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Details emerge of Dolphins teammates bullying Jonathan Martin, calling him ‘Big Weirdo’

You'd think that a group of grown men would be beyond bullying a co-worker, but that apparently wasn't the case in the Miami Dolphins' locker room.

Reports surfaced earlier this week of Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin slamming his food tray down in the cafeteria and leaving the team after his teammates got up when he went to sit with them. Not surprisingly, it wasn't just one incident that set Martin off.

Fox Sports reported on an "abusive environment" toward Martin during his season-and-a-half with the Dolphins. The report said there has been persistent bullying and teasing of him, including personal and family insults, and even an unflattering nickname of "Big Weirdo."

Seriously, these are grown men doing this to another grown man.

Martin was inactive for Thursday night's game against the Cincinnati Bengals, and there's no word on when he'll return to the Dolphins.

There is typically minor rookie hazing in the NFL but Fox Sports said this went beyond that for Martin, a 6-foot-5, 312-pound tackle who was Miami's second-round pick out of Stanford last year. Fox Sports' Alex Marvez wrote that it's believed the team knew about the bullying but didn't step in, and the team's veterans didn't step in either. The team didn't comment on whether they knew about the abusive environment.

You'd think that teammates would support one of their own, a player who had started every game at tackle this season before he left the team and missed Thursday night's game. Or that they would at very least act like adults and professionals. It sounds like that was too much to ask of the Dolphins players.

by Anonymousreply 19911/11/2013

He's hot..

Aside from that, the bullying must have been pretty bad and very abusive. These athlete guys are always smack talking and hazing one another. It's usually all in fun, but it seems as though they must have crossed the line here.

by Anonymousreply 111/01/2013

He's just probably a guy who can't handle a lot of teasing. Everyone handles it differently, and if they saw that it was getting to him they should have stopped.

And yeah, he is HOT!

by Anonymousreply 211/01/2013

I have a Red Weirdo for him!

by Anonymousreply 311/01/2013

Pack mentality. And of course there's no one on the team with the maturity, self-confidence, and leadership to call the others out on this BS, so it goes on unchecked.

by Anonymousreply 411/01/2013

What is their motivation? Why are they doing this? Not that it really matters I guess. It does seem hard to believe grown men would act this way. It sounds like something right out of high school.

by Anonymousreply 511/01/2013

Not at all surprised grown men act like this, especially in sports teams or any organization predominantly male.

by Anonymousreply 611/01/2013

WTF is wrong with people? Poor guy.

by Anonymousreply 711/01/2013

Is he gay?

by Anonymousreply 811/01/2013

I thought that women were the only ones who did that after a certain age.

by Anonymousreply 911/01/2013

I, too, would like to know why they bullied him. What did he do or say or be that they would call him "Big Weirdo"?

by Anonymousreply 1011/01/2013

Can a full grown adult really be bullied? This is the new peanut allergy. As soon as bullying hit it big you don't hear about allergies that much anymore.

by Anonymousreply 1111/01/2013

Hostile, toxic work environment.

by Anonymousreply 1211/01/2013

[quote]if they saw that it was getting to him they should have stopped.

That's not the way bullies work. If they know they're getting to you it just spurs them on.

I know we all think we wouldn't let such silliness get to us but I think if you're singled out from a group and everyone else is taking pot shots -- it can really affect and upset you.

by Anonymousreply 1311/01/2013

A lot of people would probably be shocked at what goes on among pro athletes, abuse-wise. Hazing is a very gentle term for what is actually hard core sexual harassment/assault, among other things.

by Anonymousreply 1411/01/2013

It is deplorable, hateful behaviour. This country will never change.

by Anonymousreply 1511/01/2013

Unfortunately, R16, it's behavior like that of these guys which usually leads to mass shootings, suicides, etc.

by Anonymousreply 1711/01/2013

Gay NFL player leaves Miami Dolphins due to bullying

by Anonymousreply 1811/01/2013

According to multiple reports, Miami Dolphins starting offensive tackle Jonathan Martin walked off the team due to constant teasing by teammates this week.

Multiple sources confirmed to that Martin left the team because his teammates bullied him for being different. The “O-line made fun of him and he snapped,” one source told

Martin’s teammates reportedly dubbed him “Big weirdo” and other names.

According to FOX Sports’ Joe Glazer, the last straw occurred when Martin’s teammates pulled a typical trick in the lunchroom: when the last team member sits down for lunch the other players stand up to leave. Martin’s teammates reportedly pulled the trick on him, causing him to snap and smash his lunch tray.

The team’s official explanation for Martin’s absence is he took time off to receive counseling and to spend time with his family.

But Martin seemed to dispute the team’s official statement. “Happy Halloween!” Martin wrote in a post on his Facebook page, “Don’t believe everything you read.”

While the team avoided questions about the abusive relationship between Martin and some of his teammates, other team sources reveal Martin left because he is gay and his teammates don’t like him.

If Martin really is gay, the behavior of his teammates is an indicator of the NFL’s intolerance of gay players in the locker room.

Martin, a Stanford standout, was a 2012 second-round pick of the Dolphins. He is the son of Harvard educated lawyers.

by Anonymousreply 1911/01/2013

We need to do something to the rest of the Dolphins then.

by Anonymousreply 2211/01/2013

If it weren't for football, most of these thugs would be in jail on felony charges.

And many already are, and will be.

by Anonymousreply 2311/02/2013

Just to get this out of the way-he's hot!

Back to the story...if it's true, I hope the team can use this bad publicity as a teaching moment. In 1 of the articles it said they pulled the familiar trick of everyone getting up and leaving when the last newbie to arrive sits down. Who knows if there have been other pranks. Personally, I don't like the idea of hazing, whether it's on a team or in a frat etc. You never know how people will react, and some don't take it as lightly as others. Now, if there have been more serious incidents going on, those need to be looked into.

by Anonymousreply 2411/02/2013

they're all a bunch of chidren.

I hope this hurts ticket sales.

fuck them all

by Anonymousreply 2511/02/2013

It's like the typical American work environment in all walks of life.

by Anonymousreply 2611/02/2013

He could have been bullied for being gay or perceived to be gay. He may have also been bullied because he probably has a much different background than many of his teammates and that make him "weird" to them.

by Anonymousreply 2711/02/2013

Don't believe that Sandra Rose item about him being gay. While it's certainly a possibility, there's so far no proof and that Sandra Rose website is known for making up all kinds of erroneous shit all the time.

by Anonymousreply 2811/02/2013

R29, you're correct. I think ass-holes who instigate them are unbalanced sociopaths and others who follow along are just glad it's not them being abused.

