Serving up this steaming pile of
Celebrity Gossip
Gay Politics
Gay News
and Pointless Bitchery
Since 1995

NSA Spying Scandal: EU Sends Team To U.S. To Seek Response To Allegations

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - A delegation of lawmakers from the European Union will travel to Washington on Monday to seek a response to allegations of widespread spying by the United States against EU citizens and governments, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

The three-day visit by members of the European Parliament's civil liberties committee follows reports this week that the U.S. National Security Agency accessed tens of thousands of French phone records and monitored Merkel's mobile phone.

The revelations have drawn condemnation from EU leaders meeting in Brussels, with Merkel demanding that the United States sign up to a "no-spying" agreement with Germany and France by the end of the year, in line with similar deals with Britain and others.

The nine-member delegation will meet senior U.S. government and intelligence officials and explore "possible legal remedies for EU citizens" resulting from the alleged surveillance, although it is not clear what such remedies might entail.

The European Parliament has already opened an inquiry into the impact on Europe from leaks by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, and has led a push for tougher data protection rules and the suspension of a major transatlantic data-sharing deal.

"A key priority for this inquiry is to gather all relevant information and evidence from U.S. sources, which is why this fact-finding delegation to Washington is so important," Claude Moraes, a British socialist lawmaker who is leading the parliamentary inquest, said in a statement.

The European Parliament, with 766 members directly elected from the EU's 28 member states, this week voted in favor of an amended package of laws that would greatly strengthen EU data protection rules that date from 1995.

The rules would restrict how data collected in Europe by firms such as Facebook, Yahoo! and Google is shared with non-EU countries, and impose fines of 100 million euros ($138 million) or more on rule breakers.

Fearing that the rules, if adopted, will raise the cost of handling data in Europe, major U.S. technology companies and the U.S. government have lobbied hard against the proposals, which the backers hope may become law during 2015.

by Anonymousreply 5311/04/2013

Oh please people. The NSA was on record as spying on everyone in works published in the 1970s. All these people, including Angela Merkel, rose in politics assuming the USA was monitoring everything she did. Indeed, she probably thinks her rise was impossible without US covert help. It's the Euro public which didn't realize it and is now just cluing in.

by Anonymousreply 410/25/2013

See, I've always assumed that countries spied on each other. I mean, just because the Cold War ended doesn't mean that spycraft stopped. It seems incredibly naïve or disingenuous for the EU to act shocked that there is "gambling in Casablanca".

That said, I'm glad the NSA is getting their ass handed to them.

by Anonymousreply 510/25/2013

"The Puzzle Palace" was one book about NSA spying back in the day.

by Anonymousreply 610/25/2013

Europeans and smart Americans have known what the NSA was up to for over 30 years.

by Anonymousreply 1010/25/2013

Germans, I dare say, have a permanent team at NSA getting intercepts.

by Anonymousreply 1110/25/2013

As if the French and the Germans aren't doing the same thing? PUHLEESE!

by Anonymousreply 1210/25/2013

It's not that likely R13, because they can probably get intercepts from their staff who are permanently located at the NSA.

by Anonymousreply 1510/28/2013

It's all political theater. They know the US and UK spy on them and share intelligence. And Germany and France spy too.

by Anonymousreply 1810/28/2013

As if spying on the leaders of Germany, France, Spain, Mexico and Brazil are not bad enough, the NSA also spied on the pope.

by Anonymousreply 2110/31/2013

The New York Times says the US has an agreement with four other countries not to spy on them (and vice-versa) that's call The Five Eyes - Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

by Anonymousreply 2210/31/2013

An agreement nobody has adhered to. Even I ran into British agents back in the day, trying to stop the IRA in America.

by Anonymousreply 2310/31/2013


Explain, plz

by Anonymousreply 2411/01/2013

r23, that was also a "Great Game".

The British government penetrated the IRA from the beginning. At one point the Provo security chief was a plant.

The only reason it was allowed to go on was the number of prominent UK Catholic families who supported it. It was well-known that many Americans like the Kennedys also financed it.

by Anonymousreply 2611/01/2013

There are only two types of countries in the world, those who are spying on all the other countries and those who wish they could figure out how to spy on all the other countries.

by Anonymousreply 2711/01/2013

Also when they were looking for Jimmy Smith R26.

And for some reason they thought Corning Glass was involved and that a bunch of dumpy western east towns like Elmira, Warren-PA, Erie, and Youngstown held the backbone.

by Anonymousreply 2911/01/2013

Some countries are not worth spying on.

by Anonymousreply 3011/01/2013

What R18 said. They all spy on each other. Besides, the EU can whine all they want, but they still want the US "on that wall." So does China.

These countries who whine about the US' power and stomp their little feet and pout about the US still want this country taking the lead when there's a mess in the world because the rest of them don't want that responsibility and also know they can't handle it.

by Anonymousreply 3111/01/2013

And, really, the last century has certainly shown us that we have no reason to spy on Germany, right?

Like I said, countries are either spying on everyone or wishing they could.

by Anonymousreply 3211/02/2013

r32, I thought the tacit agreement was for foreign policy/security issues.

The business espionage is not cricket.

by Anonymousreply 3311/02/2013

UPDATE 2-Europe's spies work together on mass surveillance - Guardian 12:10am IST

By Estelle Shirbon

LONDON, Nov 2 (Reuters) - Spy agencies across Western Europe are working together on mass surveillance of Internet and phone traffic comparable to programmes run by their U.S. counterpart denounced by European governments, Britain's Guardian newspaper reported on Saturday.

Citing documents leaked by fugitive former U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) contractor Edward Snowden, the Guardian said methods included tapping into fibre optic cables and working covertly with private telecommunications companies.

