Hillary Clinton "The only way to STOP Trump is NOT TO VOTE Bernie Sanders"

I'm voting on the ABC Democratic Ticket - Anyone But Clinton

She is getting desperate.

2008 all over again.

Nonsense. Hillary is a great nominee in her own right.

This does reek of desperation on her part. Poor thing. Go against Sanders on your own merits, don't bring up the GOP as the boogey man.

If Sanders can't beat Trump and Hill can't beat Sanders, why should I believe she can beat Trump?

Because she is more moderate R6, Bernie can't win in a general election.

Sanders may be too far left for my taste but at least he is honest.

Hilary and her husband are infamously dishonest.

[quote] Because she is more moderate [R6], Bernie can't win in a general election.

I'm not so sure. The latest Quinnipiac poll finds that Bernie would beat Trump by 13 points, a bigger margin than Hillary would.

Bernie Sanders has always been called unelectable, and yet he's always won elections. It's the media and the pundits who have a problem with Bernie, not the voters.

I think Hill's lack of honesty and being obsessively secretive about everything is rooted in her perceived need to hide her lesbianism.

Clinton is the worst.

I'm really praying that Lizzie Warren gets in it.

All primary candidates claim to be the most electable, that's all she was saying.

Except R9, Bernie hasn't faced months on end of the constant Faux News spew and/or superpac-funded smears. Get back to us then.

I'm voting for Sanders in the primary. I've already sent him contributions.

No one is going to elect a socialist. They really aren't. Former Mayor Bloomberg is going to jump in as a 3rd Party if Sanders gets the nomination.

I am, R16.

Well, fuck Hillary.

[quote]Hilary and her husband are infamously dishonest.

This just proves if you tell a lie often, people will believe it.

My relatives were Socialists in the 30s. I like Bernie a lot. But I truly believe he's unelectable. Bernie is a Jewish atheist from New York. Cruz is already attacking Trump for his "New York values". That's a dog whistle if ever there was one. Remember the reasons that the South and parts of the West didn't want to send money to the Northeast? There is widespread distrust of Jews in this country. I personally believe it is totally unwarranted but do not underestimate the breadth and depth of this attitude in the US. It exists even among otherwise liberal people. And being Jewish is also a problem regarding the African American vote. Add to that the number of deeply religious Americans, especially African Americans, who may balk at voting for an atheist and you're talking real trouble down the road. They might just stay home. I don't see them coming out in the numbers they did for Obama.

The media isn't attacking him now, but if he got the nomination, they would be saying SOCIALIST every five seconds. Remember how they destroyed Howard Dean's candidacy simply because he cheered at his own rally?

I'd love a Bernie Presidency, but Wall Street and their puppet media will not allow it.

[quote]Remember the reasons that the South and parts of the West didn't want to send money to the Northeast? There is widespread distrust of Jews in this country.

No, we don't send money to the northeast because we just plain don't like Yankees. I don't care muslim, christian, jewish, buddhist, but yankee is correctable and unforgivable.

Today on the campaign trail

“Today, I want to speak to a very specific group of voters, if you are thinking of voting Bernie Sanders, I am speaking to you. A vote for Bernie Sanders is a vote for Donald Trump.” - Hillary Clinton

The only way to STOP Donald Trump, is not to vote for Bernie Sanders.

If you don't think Trump won't go after Bernie for being Jewish and atheist then you're delusional.

I can hear him now, "is Sanders first allegiance to the US or Israel? I don't know..." "Atheist? I believe in God and I think anyone who want to lead this country should also."

I can't wait to vote for her.

No snark. Can't wait.

R25 then you have to start telling your friends, the only way to STOP Trump is NOT to vote Bernie Sanders.

Now Chelsea is saying that Bernie wants to take away your health insurance and gut Medicare!

The polls show Bernie beating Trump by a wider margin than Hillary.

R28 we have to STOP Trump

They haven't even started on Bernie. At least Hillz is battle tested. I like both but they will destroy Sanders and it will be easy.

She's right.

[quote]Sanders may be too far left for my taste but at least he is honest.

Uhhh......Milo supporter?

Are all of these anti-Sanders people going to stay home on election day if he's the nominee?

I think we are just going to be in for a shock in the first two primaries and I am talking about the republicans, don't go believe all the polls.

Cornel West ‏@CornelWest 24 Aug 2015 Brother Bernie and Brother Trump are authentic human beings in stark contrast to their donor-driven opponents.

r33, he won't win. Seriously, I will always vote for the democratic nominee regardless but you guys are handing a win to the republicans and I truly hope it won't be Trump.

Relax, Hilldog will be back on top of the polls soon.

R36, just in case not. Eill you stay home? Is that the plan?

Eill stays out all night.

r37, can you read?

People like Bernie Sanders, so. They like the old, white, Jewy, Atheist.

I'm not anti-Sanders and I will happily vote for him if he's the nominee. I will encourage everyone I know to vote for him. But I believe the deep anti-Semitic streak in this country will do him in.

Alright, you're blocked.

R41, so all of these people who support Sanders (which is more than Trump, in polls) don't realize he's Jewish? Will his Jewiness be a big reveal? Maybe they'll do it on sweeps week.

I'll ask who but if it's me, you won't see this. I'm thinking it's r42 though

How can you be Jewish and Atheist?

Bernie supporters couldn't even handle Sander's own embarrassing faux pas (getting into Clinton's data, badly handling the Black Lives Matter protesters). There's no way they could handle a Republican grilling, much less the mainstream media.

They so want Sanders to be the next Obama, but Obama was 1.) MUCH younger and 2.) had established good relationships with prominent politicians prior to getting the nomination . Sanders has been in Washington for years and apparently doesn't have good relationships with many of his cronies. A disaster in the making in terms of trying to bring about the substantial change he's pushing for.

R45 The same way you can be a liberal and against the Brady Bill.

R43 - yes. A lot of people have heard him speak and he's great. But many don't know his background. How many times have you heard about it in the media. It's difficult to bring up without sounding anti-Semitic. So I do believe a great many people do not know.

Trump will be the next president, he represents the soul of current America.

R47, well, keep your fingers crossed people don't vote for Sanders because he's Jewish. I'm sure you're right because you want to be right. I support Clinton or Sanders. You and R46 might get your wish. It's too bad R46 is a Clinton supporter -- that kind of bums me out. Not good company.

I would much rather be wrong and have him in the WH rather than any republican.

Don't make assumptions

[quote]You and [R46] might get your wish

I said nothing about Sanders being Jewish. Typical deflection crap.

[quote] It's too bad [R46] is a Clinton supporter -- that kind of bums me out. Not good company.

I support a politician who's able to get the job done. A lot of Sanders supporters aren't even supporting the candidate as they are supporting the ideology that he represents. None of which is going to get accomplished given the current political climate in Washington.

If he's the nominee, stay home bud.

The goal is who is the best to STOP Trump. A vote for Sanders is a vote for Trump.

You should let everyone iniw he's a Jew. Stand on a street corner with a sign at a Sanders event with a sign that reads, "Bernie Sanders is a Jew!" Or , "Can a Jew stop Trump? Clinton 2016!" Be like the God Hates F@gs people.

You need to get the word out that he's a Jew.

Or, an Athiest. If that's what he really is. You need to remind people of who Sanders *really is. Apparently, they don't know.

Stop Trump Now

She's right on this, though. Sanders can't win the presidency. We just had eight years of "secret socialist" bullshit about Obama, what do you think an ACTUAL socialist is going to get from the media and the public?

He's also old, somewhat ineffectual, hypocritical on key issues, and has burned even more bridges than Hillary (in part because people may dislike Hillary but she gets shit done, so people continue to work with her). Bernie only has any purchase in the primaries right now because there's a lot of guys who can't vote for a woman, it makes them feel icky.

I wish a socialist did win the Presidency. That would be good for America.

How so, r57?

The Hillary people meed to get out and vote then.

Need

There is no way on earth that Hillary is going to command such a large portion of the black vote as Obama did - they just won't vote. A lot of people, who would have voted democrat, just don't like her. She is her own worst enemy and if she wanted a Democrat to get in the White House she would have not run and endorsed another candidate right from the start.

Hillary is scared and getting desperate. Her criminal activities are catching up with her. The left wing media will not be able to ignore it much longer.

No matter who it will be, my vote is for a Democrat

That is all.

I'm voting for HRC.

BS voted for the gun industry consistently.

He wrote a rape fantasy in the 70s. He's a creep.

Republican Liars!

Hillary is a good egg. I'm voting for her!

Two minutes of it and I am uncomfortable also.

This will be bad if he does start to win.

Mica Brzezinski (Morning Joe) asked Hillary his morning to tell the show's viewers to briefly summarize her platform. To put it all in one statement that would clearly articulate the main features of her policy platform.

Mica cited the recent example of a Hillary campaign aide who was asked the same question but went on and on and on and on detailing the platform in great detail.

So back to Hillary's appearance on this morning on Morning Joe. Mica clearly asked for a brief summary of her campaign platform. Hillary rattled on about her first job after graduating from law, Bill's strong leadership when President, Chelsea and "being a grandmother", and ON AND ON it went. No room or breather for anyone listening to interject just a highway of steady heavily rehearsed Policy stances.

I thought to myself: She is unable to bring clarity in relation to the key elements of her campaign platform so viewers (or voters) can have a clear but powerful understanding of her core vision and principles. Instead Hillary produced a diatribe.

R67, she shouldn't be able to condense her policy into a brief statement. It's too complicated, and people need to understand that. The same with these stupid Republican debates. There are too many candidates for each to speak intelligently about any subject. It's more about how they handle conflict and stress. The Dem debates have more content, because they have fewer people speaking.

R67, stick to Twitter.

Why shouldn't she be able to r68? If she can't articulate why she should have the job in a brief statement she can't do the job.

Again the only way to STOP Trump is not to vote for Bernie Sanders

The big worry, Hillary can't do the job. I know she can't, because I believe that to begin with and then look for anything to support it, no matter how contrived.

R72 don't you want to STOP Trump?

Right now I'd settle for stopping you.

