Why are the NRA and anti-gun control activists allowed to trample all over our Constitution?

What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is unclear to you?

This is what happens when you use complex grammar. Sad we're willing to sacrifice lives to an oddly placed comma.

What part of the words "well regulated" is unclear to you, R1?

Are you seriously that dense?

I liked Hillary's suggestion that ethical, intelligent gun owners create an organization separate from the wing nuts of the NRA. And she reminded her audience that George HW Bush had left the NRA in disgust.

[quote]What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is unclear to you?

Read this. It assumes you have the comprehension skills of an adult, which is probably a stretch for you.

You still did not answer my question, R5. What I quoted was directly from the Second Amendment. I'm not going to wade through a fucking biography. Idiot.

I sugest, then, you read the ENTIRE second amendment and not merely the part that serves your interests, R6. The Second Amendment was written to protect then existing state militias from federal control. It was not intended, and was certainly not interpreted in earlier Supreme Court decisions as giving carte blanche to gun ownership at every level of society without restriction, and for guns that serve no purpose other than to cause mass executions of human beings. The US Government, and the Supreme Court had no problem imposing strict gun control laws, until the lobbyists for the NRA got their hands on Washington.

bravo, r7. shut the fuck up, r1/r6. YOU are exactly what's wrong with this country.

Wait a minute. Am I in the Twilight Zone here. I'm what's wrong with this country because I asked what was well regulated about letting anyone have unfettered access to assault weapons and ammunition?

We need to fucking regulate like the Amendment states, so more people don't have to die.

And R8, dear, go please go fuck yourself. I'd be willing to bet no one else will.

The amendment says the right of "the people" to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, not the right of "well-regulated militias."

You draw militias from armed citizens.

Explain to me R8, what's so wrong with me that I want to regulate guns? I don't even know what R7 is trying to say, or to whom it is speaking.

Let me put it more clearly for you all.

I AM ON THE SIDE FOR GUN CONTROL. I WANT TO REGULATE GUNS LIKE THE SECOND AMENDMENT STATES.

Maybe this will get through to some of your thick heads. I give up.

Okay, I see some misidentifying of posts here. R7 and R8. Sorry to both of you. We are on the same side here. It's all R1's fault. IT is what's wrong with the country.

It's just semantics, and each side of this debate has their own interpretation. But I think the founding fathers knew enough to not give a gun to to Looney Billy Who Lives By The Creek and was just not right in the head. And I'm sure they took away Old Man Martin's rifle after he mistook the widow Smith for a bear and shot her dead. I think we have to look at the intent of the 2nd amendment and not the individual words.

Well, yes, I rather doubt the founding fathers favored arming lunatics intent on killing people. But back then I'm pretty sure every householder who could afford one owned a firearm for hunting game and for self-protection. The cops were not a 911 call away.

This is why bills of rights are problematic. We're supposed to rely on a centuries-old document to address contemporary issues?

I'm glad my country doesn't have one. Sure we don't have marriage equality, but at least we don't have decisions made by judges interpreting an out of date document in increasingly ridiculous ways.

At least use the proper text of the second amendment and not the text of an early draft. The ratified text is

[quote]A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

I agree that a lack of foresight about the modernization of weapons makes the amendment problematic. If we interpret the text strictly, no weapons should be prohibited, meaning anyone ought to be able to own missiles and the like. If people are willing to put up with restricting access to those kinds of armaments, then anyone who objects to restrictions on guns is being hypocritical.

The key lies in defining the word arms which is short for armaments and not just firearms.

The NRA SUCKS so do REPUBLICANS!

OP, even the NRA wasn't what it is now

Some cite the 2d amendment to protect the people from their government. The fact is that the government is so militarized now that individuals have no chance against the government. Even individual police departments are unbeatable. It’s a stupid, futile rationale.

I’m all for eliminating the 2d Amendment if we can’t interpret it reasonably. And it seems like we can’t.

The Russians apparently funneled money through the NRA to politicians it likes. Think about that!

As painful as this is, dear OP - the Supreme Court does not agree with the Liberal position on this issue, and has not agreed with the Liberal position for the most part, for the last 100 years.

This is something we should consider. This is divisive, and we should consider what is a more Constitutionally sound approach to achieving a safer society, absent the lunatic notions of the idiot currently occupying the President’s House.

Yes I know it’s usually called the White House. But, given his “I’m a Nationalist” it seems particularly an affront and more racist than ever to use the popular name.

Americans like to play cowboys and Indians or cowboys and Mexicans...fuckers need their guns.

Anyone who owns a gun is mentally ill. You have to WANT to use it in order to have it. You live in fear. You're a pussy. You believe someday you might have to kill someone. Who thinks like that? A paranoid, or crazy person that's who.

R20

Tell that to the Vietnamese, or soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq (and god knows where else) about superior firepower versus guerrilla warfare.

R24

You must live in a doorman secured building and be surrounded by bodyguards, or just fucking stupid.

R24 So, for your sweeping generalizations do you use a standard broom or do you go all out and use the 48” wide broom? By ‘everyone’ you’re including all military, all law enforcement, and hunters, all the marshalls on aircraft right?

