Have you ever worked for "the government"??

If you do not know anything, make sure to shine your shoes.

Our government?

It's a strange land, OP. Many that have worked for the government their entire lives are lazy and clueless. Others have a clue but are disinclined to use it unless absolutely necessary.

A few times you'll find people that are on the ball, know what the fuck they are doing and will go out of their way to help you. Most of the time, these people have come from the private sector where results are expected and you'd better do your work correctly the first time.

It's not bad but there are some fucking weird people working for the government and there are some lazy fuckers there, too. But the government doesn't EXPECT results like working in the private sector does.

Q: Have you?

A: No.

Thanks, R3. The job description for this particular position is VERY results oriented. With that in mind, I'm thinking touting my private sector experience - including examples of meeting and beating departmental KPIs - might be a good thing. It will at least a way to differentiate myself from government sector candidates. Perhaps the key will be to differentiate myself via my private sector achievements while projecting confidence in government and admiration for public service.

Absolutely, OP/r5. Like I said, most of the people that work for the government aren't used to being judged by RESULTS so if you can show that you get results, that would be a good thing. Also coming in from the private sector, they know you get paid to get results and not just show up and put in your 8 hours.

Also, when applying for a government job, do absolutely every last stupid thing they ask. If they say fax three copies of your resume, DO IT. Don't think someone will copy it once it's faxed over. If they tell you to send a cover letter, do it. This is The Man we're talking about - forms in triplicate, numerous weird hoops to jump through for their sadistic pleasure. Most people don't make it past the screening phase because they don't send all of the documents in the order and at the time requested. Remember, it's a BUREAUCRACY - levels, forms and more forms.

But once you get in - you've pretty much got it made. Good luck!

I did years ago. Was surprised at how so many stereotypical cretins worked there.

Yes, OP/R5, please make sure that you let the interviewers at that government agency know just how superior you are to everyone else in the department because clearly they are all just lazy goofs, and you have had private sector experience.

I taught for seven years in the public schools and worked in a prosecutor's office for 5 years. The vast majority of my government co-workers were conscientious and effective.

You come across as arrogant. I would never hire you. Go peddle your private sector skill set to the private sector. Oh wait, apparently no one wants you so you have to demean yourself by applying to the state.

The first thing that you should know is that the subject line of the OP is actually asking if anyone here has worked for the CIA/NSA.

As an aspiring employee of CA state gov, what you should aim to demonstrate is the ability to follow instructions and not be a complete asshole.

I dated a soldier. That's it.

R8, - appreciate you taking the time to respond, but I find your post quite bewildering. I'm just going to assume you've had a long week, but if you actually read my posts, I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that I'm arrogant or that I have some superiority complex. I mean, let's review...

1. I posted this thread because I wanted to know more about the interview process and the work culture in the public sector. How is asking for input arrogant? If anything, it shows some degree of humility - admitting that I don't have all the answers and that I could benefit from the insight of others with more experience in government work. You should feel to disagree with the responses some others gave, but I think you're confusing my solicitation of feedback with my tacit pre-endorsement of that feedback. Which, to be honest, is a bit odd.

2. In R5, which I wrote in response to R3's post, I noted that this particular job description was very results-oriented and that it aligned well with the kind experience and achievements I gained in the private sector. And, I posited that I could leverage that experience to differentiate myself from the competition which is likely to be made up of mostly internal candidates with public sector experience. Surely it's understandable that, as a candidate, it's actually my JOB to differentiate myself from my likely competition; to position myself as the best candidate for the vacancy?

I don't know what exactly is this source of your projection of arrogance upon me. But I think you're reading my strategic, pragmatic approach to the interview process as being some value judgment against public sector employees. That couldn't be further from the truth. I'm actually excited about this opportunity because I deeply value public service. I'm not a Trump'eter and I'm not a Sanders'nista. I'm not overly cynical about government. I went to public school; I went to a public UC university where, thanks to Federal and State government grants I graduated with less than $7,000 debt; when I was laid off, I earned unemployment compensation and, thanks to the affordable care act, I could afford health insurance. My grandparents were able to retire thanks in part to social security and Medicare. One of my best friends was able to recover from the destruction of her home in a tornado last year. All of this, thanks to... the government.

The particular job I'm applying for is with an agency that directly improves the lives of everyday people and I would be proud to work there. I'm sorry if you think differentiating oneself from the competition is a form of arrogance, but I don't expect to just be handed the job simply because I'm qualified and made it through the first round. I believe it's my job to directly show how my background and experience aligns with the needs of this department. The Parks & Rec picture I posted was obviously in jest. And if you knew anything about that show, you'd know that Ron, this supposed hardcore anti-government libertarian, actually enjoyed his work in the public sector despite himself.

