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Is anyone going to pay the $95 penalty for not getting healthcare?

And have no plans to get insured, thus being 100% uninsured.

If so why?

by Anonymousreply 16904/17/2014

I would never go uninsured, accidents happen when you least expect it, and so do illnesses.

by Anonymousreply 110/01/2013

So what, R1, you can then just buy insurance if that happens, after the fact. New rules mean they can't turn you down.

by Anonymousreply 210/01/2013

Yes.

by Anonymousreply 310/01/2013

R2, that won't protect you from an accident, or if you need emergency surgery. Insurance coverage doesn't start immediately when you purchase it.

by Anonymousreply 410/01/2013

[quote]So what, [R1], you can then just buy insurance if that happens, after the fact. New rules mean they can't turn you down.

There is some truth to that during the enrollment period.

After that, no. If you don't have coverage, you're fucked.

by Anonymousreply 510/01/2013

You sound like welfare folks. I ain't paying my own way! Not me!

by Anonymousreply 610/01/2013

A pre-existing condition doesn't mean you can get insurance two days after you have an accident

by Anonymousreply 710/01/2013

It is $95 or 1% of your yearly income whichever is greater and increases each of the following years. So you are just delaying the inevitable if you don't sign up this year.

by Anonymousreply 810/01/2013

Is that $95 a year?

by Anonymousreply 910/01/2013

I suppose you refuse to carry automobile insurance as well?

by Anonymousreply 1010/01/2013

The penalty is the greater of:

For 2014, $95 per uninsured person or 1 percent of household income over the filing threshold, For 2015, $325 per uninsured person or 2 percent of household income over the filing threshold, and For 2016 and beyond, $695 per uninsured person or 2.5 percent of household income over the filing threshold.

There is a family cap on the flat dollar amount (but not the percentage of income test) of 300 percent, and the overall penalty is capped at the national average premium of a bronze level plan purchases through an exchange. For individuals under 18 years old, the applicable per person penalty is one-half of the amounts listed above.

Beginning in 2017, the penalties will be increased by the cost-of-living adjustment.

by Anonymousreply 1110/01/2013

Essentially they are making you pay extra taxes if you don't do the responsible thing and keep yourself insured. As has been stated four hundred million times already, you would think the party of personal responsibility would be all for this.

by Anonymousreply 1210/01/2013

this should alleviate CROWDED emergency rooms!

by Anonymousreply 1310/01/2013

R12 actually if we are talking about Republicans: they are indeed the party of personal responsibility: they feel they have the personal responsibility to dictate the rights of an another's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness: aka family planning, access to healthcare, marriage.

by Anonymousreply 1410/01/2013

Keep in mind there are no teeth in ACA which says the Federal government can force you to buy insurance or force you to pay the $95 fee or 1% of your income. This bill is not like the state mandates for auto insurance. Nor can they send you to jail for not paying the fee. If either fee ($95 or 1%) is truly a burden to you financially, (i.e. you are unemployed and uninsured which many people are) you can qualify for your state's version of Medicaid (assuming you are from a non-Republican state that isn't rejecting gov funding to score points with Tea Party extremists. Then you end up paying nothing and get the peace of mind of being covered. Also In the absence of any coverage you can also go to an approved gov local health center in your area and pay what you can afford for care (which is something that hasn't been discussed at all, similar to the suggested yet optional entrance fees at the Metropolitan Museum in New York City. More people should take advantage of that. Kind of like how doctors used to be paid, pay what you can afford assuming health care was a right to all and not a for profit enterprise.

Personally I think the logic behind Obamacare visa via the enormous funding associated with it (close to a trillion dollars over a decade) was to fully fund and get as many people onto the government Medicaid system as possible. And personally that isn't a bad thing (Tea Partyers may disagree with me). Currently Medicaid/Care is THE plan that offers the greatest cost saving compared to all private insurance schemes purchased individually or provided through your employer. And that is fact despite all the fraud/abuse stories associated with Medicare. Private insurance plans don't force health providers to offer competitive prices in any way hence the extreme prices for simple items such as band aids and all other medical procedures. In the past the only way they (insurance companies) kept costs down was to refuse to pay the bills of those that they covered through loopholes, legalese or by just ending the policies when those they insured got sick. Those tactics were despicable resulting in many personal bankruptcies to pay overinflated medical bills. The ACA legislation was enacted to curtail that behavior.

