With all the renewed barebacking due to PrEP, How long do you think it will be until a new deadly STD arises?

Are they taking bets in Vegas, OP?

Some are betting on a form of super syphilis.

HIV is going to mutate. Preppers are fucking fools.

Don't forget the increasing number of cases of drug resistant gonorrhea.

If I prep I won't give up using condoms

Some people are just too stupid to learn from history.

AIDS II will be spreading like wildfire by 2018, mark my words.

It will never happen to me.

We're already experiencing drug resistant Gonorrhea. I'm positive the same will happen with Syphilis, whose infection rate has skyrocketed.

Don't worry, OP. You won't ever have sex again.

It'll be the one that'll seep through condoms.

[quote]HIV is going to mutate.

HIV has been mutating ever since it was discovered. That's the chief reason why it's been so hard to find effective treatments for it.

Oh please shut up OP. You and your sex negative sallies love to single out sexually active gay men while not saying a word about anyone else. PrEP is another tool in the safe sex toolbox. I'm sorry that you aren't getting any or are just not sexually attractive to others, but your hate is rabid and contributes nothing to the conversation. Be gone.

it's hard to imagine that nothing new is going to come down the pike.

And it will likely affect all of us who are sexually active. The framework of worrying about condoms is yesterday's news. And your own condom/PreP usage or hiv status will not be relevant. The question assumes that the new disease is a direct result of barebacking. The next virus could just as easily be transmitted orally.

The good news is that this next disease isn't necessarily going to be deadly. If something does occur, hopefully its a few years out because medical technology is advancing like crazy and only picking up steam.

PreP may be a factor here but it's not the barebacking that you need to worry about. It's that there's just a whole lot more gay fucking going on.

1) Gay sex is no longer associated with death. 2) Gay men are actually living as gay men at the highest numbers ever--the closet is falling away. Most biologically gay men are now out of the closet, living gay lives and having gay sex. 3) Apps allow gay men to find partners at any time of day.

PreP is just one tiny piece of the puzzle. If they created a pill tomorrow that cured HIV, the underlying issues would still be the same. One might even argue that if something new is coming, the availability of sex as a result of apps is the cause far more so than some of us ditching condoms.

I've heard the Frau Virus is deadly. It begins by killing active brain cells.

R13= barebacking skank!

DataLoung Acquired Inanity Syndrome (DAIS).

R16 = fat ass shut-in

It's just nature, when humans go around swapping fluids every chance they get eventually something will get transmitted.

Aw R18, Hit a nerve did I load boy?

This just popped up online.

Wouldn't super gonorrhoea infect the straights as much as they MSMs?

Yes It would infect everyone as would super syphilis.

From the BBC article in R21:

"The infection is spread by unprotected vaginal, oral and anal sex."

That's a bummer. At least among the ghey, almost no one uses condoms for oral sex.

We'll all be dead by 2025.

Really all it takes is for an existing STD to mutate the right way and Boom!

More likely they will find out years from now that Truvada causes cancer.

R12 - it was hard to find effective treatment but it was finally developed YEARS ago. HIV is not difficult to treat and there are many effective and safe combos out there. Not that its a good idea to get HIV, mind you, but lets stick to cold facts shall we.

[quote]Yes It would infect everyone as would super syphilis.

Yes, but the gay community will be impacted first and worst:

Trend data show rates of syphilis are increasing at an alarming rate (15.1 percent in 2014). While rates have increased among both men and women, men account for more than 90 percent of all primary and secondary syphilis cases. Men who have sex with men (MSM)* account for 83 percent of male cases.

A San Francisco study found a 30 percent instance in STIs among PrEP users after six months—which rose to a 50 percent after one year.

Any peer-reviewed studies out there about cannabis and HIV?

This is one reason the Bible forbids sex outside of marriage. In the old days, STD's could truly kill off the majority of the community, rendering it vulnerable to the Philistines. Remaining chaste and celibate are still the best ways of avoiding STD's and keeping your community strong and vibrant!

Is this Datalounge or Bible Study? Where are the real gay men at?

I would do so many unspeakable things to R31.

The real gay men are on a christian gay men's cruise on an antebellum themed cruise ship.

"HIV is going to mutate. Preppers are fucking fools."

I've been on it 14 months and have not fucked or been fucked without a rubber.

R35 then what's the point of Prep?

[Quote][R35] then what's the point of Prep?

