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Five faces of Alice Matthews Frame on Another World

Jacqueline Courtney, Susan Harney, Wesley Pfenning, Vana Tribbey and Linda Borgeson

Watch clips below then discuss who the best Alice!

by Anonymousreply 30012/08/2017

Here is how Jacqueline Courtney found out she was no longer on the show

"I went away on vacation. In July. It's two years now. And I went off not knowing a thing, and I came back and I got a note saying, "Call Paul Rauch (who was the producer) immediately." And I called him and he said, "By the way, we're not renewing your contract. Because we've decided to go ahead with a storyline that I know you really didn't want to do. So we're not going to renew it." I said, "You mean I'm never coming back?" Eleven years of my life went into this show. He said, "No, your replacement's coming in next week."

by Anonymousreply 104/19/2016

The vile Harding Lemay hated her for the silliest and most picayune reasons. He set out to get rid of her and he managed to pull it off. It is not to Paul Rauch's credit that he allowed it to happen.

by Anonymousreply 204/19/2016

[quote] The vile Harding Lemay hated her for the silliest and most picayune reasons.

Uhm she couldn't act

by Anonymousreply 304/19/2016

She had a limited range, but she could act within those limits. That's not all that unusual, both on soaps and other media. Viewers liked her, and she had chemistry with other actors, so there were factors to her credit.

by Anonymousreply 404/19/2016

Why did everyone hate Linda Borgeson?

by Anonymousreply 504/19/2016

I liked Tribby. But she would have been better as some new character. Harney was ok too, but Jacquie owned the role.

Lemay eventually admitted he was wrong about JC. Her natural beauty and charisma, along with her tenure in the role, made her irreplaceable.

by Anonymousreply 604/19/2016

R6 and Linda Borgeson?

[quote] Lemay eventually admitted he was wrong about JC

I don't think he ever did.

by Anonymousreply 704/19/2016

He did in his book. One sentence, I believe.

by Anonymousreply 804/19/2016

[quote] He did in his book. One sentence, I believe.

Harding LeMay in 2009

Jacquie Courtney didn’t ever memorize her lines. She read them off her [sleeve] cuff. I called Paul [Rauch] the producer and said, “Why is she always looking down?” And he told me. And they were extremely difficult on the set. The producer wanted to get rid of them more than I did because I wasn’t on the set. But they created lots of problems with other actors. I am told they would sit on the sidelines and criticize other actors during rehearsals and things like that.

[Alice] was a monotonous role to write because she (Jacquie Courtney) didn’t have a wide range as an actress.

by Anonymousreply 904/19/2016

That doesn't refute what I said, r9

by Anonymousreply 1004/19/2016

R10 you need to provide a link, because from what he says in that interview, doesn't sound like he felt he was wrong.

by Anonymousreply 1104/19/2016

Or you could read his book, r11. As far as I know the complete text is not available online. You'll just have to accept being a dull normal until you read it.

by Anonymousreply 1204/19/2016

R12 actually I read the book and I don't recall him writing anything like that. All I recall is him saying her acting sucked, which he backed up in a 2009 interview, As his opinion has not changed. So unless you can back up your statement with a link, it cannot be proven.

by Anonymousreply 1304/19/2016

Like I said, dull normal, who can't even remember what she read.

by Anonymousreply 1404/19/2016

& no proof. Next

by Anonymousreply 1504/19/2016

Sorry, you'll have to read the book.

by Anonymousreply 1604/19/2016

R16 read R13

by Anonymousreply 1704/19/2016

I read it. And dismissed it.

by Anonymousreply 1804/19/2016

I read it. And dismissed it as well

by Anonymousreply 1904/19/2016

Okay sweetie. You can have the last word. I know how important that is for you straight women.

by Anonymousreply 2004/19/2016

That clip with Wesley Pfenning. What is that from - it also features Valerie Bertinelli so it is not from AW.

by Anonymousreply 2104/19/2016

I liked Linda Borgeson quite a lot. She had great chemistry with Mac. However, she had zero chemistry with David Canary, who was playing Steve Frame at that point.

My introduction to Alice was Jacquie Courtney's protrayal. She could emote with the best of them. Susan Seaforth Hayes on Days and Jacquie Courtney on AW sure knew how to play tortured heroines. You couldn't help but feel for Alice after all the things she'd gone through.

Susan Harney was a better actress than Jacquie, but she didn't have that charisma that Jacquie did. And she sure couldn't emote like Jacquie. But I grew to like her over time.

I was never fan of Wesley or Vana.

by Anonymousreply 2204/19/2016

Here's what Harding said on Harney stepping in for Courtney:

"We chose a personable, well-trained actress who resembled Miss Courtney slightly but was a far better actress. After Susan Harney's first appearance, a flood of letters insisted she could never take Jacquie's place. The fans were correct. Miss Harney played Alice with intelligence, charm and a technical variety Miss Courtney rarely displayed, but she lacked the singularity of appeal that makes certain performers stars instead of merely actors. In spite of sustained major stories for the character, Alice never regained the popularity among fans that had been hers when Miss Courtney played the role."

This is really no contest. Jacquie was Alice and she returned to the role in 1984 (the writers didn't know what to do with her); and then she came back again in 1989 for the anniversary and then again for Mac's funeral shortly thereafter. I'll try to find the last ever Alice/Rachel scene and post it.

I so wish Doug Marland had lived and left ATWT in the early 90s and returned to AW and revived the Matthews clan the way he had the Hughes family. He could have brought back Courtney and Beverly Penberthy; at least AW had one final return to the glory of the 70s in 89 with its anniversary.

by Anonymousreply 2304/19/2016

the last Rachel/Alice scene

4:13; these two had chemistry and had Alice stayed and a new man had been introduced as a rival....well. It could have been great.

by Anonymousreply 2404/19/2016

I liked Linda Borgeson as well. She had a great vulnerability to her. The writers really screwed up the return of Steve Frame. They could of had a Rachel-Steve-Mac-Alice quagmire story-line for years!

by Anonymousreply 2504/20/2016

All four of Courtney's successors were dull as dirt compared to her.

by Anonymousreply 2604/20/2016

Jacqui Courtney lasted 8 years on One Life To Live because she was in a relationship with the producer Joe Stuart. After he left to helm Loving, Jacqui thought she was safe. But that changed when Paul Rauch was hired as OLTL new EP. One of his conditions before taking the job was the firing of Jacqui, which the brass did,

Joe Stuart should of used his influence to hire Jacqui as the Ann Alden Forbes recast on Loving. But she did pop up on that show as a Madam Diane Brewster for a few weeks.

by Anonymousreply 2704/21/2016

that would have been good casting, R27; Callan White was so young looking to play mom to Jack and Lorna.

now, we know every single thing about everyone in the soap world because of social media and the remaining weekly magazines.

I didn't know about Courtney and Stuart; though I do recall not being surprised at all that Courtney left OLTL soon after Rauch came on. The whole Reinholt/Courtney leaving AW was the first time I think that the soap mags went to town on a topic like this.

by Anonymousreply 2804/21/2016

Courtney was a cunt. Hated by all at both AW and OLTL.

by Anonymousreply 2904/21/2016

Linda Borgeson is in 2nd place in the poll

by Anonymousreply 3004/21/2016

none would be my vote.

Alice was dreadful.

by Anonymousreply 3104/21/2016

Jacqui was a last-minute - almost random - choice to return to AW in 84. NBC wanted a big name vet to return for the anniversary of the show, and producers tried luring Beverlee McKinsey back. NBC and producers were pretty sure McKinsey was going to accept their exorbitant offers, but McKinsey declined, not ever really wanting to go back to the role that made her famous but she felt Iris' story had been told way past its due (and her experience with TEXAS soured her). The producers were stuck with making a promise but not having a "star name" to fill that promise. They contacted Jacqui at the last minute, despite the fact they had no clue what to do with Alice. Courtney was used primarily for publicity purposes. Despite the character's daughter reigning as the show's current heroine, they never figured out why they had Alice around, and ultimately wrote her out.

Meanwhile, McKinsey accepted the offer from Gail Kobe to come back to daytime the same year Courtney returned to AW.

I would have loved to have seen Courtney and Wyndman play out the Edward Black story. It was an awful story that rewrote history (Steven realizing he loved heroine Rachel and not Alice), but with at least two of the original performers of the classic triangle brining in real history into it, it would have been much more entertaining and significant.

by Anonymousreply 3204/21/2016

I loved Jacqueline Courtney. I think her scenes on AW are my very first soap opera memories.

From Soap Opera Digest: She was very healthy her whole life and then suddenly everything just started snowballing", reports her beloved daughter Jennifer Desiderio. "Any letter that she wrote to people recently ended with, "Stay out of the sun. Wear sunscreen," because she had no idea how bad it was, especially when it spreads. It started on her skin, but then it metastasized to her lungs and most recently to her brain. It was relatively quick from there. She had just turned 64."

by Anonymousreply 3304/21/2016

what was AW thinking that it only needed to bring back one popular vet for its anniversary?

ATWT had plenty of folks from the Hughes and Stewart clans...Susan, Lisa, etc.

But just ONE vet for AW? So dumb.

The show lost all its history save Rachel and Mac and Ada.

by Anonymousreply 3404/21/2016

B.S. on Courtney being a last minute bone for McKinssey saying no. She left OLTL in late summer 1983 and P&G was in instant contact with her to come back as Alice. Yes, they didn't have a story for her and almost all of her Matthews family (save Aunt Liz) was off the canvas. That alone made it difficult, and plus she would be playing the adoptive mother of new heroine Sally (Mary Page Keller) who was the new star of the show. Making Alice a doctor was ridiculous also. All of her romantic heroine tones were gone.

As for Lemay - he was a KNOWN drunk. His petty hatred of Courtney stemmed from pure artistic jealousy. He did not think some New Jersey actress who cared not about the theater should be venerated for a bland role like Alice. Lemay once pissed in a potted plant at a AW Christmas party, he was a piece of work.

by Anonymousreply 3504/22/2016

Lemay may have been a drunk, but Courtney was a non talent and a cunt.

by Anonymousreply 3604/22/2016

R36 based on what???

by Anonymousreply 3704/22/2016

From the five faces of Alice Frame. Jacqueline Courtney triumphant return to Another World on its 20th Anniversary. These clips have a few Rachel-Alice moments thrown in.

by Anonymousreply 3804/22/2016

From the Brava thread

"I know I'm in the minority on this, but I actually liked Linda Borgeson. I know a lot of people thought she was milquetoasty and bland, but I thought she generated a warmth and glow that her predecessors didn't have. Susan Harney was probably the best actress to play Alice, but there was something cold and distant about her. Watching some old clips on youtube, Jackie Courtney was just awful, and I can understand why Rauch/Lemay thought she was dispensable. What I don't get is how she was so wildly popular with viewers. "

by Anonymousreply 3904/22/2016

Vana Tribbey reactivated the role after the character was off the canvas for two years. The last scene in these clips is a confrontation between Alice and Rachel - Go 7:40 into video below)

Ironically it would be Vana Tribbey 2nd last scene of this episode before she was let go and replaced by Linda Borgeson. TPTB wanted the character back to being a doormat, as the writers wanted to resurrect the Alice-Steve-Rachel triangle. Thus they needed Alice back to being a passive character.

by Anonymousreply 4004/22/2016

Lemay could fart with more talent than any of these blonde whores.

by Anonymousreply 4104/22/2016

Most of you people critical of Courtney's acting, don't remember as I ELDER GAY do - the scene where Alice confronts Rachel is Russ and Rachel's apartment after the fall out of the reveal that Jamie was not Russ's son. Jacquie rocked it against Strasser that day, called her out threw things at her. It was not like that overly melodramatic scene where Alice is having a breakdown in 74 with Aunt Liz and Rachel. So all you bitches who want to slam one of the best loved heroines on soaps, don't talk what you don't know.

by Anonymousreply 4204/22/2016

R42 But Harding LeMay felt differently as he was a trained actor himself.

by Anonymousreply 4304/22/2016

Jacqui Courtney is one of those actors like Drake Hogestyn and Ron Moss. In spite of their acting limitations, they have a certain "something" that transcends bad acting and just makes the audience want to go on the ride with them.

