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‘Gone with the Wind’ should go the way of the Confederate flag

The icon film is next to be attacked by the PC crowd.

On a similar topic, I saw a news segment where a man was warning people that these PC people will not stop at the confederate flag but will then move on to statues, books, movies, etc., and will not stop until they thoroughly whitewash history, solely for the purpose of not offending a minority.

Well, he was right. On last night's news they had a segment where a mayor wants to remove statues and dig up corpses and move them elsewhere. Now they are going to attack movies. All that's left is the books and then perhaps art.

People, read my words and understand them. History is offensive. The entire history of man has include people hurting, abusing, enslaving and killing other people. We simply can not cleanse history of these actions. Removing flags, statues and other items will not stop violence and definitely will not stop mentally ill people from hurting or killing people.

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by Anonymousreply 128August 19, 2022 11:03 PM

Well, it's a lot easier than going after the guns.

"We have to do something, this is something, therefore we should do it", to quote Yes Minister.

by Anonymousreply 1June 25, 2015 5:48 PM

Drama Queen. The confederate battle flag does not belong in any office of any state or local government. Anything beyond that is covered by the First Amendment.

by Anonymousreply 2June 25, 2015 5:48 PM

R2, The confederate battle flag is a part of history and should be included in a historical context. It itself is not directly linked to racism but like all symbols can be turned into a symbol of racism.

by Anonymousreply 3June 25, 2015 5:53 PM

Keep it out of government offices. It should not be used to represent a state. If I were in SC or MS, I would want it removed. Put it in a museum as a relic of a disgraced past if you like. But it has no place in modern society, any more than the Nazi flag does in modern Germany.

by Anonymousreply 4June 25, 2015 5:59 PM

[quote]Keep it out of government offices. It should not be used to represent a state. If I were in SC or MS, I would want it removed. Put it in a museum as a relic of a disgraced past if you like. But it has no place in modern society, any more than the Nazi flag does in modern Germany.

[bold]test[/bold]

by Anonymousreply 5June 25, 2015 6:00 PM

R4, The confederate flag is a part of Southern history and this can and should be allowed to fly in State buildings and capitals. It is not a symbol of racism. The entire civil war was not fought over slaves. Most of the confederates soldiers who lost their lives did not own slaves nor were fighting for the right to own slaves. They were fighting what they viewed to be corrupt Northerners trying to intimidate and harass them.

Modern rednecks and hillbillies may use the confederate flag as a symbol of racism today but that's beside the point.

The confederate flag is nowhere near the level of the Nazi flag. Stop be so fucking overdramatic.

by Anonymousreply 6June 25, 2015 6:04 PM

[quote]It is not a symbol of racism.

No, it's just a symbol of a nation which explicitly declared its support of the right to own other people in its own Constitution.

by Anonymousreply 7June 25, 2015 6:10 PM

The Confederate flag at SC is not in "context." It is flying on the lawn saying "we're proud of our traitor ancestors who held blacks as slaves and started a war against the United States of America!"

Its message is contemporary and political.

by Anonymousreply 8June 25, 2015 6:13 PM

I am a liberal who is getting increasingly irritated with liberals.

by Anonymousreply 9June 25, 2015 6:15 PM

Bear in mind that the states which incorporated it into their state flags did so in the early 1960's as a way to say "fuck you" to the people in the civil rights movement. Nothing racist about it at all.

by Anonymousreply 10June 25, 2015 6:19 PM

They want to tear down Confederate monuments so there will be room for more Holocaust memorials.

by Anonymousreply 11June 25, 2015 6:24 PM

I think the rebel flag should have been banned the moment I found out what it meant when I was a child because it's basically the Nazi symbol and I'm a gay white male, but Gone With the Wind shows the comeuppance the south received after relying on slave labor for so long. Their lives were destroyed and many would say rightfully so because of karma.

Gone With The Wind is a historical classic and a great teaching tool. I see no reason to ban it. If anything, go after Birth of a Nation, but again, all it does is show how screwed up those people were and why we can never let things like that happen again.

What's next Blazing Saddles? I thought that movie was funny as a child but only because I didn't realize how horribly racist and homophobic it was. I was disgusted trying to watch it as an adult.

by Anonymousreply 12June 25, 2015 6:34 PM

R12, Stop with the bull shit Nazi connection.

by Anonymousreply 13June 25, 2015 6:49 PM

OP You and the man from the news segment you mention are so full of shit it is a wonder your breath doesn't stink.

Go sell your brand of crazy somewhere else, chicken little!

by Anonymousreply 14June 25, 2015 6:55 PM

R13 Please explain how it's BS. Nazi symbol is about hatred for Jews. Rebel flag is about hatred for black people. They're both about separatism and believing you are better than someone else. I didn't read this anywhere, it's just common sense. I'm not Jewish or black so I don't really have a personal stake other than knowing it's wrong to hate someone because of something they have no control over, you know, like being gay?

by Anonymousreply 15June 25, 2015 7:02 PM

[quote]The entire civil war was not fought over slaves. Most of the confederates soldiers who lost their lives did not own slaves nor were fighting for the right to own slaves. They were fighting what they viewed to be corrupt Northerners trying to intimidate and harass them.

In their declarations of secession from the Union, some Southern states expressly mentioned slavery as a reason for their departure.

South Carolina wrote in its declaration of secession:

[quote]"... an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations ..." South Carolina wrote in its declaration.

