
Your psychic friend is crazier than a shit house rat.
|by Anonymous||reply 451||03/29/2017|
Interesting r449. That correlates with what my friend said.
|by Anonymous||reply 452||03/29/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 453||03/29/2017|
I think Bethenny Frankel had a hand in it. And she always hated Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher.
|by Anonymous||reply 454||03/29/2017|
R453, if you're getting your picture taken in bare feet wouldn't you make sure they were clean?
|by Anonymous||reply 455||03/29/2017|
r455 She didn't know they were dirty until she saw the picture. Hasn't seen the soles of her feet in decades.
|by Anonymous||reply 456||03/29/2017|
Nevermind them all r453, I think you look very pretty.
|by Anonymous||reply 457||03/30/2017|
R453 may be the poster girl for all that is wrong in America, however, her face is much more attractive than the face belonging to Bethany Frankel.
|by Anonymous||reply 458||03/30/2017|
That face does not belong to Bethany Frankel, except that she paid big money for it. That face actually belongs to her plastic surgeon(s) although I doubt they will take responsibility for that mess.
|by Anonymous||reply 459||03/30/2017|
Alright you people have driven me to Websleuths to check out their thread on this case. Did I say thread? It's more like a 6 headed monster. There are pages and pages and pages. It seems since yesterday there were over 30 pages on the latest thread.
I did see some interesting videos made by "sleuthers" superimposing the photos taken by one of the girls onto the scene so you can get an idea of where everyone seems to have been at the times of the photos. Also for some reason I thought their bodies were discovered far away but they were found right on the side of that train trestle just down the hill and across the stream.
|by Anonymous||reply 460||03/30/2017|
I saw some of those videos, too. It is creepy that they put so much effort into it...but some of them are well done and give you an idea of the setting.
|by Anonymous||reply 461||03/30/2017|
Butf from what they said, they searched that area (where the girls were found) the first day, correct? So, they bodies were moved it seems. This case is beyond horrifying. Hopefully, some news will come out soon.
|by Anonymous||reply 462||03/30/2017|
Yes it is very unclear where they were that night
|by Anonymous||reply 463||03/30/2017|
It seems like he drove them around, at least to a secluded site. There were other people there that day and even though the killer asshole is brazen, he's not stupid. He planned this out and probably had a place to take them in advance. When they catch him, the need to cut his dick off and let him bleed to death.
|by Anonymous||reply 464||03/30/2017|
Yes, what a vicious and senseless crime.
|by Anonymous||reply 465||03/30/2017|
I can easily believe they missed the bodies. Though it seems one of the girls' phones was pinging around town after they went missing. The killer or someone else could have had it - I'm pretty sure it wasn't found with the bodies. In any event, phone location as per towers is not always accurate.
I think it's higly unlikely this person took them somewhere and brought them back to the location they went missing from. I think they died shortly after those pictures were taken.
|by Anonymous||reply 466||03/30/2017|
r466 Right? Didn't Chandra Levy end up being a place they had searched right when she went missing? Sometimes you just miss things. Caylee Anthony too.
|by Anonymous||reply 467||03/30/2017|
Just rumors, but this guy talks to LE and family members...
Rumors from the search party stated that the girls had to have been moved since the dump site found on 2-14 had been searched on 2-13. The searchers were adamant that they had searched the dump site thoroughly on 2-13. But the girls were covered with leaves, which would have made them hard to find at night.
On the other hand, new evidence states that searchers ran a thermal imager over the area (perhaps with an aircraft?), and while there were plenty of living things down there, none of them were human. In other words, the only things alive in that woods when the imager was run were wild animals. One would think that if the girls had been put there by 4 PM or so on 2-13 that the bodies would have shown up on the thermal imager. Sources: People close to the search party, people close to the families, leak from LE.
The new rumor said that yes the searchers followed the girls’ trail to the dump site, but the trail that the followed was made up of drag marks, not footsteps. So the killer returned the girls to the forest where they were abducted somehow. But this might not be difficult if he had kept them alive in, say, an outbuilding on Ron Logan’s land to have his fun with them overnight. No searchers would go near those outbuildings as they were located far from the search zone, so he had no fear of being caught.