I'd always gravitate to the one guy who'd say, 'hey, knock it off!' and then I'd fall in love with him.

by Anonymousreply 3011/02/2013

[quote]Martin, a Stanford standout, was a 2012 second-round pick of the Dolphins. He is the son of Harvard educated lawyers.

I suspect there's some class and education issues going on too.

by Anonymousreply 3111/02/2013

6'5", 312 lbs. They really are bullies if they are messing with a dude that big.

by Anonymousreply 3311/02/2013

Yeah, apparently he was targeted because he openly loves to read and is an overt intellectual.

by Anonymousreply 3411/02/2013

I hope with the help from his harvard educated lawyer parents he sues the shit out of the Dolphin organization, coaches and players.

by Anonymousreply 3511/02/2013

Hazing and initiation rituals have always seemed to me to be homoerotic; so much of "bro" culture is basically about guys who want to fuck, but are also deathly afraid of admitting it, as in, they will kill the object of their attraction.

by Anonymousreply 3611/02/2013

Inbred Incognito will never play another game for the Miami Dolphins..... and quite possibly never play another game in the NFL.

by Anonymousreply 3711/04/2013

The perp is gorgeous. Totally my type. I don't agree with what he did, but he's sexy.

by Anonymousreply 3811/04/2013

Really, r38?

by Anonymousreply 3911/04/2013

Some have said adult men shouldn't be doing things like this. They aren't adult men, they are football players.

by Anonymousreply 4011/04/2013

Has it been confirmed that he is, in fact, NOT a big weirdo? I mean, what if he's actually a big weirdo?

by Anonymousreply 4111/04/2013

He doesn't have half a dozen kids with half a dozen different baby mamas and doesn't sleep with strippers or sports groupies.

Big Weirdo

by Anonymousreply 4211/04/2013

What R31 says. The moment I saw "Stanford" I came to that conclusion, too. Graeme Le Saux, who was a British soccer player, had the same issues. He read the Guardian and IIRC, he wore objectionable socks:

[quote]Against heterosexual players[edit] Graeme Le Saux, an England international left-back, endured homophobic taunts despite being married with children. The rumours allegedly began because of his “unladdish hobbies” which included antique collecting,[8] and his university background. He later admitted he had considered quitting the game because of the abuse and the humiliation he felt. One example of the public abuse he suffered came in a Premier League match between Chelsea and Liverpool on 27 February 1999, Le Saux became involved in a running series of taunts with Liverpool striker Robbie Fowler. With Le Saux preparing to take a free kick, Fowler repeatedly bent over and pointed his backside in the Chelsea player's direction. Despite the obvious taunts, Le Saux, who refused to take the free kick, was booked for delay of play.[10] Unseen by the match officials, Le Saux later struck Fowler on the edge of the Chelsea penalty area.[11] Both were later charged with misconduct by the FA.[12]

by Anonymousreply 4311/04/2013

[quote] Incognito was shifted to center during preseason camp in 2004; however, a series of off-field incidents culminated in his suspension before the 2004 season by the coaching staff. Soon after, he left the school and enrolled at the University of Oregon in late September. He never practiced with the team as he was cut for not meeting unspecified conditions after just a week on campus in Eugene.

[quote]He was waived on December 15, two days after committing two 15-yard personal foul penalties and engaging in a verbal confrontation with Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo during a 47–7 loss to the Tennessee Titans.[13] The two personal fouls led to a fine from the NFL and a letter from the NFL league office. He was fined $50,000 and told "Future infractions of the types you have committed may lead to increased disciplinary action up to and including suspension."[14] In four years with the Rams from 2006 to 2009, Incognito drew 38 penalties, including seven unnecessary roughness calls, more than any other player during that span.

He sounds like a delightful individual.

by Anonymousreply 4411/04/2013

Incognito has been suspended off the team, and this is really getting ugly. He is a real piece of work, and his messages to Martin are insane.

I think there is a couple of scenarios, one put forth by a friend.

1. The veterans were just getting greedy and asked for more and more money. The abuse and this was just too much for Martin. Martin seems to be a religious type, considering his twitter friends.

2. Martin is gay. Incognito knew this and knew he was not out, and leveraged this to get extortion money out of him and 15 grand is no chump change. Plus he knew he could dish out shit forever to this guy, so he thought.

3. Martin is straight, Incognito is gay. He is lashing out at everything knowing he will never have the guts to come out and is making life hell for everyone around him.

by Anonymousreply 4511/04/2013

Jesus. He knew this was being recorded.

[quote]"Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of s---. I saw you on Twitter, you been training 10 weeks. [I want to] s--- in your f---ing mouth. [I'm going to] slap your f---ing mouth. [I'm going to] slap your real mother across the face [laughter]. F--- you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."

by Anonymousreply 4611/04/2013

[quote]his messages to Martin are insane.

What messages? Link please. Thanks

by Anonymousreply 4711/04/2013

Found it. Yikes.

by Anonymousreply 4811/04/2013

A Miami reporter said that Martin is highly intelligent and somewhat socially awkward.

Those 2 traits sometimes go hand in hand.

by Anonymousreply 4911/04/2013

Surprise surprise that Incognito is from New Jersey. Anyway, he doesn't seem to be well-liked. I hope he's blacklisted. Look at this clip of his helmet getting ripped off after he was too aggressive with Antonio Smith:

by Anonymousreply 5011/04/2013

Well, to be honest R50, he grew up in Arizona, and resides in Douchebag central, Scottsdale, AZ.

by Anonymousreply 5111/04/2013

Sounds like a case of pulling on the kid's braid's in grade school to get their attention because you like them.

10 bucks says Incognito is gay and secretly wants Martin.

by Anonymousreply 5211/04/2013


[quote]Before being suspended, Incognito posted several tweets saying he wanted his name cleared.

[quote]"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth," Incognito tweeted, quoting Buddha.

by Anonymousreply 5311/04/2013

Sounds like Incognito is a flat-out fucking sociopath and other Dolphins were too weak/go-along to intervene. Or worse, some of them liked watching it happen. The ugly side of tribalism.