Some of soaps greatest and most beloved characters were played by people who couldn't act (or who couldn't act outside of soaps). But they knew how to bring their characters to life. Soaps have never been about acting, they've always been about characters.

by Anonymousreply 4404/22/2016

WTF are you talking about BAD ACTING??? Jacquie was hardly as bad as Moss or Drake. This myth is so stupid and just because Pete LeMay says so??? He never got daytime, that was obvious. And it was his horrible rich people characters who went around talking like Society Page stereotypes - yes you Theresa Lamont(!) - that were just ridiculous in Bay City.

I thought Jacquie's scenes on OLTL when her son was killed by Talbot Huddleston were good; yes her twin story as Maggie was a joke and not something that was going to get her the emmy nom she wanted. But she was not a BAD actress, a bad actress is someone like Mary Lynn Blanks.

by Anonymousreply 4504/22/2016

Yes. Bad acting. I watched it. The woman wasn't a good actor, but that's okay we don't have to agree. Acting ability is subjective.

by Anonymousreply 4604/22/2016

Courtney was a TERRIBLE actress. The worst was when she played twins on OLTL. That was embarassing for her. She never recovered from that.

by Anonymousreply 4704/22/2016

From the Brava thread

" The last of those Alice clips is Linda Borgeson's reel. The last 7 minutes or so that that 15 minute clip is David Canary revealing himself to be Steve Frame to all of Bay City at a party.

While the scene focuses primarily on Alice's reaction, Rachel is in the background. And Rachel comes out at the end of the scene to comfort Steven when Alice rejects him. Seeing that reminded me of that pre-Mac Rachel who was manipulative and always chasing after Steve. "

by Anonymousreply 4804/22/2016

I don't get Courtney being singled out as a bad actress; Moss and Hogestyn are PAINFUL to watch, but yes, they had something that made them their characters (consistent writing, especially the Bells with Ridge).

Courtney was fine. Even Lemay admitted she was a star.

The scene above is not good. Alice is too demure, too soft. I did think Canary did a great job and the show was nuts to lose him. The Mac/Alice romance was rushed in order to play out Steve's return and his impact.

AW got lost; it was never the same after Beverly Penberthy left, in my humble opinion.

by Anonymousreply 4904/23/2016

As I recall from being a young kid, Alice was more assertive prior to Harding Lemay taking over. I'm not saying she was super aggressive or anything like Rachel, but Alice could stand up for herself occasionally.

Lemay wrote her as the tortured, passive heroine. Jacqueline Courtney could certainly play the hell out of that because she knew how to emote and sure knew how to make you feel her pain. But his Alice was very passive.

I remeber in 1975, after Steve Frame was killed off, one day Alice suddenly announced that she was adopting the orphaned Sally Spencer. Even as a kid, I was startled, thinking, "Wow, Alice actually can make a decision like that. I didn't she had it in her."

by Anonymousreply 5004/23/2016

Jacqueline Courtney had an ethereal and angelic beauty about her that none of her successors possessed. She and George Reinholdt (who wasn't too much of an actor either) were magic together onscreen and the only Alice and Steve who counted. David Canary, a far superior actor, never seemed like Steve Frame to me.

by Anonymousreply 5104/23/2016

Well put, R51.

It's too bad that Reinholt and Courtney and Rauch and Lemay couldn't have found a way to make it work.

One of the things that Lemay writes about in his memoir is the lack of leading men on AW.

The Rachel/Mac/Iris dynamic would have been even more interesting if Steve and Alice had stuck around.

by Anonymousreply 5204/23/2016

Jacqui got fired because she didn't want to play the Alice/Willis romance, which never made any sense to me. Why wouldn't she want to play that story?

by Anonymousreply 5304/24/2016

Maybe she was loyal to George or thought Willis was too young.

We don't know why she was really fired; perhaps TPTB felt that once George was gone they could more easily lose Jacqui.

To me, Jacqui showed she still had the chops in 1989 when she returned to the show for its 25th anniversary and then Mac's funeral.

The show was nuts not to ask her to stay, rejuvenate the Matthews clan and re-ignite an Alice/Rachel feud over another man. They had history with not only Steve, but Mac, too, given Alice's brief engagement to Mac, which all could have been used in a new triangle.

I don't get all this stuff that Jacqui wasn't a good actress; she was solid. Even Lemay, her harshest critic, admitted she was a star.

by Anonymousreply 5404/24/2016

As gorgeous as John Fitzpatrick was a Willis, from what I recall reading somewhere (perhaps Lemay's memoir), he was something of creep. He got fired about 18 months into his run as Willis. Perhaps Jacqui sensed what a creep he was and didn't want him for her leading man.

by Anonymousreply 5504/24/2016

What I remember Courtney saying was that the Willis character was a devious weakling and how could Alice, so soon after losing Steven, fall for someone like that? If jacquie had stayed, she would have had chemistry with David Ackroyd who played Dave Gilchrist. That is her acting partner type. I don't think her Alice would have fallen for Ray Gordon, even though they tried to wrap that up in a neat bow since he was Sally's bio uncle. And don't get me started on crazy Beatrice - the wonderful Jacqueline Brookes, a woman who looked like she never met a comb for her hair and was just all around dirty looking.

by Anonymousreply 5604/25/2016

[quote] acqui got fired because she didn't want to play the Alice/Willis romance, which never made any sense to me. Why wouldn't she want to play that story?

She also said she objected to an Alice-Mac romance. Though she wasn't on Another World when the writers decided to pair those two characters together, she said she thought the pairing was 'incestuous' (her word)

by Anonymousreply 5704/25/2016

[quote] Even Lemay, her harshest critic, admitted she was a star.

But he felt she was a lousy actress. There might have been diva behaviour behind the scenes by Jacqui. In the oral history of One Life To Live some cast members 'hinted' at diva like behavior by her. & she could get away with it because she was in a relationship with the producer (Joe Stuart)

by Anonymousreply 5804/25/2016

Weren't she and George Reinholt one of the most popular soap opera couples of all time? I remember a clip of them from some "%0 Years of Soaps" special. The clip just showed a scene where Steve is leaving her (I don't know the circumstances behind that). She says "I can't let you go like this" and he says "will you do me a favor? Would you smile for me?" She manages a little smile. He then kisses her tenderly and says simply "I love you." She says shakily "I love you", and they kiss again. Then he turns away (great resigned, grim look on his face when he does that) and a guy opens the door for and he walks out, the guy following him and quietly closing the door. The camera then closes in on Alice's face; she's totally stricken, but trying to hold it together. I'm not a soap opera fan by any means, but I found that scene very moving. The problem I had with it was the very ugly dress that Courtney wearing. It looked like a test pattern. What were the wardrobe people thinking, dressing the beautiful Jacquie Courtney in such a rag?

by Anonymousreply 5904/25/2016

More likely there was jealousy on the part of some of the OLTL regulars and no doubt Jacquie's relationship with Joe Stuart made it worse. Ellen Holly - a crazy lady who was also victimized by Rauch - wrote bitchy comments about Jacquie's acting. Erika Slezak also saw the writing on the wall and when Lee Patterson left to join AW, Vicki was without Joe - and it opened acting doors for her. One Life in the late 70's had Courtney, Slezak and Kathy Glass, all of whom had amazingly high 'Q" ratings, all of them in the top five. That's pretty impressive.

by Anonymousreply 6004/25/2016

Courtney was a cunt. NOT a nice person. I met her. I'm glad that she's dead. Karma got her.

by Anonymousreply 6104/25/2016

And karma will no doubt get YOU, R61. You sound like quite a cunt yourself.

by Anonymousreply 6204/25/2016

R62 So what? Karma is a bitch and that fucking cunt Courtney got it. She was a complete bitch and a non talent. I'm here and she's not. That fucking cunt.

by Anonymousreply 6304/25/2016

After she left AW she focused on building a career as a voice over actress.

by Anonymousreply 6404/25/2016

[quote] I'm glad that she's dead. Karma got her.

Karma must be on a union-mandated lunch break, since it hasn't come to snatch your fat ass yet.

by Anonymousreply 6504/25/2016

There is clearly a Jacqueline Courtney Stan on this thread. Which makes me very happy, because only on DL will you find a Jacqui Courtney stan still alive.

by Anonymousreply 6604/25/2016

Jackie was not a good actress. But she was styled beautifully her first few years on OLTL and shone in every scene she was in. She had that star quality. i can see why the ever-matronly Sleestak and that Holly woman were envious.

by Anonymousreply 6704/25/2016

Ellen Holly was really funny thinking OLTL owed her anything. She had a big story, but nothing else for the rest of her run and her continued presence in the cast indicated she was just filler.

by Anonymousreply 6804/26/2016

Ellen said Erika Slezak got all the close-ups at her (Carla) TV wedding. Her wedding and Erika got all the close-ups!

by Anonymousreply 6904/26/2016

Holly has an axe to grind with Nixon too. She claims that Agnes used her to get publicity and ratings when the show premiered and then cast her asde when mission accomplished. She's probably got a point there, but in the end it was a business. After Rauch fired Holly, Agnes wanted to move Carla over to Loving but evidently Holly took that as some sort of insult too, as that show was never successful and would have been considered a come down.

by Anonymousreply 7004/26/2016


by Anonymousreply 7104/26/2016

WEHT Susan Harney?

by Anonymousreply 7204/26/2016

What was the comment that Sleestak made about black people on Llanview? Holly really seemed to jump on that.

by Anonymousreply 7304/26/2016

I think it was "Why aren't they at Llanfair dusting my furniture and ironing my sheets?"

by Anonymousreply 7404/26/2016

“Several months ago Jeff Giles published a book entitled, Llanview in the Afternoon – An Oral History of One Life to Live. It is available digitally as well as hard copies that are printed-on-demand. There are things that Ellen Holly said in the book regarding Erika that are completely untrue and so we would like to clear this up so that you can know the truth. On November 7, Erika emailed the author of this book who quickly responded and agreed that he would edit the piece and allow Erika’s response and refutation of the lies. So, henceforth, in both the digital and hard copies, Erika will set the record straight, but if you already have either version of the book, please know that the quotes attributed to Erika from Ellen Holly, are absolutely not true.”