I believe that the homicidal attack on the girls, no doubt the throat slitting, may have been done not long before they were dumped on the hill.
somehow he dumped those bodies there between 2:30 AM on 2-13 and 9:30 AM on 2-14 when the next search started. Logically there is no way that he would have dumped those bodies in that dump site in daylight. That’s just stupid. So depending on whenever dawn was that day in Delphi, the bodies were dumped in the pitch dark early morning hours of 2-14 between 2:30 AM and ~5-6 AM.
they were dragged down the hill, placed at the dump site and then the killer speared Abbie in the stomach as one final “F- you” to the poor girl.
when they were found, they were bound and had been sexually brutalized as well as being very badly beaten.
Some of the audio was recorded right before the abduction, and there is six minutes after that. The audio right after the recording of the man saying, “Down the hill,” records the girls screaming.
The girls were clearly not attacked or not attacked much at the dump site as the dump site was described as pristine
|by Anonymous||reply 468||03/31/2017|
No R468, Robert Lindsay is a total NUTJOB! He does not talk to family or LE. He has a very active imagination and makes shit up as he goes along. He likes little girls and is a homophobe. Don't believe anything he says.
|by Anonymous||reply 469||03/31/2017|
I can't believe that even if the search was called off at some point after dark they didn't have people watching the area and listening for any activity.
And, yes, Chandra Levy's body was found where they said they had already searched. Allegedly searched. They later tried to explain how they missed it by saying the discovery location was just outside the search.
|by Anonymous||reply 470||03/31/2017|
Has there been any credible source of rumors the girls were sexually assaulted? Not to my knowledge (not following closely tho), which likely means they werent.
|by Anonymous||reply 471||04/01/2017|
Wasn't there something about their clothes being in the river?
|by Anonymous||reply 472||04/01/2017|
Yes, r471. They were found nude.
|by Anonymous||reply 473||04/01/2017|
[quote]The searchers were adamant that they had searched the dump site thoroughly on 2-13. But the girls were covered with leaves, which would have made them hard to find at night.
Wouldn't bloodhounds be able to detect their scent?
|by Anonymous||reply 474||04/01/2017|
Where did you hear they were found nude R473?
|by Anonymous||reply 475||04/01/2017|
It seems like the landowner is the top suspect, but dude in bridge pics isn't him unless it was totally distorted when enlarged for release. Also cops said they were looking for evidence to move him up or down suspect list - where is that evidence? If they can't find it maybe their theory is wrong. Their desperation to solve could make them unwilling to see that they're chasing a mirage.
|by Anonymous||reply 476||04/01/2017|
They've got audio of the killer and they've got PLENTY of audio of landowner Ron Logan from when he unwisely gave an interview to every Tom, Dick, and Harry who asked for one. Believe me, if those two voices were the same, the FBI vocal experts would know that and Logan would be charged by now. It's just not him.
|by Anonymous||reply 477||04/01/2017|
I think his voice sounds very similar to the taped voice
|by Anonymous||reply 478||04/01/2017|
Agree R477. It's not Logan. But that wouldn't stop local LE involved in some shady shit to take the heat off of themselves by allowing Logan to hang out to dry, at least for a while.
There is just something weird about this case. Right from the start. LE did not take the girls' disappearance seriously and called off the search early evening of the 13th. When they were found murdered around noon of the 14th, the sheriff looked like a damn deer in headlights. I think he knows something about what happened to those girls and why. When asked if the community was in any danger, his cryptic reply was something along the lines of "well the people of Delphi are smart, they can figure out if they are in danger or not." Translate: "You all have a pretty good idea of why these girls were killed and by whom, so just don't piss off the bad guys and you should be ok. Go on about your normal business". ???? WTF?
Then, the overly-dramatic press conference where every LE, FBI, etc representative was in attendance and gave lengthy, over-emotional speeches. Overcompensation for their initial fuckup of not looking for the girls that night. And again, over-emphasis of Libby being a "hero" when there is really no proof that she purposely videoed him or not, especially re: the still shot from the video of the suspect on the bridge. Again, trying to shift the narrative to "these girls are heroes!" as opposed to the truth: "these girls were brutally murdered and the murderer(s) are still walking free!".
And the thousands of billboards. Come on now, this was obviously a local crime done by a LOCAL. Why such a push to direct attention AWAY from Delphi? Time to clean up any messes and get their ducks in a row is what I think. They will continue scapegoating Logan for as long as they can get away with it. The case will then "go cold" but by then in everyone's mind, "Logan did it!". Once all the fundraising is done, the families will move on. People will forget. Another senseless murder of a child will be the spotlight case and take the place of Libby & Abby. It's sad, but this is what happens all the time.
