The trailer for "Iron Fist" is here, coming to Netflix March 17th

Also, Finn Jones muscles are non-existent. I don't understand how Marvel who is known for getting their guys in beefcake shape was okay with this.

Luke Cage was so, so bad. I kept going because of all the media attention and positive reviews, and then finally decided no, it's just crap. I've held off on Jessica Jones because I'm a lazy procrastinator and because I love the comic Alias (on which it's based so much), and Krysten Ritter, as much as I like her, doesn't capture the very specific character drawn in those pages.

Getting through JESSICA JONES was a chore and I don't plan on watching S2. I passed on LUKE CAGE due to his unimpressive characterization (both writing and acting) in JJ. Although S2 of DAREDEVIL was weaker than S1, I'll check out S3 as it's my favorite of the Marvel Netflix series so far. I had planned to pass on IRON FIST; however, the trailer initiated some interest in my giving it a try.

[quote] And you can't help but think it feels very reminiscent to premise of "Arrow". Rich heir mysteriously returns from his presumed death with kung fu powers to save his city and his father's company.

Read up a little on comics history. That was Danny Rand's origin story LONG before it was Oliver Queen's in the comics. "Arrow" was imitating "Iron Fist," not the other way around.

Be that as it may r4, "Arrow" was a very popular show with the crowd who will be watching this so many people are going to think that.

[quote]Luke Cage was so, so bad.

I managed to enjoy it will enough for around the first 8 episodes, the last handful were shockingly bad. IMO it had such a big nosedive.

I'd go

Jessica Jones/Daredevil S1 (though I like JJ better if forced to pick) Daredevil S2 Luke Cage.

So right now Marvel Netflix has been on a trend of getting worse, not better.

Ouch. This early review calls it laughably bad. Told you guys the preview didn't look good!

Alan Sepinwall calls it a complete misfire

Yay, Hollywood is finally making movies about comic book superheroes! Why haven't they done this before?

Jessica Stroup looks terrible in R6s picture.

So many people on Twitter going crazy because they cast white guy as a lead, although the character has always been white. Apparently whites doing martial arts is now cultural appropriation too.

Iron Fist is a "cultural appropriation" character honestly. It was Marvel's blatant attempt to cash in on the popularity of Kung Fury in the 1970s but they wanted a white guy be the face of it, so they have him go the this magical Asian city where he becomes their chosen one.

It's very Tom Cruise in Last Samurai.

Not that I care, but I get it. The more pertinent thing is the show apparently sucks donkey balls.

Jessica Jones was a masterpiece.

Luke Cage was great in the second half.

Daredevil is somewhere in between those two however Iron Fist was a mess. Although the problem seems to be Finn who really was miscast. Everyone else acted circles around him while he didn't even seem like he was on the same show.

Finn Jones is cute but they couldn't find an American to play Danny Rand?

I guess I totally misunderstood. I thought this was a remake of Falcon Studio's 1988 Iron Fist.

I like it so far. I watched the first five episodes so far. Finn Jones is easy on the eyes and the show got me with the scene with the handprint and the message "where have you been?" underneath.

Looking's Murray Bartlett is in episode 2.

I'm watching episode two and although I'm enjoying the show to a point I doubt I'll be finishing the season. I'm surprised how much I'm disliking Tom Pelphrey, who plays Ward Meachum. I loved him in Banshee but didn't even realize it's the same guy, and only realized it was him just now at IMDb. He's lost tons of muscle since Banshee which is weird since they probably started filming Iron Fist fairly soon after Banshee.

I'm fairly fed up with Marvel's Netflix shows. The only one I really and truly liked was Daredevil's first season. At that point I didn't realize they'd be using the same formula in Jessica Jones and Luke Cage. Even though all those three shows have good to great cinematography they tend to have a rather cheap feel to them, mostly because the storylines just aren't strong enough to last the whole season.

After Daredevil I was totally expecting great things from Jessica Jones, and ended up getting terribly disappointed. I liked the first four or five episodes and then it became obvious they were just stretching extremely light storylines to fill the 13 hour season. They could've told the whole story in 3 or 4 episodes. I keep getting surprised when people say it's their favorite show. Daredevil Season 2 wasn't as bad as JJ but the magic of the first season was gone. I tried watching Luke Cage but after two or three episodes it became clear it was Jessica Jones once again: a small story stretched to last a full season. I might watch the remaining episodes at some point.

It's obvious Iron Fist is the lightest of these shows and yet it's probably its biggest strength. The faux-seriousness of other shows makes Iron Fist feel like a breath of fresh air. After two episodes I'm liking it more than I expected. Still not sure if I'll finish the season.

Ritter was phenomenal in Jessica Jones.

R17, not really. She was mostly her usual bitchy self. I'm not saying she wasn't good, since she always is, but like I said in R16 the artificially stretched out story brought the whole show down.

Luke Cage is awesome

Luke Cage was a yawnfest. Second season of Daredevil was a bore. Jessica Jones is the best so far. Iron Fist is not as nearly as bad as critics are saying. So far it's been more enlivening than Daredevil and Cage. The biggest problem with all of these series is you can feel the writers spinning wheels and filling time as they try to extend the extremely thin storylines that were never intended to be transferred from page to screen. Scenes go on FAR too long. Entire episodes will go by with no discernible plot development Netflix needs to shorten these seasons even more, from thirteen to seven or six.

