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Laurence Olivier Sexuality

Joan Plowright quote "I have always resented the comments that it was I who was the homewrecker of Larry's marriage to Vivien Leigh. Danny Kaye was attached to Larry far earlier than I."

From Tarquin Olivier' book " Most of his paternal advice, such as it was, seems to have been about sex .' Not surprisingly, he worried that Tarquin would become gay: he insisted on urinating beside him, presumably to check appearances. Olivier also had an obsessive interest in the female genitalia and 'seeing over and over again the designs of nature which were dedicated, among other things, to the enjoyment of men.

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by Anonymousreply 225December 5, 2016 3:52 PM

[quote] Once [Guinness] described an occasion when as a very young actor he had gone to stay with Gielgud for the weekend. Olivier and his then wife, Jill Esmond, were the other house guests, and the Oliviers had decided to go back to London on the Sunday night. They offered Alec a lift which he declined, since he was not working till the following night, and he saw a look pass between the Oliviers which meant only one thing. This outraged him because, as he said, "even when one was very young and sort of pretty, John never ever so much as put a finger on one's knee".

[quote] After the Oliviers had gone, Gielgud and he had another bottle of wine, and went to their separate beds. The following night, Alec was standing in the wings as Osric, and Olivier - Hamlet - sidled up behind him and whispered into his ear: "So did Johnny put his thing up you or did you put yours up him?" Telling me this, his rage, nurtured over 50 years, almost shook him physically. "He was vulgar beyond belief," he said.

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by Anonymousreply 1November 19, 2016 2:13 PM

From Scotty Bowers "Full Service: My Adventures in Hollywood "

"GEORGE CUKOR’S HOME on Cordell Drive was a magnet for so many august and talented people. Two of them were a husband and wife who were also two of the most respected actors of their day: Laurence Olivier and Vivien Leigh. When I met them at a small dinner at George’s in the early fifties they seemed hopelessly in love (they eventually divorced in 1961 after twenty-one years of marriage).

Olivier was forty-four, sprightly, and had been knighted by King George VI three years earlier. He could quote Shakespeare and remember entire scenes from the Bard’s plays as easily as some people remember their home address or telephone number. Despite his title he insisted that everyone, including me, call him Larry, even though the first time I met him at George’s I was helping to serve dinner, not seated as a guest at the table. He was witty, articulate, at ease, and never pompous.

Larry often came to town from his native England. Even though he was married he secretly harbored a liking for boys. He never openly admitted it but, to me, it was obvious. When he was here alone he would frequently call me up and ask me to arrange for a busty blonde and a well-hung guy to make up a threesome with him. Each time I sent a couple over to his hotel room—or wherever he was staying—he would ask for a different girl but, quite often, he would request the same guy. “He was very nice,” Larry would say. “Make sure you send him over again next time.”

by Anonymousreply 2November 19, 2016 2:28 PM

"The scene was the firstclass dining car of the Brighton Belle on a summer morning in 1964, an era when it was still possible in Britain to travel by train with some degree of civilised elegance.......

"The usual, dear boy," announced the man opposite me to the hovering steward. No one needed to enquire about the identity of my table companion. He was instantly recognisable to everyone as the most celebrated actor in the world: Sir Laurence Olivier, soon to become The Right Honourable Baron Olivier of Brighton.

"I'm very sorry, Sir Laurence," stammered the steward, "but I'm afraid the kippers are off today." "Off?" The word exploded with such force and menace that the carriage fell silent. "There are no kippers?" asked the great man, his voice rising histrionically. His arms rose also, in supplication to invisible gods. "Great heavens! How can this be possible?"

Sir Laurence's outburst had immediate effect. The Brighton Belle's departure was delayed while a crisis conference took place on the platform. Porters ran panting into view. Trolleys were heaved. As if by magic, a crate of kippers materialised from thin air.

"My darling boy!" cried Olivier, pulling the startled steward into a bear-like embrace and planting a loud, smacking kiss on both his cheeks. The white-coated youth turned slightly pink but showed no other sign of thinking this at all unusual.

As the 55-minute journey to London got under way, I became uncomfortably aware that Olivier had switched his attention from the steward to myself. Every time I looked up from the morning paper, I found his eyes, dark and hypnotic, trained on my 23-yearold face like a searchlight. Not a word was spoken between us. Had it been any other man, I would have construed such intense interest as sexual. But the cinema's brooding and virile Heathcliff? The great actor who had made passionate love on screen to Marilyn Monroe? The husband of three famous actresses, and the father, in time, of four children? Surely not........

No doubts

As the story of my encounter on the Brighton Belle unfolded, a broad and delighted grin spread across Emlyn's puckish face. "We all know Larry," he guffawed. "Do I think he is sexually attracted to men?" He let out a snort of laughter. "Is the Pope Catholic?

by Anonymousreply 3November 19, 2016 2:38 PM


by Anonymousreply 4November 19, 2016 7:10 PM

I'm surprised by Joan Plowright' quote, she usually kept her mouth shut about her life with Larry.

by Anonymousreply 5November 19, 2016 8:56 PM

Scotty Bowers is a liar. He has no proof to back up anything he says. He put out a nasty book for money with a lot of lurid stories with no basis in fact. He's an evil little troll.

by Anonymousreply 6November 19, 2016 9:16 PM

One hears often the story of Danny Kaye pretending to be a customs official holding Lawrence captive one time when he arrived in the USA.

by Anonymousreply 7November 19, 2016 9:23 PM

R6 Scotty Bowers is not the only one quoted here, Read Joan Plowright' quote and R3

by Anonymousreply 8November 19, 2016 9:51 PM

Kenneth Tynan said of Olivier: "He's like a blank page and he'll be whatever you want him to be. He'll wait for you to give him a cue, and then he'll try to be that sort of person."

by Anonymousreply 9November 19, 2016 9:54 PM

David Niven said he went over to Olivier and Leigh's house one night (circa Streetcar) and no one was answering the door, so he went through their back gate. He saw Brando and Olivier making out in the pool, but they didn't notice him and he never made mention of it to Leigh.

by Anonymousreply 10November 19, 2016 9:58 PM

From Kenneth Tyanan Diaries :

"Larry adopts a passive-feminine persona when in the presence of authority, i.e. he anticipates the castration by taking on the manner of a woman–mother. I recall what Gadge Kazan once said to me: “Above everything else, Larry is a coquette.”

by Anonymousreply 11November 19, 2016 10:06 PM

ZERO onscreen chemistry with the ladies: Merle Oberon in WUTHERING HEIGHTS, Joan Fontaine in REBECCA. Aloof, mannered, cold.

Always gave off a kind of creepy vibe to me, which is why I think his best role was evil Dr Szell in MARATHON MAN. I also think Danny Kaye may have made an amusing partner. And if he got a piece of STREETCAR era Brando, more power to him.

by Anonymousreply 12November 19, 2016 10:09 PM

I think the only costar lady he had chemistry with was Vivien Leigh, Their passion was strong and genuine at least in the start of their relationship but i believe Olivier' REAL passion was his work.

by Anonymousreply 13November 19, 2016 10:16 PM


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by Anonymousreply 14November 19, 2016 10:20 PM

I think he was bisexual, but as someone above said. i think sex wasn't a priority for him , his main interest and priority was work.

by Anonymousreply 15November 19, 2016 10:44 PM


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by Anonymousreply 16November 19, 2016 10:54 PM

Olivier suggested to Kirk Douglas adding the bisexuality to his character in Spartacus :

"Olivier surprised Douglas by suggesting effeminacy and self-doubt in the haughty Roman leader - qualities the producer himself had not perceived. Perhaps the best scene in the film has Olivier suggestively telling a slave about his sexual preferences...."

by Anonymousreply 17November 19, 2016 11:00 PM

It's well known that his first marriage (to butch actress Jill Esmond) was of the lavender hue.

His earliest screen appearances (in the first half of the 1930s) are hilariously swishy.

by Anonymousreply 18November 19, 2016 11:13 PM

R6 Where's your proof that Scotty Bowers is a liar?

by Anonymousreply 19November 19, 2016 11:17 PM

The anecdote above of the Brighton Belle says more about Britain's class division of the time than it does of Olivier.

by Anonymousreply 20November 19, 2016 11:26 PM

A strong, handsome face, but those legs!!! Like a Perdue Oven Stuffer.

by Anonymousreply 21November 19, 2016 11:28 PM

OP, where is that Joan Plowright quote taken from? I'm dubious.

by Anonymousreply 22November 19, 2016 11:31 PM

August 2006, on the radio program Desert Island Discs, Plowright responded to the question of Oliver's alleged bisexuality by stating:

"If a man is touched by genius, he is not an ordinary person. He doesn't lead an ordinary life. He has extremes of behaviour which you understand and you just find a way not to be swept overboard by his demons. You kind of stand apart. You continue your own work and your absorption in the family. And those other things finally don't matter."

by Anonymousreply 23November 19, 2016 11:36 PM

Scotty Bowers' main crime is his prose style.

by Anonymousreply 24November 19, 2016 11:42 PM

R22 Not OP, But The quote is reported on Joan Plowright IMBD page

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by Anonymousreply 25November 19, 2016 11:44 PM

Danny Kaye's final girlfriend, Marlene Sorosky, reported that he told her," I've never had a homosexual experience in my life. I've never had any kind of gay relationship. I've had opportunities, but I never did anything about them."

by Anonymousreply 26November 19, 2016 11:46 PM

"Where's your proof that Scotty Bowers is a liar?"

Everyone who he says he had sex with or procured for is conveniently dead. In a review for his shitty book one reviewer stated that all of his claims were "cheerfully unsubstantiated." The scenarios he created are of the slimiest tabloid variety. He claimed to have threesomes with "Eddie and Wally", also known at the Duke and Duchess of Windsor. You believe that? If you do, you must be brain dead.

by Anonymousreply 27November 19, 2016 11:47 PM

"Everyone who he says he had sex with or procured for is conveniently dead."

Raymond Burr's ex (who is still alive) confirmed the claims he made about Burr

by Anonymousreply 28November 19, 2016 11:50 PM

From Vivien Leigh biography by Anne Edwards which first published in 1977, (It was reported that this book which was the first one on Viv had angered Larry so much, that he started to consider writing his own biography)

" Vivien had always felt able to confide in Lynn Fontanne ,to confess many of her anxieties. At this time she seemed most obsessed with the idea of Larry’s possible infidelity. Both women agreed that they would much prefer their husbands to have homosexual rather than heterosexual affairs, neither feeling able to cope with the threat to her ego that another woman would pose..."

by Anonymousreply 29November 19, 2016 11:54 PM

I can only think that saucy Lady Olivier (Joan P) was kind of delighted to expose some of Olivier's weaknesses after he died. She'd probably had enough of him by then.

by Anonymousreply 30November 20, 2016 12:01 AM

R30 Larry and Joan were separated during the last years of his life, the marriage was kept in name for the sake of appearance, she would show up with him only in social events but other than that he was left alone/abandoned with nurses . Larry is quoted by some of his friends saying " Joan expected me to die at seventy"

Joan is delighted to spread around some unfavorable things about Larry in at least 2 biographies, she approved and gave interviews for 2 biography books about Larry in which she seems intent on putting him in negative light.

by Anonymousreply 31November 20, 2016 12:15 AM

"Raymond Burr's ex (who is still alive) confirmed the claims he made about Burr."

I still don't believe it. Scotty probably sucked the guy's cock a few times in exchange for his cooperation.

by Anonymousreply 32November 20, 2016 12:18 AM

Joan Plowright probably believed that geniuses were above normal moral considerations when she married Olivier, but that sort of thing can't last. Even the dimmest people eventually realize that the person they thought was a genius and a force of nature is a selfish jerk to the people around him.

As for Bowers... I challenge his idiot supporters (or Bowers himself) to prove anything he said! Really, prove that he had a single sexual encounter with a now-dead celebrity, and then, prove another. Prove he ever provided Olivier with boys and girls.

by Anonymousreply 33November 20, 2016 12:25 AM

[quote]"Eddie and Wally", also known at the Duke and Duchess of Windsor. You believe that? If you do, you must be brain dead.