The fact that nobody in the Delphi and surrounding areas has come forward to identify the suspect on the bridge tells me that it is obvious this is a local person that people, possibly LE included, are protecting, for whatever reason.
|by Anonymous||reply 479||04/01/2017|
Yes, I think that was the weirdest thing - a gruesome murder of two kids and the police says the public did not have to be alarmed, or whatever he said...
|by Anonymous||reply 480||04/01/2017|
I Think people believes whatever the cops say too easily
|by Anonymous||reply 481||04/01/2017|
Has anyone on the police force ever investigated anything serious before? Maybe they have no idea what they're doing.
|by Anonymous||reply 482||04/01/2017|
Well R479 and others seriously discussing this horrible crime, having lived here all my life, the answer to almost all your questions can honestly be summed up in one phrase (and I do not mean this as a smart ass): Welcome to Indiana.
It's just how government and law enforcement are done here.
|by Anonymous||reply 483||04/01/2017|
I think it's a rural thing, probably not just Indiana...
|by Anonymous||reply 484||04/01/2017|
Doubt it, what would make dude so precious that he's protected even after killing two local teenagers
|by Anonymous||reply 485||04/01/2017|
r475, inside info.
|by Anonymous||reply 486||04/01/2017|
Absolutely LOVE Ashanti! One of my favorites from that era. Beautiful woman, and so much more classy than today's brainless hoes like Beydunce. Miss her terribly :(
|by Anonymous||reply 487||04/01/2017|
Sorry for R487, wrong thread!
|by Anonymous||reply 488||04/01/2017|
r488 We know!
|by Anonymous||reply 489||04/01/2017|
ARe we sure it wasn't a natural death?
|by Anonymous||reply 490||04/01/2017|
This case is boring with all the Nancy Drew's making shit up in their mom's basement Please someone light up DL again with the chilling and hot Joey Comunale.
|by Anonymous||reply 491||04/01/2017|
Noey! Noey! Noey!
My psychic friend told me to follow the mist.
|by Anonymous||reply 492||04/02/2017|
Yes, [R491], that Joey story was so complicated and *lurid*; so many unexplained, weird circumstances related to that.
*And* those threads were some of the best datalounge threads ever (there was a lot of dark humor mixed in with insightful commentary).
The threads were *long* too; everyone loved them. It was like a great mystery novel being played out week by week.
What *really* went down that night at the faux adopted son of the hot daddy jeweler's luxury penthouse?? I stil really want to know! (And there were SO many people involved and they had all only met Joey that night!) Crazy...
|by Anonymous||reply 493||04/02/2017|
Hottest murder victim ever?
|by Anonymous||reply 494||04/02/2017|
R492, is that photo for real? R493, what Joey story are you referencing? Link please.
Maybe Up and Vanished will follow this case and it can be solved like the Tara Grinstead case.
|by Anonymous||reply 495||04/02/2017|
Hi, [R495], yes, that pic of Joey is *very* real (from his Facebook page no less); he was an (apparently) nice "good old" Italian boy in NYC who met--for the first time--what he thought were some cool bros at an NYC club one night and went to the luxury penthouse of one of them to continue the party with the new group and was brutally murdered by the time morning came.
The main suspect was this young guy named James Rackover--first reported to be the son of famed jewelry designer to the stars, Jeffrey Rackover.
It turned out that James was not actually Jeffrey's biological son, but a young rent boy that the older jeweler had "adopted" and set up in a swanky NYC penthouse (changing his real name and everything). The story was so bizarre.
There were stories flying from law enforcement sources and media that Joey was killed by the partying group for everything from a fight about cigarettes (which I doubt) to Joey turning down the sexual advances of the Rackover rent boy himself (or one of the guy's close friends)--and this leading to a fight that led to Joey's brutal murder.
There were also rumors of alcohol, cocaine, and steroids being involved in that whole last party that Joey was at.
When Joey didn't come home for the usual Sunday family dinner, his Italian parents freaked out and filed a missing person's case and they were able to track his movements to the Rackover party and then trace the partygoers movements to Joey's body dump site in (I think) Jersey. (Not sure about the correct body dump site though).
Anyway, there were so many odd and sordid details about the lives of those involved in this case (and they had all just met Joey *that* night), so it was fascinating.
