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Were the satanists in Rosemary's Baby supposed to be Jewish?

They all acted sterotypically Jewish, especially the Ruth Gordon character and the Judas-like Dr. Saperstein. I also recall dialogue where Rosemary is mildly scorned for her schoolgirl Catholicism. The book was written by a Jewish man though (Ira Levin), so that makes me question if the theme was anti-semitic.

by Anonymousreply 11212/03/2017

huh?

by Anonymousreply 112/11/2013

nobody else noticed this?

by Anonymousreply 212/12/2013

Yes OP, Levin & Polanski (both Jews) were likely having fun with the old antisemitic trope of Jews wanting Christian babies for rituals.

by Anonymousreply 312/12/2013

Only Dr. Sapirstein. That was the surprise as he was Jewish and part of it.

by Anonymousreply 412/12/2013

Interesting you should mention this.

I've always also wondered if Dustin Hoffman's family in "The Graduate" was supposed to be Jewish, and that is one reason why the Robinsons ("Rabinowitz" ?) wanted Elaine to marry that stereotypical uber-WASP frat guy instead of "Benjamin". Anti-semitism or Jewish self-hatred?

We are talking about the late 1960's and the directors of both movies were European-born Jews who escaped from the Nazis.

by Anonymousreply 512/12/2013

Yes, there are WASP-Jewish tensions in The Graduate

Per IMDB:

"Mike Nichols realized one reason why he had so much difficulty casting for Benjamin Braddock when he read the Mad Magazine parody of his film. One of the jokes was Benjamin asking his parents why he was Jewish and they were not, and Nichols, who is Jewish himself, realized that his film had an subconsciously autobiographical element about being an ethnic outsider in a privileged WASPish society."

by Anonymousreply 612/12/2013

Yes, the satanists were intended to represent elitists, money, hollywood depicted in the film. We all know Jews run all of that.

by Anonymousreply 712/12/2013

In New York, everyone is named Sapirstein.

by Anonymousreply 812/12/2013

Ira Levin took the old European blood libel "Jews kidnap Christian babies and use the baby's blood in rituals" and said, "Hey, what if this were to actually happen?" Of course, he couldn't make the bad guys Jews, so he made them witches. And he couldn't let the baby be killed, so he made him the son of satan.

by Anonymousreply 912/12/2013

So in other words, Levin wasn't influenced by that at all.

by Anonymousreply 1012/12/2013

R5, this article will interest you.

by Anonymousreply 1112/12/2013

Hey! I was an IRISH Satanist!

A Lesbian Irish Satanist.

by Anonymousreply 1212/12/2013

But what about AFTER Rosemary decides to be a mother to little satan?

What is she going to tell her friends? Elise and those other bitches? She can't tell them the baby died. She can't introduce them to the baby because the baby has a wolfy face and cloven hooves instead of hands and feet. Rosemary can't send him to preschool or kindergarten. She'll have to homeschool him and never let anyone see him except satanists.

What about when he's a teenager and his hormones get going? He's going to want to date and get laid, but he's got a problem. While most kids his age are obsessing over zits, he'll literally be "horn-y."

Things don't look so good for this kid.

by Anonymousreply 1312/12/2013

No, Umpy.

by Anonymousreply 1412/12/2013

Typical flyover ignorance. They didn't "act Jewish"- they acted like New Yorkers.

And Polanski's mother was Roman Catholic.

by Anonymousreply 1512/12/2013

r13, they already announced to everyone including Rosemary that the baby was still born. Levin's sequel "Son of Rosemary" alludes to the spawn's childhood, who was basically home-schooled (or Bramford-schooled if you wish) in his early years, presumably until he learned to control his budding horns and furnace eyes.

by Anonymousreply 1612/12/2013

[quote]Typical flyover ignorance. They didn't "act Jewish"- they acted like New Yorkers.

Exactly. They were just old New Yorkers.

But Levin was still having fun with the "Jews eat Christian babies" thing.

by Anonymousreply 1712/12/2013

Although in the novel, Minnie Castavet is supposed to be a sturdy, no-nonsense woman from the Midwest. With a braying Midwest accent and straightforward manner.