The state of Mississippi aligned itself with slavery right off the top of its declaration:

[quote]"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery -- the greatest material interest of the world."

Georgia named slavery in the second sentence of its declaration:

[quote]"The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery."

by Anonymousreply 16June 25, 2015 7:10 PM

R15, Because you are using the Nazis as your archetype of evil and are likewise linking this flag to your concept of "ultimate evil". There really is no comparison. The rebel flag, a.k.a. Dixie flag or Southern cross, gained in popularity after WWII where it had no racist connotations. The racist connotations of the rebel flag come mostly from rednecks and hillbillies but people like you want to turn the entire thing into a symbol of evil. It's just a flag, a piece of cloth.

by Anonymousreply 17June 25, 2015 7:12 PM

[quote][R2], The confederate battle flag is a part of history and should be included in a historical context. It itself is not directly linked to racism but like all symbols can be turned into a symbol of racism.

Many Southerners claiming it represents their 'Southern heritage' are being ignorant of the flag's true history. For instance, though it was the battle flag flown by several Confederate Army Units, it was not the official flag of the Confederacy. At least, not entirely. The Confederacy went through three official flags during the course of the war: 'Stars and Bars,' 'Stainless Banner,' 'Blood-Stained Banner'(See link below).

After the Civil War ended, the battle flag turned up here and there only occasionally -- at events to commemorate fallen soldiers and adopted by the Ku Klux Klan. But the flag didn't explode into prominence until the mid-20th century, during the struggle for civil rights for black Americans. After the Supreme Court ruled in Brown v. Board of Education that segregated schools were unconstitutional, many Southern capitols began flying it in protest. Thus, the prominent public display of the flag (if not the popularity of the flag itself, though partly that too) doesn't commemorate the Civil War or the Confederacy; it was the emblem of the 'massive resistance' movement of the 1950s and 1960s in which white Southern state government sought to defy the federal government's effort to force desegregation, black enfranchisement and formal legal and political equality for African-Americans in the South.

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by Anonymousreply 18June 25, 2015 7:14 PM

R16, Thank you for posting that. I think I'm being painted in a corner here and people are misunderstanding my purpose. We can't whitewash history because it offends some people. In fact, on the wiki page for the confederate flag it shows a survey that only a minority of people are offended by the flag. So we have the "tyranny of the minority" here in this situation. The majority of people have no reaction when seeing it.

History should not be fucked with, should not be altered, should not be whitewashed. It should be allowed to stand in all it's ugly grandeur.

by Anonymousreply 19June 25, 2015 7:15 PM

So when are we going to change the name of Washington DC, a city named in honor of a slave-owner? What about the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial? Shall we dynamite the images of Washington and Jefferson off of Mt. Rushmore too? Funny how people want to censor a work of fiction but are seemingly content to maintain all these very real and conspicuous memorials to real slave owners.

by Anonymousreply 20June 25, 2015 7:17 PM

R13

I agree with you, and sadly this whole flag issue is just the beginning of opening another door to hate. I guess the intro. of tolerance in the past couple of years in public schools, on different venues from books, religion, etc...is not going to apply on this topic.. No one saw this one coming i'm sure. In reality, It should have been destroyed soon after the civil war. However on the Nazi issue,, Germans pay for that even today through the agreement that was signed in September 1952. West Germany paid Israel a sum of 3 billion marks. with further claims since like 2009, maybe instead of a flag debate, we should consider doing this instead.

by Anonymousreply 21June 25, 2015 7:19 PM

It's a well-made film, but it does romanticize the antebellum South:

[quote]There was a land of Cavaliers and Cotton Fields called the Old South... Here in this pretty world Gallantry took its last bow... Here was the last ever to be seen of Knights and their Ladies Fair, of Master and of Slave... Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered... A Civilization gone with the wind...

I always smirk at the 'dream remembered.' I'm sure it was a nightmare that most slaves wanted to forget.

The film (and book) also propagates the myth of the 'Lost Cause,' that the war was not about slavery but about economics and state rights. ( Yes, the economics of slavery and the rights of states to maintain slavery.) The Lost Cause also calls the conflict 'The War of Northern Aggression' and portrays Confederate generals/soldiers as noble, pious, gentlemanly figures, while demonizing Union generals/soldiers -- all of which Gone with the Wind does.

That said, I don't think it should be banned., for I don't condone art censorship. Still, I hate the "Lost Cause" mythology. I also hate that up to about five years ago, the group to be depicted least favorably in films about that era were Union soldiers. THat is fvcked up in my opinion.

by Anonymousreply 22June 25, 2015 7:20 PM

It was already attacked and discussed decades ago. It's a slanted movie with a limited view of the era, but not on par with "Birth of a Nation" as a racist touchstone.

If it's on the shelf next to "Twelve Years a Slave" , you get a fuller idea of the era.

Hooo-Weee, You're just itchin' fer a fight, ain't cha?

by Anonymousreply 23June 25, 2015 7:22 PM

In the end, it was a white flag Confederates waved, cause they didn't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no nation!

by Anonymousreply 24June 25, 2015 7:39 PM

[quote]portrays Confederate generals/soldiers as noble, pious, gentlemanly figures, while demonizing Union generals/soldiers -- all of which Gone with the Wind does.