20 years at a state agency. Like everything else there are good and bad aspects. The techs on the low end, where there is a high turnover and the pay is low, can be hell to supervise and work with. The people at the top are basically political appointees and sometimes just fucked up. It is the middle management and middle staff that keeps things going.

OP, chances are not good you'll get that job. I work for a state government and they don't give a fuck who you were before you got there. Most government employees are careerists, i.e., they never had a "real job," and most of them are too stupid/stubborn/set in their ways to ever succeed at one. I just had an interview with another state government agency, and the people who interviewed me (for the statistics dept., no less) didn't know the difference between a flat file and a database. Frightening.

In the state where I work, they have a list of questions relevant to the job that they ask every interviewee. Trust me when I tell you they do not want it to turn into a conversation, and they don't want to spend that much time with you - 45 minutes tops. Unless you have a very esoteric skill set, they are probably interviewing 10+ people for the position. And somebody's brother-in-law is bound to get it anyway. So do be prepared, but don't get your hopes up.

And be prepared, if you do get hired, to have your professional experience dismissed out-of-hand, and your suggestions for improvements ("Why are we still using this much PAPER?? Why don't we PDF this stuff?") completely ignored.

Most of those questions are answered with a blank look and the phrase, "Because that's the way we've always done it!" If you're good with that, you'll love working for the government.

R13

Thanks

I worked for the government when I got my draft notice to go into the Army during the Vietnam war. I occupied a small cubicle in the Mekong Delta.

[quote]they have a list of questions relevant to the job that they ask every interviewee.

"The PowerPoint Interview" - lawsuit kryptonite, but completely underwhelming for the candidates. If your interviewers decide to go this route, or more likely are ordered to, they will not ask any follow-up questions or otherwise veer from their script. Watch for any and every opportunity to wedge in references to your strengths and experience. Yes, that's generally what one does during an interview, but if they can only ask generic questions of each candidate, don't be rattled by dead-pan question delivery and minimal response.

I've worked for public universities for 12 years. I believe in the institutions and their missions, work hard to do a good job, and care about what I do and don't get done on a given day. The hardest part about working there is the (slight) majority of people that don't appear to give a shit about anything. One can charitably imagine that they used to, but were worn down by years of institutional apathy.

Good luck, OP!

R12 - Thanks for the candid feedback. Interestingly, this position is in middle management.

R13 - Yeah, I'm prepared for that likely outcome. I would not be surprised if the job goes to an insider. The one positive for me is that this job's function is largely found in the private sector so the overall pool of qualified middle management public sector employees with this specific skillset and background is probably a lot smaller than other more common functions. And thanks for the warning about the possible culture shock. While I don't have public sector experience, I have worked at a large non-profit with its own special kind of bureaucracy and longstanding cultural practices.

So, are CA State benefits all they're chalked up to be? Do you think the pension system (Calpers) will even be solvent by the time I hit retirement age in 30-35+ years? Do all state employees get pensions anyway? This isn't a union job.

So how'd it turn out, OP? Inquiring minds want to know!

Soul crushing and Human Resources heavy. There is no room for innovation, hard work, or much advancement. You have half that are the affirmative action types, a quarter who are just too lazy or stupid to do anything else, and a quarter right out of college(like I was) trying to get something on their resume or hoping they can change the world(like I did).

You will probably find that you could do your job coming in maybe two days a week. You don't see this now because you are hopeful. You think that your results oriented gung ho attitude will get you hired and get your noticed. It will get you noticed. The minute you start going above and beyond you highlight how incompetent and lazy everyone else is. The knives will be out for you. Since it is public sector the pay won't be great. As usual the smaller the prize the more fighting.

IT SUCKS.

if Cali is anything like the federal government expect a whole 360 of chaos and non-productivity. Then add into the mix wasteful spending policies. Expect colleagues who can't be fired because of fairness. Expect people in power with status who are utterly incompetent. Expect innovation to be shot down because of devout allegiance to the status quo. You might need therapy afterwards.

Although R8's post may have seemed harsh, I think he has a point. If you go into the interview assuming and behaving as if there is a big difference between private sector employment and government employment, you'll be announcing that you're not qualified. And you may give the impression that your previous work experience is in the private sector is superior to work in the public sector.

An interview is really a two-way street - where the potential employer evaluates you and where you evaluate the potential employer. You'll be there to share information about your experiences and qualifications. You'll also be there to learn about this employment opportunity and this organization.