[quote]Ouch. This early review calls it laughably bad. Told you guys the preview didn't look good!

Who are you? Besides a grown man acting like a 13 year-old girl.

[quote]The biggest problem with all of these series is you can feel the writers spinning wheels and filling time as they try to extend the extremely thin storylines that were never intended to be transferred from page to screen.

I think the problem here might be that the writers are writing for a format that can be binged. I wonder if I would have liked DD Season 2 better if I had of watched it week to week instead of two or so episodes at a time. They managed to pull of Grace and Frankie since each episode seemed ultimately contained with a few plots running throughout the season. Every episode of The OA was different enough from the previous one with a new revelation so it didn't seem that bad to watch. You felt the drag more with Luke Cage and Daredevil Season 2. Orange is the new black at least told a different "story" every episode so you never felt like you needed to watch more than one episode at a time.

I like it so far, but is it just me or is there a weird incest vibe going on between Joy and Ward? There is so much sexual tension there, I don't know if it's intentional or not.

I want Danny and Ward to fuck. I know it's never gonna happen though.

Show has a severe lack of gay representation. Sure, Carrie-Anne Moss's character is a lesbian, but it's never brought up on this show.

I like the fact that Claire Temple showed up in this series too.

She's the glue that holds the series together R26. Love Rosario Dawson

R25, they've had at least two lesbian scenes, minor but still.. at least there was some lesbian presence, unlike gay. Seems like these comic book shows will only include lesbians, never gay men. I had some hope for Daredevil, considering they menionted the mayor and his boyfriend, but nothing came out of it. I'm only on episode 5 of Iron Fist, but..

SPOILERS AHEAD DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED

One of the women selling the new heroin flirted with another woman (aka they were lesbians) and one of Colleen's students (idk what to call them) said he had two moms. So again... at least they mention lesbian stuff, even if it's not much.. not even a single word about anything gay male related. We have to settle for the homoeroticism between Danny and Ward, even if they're practically brothers.

For a show about a mystical kung fu master the fight scenes are laughably bad. It's weird when you see how the action choreography of "Daredevil" or "Into the Badlands" and then watch this show where the action sequences are worst than what "Agents of Shield" is doing.

Finn Jones also just isn't that charismatic. The chick that plays Collen is outshining him for me so far.

It isn't terrible, but I get the criticisms. The writing is weak. Disappointment after the first seasons of "Daredevil" and "Jessica Jones" really showed that Marvel could be better than this.

Am loving the return of Madam Gao! (played by Wai Ching Ho)

I have to agree with the fight scenes. For a show about martial arts fighting it's pretty bad. They should have gone for some different style of filmaking to make it look more impressive or get a better editor on this.

The main actor cannot act for shit. Everyone else is better than the guy playing Danny.

I don't have problems with Danny, a.k.a. Finn Jones, partly because I love his semi-bulge and fat butt. That said I like his acting as well. When I started watching the show I wasn't expecting a lot so everything positive is a plus.

I'm only at episode five but the fight sequences so far have been quite underwhelming. Danny and Colleen Wing were showing their skills with various weapons and it was obvious that yes they've practiced the use but they are certainly not masterful like they're supposed be. The production should've definitely gone with some CGI and editing magic here.

I find all the hoo-hah about Danny Rand being white rather hilarious - especially given that the actress playing Colleen Wing (who is supposed to be Japanese-American) is actually Anglo-Singaporean-Chinese. But hey, fangurls, as long as she has slitty eyes you're okay with that, you hypocritical sluts?

The trouble with this show is that Danny is the main character but he's the least interesting. Also... the guy playing Danny cannot act for shit.

SPOILER

I think it was a mistake to kill Harold. The guy had so much potential. They could have done so much with his character. I know they sorta had to kill him off to move the story along, I'm just saying.. I think it was a mistake in the long run.

SPOILER

Ok... nvm. I guess it's not possible to kill a dead guy lmao.

It would have been great if they made Ward gay, maybe his dad is a homophobe and that's why he beats him. Like.. I know it will never happen, this is Marvel. They don't mind lesbians but gay men.. nope, we can't have that! Sigh. It would explain a lot re: Ward though and it would actually make sense considering how he behaves and his relationship with his dad. Also...the comment he made about Danny's tie being effeminate reaked of internalized homophobia.

They had openly gay Murray Bartlett from "Looking" play Danny's psychiatrist in the first few eps which I appreciated. He did a good job too.

Murray also shows up again around episode 9.

I wonder about Davos. Is it just brotherly love he feels for Danny? Danny leaving their home (and him) feels a bit personal. But then both Davos and Danny have been brainwashed that their only purpose is to guard a path with a gate and Danny abandoned his duty.

Harold gave off gay vibes with his sweet little assistant. Especially when he took off his belt and walked menacingly toward him. Maybe the assistant is so loyal because he craves that dominant daddy dick.

Daredevil was meh for me, but I liked Jessica Jones, and the latter half of Luke Cage was great (Viola going dark). I want to like this (one of my friends directed one of the episodes), but the fighting scenes are terrible. Oh well- I guess every Marvel venture can't be successful.

In one episode Claire Temple (Rosario Dawson) gives Danny a shirt with a bullet hole in it so he can wear it. Does anyone know which Marvel show the shirt is from?