Hogwash. The only "real man" in the movie is the Rhett Butler and he is scarcely a true Confederate. As the male hero of the film, he betrays the Confederacy for personal gain. He only joins the Confederate army to save face once the cause is truly lost. He colludes with Union officers after the war. When we first meet him, Rhett offends a roomful of Confederate officers by telling them their cause is hopeless and they are arrogant to think otherwise. Most of the Confederate men in GWTW are bumblers and fools albeit well-dressed and well mannered ones. Ashley is a weak dreamer, Scarlett's first two husbands are naive idiots, and her father is a drunken Irishman.

by Anonymousreply 25June 25, 2015 7:39 PM

R21

I like how you think, your compass is logic. However Think about it even further. Do you think it's possible this removal of the confederate flag, perhaps is just a way to compensate rather than with money? If you think about it in a broader perspective, in essence it would most likely create even more hate. God forbid African Americans should get a hefty check for anything..

by Anonymousreply 26June 25, 2015 7:44 PM

Scarlett was also a drunken Irishman if you remember correctly.

by Anonymousreply 27June 25, 2015 7:45 PM

R26

Oh absolutely. There is no win-win for anybody, just a passed over issue from generations ago unto this one. Like I also.mentioned, It should have been dealt with soon after the war.

by Anonymousreply 28June 25, 2015 7:49 PM

The thing about Gone With The Wind is that I think Mammy was one of the smartest characters in the story. I can't remember if this scene was in the movie, but in the book Scarlett misbehaved. Mammy knew she didn't have the ability to tell Mrs. Ohara, so when the family gathered for prayer, Mammy started praying really loudly about how Scarlett had misbehaved. Mammy was no dummy.

by Anonymousreply 29June 25, 2015 7:52 PM

[quote]I agree with you, and sadly this whole flag issue is just the beginning of opening another door to hate. I guess the intro. of tolerance in the past couple of years in public schools, on different venues from books, religion, etc...is not going to apply on this topic.. No one saw this one coming i'm sure. In reality, It should have been destroyed soon after the civil war. ..r21

Anyone who didn't see this coming knows nothing about the South. This has been a contentious issue for decades.

by Anonymousreply 30June 25, 2015 7:54 PM

R29

lol! I remember that... that movie was awesome. IDK..The movie in some ways does take a awkward situation (decades later of course) to broach in a movie.. Just another sad reality in the world we live in I guess. It would be silly to remove it from history.

by Anonymousreply 31June 25, 2015 7:56 PM

R17 Sorry, you are entitled to your opinion, but your argument is not convincing to me.

Nazis forced Jews into labor and death camps because they were different.

Slaveowners forced blacks into labor against their will and also killed and tortured slaves if they fought back or disobeyed also because they were different and slavers saw themselves as superior.

The rebel flag is a symbol of slavery and racism, exactly like the Nazi symbol, just for the Jewish race instead of the African American race. There really is no difference to me. One "evil" is not really worse in my opinion. They are both evil.

You can try to exaggerate the Nazis' misdeeds as "ultimate evil" but slaveowners did basically the exact same thing. If you don't think slavery is evil, my opinion is it's shocking, bordering on mental illness, that anyone would try to ever defend slavery as anything less than evil and I'm not even black or Jewish. It's about human dignity. I don't think anyone should be treated as inhumanely as slaves or concentration camp prisoners.

by Anonymousreply 32June 25, 2015 7:57 PM

OP is a Feldman...from Buffalo.

by Anonymousreply 33June 25, 2015 8:00 PM

I'm pretty sure the woman who played Mammy (Hattie McDaniel) won Best Supporting Actress for that role. She was the first African American to win an Oscar.

by Anonymousreply 34June 25, 2015 8:01 PM

R19 It doesn't matter how many people an injustice affects. If you think like that, gays and especially trans people would never have any rights at all because we are just a minority so discrimination against us doesn't really affect that many people overall so it doesn't matter, is that what you are saying? The majority should be able to do whatever it wants.

Some people may be saying this, but I certainly am not saying the flag should be erased from history altogether. Keep it in museums and textbooks but you can keep history alive in the proper channels without giving racism and slavery credence by flying the flag at the capitol.

by Anonymousreply 35June 25, 2015 8:03 PM

The government does not sponsor or endorse GWTW. People do not project GWTW on their garage doors 24/7 when black people move into their neighborhoods.

Grow up.

by Anonymousreply 36June 25, 2015 8:03 PM

[quote]Oh absolutely. There is no win-win for anybody, just a passed over issue from generations ago unto this one. Like I also.mentioned, It should have been dealt with soon after the war.

What should have been "dealt with?" the Movie? The Flag? The issue about the flag isn't as old as the Civil War as has been mentioned above. It mostly dates to the end of Jim Crow and Segregation (though the KKK was using it before that -can you guess why,) and was picked up explicitly as a symbol of Northern oppression against the Southern "way of life." In harsher terms, the North wanted to end Jim Crow, the south didn't, so we started waving the flag as a symbol of "heritage" and "States Rights," (which in the south is still used to mean the right to fuck over black people, most recently regarding voting.)

