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Boardwalk Empire Season 4 - Nucky seems to have mellowed, Eddie is gone, and Margaret is living in New York.

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by Anonymousreply 35511/03/2014

Gave up on the show when they killed off the only eye candy last season (the younger guy with the blonde hair, Nucky's protege and nemisis).

by Anonymousreply 110/14/2013

Incredibly well done show.

by Anonymousreply 210/14/2013

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by Anonymousreply 310/14/2013

The series has become the best show on TV these days. At times it is breath-takingly beautiful and the writing is great. I wasn't so crazy about it at first. Last night there was a scene where the black singer was singing a song with the Onyx club band - the costumes, sets, color, music - everything was perfect. The series is very historically accurate.

by Anonymousreply 410/14/2013

Nucky's nephew is a real asshole, probably even worse then Nucky or his brother. I always forget Nucky's brother's name.

I think the writing has gone down hill but the look is still gorgeous.

I was happy to see Patricia Arquette but wonder how large her part will be, since her character lives in Tampa.

I'm assuming Nucky will get a new house man, maybe he'll be cute? What year is it suppose to be?

by Anonymousreply 510/14/2013

[quote]Will the FBI agent turn out to be J. Edgar Hoover's boy toy?

I was thinking the same thing.

[quote]And WTF was up with Eli sobbing in front of the FBI agent in Eddie's room? Completely out of character for him.

Right. I think it was a plot device to bring out that monogrammed hanky. Whose initials were those, anyway? It went by too fast, but I got the impression it was a significant detail. I also wondered if maybe Eli wasn't working an angle with the vulnerability act.

by Anonymousreply 610/14/2013

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by Anonymousreply 710/14/2013

That bothered me because I could not see the initials and I wasn't really sure what to make of Eli's crying.

In real life did Eli commit suicide or something? What a life...awful. I was reading about Lucky and Meyer and it was like one murder right after another, you would think some guilt would have hung with them? I guess not. I admit, the last two weeks I've apparently missed some important moments of the show.

by Anonymousreply 810/14/2013

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I am absolutely loving this season. After the overwrought, hammy opera of last season, these new episodes have a very real pulse.

Love the stuff with Willie. And the whole Eddie storyline was very touching.

I totally get why Eli was crying. I think with his son away, the realities of life are finally hitting him. Watching so many of Nucky's minions fall, he has to know what's in the cards for himself and his family. He had real opportunities in life (didn't he?) and he's thrown them all away in service to a vain and empty man.

As much as I love Michael Shannon, I wish they had just left that character out of it. Though, I'm loving the Chicago stuff by and large. The Capones are great.

by Anonymousreply 910/14/2013

I don't know, maybe the monogram was JEH?

by Anonymousreply 1010/14/2013

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by Anonymousreply 1110/14/2013

[quote]He could give Bobby Cannavale a run for his money in the cheesy acting category.

In terms of cheesiness, a wheel of aged Wisconsin Cheddar couldn't compete with Cannavale.

by Anonymousreply 1210/14/2013

R7 - Yes, that's it! I knew I had seen a hanky offered recently, but I couldn't quite place the circumstances. I'm sure you're right about how the connection will be made, as well.

Another thing I've been thinking is that the Daughter Maitland character was brought in by Narcisse specifically to tempt and be used as a tool to bring down Chalky.

by Anonymousreply 1310/14/2013

The monogram was JTM. We know Hoover calls the agent Jim. Now Eli is wondering why somebody supposedly called Knox has a handkerchief with those initials.

by Anonymousreply 1410/14/2013

By the way, what happened with Richard and his sister? I thought maybe he would stay with her and help take care of her?

I guess I missed all of that...

by Anonymousreply 1510/14/2013

[quote] The series is very historically accurate.

How do you know?

by Anonymousreply 1610/14/2013

Boardwalk Empire is a show that lost steam almost immediately. No one will care when it comes to an end, unlike Breaking Bad, Sopranos, Mad Men (speaking for myself).

by Anonymousreply 1710/14/2013

The thing about Boardwalk is it had a beginning but in reality...the side characters are in reality, the stars of the show.

I mean how much was Nucky involved in the New York gangs and their wars?

At some point I believe Nucky had to go to prison but I forget when. And what year did Al Capone get arrested? I was interested in Margaret's story, Nucky's family life but all of that ended, leaving a hole in the show.

by Anonymousreply 1810/14/2013

Nucky is based on Enoch "Nucky" Johnson, who was a powerful and flamboyant Atlantic City politician.

by Anonymousreply 1910/14/2013

I can't watch that show without sexy, hot Michael Pitt. I have zero interest now that he's gone.

by Anonymousreply 2010/14/2013

[quote]The thing about Boardwalk is it had a beginning but in reality...the side characters are in reality, the stars of the show.

I totally agree. And weirdly, that's what I'm loving about this season. It's like they finally embraced the lack of a center.

Nucky isn't a strong enough character to hang a whole series on. And Buscemi, who, I generally love, isn't charismatic enough to be at the center of anything.

But this season, they're widening the scope, and ironically it's the most focused it's ever been. IMHO.

by Anonymousreply 2110/14/2013

I'm sorry but this show is ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

by Anonymousreply 2210/14/2013

I thought last week's episode had tension all around. I was glued to it (for the first time ever.)

Last night's episode... just OK. Loved the boxing match at the end.

I think they need to bring an end to Kelly MacDonald's character. She's dull as dishwater on her own but she can't reconcile herself to life with Nucky. End it. Fantastically somehow.

by Anonymousreply 2310/14/2013

I thought Michael Pitt was pretty hammy, and his "sex appeal" was all phony posturing, so he wasn't sexy to me.

by Anonymousreply 2410/14/2013

Yep r22, very quiet and slow moving. I fell asleep about 5 minutes into it last night. Don't try to watch it if you're tired at all. But this morning I put it on and it was pretty good, I still like the show.

by Anonymousreply 2510/14/2013

Well, that explains the initials on the handkerchief. I wonder if they'll "go there" with him and J. Edgar.

by Anonymousreply 2610/20/2013

Nice curve ball on Margaret. Don't know where it goes, but nice one.

by Anonymousreply 2710/20/2013

I missed it, R26. What was the hanky explanation?

by Anonymousreply 2810/20/2013

[quote]What was the hanky explanation?

Oops, never mind. His name was "Toliver". I thought, for a second it was "Tolson". My mistake.

by Anonymousreply 2910/20/2013

The monogram on the hanky ended in a "T". That hanky came from Eddie. Tolliver had the hanky in his possession and gave it to Eli when he cried. I think Nucky recognized the hanky as belonging either to himself or to Eddie.

In any case that hanky is associated with Eddie, and Nucky realizes it. He knows something is "off." He doesn't know Eddie was taken by the Feds and questioned and threatened by them. Eddie told him he stayed out all night partying "with friends." Eddie never told Nucky he'd been taken and questioned by FBI thugs.

by Anonymousreply 3010/20/2013

The Piggly Wiggly guy is too good to be true. He's only with Gillian to trap her. He's probably investigating her murdering that poor boy last season. Maybe he's been hired by his family.

by Anonymousreply 3110/20/2013

[quote]The Piggly Wiggly guy is too good to be true.

Agreed.

Oh, and what the hell was up with that sheet? Was it superglued to his junk? So artificial.

A lot of post coital talk in this episode.

by Anonymousreply 3210/20/2013

Something is off about Piggly Wiggly guy. I almost wonder who's going to kill who. Because you know at some point Gillian's going to try to kill him. She can't help it. She's crazy. And if he started divorce proceedings and doesn't follow thru he is in deep shit.

In real life, isn't the O'Bannion murder part of the St. Valentine's Day massacre? Wasn't it done by gangsters dressed as cops in some warehouse?

And in real life, when does Arnold Rothstein get assassinated?

by Anonymousreply 3310/20/2013

Why was he helping her cold turkey?

It doesn't seem like something a casual screw would do.

by Anonymousreply 3410/20/2013

OK. Correction. FBI agent,John Tolliver is posing as Warren Knox. Nucky knows him as Knox. The hanky he gave Eli had his real initials on it. JHT. Nucky is puzzled why he would give Eli a monogram with someone else's initials.

Now if, as it was suggested upthread, Eddie had a similar hanky with a similar monogram in his possession, Nucky will realize that Eddie had contact with the agent and something is terribly wrong.

Also the double snitch who is telling Tolliver to stop giving out monogrammed hankies, I think his name is Means, is a real person. The episode between Torrio & O'Banion about the warehouse and Torrio's arrest, is all true, too, just the way it happened. So is Torrio's order to Capone to kill O'Banion.

I wonder when J. Edgar Hoover's sexual proclivities will assert themselves. I also wonder when his true love, Clyde Tolson comes on the scene.

by Anonymousreply 3510/20/2013

The only reason the Piggly Wiggly guy is helping Gillian fight her heroin addiction is because he wants her to be "lucid" for when she's arrested and tried for that kid's murder.

by Anonymousreply 3610/20/2013

The Sieben's Brewery thing was real, too. I recognized the name because I was at the one they resurrected as a micro-brew pub back in the 80s. This link mentions a bit about the history with O'Banion, Torrio, etc.

by Anonymousreply 3710/21/2013

I'm wondering if Piggly Wiggly guy is some kind of undercover agent? Or maybe a relative of the young guy she murdered, who reminded her of her son.

by Anonymousreply 3810/21/2013

[quote]Last night there was a scene where the black singer was singing a song

That song is called "Saint Louis Blues." It's very famous, but the one two episodes ago was one of the best interpretations I've heard.

The handkerchief was Agent "Knox's", with the initials of his real name.

by Anonymousreply 3910/21/2013

I missed some things about Chalkie and that whole storyline...so Wright actually murdered the girls mother, and she still loves him?

Did Chalkie murder someone? Who was it?

by Anonymousreply 4010/21/2013

R40, Yes, Dr. Narcisse killed her mom and she is still in his thrall. He's almost like a cult leader with the way he manipulates.

And that was Purnsley, not Chalky, who killed the man in the church. Purnsley killed him because the man was on his way to tell Chalky about Purnsley selling drugs in the community.

by Anonymousreply 4110/21/2013

I'm pretty sure the Piggly Wiggly guy is an undercover agent.

by Anonymousreply 4210/21/2013

Yeah, but that dope dealer can't really think Chalky won't find out? I have a feeling things are moving in a trajectory towards a huge confrontation between Narcisse & Chalky. Chalky is going to realize his Pretty Thang, Daughter is reporting to Narcisse, and Chalky might kill her. Chalky's dope dealing, double dealing, murderous employee is going to die, and I bet Nucky helps rid Chalky of Valentin Narcisse to sort of "return the favor" Chalky did him last season.

by Anonymousreply 4310/21/2013

Someone on another board seems to think that Piggly Wiggly guy is connected to Gurrah Shapiro.

by Anonymousreply 4410/21/2013

The Loeb and Leopold headline in the newspaper the cop was reading when he got shot tells me it was 1924. Arnold Rothstein doesn't get murdered until 1928. I'm surprised they're showing him in such a weakened state so soon. Arnold was still a force to be reckoned with in 1924.

by Anonymousreply 4510/21/2013

R31-I wish Gillian had not killed off Billy Magnusson after only two episodes last season.. of course he got Broadway, a Tony nomination and is now playing a prince in INTO THE WOODS being filmed in England. So I guess it all worked out for him.