Ruth Gordon got some of that down but made the part totally hers.

by Anonymousreply 1812/12/2013

Bullshit, R15. They acted like old New Yorkers of a certain ethnicity. They did not act like Waspy Thurston Howell III New Yorkers.

by Anonymousreply 1912/12/2013

Is the novel worth reading?

by Anonymousreply 2012/12/2013

[quote]Bullshit, [R15]. They acted like old New Yorkers of a certain ethnicity. They did not act like Waspy Thurston Howell III New Yorkers.

Oh God. Seriously?

They acted like working or middle class, born and bred New Yorkers from a certain era, from whatever ethnicity. The War Generation.

The Bunkers acted like that too and we know they weren't Jewish.

by Anonymousreply 2112/12/2013

[quote]Is the novel worth reading?

I think so. The film is a fairly faithful translation of the book, but there are a few odd tid bits you can pick that the movie doesn't include.

by Anonymousreply 2212/12/2013

There is not such thing as waspy New Yorkers unless their transplants. Even if they are technically wasps if their truly New Yorkers they act different from wasps elsewhere.

by Anonymousreply 2312/12/2013

Let's see--the members of the coven are:

*Roman Castevet (real name: Steven Marcato--and "Marcato" is an Italian surname)

*Minnie Castevet (who is said to be from the Midwest)

*Dr. Sapirstein

*Dr. Shand (played by the Jewish character actor Phil Leeds)

*Mrs. Gilmore (played by the very WASPy Hope Summers)

*Laura-Louise (not a Jewish name at all, and played by the Irish-American Patsy Kelly)

In addition, the visitors to view the baby at the end are:

*the Japanese photographer

*Argyron Stavropoulos, a wealthy Greek whose last name is Greek Orthodox ("Stavros" means "cross")

I would say its pretty unlikely anyone in that group was intended as Jewish except for Drs. Sapirstein and Shand.

by Anonymousreply 2412/12/2013

[quote]There is not such thing as waspy New Yorkers unless their transplants.

How ignorant are you? Good Lord.

Ever hear of the Schermerhorns, the Roosevelts, the van Renssalaers, the van Cortlandts, the Schuylers, the Dyckmans, the Livingstons, the Astors, the Fishes, the Hamiltons?

The founding families of New York were all Dutch Protestant or English Protestant.

by Anonymousreply 2512/12/2013

If you read the book, it pretty much gives the address of the Bramford which is actually not based upon the Dakota but the Wyoming, right in Midtown at 57th and Seventh.

by Anonymousreply 2612/12/2013

Maybe they were those, wha' da ya call it, Crypto-Jews that escaped Spain on the Mayflower during the Acquisition.

by Anonymousreply 2712/12/2013

Hullo! Dr. Saperstein?? The Upper West Side?? Duh!!!

by Anonymousreply 2812/12/2013

Actually it was just Ruth Gordon who was doing the typical Noo Yawka. Sidney Blackmer (a native of Salisbury, NC- my dad's hometown) behaved more erudite and spoke in the Mid-Atlantic accent taught to all the old-timey Hollwood actors.

I guess Castevet being a world traveller explained that?

by Anonymousreply 2912/12/2013

I was British and defintely not Jewish.

by Anonymousreply 3012/12/2013

On another note the male lead was GORGEOUS. Sexy, stunning, masculine, god I love New York men.

by Anonymousreply 3112/12/2013

Is Rosemary's Baby worth re-watching? I watched it when I was a kid and I thought it was good but don't remember that much of it. Does it stand the test of time?

by Anonymousreply 3212/12/2013

It's one of my favorite movies, not just favorite horror movies, and I think it holds up very well, but you'll have to rewatch it and see for yourself.

by Anonymousreply 3312/12/2013

some were Japanese so I guess, no, they weren't all Jewish

by Anonymousreply 3412/12/2013

Something missing from the movie is the fact that Rosemary is a bit alienated from her family. She's from a large Irish Catholic family in Omaha. She moved to NYC, which is something irish Catholic girls from large families didn't often do. She married Guy, a non-Catholic, which did not please her family at all. She does not attend mass, which upsets her mother. Her siblings all have children.

Rosemary is a bit of a rebel, but not enough of one. She's a few years shy of women's lib.

by Anonymousreply 3512/12/2013

What is the name and painter of that creepy ass painting in the secret hallway? Really ugly witches in it.

by Anonymousreply 3612/12/2013

[quote] And Polanski's mother was Roman Catholic.