Police seem to know the "who" behind Comunale's senseless death (the young hustler/fake Rackover and his pals), but they don't seem to know the "why". Everyone at the party gave a different story.
I'm linking one of the original datalounge threads on this case below. It was one of many about Joey and the investigation that filled up very quickly....
|by Anonymous||reply 496||04/02/2017|
[R495], oops! Thought the pic you were referencing was the one of Joey C. @ [R494]!
|by Anonymous||reply 497||04/02/2017|
Todd Green misses Joey everyday!
|by Anonymous||reply 498||04/02/2017|
Start a Joey Communale thread then
|by Anonymous||reply 499||04/02/2017|
Any latest on the Communale case?
|by Anonymous||reply 500||04/02/2017|
bump for the guidos!
|by Anonymous||reply 501||04/02/2017|
Can we actually discuss this case and not some dumbfuck named Joey?
|by Anonymous||reply 502||04/02/2017|
Well, it sounds like Joey was murdered for nothing, and so were these kids.
|by Anonymous||reply 503||04/02/2017|
There were Joey communale threads but they got deleted, bummer cuz it's the perfect case for nelly nancies drew.
|by Anonymous||reply 504||04/03/2017|
Since this case about the girls is boring and sad.... Please keep Joey thread alive under this header so it won't get deleted by net nanny Muriel
|by Anonymous||reply 505||04/03/2017|
Well then what's the news on it?
|by Anonymous||reply 506||04/03/2017|
Still hope they find the bastard that did this. Any news?
|by Anonymous||reply 507||04/04/2017|
Curious that the previous Communale threads were deleted. What's up with that?
|by Anonymous||reply 508||04/04/2017|
It's very bizarre, [R508]; not only were the threads full of information about the case and its developments (new, legitimate news articles were being linked to daily on the threads), but overall--for datalounge anyway--the posters on the Joey threads were very respectful, and genuinely wanted justice for the guy.
Yes, there was your typical DL dark humor laced throughout (as always ;), but--like I mentioned previously--everyone was generally well meaning and really cared about the case and its developments.
There were also a lot of very interesting insights from DLers from the NYC and NJ area about the culture there--and especially the club/party culture there--that really enriched the reader's understanding of the case and what the primary players might have been like.
(And basically, *everybody* really liked Joey C., so these weren't negative threads about the victim either).
They were great discussions (some of datalounge's best true crime threads), so I thought it was very sad/confusing that they were just deleted out of nowhere...
|by Anonymous||reply 509||04/04/2017|
Well said R509
|by Anonymous||reply 510||04/04/2017|
r509 and don't forget Todd Green! We all started the thread a little jokingly because it was a bizarre case, etc. but once the pics of the sobbing, devastated, Todd Green came out, we all felt really bad and got very respectful.
|by Anonymous||reply 511||04/04/2017|
How many Joey threads went all the way? I can only find two that go to 600.
|by Anonymous||reply 512||04/04/2017|
Very true, [R511].
|by Anonymous||reply 513||04/05/2017|
I don't think the Comunale discussion should derail this thread, which is about a different violent crime (and is really interesting too).
So could someone please start another, separate Joey thread and get that discussion off this thread. And on that new thread, can we please have a TL;DR update on what the likeliest reason for the killing was? Was it a drug deal gone sour?
|by Anonymous||reply 514||04/05/2017|
Typical male behavior. Hijacking our thread.
|by Anonymous||reply 515||04/05/2017|
Owner of Delphi murder site admits to driving to county dump on day of girls’ killings
|by Anonymous||reply 516||04/05/2017|
I posted earlier about living in Indiana and how I thought the murderer might have used dogs. Today I heard they have a warrant for the arrest of a suspect. His initials are RC. I don't want to give his name because if it's not him I don't want him vilified by websleuths who will post pictures of him.
|by Anonymous||reply 517||04/05/2017|
Forgot to mention it's a murder warrant.
|by Anonymous||reply 518||04/05/2017|
[quote]His initials are RC. I don't want to give his name because if it's not him I don't want him vilified by websleuths who will post pictures of him.
|by Anonymous||reply 519||04/05/2017|
r519 WW! Bravo, I knew that fucker was a creep!
|by Anonymous||reply 520||04/05/2017|
[quote] Forgot to mention it's a murder warrant.
