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Objectivism in NYC and L.A.

Are there any elder gays on here who remember those times back in the 50s and 60s when Ayn Rand was hip and Objectivist parties were happening?

I imagine lots of intense conversation, repressed men, women in pencil skirts and stockings, thick smoke everywhere, and raw dog fucking in bathrooms.

by Anonymousreply 1910/12/2013

Since no one is answering, I'll pass on the impression of someone who actually met Mrs. Frank O'Connor in Manhattan during either the 1950s or 60s. He was an actor in the daytime soaps (later moved to LA). He went to one of her meetings, where you get to ask questions. He told me that O'Connor was a bitch and ended up hating her and the evil influence she had on our world to this day.

Not a nice lady. Something along the line of Phyllis Schlafly. But without the religion. But it IS a religion.

Wasn't her marital arrangement with her Irish-American husband, Frank O'Connor similar to another Phyllis---Phyllis Gates? Both Gates and Mrs. O'Connor could have as many extramarital affairs as they liked, but poor Rock and Frank could only do their spouse?

by Anonymousreply 110/10/2013

R1, You're saying you met Ayn Rand, Mrs. Frank O'Connor? She was a fascinating, horrid, complicated woman.

I think it's obvious sensitive Frank was gay and I still wonder why Ayn Rand would have settled for that.

by Anonymousreply 210/10/2013

r2, while I was lived in Manhattan at the time (as a child), it was a much older gentleman who told me of his meeting years later.

But you bring up an interesting possibility about Frank. In both Rock Hudson's and Frank's case, it's obvious who wore the pants in the family.

by Anonymousreply 310/10/2013

I've read several accounts of these Objectivist parties and they were Stalin-like interrogations. So you have this dominant theme of Randian philosophy being discussed by intelligent, idealist, arrogant, horny young people who didn't really know how to function as flawed adults. It was a decidedly Jewish milieu -but belief in God was severely ridiculed.

by Anonymousreply 410/10/2013

Few people understand or recall that when Capitalist laissez-faire anti-government Ayn came down with cancer in her later years---instead paying for her own treatment, she got Medicare or Medicaid. She talked the talk but certainly didn't walk the walk.

by Anonymousreply 510/11/2013

What a child chooses to read often indicates the future adult.

Objectivism is really desecularized Protestantism---imperialistic Protestantism. O'Connor grew up in Russia reading the French “La Vallée Mystérieuse” (The Mysterious Valley) by Maurice Champagne. I've read the English translation by Bill Bucko. It's an adventure story, in which psychopathic white supermen conquer inferior native peoples on the Indian subcontinent during the 19th century. In short, a British Victorian boy's yarn.

And what was the driving force behind the British to conquer, over a period of five centuries, 75% of the earth's surface, from Ireland to India, in which 100s of millions were killed, starved or ended up addicted to narcotics. “Anglicanism,” a heretical breakaway from the Vatican.

Personally, I believe the Anglican Church historically is the human equivalent of an asteroid hitting the earth. Objectivism is really just a dumb-down version of the Social Darwinistic policies of the British Crown, seeking to impose its version of Christianity on the unwilling.

Forget the Randoid debunkers who cites Nietzsche, psychopaths, anticommunism and the like as primal influences. There is nothing complicated to figure out. Annie as a young girl simply took a liking to the notion of blond supermen taking over the planet. And she loved to say “Have a Merry Christmas” like the Republican Junior Leaguer she really was.

To appropriately return her greeting, I quote “Appointment in the Samarra” by John O'Hara's. On a snowy Christmas Eve during Prohibition, a bootlegger named Al stops his car in a Mainline neighborhood. Behind the windows of the mansions, parties are in process. Al rolls down the window and shouts out in into the night: "Merry Christmas, you stuck up, bastards! Merry Christmas from Al Grecco!"

by Anonymousreply 610/11/2013

She was born Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum.

by Anonymousreply 710/11/2013

Somewhere O'Connor writes about her favorites novels being the James Bond series (Fleming) and her favorite television series the BBC "The Avengers."