Really? That's why they gassed her at Auschwitz?

by Anonymousreply 3712/12/2013

The movie is definitely worth a rewatch. It's horror- not in the blood spattering way- but it's insidious. it creeps up on you. The dream sequence, augmented only by the sound of wind is disturbing.

But it's the fact that Rosemary is all alone and realizing little by little that she cannot trust anybody that's the real terror.

Justw atch the amazing phone booth sequence done in one take and try not to start feeling paranoid yourself.

by Anonymousreply 3812/13/2013

It's one of my all-time favorite movies. So brilliantly and cleverly done. So many layers so much meaning. I can watch it over and over. And it's just fascinating to look at from a visual perspective as well. NY in the 60s! The clothes! The hair! That apartment! The delicious John Cassavetes!

R35 is right. That's one of the bits left out of the movie. Rosemary is seen by her family as a bit uppity and rebelious for leaving Omaha and going to to New York. There's a part where she shares an apartment with some girls and the friends she made in college.

There's also a fairly important part in the book that didn't make it to the movie. It describes a period where Rosemary and Guy aren't getting along and Rosemary goes by herself to some remote cottage to think about their marriage and whether or not she wants to stay married to Guy. She does eventually go back and then all the witchcraft stuff starts.

The movie alludes to difficulty in the marriage when Guy is busy and distracted by his newly successful career. He solves the problem by finally agreeing to have a baby. Satan's baby.

by Anonymousreply 3912/13/2013

R39 the part about Ro thinking about leaving the marriage is important because Rosemary's Baby is essentially a movie about an abusive marriage.

by Anonymousreply 4012/13/2013

"She's very nosy. Do you know she actually asked the prices of things?"

by Anonymousreply 4112/14/2013

I think so because the novel is a take on the New Testament story (where Jews are the villains) - only in reverse. Suppose the devil, instead of god, rapes a woman to have the perfect human-god (or human-demon in this case)?

by Anonymousreply 4212/14/2013

You flyover idiots see what you want to see.

by Anonymousreply 4312/14/2013

wow, R42, I hadn't thought of that. It's a subversive Christ story.

by Anonymousreply 4412/14/2013

R44 and Rosemary is a Catholic which is the equivalent to Mary being a virgin as in the bible, or at least in the right spiritual sphere for the 20th Century.

by Anonymousreply 4512/14/2013

Catholics love to look for religious symbolism (or counter-symbolism?) in Rosemary's Baby, but the truth is that Levin and Polanski were both secular Jews, and Rosemary's Baby is about a destructive marriage.

A real Catholic horror film is "The Exorcist."

by Anonymousreply 4612/14/2013

Oh, and secular Jews don't create critiques of the prevailing Gentile cullture?

by Anonymousreply 4712/14/2013

They may, but this is not one of them.

by Anonymousreply 4812/14/2013

Well, I think RB is more about subverting a Christian fairy tale than it is about an abusive marriage.

by Anonymousreply 4912/14/2013

Then you are wrong.

by Anonymousreply 5012/14/2013

I thought it was decided that RB was a women's liberation story.

by Anonymousreply 5112/14/2013

Women's liberation?? It's a backlash movie.

R44, you're JUST realizing that???

by Anonymousreply 5212/14/2013

It's the inverse of the Christ story in the New Testament. Duh!

When i'm feeling particular subversive I will watch it on Christmas Eve. While most of the rest of the world is celebrating the arrival of you-know-who, I'm watching Rosemary give birth to His Antithesis.

by Anonymousreply 5312/14/2013

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 5404/16/2014

It's unfortunate that they confuse Satanists with Wiccans.

by Anonymousreply 5504/16/2014

Patsy Kelly - you're in Rosemary's belly!

by Anonymousreply 5604/16/2014

But there were several flaws, like the Lina Wertmuller film in "An Unmarried Woman." Neither before or since have I ever heard the word "under taste." What innocent young wife from the Midwest would ever use that word? She would say "It taste funny," or "It tastes like chalk," not "There is an under taste." Gimme a breaks! If you query under taste on google, you'll find practically no other references to it other than RB.

