Can we discuss All That Jazz

Joe Gideon: It's showtime, folks!

Yes it did well. Nine Oscar nominations including Best Picture and four wins.

Dancer Backstage: Fuck him! He never picks me!

Dancer Backstage: Honey, I did fuck him and he never picks me either.

It seems so narcissistic of a film. Whatever happened to Leland Palmer?

[quote]Whatever happened to Leland Palmer?

Roy Scheider said she moved to Israel.

My memory is that is was critically acclaimed but didn't do all that well at the box office.

Amazing film, totally holds up today.

Who beat Roy Scheider for the Oscar?

R7, Dustin Hoffman, "Kramer vs Kramer"

The Erotic Air segment was an eye-opener for this young kid who saw it in the theater.

I was a confused teenager when this came out and saw it in the theater. I was a little less confused about myself after the "Air-Rotica" number.

I'm not a Broadway fan but this is still one of my favorite movies.

I convinced adults to take me to that movie 6 times. I was 9. Airotica was like crack - or pop tarts, since I was only 9.

"All That Jazz" had a total gross of $37 million during its initial run. Box Office Mojo doesn't list it on their 1980 chart (ATJ premiered 12/23/79) but that take would place it between "Friday the 13th" and "Brubaker." It was just $2 million under "Caddyshack."

I believe Leland Palmer lives in San Francisco or somewhere in the Northwest and became a Rabbi.

Dustin Hoffman won the Oscar that year; I guess the Academy thought it was finally time to give him one. But the best performance of that year was by Peter Sellers in "Being There."

I thought Roy Scheider was great as the thinly veiled version of Bob Fosse, who eventually did die of a heart attack, right out on this street, with Gwen Verdon at his side.

It did well because the TV ads focused on the musical numbers. Did you know that Cheryl Clark was cast to do the Air-rotica number. She even helped Fosse with the number but then he decided he wanted her to go topless during the finale and a strict Roman Catholic, she begged him to change his mind. He didn't, she was fired and he got Sandahl Bergman and the rest is history.

Are you dating a 45-year old sap for opiates?

[quote]My memory is that is was critically acclaimed but didn't do all that well at the box office.

The opened Christmas of 1979 and played over eight months on screens.

I saw it high school with this girl I was dating. She was bored to tears and I was entranced. So many questions answered that night.

I remember it being really shocking to me. As a sixteen year-old, I thought it was just showing shock value for the sake of it. I saw it again in my 20s and thought it was pretty much a masterpiece. Like the above poster says, it does hold up really well.

I'm still not fixed.

Very pretentious garbage. I'll have to go and take my blood pressure medicine now.

Still brilliant. Fosse was a hero.

Now that he's dead and Streep has admitted he was one leading man she hated working with, I am starting to wonder if Roy Scheider (who took over for Dreyfuss) was a pain in the ass to all. Hoffman won and, in his speech, made a point that he hadn't beaten Olivier, he hadn't beaten Sellers, he hadn't beaten another nominee.... but didn't mention Scheider which seemed too obvious an oversight. Especially since they'd worked together as brothers, no less, in "Marathon Man" fairly recently. Any inside scoop?

Scheider always had a bad rep. Womanizer, angry, arrogant. The part was sort of perfect for him.

I think it's a brilliant film. It could have fallen into narcissism but the film has so much energy and style, you can't help but be sucked in. That opening sequence, set to George Benson's "On Broadway", is one of the best openers I've ever seen on film.

And don't forget the "Air-otica" sequence became the inspiration for Paula Abdul's "Cold Hearted" video a decade later.

R23 the interesting thing is that Hoffman is dissed fairly hardcore in All That Jazz.

While Joe is cutting The Stand Up, he complains about the actor's performance. "Why did I let him mumble?". The Stand Up was a stand-in for Lenny, and presumably Cliff Gorman is basically playing Hoffman playing Lenny Bruce. He also shows Hoffman (David Newman in the movie) to be a rather pretentious, arrogant jerk.

You're right. When Hoffman was giving his speech he mentions all of his fellow nominees, except Scheider. He even mentions Robert Duvall, who had lost in the Supporting Actor category. He also mentions directors he's worked with in the past, including... BOB FOSSE!

So yeah, he clearly was not thrilled with Scheider.

Crazy to think that Cliff Gorman was playing Dustin Hoffman playing Lenny Bruce... a role that Gorman had originated on Broadway!!

Ann Reinking was stunning in that movie. Amazing that Fosee made her test several times when the role was actually based on her. Fosse was dating Jessica Lange at the time which is how she ended up getting cast. Leland Palmer was wonderful. They wanted Shirley MacLaine who wanted too much money. And John Lithgow has a wonderful little cameo. Great movie. I think every dancer working on broadway at the time is in that opening number.

John Lithgow plays a thinly veiled version of Mike Nichols in this. He's depicted as a sneaky piece of shit and that's exactly what he was.

I think Lithgow was playing a thinly veiled version of Harold Prince, who was approached to take over directing "Chicago" in case Fosse dropped dead.

No, R29, it's clearly Nichols. Prince is thought of as a very nice man. Plus it was also established that Lithgow's character was a successful film director as well as a theater director. Prince directed two films but they were both huge flops.

R30, it's Prince. The glasses on the head gives it away and the play he's seen directing is clearly from "Pacific Overtures." Prince even said as much. You have to wonder why Fosse stuck it to Prince when it was Bennett who stole all his thunder. But then, he completely ripped of ACL with his own opening number, which arguably has a longer life than "I Hope I get it." He said he would have directed ACL the movie if he'd been asked. Now THAT would have been interesting.

OH my God, R31. That is the most tantlizing "might have been" I ever heard. Fosse directing A Chorus Line movie WOULD have been interesting and certainly better than that piece of shit that came out.

All That Jazz is a pretty great film. Ahead of its time in many ways and the antithesis of "narcissistic" if you watch it with any comprehension. I don't know about Scheider being "difficult" but it wouldn't be a surprise if he was. Meryl Streep has grumbled about several of her leading men, including Hoffman, and Charles Dance.

It's NOT Prince. Fosse's dislike of Nichols was well-known in the business. He liked Prince and wouldn't have him portrayed as an opportunistic asshole in his film.

R33 Narcissistic- having an excessive or interest in oneself

By that definition, All That Jazz is the most narcissistic movie of all time. You can still be insecure, have massive self doubt and be narcissistic. In fact most of them do.

R28 = Martin Charnin

R34, according to the Martin Gottfried bio of Fosse, Prince not only saw himself as the character, he took it personally. Now Fosse definitely took bits and pieces everywhere and put them together for a character, although some, like the Fred Ebb composer is completely recognizable to anyone who ever saw Ebb perform. The "victim" dancer is based on Jennifer Nairn Smith who had trouble picking up the Fosse-isms, but she was a member of the NYC Ballet so she was not the incompetent the way Deborah Geffner was.

I saw it twice back in the day, never intentionally and I never liked it. Like its main character, the film is way too much in love with itself

I saw it in the theater when it first opened. Almost passed out from the heart-surgery scene (I'm very squeamish). I really didn't like it.

I didn't understand why they played Ethel Merman singing 'There's No Business Like Show Business' over the final credits. I guess it was supposed to be ironic, but it just confused me.

Yes, all of the answers to who and what is based on who and what is laid out very precisely in the Martin Gottfried bio of Fosse which is quite riveting throughout. IIRC the book is titled All HIs Jazz.

He shows Fosse to be the ultimate pessimist (and misanthrope and, of course, misogynist) who was never satisfied with his fame and fortune, always felt dissed by the critics and the public, Hollywood and even Broadway and constantly felt he needed to prove himself.

Sad story but a great lesson in the history of mid-century Broadway musicals.

Behold, Deborah Geffner's screen test.

Geffner and Sandahl Bergman had terrible titties. Sandahl just got a job and those two guys stood straight up when she was laying down.

Yeah, Sandahl Bergman had the worst boob job ever! I like the scene where she gyrates topless on the jungle gym thing, and her boobs don't jiggle at all.