R74 why are you supporting Trump?

The same bigoted/racist and xenophobes that cream themselves over Trump will expand exponentially at the thought of the Socialist Bogeyman Trump will paint Sanders as. He won't win, and he won't govern any more effectively than Obama in a Republican Congress or a majority Democratic congress for that matter. I'm with Hillary.

Hopefully Bernie's coattails will be long and wide.

I'm voting for Bernie, not the self-serving Hillary Clinton.

Desperation for Hillary occurred earlier this week when she went on "Ellen" and played Charades with Tony Goldwyn.

Trump would destroy Sanders over his atheism. Democrats would lose in a landslide.

Didn't Democrats learn their lesson with McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis?

I wonder if the "Trump would destroy Sanders" posters are the same posters who posted endlessly last summer about Trump never make it this far. If yes, keep posting. Please.

[quote]If she can't articulate why she should have the job in a brief statement she can't do the job.

That's not why she was on the show, though. This early in the game, you want to get the foundational image of the candidate out, and there are TONS of talking points involved in that. You're putting out an entire personality and C.V. to the world. Later on, you narrow it down to key focus points.

Clinton's choice was to either pander to Mica's question, or answer the question she WISHED Mica would have asked. She chose the latter.

And in a campaign where Trump just makes shit up and the media talks about it for days like it's a legitimate claim, I think we can allow Clinton her lengthy replies. It's pointless to hold Clinton to some nitpicky standard while letting Trump just blather on with deliberate lies, bigotry and mistakes.

Dem/liberals eat their own.

[quote]They haven't even started on Bernie. At least Hillz is battle tested. I like both but they will destroy Sanders and it will be easy.

THIS. I like Bernie and will happily vote for him if he's the nominee, but my fear is that everyone (the media in particular) loves him now because they want to push Hillary off a cliff, but the minute that happens and he moves on to the general opposite Trump (or whomever the Rethug nominee is), the media will then show its true colors and set about ripping him to shreds. I hadn't even heard about this rape fantasy stuff until I read this thread and why? Because it doesn't serve their agenda to talk about it right now. Once Hillary's campaign has been successfully neutralized, however, you can just bet the rape fantasy story will explode and be played on a continuous loop all the way up to November.

Look, I by no means believe that Hillary, if she was the nominee, would be a sure thing to win the White House -- on the contrary, I think she would have one helluva time and might even lose. That said, I still can't help but feel she'd have more of a chance than Bernie, which is the only reason I fear his being the nominee. Why on earth do you think the Rethugs are always so Bernie positive? Because he's not the one they fear in the general, Hillary is. They already figure that beating him will be a cakewalk -- and my biggest fear is that they are correct about that.

But as I said, I would still vote for him and happily so.

Bill Mahr: Hillary will lose, Trump will win.

On Friday night, Bill Maher returned to HBO’s Real Time with Bill Maher in typical form, with the expected edgy monologue, the hilarious desk bit, the unfiltered panel discussion, and the upstream against political correctness and Islam. In this case, the subject was the wave of New Year’s Eve sexual assaults in Cologne, Germany, and when Maher started to connect it with Islam and refugees, the panel fell comically silent. Like, stopped breathing silent.

He responded to the familiar accusation that he’s indicting all Muslims by replying that he isn’t, but “you don’t want to indict any of them,” and predicted that the Democrats will lose this election because the choice is between a “demagogue” like Trump who might keep us safe, and people like Hillary Clinton and Obama, “who won’t even say radical Islamic terrorism.”

I will not vote for a Republican in a presidential election. So, I'm going to vote in the general election for whoever will be the Democratic nominee for 2016. But, I think the electability question is bullshit. This country is changing. Life is changing. We are not, certainly not socially, living in the 1970s. We are not awaiting the second coming of Ronald Reagan.

One of the reasons why the establishment of the Democratic Party is having an issue with self-identified Democrats is that they underestimate their party's base on wanting policies to be very liberal. When it comes to voting, the "center" is not so much about wanting centrist policies. The "center" is about making a choice between what is being offered by both parties (and their nominees).

If Hillary Clinton doesn't win the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination, and Bernie Sanders does instead, part of what will explain it is a terrible misread on where the Democratic Party's base of voters are at politically. And if Bernie Sanders, rather than Hillary Clinton, wins the Democratic Party's 2016 nomination for president of the United States, a part of what will explain why he succeeded is that he did the best job of connecting, of being in touch, with that base of the party with regard for issues.

R56 writes,

She's right on this, though. Sanders can't win the presidency. We just had eight years of "secret socialist" bullshit about Obama, what do you think an ACTUAL socialist is going to get from the media and the public?

_____________________________________________________________

Can you explain your understanding of what socialism is? And tell us why it is bad.

If I had wanted Hillary I would have voted for her in the 2008 primary. I am not a Clinton fan. I'd vote for her if I had to but I really want Bernie Sanders. I think on the plane of reality (as opposed to the plane of news cycle hype) he's far more electable and would be a far better president.

[quote]How can you be Jewish and Atheist?

My parents are Jewish. I had a Bar-Mitvah. I don't believe in any of it, and I don't go to temple - ever. I am forced to go to Passover, but that's more like a family dinner with some singing & stories I know that are completely made up and unsubstantiated by the Egyptian fossil record.

There you have a Jewish Athiest.

BS is pro war. He wants to bomb the shit out of the Palestinians.

BS is pro gun. He is why we can't sue gun makers.

When BS wrote a disgusting rape fantasy at age 39, HRC was working on the watergate hearings.

He won't win the presidency. I can't caucus for a disgusting pig.

Age 30 not 39

I think the Anti-Semitism is grossly overstated in the US. Every fundie I've met rants and raves about "God's chosen people" and "God's chosen land" (Israel). If anything, being Jewish will help Bernie with poor, religious whites.

[quote]being Jewish will help Bernie with poor, religious whites.

Keep dreaming.

Bernie supporters, as the repugs stated in the last debate, when asked what of the possibility that Bernie is the nominee - "then we would win all 50 states"

I don't think they would win all 50 states but it won't be pretty. Could be Dukakis like.

Well, there are more freaks out there than I ever thought...with the rise of the internet, I've recently learned that the jews are responsible for 9/11, controlling all the banks, the Illuminati, and worse...oh and they faked the holocaust.

Actually, I learned that there are tens of thousands of people who believe this shit...

The right is anti Semitic, the left is anti women.

[quote] I really want Bernie Sanders.

But a vote for Sanders is a vote for Trump. So why are you voting for Trump?

Hillary and Chelsea Clinton are liars. Chelsea saying Bernie want to get rid of medicare. Hey bitch, he's a socialist!

Bernie's young male supporters are anti-woman.

Bernie will get creamed outside of lily white Iowa and NH.

[R51], you say "ideology" like it's a bad thing. People are attracted by Sanders' ideas. Which is more hopeful for democracy in the long term than personality-based voting. The latter is the seed of demagoguery.

And please stop, "a vote for Sanders is a vote for Trump" troll. Repeating things mechanically does not make them true. Whatever Fox News might think. Give an argument.

[quote]Ah. Somebody from either side (Rodgers or Munn camp) leaked that engagement news.

So his supporters are Datalounge posters...

R100 but it is true. As Hillary said the only way to STOP Trump is NOT to vote for Bernie Sanders

[quote]Bernie's young male supporters are anti-woman.

Didn't copy...see above.

[quote]She's right on this, though. Sanders can't win the presidency.

Sorry, you're wrong. He polls better than Hillary in the head-to-head match-ups.

[quote]Bernie only has any purchase in the primaries right now because there's a lot of guys who can't vote for a woman, it makes them feel icky.

Sorry, but no. Thanks for playing.

R97, because they don't want to be held responsible for hard decisions and compromises.

They'd rather rebel against the White House than maintain it.

A vote for BS is a vote for a republican White House.

I think that Clinton would completely implode were she to win the nomination.

Bernie Sanders Is Right: Hillary Clinton Is in “Serious Trouble”

Leading in New Hampshire and gaining in Iowa, the socialist candidate poses a real threat to Clinton’s campaign. by

Tina Nguyen

The aura of inevitability surrounding Hillary Clinton is suddenly looking more fragile. As Democrats prepare for the Iowa and New Hampshire primaries, opponent Bernie Sanders is giving the front-runner a run for her money in both states, raising the possibility that Clinton could face another 2008-style defeat if she doesn't act fast to solidify her support on the left.

Speaking with reporters on Monday, Sanders touted his competitive poll numbers against the Clinton machine: not only does a new poll place Sanders within three points of Clinton in Iowa, the self-described democratic socialist Vermont senator is actually winning by a slim margin in several New Hampshire polls. A new Monmouth poll released on Tuesday puts Sanders a whopping 14 points ahead in the Granite State. At this point, Clinton’s best New Hampshire strategy might be to simply make it a close race.

“Secretary Clinton and her campaign is in serious trouble,” Sanders said, adding that she was no longer the “anointed” one. “So obviously in that scenario what people do is start attacking. Suddenly Bernie Sanders is not a nice guy. That is not surprising when you have a Clinton campaign that is now in trouble and now understands that they can lose.”

Given Clinton’s recent activity, Sanders might be right: perhaps looking to stave off an embarrassing repeat of 2008, when she surprisingly lost Iowa by a wide margin to a first-term senator with a weird name, Clinton has racked up several prominent gun-control endorsements in the past few days from the Brady Campaign and former Arizona congresswoman Gabby Giffords, highlighting Sanders’s alleged weakness on the issue. Clinton has also stepped up her attacks against Sanders on the campaign trail, pointing out in stump speeches that the Vermont senator has voted several times for pro-gun legislation—notably a 2005 bill that protected gun manufactures from criminal action when their firearms are used in crimes. (In the press release announcing their endorsement, Brady Campaign president Dan Gross called the bill “truly evil.”)

But Sanders still has the advantage on income inequality, a central concern of his campaign and an issue that Clinton has struggled to talk about as fluently. It doesn’t help that Clinton only revealed her plan to tax the mega-rich this week, and from a solely populist standpoint, it certainly won’t help that her tax increases aren’t as drastic as Sanders’s proposal.