Erika asked we share her response to Ellen Holly’s allegations regarding OLTL’s 15th anniversary party at Tavern on the Green: “Let me begin by saying that never happened. I have never, in my entire life, used such language, nor would I have ever said that; especially about two ladies who I greatly admired and respected. I have no idea why Ellen has chosen to blame me for her being let go from One Life to Live. Not only is that an absolute fabrication on her part; it was never in the power of ANY actor or actress to make such a decision and anyone who has worked on One Life to Live would know that. We were owned and run by ABC; this was their decision alone. Furthermore, I would like to add that Ellen Holly was a wonderful actress, a beautiful woman and an essential and vital character on One Life to Live and there was nothing to be gained by her leaving the show. In fact I felt that her absence was detrimental to the show. Agnes Nixon had put together an amazing, multi-racial cast, which was groundbreaking at the time, and by losing two very important black actors, ABC was robbing the show of its diversity. I am very sorry that she has deluded herself into believing that I was in any way instrumental in her being fired, but more than that, I am appalled that she would accuse me of using racial slurs.” ..

by Anonymousreply 7504/26/2016

In the recently-published book, Llanview In The Afternoon: An Oral History Of ONE LIFE TO LIVE, actress Ellen Holly (ex-Carla) accusing former castmate Erika Slezak (Viki) of getting her fired off the soap in the '80s. According to Holly, at an anniversary party at Tavern On The Green, Slezak told the soap's creator Agnes Nixon, "Get those two black bitches out of my face," referring to Holly and Lillian Hayman (ex-Sadie).

See above R75 for Erika response

by Anonymousreply 7604/26/2016

From an acting/portrayal standpoint, I actually preferred Susan Harney. The subsequent Alices, however (Wesley Ann Pfennig, Vana Tribbey, Linda Borgeson), really didn't work on any level. Pfennig was just completely wrong for the part, although I suspect she was a good actress. Tribbey was also a good actress, I thought, but she was too, what, harsh?, I guess, for Alice (I guess you would say she had an edge that the character previously had not had), and Borgeson, though closer to what the character had been, was just rather bland and never excited much interest in Alice or what she was doing.

by Anonymousreply 7704/26/2016

Our dear beloved Vikki Sleestack has rarely had any controversy. What the fuck was that cunt Ellen Holly thinking when she made up those lies???

by Anonymousreply 7804/26/2016

Steestak has Stated Her Boundaries!

I suppose it's possible she could have said that, but everyone loves Erika, and she's never been the source of rumors about diva behavior, at all. I agree that it's insane to think she could have ever said such things.

(Yes, I know, it's an Alice Frame thread, just tying up that tangent.)

by Anonymousreply 7904/26/2016

The trouble with Tribbey-yeah, SOMEONE had to pull that-was that she just wasn't Alice. She would have been fine as Dr. Olivia, the role that Tina Sloan played. In that extended scene with Wyndham Tribbey's southern accent popped out when the conversation became heated.

by Anonymousreply 8004/26/2016

When Judith Light got popular on OLTL it seemed to get to Jacquie Courtney. All the EMMY talk for Light and Courtney had never been nominated. Slezak and Strasser cast their lot with Light because Slezak was jealous of the attention Courtney was getting in the soap press. When Lee Patterson was killed off as Joe, Vicki started getting more action and Slezak was polling higher than Courtney.

As for Ellen Holly's tv weddings as Carla. The one in 1979 when Vicki was her Matron of Honor - why?- was nothing compared to when Carla married Ed in 1973 on Anna and Jim Craig's patio. All of the other (white) characters were zoomed in on while Carla and Ed recited their vows - and their thoughts and fears were played out in their heads. It was all about Vicki, Joe, Eileen, Anna, Larry etc. - they dressed up Ellen real nice in a white gown and veil (she was close to 40 at this point) but it was not a show for Ed or Carla. That had to hurt.

by Anonymousreply 8104/27/2016

I loved the character of Carla and the whole Imitation of Life type storyline with Carla and her mother. Also loved Carla and Ed together. I thought Ellen Holly was so pretty. I remember her and Ed adopting a child who was a young Laurence Fishburne.

by Anonymousreply 8204/27/2016

Jacqueline created some drama on the set on OLTL, but it was passive aggressive stuff. And when she started fucking Joe, the gloves were off. George Reinholt created a mess when he arrived and sort of validated what Rauch had been saying about him. George had demons, poor guy.

by Anonymousreply 8304/27/2016

I remember an ET segment about George Reinholt. He'd fallen so far that he was renting himself out as an "escort" for ladies who wanted a night out with a "celebrity" and living in a converted garage. He'd once been a very popular soap star; what the hell happened? Was he THAT hard to deal with? His acting was erratic, but he could be incredibly good sometimes. During the ET segment it shows him inside his garage apartment and there's a photo of him and Jacquie Courtney on the wall. I guess the period where he was Steve and she was Alice was the best time of his life. I thought that was so sad. Both of them are gone now. I guess now Steve and Alice are together forever.

by Anonymousreply 8404/27/2016

Ellen Holly had to watch NUMEROUS actresses pass her on the show. Lynn Benish, Gillian Spencer, Francessca James, Lee Warrick, Dorrie Kavanaugh, Nancy Pinkerton - the list goes on and on. By the time Slezak replaced Joanne Dorian (who had replaced the pregnant and departing Spencer) Carla was just Jim's secretary. Being parents to Hubcap did nothing for Ed and Carla. Ed was always involved in police work and the show missed many opportunities to showcase Ellen. She was a beautiful woman who could act circles around most of those white girls. But she talked too much and that made her enemy no. 1 to ABC. I think the network was afraid to fire her and then Rauch - king of the assholes who was probably told HE had to do it, well a sadist like Rauch that is like buttering his bread. I'm sure he enjoyed what he did to Holly and Lilyan Hayman.

by Anonymousreply 8504/27/2016

And interesting, R85, how closely Vicki Rowell's experience tracked Holly's.

by Anonymousreply 8604/27/2016

so let me get this straight: Courtney did a great job (acting) in the 50 years of soaps clip, she was on the top of the polls for years, even after she left AW; she delivered, she had presence, she had star quality. She and Reinholt were magic and often referred to as the industry's 'first supercouple'

But she couldn't 'act'.

Got it.

by Anonymousreply 8704/27/2016

R87 you got it. Some have charisma and star quality, but can't act their way out of paper bag, Look at Julia Roberts, she jumps out of the screen and has super mega-watt star quality. But directors like Herbert Ross said she can't act.

by Anonymousreply 8804/27/2016

Holly was a fuckin CUNT.

by Anonymousreply 8904/27/2016

Acting ability is not necessary for star quality. Never has been. Never will be. Especially on soaps. It's not a putdown of Jacqueline Courtney. It's just truth as some see it.

As for Ellen Holly, she like George Reinholdt, also had demons. The difference is George started believing his own press and over-valued his worth to the show. Ellen's are more complicated.

It does sound like Ellen encountered some racism and perhaps some promises were broken during her daytime career. I don't think that's out of the norm for the late 60 through 70s for black actors. Some chose to keep quiet and stay employed. Some were more vocal about it. She probably could never understand how she went from a front burner story and character in the beginning to a supporting character. Basically a talk to for all the white female leads. I believe Holly always says glowing things about Gillian Spencer. I just think the Erika Slezak isn't a touchy feely type and the two didn't gel and Ellen turned it into racism. There are reports about several actors having issues with Slezak over the years. Slezak was fine and outlasted them all, but Gillian Spencer played the fuck out of that role, in a very nuanced, not showy performance which brought that character to life.

Back to Ellen Holly. I think that after Agnes left, Ellen felt she lost her champion, then turned on her. Which confirms the various backstage reports and history books that say once ABC greenlighted All My Children, Agnes was gone and didn't look back. I don't think anyone told Ellen that ABC wanted to move the show away from class, race and ethnic struggles in a small mainline town to something more akin to what the other soaps were doing. She probably felt a little lost and a lot betrayed, but liked the steady check and just remained until Rauch ended it.

by Anonymousreply 9004/27/2016

Ellen Holly is hardly the only African American actor on soaps to feel discriminated against. Victoria Rowell has certainly been vocal about it. Debbie Morgan left AMC in 1990 to move over to Generations where she would be the lead acttress because the show has a black family as a core family. Many other have left shows when they felt their characters weren't being used and the shows had no long term commitment to the characters.

As a white male, I cannot begin to judge their experience because I haven't walked in their shoes. As a gay man, I can relate to the discrimination they talk about better than any straight man can. But I still am in no position to pass judgement on them or their claims

by Anonymousreply 9104/27/2016

[quote] Julie Pinson and Amelia Heinle

Egads, bringing the two human tampons who suck all life, joy and humanity out of a scene into this?

Courtney may not have been Hepburn, but agreed, she had some star quality. The two skanks mentioned above have good agents, maybe, and that's about it. They were blowing the right dick or eating the right muff.

by Anonymousreply 9204/27/2016

Whatever was going on backstage, Courtney gelled with the OLTL cast. She had great chemistry with many of the actors and was very popular. Whats is the story with her and Bob Woods. The show was grooming them as a supercouple but that was suddenly dropped. I think I remember him saying something about her years later that they just didn't like each other. So what was the story with them?

by Anonymousreply 9304/27/2016

R93 Courtney was a cunt to everyone, including Woods. The OLTL cast HATED her. HATED. She only lasted because she gave Joe Stuart blowjobs.

by Anonymousreply 9404/28/2016

Courtney had strong friendships at OLTL with Jennifer Harmon, Nancy Pinkerton, Dorrie Kavanaugh, Linda Dano and she and Strasser were tight for a longtime there. When Judith Light started taking off, that's when Jacquie's nose got out of joint. I don't think Jacquie was ever a pretentious actress, she could care less about the theater or going out to the coast to do guest spots on Magnum PI or whatever. She knew where she was a shining star. She'd done a TON of live tv when she was a very young girl, she was the spokesmodel for the Tammy Doll (Barbie's rival) and she was on Edge of Night, Our Five Daughters - she had a resume.

I think she learned a lot watching actresses like Susan Sullivan on AW; Susan knew how to flirt with Paul Rauch to get what she wanted and it went no further. Jacquie probably loved having Joe Stuart laud her and what a difference from what happened with Rauch. Maybe she lost perspective and hard feelings from her co-workers started. The infamous 1979 Paris remote was largely seen as a working vacation for Jacquie and Joe, Bob Woods along for the ride. I"m sure Woodsie saw things that went back to all of his co-stars and the resentment starting in full.

by Anonymousreply 9504/28/2016

I don't know if this is the case or if it developed later on, but Bob Woods had a thing about the types of actresses he was paired with. He preferred them much younger.

Joe Stuart wasn't as handsome as Paul Rauch, but I'm sure she took note of what was going on over at AW and decided to make sure that kind of thing would never happen again. I would say it's a safe bet to speculate that JC would have been the star of OLTL through the end of its run, if Rauch wouldn't have come over. She would have probably remained on the show and been the matriarch, or essentially what the Viki character became.

by Anonymousreply 9604/28/2016

[quote] I would say it's a safe bet to speculate that JC would have been the star of OLTL through the end of its run, if Rauch wouldn't have come over. She would have probably remained on the show and been the matriarch, or essentially what the Viki character became.

If that is the case then why did Judith Light, Erika Slezak & Robin Strasser both win Emmys while Joe Stuart was EP while Jacqui wasn't even nominated! NOt even once. She barely had any storyline, and was mostly a sounding board to the character of Viki.

Her character Pat Ashley had no ties nor was the character 'connected' to a family (despite marrying Tony Lord at the very end of her run). She wasn't a tent-pole character, which is why the character was so easily jettisoned out of Llanview. She only lasted 8 years because of her relationship with Joe Stuart.

by Anonymousreply 9704/28/2016

[quote] The infamous 1979 Paris remote was largely seen as a working vacation for Jacquie and Joe, Bob Woods along for the ride.