Do you mean an arrest warrant for murder? Could be accessory after the fact or other ancillary charges or it could be the BIG ONE.
|by Anonymous||reply 521||04/05/2017|
Let us know if it's the big one or not!
|by Anonymous||reply 522||04/05/2017|
Suspicion of 1st degree murder. He matches the description of the information that LE has but interestingly enough doesn't look at all like the man pictured in the woods. The guy they have the warrant for is younger and more clean-cut.
|by Anonymous||reply 523||04/05/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 524||04/05/2017|
Their parents were douchebags.
|by Anonymous||reply 525||04/05/2017|
Perhaps there were two killers? The land owner and a friend?
|by Anonymous||reply 526||04/05/2017|
Try to keep up, r526. The landowner is under arrest for an unrelated charge involving a DUI parole violation.
The only connection is that he probably would have gotten away with the violation if not for all the attention from the murders.
|by Anonymous||reply 527||04/05/2017|
If there's a warrant what's the hold up? Is the dude on the run or what?
|by Anonymous||reply 528||04/06/2017|
R519 looks like the twins from The Shining
|by Anonymous||reply 529||04/06/2017|
They can arrest someone for something else and say they are "not cosidered a suspect" but that can change.
|by Anonymous||reply 530||04/06/2017|
I've websluethed the killer! It's him, no question
|by Anonymous||reply 531||04/06/2017|
[quote]Owner of Delphi murder site admits to driving to county dump on day of girls’ killings
I don't see why that's necessarily suspicious. It's not like he dumped the bodies there. Seems like all it means is he went further than his probation allowed and thus violated its terms.
And what's the deal with the warrant? Truth or more fiction from the person who claims to live in the area?
|by Anonymous||reply 532||04/06/2017|
He could have been dumping evidence there. It's suspicious when it is the day of the murders and he said he was going somewhere else.
|by Anonymous||reply 533||04/06/2017|
Yeah but he was already seen drinking in a restaurant that day, meaning he already had been seen "somewhere else" AND violating his probation.
If this guy really was out hauling trash and drinking and driving around, plus the fact that he's an unhealthy 77 year old alcoholic, I just don't know how he could be the murderer. He does kind of look like the bad photo of the suspect, and I have to think that the cops, with the full video and audio, would already know if he was the suspect. Who knows.
|by Anonymous||reply 534||04/06/2017|
I agree with R534. Alcoholics aren't interested in kidnapping, raping, and murdering people. They are interested in ONE thing: booze. Booze, all day, all night, until they pass out. You think a real alcoholic is going to have time to plot something like this out? Or the motivation to do so? The only way an alcoholic would kill those two little girls is if they were named Vodka and Tonic.
|by Anonymous||reply 535||04/06/2017|
Plus, r535, there's almost no doubt that this was a sexually-motivated crime. Most serial sex killers eventually age out by the time they'e elderly, if they have not been caught. They just don't have the urge anymore. Add a chronic alcohol problem on top of that, and...
|by Anonymous||reply 536||04/06/2017|
r517, how did the murderer use dogs? And are you the one that knows someone in LE?
|by Anonymous||reply 537||04/06/2017|
Regarding the property owner, he's not allowed to be driving and certainly not allowed to be drinking and driving. He was at the dump site in the morning, not after the girls were at the park.
"We allege that he violated those conditions of his probation by drinking, by having access to his vehicle which he wasn’t supposed to have and by driving while he’s adjudicated as a habitual traffic violator,” said Deputy Prosecutor Jerry Beam after Logan accepted a guilty plea.
|by Anonymous||reply 538||04/06/2017|
Plus wouldn't two healthy teen girls be able to readily overpower an elderly drunk? If he did act alone.
|by Anonymous||reply 539||04/06/2017|
Land owner seems like a dead end on the murders, he's looking more like a useless old drunk with a streak of very bad luck.
|by Anonymous||reply 540||04/06/2017|
Anything? Any unsubstantiated rumors? Is the case unfortunately officially cold?
|by Anonymous||reply 541||04/09/2017|
Wtf happened to this case?
|by Anonymous||reply 542||04/12/2017|
I found two computer type things for boats that someone had left by the trash. I googled them and realized they were pretty valuable. Sold them on Ebay for $800
|by Anonymous||reply 543||04/13/2017|
Wrong thread ^. Any news? If you want to kill someone, Indy seems to be the place to do it. First Davey Blackburn sets up a hit of his wife and is not even given a polygraph. Next we have these poor girls who were tortured, raped and killed and LE has really not given us anything other than a bluury pic and a one-second snippet of this asshole's voice.
|by Anonymous||reply 544||04/13/2017|
time to go HIKING!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 545||04/13/2017|
Where is the evidence they were tortured and / or raped?