Clinton might not be able to count on help from the White House on this one, either. In a recent interview with CNN, Vice President Joe Biden observed that it’s “relatively new” for Clinton to talk about Sanders’s pet issue: “Hillary’s focus has been other things up to now, and that's been Bernie's—no one questions Bernie's authenticity on those issues.”

Still, there are 20 days until Iowa, enough time for any and all scandals to strategically tank a campaign. Major banks have collapsed in less time.

_Update (2:45 P.M.)__: A new Quinnipiac poll released on Tuesday afternoon shows that Sanders is out-polling Clinton by 5 points in Iowa. This is a good time to imagine what Hillary Clinton keeps in her Panic Room.

Although I support Hillary, I think I'd probably be more inclined to volunteer for Bernie if he miraculously gets the nomination. I'm very liberal and it'd be our first real shot of getting a true liberal in for decades. I doubt he could beat Trump, but I'd certainly be motivated to help him try.

I didn't know about this rape/fantasy thing and now I feel I must research Bernie and his platform with women before I would considering voting for him if he got the nomination. I am a big Hillary Supporter and have supported the nominee in 2008 (Obama) when she lost then. I always figured I will support whichever democrat won but now I have to learn more about him. He almost seems relevant now.

I prefer Bernie's policies, but I don't think there's any way in hell he could win a general election -- especially once the Republicans make an issue of just how much taxes would have to go up to pay for everything he proposes to do.

I also don't think Bernie winning Iowa and New Hampshire poses an existential threat to the Clinton campaign. He doesn't stand a chance in the southern primaries. Still, this does show that Hillary is far more vulnerable than I would have thought six months ago.

I can't imagine what damage the Republicans will do if they control the Presidency, House and Senate. The possibility of several looming Supreme Court appointments could extend the damage well beyond the next four years.

I think people are allowed kinky, un-pc sexual fantasies, but it sounds like he was excessively indiscreet about his. But that was a LONG time ago and I just don't care. Also gun control, it'd be nice, but with all the other wonderful left possibilities he represents, it's pretty irrelevant. I certainly overlook plenty of faults with Hillary.

[quote] The right is anti Semitic,

I've never seen anti-semitism anywhere that could hold a candle to the levels of anti-semitism on DL. Don't most people on DL at least pretend to be left-leaning?

I'm always wishing Hillary would just STOP being a robot and let loose, she never does and that's why, once again she is flirting with failure. Make no mistake, she could lose again, and that would be really bad for us all. Her team is being surprisingly flat footed at this stage, what the fuck is going on at her Brooklyn HQ?

We haven't seen enough of her yet, she's fierce in the debates, she'll mop the floor with Trump. When she's out there everyday going toe to toe with him, her ratings will rise.

R113. Good point.

Rather than focusing on Trump right now, HRC needs to try to put Sanders away. She is not going to out-left Sanders. Those blue-collar Democrats that largely backed her in 2008 need to be found again. Some of them have gravitated to Trump.

For months the polls on CNN and elsewhere have been showing that SANDERS would beat Trump by a wider margin than Clinton would.

I guess she doesn't think voters have actually looked at the polls but just assume that SHE is the "leading candidate" or whatever because that is how the media sells her. I am so sick of her smug, arrogant phoniness. Sick of CNN, sick of the DNC and sick of her.

Most people on DL believe in freedom, which is why their opinions are deemed "anti-Semitic."

[quote]Also gun control, it'd be nice, but with all the other wonderful left possibilities he represents, it's pretty irrelevant

With all the shootings that have been going on over the last decade, you think the issue of gun control is irrelevant?

In the context of everything else he's offering, yes. It's not a perfect world and we'll never have a perfect candidate. Overall he's much more liberal than Hillary, we all know that. And I like her and think she's more liberal than people think.

This backwards country will never elect a woman as president. It played out in 2008, when they showed they were more sexist than racists and that is saying a lot because this country is very racists.

Women haven't got a shot in hell. We never even passed the Equal Rights Amendment. Women are just as guilty, we hate other women just as much or even more so then men.

R119 What he's offering and what he can actually deliver are two entirely different things.

I'd be more willing to jump on the bandwagon if he can explain just how he would be more effective in implementing a complete change of policy than Obama, a moderate democrat, who was still stonewalled by Congress and the House on a constant basis.

It's weird how you see new replies to a thread but it's by somebody you've ignored.

Hillary is way too cautious and too operationally controlled for fear she will make some gaffe. She needs to hit the interview circuit more. She appeared on Morning Joe (phone) for the first time Friday). She has got to connect with voters. Releasing plans are fine. She has to sell them directly to voters. She also needs a theme beyond 'women', that is simple enough that most of the electorate grasps.

The GOP will hammer Sanders on socialism. He's a populist that so far has escaped attacks and scrutiny. He has not been really challenged yet. Hillary is hitting him on guns. That's going nowhere. He has to be taken to task about economics. As Hillary, Sanders has been a big supporter of the Federal Reserve and how this has contributed to excess borrowing. Sanders cannot implement his policies without a major tax increase, and am not just referencing the rich. HRC has to address the taxation of the middle class as an angle.

Yes I know that r121, and I'm a Hillary supporter. But it's like arguing why vote for Dems, they're just as bad as the Repugs. No they're not, because even the most moderate Dem is way better than a Repug, because at least the possibility exists for liberal reform. Obama seemed cold on gay rights to many, but look how that turned out. Bernie is the only candidate where there's at least the possibility of radical (for US) liberal policies, single-payer, serious Wall Street reform, etc.

I think the opposite is true.

I'm just saying I'd enthusiastically support him if he gets the nomination.

But also Hillary isn't even promising single-payer and serious Wall Street reform, so of course we're not going to get them from her.

I'd rather have Jew Bernie or Obnoxious Donald than Hillary.

In my heart, I'm for Bernie, but my head steers me towards Hillary. It's theorized that DNC has really gone out of their way to hide their debates on days and times when fewer people will be home watching in the apparent effort to diminish Hillary's competition, when in actuality their weak and wane debate schedule is actually hurting Hillary, because that is where she shines and not enough people are seeing it.

Maybe Trump will be a radical reformer, but I sure wouldn't count on it, and don't. Also there's the little matter of the Supreme Court. If you want liberalism, there's only one party.

It would be interesting to see Trump in the White House -- he shares many hard nosed traits with LBJ, as opposed to pussy Obama, who never even tried to fight the opposition.

Whether a hard nose in the White House would help or hurt Main Street, remains to be seen.

Still, I can't shake those bad memories of Arnold and Jesse Ventura.

Has everyone seen Trump's late 90s quote that if he ran, it'd be as a Republican, because they're all Faux News idiots who'd believe any bullshit he shoveled at them? Things that make you go hmmm, possible Trojan Horse. But if it's going to happen, just let it happen on its own. He's too risky, it's more likely he is what he appears, not wolves' clothing he'll discard in the White House

HRC is too far right. For that matter, so is Bernie. Why can't we have REAL progressives in this country. Nobody, certainly not Elizabeth Warren, that even considered running was a REAL progressive.

[quote] Why can't we have REAL progressives in this country.

Because there's nothing in it for big money. Maybe we could just settle for what we can get and appreciate that. The little guy is always essentially powerless to some degree, it's the human condition.

Angry lesbian alert @ r120.

Leave it to the self-loathing gays to turn on anyone who supports them. Hillary has made gay rights a cornerstone of her campaign, from the video announcing her candidacy, to choosing an openly gay man to run her campaign. So, naturally, some gays want to demonize her.

Bernie, on the other hand, never mentions gays.

I'm 100% pro HRC.

BS is a single issue candidate.

Gun control is more important to me than toppling Wall Street.

Also, he was thirty fucking years old when he documented his rape fantasies. I was a grown-up at that age....working, paying a mortgage, saving for retirement. And that clown was writing about getting off on the abuse of women. And that women secretly fantasize about getting gang raped.

What a dick.

Then you're stupid R137. The economy IS the issue people care about. HRC doesn't see that because HRC went along with the false dawn of Clintonomics and though she should have renounced it, she never has.

[quote]Can you explain your understanding of what socialism is? And tell us why it is bad.

I didn't say it was bad, R87.

[quote]I've never seen anti-semitism anywhere that could hold a candle to the levels of anti-semitism on DL. Don't most people on DL at least pretend to be left-leaning?

The Nazis are imports from Stormfront. They're not gay, they just astroturf the internet with antisemitism. Actual DLers are assholes but generally not antisemitic, in my experience.

"...his rape fantasies"

Jews are so dirty.

R140 forgets those were Sanders' rape fantasies, not anyone else's.

I like Bernie but haven't been able to see his candidacy as viable since he abandoned the stage when confronted by a couple of activists in Seattle. He's not going to do well against entrenched corporate interests when he can't even deal with a couple of hecklers. It makes his ability to be steadfast on any of his proposed changes doubtful.

R138, I don't expect BS to fix the economy. He's been in congress for how long? He's just as responsible for fucking it up as anyone.

Besides, I have mutual funds. And interest rates are going up.

Unfortunately for you, the economy is not an issue for a lot of people. My college education is paid for. So is my car, and soon my house will be. Gun control is more important to me. And foreign policy. And gay rights.

Hey, r141. Don't talk to me about it. Explain it to all of the women democrats. While BS was jerking off, HRC was working and gaining experience. And then explain it to all the conservatives. Porn is still considered taboo to society. Nobody wants a president who shared his rape fantasies.

[quote]Then you're stupid [R137]. The economy IS the issue people care about. HRC doesn't see that because HRC went along with the false dawn of Clintonomics and though she should have renounced it, she never has.

The economy has never been better than it was under Bill Clinton. Most Americans would give anything to have the Clinton economy back.

Stop worrying, Hillary. Tell them how great YOU are and get a decent slogan.

Bernie appeals to the far left, sure. But no socialist Jew is going to win a general election.

Get out there and vote R145. Get out there and vote.

Sanders supporters are jealous of anyone who's successful, and they want to make those people pay.