He targeted this guy psychologically more than physically. I mean, what kind of grown man leaves a co-worker hateful and evil voicemail messages like that? (re R46 transcript) That goes way way beyond so-called "harmless" hazing.

by Anonymousreply 5411/04/2013

Delusional cunt.

by Anonymousreply 5511/04/2013

Psycho. He admitted to having drug and alcohol problems while a Ram.

Miami Dolphins lineman Richie Incognito shouted the N-word ... in a shirtless rage ... during a crazy outing with teammates at a bar earlier this year -- and TMZ Sports has the footage.

The video was shot several months ago ... showing Richie running around Dirty Blondes -- a pool hall in Fort Lauderdale, FL.

As the video begins, Richie shouts, "Mike Pouncey, N**GA!!"

FYI -- Mike Pouncey is a member of the Dolphins and it looks like he's in the video. When Richie drops the N-bomb, it seems like he's announcing that Pouncey is in the bar.

In the footage, Incognito proceeds to stomp around the bar with his shirt off while patrons watch the lineman go berserk.

Incognito is under fire for allegedly harassing his teammate Jonathan Martin -- and calling him a "half-n**ger" in a voice mail.

Incognito has since been suspended by the team.

by Anonymousreply 5611/04/2013

Riley Cooper, Philadelphia Eagles, rightfully took a lot of heat a couple of months back from his team for yelling n--ger over and over again at a Kenny Chesney concert fight, SO.....

how did Incognito's teammates let him get away with this racial shit?

And, what's with the "real mother" crap he kept spouting?

by Anonymousreply 5711/04/2013

Why didn't the Dolphins do anything before this situation reached the tipping point?

by Anonymousreply 5811/04/2013

R58 It speaks to deeper problems with the Dolphins that nobody in that organization thought to say anything. That kind of asshole behavior is just seen by coaches and others as part of the "bonding" process.

by Anonymousreply 5911/04/2013

I hope Olivier Vernon was not involved in this, he is too sexy for all this drama!

by Anonymousreply 6011/04/2013

A lot of people in the NFL are acknowledging Incognito's actions were deplorable and his career may be over. (Hopefully.) Others, however, are condemning Martin for "tattling" rather than handling the situation himself and being a "man" about it. Mind you, the Martin critics are speaking anonymously to journalists. So much for manning up.

What was Martin supposed to do? It's that stupid mentality of handling bullying on one's own that has led to so many going over the edge and becoming violent or suicidal.

by Anonymousreply 6111/04/2013

"Others, however, are condemning Martin for "tattling" rather than handling the situation himself and being a "man" about it. "

Amazing. What a completely inane angle. The guy didn't even "tattle" per se. He just basically said fuck this and peaced out, like any self-repsecting person would. Probably walked out on some serious money too. Though I have a feeling his contract will be paid in full.

But mein gott, that Incognito looks like he has a couple extra chromosomes. And I'm sure the Dolphin brass must have been aware of this retard's antics. Martin should sue.

by Anonymousreply 6211/04/2013

Plug it up! Plug it up!

by Anonymousreply 6411/04/2013

People still call people "weirdos"?

It's so 70s.

by Anonymousreply 6511/04/2013

"[I want to] s--- in your f---ing mouth."

So he's into scat, then?

by Anonymousreply 6611/04/2013

"Plug it up! Plug it up!"

If only Martin could use his special powers to set the Dolphins locker room on fire...

by Anonymousreply 6711/04/2013

Deadspin is reporting that one particularly nasty poster making allegations against Martin on several web sites is believed to be Incognito's father. Here is what that poster is claiming:

Early this morning, a poster with the username "idrd1994" left an impassioned defense of Incognito on the FinHeaven message board. In it, he attacked both Martin and Mike Pouncey as "black brothers that do drugs on a regular basis," and asked readers to "pray [GM Jeff] Ireland and [coach Joe] Philbin die of AIDS." He blasts the team from top to bottom, claims Incognito is getting railroaded, and uses the "black people say the N-word in rap music" argument to dismiss claims that Incognito sent racial messages to Martin. He also implies that Martin has pondered suicide, and "does not belong in an NFL locker room."

by Anonymousreply 6811/04/2013

At least no one has been murdered..........yet. Football and the players have become disgusting thugs in general. Rape, murder and mayhem. What a culture.

by Anonymousreply 6911/04/2013

Incognito was also awarded #2 in the NFL's dirtiest players last year for obviously, playing dirty. Gouging players eyes, punching, doing nasty shit.

He's a fucking bully and needs to be canned. I'm sure he's got some sob story but fuck him.

He's just been allowed to get away with his asshole behavior because he's a football player.

by Anonymousreply 7011/04/2013

R68, I saw some pretty nasty things being said about Martin on various threads too. Everything from he needed to "man up" to "anyone defending Jonathan Martin is probably a bleeding-heart, Obama-supporting liberal." It's funny how people can take this situation, which is SO far removed from anything President Obama-related, and manage to include Obama in it. In fact, everytime I read the message boards below any big news story, Obama somehow manages to be mentioned. The right wingers could make a story about Hostess going out of business about the president.

by Anonymousreply 7111/04/2013

Incognito was all over twitter yesterday proclaiming his innocence and depending reporters retract their stories about him. He's quiet today now that he's suspended and in deep trouble with the league.

Don't forget, R69, even the Patriots overlooked the behavior of one of their star players in Aaron Hernandez. He's now accused of three (3!) murders.

by Anonymousreply 7211/04/2013

Here's Incognito, tits out, with Eric Wareheim and Aziz Ansari.

by Anonymousreply 7311/04/2013


by Anonymousreply 7411/04/2013

Incognito is a complete douche and will never work in football again. EVER. You cannot use those words and ever expect to work again. Take your 325 pound ass back to whatever shit kicking town you came from.

by Anonymousreply 7511/04/2013

This is a crazy fucking story.

Professional football is INSANE.

by Anonymousreply 7611/04/2013

Miami Dolphins management initially tried to play off the staying as just some good-natured razzing/hazing that one guy couldn't stomach. Then they heard the voicemails and saw the texts. Now they're privately saying Incognito will never play for them again.

Too little, too late, I say. The Dolphins fostered this culture of abuse then first tried to blame the victim. They shouldn't be allowed to plead ignorance. t hope they face penalties as well.

by Anonymousreply 7711/04/2013

He looks like Peter Griffin in r74's photo.

by Anonymousreply 7811/04/2013

I swear I didn't type "the staying." It was "this thing."

by Anonymousreply 7911/04/2013

As a child of liberal privilege (Harvard Westlake, Stanford) who is way bigger than almost anyone he'd ever met (6' 5", 300 pounds), I'd bet he'd never been called the N word before. At least not in an aggressive way.

