"Do you work in the legitimate theater?"

The reason o your second question is because the legitimate theater was her only bid for name recognition by the television audience. She desperately wanted to remind people there was a reason why she was on that show.

A few definitions of the 'legitimate theatre:'

The term "legitimate theater" dates back to the Licensing Act of 1737, which restricted "serious" theatre performances to the two patent theatres licensed to perform "spoken drama" after the English Restoration in 1662. Other theatres were permitted to show comedy, pantomime or melodrama, but were ranked as "illegitimate theatre."

Professional, high-quality theater, as opposed to vaudeville or burlesque.

The term used to refer to plays that rely on the spoken word to convey the message opposed to musicals, reviews, dance, opera, or concerts. An example of this is Romeo and Juliet. This is legitimate theater. Its counterpart, 'West Side Story' which is the same basic story as 'Romeo & Juliet' but with musical numbers throughout is not legitimate theater.

[quote]Also why did she always seem to first assume they had brought a Broadway star on? It was almost never an actual Broadway star.

Many of the guests were in town publicizing a new movie or were in a Broadway show. What's My Line was a good advertising vehicle. The panelists knew the current show biz news so it wasn't that hard for them to figure out the mystery guest.

so pendantic would be a good way to describe r3? No?

oops I meant r2

Bennett Cerf kind of cheated because it later came out that he would peruse the page in "Variety" that indicated which show biz people were in town "LA to NY", "NY to LA", etc. Airplane travel was much rarer and expensive in those days so "Variety" would alert people as to who was in town. Cerf was kind of a jerk since instead of letting the rest of the panel and the audience have fun with a mystery guest, he would basically cut short their appearance on the show by "guessing" them fairly fast. He and the others also kept up with what shows and movies were currently playing in Broadway first-run houses or were coming in, plus they knew who was playing in the big nightclubs in NYC at the time.

Because of Cerf's habit of guessing too quickly, they revised the play so that each panelist got one question at a time so all four had a chance to get in on the fun. Also more fun for the audience.

In Arlene's context the word 'legiitimate' is only meant to distinguish between the stage and movie theaters. Stage Musicals began to be considered a form of legitimate theater once shows like Oklahoma! came along. Arlene would have considered the cast of My Fair Lady to be working in legit theater.

R8, how do you know what Arlene would have considered legitimate? And that's not a sarcastic question; I'm genuinely curious as to the views of "legitimate" and "illegitimate" theater in those days. Thanks.

[R2] has already explained what is meant by "legit" theater, [R9]. It wasn't an opinion, it was definitions. I don't know what was in her mind for sure, but it would seem by Arlene's reactions and subsequent questions to that question that Arlene's definition was close to one of [R2]'s definitions - because that's what it means. Specifically, I think Arlene meant anything on Broadway, though, and usually had someone in mind (from the shows that I've seen)..

The legit question did make it very easy to guess any one on Broadway. Once the question of "Are you about to open or are currently in a Broadway show?" was asked, the gig was usually up, because options were so limited. Other forms of entertainment were more difficult to guess.

Thanks, R10.

It was more often Dorothy Kilgallen who was hung up on "the legitimate theater." She once embarrassed herself on the show. When she was blindfolded she told the mystery guest, a renowned British stage actress, that if she hadn't been on Broadway, then she hadn't acted in a legitimate theater. Dorothy is the one who had the syndicated "Voice of Broadway" column.

Another time, a contestant was the chief smog control officer from LA county. I don't remember if they guessed it or not, but they made some smart remarks about LA and his parting thought was "Yes, but New York has 'smug'." John Daly hurried him off. I laughed out loud, because that crowd's snobbery often showed through.

[quote] It was more often Dorothy Kilgallen who was hung up on "the legitimate theater."

I defy you to find me one episode where she ever used that phrase. It was always Arlene Francis who used it.

There's a nasty fight erupting over Dorothy Kilgallen and Arlene Francis. It could easily get out of hand and this is why I'm for gun control.

The Kilgallen/Francis Queens Feud has been raging for SIX decades now!!!

Is everyone on Datalounge 80 years old?