"Let's turn America into a socialist country so I don't have to feel like a failure anymore."

The Clinton economy wasn't really Clinton's though -- it was tech + offshoring yet to really kick in + banking laws still being intact + the sudden infusion of main Street money (via 401ks) into the stock market.

Then the looting started.

It's 2008 all over again.

Clinton Campaign Underestimated Sanders Strengths, Allies Say

Advisers to Hillary Clinton, including former President Bill Clinton, believe that her campaign made serious miscalculations by forgoing early attacks on Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont and failing to undercut his archliberal message before it grew into a political movement that has now put him within striking distance of beating Mrs. Clinton in Iowa and New Hampshire.

According to Democrats close to the Clintons and involved with her campaign, Mrs. Clinton and the former president are also unnerved by the possibility that Mr. Sanders will foment a large wave of first-time voters and liberals that will derail her in Iowa, not unlike Barack Obama’s success in 2008, which consigned Mrs. Clinton to a third-place finish. They have asked her advisers about the strength of the campaign’s data modeling and turnout assumptions in Iowa, given that her 2008 campaign’s predictions were so inaccurate.

As the Democratic rivals prepare for what is likely to be a contentious televised debate on Sunday night, the Clintons are particularly concerned that her “rational message,” in the words of an aide, is not a fit with a restless Democratic primary electorate. Allies and advisers of the Clintons say Mr. Sanders is clearly connecting with voters through his emotional, inspiring rallying cry that the American economic and political systems are rigged for the wealthy and powerful. By contrast, Mrs. Clinton has been stressing her electability and questioning the costs of Mr. Sanders’s ideas.

She's a terrible manager and chooses terrible people. I really think this Huma person is not helping. HRC needs to go back to Wellesley and have some of her college buddies 'splain a thing or two to her about the need for a progressive populist approach this year.

You'd think if she didn't take alarm from Saunders, that she would have had alarm bells going off due to Trump (who, by the way, has said he favors raising taxes on the rich). Populism and class warfare are what will sell this year. If she doesn't see that, she's being willfully stupid. As she was in 2008 when she refused to admit the country was in recession until it was too late.

She didn't "take alarm" from Obama in 2008. What makes you think she's gotten any smarter or less arrogant? Bitch really does think she is owed the White House.

It's Hillary's time, loser.

[quote]Leave it to the self-loathing gays to turn on anyone who supports them. Hillary has made gay rights a cornerstone of her campaign, from the video announcing her candidacy, to choosing an openly gay man to run her campaign. So, naturally, some gays want to demonize her.

[quote]Bernie, on the other hand, never mentions gays.

Bernie has been pro-gay for decades. A few years back, Hillary was still against gay marriage.

[quote]The economy has never been better than it was under Bill Clinton. Most Americans would give anything to have the Clinton economy back.

He was just as complicit in deregulation as anybody else. The Glass-Steagal act was repealed on his watch. The boon Clinton years were a house of cards. Still much better than Reagan or Bush, though.

All this earlier praise of Joe Biden, is showing its colors. Biden carried on such theatrics after his son's death, it almost became disruptive. He has constantly been trying to undermine HRC'S campaign.

If the only reason I have to vote for Hillary is to stop Trump, then she's not getting my vote. She's stupid for having said this as comes across as big as a fearmonger as he does.

B. Clinton signed NAFTA and you somehow believe he had nothing to do with off-shoring? The US must seriously have the lowest IQ citizenry in the world.

The DLC is not "under-estimating" how liberal their base is; they are a conservative organization whose entire intent is to stay as far to the right as possible while still getting votes. The Republican party going so far right that they've fallen off the map, doesn't automatically make the Democratic party liberal like some sort of imaginary instantaneous karmic balance. Even our Green Party is not 'progressive' by a global definition of such.

People who can mind fuck themselves into being ok with voting for 'the lesser of two evils' rather than anyone who actually represents their ideals and ideas are the same people who need to claim 'a vote for bernie/nader is a vote for trump/bush' in order to keep the cognitive dissonance of their political stockholm syndrome in check.

Hillary WAS AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE just a few years ago you dumb cunts!

Hillary also has electability issues. Her negatives are alarmingly high in the polls. The polls I've seen show that somewhere between 45-48% of voters would never vote for her. If she's elected I think she'd have the highest negatives of any winning candidate since Nixon (who won in 1968 because Wallace split the Democrats with his 3rd party candidacy). Very little room for error with Clinton as the nominee. People have long ago made up their minds about how they feel about her.

Hillary's time has passed. She's the female Adlai Stevenson.

Melania Trump will make an exquisite First Lady.

R154. Despite being pro gay, Bernie's record on supporting gay marriage is no better than a lot of democrats.

That's true R163. But, who else is there to vote for?

In 1999, the Vermont Supreme Court ruled that the state had to guarantee protections and benefits to gay couples, a stop short of legalizing gay marriage. Sanders approved of the decision.

“The Vermont Supreme Court has unanimously ruled that under the Vermont Constitution, all citizens of the state have the same right to the benefits of marriage,” Sanders said at the time. “I applaud that decision. Vermont has once again shown itself to be a leader in the struggle for human rights.”

But the court also said that the Vermont legislature should decide the issue. Many prominent Democrats, including Sanders’ successor as mayor of Burlington and a gubernatorial nominee, spoke out in favor of gay marriage, but Sanders kept mum.

Peter Freyne, a locally beloved Vermont writer and opinion writer whom Sanders later lauded as “the best political reporter in the state of Vermont,” accused the then-Congressman of obfuscating on his gay rights position.

“Obtaining Congressman Bernie Sanders’ position on the gay marriage issue was like pulling teeth … from a rhinoceros,” Freyne wrote. Freyne described repeated attempts to hear Sanders’ views on gay marriage, and the congressman only said he “supports the current process” in the state legislature. Though Sanders was not in the Vermont state legislature at the time, it was a hot topic in his home state at the time.

“It’s an election year, yet despite the lack of a serious challenger, The Bern’s gut-level paranoia is acting up,” Freyne wrote.

In 2006, when the Bush White House proposed an amendment to the Constitution defining marriage as between a man and a woman, Sanders spoke out against the Republican plan, saying it was “designed to divide the American people.”

But when Sanders was asked by a reporter whether Vermont should legalize same-sex marriage, he said no. “Not right now, not after what we went through,” he said

That is Jewish thinking, r164

"The Clinton economy wasn't really Clinton's though -- it was tech..."

NO economy is the result of what a president does or doesn't do. If it happens that the economy is good during his term(s) he gets credit, that's how it works. You think Reaganomics caused the rebound of the economy in the 1980s? It didn't, but he gets credit. If a dumb turd like Reagan takes credit, I'm giving Democrats like Clinton credit for what happened in the 1990s.

Now, Hillary is going to go after Sanders' health and age. The Clinton camp's internal polling must look worse than the polls that have been released to the media, because her sudden attacks on Sanders reek of panic and desperation.

R167, please tell that to the Obamabots who are still blaming Bush for anything which happens today.

A 74 year old atheist socialist from Vermont would lose in a landslide to whomever the Repubs nominate.

Rubio just said that he will appoint SC justices who will overturn marriage equality. So long abortion rights, gay marriage, ACA, etc.

R170, that has been posted 700 times alteady in this thread. If I blocked you, would I find you're the culprit?

A recent poll showed that Americans would be least likely to vote for a candidate who is a socialist or an atheist.

So what do some Dems want to do: nominate a candidate who is BOTH a socialist AND an atheist.

You can't make this stuff up.

I like Bernie and will vote for him if he is the candidate, but I do have health concerns about someone who will be approaching 80 near the end of his first term. I think Hilary is borderline too old, but mid to late 70's is where I have seen a lot of people suddenly seem to show their age and slow down, tire out, and start to decline mentally.

Hillary is just speaking the truth. Why is that so hard for some people to handle? I like that in a president.

I'm so glad the first Dem primary is in two weeks. Finally we get to move beyond the speculation phase, and get some real data about what's going on. It's true the Bernie is more popular than expected, and this could mirror 2008 if Hillary isn't careful. She's going to have to throw a few bones to the left, just attacking him won't work. As Bernie looks more viable, she's start hemorrhaging support. A black man with a Muslim name, never in a million years!

Apples and oranges between Obama and Sanders .

R172, can you post that poll?

They're both outliers with liberal reputations who everyone said stood no chance. The comparison seemed like a stretch at first, but not anymore, imo.

Hillary is very effective and on point when she's in control and in the lead. But when she is threatened and goes on the attack, or sends her surrogates out to attack, her campaign comes across as desperate and off track. Her attacks on Sanders' health care plan have been rather bizarre (He's going to raise your taxes! He's going to take away your health care!) and mirror the GOP talking points that were used against her when she was fighting for universal health care.

How is it that he beats all Republicans,yet is "unelectable" at the same time?

Obama already developed close ties with Ted Kennedy and other members of the Kennedy family before the primaries. He was hardly an outsider to the political scene.

R72? Hello?

I mean R172.

I'm voting Hillary but agree that statement does sound a bit desperate.

Seriously what does Iowa and New Hampshire tell us about who can win? Not one thing. Iowa especially can turn into a hot mess.

r135, no I'm actually heteroflexible, but thanks for playing.

Just keep making my point for me.

[quote]Seriously what does Iowa and New Hampshire tell us about who can win? Not one thing. Iowa especially can turn into a hot mess.

I do think too much weight and significance is put on these two states.

Iowa and NH are almost entirely white. They do not reflect the base of the Democratic party, which is why they shouldn't have the influence and power that they currently have over our nominating process.

South Carolina, which comes right after, is a true reflection of the Dem party.

Part of Hillary being too guarded is her personality. The other reason, is that she is constantly attacked for being corrupt and unethical, most of which have failed to be proven or void of substance.

It is amazing Chris Cristie says he will prosecute her if elected, given his own bridegate scandal.

Hillary does best when her back is against the wall, and she opens up with her feelings and emotions. Her handlers are no better this time.

Is Iowa still that ridiculous and meaningless caucus system?