I think that the government is counting on lots of poor people being drafted into Medicaid to effectively crowd out any competition (or lack there of) from private insurance which will ultimately result in an end game of single payer Medicaid plan for everyone eventually. The insurance industry will be forced to accept lower profit margins by forcing them to be competitive with gov Medicare cost or perish. Ultimately getting the for profit insurance industry out of health care is a huge win in my book. Sure if you want to keep your private plan you can under the ACA, but you will probably end up paying more for it in the long run then a government single payer scheme.

by Anonymousreply 1510/01/2013

I think a lot of people are going to end up doing that just out of confusion. (they didn't know how to sign up etc.)

by Anonymousreply 1610/01/2013

Do I need to do anything if I'm employed and have insurance already?

by Anonymousreply 1710/01/2013

R17 No. You are all set. You don't need to do anything regarding Obamacare.

by Anonymousreply 1810/01/2013

Yes. Now that we've passed the bill we've seen what's in it.

by Anonymousreply 1910/01/2013

Hold on a second. Does this mean if I don't have insurance my penalty is:

$95 for calendar year 2014

and

$325 for calendar year 2015 ???

by Anonymousreply 2010/01/2013

Link is busted and they have a message stating so. This is the NY State Exchange.

by Anonymousreply 2110/01/2013

anyone else going to pay the penalty, voluntarily?

by Anonymousreply 2210/03/2013

A poor person who does not buy insurance will pay a heftier penalty than the crooks on Wall Street who tanked the US economy. They got bonuses.

by Anonymousreply 2310/03/2013

I paid $200/mo. for 6 years at a previous job and never used the insurance once (knock wood).

I don't have any now, but October is my current employer's open enrollment period so I thought I'd do it now (even though a co-worker said it's "shitty").

by Anonymousreply 2410/03/2013

My sister is probably going to opt for the penalty. She is in her early 60s and retired, her income is too large for a subsidy.

Her insurance has been costing about $4,000/year. She just got her renewal and it will be $16,000 for 2014. She has no health conditions and hasn't even filed a claim in the past three years. $95 vs $16,000 is looking pretty good to her.

by Anonymousreply 2510/03/2013

R25, that's bullshit. No one's premiums on the exchange are that high. Your sister is a liar.

by Anonymousreply 2610/03/2013

Or r25, she could now pick a brand new insurance policy on her own from all the new choices being offered thanks to the ACA and not have to pay nearly as much as she is paying now or in the past. Ain't that a beautiful thing?

by Anonymousreply 2710/03/2013

OP, you're an idiot.

Everyone should get insurance. Did you check out how much it will cost? I assure you, it's worth it.

by Anonymousreply 2810/03/2013

If you don't get sick, etc.- how will "They" know you don't have insurance?

by Anonymousreply 2910/03/2013

R29, it will be on your tax return. You'll have to check a box that you have approved insurance. They may ask for proof.

R7, yes, under the new rules you can get insurance two days after you have an accident.

by Anonymousreply 3010/03/2013

I'm going to wait until the insurance company gives you a free toaster for signing up.

by Anonymousreply 3110/03/2013

You are taking a chance that someone won't plow into you causing major hospitalization, R2 and others.

by Anonymousreply 3210/03/2013

I'm unemployed right now and not even collecting unemployment anymore, just living off my savings for now. I have no insurance as I couldn't afford the cobra premiums. maybe I will be eligible for Medicaid or something more affordable.

by Anonymousreply 3310/03/2013

R15, I don't think you have a complete grasp of healthcare economics.