Ron Livingston as Gillian's suitor and /or FBI undercover Remember him from SEX AND THE CITY? He played one of SJP's boyfriends.

by Anonymousreply 4610/21/2013

If Rothstein got killed in 1928 I suspect next season could start with his murder and do a time jump to 1929. Terence Winter has said he wants to end the series in 1929.

by Anonymousreply 4710/21/2013

Speaking of deaths, has anyone noticed how wacxen and gaunt Steve Buscemi looks lately? They're using a lot of make up to make him look less cadaverous, but it wouldn't surprise me if Steve Buscemi has some serious health issues in real life. He was never much to look at, but lately he looks bad, even for him.

by Anonymousreply 4810/21/2013

I meant "waxen."

by Anonymousreply 4910/21/2013

Isn't Jeffrey Wright playing a historical figure? So they can't really kill him off. When did he die in real life?

by Anonymousreply 5010/21/2013

I find the actor who plays Rothstein oddly hot. And I do mean oddly. He looks like unkneaded white dough to me. Yet I want to have sex with it.

by Anonymousreply 5110/21/2013

Maybe Steve needs to eat a sandwich? The fact is, he looks nothing like the real Nucky.

I hope SB isn't sick, I've been a fan for years and that's why I started watching Boardwalk Empire.

I can never remember the Reverend's name...I'll look him up in Wiki but I didn't think he was the person who was killed.

Maybe the real Minister was killed?

by Anonymousreply 5210/21/2013

Steven looks just like Nucky Thompson - a fictional character. There was no Nucky Thompson, there was a Nucky Johnson. Get with it R52.

by Anonymousreply 5310/21/2013

And Gillian is based on great-grandma Lohan, yes?

by Anonymousreply 5410/21/2013

[quote]Isn't Jeffrey Wright playing a historical figure? So they can't really kill him off. When did he die in real life?

In a series that contains several real-life prohibition-era crime figures, Wright revealed that his character is a "funhouse mirror distortion" of a Harlem racketeer named Casper Holstein.

"My character is an immigrant from Trinidad; Casper Holstein came up from the Virgin Islands, and ultimately became the biggest and first massive numbers-runner in Harlem, early 1920s, Wright explained... My guy is him, but with all the benevolence sucked out of him."

by Anonymousreply 5510/21/2013

I'm sorry, but every time Dr. Narcisse introduces himself, I keep expecting him to say, "I am Dr. Narcisse Sissyboodles." I don't know why, and it never fails to crack me up.

I am loving his character. Anybody who can make Chalky White seem like a wide eyed innocent is definitely the best villain around. I also really enjoy the musical numbers with Daughter Maitland.

It's funny to me that Betty Draper's brother is J. Edgar Hoover. I'm secretly hoping they'll do a seen wherein he's dressed like a flapper.

by Anonymousreply 5610/21/2013

But he was based on a real person as I said, they looked nothing alike. The real Nucky's image has been somewhat whitewashed IMO, by his nephew(?).

I can not find Jeffrey Wright's character in Wikipedia. His first name is Valentine.

by Anonymousreply 5710/21/2013

[quote]I'm secretly hoping they'll do a seen

Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 5810/21/2013

[quote]Arnold Rothstein doesn't get murdered until 1928. I'm surprised they're showing him in such a weakened state so soon. Arnold was still a force to be reckoned with in 1924.

Right, I was also wondering why he would be patronizing a cheesy, low rent brokerage outfit like that. Then it occurred to me that it could be part of a money laundering scheme or something like that.

by Anonymousreply 5910/21/2013

Some of the historical characters and dates have been altered for the sake of the story. It's called dramatic license, people. Boardwalk Empire isn't a fucking documentary. Christ.

by Anonymousreply 6010/21/2013

I thought the "investment" ties in more with Rothstein's gambling issues.

And r58, scene schmene, you got me. And I'm guessing that's your best contribution to Datalounge yet.

by Anonymousreply 6110/21/2013

Jeffrey Wright plays Valentin Narcisse. I don't know if he's a real historical figure or an invention. But I do know about Marcus Garvey, who was real, and the Negro Improvement Association which was real, and the whole back to Africa movement was real.

Either Valentin poses as a Garveyite, or he's a prototype for a self styled Garvey-like leader. Wright's character is a drug dealer, scam artist, murderer and all around thug.

Wouldn't surprise me if the vicious guy selling dope, who also works for Chalky, ends up killing Valentin. I just know they're going to have a major falling out and one will kill off the other. I hope they don't kill off Chalky. He already died once in The Wire.

by Anonymousreply 6210/21/2013

Loved the version of St. Louis Blues- best Evah!

I don't think the Piggly Wiggly guy is trying to entrap Gillian into confessing her murder of the boy. How would the Piggly Woggly guy even know? And what about that business meeting at the club? Was that a hoax? Sooo, I am just not certain what the angle is....

by Anonymousreply 6310/21/2013

[quote]And I'm guessing that's your best contribution to Datalounge yet.

Actually no. But sorry to tap into your insecurities.

GOTCHA!

by Anonymousreply 6410/21/2013

One of the main stand-ins on the show told me that the Piggly Wiggly guy is only with Gillian to trap her and get her arrested for the kid's murder. And this guy has worked pretty much every day on the show for four years so his spoilers have always been correct.

by Anonymousreply 6510/21/2013

"Actually no. But sorry to tap into your insecurities.

GOTCHA!

by: r58, chuckling at the little man with the bad spelling"

Speaks for itself, doesn't it?

by Anonymousreply 6610/22/2013

neener neener. Go to bed, you'll be over it in the morning.

by Anonymousreply 6810/22/2013

[quote]Jeffrey Wright plays Valentin Narcisse

The Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan,

by Anonymousreply 6910/22/2013

Did he kill the pastor or just another guy?

Anyway, thanks.

I looked up O'Banion and he was killed in 1924...I thought this story was going on a little later in the decade.

by Anonymousreply 7010/22/2013

But will you be over it, r68? Taking joy in someone else's mistakes is the very definition of a "little man." And I'm guessing pointing out other people's mistakes is one of the few ways you know how to bolster your own self-esteem. Meanwhile, grammar trolls are everywhere on Datalounge. I'm sure you felt safe among your herd.

And yet, you failed to shame me. And that's embarrassing for you, isn't it? It takes away from the smug satisfaction you felt after your initial post. I'm sure you thought of it as an easy "win."

Not so easy now when you have to keep posting if only to have the last word. People like you probably think Datalounge is all about the pointless bitchery. You fail to realize you only come across as a pointless bitch.

I would love to keep up the argument. But I think I've exhausted the topic.

Now it's your turn I guess.

by Anonymousreply 7110/22/2013

Chalkey is a thug but still, I don't want him gone. Even when he's mean, I keep trying to see some good in him. He might remind me of someone I've known.

by Anonymousreply 7210/22/2013

I think the character playing Willie Thompson is hot.

His name is Ben Rosenfield. What do we know about him?

by Anonymousreply 7310/22/2013

I'm a big Boardwalk apologist, but this last episode was ridiculous. I'm all for a theme or motif unifying an episode, but EVERY single person being a double agent? Come on. Too twisty.

by Anonymousreply 7410/22/2013

Wow. Hadn't thought about it that way. But you know, everyone was double dealing. Agent "Knox", Dunn the Dope man playing up to Valentin & undermining Chalky, while working for Chalky.

Then Valentin's pretending to be a Black Nationalist leader, and a drug dealer and scam artist. There's Nucky's estranged wife pretending to be someone else, working for a scam stock broker, and Arnold Rothstein going by an alias.

And Daughter is fucking Chalky, and reporting to Valentin, who she is also fucking, and Willie, Eli's son with his big secret that Uncle Nucky cleaned up. Shit. It's endless.

by Anonymousreply 7510/22/2013

I found this latest episode most confusing, as it were.

by Anonymousreply 7610/22/2013

Willie's cute. I want to run my fingers through his hair.

by Anonymousreply 7710/22/2013

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by Anonymousreply 7810/28/2013

Dunn was a hot man though, a big stud, one of the sexiest guys on Boardwalk. I'll miss him for that anyway. That actor needed a break too, he has no Wikipedia page and no biographical info on imdb. I wanted to see if he played football, he looks like he would've.

I also think Mickey is really hot, and giggling is oddly charming. I hope he gets to get Nucky back for whacking him on the head.

Patricia Arquette still looks great and is doing a fine job with her role. This is sort of a comeback for her since she'd become a bit of a joke with her Medium show.

Definitely one of the better episodes this season, immediately following a pretty boring one.

by Anonymousreply 7910/28/2013

I thought Chalky was dead.

Eli is a mess, always has been and you know he is a wild card. He has no great love for his brother but really Nucky should have set him up in a legitimate business after he realized his brother couldn't handle the pressures of a life in crime.

After the feds talked to him, he should have gone straight to Nucky. Nucky would know what to do.

I think they should get the kid a new name and send him to Tampa. He is obviously a sociopath and no one can trust their back when he's around.

by Anonymousreply 8010/28/2013

I still want Willie Thompson deep inside of me.

Am I wrong for desiring him? and then having the desire to stroke his curly hair as we lie in the bed with me full of his sperm?

Am I a whore?

by Anonymousreply 8110/29/2013

Did you get paid? You are probably just a common slut.

by Anonymousreply 8210/29/2013

Paul Sparks, who plays Mickey Doyle, was in the Broadway production of TAKE ME OUT. So did he go full frontal?

by Anonymousreply 8310/29/2013

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by Anonymousreply 8410/30/2013

[quote]It's funny to me that Betty Draper's brother is J. Edgar Hoover. I'm secretly hoping they'll do a seen wherein he's dressed like a flapper.

He was also on the first two seasons of The Killing. He's a huge ham with cloves sticking out of him. His accent as J. Edgar makes me laugh.

by Anonymousreply 8510/30/2013

The Doctor sure is a cruel motherfucker.

by Anonymousreply 8611/04/2013

So what is Nucky going to do w/the Chalky and Doctor feud? I hope Chalky ends up OK. The Doctor is a sick fuck...

Like the Patricia A character. But not sure if she and Nucky have any chemistry...

So Jillian's rich beau has a family? Poor Jillian- raped at 13! I do feel sorry for her.

Her story seems to mirror Daughters- both are entrapped to rich older men who raped/molested them when they were very young.

by Anonymousreply 8711/04/2013

wish Dunn hadn't been killed and really wish we had more Harrow.

by Anonymousreply 8811/04/2013

Harrow is getting married and will be working for Nucky? He may end up as the hit man for the Doctor.

by Anonymousreply 8911/04/2013

Is anyone watching this show?

by Anonymousreply 9011/11/2013

I am. Great episode last night. I'm worried for Chalky.

And I'm getting a little tired of Al Capone scratching his nose. I like the actor; it's just getting a mite obvious.

by Anonymousreply 9111/11/2013

I am hopeful Chalky is OK but the song at the end was not so hopeful...:(.

Creepy scene between the Doctor and Chalky's daughter. I was fearful he was going to seduce her.

And the J Edgar Hoover blowing off the secret agent who has been blackmailing ELi was curious....

by Anonymousreply 9211/11/2013

Surprise season. It's like watching modern Shakespeare, no kidding. Violent, brooding and philosophical. Complex plots, loyalties tested, betrayed and redeemed. Family, race and ethnicity discussed with brutal honesty. Amazing writing and acting this year, and the foregrounding of powerful black characters and actors--absolutely fantastic. I thought the series was over last year, too much melodrama, writing stale, but hugely improved now. New show runner?