[R6] I think you may be mistaken about Cerf revealing them to soon. If you check YouTube, someone has posted the audio of an interview with Cerf where he talks about the Dahl-Cerf vs Kilgallen feud and how they and the producers would get mad at Dorothy for guessing them to soon. He is quoted as saying something like "We always said, 'Dorothy, give them more time! Don't try too hard! Let them enjoy it for a few minutes.'"

Regarding the influence of the show, yesterday's New York Post story about Kilgallen, "The Reporter Who Knew Too Much", said it drew 25 million viewers every week. Huge numbers for even a show today.

I knew it was one of them that guessed too soon and thus a rule change

[quote]Is everyone on Datalounge 80 years old?

No, dear sweet [R16], but some of us have curiosity about things that happened before we were born. A lot of "What's My Line?" is available on youtube, and some of us (gasp!) actually read about the history of entertainment.

Love WML but it always shocks me how in the early years of the show, the Mystery Guest would leave as soon as they were revealed. They weren't allowed or expected to plug anything. It almost seems rude now. There was also the rather consistent awkwardness of a TV star appearing and the panel condescending their ignorance of the guest's fame. See Gale Storm, Anne Jeffreys and Robert Sterling, for examples.

r17, who is the Dahl you refer to? Arlene? I remember she had quite a catty scuffle with Dorothy when she appeared on the show. And then Dorothy memorably had a scuffle with Julie London while she was still blind-folded and didn't even know who she was meowing at.

I once watched the entire run, via Tivo, when GSN had it on at 1am in the morning. This was about 13 years ago now. The show is utterly fascinating on so many levels. You see history before your eyes. Eleanor Roosevelt, Muhammad Ali, Liberace (who got the biggest applause of anyone anywhere ever), Louis Armstrong, Salvadore Dahl, and on and on.

Also, it was cool watching the manners and the protocol from that era. When a person would greet the panel, after their segment, the gentlemen would stand up and shake their hands, while the women would remain seated. This only changed when the person was and elderly man or someone like Eleanor Roosevelt, then, of course, everyone would stand.

The fashions and interesting too. And, through the run, you start getting snide comments about rock and roll, until the early 60's when the panel seems to grudgingly accept it.

John Daly is very sad to me. In the episodes from 1950 he's effervescent and bubbly. Toward the mid-60s, and particularly after the death of Dolly Mae Kilgallen, he seems fairly miserable and to be phoning it in. It seemed to happen around the time of his divorce.

Anyway, peek into a more glamorous, gentle era. Unless, I suppose, you were anything other than white.

[quote]Salvadore Dahl

Arlene's father?

OP, your comment about "sneaking in burlesque stars" is hilarious!

And R20, having enjoyed many "WML" clips on YouTube, I also noticed some condescension on the panel toward certain TV stars, including sweet Gale Storm.

Let's return to the battle between the two TOQs over the meaning of "legitimate theatre". That was a true DL moment.

I thought Francis' catch phrase was "Are you in show business?"

[quote]The fashions and interesting too.

I'm always struck by how gorgeous the early 1960s fashions are compared to the 1950s ...and how all of the women suddenly looked 10 years younger.

"Do you make 'jukebox' records?"

It wasn't a compliment.

It is ironic/self-delusional that they snubbed TV celebrities when they were one and the same.

[quote]It is ironic/self-delusional that they snubbed TV celebrities when they were one and the same.

Except they really weren't. Perhaps Arlene... but she probably considered herself a stage actress first and foremost.

During the run of the show Killgallen and Cerf had successful day jobs. TV certainly helped their careers but they could have done without.

Not Bennett, r29! He LOVED being a TV star, loved the fame and recognition and he always readily admitted it. There's no way he would have been known to the general public without WML. I read somewhere that he divorced his first wife Sylvia Sidney in the 1930s after just a few years because he was so jealous of the constant attention she would get when they were out in public.

Also, he often plugged the books Random House was publishing and he appeared in magazine ads hawking various products. He may not have made a huge salary as a panelist, but considering it only took an hour out of his schedule each week, it was well worth it.

I don't have the link but look on line for an audio of an oral history interview he did in his last years. He's very forthcoming about it all, including his less than love for Dorothy.