You say:"private insurance plans don't force health providers to offer competitive prices in any way hence the extreme prices for simple items such as band aids..."

The fact is that private insurance plans have contractual arrangements with most health care providers, and pay discounted rates (much reduced from what an individual would pay). In fact, most private insurance plans now mimic Medicare and pay hospitals on the basis of DRGs (Diagnosis-related groups). So if a patient is in the hospital for a heart attack, private insurance typically pays the hospital an agreed upon dollar amount for that particular diagnosis. Hospitals today are not paid for days, and certainly not for each band aid or aspirin provided, but rather by diagnosis.

Now, if an individual did not have insurance, then he would be billed on an itemized basis that would include every service and supply used in his care. Individuals do not have a contractual relation with medical providers and thus are expected to pay full price. Of course, about 98% of individuals who are "self pay" are not able to pay their hospital bills, and these accounts have to be "written off".

Self pay accounts are "written off", but in the economics of healthcare that means that the cost of "charity care" will be added to the cost of care when a hospital negotiates its payment schedule with insurance companies. So, in the end, your insurance premiums will have to go up to cover the deadbeats who do not have insurance.

By expanding the pool of insured, and reducing the number of uninsured, the Affordable Care Act should result in lower premiums for all as health care providers will have lower per-case costs due to increased volumes and increased reimbursement ands can safely negotiate lower payment rates with insurance companies.

I have worked in health care reimbursement for 40 years. I think I know what I am talking about here.

by Anonymousreply 3410/03/2013

R26. Yes it is possible. Anthem hikes my rates up 87% over a 3 year period. I couldn't afford insurance this year because I would have to pay almost 2 grand a month for the premium. They can do it and it's legal.

When you turn 59 and have to buy insurance today, you're screwed if you have pre-existing conditions. That's why Obamacare is great for protecting people against gouging by insurance cos.

by Anonymousreply 3510/03/2013

R25, your sister should go through the exchange and see what polices are available and what they cost. She will be surprised at the "affordable" plans in the Affordable Care Act.

Geez, I've seen one person after another on DL deciding Obamacare is a disaster based on erroneous assumptions and without even looking to see what is available!

by Anonymousreply 3610/03/2013

R35 raises an important point, the astronomical rate increases that the insurance industry gets away with. Unfortunately despite the 1000+ pages comprising the ACA legislation, the ACA did nothing to curtail the insurance industry's golden goose, the McCarran-Ferguson Act of 1947. This bill which is still on the books basically gave the insurance industry a waiver from the Sherman/Clayton Anti-Trust legislation allowing the insurance companies to act and set prices like cartels including allowing them to raise rates as high as they want (with the caveat that the state they do this in doesn't have an appointed insurance regulator to overrule their increases). States that lack state over-site like Mississippi fall under this provision and those are the states that you will see the highest rate premium increases passed on to consumers because they can get away with it due to McCarran-Ferguson. Ironically, the states that lack the state regulators are almost all Republican (can't have big bad government attempting to save you money) and most are in the deep south where a greater % of the population is poor. So not only are the Republican leaders of those states denying their citizens expanded health care coverage granted by the ACA by rejecting the expanded Medicaid funding they also allow their constituents the privilege of receiving massive unregulated rate increases that could be lessened if ideology didn't get in the way. Talk about the costs of not voting for your best interests.

In states like Massachusetts/New York which have a state insurance regulator, annual rate increases have to be approved by the state regulator/board before they are passed onto consumers. An in the past decade, Mass has not allowed its rates to rise by more than 2-3% annually. Anything above that will be rejected by the state regulator. In all of the shutdown discourse, this sacred cows get none of the attention it deserves in the debate about revoking the plan or fixing its shortcomings. The Republicans are focused on the tax on medical devices used to fund the ACA claiming it is utterly unfair, but as someone who used to work for a company that made that equipment I can tell you that the profit margins on those devices were sky high and the source of their ire is more than likely coming from lobbyists who work for those companies trying to undo damage that might crimp their bloated profit margins.

by Anonymousreply 3710/03/2013

"yes, under the new rules you can get insurance two days after you have an accident."