Discounting the fact that the Duke of Windsor's name was David, a couple like the Windsors would never have even glanced in his direction.

by Anonymousreply 34November 20, 2016 12:26 AM

r33 Oh, take your meds and go to bed, Tarquin!

by Anonymousreply 35November 20, 2016 12:30 AM

Tarquin Olivier acknowledging his mother' lesbianism and denying his father alleged homosexual affairs :

"He is far more relaxed and less defensive about the subject of his mother’s sexuality. Through the years it has been intimated that even before Olivier met Vivien Leigh, his marriage to Jill was undermined by her bisexuality. In his 1991 biography of Olivier, Donald Spoto wrote of Jill: “She led a quiet, independent life among a coterie of lesbian producers, agents, writers and actresses.” Tarquin says: “A rather suspect French woman called Ninette lived with her, whom nobody liked. And from the age of 50, my mother lived with a very boring woman. I don’t know if they actually had a tumble or not. I don’t really mind.”

He does, however, appear to mind considerably about Spoto’s allegations that his father had a homosexual liaison with the American comedian, Danny Kaye, insisting: “That is absolute rubbish. If it had been true, Vivien would have been the first to spread it around after Larry left her. Larry wasn’t shy or inhibited with his close friends. Derek Grainger, his official biographer, told me he had asked Larry if he had ever had a homosexual experience. He said he hadn’t, and then asked, ‘What have I missed?’ Derek replied, ‘Frankly, darling, not much.’ I think if he’d had homosexual experiences, he would have told me quite openly. He confided in me and he trusted me.”

by Anonymousreply 36November 20, 2016 12:33 AM


by Anonymousreply 37November 20, 2016 12:36 AM

Very queeny and mannered on screen. Never understood the appeal - especially as Heathcliff.

by Anonymousreply 38November 20, 2016 12:37 AM

Around 2005 Olivier By Terry Coleman was published: At various points in the text, and in a separate coda titled "The Androgynous Actor," Mr. Coleman disputes Mr. Spoto's assertions that Olivier was promiscuously bisexual and, sifting through the evidence, carefully dismantles his claim that Olivier had a sexual relationship with Danny Kaye. Mr. Coleman does maintain that Olivier indulged in one or more same-sex affairs as a young man, notably with an actor named Henry Ainley. He quotes at length from an impassioned letter from Ainley to Olivier, one of 15. "Nine of the letters are explicitly homosexual," he writes.

Meh, I still think he slept with Kaye.

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by Anonymousreply 39November 20, 2016 12:46 AM

From Laurence Olivier biography book (1988):

Speaking about Vivien infampus breakdown in 1953 :

"Paramount proved more understanding than the couple had any right to expect, agreeing that Olivier must get Vivien back home as quickly as possible, and hiring twenty-one-year-old Elizabeth Taylor to take over her role in the film. Vivien was heavily sedated and carried aboard a New York flight by stretcher, Olivier and Cecil Tennant standing guard. 'Careful with those flash bulbs. She's a very sick woman,' Olivier snapped at photographers, before taking an emotional leave of Niven.

At New York they were again met by Danny Kaye, whose reunion with Olivier grew so intense that Vivien - by now able to smile sweetly at the photographers - had a jealous relapse. 7 Her sedation having worn off, she noisily refused to board the flight to London. Kaye made himself scarce, but still she struggled. So Olivier had to arrange for them to be driven across the tarmac to the aircraft steps, where before astonished passengers and crew he and Tennant physically dragged Vivien out of the limousine and on to the plane..."

by Anonymousreply 40November 20, 2016 12:47 AM

Leaving the sexuality thing aside, I don't know why Olivier generally gets bad rap, he had flaws of course like anyone else but compared to most movie stars, he was a very decent human being.

by Anonymousreply 41November 20, 2016 1:08 AM


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by Anonymousreply 42November 20, 2016 1:13 AM


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by Anonymousreply 43November 20, 2016 1:20 AM

[quote] Discounting the fact that the Duke of Windsor's name was David,

The Duke of Windsor's name was Edward Albert Christian George Andrew Patrick David.

It is true his family and close friends called him David, but he also used Edward--as for example his regnal name of Edward VIII.

by Anonymousreply 44November 20, 2016 1:28 AM

R43 That proves they had a foursome, I mean fivesome!

by Anonymousreply 45November 20, 2016 1:28 AM

R27 does not make a good case for Scotty Bowers being a constant liar, but she does provide an interesting thread of thought that Scotty Bowers was the Sexual Trick of Death.

by Anonymousreply 46November 20, 2016 2:15 AM

"R27, does not make a good case for Scotty Bowers being a constant liar, but she does provide an interesting thread of thought that Scotty Bowers was the Sexual Trick of Death."

You mean you actually BELIEVE the shit he says? You must also think Darwin Porter speaks the gospel truth.

by Anonymousreply 47November 20, 2016 2:41 AM

If you believe Scotty Bowers (and I don't) everybody in Hollywood wanted to fuck him, male and female. And everybody in Hollywood wanted him to procure for him, male or female. One critic said this:

One thing that might make the book feel slightly inauthentic is that Bowers's outlook on sex appears to be matched in kind by just about everyone he encounters. After a while, it seems like he fucks everyone he meets, whether it's the Duke of Windsor ("He sucked me off like a pro.") or Spencer Tracy, and it seems as if absolutely everyone who's anyone has no hang-ups about approaching him to set them up with young flesh. You think the sexual revolution began in the '60s? Not to hear Bowers tell it—at times, this book reads as a sort of argument that it started a few decades earlier, possibly with Scotty himself.

He fucks people so easily that when telling some non-sexual gossip about Rita Hayworth, Scotty actually says, and I quote, "we never had the chance to go to bed together," as if their lack of physical intimacy was dictated only by scheduling.

by Anonymousreply 48November 20, 2016 2:49 AM

Gore Vidal romped with Bowers in Hollywood and knew the scene well himself. He swore Bowers was the real deal and if one has read the book Bowers actually gives more attention to setting up others rather than to his own sexual encounters. Yes, I believe he exaggerates at times but what autobios don't?

by Anonymousreply 49November 20, 2016 3:26 AM

Gore Vidal did not "swear that Bowers was the real deal." He merely said he'd never heard his fuck buddy (I assume Bowers sucked his cock in gratitude for his support) caught in a lie. Which doesn't mean that Bowers isn't a liar; it just means that his buddy Gore doesn't really have any knowledge of him lying.

For anyone interested, there's a blog called The Daily Mirror that reveals Bower's memoir to be a work of practically all fiction. Here's an excerpt from ‘Full Service’: Fun With Fact-Checking, Part 1:

Page IX, we find this little bon mot: “A few decades ago, my good buddy Tennessee Williams began writing his own account of my life but before it saw the light of day I told him to destroy it.”

Oh really?

Alas, “Full Service” isn’t indexed, but Amazon’s “look inside” feature shows that an account of Williams’ purported biography of Bowers appears on Page 251-253. Because there’s no date to peg the incident, let’s put it aside for the moment and do a little digging – in the finding aid for Tennessee Williams’ papers at Columbia University – just to see if maybe there’s a little tidbit about his “good buddy.” I suppose you would be surprised if I said there’s not a word about Bowers. Why look at this! Williams saved his address books and datebooks. Too bad they’re at Columbia, it might be fun to dig.

And look at this: A catalog of 11 linear feet of Williams’ works. Don’t see anything about a Bowers biography, though.

Gosh, the first paragraph and we’re already in trouble.

Stay tuned for more…

by Anonymousreply 50November 20, 2016 3:47 AM

The point is, R44 as you know, is that nobody ever called him Eddy or even Edward. Especially anyone in bed with him no doubt. So anyone referring to the Duke of Windsor as "Eddy" almost certainly never even spoke to him let alone slept with him.

by Anonymousreply 51November 20, 2016 3:52 AM

Laurence Olivier is always hard for me to warm up to because he seems entirely humorless aside from being a pervy hot mess.

by Anonymousreply 52November 20, 2016 4:13 AM

.colin firth reminds me of Olivier.

by Anonymousreply 53November 20, 2016 4:27 AM

I actually think Olivier's best screen role was the anti-Szell, the fictional Eli Wiesenthal standin in "The Boys from Brazil." I think he was nominated for an Oscar for it.

by Anonymousreply 54November 20, 2016 4:37 AM

Noel Coward on Olivier : “At the age of 23, Larry was the most staggeringly beautiful creature I ever saw in my life, but although he was struggling to be what he thought of as ‘normal,’ he had a puppy-like acquiescence to all experiences.”

by Anonymousreply 55November 20, 2016 11:12 AM

Larry Olivier was the most selfless man when it came to one person called Vivien Leigh. She tortured him with her affairs, cruel treatment but he remained loyal to her till the end even after finally leaving her for good to save himself. i will never understand why he was so spineless when it came to Vivien!

by Anonymousreply 56November 20, 2016 11:23 AM

No mention of Olivier appearing in the highly homophobic play "The Green Bay Tree"?

by Anonymousreply 57November 20, 2016 11:25 AM

Olivier had lots of affairs with women too - I suppose he had all that energy - Sarah Miles is on record on their long on-off relationship, after his marriage to Joan. Other co-stars he slept with include Claire Bloom and Dorothy Tutin.

by Anonymousreply 58November 20, 2016 11:47 AM

From Olivier book by Terry Coleman :

"Devoted to his new family as he plainly was, Olivier had begun an on-and-off affair with Sarah Miles, whom he had met during the filming of Term of Trial 'in late 1961 and early 1962. He played the part of a schoolmaster and she that of a schoolgirl whom he was falsely accused of seducing on a trip to Paris. The first ten weeks of shooting were in studios near Dublin, and then there were two weeks in Paris, during which Olivier asked her, "Will you lay with me?" She would. She was eighteen. Later they used to meet in a studio apartment he had taken near the Old Vic. which she recalled as a grim pad with no hot water. He asked her to call him Lionel Kerr, a variation on the old Andrew Kerr he had used with Vivien. He said the Lionel was for Lionheart. She later said she thought of him as a grand amour but never planned to break up his marriage.

Joan, for her part, remembered that Sarah used to write offering herself to Olivier "tied to bedposts or whatever." and that they read her letters over breakfast. Sarah Miles denied making any such offers, saying that she, like Olivier, was not kinky but romantic. 22 Sarah Miles was in the National Theatre company in 1963 but left suddenly in March 1965 after Noel Coward breezed into Olivier's dressing room one day and found her sitting on his lap. She married the playwright Robert Bolt in 1967 and later wrote three books of memoirs, one of which she dedicated to Lionel Kerr.."

by Anonymousreply 59November 20, 2016 12:26 PM

R56 I agree with you, Also Olivier only started having random affairs with his costars after Vivien declaring she didn't love him anymore and they were like brother and sister.

From Olivier autobiography "Confession of an actor"

"I know we were sitting at the table in the small winter-garden of a porch at Durham Cottage and that it was daylight. It came like a bolt from the blue, like a drop of water, I almost thought my ears had deceived me: "I don't love you any more." I must have looked as stricken as I felt, for she went on, "There's no one else or anything like that, I mean I still love you but in a different way, sort of, well, like a brother"; she actually used those words. I felt as if I had been told that I had been condemned to death . . .

Some while later a close friend said that I should have kicked her out, or upped and outed myself; that I should never have endured in silence such humiliation apparently for the sake of appearances. The fact was I couldn't move; it would be some time before I could entirely take it in, grasp it,or wholly believe it. My recent knighthood, bestowed just before I set out for Australia, was sacred to me too; I just could not bring myself to offer people such crude disillusionment. I could only keep it bottled up in myself and, as Vivien had suggested, carry on as if nothing had happened. Brother and sister; ho, hum.

Somewhat to my surprise, occasional acts of incest were not discouraged. I supposed I would learn to endure this coldly strange life, so long as I never looked to be happy again..."

by Anonymousreply 60November 20, 2016 12:36 PM

Poor "Lionel." Such a dramatic, queeny dork.

by Anonymousreply 61November 20, 2016 1:37 PM

I just looked up Sarah Miles on Wikipedia. She drinks her own pee for health....

by Anonymousreply 62November 20, 2016 2:25 PM

"Don’t see anything about a Bowers biography, though."

Well, he WAS mentioned in George Cukor's papers

by Anonymousreply 63November 20, 2016 2:46 PM

I would believe Scotty Bowers over Donald Spoto, who not only doesn't fact check the rumors he reports but sometimes flat-out makes shit up if he thinks it makes a better story.