And why didn't John Cassavetes play a pretentious film director that The New York Times and Mike Nichols were enamored of instead of a struggling actor?

by Anonymousreply 5704/16/2014

I read somewhere that it was about the upper-middle class giving birth to the counter-culture that really wanted to destroy it. Anyone read the same? Thoughts?

by Anonymousreply 5804/16/2014

R58, very timely for that period of the sixties

by Anonymousreply 5904/16/2014

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 6004/16/2014

It's a good read. Very much like the film but a good read as is "The Stepford Wives" and "The Boys from Brazil."

by Anonymousreply 6104/16/2014

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 6204/16/2014

It's been years since I've read it, r60, but had I not known better I might have thought it was a novelistaion of the movie.

by Anonymousreply 6304/16/2014

OP is an anti-semitic

by Anonymousreply 6404/16/2014

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 6504/16/2014

R65 meet the OP you anti Semite

by Anonymousreply 6604/16/2014

Jews don't believe in Satan, so how can they be satanists?

by Anonymousreply 6704/16/2014

R67 ty

by Anonymousreply 6804/16/2014

Jews don't believe in Satan? Read the Book of Job in the Old Testament sometime r67.

by Anonymousreply 6904/16/2014

Cassavetes seemed like such a cool guy. Pity he died a bloated alcoholic when his liver failed.

by Anonymousreply 7004/16/2014

anti-Jewish bigotry and Jew hatred: entrenched, endemic....eternally au courant

by Anonymousreply 7104/16/2014

[quote]Is it darker in tone than the movie?

No. The movie is one of the most faithful adaptations ever made of a novel. The film captures the book's tone and intent with precision. Polanski later claimed that he was so naive at the time, he didn't know he was allowed to make changes from page to screen.

by Anonymousreply 7204/16/2014

R69

Jews do not believe in the Christian concept of Satan, just as they do not believe in the Christian concept of Hell.

The Book of Job mentions "HaSatan", the Satan, an Angel in G-d's service who is the embodiment of man's challenges.

by Anonymousreply 7304/16/2014

Aren't all New Yorkers Jewish?

by Anonymousreply 7404/17/2014

R74 yup

by Anonymousreply 7504/17/2014

[quote]Is Rosemary's Baby worth re-watching? I watched it when I was a kid and I thought it was good but don't remember that much of it. Does it stand the test of time?

No, R32.

I watched it for the first time just a month ago, and was astonished at how dull and tedious it was.

Of course, knowing the end beforehand didn't help, either.

It absolutely does NOT stand the test of time, imo.

by Anonymousreply 7604/17/2014

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 7704/17/2014

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 7804/17/2014

R77 r78 Yoo r both insane crazy and anti Semites

by Anonymousreply 7904/17/2014

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 8004/17/2014

^ you

by Anonymousreply 8104/17/2014

RB "gave birth" to all those paranoid '70's films about devil children, like "It's Alive", "Basket Case", etc.

Yuppies/Boomers weren't ready to give birth. But they got over it, obviously.

by Anonymousreply 8204/17/2014

ADAM: Fuck Satan!

EVE: I do.

ADAM: So do I.

EVE: You two bastards!

ADAM: TWO? Shouldn't that be THREE bastards?

by Anonymousreply 8304/17/2014

R76 is the dumbest fucking person on the planet.

Genius movie, basically perfect. The only things that don't hold up are incidental and unimportant. The drama/emotions, filmmaking technique and performances are timeless.

by Anonymousreply 8404/17/2014

No, the Satanists are supposed to represent the proponents of One World Government some of whom are Jews but many of whom are not.

by Anonymousreply 8504/18/2014

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 8610/12/2014

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 8710/15/2014

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 8812/26/2014

I heard the audio book...It's read by an elderly woman with that New York/Yiddish accent. Perfect for the audio, and it scared the hell out of me.

by Anonymousreply 8912/26/2014

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 9012/26/2014

[You do realize that this is a troll, right? It does not believe what it posts. It just craves attention. You might want to stop talking to it.]

by Anonymousreply 9112/26/2014

R88 is unbelievably stupid.

by Anonymousreply 9212/26/2014

[quote]Aren't all New Yorkers Jewish? by: Florida retirement homes

Either that, or they're Jews pretending to be Italian.

by Anonymousreply 9312/26/2014

[quote]A real Catholic horror film is "The Exorcist."