[quote]I liked Jessica Jones, and the latter half of Luke Cage was great (Viola going dark).

You mean Alfre Woodard who has made a career out of playing sympathetic but crazy characters. (I actually love her as an actress.)

Luke Cage is awesome, from Cottonmouth to Alfre Woodard to the new boss blatino thug.

I liked it a lot, R43. My main issue with it is that Danny really wasn't that interesting as a main character. I actually thought Ward and Joy had the most interesting story, they had amazing chemistry as well. I could have done without the lame and clichéd love story between Colleen and Danny. I also think Danny was miscast, the actor is hot but can't act for shit. I wasn't very convinced by Colleen's acting either. Ward and Joy were both good though, their story is what really pulled me in. I found myself bored by the Danny and Colleen story. Anyway, it was a good show, I liked it overall, despite its flaws. I still wish they would have made Ward gay, but this is a Marvel show so it's never gonna happen.

[quote]I like the fact that Claire Temple showed up in this series too.

Rosario Dawson is great, but her presence always creates plotholes.

Why wouldn't she tell Danny to contact Matt Murdock for help? Nope, let's just go off to China to go after the Hand and not call this other Ninja I know who lives down the street who has lots of experience fighting the Hand.

I get it is "Iron Fist", and not the Defenders yet, but things like that bug me. But anyway, have to accept it. That's not really my problem.

This show is okay, but overall it feels like a lesser effort than the shows that have gone before it. Doesn't seem to have the same effort that went into crafting it.

[quote]I also think Danny was miscast

I don't understand how Finn Jones landed this role. He isn't a good actor, so it isn't like they picked him for his acting skills. He has ZERO muscle definition, the idea this character has been training his whole life is laughable. And he doesn't look great in the fight scenes, as Finn has admitted he had never had martial arts training until a couple weeks before he started filming.

The casting really perplexes me.

I never realized til OPs photo, but Chris Pratt & Patrick Wilson look like brothers.

[quote]Why wouldn't she tell Danny to contact Matt Murdock for help?

Oh, they will meet and help each other soon enough.

[quote]Why wouldn't she tell Danny to contact Matt Murdock for help?

R47, They didn't part on the best of terms at the end of Daredevil. When the Hand attacks her hospital and her friend is killed she ends up quitting her job there because the hospital wanted to pretend it never happened. She even tells Foggy that Matt will have to find someone else to help him if he gets injured.

Afterwards she loses her apartment and moved to Harlem where she meets Luke Cage. In Luke Cage she gets Colleen's phone number and begins to take classes which leads her into Iron Fist.

While Iron Fist makes it clear she's still communicating with Luke Cage via letter, she hasn't patched things up with Daredevil.

So she didn't contact him because he's her ex, she's probably still angry with him and unlike Jessica Jones people don't know Matt Murdock is a hero. She's also been on a journey since her friend's death in Daredevil and the beginning of Luke Cage to prove that she can handle herself since she keeps getting into these situations.

Let's be real r51, those aren't real reasons why she wouldn't contact Daredevil.

As that poster said, the real reason she didn't is because they need to save that interaction with the Defenders of course. It's a TV show, that's how it works. But in terms of in-universe reasons "didn't part on the best of terms", who cares when it is a life or death mission with the Hand and he is someone who has tons of experience fighting them and lives blocks away.

It's the same reason they don't call in the Avengers during most of the solo movies.

I loved Jessica Jones and the first season of Daredevil. I gave up on both S2 Daredevil and Luke Cage after a few episodes. Just didn't care. I doubt I'll watch Iron Fist.

I was always more of a DC fan than Marvel, but I have given up on the DC tv shows too.

[quote]Let's be real [R51], those aren't real reasons why she wouldn't contact Daredevil.

Okay then, we'll be real. Yes, they are.

However, I'll agree that they don't treat NYC like anything is blocks away and that *doesn't* make sense. They act like just because she moved in with her mother she couldn't just hop on a train and go to HK.

The "didn't part on the best of terms" is a very valid reason in her case. She made it clear she didn't want anything to do with him since her life got fucked after she met him.

If Luke Cage were around she would have contacted him. That would make more sense and they are still clearly communicating.

After six episodes I'm liking the show so much that I'd say only Daredevil Season 1 beats it in the Marvel Netflix lineup. Iron Fist is not a perfect show by any means but neither are the other ones. I personally like the story and most of the chracters in Iron Fist, and yes, they're fluffy, but that's just business as usual with Marvel on Netflix. I don't have problems with Finn Jones at all. He's playing the character like he's supposed to. I'm an old yoga/meditation guy and once lived in a monastery for a while so I get Danny's attitude. Sure, Jones might not be the greatest actor out there but he's doing a good enough job.

Still, Daredevil S2, JJ and Luke Cage ended up being disappointments so that might happen with Iron Fist as well. BTW, it's a bitch to discuss shows like this when some have seen the whole season already. You can't really go through the whole thread if you don't wan't to see spoilers.

I still miss the buff Tom Pelphrey from Banshee but I've warmed up to his portrayal of Ward at this point.

Finn Jones is a TERRIBLE actor. He was horribly miscast. I felt myself bored at his scenes and cringed watching some of his "acting". It didn't help that Danny had the least interesting storyline. Ward and Joy were much more interesting to watch, Ward in particular, who is a real asshole. He's messed up but a good guy deep down. This is just my opinion but to me Ward's character felt more fleshed out than Danny. Ward and Joy had amazing chemistry, their scenes really pulled me in. I watched for them, and ended up rooting for them. I didn't care at all what happened to Danny, Danny was a naive little brat. He was too annoying to root for.