It's possible that Olivier and Kaye were both too old for each other to actually want to fuck, and just had a flirty friendship.

by Anonymousreply 64November 20, 2016 2:58 PM

r64, that's always been my take on the Kaye/Olivier relationship, too. They brought out a collegial campiness in each other and just had a lot of fun being together, which probably brought more anger and jealousy to Vivien Leigh, who was infamously lacking a sense of humor, than any kind of sexual dalliance could have done.

by Anonymousreply 65November 20, 2016 4:29 PM

I mean if Larry wanted to fuck/get fucked by men, he certainly could have hooked up with sexier guys than Danny Kaye.

by Anonymousreply 66November 20, 2016 4:30 PM

Ralph Richardson must have been the only totally straight one of the great British actors. Gielgud was gay, Michael Redgrave was bi and seemingly into bondage, Alec Guinness was also a secret bisexual, as was Emlyn Williams, so Olivier is in good company. Thank goodness today's greats can be more open - like Ian McKellen, Anthony Sher, Derek Jacobi, Simon Russell Beale, and the youngers Russell Tovey, Ben Whishaw, Andrew Scott etc.

Dirk Bogarde of course was the great gay Brit movie star - all his contemporaries (Kenneth More, Richard Todd, Jack Hawkins, John Mills) seem to have been totally straight, though there have been rumours about Peter Finch who not only romanced/fucked Vivien and Shirley Bassey, but also played gay twice (Trial of Oscar Wilde, Sunday Bloody Sunday).

by Anonymousreply 67November 20, 2016 4:49 PM

Paul Scofield and Richard Burton were straight too.

by Anonymousreply 68November 20, 2016 4:57 PM

Didn't Burton publicly admit to a homosexual dalliance when he was young?

by Anonymousreply 69November 20, 2016 5:31 PM

Sarah Miles On Olivier :

"Sarah was 19 and making her screen debut in Terms of Trial opposite Olivier .Larry, recently married to wife number three, Plowright, was, according to observers, disentangling himself from an affair with Simone Signoret via an affair with the very young Miss Miles. "He was very indiscreet at the end, but he was a lovely guy. You know, they don't make them like that any more. He was a very, very troubled man. He hadn't really found his soul."

And was that what he was trying to use you for? "Yes, I think a lot of men come to me to find their souls," she says wistfully.

Was Sir Larry a better lover for his bi-sexuality? (Olivier had a "puppy-like acquiescence to all experiences', remarked Noël Coward, who once walked in on Miles with Olivier in Hay Fever at the National Theatre. ("Coward never forgave me. I didn't realise quite how in love with Larry he was," Sarah said.)

Was the great star of Wuthering Heights and Rebecca as theatrical in bed as he was on screen and stage? "That doesn't matter. With me, it is certainly not to do with love-making. It is much deeper. Sex is too peripheral," Sarah says

by Anonymousreply 70November 20, 2016 5:49 PM

Laurence Olivier - Home Movies

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by Anonymousreply 71November 20, 2016 6:20 PM

young Laurence Olivier...He looked so different!

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by Anonymousreply 72November 20, 2016 6:22 PM

His clothes and look seem so modern! It's hard to imagine this was in 1930!

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by Anonymousreply 73November 20, 2016 6:25 PM

Burton supposedly raped Eddie Fisher when Eddie confronted him about the affair with Liz.

by Anonymousreply 74November 20, 2016 6:28 PM

Is it just me or do the quotes at R70 make Sarah Miles sound like a pretentious twat?

by Anonymousreply 75November 20, 2016 6:36 PM

R74 I think Burton threatened Fisher while being drunk and angry (he was a mean drunk), but i doubt he got through with it.

by Anonymousreply 76November 20, 2016 6:43 PM

From Olivier book by Terry Coleman :

"His close friend Denys Blakelock was later known to be homosexual, and his affection for the young Olivier is plain. They were often together. Olivier returned this affection, but it may, at least at first, have been no more than an idea colored by incense. Later on, Blakelock took to writing books that made much of his early friendship with Olivier, who even wrote a short preface to one. But Blakelock complained that Olivier did not even acknowledge that he had received the inscribed copy of the last book, which he sent him when it was published in 1967. Perhaps this trading on an early friendship had by then become tedious.

But when there was no response Blakelock did remonstrate with Olivier, fearing he may have "done the wrong thing" but saying he had written about him "with the utmost discretion." There was something to be discreet about...."

by Anonymousreply 77November 20, 2016 7:13 PM

I think Olivier' early sexual relationships/encounters were homosexual, (His first wife Jill was a lesbian so it didn't count as a hetero relationship) I believe Vivien most probably was the first woman to wake his heterosexual feelings and have a real relationship with.

by Anonymousreply 78November 20, 2016 8:02 PM

[quote]I mean if Larry wanted to fuck/get fucked by men, he certainly could have hooked up with sexier guys than Danny Kaye.

It was all about that huge Jewish dick, darling.

by Anonymousreply 79November 20, 2016 8:51 PM

from Darwin Porter's column after Liz' death:

[quote]the rape of her then-husband Eddie Fisher by a jealous Burton who wanted to show the singer who was the man

by Anonymousreply 80November 20, 2016 9:06 PM

from Porter's book (not column, sorry)

[quote]But the story of Burton’s encounter with Eddie Fisher is most shocking.

Amid a drunken row over Taylor, Burton allegedly told singer Fisher: “You can take it willingly, like a man, or else. Either way, you’re going to get it. Your choice.”

Taylor’s PA Dick Hanley told the authors that Fisher looked like “an abused, defeated man who might surrender to anything”. He claimed the men spent two hours upstairs before Burton re-emerged.

He then returned to Taylor, who was sleeping at a friend’s apartment, and bragged about what he’d done.

by Anonymousreply 81November 20, 2016 9:09 PM

I suppose you could say that Olivier fucked his way into a theatrical career!

He was a struggling actor until he met playwright and theater star Noel Coward, who fell in love with him and who cast him in a second-lead role in his huge hit "Private Lives" in 1930. That was his first significant role, after that he began to get leading roles and to be taken seriously by the critics. I don't know how long he and Coward were lovers, perhaps it was for much of the 1930s, but they stayed friends for life and Coward became friends with Vivian as well, the famous couple frequently stayed at Coward's tax haven home in Jamaica (as did Danny Kaye). And someone above said that Coward stayed in love with Olivier, or adored him for decades.

I think Olivier had at least a touch of ambitiosexuality.

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by Anonymousreply 82November 20, 2016 9:30 PM

That made me sick at r81.

Burton was fucked up.

by Anonymousreply 83November 20, 2016 9:37 PM

Larry could drive one mad. And I'm not whistling Dixie.

by Anonymousreply 84November 20, 2016 9:46 PM

Another part from Olivier book by Terry Coleman :

"Olivier's pet devil showed itself. He told a colleague about it thirty years later. This colleague, being homosexual, was naturally curious about Noel Coward, and after many drinks said come on; there must have been something. To which Olivier replied that he had known about Coward's attraction to him but had said No, thank you. He said the closest he ever got to that sort of thing was the night before his wedding to Jill, when his best man, Denys Blakelock, climbed into his bed. Blakelock's hands strayed. Olivier decided he couldn't do it, and that was that. That Olivier should have given this account does not make it the gospel truth, particularly after so many years......"

by Anonymousreply 85November 20, 2016 10:20 PM

Ha - when I read r74, I knew immediately that his source must have been Darwin Porter. You can smell his brand of bs from miles away.

by Anonymousreply 86November 20, 2016 10:24 PM

Another part from the book:

There is no doubt that as a young man Olivier worried a great deal about the idea of homosexuality, which seems to have been entangled with his doubts about religion. Fifty years later, when he was writing Confessions of an Actor m 1980-82, Olivier wrote an involved passage on homosexuality. He did not need to do this but obviously wanted to. It was a passage that he worked and reworked as he wrote. In the three typescripts of his autobiography, now at the British Library, there are 157 pages typed by himself; this is evidently the typescript from which the book as it was published was adapted. In the original the passage is longer and more strongly worded. Where he deleted words or sentences or replaced them with a weaker version, the words appear here in italics:

"I had got over like a spendthrift sigh my so nearly passionate involvement with the one male for whom some sexual dalliance had not been loathsome to contemplate....... It must be exceedingly difficult to believe that with my history of the pampered choir-boy ... in truth the homosexual act was [in the book, "would be"] darkly destructive to my soul, and that I was firm in my conviction that heterosexuality was romantically beautiful, promoting of justice, dissolving in pleasure, rewarding in contentment. It is surprising that this faith should withstand an onslaught of such passionate interest that had come upon me, or that this, in conspiracy with the disillusionment presented by the initial experiences of my early life did not combine to throw me off course or even stagger me on it [in the book, "make me waver"]— well perhaps I must admit I did go that far [in the book, "do that"]. Perhaps there existed in my subconscious a strong suspicion that that element was all my fault. "

by Anonymousreply 87November 20, 2016 10:24 PM

Olivier on Noel Coward:

"Later, in 1984, when Olivier was talking to Gawn Grainger, the friend who ghosted his second book, On Acting, he spoke again about Coward, in a manner in which he both suggested and denied any such relationship.

"[Coward] was fond of me anyhow, and he was very fond of me as an actor. And he realised that my acting was more important to me than having an affair with him. And he sort of understood that, because I wouldn't fall for those plays at all. Simply refused. And Noel could be pretty persuasive ... I had a great love for him, but not of the right kind that suited him. Because I never went that way. And if you didn't go for Noel you were sure ablutionised from that trouble because you couldn't—Noel was very attractive and very, very, very winning . . . You know. Devas-tatingly. Almost irresistible. And I had to pull out my strongest stock of masculinity that I could find."

by Anonymousreply 88November 20, 2016 10:28 PM

Watching those early home movies of Olivier in the 1930s, well, who wouldn't have fallen in love with him? He looked like a young Greek god.

I can't think of another actor of that time who came close. Certainly not Tyrone Power or Robert Taylor, not even Cary Grant or Gary Cooper. Maybe Errol Flynn before the drinking took its toll.

And he met his match, in terms of beauty, with Vivien Leigh.

by Anonymousreply 89November 20, 2016 10:29 PM

"Pieter Rogers, who in 1958 was general manager of the Royal Court and later, from 1962, of the Chichester Festival Theatre. He was a friend of both Olivier and Vivien Leigh, and knew them well. In 1959, when their marriage had been over in any real sense for some time, he saw their distress. Vivien was appearing in Look After Lulu at the Royal Court, and he once saw Olivier coming down from her dressing room in tears, followed by a weeping Vivien. She held on to his coat and would not let go, and he unintentionally dragged her down the stairs.

Rogers is himself homosexual but firmly believes Olivier was not. He remembered Vivien Leigh telling him that Danny Kaye was a sweet man, spontaneously funny and witty, but eccentric. She told him that one morning in the early or mid-1950s, when Danny Kaye was one of the guests at a house party at Notley, she woke to find him in her bed and kicked him out. Then, two or three days later, when she was in bed with Olivier, she woke to find Danny Kaye there again, this time with the two of them; she said he was lying next to her, not to Olivier. 6 It is not certain how far she can be believed."

by Anonymousreply 90November 20, 2016 10:54 PM

"And when Olivier, as director of the National, engaged John Dexter, whose sexuality was well known, he told him, "We do not fuck the help. Get it?" Later, when Dexter did seduce a boy who was trying to get a part in As You Like It, Olivier told him: "I'll fire you right off and I'll give it to the Press why. I'll show you no mercy at all if you ever do that again."

"Against this there is the recollection of Sarah Miles, Olivier's mistress in the 1960s, that he not only named his earlier mistresses to her— fewer, she said, than you might have expected—but also told her he had been bisexual. But she says he might easily have done that to "turn her on," knowing that she had herself been bisexual as a girl. She did remember that when she was at the National in 1965 in Hay Fever, Coward was jealously furious when he came into Olivier's dressing room and found her on his lap, but this is more revealing about Coward than about Olivier and is hardly surprising."

by Anonymousreply 91November 20, 2016 11:06 PM

Michael Gambon on Olivier :

"Gambon does remember Olivier's bisexual instincts as an actor. "He walked with a sort of Western sway," says Gambon. "A very hippy walk. I remember him saying once, when we were sitting around, 'Every member of the audience, both male and female, should want to fuck you.'"

by Anonymousreply 92November 20, 2016 11:16 PM

My impression of him is that he was insufferable.

by Anonymousreply 93November 20, 2016 11:20 PM

I think I heard this from Frank Langella's incredibly bitchy, nasty books entitled "Dropped Names: Famous Men and Women As I Knew Them." He said that Olivier told him of his marriage to Vivien Leigh; she was a nymphomaniac and he was a premature ejaculator, so you can imagine how good a marriage that must have been.