And, I'd like to add, that snobbery towards TV stars as Mystery Guests pretty much disappeared by the mid-1950s when television clearly became a national pastime.

Dorothy Kilgallen had a better mask..hers was black with a pearl trim. Arlene Francis had this tacky white satin number.

I also used to like when she'd ask, "Do you practice jiu jitsiu?"

r31, you've confused the masks.

Dorothy's looked like a satin brassiere; Arlene's was chic black with the pearl trim. I'm always amused by how frantically they'd have to fluff up their hair and false eyelashes when they removed their masks.

You're RIGHT!! I just looked at some you tube clips and it was Arlene who got the better mask! I liked Dorothy Kilgallen a lot better as a child, so I guess it was just wishful thinking on my part. I stand corrected.

"Are you a glamour girl?"

One of the best things for me about WML is seeing stars like Elizabeth Taylor, Ava Gardner and Robert Wagner being as funny as they actually were. They never got a chance to behave as silly and uninhibited on camera OR in front of the public except on WML and you understand what was so appealing about them to their colleagues besides their beauty.

I actually find Steve Allen kind of sexy in a nerdy way in his early years as a WML panelist.

I would imagine Arlene perhaps meant that the legitimate theatre was Broadway. But here's a question: Was off-Broadway considered legitimate?

On another note, when the term 'legitimate theatre' was first used in England in 1692, it meant the spoken word primarily drama versus any kind of comedy or musical. However, by the early 1960s, I'm sure that Arlene Francis considered the musical 'West Side Story' legitimate theatre.

Also, Arlene was likely being a bit pretentious in her use of the term 'legitimate theatre.' If she really wanted to speak a bit more like the common folk or viewing audience, she might have asked the guest if they were better known for 'stage or screen.'

I barely remember the tail end of the 1970s era, with Wally Bruner and then Larry Blyden as the hosts and panelist Dana Valery, the Rula Lenska of her day.

Do not compare WML's 1970s run with the original (in spite of dear Arlene's presence)!!

Probably most people reading this thread already know this, but there is a quite active Facebook page for WML fans with 1000s of members. And as one might well imagine, some of those fans are very serious about the program.

I guess I first watched the show in its last years in the mid-60s when my parents would let me stay up late on Sunday. I've loved watching all the episodes again on youtube and I'm so happy to find out there are so many old and new fans. I thought I was all alone!

R37, Arlene could not ask "stage or screen." It has to.be a yes or no question. Also, the"stage" includes dog acts, magicians, and strippers as well as the "legitimate theatah."

R38, you literally made me laugh out loud by comparing Dana Valery to Rula Lenska. I never knew who Valery was back then, either!

Between OP's burlesque crack and a Dana Valery dig, this thread is a hoot! (And no, I'm not 80 years old!)

I've never seen WML on TV--only on youtube.

I'm not over 80; I'm in my 40s.

Threads like this are why I keep coming back to Datalounge.

Dana Valery is an Italian singer who is the sister of the late Sergio Franchi. She was hot for a couple of seconds in the late '60s and had a decent voice. She gave up singing to become an alternative healer.

WHAT'S MY LINE is one of the many game shows currently being shown on the Buzzr channel WWOR in NYC.

The title of this thread triggered memories of the sleazy porn theaters to be found all over New York. Some had live sex (gay or straight) shows, back rooms. Topless bars were easy to find that had cheap drinks. Sex was forbidden then yet everywhere. Today no one bats and eye but it doesn't exist like it used to.

"Legitimate stage" means plays performed in a theater. Off-Broadway counts as the 'legitimate stage' if one is referring to an off-Broadway play performed in an off-Broadway theater.

Not night clubs. Not supper clubs. Not burlesque. Not a circus. Not an ice show. Not television.

From 1972: Mystery Guest Patty Duke, with panelists Soupy Sales, Sherrye Henry in the Dana Valery slot, Gene Shalit, and Arlene Francis.

From 1973: Mystery Guest Rocky Graziano, with panelists Soupy Sales, opera singer Joanna Simon (Carly's sister), actor Leonard Harris (Senator Palatine from [italic]Taxi Driver[/italic]), and Miss Francis If You're Nasty.