The Guardian named Germany, France, Spain, Sweden and the Netherlands as countries where intelligence agencies had been developing such methods in cooperation with counterparts including Britain's surveillance agency GCHQ.

The report is potentially embarrassing for governments, especially in Germany and France which have been the most vocal in protesting about U.S. mass surveillance of European communication networks revealed by Snowden since June.

Germany, jointly with Brazil, circulated a draft resolution to a U.N. General Assembly committee on Friday that called for an end to excessive electronic surveillance, data collection and other gross invasions of privacy.

There has been particular anger in Germany, a close ally of the United States, over the revelation that the NSA monitored the mobile phone of Chancellor Angela Merkel.

Snowden has written an open letter to Merkel and other German authorities to say he is counting on international support to stop Washington's "persecution" of him.

Germany's BND federal intelligence service said there had been considerations in 2008 about merging German security services' surveillance of telecommunications, which would have required changes to telecommunication and security laws.

It said it had exchanged experiences with the British services on this in 2008 but these discussions had focussed on technical rather than legal issues. The BND added that it regularly held such exchanges on technical developments with other European services.

"It is incorrect that Germany's BND federal intelligence service tried to circumvent legal restrictions to be able to implement British acquisition technology. On this point too the BND complied with the law," a BND spokesman said.

The Guardian said GCHQ files leaked by Snowden showed the British agency taking credit for advising European counterparts on how to get around domestic laws intended to restrict their surveillance powers.


Citing a 2008 GCHQ country-by-country report, the Guardian said the British spies were particularly impressed with Germany's BND agency, which they said had "huge technological potential and good access to the heart of the Internet".

"We have been assisting the BND ... in making the case for reform or reinterpretation of the very restrictive interception legislation in Germany," the GCHQ document said, according to the Guardian.

The GCHQ had also praised France's DGSE agency and in particular its close ties with an unnamed telecommunications company, a relationship from which GCHQ hoped to benefit.

"We have made contact with the DGSE's main industry partner, who has some innovative approaches to some Internet challenges, raising the potential for GCHQ to make use of this company in the protocol development arena," the report said.

There was similar analysis of the intelligence agencies in Spain, Sweden and the Netherlands, with Spain's CNI praised for its ties with an unnamed British telecommunications firm and Sweden's FRA congratulated over a law passed in 2008 that widened surveillance powers.

Asked about the Guardian's report, Sweden's National Defence Radio Establishment (FRA) said it was natural that it had contacts with similar organisations in other countries.

FRA spokesman Fredrik Wallin said

by Anonymousreply 3411/02/2013

Ah. Just as several people in this thread (including me) said earlier - everybody is spying on everybody else. They've been at it for decades - actually for centuries but in the modern era we'll go with decades.

The children who are jumping up and down in faux outrage over this (or in the even sadder real outrage) need to grow the fuck up. We spy, they spy, spying happens. It's a fact of life and nothing to freak out about.

by Anonymousreply 3511/02/2013

People like r35 want us to think that all the governments are on par with one another, with equal access to information and technology. Nothing could be further from the truth. If Uraguay, for example, wants to be on equal footing with the US, what options do they have? It'd be MUCH, MUCH harder for them to spy on Obama than vice versa.

by Anonymousreply 3711/02/2013

If Uruguay wants espionage parity, it should ally with Brazil and/or Argentina and pool information.

by Anonymousreply 3811/02/2013

r38, the US spends more on military than nearly the rest of the world combined. So that's still not parity.

Try again.

by Anonymousreply 3911/02/2013

Uruguay is not owed parity, r39. Smaller, weaker countries ally with other countries. They trade information and make defense agreements. That's nothing new.

by Anonymousreply 4011/02/2013

r40, you still don't get it. Uruguay could ally with Brazil, Argentina, Chile and ALL OF EUROPE and still not be on par with the US for resources. Not you getting it?

by Anonymousreply 4111/02/2013

That would be okay by me, r41. It isn't true, but I don't mind being powerful.

by Anonymousreply 4211/02/2013

These kids don't actually want to learn anything or understand how politics (both global and domestic) actually function. If they acknowledge how the world really works, they might have to grow up and deal with it.

They get their satisfaction from bitching and whining about how THE UNITED STATES IS WORSE THAN ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD and AMERICANS ARE WORSE PEOPLE THAN EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD. They probably use those as personal mantras for anti-meditation sessions.

To see things clearly, rationally and with an intelligent, informed, historically accurate, adult perspective just isn't their thing. Whining and hysterical carping at the United States is their thing, god forbid they get a job. Their parents must be so proud.

by Anonymousreply 4311/02/2013

No, r46, I think YOU think the US may be calculating this badly.

by Anonymousreply 4711/02/2013

R48, I've argued with tea partiers on other sites, and they pull the same crap you do. Hyperbole verging on hysterical overstatement plus making up positions I'm supposed to hold.

by Anonymousreply 4911/03/2013

Who cares? And the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand all host major NSA installations on our behalf and do our bidding. Which is not a secret.

by Anonymousreply 5211/03/2013

R51, that's like arguing that we should get rid of our military because all it does is make other countries feel like they need a military.

The truth is that there has been spying since eyeballs evolved. Krugg and Lugg were peeping at each other in their caves. Your view of the world is very simplistic. Can't we all just get along will never ever work as long as there are human beings involved.

by Anonymousreply 5311/04/2013
Need more help? Click Here.

Follow theDL catch up on what you missed

recent threads by topic delivered to your email

follow popular threads on twitter

follow us on facebook

Become a contributor - post when you want with no ads!