And like a sane person, when a 325 pound piece of white trash from Methstate, USA, starts throwing that word around, Martin ran the other way.

by Anonymousreply 8011/04/2013

Well, if Incognito did try to extort $15,000 from Martin for a linemen's trip to LV, the feds could be looking at him for racketeering.

What an asshole. One of the other NFL coaches was quoted today as saying when Incognito was eligible to be drafted, he was on their list as DNDFC (Do Not Draft for Character). He's a character all right.

I hope his crazy ass lands in jail.

And the guys who watched it happen & egged Incognito on are a bunch of cowardly jerks. NO ONE stood up & the Dolphins let it happen.

by Anonymousreply 8111/04/2013

And what kind of name is Jonathan Incognito anyway?

Does he think no one will recognize him by that name?

by Anonymousreply 8211/04/2013

A year from now Incognito will be smoking meth in a trailer in Appalachia.

by Anonymousreply 8311/04/2013

Well - they certainly did sniff out that poster as being his father.

Sounds like they're the same. What a horrible family.

I absolutely HATE straight men like this - and there are a ton of them, particularly on Wall Street.

I love to see their comeuppance - but it's usually after decades of horrible destructive behavior towards others.

by Anonymousreply 8411/04/2013

Is it any wonder there are no out NFL players?

by Anonymousreply 8511/04/2013

Miami veterans were using rookies as ATM's, running up expensive $30,000 dinners and making the rookies pay for them. See link.

by Anonymousreply 8611/04/2013

It's like Skull & Bones for 'roided out, thick as pig shit schizoid Evangelical trash.

by Anonymousreply 8711/04/2013

It's sounds like The Sopranos with helmets and shoulder pads.

by Anonymousreply 8811/04/2013

[quote]Miami veterans were using rookies as ATM's, running up expensive $30,000 dinners and making the rookies pay for them. See link.

That is so wrong.

by Anonymousreply 8911/04/2013

Watching locker room player interviews right now on ESPN News. They all sound like complete idiots. And it seems some of the black players are having to cover their own asses over the hazing by defending racist Incognito.

Given his background, Martin is likely very unfamiliar with dealing with trash like this.

by Anonymousreply 9011/04/2013

disgusting. I hate heteros like this.

by Anonymousreply 9111/05/2013

I think Martin bears some responsibility for not going to management, showing them the evidence and saying if this doesn't stop, I am quitting and making it public. The racial slur in particular is unacceptable.

If Incognito was such a known asshole, why didn't other Dolphins, particularly AAs, hand him his ass for this?

This shit happened in pro sports all the time when I was a fan, and it was always handled in house, in the locker room. This included anti-gay harassment.

There's something here that's not right. I'm not saying it's his fault, but it's odd.

by Anonymousreply 9211/05/2013

Michael Richards and Paula Deen lost their jobs for racist remarks - why would anyone defend the use of this guy's racism for a minute?! And yet there are plenty who are attacking Martin for cowardice in running away. Good God - what alternative did he have? Was he supposed to fight the guy? Where are we, Dodge City? Racism and bigotry are hateful and must never be excused or tolerated.

by Anonymousreply 9311/05/2013


1) We don't know that Martin didn't go to management. If management's first response is "boys will be boys" when news of the hazing goes public, I wouldn't put anything past them.

2) Some of the assistant coaches and team assistants may have been participating in the abuse. So who do you trust? Especially if Incognito was acting in front of team leaders.

3) The other Dolphins may have been grateful Incognito wasn't picking on them.

4) Maybe there's something else about Martin that made him ostracized from the others: He was soft-spoken, well-mannered, quiet, son of Harvard-educated parents, et cetera.

5) There's a gang thug mentality in the NFL now. A member of the New England Patriots is suspected of murdering three people who pissed him off. Who is to say Martin wasn't concerned for his own safety - after all, Incognito had threatened him and members of his family. What are you advocating? That Martin should have gotten a gun and "handled in house"?

by Anonymousreply 9411/05/2013

I agree with r94. It's not hard to see why Martin may have seen no way out other than quitting.

by Anonymousreply 9511/05/2013

[quote]I think Martin bears some responsibility for not going to management, showing them the evidence and saying if this doesn't stop, I am quitting and making it public.

Bullshit. A fish rots from the head. Martin recognized the lay of the land. He learned quickly it is a bullying-friendly culture from the top down. "Tell the teacher" wouldn't have worked here, to use a high school metaphor.

He did the right thing. Took it until he had to snap and walk out. Caused national conversation about it, got his bully fired - all without being a "snitch." I actually applaud him for doing what he did the exact way he did it, out of necessity.

by Anonymousreply 9611/05/2013

It's amazing reading the comments on the forums at places like Sports People are incredulous that Martin didn't just take it like a man. Writing it off as simple good-natured fraternizing.

I'm sorry, but when someone calls a black man a n*gger then follows it up with saying they want to shit in your mouth and kill your mother, all bets are off.

I'm surprised martin was as chill about as he seems to have been. and that fat fuck mongoloid Incognito deserves everything coming to him. its psychos like him that are ruining this country. hope he fucking fries.

by Anonymousreply 9711/05/2013

Even if Martin was "taking it like a man" I can see where the cafeteria incident would be a final straw. Say he was going to deal with it wild west style and just take the issue into his own hands instead of dealing with it the mature and adult way he did.

It's one thing if he felt he could stand up to Incognito and be willing to trade punches with him. Once the other players on the team show that they're on Incognito's side, Martin most likely felt that it would be him against 49 (or however many are on a team).

Incognito decides to take a swing at Martin. Martin swings back. The rest of the team holds down Martin while Incognito kicks the shit out of him.

by Anonymousreply 9811/05/2013

This must be how Obama feels going to a meeting with the Republican congressional caucus.

by Anonymousreply 9911/05/2013

Hunty,it would not have gone down that way if Incognito messed with someone like Plaxico Burress,no ma'am!