Dana Valery was never hot, not even for a few seconds. She was the 1970s epitome of DL's Stop Trying to Make So and So Happen.

[quote]However, by the early 1960s, I'm sure that Arlene Francis considered the musical 'West Side Story' legitimate theatre.

Possibly not. When West Side Story first came out, it shocked people. A musical about gang warfare? A musical where a woman almost gets raped? A musical where police are mocked? It just wasn't done.

I don't know. I've always heard that "legitimate theater" meant straight plays, not musicals, well into the 1960s.

Maybe she was just being "sassy"? That's what I think.

R46 I'm pretty sure Jack Wrangler was never a mystery guest.

[R46] Ah, Sergio Franchi. Met him in the 1970s when he was at the peak of his fame in the USA. Now that was a man to watch cross a hotel lobby.

Thanks, R48, that was fun.

Sergio Franchi and Joan Rivers in Vegas!

Mystery Guest Greer Garson DEFINITELY worked in the Legitimate The-a-TUH.

[quote] OP, your comment about "sneaking in burlesque stars" is hilarious!

[quote] Threads like this are why I keep coming back to Datalounge.

I can't take credit for either. I found a thread from a few years back that is now closed and had relatively few replies. I thought it was a topic that deserved more attention and replies and seemed very DL, so I copied it verbatim. I have only seen snippets of WML.

OP of the original thread, I hope you're still around and can appreciate that this thread has received a good response. It's yours.

Had to do a YouTube search on Dana Valery; no "WML" appearances as far as I could tell, but she is at the bottom of the bill on this "Hollywood Palace" episode (behind Sammy Davis Jr., Mama Cass, Peter Lawford (croaking "Aquarius"), The Dells and Lionel Hampton!

Here's four gay new ideas for all of my legitimate fans!

I just caught a WML episode where Phil Silvers was the Mystery Guest. (He signed in as "Sgt Bilko" and came in his uniform costume.)

It was obvious that Bennett knew who it was almost at once - he asked "Are you someone who should have been a Mystery Guest long ago" with a grin. And when Arlene was getting too close, Bennett said "Give him time. Don't answer too quickly!"

When they did guess him, it turned out that he knew all 4 (Fred Allen was on that night) very, very well and that Cerf was constantly telling him that he should have been on long ago. Silvers did get a chance to tell a few jokes and stories (Daly didn't have a chance of stopping him.) Silvers seemed to be enjoying his TV success, after what had probably been a long career.

R27, I noticed the questions about "jukebox records" in the "WML" YouTube clips with Julie London and the adorable Julius LaRosa. There did seem to be some snobbery at work.

It broke my heart when her trademark diamond heart pendant and necklace was literally ripped her neck on the streets of NY in the later years of her life. It was a gift from her husband, and she offered a large reward for its return, but she never got it back.

r64 ^^^^ripped from^^^^

I'm hoping the new bio about Dorothy has lots of dish about WML in it but I'm assuming it will mostly focus on her mysterious death, which the author intends to prove was murder.

Actually, either way, I'm eager to read it. I wonder if the rediscovery of WML through youtube and these vintage game show reboots have brought more curiosity about Dorothy and her death. When Lee Israel's bio came out (was it in the 1980s?) it was fairly dismissed. But then, it wasn't very good.

Phil Silvers had one of the most recognizable voices on TV, if I recall correctly.

One night one of the contestants was a professional mask maker who had made Dorothy and Arlene's masks.

I never liked Arlene or Kitty Carlisle. What purpose did they serve?

Eye candy r69.

During the show with Lee Remick, Bennett Cerf asked her if she was blonde and starring in a musical? I assume he was thinking of Jill Haworth who had opened in CABARET the same season that Remick opened in WAIT UNTIL DARK. When it was Arlene's turn she asked "so if it is not a musical, you are starring in a legitimate play."

Arlene and Kitty seemed so elitist and condescending. And they weren't even WASPS.

Are you currently raising your voice in song in the New York area?