Seems like the crime happened fast and in public, neither of which is consistent with torturing and raping one person let alone two.
|by Anonymous||reply 546||04/17/2017|
It's so brilliant in it's simplicity. I wish I had thought of this!
|by Anonymous||reply 547||04/17/2017|
It was confirmed by LE and the family, r546. And unfortunately, it didn't happen fast to the older one.
|by Anonymous||reply 548||04/17/2017|
R548, where is that reported?
|by Anonymous||reply 549||04/19/2017|
Bullshit r548, no one has confirmed anything. Why did you come up with this story & why are you pushing it.
|by Anonymous||reply 550||04/19/2017|
I'm reporting it because it's the truth. The younger one was the first to die and the asshole took his time with the older one, who fought back. He is a sick fuck. I don't know why LE won't tell the public the truth.
|by Anonymous||reply 551||04/19/2017|
And he was upset that one of them wasn't a virgin.
|by Anonymous||reply 552||04/20/2017|
And where did all this drama go down then? In plain sight during the hour or 2 before people came looking for them? Doubt it. Ok then so what is info on perp, is he local, how did he get to & from scene
|by Anonymous||reply 553||04/20/2017|
R537, ISP had an arrest warrant for a man who was a pedophile that supposedly matched the description. This warrant was because of a tip that was called in. This particular offender had a work alibi. That's all I know now.
|by Anonymous||reply 554||04/20/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 555||04/20/2017|
r555 Yeah I just saw that, did you know that guy was driving HIS OWN FUCKING CAR?! What a maroon. Glad she was found, I'm sure she's sad as she was in love with him or whatever.
|by Anonymous||reply 556||04/20/2017|
Unless he told you himself, how would you know about his feelings at the time r552
|by Anonymous||reply 557||04/21/2017|
We are still talking about this? Quit feeding the fraus.
|by Anonymous||reply 558||04/22/2017|
Inside information, r557.
|by Anonymous||reply 559||04/22/2017|
Ignore R552 / R559 , I think it is the crazy homophobic nutcase blogger named Robert who has created an entire fantasy story about what HE believes happened and inserts himself in every online forum discussing the murders of these girls trying to sell his fantasy. He is batshit crazy, just ignore him.
|by Anonymous||reply 560||04/22/2017|
I'm not Robert, r560, whoever the hell that is. I just had some inside info. I won't post anything else I hear, as you seem to have an issue with the info being made public.
|by Anonymous||reply 561||04/23/2017|
Inside info about the minstate of an unknown perp as he committed the crime? LOL, no, not unless you are the perp.
|by Anonymous||reply 562||04/23/2017|
R561, how would you have "inside info" that the killer was upset that one of the girls allegedly wasn't a virgin if you didn't actually know who committed the crime? Can't you see how ridiculous you sound?
|by Anonymous||reply 563||04/23/2017|
Here's link to ravings of that Robert nut, lots of his theorizing is way out there but his reporting of rumors etc can be interesting if you're curious
|by Anonymous||reply 564||04/27/2017|
That site was weird r564. That guy is wayyyy to invested in this crime
|by Anonymous||reply 565||04/27/2017|
Why wouldn't they have lookouts in the area overnight? Don't killers often come back to the area of the crime?
|by Anonymous||reply 566||04/27/2017|
where are the blood stains at the supposed "kill site"? And why the fuck would the killer exert the huge effort to move 2 bodies back to where the girls were last seen?
|by Anonymous||reply 567||04/27/2017|
R567, the idea that the killer took the girls elsewhere and returned them to the bridge site makes no sense. And, of course, they would have a look out watching the bridge area that night.
|by Anonymous||reply 568||04/27/2017|
I see that Robert dude is also racist & anti Semitic FYI to anyone who might consider crediting his theories.
|by Anonymous||reply 569||04/28/2017|
Looks like the perp is ID'ed by a semi literate local in the comments on racist Robert's blog ^
|by Anonymous||reply 570||05/03/2017|
It's a shame this guy hasn't been arrested as of yet. Wow.
|by Anonymous||reply 571||05/03/2017|
I think about all the stupid missteps I make in a given day, nothing that's of significance a day later.