As for the overpraised Homeland, meh. So much teen angst. Hatufim, on the other hand, and the series Homeland is based on, you should watch--it is so far superior.

my personal recs for TV:

The Escape Artist UK (David Tennant) Tunnel UK (Stephen Dillane, aka Stannis on GOT) based upon: Bron/Broen Braquo Engrenages the latter 4 now in hardcoded UK subs Whitechapel

by Anonymousreply 9311/11/2013

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by Anonymousreply 9411/11/2013

R93, I agree about Boardwalk. Very Shakespearean. I am loving it. I'm worried about Chalky's kids, and Eli's son Willy, and as much as I hate Narcisse, I really want something bad to happen to that FBI agent. Hoover obviously doesn't like him, and is less concerned with the mobsters, than he is with the African Americans and the Communists and anarchists. The mystery behind Ron Livingston's character is intriguing too. I can't imagine Gillian getting that kid. Harrow will kill her.

by Anonymousreply 9511/11/2013

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by Anonymousreply 9611/11/2013

Hoover used to gamble a lot, place bets with Mob people. The gangster Frank Costello used to complain how much it would cost him to make sure Hoover won his five dollar bets. In consideration for this, Hoover turned a blind eye to the mob and even stated unequivocally that there was no such thing as "The Mafia." So I'm very interested to see how this all plays out with the gung-ho agent. (Also there's a rumor that Costello had photographic evidence of Hoover's cross-dressing).

So glad they didn't kill off Chalky last night. This is the best thing the actor's done since The Wire.

by Anonymousreply 9711/11/2013

I wonder how far the series will take us. Mazaria and a rival of his, Maranzano, who we haven't seen yet, both get assassinated by Luciano and Lansky in 1931, and Prohibition ends in 1933.

Arnold Rothstein is killed in 1928. Nucky goes to jail for tax evasion in the 40's. Capone goes away in the 30's. I love mob history.

IMO, they could end the series with the assassination of the two most powerful old dons in 1931, and do a photo montage of Luciano, Lansky, etc. as the beginning of a new era. Or they could wait and use Prohibition's defeat as the end of an era. Someone call Marty Scorcese for me?

by Anonymousreply 9811/12/2013

Started out a bit slow, but is turning out to be a very strong season.

I am bothered a bit that Capone has become such a cutout, he had a lot more depth and emotional resonance in the early seasons when his issues with his deaf kid were addressed.

by Anonymousreply 9911/12/2013

I agree, R99. He's apparently evolving into the pig he must have been towards the end. I wonder when Frank Nitti will be introduced. I mean, you can't have Capone without his "enforcer" Nitti.

by Anonymousreply 10011/12/2013

Who is the old guy whose eyes go in different directions again? Mickey isn't dead yet, either.

by Anonymousreply 10111/13/2013

[quote]Who is the old guy whose eyes go in different directions again?

That's Joe Mazaria, right?

by Anonymousreply 10211/13/2013

I think he means Al Capone's boss, Johnny Torrio (who seems to be trying to get rid of Al, if the last episode was any indication).

by Anonymousreply 10311/13/2013

We have four big deaths coming up. Johnny Torrio, Mazaria, Ferranzano, and Arnold Rothstein. This is historic fact.

Now, they all died around 1928-1931. I think in the series it's 1924, but it seems like time is passing awfully slow.

I will make a prediction. It seems to me, that Daughter is going to die. I think Narcisse will kill her, and Chalky will kill Narcisse. I sincerely hope that Narcisse doesn't mess with Chalky's kids. I have a bad feeling about his son. I have a bad feeling about Eli's son.

by Anonymousreply 10411/13/2013

Eli's son Willie is hot to death. We need to see him naked, forthwith. Or at least shirtless again.

by Anonymousreply 10511/13/2013

Only two episodes left!

by Anonymousreply 10611/14/2013

I meant Meranzano, gets killed. I wish someone had spoilers so I knew how it ended this season. Someone had to have seen it already. DL used to have a lot of little insiders but now we know no one. The only people who post here are clerks.

by Anonymousreply 10711/14/2013

Is it just two episodes left? Then on one hand I think it's been an awful season because Margaret has done shit and Gillian, sort of a sick, twisted comic relief, hasn't done much either.

On the other hand I've found this season totally compelling.... far less blood and guts but every character has had me glued and I've no explanation for it.

Huh, only two episodes. Fucking loving this show this year.

by Anonymousreply 10811/14/2013

I think the last two episodes are going to be doozies. Everything is leading toward some terrible awful thing. And I don't mean chocolate pies laced with shit.

by Anonymousreply 10911/15/2013

I hope Daughter is alright. I love her singing. I am worried about Chalky's kids.

by Anonymousreply 11011/15/2013

Why did they bring Margaret back? What a drip!

by Anonymousreply 11111/15/2013

I love love love Anatol Yusef, who plays Meyer Lansky. Like the actors who play Al Capone and Richard Harrow, he's English, though you'd never be able to tell.

by Anonymousreply 11211/15/2013

I think the guy who plays Luciano is a hot little piece.

by Anonymousreply 11311/15/2013

Why is her name Daughter? Does anybody know anybody named Daughter?

by Anonymousreply 11411/15/2013

I had no idea that Jack Huston was born/raised in the UK.

by Anonymousreply 11511/15/2013

I just assumed the doc calls her "daughter" because he sees her as his own child (as sick as that might seem) and also shed her past as the daughter of the whore who the doc killed.

by Anonymousreply 11611/15/2013

It's still a pretentious name, R116.

Maitland is a pretty name, however. It sounds too contemporary, though.

by Anonymousreply 11711/15/2013

After season 2 the show just lost it's vibe, partly due to an aimless story, partly due to losing a vital character (Jimmy Darmondy) who was actually the spirit of the show, and partly due to two dimensional characters such as Gyp Rosetti. I sat through the whole crappy third season waiting for it to get better and it never did. The fourth season is only slightly better than the third, but it is still basically an aimless storyline.

by Anonymousreply 11811/15/2013

I wonder if the name "Daughter" is derived from the fact that, in the old days, if a name was not yet chosen for an infant at the time of discharge from the maternity ward, they would simply fill in "Female" Smith, etc. I would imagine the term "daughter" may have been used similarly. They used to joke about how sometimes whatever the placeholder name on the birth certificate was would become permanent because nobody bothered to change it.

by Anonymousreply 11911/15/2013

Glllian is leathal. I have a bad feeling about Ron Livingston's future. I'd pick him for the Big Adios before I'd believe anything bad happens to Gillian. She's a scary girl.

by Anonymousreply 12011/16/2013

OK, ladies! This is the second to the last episode for the season. If things follow the pattern established in the previous three seasons, what can we expect tonight?

Anyone? Anyone?

by Anonymousreply 12111/17/2013

Last night was a snore.

by Anonymousreply 12211/18/2013

Gillian was arrested after admitting to murder. Now, who hired the Pinkertons? Also want to know how Narcisse's people, if it was them, tracked Chalky to his hideout.

I'm glad at least one thing was resolved last night. I can't see Gillian getting custody of the little boy. Did Ron Livingston really shoot that guy or was it staged for Gillian?

I think Nucky is putting things together about Eli.

by Anonymousreply 12311/18/2013

[quote] OK, ladies!

Annoying!

by Anonymousreply 12411/18/2013

I also think Nucky is getting suspicious. Eli freaked over the insurance story but barely blinked when Nucky recited that silly poem to him.

Please don't kill Chalky.

by Anonymousreply 12511/18/2013

Haven't gone through the thread, but is this one where someone told us a while back what would happen to Jillian?

Someone said they knew a person who worked on the set.

by Anonymousreply 12611/18/2013

Oh, I think Nucky knows that something is very awry with both Eli and Agent Knox. You could tell he was already putting the pieces together between Eli's reactions and the story about the insurance salesman. Stupid, Nucky is not.

Is that how Gillian is going out?

Chalky's storyline was at a stasis last night. I was bored.

by Anonymousreply 12711/18/2013

I find it pretty implausible that Nucky got anything out of that innocuous story about the insurance salesman. Very contrived.

by Anonymousreply 12911/18/2013

No it wasn't contrived, R129.

It was Eli's reaction to that innocuous story that got Nucky thinking. And when you're constantly having to watch your back, you pay closer attention to details.

by Anonymousreply 13011/18/2013

Yes but Nucky is sharp and tested Eli w/that poem.

Anyway, I will really miss Gillian. That certainly was an elaborate ruse. Why did she even admit to that murder to her "potential husband"?

She was like a caged animal at the end.

She was sort of trapped into killing that boy to get the ownership of the house to support herself. Really Gillian had limited options..

by Anonymousreply 13111/18/2013

I still want to know who hired the Pinkertons. I hope Jillian's not over. Maybe she'll be sent to a nut house, and, in time, she'll figure out a way to get out. She really is one of the more interesting characters, even if she's a monster. It looked like Tony Soprano's Uncle Junior turned her in. Her own lawyer.

Nucky knows something's wrong with Eli. That's why he told Eli to set up the meeting. Nucky has something up his sleeve. I think he'll find a way to get Chalky home, and make peace with him.

Are Knox & Eli really that dumb to think they can sweep all these gangsters up by putting them in one room? Like none of the gangsters will suspect a thing? What becomes of Eli if that really goes down? He'd have no future.

Remember how Nucky asked Willie if he recognized the insurance man? He knows something is up. Now he's on high alert.

by Anonymousreply 13211/18/2013

[quote]I still want to know who hired the Pinkertons.

Likely the boy's family. Harrow doesn't have that kind of money and Nuckie had no reason to want her arrested.

[quote]I can't see Gillian getting custody of the little boy.

Neither could she. She essentially gave up on that last night when she gave him the dog tags and told Harrow to take good care of him. That`s also why she accepted to go off to California with the detective.

by Anonymousreply 13311/18/2013

"Did Ron Livingston really shoot that guy or was it staged for Gillian?"

No, and yes.

"Now, who hired the Pinkertons?"

I thought it was clear that Dominic Chianese's character hired them, otherwise why would he have been there at her arrest. He was obviously in on the ruse. In all likelihood he will gain control over the Commodore's assets/estate.

by Anonymousreply 13411/18/2013

I don't know if Dominic hired the Pinkertons, but he certainly was cooperating with them. Did I miss something?

And didn't he already have control of the Commodore's money? Gillian didn't control it. She had the house, but she could barely afford it. I wonder if we'll ever find out about the young man she murdered.

by Anonymousreply 13511/18/2013

[quote] I wonder if we'll ever find out about the young man she murdered.

Wasn't that the guy that she seduced who looked just like her son/lover? She was pretty stoned at the time if I recall and the "young man" was a Jimmy doppelganger. More incestuous craziness.

by Anonymousreply 13611/18/2013

[quote]She was pretty stoned at the time if I recall and the "young man" was a Jimmy doppelganger. More incestuous craziness.

She wasn't stoned. She wasn't doing heroin yet (that came the night of the big shoot out, when she tried to stick Bobby Canavale's character with heroin and he turned the needle on her). She did get the kid stoned (she picked him up on the Boardwalk) and drowned him in the bathtub.

She chose him on purpose because he resembled Jimmy and without Jimmy's body (his body was never found... he just disappeared)she could not inherit the house (or have control of it... since the son would inherit).

by Anonymousreply 13711/18/2013

R137, I agree with you except I thought Gillian started doing drugs before Bobby Canavale came on the scene.

by Anonymousreply 13811/19/2013

Gillian wasn't doing drugs before she was shot up by Bobby C. That was the beginning of her drug dependence. Prior to that she used it to kill the Jimmy look-a-like and tried to kill Bobby with it.

by Anonymousreply 13911/19/2013

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by Anonymousreply 14011/19/2013

It's a TV show, not real life. Get a fucking grip, R141.

by Anonymousreply 14211/19/2013

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by Anonymousreply 14311/19/2013

R141... I am a gal! Blushing that u guessed.

But if u consider she had limited options to support herself and Harrow/ grandson/her would have been kicked to the curb...what could she do? Why is it ok for Harrow to kill and she is judged more harshly?