I agree r189, I prefer feisty, backed into a corner Hillary.

Her lead all but gone in Iowa, Hillary Clinton deploys Bill to win over voters

With just more than two weeks before Iowa holds the first nominating contests of 2016, former President Clinton is cross-crossing the state, trying to convince voters that his wife is uniquely qualified to be president.

Bill had to forfeit his Saturday afternoon blow job to hightail it to Iowa and rescue his wife's campaign.

Hillary had better be careful if she's going to play the medical records card with Bernie, as she's far less healthy than the public knows.

Similarly, how can she bring up Trump's three marriages without making Bill's womanizing fair game?

The Clinton camp must have decided that the best way to beat Sanders is to veer sharply to the right. First, she and Chelsea attacked Sanders' plan for universal health care. Now, just after Obama lifts sanctions against Iran, she's going against Obama and calling for new sanctions.

We already have a right wing candidate -- people want a left wing choice.

Primaries, Dems run left; GOP runs right. HRC is the closet thing to a centrist, considering both parties.

It may not really be so much about ideology. Most of the electorate is pissed because traditional politicians lie and fail to get anything done. Big money buying votes and pandering to special interests are getting increasingly sickening. Radical campaign financing reform is solely needed. Incumbents, both parties, need to be repeatedly tossed out until some big problems are fixed.

Maybe Socialist isn't quite the dirty word it used to be. 43% of Iowa Democrats consider themselves Socialists, including a third of Hillary's supporters:

[quote] Little noticed in this week’s Des Moines Register-Bloomberg Politics Iowa poll was this finding: a remarkable 43 percent of likely Democratic caucus participants describe themselves as socialists, including 58 percent of Sanders’s supporters and about a third of Clinton’s.

Bernie isn't a democratic socialist, he's a social democrat.

Look it up.

Why he insists on the word is beyond me.

Don't label it, just be it.

[quote] Maybe Socialist isn't quite the dirty word it used to be.

Maybe because they couldn't take Obama down with it?

R149,

Thanks for the post!

_____________

As the Democratic rivals prepare for what is likely to be a contentious televised debate on Sunday night [January 17, 2016], the Clintons are particularly concerned that her “rational message,” in the words of an aide, is not a fit with a restless Democratic primary electorate.

_____________

"Concern" can be thrown out the window. Awareness is what matters. And if her policy ideas - like on public college tuition, on Wall Street, et al. - are "not a fit" for the caucus and primary voters of "a restless Democratic" voting "electorate" it means she's out of touch. A part of what draws the vote from self-identified Democrats, for a presidential nominee of the party, is an aggressive agenda. In a two-way race, if one is connecting and then the other isn't … that's a good way for the one who doesn't connect to end up having lost.

Hillary is correct. The Dems will blow another winnable election by nominating an elderly Jewish Socialist who yells a lot, and spits when he speaks with his Brooklyn accent.

[quote] Hillary had better be careful if she's going to play the medical records card with Bernie, as she's far less healthy than the public knows. . . Similarly, how can she bring up Trump's three marriages without making Bill's womanizing fair game?

PULEEZE. SUPERSIZED PULEEZE.

Sit your ass down with your pretense at your having seen some secret Hillary medical records.

And why in the world would Hillary have to discuss HER HUSBAND'S womanizing? Listen, shit for brains, Hillary is not to be blamed for someone else's conduct. That's on him. just like Trump's conduct is on him.

R202 is a broken record.

Hillary is going to lose, it's fated.

Can someone explain to me why Hillary decided to throw Obama under the bus on the Iran deal? While Obama and Kerry are celebrating a foreign policy success, Hillary decides to join the Republicans in calling for sanctions to be reinstated.

She's just showing her true colors. Bitch supported invading Iraq.

Hillary has AIPAC money dripping from her cunt. And she is more than happy to do anything to get more.

Hillary's right but she should not be the one saying it. It ought to come from a huge consensus of Democratic surrogates. If anyone watched Bill Maher on Real Time Friday, he had Cornelius West, Ralph Reed, and some woman who was Bush 43's Press aide on. West was his usual off the wall asshole, and when he,rhymed his way to a Bernie Sanders endorsement, Ralph Reed and the woman said, in these exact words,"Well that's one thing we can agree on. I'd like to see Bernie Sanders get the nomination too."

I don't understand how stupid people can be. In 2000 we lost a fucking election because we had Ralph Nader in the mix. Those are the same kind of people supporting Sanders.Sanders bitches and complains and displays anger and people find that attractive. But it solves nothing. Since 2011 it should be more than obvious that Congress is a problem. but no one talks about that. They just expect Bernie to" break up those banks, and kick Wall Street's ass." That's it. That's the gist of his campaign.

Between that and the GOP shouting "Benghazi! E Mails!" 24/7 this is supposed defeat Hillary. Well that's just bullshit. I Supported Obama. Bernie Sanders is not his heir. Bernie Sanders wants to get rid of Obamacare. He says he wants to replace it with "Medicare for all!" but his healthcare proposal is not Medicare for all. He knows it isn't and he deliberately misleads.

He is disingenuous about his support of guns and he knows nothing about foreign policy except his knee jerk "I'm against it!" position on Iran. There's more than enough ammo out there but it shouldn't be Hillary doing the attacking. She should go after his policy positions as she has been doing. She asked him about how he intended to pay for this stuff and he has been hedging. No answer. The GOP wants Bernie to be the nominee. They will do anything they can to make that happen. People need to wise up. Bernie is dangerous. He's an old style radcial who wouldn't know WTF to do with it if he got it.

Another thing. Democratic Party strategists should stop making Bernie so important. Stop focusing on him, and focus on the GOP. The GOP wants the Dems to tear one another apart just as much as the Dems want to see the GOP candidates attack one another. That needs to stop. We are in a great position to win this thing, but we can easily snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. We've done it before.

[quote]In 2000 we lost a fucking election because we had Ralph Nader in the mix.

Wrong -- we lost because Gore stopped the Florida recount and let the SCOTUS decide.

Ralph Nader was a huge factor, r210 and you know it.

So was intentionally pissing off the left with Lieberman.

Sanders and Clinton are likely to bring sharp elbows to last Democratic debate before voting starts

After a succession of Democratic presidential debates largely absent of the acrimony and personal affronts that have defined the GOP face-offs, a sharp turn in tone is expected when the Democratic candidates take the stage in Charleston, S.C., on Sunday night.

A tight race will do that. And Hillary Clinton now finds herself in one in the crucial early states of New Hampshire and Iowa, and Sunday’s debate is a key opportunity for either she or rival Bernie Sanders to reshape the race before the first nominating contests Feb. 1.

I like them both, for very different reasons. I will vote for either one that is nominated. Hillary is more electable nationwide, IMHO.

I'm not sure Nader was that big of a factor. You can't say Gore lost votes to them, if they were simply never going to vote for him anyway. People have opinions and vote for whoever they want. Disagree with their choices, but don't assume they were ever going to be lost votes.

Lieberman was almost as bad as Palin, as a running mate, election-wise. He's a disingenuous asshole who reminds me of the ingratiating butcher with his finger on the scale.

Oh, please. Throw one piece of chum out here and the apologists crawl out from under their rocks. Nader was definitely a factor. That is NOT ARGUABLE. You may not like Lieberman, and personally I can't stand him, but he was less a factor than Nader was. In fact Lierberman got on the fucking ticket because of his public outrage at the Lewinsky matter. He pilloried Clinton so viciously he actually developed a constituency around it. Gore was dumb IMO to choose him but he also appealed to Indies who were more conservative. Bill Clinton is very popular right now, but Bill Clinton was a definite liability in 2000. Gore should have run on the Clinton record, but he distanced himself from it for months because of the Lewinsky scandal, and Lieberman was a daily reminder of the scandal. But Lieberman was also a cipher. He was directed to campaign in places where he would do the least harm and he didn't generate a lot of attention. He was certainly no Joe Biden. They did a lot to lower his profile. All that was true. But the fact is Nader ran stronger than anyone expected with A LOT of help from the GOP. That is a fact. I was there. I was on the ground working the 2000 Campaign. Go back and look at the fucking numbers. The election was way too close because of Ralph fucking Nader. Asshole. It's Math no opinion.

Why would someone who didn't vote for Nader (I didn't) want to be an apologist? I just think the assumption that all his votes were losses for Gore isn't true. I think a very good deal of them were never going to vote for him anyway, which greatly reduces his impact. The all votes lost thing is a superficial reading.

R173,

Bernie Sanders will be 75 this year.

Donald Trump will be 70 this year.

If those two become the 2016 presidential nominees, does their five-year age difference matter?

If Hillary Clinton becomes the Democratic nominee, and not Bernie Sanders, it shall be noted that she will turn 69 this year. There is a one-year age difference between The Donald and Hillary. Does their age difference matter?

[quote]Nader was definitely a factor. That is NOT ARGUABLE.

Listen to the Jew making his ruling.

He'll be making rulings even after he is loaded on a truck and driven away./|

How would Datalounge posters react if Bernie Sanders wins the 2016 United States presidential election?

It's also not comparable to Nader because he was siphoning votes, to the extent he was, during a general election. No matter who wins the Dem primaries, it'll a Democrat, the duly elected candidate of the party. Forcing Hillary to the left is a good thing, a very good thing.

R221, given that progressives still outnumber the freeper scum that lurks here (well, I hope that that's the case), I would say the reaction would be one of mostly joy.

R221 I would be in mourning, especially for the people of Palestine. BS is a pro-Israel war hawk. I'm stunned by how many supposedly anti-war liberals don't grasp that.

But in 2016, progressives are anti-gay, anti-women and pro-trans. So nothing should surprise me.

I never thought I'd see so many liberals support a pro-gun congressman who is cis, white, male and heterosexual.

People are idiots. We deserve all the shittiness that we get.

And, yes, I do blame the crazy Nader voters for getting Dubya into office. 9-11 never would have happened under Gore, and we wouldn't have ISIS today.

What we grasp is that imperfection is our only choice. Hillary's a hawk too, I'm fine with either of them. Someone has to be president, and I want it to be a Dem, for the SC especially.