Poor Vivien became more and more insane; finally Larry could bear it no more and he left her for the much plainer, but much more sane Joan Plowright. Olivier reportedly told Richard Burton after he left his wonderful wife Sybil for a life of unending chaos and excess with Elizabeth Taylor: "you're going the wrong way, my boy." He meant that going from a stable, dependable, sane woman to one who's totally self-absorbed, extremely avaricious and very high maintenance is a very bad idea. He'd done the same thing years before (leaving his wife for very beautiful but very disturbed woman) and lived to regret it.

Vivien never stopped loving Larry. But he definitely had gotten over her. His love for her wore out, like Rhett's for Scarlett.

by Anonymousreply 94November 20, 2016 11:46 PM

R94 Olivier admitted having a premature ejaculation problem in his autobiography book :

"From time to time during this anxious period of our lives, I would put a last desperate arrow into my bow and try 'fucking' our love back into existence; it was successful. My prowess, so often failing from nervous prematurity of ejaculation, had gained, through the practice given to me by my gently, kindly, patiently bestowed few love affairs, a calmly confident strength; these last-throw ventures worked as they had not done since our radiant passion had been extinguished as by a candle-snuffer in 1949. It was successful up to a point, but not to the extent that I was hoping....."

by Anonymousreply 95November 21, 2016 12:25 AM

Olivier to his ghost writer Gawn Grainger :

"As their conversations progressed, Olivier confided in Grainger, saying he had driven all his wives mad. He credited Jill with having given him the idea of first doing Richard HI, when he knew nothing about the play himself. But with her in mind he also asked Grainger, "Have you ever been married to a lesbian?" He recalled how Vivien and he, doing the two Cleos in 1951, had been "sailing, set in the galaxy," and then said, "We used to fuck three times a day until Peter Finch came along. I'm glad he's dead"

by Anonymousreply 96November 21, 2016 12:29 AM

Larry Olivier letter to Vivien Leigh, trashing his costar Jennifer Jones in Carrie movie :

""I'm doing the 'Caerey downt downt live through too much pain to get a sequence with Jennifer really being a cunt. 'I guess I don't know'— I guess she bloody well fucking doesn't know anything about anything. No soul, like we always said about them, dumb animals with human brains." Having had his ritual hack at Mr. and Mrs. David O. Selznick, he signed himself, "Your worshipping, welcoming, loving, and thinking-all-the-time Hermit-boy."

by Anonymousreply 97November 21, 2016 12:55 AM

Serious question how could Larry put up with Vivien and sink in this crazy humiliation for years before leaving her finally in 1960??

"When Vivien became manic and Olivier was exhausted, he "tacitly almost encouraged Peter Finch, anything to mop up Vivien's spare energy." She could remember him saying about his work, which mattered more to him than anything else, "It's so much easier when Puss has got someone to entertain her." At Stratford, Vivien walked around town openly holding hands with Finch. There is the famous story of the menage a trois at Avon-cliffe, of Olivier and Finch drinking in the library and of Vivien making an appearance and demanding, "Which of you is coming to bed with me tonight?"

Esmond Knight, who had known him for nearly thirty years and appeared with him in Henry V, Hamlet, and Richard HI, said there were incredible stories. "Laurence used to ring up Peter Finch at night and say 'For God's sake come round. Go up and see Vivien,' and I suppose he quietly went up to see Vivien, made love to her and then came down, and they would spend the rest of the night getting absolutely pissed together."

Olivier himself told the story, in its simplest form—"Which of you is coming to bed with me tonight?"—to Joan Plowright, his third wife. But even that humiliation did not push him over the edge. He continued to bear with Vivien.."

by Anonymousreply 98November 21, 2016 2:42 AM

From Noel Coward' diaries on Vivien Leigh :

""Vivien was in a vile temper and perfectly idiotic. Larry was bowed down with grief and despair and altogether it was a gloomy little visit. Personally I think that if Larry had turned sharply on Vivien years ago and given her a clip in the chops, he would have been spared a mint of trouble. The seat of all this misery is our old friend, feminine ego. She is, and has been, thoroughly spoiled. She also has a sharp tongue and a bad temper. This, coupled . . . with an inner certainty that she can never be as good an artist as Larry, however much she tries, has bubbled up in her and driven her on to the borderline. Fond as I am of her and sorry as I feel for her, I would like to give her a good belting, although now I fear it might push her over the edge and be far, far too late."

by Anonymousreply 99November 21, 2016 2:45 AM

He was right about Jennifer Jones.

by Anonymousreply 100November 21, 2016 3:19 AM

Coward couldn't have known about her mental illness. No doubt she was impossible but she was mentally ill with limited treatments.... a good belting is a ridiculous thing to say.

by Anonymousreply 101November 21, 2016 3:27 AM

[quote]Noel was very attractive and very, very, very winning . . . You know. Devas-tatingly. Almost irresistible. And I had to pull out my strongest stock of masculinity that I could find."


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by Anonymousreply 102November 21, 2016 10:10 AM

[quote]Vivien never stopped loving Larry. But he definitely had gotten over her. His love for her wore out, like Rhett's for Scarlett.

Didn't we read upthread that Olivier said that he was crushed when SHE told HIM that she was no longer in love with him?

Proof that all this he-said/she-said is all bullshit. None of this shit is believable.

by Anonymousreply 103November 21, 2016 10:14 AM

I should have given her a vicious face slapping.

by Anonymousreply 104November 21, 2016 10:37 AM

R98 WTF is this? How could Larry stand for this shit?! and asking his wife' lover to hurry up to fuc* her?! Olivier was a spineless idiot with no balls.

by Anonymousreply 105November 21, 2016 2:12 PM


by Anonymousreply 106November 21, 2016 2:12 PM

Larry is incredibly handsome in those home movies and yes, he does look a little like Errol Flynn.

Larry and Viv were the Brangelina of their time.

by Anonymousreply 107November 21, 2016 3:57 PM

"Certain women should be struck regularly, like gongs."

by Anonymousreply 108November 21, 2016 4:04 PM

If Darwin Porter said it happened, you know it must be true!

by Anonymousreply 109November 21, 2016 4:25 PM

He was a kept buy when he was starting out in the theater in the late 20s and early 30s.

by Anonymousreply 110November 21, 2016 4:28 PM

Burton - he-he-he RAPED me!!

by Anonymousreply 111November 21, 2016 4:38 PM

"Didn't we read upthread that Olivier said that he was crushed when SHE told HIM that she was no longer in love with him?"

That did happen. But Vivien was mad; she went through phases where she was totally off her rocker. She said and did things when she was in crazy mode that she never would have done when in control of her mental faculties and telling Olivier she didn't love him was one of them. No doubt it hurt him when she told him that, but she evidently didn't mean it. Reliable biographies of Olivier (the best one I read was by Terry Coleman) all state that she carried the torch for Olivier forever after they divorced and never got over losing him. And indeed it was Olivier who left HER. He wanted to marry Joan Plowright and he was done with her and her madness. A similar thing happened with Arthur Miller and Marilyn Monroe. Although their divorce was mutual he said things similar to what Olivier said about himself and Vivien Leigh: that in order to save himself he had cut himself away from his poor, mad wife. And Miller, like Olivier, married a stable, sane woman (the photographer Inge Morath) and stayed married to her until death did them part.

by Anonymousreply 112November 22, 2016 12:38 AM

R112 "And indeed it was Olivier who left HER. He wanted to marry Joan Plowright and he was done with her and her madness"

Olivier had done everything humanly possible to put up with his wife madness. I don't blame him one bit for leaving her, he should have done that much earlier.

by Anonymousreply 113November 22, 2016 12:56 AM

From Noel Coward diaries, at the time of Vivien breakdown in 1953 :

"On Wednesday morning I went to see Vivien in the hospital and was deeply relieved to find her calm and normal and really very sweet. She solemnly promised to be good in future and not carry on like a mad adolescent of the twenties. In the evening Larry came and told me graphically the saga of his married life during the last few years; a curiously depressing saga it was too. Apparently things have been bad and getting worse since 1948 or thereabouts. It is really discouraging to reflect how needlessly unhappy people make themselves and each other. They are now going to start afresh down at Notley, which may work or may not. I shall be surprised if it does. Attractive and enchanting women can certainly wreak havoc when they put their silly minds to it. I am sorry for him and for her. They both have so much and are so lacking in common sense."

by Anonymousreply 114November 22, 2016 12:57 AM

"They both have so much and are so lacking in common sense."

The same could have been said about Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor. Their relationship was every bit as tragic and unfortunate as the marriage of Laurence Olivier and Vivien Leigh was.

by Anonymousreply 115November 22, 2016 1:16 AM

[quote]The phallus that is malice and the anus that is heinous...

What is that from?

by Anonymousreply 116November 22, 2016 1:25 AM

I'd eat the corn out of Donald Trump's shit!

by Anonymousreply 117November 22, 2016 1:29 AM

Marlon Brando on Vivien Leigh (from Songs my mother taught me book)

"Like Blanche, she slept with almost everybody and was beginning to dissolve mentally and to fray at the ends physically. I might have given her a tumble if it hadn’t been for Larry Olivier. I’m sure he knew she was playing around, but like a lot of husbands I’ve known, he pretended not to see it, and I liked him too much to invade his chicken coop."

by Anonymousreply 118November 22, 2016 1:39 AM

Noel Coward diaries :

"After this glorious treat I went back to the house with them and observed, to my true horror, that Vivien is on the verge of another breakdown. She talked at supper wildly. She is obsessed, poor darling, by the persecutions of the Press 1 ; her voice became high and shrill and her eyes strange. This morning when she had gone to a fitting, Larry came and talked to me. He is distraught and deeply unhappy. Apparently this relapse has been on the way for some time. She has begun to lose sleep again and make scenes and invite more and more people to Notley until there is no longer any possibility of peace. Their life together is really hideous and here they are trapped by public acclaim, scrabbling about in the cold ashes of a physical passion that burnt itself out years ago. I am desperately sorry because I love them both and I am truly fearful of what may happen. ......The core of the trouble lies deeper, where, in fact, it always lies, in sex. She, exacerbated by incipient tb, needs more and more sexual satisfaction. They are eminent, successful, envied and adored, and most wretchedly unhappy."

by Anonymousreply 119November 22, 2016 1:47 AM

For R116:

Hawkins: I've got it! I've got it! The pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle; the chalice from the palace has the brew that is true! Right? Griselda: Right. But there's been a change: they broke the chalice from the palace! Hawkins: They *broke* the chalice from the palace? Griselda: And replaced it with a flagon. Hawkins: A flagon...? Griselda: With the figure of a dragon. Hawkins: Flagon with a dragon. Griselda: Right. Hawkins: But did you put the pellet with the poison in the vessel with the pestle? Griselda: No! The pellet with the poison's in the flagon with the dragon! The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true! Hawkins: The pellet with the poison's in the flagon with the dragon; the vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true. Griselda: Just remember that.

by Anonymousreply 120November 22, 2016 1:47 AM

More from Noel Coward diaries :

"Larry had been to see me privately in the afternoon and told me ghastly stories about poor Viv . The whole thing is a nightmare. It is awfully difficult to judge the true situation. Vivien, who can be so charming and gay, can also be a terrible little bitch. This I remember from way back when she suddenly attacked me with full viciousness . They are undoubtedly a curious couple. I am fond of them and desperately sorry for them."

"Last night I dined at Sardi's and went to The Entertainer. There is no doubt that Larry is a wonderful actor but I detested the play. I thought it formless, inaccurate and silly. The girl, Joan Plowright was bad, but then it's a bad part. Larry did a few minor miracles here and there, but I somehow wished he wouldn't and hadn't. It isn't a worthy enough play or part for him. We had supper afterwards at Sardi's and he came back to the flat and we gossiped. He said he couldn't really take living with Vivien any longer. This surprised me, as I thought they were safe in each other's arms again. However, we shall see. I personally don't think either of them is willing to face the contumely and publicity of a divorce."

by Anonymousreply 121November 22, 2016 12:08 PM

"I went with Vivien to the opening night of a bad farce. In the car she attacked me violently about doing Lulu in America without her and I quickly slapped her back. She is obviously in a bad way, drinking far, far too much and attacking everyone right and left. I know she is unhappy inside, but her predicament has been entirely her own fault from the first and, to me, the whole situation has now become a bore.