So if a person is saying that this is some kind of legitimate "Confederate" concern he is wrong - it's a bunch of more or less "modern" people using it as symbolism - racist symbolism.

r.e. the movie - in order to ban it, you'd have to pass a law, which will NEVER happen, so if you personally are worried the the "PC Crowd" whoever the fuck that might be are going to take your Scarlett away, you're having vapors - Scarlett never had vapors, only the whimpy chicks did, what does that tell you?

by Anonymousreply 37June 25, 2015 8:05 PM

R26, There is not an African American alive today that is owed reparation money from slavery.

by Anonymousreply 38June 25, 2015 8:06 PM

[quote] It doesn't matter how many people an injustice affects. If you think like that, gays and especially trans people would never have any rights at all because we are just a minority so discrimination against us doesn't really affect that many people overall so it doesn't matter, is that what you are saying? The majority should be able to do whatever it wants.

Oh Jesus can we have nothing that isn't about "trans" people these days?

by Anonymousreply 39June 25, 2015 8:07 PM

R30

Well...yes and no.. I am inclined to agree to disagree with you. I knew it, but respectfully; the passing of it to be taken seriously has always never been seriously considered. And outside of the south, most have no clue to the animosity on the topic. I get that it symbolizes southern pride and heritage, as well as a remembrance of Confederate soldiers who died in battle. But as racism and segregation gripped the nation in the century following, it just became a divisive and violent emblem of the Ku Klux Klan and white supremacist groups. That's why I strongly feel it should have been dealt with then.

by Anonymousreply 40June 25, 2015 8:12 PM

R39 I'm not trans, it's just an example of an incredibly small minority (less than 1% of people I believe) that are highly discriminated against. The point is, it doesn't matter how big the minority is, a person is a person is a person.

I won't assume you are a lawyer or know much about the law at all, but this is exactly why we have three branches of government and judicial review. Unchecked power leads to horrible injustice. It may not matter to you if it doesn't affect you but not everyone is such an extreme narcissist.

How about taking a moment to be grateful you don't have to put up with the shit trans people do? You might see it as a choice but they don't.

by Anonymousreply 41June 25, 2015 8:13 PM

Why do liberals want to ban everything?

by Anonymousreply 42June 25, 2015 8:16 PM

R41, Shut the fuck up and take your shit elsewhere.

by Anonymousreply 43June 25, 2015 8:16 PM

[quote]Well...yes and no.. I am inclined to agree to disagree with you. I knew it, but respectfully; the passing of it to be taken seriously has always never been seriously considered. And outside of the south, most have no clue to the animosity on the topic. I get that it symbolizes southern pride and heritage, as well as a remembrance of Confederate soldiers who died in battle. But as racism and segregation gripped the nation in the century following, it just became a divisive and violent emblem of the Ku Klux Klan and white supremacist groups. That's why I strongly feel it should have been dealt with then.

Well yes and yes. I don't know what part of the South you were raised in but in my part there were no homilies about "remembrance" of Confederate dead, it was a fuck you to the people pushing their laws on us. That's the only "pride" and "heritage" we ever heard about. People started screaming "heritage" to JUSTIFY it's use.

I agree, it's explicitly a symbol of racism, racism is the only "heritage" it'e ever represented.

by Anonymousreply 44June 25, 2015 8:20 PM

R38

Lol..Thats exactly what today's Germany feels as well. And yet...

by Anonymousreply 45June 25, 2015 8:22 PM

[quote]How about taking a moment to be grateful you don't have to put up with the shit trans people do? You might see it as a choice but they don't.

How about taking a moment to realize this has not one fucking thing to do with "trans" anything, and frankly a bunch of us are sick of taking about it.

by Anonymousreply 46June 25, 2015 8:24 PM

In case you haven't been in the South, the only reason to put up a Confederate flag is to flaunt what a proud redneck racist you are.

by Anonymousreply 47June 25, 2015 8:25 PM

R45, Yes, but that's wrong. There's considerable evidence that the U.S. conspired to over-inflate "atrocities". Israel is just committing extortion.

by Anonymousreply 48June 25, 2015 8:27 PM

R42 Not ban everything, just things that are harmful to others. Feel free to smoke and kill yourself, but your second hand smoke affects others people. Do it in your own home or car that's your right just not in enclosed public spaces where nonsmokers can't get away from it.

Why is logic and compromise so difficult? Why is there such all or nothing thinking? How are you completely unable to see another point of view other than your own?

by Anonymousreply 49June 25, 2015 8:27 PM

[quote]Not ban everything, just things that are harmful to others. Feel free to smoke and kill yourself, but your second hand smoke affects others people. Do it in your own home or car that's your right just not in enclosed public spaces where nonsmokers can't get away from it.

I'm amused he seems to think "conservatives" don't want to ban smoking in public.

by Anonymousreply 50June 25, 2015 8:29 PM

So stop talking about it R46. It was a valid example/analogy. That's it. You are blowing it up into something way more than it needs to be. If you are sick of talking about gay, trans, and discrimination issues it's probably not the best idea to visit this web site.

by Anonymousreply 51June 25, 2015 8:30 PM

R44 R47 Yes I know.. Not now meaning our place and time, but after the war ended, historically this was the reasoning.

by Anonymousreply 52June 25, 2015 8:31 PM

[quote]r.e. the movie - in order to ban it, you'd have to pass a law, which will NEVER happen, so if you personally are worried the the "PC Crowd" whoever the fuck that might be are going to take your Scarlett away, you're having vapors

Tell that to "Song of the South". People can get movies censored and banned without a law.

by Anonymousreply 53June 25, 2015 8:36 PM

The movie really bothers black people. They don't want to look back and "see how things were".

by Anonymousreply 54June 25, 2015 8:38 PM

R54, Good for them. Then they shouldn't watch it. I'm fucking sick to death of people thinking that just because they are offended by something then nobody else should be allowed to see it. I fucking hate censorship.

by Anonymousreply 55June 25, 2015 8:40 PM

No one forces black people to watch the movie though, R54. Flying the flag at the capitol is shoving it in their faces. If they work at or near the capitol or have to go there for any reason they can't get away from it.

by Anonymousreply 56June 25, 2015 8:40 PM

R54

Maybe because they don't need to be reminded that there :just another nigger to you". DUh......

by Anonymousreply 57June 25, 2015 8:41 PM

[quote]Tell that to "Song of the South". People can get movies censored and banned without a law.