Just a side note, despite his on screen persona of nasty Bilko, Phil Silvers was absolutely beloved by the people he worked with. He was apparently one of the nicest, most generous people in show biz.

How I remember Sergio Franchi

This is why I like DL...bringing up names such as Dana Valery. Sergio Franchi's sister! She had a very good voice. Thank you, DL

Dana Valery Catalano made a career change later in life to become a healer. Her areas of expertise include Reiki and hypnotherapy. Her main practice is based in New York.

An evening with Dana Valery and Sergio Franchi!

Sergio Franchi, Julius LaRosa -- some handsome men mentioned on this thread!

[quote]It broke my heart when her trademark diamond heart pendant and necklace was literally ripped her neck on the streets of NY in the later years of her life.

MARY!

Mmmmm

"Have you a picture currently playing in New York?"

I think we should all return to phrasing questions in that form.

Arlene was not a pretentious snob like Dorothy was.

And for that matter, neither was Kitty.

Kitty loved being on To Tell The Truth because she looked so glam next to fat Peggy Cass

[quote] Possibly not. When West Side Story first came out, it shocked people.

Link please.

That's not my comment about West Side Story but it's totally true.

Think about it. There had never been a Broadway musical about vicious teenage gangs who killed each other on stage. And Chita Rivera was almost raped!

It was very controversial, turned off a lot of the Bridge and Tunnel audiences and tourists and wasn't as big a hit as we think of it now. It lost the Tony that year to The Music Man.

German and Japanese atrocities were uniquely cruel. I think Germany apologized, and also paid all its WWII restitution (in the 1990s). The Japanese see the war differently, and I don't think they ever apologized. They think they were provoked by the US embargo that kept Japan from importing the oil and other necessary war-making supplies that they needed, to use against China.

In addition to what r86 said, I think people at that time were still into feel good musicals, not musicals with a message which WSS was. West Side Story ran 732 performances (a respectable run). Compared that to other musicals in that time period: The Music Man ran 1375 performances, Damn Yankees ran 1,019, My Fair Lady ran 2,717, Bells Are Ringing ran 924 performances, The Sound Of Music ran 1443.

Uh, R87, what do the activities of Japan and Germany in WWII have to do with Arlene Francis and Dorothy Kilgallen (let alone Sergio Franchi and Dana Valery?!)

The Barb Streisand episode. What happened to Dorothy Kilgallen's arm?

Oops, wrong thread. Thanks, R89!

Arlene was a farter

[R77] - My God, get that poor man some buttocks....

I worked at the Persian Room at the Plaza Hotel when Sergio Franchi was performing there. Terrific singing. Years later, I did some photographs of Dana Valery and her husband. She was very nice (so was he).

Thanks for the info, R94!

But in just 4 years the film of West Side Story was a huge cultural phenomenon in the US and Europe and I'm sure many other places.

And somebody in the studio thought it was going to be a widely popular success because it opened hard ticket and even Rita Moreno said she was incredulous when she heard it was going to open that way.

Who was going to pay those prices?

The movie played first run over a year, won best picture and the soundtrack was in the homes of everyone who had the obcs of My Fair Lady and SOM.

And that was a lot of people.

[quote] That's not my comment about West Side Story but it's totally true. Think about it. There had never been a Broadway musical about vicious teenage gangs who killed each other on stage.

That's not what I asked for.

I asked for a link to back up the claim that it actually was controversial at the time--not for your reasons as to why it [italic]might[/italic] have been controversial.

R2 gave the definitive give answer: "Professional, high-quality theater, as opposed to vaudeville or burlesque."

Vaudeville and burlesque were known as "variety," and theatre was "legitimate." When Variety, the trade paper, started, it took its name from the term for vaudeville and burlesque, since that was its main focus. It had a special section for theater, which they coined as "Legit."

Ive been binge-watching WML for a couple of months. Only once or twice have I heard Arlene reference "the legitimate theatre." Usually the first question for the mystery guests is to ask if they are in show biz, or, if there have been a lot of wolf whistles, to ask if they are a beautiful young lady or a glamour girl. If there are female wolf whistles or screams, then they ask if the guest is a teen idol.