Trolldar may not work as I am typing on my IPad. But I am 131 the man hater ...

by Anonymousreply 14411/19/2013

[quote]The television show wasn't the point, [R142]. Now go make me a fucking sandwich.

Not the point. There are no heroes or angels on this show. Everybody is in shades of gray and all have done immoral and/or criminal things for various reasons and rationalizations. That's what makes the show interesting. In the scheme of things, Gillian is on the low end of evil characters and most of the men on this show have killed scores of people for a lot less.

Now go ask your mother to make your sandwich.

by Anonymousreply 14511/19/2013

[quote] I find it pretty implausible that Nucky got anything out of that innocuous story about the insurance salesman. Very contrived.

On second thought it was more contrived that Eli's wife even brought up this anecdote at the table, and even sillier she would conveniently refer to the salesman being "babyfaced" (or whatever it was she called him).

by Anonymousreply 14611/19/2013

is there any possibility that the insurance man that Harrow killed in the first episode is somehow connected to bigger story?

by Anonymousreply 14711/19/2013

If you were paying attention, I thought they strongly hinted Leander (Dominic Chianese's character) had hired Pinkertons. Obviously there's the fact that he was at the scene with the detectives, but there was also a line where he said something like "I couldn't let you get away with it for Louis' sake".

Louis was the Commodore's first name. He was privy to Gillian's scheme to kill the kid and pass it off as Jimmy, and my guess is he strongly suspected Jimmy and Gillian's involvement in the Commodore's death. This was his revenge on her for killing the Commodore, who he was ultimately loyal to.

by Anonymousreply 14811/19/2013

what are you talking about r147? insurance man?

by Anonymousreply 14911/19/2013

r147 is referring to this scene from Episode 1 season 4.

I don't know if this is part of a larger plot but it was a great scene,

by Anonymousreply 15011/19/2013

I think R147 is talking about the guy Harrow killed at his sister's farm.

OK. So now, if Gillian is convicted of murdering the young guy, does Leander get the house? Does it become his estate or does it become Gillian's grandson's inheritance? I think Gillian had more than one reason for wanting to regain custody of her grandson, and maybe it was tied to her claim on the estate?

Eli's already shown Nucky he's capable of betrayal. While Nucky seems to have forgiven him, and does loves him, I don't think Nucky will ever fully trust him again, and he's always watching him.

As for Eli's silly wife,I think she's just a blabbermouth babbling to make dinner conversation. She probably thought she was complimenting her husband for getting insurance to look out for his family, not spilling on the FBI. I wonder if Nucky will ever find out the link between Knox and Eddie's suicide. You can tell Nucky misses Eddie.

by Anonymousreply 15111/19/2013

this is r147, I was talking about the scene in r150 link.

Mr. Werner from the insurance company. I was wondering because the scene had such impact but the story didn't seem to go anywhere and I was wondering if it was part of a larger story.

thanks r150 for the link

by Anonymousreply 15211/19/2013

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by Anonymousreply 15311/19/2013

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by Anonymousreply 15411/19/2013

I guess I'm in the minority in that I liked the Chalky/Lou Gosset Jr. scenes. Unsettling.

Can someone remind me exactly why Harrow hates Gillian so much?

by Anonymousreply 15511/19/2013

guess all of youtube is down r150 but I remember that scene well sort of "millers crossing" I would be surprised if they took that much time on a scene that had no further story but we will see.

I feel mixed about this season so far. Highs and Lows.. Sad Dunn is gone.

by Anonymousreply 15611/19/2013

R148 is correct. My friend, who was one of the main stand-ins on it, confirmed it. He also told me next season will fast forward to 1928 and the first episode will be Rothstein's death.

by Anonymousreply 15711/19/2013

Did I miss them killing Mickey? I don't remember seeing it.

by Anonymousreply 15811/19/2013

loved the Chalky scene with Lous Gossett jr. Thanks for the link @ r150 I also thought the "Mr. Werner" scene was part of a larger story but I guess not.

Killer scene though, no pun intended.

Have noticed that the best overall episodes tend to be directed by Tim Van Patten but he has been directing less this year, or so it seems

by Anonymousreply 15911/19/2013

Everything has come together for Richard, Marriage, Tommy ect..........so he is going to die this week.

by Anonymousreply 16011/19/2013

Not necessarily. He could be ascendant. I expect Harrow and Van Alden to survive. I wonder about Eli.

by Anonymousreply 16111/19/2013

[quote]Can someone remind me exactly why Harrow hates Gillian so much?

Richard loved Jimmy's wife Angela. Gillian, of course, hated Angela (jealousy), and when she was murdered, Gillian made a concerted effort to have Tommy forget his mother, to the point of forbidding Richard from talking to Tommy about her. Richard also hates Gillian for raising Tommy in a whorehouse filled with mobsters, which almost got Tommy killed. Tommy still has trouble sleeping because of this.

by Anonymousreply 16211/19/2013

[quote]Everything has come together for Richard, Marriage, Tommy ect..........so he is going to die this week.

In the preview of the finale, there's a quick shot of Richard walking up to his home in Wisconsin, with his wife, father-in-law, sister, brother-in-law, and newborn niece/nephew all sitting on the porch. People are speculating that this is Richard's last image as he's dying--returning home to all his loved ones who are waiting for him. I'm hoping it's simply a dream (if it was Richard's idyllic "happy ending", then why does his house still look like a shack?), but the speculation is making me uneasy.

by Anonymousreply 16311/19/2013

I thought Sunday night totally lost momentum.

Does anybody know why Kelly Macdonald has been so underused this season?

by Anonymousreply 16411/19/2013

I thought Kelly MacDonald had a kid in real life and so this season was sort of limited for her.

by Anonymousreply 16511/19/2013

I think Al Capone is going to wipe his nose with his hand.

by Anonymousreply 16611/19/2013

He already did that.

by Anonymousreply 16711/19/2013

According to my stand-in friend she doesn't like living in NY and prefers to live in Scotland and London. He said she's pleasant but distant.

by Anonymousreply 16811/19/2013

who is the actor playing opposite Jack Huston in the link r150 posted?

by Anonymousreply 16911/19/2013

Thanks R162.

by Anonymousreply 17011/19/2013

r169, the actor in the scene r150 posted is James Riordan.

by Anonymousreply 17111/19/2013

I liked the season more in the beginning than I do now. I kind of feel the Pinkerton twist with Gillian was kind of out of left field.

Does this mean Gretchen Mol is leaving the show?

Obviously Rothstein and the other historically accurate characters are "safe" unless they simply fade in the background.

Harrow was underused this season. I don't know after the first two episodes I had high hopes but it has kind of lost me

by Anonymousreply 17211/19/2013

I just hope nothing happens to Willie. I wouldn't mind Eli getting killed so Willie can take his place.

I still want Willie's big uncut cock in me fucking me missionary as I rub my hands through his curly hair.

Am I wrong for that?

Also for the record, I hope Chalky survives. I could tolerate Richard getting killed but wouldn't like it.

And where the hell did "Blue Tick" Daughter go? She just left? Just started walking in the middle of nowhere down a darkened road with NO fleshlight.

by Anonymousreply 17311/20/2013

R123 - Leander Whitlock (Gillian's elderly, mutton-chop-sporting adviser) hired the Pinkertons. He said so before Gillian freaked out, "I owed Louis (the Commodore) something."

I know Gillian is beyond fucked-up, but between the writing and Gretchen Mol's performance, that character was really compelling and sympathetic this season. The fact that it was Leander who hired the Pinkertons was particularly cruel. I think last season it was implied that, after The Commodore was done with Gillian when she was kid, he passed her around to his friends, including Leander. This guy had a direct hand in making her what she is and this is what he does to her.

by Anonymousreply 17411/20/2013

r158, I missed it too, probably because it never happened? Your comment seems to come out of he blue and no one answered it, so I assume it isn't true. Thanks for the misinformation, though.

by Anonymousreply 17511/20/2013

[quote]Just started walking in the middle of nowhere down a darkened road with NO fleshlight.

It was a simpler time...

by Anonymousreply 17611/20/2013

I bet Daughter was killed by the gunmen who tried to ambush Chalky. Remember, she just walked off a short time before they started shooting. So they either had to be approaching the house, or lying in wait out in the bushes.

I believe they probably slit her throat. Which gives Chalky another reason to kill Narcisse, and possibly aim for Nucky as well. Things are going to get very messy at the last episode.

There's the meeting Eli is setting up, and there's the whole Chalky storyline getting ready to collide with Narcisse and Nucky unless Nucky reaches out to him.

I predict that a lot of people will die, who are important to the story, so next season it makes sense to accelerate to storyline to 1928 as someone up thread suggested.

by Anonymousreply 17711/20/2013

R99 I agree about Capone. The scene with his deaf kid last season was a highlight. Now he seems more cartoonish.

Some of you really called it about Ron Livingston (Piggly Wiggly). That was a nicely dramatic scene in a very low-key episode. Gretchen Mol will be missed by some of us - so beautiful and talented. And I guess we won't see Piggly much anymore either.

The other big drama moment was Eli shouting down his wife and humiliating her (ouch!). A major cringe moment

by Anonymousreply 17811/20/2013

You do know there was once a real Mr. Pinkerton and he was Abraham Lincoln's spymaster.

by Anonymousreply 17911/20/2013

I hate it, but at the same time love it, when characters get killed off, because it shows a real sense of jeopardy. I love me some Chaulky, but if he bites it. I'm okay, however I do want that pig Narcisse to get his.

by Anonymousreply 18011/20/2013

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by Anonymousreply 18111/20/2013

[quote] Wasn't there another way to have caught her? It just seemed very soap opera'ish.

I agree, and when the prior poster who claimed to have inside knowledge of the show had said that the guy was an undercover detective, I was hoping he was just an attention-seeking troll making shit up. Really a silly contrivance.

by Anonymousreply 18211/20/2013

R75, at least two prior posters have mentioned Mickey being killed, so that is why it keeps being mentioned.

by Anonymousreply 18311/20/2013

[quote]I bet Daughter was killed by the gunmen who tried to ambush Chalky

Except that when Oscar yelled out "What do you want?" their answer was "The Girl!" They wouldn't have asked for her if they had just just killed her.

by Anonymousreply 18411/20/2013

Are you sure that's what they said? I didn't hear that. Of course she still could've been shot during the gunfight. Maybe Chalky will find her dead or wounded. Wounded would be good. The Soap opera continues.

by Anonymousreply 18511/20/2013

What does it say about a show where most viewers don't know what is going on unless they hear it from someone who works on the set?

by Anonymousreply 18611/20/2013

[quote]I know Gillian is beyond fucked-up, but between the writing and Gretchen Mol's performance, that character was really compelling and sympathetic this season.

I kept waiting for her to kill again... never found her sympathetic once... I was sure she was always coiled to strike but she never did. Still, agree entirely the writing and acting were terrific.

by Anonymousreply 18711/20/2013

Gretchen Mol is awesome in that performance. I like the snake analogy. Yes. She is very unpredictable and manic. She plays Gillian very well. They can't get rid of her!

by Anonymousreply 18811/20/2013

Except, like Margaret now, what does she really do? The women in this show, save the healthy figured Daughter, are quite isolated.

by Anonymousreply 18911/20/2013

I Gretchen reminds me of Cathy Ames in East of Eden. In fact she'd be perfect. Too bad they're doing a remake with Jennifer Lawrence of all people as Cathy. Awful choice. I have nothing against Jennifer, but she is totally unsuited for that role.