I just have to ask.. did you guys care about what happened to Danny? Did you feel bad for him? Did you root for him? What about the Meachums? Who did you guys like more, Danny or the Meachums? Sorry, just have to ask, because I wonder if I'm alone with my opinions or if you guys agree.

Well so far the Meachums and Ward specifically has a much more interesting character arc with better writing than Danny himself so that is hardly surprising.

I think the best thing in the first season is the dynamic between Harold, the father, and his son, Ward. That and Madame Gao.

Regarding The Defenders: I wonder when will that show take place? Will it be before or after what Danny and Colleen have discovered in the last scene of the finale?

Thank you, R59. I'm glad you agree.

LIke I feared the show went south fast. The China episode was so terrible I couldn't take it anymore and just fastforwarded through the rest.

I mainly blame the writing. I think Finn Jones did what was asked. I certainly don't hold him responsible, like some people seem to.

Oh well, I did enjoy the first few episodes so it's not like I'm disappointed really. And I really like music from the title sequence.

r44- mea culpa. You are right. Cottonmouth is the guy from Moonlight, no? And Hidden Figures. Boy is busy.

The weak writing is obviously a huge flaw in this show. but I don't think Finn is great either. Though soon we will see how he does in the role in "The Defenders", with a different (and presumably better) writing team.

[quote]Regarding The Defenders: I wonder when will that show take place? Will it be before or after what Danny and Colleen have discovered in the last scene of the finale

Wha? Obviously "The Defenders" team up takes place after "Iron Fist".

I seriously assumed you were making some sort of joke r63, can't tell the difference between Alfre and Viola. Yikes.

And yes Cottonmouch was new oscar-winner Ali, and the show seriously suffered and nose-dived once they killed him off.

[quote]The China episode was so terrible

What that episode really hammered home was how low-budget this production was, they didn't even try to make it seem like they were actually in China.

r24- Wing is a Chinese surname. I don't know the comic, but they did the appropriate thing and changed the surname for her ethnicity.

r49- having worked with both, they don't to me (but I worked with Pratt when he was still chunky). Patrick in person looks like Paul Newman- he's actually better looking in person.

r64, sadly I was not- I was operating on a hour's worth of sleep (worked til 6am, then had a 3 hour French class) and too much caffeine, was unable to sleep and too lazy to Google.

[quote]Wha? Obviously "The Defenders" team up takes place after "Iron Fist".

What I meant was will The Defenders show deal with what Danny and Coleen discovered in the finale or will they just ignore that and deal with that in the second season of Iron Fist (if there is one)? Sorry, my wording of the question was way off.

Glad they gave each of the show's a unique style. IF is brighter than the others and I'm liking it better, but I understand that many others prefer darker shows.

Finn Jones is really getting flamed for his acting, but none of the other series' leads were particularly well-cast or great actors. The supporting casts on all of these shows help keep the quality up.

[quote]What I meant was will The Defenders show deal with what Danny and Coleen discovered in the finale or will they just ignore that and deal with that in the second season of Iron Fist (if there is one)?

R66, it would appear from the teaser and Stick's voice in the teaser that all roads will lead back to The Hand.

... cause there's a giant hand behind it.

Also Daredevil and Jessica Jones' next season are scheduled for 2018. My guess is the hand stuff will be dealt with by then.

[quote] Glad they gave each of the show's a unique style. IF is brighter than the others and I'm liking it better, but I understand that many others prefer darker shows.

Iron Fist was brighter at first but for some reason it turned super violent. I mean it's basically a kids show in its idiocy and suddenly there's a close-up of someone repeatedly hitting a man in the head with a hammer. I assume the guys in the production love their super violent kung-fu and action movies from the 80s. "Take us seriously, DAMMIT!"

[quote]Finn Jones is really getting flamed for his acting, but none of the other series' leads were particularly well-cast or great actors. The supporting casts on all of these shows help keep the quality up.

Judging by the comments elsewhere some people seem to think Finn Jones was ad libbing his whole part and it was all his fault. I mean geez, it's the writers who wrote his lines, and it was the production that was responsible for creating the Danny Rand we saw. Sure the actor always has his part in that creation but when you're a playing pretty much an imbecile with idiotic lines you can only do so much. Unless you're extremely talented and you steal the limelight. Finn Jones is not that guy but I wouldn't say he's somehow vastly inferior to other Marvel/Netflix leads. When the material is this awfully bad things get confusing.

Yeah, the leading character is pretty naive and innocent coming to this new world he has no clue about and trusting the wrong people. You can't give that much layers or debth when you have to keep being naive and trusting the wrong people until the big showdown.

Ward Meachum was the best thing about his show. He was the most complex character, he was actually fleshed out, unlike Danny Rand. Ward was not perfect, he was a narcissitic liar, but I still ended up rooting for him because he was a good guy deep down. He was abused his entire life, no wonder he was so broken inside.