I don't get that Arlene is snobby at all about TV. She had her own daily show for much of the 1950s, so she had fully embraced TV culture. Dorothy and Bennett seem snobby a bit, but when I Love Lucy became such a cultural phenomenon, I think everyone realized TV was no poor cousin of movies anymore.

r99 check out the Gale Storm ("My Little Margie") or Anne Jeffreys and Robert Sterling ("Topper") episodes if you want to see snobbery and awkwardness of the highest order. The panel all seem disappointed and perplexed as to who these people are and why they should be expected to know them. Less so, Arlene, who was a doll.

It was indeed different when Lucy, Ann Sothern or Robert Young appeared, as they'd all been well-known in movies before landing TV series.

When the film of West Side Story came out, my mother wouldn't let little musical comedy queen me see it because the ladies at her beauty parlor told her it was about juvenile delinquents in New York who did drugs and had sex. She said she would not allow me to be exposed to such filth.

A year or two later she let me go by myself to see The Music Man six times.

I finally saw West Side Story when it was re-released in 1968 or 69.

R101 West Side Story was re-released in October of 1968.

[quote]I asked for a link to back up the claim that it actually was controversial at the time--not for your reasons as to why it might have been controversial.

You should do your own homework.

I'll also vouch for what the poster said about the show being controversial at the time. Also: there was a cultural difference between 1957 and 1961 when the film version was released. American society and sensibilities were changing rapidly.

Please read:

"When Prince and his partner Robert Griffiths took on West Side Story another producer had already walked away, fearing the material wasn't commercial."

""You know, 55 years ago West Side was an audacious project," says Prince. "People had adapted Shakespeare before but for musical comedies like Kiss Me Kate.""

"Hal Prince recalls that the original reception to West Side Story was mixed, from press and public."

""Some nights we'd have 200 walkouts from the theatre...."

"After its opening season, the show took only two Tony theatre awards, for choreography and set design. Hal Prince says what really cemented West Side's status was the 1961 movie version."

"Public taste had caught up with us: The movie swept the board at the Oscars because the style and story no longer shocked.""

Please note: "...... because the style and story no longer shocked.""

Got it now?

Was West Side Story ever considered controversial?

Did Arlene ever play Anita in Summer Stock?

Only illegitimately r105.

Kitty Carlisle had a very wide mouth.

Was West Side Story legitimate?

Kitty Carlisle Hart was a nudist. Many an UWS delivery boy got a rude shock when she answered the door.

[quote]check out the Gale Storm ("My Little Margie") or Anne Jeffreys and Robert Sterling ("Topper") episodes if you want to see snobbery and awkwardness of the highest order. The panel all seem disappointed and perplexed as to who these people are and why they should be expected to know them.

Gale Storm was on the panel once. She didn't seem to fit in at all.

[quote]The panel all seem disappointed and perplexed as to who these people are and why they should be expected to know them. Less so, Arlene, who was a doll.

Which is weird, especially in the case of Anne Jeffreys and Gale Storm. Jeffreys started in opera in NY, then head a pretty decent film career (especially a running role as Tess Trueheart in the Dick Tracy movies, and opposite Frank Sinatra in one of his musicals), and then made a history g splash on Broadway in "Street Scene" and replacing Pat Morison in Kiss Me Kate.

Gale Storm similarly had a movie career in the 40s, and was a well known pop singer. So Bennett and Dorothy had no reason to act like they didn't know them. They just made themselves look stupid (Bennett frequently looks like an idiot).

What's West Side Story?

Kitty had a huge black bush and could suck all the chrome off those big 50s bumpers.

I appreciate the explanation of "legitimate." I always wondered what the hell she meant.

Could you imagine who the panelists would be if the show were to be revived today? A sassy black comedian, an airhead blonde, a millennial pop star, and a reality show personality ( a la Frankel). UGH

Sergio Franchi replaced Raul Julia in the OBP of Nine.

Anyone else remember Enzo Stuarti, the Italian crooner and Ragu spokesman?

Betty White, Phyllis Newman and Steve Lawrence are three still alive who would appear on the original B&W series as guest panelists.