Or "The Sound of Music."

by Anonymousreply 9412/26/2014

Bump for this thread, which I referenced in the Armie Hammer thread because it was interesting.

I wish there was a paper written about the Jewishness of Rosemary's Baby or how Polanski's experiences as a persecuted Jew in the Holocaust may have influenced the film. This is all I could find.

by Anonymousreply 9512/03/2017

r95, it can't be a coincidence that Mia Farrow's physical appearance towards the end of the film mirrors a concentration camp prisoner. And we now there were pregnant women in those camps. Also, Polanski was obsessed with how Faye Dunaway's eyebrows had to look in Chinatown, because he based them on the way his mother did hers (his mother was taking off to one of the death camps when pregnant).

by Anonymousreply 9612/03/2017

Good question, OP.

by Anonymousreply 9712/03/2017

Peter Coyote who starred in Polanski's Bitter Moon is Jewish too and his character is clearly the antagonist of the film, corrupting an innocent French girl in a world of degeneracy. Polanski obviously based it on himself but at the same time, as a director, Polanski's sympathies were always with the women in his films. If he personified all the gross Jewish male characters in his movies in real life, it can be said that in his films, Polanski was always on the side of the women.

by Anonymousreply 9812/03/2017

r98, also, physically, Peter Coyote's character in Bitter Moon is stereotypically Jewish in the way a Nazi would have presented it, with the leering grin and the rotten teeth. Also, Kristin Scott Thomas' character looks like Dietrich and Emmanuelle Siegner looks like Garbo, who were the great Aryan goddesses of the 1930s. Polanski really was bringing up his own psyche here.

by Anonymousreply 9912/03/2017

[quote]If he personified all the gross Jewish male characters in his movies in real life, it can be said that in his films, Polanski was always on the side of the women.

That final observation is interesting because I was wondering why Rosemary's Baby so innately appeals to gay men.

by Anonymousreply 10012/03/2017

[quote][R95], it can't be a coincidence that Mia Farrow's physical appearance towards the end of the film mirrors a concentration camp prisoner.

Rosemary is described as a fairly solidly built Midwestern farm girl. They had originally wanted to cast Tuesday Weld.

by Anonymousreply 10112/03/2017

I think that is why some people are a little on the fence about Polanski and not so quick to condemn him, because if you actually study his filmography, the female roles are really amazing and he films them with sensitivity and understanding.

by Anonymousreply 10212/03/2017

Op Here we go again *rolls eyes*

by Anonymousreply 10312/03/2017

I wonder if Liza was ever considered for Rosemary Woodhouse.

“Doctor Shapershtein.”

by Anonymousreply 10412/03/2017

Alec d'Urbeville in Polanski's Tess was clearly Jewish in spirit... an insouciant heir to a fortune, and bearer of an old name that his father purchased ( a name that belongs to the peasant Tess by birthright), Alec becomes the nemesis and downfall of Tess’s life.

by Anonymousreply 10512/03/2017

The Coven symbolized Woody Allen.

by Anonymousreply 10612/03/2017

No, OP, but the Satanism in the film was a substitution for the Luciferianism practiced by real global elites.

Lucifer and Satan are not the same concepts. People who worship Lucifer pretty much hide in plain sight, which is part of the point of the story.

by Anonymousreply 10712/03/2017

R106 I know your joking but it reminds me of how Stanley Kubrick wanted the leader of the “coven” in Eyes Wide Shut to be played by Woody Allen. He eventually cast another Jewish actor/director, Sydney Pollack, in the role.

by Anonymousreply 10812/03/2017

[quote]the female roles are really amazing and he films them with sensitivity and understanding

Not really. It's a director's thing to have their female characters tormented, certainly in Europe

by Anonymousreply 10912/03/2017

There’s definitely a huge difference between the tormented women of Lars von Trier and the women of Roman Polanski.

by Anonymousreply 11012/03/2017

[quote]It's a director's thing to have their female characters tormented, certainly in Europe

In the USA they torment the actress instead by making her suck the director or producer's dick for parts and awards.

by Anonymousreply 11112/03/2017

r109, how many Polanski films have you seen though?

by Anonymousreply 11212/03/2017
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