That being said,is it any doubt that Incognito is as gay as the day is long? Like that football character from Glee!

by Anonymousreply 10011/05/2013

Check out this Instagram pic that Incognito posted sitting next to Martin. Clearly there is much more to this story than meets the eye...

by Anonymousreply 10111/05/2013

This is some shit even Olivia Pope & Associates wouldn't take on.

by Anonymousreply 10211/05/2013

r101, so Incognito and Martin had a drunken one night stand, then Incognito panicked and tried to deflect any gay rumors by bullying Martin?

by Anonymousreply 10311/05/2013

Fir some reason my computer at work won't open instagrams. Could you find another way to post that picture, r101? Thanks.

by Anonymousreply 10411/05/2013

Here you go R104

by Anonymousreply 10511/05/2013

Maybe this will work

by Anonymousreply 10611/05/2013

Thanks. That worked fine. I'm sorry it's not working out between the fellows, though.

by Anonymousreply 10711/05/2013

I hope this isn't considered normal in the NFL - it's disgusting.

Also making the rookies pay is just sooo fucking wrong. NFL players have a very short playing career (for most) and to have them pick up $30,000 tabs for those who can afford it least is despicable.

I hope Incognito becomes the posterchild for bad behavior and reform happens. Stupid fucking idiot jocks. Stupid fucking idiot jocks!

by Anonymousreply 10811/05/2013

[quote] Can a full grown adult really be bullied?

yes they can. I don't like the term bullying. It makes it sound like people are referring to children. Children really aren't mature enough to know right from wrong.

These are adults. I prefer to call it what that type of behavior is in the real world - Harassment, assault and racism. And let's not forget the terroristic threats to assault Jonathan Martin's family members, but to also murder Jonathan. Those are the terms the police and the authorities would call it if this occurred in any other place of business/work environment.

and Incognito has been a MAJOR PROBLEM at EVERY school or pro team he has EVER been associated with. They have all cut ties with him, suspended him or both. One school (in Oregon) got rid of him before he ever even attended a single practice. And he only went to the school in Oregon because he caused so many problems at his former school in Nebraska. They suspended him twice, he was arrested for assault and they basically threw him off the team.

This guy is a piece of shit.

by Anonymousreply 11011/06/2013

If Nebraska kicked him off the team, that's saying something. Remember, they once dealt with Johnny Rogers robbing a gas station by paroling into the custody of the head coach. He never missed a game.

The fact that both Martin's parents are Harvard lawyers makes me wonder how carefully orchestrated this is. I hope for his sake that he did whatever was necessary to build an airtight case against the team, and the inevitable lawsuit is a foregone conclusion.

by Anonymousreply 11111/06/2013

[quote]The racial slur in particular is unacceptable.

I think it's time we stopped making race alone the third rail, and include sexual orientation and gender and any other slur as equally as unacceptable.

by Anonymousreply 11211/06/2013

I heard on sports radio WDUZ Green Bay)this morning that their are reports that some coaches sicced Incognito on Martin because he missed two OTAs.

Their is an entire breakdown. No wonder the team owner served notice on everybody including the head coach, former Assistant Green Bay Packers coach Joe Philbin, that everybody's job is on the line.

Of course, he has to do that for his own self-interest, but it's an indication of how deep this goes.

Btw, I know some hate him here but my guilty pleasure celebrity crush Jim Rome is just slamming anybody who even comes close to justifying Incognito's behavior.

by Anonymousreply 11311/06/2013

Having played football in HS and college, this behavior is the norm. Seems football attracts the masochists who get off an hazing. I was lucky, I was bigger than most seniors so when they tried to come at me I fucked one of them up, but some of my class teammates got it bad.

by Anonymousreply 11411/06/2013

OTAs ???

by Anonymousreply 11511/06/2013

OTAs-organized training activities. They're in addition to regular training camp.

by Anonymousreply 11611/06/2013

R110 writes,

[bold]These are adults. I prefer to call it what that type of behavior is in the real world - Harassment, assault and racism. And let's not forget the terroristic threats to assault Jonathan Martin's family members, but to also murder Jonathan. Those are the terms the police and the authorities would call it if this occurred in any other place of business/work environment.[/bold]

This is correct.

Miami Dolphins turned somewhat into a cult-like, hostile, and dangerous place of employment.

It will be interesting to see what more comes. And I think Jonathan Martin may have been smart with how he handled himself in this; with Richie Incognito, he has hopefully destroyed himself.

by Anonymousreply 11711/06/2013

Actually, I think a lot of the problem is the fact that the NFL has taken over the role of policeman. If a player screws up, it's the NFL who steps in with fines and suspensions, while the coaches and owners (especially the owners) wring their hands and do their "I'm SHOCKED there's gambling going on here at Rick's" routine. I think that's wrong.

The NFL should hold the coaches and the owners accountable for what their players do. If a player fucks up, the coaches and owners pay the price. It's no different than holding the parents accountable for what their underage children do.

If the NFL would start suspending owners, and ban them from even setting foot in their stadiums for 6 months, these sorts of problems would vanish overnight.

by Anonymousreply 11811/06/2013

R108 is right. There's no guarantee that a rookie's career will be a long or successful one; they could blow out a knee or an Achilles any time. They shouldn't have to spend vast sums on entertaining veteran players.

by Anonymousreply 11911/06/2013

If this habit of shaking down the rookies for large sums of cash is really that widespread, I wonder what would happen if the IRS got involved?

by Anonymousreply 12011/06/2013

[quote]The NFL should hold the coaches and the owners accountable for what their players do.

Well, the fans' heads nearly exploded when the league came down hard on New Orleans for its "bounty" system designed to injure opposing players. The coach got a 1-year suspension & the players fought HARD against their penalties.

The league & teams will always protect their product until it endangers the ratings. So things like harassment, tax evasion, assault, drug use & animal abuse don't really get addressed unless it's a rare instance when the fans get upset about it.

by Anonymousreply 12111/06/2013

Yes, R94, to all you wrote. I will add I think another major issue is Incognito is the oldest or second-oldest player on the Dolphins.

If you aren't a NFL/CFL fan you may not understand how heavily the teams rely on their veterans for leadership. And some (probably too many) head coaches defer to their team leaders, at the expense of some players feeling exposed, then shunned. Philbin is a particularly gutless type.