Those poor parents who have to live with the loss of their children.
I'm so sad for them.
|by Anonymous||reply 572||05/03/2017|
r570, what is perp's name? How did semi-illiterate come up with it?
|by Anonymous||reply 573||05/03/2017|
Go see for yourself^ POI is longtime acquaintance recognized by semi-lit in the vid & audio released to public
|by Anonymous||reply 574||05/03/2017|
It seems like the area is full of offenders that look and dress like that
|by Anonymous||reply 575||05/03/2017|
Yeah but only one of them is 1) left handed like the perp in the pics (backward facing gun in shoulder holster on his right side) and 2) known to have been alone with the victims' remains on the day of their discovery.
|by Anonymous||reply 576||05/04/2017|
"That Robert nut" is well-known alt-right psychopath and noted idiot Robert Lindsay.
The guy is useless. He could tell me the sky was blue and I'd look up to make sure, because he's a certified, card-carrying, registered moron and liar.
|by Anonymous||reply 577||05/04/2017|
None of the useful info comes from racist Robert, in fact it all undermines his jerkoff speculations. It's posted & discussed by others in the comments section on Robert's stupid nutcase blog. And all relevant info can be obtained / verified with a couple searches on your own.
|by Anonymous||reply 578||05/04/2017|
What about Joey Communale? Any news?
|by Anonymous||reply 579||05/05/2017|
R579, last I heard, Joey is still dead.
|by Anonymous||reply 580||05/05/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 581||05/06/2017|
[R579], I think the reason that we haven't had any good updates on the Comunale case is because the judge (at the behest of prosecutors) ordered the court records sealed for some reason in late Jan./early Feb.
The thing that's odd to me is that murder charges were "dropped" against two of the suspects and they were charged with obstruction or something instead; I really hope that that Rackover dude's pricey lawyers and wealthy sugar daddy connections aren't helping him get away with the murder of working class Joey....
|by Anonymous||reply 582||05/06/2017|
Bitch at r582 and the rest of you, please:
1) this thread is actually not about the Comunale murder, and I'd really like to hear more about those two 13-year-old girls who were murdered
2) the "wealthy sugar daddy" Rackover has washed his hands to the maximum extent possible of his "son"/ toyboy, and James Rackover is going down for the killing. It doesn't even matter if the other two guys are just being charged as accessories; they're all looking at long jail terms
3) Working class Joey" Comunale was a drug dealer. The reason he's dead is that the whole drug sale/ party scene went wrong that night. You know that, right?
|by Anonymous||reply 583||05/06/2017|
So is Rackover paying the big bucks to keep his "son" out of jail? What a fucking idiot. I hope he beats the rap, and takes Rackover for every penny he has left afterward.
|by Anonymous||reply 584||05/06/2017|
R583, everyone in Joey's murder will serve their long prison stints before these bumbling cops find the man who murdered those poor two little girls.
|by Anonymous||reply 585||05/06/2017|
They know who did it and have known for a long time. Will they ever bust his ass is the question, and wtf is taking them so long.
|by Anonymous||reply 586||05/06/2017|
I live about a half hour from Delphi. LA in that area is probably like the LA in my town; the sicko is probably well connected and on a first name basis with several officials. For example, my next door neighbor has been accused multiple times of coercing young boys into sex acts or at least making physical advances towards them. I'm talking about boys under the age of ten years old, not even teenaged. He used to volunteer for the town's boys little league. One little boy lives two doors down from my neighbor.
Yet no matter how many families go to the police with their stories, no charges have ever been filed against him. They promise an investigation, but it all gets swept under the rug with a big smile, a handshake, and a shoulder shake between my neighbor and his LA buddy.
|by Anonymous||reply 587||05/07/2017|
There's like no real info so who knows what's true but among the rumors there's been that one victim, A, was the primary and intended target; also that A was found staked through the abdomen; also that she may have been pregnant.
If all that's true, motive could've been getting rid of a problematic pregnancy. Maybe there was a grown man who'd be in trouble for impregnating a 13 year old, or a local boy who didn't want the burden. A cop or the son of a cop?