You can get it but it won't become active right away and it won't cover any of the bills from the initial accident before you had the insurance. Some people seem to think that insurance will cover them retroactively. They are very, very mistaken.

by Anonymousreply 3810/03/2013

And I'm sure that shortly after January 1, 2014, we'll hear many teatard sob stories about how Obamacare is a failure because you can't retroactively buy insurance coverage.

by Anonymousreply 3910/03/2013

Are all DLers fat, unemployed gays?

by Anonymousreply 4010/03/2013

Are you a fat, unemployed gay, r40?

by Anonymousreply 4110/03/2013

Many in the larger cities will have to pay the 95 because they simply do not have the 200 plus a month after expenses. Those in the 41 to 60k pay range are the most vulnerable to paycheck to paycheck living. In most states they get no assistance and ...

well....

RENTS ARE TOO DAMNED HIGH for them to afford the insurance.

by Anonymousreply 4210/04/2013

How nice to be European and just lean back and watch Americans deal with the mysterious concept over health insurance for all. That being said, your new system is slightly better than the old humanitarian desaster, but still pretty bad compared to real universal healthcare.

by Anonymousreply 4310/04/2013

For life threatening conditions they have to treat you. After that you CAN simply apply and can't be turned down.

Read up homos...

You can have a heart attack and go to the hospital and WHILE IN THE HOSPITAL apply and get health insurance to cover the after care of that heart attack.

Sure it won't cover the heart attack itself, but so what, let them try to collect.

None of you AIDS boys has anything, you all rent and you can buy a car for cash. You don't need spotless credit.

And if you don't give the hospital treating your heart attack the right SS# they can't find you. HINT: To make it easier change name to John Smith.

by Anonymousreply 4410/04/2013

R44, if the "homos" and others, follow your suggestion, then you will only increase premiums for everyone else. That is why it is important to get everyone covered.

If the law had been done right, then this would all have been handled at the employer end, with deductions for all employees being taken automatically out of their checks. That's the way it used to be done at most companies back in the 50s and 60s when employees were actually considered a "resource". You were hired on, and you had insurance.

But, of course, the Republicans and conservative think tanks pushed for an individual mandate. This was the big Repug answer to the Clinton healthcare initiative back in the early 90s. Of course, now that there is an individual mandate, the Repugs are against it.

by Anonymousreply 4510/04/2013

good lord the koch brother trolls are going nuts about this!!

"OPT-OUT!!"

"OPT-OUT!!!"

morons.

by Anonymousreply 4610/04/2013

Duh OP

by Anonymousreply 4710/04/2013

R47 maybe there are some who are health food nuts, who only believe in holistic approaches to health.

Or even Chinese medicine.

by Anonymousreply 4810/04/2013

Am barely making my rent and utilities at the moment. Have about $30 a week to spend on groceries.

Don't have the money to buy health insurance.

by Anonymousreply 4910/04/2013

So R49 do you feel it is unfair to pay the penalty, if you are barely making ends meet?

by Anonymousreply 5010/04/2013

That's why under the ACA, the government will help you, R49. You will probably qualify for health insurance for free until you start making money. That's nice, isn't it?

by Anonymousreply 5110/04/2013

I can't wait to sign up, but I'm gonna wait a few weeks for the fervor to die down.

by Anonymousreply 5210/04/2013

I look for most insurance companies to close shop and re-open as casinos.

by Anonymousreply 5310/04/2013

[quote]You will probably qualify for health insurance for free until you start making money. That's nice, isn't it?

Please STOP using the word FREE. Nothing in life is free. Obamacare is not FREE. He may qualify for subsidies. Subsidies are not FREE. Someone is paying for them (the guys making 41-60K a year for starters...).

by Anonymousreply 5410/04/2013

R54, maybe you don't realize that those who had insurance, before ACA, were paying for those who didn't in higher premiums. Insurance rates are based on the negotiated payment schedules worked out between insurers and healthcare providers. Hospitals roll up the cost of uninsured care into the cost of delivering its services. This will, of course, continue until such time as everyone has coverage.