Here they are failing to yield to gravity.

Fosse wanted to play the lead role after Dreyfuss dropped out, but the producers said no.

R44 for the best. Fosse looked too old by that time. Roy Schieder looked about 10 years younger and it totally worked.

On Broadway shows what a movie version of A Chorus Line could and should have been. I love the OR dream sequence where the three women each have their own number.

I saw this on Encore when that channel first debuted in the early 90s. I thought of myself as straight back then for some reason, but I definitely got a boner during that Gary/John number that you guys have mentioned a dozen times so far.

I thought the movie was great, but nearly threw-up during the heart surgery scene.

I was born in the late 80s and saw this only a few years ago, but I thought it was fantastic (I'm jealous of the posters who got to see it on a big screen). And this is without me knowing every reference you're mentioning here. Leland Palmer fascinated me.

Never seen it.

No, OP. It was a disaster that killed my career and I didn't do [italic]Buffalo Bill[/italic] and [italic]ALF[/italic] after it.

That "Ann Reinking had to screentest X amount of times" sounds like a PR story meant to head off bad press over "mistress cast as mistress."

It was popular, but the reviews were better than the box office as I recall. It was nominated for all the awards, but being such a grim sophisticated story of pure brilliance, it took awhile to truly catch on.

It gets better every time I see it.

Who else could have done the role besides Reinking? McKechnie? Vicki Frederick?

Jack Lemmon should have won the Oscar that year for The China Syndrome!

Our Jessie

When I was around 7 or 8 years old, I would catch glimpses of it on HBO. For some reason, it creeped me out. I recently watched the whole thing and enjoyed it very much.

Is it Kathryn Doby who is the lead dancer/instructor in the opening scene? Black leotard and tan boots. I don't know why, but I find her utterly fascinating in those first few minutes.

This blog entry says Yes.

[quote]I could have spent the movie's entire 123 minutes watching more of the film's opening "On Broadway" audition sequence; there's nothing more thrilling than hundreds of people dancing in unison. (We were told around 450 dancers participated in creating the sequence.) And what a thrill to be seated not far from Kathryn Doby, the assistant who leads the auditioning dancers through the increasingly difficult combinations.

It also says she was Fosse’s real life assistant (something I didn’t know)

Give me opening scene from All That Jazz over "I Hope I Get It" from ACL any day of the week.

Deborah Geffner's screen test was horrible. I think it was some other audition that got her the job.

Honestly, I hated the movie. I thought it was terrible. Boring.

The best thing about Fosse/Verdon is that it prompted me to go back and watch all of Fosse's film work - The Pajama Game, Damn Yankees, My Sister Eileen, Sweet Charity, ATJ, even The Affairs of Dobie Gillis. The downside is that watching so much of the real thing made the TV show look pale in comparison.

I had the soundtrack on cassette until my Walkman ate it. Wonderful music.

R64

I can top that; was cleaning out a stack of LPs last weekend and found my copy of ATJ. Don't have a CD of All That Jazz so that LP remained instead of going to the trash pile.

Ending was a bit jarring when first saw it; few more times later things finally clicked. It's the finality of hearing that zipper close on body bag in an otherwise quiet hospital room in contrast to what came before that got me. I mean that's it isn't it? One minute you're alive then you're not.

Jessica is very beautiful in this. I think i read that all her scenes were shot last and the studio wanted them cut. IIRC, Pauline Kael referred to Jessica's look as Our Lady of the Oxygen Tank.

Hold on! Here comes Ann!

I thought ti was quite bizarre that Fossie by way of Roy Scheider would portray himself as so irresistible that even the Angel of Death had the hots for him.

I recall reading years ago that Richard Dreyfus was Fosse's first choice but Richard had developed a bit of a drug problem. I wonder who else was offered the lead role. Roy Scheider was an inspired choice.

When I saw the film on its first release I was on the fence about. I admired it but didn't embrace it and that is exactly what happened when I watched it for the second since a few months ago. My partner had never seen the film and he hated it.

It is not a film for everybody that is for sure. Also Jessica Lange never looked more gorgeous or alluring.

Out of perhaps a bit of morbid curiosity wondered about dancers in ATJ, especially opening scene. There were of course so many that most were not credited. But for those who were a quick Google shows many are still with us!

One tragic death was Danny Ruvolo who actually died in a car accident just before All The Jazz was released.

All That Jazz did far better box office than film version of A Chorus Line ($14,202,899)

Re the casting of Gideon -- I thought Scheider was awesome, but I can maybe see Carradine or Caan, Thank God it wasn't Alda:

"He wanted Robert De Niro to play him, then Warren Beatty and Jack Nicholson. Dustin Hoffman? Keith Carradine? He auditioned Ann Reinking over and over—to play herself. He settled on Richard Dreyfuss as his alter ego. Dreyfuss was at the peak of his stardom, even though he wasn’t a dancer. But when Dreyfuss came to work with Fosse, he couldn’t cope with Fosse’s abrasive style. At his friend Roy Schieider’s apartment Dreyfuss said, 'I don’t think I want to do this movie. I don’t like Fosse and he doesn’t like me. I just don’t feel mentally prepared to do this thing'. Later he said, 'For a few years I told myself that I was well out of it, and then I finally faced up to it—I’d given up a chance to work with Bob Fosse, and it was stupid of me. I told him so myself.'

The hunt for a leading man was on again. Paul Newman, Alan Alda, Gene Hackman, George Segal, Elliot Gould, Robert Blake, Robert Redford, Ryan O’Neal, James Caan. Should Fosse play the part himself? A 4 pack a day workaholic smoker, with one heart attack down: probably a bad idea. Warren Beatty again, Alan Bates, Jack Lemmon, Jon Voight. Roy Scheider wasn’t any more of a dancer than Dreyfuss, but he was interested, and crafted an autobiographical monologue to audition. Fosse decided he was “wryly, wearily, sexily at ease. ‘ Okay,’ Fosse said. ‘You’re the guy’. Filming started in two weeks. Scheider was worried about having to dance, talk and act simultaneously. But, after wide ranging conversations about the character of Joe Gideon, Fosse was confident, and that he could choreograph around Scheider with actual dancers."

[quote]I thought ti was quite bizarre that Fossie by way of Roy Scheider would portray himself as so irresistible that even the Angel of Death had the hots for him.

Fosse was "flirting with Death," r69.

Ben Vereen really deserved AT LEAST a nomination. But then, so did Palmer and Reinking. And Scheider was robbed.

Paul Newman would've been an interesting choice.

Wait, someone tell how on earth did "they" fuck up the film A Chorus Line??? Terrible!!!!

R74

Exactly!

Linked clip of interview with Bob Fosse discussing All that Jazz. Here's a man who had recently been ill (heart attack/open heart surgery) yet you can see he's still smoking away.......

Most people after having a brush with death make all sorts of deals or bargains with whatever deity they believe in, and or Angel of Death itself. Clearly Gideon/Fosse is messing with Death; you'd think having been warned (the heart attack et al), he'd "change is way of living".... But obviously that doesn't happen and we know how things end.

Gideon knew his way around women (and people for that matter) using them to get what he wanted or needed. The flirtatious game he plays with Death is a skillful chess match if you will, but as we all know in the end Death always wins.

On another note like how Bob Fosse speaks about how he wanted to create the realness of an actual cattle call in opening of film. Again ATJ just beats pants off ACL in that aspect.

Fosse was fucking Jessica Lange. No doubt that's how she got her role in the film. It's an ok movie. I found the characters of his daughter and ex-wife unbearable, though.

Can we discuss All That Jizz, the porn parody movie that made about the film?

Lange had broken up with Fosse by the time the film was made. She was too smart for his ways. That's why he cast her in the role. She's the one woman he can't manipulate---death.

R27

How indeed!

First they waited nearly a decade between ACL hit Broadway and release of film; too much time had gone by and thus even the live production was somewhat dated by 1985.

Then thanks to songs being cut, moved around, new ones added, it was just a disaster.

However main issue was film lost central focal point that defined meaning; ACL was about dancers trying to land a spot in what could or may be their last major gig.