This is the point: In a world of reality, where condoms break, slip off, are discreetly and maliciously removed during the sexual act, Prep offers an additional safety barrier.

Who sold you that stupid ass argument, R37?

I've been on it for a year for accidents and slips ups and an extra bit of protection.

My friend is on it because his partner is POZ.

There are many reasons people get on it. I think sexually active gay men are fools for not being on it or at least talking to their doctor about it.

Thank goodness nobody ever barebacked before PrEP was a thing.

[Quote]Who sold you that stupid ass argument, [R37]?

Oh, like that never happens, r38? Improperly worn condoms can slip off. Old (expired) condoms can break. And yes, there are those bastards who will slip off the condom before ejaculating. That's reality. It happens. And those chances increase among those who have a very active and random sex life.

It's probably happening already. I have heard about strains of gonorrhea, and hepatitis that cannot be cured via medication or antibiotics.

Everyone I know that's on PreP is into barebacking and never was that good at using condoms or practicising safer sex to begin with. But these are younger gay men who have the mentality that they can bareback with anyone or with friends and won't get HIV or other STDs at all, and that if they take PreP that they'll always stay neg for HIV and other STDs.

I do not take it as it's extremely expensive even if you do have insurance, and it's toxic with not so fun short and long term side effects. Plus, I rarely engage in anal sex, and when I do I am a top, use condoms, and do it while I'm in a relationship or partnership with a man. When I've had sex with strangers I do mutual masturbation, some light BDSM as a top, and I get oral sex.

[quote]I have heard about strains of gonorrhea, and hepatitis that cannot be cured via medication or antibiotics.

Hep B is incurable, period.

So the thing about the science of PrEP that's different from bacteria working around antibiotics is that in the latter, the bacteria infection has taken place. In the former, no infection happens at all because Truvada stops it. So, encourage people who are on it to take it. Encourage those who are sexually active and not on it, to consider it.

AND STOP CALLING PEOPLE WHO ARE ON IT FOOLS.

I would never consider doing anything anyone else does as it is completely about me and my universe. Let me write a book about what I do so that you may all follow my example.

R13 Can you "reaction formation"?

I give a gay man who's taking reasonable steps to protect himself from STDs better odds than some fundie hausfrau who's relying solely on her and her husband's purity.

I am hoping never, OP.

I don’t want people to get and sick and die from having sex.

Do you feel differently about that, OP?

We are still trying to conceive, au natural of course.

There's also HPV which can cause anal and oral cancer. Yet few men straight or gay are ever tested for it.

Remember, condoms only work when you actually use them.

We are ALL going to hell in a Birkin bag containing poppers, cialis, and Truvada. The end.

I'm glad I'm an elder and a survivor from the AIDS crisis. Gone are my rapscallion ways, but I certainly have fond memories of all the fun. Now, it seems I will be able to look down upon the next gay plague from a serenely high position as those who have not listened, as those who have not learned, perish.

That's really an admirable goal, Larry Kramer at r53. It seems you got the Aquired Lack of Empathy Disease from the straight world that ignored the plague that happened during your rapscallion years.

Why must anyone think that there is going to be a "new gay plague". It seems kind of homophobic, it's like your saying that gay men deserve to be punished or something. How odd, especially when you're posting with other gay men in a gay environment.

Even when I was young and out, I never wanted to play the field. I wanted to take it slow and get tested before I did anything. As a result, I didn't lose my virginity until my 20s. But I have been in three relationships and I didn't cheat on any of them. I still want to be in a relationship, and I want it to be monogamous and with an out loud and proud gay man, but I can't take any more of the lies or deceit. If there is no trust, there is no relationship. Period. If you aren't ready to give up having sex other men to be with me, then you're the one who's not ready for a relationship.

Or maybe they're not ready for the relationship YOU want, r56. Which is fine. Your way is your way. It's not better. It's just one way.

In the early days of the AIDS crises, gay men like R13 wrote finger wagging articles in gay papers condemning as "sex negative" those who tried to get our community to be more reflective about nonstop, anonymous sex.

History repeats.

And a lot of those articles and a lot of those writers spread a lot of misinformation that did not and could not comprehend a continuum of risk. To Larry Kramer, oral and anal sex were equally risky, condoms did not work at preventing the spread of HIV (he left that one in The Normal Heart revival) and there was NO HOPE for men who had sex drives and a need for fulfillment. A lot of us took those messages in and were never able to give them up.