The bigger the risk pool, the lower the cost of insurance coverage, and the lower the cost per unit of health care provided.

by Anonymousreply 5510/04/2013

Pshhht! $95 won't even get you lunch at Le Cirque, peasant.

by Anonymousreply 5610/04/2013

{quote]Someone is paying for them (the guys making 41-60K a year for starters...).

No, that's incorrect. Recall that there are, according to the Pubbies, a trillion dollars in new taxes in Obamacare. While that's... exaggerated, the reality is that there are some new taxes. Specifically, the medical device tax, and, the biggie, the capital gains tax increase. Somehow I doubt that someone reporting income between 41K and 60K is making any substantial portion of that from capital gains returns. It falls on the Mitt Romneys of the world; why do you think he wanted to repeal it on day one? It's not like he didn't establish pretty much the same system in MA when he was governor (and of course, hightail his money out of there well in advance!).

by Anonymousreply 5710/04/2013

Also the idea of the penalty is that it will increase to the point that the penalty, on a per month basis, will be about the same as the insurance premium under ACA (supposedly about $100/month either way for a single individual).

by Anonymousreply 5810/04/2013

"Am barely making my rent and utilities at the moment. Have about $30 a week to spend on groceries.

Don't have the money to buy health insurance."

How much do you make a year?

There are only two options here. You will either qualify for Medicaid (mostly free for you) or huge subsidies because of how little you make. Or, you make too much for all of that and are choosing to blow it by living somewhere that is beyond your means.

Which one is it?

I bet you live in New York, don't you?

by Anonymousreply 5910/04/2013

I'm the guy who works in healthcare finance and has posted several times on this thread.

The major Catholic system I work for (multi-state hospitals, doctors networks, etc) resources all of our patients. We have to, just to keep the doors open.

When any uninsured patient comes in for care, we do everything possible to get them on Medicaid if they seem to meet the qualifications. We do most of the paperwork for them, and just have them sign. For Medicaid, we can usually get patients qualified retroactively so that we do not take a loss on their care.

With the AFC, we are doing everything we can (in a Repug state that does not have a state-based exchange) to get out the word about affordable coverage for those who do not qualify for Medicaid and get people to sign up.

by Anonymousreply 6010/04/2013

"I can barely make my rent payments! I can't afford $95 a year!"

This new complaint meme is ridiculous when you consider that the fine for not being covered will be taken out of income tax. It's not like you actually have to even write a check for it. If you don't make enough money a year to have an extra 100 taken out of your income tax, well you are covered by medicaid, as many have already pointed out. so the point is moot.

Nice try troll OP.

by Anonymousreply 6110/04/2013

Anyone else?

by Anonymousreply 6211/15/2013

Two Colorado Republicans want to make it easier to opt out of Obamacare by creating a tax deduction to offset the federal tax penalty for not buying health insurance.

Called the Healthcare Liberty Act, the proposal would “provide a state tax deduction for Coloradans, in an amount equal to the federal tax penalty, levied against them for failing to purchase health insurance as mandated by President Obama’s Affordable Care Act.”

by Anonymousreply 6312/19/2013

They should call it the "Freedom to Die in the Gutter Act."

My employers currently pay about $5000 a year for my insurance, which is not a Cadillac plan, believe me. If I paid for my own insurance plan pre-Obamacare it would be more like $10,000 a year for the same thing. So $95 really doesn't look like such a terrible burden to me.

by Anonymousreply 6412/19/2013

I assume not paying for health insurance will negatively affect credit ratings. Which will mean in addition to the fine, you'll have no credit cards, not be able to buy a car (you claim you can't afford), etc. etc. etc.

by Anonymousreply 6512/19/2013

That sounds fair, #63. No muss, no fu$$.