A working vacation? Woods said it was like making a home movie! He said the filming was very primitive, as they were changing costumes in the back seat of a car!

by Anonymousreply 9804/28/2016

Well, you know it was Paris.

by Anonymousreply 9904/28/2016

When Jackie joined OLTL, the show was not was doing well in the ratings and was going through an identity crisis, trying to remain true to its diverse roots, yet become more attractive to a broader range of viewers. Most of ABC daytime was in free fall, except for AMC and RH. I think Jackie was hoping to become the queen bee on a show that was more of an ensemble with no huge breakout stars. Although Sleestak wasn't really positioned as the "star" or center of OLTL till the mid-80s, she probably saw herself as queen bee and most likely resented Jackie and her brightly shining star.

by Anonymousreply 10004/28/2016

R100 are you serious? Slezak has always said if she were to only work 1 day a week she would be thrilled. She had two children and couldn't care less with being the star of the show. She would rather be home, taking care of her kids. In fact she took a 9 month maternity leave and was temporarily replaced by Christine Jones.

If she didn't have to be at the studio, she didn't want to be there.

by Anonymousreply 10104/28/2016

r101, I don't mean "queen bee" as in thinking she's the central diva that the show can't get on without, like Zimmer probably saw herself, but more like the face of OLTL, the glue of the show. I can imagine that Courtney's arrival threatened her a bit. Not to mention that OLTL at that time was a very low-key ensemble show compared to some other soaps, and I can also imagine that all the fanfare that came with Jackie and George's arrival ("follow Alice and Steve over to their new home in Llanview") couldn't have been easy for some of the vets to digest. From what I've heard about Erika, she's a lovely, no-nonsense person, but everyone has a little bit of an ego.

by Anonymousreply 10204/28/2016

OLTL in the early 80's was a stressful set. So many leading diva's to contend with. Courtney, Sleestack, Strasser, Light, Holly etc. My friend was an eletrician there and said that there were plenty of power struggles. Joe Stuart was not good at controlling the leading ladies.

by Anonymousreply 10304/28/2016

I think that Slezak and Strasser were truly happy for Judith Light's success. There's a clip on youtube of Light winning her first Emmy, and Strasser looks sincerely thrilled for her. Strasser was practically beaming, and she was a fellow nominee! I think they liked Judith, and Judith, despite her success, was not a diva, was genuinely taken aback by her own success, and probably knew her place in the pecking order. Courtney and Holly, on the other hand... Courtney had an ally in Joe Stuart, but poor Ellen was left to fend on her own. Ellen supposedly LOATHED Arthur Burghardt, who was brought on as her new love interest Dr. Jack Scott.

by Anonymousreply 10404/28/2016

[quote] Although Sleestak wasn't really positioned as the "star" or center of OLTL till the mid-80s, she probably saw herself as queen bee and most likely resented Jackie and her brightly shining star.

A lot of the OLTL chat has made me look back at the Llanview book that came out a few years ago.

La Sleestak on Courtney: "Joe Stuart was very fond of Jacqueline Courtney, and he made sure to put her front and center. At that point, I was fine with it, because I didn’t have a need to be on every day. Jackie and George Reinholt had been the big stars on Another World, and I was happy to have a little time off every now and then."

La Sleestak on Ellen Holly and Arthur Burghardt: "Ellen was miserable with Arthur, because he was awful. He was obnoxious and irritating, and he thought he was this really big, hot shit guy. Anybody would have hated working with him, but Ellen was particularly angry because it was her story -- she had outlined and written it herself, and she had begged Joe not to hire him."

by Anonymousreply 10504/28/2016

Thanks for the dish, r105. OLTL was in deep trouble when Courtney was hired, so Slezak and the rest should've been grateful for the publicity it brought the show. I'm not sure Courtney and Reinholt did much for the ratings, though. OLTL and GH were barely hanging by a thread in 1977/78. Ultimately what saved it was being positioned in most markets between the red-hot AMC, which would shoot to #1 in 1978/79, and the increasingly popular GH. And they were smart enough to run the mesmerizing Karen Wolek storyline, which master HW Gordon Russell slowly had envelop the entire cast, and it really entranced viewers. Arthur Burghardt sounds like a piece of work. If Slezak doesn't like you, then you know you're an asshole.

by Anonymousreply 10604/28/2016

It's one thing to say you'd be happy working one day a week, who wouldn't be happy with that, and realizing that one day a week means marginalized and easy to heave ho.

Sleestack is talking about an ideal that was never a comfortable place to be in reality.

by Anonymousreply 10704/28/2016

R107 = Ellen Holly

by Anonymousreply 10804/28/2016

I just found this. It must be the first opening from the classic 80s theme, because Ellen Holly and even more surprisingly Lillian Hayman appears in it. For some reason I thought they were long gone by the time this opening appeared.

by Anonymousreply 10904/28/2016

R108 = big fat Justin/Will posting on DL with one hand, popping those big pimples on his fat ass with the other.

by Anonymousreply 11004/28/2016

OLTL Ratings for r100

1970-71 -- #15 (out of 18), 6.5

1971-72 -- #13 (out of 17), 7.3

1972-73 -- #7 (out of 17), 8.3

1973-74 -- #8 (out of 16), 7.8

1974-75 -- #11 (out of 14), 7.4

1975-76 -- #11 (out of 14), 6.8

1976-77 -- #8 (out of 15), 7.3

1977-78 -- #7 (out of 14), 7.2

1978-79 -- #6 (out of 14), 8.0

1979-80 -- #4 (out of 13), 8.7

1980-81 -- #3 (out of 13), 9.1

1981-82 -- #3 (out of 14), 9.3

1982-83 -- #3 (out of 13), 8.1

1983-84 -- #4 (out of 13), 8.2

1984-85 -- #5 (out of 14), 7.3

Courtney and Reinholt joined the show in the 1975-76 season

OLTL expanded to 45 minutes on July 23, 1976 (GH expanded to 45 minuets that same day)

OLTL expanded to 60 minutes on Jan 16, 1978 (GH expanded to 60 minutes that same day)

by Anonymousreply 11104/28/2016

The one interesting thing about that opening is that Slezak doesn't appear first or last. Asa is first. I'm not sure who the actress is who appears in the last spot.

by Anonymousreply 11204/28/2016

During the phenomenal years of Luke and Laura on GH , OLTL benefited from being on the same network. In those days, most viewers stuck with one network for soaps. GH was no. 1 and AMC, was no 2. I have never thought OLTL was that great after its first few years. When the Buchanans showed up, the show was ruined, IMO.

by Anonymousreply 11304/29/2016

After the Marco Dane murder trial ended, the show began to go off the rails. All of those awful storylines: Jenny/Katrina baby switch, the Ivan Kipling brain chip implant stuff, the Buchanan invasion, and that masquerade ball that lasted six months! Ratings did fall, but remained decent because it was sandwiched between two far more successful shows and because its major competition in the major markets (AW & ATWT) were in ratings slumps, particularly AW. Although it was probably ABC's strongest soap when it was cancelled, there's a reason it was known as the red-headed stepchild for many years. It really didn't come into its own until the mid-80s with the Viki/Tina rivalry.

by Anonymousreply 11404/29/2016

When Paul Rauch came on was the golden age with Time Travel, Out of body experience, Eterna, soap within a soap storyline.

by Anonymousreply 11504/29/2016

OLTL defined completely OTT, no rules, camp 80's soap. There was really no other show like it, but I think it spent most of its life trying to escape all of that. Carlivati and Valentini came aboard and said what the hell and tried to return the soap to its glory camp days. They were pretty successful at it. They tried the same formula with GH and miserably failed.

by Anonymousreply 11604/29/2016

This is the scene R59 remembers. I had forgotten how melodramatic the music was back in the day.

by Anonymousreply 11704/29/2016

I still say that when NBC moved AW from it's 3 PM Eastern slot, that's when things started going to shit. For many years NBC was successful with Days, Doctors and Another World. They added other soaps, but they never broke up that trio. When they did, everything started coming undone. Days rallied after awhile, the Doctors didn't, and AW had moments but was never the same.

Also, back then, each soap had it's own identity. Even when they copied other shows (YR's dark lighting and pretty people) ATWT was still ATWT, AW was still AW, SFT was still SFT. It probably wasn't until Days became a GH clone did soaps begin reinventing themselves to what was popular.

by Anonymousreply 11804/29/2016

Exapnding AW to 90 minutes was one of the worst things that ever happened to the show. But when it reverted to 60 minutes, moving it to 2 p.m. instead of its traditional 3 p.m. time slot was definitely a huge nail in the coffin.

by Anonymousreply 11904/29/2016

R110 = Jamey Giddens' cellulite

by Anonymousreply 12004/29/2016

[quote] When Paul Rauch came on was the golden age

uh, no.

by Anonymousreply 12104/29/2016

R88, I'm not saying I don't disagree with you. But Julia Roberts has an Oscar

There are stars who can't act but they read lines and appear on screen; what I don't get is why Courtney is singled out?

by Anonymousreply 12204/29/2016

Giddens is such a slob. He flew out for L.A. for the emmys and had to buy 2 seats.

by Anonymousreply 12304/29/2016

What did in NBC daytime was ABC's steep climb in the ratings in 1978-1979, and the complete collapse of NBC prime time. It can't be overstated that NBC's prime time failure impacted its daytime schedule to a huge extent. ABC saw the same thing happen to them, though to a lesser extent, around 1984, when its prime time lineup started going south. All the ABC daytime shows saw a decline in ratings in 1984.

by Anonymousreply 12404/29/2016

R124 has a point. NBC's situation was dire for a few years. Manimal and all that.

by Anonymousreply 12504/29/2016

[quote]Julia Roberts has an Oscar

Yes she does, but acting awards (and I'm not telling any trade secrets here) are not always about acting.

And yes R124 does have a point. NBC's current primetime lineup woes is probably why Days is still on the air. But I don't think we can discount what damage the 90 minute episodes and the time slot change did to AW.

by Anonymousreply 12604/29/2016

All this talk about Jacquie Courtney being a "bad actress" is pretty funny, considering that most soap opera actors can't act worth shit. It seems that what constitutes "good" soap opera acting is pure ham, a lot of overblown emoting. Judith Light was considered a 'good" actress, but actually she was embarrassing to watch, always screaming, gesticulating with her hands, pulling at her hair, weeping with abandon. In some soap opera rag, fans of Anthony Geary said he was as good an actor as Robert DeNiro or Al Pacino or Dustin Hoffman! But he was as bad as Light, what with his exaggerated facial expressions and penchant for throwing and smashing things. Courtney's acting was much more understated. But that doesn't make her a "bad" actress.

by Anonymousreply 12704/29/2016

Jacqui TV daughter Mary Page Keller (Sally) said of her time "acting" on Another World

"If you can memorize lines, look natural and speak English, you can do a soap."

by Anonymousreply 12804/30/2016

Keller's comments are a little harsh especially since they surrounded her with tried and true actors like Irene Dailey, Jackie Courtney, Anna Stuart, Lewis Arlt, Sharon Gabet and others. Soaps are like acting boot camp and you really need balls of steel to be successful in the genre.

by Anonymousreply 12904/30/2016

Just found a 1973 afternoon Tv mg that had Jacqui winning an award for best single sequence for Nightclub Scene in St Croix and standing next to her is the man who wrote the scene Pete Lemay! Also in the mg it is said Icky Wynfham used to tour with Lily Tomlin?

by Anonymousreply 13004/30/2016

[quote] Keller's comments are a little harsh especially since they surrounded her with tried and true actors like Irene Dailey, Jackie Courtney, Anna Stuart, Lewis Arlt, Sharon Gabet and others.