Bernie can't win. I like his ideas and I'd vote for him if he was running in the UK and actually had a chance of winning.

The US has moved so far to the right that there is no way he could get anything through Congress. He's totally divorced from reality on that. Also his idea of free college won't work. College is free in Europe because a minority of people go to university. There are extensive trade school, apprenticeship programs tailored to what most (equivalent) high school students need.

His support for Israel doesn't jive at all with his claims to be anti-war. The only candidate who believably isn't a war hawk is Rand Paul.

Bernie ain't ready for primetime and any Dems who vote for him are cutting off our collective noses to spite our faces. Ralph Nader anyone?

I really don't understand the hate the brogressives have for HRC. Is it simply because she's a woman?

But the simple fact is, you can't browbeat anyone into voting the way you want. The aggressiveness and arrogance of it has the opposite effect, if anything.

Again the only way to STOP Trump & the GOP is NOT TO VOTE BERNIE SANDERS

How more clearer do people have to get?

[quote] The Clinton camp must have decided that the best way to beat Sanders is to veer sharply to the right. First, she and Chelsea attacked Sanders' plan for universal health care. Now, just after Obama lifts sanctions against Iran, she's going against Obama and calling for new sanctions.

I thought she'd go left. It won't work, she'll fuck it up like Gore, especially if she picks an inflammatory VP.

What R1 said.

ABC.

"Hillary Clinton leads rival Bernie Sanders by 25 points nationally ahead of Sunday's final Democratic debate and the all-important Iowa caucuses, according to the latest results from the new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll."

I've always supported Hillary, but I don't like rubbing shoulders with mouth-foamers about Sanders, and can feel it pushing me more into his camp.

Hillary's going down . . . and I don't mean on Huma.

Bernie Sanders is not a practical choice. There is very little difference in his impulses and those of people like Trump and other GOP guys. They bitch, complain, rant and rave. They come up with unworkable suffestions a high school civics teacher would deride, and they have absolutel no demonstrated ability to get anything done in a political arena. None. What they do NOT know about foreign policy could fill the the internet...which is limitless....The events of the past eight years have demonstrated we need intelligent experienced people who know how to work effectively to SOLVE PROBLEMS not rant and rave.You don't have to be in love with Hillary. And no one is 100 % perfect. But her attributes outway her flaws by a billion miles. In the environment in which we have to live, after having experienced the consequences of the Bush policies, she is the best possible choice. I cannot afford to live through a state of war between Bernie and the rest of the world because it is more important for him to be right than to be efffective. I can't afford dor the Koch Brothers and their billions to pillory Bernie and have him meltdown. Which he will. He has already demonstrated a thin skin. I believe Bernie is unsuited to the PResidency. I want someone who knows WTF they're doing on Day 1. Period.

Hillary is the only Democrat in the country who isn't afraid to mix it up with The Donald.

She and Bill have been eating Republicans for breakfast their entire life. We need a fighter, not a pacifist. Hillary is Faye Dunaway in Mommie Dearest.

Debbie Wasserman Shultz, what the heck? DNC needs smart leadership.

Having the Dem debate on Sunday night while "Finding Bigfoot" is also showing, is simply wrong.

It's also NFL playoff time. Many people are focused on that. A non-weekend debate would be much better. Trying to protect Hillary by limiting exposure was a stupid decision.

Hillary is attacking out of fear, rage, misguided and surprisingly naked confusion, that is not good.

Oh, shut up r238. Go j/o to BS's rape fantasy & bombing Palestine.

Hillary is thisclose to a public meltdown, will it be tonight??

R236 Bill and Hillary Clinton have been "eating Republicans for breakfast" only in the sense that their triangulation has stolen GOP ideas and pushed the GOP to the extreme right. NAFTA, TPP, DOMA, the Omnibus Crime Bill that created the modern prison industrial complex, welfare "reform" which has thrown many poor women deeper into poverty, the War in Iraq, the Patriot Act, the War in Libya, the repeal of New Deal era banking regulations which led to the creation of the "too big to fail" banks, blocking the SEC from regulating shady financial instruments on Wall Street, etc. With Democrats like the Clintons in office, who needs the Republicans?

HILLARY

VOTE for HILLARY... GO Hillary! Once again, Hillary proving she is Presidential and the only one qualified to be POTUS!

HILLARY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any other year, Martin O'Malley might have been a viable candidate.

If you can find no other reason to vote for Hillary, picture Bernie daily, ranting and complaining for the next 4 years. He'll be drooling in his soup at state dinners, and his bright white false teeth will eventually find their way to the carpet during a State of the Union address. Personally, the prospect of listening to him bitch for four years would drive me nuts. The media will make him a joke and Congress will ignore him as if we had no President at all. He keeps saying he wants a revolution, but he is doing nothing to help down ticket candidates and without members of Congress supporting him, he has nothing, and he can accomplish nothing. If he had the ability to work well with others we would have seen it by now.

Come on people. Close your eyes and imagine Bernie is your nominee. Your President. Dear Gawd. Nooooo!

Stand behind Hillary, or you're going to get Trump.

This is a good piece. I wish more people had access to it.

Exactly R247. Vote for Sanders is a Vote for Trump

What has Sanders been DOING in congress all these years? Vegetating?

He's been waiting his turn.

Hillary has to stop looking down when she's halfway through a scripted thought, she's much better when she's conversing in a natural manner.

If she doesn't tone it down, there will never be a Hillary/Bernie ticket. That's what you really want, America.

From the article at r248:

[quote]And nevermind that Sanders never held a job before the age of forty, and had an illegitimate child, and apparently collected unemployment benefits improperly, and that he admits to having once written and published rape fantasy essay in the Vermont Freeman.

He wrote his rape fantasy at age 30...not as a college stoner.

What was HRC doing at the same age? Investigating watergate.

[quote]For that matter, few voters are aware that of all the various people Sanders worked with in congress over the years, none of them – not even his closest ideological allies like Elizabeth Warren or Barney Frank or Sherrod Brown – have shown any interest in supporting his campaign. In fact, [bold]most of those who know Sanders best have endorsed Clinton instead. [/bold]Even fewer are aware that almost none of the legislation Bernie has introduced in congress over the decades has found any support at all. In 2013 he offered a health care plan which was considered such a punchline, not a single of his senate allies would touch it. Now he refuses to clarify whether or not the supposed “2016 health care plan” he keeps generically referring to is the same as his failed 2013 treatise or not. Yet no one has yet called him out on any of the above on any level.

Why vote Republican-lite when you can have the real thing?

R245 seriously?! don't think so bro other than being handsome no substance at all and no way is he Presidential material!

Yeah, O'Malley said nothing to interest me in this last debate.

The trouble with Bernie A moralizing scold, but for the left

I think Hillary is bone tired r252. She's trying to put on a tough guy air but you can see the brain cells aren't firing. When she looks down it's to try to focus her mind, find a quiet place to mentally formulate a response.

Trump on the other hand is visually engaged, deeply engaged almost super energized with and from his audiences. I think Hillary is beginning to lose some of that confidence she's worked so hard to develop.

It's being chipped slowly, very slowly and coupled with exhaustion, her health situation (which no one really knows about), the enormous pressure knowing this election 'is her last kick at the can' to establish a Clinton dynasty, the first female U.S. President, etc, I think she's starting to panic.

As another poster said, it's 2008 again.

Trump? Are you seriously saying he has ever given a thoughtful, considered answer to a question?

How is it that absolutely none of you pro-Hillary folks have a response to the fact that Sanders consistently polls better against Republicans in the general election than she does?

They do R262. They say that Sanders hasn't been vetted, as if Hillary has photos of Bernie strangling babies while he pees on an American flag, but she's just too polite to use them against him while she fights for her political career.

I suspect O'Malley looks great in a jockstrap.

This country will never, Thank GOD, elect a Jew into the White House.

R263 right on! So sick of these Shillarybots taking a break from doing lines in the bathrooms at BKHQ and manically posting anti-Bernie threads everywhere. What a tired old horse they hitched their rides to...again!

r267, I'm on your side, but people need to link those polls more. If there's threads about them, I never see them. But I am Bernie fan newbie, he won the debate and won me over. Does anyone have a Bernie forum to recommend? And I agree with you r263, people know he's a Jew (*gasp*) and a socialist (*gasp*) and he's still surging. Obama proved the impossible if possible and the America electorate aren't stupid as we're told.

I meant r262

Agreed, r61. Many blacks will never forgive Hillacunt's reprehensible race baiting and dog whistles "white working class voters" (her words!) During the 2008 primary.

What is your point, r146? There are many of us who DO NOT WANT A JEW IN THE WHITE HOUSE! Do you have a problem with that?

The problem is anti-Semitism

R269, er, remind me what Obama has done for African Americans? Can't think of a damn thing personally.

R270 is the new datalounge. There are some fun people here still but R270 is the majority. Just no fun and full of hate.

IF Bernie gets in, we will never be able to disengage America from Israel. We will be sending Israel billions and billions of dollars every year until the Arabs nuke it and then we get into a very big war.

Oh, that. Maybe you have a point. I'll let others debate it, I don't know enough about him.

But wouldn't neoliberal Hillary be pro-Israel too?

[quote]Many blacks will never forgive Hillacunt's reprehensible race baiting and dog whistles "white working class voters" (her words!) During the 2008 primary.

Then why is she getting 96% of their vote when polled, dumbfuck?

Bernie will never be president. America will never become the great Soviet Union his little devout minions wish it to be.

R270 my mom & dad said the same and so are a lot of people so get over it and he's a commie...I didn't say that but people are saying that the older generation R271 NOT

O'Malley tries too hard. He also has annoying dental problems that affect his speech.

I can't stand the idea of Bernie getting the nomination. Therein lies our doom. When he stands out there screaming and ranting about "a revolution" he would dismantle everything that has gone before because in his Purist's heart his way is better and he will expose us to a complete Right Wing take over. We'd be toast. With Healthcare, for example, if he moves against the ACA, as he wants to, because he was to give it to individual states to run(!) he will open an opportunity for the GOP to dismantle it completely which is what they want. But of course, he will never get elected and his ego can't deal with that reality. He is too caught up in his "revolution." He's an egomaniac. Delusional, and his supporters are a combination of people just like him and Republicans who are exploiting this oppoertunity.