Wasn't banned, people just stopped watching it, plus if you really want to, you CAN find it. You are just one google away from your very own copy.

You can still buy Mein Kampf, The Communist Manifesto, and Mao's Little Red Book too, three thinks that people probably want to ban far more than Uncle Remus.

If you don't like Apple's move, open your own app store and sell the flag to your heart's content.

by Anonymousreply 58June 25, 2015 8:42 PM

The day will come. That'll be hard for me. I love Scarlett's clothes paired w VL's face in that movie. When I was 10 and first saw it at one of those theaters that re screens old movies, I thought Rhett was hot.

by Anonymousreply 59June 25, 2015 8:43 PM

R56

Im not black and would hate to see it everyday it I was.. Agree...fuckin painful.

by Anonymousreply 60June 25, 2015 8:44 PM

[quote]So stop talking about it [R46]. It was a valid example/analogy. That's it. You are blowing it up into something way more than it needs to be. If you are sick of talking about gay, trans, and discrimination issues it's probably not the best idea to visit this web site.

So a gay man shouldn't visit this website if he doesn't want to talk about Trans crap? Nice try to pin the gay issue to the trans one, perfect example. Start all the trans threads you want, I promise not to look, they have nothing to do with this topic.

by Anonymousreply 61June 25, 2015 8:45 PM

Wait, are we still discussing OP's "Gone with the wind" going away. Were trans in the movie as well? Hummmmm interesting. I like where this thread is heading..contiue

by Anonymousreply 62June 25, 2015 8:50 PM

Prissy was Transitioning - her birth name was Fred.

by Anonymousreply 63June 25, 2015 8:51 PM

[quote]Wait, are we still discussing OP's "Gone with the wind" going away. Were trans in the movie as well?

Did you think Belle Watling was really a woman? Scarlett hated her because "Belle" was a man trying to dodge the draft. Simpleton Melanie believed "Belle" was a real woman and therefore took her money to help the soldiers.

Belle Watling was a trans.

by Anonymousreply 64June 25, 2015 8:53 PM

R63 So Fred didn't get the part as Scarlett?

by Anonymousreply 65June 25, 2015 8:55 PM

[quote]So Fred didn't get the part as Scarlett?

Transphobia.

by Anonymousreply 66June 25, 2015 8:58 PM

R64

She was a trans who wanted to be more then just considered poor white trans..

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 67June 25, 2015 9:07 PM

R61 Trans people are a discriminated-against minority just like black people and gay people. This thread is about racism and discrimination against black people on an lgbt web site so it was perfectly appropriate. I'm not obsessed with trans issues, I don't even know enough about them to debate them, just sympathetic to discrimination of any kind. The comment about trans people was one line 20 something posts ago. I'm sorry if analogies are so offensive to you, but you are the one derailing the thread continuing to bring it up.

Feel free to keep talking about how much you hate talking about trans people without realizing the irony, but it's boring me so I'm done responding to it.

by Anonymousreply 68June 25, 2015 9:13 PM

R68

Well, fiddle lee dee..

by Anonymousreply 69June 25, 2015 9:17 PM

Whoever thinks that the Confederate battle flag is a symbol of white southerner's hatred for black slaves is insane. White upper class southerners LOVED their house slaves like family. Granted, that is small comfort for being owned and told when to go and where to go every minute of your life, but that doesn't change the fact that house slaves were more like poor relations indebted to their rich cousins. Field workers were not a part of that "family circle." Now, were there any J O O S who were treated warmly by upper class Nazis as if they were family? Did they refer to the men as "Uncle"? Did they share an occasional libation with them in the pantry? No. Nazis hated all J O O S and wanted them dead. Slave owners wanted their servants to reproduce as fruitfully as possible for obvious reasons. I am not saying that anyone would want to be a house slave. It was a bad thing any way you slice it. BUT, it is not analogous to the Nazi-J O O situation therefore the two flags do not bear the same degree of hatred. Ban the damn flag from government property and let it die on the vine just like the once popular Mammy doll, lawn jockeys and Rastus eating his watermelon statuettes once seen in every Georgian's backyard. Leave GWTW alone.

by Anonymousreply 70June 25, 2015 9:47 PM

R70..BRAhahahahahaaaa!!! Do you do stand up too? Id love to catch your act.

by Anonymousreply 71June 25, 2015 9:49 PM

"Why do liberals want to ban everything?"

Why are you so stupid? Wall-Mart removes product for one reason only; because they think it is good for their business. Disney withholds movies for one reason only; because they think it is good for business. Why would conservatives object to businesses being free to make their own decisions without government interference? That is Conservative 101.