Right now, I can't afford the cheapest coverage on that site ($330/mo.).

by Anonymousreply 6612/19/2013

I'm paying the penalty. My state hasn't expanded Medicaid coverage so I would have to pay $295 a month for shitty insurance. $6500 or $6800 deductible, $200 emergency room co-pay, $50 office visit co-pay.

I'm unemployed. Even if I were employed I couldn't afford $295 a month for insurance. A few years ago I had to be admitted to the hospital for a week. The cost was $21,000 (no surgery either). There was a charity program that paid the hospital part of the bill. I had to pay the Dr's bills. If I had Obamacare I wouldn't be eligible for the charity program and I would have had to declare bankruptcy.

So no, I'm not paying $295 a month only to have to declare bankruptcy if I am hospitalized again. I could get myself into this financial mess without paying $295 a month

by Anonymousreply 6712/19/2013

[quote] And if you don't give the hospital [quote] treating your heart attack the right SS# they can't find you. HINT: To make it easier change name to John Smith

I don't think so Mr Know It All. You have to have two forms of I.D in the emergency room. If you don't they will admit you, but when they are registering you at the hospital they are run your name, social security number and date of birth through a credit reporting agency. And they will know you are lying immediately. And when you are admitted to the hospital they take your blood. And when they do that they now have a sample of your DNA. You will not be able to fuck over the hospital. If people could, every hospital in the country would have gone out of business 20 years ago

You can try to give them a false name, they will find out immediately and the police will be called and you will be charged with fraud and a host of other charges

by Anonymousreply 6812/19/2013

On 60 minutes they estimated that 5 million Americans will pay the penalty.

So that will be 500 million dollars the Government will collect.

by Anonymousreply 6904/06/2014

After the accident where you were driving the car that injured people can you get insurance claiming the pre-existing condition of alcoholism?

by Anonymousreply 7004/06/2014

This really varies from state to state. I haven't had health insurance for about five years and wasn't expecting much from Obamacare. Much to my surprise I'm eligible for the benefit that lowers the premium rates so I can get coverage for just over $100/month. That's still more than $95/year but how long can my luck hold out?

Also, in my state we have a medical component to our auto insurance that helps cover accident injuries so it's not as if drivers are ever totally unprotected as long as they have the legally required car insurance.

by Anonymousreply 7104/06/2014

[quote]So that will be 500 million dollars the Government will collect.

So, 0.4% of the deficit? Party time!

by Anonymousreply 7204/06/2014

I. Have no job. No income. My car just got repod. My bf has been paying my rent but he's not exactly rolling in it. I got denied for Medicaid. The cheapest wuote I got from the website was around $200. I don't even have the money for food so I didn't sign up.

It does suck because I don't want to be without insurance, but I've been out of work for 3 months and I just don't have the money.

by Anonymousreply 7304/06/2014

My friend attempted to get it, but he would be socked with a 3K deductible. He's young and in good health, so unless something traumatic happened, he wouldn't even come close to satisfying the deductible. He's decided not to get it, pay the penalty, continue to get free medical care (though probably substandard care) at a clinic in his neighborhood.

by Anonymousreply 7404/06/2014

R74, when I looked at plans available to me I noticed the high deductibles, too, so I specifically sought out the plans that offered co-pays to see the primary physician before fulfilling the deductible. There were only two such plans I could come close to affording.

R73, how in the world did you get denied for Medicaid when you have no income?

by Anonymousreply 7504/06/2014

R75, I don't know! I applied for Medicaid, SNAP and TANF. I got SNAP benefits but on the phone interview I was told (very rudely actually) that TANF and Medicaid was "only for families".

by Anonymousreply 7604/06/2014

Our family of 3 is saving $450 a month and we have kept our favorite doctor and been added to another network. We'll also get money back at tax time. I love Obamacare. No, it's not single payer but it's nice to get lumps professionally checked out without worrying about getting flagged for preexisting conditions.