"Larry has left her, and I for one don't blame him; she is certainly barmy up to a point, but she has been so spoilt and pampered for so many years that the barminess becomes ugly and dull. Everyone is in a state about her, particularly Binkie and those who really love her. I am very fond of her, but I am beginning to lose interest in the drama. For all her beauty and charm and sweetness, she has let Larry down for years and really tormented him. If he can succeed in breaking away, good luck to him. Women of Viv's temperament, looks and exigence can raise too much hell for themselves and everyone near them."

by Anonymousreply 122November 22, 2016 12:15 PM

Actually Gore Vidal did stand by the truthfulness of Scotty Bowers autobio - probably because he knew Bowers for decades and was part of that Hollywood scene himself.

The troll who keeps trying to discredit Bowers is probably the spawn of some Old Hollywood figure cited in the book.

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by Anonymousreply 123November 22, 2016 3:50 PM

It shows how little Bipolar Disorder was understood in the 1950s that Coward considered VL's manic phases as Roaring Twenties Madcap Jazz Baby behavior.

by Anonymousreply 124November 22, 2016 3:53 PM

Eddie Fisher did seem to become unwound after Liz left him. Burton always gave me a creepy vibe. So I could totally believe he assaulted someone sexually. And Liz would go along with it because she was narcissistic enough to believe Richard did it for her, and that's all that matters. She was a beautiful woman and a talented actress, but totally self centered and self serving.

by Anonymousreply 125November 22, 2016 4:00 PM

Oh, for fuck's sake, if you're using Gore Vidal (of all people!) to verify a story you're really in trouble. He was a hilariously notorious liar. Remember when he didn't like the biography by Fred Kaplan he had authorized, and so went around telling people that he thought he had authorized JUSTIN Kaplan to write it?

by Anonymousreply 126November 22, 2016 4:10 PM

Did Phillip Burton, who wanted to adopt Richard when his protege was 20, have a sexual interest, either consummated or not, in his "surrogate son"?

by Anonymousreply 127November 22, 2016 4:10 PM

Gore Vidal, especially in his final years, was thoroughly unreliable as a truth-teller.

I can easily imagine him standing up for Scotty Bowers merely as a FUCK YOU before he died to all the Hollywood and society elite he detested all of his life. I'm sure Vidal thought it was just hilarious to soil the reputations of so many revered legends like Hepburn, Tracy, Olivier, Leigh, the Windsors (well, ok, they weren't exactly revered), etc. etc. He probably encouraged Bowers to outrageously call the Duke of Windsor "Eddy" to even further fan the flames. Vidal was dying by then....what did he care?

by Anonymousreply 128November 22, 2016 4:17 PM

I could make up a crazy story here, and many of you would believe it absolutely. People believe in Bowers' book because they find it exciting, not because there's anything remotely plausible about it. Some people lead such dull lives that they'll embrace anything sensational, no matter how absurd it might be.

When I was a young man living in Hollywood in the 70s, one would often meet older queens who would go on and on about trysts they had had with very famous actors, and ramble endlessly about rumors they would swear were true. Everyone knew they were full of shit.

by Anonymousreply 129November 22, 2016 4:27 PM

So R123 believes that Scotty Bowers had threesomes with "Eddie and Wally?" That Tennessee Williams wrote a book about him but follows Bower's advice and burned it? That Bowers procured lesbians for Katherine Hepburn (Hepburn wouldn't have considered Bowers good enough to spit on, much less procure for her) over a hundred times? That everybody who met Bowers wanted to fuck him, and usually did? What a moron! What an idiot! What a fucking retard! It just goes to show that there are some people who are so stupid they will believe anything.

by Anonymousreply 130November 22, 2016 9:04 PM

Geez, I already mentioned that Ray Burr's boyfriend confirmed SOME of the things in the book. I doubt all of it is true (the stuff about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor sounds made up to me) but it isn't all lies either.

by Anonymousreply 131November 22, 2016 9:24 PM

Yeah, Rock Hudson's ex confirmed some stories in the Bowers book as well. It sounds like the Powers family who's desperate to color Ty as a straight family man may have found this thread. The histrionics give them away.

by Anonymousreply 132November 22, 2016 11:55 PM

Raymond Burr's boyfriend and Rock Hudson's ex...such credible sources of information.

by Anonymousreply 133November 23, 2016 12:31 AM

R132, that isn't entirely true. I went to school with Tyrone, Jr. I am pretty sure that he was the one who said that Tyrone, Sr's own words were that he slept with men because it was easier than saying no, and he was rarely asked a second time (which actually makes him sound like a lousy lay.)

I know people who were around in the day. The Bower's book is accurate enough that it makes the implausible sections seem plausible by association. This seems to be the conflict. He had enough real dirt to give the book credibility. He then makes up stories, often to be vindictive and defame people he did not like and in at least one case rejected him outright or to feed his ego (Wallis and Edward). I think he was savvy enough to realize that at this point, it is next to impossible to separate the truth from the lies.

by Anonymousreply 134November 23, 2016 12:36 PM

Tyrone Power may not have been re-invited to foregather by his gentlemen callers because he had the Irish Curse, which would have been his one imperfection.

by Anonymousreply 135November 23, 2016 1:31 PM

The British comedian Bob Monkhouse revealed how Tyrone Power, while in a bath, stood up and invited Monkhouse to join him. Wouldn't it have been simpler to tell Monkhouse that he'll be right out?

by Anonymousreply 136November 23, 2016 1:36 PM

R135, the Irish Curse means that they are too drunk to get it up. If he was under endowed, it was hardly his only imperfection. He apparently had child bearing hips. Allegedly, Edith Head(?) invented pleated pants to hide his hips. (Not true, but an interesting story.)

Monkhouse was an interesting mess. He seems to have been sex addict who admits to having sex with transexuals. He probably had a few men as well. Also, story is open to interpretation. It could also be Tyrone Power's way of calling Monkhouse out for staring at his body. (Curious as to why the two men would be in a bathroom at the same time. If it was a shower, it could be a locker room, but a bath would either be a private home of a hotel.) )

Just to clarify, I am not saying that Tyrone Power was not either gay or bi. Tyrone, Jr was born after Tyrone, Sr died. All I was saying is that not all of the Power family are trying to portray him as 100% heterosexual. Since Tyrone, Jr never met his father, he is probably far less invested in keeping up appearances.

by Anonymousreply 137November 23, 2016 2:31 PM


Seriously, you keep hijacking threads to plug your shitty book and I for one and sick of it.

by Anonymousreply 138November 23, 2016 7:35 PM

Why Olivier stayed with Vivien for so long after all this craziness?!

by Anonymousreply 139November 24, 2016 12:58 AM

Will you lay with me?

by Anonymousreply 140November 24, 2016 1:06 AM

"Why Olivier stayed with Vivien for so long after all this craziness?!"

He really did love her. That's why. But his love burned out eventually. Hers for him never did, despite all her affairs. Her affairs really meant nothing; she was crazy, and when she was crazy she'd fuck anything. Plus, they had an image to protect. They were what is now known as a "power couple", both highly respected, classically trained actors, revered for being being beautiful, elegant, talented. Theirs was considered one of the great love stories of Hollywood; they seemed perfect for each other. But the reality was very different. Olivier kept up the pretense for a long time, but in order to preserve his sanity and sick of all the craziness he bailed out. It was the only thing he could do. He was running for his life.

by Anonymousreply 141November 24, 2016 1:35 AM

And the marriage after Leigh lasted the rest of his life, didn't it?

by Anonymousreply 142November 24, 2016 1:39 AM

It's said that Larry was haunted or obsessed with Vivien in the last years of his life.

by Anonymousreply 143November 24, 2016 1:41 AM

[quote]He put out a nasty book for money

Scotty Bowers doesn't need money. He's fucking 90 odd, has worked all his life, and was left two homes by actor Beech Dickinson.

by Anonymousreply 144November 24, 2016 1:47 AM

Sarah Miles on Vivien Leigh and Larry Olivier :

"I have done my best to avoid talking about my 20-year relationship with Laurence Olivier for almost two decades. But now, due to the many stories flying around, most of which seem to favour his troubled wife Vivien Leigh, I want to protect his truth as I know it.

In 1963 he asked me to join his new Old Vic National Theatre to play Abigail in Arthur Miller’s The Crucible, which he was directing. In a break in rehearsals one morning, he noticed how exhausted I looked and asked me what was wrong. I told him about my Nona saga. Nona was a fellow RADA student who had looked me up, and finding that I now lived in a house in Chelsea, barged through my front door with her suitcase one afternoon and asked if she could stay with me until she got her bearings.

She apparently had no family – and stayed for three years. When I told Larry that she had been diagnosed as a manic depressive, schizophrenic nymphomaniac – it wasn’t unusual to find three men queuing on the steps of my home waiting to ‘entertain’ Nona – his eyes popped open in astonishment. ‘A manic depressive, schizophrenic, nymphomaniac, eh .  .  ?’ he repeated quietly. ‘Well, well, what a coincidence .  .  . ’ He went on to tell me that Vivien had been diagnosed with exactly the same three conditions.

Over the next 25 years, Larry would share many Vivien stories, sometimes portraying her in a very disturbing, cruel light. He, too, did not always emerge smelling of roses.

For example, he told how once, before he and Vivien parted for good, he pushed her aside during a row and she accidentally tripped and fell into the fireplace, hitting her head on the fire dog.

Larry thought he had killed her. When Vivien came round, he swore that if he didn’t part from her, next time he surely would kill her. The more we compared notes, the closer we became, for we both shared the utter despair, the unimaginable frustration and hopelessness of wrestling with two such pitiable creatures, albeit not at the same time.

Larry admitted that the period after splitting up with Vivien was the darkest, most lonely time of his whole life. Indeed, if it wasn’t for the fact that Vivien was always threatening to kill herself while they were together, he might have taken his own life, for he was seriously off balance at that time.

Larry was too much of a gentleman to speak openly about Vivien’s sex addiction. But I do know that Vivien would get her kicks by making sure she would time her ‘amours’ to coincide with Larry returning to their house in Chelsea or Notley Abbey, their country estate in Buckinghamshire.

Jealousy was rife between the pair, but Vivien became unmanageable when Larry began having hit after hit. She wanted to be Larry. She demanded that he use his influence to create opportunities for her to become a Dame, and felt that Larry wasn’t helping her sufficiently to that end.

But he told me: ‘The truth is she wasn’t good enough in the theatre. She would never even bother turning up for her voice production classes. ‘Now, if she had stuck to filming, she would have won Oscar after Oscar, but that wasn’t good enough for Vivien – she was determined to beat me at my own game.’

by Anonymousreply 145November 24, 2016 1:51 AM

For the Bowers naysayer: check Cecil Beaton's diary of the 60s. There's an entry "Scotty" which is obviously Bowers. Beaton praises his character and service.

by Anonymousreply 146November 24, 2016 1:56 AM

"For the Bowers naysayer: check Cecil Beaton's diary of the 60s. There's an entry "Scotty" which is obviously Bowers. Beaton praises his character and service.'

Oh shut up, you idiot. A mention of "Scotty" and you think it must be Scotty Bowers? Bowers is a liar and you're a moron.

by Anonymousreply 147November 24, 2016 2:00 AM

r147 is clearly unhinged.

by Anonymousreply 148November 24, 2016 2:03 AM

More from the blog with "Full Service: Fun with Fact Checking":

I had barely gotten past the title page when I encountered:

Authors’ Notes:

This manuscript is based on my memory and, to the very best of my ability, reflects actual incidents and personalities as I recall them. -Scotty Bowers

This manuscript is based on roughly 150 hours of recorded interviews with Scotty Bowers. I have added only factual details regarding studios, productions, and various film shoots to augment Scotty’s recollections, specifically where he could not remember exact details himself. -Lionel Friedberg

Memory… “incidents and personalities as I recall them.” Not to prejudge, but it seems that “Full Service” may not adhere to the highest standards of historical research.