Come back when liberals actively want the government to "ban" something. Until then shut up and learn the meaning of the fucking word.

by Anonymousreply 72June 25, 2015 9:52 PM

R72 Spit the spew - spit spit spit!!!

by Anonymousreply 73June 25, 2015 9:55 PM

Me encantan los monos, Ellos se encargan de todo el pelo en sus cuerpos. Hable acerca de cualquier cosa que usted quiere, deje los monos fuera de este hilo ok?

by Anonymousreply 74June 25, 2015 10:02 PM

These pretzelsheads are making me thirsty..

by Anonymousreply 75June 25, 2015 10:05 PM

[quote]This thread is about racism and discrimination against black people on [italic]an lgbt web site[/italic] so it was perfectly appropriate.

Actually, DL is a gay site, not an LGBT site.

by Anonymousreply 76June 25, 2015 10:35 PM

The confederate flag does not belong on government property. And banning the confederate flag is not censoring history. Children will continue to learn about the civil war. That is like saying banning the swastika means you are censoring WW 2 history. Complete BS. And lastly, if people are concerned about showing southern pride, fly the real flags of the southern states or fly around biscuits, sweet tea, or fried chicken. The civil war and the confederacy was only a couple of years. If your heritage is wrapped up in one event or a couple of years, then you have nothing to be proud of. It just demonstrates how limited and boring your heritage is.

by Anonymousreply 77June 28, 2015 8:56 PM

I am your Southern brother and native to the soil,

Fighting for more tax repeal for those who deal in oil,

And when my power's threatened, I wheeze through my catarrh,

Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star!

Hurrah! Hurrah! For Southern Rights Hurrah!

I represent the Lone Star State, I'm not from Canada!

by Anonymousreply 78June 28, 2015 9:05 PM

"The confederate flag is a part of Southern history and this can and should be allowed to fly in State buildings and capitals."

The Nazi flag is a part of German history.....should they be flying it in Germany?

by Anonymousreply 79June 28, 2015 9:41 PM

"Why do liberals want to ban everything?"

It wasn't liberals who tried to ban gay marriage

by Anonymousreply 80June 28, 2015 9:43 PM

The flag is a symbol of hate.

The book is simply a work of fiction, same as Huckleberry Finn.

by Anonymousreply 81June 28, 2015 9:44 PM

Stop, Mammy, don't tell me any more.

by Anonymousreply 82June 28, 2015 9:52 PM

Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn....

by Anonymousreply 83June 28, 2015 10:55 PM

"PC crowd". This is what bigots say when they get called out on their bigotry. They think people should just sit back and take their hate silently. Fuck that.

by Anonymousreply 84June 28, 2015 10:58 PM

The Victim Cultures want to replace GWTW with John Jakes' Ukrainian Jewish interpretation of the same era, "North and South II."

The book, GWTW was very popular with the Nazis. Of course, the British and French liked it too. Most places had M Mitchell fans.

Only one group disliked it...

by Anonymousreply 85June 28, 2015 11:04 PM

Considering that GWTW took place primarily during the Civil War, the use of the confederate flag, of course, is entirely appropriate. Slavery aside, the confederate flag is the traitor flag. If the Confederacy had one, these United States would have been destroyed. I say, tell those in the South that they can fly the Confederate flag if they like, but then they must remove the American flag. They've got to chose one or the other. They are not compatible.

by Anonymousreply 86June 28, 2015 11:07 PM

[quote]The Victim Cultures want to replace GWTW with John Jakes' Ukrainian Jewish interpretation of the same era, "North and South II." The book, GWTW was very popular with the Nazis. Of course, the British and French liked it too. Most places had M Mitchell fans. Only one group disliked it...

You mean the group portrayed as simple minded cattle? How unreasonable.

GWTW might have had some historical value if it wasn't a complete fantasy of the Ante-Bellum South. In any event, it's just another historical artifact of the Jim Crow South.

Please, no one wants to "replace" it with anything. It's already fading into the mists.

by Anonymousreply 87June 28, 2015 11:08 PM

I am black. Do let me say that to me flying the confederate flag is a sign of treason. When the south lost the war and signed the treaty. They agreed to come back into the union and swear allegiance to it That means the union flag. Not the confederate one. We don't consider Jefferson Davis a former US president. So the flag had no place flying over state buildings. If the south wants to hon or the flag, then do it privately. Enjoy yourself.

As for GWTW. It is a cartoon. Lots of overacting and over done southern accents. Funny as hell. And I would not negate the work of Hattie McDonald and Butterfly McQueen. These are the roles they had to play, so that is what they did.

by Anonymousreply 88June 29, 2015 12:53 AM

Lou Lumenick, the fucktard who wrote this, is a right-wing nut. Per standard Murdoch reasoning, he's only doing this as a "you take my toys - the confederate flag, then you don't get to keep yours - Nyah, Nyah, Nyah!

by Anonymousreply 89June 29, 2015 1:14 AM

R88: Agreed. The confederate flag is the US traitor flag. I don't know why we are so exclusively focused on slavery. The confederate flag is much more than just that.

by Anonymousreply 90June 29, 2015 1:14 AM

The performances of Vivien Leogh and Hattie McDaniel in this movie are brilliant. The others haven't aged as well, but those two are timeless.

by Anonymousreply 91June 29, 2015 1:15 AM

Just saw the movie recently --unpopular opinion - but I thought Hattie gave a good performance, but I don't think it is much more than above average. I did not see the character elevated much above the stereotype. Sure she was wise and not afraid to confront Scarlet, but that is part of the wise blustery mammy mold.