by Anonymousreply 7704/06/2014

[quote]You can try to give them a false name, they will find out immediately and the police will be called and you will be charged with fraud and a host of other charges

How come hospitals aren't charged with fraud for padding the bill by charging $25 for a box of Kleenex?

by Anonymousreply 7804/07/2014

I have an in-law who was certain she could not afford Obamacare, and filled-up her Facebook page with complaints about it. Then she actually spoke with a navigator, and found a plan that was cheaper then her existing plan, let her keep her doctor, and had a lower deductible, but you won't hear from her about it on Facebook. She's been brainwashed by the Fox tabloid network into hating something that isn't real. This is a common story. People hate it until they actually see it.

Also, the old plan she had was a crappy "catastrophic" plan that would have been a disappointment if she actually needed it.

by Anonymousreply 7904/07/2014

R79 I've seen that time and time again.

So many freepers don't even bother to try to examine the costs.

by Anonymousreply 8004/07/2014

r69 bumped this thread after the other one was closed. His/her motives are clear.

by Anonymousreply 8104/07/2014

Some facts:

Medical cost inflation has almost stopped since ACA was passed, the first time this has happened since the 1960s.

Gallup poll published today finds 8 million more people insured at Mar 31 than last year.

In some ways Obamacare does help the insurance history more than you. Bronze plans have a $6K deductible, more than the poor people who buy them can afford. So how does it benefit the Big Medicine? A 6K debt is unlikely to force even the poorest people into bankruptcy so medical providers will be much better equipped to collect something on the work they do.

by Anonymousreply 8204/07/2014

R81 I bumped the thread because 60 Minutes had a piece of the penalty last night.

by Anonymousreply 8304/07/2014

[quote] In some ways Obamacare does help the insurance history more than you. Bronze plans have a $6K deductible, more than the poor people who buy them can afford. So how does it benefit the Big Medicine? A 6K debt is unlikely to force even the poorest people into bankruptcy so medical providers will be much better equipped to collect something on the work they do.

It's $6800. Or at least that's what it is in the Obamacare insurance in my state. That's half the salary of a person who makes minimum wage. And they still have to pay $280 to $350 a month for insurance. If they are hospitalized that is enough to bankrupt them because they won't be able to ever pay that $6800 deductible. I'd be really mad if I was paying almost $300 a month for insurance and still had to declare bankruptcy

by Anonymousreply 8404/07/2014

I'm paying $391 a month for a gold plan and I have a $6350 annual out of pocket. I'm self employed and that's almost 25% of my annual income.

I picked up the gold plan mostly because I've been in less than stellar health the past few years. Was with and without insurance several times over the past 4 years when I lost my job. When I got a job a couple of years ago and got insurance again, the insurance wouldn't pay for anything, everything I had was a "preexisting condition."

I started freelancing when my job was sent overseas last summer. Grabbed insurance through a state plan since the company i worked for was too small to do COBRA. My insurance ran out in December. My plan under Obamacare kicked in March 1.

I was sick as a dog all of February and did everything I could to try and avoid the doctors since it took me several years to pay off all the unpaid medical bills from a few years ago.

A few weeks ago I see my doctor. My blood work came back with some issues. I was sent in for a CT scan due to the blood work. CT scan was not good and I got a diagnosis for a terminal disease.

Last weekend I started bleeding out of my ass. I got to the emergency room and was admitted. Spend a couple of days. The bill so far is hovering around $20K from what I can tell from what has shown up on the insurance company's website. I'll be on the hook for $6350 of that. It seems kind of pointless to pay that much money for insurance and still have such a huge out of pocket which for somebody with a crap income is just as likely to push somebody into bankruptcy as a catastrophic bill.