With the exception of Irene Dailey what do they all have in common. Their imdb profiles show they have done nothing but act on soaps.

by Anonymousreply 13104/30/2016

[quote] Keller's comments are a little harsh

Thomas Ian Griffin (Caitlin) is even more harsh saying

"You don't have to be a good actress to do soap opera," he says, "so people who have other things going on in their lives stand out."

by Anonymousreply 13204/30/2016

r131, Anna Stuart is a goddess among mortals. She is a wonderful actress who can elevate even the worst material. Keller and Griffith were damn lucky to be around her.

by Anonymousreply 13304/30/2016

R133 yeah but Keller & Griffith had the better career, while Stuart has only done soaps her entire life.

by Anonymousreply 13404/30/2016

C'mon guys, let's be reasonable here. I love soaps. But the speed at which soaps are done does not create an environment for good acting. A very, very small handful of actors in the last 60 years have managed to rise above the material and give some great performances. Think of all of the so-called soap opera greats, they were great at soap opera acting very few were able to do anything other than soaps. And yes, I do realize that a lot of actors chose soaps because it allowed them the ability to have a steady paycheck and a stable life. That's fine and good, but soap opera acting is essentially, memorizing your lines, hitting your marks, and trying to make outlandish stories relatable to the viewers.

Soaps are a great training ground. You learn how to memorize quickly and you learn how to hit you marks, and you learn how to work in an ensemble. Any actor who wants a real career will do soaps 3 to 5 years top and then get the fuck out. You can bank some and get a reel, and luckily soaps no longer have the stigma they once did.

Your Jacquie Courtneys, Kim Zimmers, Slezaks, Reinholdts, Wyndhams, Hubbards are fine in the context of the soap world, but that kind of acting doesn't translate anywhere else. Susan Lucci made her career not from acting, but by losing the Daytime Emmy awards so many times. Yes, everyone loved Erica Kane and her crazy antics, but everyone knows Susan Lucci can't act. Every outside project and every project post AMC is some version of Erica Kane.

by Anonymousreply 13504/30/2016

[quote] That's fine and good, but soap opera acting is essentially, memorizing your lines, hitting your marks, and trying to make outlandish stories relatable to the viewers.

I don't disagree with this or what Kellar said (although she could have been a little more gracious to an entire industry - I wonder if she said that when she thought she was going to be the next sitcom sweetheart), but I do think the soap stars that were the big fish in their little pond had a special skill about making their outlandish stories relatable They might not have been great actors, but had something that allowed people to feel a connection to them.

I also won't argue that Lucci is a good actress and she is basically a character actress in the Erica Kane mode. I do think she has actually done a decent job of making her Devious Maids character different from Erica. The character has a lot of Erica's traits and some Erica moments, but I do think she has actually created a different character than just a nicer version of Erica. While her role on Hot and Cleveland was a fictional version of herself that was part her part Erica -- I thought she did a good job with that as well. She can do camp which is easier said than done. I think her comedic skills are why she still gets some roles along with her name recognition for when someone needs a soap diva type. Again, don't think she is a great actress, but I do think she has some skills (and has made some savvy decisions) that have given her a lengthy career.

by Anonymousreply 13604/30/2016

To be fair there have been a handful of really good actors over the years on soaps that gave some damn good performances. I'm not talking about the hammy usual suspects like Slezak or Zimmer or Hubbard or McKinsey or Zaslow, but people like Larry Bryggman, Helen Gallagher, Charita Bauer, Henderson Forsythe, Don MacLaughlin, Mary Fickett, Larry Haines, and Frances Reid come to mind. They were just really good actors who could deliver low-key nuanced performances without going over the top with "look at me" acting.

by Anonymousreply 13704/30/2016

I remember when Kim Delaney first came on AMC. She was astonishingly, incredibly bad, like a kid in a high school play. She could not act at all. No wonder; she was a model, not an actress. She had a look that translated well to soaps so she got the role of Jenny. But old my God, did her pathetic acting suck.

I never saw what the big deal was about David Canary, either. His acting, while not bad, was not that good, either. But he was considered this incredibly talented actor. And he always looked so fucking old! Even when he wasn't old, he still looks old. And as gray-haired and wrinkled as he was, women, much YOUNGER women, were always falling in love with him. I always thought that was so ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 13804/30/2016

I thought David Canary was a good actor, but did not think he was as good as the press made him out to be. He was good as Adam, but I always felt his Stuart was overrated - it was how someone in high school would play someone mentally challenged. For the most part, Stuart did not come off as a real person- and to be honest, could be cloying and annoying.

I thought Canary worked well with Barr and Lucci and Walker (who looked older than her age when paired with him). but he seemed like a lecherous old man with Gloria and Annie. I was not watching much by the time he was paired with Annie, but when I did see them together I felt sorry for Canary, because it really did make him seem old and feeble (I think his health might have been starting to go south by that point).

by Anonymousreply 13904/30/2016

Wait a sec...

In what world did Thomas Ian Griffith have a great career where he demonstrated such acting skills after Another World?

by Anonymousreply 14004/30/2016

Two people that come to mind as supposed great actors who are not: Erika Slezak and Tony Geary. I have yet to see a great Erika Slezak performance, and the bitch has something like 6 Emmys. Same for Tony Geary, He was one of the most popular actors in the industry and all he could get was a Fat Boys movie. No wonder he came running back to soaps.

by Anonymousreply 14104/30/2016

[quote] Judith Light was considered a 'good" actress, but actually she was embarrassing to watch

This must be the same brain-dead, smelly cunt who thought Beverlee McKinsey was tepid, at best.

by Anonymousreply 14204/30/2016

Canary as Far Wind the Manson like cult leader was ham and cheese.

by Anonymousreply 14304/30/2016

"This must be the same brain-dead, smelly cunt who thought Beverlee McKinsey was tepid, at best."

No. I don't even know who Beverlee McKinsey is. And if anybody is brain-dead, smelly and a cunt it's you, you brain-dead, smelly cunt.

by Anonymousreply 14404/30/2016

What about Adam and Dixie? Wasn't Dixie a teenager when she first came on the show? Canary looked at least fifty even back then. And Adam knocked up the poor little country girl. It was so...gross.

by Anonymousreply 14504/30/2016

[quote]No. I don't even know who Beverlee McKinsey is.

Why would someone who doesn't know who Bev is be posting on Another World thread?

by Anonymousreply 14604/30/2016

Honestly, and no disrespect, but Bev McKinsey was just laughable IMO. Have been rewatching some of the AW's from the late 70s on youtube, and my god, I find her performances cringeworthy. Way too mannered and affected. I suppose that highly stylistic method of acting worked back then, but it is does not hold up to contemporary standards. Same with Doug Watson, and omg Connie Ford who played to deaf people in the cheap, cheap seats.

by Anonymousreply 14704/30/2016

[quote] In what world did Thomas Ian Griffith have a great career where he demonstrated such acting skills after Another World?

He played Rock Hudson in a TV movie, has had recurring roles on Wiseguy and One Tree Hill and is now focusing on script writing. He is currently a writer on the TV show Grimm (NBC)

And Anna Stuart has done since All My Children has been....?

by Anonymousreply 14804/30/2016

Being Mrs. James Cromwell and doing a damn fine job of it.

by Anonymousreply 14904/30/2016

R149 she married up now that no soaps will hire her.

by Anonymousreply 15004/30/2016

Again, if people are tearing McKinsey and Stuart to shreds, this is a collection of people who cannot, in any way, be taken seriously.

Not even for a second.

by Anonymousreply 15104/30/2016

[quote} this is a collection of people who cannot, in any way, be taken seriously.

We are talking about soap acting here, not Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts or even the Actors Studio

by Anonymousreply 15204/30/2016

I love Bev McKinsey. I think she is one of the best actresses to appear on soaps. I think it's criminal that she never won an Emmy. But I'm also an adult and realize that acting ability is subjective. Just because I think she's great, it doesn't mean someone else can't think she's horrible. Someone else's opinion doesn't change mine, so I'm not sure why all the teeth gnashing because someone doesn't think she's great.

by Anonymousreply 15304/30/2016

Posters here are unanimous that Bev was great. The argument is whether Jacqui Courtney was great.

Fun fact: In the first season of Remington Steele, Bev does a guest spot. Just so happened on the DVD the writer and producer does commentary on Bev's episode. This writer doesn't know about Bev past soap background. When Bev scene comes up the writer says that Bev was a great actress in this part.

by Anonymousreply 15404/30/2016

[quote] No. I don't even know who Beverlee McKinsey is.

Sit down

by Anonymousreply 15504/30/2016

No we are not unanimous that Bev was great. Far from it. Remington Steele LOL! That writer's opinion means zip. One of the producers on the "Dallas" DVD commented that Charlene Tilton was a fine little actress.

by Anonymousreply 15604/30/2016

[quote] No we are not unanimous that Bev was great.

A tiny minority only feels Bev was a lousy actress

by Anonymousreply 15704/30/2016

"He played Rock Hudson in a TV movie, has had recurring roles on Wiseguy and One Tree Hill and is now focusing on script writing. He is currently a writer on the TV show Grimm (NBC)

And Anna Stuart has done since All My Children has been....?"

Yes. What every great actor does....become a writer. It's silly to say his recurring roles are somehow greater demonstration of his ability than working your ass off in daytime for 20 years.

by Anonymousreply 15805/01/2016

R158 a casting director looks at two resumes

One has done a single soap for 20 years

One has done a mix of theater, film, TV and has written and directed his own movies the past 20 years.

Who has had the better career?

by Anonymousreply 15905/01/2016

Because casting directors are the arbiters of good acting. Right.

by Anonymousreply 16005/01/2016

R160 Deflecting, no matter how you spin it Thomas Ian Griffin has had the better career working in all genres of acting.

by Anonymousreply 16105/01/2016

[quote] Because casting directors are the arbiters of good acting. Right.

They have the power over an actors career, If you don't know that...oh wait you wouldn't since you think acting on a soap is the same as studying at Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts or the Actors Studio

by Anonymousreply 16205/01/2016

Yes, that's exactly what I said, r162.

I had no idea we had so many people who thought Thomas Ian Griffith was such a wonderful actor and had such a brilliant career. I apologize for offending his many, many fans.

by Anonymousreply 16305/01/2016

[quote] I apologize for offending his many, many fans.

All eight of them.

by Anonymousreply 16405/01/2016

{quote] All eight of them.

R163 great you admitted your mistake. Someone who has had a mix of all genres of acting (theater, flim, TV, plus writing and directing his own projects) has had the better career than someone who has played the same part on a soap for 20 years,

Not just me saying it, but the entertainment industry as well.

An actor walks into a casting session with only soap credits, and they all hear the same thing "What else have you done"?

Don't try to argue that with me, it is an ENTIRE entertainment industry. But if you are still in denial about that, try getting your head out of the sand.

by Anonymousreply 16505/01/2016


by Anonymousreply 16605/01/2016

You should really tell the casting directors for shows like Law and Order that, r165. They totally missed that memo.

by Anonymousreply 16705/01/2016

R167 there is a different attitude with NY based casting directors. They understand under five soap work or even a gig on a soap pays the bills, in-between stints on the stage. But RARELY would they cast an actor who has only done a soap in a guest spot.

NY based casting directors would cast actors who appeared on soaps. But only if they mixed that work up with theater roles & other guest spots as well.

by Anonymousreply 16805/01/2016

Neat how you can just make up rules for casting directors as you go along.

In the real world, casting directors know experience on a soap means the actor can learn lines quickly, takes direction, and can do a variety of things.

But do go on telling how glorious Thomas Ian Griffith was in his starring role in Excessive Force.

by Anonymousreply 16905/01/2016

[quote] NY based casting directors would cast actors who appeared on soaps. But only if they mixed that work up with theater roles & other guest spots as well.