The one thing that really stuck out in my mind is how negative the portrayal was of any blacks are not aligned with the O'Hara family. Post-war there are quick throw away shots of free blacks and they are shown to be shallow, empty-headed dandies who are as corrupt as the Yankees. The movie is well made, and I don't think it should be banned, but on this viewing , I did understand the criticism of it.

by Anonymousreply 92June 29, 2015 2:06 AM

Political Correctness is really out of control.

by Anonymousreply 93June 29, 2015 2:44 AM

"Political Correctness is really out of control."

Said the Republican who thinks the world will end if gay people get married

by Anonymousreply 94June 29, 2015 2:50 AM

First the straw-man is created (banning Gone With The Wind) and then it's used to flail away at supposed "poliitical correctness." Go back to free republic.

by Anonymousreply 95June 29, 2015 2:59 AM

R92: those people you refer to were in the movie briefly in order to exemplify Carpetbaggers and Scallywags during the Reconstruction Period (as Mammy mentions). They were meant as historical reference points. Not actual full drawn characters.

by Anonymousreply 96June 29, 2015 3:35 AM

In defense of "GWTW": I first saw it when I was in my early teens, and had already covered the Civil War in American History class. Even though I adored the film I never felt any sympathy for the arrogant white slave-owning southerners as a class, but for the first time I understood why they got so attached to so many indefensible positions.

It's a piece of film history and a useful historical document, something that American can use to do what it needs to do - analyze the history of slavery and racism. And this from someone who'd happily shit on the Confederate flag before setting fire to it, as we can't learn anything from flags.

by Anonymousreply 97June 29, 2015 3:12 PM

Totally missing from GWTW were poor subsistence white farmers and day laborers whose lives were desperate because the planters could produce cheaper because of slave labor. But it was the poor whites who fought the Civil War. Planters who owned 20 or more slaves didn't have to go into the army.

GWTW is a fairy tale. It's a very entertaining film but has zero to do with actual reality during the Civil War.

by Anonymousreply 98June 29, 2015 3:17 PM

Leave it be.

by Anonymousreply 99June 30, 2015 5:19 AM

[quote]Totally missing from GWTW were poor subsistence white farmers and day laborers

They were in the book. I think it should be indicated whether your thoughts are on the book or the film, which are quite different.

by Anonymousreply 100June 30, 2015 3:43 PM

TV Land dropped "The Dukes of Hazard" because the car is painted like a Confederate flag. What's next?

by Anonymousreply 101July 2, 2015 1:41 AM

[quote]What's next?

Banning Designing Women so as not to promote Dixie Carter.

by Anonymousreply 102July 2, 2015 3:07 AM

I re-watched [italic]Cat on a Hot Tin Roof[/italic] last night & the kids play I Wish I Was in Dixie for Big Daddy at the beginning, are they going to edit that out & edit it out of all other movies & TV shows that play that song?

by Anonymousreply 103July 2, 2015 3:50 AM

[quote] ... let it die on the vine just like the ... lawn jockeys...

Perfect example. Lawn Jockeys were frequently used as signposts to guide travelers on The Underground Railroad.

Getting rid of them, destroying them or painting over them is destroying a positive symbol of the cause of abolition.

But never let that historical importance overcome political correctness.

by Anonymousreply 104July 2, 2015 4:47 AM

R104 "never let that historical importance overcome political correctness."

Political Correctness runs rampant on this site, which was supposed to be a gossip site.

by Anonymousreply 105July 2, 2015 4:49 AM

I demand that the Egyptian government take down these pyramids built by slave labor !!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 106July 2, 2015 4:55 AM

Dubai was built by slave labor. But we'd rather beat out breasts over 19th century wrongs than address why such practices are still permitted anywhere on earth.

by Anonymousreply 107July 2, 2015 4:58 AM

LOL R106

by Anonymousreply 108July 2, 2015 4:58 AM

[quote]Lou Lumenick, the fucktard who wrote this, is a right-wing nut. Per standard Murdoch reasoning, he's only doing this as a "you take my toys - the confederate flag, then you don't get to keep yours - Nyah, Nyah, Nyah!

I know Lou and no, he's not a rightwing nutjob. He's a fan of classic films and as such tends to have some old-fashioned opinions, but he's not a RWNJ, and he's not a liberal, either.

He's being accused of both, by the way. People on the Post are actually saying that he's a liberal who wrote this article on behalf of all liberals who want to start a class (or race) war.

And by the way, Lou never says the film should be banned. Not once. Everyone assumes that's what he's saying because everyone is a goddamned drama queen, but he doesn't say a thing about banning the film.

He did go overboard on this article so I'm not exactly being a cheerleader for him. His snark about Cheryl Boone Isaacs was way out of line. I know for a fact that he knows that TCM did indeed deal with the "problematic racial politics" of GWTW in a couple of short subjects, the kind of stuff they show between films, and that about a hundred million articles have been written about the subject, and that the film isn't exactly embraced by the whole country. The dude's decades older than I am and *I* remember people questioning showing GWTW on TV every year, given its whitewashing of history.