Also alive is lovely Sue Oakland who came out of nowhere but sat in for dead Dorothy on several occasions. She became a bit of a fixture on local NY news and talk programs in the 1960s.

On the WML Facebook Page are reminiscences of 3 or 4 of the surviving non-celebrity contestants of the original B&W series who are always asked if there was a party or reception for them with the panelists after the program. The answer, of course, is always NO. But there is a surviving woman contestant who was on the show on Dorothy's final night who happened to go to a nightclub after the show and witnessed Dorothy meeting a "Mystery Man" there so she's been interviewed for this new Kilgallen bio.

[quote]Could you imagine who the panelists would be if the show were to be revived today? A sassy black comedian, an airhead blonde, a millennial pop star, and a reality show personality ( a la Frankel). UGH

And the mystery guests would be minor celebrities whose names wouldn't even ring a bell for me, like the people on the cover of Us Weekly.

Even the color 1970s version of WML became what r119 said.

I believe the line is more properly:

"Are you currently appearing in the legitimate theater?"

The 1970s color version was ruined by the inclusion of Soupy Sales.

[R116] - Ciao Bambina!

I can't remember the exchange verbatim, or who the mystery guest was, but either Arlene or Bennett asked whether the guest had ever appeared on the stage and got an affirmative reply. Then Dorothy asked whether the guest had ever appeared on Broadway and the guest replied no. And Dorothy then said with icy disdain "Then you're not really an actor [or in the theater], are you?

I wonder where those eye masks with the pearls around the edges are now.

"Are we dressing for dinner?" - Arlene to her son at the airport, when he was taking her to an assisted living facility

[quote]Kitty Carlisle Hart was a nudist. Many an UWS delivery boy got a rude shock when she answered the door.

This was especially surprising since Kitty lived on East 64th Street!

[quote]I wonder where those eye masks with the pearls around the edges are now.

If there's any justice in the world, they're in the Smithsonian.

R127 There goes the neighborhood!

I can totally relate, R101. I was in 8th grade when WEST SIDE STORY came out, and my friend and I were NUTS to go see it. It was rated an A3 "adults, with reservations" by the Catholic Church at the time, so after Mass one Sunday my mother dragged us both in front of the priest and said, "If Father says you can go, then you can go see it." She stood behind us glaring daggers while the priest mumbled something or other about why we couldn't go.

Gale Storm was a pretty bad alcoholic, wasn't she? But she had had 2 successful TV series, MY LITTLE MARGIE and OH! SUSANNA! (aka THE GALE STORM SHOW), so the panel must certainly have known her. Maybe they were just snobby because of her alcoholism...?

And was Robert Q. Lewis ever on this panel, or was he just on TO TELL THE TRUTH??

Hard to say about Gale Storm's popularity on those 2 series because I don't think either one ran more than a season or two. But in the early years of TV perhaps that was still considered a success, and a single season consisted of something like 36 episodes, many more than today. And both series were in daytime reruns forever. Never heard anything of Gale being an alcoholic. She died fairly recently, I think.

My impression was that the panel begged ignorance on knowledge of some TV stars' fame because they were always off gallivanting to the theatre and night clubs every night of the week and far too busy to be at home watching sitcoms and westerns and the like.

Robert Q Lewis was often a sub for the 4th seat on the panel but he also hosted and appeared on many other Goodson/Todman game and talk shows in the 1950s. A "confirmed bachelor", he always made a big moment of panting over any remotely pretty girl, and he reads as pretty obviously gay today. He was very much of the type like Garry Moore, Fay Emerson and Arthur Godfrey: no discernible talent yet inescapable on TV screens every day.

Gale Storm died in 2009. In her autobiography, she is very candid about her struggle with alcoholism. She mentions that one of her son's friends was Diane Keaton.

In one of Diane Keaton's books, she writes that she loved "My Little Margie" growing up, and what a big fan she was of Gale Storm. Later she wrote of becoming friends with one of Storm's sons, and her excitement over the prospect of meeting her childhood favorite. I'm not sure of the details (it's been a while since I've read it, plus Keaton was vague on some details in her book) but she mentions her sadness over the discovery that "Margie" had a drinking problem.