The only thing that's repeating is that something exists to help people and just like Kramer warning people not to have sex EVEN WITH CONDOMS, now people are trying to tell those of us on Truvada that we are "bad" for protecting ourselves.

Erna/MPC/R49, you're so fat, the AIDS just bounces off of you.

Yes R59 the sex negative accusers were among those spreading false information.

There were a lot of smart people who were able to adjust how they talked about the epidemic and transmission as research went on. But the scolds never ever changed. In a 2004 speech at Cooper Union, Larry Kramer gave a speech called "The Tragedy of Today's Gays" in which he told young gay men that they must never, ever take an unsheathed cock in their mouth ever again. Despite mountains of evidence showing oral sex is not an efficient way to transmit or acquire HIV. He HAD to continue his message equating ALL sexual activity as equally risky.

It's no surprise he would call people on PrEP "cowards". They're heroes for contributing to the knowledge base about HIV prevention. Heroes.

I'm just glad I'm a total top and that I've never fucked anyone without a condom.

R42 Thank you for your post. You seem like a smart person. It takes people like you to reveal just how much education is necessary surrounding PreP. You state as fact that young gay men think "if they take PreP that they'll always stay neg for HIV and other STDs". Aside from a few outliers, close to 100% of all patients on PreP are informed via discussion with their doctor that PreP only protects against HIV. And those on PreP must return to the doctor's office every 12 weeks to renew their prescription and get tested for STI's.

There could be other sexually transmitted infections in the next decade, but it's homophobic to assume this is because of activity inside the gay community.

The biggest change in human sexuality in terms of sheer numbers will not come from the 100-500,000 gay men who are likely to be on PreP by the early 2020's. The biggest change comes from the straight world due to dating apps. Often when we engage in sex shaming of gay men, we think of wild orgies but the reality is that for most, it's the constant stream of sexual partners racked up over years that gay men can attain through occasional hookups and a normal dating life. Straight people are behaving like that now. People on dates often fuck after. And it is easy for straight men to go on one or two dates per week. For those who don't want to settle down, it's easy to see how in a few years, a 25 year old average straight guy can end up in triple digits when it comes to sexual partners. The average guy who considered "getting lucky" once or twice per year by going to bars every weekend can now fuck their brains out like a gay dude from 1975 if they can afford to buy girls dinner.

This is my guess on the difference--Female sexuality has always been shamed and social circles used to be much, much tighter than they are today. Today, women can go on apps, go on dates, and fuck as many men as they want to without gaining a "reputation" inside of their social circle because the men they're fucking are completely unconnected to their friends and family.

[quote]This is my guess on the difference--Female sexuality has always been shamed and social circles used to be much, much tighter than they are today.

We're workin' on that!

Who is paying for the Prepp? I know of no health insurance company that will cover it as a "preventative" and it cost a fortune.

It's covered on my plan R67 and many, many others. I pay a $15 co-pay and that's it.

Here is the bottom line, if the condoms, selective sorting, or abstinence worked... AIDS would have died out in the 80s. Prep is a game changing, whether you want it to be or not, and they will continue to develop new drugs. Maybe a vaccine is coming. Your cries of doom and gloom of the next big STI add nothing but fear and confusion.

[quote]Who is paying for the Prepp? I know of no health insurance company that will cover it as a "preventative" and it cost a fortune.

Mine does. I guess they figure it's cheaper than paying for a lifetime of treatment for HIV/AIDS.

R62 the scolds never changed because AIDS is still spreading 35 years later. There's still no cure and PrEP used by a small portion of the gay population who either have great health insurance or can afford the out of pocket cost is not going to stop the spread on its own.

All evidence of the oral sex not transmitting HIV is meaningless when the next STD is incurable gonorrhea or syphilis, both of which ARE transmitted orally.

Incurable syphilis. You'll all end up like this and we'll LAUGH AT YOU!

It's important that people who are interested talk to their health care provider and if you're uncomfortable talking about your sexuality with your healthcare provider, find another.

My insurance covers PrEP (as a preventative, there is no other use for PrEP, treatment is triple combination therapy, PrEP is two drugs combined). Gilead will also cover monthly co-pays of up to $300 a month. It's important for people to find out for themselves if it's right for them, and whether or not it's feasible in their circumstance. I believe the r67s of this world don't know everything. I recommend finding out for yourself.

r62, it is actually possible to get to zero new HIV infections. It's feasible in our lifetimes. But if the terms of the discussion are going to shift to other issues ("I heard somewhere about incurable gonnorhea, it's just what I heard") then have that discussion. The fact is, people on PrEP get HIV tests and complete std screens every three months. We are more regularly informed of our sexual health than those who are in denial about their own risks and think they're screened for everything when they get a semi-regular physical.