Wiki entry sums things up:

"As Kelly Bishop, who played Sheila in the original Broadway cast, later noted, "it was appalling when director Richard Attenborough went on a talk show and said 'this is a story about kids trying to break into show business.' I almost tossed my TV out the window; I mean what an idiot! It's about veteran dancers looking for one last job before it's too late for them to dance anymore. No wonder the film sucked"

Interesting interview with Jessica Lange from Interview Magazine about All That jazz and King Kong.

Ms. Lange was in a relationship with Mikhail Baryshnikov from 1976 to 1982 which covers time ATJ project. Their daughter Shura Baryshnikov was born in 1981.....

R73

"Fosse decided he was “wryly, wearily, sexily at ease" describes Roy Scheider perfectly IMHO.

If you catch any of Roy Scheider's other work or just look at the man in his younger days you get that sort of vibe. Kind of guy who is sure of himself as a straight man, but gays aren't sure how to read things. You see a bit of this in opening casting call scene where some of the male dancers can't seem to work out if he's putting the move on them, or if they should on him (if it would help their chances).

"Ms. Lange was in a relationship with Mikhail Baryshnikov from 1976 to 1982 which covers time ATJ project. "

That may be, but she was still fucking Fosse. And Baryshnikov was not exactly monogamous, either. In Gelsey Kirkland's memoir she relates how he tried to have sex with her when he was involved with Lange.

Interesting bit from the interview above. I guess she tried to get the TV movie that Susan Blakely did with Lee Grant. Somehow she got a feature film made and that overshadowed the TV movie. (which I'd love to see. It is kind of lost. Not even on youtube last time I checked.)

LANGE: Yeah. Because every once in a while you see something very good on television. There’s one project I want to do so badly, I can’t tell you. In fact, last year I tried to get the rights to the book and it was owned by somebody already and I met with the people and talked to them and they said that they were working on the script and it was now being developed and sooner or later they were going to do a TV movie of the week. I don’t know if you remember the actress Frances Farmer? Her story is just incredible.

Scheider NAILED it! Fosse must have thanked his lucky stars that Drefuss walked out!

Schroder is not only sexy and world-weary and quite at ease with his masculinity, and somehow understands the character at a bone-deep level... he *looks* like a dancer, or former dancer. Dreyfuss was soft, but Scheider was lean and wiry, he holds his head high and his shoulders back like dancers do. Dreyfuss sticks his head forward and always had aggressive, intrusive body language, while Scheider knew Gideon was so in demand that people would always come to him. He sits back and lets them come, something Dreyfuss would never do.

Richard Dreyfuss was not nearly sexy enough for this part - too nebbishy!

Good riddance.

[quote]R87 Schroder is not only sexy and world-weary and quite at ease...

Weren’t Ricky Schroeder’s scenes as a calculating chorus boy cut??

Still from the disturbing cut scene of Ricky and his Angel of Death.

Dreyfuss must have been going thru his own drug issues at this point. Here he is presenting at that year's Oscars. He seems quite high.

TBH this movie really blew my mind. I just saw it for the first time on TCM a couple weeks ago. The opening cattle call is mesmerising. Jessica Lange as the Angel of Death? Gideon's addict personality and artistic temperment? Fking amazing. The whole thing. Better than Cabaret in my opinion.

Thank fuck Dreyfuss quit. He would have ruined this movie.

Supposedly John Travolta was the first approached and turned the role down. I don't know that I buy that because he would have only been 24 at the time and that's far too young (although Dreyfuss was only 30, but looked 40.)

I thought Scheider was perfection, but I must say I'm curious to see what Alan Bates would have done with the role.

The "Gideon and Jagger" scene! This is from an old DL thread on "scenes you've watched over 100 times".

[quote]There are so many iconic moments in that film - the entire opening sequence for example - but the moment that hits me right in the solar plexus is this one. Seen out of context, it's wonderful: Peter Allen's singing, the natural camaraderie between Ann Reinking and Erzsebet Foldi and of course, the dancing. But seen as part of the whole film, it becomes almost too much for me to bear. When I first saw "All That Jazz," I rewatched this one scene maybe 10 times. Since then, I have no idea how many times I've watched that one scene, but it must be nearing the hundreds. The thought of Joe Gideon's girlfriend and daughter working on that routine for hours, to get it just right for the notorious perfectionist. The knowledge that even if it wasn't perfect, he'd be bowled over regardless. The fact that Kate is so loving and caring with Michelle, and that all the basic ingredients for a happy family are here, yet Joe continues to sleep around and throw his life away. The part where Reinking plays Michelle's stomach like a piano, glances at Joe and says "Pretty pictures." Joe's funky apartment, with all the theater paraphernalia and those whatchamacallit lights. The part where the duo rush at Joe to kiss him. Finally, and most importantly, Joe's face throughout. I don't know how Roy Scheider does it. Amusement, regret, incredulity, sadness, pride - they're all there. The killer: during the line, "And every gal only had one fellow." His face at that point slays me. It's a little flash of recognition, of regret and embarrassment and still you can see he'll never change. Beautiful.

I saw it right after my grandmother died of heart disease.

I thought a musical would cheer me up.

Anyway, great movie that I still enjoy even if it was a little traumatic the first time.

R93 I can't imagine there is much truth in the rumour of John Travolta. We would have been way way to young but he was probably the hottest ticket at the box office at that time so it wouldn't surprise me if his name came up.

Scheider was brilliant in the film and much more deserving of the Oscar than Dustin Hoffman. In fact I think this is Scheider's best screen work.

The wonderful cinematographer Giuseppe Rotunno was nominated for his only Oscar for "All That Jazz". He said working with Fosse was "The dream of my life. It was like working with five directors at once, but without the problems of having to work with so many."

It's hard to believe now that Kramer vs. Kramer won over both All That Jazz and Apocalypse Now. The latter two films are two of the finest films of the '70s and I think Scheider's performance was more deserving of the Oscar than Hoffman.

Surprising that Palmer didn't have a long movie career. She was perfectly cast here. Palmer was able to create her own character without being a direct copy of Verdon. She should have been nominated. Also, she makes such an impression and yet she's not in the movie that much.

Leland Palmer is now Linda Posner and is still around....

R82, they have ACL reunion on Donahue from 1990 on youtube. Kelly's At The Ballet is heartbreaking.

More:

R93

John Travolta may have been sex on a stick in late 1950's, and even perhaps one of the hottest things on stage, small or big screen; but as Bob Fosse he would have been all wrong.

Where to start? Body both in terms of physique and carriage was just all wrong for a dancer much less Bob Fosse.

Roy Scheider isn't required to do much dancing in ATJ, but he did pick up or whatever enough moves including signature Fosse movements to make things a bit believable.

John Travolta was 4 in the late fifties.

I saw it when it came out. I was 18 and thought it was the greatest film ever made. Still do. When it lost to "Kramer vs Kramer" was when I stopped watching the Oscars.

New York Times was very generous with their review of ATJ

By the end of 1970's was sick to death of "What I Did For Love"..... It seemed as if every high school, college or whatever graduation had someone or entire class singing that GD song.

Oscars for 1980 was a tough year and had lots of surprises both for nominations (who got a nod, and who didn't), and those that one.

Roger Ebert pretty much sums things up nicely at least on nomination side of things.

Important to remember Fosse was nominated and won his Oscar for best director (Cabaret) in 1973. Cabaret was also notable as one of few films to sweep 8 major Oscar wins, but didn't get best picture.

ATJ was a film people either loved or hated at first viewing. Film was widely seen as some sort of self flagellation movie about Bob Fosse's life and we the audience were invited along. IMHO Roy Scheider made that film; he should have received best actor Oscar as without him the film just wouldn't have held together.

R104

Sorry, forgot to proof read; meant late "1970's"....

Carry on...

[quote] Dudley Moore and Bo Derek both were favored for nominations for the phenomenally successful “10,” but the movie was all but overlooked.

Umm, Ebert, in what world was Bo Derek ever favored for an Oscar nomination??