You should assume this branch of government operates as productively and efficiently as any private sector company you've worked for until you discover evidence to the contrary. You should also be prepared to explain how your skills and experience can benefit this potential employer, as you would for any potential employer you're considering..

R21-

Anyone who assumes that government bureaucracy is in any way superior to the Free Market is inherently ignorant of ethics and economics.

r22 not only is not superior it is 100% inferior. Working for the government will make the most die hard liberal jaded.

R23

If every "liberal" (aka socialist) had to work for 6 months in a government office then they would lose their fanatical support for more government intervention.

[quote]So how'd it turn out, OP? Inquiring minds want to know!

R18: Interview's tomorrow morning. If any of you have anymore insight on the interview process for State of CA jobs, I'd love to hear more. There's not very much info on Glassdoor and other similar sites.

They're finally giving me a few more details, though the process remains a bit of a black box.

- They've allotted an hour.

- I will be interviewed by a 3-person panel, which will include the hiring manager.

- There will only be 1 interview. This is the first and the final interview. Which is kind of nice. Last year I went through 15, yes - 15, interviews for one job.

- Here's the weird part - 20 minutes prior to the start, they will provide me with a list of questions that will be asked during the interview. The HR coordinator said that it's a standard process and that all applicants get those same questions. I guess it's nice that I'll have a small amount of time to scramble if they ask something I didn't anticipate and plan for. What wasn't 100% clear to me was whether that list will contain ALL of the questions they will ask or if it's just a starter list of mandatory questions after which the panel will ask me additional questions. What's also not clear is whether I will have the opportunity to ask the panelists questions myself. I feel it's often the questions that YOU ask that demonstrate your industry/organization knowledge and your creative, strategic thinking.

Thanks for the advice, all!

OP, those panel interviews and same questions for everyone are very standard these days. Designed to treat all candidates the same. The one thing to take into consideration is that the panel may be employees that work there, and that do not interview on a regular basis so they have no skill in doing it. If they seem awkward and if there are uncomfortable silences, it's not you, it's them. Resist the temptation to fill those silences, unless you have something relevant to say. I've done these panels before and seen candidates babble themselves out of a job. Just answer, smile, and wait for the next question. You'll make a good impression that will work in your favor if you work with the panel interviewers, instead of concentrating primarily on getting your point across.

Good luck!

They're passing out the questions in advance. That tells you nothing?

R26 - thanks. That's a great tip. Will keep it in mind.

They hate people who are intelligent and competent.

Thanks r29. That explains a lot.

R30's not me, BTW. Just, you know, for the record.

R27-

My cousin was turned down for a police job because he was too smart. They said he would bored.

Government employees are parasites.

I was shocked at the corruption and cover-up. You really have to put on a mask when you work in the public sector because they are all out to do each other in - in order to save their jobs. Been there done that - in terms of being on the receiving end. Evil is how a former colleague characterized the work environment.

OP? R13 here. Yes, that's exactly how they do it in my state. However, after you finish speaking, they are obligated to ask, "Does that complete your answer?' I still find it a bit off-putting even though I've had many of those interviews.

They do allow you to ask questions at the end. I always ask about what software they use (I'm a statistician). Pay scales in my state are public information and you always start at the bottom, so there's no point in asking about that unless CA does it differently. Same with all the other benefits. But if you want to ask about those things, you can. Generally speaking, people who go to work for the government do so because of the benefits; they sure don't do it for the pay! So they expect you to care about the benefits.

One more thing I just thought of: don't be surprised if they go on and on and on about what the job entails in gory detail. Nod and smile. My sincere hope is that if you get it, you're happy there. I've been working hard at trying not to walk off the job for months...

Good luck!

OP already sounds like bureaucrat. You'll fit right in. R31.

Op, if you get easily frustrated by lack progress, and things that make sense, it might not be for you. Also, don't be surprised if you get the job and discover that the people who interviewed you don't do anything all day, but are quick to pipe up about how many years they have in (years doing jack shit). My boss is one of those. Old bat.

r6 has the best advice. Follow instructions to the letter. If your contract states your salary level is negotiated by a public office workers or professional union, you should join, as soon as you feel like the job is a good fit. Don't make it known you joined. You might not think you'll need a union, but your coworkers might try to blame things on you, because of their incompetence. Or your work environment might become hostile if you get new leadership.

Also, depending upon if your area is prone to major natural disasters, (hurricanes, earthquakes, etc) public employees are often required to work during those emergencies.

I think OP will be perfect for a government job. He's only reading the posts that he likes.

How long does it take to hear anything back after you apply?

Hopefully not FOUR YEARS, idiot thread bumper.