Just not a pussy who needs to hid behind a gun because he's too afraid to learn to fight. Besides, you know the chances of you getting to be a hero someday are like 0% right?

Fuck yourselves with your guns if you love them so much.

Few of us who were well trained in weapons use them as sex toys. Ever clean lubricant out of a barrel? I haven’t and I don’t intend to. It’s already enough work. Look on Amazon for what a real cleaning kit entails and believe you me, we’re not talking Spray’n’Wipe.

I don’t own any weapons, despite having held multiple certifications in the military. My partner never learned and I wouldn’t have a weapon in the house with someone who would not go through weapons safety training. Given the ludicous number of weapons in this country and the piteous mewlings of the NRA of near bankruptcy, it’s apparant gun owners don’t take safety seriously. If we did, weapons safety classes, gun safes and trigger locks would be top sellers.

I know a guy who runs a hell of class in Nevada for multiple certifications, taught military style but with a lot more fun (the lack of live ammo fire over your head, for example). These classes meet law enforcement, security organization and government requirements - and they’re not cheap.

Before you dismiss weapons for self-defense and call anyone else a pussy, let me ask you: have you ever been raped? Don’t think you can easily defeat a rapist with a gun. I was lucky that I did, and I did have military training that kicked in. But it was too close. I did overpower him and take his gun away and escape.

The likelihood of that isn’t high - and it wouldn’t happen today. I was 21 then. Now, I have learned some painful lessons. The most important is that my skin is not made of kevlar. Bullets will not bounce off me.

Maybe you think that makes me a pussy. But in my life, I’ve survived being shot at during terrorist attacks, another terrorist bombing, a couple of riots (they were civilized at any rate), getting mugged in front of the White House at 3 am and the attempted rape.

Were I living alone and not in a condo or townhouse, I would have a gun. I would also redo my certification back to military level. Were I in a townhouse or condo, I would not own a gun because it is almost certain the trajectory will go through a party will and hit an innocent victim, and based on statistics - a child. The better choices are non-lethal weapons lilke mace, pepper spray and stun guns.

I’m not disagreeing with you, and the fetishization of guns is depraved. But I was my own hero, once.

cranks and fools. that is why. once upon a time cranks and fools didn't run this country, but that changed. we need to drive all these cunts out of power. every single motherfucking one of them.

Not sure why somebody bumped this old troll bait thread, but anyone who claims that we're being run by cranks and trolls today but weren't in the past needs to read a little history. Presidents like Theodore Roosevelt were fully mentally ill, presidents like Woodrow Wilson and Andrew Jackson were thoroughly evil, senators were beating each other almost to death on the senate floor, it was a Wild West nation for a long time.

Just because things seemed to be kind of calm starting during FDR's terms through to Watergate and up to Nixon doesn't mean that's the way it always was. That period of calm was almost an exception. We've been degenerating back to chaos ever since.

well I'm not sure about Woodrow and Teddy and Andrew, but any cunt who thinks the NRA is anything but a disease these days is certainly mentally ill, and probably doomed to shoot himself in the head sooner or later.

American gun nuts are so brainwashed and stupid. I once briefly dated a guy who turned out to be a conspiracy theorist nut job ammosexual, and he said something like, “When we’re out in the streets fighting the man...” blah blah blah.

I thought to myself, when the FUCK are regular Americans going to be fighting the US military forces in American streets?? When is this uprising EVER going to happen? And how the fuck do these gun nuts think their AR-15s are going to match up against fucking TANKS?

Then there’s the self defense idea. Where do these pussies live that they’re constantly in fear of being shot at? Public schools?

we're in a damn crouch. We Democrats. We progressives. Fuck that noise. Everyone stop pretending people actually like gun nuts and republicans and rich cunts. nobody likes these people. Start demanding that people vote like that.

Gun lovers and right wingers are evil, stupid people.

yup, and you are actually in the majority r35, but we have gotten into this stupid mindset that says Republicans are the guys in the majority.

[quote]People who overgeneralize and stereotype are evil, stupid people.

Fixed.

Wrong, R37. r35 has it right.

do you ever overgeneralize R37? do you ever stereotype? be honest.

[quote] I agree that a lack of foresight about the modernization of weapons makes the amendment problematic.

Yep, and when we have gotten rid of the 2nd Amendment we can move upwards.

The second amendment protects the first.

no it doesn't, r41. it's pretty much bullshit, and never means what gun nuts think it means.

Well criminals don't follow gun laws. The police will not be there on time. It's you and the guy with a bat, knife or a gun is heading towards you or your love one.

no r43, it is you shooting yourself or your kid in the head. that is the actual reality of gun nut logic. or your kid shooting up a school cause REASONS!

Funny thing about the "militia" clause. That never made sense to me either until one evening I was watching a documentary about the devastation in Florida after some hurricane which included views of a neighborhood cut-off by blocked roads and no communications. The people there were shown pulling together with armed patrols to deter looters. And then it all fell into place.

That's the militia. Citizens protecting life and property in the absence of regular civil authority. The Koreans abandoned by the LAPD during the riots were another example. Also the individual armed homeowner against the burglar.

It's neither left ring nor right wing.

R44 yeah keep thinking like that when your grinder date turn bad punching you in the face til you loose consciousness