So her heroes are British secret police agents murdering enemies of state. This sums Objectivism as little more than a product of British imperialism.

by Anonymousreply 810/11/2013

R6, Anglicanism, if there is even truly such a thing, was not the driving force of the Britush Empire. At most it was a veil for a fraction of the colonizers.

by Anonymousreply 910/11/2013

r9, the British were in competition with the Catholic empires of Spain and France. And Orthodox Russia, the Islamic Near East, Hindu India, etc. Religion is a huge factor in this. And we're talking about the ruling class, not the foot soldiers sent out to do the dirty work.

If "Anglican" bothers you so much, how about we use "Protestant"? As in Max Weber's "Protestant Ethic." It was from Protestantism that "Capitalism" arose. Those two "isms" plus British imperialism are all really one and the same.

Remember the thinking back in the days of the Empire---"God is an Englishman." The world was made by God for His People, the English. And the non-English (later the non-British) are just wildlife wandering in the park.

The Anglophile airhead that wrote "Atlas Shrugged" uses a lot of the same thinking.

by Anonymousreply 1010/11/2013

Wow R1 doesn't get the British empire. Or Anglicanism. Or Protestantism.

Or Ayn Rand.

by Anonymousreply 1110/12/2013

Since I couldn't make it plain enough for r11, I'll make it simple---Annie wanted a buff, tall, Northern European-descended male adult psychopath to fill her orifices, voluntarily or involuntarily. Everything else is intellectual interior decorations.

BTW, during the making of "Fountainhead," O'Connor became jealous of Patricia Neal because Gary Cooper was suppose to fall in love with HER. The true believers actually believe Cooper to be insane. Why would any one in their right mind prefer Pat to their goddess?

by Anonymousreply 1210/12/2013

Even when Ayn was supposed to be a hip read, I thought it was awful. I got through half of a loaned, "atlas shrugged" and cut that friendship to arm's length. Telling, very telling.

by Anonymousreply 1310/12/2013

I liked her rape fantasies. So transparent.

by Anonymousreply 1410/12/2013

It's not a coincidence that two of most influential persons on American intellectual life came from Russia---Helena Blavatsky and Ayn Rand. Helena Hahn married an elderly General Blavatsky as a teenager in 19th century Russia, but ran away to London, where she haunted the library at the British Museum and concocted a syncretism of all the world's religions---Theosophy. She came to the US after the Civil War and exploited war widows who wanted to talk to their husbands by channeling the dead. Blavatsky was basically the mother of the New Age in the US. Thousands of cults to this day use her concepts such as the modern version of “karma” and “reincarnation,” which greatly differ from their original Hindu forms.

Rand similarly came to the US and promoted her version of Social Darwinism, adding on various items like Aristotelian logic, white racism, imperialism, homophobia and capitalism like one would decorate a Christmas tree. Interestingly, the only other group who use Aristotelian logic are the Jesuits. Objectivism's influence on libertarianism and predatory free market economics can be seen in current Republican economic policy---what can only be described as “economic creationism.”

Why are these two women so influential in America? Simply Americans and Russians are psychologically similar. Both are of relatively new countries, history-wise. Though the Russia people have centuries of cultural history, the Soviet era forced them to restart again, just as the immigrants in the US had to restart again. As a result, there is more of a willingness to explore the unknown. But being ungrounded in a traditional culture, Americans and Russians tend toward superstition. The newness of the culture also give rise to sentimentality and a corresponding romantic view of the world. Exceptionalism and Manifest Destiny is what the rest of the world sees of these two peoples.

When the two Russian women came to America, they were really coming home.

by Anonymousreply 1510/12/2013

Can't remember where I heard this, but isn't Amber Heard a fan of Ayn Rand?

by Anonymousreply 1610/12/2013

But Rand and Hahn came of age before the Soviet era.

by Anonymousreply 1710/12/2013

r18, I stand corrected. The Westernization of Russian culture actually came before Revolution, starting in 1794. Rand did come to the US in 1925. But as you say, she and Blatvatsky did come of age before the Soviet era.

by Anonymousreply 1810/12/2013
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