Danny though.. oh dear. Sure, the writing didn't help, but Finn Jones' acting was subpar. I don't get why they wrote Danny to be such an annoying and stupid brat. Ward was a real asshole yet I found myself rooting for him and not Danny. The two episodes Ward was missing were also the worst, and I don't think thst was a coincidence. At one point I was afraid Ward would die, but I honestly wouldn't give a fuck if Danny ended up dead instead. PS. Tom Pelphrey acted circles around Finn Jones. Finn needs some acting lessons.

Just saw the first episode... Finn's fighting looked so clumsy it was hard to buy Danny had any martial art training at all.

Finn has tried to "defend" that r72

[quote]I barely had time to rehearse the fights in advance, it's kind of amazing when you see the show - I was learning 15 minutes before filming them. From that perspective I'm really proud of the work everyone's put in. I don't think people really understand how quickly this show was made.

But he doesn't realize he is confirming what I a lot of people thought after watching, this show was a rush job to get to "The Defenders" and they didn't put the same level of work into it trying to make it great TV on its own.

Well Sigourney Weaver's Alexandra is the primary antagonist for "The Defenders" r68, she is an original creation, not a comic book character. We don't know much more about her at this point.

I guess she might have to be the main leader of the Hand though, it's really the only thing that makes sense given what they have set up so far.

Damn, Lewis Tan is not so subtly throwing it out there that he thinks he would have been a better pick than Finn Jones. He played that drunk fighter in the China episode, and was pretty charismatic on camera.

And he emphasizes how he is actually has muscles (unlike Finn), and lots of martial arts training (unlike Finn).

[quote]Finn Jones is really getting flamed for his acting, but none of the other series' leads were particularly well-cast or great actors. The supporting casts on all of these shows help keep the quality up.

While I agree with you that none of the leads are really great actors, I think Finn is getting more hate because there are fewer good things to distract you when it came to his show.

The original creator of "Iron Fist" had something to say about this R75:

[quote]“Yeah, someone made me vaguely aware of that,” Iron Fist co-creator Roy Thomas said to The Inverse in a new interview when asked about the outcry. “I try not to think about it too much. I have so little patience for some of the feelings that some people have. I mean, I understand where it’s coming from. You know, cultural appropriation, my god. It’s just an adventure story. Don’t these people have something better to do than to worry about the fact that Iron Fist isn’t OriItental, or whatever word? I know Oriental isn’t the right word now, either.”

It's clear he lacks any kind of media training.

R76 LOL "Oriental or whatever word"? This guy should just have Danny learn martial arts in Canada. What's the difference?

Yeah, you can tell he is an old white man (76) with no media training.

At least he does go on to say this

[quote]On the other hand, if they had decided to make Iron Fist an Asian, that would have been fine with me, too. I wouldn’t have cared. I didn’t consider myself the safeguard of some kind of Caucasian literary standard or anything like that. But I would have found it easier to write about a Caucasian, so that’s one reason I probably did it. If somebody had suggested, “You want to make it so he’s Asian?” Well, we could have done that too.

In the comics, I think Iron Fist was closely tied to Luke Cage.

Not a defense, just an observation. They probably thought that a comic starring a black and an Asian superhero was not going to sell very well in the 1970s. Plus, it would have been easier to defend that this was not a just a Bruce Lee knockoff.

[quote]He played that drunk fighter in the China episode, and was pretty charismatic on camera.

That fight scene was great because of him. I really have to wonder who fucked up on that show to release it with such lackluster fight scenes? Didn't they care at all?

R79 you are correct ! Heroes for Hire / The Defenders have both Luke Cage/Iron Fist on them.

I find it funny that no one is bothered by Coleen Wing's presence and Misty Knight's absence . I guess there is only room enough for one white washing issue at a time.

[quote]Didn't they care at all?

From what I understand when Netflix and Marvel signed a contract for all these shows it included a timeline for when "The Defenders" needed to be out, so they were in a rush to get to it. "Iron Fist" had to be rushed out beforehand to maintain the timeline, so this show was a rush job in all aspects.

[quote]I find it funny that no one is bothered by Coleen Wing's presence and Misty Knight's absence

Huh? Simone Missick who plays Misty Knight is in "The Defenders", all the big supporting players from these shows are there.

I've never done "shipping" but I want to see sweaty Davos hook up with the gay secretary. Surely Harold will do everything in his power to bring his beloved ice cream queen back? Probably not. After all, it must have been the height of entertainment for the straight guys to see a homosexual (or rather a "beta cuck", as they call us) being relentlessly tormented and then spooned to death.

Awful show, mainly due to low budget and terrible writing. Danny and Bakuto should go to an acting class together.

[quote]Surely Harold will do everything in his power to bring his beloved ice cream queen back?

Harold's entire body was incinerated dear. And ambiguously gay secretary ain't coming back.

Though I get your point about Davos, the actor was hot. It's a shame they had him and Joy so quickly go off the rails in the end scene where all of a sudden they wanted to kill Danny. That made zero sense for Joy, and Davos is meant to be an antagonist sure but his motivations actually made complete sense. Danny was an asshole who stole the power of the Iron Fist and ran away.

I also was confused why Davos was Indian, I mean K'un Lun is a mystical Chinese city. A big thing is that Danny by not being Chinese was a big outsider.

R84 Damn, I completely forgot about Harold's cremation! I was so exhausted after binging the entire series in one day/night. I don't even remember much anymore and it's probably for the best.