So I decided it would be fun to go through the book and give it a bit of fact-checking. This is a tedious, time-consuming task (longtime readers may recall “Blogging the Wolfe Book”) and I can’t promise how far I’ll get.

But, frankly, the first impression isn’t good. Remember the subtitle? “My Adventures in Hollywood and the Secret Sex Lives of the Stars.”

I flipped through the photos and except for a couple of childhood snapshots, one portrait from World War II and a current picture, all the rest are file photos “from the Neal Peters Collection.” I would sort of expect that someone who had nearly uncountable trysts with the stars might have gotten at least one inscribed picture. You know, “Oh you kid! –Franklin Pangborn” or something like that.

For that matter, there’s no picture of the gas station where Bowers supposedly worked. Instead we get some unidentified Richfield station with the caption: “Sadly, I don’t have a photo of the Hollywood Boulevard gas station, but it looked much like this one.”

by Anonymousreply 149November 24, 2016 2:05 AM

R148 is clearly Scotty Bowers. You're pathetic, Scotty.

by Anonymousreply 150November 24, 2016 2:07 AM

Scotty Bowers is too fucking old to post here you insipid twat.

by Anonymousreply 151November 24, 2016 2:32 AM

R149 I recall somewhere on the web (Curbed LA maybe) people figured out the station (Richfield station at 5777 Hollywood Blvd.) has since been torn down and there is now a LAFD station at that location.

Regarding the photo credits, who takes photos of tricks?

by Anonymousreply 152November 24, 2016 2:37 AM

There's a photo of Bowers service station in the LA County Library photographic collection. It's a great shot: includes a tram!

by Anonymousreply 153November 24, 2016 2:50 AM

David Patrick Columbia knew Bowers in LA. He has a great essay about him here. I think what doesn't come across in the book which the essay makes clear is that celebrities were only part of his clients. So it wasn't just one long starfuck.

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by Anonymousreply 154November 24, 2016 2:55 AM

"Scotty Bowers is too fucking old to post here you insipid twat."

Why not? He's not dead, you dumb fuck.

by Anonymousreply 155November 24, 2016 3:08 AM

R149 here is a link from your fact checker about the gas station w/ comment:

Jon Ponder says:t February 22, 2012 at 11:15 amt

I read an advance copy that I borrowed from a client who has known Scotty Bowers since the 1940s, and my take is that the material here does not warrant deep scrutiny. It is being promoted as an expose, but it is really just a sex-drenched memoir based entirely on Bowers’ recollection of long ago events, nearly all of which can neither be proved or disproved. If you have not done so already, I’d recommend skimming through to the end. There really is not a lot of “there” there.

For myself, at least, I didn’t find a lot that was new or surprising — although some of it was decidedly TMI. Most of what he says just adds to rumors about celebrities from the Golden Age that have been circulating for decades, and his claims that he “tricked” with George Cukor, Cary Grant, Randolph Scott, Charles Laughton, Cecil Beaton, etc. etc., prove nothing. That said, I didn’t get the sense that Scotty is trying to put one over on his readers. The attitude he projects is “This is what happened to me, take it or leave it.” He is pushing 90 after all.

And. for what it’s worth, there are reputable people who vouch for Scotty, generally, at least. On page 337 of “Kate: The Woman Who Was Hepburn,” for example, author William Mann says Scotty was identified by former Herald-Examiner and Times writer David Ehrenstein, the author of “Open Secrets,” as Hollywood’s “famous male madam.” (Mann does not really say where the quote appeared, and I could not find the quote from Ehrenstein in the book or in the Times archives.) Mann also got quotes attesting to Scotty’s veracity from two friends of George Cukor, Michael Childers, whom Mann also describes the longtime partner of John Schlesinger, and Gavin Lambert. Gore Vidal, who has known Scotty for 60 years or so, and who helped him find a publisher for the book, has also endorsed Scotty’s truthfulness, stating on the book flap that “Scotty doesn’t lie — the stars sometimes do — and he knows everybody.”

About the gas station: I no longer have a copy of the book but, if memory serves, Scotty said the owner of the Richfield station was Bill Booth. (He also said that the boss and the mechanic had no idea that he was running an escort service from the station.) Via ProQuest, Booth’s Richfield Service at 5777 Hollywood is listed in display ads for Goodyear Tires that ran about once a week in the Times from mid-April through September of 1949, which is when Scotty says he worked there. In a similar Goodyear ad that ran intermittently from May 22 to September 4, 1952, the station is listed as Bill Booth’s Richfield Service. I’m not sure when the station was torn down to make way for the freeway ramp, but in an ad for spark plugs that ran in the August 12, 1956, Times, Bill Booth Service is shown with an address in Bell — 3901 E. Florence Ave.

Similarly, Scotty later claims he worked as a bartender at a nightclub on La Cienega owned by Johnny Walsh and the Baroness Catherine D’Erlanger, who also owned Cafe Gala, the gay friendly celebrity night spot on Horn above the Strip (future site of Spago’s). I looked up the La Cienega address (which I believe was 881) when I read the book. Proquest found a club there but there was nothing in either the ads or a few news items about the club that proved or disproved it was owned by Walsh and the Baroness, or that Scotty worked there.

Perhaps because I know a friend of Scotty’s who vouches for him 100 percent, I found that Scotty’s story had the ring of verisimilitude. And there is a rational basis for what he claims he did. There have always been closeted movie stars and moguls in this town — it was true in the silent era and in the Golden Age, and is still true in some quarters today — and they have always relied on the discretion of hirelings to help them satisfy their needs in secret. Someone helped those famous men fulfill their needs back in the day. It is as likely that it was Scotty Bowers as it was anyone else.

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by Anonymousreply 156November 24, 2016 3:17 AM

Ooh, the NY Social Diary entry has been pulled. That's interesting. It claimed that one of his clients had no arms or legs. I think Bowers success was due to not only being handsome & hung, and his discretion, but the fact he was kind. I used to know a VERY successful rentboy to the global monied who was the entire package: body and dick of death, boyish face, skin like silk. But what really catpaulted him into the stratosphere of the 1% was his sweet nature: he was naturally kind. One grand old gentlemen told me how incredibly considerate he was. Kindness is everything!

Here's Beaton on Bowers:

Scotty is a phenomenon. I heard several years ago that the police had caught up with him ... I only had a telephone number, now surely in disrepair. But no. Although I woke him early, his voice was as cheerful as ever. It is five years since I’ve seen him ... I asked him how much I owed him and he suggested a sum much smaller than I knew was customary.”

by Anonymousreply 157November 24, 2016 3:26 AM

"It is being promoted as an expose, but it is really just a sex-drenched memoir based entirely on Bowers’ recollection of long ago events, nearly all of which can neither be proved or disproved."

That's just it. NOTHING Bowers says can be proven, no matter how many people "vouch" for him. You have to take his nasty stories on faith. Which is a pretty damn stupid thing to do. I think the poor souls who take Scotty Bower's tall tales as gospel truth also believe everything Darwin Porter says. They also believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and Bigfoot. They think Elvis is still alive and a furry man beast named Big Foot lurks in the woods. In other words, they will believe anything, the poor dumb clucks.

by Anonymousreply 158November 24, 2016 3:30 AM

Bowers supposedly appeared in a (straight) porn movie and also in a number of physique shots. Those I'd like to see!

by Anonymousreply 159November 24, 2016 3:32 AM

Scotty Bowers was "handsome" and "hung?!" HAHAHAHAHA! That fucker has the squashed face of a troll? And hung? Well, I seriously doubt that. I seriously doubt all this shit about the appeal of Scotty Bowers. I think his publicist is posting on this thread. Either that or poor old Scotty himself.

by Anonymousreply 160November 24, 2016 3:32 AM

Post a photo of yourself R160 and we'll see how you compare to the photo of him when a marine paratrooper.

by Anonymousreply 161November 24, 2016 3:36 AM

From the website that did a very good job of fact-checking Scotty Bower's tales:

AC says: July 18, 2016 at 9:33 am Bowers is a liar and a fraud. But this is not some secret as you only need to read his book to find this out.

lmharnisch says: July 1, 2014 at 6:29 pm One of the things that clinched it for me is the lack of a single personal photograph from any of his supposed “friends.” Or a photo of them together. Not a one.

Dim says: July 1, 2014 at 5:42 pm Although there’s lots of unbelievable stuff in this book, what clinched the lack of truth for me was the bit about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor. There is absolutely no way that the Duke of Windsor would have been introduced to a service person, let alone say to that person, “Call me Edward” (especially given that his family and friends all called him “David’). And to allow Bowers to call him “Eddy” is absolutely ridiculous. The British royal family are sticklers for protocol (especially Edward’s generation) and this is just laughable. The other telltale sign that Bowers is a blowhard is his reference to all these people becoming his “good friends”. Ummmm… he was a bartender, waiter, handyman, prostitute and pimp. And are we actually supposed to believe that he arranged all these liaisons, spent gas driving all these people around at all hours of the day and night, had Betty being a veritable answering service and he didn’t charge for any of this? Was just doing it out of the goodness of his heart? I don’t, for one minute, believe that. Mr. Bowers has hit on a way to become comfortable in his old age by slagging people who can’t respond or hit back and I find that to be offensive.

by Anonymousreply 162November 24, 2016 3:43 AM

Get this! It contains an excerpt of Bower's "writing." It is jaw droppingly bad:

When Bowers gets to Page XII, we get to the pith of “Full Service”:

"I felt myself reminiscing about dear and wonderful friends, all long departed. Oh, Kate, Spence, Judy, Tyrone, George, Cary, Rita, Charles, Randolph, Edith, Vivien, I thought … where are you all now? Do you look down at me from wherever you are and chuckle as you watch me mulling over how our lives intersected? What should I make of all those incredible adventures we enjoyed together? What do you beautiful souls think of the nostalgia now welling up within me? Am I resurrecting moments from yesterday simply because I want to dust them off and discard them or because I want to burnish them more brightly and hold on to them more endearingly?"

In other words, Bowers does a lot of name-dropping, presumably to set the stage for his exploits.

Fortunately, he does reassure us that not everyone he knew … INTIMATELY … was famous….

"There were politicians, judges, bankers, doctors, industrialists, newspaper columnists, even kings and queens. Not all were rich and famous. There were also plain, regular men and women whose names I shall never be able to recall. But I knew them all. Intimately."

… just don’t expect them to get any ink.

Recall that I’m blogging this in real time and not reading ahead. So we have these names:

Kate, Spence, Judy, Tyrone, George, Cary, Rita, Charles, Randolph, Edith, Vivien,

These are all Conveniently Dead People Who Can’t Sue. But it’s a fun little word association test, although I didn’t do so well.

Kate is presumably Hepburn. Spence, I would imagine, is Spencer Tracy.

Oh dear. The first person I think of when Bowers says “Judy” is…

Judy Canova. Hm. Probably not. I guess that’s Judy Garland.

Tyrone would be Power…

George, uh, Burns? Hm. George Gobel? Liberace’s brother George?


Cary, OK, Grant. That’s easy.

Rita, I assume is Rita Hayworth.

Charles…. Chaplin?… Boyer? … Ives? … Nelson Reilly? Oh, he’s the secret square!


Randolph, easy. Scott.

Edith…. Edith? EDITH? Edith Head?…. Edith Bunker?… Edith not into temptation?


Vivien. Ah. Leigh.

And do you think they are looking down from the great sound stage in the sky and smiling?

Maybe not.

by Anonymousreply 163November 24, 2016 3:46 AM

Jesus Christ would someone stick a dick in the Scotty Bowers Troll's mouth? And, is it the same troll who's been ranting about him for the last 5 years in every "Old Hollywood Gossip" post?

As for Olivier, he was obviously a VERY conflicted omnisexual. He fucked men and women, for pleasure and career.

And, his marriage to Plowright fell apart YEARS before he died. They lived very separate lives the last 15 years of his life. Frankly, she seemed like a bitch. She liked being Lady Olivier and all the roles it got her (despite the fact she was a meh actress) but didn't much care to take care of her husband in his declining years.

by Anonymousreply 164November 24, 2016 4:10 AM

"Post a photo of yourself [R160] and we'll see how you compare to the photo of him when a marine paratrooper.'