Strong coaches like Jim Mora Sr., the late Bill Walsh, and Jack Del Rio (who hopefully will get the head gig at USC) refuse to allow hazing. But until the NFL and NFLPA create a clear, enforceable anti-harassment/hazing policy, little will change.

by Anonymousreply 12211/06/2013

Maybe Incognito had a head injury while using the ineffective helmets the league knows about, and he can sue them for negligence since his head injury is the proximate cause of his bullying.

by Anonymousreply 12311/06/2013

Maybe Martin is a Big Weirdo.

by Anonymousreply 12411/06/2013

R123, what was his excuse at Nebraska and Oregon?

by Anonymousreply 12511/06/2013

FYI the rookie extortion dinner is done at the beginning of the season in the NHL and MLB as well.

by Anonymousreply 12611/06/2013

The Las Vegan extortion trip, R126, was in the offseason after his rookie season. Martin had to pay $15,000 for a trip he didn't even go on.

People keep asking why didn't Martin go to A) the coaches, B) the players' leadership council, or why didn't he "handle" Incognito himself.

A) One of the coaches told Incognito to "ride" Martin for missing a voluntary workout. One would hope the coach didn't know Incognito went racist and issued threats against Martin and his family, but this places liability on the coaches. Players also aren't supposed to be forced to go to voluntary workouts, hence the word voluntary. That could get the Dolphins in big trouble with the NFL.

B) Incognito was ON the players' leadership council.

As far as "handling" it for himself, the center of Miami's offensive line was college roommates with Aaron Hernandez, who is accused of three murders. All summer, the center was seen around Miami wearing a "Free Aaron Hernandez" ball cap. He's now been suppoenaed to testify against Hernandez in front of a grand jury because he might know something about three murders.

Those are the kind of people Martin was supposed to "handle"?

by Anonymousreply 12711/06/2013

[quote]FYI the rookie extortion dinner is done at the beginning of the season in the NHL and MLB as well.

Yes, it's always done in every sport. I've been a football fan my whole life and have always heard of rookies having to pay huge dinner bills. Just check twitter and you'll see the vets on many teams bragging about it.

Not saying it's right, but it's certainly not new.

by Anonymousreply 12811/06/2013

Thanks, R127. This is a sickening situation and I read things like this. The comments, as expected, are just as bad.

by Anonymousreply 12911/07/2013

The extortion dinners do happen on team sports, but it what I've read makes it sound like it was more pervasive in Miami to the point that rookies were expected to pick up all socializing tabs.

by Anonymousreply 13011/07/2013

When my sister was a doctoral student at Columbia's school of social work, some students and faculty bullied her after she turned them in for grant fraud. It got really ugly. So, yes, adults do bully.

by Anonymousreply 13111/07/2013

Another pick of the two former 'friends' together. Why would you be photographed constantly in situations with someone you hate? On a plane seated together,hanging out in social settings...

My guess is that someone made a pass-if you will-and got rejected,panicked and hence all the harassment and name calling.

by Anonymousreply 13211/07/2013

Seeing both sides on this one. The Dolphins teammates seem genuinely baffled by what happened - they say Martin hung out with Incognito all the time and seemed like they were friends. There are a lot of pics to back this up. And they say Martin shared the voicemail earlier this year and was laughing about it, treating it like a joke.

But the voicemail content is kind of hard to defend.

Just not sure if this is a case of bullying on the level/type that can drive a high school kid to suicide, etc. CNN was sort of treating it that way. But I think this one is more complex.

by Anonymousreply 13311/07/2013

Having been bullied on a sports team in college, you hang around the bully to try to see if you can make it better. Maybe he just doesn't understand you, and if you play along it will stop. But it only makes it worse. Fortunately, I had other teammates and coaches who eventually saw what it was and stepped in. But it's a horrible experience while it's going on.

Martin was right to do what he did, and the right remedy for this is for the NFL to make an example and give the death penalty to the franchise. Yes, fold the Miami Dolphins.

But they won't, and it's sickening how many players and coaches are supporting the bully. I will never patronize another team, brand, or other property associated with this league of psychopaths.

by Anonymousreply 13411/07/2013

I listen to Michael Kay's radio show on ESPN NY. I wish I could call in and speak to him but its almost impossible.

(1) People asked why Martin didn't tell Incognito that he was stepping over the line. Uhm, wouldn't that have angered Incognito even more? Wouldn't that have fed into the perception that Martin was "soft?"

(2) People are acting like it was just the lunch issue. Everyone was seated and eating, Martin was of course last to get his food. When he sat down to eat, EVERYONE ELSE got up and left. Matin is NOT, I repeat, NOT a rookie this year. This is his second year in the pros. "Hazing the Rookie" should be over now.

(2a) Regarding (2) above, given everyone else's behavior, who else exactly was he supposed to go to??!!

(3) Martin told his agent what was happening and the agent went to MIA's front office. The agent reported that he was told to Martin to "have it out" with Incognito which was code for hit the dick.

(4) There was a press conference with the current QB of MIA. He stated that he never saw anything that appeared to be out of line. Perhaps Incognito wasn't exhibiting this behavior in front of others. Perhaps the QB said that because the rest of Incognito's cronies are his offense line!! If he speaks out against them he gets sacked more than Michael Vick.

(5) Martin didn't have to DO anything because he knew that, given enough rope, Incognito would hang himself. Today's technology has proven to be Incognito's undoing. Violent, threatening voicemails, racial slurs, extortion. Incognito's parents must be so proud!

Lastly, Incognito may have single-handedly prevented a gay NFL pro from EVER coming out. Martin is presumed to be straight. Can you imagine the treatment a gay player might receive? What a shithead Incognito is. His behavior has far-reaching ramifications.

by Anonymousreply 13511/07/2013

Good for you, R134. You are a rare breed.

by Anonymousreply 13611/07/2013

It's insane to me how many people support Incognito over Martin.

by Anonymousreply 13711/07/2013

Tie up Incognito and make I'm watch this on a continuous loop for six weeks.

by Anonymousreply 13811/07/2013

I'm thinking Incognito is the gay one,r135-a lot of posts in messages boards seem to think so,too.

by Anonymousreply 13911/07/2013

I know closeted gay men just like that, R139. I have been a victim of quite a few of them. Would not surprise me if he was gay.

by Anonymousreply 14011/07/2013

nice posts, R134 and R135

Incognito hopefully will be barred from playing in the major leagues again. What a disgrace.

by Anonymousreply 14111/07/2013

A former Dolphins player has written a piece for Sports Illustrated, defending Incognito, blaming Martin (basically labeling him as a deserving victim for being, apparently, an introvert who didn't go in for group activities) and essentially endorsing the harassment.