Kramer was a huge box office hit. This cemented it’s Oscar chances, not to mention having an overdue for an Oscar Hoffman and ascending movie star Streep in it. The two all but swept the critics awards and won golden globes. Roy Scheider didn’t bother showing up for the ceremony, ditto for Peter Sellers and Al Pacino. Jack Lemmon was the only other nominee there. In Scheiders case he knew the outcome. He said after the show it was Hoffman’s year, just like it was John Wayne’s year when he won. His daughter burst into tears in fact when Roy lost.

Admit it; all you girls went out and bought a record, LP, tape, CD or whatever recording of Vivaldi's Concerto for Strings in G, "Alla Rustica" after watching All That Jazz.

While not exactly a dancer, but performing arts related role Richard Dreyfus played Elliot Garfield in "The Goodbye Girl" (1978) and won a best actor award.

Whether or not that made RD a hot property before ATJ went into production cannot say, but he still was all wrong for role, period.

R86

Are you referring to 1982 film "Frances" starring Hope Lange?

Well if so you're going to have to be content with trailers, because that is all on YT atm, unless you want to purchase a copy.

Wait, further search on YT turns up some clips from Frances.....

Last one, you can find rest easily on YT.

R92 How long ago did you see it on TCM? It didn’t show up in a search of their on-demand selections.

What’s RD’s height? Was it close to BF’s was that the physical connection that maybe they saw at first? RS always looks lanky and tall on screen

[quote] Interesting interview with Jessica Lange from Interview Magazine about All That jazz and King Kong.

Thank you for the link. I LOVE how Fran Lebowitz randomly drops by the interview and steals it with one line at the end :

LANGE: (...) I like your book a lot, Fran.

LEBOWITZ: Thank you. I haven’t read it yet.

I saw it when it came out, and then again just a few years ago. My original impression was reaffirmed: it's entertaining in parts, but it's just a massive ego show. The Air-Rotic number is so cool (though it is almost impossible to see what Brioadway show it could fit into, especially since the number was originally supposed to be about air travel), and then they cut to Leland Palmer sobbing away at its beauty (its cool, and its enjoyably sleazy, but that reaction seemed unbelievable and also ridiculously self-serving--ESPECIALLY since it's Fosse's own choreography). And then other than the Joe Gideon character and the character Palmer plays, there are no other human beings in the entire movie--everyone else is flat and uninteresting.

The best part is the opening "cattle call" sequence with "On Broadway," but that's pretty much a rip-off of the opening of "A Chorus Line." And the whole thing is pretty much a rip-off of "8 and 1/2."

I like Roy Scheider in it, because it's such a different kind of role for him. Ann Reinking, an appealing stage performer, just isn;t able to felsh out ehr part, and neither can the little girl who plays joe's daughter.

Richard Dreyfuss as a dancer, a choreographer? With his tubby body? He was a ridiculous choice for that role.

Fosse didn't scream dancer either.

Who is centre frame?

I know Paula and her music video homage were mentioned earlier, but was the Glee homage to the homage? Naya, still miss her everyday, takes on the song and dance while glaring at man candy Dean Geyer.

Leland Palmer gives one of the worst line readings when she blubbers "You son of a bitch!" . The weak link in an otherwise great movie.

R111 Dustin also played the game at that time, by going on TV shows promoting the movie during oscar season. A different contrast from his previous nominations where he blasted the academy as being obscene and no better than a beauty contest. There was a sense that he had mellowed and grown up.

R126 since the meaning of her reading is still being debated, it obviously was a great line reading.

[quote]he blasted the academy as being obscene and no better than a beauty contest.

I now see his point.

R119, Scheider wasnt tall, he was more or less average height. Not that much taller than Dreyfuss in "Jaws".

But he was so lean that he photographed as taller than he was, which is how you'd expect a dancer/choreographer to look. And Fosse was a hell of a dancer in his day.

But he didn't look like a dancer. He had no neck. He emphasized his failings (the hunched shoulders etc.). Compare him to this gorgeous creature beside him.

Why is Jackie Gleason on the floor?

Reinking doesn't have a neck either. She has linebacker's shoulders, short torso and no waist. But everyone talks about the legs because it was all she had.

She also had a nice butt.

And she also had decent sized titties for a dancer.

Sandahl got her money's worth from her breast implants. But did Charlene Ryan?

R135 Charlene was involved in the Hefner Playboy crowd because of Burt Reynolds and Dom Deluise so she essentially did it to fit in. It was like Dance 10 Looks 3. She married a famous cartoonist and retired.

R136

Charlene Ryan married Sergio Aragonés though you have to know this in order to hunt down information. Very little online otherwise about Senor Aragonés mentions his wife.

"Fosse didn't scream dancer either."

He always had a lean, dancer's body. Dreyfuss never seemed to get rid of his pudge; he was always shaped like a pear.

[quote] then they cut to Leland Palmer sobbing away at its beauty (its cool, and its enjoyably sleazy, but that reaction seemed unbelievable and also ridiculously self-serving--ESPECIALLY since it's Fosse's own choreography).

That's not why she's sobbing. She's sobbing because he's taken the show down some dark road that she didn't expect and it's going to overshadow her, but she also knows it's good and there will be no changing it.

Any pics of Charlene Ryan?

OP NO!

Is this mentioned Charlene, the Never Been to Me Charlene?

No. The singer is a Brit.

Leland Palmer was perfect in this - but she didn’t have traditional leading lady looks. Maybe if she’d packaged herself as the Kooky Friend type, she’d have got more work.

Hollywood eventually latched onto Jessica Lange , ignoring Palmer and Reinking (aside from Blake Edwards’ “Mickie & Maude”)

There’s always deeply uncomfortable moments in this interviewers’ spots! [italic](“I might not have thought of Anne Reinking for that part, if I read the script. Were you surprised when you were offered the role?”)

Charlene Ryan was one of the fan dancers in "All I Care About Is Love" number from Chicago sung by Jerry Jerry Orbach. Cannot say for sure if she's in this clip. There are images online but cannot link back to them.

Sorry - this is the interview clip for r144

Interesting VF piece about ATJ, Fosse/Verdon......

IMHO as a young man Bob Fosse looked every bit of a dancer.

IMHO as a young man Bob Fosse looked every bit of a dancer.

Really? Look at his posture. It screams "beta."

More:

Bob Fosse and his vaudeville partner Charles Grass. It is amazing how differently their lives turned out.

Reynolds, Champion, Fosse - Give a Girl a Break

Bob Fosse, Bobby Van, Tommy Rall, Marge & Gower Champion

Didn't Debbie Reynolds say Bob rubbed his boner on her leg?

So who’s vanity was it, Roy’s or Bob’s, that they didn’t go full receding hairline balding in ATJ?

Ann Reinking married money (several times in fact) so she really didn't need to work.

Which is just as well, because her career suffered a major blow after substituting for Phil Collins at the 1985 Oscars. It generated a ton of negative press, and Phil Collins trashed her in the media for months afterwards.

She did have a brief comeback in the 90's with the Chicago revival and Fosse.

The Angel of Death

[italic]L'ange de la mort[/italic]

Bob Fosse did that awful Star 80 movie. Disaster!

[quote]R158 Reinking’s career suffered a major blow after substituting for Phil Collins at the 1985 Oscars. It generated a ton of negative press, and Phil Collins trashed her in the media for months afterwards.

So strange she was blamed for that - it’s not like she put the stupid number together.

She was hired to dance, and she danced.

No. She sang. Oh how she sang.

But I doubt she said, “Hey!....let’s prerecord it all. That would be GREAT!”

Having Ann perform that song would’ve been like having Doris Day singing the [italic]Ghostbusters[/italic] theme the year before.

^^ WHY were we denied that??

Ann Reinking married money at least three times; Larry Small, Herbert Allen Jr., and James Stuart. Of the three likely second was biggest catch of them all. Her fourth and current husband, Peter Talbert is a sportswriter.

We are fortunate to have Ms. Reinking with us as she makes up a part of a group of dancers who worked with Bob Fosse. Through teaching Ms. Reinking and others are able to pass along the "Fosse style" as it were to new generations of dancers.