Ever since Eddie died, Nucky seems distracted. Like he's in a fog. He needs to wake up. I think he blames Chalky for the problem of valentine Narcisse, but Narcisse would've found his way to Atlantic City without the nightclub and without Chalky.

by Anonymousreply 19011/20/2013

If Daughter is dead, Narcisse will blame Chalky and he may seek vengeance on Chalky's kids. Lord I pray.

by Anonymousreply 19111/20/2013

"Inside the Episode" appears on HBO's website after each Sunday night episode. The writers or producers discuss the episode and give insights into what happened and why.

It seems that Blue Tick Daughter is just gone. Their midnight scene where they say at daybreak they go was a recognition by both that the affair was over.

I think Eli gets killed. Mafia rule #1 - If you become a rat, you swim with the fishies. Just ask Big Pussy.

by Anonymousreply 19211/21/2013

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by Anonymousreply 19311/21/2013

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by Anonymousreply 19411/21/2013

I can't imagine them killing Eli. I hope Eli will end up telling Nucky what's going on, and they'll kill Knox. From the way he treats him, I don't think Hoover will miss him.

The main thing is, Chalky and Nucky have to make peace. You also have to factor in Masaria. He's Narcisse's partner in the heroin trade. Narcisse is his prime distributor. So if Narcisse is killed, how does that sit with Masaria.

There's a strong case for killing off Eli, but It's a very predictable. Somehow I don't think that's how it goes down. I have to wonder though, how in the world will the writers make it authentic, and real, for Eli to continue to live, if he ends up betraying Nucky. I think Eli ends up killing Knox.

Knox has insinuated himself into Nucky's world and created serious trouble. Nucky may not be aware of his role in Eddie's death,yet, but I bet Knox makes an off handed comment to either Eli or Nucky, verifying it.

What I'd really love, is for Nucky to never really confirm the depth of Eli's betrayal, and Eli just guns Knox down and tells Nucky "he came after my family. I had to."

by Anonymousreply 19511/21/2013

None of us could have imagined that they would actually kill off Jimmy but they did.

Rats, if discovered, get killed in the Mafia. Period. Nucky has already figured out that Eli is the "skunk in the basement."

The only way Eli survives is if he kills Knox before this mess gets worse. If they loosely follow history in this, J. Edgar Hoover, didn't focus on the mafia until about a decade later. In the 20's, Hoover focused on bank robbers. So Knox "disappearing" might not be a big deal to Hoover.

I'll miss Gaston Means. They followed history with him being arrested for pergery. If next season picks up a few years down the road, Means may be back. He only served two or three years for the pergery. He got out to swindle some more before finally being put away for good in the mid 1930s. Then, Gaston Means dies in prison.

by Anonymousreply 19611/21/2013

Someone needs open vowel sergery.

by Anonymousreply 19711/21/2013

I'm looking forward to the spin-off series, WILLIE GETS NAKED.

by Anonymousreply 19811/21/2013

pergery?

Oh, dear!

Here,love, try this: PERJURY.

R197, I fear you are too subtle.

by Anonymousreply 19911/21/2013

Oh I thought Jimmy's days were numbered, I just didn't think Nucky would be so directly, personally involved. Eli has to kill Knox. That's the only way he can get out of this mess. The Valentin Narcisse problem is a little more complicated.

by Anonymousreply 20011/21/2013

I'm "oh dearing" myself for the pergery/perjury typo.

Embarrassed as I type.

by Anonymousreply 20111/21/2013

My stand-in friend told me he heard that next season might actually take place in the 1930s. By doing that Gillian could be released from prison by that point and we'd see Al Capone in his heyday. And Tommy Darmody along with the Schroder kids would be teenagers. He also said that Eli will definitely be there until the end. Michael Pitt's on set behavior was the sole reason for Jimmy's demise. The actor who plays Eli (Shea Wigham) is highly professional and Terrence Winter and his writing team won't kill him off before the series finale. And don't be surprised if Paz de la Huerta returns as Lucy next season, too. De la Huerta's batshit crazy behavior has apparently simmered down now to the point where they'd consider bringing her back.

by Anonymousreply 20211/21/2013

If Eli gets to live, why the hell am I swimming with the fishes?

by Anonymousreply 20311/22/2013

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by Anonymousreply 20411/22/2013

If me and my stand-in are so full of shit, R204, then did I get it wrong when early in this thread I revealed the spoiler that the Ron Livingston character was there the whole time to nail Gillian for murdering Roger?

by Anonymousreply 20511/22/2013

I don't think you're full of shit, R205. Keep coming with the insider stuff. I do hope you're wrong about them starting the new season in the 30's. Yes, BE's about Atlantic City, and Nucky, and how he interacts with all these famous, outside forces, and the changes going on in Atlantic City.

But the assassination of Rothstein and Masaria, the ascendancy of Capone, Luciano, and Lansky, can't be stuff they deal with retrospectively. Those developments were really big deals, that had a lasting impact.

I wonder if the series will end when Prohibition ends. If I were looking at a good place to wrap this saga, that's good place to end it. After that the graft continued, the corruption continued, but eventually, the man Nucky's character is based on goes to jail. Luciano, Lanksy, and even Capone die of old age, with Capone doing time in Prison for tax evasion courtesy of Elliot Ness.

by Anonymousreply 20611/23/2013

I don't think the real Nucky was in prison for long but he probably lost all his money.

by Anonymousreply 20711/23/2013

Did the real Nucky have a nephew as hot as Willie?

by Anonymousreply 20811/23/2013

They can't not show what happens in 1928. That's when Rothstein gets killed. Shortly after, Masaria. Then Luciano and Lanksy start to consolidate power.

by Anonymousreply 20911/24/2013

I've only caught this show a time or two, who is the the guy who wears the mask over his face all the time and goes around shooting everybody?

by Anonymousreply 21011/24/2013

Agree with r209 Historically, 1928 is an important year for the shows themes and characters it would be a mistake to skip over it.

I don't know if I am in the minority believing that Season 4 opened with a fantastic first episode that hinted and promised all sorts of exciting things and then failed to deliver on them as the season progressed.

I hope the writers take advantage of the rich events of 28 to give the show the shot in the arm I thought it was getting after watching New York Sour, first ep of this season.

by Anonymousreply 21111/24/2013

He is Angelica Huston's nephew R210.

by Anonymousreply 21211/24/2013

R206, R209 and R211, my stand-in friend said that what he's heard is that next season (its last) will be considerably shortened. It could even be shortened to as few as 8 episodes compared to the usual 13. There's no way they can cover all the events you have referenced. With a significant time jump to the 1930s the show can telescope the core characters' storylines-enough time will have passed for Margaret to somehow return to Nucky, a teen Tommy can seek revenge for Harrow, Gillian could be released from prison, Eli could be in a very different status, etc. And we'd finally witness Capone at full throttle. It sounds like a smart move on their part.

by Anonymousreply 21311/24/2013

Capone goes to jail in 1931. Tommy won't be a teenager yet.

by Anonymousreply 21411/24/2013

The season finale leaves too many open ends for them to jump to the 1930s (though they may, it would just make for bad plot).

Why have Narcisse become an informant for the feds? Eli's career in Chicago should be explored. The Florida land Boom and Bust(Nuckie just bought a lot of land there) and Willie's future. Also with Margaret working at a stock brokers, it would be a waste to skip over the crash.

Too bad that Harrow was killed off. He was one of the few remaining interesting characters along with jail bound Gillian.

by Anonymousreply 21511/24/2013

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by Anonymousreply 21611/25/2013

Great interview with Jack Huston on Richard's death.

[quote]What one realizes about tragic characters is the moment they get everything, that's the moment they die. When everything you've ever wanted happens for you, that's when everything starts to go wrong. It's inevitably going to be the end. And he had an honorable death. Richard knew he wasn't going to come back from this. Before Jimmy went to his death, he goes, "This is something I have to do." He chose to die. And I think Richard was doing the same thing. He knew he was going to his death.

by Anonymousreply 21711/25/2013

I think the finale fizzled a bit. The build-up episodes made it look like it was going to be a classic, instead it turned out fairly mediocre. And I personally was getting sick of half-face, sure glad it wasn't Chalky instead. And this season had some incredibly boring episodes. I'll watch season 5, but it's not like I'm dying to. A year away? Who cares.

by Anonymousreply 21811/25/2013

[quote]My stand-in friend told me he heard that next season might actually take place in the 1930s. By doing that Gillian could be released from prison by that point and we'd see Al Capone in his heyday.

Al Capone didn't have much "heyday" after 1930, unless you want to count his heyday shank-dodging in Alcatraz. Besides, jumping into the '30s next season would mean that the show would have to skip over Arnold Rothstein's downfall and 1928 murder, as well as Capone's war with Bugs Moran, which came to a head with the St Valentine's Day Massacre in 1929. And it's unlikely that Gillian will ever get out of prison, but if she does, it won't be in the early 30s. Or late 30s, for that matter.

by Anonymousreply 21911/25/2013

The next (and final) season will lead up to in 1929, to take advantage of the market crash.

by Anonymousreply 22011/25/2013

[quote]If me and my stand-in are so full of shit, [R204], then did I get it wrong when early in this thread I revealed the spoiler that the Ron Livingston character was there the whole time to nail Gillian for murdering Roger?

That was no spoiler; people started making that speculation within his first two episodes.

by Anonymousreply 22111/25/2013

I can't find it now but over lunch at work I read Gillian is back for season 5... not quite sure how but that's what I read.

by Anonymousreply 22211/25/2013

I missed part of Hoover's interview/interrogation/coercion of Narcise. Did he threaten to charge him with Knox's/Tolliver's murder? What was that about?

by Anonymousreply 22311/25/2013

Yes, R223. He basically said don't do as I say and I'll frame you and you're fucked.

The thing that has me intrigued is how gleeful and giddy Rothstein looked when he was introducing Margaret to her new place. It was odd.

by Anonymousreply 22411/25/2013

Thanks R224.

by Anonymousreply 22511/26/2013

I'm expecting Season 5 to lead up to the Crash of 1929 (if it's an abbreviated season) or begin with the Crash, showing the characters dealing with it in various ways. *SPOILER BELOW* Very sorry to see Richard Harrow go. But it was a beautifully done finish for him (and we got to see his fully handsome face). Let's hope Gillian somehow stays in the show too. I'm a fan of Jeffry Wright and his "Dr Narcisse"..expect a lot more from him in Season 5

by Anonymousreply 22611/26/2013

As I see it, 1928 is a major transitional year with the death of Rothstein, and the ascendance of Capone now that Torrio's out. The Capone storyline is going to be fairly important, because Eli is in Chicago.

Then you have The Crash of 1929, and the gradual settling in of The Great Depression. This has to affect all the principal characters, since Atlantic City was a resort playground.

In 1931, Massaria is assassinated, 1932 Roosevelt is elected, and Repeal of Prohibition is a plank in the Democratic platform. By the end of 1933, Prohibition is over. So hopefully, the next season will start in 1928.

I don't think Narcisse will be a regular. He may make two or three appearances, but you know the reckoning between him and Chalky was merely postponed, not cancelled, so there's a storyline there.

I have to wonder if Margaret will make a few appearances next year. At least until Rothstein's murder. Seems to me they've left so many loose ends, they can hardly introduce a new character like a Gyp Rossetti this time.