Is PrEP necessary if you're not into anal sex at all?

Great R73, so you are saying you will know 3 months earlier than the rest of us that you have incurable Syph.?

[quote]The fact is, people on PrEP get HIV tests and complete std screens every three months.

No, people on PrEP are supposed to get HIV tests and complete std screens every three months. Just like people with viral infections are supposed to get non-antibiotic treatments. Unfortunately, physicians frequently don't do what they're supposed to.

I don't understand. Is this thread parody?

I only ask because it is well known that 90% of the gay male audience of Datalounge are in their seventies, eighties and older and last had sex (or even thought of it) in the 70s and 80s...

Said Datalounge posters are now frantically and vigilantly opposed to anyone who has sex in this day and age and hysterical about anyone contemplating having sex in this day and age because of the friends they lost to AIDS long ago. This distraught group projection means that none of us are allowed to have sex anymore because we should all live back in the 80s and 90s like good little gays.

So, it must be a parody.

You apparently do not know the definition of the word, "parody."

R67, mine pays for it. And it's a large, nationwide insurer.

R76, my insurer requires an HIV test every 3 months to renew the prescription for Truvada.

Does PrEP cause facial wasting like other AIDS drugs do?

We'll soon find out, R80.

No. The facial wasting is from protease inhibitors. Both drugs in Truvada are NRTIs like AZT.

R82, I think you are wrong there. When AZT was the only medicine, people suffered from facial wasting and fat buildup on their necks.

R32, Datalounge is now the Lonely Hearts Club for Virginal Mother's Boys with Paranoid/Anxiety Disorders.

That's why we see so many "sex is dirty!" posts now. AIDS 2: The Sequel is right around the corner, Grindr is a hotbed of serial killers on the prowl, PReP = DEATH, etc. It's mostly closeted shut-ins with no sexual outlet and no social points of reference, who live for Mother's approval. They're desperate to distance themselves from those "other, dirty fags;" i.e, the sexually active (GASP! Mother!) ones.

I don't think "mother" needs to be capitalized, R84. It is not a proper noun in this sense.

I'm sure R84 has never had the approval of his Mother! lol

All the bathhouse related threads have me thinking it won't be long before something new and nasty pops up...sluts ruin everything.

Indeed R87.

The number of syphilis cases has tripled in Erie County over the last five years. Health Department investigators trace the surge in recent years to men who have sex with other men and typically find their partners through their phones. Syphilis isn’t just a disease, said Erie County Health Commissioner Gale Burstein. It’s an indicator of even worse things. Men who contract syphilis tend to circulate in high-risk sexual networks, meaning they are more likely to be exposed to – and to transmit – other sexually transmitted diseases like HIV, she said.

SUPER AIDS!

Didn't the CDC make up super AIDS?

Prep is still a good idea.

You can have an active and fulfilling sex life, just be smart about it. Use condoms for anal sex. Be honest about your sexual history with partners and demand honesty from them (i.e. actually know your partner(s) beyond a few messages on Grindr). Get screened for STDs frequently. Don't drink alcohol excessively or use drugs that might cause lapses in judgment before sex. And if you're not comfortable or your partner is asking you to do something risky, don't do it.

Are the anti-PrEP people advocating that PrEP just not exist? I'm really confused about their message. Why are you deriding a tool which has already led to a drastic reduction in HIV infections?

There are a lot of Larry Kramers on this thread. And the ones who are shouting warnings about a "super-AIDS" around the corner, I guarantee, are not even sexually active.

By the way, my insurance covers my Truvada prescription 100% (including co-pay) and has it delivered right to my building where it's logged into a system which notifies me that I have delivery and is then handed to me by my lovely doorman. All this happens while you're sitting on your mother's couch in the basement watching a 1987 episode of "The 25,000 Pyramid."

"Syphilis isn’t just a disease, said Erie County Health Commissioner Gale Burstein. It’s an indicator of even worse things. Men who contract syphilis tend to circulate in high-risk sexual networks, meaning they are more likely to be exposed to – and to transmit – other sexually transmitted diseases like HIV, she said."