In interviews, Storm came off as an exceptionally nice lady, and my friend who worked with her during a exhibition at a media museum adored her.

[quote]Hard to say about Gale Storm's popularity on those 2 series because I don't think either one ran more than a season or two. But in the early years of TV perhaps that was still considered a success, and a single season consisted of something like 36 episodes, many more than today.

Wow -- you are WAY off.

"My Little Margie" ran for four seasons with 126 episodes.

"Oh! Susanna!" also ran for four season with 126 episodes, and it followed "Margie" with just a one season gap in between.

So she was in starring role in a sitcom from 1952 through 1960, with just one year off in the middle. Not too many stars can say that.

Oh dear. I was way off, and I apologize. It's how I remembered it all but I was just a little kid when the shows were on TV. I should have looked it all up before yakking on. Sorry for the misinformation and thanks for setting it right, r133. and r132.

Nothing sets The DL on fire like two theater queens hissing and clawing at each other over a difference of opinion or some point of pedantry that fell out of relevance decades ago.

Love it!

MY LITTLE MARGIE was very successful. OH SUSANNA! took place on a cruise ship, and featured Zasu Pitts!! Gale Storm sang a song in virtually every episode, kind of like Ricky Nelson did in OZZIE AND HARRIET.

Zasu?

ZaSu.

There was a story (apocryphal?) about Robert Q Lewis being introduced by Arthur Godfrey somewhere, and Godfrey snapping, "And we all know what the Q stands for."

Lewis hosted a lot of game shows, but is probably best remembered as a professional "extra man" for panel shows. Storm was not only open about her drinking, but she did tv commercials for the Raleigh Hills rehab chain. Johnny Cash did ads for a rehab in Nashville.

RQL was also in the movie version of "How to Succeed," among several other '60s flicks. He also was a DJ in Los Angeles.

Interesting to see how times have changed. When Eleanor Roosevelt was on and Dorothy guessed who it was, she asked," Is it Mrs. Franklin Delano Roosevelt?" Feminists and SJW's today would have a social media orgasm to think that a woman would be identified only by who her husband was.

It was Dorothy not Arlene who usually said "legitimate theatre."

Bennett was an idiot. I watched an episode today where the lady sold elevators. And the panel didn't guess it and John Daly reveals it and says "Mrs 'so and so' not only sells elevators she has a master's degree in mechanical engineering."

And then Bennett says "Lana Turner started out in the elevator business at Marshall Fields."

And Arlene answers "Ah...She just drove one."

Gale Storm used to do tv commercials for a chain of recovery centers known as Raleigh Hills in LA. She was open about her drinking.

Johnny Cash did similar ads for place in teh Nashville area.

[quote]The Kilgallen/Francis Queens Feud has been raging for SIX decades now!!!

The Dorothy Kilgallen v. Arlene Francis feud is legendary and highly inflammatory

And if you want to pour gasoline on that fire, just put Kitty Carlisle in the mix

[quote]Is it Mrs. Franklin Delano Roosevelt?" Feminists and SJW's today would have a social media orgasm to think that a woman would be identified only by who her husband was.

That was very much the correct form of addressing a woman in those days - women accrued status from marriage and they were to be acknowledged by their husbands' names...

I can remember the complex etiquette rules for addressing women based on their marital status...

There was even arcane rules where divorced women would be addressed by a combination of their married and maiden name after a divorce to distinguish them from the new wife, and most importantly, from the the lowest caste - the spinsters who had NEVER married...

I'm not sure if I'm remembering it exactly, but it seems a married woman whose husband had remarried was to be addressed as Mrs. (Maiden Name) (Married Name) to distinguish her from the new wife while recognizing that she had formerly been married.

So the correct form of address for a divorced woman who remained single after her ex-husband remarried would be Mrs. Anderson Johnson - and the new wife would get the preferred title of Mr. Richard Johnson. But Mrs. Anderson Johnson would not have the added humiliation of being mistaken for a woman who had never married.

Recognition of a woman's given name or maiden name (or her identity apart from her husband) was not done - exact in casual, informal communication