I predict they'll flesh out and give more prominence to characters we've already met. Personally I want to see more of Lanksy, Luciano and Rothstein next year. I love Van Alden.He and Capone are almost comic relief right now. I think that will change next year.

by Anonymousreply 22711/26/2013

All good ideas, R227, but my stand-in friend insists he heard Terence Winter say on set at video village that next season will only be 8 episodes and will probably be set in the 1930s so core characters like Gillian can remain viable. She can't in a prison storyline. Enough time has to pass so that perhaps it's plausible that a corrupt judge could set her free. Massaria and even Rothstein aren't fundamentally core characters. If there are only 8 episodes the focus will have to be on Nucky, Eli, Gillian, Van Alden, Margaret, Luciano and Capone.

by Anonymousreply 22811/26/2013

Capone is over by the 1930s, r228.

by Anonymousreply 22911/26/2013

I just want to be clear on what the writers are telling me happened here. So let me get this straight.

Leander Whitlock, the elderly, muttonchopped attorney and former friend of the Commodore, contacted the Pinkerton Detective Agency to investigate the murder of Roger McAllister and the misidentification of his body as that of Jimmy Darmody, resulting in Gillian Darmody fraudulently inheriting the Commodore's estate. Leander did this out of loyalty to his old friend Louis, the Commodore... Okay. I'm with you, Boardwalk writers.

Now let's continue this storyline.

So... their strategy was basically this: Introduce a love interest into Gillian's life, a grocery store executive, who develops a months-long romance with her, presumably billing Leander for all of these hours.

Okay, a tad convoluted, but I'm game.

So the Pinkerton detective, under the guise of Roy Phillips, Piggly Wiggly executive extraordinaire, decides to court Gillian and win her affection like this: First, pretend to be interested in buying the house, then, asking her to pretend to be his wife to impress a coworker, then helping her detox from heroin, then continues the ruse for weeks or months on end by getting her to fall in love with him, then by pretending to propose marriage, then by asking her to move away with him, then pretends to murder the former coworker, who is actually a fellow detective, and then claims he should confess to the police.

And all of this, this month-long saga, was all part of an elaborate plan to make Gillian, at that precise moment, confess her own crimes regarding her son's death to him. How could they possibly think that would work?

And the confession they were banking on was so well executed and planned - that the other detectives decided to hide just beneath the staircase - and Leander Whitlock hid just above the staircase - lying silently in wait, inside Gillian's own house, so that they could emerge at that precise moment, busting Gillian in person - just to explain to her and the omniscient watching audience - that this was their plan all along, who they were, and why this all happened, just the way it did.

Um, does anyone else think this plot twist was a tad... contrived? Or is it just me? I preferred the theory that he was a closeted homosexual using Gillian as a beard.

by Anonymousreply 23011/28/2013

What good is her confession without multiple impartial witnesses? This is before recording equipment could be covertly used. Having her confess that day on the boardwalk or over dinner would be useless in court.

I guess my biggest hang-up isn't with the months-long romantic con game - but rather the bust itself.

Roy says, "Did you get all that?" and all the detectives emerge right on cue. And Whitlock appears atop the stairs. It was like the end of a Scooby Doo episode, where the villain is unmasked, the entire plot is explained to the camera, and the villain is dragged away, cursing the "meddling kids."

Just imagine - what if she hadn't confessed right at that moment?

"Roy, don't confess to the police! There's something I have to tell you about my son's death. But first, let me walk downstairs for like 3 feet and... wait, who are all these men in my house? And why is Whitlock here? Hey wait, isn't that the guy you just shot?"

Cover blown, whole thing crashes. Seems like a bizarre gamble that she would confess right on cue like that. The whole concept really stretched the believability for me. And it's a shame the Gillian Darmody storyline ended like that. It had so much potential. They built this villainous character up for so long. Incestuous, murderous, cruel, manipulative, controlling, the audience couldn't wait to see her crash - then they humanize her with a heroin addiction, make you feel sympathetic for her, then end her story with this bizarre twist. It's just not good writing for me, I'm sorry.

by Anonymousreply 23111/28/2013

I've really enjoyed this season. All slow burn and none of that over-the-top Gyp Rossetti crap.

But I gotta give it to you on the Gillian storyline. Contrived to the point where it wouldn't pass muster on L&O. I'm happy she's in jail and I'm just gonna try to forget how she got there.

by Anonymousreply 23211/28/2013

The latest from my stand-in friend is that HBO is considering a spin-off series focusing on Capone and his reign of terror. They are also possibly shooting two 8 episode seasons from late March until Christmas with a month-long break in between. This is the same thing that Mad Men is doing.

And my stand-in insists that all department heads have been told that there will be a significant time jump, most likely to 1930 or 1931. This is necessary for storyline purposes because the Depression would be in full swing, Gillian could be released from prison (from a technicality involving a corrupt judge), Dr. Narcisse would have served his abbreviated term, Willie will be 6 years older and played by an older actor (most likely British or Australian, of course) and Tommy will be a young teen out to avenge Harrow's death.

by Anonymousreply 23312/26/2013

I missed the last three or four episodes...who killed Harrow?

by Anonymousreply 23412/26/2013

He killed himself after accidentally killing Chalky's daughter. She got in his crosshairs as he was attempting to kill Narcisse.

by Anonymousreply 23512/26/2013

Oh shit!

Is Chalky still on the show?

by Anonymousreply 23612/26/2013

Harrow didn't kill himself, he was shot in the gun fight after he accidentally shot Chalky's daughter. He went to the ocean and died of his wounds.

by Anonymousreply 23712/26/2013

Chalky's still there, defeated, but still on the show.

by Anonymousreply 23812/26/2013

A time jump to 1930 or 1931 would benefit the Margaret/Nucky storyline, too, because it's inevitable that she be pulled one more time into his orbit for the final go-round. She would be particularly hurt by the crash, having worked for a brokerage firm. Her 5 year rent-free apartment deal would evaporate following Rothstein's death. She'd be on her knees. And she'd find her way back to Nucky as a last resort.

by Anonymousreply 23912/26/2013

R237, You're right. I completely misread that ending. When I saw his fallen mask I assumed it was mimicking the scene seasons earlier when he took off his mask as he contemplated suicide.

by Anonymousreply 24012/26/2013

Are they going to skip the St. Valentines Day massacre and the Capone link?

by Anonymousreply 24112/26/2013

Sure they could, R241. Wouldn't that be a tad obvious? It could also be in the Capone spin-off if it happens.

Another plot benefitting from a time jump would be Clayton getting out of prison and out to settle the score with a now adult Willie for inadvertantly getting him stitched up for Henry's death.

Just rewatched the fantastic season finale and it seems absolutely set up for a significant flash forward.

by Anonymousreply 24212/26/2013

Given the cartoonish way this show exaggerates the violence, they'll kill 700 mobsters on St. valentine's Day instead of seven.

by Anonymousreply 24312/26/2013

Frankly, gangsters are always killing without remorse...it was that way in the 20s and now.

by Anonymousreply 24412/26/2013

Next season, every character gets shot in the face, and everyone will say the show is brilliant.

by Anonymousreply 24501/01/2014

Having sat through all of season 4 [on Sky Atlantic in the UK] I find myself on the whole a bit underwhelmed.

I thought the first installment of series 4 [New York City Sour] was fucking brilliant but then it flagged a bit and sagged into improbability.

For me, perhaps not being American, I don't quite believe the whole Pinkerton thing with Gillian. The story brought to mind something of a false air to it. Dunno, might have been that it was so shocking and cruel, but it seemed like they had another ending in mind and changed lanes at the last minute.

Richard Harrow, my fave character, comes to an end but he was the only character this go round who had a clear story arc. He started out popping a dad pleading for his life and gained a conscience in the bargain. Ended the series and his life killing the innocent with Maybelle and the guilt did him in. Stunning last images of him.

All and all, the first episode, bang on best of the best then..snoooze.

DL'rs in America and parts unknown agree?

Just for colour, here is my fave scene from series 4.

by Anonymousreply 24602/13/2014

agree with r246, the Gillian storyline ended on a false note with the Pinkerton.

However, R246, you seem to be mistaken believing Harrow took his own life he was fatally shot in the Onyx Club and died from that wound.

by Anonymousreply 24702/13/2014

kick ass scene @ r146. Great acting and direction. The Tim Van Patten episodes are always the best BE episodes.

by Anonymousreply 24802/13/2014

actually, the scene @r246 was directed by Martin Scorsese but I agree it is exceptionally acted and directed even by Boardwalk Empire's usually high standard.

It does remind me of the scene from "No Country for Old Men" with Woody Harrelson.

by Anonymousreply 24902/13/2014

anyone know what the year is for season 5 and do they have a short season or regular number of episodes?

by Anonymousreply 25002/13/2014

Hello Praeline Kale @249

These British actors get away with MURDER! How come they can do American accents and you wrote mean things about my accents and my acting.

Btw, I am about to collect my zillionth Oscar. What are you up to?

by Anonymousreply 25102/13/2014

step of M, this thread wasn't even remotely about you.

by Anonymousreply 25202/13/2014

According to my friend who works in the business, they are doing very little casting at the moment. My friend says in late January Early Feb they normally start having sessions for the first episode.

This is how people get the first idea of what the season will be, from the agency casting notices that are supposed to be confidential but so many people see them.

Last season there were several roles being cast, this season only a few wonder what that indicates

by Anonymousreply 25302/13/2014

A friend of mine who went to a costume fitting a few days ago told me that Season 5 will take place in 1931 but there will be numerous flashbacks to cover the years during the time jump. They're only shooting 8 episodes for their final season.

by Anonymousreply 25403/20/2014

The final season begins shooting tomorrow and wraps in August.

by Anonymousreply 25503/30/2014

I saw Patricia Arquette walking to set with a 1930s hairdo so I guess she's in one of the early episodes for next season.

by Anonymousreply 25604/25/2014

I always get a laugh out of how many "friends" Dataloungers have in these various TV shows and movies, particularly so very little of what the posters are claiming these "friends" are saying comes true.

These people would not only need to be friends with the people with intimate knowledge of the productions, they would have to be DL readers on a daily basis and the friends would have to be talking.

Most set people just to wag their tongues that much, especially to casual friends. And that would suggest all of these posters of in-the-know friends would have to be intimately close to the set people.

Sorry, just had to vent that. I'm not buying all the "my friend in the know" nonsense.

by Anonymousreply 25704/25/2014

Wow, that's an entire 7 year jump. Are we going to be following Gillian's descent in women's prison?

by Anonymousreply 25804/25/2014

Your post reeks of ignorance, R257. I have several friends who work as crew members on Boardwalk Empire and a lot of other NY projects. I'm gay and I got on DL when I read somewhere that Michael Musto like it. I anonymously post the stuff I get told. What's the big deal? Why all the silly questioning? Really, dude. Use some common sense and enough with the suspicions already.

I'm told that the final season will have several flashbacks to Nucky as a little boy in the 1880s.

by Anonymousreply 25904/25/2014

My stand-in friend said a lot of the final season will have flashbacks to the 1800s when Nucky was a little boy and when he worked for the Commodore. Mabel (his first wife) will be introduced. And in the 1931 stuff it will be revealed that Daughter is in the loony bin.

by Anonymousreply 26006/08/2014

Gee, it seems I was right about the time jump to 1931, wasn't I?

by Anonymousreply 26109/04/2014

They filmed a lot in Red Hook. Pass by the set all of the time and see the extras. I'm not sure if they're using the warehouses or the cobblestone streets - probably combo of the two.

by Anonymousreply 26309/04/2014

[quote]actually, the scene @[R246] was directed by Martin Scorsese but I agree it is exceptionally acted and directed even by Boardwalk Empire's usually high standard.

It does remind me of the scene from "No Country for Old Men" with Woody Harrelson.

That is not correct. Scorsese did NOT direct the episode the scene R246 is talking about. The episode "New York Sour: was directed by Timothy Van Patten, former teen heart throb.

by Anonymousreply 26409/04/2014

Scorsese only directed the pilot. Nothing else.

by Anonymousreply 26509/07/2014

[quote]actually, the scene @r246 was directed by Martin Scorsese but I agree it is exceptionally acted and directed even by Boardwalk Empire's usually high standard.