It's a disturbing read.

by Anonymousreply 14211/07/2013

R142 not surprising. If you've seen pics of Murtha, he looks like a real dumbass.

People forget that while a lot of these players go to college, for most of them it's based on their athletic merits. Most of them are ignorant and stupid as fuck.

Clearly Martin is intelligent and doesn't play that stupid game, which probably led to harassment (AKA jealousy) from the others.

by Anonymousreply 14311/07/2013

According to Murtha, the coaches told Incognito to bring Martin "out of his shell." Next time I need to bring someone out of their shell, I'll call them up on the phone and tell them I want to take a shit in their mouth and hit their mother.

I'm sure that'll do the trick.

by Anonymousreply 14411/07/2013

I don't often agree with Jason Whitlock, but he has an interesting take on the situation.

by Anonymousreply 14511/07/2013

The comments at R142 link were better than I thought, a number of them calling out SI for printing the article and questioning the objectivity of the author.

I was listening to someone the radio today and they were saying the Miami coach does not exactly known as a nice guy. When you combine it with some of the things from the article at R145 it sounds like the Miami locker room might have been esp. toxic.

I know the NFL is at the peak of is popularity, but I wonder it if it is on the verge of starting its decline. The players seem to be getting more and more out of control and the rising concussion concerns. There are also reports (largely because of the concussion issues) that fewer kids are playing at the middle and high school level. I am not saying that it will immediately disappear or even that there will be a noticeable decline for a number of years, but 30 years from now they will look back and this will be its (financial and commercial) peak.

by Anonymousreply 14611/07/2013

I hope he isn't gay because this would feed into the weak stereotype.

by Anonymousreply 14711/07/2013

Go eat your wierdo.

by Anonymousreply 14811/07/2013

[quote]I hope he isn't gay because this would feed into the weak stereotype.

People think this anyways. And, it really doesn't matter what they think if you're not weak yourself.

by Anonymousreply 14911/08/2013

I ADORE this "scandal" because it hits home on SO many current hot topics!

Entitled grown-up men acting like babies.

The way-too-powerful football BUSINESS being neutered and raked over the proverbial coals.

The challenge to the absurd US-dominance of "football" and football culture, over everything else!

Plus the possibility of lawsuits for everyone!

by Anonymousreply 15011/08/2013

Inbred held offensive line meetings at a south Florida strip club and would fine anybody who didn't show up.

Also, another play threatened to "pull a train" on Martin's sister.

by Anonymousreply 15111/08/2013

Whitlock's piece (link at R145) is good reading, interesting perspective. Says it is likely that Martin was targeted because he is a stacked combo of black, high-educated, and soft-spoken.

by Anonymousreply 15211/08/2013

Second that on Whitlock's piece linked to by R145. Martin's nickname in the Dolphins locker room was 'Wierdo'. Clearly he was the kind of black man the other players, white and black, had no conception of or experience with.

by Anonymousreply 15311/08/2013

Tiger Woods would have fit right in with these inbreds.

by Anonymousreply 15411/08/2013

Incognito looks like an ugly beast!

by Anonymousreply 15511/08/2013

Murtha has a big ass

by Anonymousreply 15611/08/2013

Wait... which one is the gay one? Martin or Incognito? And that's his real last name? He probably is a bully because he thinks it's payback for bullying he got. You can just look at the fat fuck and tell he's a dumb, mean, piece of shit. You watch, he'll actually kill someone before this is over.

by Anonymousreply 15711/08/2013

I think either

a) they're both gay, had a fling, Incognito can't deal with it (he's the classic self-loathing bully) and responded by harassing Martin; or

b) Incognito is a self-loathing gay, made a pass at the straight Martin, who rejected him, so Incognito started to harass him in retaliation.

by Anonymousreply 15811/08/2013

I think R158 is on to something. SOMETHING more than just 'bullying' was going on here. Incognito is insane though. I think this is a saying more used among my straight friends, but it might apply here: 'Don't stick your dick in crazy.'

by Anonymousreply 15911/08/2013

R159 - no there doesn't need to be "more" going on. Sometimes a bully is just a bully. He's a damaged man but way too old to get a pass and should have learned his lesson 15 years ago.

Stop trying to turn this into a gay thing - it's not.

by Anonymousreply 16011/08/2013

Sane folks don't leave messages like that for people.

by Anonymousreply 16111/08/2013

What is it about sports that makes so many men act like disgusting beasts with the manners of a pig? I don't get it.

by Anonymousreply 16211/08/2013

Roid Rage and brain damage from concussions.

by Anonymousreply 16311/08/2013

They go through life being told how great they are and how important sports are -to the point they get away with crimes- that they'll inevitably act like pigs.

When you're never disciplined for bad behavior, you think you can do no wrong.

by Anonymousreply 16411/08/2013

I would never let a son play football. Never. Sorry, kid.

Yeah, the whole thing with the HS football player cases in the news where the coaches gave them steroids that could be used as a date rape drug and then let them use their houses when they weren't home... and helped them destroy evidence after the boys in both cases left the partially clad unconscious girl on her front yard, covered in urine and semen, for her parents to find... pretty much tells you all you need to know about football culture in the U.S.

by Anonymousreply 16511/08/2013

R164 You're right. That makes sense.

by Anonymousreply 16611/08/2013

R138 that is moving.

by Anonymousreply 16711/08/2013

Another nod to r164.

Although I enjoy being a sports spectator, even in high school I was smart enough to steer clear of the athletes, especially the "stars."

Immediately I saw that they existed in an atmosphere,created by those around them, in which they where they are capable of very unpleasant behavior and escape accountability for it. Accordingly, I was wary of them.

I wonder if his parents, all along, had misgivings about Martin entering the NFL.

by Anonymousreply 16811/09/2013

This is why I hate sports - most athletes talk so filthy and disgusting that it makes you realize how sick in the head most of them are:

by Anonymousreply 16911/09/2013

r169, you do realize that the actions of one or a few people do not mean an entire large group of people act that way. you seem like a simpleton, r169.

by Anonymousreply 17011/09/2013

R170 It's a well-known fact that athletes are vulgar and nasty. For every decent one, there's 5 pigs.

And I wouldn't be so quick to jump to their defense - I can only imagine the anti-gay shit that they say.

by Anonymousreply 17111/09/2013

The good thing about gladiatorial combat was that eventually the gladiator got killed. So they didn't have a Gladiator Culture the way we have a Jock Culture. People had their favorite gladiator, but he didn't last long. I think historians have found that the most famous gladiators lived long enough for 12 fights.