[quote]So strange she was blamed for that - it’s not like she put the stupid number together. She was hired to dance, and she danced.

She wasn't criticized for her dancing--you're being disingenuous. You know as well as I do she was criticized for scream-croaking "SO TAKE A LOOK AT ME NOW!" towards the end of the song. That was her own choice. Even if the arranger had told her to do that, she could have refused.

R161 So what called out for the movie and song Against All Odds to be done as interpretive dance for the Oscars that year? Were all the songs from movies performed by dancers/struggling singers? Did Verdon do any of the nominees that year, and if so what was her’s like? Is it me or does she at one point add an unneeded “the” before odds in the song? Is she trying to interject emotions at certain points with some ‘guffaws’ in the song? Was the audience really that impressed that they clapped so much or was that canned? Or maybe they were clapping because it was over? That was a lot of build up for the male dancer, I wonder if he ended up wishing he’d been unnamed? Collins should have sued for negative impact to his career from that performance.

"Bob Fosse did that awful Star 80 movie. Disaster!"

Actually, that was a good movie. And it featured what should have been an Oscar nominated performance by Eric Roberts. It supposedly didn't do well because it was just SO dark. But it was an accurate depiction of Hollywood. The only problem I had with it was the casting of Mariel Hemingway as Dorothy Stratten. Despite getting breast implants and having her hair bleached (or maybe it was a wig) Barbie doll blonde she resembled Dorothy Stratten in no way, shape or form. She was nowhere near as good looking as Stratten. I heard Daryl Hannah was also up for the role. She would have been a much better choice. Facially, she resembled Dorothy Stratten quite a bit and she has a spacy quality that would have gone well with the character of Dorothy Stratten, who it would seem was a rather vapid personality.

Phil's not too hot on the vocals himself.

For me, All That Jazz was major. I saw it repeatedly at the rep theaters all over the LA basin (the Art Theatre in Long Beach, The Balboa Theatre in Newport Beach, The Beverly, etc.), I even saw it at the Castro Theatre in SF, double billed with Lenny, on acid. I was 19, ok? I enthusiastically told everyone I met to go see it, that it was fabulous, and they'd come back with "Yeah, but the ending . . was the ending fabulous?" Truth is, I was so bowled over by the glitz, glamour and style of the rest of the movie that I hadn't let the ending sink in.

Cut to today. I live in NYC, I work all the time, I have a creative/art background and college degree, I don't have tons and tons of friends (Ben Vereen: "Not much of a humanitarian, and this cat was never not nobody's friend"), and I've dealt with drug addictions of my own. And when I'm near—or at—the intersection of Sixth Avenue and W. 58th Street, I feel this big time ATJ vibe coming over me, every time.

R171

"Sixth Avenue and W. 58th Street..."

I saw what you did there....

[quote]R186 Collins should have sued for negative impact to his career from that performance.

Or, simply agreed to sing the song himself.

This is what happens when you slough off your duties.

[quote] It's hard to believe now that Kramer vs. Kramer won over both All That Jazz and Apocalypse Now. The latter two films are two of the finest films of the '70s

You can say that again--how many classic movies have lost the Best Picture oscar now? Too many too count. And let's not get started on movies that haven't even been nominated for Best Picture.

All That Jazz would have won if Kate Jackson had co-starred.

[quote]R169 Actually, “Star 80” was a good movie. And it featured what should have been an Oscar nominated performance by Eric Roberts. It supposedly didn't do well because it was just SO dark.

It’s not a good movie. It relies too much on the Paul Snyder character, who no one in the audience wants to spent much time with. Fosse doesn’t see Dorothy Stratton as anything more than dandelion fluff, so the dynamic as to what these two people might have meant to each other goes nowhere.

Even if Fosse found Stratten to be lightweight and unartistic, a more interesting story might have been why Hollywood, and men in general, aspire to posses that mythical, vacuous blonde prototype. But he was incapable of delving into a deeper question like that.

I only saw this once all the way through, in the theater during its original run when I was 14. I always meant to revisit it as an adult to see if it was as strange and surreal as I remembered it being...I watched it today, and it definitely was. I also found Roy Scheider sexy as a teen and still sexy now! A poster upthread said he was 30 in this, but he was actually in his late 40s when ATJ was filmed. And it’s weird looking back and seeing how many performers in the 70s were coming from a vaudeville background, something I did not understand as a kid and which is virtually unknown to young people today.

"It’s not a good movie. It relies too much on the Paul Snyder character, who no one in the audience wants to spent much time with. "

He concentrated on Snyder because Snyder was a much more interesting character than Stratten. Maybe audiences found Snyder too distasteful. But it was an accurate portrayal. Maybe audiences just couldn't handle the reality of the seediness of the Hollywood scene. But that was their loss. It was an intense movie, well worth seeing.

[quote] He concentrated on Snyder because Snyder was a much more interesting character than Stratten.

He concentrated on Snyder because Snyder had a penis.

Therefore = inherently more interesting. (Fosse’s thinking)

The musical numbers are great but it’s a rough and sluggish film to sit through. Jessica Lange is barely in it but of course her fan has to take over the thread. Anne Reinking was really a great dancer.

R145, no that was Fern Fitzgerald who replaced Ryan as GoToHell Kitty when she left to do the LA company of ACL. It's reported that Bennett fashioned parts of the Sheila character on her and she was an obvious choice. She was a Fosse favorite playing Nikki when Gwen Verdon left and Helen Gallagher took over Charity. She was in Coco and Bennett used her 6 foot height to great advantage. Here she is in Sweet Charity to the right of Chits

"Father Figure", "One More Try" and "Monkey" all charted within the R&B Top Ten. Strictly pop?

STAR 80 is well shot, atmospheric but there's very little to grab onto in terms of narrative, depth, resonance. Roberts is indeed good. But why are we spending time with these uninteresting people?

Roy Scheider and Bob Fosse could pull whenever they wanted of either sex; Richard Dreyfus OTOH never even on his best days had that sort of power. Yes, some starry eyed actress hoping to get a role or even lead in play (as in Goodbye Girl) might be willing to do whatever it takes, but you never got that sort of vibe from Fosse or even RS. They would have been able to pull regardless which is why RD would have been all wrong as Gideon.

You can see from cattle call scene that female dancers (and a few of the guys) were attracted to Gideon, and not just because of circumstances (casting a show). Can you honestly picture RD up their in tight pants and form fitting shirt having same effect?

Roy Schneider was very sexy in the movie. I would have wanted to hook up with him if I was one of his dancers.

If you haven't watched Roy in Marathon Man watch that as well.

Maybe the tension from Dustin and Roy comes from working together.

Meryl didn't like him. And he had a well known rep of being very difficult.

R187, I saw it, I'm glad we got to see him almost completely naked (from what I remember)

R121

Don't see ATJ cattle call opening as a rip off of ACL, not at all. Given All That Jazz was a film instead of Broadway musical obviously Fosse (who knew as much about open cattle calls as Bennett), could do more to flesh things out.

Dancers, students, professionals, anyone who has or had aspirations to be a professional dancer and knew/experienced the drill usually always prefer ATJ opening/cattle call to ACL. ATJ just really captured the essence of what open cattle calls are like; right down to that A-hole guy in black at 2.42 in R60 who obviously had no business being there at all.

But that is/was beauty of cattle calls, you got all sorts; prima donnas, total pros, wannabes, hangers on, poor souls who may have been something in Podunk, Iowa but were totally out of their league in NYC.

Main difference IMHO between ACL and ATJ is that in the cattle call opening Fosse is focusing on the process; whereas Bennett is more about the individual dancers and their lives/reasons for auditioning. This is why though the film ACL flopped, Broadway revival had more success, the latter though had some changes kept focus on the dancers and their motives.

R182

Thank you!

Ann Reinking was such a slut and homewrecker in FX's Fosse/Verdon. F*** her. Awful woman.

R182

Wasn't Go To Hell Kitty originally written with another long legged blonde in mind? I speak of Leigh Zimmerman....