So he exaggerated his point to create what amounts to clickbait, and that's pretty shitty of him and I wish he'd stop doing that. At the same time, I wish the general public would stop losing their fucking minds over things that were never said or even implied.

by Anonymousreply 109July 2, 2015 11:39 AM

"I demand that the Egyptian government take down these pyramids built by slave labor !!"

Not even remotely similar, funny, or clever.

by Anonymousreply 110July 2, 2015 11:46 AM

R110 Or correct. The ancient Egyptian cities of Ptolomy and Ramses were built by Hebrew slave labour, not the pyramids.

by Anonymousreply 111July 2, 2015 12:07 PM

”those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.” The Civil War was a period in history. It may give America a black eye because it happened, but it did. Many people died on both sides. The end result is the north won. Slaves were made free and the world went on.

I loved both the book and the movie. Whether they were correct historically I don't know. What I do know is that they represented an era long gone. You can't erase history, as much as you want to sanitize and repackage it. And as far as I know the first person to sell a slave was black (in Africa) and the first person to buy a slave was black. ( in the West Indies).

by Anonymousreply 112July 2, 2015 12:24 PM

This reminds me of the scrubbing of all American Indian references from American Football when in fact American Indians played a very large role in making the game what it is today. But no one knows this history because some white people got upset and thought it was offensive to even have any American Indian implied term associated with football. So now the role American Indians played in the development of the game was whitewashed away. And we call that being politically correct.

by Anonymousreply 113July 2, 2015 12:46 PM

[quote]some white people got upset and thought it was offensive to even have any American Indian implied term associated with football.

Actually, it was a Native American lady -- she started the campaign all by herself, and for many years was alone.

I think her objection was to making Native Americans mascots, I don't recall her saying anything about censoring history.

It is a strange thing humans do -- create monuments to those they have murdered.

by Anonymousreply 114July 2, 2015 12:49 PM

Doing the "Tomahawk Chop" or whatever the hell it was called didn't enlighten us about Native Americans' role in developing football, R113. Not a single fucking drunk fat white dude with his shirt off and wearing a cheap fake headdress at a football game knew (or cared) about Native American history. What is wrong with you?

by Anonymousreply 115July 2, 2015 12:51 PM

I remember when Jane Fonda was with Ted Turner and seeing her do the Tomahawk chop made me laugh and laugh.

by Anonymousreply 116July 2, 2015 12:56 PM

[quote] Well, he was right

No he wasn't. Nobody is going after GWTW.

Fabrication queen.

by Anonymousreply 117July 2, 2015 1:07 PM

I just read a excerpt of the actor who played Cooter about how there was never any racism in Hazard County. That made me think -- did they even have people of color show up in Hazard County. That said, I don't think the show should have necessarily been pulled because of the flag -- maybe because it is just a really bad show (with the exception of the Duke Boys jean) -- but not because of the flag.

I don't think GWTW should be banned either. As a movie it is well done, but it should be acknowledged how it has sanitized and romanticized the old south. Artistry of the movie aside, I can see why anyone who is black would cringe watching it. Any black character who is not a loyal slave/ex-slave to the O'Hara family is shown as silly and/or insignificant. Granted it is 1939, there are not going to be any films that do not marginalize someone of color or present them as less than a full character, but for someone of color, that cannot make it any easier for them to see these films.

The one image I am surprised is still around is Chief Wahoo of the Cleveland Indians.

by Anonymousreply 118July 2, 2015 1:12 PM

"What's next Blazing Saddles? I thought that movie was funny as a child but only because I didn't realize how horribly racist and homophobic it was. I was disgusted trying to watch it as an adult."

I|t's not racist or homophobic - it MOCKS racists and homophobes.

It is reflected in the character of Alf Garnett in the Brit sit-com "'Till Death Us Do Part" - Warren Mitchell, who played Alf, would often be complimented on his portrayal of the racist, homophic Alf - to which he would reply "He's an idiot, he's written as an idiot, and if you identify with him, you're an idiot "

by Anonymousreply 119July 2, 2015 1:26 PM

I’ve never seen it. I need to get on that before it gets canceled altogether.

by Anonymousreply 120April 4, 2021 12:50 AM

GWTW is outdated and needs to go. Racism no more.

by Anonymousreply 121April 4, 2021 3:31 AM

Who is this queen bumping threads from 2015? Dke, already, you finger-fucking cunt.

by Anonymousreply 122April 4, 2021 3:33 AM

I’ve actually never seen it.

by Anonymousreply 123May 20, 2022 10:56 PM

Bump

by Anonymousreply 124August 19, 2022 9:09 PM

Leave "Gone With the WInd" alone! Don't like it, don't watch it. Easy!

No more censorship! No more banned movies or books! Don't tr to control my thoughts. You have no right to decide for me. Who do you think you are, anyway? Benevolent Dictator?? Because there is no such thing!

by Anonymousreply 125August 19, 2022 9:18 PM

I'll think about that tomorrow.

by Anonymousreply 126August 19, 2022 9:26 PM

[quote]The one image I am surprised is still around is Chief Wahoo of the Cleveland Indians.

Talk about clueless. Hello, the Cleveland Indians are no longer.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 127August 19, 2022 11:00 PM

"Indian" isn't particularly offensive, but it's not their preferred appellation. What's the big deal in changing the name R127? I kinda like "Guardians."

by Anonymousreply 128August 19, 2022 11:03 PM
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