Yeah, Davos' Manchester accent is incongruent with someone who was born and raised in K'un-Lun. Also, he seemed so sheepish and innocent all the time and by the end he's masterminding Danny's demise with Joy? Sure.

I got through the second episode, and now think I will finish this series, because each episode seems to be its own mini train wreck.

Tom Pelphrey is a good actor and he seems like a really nice guy too, from his Twitter anyway. Ward Meachum is a great character, he's much more interesting than the boring clichéd Danny Ward.

R85, I didn't get the ending... why does Joy want revenge on Danny all of a sudden after defending him throughout the entire show? Is it because he killed Harold? Well... I guess Ward technically killed him, but still.

[quote] why does Joy want revenge on Danny all of a sudden

Because the writers thought it was a "cool cliffhanger" to end on...

Really, it didn't make sense.

In the comics, Joy's a villain. Unfortunately they failed at her motivation on the show.

The fourth and fifth episodes were actually quite watchable. It helps once Danny got cleaned up and quickly reclaimed his place in the company. Finn got more comfortable in the character, and was able to be kind of zany/kooky/charming. The fighting also got better. By then, I also got used to how flimsy and gimmicky the plot and writing is.

I'm in the middle of episode four.

There are so many problems with this show, but at the same time, it's not as bad as most of the reviews imply. Sure, it's the worst of the Marvel properties so far... but it's still way better than any of the CW super-hero shows. Okay, I know that's a low bar, but it's watchable.

The guy who plays his cartoonishly evil "pseudo-brother" also played a former Nazi in the excellent and under-appreciated TV show "Banshee". He was AWESOME in that. He's pretty terrible in this, but I think that's more about the material.

R90 Motivation really is the key word all critics use when reviewing this show. I know the production was rushed but would it really have taken them more than a day for a brainstorming sesh on at least the main three characters' motivations? And it's like Writing 101 as well.

R91 and R92 Of course it's watchable; no one is disputing that. But have we really come to think of Netflix-Marvel shows as something that's only watchable? The show's doing very well on streaming but the brand has definitely lost a bit of shine. The lesson here is mainly that they should never rush their projects like they did this one. There's no reason why it couldn't have a brilliant second season if given proper attention (and budget).

Though I still think the first minute of the first episode conveys everything you need to know about its quality: bland dialogue, terrible acting, unimaginative locations, and non-distinctive overall style.

Finn's butt looks great, though. I mean REALLY great. To the point that it kind of starts to compensate for his lack of acting chops. I can just see how the entire casting team got entranced by it. Can't imagine how else he got this job.

You make valid points, R93.

Gotta love a Buddhist that eats chicken parm sandwiches and drives a fancy sports car.

R95 Forces "his" company to sell drugs at cost, then proceeds to drive around in an Aston Martin (without a licence) and bring in staff for a takeout(!) for him and Colleen. It's The Way of the Buddha!

Also, what's more Buddhist than appealing to Buddha to guide you and soften your landing just before jumping down an elevator shaft? It's what mantras were made for!

The sixth episode is the most comic book like... Mindless gratuitous fighting and the villain (Madame Gao) taunting the hero to advance the plot. Hence, it is the best episode so far. Then, in the seventh episode Ward went all American Psycho... so that's what his drug abuse subplot was going. At least this show is moving fast.

R96 It's yuppie (or in Danny's case, hottie) Buddhism.

Ward and Colleen were my favorite characters. Danny is so unlikable.

R98 I am the opposite. Danny is clueless but charming, but Ward is just so messed up it's revolting to even look at him, while Colleen has zero charisma.

R99 Out of curiosity, what do you think about Davos?

R93 I sure noticed Danny's butt in episode 7... but is it real or just those pants?

I watched it and enjoyed it, probably because I had low expectations from all the bad reviews. I found Iron Fist much more entertaining to watch than the second season of DD or the 2nd half of Luke Cage which dragged.... I think the critics went overboard---13% on Rotten Tomatoes?--whereas the ratings by fans gave it 85%.

For me, the weakest plots were the Rand story-line. There was too much time and emphasis devoted to Rand Corporation and on Ward and Joy's storyline. I agree with the poster that said there was an incestuous vibe going on between Joy and Ward. Don't these rich billionaires have girlfriends, spouses or friends? It would have been more convincing if Ward was gay and that would explain the abuse from his father and the closeness to his sister. However, the series is supposed to be about the Iron Fist, not them. The writing should have spent more time on Danny's back story. He wasn't convincing as a martial arts Master who returned after living in some fabled monastery, he looked like a homeless hippie back from a Grateful Dead concert.

I think people are too hard on Finn Jones. He didn't really look too fit when he initially started the season but seemed to get more toned towards the end, like in R101's pic (or was it CGI?) He said at first he had 2 months to train (which I don't believe), then later backtracked and said he had 3 weeks. However, Finn Jones is good eye candy, has lovely eyes and hair....

I liked the Danny/Colleen dynamic The actress who played Colleen was the scene stealer, IMO-- plus she's beautiful and cool-- her character was the one who propped up Danny's storyline; it would have been weak without her.

I think the fault of the show lies with Netflix in trying to rush in this series in time for The Defenders. It clearly looks like a rush job. If there is a Season 2, they should take their time in writing, training and choreographing the fighting scenes. Finn definitely needs more training. He's pretty to look at but not convincing as a martial arts master. But I wonder if there will be a Season 2? There's talks of getting Colleen her own series.