[quote]R190 In the cattle call opening Fosse is focusing on the process; whereas Bennett is more about the individual dancers and their lives/reasons for auditioning.

Which there is no time, or motivation, to discuss in an actual professional audition, of course...

Fosse’s approach is real. Bennett’s is a contrived plot device.

R193, Charlene Ryan was in the OBC with Rivera and Verdon. It's such a nothing part. You can see her around 2:25. This rehearsal footage also includes the original finale with Verdon playing the saxophone and Rivera playing the drums. Wow, it's terrible!

Wasn’t the Ryan woman in The Beverly Hillbillies?

No, Go To Hell Kitty isn't a very large part in Chicago; which is why some actresses/dancers aren't exactly always thrilled to be cast.

For one thing GTHK isn't in the all famous Cell Block Tango (Pop...Six...Squish...Uh-Uh...Cicero...LIPCHITZ).

Well we've torn it to shreds, might as well go to the video tape.....

R187

Dustin Hoffman in MM was totally hot!

They should let these guys take a crack at re-recording the soundtrack

There are two Frances Farmer movies. I've seen the theatrical one with Lange.

It is the TV one with Susan Blakely that is impossible to find. That must be the one that bought the book rights out from under Lange. She somehow found a way to tell the story anyway.

Why are Charlene Ryan's tits part of this thread? How did she figure into All That Jazz?

Maybe Alan Parker might have made less of a mess of [italic]A Chorus Line[/italic].

R203 No.

TV-Movie "Will there really be a morning" hasn't been on air since initial viewing IIRC, and there don't seem to be any plans for doing so now or in future. Don't even believe it was sold on VHS or any other recorded format.

You can find snips on YT however.

There's always the poem...

Will there really be a "Morning"?

Is there such a thing as "Day"?

Could I see it from the mountains

If I were as tall as they?

Has it feet like Water lilies?

Has it feathers like a Bird?

Is it brought from famous countries

Of which I have never heard?

Oh some Scholar! Oh some Sailor!

Oh some Wise Men from the skies!

Please to tell a little Pilgrim

Where the place called "Morning" lies!

Haha...Janet Gretzky in ACL cattle call. Totally forgot And one of the Landers sisters too.

Marathon Man deserves its own thread. I will chime in on the finale of ATJ. Was not the best part of the movie but i can appreciate what they were going for here, just wasn't successful IMO. It gave me JCS Judas and the angels vibes. But that was a better song. Maybe I don't understand it. Is Ben Vereen the central nervous system? He's like a game show MC.

[quote] I also found Roy Scheider sexy as a teen and still sexy now! A poster upthread said he was 30 in this, but he was actually in his late 40s when ATJ was filmed.

No, the poster upthread said that Richard Dreyfuss was 30 (but looked 40.)

R168 what negative impact? Phil Collins was huge in the 80s and early 90s. He went on to win his own Oscar for that horrible Disney song in 2000, but was really owed the Oscar from his past two nominations. I don’t recall Collins blasting Ann in the press. He just lamented how he wish he could’ve done the song. I really don’t know what Oscar producers were thinking. Ray Parker and Deniece Williams performed their nominated songs, and they were lesser known than Collins at this point.

Collins probably pissed some bigwig off and Against All Odds at the Oscars was mean to be his comeuppance.

Phil Collins was so overjoyed when “Against All Odds” got nominated for an Academy Award in 1985 that he re-routed his Australian tour so he could fly in to attend the event. The song was his first Number One in America and he was thrilled to have to chance to perform it at the Oscars in front of a worldwide audience of millions. Then he got the bad news: The Academy wasn’t going to let him sing it at the 57th Annual Academy Awards, offering the dubious argument that this was a movie event and thus only movie people would perform. Even though he was one of the biggest stars in the world at this point and would be in the audience, eager to play, he’d have to sit there and watch dancer Ann Reinking deliver the tune.

He walked into the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion with his head high, telling reporters on the red carpet that he looked forward to seeing Reinking’s take on the song. Then the show started. Not only was Deniece Williams allowed to sing “Let’s Hear It For The Boy” from Footloose, but Ray Parker Jr. was permitted to sing “Ghostbusters.” He sat in his chair and stewed, and his anger only grew when he saw Reinking lip sync part of the song as she did a ridiculous, cheesy dance with a male partner. Stevie Wonder won the Best Song Award for “I Just Called to Say I Love You,” and when Rolling Stone caught up with Collins the next morning he was still fuming.

It was awful,” he said of Reinking’s performance. “But I’m glad I didn’t sing the song now, after what they did to Ray Parker.” He then turned his attention to Stevie Wonder. “He is one of my heroes, but I have serious doubts about whether or not that song was actually written for the film,” he said, before offering an explanation for why Wonder won that he probably regrets: “He’s blind, black, lives in L.A. and does a lot for human rights.”

If it wasn’t for the infamous Rob Lowe/Snow White dance number four years later, the “Against All Odds” debacle would probably have gone down in history as the most cringe-inducing Oscar moment of the 1980s. Luckily for Phil, he finally got his Best Original Song Academy Award in 2000 for “You’ll Be in My Heart” from Tarzan, and they even let him sing it. Unluckily for Phil, it happened to go up against “Blame Canada” from South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut. Trey Parker and Matt Stone, who showed up to the broadcast high on LSD, didn’t love losing to Collins and proceeded to mock him mercilessly on the show. Poor Phil. That guy just can’t win.

She didn't lipsync as she danced. And the dancing wasn't the cheesy part. The dreadful vocal was.

[Quote] “He’s blind, black, lives in L.A. and does a lot for human rights.”

He'd be cancelled today.

“So if you’re looking for your big breakout single, you might want to put your bid on this one, ladies and gentleman. Because we are talking to Phil Collins’ people, right? But then again...aren’t we all?

He did become deeply unfashionable. I hear young people (teens) praise him. That age group love the 1980s and 1990s.

Leland killed Laura Palmer.

[quote]I don’t recall Collins blasting Ann in the press. He just lamented how he wish he could’ve done the son

Phil was touring during that period, and he would introduce Against All Odds in concert by making a crack about how he was going to sing it in Ann's place.

Even in the clip at R170, Carson asks him if he's tired with discussing the oscars debacle. And that interview was in July of 85.

I don't think Phil was overly outraged either. But he milked it in the press, probably because it no doubt helped with promoting his solo album as well.

Cher was actually the original choice to do Against All Odds on the show, but she turned the producers down.

I saw both All That Jazz and Star 80 recently. ATJ is dazzling; personally, I think it’s Fosse's masterpiece. Star 80 is as well done as I remember it being, but boy, is it an unpleasant experience. One of those really good movies I never want to see again.

R213, there was a VO while she danced and one thing everyone wants to know is how she could have gotten the lyrics wrong when they were prerecorded,.

Phil Collins is a fking cunt and he doesn't deserve any space in this thread. If I wanted to discuss Phil Collins (and I never would BTW) I would go to a Phil Collins thread. There's a reason there aren't any.. He is an insufferable twat and his music is pure dreck.

^^ #SayItSister!

ALL THAT JAZZ is receiving the stage musical treatment. The score is being written by Phil Collins.

Omg r223 ...bring me the big knife!!!

And Donna McKechnie has been tapped to choreograph.

Madame Hall Monitor at r221 HAS SPOKEN!

No, you've got it wrong. They're doing a stage musical of Against All Odds and Annie is choreographing and starring.

Could M play the Leland Palmer role, with Donna Murphy singing from backstage?

Lindsay Mendez will play the Leland Palmer role. Andrew Keenan Bolger as Gideon.

Is Daisy Eagan too old to play the daughter?

The audience would be far away... and she’s short, right?

R201, former models Susan Blakely and Jessica Lange were in Warren Robertson's acting class together, and it was when Blakely and another student read lines of dialogue between Frances and her mother from "Will There Really Be a Morning?" that Lange sat up and took notice. She looked into taking "Will There Really Be a Morning?" to the big screen, but Charles Bronson already owned the rights and was trying to produce it as a vehicle for his wife Jill Ireland.