Scorcese hasn't directed an episode of Boardwalk Empire since the "pilot" but he is an Executive Producer but is more involved than say, Mark Wahlburg, who is also an executive producer. Not just because Scorcese actually has talent, but because he has a personal interest in Terrence Winter and Tim Van Patten.

Tim Van Patten's episodes of BE are ALWAYS far and away the best. Especially the ones written by Harold Korder.

I thought his Season 5 premiere episode was great. He also directed the season 4 premiere episode which had the strongest scenes of the entire season.

Harrow's death scene from the last episode and Harrow killing the roller skate dad [Werner] from the first episode [r246 link] were the best of the season, and some of the best of the series as a whole, both were directed by Van Patten and written by Korder.

I was dubious about how the show would handle the loss of Harrow but having watched the season 5 premiere I am hopeful that this use of the flashbacks to Nucky's childhood will bring in another level of interest.

As much as I enjoy Boardwalk Empire I think this is a good time to end it and getting us into 1931 is a shot in the arm for the show I think.

by Anonymousreply 26609/13/2014

That kid playing Young Nucky is the best actor on the show. He was truly fantastic in this last episode.

by Anonymousreply 26710/02/2014

Where do those posts saying "post by racist shithead" or whatever come from? Who deletes the post and inserts that, the webmaster?

by Anonymousreply 26810/02/2014

I think the 20 year old Nucky starts appearing in tomorrow's episode. I gather he's fantastic.

by Anonymousreply 26910/05/2014

I hate this show and can't wait for it to be over, I suffer through it because my partner watches this.

I only like watching the costumes on this show, which is great. Everything else I don't like. That cunt being shot was a surprise to me.

by Anonymousreply 27010/05/2014

Joe Harper, the teenager who's working for Mickey Doyle, is actually Tommy Darmody. You read it here first.

by Anonymousreply 27110/05/2014

Tim Van Patten finally got a role for his aunt, Joyce, to play on last night's episode. She was really good as the lady under the boardwalk. I wonder if his Uncle Dick will play a role by the time it ends.

by Anonymousreply 27210/06/2014

Joyce Van Patten is an excellent actress.

by Anonymousreply 27310/06/2014

The guy playing 20 year old Nucky is the kid from the Tim Burton/Johnny Depp SLEEPY HOLLOW. Good casting. Even without the fake teeth, he's got the mannerisms down pat.

by Anonymousreply 27410/06/2014

He's also done a lot of musical theater and you know what means.

by Anonymousreply 27510/06/2014

Bye bye, Nelson. Bye bye Chalky.

I think Joe Harper is Tommy Darmody.

by Anonymousreply 27610/12/2014

R276, that's a good guess. You might be right.

by Anonymousreply 27710/12/2014

The actor is the spitting image of a young Michael Pitt.

by Anonymousreply 27810/12/2014

"Joe Harper is Tommy Darmody"

Nooooooooo. Joe Harper was the young kid who picked Nucky up from the street in the 1930's - that was NOT a flashback scene since he told him about the death of Arquette in Cuba.

by Anonymousreply 27910/12/2014

I'm guessing R279 has no idea who Tommy Darmody is...

by Anonymousreply 28010/12/2014

Huh, R279? Joe Harper could easily be Tommy Darmody. Tommy would be around Joe's age (16 or 17) in 1931. Do the math.

by Anonymousreply 28110/12/2014

Oh crap - you mean the SON of Jimmy Darmody.

I find that interesting but rather pointless.

by Anonymousreply 28210/12/2014

The guy playing Paul Muni was hot.

by Anonymousreply 28310/13/2014

What a dumb ending for Van Alden. That character went absolutely nowhere for five seasons. One of the worst character arcs on an HBO show.

by Anonymousreply 28410/13/2014

R284, your opinion is firmly in the minority. Van Alden had a great character arc. I loved his final moment before half his face got blown away.

by Anonymousreply 28510/13/2014

I don't get why Chalky just gave up and let Narciss shoot him. Seems a lame ending to that arc as well.

by Anonymousreply 28610/13/2014

R286: Probably because if Chalky attempted to kill Narciss and failed, then the latter would've taken it out on "daughter" and her daughter who is his (Chalky's) daughter. I think you're also thinking in terms of some 'Terminator' where Chalky will just pull out a machine gun and just start shooting everyone. These are men with a "code." They know when their time is up --like when Jimmy was killed.

by Anonymousreply 28710/13/2014

They seem to have decided to end it by simply killing off all the main characters.

by Anonymousreply 28810/13/2014

r270--do you and your partner live in one room, or does he pull a "Clockwork Orange" on you every week?

by Anonymousreply 28910/13/2014

"Joe Harper" = a character from "Tom Sawyer"

"Tom Sawyer" = Tommy

"Joe Harper"/Julia Harrow/Joe Harrow = initials J.H.

by Anonymousreply 29010/13/2014

It's funny, when I saw where/how they ended Chalky's life, I was pissed because I didn't think it was good enough to justify why I couldn't park my car in the area they filmed that scene.

by Anonymousreply 29110/13/2014

Exactly, R290. There can be no doubt that Joe Harper is Tommy Darmody. And to those being extra anal about ages they've apparently fudged Mabel's age a few times already so they can definitely tinker with Tommy's in order for him to be Joe.

by Anonymousreply 29210/13/2014

Tommy was born in 1918 or 1919. The maximum age he could be in 1931 is 13. Yes, it's probably him, but it's still a lazy cop-out of a season.

by Anonymousreply 29310/13/2014

Winters has officially checked out and moved onto his next project. Lazy ending to a great series.

by Anonymousreply 29410/13/2014

Winter*

by Anonymousreply 29510/13/2014

R293, did you WATCH the first season? Tommy seemed around 5 years old in that.

by Anonymousreply 29610/13/2014

[quote]did you WATCH the first season? Tommy seemed around 5 years old in that.

He was a toddler. Did YOU watch the subsequent seasons? Jimmy didn't even MEET Tommy's mother until 1917. He got her pregnant and left her to join the army (after fucking his mother). The absolute earliest Tommy could have been born would be late 1917.

by Anonymousreply 29710/14/2014

I have mixed emotions about this show, which is compelling despite how fragmented it is. I don't consider myself an entirely stupid person yet I found much of the last episode very difficult to follow.

I liked drunken, mouthy Margaret and my money says somehow she and Nucky are reunited - or bound together somehow - by the end of the show.

by Anonymousreply 29810/14/2014

So why did you originally write that he was born in 1918 or 1919, R297? It doesn't matter what you write, anyway. It's Tommy Darmody.

by Anonymousreply 29910/14/2014

The last actor they used for Tommy Darmody looked 6 or 7 years old.

by Anonymousreply 30010/14/2014

It's true, they got lazy. The events that wrapped up the lives of the characters in the last episode could have happened at anytime during the past seasons - the actions weren't connected to anything that's taking place in the story (particularly re Chalky). Maybe they'll tie it up somehow but I doubt it.

by Anonymousreply 30110/14/2014

[quote]So why did you originally write that he was born in 1918 or 1919,

Because we don't REALLY know exactly when Jimmy joined the army. Tommy could have been born in 1918 or 1919. Late 1917 is the absolute earliest.

But yes, I have no doubt that the character IS Tommy Darmody. It may not fit nicely into the chronology but plot-wise it works.

by Anonymousreply 30210/14/2014

I think the use of flashbacks to 1884 and 1897 this season to fill in some of the blanks in Nucky's backstory is really inspired and definitely NOT "lazy writing." In the past, I believe Nucky has stated that he brought Gillian to the Commodore after the latter spotted her in the Neptune's Bounty as one of the consorts. Now, after Sunday's "Devil You Know" we see that not only was Nucky already familiar with who Gillian was, he was certainly at least aware of the Commodore's predilictions for young girls (notice how he spied that one mother/daughter set on the boardwalk) thus making his procurement of Gillian more problematic and, well, awful.

I liked how young Gillian gave him the name "Nellie Bly" connecting back to the letter he received two episodes ago (now certainly from Gillian in the asylum) with that same name as the return addressee. I also appreciated how one of the two bar slags who ended up rolling him in this episode was going on and on about the tiara she wore when she was part of Neptune's Bounty, setting up the scene for what I presume occurs in the next episode - Gillian's rape and debasement.

Also, Nucky waking up out of a drunken stupor and saying " Why did you trust me?" to Joe Harper, looking exactly like young Gillian under the boardwalk while Joe Harper (who is most likely Tommy Darmody) is also Gillian's grandson. He's obviously very haunted by the role he played in that whole situation. That's actually rather intricate writing. I'm willing to let the age issue w/r/t Tommy Darmody slide.

by Anonymousreply 30310/14/2014

*predilections

by Anonymousreply 30410/14/2014

[quote]I think the use of flashbacks to 1884 and 1897 this season to fill in some of the blanks in Nucky's backstory is really inspired and definitely NOT "lazy writing."

I disagree. The back story is essentially all that they have left without rehashing old plot-lines. It's interesting (more interesting than anything happening in 1931 but it's hardly inspired... they're just stealing a page from Mad Men (who probably stole it elsewhere.)

by Anonymousreply 30510/14/2014

Fair enough, R305. I've found the late 1800s flashbacks interesting. And the casting of the younger versions of characters we know so well has really been spot-on. Boardwalk Empire has used its characters' backstories in the creation of drama and conflict for four seasons, that it's really fascinating to see those same backstories play out in ways that differ from established show canon (i.e. Nucky's somewhat more enhanced role in the procurement of Gillian). This doesn't seem to me like a rehash of a trope that Mad Men used (to good and sometime deleterious effect, sometimes within the same episode).

by Anonymousreply 30610/14/2014

I feel as if the writers are just coasting at this point, filling time.

We had almost an entire episode about Chalky and someone we didn't know in the home of two women we didn't know. It had nothing to do with anything.

I do think the actor who plays Al Capone (who isn't even American) is amazing, but it was a mistake to fragment the show. They should have kept the stories in Atlantic City.

by Anonymousreply 30710/14/2014

Only two more episodes left, it certainly does feel rushed.

by Anonymousreply 30810/14/2014

Every episode this season has felt somewhat off, though the all-around high quality has remained anyway. I think the series got the short shrift in it being a reduced episode order for the final season, even if it is expensive to produce. Especially given the time-jump and all the flashbacks, we could have at least gotten a full final season - even 10 episodes, if not the full 12 or 13. As it is, it feels too disjointed and rushed.

It's a shame the show never really caught on in a water cooler way. I guess it's just too smart, subtle and complex. I will miss it when it's gone and will always feel like there was another season or two left in it - the Capone stuff alone could have made a great miniseries or mini-season.

I really wish HBO had another period series, but I guess Winter and Scorsese's new 1970s show will have to suffice when that premieres next year. I tried to get into MANHATTAN on WGN but it just isn't compelling enough. I will always love the weird artistic flourishes and overall painstaking period detail of BOARDWALK EMPIRE - you really can escape into the entire period if you give yourself over to it.

by Anonymousreply 30910/14/2014

So let's start end predictions:

I predict, with no basis but gut instinct, it all goes (almost) Greek tragedy and almost everybody's dead at the end.

I predict Nucky's killer will be Gillian.

I predict Margaret is still his wife and ends up with his ill gotten gains. And a drinking problem if they want to be any fun.