Maybe the whole town sees it his way, telling themselves poor little A was a slut and got what she deserved.
|by Anonymous||reply 588||05/07/2017|
r582 The charges were lessened because the cops fucked up in questioning them and so the one guy's confession was thrown out. The cops bumbled this on a Boulder PD level so these guys will get off pretty lightly.
|by Anonymous||reply 589||05/07/2017|
If this killer was a gay man. Every one would be busy critising gay people but everyday hundreds of hetero man and women kill other hetero, gay people but no mention of their heterosexuality. Man! It's tough to be a minority!
|by Anonymous||reply 590||05/10/2017|
I just visited Robert Lindsay page. He was explaining differences between paedophilia and hebephilia. And in definition of paedophile he said it was for those who have sex with girls under 12 but no mention of boys under 12.
|by Anonymous||reply 591||05/10/2017|
|by Anonymous||reply 592||07/20/2017|
R587, that's fucked up. The parents need to call the FBI. There's a chance the guy is exchanging CP.
|by Anonymous||reply 593||07/20/2017|
Yes, [R593], I totally agree!!
[R587], Haven't we all seen the traumatizing film, "Mysterious Skin" (with Joseph Gordon Levitt)?!? Those pedophiles (whether they be neighbors or little league coaches) fuck their victims up for *life*--and in ways that often therapy cannot even help with.
Those parents need to go to the FBI about the local cops purposely "ignoring" the sexual abuse of the kids under their jurisdiction (in favor of their friends/"buddies"). It's disgusting.
The parents should also contact non-profit sex abuse victims/survivors advocacy groups (a lot of them have legal departments) to help them navigate contacting/working with the FBI to shut those local (protected) sexual offenders down for good! (They may even need to sue the police department there).
This needs to happen; no more young boy's lives should be ruined by those evil local pedophiles you're talking about. This shit needs to stop. Now!
|by Anonymous||reply 594||07/20/2017|
Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said the portrait was made by an FBI sketch artist and was based on "recent information" from a witness who saw the suspect about the time of the deaths of German and Williams.
Wtf would someone wait this long to tell the police they saw the asshole?
|by Anonymous||reply 595||07/20/2017|
There's a guy that was recently arrested for killing his son. Told his wife that if he ever had to get rid of a body, he would "leave it out in the mountains." He is a long distance truck drive who has spent time in Indianapolis. And he looks like the suspect and appears to be age appropriate (55). it's a long shot but if the guy could kill his son out of spite, who knows.
Mark Redwine refused to stop looking for his 13-year-old son Dylan, who went missing from his Colorado home during Thanksgiving week 2012.
While law enforcement searched a nearby mountainside last week, Redwine was in Indianapolis, handing out fliers to truck drivers so they could look for his child on their routes.
|by Anonymous||reply 596||07/23/2017|
Wears the same jeans as the perp.
|by Anonymous||reply 597||07/23/2017|
Redwine speaking to Dr. Phil. Also shows him walking and from a distance, the look is the same. He's creepy.
|by Anonymous||reply 598||07/23/2017|
Redwine has reddish brown hair in this video. he also drives ALL over the US.
|by Anonymous||reply 599||07/23/2017|
The heartfelt prayer of a Websleuth on Datalounge...
Father, today I ask forgiveness for all of the "fucks" I've written in order to disguise myself in this nest of vipers. Please forgive my filthy tongue and typing-fingers; using the vile language of the homosexualist was but a misguided means to an end. For you see, I MUST keep sleuthin'. If not I, who then will think of The Children? Save me from this path of sin and help me walk in righteousness, peace, and joy; demonstrating Your love here on earth.
Help me resist the urge to sleuth family members. Help me remember that minors are never to be sleuthed. Help me steer clear of Facebook posts, which are not to be discussed. Help me resist the urge to name names of those not yet confirmed as suspects. Help me avoid posting links to sites not approved by the moderators. Help me remember to write IMO and MOO at the end of every post. Lord, I am weak! So weak that the threat of being put on time-out, weighing so heavily upon my heart as it did, drove me here to this cesspool of sodomites.
Father, please help me change course. Direct me out of this lawless land and back to my home, where God-fearing women on SSDI smoke Camels and drink wine coolers while saving countless little white children. They have worked hard to help me stay on the path you have chosen for me and I have failed them by straying. Transform my thoughts and take away the temptations which have led me to this filthy pit. Lead me back to my little glory hole on the web, Lord, and cleanse me!
|by Anonymous||reply 600||07/23/2017|