Lange went to Bob Fosse and Bob Rafelson to get them to do the Frances movie biopic, but neither were interested. Eventually, Graeme Clifford, "The Postman Always Rings Twice" editor, landed the "Frances" directing gig and thought Lange would be perfect for the part.

Fosse would've perfected "Frances." As it is, it is a deeply flawed movie.

Random: Marathon Man is probably the one movie from 70s NYC that doesn't actually glamorize the city's grittiness. The whole time I was watching it, I kept thinking "these NYC apartments look filthy and so do the streets". Of course, there are loads of movies from that time period that show NYC as being gritty but they end up glamorizing it in a way. Marathon Man is the one movie that makes me feel grossed out by it.

[quote]R231 Fosse would've perfected "Frances." As it is, it is a deeply flawed movie.

OMG... Fosse doing FRANCES brings up the worst images possible : (

Just No!

The "Frances" movie with Jessica Lange was ridiculous. It featured her then lover Sam Shepard as "Harry", a totally fictitious character who keeps popping up throughout the movie to rescue Frances from her predicaments. He begs her to marry him, but she bewilderingly always turns him down. There was no "Harry" in France Farmer's life. If only there had been.

I also can never get through Frances. The dialogue is so wooden and it’s poorly made.

R234, "Harry York" was based on Stewart Jacobson, a Seattle-based detective and political radical who claimed to have been Frances Farmer's lover, but people who knew Frances never knew or heard of such an affair. "Frances" was also originally based on William Arnold's bio "Shadowland," which had many dubious claims, and Arnold later admitted that many parts were fictionalized. The book is now categorized as a "biographical novel."

With production design by Richard Sylbert and costumes by Patricia Norris, I’d hardly call it “poorly made”.

Actual dress on Farmer:

Good grief. STFU Matt

I, too, think Scheider and ATJ should've won the Oscar over Hoffman and Kramer vs Kramer. And Hoffman should've won later for "Tootsie." Looking back at the Oscar noms that year, I'm surprised Streep's fellow nom was Candice Bergen, who never really was a strong movie actress.

The real Frances Farmer was extremely beautiful and gifted. She had the requisite theatricality movies demanded back then, but there’s also something natural and impulsive about her acting style.

It’s strange she didn’t have more big films (I think only RHYTHM ON THE RANGE and SON OF FURY were big hits) but that was because of a combination of factors. Including her offscreen personality. And the fact that Paramount made a lot of lightweight fare. (She might have been better suited to Warner Bros.)

[quote]R241 I'm surprised Streep's fellow nom was Candice Bergen, who never really was a strong movie actress.

Frances Farmer did Flowing Gold at Warner Bros. I think her old Group Theatre pal John Garfield got her cast opposite him.

[Quote] Frances Farmer did Flowing Gold

Only gold?

Star 80 is such a grim film. Even some of the critics who raved about it said it was difficult to get through. Fosse sequenced it in such a way that there's a pall of dread over all of it. Great performances, but it's not surprising that it got overlooked by the oscars.

I don’t mind that STAR 80 has a sense of dread about it - it’s just unvaried.

Another Frances Farmer scene. She’s so beautiful.

And that deep, assured voice...

Attenborough turned down Madonna for ACL (who auditioned at Royale theater), but hired Audrey Landers who like her sister was barely a mover, and certainly not a dancer. Best one could say about either of the Landers women was that their skirts covered likely greatest "asset" either of them had besides physical beauty.

Considering what a CF and disaster ACL film turned out to be could Madonna have made things any worse?

Audrey could act. Not something one could ever accuse Madonna of.

[quote]R250 Audrey could act.

Where is her Phaedra? Her Ophelia? Her Sabrina Duncan?

It is funny to watch A Chorus Line and notice how Audrey Landers pops in and out of dance numbers. When it got too hard she's just not there. Even at the end of one of the numbers when they go back to their poses she is just left missing.

Madonna auditioned for Val or Cassie?

(She looks like she's wearing a Val costume in the Hung Up video.)

A Chorus Line was a bad film. I haven't seen it recently so I don't know if it's even worse than I remember.

Audrey isn't a bad actress. She was good on Dallas. But I remember she was not seen in the complex dance numbers.

I don't think Madonna would have been bad.

Has there been any mention of the burlesque dancer making the young Joe cum in his pants and the wet spot on his trousers? That was definitely an eye opening experience to 14 year old me.

There was a calendar put out at the time of the release. In one of the photos Audrey has the wrong foot forward compared to everyone else. Don't know how they let that slip by.

[quote] Has there been any mention of the burlesque dancer making the young Joe cum in his pants

I think you mean K.C. Townsend. She puts me in mind of Blaze Starr.

Broadway World says.....

Speaking of Broadway, why has All That Jazz never been adapted for the stage? I assume the daughter must own the rights and if she could get that limited run series done this would seem like a no brainer? In fact she should have launched them simultaneously, it would have had great synergy.

I know I’ll get hated for this, but I always found Scheider miscast. He’s a boring actor and ATJ is basically a one-hander plot-wise. I think if Alan Bates or Jack Nicholson had done the role, the film would’ve won Best Picture and would probably have gone down as a classic for a wider audience.

They're both great actors, but I'm not sure Bates or Nicholson were svelte enough. As others have mentioned, Scheider actually looked like he had a dancer's physique, and was eminently believable as a choreographer/Fosse surrogate (I know Fosse claimed Joe Gideon wasn't "him," but c'mon). I think the movie was destined to be more of a cult item regardless of who the lead actor was. There are people who will always find it a self-indulgent, excessive ego trip, or who simply aren't interested in the universe it inhabits. (Though having watched it again recently I found it irresistible, with one of the most perfectly sustained/realized/edited intros ever.)

Fosse was not a star (star director is a different thing). It would have been a mistake to cast stars, true stars like Alan Bates or Jack Nicholson, as Joe Gideon. Roy Scheider was not a true star (The star of JAWS is the fuckin' shark). He was the right choice.

I think it could’ve reached a wider audience if they took out a lot of the finale. It has some great moments and “Bye Bye Love” is perfect and should’ve remained intact, but it really, really drags during the hospital sequence. I think people would’ve been more forgiving of its narcissism if they avoided this excess.

You're welcome!

More

For those that didn't see what I did there.... Michael Bennett originally suggested ACL film be done as a movie showing the audition process for the film; sort of a twist on the stage version of ACL. That suggestion was turned down flat by the suits, so MB walked (among other reasons).

Fast forward and Bob Avian has the idea to do a documentary of just that, and the rest as they say is history.

Every Little Step and intro to ATJ are better reflections of the reality of a cattle call for dancers.

Jack Nicholson excels at playing conceited, arrogant pricks, and God knows there are plenty of choreographers who fit that bill, but role of Gideon was more complex. Cannot see JN pulling it off for a number of reasons. First and foremost his body and looks were just all wrong to remotely be a dancer.

Some of the dancers in film ACL:

Nicole Fosse (Kristine) is daughter of Bob Fosse and Gwen Verdon

Tony Fields (Al) was a Solid Gold dancer, and also danced in Michael Jackson's Thriller video.

Terrence Mann (Larry) performed as Rum Tum Tugger in Cats, Inspector Javert in Les Misérables, and the Beast in Disney’s Beauty and the Beast. Latter two roles earned him two Tony nominations for best actor in a leading role.

The star system is just another excuse to rationalize miscasting.

I agree that the last half-hour or so of AtJ really drags. If they'd tightened up the ending, it would be a delight all the way through.

Every Little Step was a total piece of shit. It did show that just because Bennett said he wanted to do something doesn't mean it was a good idea.

[quote] Every Little Step was a total piece of shit. It did show that just because Bennett said he wanted to do something doesn't mean it was a good idea.

A Chorus Line is one of the greatest musicals ever produced. That's not opinion, it's actually fact. You're an idiot.

And the documentary is fantastic. The filmmakers were able to negotiate something that had never been allowed before (or since) and that was getting into the room with cameras during auditions. It's a fascinating, compelling piece of work.