An acting resume only gets you in a door. Casting directors want to know you can hit a mark, but beyond that, it really only serves to get you access to an audition room. They're really FAR more concerned with what's in front of them.

The more correct statement would be that for an under five or a Problem Of The Week kind of role, it will be based on what they need, and the performer's audition. Soap actors land on the NY shows all the time, and normally their soap roles don't play a role at all - unless it's someone so well known for said soap role that the audience might be distracted and say, "Hey, that's Erica Kane!" or whatever, when they see the performer on screen.

What *did* happen fairly often in the 80s and 90s was that a lot of NYC actors left their shows and would go out to LA to try to break into nighttime or film. And in LA, a soap reel not only didn't have a positive impact, it often served as a block to getting cast in any new roles. It's really two very different markets, and the ones who did make it, for the most part, were very young and at the beginning of their careers (e.g. Julianne Moore, Kevin Bacon, Marisa Tomei) where there was some flexibility to what they could do.

Kim Zimmer, on the other hand, went out there at 30 with three kids and a husband, on the basis of one appearance on Designing Women, and fell flat. (I think she was told she would be in another Bloodworth-Thomason show, but it never came to be.)

by Anonymousreply 17005/01/2016

McKinzey in an exit interview, was asked what she'd like to do next. She said that she'd like to try her hand at a sitcom. Bitch please. You're a 50-something soap actress who looks 60-something. Plus, nobody knows who you are outside of daytime, and you want to star in a prime time sitcom????? Bye Felicia. I'm of the camp that McKinzey, though larger than life and usually a charismatic screen presence, really wasn't a very good actor. She was able to use her charismatic personality to mask her acting shortcomings. There's a reason she never won an Emmy.

by Anonymousreply 17105/01/2016

Thomas Ian Griffith is best known for playing the villain in one of the Karate Kid movies.

As for Mary Page Keller, I assume she ate a big serving of humble pie when she went from being the star of the fox sitcom Duet, to having a supporting role in the retooled version known as Open House.

The two of them were the hot couple on Another World during one of its weakest eras.

by Anonymousreply 17205/01/2016

If you can't spell her name right, sit your country ass on down, R171.

by Anonymousreply 17305/01/2016

I think you guys have gotten a little off track. Let's take a look at the actors who got their start on soaps

Julianne Moore

Ray Liotta

Marisa Tomei

Meg Ryan

Nathan Fillion

Sarah Michelle Geller

Morgan Freeman

Kathleen Turner

Kevin Bacon

Susan Sarandon

Demi Moore

Christian Slater

Ryan Phillippe

Robing Wright

Alec Baldwin

Anne Heche

Shemar Moore

Nia Long

Jensen Ackles

Eva Longoria

Vivieca A. Fox

A lot of New York soaps represented, but the thing most of these people had in common was that they didn't stick around. They did one or two stories and were gone. Working on soaps is a problem, only if you stay on them too long. Yes, you will get a guest spot on Law on Order, but that is what your career will be guest spots and walk ons and character parts. You will be sort of type cast as your character. And that happens on prime time as well. But playing Rachel Davis for 25 years isn't a bonus. I'm not a casting director, but I do know that they go for type first, then resume.

by Anonymousreply 17405/01/2016

[quote] Thomas Ian Griffith is best known for playing the villain in one of the Karate Kid movies. As for Mary Page Keller, I assume she ate a big serving of humble pie when she went from being the star of the fox sitcom Duet, to having a supporting role in the retooled version known as Open House.

At least they are still working. Anna Stuart had to marry up to pay the bills, relying on a man to maintain her living.

by Anonymousreply 17505/01/2016

[quote] But do go on telling how glorious Thomas Ian Griffith was in his starring role in Excessive Force.

And what movie have you financed, starred, directed and wrote? He did all four, not saying the film is Oscar worthy but at least he is developing his own projects.

by Anonymousreply 17605/01/2016

[quote] Neat how you can just make up rules for casting directors as you go along.

As R170 said it the BEST there are differences between casting directors in NY and LA, and I wasn't making that up!

by Anonymousreply 17705/01/2016

No IMDb listing for him in 9 years

by Anonymousreply 17805/01/2016

R178 look under the 'writer' category, He is now scriptwriter for the TV show GRIMM

by Anonymousreply 17905/01/2016

[quote] Kim Zimmer, on the other hand, went out there at 30 with three kids and a husband, on the basis of one appearance on Designing Women, and fell flat. (I think she was told she would be in another Bloodworth-Thomason show, but it never came to be.)

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason was a big Guiding Light fan and wanted Zimmer for the role of Fontana Beausoleil on Evening Shade. Zimmer read for the network, but brass said "No soap people"

Meanwhile 10 years earlier Carol Burnett got Dorothy Lyman (AMVC) cast on Mama's Family, and she had the clout that no one would deny her even if it was on NBC. Lyman owes alot of her PrimeTime Success to Burnett, cause she really went to bat for Lyman.

by Anonymousreply 18005/01/2016

Whose idea was it to cast Keller as Sally? The Sallys until then resembled pretty California surfer girls. Keller looked like the frauest frau who ever fraued. And just because Taylor Miller didn't work in the role, they shouldn't have killed her off. She was really the last viable link to the Matthews family. Maryann and Michael had all but been forgotten by the mid/late 80s, and the Olivia Matthews character never took off.

by Anonymousreply 18105/01/2016

Uh Hello, R181. You forget about us, bitch?

by Anonymousreply 18205/01/2016

The list of great actors who never won Emmys.

Smell number one, bitches!

(and really, aside from Patsy Pease, who was always a little too trailer park for me, and Dee Dee Halls, I agree with this list completely.)

by Anonymousreply 18305/01/2016

R183 and Jacqui Courtney isn't even on the list!

by Anonymousreply 18405/01/2016

Imagine that, R184!

by Anonymousreply 18505/01/2016

R175, Anna Stuart is 67 years old. Why should she still be working?

by Anonymousreply 18605/01/2016

That list would be perfection if #1 were swapped out for the woefully underrecognized Kate Collins.

by Anonymousreply 18705/01/2016

I disagree with "swap," R187, but agree Kate Collins is wonderful and should definitely be on that list. I would even say somewhere in the top ten.

by Anonymousreply 18805/01/2016

Serial Scholar is a fucken nutjob who is all out of whack today because Fin didn't win the emmy. Have several seats, you fucken nutcase.

by Anonymousreply 18905/02/2016

No one cares about some dumb Twitter war. Please don't post it here.

by Anonymousreply 19005/02/2016

A great scene by Jacquie was right after Mary Matthews died. She and Pat were at Pat's house and Pat left to pick up Jim and Liz at the airport. Alice was staying behind at Pat's, waiting for a call from Steve and left alone, she curled up in a chair in Pat's living room and started to cry. Now she and Ginny Dwyer had worked together 11 years at that point so I'm sure that helped dredge up the emotion but that scene always stuck with me. If I was moved, I know others were. And it was acting.

by Anonymousreply 19105/02/2016

[quote] If I was moved, I know others were. And it was acting.

Sense memory seeing two of her co-stars (George & Virginia) get fired

by Anonymousreply 19205/02/2016

Cunty Courtney was indeed a horrible actress. Did she ever even get nominated for an Emmy? At least that other cunt Strasser did win one.

by Anonymousreply 19305/02/2016

It was the pesky yeast infection she had that kept JC from winning an Emmy.

by Anonymousreply 19405/02/2016

Jackie Courtney was insanely popular. My mom was a typical stay-at-home housewife in the '70s and she was a rabid AW fan and was really caught up in the Steve/Alice/Rachel triangle. She had a huge crush on Nicholas Coster, who played Robert Delaney. One night when she and my dad went out to dinner in Manhattan, she saw Coster on the street and ran up to him an gave him a huge kiss. To this day, if she sees Coster or Susan Sullivan in something, she'll inevitably bring up their roles on AW. My aunt was also insane for AW at the time, and I recall she and my mom talking about these characters on the phone. Soon, I became engrossed. Say what you want about soaps, how they're bottom-barrel entertainment for the masses, etc, but they brought families together and connected generations of women with their children and grandchildren like no other form of entertainment ever has. You can't say that about Mad Men or Breaking Bad.

by Anonymousreply 19505/02/2016

But that was the thing, R195. AW in its heyday was really quite sophisticated, and NOT the bottom barrel.

It was tres chic!

[quote] You can't say that about Mad Men or Breaking Bad.

True in a larger sense, but Mad Men, for me, was the first program since the heyday of AW and some of the other P&G soaps that understood that sometimes the subtext told the story better than obvious plot.

What seemed like little tangents on MM were often important keys to the thrust of the season. Soaps were a little different since they had big twists and turns, but those non-cliffhanger scenes often carved out a lot of character as it nudged the plot ahead a little.

Now the remaining shows tell and never show. We're told the two young actors are in love! We never see it, but a year of story is built around two people who are unbelievable as a couple.

by Anonymousreply 19605/02/2016

R196 is spot on. Mad Med was the closest thing to classic soap that we have ever seen on TV since the days of classic soap opera.

Little character moments like Ada slinging that t-towel across her shoulder, Louise talking to her plants, Liz's meddling resonates with fans, just as much as the big revelations and major story points. Just having two ladies sit down over coffee and cake and essentially recap the stories, served to recap the stories and to build character and show friendships and empathy. In the 80s soaps gave up all of that for faster paced plots.

by Anonymousreply 19705/02/2016

[quote] In the 80s soaps gave up all of that for faster paced plots.

Blame Gloria Monty who changed the genre. Then the other soaps felt they had to compete on that level. I really think that Gloria pushing soaps in that direction, caused it to go downhill in later years as plots got more and more outlandish.

If you look at the British soaps they never went this direction, and are still on the air and going strong. In part because they air in primetime (7 to 8 PM) but also the plots never went sci-fi

by Anonymousreply 19805/02/2016

[quote] Blame Gloria Monty who changed the genre.

Yup. And eventually killed it.

by Anonymousreply 19905/02/2016

Courtney was very old fashioned looking, Harney had a much more contemporary look which suited Alice as a young widow for the show at that time. Lemay and Rauch cast it right.

by Anonymousreply 20005/02/2016

What, r199, are you saying the Ice Princess mega-diamond/secret weather death-ray/freeze machine wasn't in the realm of possibility?

by Anonymousreply 20105/02/2016

Susan Harney had a modern look??? WIth her Rapunzel hair and pale as a bar of Ivory soap face? She was pleasant but I'd hardly call her a change from JC.

I remember JC and Icky Wyndham appearing on Phil Donahue in early 74 and poor Vicky was looking a trite unhappy that the majority of the audience had q's for Jackie and not her, so much so that she started BUTTING in with answers of her own for q's posed to Jackie. It was very uncomfortable.

by Anonymousreply 20205/03/2016

R202 but then the billing changed on AW and it was

Another World


Victoria Wydham


Rachel Davis Cory

by Anonymousreply 20305/03/2016

r203 exaggerates, but she was top billed. AW did its credits in order of seniority, though Wyndham was top-billed above people that started before her, such as Connie Ford, Bev Penberthy, and Mike Ryan. Doug Watson was also credited above Penberthy and Mike Ryan.

by Anonymousreply 20405/03/2016

R204 but that showed how Vicky threw her weight around as the undisputed diva of AW.

by Anonymousreply 20505/03/2016

That billing thing was a Rauch move to piss other people off.

Before Alice and Steve re-married in 74, Penberty and Ryan, then Courtney and Reinholt were top billed. Dwyer, Marlowe, Connie Ford came next.