Did Scotty suck your dick? Boy, you must have pretty hard up to let anybody with THAT face swallow your weenie.

by Anonymousreply 165November 24, 2016 4:29 AM

R164 Thank you! I always thought (like many others) that Joan Plowright was the loyal patient wife who stood by her ill husband in his last years But when i read many biographies about Olivier, I realized that Joan was a cold calculating woman, she basically left him in the care of nurses and was running around doing movies/plays while her husband was alone and dying and his friends were feeeling sorry for him and tried to keep him company.. She claimed in one book that the reason she left him in his illness bed and ran around working was to secure money for his treatment! Bitch please

by Anonymousreply 166November 24, 2016 2:29 PM

He was the Travolta of his generation.

by Anonymousreply 167November 24, 2016 4:06 PM

Olivier was no Travolta. He was a million times more handsome, talented and intelligent than that goon.

by Anonymousreply 168November 24, 2016 4:54 PM

R167 must be joking?! WTF?!

by Anonymousreply 169November 24, 2016 5:45 PM

Despite the fact that I realize at least 75% of what Darwin Porter writes is either fantasy or cut-and-paste from other sources, I still love to read it. Where else can you find a 800-page tome about the Gabor sisters?

by Anonymousreply 170November 24, 2016 10:49 PM

Laurence Olivier' quote in the last years of his life:

"“The fact is that I don’t know who I am … I’ve played all these parts and I don’t know who I am. I’m a hollow man.”

by Anonymousreply 171November 26, 2016 3:38 AM

Peter Sellers said the same thing as Olivier: "If you ask me to play myself, I will not know what to do. I do not know who or what I am."

by Anonymousreply 172November 26, 2016 3:55 AM


by Anonymousreply 173November 26, 2016 10:56 PM

"Olivier got on well with Schlesinger (Marathon Man' director) from the start and concluded that he was a director to be trusted. Nevertheless, he found it necessary to ask Derek Granger whether he thought that Schlesinger was gay. “Why do you want to know?” asked Granger. “Because when some of us actors are under the thumb of a director, we like all the information we can get,"......"

by Anonymousreply 174November 27, 2016 8:42 PM

John Gielgud enjoyed reading Donald Spoto' biography on Olivier :

" He was fascinated to read in Donald Spoto’s biography that Olivier was supposed to have had an affair with Danny Kaye. “Quite unexpected news,” he wrote, but then he remembered that Kaye had plied him with drink at his home in Hollywood. “Perhaps he conceived making a pass at me and thought better of it when he actually saw me … You never know, and I never shall.”


by Anonymousreply 175November 27, 2016 8:51 PM

Robert Helpmann on Olivier :

"Helpmann himself claims Olivier once said: “I’m sorry to say this in front of you, Cocky, but I don’t think there is any place in the theatre for queers”

by Anonymousreply 176November 27, 2016 8:55 PM

Was Olivier living in a bubble in the 1970s? I can't believe he didn't know that Schlesinger was gay by then. Even I, a little junior high school brat from Bridge and Tunnel Land, was well-aware of this fact.

by Anonymousreply 177November 27, 2016 8:57 PM

R177 "Was Olivier living in a bubble in the 1970s?"

In a sense, yes..Larry was plagued by various serious illnesses in 1970s (till his death), Marathon Man was the first movie he did after battling a very serious neuromuscular disease that left him frail and debilitated, mentally and physically.

by Anonymousreply 178November 27, 2016 9:03 PM

Olivier on Kenneth Tynan :

"Ken had an absolute dread of any hint of homosexuality, I greeted him tremendously warmly, I remember, and i found him very reserved, as if to say "keep your place, just in case you think i'm a sucker"

by Anonymousreply 179November 27, 2016 11:09 PM

Don Spoto is frequently full of shit. He's done lots of celebrity biographies, but he's not a good biographer. He absolutely hates Alfred Hitchcock with a passion; he did TWO very nasty, mean spirited biased biographies of Hitchcock. But he is totally in love with Marilyn Monroe. In his biography of her he insists that she was NOT mentally ill, was NOT promiscuous, was NOT a drug addict and that she was unfairly maligned for being unprofessional and inconsiderate to her co-workers. You can't really put a lot of stock into a lot of things he says. If he's a fan, he writes a flattering biography. If he's not a fan, he rakes the celebrity over the coals. And his claim that Olivier and Danny Kaye were lovers has been very well debunked by Terry Coleman in his biography of Olivier.

by Anonymousreply 180November 28, 2016 2:34 AM

Do you mean that Spoto said that Olivier was gay because he hated him?

Because being gay is really a bad thing?

by Anonymousreply 181November 28, 2016 2:59 AM

I don't know if Spoto hated him. His biography suggests he didn't like him much, because he said a lot of things about him that had no basis in fact. This is from Terry Coleman's bio of Olivier:

Spoto also writes in his biography that the first draft of Olivier's Confessions of an Actor "frankly admitted the numerous homosexual escapades of his adult life--events his third wife prevailed on him to remove from the book." Joan Plowright clearly states she did nothing of the sort. Olivier's partial manuscript and the three typescripts of his book in the British Library bear many amendments but not one of the kind Spoto claims. Spoto also describes a lurid scene between Olivier and (Danny) Kaye. He writes that when in 1953 Vivien broke down in London and Olivier went out to her, flying from Italy to Los Angeles via London and New York, Danny Kaye met him at Idlewild airport, New York. There, according to Spoto, Kaye disguised himself as a customs officer and subjected Olivier to a naked and intimate body search. He writes: After submitting to the indignities of an inspection of every inch and crevice of his body, Olivier was astonished to see the customs officer step back and slowly remove a complex disguise ( dark wig and heavily powdered latex mask), and there before the naked Olivier stood Danny Kaye. They spent the night at the St. Regis before continuing to California the next morning." This is a tale that does not bear examination. First of all, it assumes the complicity of the U.S. customs and immigration officers, who are on the whole not given to such things. Second, Olivier's diary entries for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, 13, 14, and 15 March 1953 are precise and make nonsense of the story. At 6:15 a.m. on Friday he took a boat from Ischia, where he had been on holiday; crossed to Naples, took a train to Rome, from where he flew to New York via Heathrow, arriving at Idlewild airport, after a journey of thirty-one hours, at 8:56 a.m. on Saturday. He was not alone. On the last leg of the journey, from London, he was accompanied by Cecil Tenant. Kaye did meet them at the airport, but Olivier, who must have been exhausted, then went to the Sherry Netherland Hotel, (not the St. Regis) where he had a massage and a short sleep. He did not stay the night in New York at that or any other hotel, but left just after midnight on Sunday on the 12:30 a.m. Ambassador flight for Los Angeles.

Spoto's book appears to have a full apparatus of notes and sources but for none of his mentions of Danny Kaye and for none of the matters mentioned above, is any single source or authority given. He offers not one piece of evidence for his speculations.

by Anonymousreply 182November 28, 2016 3:45 AM

His wife is in the midst of a total mental breakdown, such that he had to drop everything to rush and tend to her. And on the way, during this emergency and very long, exhausting trip, a perceived total stranger (Danny Kaye in disguise) probes and searches every crevice and hole in his body, labelled "indignities." Olivier then drops everything to plow Kaye in a hotel room. If Olivier could even get it up during this wretched trip, he was a sick man, sicker than his wife, Vivien.

by Anonymousreply 183November 28, 2016 4:36 AM

Thank you R183 I was just parsing that out to post how absurd the reality of it sounded.

by Anonymousreply 184November 28, 2016 4:38 AM

R182 Darwin Porter read that passage and said to himself "OMG who would even believe that much less write it?"

by Anonymousreply 185November 28, 2016 4:42 AM

As amateur erotic fan fiction goes, I'd give the quote at R183 maybe a 2/10, and most of that is for the correct spelling.

Did Spoto actually believe that customs officers let impostors do the job, and drag celebrities off to be strip-searched? Does anyone believe that a husband would be in a mood for sex and delays when his wife has gone nuts and could be burning down the house? Does anyone believe that putting someone through a humiliating strip-search would get someone laid, rather than punched in the face?

by Anonymousreply 186November 28, 2016 6:25 AM

And does anyone believe Olivier wouldn't recognize his old friend no matter how much latex, greasepaint, powder and wiggery he donned?

by Anonymousreply 187November 28, 2016 12:02 PM


by Anonymousreply 188November 28, 2016 2:57 PM

r130, andI just could not believe that Charles Laughton would eat shit sandwiches, from a male prostitute ....

by Anonymousreply 189November 29, 2016 5:04 PM

I remember that ridiculous story from Spoto's book...He makes Scotty Bowers credible by comparison.

by Anonymousreply 190November 30, 2016 2:57 AM

Spoto said Charles Laughton "would eat shit sandwiches, from a male prostitute?" These so-called celebrity "biographers" are such liars, such blatant liars.

by Anonymousreply 191November 30, 2016 3:12 AM

Scotty Bowers is clearly full of shit but the people on here [italic]cannot[/italic] be serious about finding him ugly....

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by Anonymousreply 192November 30, 2016 3:23 AM

What is this obsessive hatred for Scotty Bowers?! The thread got hacked with Scotty' comments. Give it up and stop talking about him whether you believe him or not!

by Anonymousreply 193November 30, 2016 2:16 PM

Yes, let's go back to the juicy gossip about Larry.

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by Anonymousreply 194November 30, 2016 8:02 PM

"What is this obsessive hatred for Scotty Bowers?!"

Liars like him are horrible, detestable scum. That's where the hatred comes from. He deserves it.

by Anonymousreply 195November 30, 2016 9:12 PM

R195 OKAY, We get it, you and others made your point clearly. knock it off and stop swarming the thread with Scotty Bowers' talk!

by Anonymousreply 196December 1, 2016 12:23 AM

I wonder why Larry and Danny Kaye friendship wasn't maintained in the 1960s, 70s....Most Olivier biography books don't mention Danny in Olivier' later life at all.

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by Anonymousreply 197December 1, 2016 12:32 AM


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by Anonymousreply 198December 1, 2016 12:51 AM


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by Anonymousreply 199December 1, 2016 12:52 AM

Lady Olivier aka. actress Joan Plowright and Larry's second wife after Vivien Leigh. She seems to have blurted out the secret when she tired of being blamed for ending Olivier's marriage to Leigh. 'No, no,' she avered. 'Not guilty. Danny Kaye was on the scene long before I came along'.

by Anonymousreply 200December 1, 2016 12:54 AM

The best book I ever read on Olivier was "Olivier" by Terry Coleman. But there's another interesting one: "The Real Life of Laurence Olivier" by Roger Lewis. Lewis is a Welsh academic, biographer and journalist." He has obvious talent as a writer, but his books (I've read two) are cluttered with ponderous talk about the actor's performances and boy is he ever bitchy! That can be entertaining at times, but often comes across as downright cruel. He wrote "The Life and Death of Peter Sellers" and it really is hard to read over and over again how fucked up and crazy Sellers was. He book on Olivier is milder than the one on Seller's but he doesn't mince words when it comes to his unflattering utterances. Lewis talks about Oliver's wedding night with Jill Esmond; he says that their honeymoon was a "complete catastrophe." Jill Esmond had an ovarian cyst, and was not in the mood for sex. Olivier was sexually inexperienced and "after a few clumsy fondles, they turned away from each other in disgust." Lewis goes on to say:

It was the end of innocence. the shock of real sexual experience had been exacerbated by his fear of failure, or as he'd see it, his desire to be perfect. His anxieties killed off religion for him. He'd stayed within its tenets, and it had let him down; nor could he now document himself, look at himself (literally: he accidentally shaved off half his moustache by not squinting in the mirror). "From this wedding day I kept no diary for ten years and did not pursue my religious practices ever again." The consequences of his bungled marital consummation are connected. He didn't wish to record events, or to be accountable, by logging his deeds and perceptions, he didn't want any reckoning. He required invisibility. An emptiness had overtaken him, a desire for oblivion, and henceforward they're be an eradication of a private life, a real life, and art would come first. There'd be a single minded devotion to work (at the expense, eventually, of family). He recoiled from intimacy in his relationships, and in a sense he compensated for this by being erotic in his acting. "He did not exclude sex appeal, at least to me," says Lauren Bacall. "Privately, he was not the imposing figure of grandeur that he was in the theatre...he was a somewhat shy and serious man. It's a funny thing about sex appeal. When I see Larry now in "Wuthering Heights" "Rebecca", "Pride and Prejudice"...he excludes sex, passion, romance. Knowing him, I never saw it. I saw other things. He clearly saved that other side for work."