I wanted Natascha Whatserface to get the part. She would probably have been fired but there would be a good story around it, no doubt.

R271, who said anything about ACL, you caftaned moron? I was referring to the documentary which was stupid, staged and still boring. Even all the drama they manufactured couldn't make it interesting. It was also a BO flop. Bennett was a Broadway great but that doesn't mean everything he said or suggested was brilliant. ELS is already forgotten and ACL has not shown its longevity.

[quote] [R271], who said anything about ACL, you caftaned moron? I was referring to the documentary which was stupid, staged and still boring. Even all the drama they manufactured couldn't make it interesting. It was also a BO flop. Bennett was a Broadway great but that doesn't mean everything he said or suggested was brilliant. ELS is already forgotten and ACL has not shown its longevity.

You said- [quote] Every Little Step was a total piece of shit. It did show that just because Bennett said he wanted to do something doesn't mean it was a good idea.

WTF did Bennett have to do with Every Little Step other than it being about him? He's been dead for 33 years. Either you were referring to ACL when you said "Just because Bennett said he wanted to do something doesn't mean it was a good idea" or you somehow think he made the documentary, too. Which makes you an even bigger idiot than I initially gauged.

The first half of the documentary about Miss Saigon (which also features Bob Avian) is devoted exclusively to the casting process, most notably, the casting of Kim. It's obviously not as meta as ELS and it reeks of promotion, but it's still fairly interesting.

Most documentaries are "flops." I doubt there were lines around the corner for the "Company" documentary.

Also- box office for Every Little Step. Not at all a flop. For a documentary, this is a very healthy gross.

R2875, sorry moron. The argument stemmed from the fact that Bennett said that dancers auditioning for the movie version of ACL was what he was going to do in the movie of ACL. So the concept of ELT is Bennett's concept. Get it? Now go refresh your batteries on your dildo.

Of course, they conveniently neglected to mention the fact that the actress they cast as Cassie was married to the guy who played Larry in the movie.

Would anyone have cared?

The Pennebaker documentary on the Company OBC recording was a PBS presentation. His other documentaries on Hendrix, Monterey Pop, etc. were of much greater public interest and were released commercially.

Thanks, r281.

[quote] [R2875], sorry moron. The argument stemmed from the fact that Bennett said that dancers auditioning for the movie version of ACL was what he was going to do in the movie of ACL. So the concept of ELT is Bennett's concept. Get it? Now go refresh your batteries on your dildo.

Wow, did you lose that argument and badly, too. Stop digging. You're about to hit China.

R283, and what's your argument again? Bennett's connection to ELS was just made and it's a lousy concept. You clearly didn't know that and just kept posting. I see you offered no rebuttal, so your move, idiot.

Every Little Step was a huge hit for Bobby Brown in 1989. LOVE IT!

Is this thread even about [italic]All That Jazz[/italic] anymore?

Did anyone see Vicki Frederick's lady wrestling movie? It doesn't seem what would become a legend most...

AHEM...we all know you desperately campaigned for the role, Kat. Probably sucked every cock in sight! So shut your goddamn (bottomless) vodka hole.

We desperately need more Vicki Frederick. I bet she’s still thin.

[quote]Is this thread even about All That Jazz anymore?

It's now about all that jazz...

It’s now about that fat, alcoholic Kat Turner hating on Vic Frederick.

I know what this thread needs: more Jessica Lange!

Is the woman at r291 a beauty? I've never thought so.

I don't know what it is but something about All that Jazz felt really cold to me the first time I watched it. I bought it on blu-ray recently and watched it and loved it this time around. I appreciate the editing and Scheider's performance so much more. Jack Nicholson would have been awful in this part. He would play it too smugly.

R291 I've never heard of her.

Did you know Vicki Frederick beat out Kathleen Turner for that role in All the Marbles. It may have helped she was dating the head of the studio at that time.

[italic]Coincidence?[/italic]

I think not.

Vicki is something of a mess in this performance during the "A chorus of Cassies" section. Wasn't she a heavy smoker? I guess it was catching up to her.

Is this PIPPIN?

Vick, Roy, and...?

Scheider nailed it, I'm so glad Fosse couldn't pull in a bigger name.

Dreyfuss would have been pushy and obnoxious and Nicholson would have been smug, and both would have been too pudgy for a dancer on dexedrine. Scheider nailed the feeling of being out of his own control, something very difficult for an actor to express without ever saying it. There was something sad and overwhelmed under the cool surface, something that didnt understand why he couldn't say "no" to the excesses that were killing him.

Can we talk about my scenes that ended up on the cutting room floor?

Who did Hags play? What was her storyline?

Who likes short shorts?

I'm so glad Julie Hagerty wound up on the cutting room floor. She's a terrible, one-note actress who has somehow sustained a 40 year on and off career with only two (not-so-appealing) qualities, a deer in the headlights stare and a cloying baby voice. The only time she's ever been able to drop either was in Lost in America, and that was 35 long years ago.

Imagine her and Carol Kane standing at either end of a piano, each pounding a single key over and over, and you'll get an idea of their careers.

R304 Carol Kane is totally that profile, but if you didn’t see her in Prime’s The Hunters you are missing her best performance ever. It is revelation and I really wish she would have gotten some Emmy love from it, but I guess there still time for other accolades like Golden Globes.

[quote] I know what this thread needs: more Jessica Lange!

By your command.

R298, that photo is from DANCIN'.

Vicki did the Trombone solo on Broadway and then replaced Ann and did the Trumpet solo in the first national tour. She was reportedly heavy into cocaine as well, but a lot of the original Dancin' cast was. She was on Happy Days and played a Farmer's Daughter who just happens to dance. Her first few flicks of her head are definitely reminiscent of the Trumpet solo. She played opposite Raquel Welch on Mork and Mindy and Welch was said to have been jealous of her.

Although I was enamored of the two male dancers doing their gay mini-duet, I had the hots for the one straight guy, "Autumn," played by Leland Schwantes.

Linked is his Facebook page. He's still making dances, playing elder roles like Drosselmeyer in 'The Nutcracker.'

(Stupid DL refuses to link to his Facebook page, but you can find him there; here's the full number on YouTube:)

This Jack Mitchell nude photo of Leland Schwantes can be yours for a mere $1,750!

Why single out Star 80? Fosse's last four movies all end on a grim note: Cabaret, Lenny, All That Jazz and Star 80.

You mean ALL his movies except for Sweet Charity?

Hi Meryl at r292!

The infamous number.

Sweet Charity's ending isn't really happy, despite the schmaltzy final freeze-frame. Charity is broke and deserted by her fiance. She'll have to go back to being a taxi dancer/soft hooker until she's too old to make money at it anymore (which will be soon). She'll probably wind up a bag lady.

She might join the convent.

"All That Jazz" is the name of the 1988 debut album by the British group Breathe. Hits included "Hands to Heaven", "Don't Tell Me Lies", and "How Can I Fall".

R315, Charity won't go straight from taxi dancer to bag lady, she'll marry some asshole who treats her like dirt, and be grateful for the chance to be some goon's slavey and punching bag. He'll punish her for her past whenever he feels like taking out his temper on anyone, and she'll think that she deserves it. After the divorce she'll end up working in a factory or waiting tables to support her kids, and she'll actually miss the good old days of being a glamorous "dancer" in New York.

A good-looking woman who lets men treat her like dirt can generally find someone.

She'll go into porn.

I too was thinking of Dolly/Helen. After all she DID work with Fosse.

In depth article on Our Helen/Dolly

Helen's unusual points might have come in handy in the Airotica number.

Helen right under Elaine Stritch in the playbill for PAL JOEY (1951)

So raise your hands to heaven and pray...that we'll be back together someday...

Thanks to R317, I've been on a "Breathe" binge!

How can I fall, how can I fall when you just won't give me reason...

With or without Joe directing it, how long do you think the show he was directing would have run anyway? I give it 500 performances tops.

Since Joe was essentially directing "Chicago" circa 1976, 936 performances.