R102 It's is what it is, as Danny likes to say. By sticking to the retro comic book (nonsensical) premise, it can't help but get a cold shoulder from the more socially conscious critics. But as a comic book derivative entertainment (i.e. superhero fantasy), it did its job. I like that it is more fast-paced and less dreary than Daredevil, even though the characters and the violence end up more cartoon like. I think more prep time might have smoothed out some deficiencies in the earlier episode (which might deter some viewers from continuing), but would not have radically improved the series as a whole. I find once I got through the first two episodes, then they got more entertaining and each episode got me hooked for the next one.

I think this show lacked a lot of heart that I libed from the other shows. Like in Jessica Jones, which was so fucking bleak and terrifying, her sisterhood/friendship with Trish was one of my favorite parts of the show. In Daredevil, the Matt/Foggy dynamic that later included Karen made the show fun to watch. Luke Cage had Pop and the Harlem community which was like a character itself. In this one, everyone seemed like an asshole.

R104, I disagree. I liked Danny and Colleen's relationship and romance. He's the only Marvel Super-hero in a stable relationship.

R105 I wonder how Danny learned about having sex with a woman in a monastery in K'unlun? It didn't seem like his first time, so he might have had sex already after he left K'unlun.

[quote]I wonder how Danny learned about having sex with a woman in a monastery in K'unlun? It didn't seem like his first time, so he might have had sex already after he left K'unlun.

Finn Jones said Danny was a virgin, but I agree, it didn't seem like his first time at all.

Same could be said about him wearing a suit and tying a tie and driving a car and a hundred other things. There was a lot more opportunity for "fish out of water" stuff that could have been fun and interesting, but they totally failed on that front.

All the Harold vs. Ward stuff stood out, because it was great. The actors sold it. The stabbing scene was borderline cathartic, because by then you knew what Ward went through all these years (not just what the audience saw on the show).

Jessica Stroup was the weak link, but mainly because her character does barely anything but being all over the place when it comes to whose side she's on. But Finn Jones isn't exactly great either.

It's unfortunate that it turned out to be such a rush job.

Ward was the only good thing about this show.

Ward and his dad needed their own show. It was as if the Iron Fist was some guy walking in and out of their scenes. it wasn't the actors fault, just bad writing.

Ward was the worst thing about the show. I loved the actor in Banshee, but he was terrible here.

R112 Tom Pelphrey was just acting like a soap villain through the earlier episodes, and then did a fair imitation of American Psycho when Ward got his drug problem and started killing. But then, this cast is seriously weak. David Wenham just hams it up as Harold, and the only thing Finn has going as Danny is being good-looking, quirky and dumb. So maybe in comparison, Tom's acting looks good because he exhibits more "range".

I had no problem with this series until this point, but episode 8 is seriously cringe-worthy. Did I hear correctly? I thought they were flying to Hangzhou? And they ended up in some cheap "Chinese" village set... populated with odd "Chinese" characters.... and one with an Aussie accent? What now?

R114 They appeared to have flown to Anzhou, if several reviewers and closed captioning are to be believed. But still, Anzhou in Hebei? Perhaps they meant Cangzhou? Definitely didn't look like Hangzhou, unless it was on the outskirts. But what's the point of that? Though it needs to have a landing strip for that jet to land, right? So it couldn't have been just any village or small town. Oh god, this fucking show.

I was bothered by this as I always like checking locations online as soon as they're mentioned in any TV show.

And if we're thinking of the same guy (the drunk fighter), then that accent was Mancunian, not Australian. But he was also mixing it with a stereotypical Chinese accent so it might have come out as Australian at times.

Either no one caught these things in pre-, mid-, and post-production or (more likely) no one cared enough to point them out.

Yeah the episode where they "flew to China" was laughable in that they did nothing to make it seem like they were actually in China.

R116 They should just stick to Chinatown with their limited budget.

R117 That's hilarious but the show would probably come off even more culturally insensitive than it already is.

R118 This show is never gonna be culturally sensitive, so I have no expectation in that regard. But this "China" episode just made the characters themselves look stupid... Madame Gao is supposed to be producing synthetic drug not knockoff handbags, so she accomplishes that in China with "slave labor" in a rundown warehouse with a big chemistry set? And the whole facility is guarded by a drunk and a woman with a sword? What were those writers smoking?

Another faux pas is why do they always bring severely injured people to Claire? The only thing she did was slice his chest with a stupid credit card and let the guy lay in his own pool of blood; she did not even wash his wounds out, no IV, nothing. She is totally worthless and clearly dangerous medic.

You could tell Louis Tan has done martial arts for a while. I loved his drunk fighting style.

R120 She was working with what she had, now that she technically doesn't have a job (although I'm sure Danny will employ her in same fashion for The Defenders, if he's going to bankroll The Defenders like Tony does with the Avengers)

I really liked Claire's scene with Gao, when Gao said she hangs out with the gifted because she hopes what makes them special will rub off on her. And then flash forward, she's studying Reiki books. I think it was a great character moment.

yes, R122, but she could have at least cleaned up the wound somewhat to prevent infection, at least.. She clearly had some dish towels, napkins and water! Such dumb writing.

I find Claire annoying. She's nosy, bossy and ignorant at the same time. But it really shows what dumbasses Danny and Colleen are when Claire is still undeniably the smart one in that trio!