I like the effort that went into casting flashback Nucky and Commodore... they've got the looks and voices down convincingly. Usually you'd think they'd be too above it to imitate the voices but it works here.

by Anonymousreply 31010/14/2014

I like posting about TV here, save the Downton thread where some of the Aunty Marys can get a bit hysterical over detail, the conversations, paradoxically, remain quite calm. Back in the day TWOP boards were no place for a conversation... too many mental cases and no ability to argue with them under those demented moderators.

by Anonymousreply 31110/14/2014

[quote]It's a shame the show never really caught on in a water cooler way

The show drifted after they killed off Jimmy. They claim it was their intent all along to kill him off and they had to do it earlier because of Dabney Coleman's health but the show seemed lost after his death.

by Anonymousreply 31210/15/2014

Not true about them intending to kill Jimmy off all along. Michael Pitt became an unmanagable douchebag during Season 2-showed up stoned, didn't know his lines, didn't take direction. Winter took the decision to kill him off halfway through the season.

by Anonymousreply 31310/16/2014

They also specifically deny that writing him off (or his agent dropping him) has anything to do with his being a douche onset

by Anonymousreply 31410/16/2014

Oh, really, R314? And you believe that? Please. He was fired by his agents when he was fired from Boardwalk.

by Anonymousreply 31510/16/2014

Do you believe that I believe that, r315?

PLEASE!

by Anonymousreply 31610/16/2014

Grow up, R316.

Pitt was fired from Boardwalk, his agent dropped him and he's had to slowly crawl back to having a decent career again. But he can forget about ever being hired by HBO and Martin Scorsese again.

by Anonymousreply 31710/17/2014

You grow up, r317. Everybody and their dog knows that he was fired and dropped by his agent because of his behavior. You hardly have some 'inside scoop'.

by Anonymousreply 31810/20/2014

NO, YOU GROW UP!

MY DAUGHTER! MY SISTER! MY DAUGHTER! MY SISTER!

YOU'RE ALL OUT OF ORDER!

IT'S A MADHOUSE! A MADHOUSE!

by Anonymousreply 31910/20/2014

IMDB shows Michael Pitt in several recent projects. Did he clean up his act?

by Anonymousreply 32010/20/2014

The actress playing young Gillian Darmoday really had Gretchen Mol's mannerisms and speech patterns down. She and Young Nucky were both very well cast.

by Anonymousreply 32110/20/2014

[quote]I predict, with no basis but gut instinct, it all goes (almost) Greek tragedy and almost everybody's dead at the end.

They've taken liberties with history, but I doubt they'd go this far and turn it into a Tarantino history lesson.

R321, don't forget the guy playing the younger Commodore

by Anonymousreply 32210/20/2014

Absolutely, R322. He might as well be playing a younger Dabney Colman.

Even the younger Leander Cephas Whitlock (fun to see that character again) was spot-on.

These honestly might be some of the best "flashbacks" I've ever seen on any TV show.

by Anonymousreply 32310/20/2014

I also think the actor playing Joe Harper sounds very similar to Michael Pitt/Jimmy Darmody.

by Anonymousreply 32410/20/2014

I don't think Nucky's going to respond to Gillian's letter. That's my prediction. I also don't think The Harper kid is anyone's relative.

People complaining keep in mind, this is "Boardwalk Empire." It's about the glory days of Atlantic City, not Chicago, before the Lucianos and the Capones.

What I love about it is, historically this series tracks not only real characters, but the evolution of various ethic groups' ascendancy in the world of organized crime.

I love it. Nucky doesn't die at the end, because his real life historical figure doesn't die. He goes to jail if I recall correctly.

I wonder what happens to Eli. Is he the instrument that finally nails Nucky? Does Eli's son convince him to turn on his brother and become state's evidence? After Nucky saved his life that would be Shakespearean. I think Margaret is going to walk away wealthy and unscathed.

by Anonymousreply 32510/20/2014

People really ought to read about the real Nucky on Wiki. He goes to prison for income tax evasion in 1939, and gets out early, in 1945. He dies of natural causes at the age of 85 in 1968. He and his brother both survive and his wife sticks with him. Interesting guy.

by Anonymousreply 32610/20/2014

but the real life Nucky doesn't marry until a second time until he goes to jail in 1941. The real Nucky also wasn't a gangster. He just took a cut of what the gangsters earned from Atlantic city.

[quote]It's about the glory days of Atlantic City, not Chicago, before the Lucianos and the Capones.

They skipped all that. Atlantic city was famous as the city where prohibition was simply not enforced. Its glory days were the mid and late 1920s. By 1931 it was all about Luciano and Capone.

by Anonymousreply 32710/20/2014

While the episode was beautifully shot and some of the hijinks were entertaining, that was a seriously underwhelming penultimate episode of a series that could have been so much more than it is. A real shame that we basically will have missed out on the majority of the most interesting history of this period when it's done. I guess we should consider ourselves lucky they gave us any Capone and Luciano at all, but after the half-hearted way that they have used them this season perhaps it's for the best. That said, a season focusing primarily on Capone/Luciano's rise was a major missed opportunity and a black eye on the show's legacy. Either way, it's over this week.

by Anonymousreply 32810/20/2014

[quote] I also think the actor playing Joe Harper sounds very similar to Michael Pitt/Jimmy Darmody.

There are some scenes where he has Pitt's profile, it's uncanny. I love how they hired actors who can act and could be the younger version of that person or be related to that person. I give high fives to the casting director, able to find actors who can act and actually resemble their younger versions.

The only thing I dislike is that the younger Nucky's teeth are too big. Is that his own teeth or false teeth?

Btw, has anyone noticed how hot Willy is now?

by Anonymousreply 32910/20/2014

My money is on Gillian killing Nucky because of what he did/will do to her (in flashback.) I agree, Margaret walks away loaded.

by Anonymousreply 33010/20/2014

I hope Nucky doesn't help Gillian. She deserves everything happening to her. Nucky paid her back by taking care of Jimmy.

Joe Harper will finally get revenge for Jimmy. I know that sounds predictable but it's so obvious.

by Anonymousreply 33110/20/2014

I really like new, mouthy Margaret. She's quite funny.

by Anonymousreply 33210/20/2014

I decided to start watching the entire series from the very first season. I think Boardwalk Empire is a masterpiece. You'll see how things came to the place they're at.

Luciano wanted to kill Nucky the first time he met him. Thanks to Jimmy, Rothstein and Nucky got off on the wrong foot from the start, and watching Van Alden's downward spiral is fascinating.

Gillian was also a very consistent character. Damaged and dangerous and sad. Eli, the brother is deceptive in his simplicity. I highly recommend people watch the entire thing while it's available for free. Well, not free but HBO has it all available right now.

by Anonymousreply 33310/20/2014

I've been watching this show since it premiered. This was the first series set in that particular time, the early 1900s and the production has always been stunning.

I've recently noticed that there are more movies and series based in that period than before like The Knick, for example. Only a hundred years ago but such a fascinating period of time.

I can't believe next week is the end of the show. They're showing a special about the show on HBO which is interesting.

by Anonymousreply 33410/20/2014

[quote] it was a mistake to fragment the show. They should have kept the stories in Atlantic City.

I think there was a better show trying to get out, and the writers never let it. If they had stayed focused on Atlantic City, kept the plots small (Soprano's never did any major heists, but you still knew they were mobsters), and concentrated on characters, it could have been a very interesting show about Atlantic City during its glory days.

If they had kept it local, the corruption, the unloading the booze off the boats, the prostitution, the Black/White tensions, and the constantly changing cast of characters coming for vacations and conventions could have kept the show going without needing to go to NYC or Chicago and trying to tell the big story.

by Anonymousreply 33510/21/2014

[quote]This was the first series set in that particular time, the early 1900s and the production has always been stunning.{...}I've recently noticed that there are more movies and series based in that period than before like The Knick, for example.

There is a big difference between the early 1900s and the 1920s. I think what disappoints me about this is that I personally find the 1920s a fascinating time in America with the birth of mass culture, women's emancipation and new racial dynamics, and this show squandered it's potential.

[quote]These honestly might be some of the best "flashbacks" I've ever seen on any TV show.

Hear! Hear! This season, the flashbacks are the compelling highlight.

by Anonymousreply 33610/21/2014

Great episode.

What I love about the flashbacks is that they are all leading up to Nucky's original sin -- pimping Gillian to the Commodore. I assume somehow (via Gillian or her supposed grandson) that first step into serious wrongdoing will result in his end. If so, that's a gorgeous construction.

by Anonymousreply 33710/23/2014

Well?

by Anonymousreply 33810/26/2014

R337 called it and it was "executed" beautifly.

by Anonymousreply 33910/26/2014

Perfect conclusion for a highly variable show. The crosscutting at the end was great.

by Anonymousreply 34010/26/2014

3 generations of Darmodys totally fucked by Nucky.

by Anonymousreply 34110/26/2014

Yes, that last scene where it's cross-cutting between the past and what's presently happening to Nucky was beautifully filmed.

by Anonymousreply 34210/27/2014

Excellent ending. Nothing like everything coming full circle.

by Anonymousreply 34310/27/2014

All told, the series was definitely cut short (the show could have gone at least another season or two), but it was a fitting finale.

Sad to see it go.

by Anonymousreply 34410/27/2014

Awful episode. After 5 years of meticulous fidelity to history, they deviate from their tradition at the very end.

Since I knew the real Nucky lived until 1968 and died in Northfield, New Jersey, they missed a fucking great opportunity to have old Nucky - who survived EVERY major gangster he dealt with, sitting in a Mad Man-era set with a tv and tv dinner at the end, watching Laugh-in....instead we get the tv, but it makes some frigging bizarre cameo in a dream-like sequence.

by Anonymousreply 34510/27/2014

[quote]Awful episode. After 5 years of meticulous fidelity to history, they deviate from their tradition at the very end.

What? They deviated plenty. The real Nucky was not a bootlegger or a gangster, he just took a cut from the bootleggers. He also did not remarry until he went to jail in 1940.

by Anonymousreply 34610/27/2014

[quote]It was a predictable finale, yes, but a rather poetic one too. Nucky Thompson was killed in the same spot where, in 1897, as an ambitious young sheriff, he made the decision to pimp out an innocent 13-year-old girl in exchange for job security. His assassin? A wave of fist pumps and exclamations of "I SO called that!" undoubtedly flooded the Boardwalk fan community as soon as Nucky's latest wannabe apprentice "Joe Harper" revealed his true identity in the episode's final moments to be the now-teenage Tommy Darmody. It was a good plot twist, having Nucky taken out by not a mob rival or by the feds, but by Gillian's grandson. Tommy, who obviously picked up some gun-wielding skills from his adoptive father, closed out the series with the honor of exacting vengeance upon the man who single-handedly destroyed the lives of three Darmody generations.

by Anonymousreply 34710/27/2014

If they'd wanted to portray the real Nucky Johnson, they would have called him "Nucky Johnson". This was always meant to be a work of fiction with real-life supporting characters pulled in from time to time.

by Anonymousreply 34810/27/2014

They could have done so much more with the series and that disappoints me but the ending was very well done.

by Anonymousreply 34910/27/2014

I thought the ending was one of the most boring episodes in a show littered with way too many boring episodes. I'm surprised they let it fizzle out like that.

by Anonymousreply 35010/27/2014

A very disappointing season, but a wonderful final episode.

by Anonymousreply 35110/28/2014

[quote]the man who single-handedly destroyed the lives of three Darmody generations.

Tommy's mom was a lesbian, so he was in for drama no matter what.

by Anonymousreply 35210/28/2014

.

by Anonymousreply 35311/01/2014

Good point R353

by Anonymousreply 35411/01/2014

At least we saw Narcisse publicly executed.

by Anonymousreply 35511/03/2014
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