After their re-marriage in 74, Courtney, Reinholt and Wyndham were top billed.

by Anonymousreply 20605/03/2016

r204, to be fair, Don Hastings got the same top billing over at ATWT, even over Helen Wagner and Don McLaughlin and Bruder. ATWT, like AW, did their credits in order of seniority. GL did their credits alphabetically, with Don Stewart and Charita Bauer top-billed above everyone else, though for some reason Stewart was able to negotiate being top billed above Charita.

by Anonymousreply 20705/03/2016

All the seniority shows were Days of our Lives, General Hospital, Edge, and ATWT was seniority until the 90s then they changed, The other ABC shows did some kind of weird alpha order where everyone got to be top billed at least once a year. The Doctors did the primary stars on a single title card, then the rest of cast would be listed, first if you were in the days episodes and then everyone else. Y&R did alpha on long credit days, then on short days they would only credit the actors who appeared in the episode in the order in which they appeared in the episode.

I believe Mac Carey was the first person in soaps to get a starring credit. Rosemary Printz got one on AMC. Bev McK got one on Texas. Dee Hall and Eileen Fulton got the "And" credit on their shows. Wayne Northrop got the "with" credit. After many years, Frances Reid got the follow up credit after Mac's.

It made sense for AW to put Wyndham and Watson as the top billed, they were the stars of the show. I remember reading an article about it and Wyndham said that she was just as surprised as everyone else when she became top billed, so I don't think she negotiated it.

by Anonymousreply 20805/03/2016

Beverlee McKinsey got starring credit in the opening credits. The announcer said "Texas starring Beverlee McKinsey" every day for the 18 months she was on the show, accompanied by the same credit in writing.

Rosemary Prinz also got the starring credit in the opening credits of How to Survive a Marriage with the announcer saying" How To Survive a Marriage Starring Rosemary Prinz as Dr. Julie Franklin," accompanied by the credit in writing onscreen. However she only stayed with the show for 6 months.

I believe Rosemary Prinz got starring credit in the END credits of AMC. However, she only stayed at AMC for 6 months.

Don't think that Douglass Watson ever got "starring Douglass Watson" in the end credits on AW, although he was top billed in the end credits when they did the cast scroll, along with Victoria Wyndham.

MacDonald Carey was always the first listed in the cast scroll at Days. However, sometime in the late 70s/ early 80s, that was changed to a "starring" credit at the beginning of the cast scroll. Eventually, MacDonald got starring credit at the beginning of the Days end credits, which appeared regardless of whether they ran the cast scroll. Sometime in the late 80s/early 90s, Frances Reid also started getting the "starring" credit like Carey's which continued until her death in 2010.

As for the "and" credit in the end credits, Donald May got it on Edge of Night. He was always the last cast member listed in the cast scroll.

Eileen Fulton also got the "and" on ATWT during a contract negotiation. Deidre Hall got the "and" at the end of the Days cast scroll when she returned in 1991 and it lasted until she was fired in 2009. For the three years Wayne Northrup was back at Days in the early 90s, he also got an "and" credit whichfollowed Dee.

by Anonymousreply 20905/03/2016

The opening credits for How to Survive a Marriage.

by Anonymousreply 21005/03/2016

ATWT in the 80s went in strict order of seniority except for Eileen Fulton at the end. Wagner, McLaughlin, and Bruder lost their spots after they went off contract, leaving Hastings, Byrgmann and Hays at the top.

by Anonymousreply 21105/03/2016






by Anonymousreply 21205/03/2016

When Denise Alexander made her triumphant return to daytime and Another World she got billed last.


Denise Alexander


Mary McKinnon Love

by Anonymousreply 21305/03/2016

Hays lost her position as well, she went into the alpha order credits. Hastings was always topped billed and Fulton was last.

One Days it was "With Wayne Northrop as Roman Brady and "And Deidre Hall as Marlena"

Rosemary got billed in the opening credits of AMC in the early months of the show. The had turned another page in the album after All My Children to show her picture and credit.

by Anonymousreply 21405/03/2016

Hays only lost her position when they went alpha. Throughout the 90s it is seniority order.

by Anonymousreply 21505/03/2016

[quote]I believe Rosemary Prinz got starring credit in the END credits of AMC. However, she only stayed at AMC for 6 months.

I think after that AMC simply did alphabetical order for the end credits, although once they started having cast photos in the opening,Lucci was usually at the end - except the white credits when she was the first one.

by Anonymousreply 21605/03/2016

AMC, OLTL, and RH did the alphabetical credits, but they would constantly rotate which letter they'd begin with. I forgot how Loving did it. GH was the only ABC O&O show to do the seniority credits. I remember we joked on here a few years ago that, even though Maurice Benard was the face of GH, Leslie Charleson was the top-billed star after Rachel Ames and Stuart Damon left, though she barely appeared until her contract lapsed and wasn't renewed.

by Anonymousreply 21705/03/2016

Another World did not give Jacqueline Courtney any special credit when she returned to the show in 1984.

However, AW did place Stephen Schnetzer in the crawl in order of seniority when he returned to the show after an absence of six months in 1987. At this point, they placed Linda Dano above him in the credits despite the face that she joined the show 6 months after him.

by Anonymousreply 21805/03/2016

Did David Bailey (Russ) leave AW for a brief while in the 70s? In the credit crawl from 1980, he is way down the list, below Richard Bekins and Susan Keith.

by Anonymousreply 21905/03/2016

I'm sorry, I'm still cracking up over learning we have a devout Thomas Ian Griffith fan here. He did about as much acting on AW as Walt Willey did in six months of bonking Schnetzer over the head. Seeing Taylor Miller and Sharon Gabet trying to create chemistry with that black hole of suck (after MPK went on to her prime-time "stardom") was just painful.

And if he's writing for Grimm now, then my admiration for David Greenwalt just took a hit. (Unless Greenie isn't with the show any more; I haven't kept up.)

by Anonymousreply 22005/03/2016

Yes, David Bailey left and came back to AW a few times.

Russ was originally younger than Pat and Alice, but at one point they cast Bailey and he was older and that was that.

It was odd watching what happened to AW; by 1983, it was so different from what it was in the 70s and even early 80s.

Yes, ATWT and GL changed a lot too, but ATWT always seemed to have characters like Susan, Grant and Penny coming back for various lengths of time. GL, too.

With AW, it was Mac, Rachel and Ada and sometimes Aunt Liz, but the show changed so much - not for the better.

by Anonymousreply 22105/03/2016

The original cunt of AW, Strasser, is melting down on twitter. Several people have called upon her to stop tweeting because she sounds like a miserable old frau.

by Anonymousreply 22205/04/2016

R220 David Greenwalt is still with Grimm. Looks like it just lost one viewer,

Griffin could very well be just like Walt Willey. In that respect Thomas Ian Griffin might not a great actor, He could be the worst actor on the planet. The point is that his career has had diversity. Unlike other actors who stay on soaps in one role for decades. Or do nothing but hop from different soaps.

He might be a shitty actor, but at least he took chances and diversified his career.

by Anonymousreply 22305/04/2016

I don't see any evidence of "melting down" on her feed, R22.

by Anonymousreply 22405/04/2016

AW premiered on this date in 1964.

by Anonymousreply 22505/04/2016

Strasser was calling soap actors fat, when she herself admits to being a size 12!! Look in the mirror you miserable old cow.

by Anonymousreply 22605/04/2016

Joan Bennett, Jonathan Frid and Alexandra Moltke all got special billing on DS.

I imagine so did Dana Andrews when he was on Bright Promise.

ATWT changed its billing to accomodate fatty Martha Bryne when she came was done STRICTLY to move her up alpha wise, so the seniority folks lost their place to make MB feel higher. If you don't believe me, check those old scrolls and how they changed only when she came back in what...93?

by Anonymousreply 22705/04/2016

Didn't Zimmer get the "and" tag when she returned as Amish Reva in 1995, or am I dreaming that?

by Anonymousreply 22805/04/2016

Drunk Zimmer got the "AND" in 1988 when she almost left the show. She instead got a 6 week break, during which time she did Designing Women. Then she got her drunk ass back to GL for 2 years.

by Anonymousreply 22905/04/2016

R227 from the mid 80s to mid 90s ATWT was


Don Hastings


Dr. Bob Hughes

Then starting in 1994 ATWT ditched billing by seniority and billed the cast in alphabetical order. GL went the same way.

But AW continued with it seniority credit crawl, which meant Vicky Wyndham was top billed from 1975 to 1999, almost 20 yrs of top billing

by Anonymousreply 23005/04/2016

Through out all of this Suzi Rogers remains top billed on DAYS

Days of our Lives


Suzanne Rogers


Maggie Horton

by Anonymousreply 23105/04/2016

That's Maggie Simmons Horton Kiriakis thank you very much.

by Anonymousreply 23205/04/2016

R230, it was probably MADD's idea.

by Anonymousreply 23305/04/2016

And Maggie isn't even a blood Horton, and it's a travesty that she gets top billing. It should be:



Susan Seaforth Hayes


Julie Olson Banning Williams

by Anonymousreply 23405/04/2016

What would you bitches have thought of Leslie Charleson as nuAlice after Jackie? I could see and Miss Vicky going at it.

by Anonymousreply 23505/04/2016

[quote] Leslie Charleson as nuAlice after Jackie?

When Denise Alexander joined AW, the producer mused how great it would be to get Leslie Charleson so they could create sparks as different characters,

by Anonymousreply 23605/05/2016

I wonder if Lady Wyndham felt threatened by Denise Alexander. I mean, Wyndham was queen bee after Jackie and later Bev left. Even Linda Dano knew her place. But Denise was a different entity. Here was one of the great daytime superstars joining the series, and Rachel at this point was no longer driving story. It could've been very easy for Denise to eclipse Wyndham as the star, but luckily for Wyndham, Denise was a flop.

by Anonymousreply 23705/05/2016

I've never read anything anywhere that intimated that Wyndham was jealous of any co-star.

Post 1980, she didn't even seem to care about press – she gave relatively few interviews and when she did she made it pretty clear that the show was just a job to her. She had a lot more irons in the fire -- raising kids and horses, managing rock bands, fulfilling art commissions, etc. I think she was devoted to her character (and Watson and Keating) but she didn't have much respect for the writing or the show itself post Lemay and Rauch.

by Anonymousreply 23805/05/2016

one time I was on a crowded escalator and I tried to hold in a fart. But it was no use. If I had to spell the sound it made, it would be pfenning

by Anonymousreply 23905/05/2016

Imagine being around that lez Irene Daily when she farted!!

by Anonymousreply 24005/05/2016

Irene Dailey was actually a devout Catholic and I would assume very repressed. I am certain she never acted on a sexual urge in her life. She would talk in interviews about 'dating' but couldn't find the right what...72?

by Anonymousreply 24105/06/2016

You don't think that Irene ever ate a pussy or had hers eaten out by a fellow co-star lez? Doubt it!

by Anonymousreply 24205/06/2016

Well maybe when she was on EDGE as Pamela - who lusted after Nicole (MAEVE McGUIRE). Always thought Maeve was a lez, but heard she 'married' in later life.

by Anonymousreply 24305/06/2016

Beverly Penberty did reveal (via her nephew who posts here) that it was well known that Irene was a lesbian.

by Anonymousreply 24405/06/2016

It was hardly shocking news that Irene was a lesbian. Penberthy's big homo nephew didn't really add anything new here. Oh shock, Connie Ford was a lez, too.! Shocker!!

by Anonymousreply 24505/06/2016

Theres a scene on youtube btwn Irene and Jennifer Leak as Olive from 1976. Liz comes off almost predatory toward Olive.

by Anonymousreply 24605/06/2016

Liz was a lez?

by Anonymousreply 24705/06/2016

Irene was not a lesbian. The only known gay on AW was David Oliver.

by Anonymousreply 24805/06/2016

Didn't Oliver, like so many others, give an interview saying that he's "too busy to find the right woman to settle down with". Yeah, guess we found out what he was too busy doing! Taking it up the ass.

by Anonymousreply 24905/06/2016

Susan Sullivan always gave off a lezzie vibe to me. Warm, but cold. Beautiful but kind of remote.

by Anonymousreply 25005/09/2016

Susan dated Val DuFour, r250, so you need to fine tune your gaydar.

by Anonymousreply 25105/09/2016

In Harding Lemay's book he mentions that Connie Ford and Nancy Wickwire (who played Liz after Audra Lindley but before Irene Dailey) were good friends.