Lewis goes on to say: He had a sexuality and attractiveness when performing, but that power was not there in reality: the small penis, the knotted prepuce, the sterile testicle: the premature ejaculation ("dreaded weakness").

by Anonymousreply 201December 1, 2016 12:58 AM

I think this summarize Larry and Vivien' relationship dynamic:

"Peter Ustinov visited Notley only once, but came away with a vivid impression: 'Vivien sat like a cat on the sofa and said very little and seemed to dominate [Larry] by not saying anything. Every time he looked at her he would start becoming more buoyant and more aggressive.' When Ustinov retired for the night he was prevented from sleeping by a slight pressure on his feet, 'as though somebody had left a copy of Life magazine on the bed'. On further investigation, he discovered that the bed had been made the wrong way up, and the weight was due to an enormous monogram with the initials L.O. and V.L. intertwined. 'Once I knew what it was, I could put up with it.'

by Anonymousreply 202December 1, 2016 1:10 AM

About Vivien' infamous breakdown in 1953:

"At New York they were again met by Danny Kaye, whose reunion with Olivier grew so intense that Vivien - by now able to smile sweetly at the photographers - had a jealous relapse. Her sedation having worn off, she noisily refused to board the flight to London. Kaye made himself scarce, but still she struggled. So Olivier had to arrange for them to be driven across the tarmac to the aircraft steps, where before astonished passengers and crew he and Tennant physically dragged Vivien out of the limousine and on to the plane.

Olivier had now reached his lowest ebb. It was agony to have excited photographers recording Vivien's worst moments yet, as she screamed and resisted, punched and kicked him all the way into the aircraft."

by Anonymousreply 203December 1, 2016 1:14 AM

"Lady Olivier aka. actress Joan Plowright and Larry's second wife after Vivien Leigh. She seems to have blurted out the secret when she tired of being blamed for ending Olivier's marriage to Leigh. 'No, no,' she avered. "Not guilty. Danny Kaye was on the scene long before I came along."

"The secret?" What secret? That Kaye and Olivier were lovers? More likely she was exasperated and disgusted at always being blamed for the breakup of Leigh and Olivier's "perfect" marriage and just spat the comment out, not meaning it be taken seriously. She probably meant that as Olivier was distancing himself from Leigh he spent more time in the company of friends, and Kaye was one of them. Danny Kaye was a very entertaining, amusing man. He was fun to be around, as Leigh most certainly was not. He and Olivier were friends, but in serious biographies of Olivier Danny Kaye is a minor character in his life. I think the whole idea of a passionate affair between Laurence Olivier and Danny Kaye is simply a figment of some people's imaginations...especially scurrilous gossip mongers.

by Anonymousreply 204December 1, 2016 2:29 AM

R204 Why you seem so intent on denying Larry/Danny Kaye alleged affair?! i'm not sure if it's true or not , But by most accounts, Olivier was bisexual whether Danny was one of his lovers or not. Also, Joan Plowright' comment about Larry and Danny is so clear that she herself believes there was something between the two men.

by Anonymousreply 205December 1, 2016 10:57 AM

[quote]"Lady Olivier aka. actress Joan Plowright and Larry's second wife after Vivien Leigh. She seems to have blurted out the secret when she tired of being blamed for ending Olivier's marriage to Leigh. 'No, no,' she avered. "Not guilty. Danny Kaye was on the scene long before I came along."

That says it all.

by Anonymousreply 206December 2, 2016 9:36 PM

"That says it all."

No, it doesn't. You don't know much about Laurence Olivier, do you?

by Anonymousreply 207December 2, 2016 11:46 PM

"Why you seem so intent on denying Larry/Danny Kaye alleged affair?! i'm not sure if it's true or not , But by most accounts, Olivier was bisexual whether Danny was one of his lovers or not. Also, Joan Plowright' comment about Larry and Danny is so clear that she herself believes there was something between the two men."

Obviously you take her comment VERY seriously. I don't think she meant it to be.

Here's more on the subject of the supposed torrid affair between Olivier and Danny Kaye from Terry Coleman's biography:

Spoto's book appears to have a full apparatus of notes and sources, but for none of its mentions of Kaye (on pages 181, 191, 194, 197, 211 and 248) and for none of the matters mentioned above (the airport scene where Kaye pretends to be a customs agent and the subsequent tryst) , is any source or authority given. He offers not one piece of evidence for his speculations. But some idea of how the Danny Kaye story originated may be gathered from the recollections of Pieter Rogers, who in 1958 was general manager of the Royal Court and later, from 1962, of the Chichester Festival Theatre. He was a friend of both Olivier and Vivien Leigh and knew them well. In 1959, when their marriage had been over in any real sense for some time, he saw their distress. Vivien was appearing in "Look After Lulu" at the Royal Court, and he once saw Olivier coming down from her dressing room in tears, followed by a weeping Vivien. She held onto his coat and and would not let go and he unintentionally dragged her down the stairs. Rogers is himself homosexual but firmly believes Olivier was not. He remembered Vivien Leigh telling him that Danny Kaye was a sweet man, spontaneously funny and witty, but eccentric. She told him that one morning in the early or mid-1950s, when Danny Kaye was a guest at a house party in Notley, she woke to find him in her bed and kicked him out. Then, two or three days later, when she was in bed with Olivier, she woke to find Danny Kaye there again, ; she he was lying next to her, not Olivier. It is not certain how far she can be believed. There has to be a question how credible her account is. It was a time when parties sometimes went on all night and some guests slept where they fell, but it was also a time when Vivien was often deranged.

by Anonymousreply 208December 3, 2016 12:19 AM

And more:

Wait, there's more:

When Olivier himself was the first the air this matter of his bisexuality in his autobiography, after his death, others pursued the matter and what they suggest has to be considered. It is a principle theme of "Laurence Olivier; the Biography" by Donald Spoto, 1991, that Olivier was bisexual, and that 1950 "he was deeply involved in a homosexual affair with Danny Kaye." Spoto states that Olivier wrote a letter to Vivien Leighin 1961 "weakly describing as merely transitory and unimportant the sexual intimacy between him and Kaye." Why should Olivier have written any such letter to Vivien Leigh a year AFTER their divorce? Spoto does not quote from the letter and gives no single detail of it. That was the year he married Joan Plowright and in which their first child was born. He had hardened his heart against Vivien and wanted nothing to do with her. Spoto states that this letter came into the possession of Jack Merivale, who lived with Vivien for seven years until her death in 1967, and that it remained with him until his death in 1990. I have read dozens of letters between Merivale and Vivien Leigh, from the collection of her daughter, Suzanne Farrington, and there is not hint of any such thing. Merivale also gave many long and candid interviews to Hugo Vickers when he was writing his biography of Vivien Leigh in 1986-1987. I have seen the transcripts of these interviews and there is not hint there, either. Yet Marivale was oopen in these interviews. In one he said he and Vivien had at one time been lent a house on Long Island by a woman agent. "Very attractive lady," , e said, "but lesbian. Looking back on it, I think there could have easily been something between them." So although Merivale undoubtedly loved Vivien, he was not in his conversations with Vickers trying to protect her by concealing anything. As is plain from the correspondence of Olivier and Leigh in 1938-39, she was sexually adventurous. She was the pursuer. She was also indiscreet. Had she known Olivier had male partners, she probably, in one of her manic phases, told the world.

by Anonymousreply 209December 3, 2016 12:20 AM

R208 R209 I've read Terry Coleman book about Olivier, but i don't take his analysis as gospel. I've read Many other biographies about him, friends/people who knew him talk about him. and from all that Oliver was a bisexual man whether Danny Kaye was one of them or not.

by Anonymousreply 210December 3, 2016 2:09 PM

I wish that Sam would have followed this advice posted by R1 at thread #3:]

[quote]'The best thing he can do if he wants to continue riding the fame, is publicly say that he is single, and wants to keep it that way, as he has to concentrate on his career right now, and it would be selfish to expect a 'partner' to have to put up with that blah blah. Then he'd have to pretty much become a monk, and actually stay away from anyone or anyplace that can be connected to "gay" activity. But he needs to stop pretending he's straight and just be celibate. That way, in a few years time when he decide he's famous enough to "come out" he won't have lied about his love life, and he won't be surreptitiously busted with blurry photo's kissing some guy at a concert or whatever. It's either that, or he marries some beard & adopts 2 kids like some other superstar we know, and I'm pretty sure, probably pretty much lives a celibate life anyway. Once you declare yourself straight, that's it, you're fucked for ever coming out in the future - unless you don't want a career anymore. The only thing crazy fangirls hate more than closet gays, is liars.'

by Anonymousreply 211December 4, 2016 1:58 AM

Sorry, wrong thread.

by Anonymousreply 212December 4, 2016 2:00 AM

"I've read Terry Coleman book about Olivier, but i don't take his analysis as gospel. "

He seems a lot more credible than Donald Spoto. And he offers proof, whereas Spoto doesn't. Coleman does a good job of debunking the whole "Laurence Olivier and Danny Kaye had a long passionate affair" tale. He also makes a good case for Olivier not having a lust for homosexual sex. But saying that Olivier really liked cock it a titillating notion, so a lot of biographers would no doubt play up that assumption, believing that it would sell more books, facts be damned.

by Anonymousreply 213December 4, 2016 4:20 AM

I hated him!

by Anonymousreply 214December 4, 2016 4:34 AM

For whatever it's worth, which is probably not much-- when my partner was very young and pretty he ran into Olivier at his tailor's (this would have been in the late 60s or early 70s). He said that Olivier was charming and rather flirty.

by Anonymousreply 215December 5, 2016 7:47 AM

In 20 years there's probably never been a DL thread about a closeted gay/bisexual star which didn't contain at least one hysterical frau trying to defend the man's honor against such an execrable slur.

by Anonymousreply 216December 5, 2016 11:37 AM

I worry for the health of the Scotty Bowers hater here. If early reports are any indication, the doco on Bowers that is to be released next year features endorsements from aged interviewees that won't be good for his bood pressure!

by Anonymousreply 217December 5, 2016 12:21 PM

Can't wait!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 218December 5, 2016 12:37 PM

Danny Kaye was never attractive at any point in his lifetime.

by Anonymousreply 219December 5, 2016 1:24 PM

How the hell should I know? He never sucked MY cock.

by Anonymousreply 220December 5, 2016 1:50 PM

I simply will have to have MORE impassioned, citation-riddled (with page numbers) point-by-point rebuttals and underminings of the claims that Lord Olivier before I am convinced that a silly quibble over a notoriously ambitious and egotistical actor, lusty and neurotic and manipulative - played around with men while playing around with women.

My favorite counter-charge is the declaration that Lady Olivier OBVIOUSLY was kidding, made while ignoring the possibility that all the denunciations of the possibility of Olivier's bisexuality are OBVIOUSLY misplaced and implicitly homophobic defensiveness.

by Anonymousreply 221December 5, 2016 2:06 PM

R215 "He said that Olivier was charming and rather flirty."

From Kenneth Tyanan Diaries : " I recall what Gadge Kazan once said to me: “Above everything else, Larry is a coquette.”

by Anonymousreply 222December 5, 2016 3:15 PM

R220, When Tallulah was married to very well hung John Emery, she once led Vincent Price into their bedroom, pulled back the covers and encouraged Price to suck off a sleeping Emery.

by Anonymousreply 223December 5, 2016 3:38 PM

R220, thank you. As the Miss T. Gielgud in the mentioned post, I of course would not have known about what other Talu's may have done with Mr. Price, as I was busy living in a grace-and-favour at Hampton Court at the time and missed many of the American godsip.

by Anonymousreply 224December 5, 2016 3:49 PM

I worry about R217. He seems very gullible, a prime target for a scam artist. People like that are so vulnerable.

If there is a documentary about the repellent Scotty Bowers (and it remains to be seen if there will be) it may feature doddering elderly homos who "endorse" him. But in all likelihood the old geezers are senile or have been paid to "vouch" for Bowers, or have had their cocks sucked by Bowers and think they owe him a favor. Not exactly the most credible people in the world. But I'm sure that won't matter to clucks like R217 and R218 who apparently are willing to believe anything.

by Anonymousreply 225December 5, 2016 3:52 PM
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