He wants the states to run ACA?

YES. 282. He calls it Medicare for all, but it isn't he wants to dismantle the ACA, give $$$ to the states, and let the states run a version of it which, he insists will cover "everyone". The actual costs of such a plan are astronomical much more than the federal government is currently spending. He has been floating versions of his healthcare plans since 2013, and none of his Senate colleagues or the House for that matter, or anyone for that matter, would endorse, co-sponsor or otherwise get involved. He did it to usurp power from Obama, the man he tried to challenge in 2012, but he was rightly ignored. He has often positioned himself as a more liberal than thou White Hope over the past 7 years. He was endorsed by Cornel West, another Social Democratic, "I hate Obama who is a sell out!" Lunatic.

[quote] I've always supported Hillary, but I don't like rubbing shoulders with mouth-foamers about Sanders, and can feel it pushing me more into his camp.

R233, how old are you? That's something a rebelious teenager would do, not a mature and responsible voter.

Hillary should be able to put Sanders away. Never try to out left a leftist.

HRC should foget about big rallies until her momentum returns. She needs to do regular TV interviews and town halls in Iowa, NH, and SC for now. She also needs to hit hard at Sanders record.

What would the reaction be if, on Election Night, Bernie Sanders gets elected the next and 45th president of the United States?

I'm not referring to the reactions only at Datalounge.com. Can you imagine what they would like in Corporate News Media like ABC, CBS, CNBC, CNN, Fox Business, Fox News, and MSNBC?

Perhaps it would be something like this…

His haid blowed up good! His haid blowed up real good!

I can assure you the Powers that Be will never allow Bernie to win the presidency. I'm serious as a heart attack. Not gonna happen. You will wake up the day after and you will have a Republican President. As sure as the sun rises in the East and sets in the West. I'm not engaging in wishful thinking when I say that Bernie will never be President.

He knows it too. But he doesn't care. I've met old style radicals like him before. They don't care what harm they might cause or whether they are assuring a major setback that will have dire consequences. They'd rather blow up the world to get their point across than compromise their "Principles." What you're seeing here is the "unity of opposites." as Lenin described it.

The Extreme Right wants to dismantle our government so they can privatize it and establish a corporate police state. The Extreme Left, which is represented by Bernie, trust me on this, would rather see our corrupt" capitalist system collapse so they can establish a People's Government where everything is free and all the evil rich people are taxed into submission. Both Extremes want the same thing, to dismantle our government, and revise our economic system .

When he first started he never beieved he had a chance. He was just trying to make a point. But as he gained attention he began to believe he could do it. He mistook his popularity for political affirmation. He now believes he can win no matter what the numbers say.

Does anyone REALLY want to see the Clintons as the First Family again?

R288,

What would your reaction be if Bernie Sanders won the 2016 United States presidential election to get elected the next and 45th president of the United States?

Trump won't be the nominee - he's fading and that stunt with Palin didn't help him. She will be focused on Trump and then Cruz or Rubio are going to take her down.

Not gonna happen, and anyone who believes it will happen is delusional. Seriously. He will never be President.

OK I'll play your game. First lets consider the difficulty President Obama had trying to get anything rational passed by Congress. Healthcare, Gun Control, Environmental Policies, women, minority and Gay interest, etc. Things that directly affect lives like an increase in the minimum wage, Tax reform. Income inequality etc. Obama had a lot of support and had to fight and scrap his way to get anything done and then had to compromise to get even a portion of his agenda passed.

You watched Mitch Mcconnell and others say their goal was to see him fail. WTF do you think they will do with Bernie after they finish laughing at him? There will be a state of seige between him and Congress and it will be a shouting match that will go on for four years or until they cart Bernie out on a gurney. Nothing will get done. His proposals are not only unworkable and impraactical, they would blow up the deficit. The numbers are wrong. Wall Street" He's a child if he thinks he can wave a wand and get Wall Street reform and Tax reform through Congress. And count on it, this Congress is the one he will have to deal with. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell. They will fry his ass.

He will literally dismantle every fucking thing we have worked for, starting with healthcare. How stupid is he right now, to still be talking about HIS healthcare plan when we have the ACA, and we need to use it as a foundation to build on and improve, not dismantle it? But he's the Purist. His plan, that no one would support four years ago, is still bad today, and would cost more than ACA. Costs that would be passed on to us.

He could not gain support to get anything done when he was a Senator. He was one of those Purists who threw the good out with the bad. No one would go along with his proposals all these years. Nothing will change He will be isolated, and will just run around the country yelling and complaining and scolding until all of us will tire of his haranguing and his ineptness.

He calls for a revolution, but if you want to change things start with your own back yard. Get a state legislature that isn't controlled by the GOP, or a governor who isn't, and abolish gerrymandered Congressional districts so that real people are represented, and then you can reform the things that need to be reformed. Bernie is Misdirecting people. His misdirection will lead us all over a cliff if we dont get smart fast.

Paranoia will destroy ya, R288.

Trump might have a plurality of delegates, but I'm not convinced he'll have anywhere near a clear majority. As I understand it, party rules require that delegates are bound for the first round. After that, I'd say they'll rally around which ever establishment candidate has the strongest November poll numbers.

Bernie went on a tirade last night and attacked the Human Rights Campaign and Planned Parenthood. He's become unhinged. HRC and PP sent out Tweets expressing their disappointment in Bernie.

Howard Dean warned everybody that Bernie has a bad reputation in Vermont because he doesn't get along with anyone who doesn't kiss his ass.

Has dementia ever occurred to anyone?

Don't folks here see HTC as enabling the T agenda?

Typo: HRC (Human Rights Campaign)

Fucking off and get bashed fag at r291. Trump is fading?!?!?! The poll today from NH shows him surging. Fuck off.

Well I heard this morning that while Hillary still leads in Iowa, the reason the race is tightening is because men who are likely caucus participants are now moving towards Bernie. No wonder he felt OK with slamming Planned Parenthood and the Human Rights campaign. He doesn't give a fuckabout Gays or women. He figures he won't get them so he is focusing his cheap shots to attract men. And there are a lot of men who have a huge problem with the idea of any woman being President. Hillary needs to start messaging better to men.

Some of you people upthread are the ones that are extremists. I'm for Bernie, expect Hillary to win, and I'm thrilled with either. And yes, I'd love to see the Clintons back in the White House. Peace and prosperity again!

[quote]Don't folks here see HRC as enabling the T agenda?

Yes, they are.

Ok, I just looked up the Bernie Sanders quote saying "HRC and Planned Parenthood are part of the establishment"

Well, if he is closely following the fight against the regressive trans ideology, I'd say yes, they are part of the establishment...but I don't think he is.

It's a very weird comment, disappointing. He should stick to economic issues - that is where is is winning, and can unite, not divide.

Two new polls released today both show Hillary with a 9-point lead over Sanders in Iowa.

If Hillary wins Iowa, it's all over for Sanders.

R289 YES she "HILLARY" is the only one that is Presidential and she will be the first female POTUS!

He could do well in NH, R303

R305 and that's all!

Not true regarding polls showing her beyond margin of error in Iowa, he still has a very strong chance to beat her there as well. She'll rage and then fall into a four day faint, bye Felicia!

Im not wasting my vote on Bernie. The novelty of his campaign has worn thin on me. I am 100% for Hillary primary and general.

I'm fat and I strongly support members of my demographic group. Therefore, Hillary has my vote. Besides " Feel the bern" sounds too much like a workout and that just isn't my thing.

R299 writes,

"No wonder he [Bernie Sanders] felt OK with slamming Planned Parenthood and the Human Rights campaign. He doesn't give a fuckabout Gays or women. "

Not true.

Bernie Sanders has a better rating from Human Rights Campaign than Hillary Clinton.

Also, HRC endorsed Republican U.S. Sen. Susan Collins of Maine in 2008, instead of Democratic challenger Tom Allen, and in 2014. And HRC endorsed Joe Lieberman in the 2006 Connecticut U.S. Senate election, after he lost his bid for re-nomination by the Democratic primary voters and ran for an independent, instead of the Democratic nominee Ned Lamont.

HRC earned getting "slammed" a long time ago.

Does anyone have information of Planned Parenthood on this same matter?

R299 writes,

"And there are a lot of men who have a huge problem with the idea of any woman being President. "

______________________________

Well, in the Democratic Party there are people who want the nominee from the party to be a left-winger. So, the self-identified Democrats, who participate in the caucuses and primaries, would not have a problem nominating Massachusetts U.S. Sen. Elizabeth Warren.

If the special snowflake Bern-bots really think this is the year America elects a wizened, dyspeptic, elderly Jewish Socialist with a Bronx accent. they are insane.

Their name calling and witch burning attacks on the 11th MOST Liberal member of the Senate (2001-2009) Hillary Clinton are insane. I wish I could collect a nickel for every Facebook friend who will soon post "I'll hold my nose and vote for Hillary!" for us, as if there's any sort of choice between HRC and whichever numbskull the GOP nominates. I'd retire on all the nickels!

"elderly Jewish Socialist with a Bronx accent"

It's a BROOKLYN accent!!!

Well who expected a black president, or that Donald Trump would be a serious contender? Maybe this is the year for a Brooklyn born elderly socialist Jew.

[quote]Has dementia ever occurred to anyone?

Absolutely, I have thought something was off with Hillary since she had the stroke, I mean fell, or whatever lie she told.

What about Donald Trump - he is the one saying the crazy things.

America would elect Hitler or Bin Laden's rotting corpse into office before Hillary.