I would love to see her citations to support that outrageous statement, though I am confident that she made it up and that there is no objective support for it. Men who contract syphilis are sexually active. And it is okay to be sexually active. Gale Burstein should go fuck herself.

[quote] Why are you deriding a tool which has already led to a drastic reduction in HIV infections?

Because people are using it as an excuse to bareback rather than following the manufacturers instructions. Studies have shown that people who are careless about using condoms will most likely be careless about taking their meds. This can lead to a 'super bug'.

Seasons don't fear the Reaper, nor do the sun, the wind or the rain.

It seems like tenofovir is getting less effective. HIV is becoming resistant to tenofovir, particularly in Africa. The assumption that one can bareback on Prep without consequence is completely wrong. It's only a matter of time before AIDS 2.0.

Another vote for super strains of syph, gonorrhea, etc, as creating a devastating pandemic.

The BBC (I think it was) recently reported a gono strain completely resistant to all known antibiotics. PrEp is not the answer to non HIV STI avoidance, as ppl are already think its a green light for condomless sex. It doesnt avoid all the other STIs.

I also just read that the Zika virus can be sexually transmitted. So nature will find some way to develop some germ to infect us.

If you're on PrEP, good for you! Now, do you have condoms? You don't like the "Feel" of them? Tough shit, dearie. I don't care how hot you are, how massive your cock is or how long you can fuck for - if you think PrEP is going to make you and your arse and cock some sort of genital Fort Knox, nuh-huh. How do I know you're clean of other STIs, eh? Wait there whilst I get my blood-testing kit out...

unprotected anal spreads many, many diseases normally not sexually transmitted, such as Hepatitis, etc. As well as being by far the best way to transmit all sexual transmitted ones.

I recall reading about MERSA (the flesh eating bacterica) spreading in WeHo. Isn't that a superbug created by antibiotics?

MRSA was created by the incorrect and overuse of antibiotics.

R103 Thanks for the clarification. Do you think the the incorrect and overuse of PREP could have the same effect on HIV?

Ask the Mexican who tried to stick his dick under the stall of the john at the restroom at the Walmart's men's restroom this morning.

No, because PrEP is a prophylaxis. MRSA happens because we're covered in bacteria inside and out, and when we take antibiotics, it just doesn't hit the bad ones.

Now, if someone is poz and doesn't take the drugs correctly, then yes, that leads to resistance.

It is impossible to have a rational conversation about sexual common sense in the gay community. Bacteria and viruses aren't our worst enemy, it's the inability to even consider moderation as anything except judgment, fun spoiler or defect. Oh, well... but we're all supposed to be brothers come fundraising time.

That's not completely correct, R105. If PrEP is taken inconsistently, it could lead to a superbug. If you have enough of the drug in your system to fight most of the viruses and only the 'bad' ones manage to survive, then that could lead to a superbub.

[quote]That's not completely correct, [R105]. If PrEP is taken inconsistently, it could lead to a superbug. If you have enough of the drug in your system to fight most of the viruses and only the 'bad' ones manage to survive, then that could lead to a superbub.

They actually did studies that found that PrEP still worked even with less-than-ideal adherence. Not as well, but still better than placebo. I think as few as two doses a week were 70% effective.

PrEP is for those bottoms who slut around. They care more about a big cock in their ass than safety.

I'm glad there's at least something easy for them to protect themselves to some degree. The condom model of protection is not particularly attractive to them

I will pray for all of you in church.

Except you.

[quote]They actually did studies that found that PrEP still worked even with less-than-ideal adherence. Not as well, but still better than placebo. I think as few as two doses a week were 70% effective.

Unfortunately, we're now seeing strains of the virus that are resistant to tenofir, one of the components of Truvada. Following your PrEP protocol to the letter may not do you much good if you encounter a sexual partner with one of these strains.

I think the resistant strain is mostly in Africa.

Also, there's a reason that PrEP is a combo pill.

[quote]I think the resistant strain is mostly in Africa.

So was HIV 45 years ago.

Not sure? I'm guessing it's happening right now with how there are men who are being infected with drug resistant strains of common STIs, and you have men who are on PREP and barebacking and they wind up infected with HIV anyway despite taking the medication.

It's probably already happening...

No YOU have men who are having that happen to them, r115.

I give it 15 years.

Maybe 10 years, or 15?

Swapping fluids with strangers is never a good idea.

It's just being friendly!