R123 I'm not a medic, but is disinfection really a priority when you're dealing with heavy bleeding from lungs? The story continued elsewhere after she had used the (disinfected) credit card on him so we really don't know if she ended cleaning up the wound or not.

I was fine with the show up until episode 8. Episode 8 wasn't just a hot mess, it was truly terrible.

Claire is obnoxious and annoying. And a hypocritical idiot.

The writing for Claire can be iffy, but Rosario Dawson is a real actress and these series are lucky to have her. She always elevates the execution of the scenes she is in, because she is a much better actor than any of them.

She was never really nosy in DD, JJ, or LC. She seemed to kind of reluctant to get into that world in the first two, and got over it a little bit in Luke Cage, but in Iron Fist she was begging for action.

Except in episode 8, R127. Everyone was uniformly bad in that one.

The actress who plays Colleen is heads-and-shoulders above the rest, imho.

R126 Yes, it was improving steadily until it hit a wall with episode 8. The show got too ambitious and it backfired. Instead of scaling up the story, it ended exposing the clueless writing and thin budget.

Welcome to Episode 8

YOU ARE NOT GOING!

I'M GOING WITH YOU!

BECAUSE I TOOK TWO LESSONS!

No, don't go with me.

Okay, come along

My plan is to catch her and hold her

Then what?

I don't have a plan

Well don't kill her.

Okay, but I might

Okay then

And ain't it funny how China looks like New Jersey.

R132 New Jersey with Asian extras = China! lol That set and really the whole episode reminded me of those kung fu movies played in the middle of the night on tv with hilarious English voice over.

It was the Chinese guy who spoke English with an Australian accent that got me.

I've just rewatched the scene and that was an absolutely monstrous mix of Mancunian, Australian, and (faux-)Asian accent. I cringed at every single one of his lines.

I know the actor (Lewis Tan) was born in Manchester, before going to L.A. and has lived in Australia as well, but why on earth would he think incorporating [italic]all of those accents[/italic] would be a good idea? Perhaps he wanted to show off his range? He reportedly came a long way in his audition process for Danny Rand but I'm beginning to suspect that it wasn't his ethnicity that cost him the job; he's just even worse at acting than Finn Jones. It's a shame because he has a strong background in martial arts and has the build of Iron Fist from the comics.

Finally finished it.

Man, the bottom just dropped out (suddenly) in episode 8 and it never recovered. What shit. Almost nothing made any sense. At all.

What did I just watch?

What was the point of all that?

The combined effect of straight white boys who couldn't care less about quality drama [italic]and[/italic] people tuning in to see for themselves just how very bad it is. I know they're just a business but I hope Netflix listens to critics as well, not just their statisticians. We can't have dirge like this on TV anymore. We just can't.

R111, fucking preach! Their scenes were the best part about the show. Everything else sucked. Danny was horrible, an annoying stupid twat and Finn Jones can't act for shit. At least Tom Pelphrey is a decent actor.

It's not surprising r137, every Marvel Netflix show was popular and each one was more popular that the last. It's a built in audience.

After episode 8, it's one stupid twist after another, isn't it? Harold back from the dead... Bakuto and the love interest working for the Hand. The show has gone from mildly enjoyable to complete mess to wade through. Three more episode to go. Gotten this far... might as well finish it.

[quote]Another faux pas is why do they always bring severely injured people to Claire? The only thing she did was slice his chest with a stupid credit card and let the guy lay in his own pool of blood; she did not even wash his wounds out, no IV, nothing. She is totally worthless and clearly dangerous medic.

Daredevil went to her because she would keep his secret. Also he was wanted by the police as Daredevil and couldn't keep showing up as himself or people would ask questions.

Luke Cage/Jessica Jones met her at the hospital. She was also willing to help them escape, not reveal that Luke was special and again keep their secret.

The guy they brought to her on Iron Fist was a criminal. They did eventually take him to the hospital but they found out the hospital can't be trusted.

They go to Claire because she knows who they are and won't tell anyone. However, when things are really bad they always have gotten outside help or gone to a hospital. She has always been the one to suggest that.

Claire has become so damn annoying.

In fact, her character was so arrogantly strident in this show it was almost like her bullshit BernieBro crap was coming through.

I used to love her (the character and the actress) but I just can't any more. She was awful. The writing was bad as was her delivery. She was ALL OVER THE PLACE for no good reason.

Ugh.

Teaser. Returns to Netflix September 7.

Claire will not appear in this season. I see Sacha Dhawan will feature prominently and that's really all I need from this show. Just get him naked to show off that swarthy hairy bod. And give him a boyfriend while you're at it, please. That would be the perfect way to compensate for the lack of gay guys on these Marvel Netflix shows.

This season is only going to be 10 episodes. Great news.

That should lead to tighter story-telling and more money per episode.

r144 Came here to post just that. Wonderful news. They should all be 10 episodes in length. And to be honest, some of them would still be a slog even with only 8.

Forgot to add that Typhoid Mary is the new villain.

Remember when we speculated that Sigourney Weaver would be playing Mary in The Defenders? Good times.

The trailer for the new season is basically "I promise our fight scenes won't be laughably bad now!"

Did I miss the discussion of the Iron Fist's second season? Or is it really that bad and uneventful as it comes off to me (up to episode seven right now). Stakes are really low this time.