Datalounge skews older so I am not surprised people here think Hillary will win. She will NOT. The facts are: Bernie has higher crowd turnout than Hillary. Bernie has higher individual small donations than Hillary. Bernie has higher support among millenials & independents than Hillary. Bernie has higher favorability ratings than Hillary. Bernie has higher support among the liberal media which are slowly starting to back him. Bernie has been shown to be more likely to beat the Republican in the general than Hillary. The writing is on the wall for Hillary. She has the apparatus to beat him, but Bernie has the people, and is the rockstar of the Democratic race. Most men in this country will NEVER vote a woman into office, especially a woman who has outaccomplished them in life by every feasible measure. Sad but it is the truth. Hillary excites no one, and she greatly overestimated how much the American people like her.

I know for a fact that many Republican males secretly voted Clinton & Obama in the booth despite how much they claim to hate them. A woman can never become president in the United States. This is a country that is all about alpha-male losers choosing which bro they would rather have a beer with. Look at Donald Trump. Machismo and bullying are what half this country thinks embodies strength and good leadership.

It's going to be Trump vs. Democrat.

In the 2008 early primaries, the Republicans didn't think some black nobody called Barack Hussein Obama could defeat Hillary and all her money, so they didn't bother with Obama too much. When Obama won the nomination, then they were after him night and day, because that's who they had to beat. If Bernie really starts pulling away, they will attack.

Personalities aside, will the nominee work with a Republican Congress to pass bills? Hillary yes, Bernie no.

Can the candidate interact successfully with leaders in foreign countries on economic issues and ISIS? Bernie's going to be pro-Israel. A lot of Americans are fed up with Netanyahu's contemptuous attitude towards Obama and the U.S. in general. Being too clingy with Israel is going to make working with semi-hostile, pragmatist allies to hold back ISIS even harder. The Israelis keep voting in hard right leaders that don't consider the bigger picture, they want the needs of Israel to be U.S.'s one interest in the Middle East. We have to work with anybody that will help us fight ISIS. Including people Israel doesn't like.

We have to work with Iran too if we can. We have to try to not lose the agreements forged by Obama. Israel was dead set against agreements with Iran and wanted to bomb them. On our dime. How does that benefit the U.S.' interests, not Israel's? Obama cut the apron strings there, and they hate him for it. We can't run U.S. foreign policy by Netanyahu's decrees. We're past that. The world has changed.

The EU's immigration mess will be an ongoing issue. Bernie doesn't have the foreign policy experience of Hillary, or even a well thought out platform. Obama did. The nuclear treaty he signed with Iran was something he's worked towards since he was the junior Senator from Illinois. Look it up, he's always been fascinated by nuclear policy issues. It took him seven years to do this, and he knew from the start where he was going. That's how hard it is to get stuff past a Republican Congress.

Bernie doesn't have the policy wonk ability Bill, Hill and Obama had. He's an ideas man, not a specific details man.

It's not only about what Democrat personality you like best. Can a Democratic Socialist beat a big business Republican? No, all Republicans are pro-business, but not all Democrats are pro-socialist. And crossover votes win the race. How many crossover Socialists are there? You're giving up blue dog Democrats and moderate Republicans, as well as Republicans that are scared of Trump, in favor of a blue state minority of people that aren't troubled by Socialism. And that's after a year of Republicans on Fox News and everywhere else calling Bernie a Commie. Low information voters won't even consider him no matter what Trump does. He's not the "safer alternative" to them, he's a dirty Commie coming to take their money.

Remember "sure thing" Ben Carson? A couple weeks of hard vetting and he was done. Hillary's dirty laundry is out there and she already took the hit. Bernie's is yet to come.

Biden/Warren bet on it.

Warren doesn't want to get involved in this, she's said she's against running again and again. I think she thinks a lot of mud is going to get slung and she doesn't want her reputation damaged.

Part of it also has to do with deadlines to file in various state's primaries. It's too late already in some states, you'd end up with a brokered convention, because you couldn't get the necessary number of delegates. That's why Biden had to make his decision when he did. He says now he won't run and I believe him. His people checked out the odds thoroughly and he said, "there wasn't a way forward," politics-speak for "I couldn't win, so I wouldn't run just to end up losing."

There seems to be alot of implication that Biden has some sort of backroom deal with Warren to undercut Hillary & Bernie for office.

By whom, R323? And why would candidates that received their share of delegates by popular vote give them up to people that didn't even bother running themselves and weren't vetted by the party or the press at all?

Newest CNN poll shows Hillary falling behind Bernie is Iowa, she really is imploding, horrible appearance earlier in tv as well. She sounded like she was under water, must be horrible for her to see it all crumbling apart.

Hillary's collapse is almost complete.

LOL! I love ya freepers! Keep pretending to be Bernie supporters and worrying about Hillz while the GOP is imploding.

Hillary needs some stupid and simple slogan. Cut out the intellectual stuff, dumb it down.

Watching Hillary slo-mo her way on CNN was like seeing my Aunt Agnes droll at Thanksgiving after a few whiskey sours. She's getting older by the second, poor dear.

Bernie Sanders? Isn't he the fella who invented Kentucky Fried Chicken?

We must stop H*llary and Tr*mp by voting for SANDERS

Shove it up your filthy cunt, R265.

Mmmmmmmm ..... whiskey sours! Make mine a double!

Hill's biggest strength is scaring voters into thinking that her opponent's nomination will mean a certain Republican victory. She is not nearly as well liked as she was eight years ago. Assuming Trump maintains a commanding lead for the Republican nomination in New Hampshire, look for the Independents there to vote in the Democratic primary against her. If Trump manages to win Iowa, I could see her losing New Hampshire by 20 points.

R329 writes,

"Watching Hillary slo-mo her way on CNN was like seeing my Aunt Agnes droll at Thanksgiving after a few whiskey sours. She's getting older by the second, poor dear. "

—Anonymous

__________________________________________

And her Datalounge.com devotees are getting lots older.

Who know this site had so many Moderate Republicans Who Think They're Liberal Democrats?

[R329] writes,

"Watching Hillary slo-mo her way on CNN was like seeing my Aunt Agnes droll at Thanksgiving after a few whiskey sours. She's getting older by the second, poor dear. "

—Anonymous

______________________________ - ____________

And her Datalounge.com devotees are getting lots older.

Who knew this site had so many Moderate Republicans Who Think They're Liberal Democrats?

—Anonymous

R314 don't think so...a jew socialist as POTUS!?

[quote]Watching Hillary slo-mo her way on CNN was like seeing my Aunt Agnes droll at Thanksgiving after a few whiskey sours. She's getting older by the second, poor dear.

I think she looks pretty good. Much better then when she was SOS.

She is still younger than Sanders, so let's not play the age card, dear.

Hmm.

She'll go with one of the Castro twins as Veep. Count on it. As for Bernie... do you really think he appeals to anybody but Old Lefties and college kids who appear to be unaware that he couldn't get his "revolution" through Congress to save his life.

R339,

You wouldn't mind Hillary Clinton getting Corporatist policies - which were Republican friendly when Howard Baker and Bob Dole were majority leaders - in the U.S. Senate?

Go join the Republican Party - officially!

"Feel the Bern" takes on a whole new meaning in light of his rape fantasies.

"Feel the Burn" is more like it.

R318, just wait until BS gets asked hard questions, and the American people find out more about him...like the fact that he didn't have a real job before age 40.

He's an old, straight, white man who is pro-war and pro-NRA.

The long profile at R339 doesn't make Castro sound very exciting at all.

At least Bernie left his rapey fantasy on paper unlike a certain presidential spouse.

So Bernie went to the USSR on his honeymoon? Yeah, that'll play well with Middle America.

Basic bitch.

Again Democratic voters

You can vote to STOP Trump & the GOP, but you cannot do that by voting Bernie Sanders. That will not stop the GOP in 2016

Not true, r347. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread or another thread, if it's Trump and Bernie then Bloomberg will enter the race as an Independent. That will split the vote between Trump and Hillary. If neither candidate gets 50% or more of the vote, then the election is determined by the House of Representatives.

Therefore, if Bernie and Trump win the primaries then Bloomberg will become the next POTUS.

A vote for Bernie = Republican POTUS.

R348 that is what Hillary is saying. A vote for Bernie is a vote for the GOP to win., Only she can stop the GOP in the election. That is why you cannot vote Bernie Sanders in primaries.

Oh r317, can the idiotic hyperbole. You sound demented.

r349, thank you for clarifying for me. I bought a new Pax vaporizer today and tested it out before posting.

VOTE FOR HILLARY! She will bring us small, incremental change!

VOTE FOR HILLARY! She's not a socialist!

VOTE FOR HILLARY! Unlike Bernie, she understands that the Republicans will control Congress and nothing much will get done.

VOTE FOR HILLARY! Bernie is too old, unlike the youthful Hillary.

VOTE FOR HILLARY! Bernie's health is failing, but Hillary is the picture of perfect health (except for that blood clot thing).

Lots of silliness posted here.

If Bern is elected, he advocates for substantial change, and gets moderate change. That is how it works, usually. Once in a while you get a big fucking deal, like Obamacare, or an Iraqi war, but usually, you just get nudged in one direction or another. DON'T EXPECT THE MOON!

The candidates are not kings, they can only do so much. And - if Congress is of the opposing party, expect less.

I like Hillary because we would be lucky to return to the peace and prosperity of the (Bill) Clinton years. It is something to hope for.

I dislike the Republicans because they have been fact checked as telling far more falsehoods than the Dems; I don't like their policies; and because if any of them get elected, they'd hire the same people who performed so badly under George W. Bush. Remember 9-11; the Iraq war over non-existent weapons of mass destruction; and the economic collapse?

The choice is very simple and clear to me,

Whoa, serious health issues with that cough, very fragile old lady right there!!

Anyone want to respond to R262?

r356 = Bernie Bro, obsessed with reading and bumping old election threads. SAD!

Your walking corpse of a candidate will never be president. Even the Jews don't like him, lol.

She's been working on a draft as compromise candidate for quite a while. I know many of the readers ear won't accept that, but it sure seems that way.

I read several posts before I realized it was from 2016. If this is how she still feels, maybe she'll throw herself into the race at the last minute.

R358 her documentary should be revealing. Think about it... in her mind, she would have been releasing that just as she kicked off her re-election campaign.

Desperate Housewives! Isn't it fab!

She is correct