I wondered if they were more.....Nancy Wickwire died in 1974 and apparently Ada's daughter Nancy was named after her by Lemay.

by Anonymousreply 25205/09/2016

[quote]Susan dated Val DuFour, [R250], so you need to fine tune your gaydar.

Straight frau alert! At least in the days when we had to have stealth threads, we didn't get all these straight women coming in saying ignorant and homophobic things.

by Anonymousreply 25305/09/2016

My pussy is dry.

by Anonymousreply 25405/09/2016

I believe Susan Sullivan came out a long time ago. A lot of gay people "date" the opposite sex for the public.

by Anonymousreply 25505/09/2016

Is Susan Sullivan doing the Holland Taylor special? As it, let me eat pussy for days but be all coy and shit about it?

(Yeah, I know Holland did come out but she was almost eleventy when it actually finally happened.)

by Anonymousreply 25605/09/2016

AW seemed to attract it's fair share of lez actresses (butch and lipstick).

by Anonymousreply 25705/09/2016

I wonder if Connie Ford and Irene Daily ever snacked on each others pusses?

by Anonymousreply 25805/10/2016

No, they were too alike. Too butch for each other, I'd guess.

by Anonymousreply 25905/10/2016

More importantly, did David Oliver and Richard Bekins ever hook up? They would've made a beautiful couple.

by Anonymousreply 26005/10/2016

I always found the Dack Rambo/ David Forsythe scenes to be incredibly homoerotic.

I know nothing about Forsythe's private life but from those scenes I could tell he'd been ther with another man, at least once.

by Anonymousreply 26105/10/2016

[quote]did David Oliver and Richard Bekins ever hook up?

The Another World Home Page says that Richard Bekins' last air date was May 30, 1983, while David Oliver's first air date was June 8, 1983.

So, their time at the studio did not overlap. But they could have met each other at cast parties or through mutual friends in the cast.

by Anonymousreply 26205/10/2016

Oliver and Bekins probably swapped head.

by Anonymousreply 26305/11/2016

For ATWT's 40th anniversary, the show did a video montage of cast members by seniority played to a Whitney Houston song - it was quite nice during the otherwise awful post-Marland years; it was interesting to see Dan Frazier (sp?, Mac) pre-date Martha Byrne in terms of joining the cast

by Anonymousreply 26405/11/2016

What happened to Mac? Did he die? When Goutman arrived on the scene, suddenly Nancy went back to using the Hughes surname and Mac was never mentioned again, as if he never existed. I always thought that was odd.

by Anonymousreply 26505/11/2016

Mac did die of Alzheimer's.

They still called Nancy Mrs. McCluskey sometimes, but also Nancy Hughes.

by Anonymousreply 26605/11/2016

Bekins more famously hooped up with Tony Geary for a brief bit when he visited his family in LA in the early 80's.

David Oliver was so beautiful. Compared to the lounge lizard like Tom Elpin, who of course was always stripped to the waist. David had a partner named Terry when he went back to LA and he was on A Year IN the Life. If only that show had made his character gay! They had him married to Sarah Jessica Parker in it, so well they kind of did.

by Anonymousreply 26705/12/2016

Shut up Serial, you asshole. Stop creating twitter names and stalking Spicen. Asshat.

by Anonymousreply 26805/12/2016

[quote] The vile Harding Lemay

This poor person with no taste or brains....

by Anonymousreply 26905/15/2016

Lemay was a nasty old queen. 8 years too long in Another World.

by Anonymousreply 27005/15/2016

[quote] Irene was not a lesbian.

Not according to Beverly Penberthy

by Anonymousreply 27105/29/2016

David Forsythe was so hot. Daytime TV did a b/w article with him shirtless with dumbells and his arms folded and oh man, that hairy chest. He lived in Greenwich Village at one time and he would stroll around shirtless in Daisy Dukes in the summer and oh yeah, lots of men paying attention to him and HE knew it.

by Anonymousreply 27205/31/2016

Did Forsyth ever let a dude go down on him?

by Anonymousreply 27305/31/2016

R 273 without a doubt. Never heard about David being with ANY woman other than the presumed affair with JFP. Saw him at a gay bar in Cincinnati in the late 80's. He was aware he was being cruised by every guy there but slipped off into the piano bar part of the bar.

by Anonymousreply 27406/01/2016

it's kind of dum that AW never brought Jacquie back after she hit it out of the park in both the 25th anniversary week shows and when she made her last appearance at Mac's funeral.

Didn't someone at P&G maybe say to Doug Marland, hey, can we pay you to do a long term or give us some broad strokes on what to do with Alice and Rachel in 1989?

Look at the ground work Doug was laying to do the Kim/Bob/Susan triangle over on ATWT around this time?

I don't get shows not dipping into the well more often to tell current story.

Why hasn't one of Stefano's kids for example returned to Salem to seek revenge for his/her father's murder?

Imagine Megan coming back and going one on one with Hope?

by Anonymousreply 27506/05/2016

dum - dumb

by Anonymousreply 27606/05/2016

I'm sure the execs thought Jacquie was heavier and older and no one would care. When Denise Alexander returned to GH after they made Lesley un-dead, her appearance was a shock to the PTB and they quickly sidelined her.

by Anonymousreply 27706/06/2016

R275, Megan was electrocuted in a hot tub at The Body Connection

by Anonymousreply 27806/06/2016

Jackie Courtney was a CUNT! Good fucken riddance. She was a nasty human being.

by Anonymousreply 27906/06/2016

R278, actually, she died when Larry slammed her into the wall in the room with the hot tub; then he put her body in the hot tub to make it look like she'd been electrocuted.

But this is DAYS.

Stefano, Marlena, Roman, Hope, Patch, Aiden...not to mention ALL of 'Marlena's' victims -- have all come back from the dead.

Who better to rise from the ashes this time than Stefano's daughter herself?

by Anonymousreply 28006/08/2016

I've just spent the entire day watching the Harry Must Die storyline on youtube. It wasn't Lemay, but it was some good shit.

by Anonymousreply 28104/16/2017

All those years of playing ditzy Mrs. Roper have made people forget what a wonderful actress Audra Lindley was. When she played Liz Matthews, the character was a force to be reckoned with, not the nothing she became under Irene Dailey.

People forget what a big deal the Alice/Steve/Rachel triangle was. This plotline was one of the biggest in soap history, and for that you can't ignore the actors...Reinholt, Courtney and especially the venomous Robin Strasser, who stole every scene she was in. Wyndham was a horrible replacement. She never did anything outside this role, and just look at her "acting" when she had to do a double role on AW...Justine, anyone?

by Anonymousreply 28204/16/2017

Haven't seen it since the original but I still remember getting all chilly with excitement when Racel said, "oh I just feel like reading something trashy."

by Anonymousreply 28304/16/2017

[quote] People forget what a big deal the Alice/Steve/Rachel triangle was.

Agnes Nixon was the only who created the storyline. By the time Harding LeMay came on the scene this storyline had been playing out for 12 years, and he had enough.

He wanted Rachel to be the heroine in a new triangle, the Rachel/Mac/Iris triangle, Iris being Mac daughter and trying to break them off.

by Anonymousreply 28404/16/2017

[quote]People forget what a big deal the Alice/Steve/Rachel triangle was. This plotline was one of the biggest in soap history, and for that you can't ignore the actors..

Judging by the ratings, the Rachel/Mac/Iris "triangle" was even more of a big deal. And as good as the young Strasser was, she would have been eaten alive by McKinsey.

by Anonymousreply 28504/16/2017

[quote] By the time Harding LeMay came on the scene this storyline had been playing out for 12 years, and he had enough

The show hadn't even been on that long when Lemay came on board.

by Anonymousreply 28604/16/2017

Was Dynasty on when Linda Borgeson played Alice? Because Borgeson looked similar to Linda Evans and had similar qualities. It made sense that Mac and Alice were put together, even if it was meant to be temporary.

by Anonymousreply 28704/16/2017

The full blown Alice/Steve/Rachel triangle didn't began until 1969. Lemay began writing the show in 1971. Mac and Rachel didn't begin until 1974. Lemay wrote a good 2 years of the triangle before moving Rachel into Mac's world.

by Anonymousreply 28804/16/2017

Why doesn't Jennifer Leak get more love around here?

Her Olive was fantastic.

by Anonymousreply 28905/13/2017

I loved Olive, too. I remember she used the word "undermine" a lot.

by Anonymousreply 29005/14/2017

Maybe they should have brought Olive back in 1984 around the same time that Jacque Courtney returned as Alice. Giving Alice a villain who hated her and was plotting against her would have created more audience sympathy for Alice.

by Anonymousreply 29105/16/2017

Sexy Mark Mortimer (Nick Hudson) ....

by Anonymousreply 29212/05/2017

Sexy Mark Mortimer has turned into a sexy daddy with his own construction company!

by Anonymousreply 29312/05/2017

r291, they had absolutely no intention of giving Alice a mainstream story. She was there as a nostalgic novelty and supporting character to the more important Sally, who was the show's heroine at the time.

Add on the harsh reality that Jacquie was a last-minute choice for a 20th anniversary easter egg - they went after Beverlee McKinsey to return as Iris, but McKinsey had no intention of ever returning to her signature role and instead accepted Gail Kobe's invitation to join GL that same year to make that very clear. Producers scrambled to fulfill their promise to get a big name vet to come back that could make headlines, and they asked Courtney at the last-minute. They had no idea what to do with Alice after the initial fanfare.

by Anonymousreply 29412/05/2017

Do I have to post that audio of Evan's death?

by Anonymousreply 29512/05/2017

Which was a shame. Jacquie may not have been the best thespian, but she would have been a nice addition to the show at that time. Sally was the young heroine and they should have focused on her and Jamie's relationship and their families. Alice and Donna and Felicia could have all been frenemies.

by Anonymousreply 29612/05/2017

She was fat

by Anonymousreply 29712/05/2017

So was a huge portion of the audience. The white lab coat hid it well enough.

by Anonymousreply 29812/06/2017

R294 you are insane Jacquie was signed to AW in late 1983 months before she started taping. For all time nostalgia fans having Alice back meant more than having Iris. It would have been wonderful if they'd both come back.

by Anonymousreply 29912/07/2017

Grew up loving Jacquie as Alice. It was jarring when she left and they didn't do anything with her when she came back. I mean seriously how can you believe Paul Rauch - who if he were alive with all of this sexual harassment going would be totally exposed - and his 'agenda' to promote Vicky Wyndham. Those 'Beautiful' Rachel NBC ads were a hoot! Pete LeMay was a drunk and a womanizer.

by Anonymousreply 30012/08/2017
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