Obviously, the not-so-good gladiators didn't make it to a dozen combats.

by Anonymousreply 17211/09/2013

American football is like watching's really just one more weird American fetish.

by Anonymousreply 17311/09/2013

Bears receiver Brandon Marshall is one of the more thoughtful football players out there. He's no boy scout, but he's been remarkably public with his struggles with mental illness. So when he has something to say about Jonathan Martin's difficulties with the locker-room culture, he's worth listening to.

"Take a little boy and a little girl. A little boy falls down and the first thing we say as parents is ‘Get up, shake it off. You’ll be OK. Don’t cry.’ When a little girl falls down, what do we say? ‘It’s going to be OK.’ We validate their feelings. So right there from that moment, we’re teaching our men to mask their feelings, don't show their emotions. And it’s that times 100 with football players. You can’t show that you're hurt, you can’t show any pain. So for a guy to come into the locker room and he shows a little vulnerability, that’s a problem. That’s what I mean by the culture of the NFL. And that’s what we have to change."

From ESPN's anonymous survey, it sounds like most players aren't OK with what Richie Incognito is accused of doing. Yet strikingly few active players—Terrelle Pryor is a notable exception—will put their names behind the idea that sometimes this "show no weakness" mindset is taken too far. Marshall is able to articulate what many of this silent (perhaps) majority would love to say—if not for the fear of being ostracized.

More Marshall:

"What’s going on in Miami goes on in every locker room. But it’s time for us to start talking. Maybe have some group sessions where guys sit down and maybe talk about what’s going on off the field or what’s going on in the building and not mask everything. Because the longer it goes untreated, the worse it gets."

by Anonymousreply 17411/09/2013

r164 is correct.

by Anonymousreply 17511/09/2013

I like that, R174. Marshall makes a lot of sense. I will never forget when my son (now 28) was around 3 years old and fell in Prospect Park - got a bad skinned knee. My mother was with him and told me that she could see him trying to "man up" (which he did) - I don't even know where he got that from but somehow the message got to him. And yeah, I was just discussing this story with him and he's not overly sympathetic to Martin. I am, though. Hate the thug football culture.

by Anonymousreply 17611/09/2013

This whole caveman mentality that men aren't supposed to have emotions or feelings is exactly why men are more likely to commit suicide or be mass murderers than women. All that pent-up rage drives people insane.

This caveman mentality needs to go NOW.

by Anonymousreply 17711/09/2013

R152, this story makes me think of that Bill Hicks bit, "Looks like we got ourselves a reader."

by Anonymousreply 17811/09/2013

Has Flipper commented yet?

by Anonymousreply 17911/10/2013

Notably, Martin's college coach, Jim Harbaugh, is one of the most manly men in the NFL. Harbaugh came out in support of Martin. Basically, he said he didn't have any knowledge of what was going on with the Dolphins but he knows Martin and supports him. He gave a strong statement about Martin being a good guy and said that he believes him.

by Anonymousreply 18011/10/2013

Classic Bill Burr bit about this very topic.

He's a racist misogynist, but this was good.

by Anonymousreply 18111/10/2013

Roids + brain damage + a depraved environment + money doesn't make for great character development. I think an athlete would have to have an exceptionally strong support network and character to make it through and still be decent.

But most have a big come down after they retire. According to the SI documentary "Broke," 78% of NHL players are broke within 3 years of retirement.

by Anonymousreply 18311/10/2013

Did you mean NFL, R183?

by Anonymousreply 18411/10/2013

r184 - Oh yes, I did. Thanks.

For the NBA, incidentally, the rate was 60% broke within 5 years.

by Anonymousreply 18511/10/2013

Sixty percent may be lower for the NBA, R185, but it is still shocking. Allen Iverson made more than $120 million in his career and now he claims he's so broke he can't pay his child support. Where did all that money go?

by Anonymousreply 18811/10/2013

I was surprised by Ricky Williams' take on this. Not upset by his response, just interested. He definitely thinks for himself. He says football is inherently bullying - that is what you are trained to do. He said this incident is the failure of the coaches, though it is so entrenched, Martin should not be in the NFL - he should quit, which is what Williams did himself. He took the money and ran.

by Anonymousreply 18911/10/2013

Spinning rims? Just kidding, kind of. More seriously, athletes who grow up poor or even working/lower middle class may be somewhat overwhelmed with the money and spend it on frivolous things rather than save and invest some of it. Also, they probably have family/friends/hangers-on asking for money.

Back to the topic, they were discussing it on Melissa Harris-Perry and one of the things they mentioned was that Incognito got a "pass" on the N-word because some of the players considered him to be like a black guy. Some player explained that was because being black was "...about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced." This also implies Martin wasn't black or black enough for them because of his personality, interests and background. Again, class issues are also at play here.

by Anonymousreply 19011/10/2013

So.... they only consider the dumbshits to be true blacks?

Certainly explains why most black kids still think doing well in school is acting white

and why Steven A Smith ripped them(dolphin players) a new one on ESPN.

by Anonymousreply 19111/10/2013

If that is true, R190, they really are all fucking crazy.

by Anonymousreply 19211/10/2013

Sad but true. He was educated & not street enough. That's what I'm thinking why the black players looked the other way. Sad but intelligence is "White", hood or street is "Black". Martin did'nt fit in with them. He wasn't White enough or Black enough.

by Anonymousreply 19311/10/2013

They're having the same conversation about the rapper Drake on lipstick alley,r193. It boggles the mind that stupid and ignorant are 'traits' to be admired...

by Anonymousreply 19411/10/2013

R190-R194, remember that ancient Chris Rock bit about how black people in general treat their own who are academically accomplished, versus those who got their Ph.Ds in prison? My black family and friends refer to that bit all the time.

by Anonymousreply 19511/10/2013

Weak, weak ass head coach and the nutty general manager are not expected to survive this scandal.

by Anonymousreply 19611/10/2013

r188 - From the documentary description:

[quote]Sucked into bad investments, stalked by freeloaders, saddled with medical problems, and naturally prone to showing off, most pro athletes get shocked by harsh economic realities after years of living the high life.

by Anonymousreply 19711/11/2013

They sent each other 1100 text messages in the past year??

by Anonymousreply 19811/11/2013

It sounds like a lot, but it's a total of 3 a day.

by Anonymousreply 19911/11/2013
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