I go in tomorrow to see a specialist and then to have a biopsy and maybe find out how long I have. I can't believe that even though I bought the best plan I could, I'm going to have to be concerned about having that ridiculous out of pocket hanging over me head while I deal with this illness.

by Anonymousreply 8504/07/2014

Dear R25 I don't have insurance, I went to the California site and my coverage would be $425 a month with a $5000 deductible. I make $43,000 a year and I can't afford it.

by Anonymousreply 8604/07/2014

You should be entitled to help with your premiums if your income is that level R85. In my state it would be close to $200 a month help.

by Anonymousreply 8704/07/2014

And if you have a gold plan you wouldn't have $6350 out of pocket wuold you, unless you got one with hospital co-insurance rather than total coverage (and why would you?)

by Anonymousreply 8804/07/2014

R87, I opted for the Gold Plan because I knew I was ill. I am getting subsidy of around $100 a month.

If I opted for the bronze plan I could be paying $200 a month and a $2500 annual deductible. My current plan has no deductibles, but all of the plans have the $6350 annual out of pocket. So basically as of right now if I had picked the cheaper plan I'd be having to come up with $8850 vs $6350 for my adventure at the hospital last week.

Since I'm going to end up needing at lot more care, this will be less expensive for me, but an annual $6350 out of pocket is a lot of money for what I am paying.

by Anonymousreply 8904/07/2014

And if you have a doctor why would you go to the emergency room for a bleeding ass?

by Anonymousreply 9004/07/2014

A friend lives in Georgia and is going to have to take the penalty. He's 52 and doesn't make much, less than $12K a year. Because Georgia didn't expand Medicare, he doesn't get any subsidies and he can't afford the insurance. Something like 600,000 people in Georgia alone are in the same predicament.

I KNOW this is the fault of Republicans who want these people to think Obamacare "failed," and I know there are a lot of pro-ACA people on DL, but I have a lot of trouble supporting such a flawed system. How could this have been passed when literally millions of the poorest people in something like 15 states will be left out in the cold?

How can some of you be cheering it on and screaming at those who say they can't afford it? Are you not aware of the states that refused to expand Medicare?

by Anonymousreply 9104/07/2014

R91-

It's the fault of Republicans AND Democrats that have spent 100 years adding new regulations and subsidies to medical care.

Just pass a one sentence law- "anyone who opens a health care or insurance practice outside the current regulations will be allowed to provide any treatment at any price despite FDA, AMA, Medicare, Medicaid, or any other regulations but they will be responsible for malpractice insurance as individuals"

If I decide to become a surgeon, no insurer would cover me. I'd be on my own...and I suck at surgery.

A practiced surgeon who could open his or her own surgical clinic, with ZERO government paperwork could provide amazing care at very low prices.

by Anonymousreply 9204/07/2014

Which is why Libertarians have no say over healthcare policy. What keeps you or me from declaring myself a surgeon with no training whatsoever?

Pathetic idiots.

by Anonymousreply 9304/07/2014

[quote] And if you have a doctor why would you go to the emergency room for a bleeding ass?

Because you can bleed to death by waiting until you can get an appointment with your dr

Where the hell do you live that you can just go to the dr anytime you want?

by Anonymousreply 9404/07/2014

[quote] A practiced surgeon who could open his or her own surgical clinic, with ZERO government paperwork could provide amazing care at very low prices.

He probably could. He just wouldn't be able to get paid for anything by Medicaid or Medicare. Dr's don't have to take Medicare and Medicaid patients

Hospitals don't have to be accredited by JCAHO. If they don't have accreditation, they will not get one dime from Medicare and Medicaid. But almost all hospitals need government money to survive. Any hospital that loses its accreditation would have to close

by Anonymousreply 9504/07/2014

Thanks, #91. I'm so tired of the Rah-Rah Obam-ah. Not every state is so progressive, esp. those with a Repug Gov.

I think it's despicable that they took something so noble- affordabale healthcare for everyone- and turned it into another fucking moneymaking trap for the idealistic sheeple. Everything they do is to squeeze another penny out of the peasants.

If it's so wonderful, why are they going to "fine" us for not participating?

by Anonymousreply 9604/07/2014

The Chickering Group, which underwrites many college student policies, is particularly crooked. I think it's an Aetna subsidiary.

The smartest thing college students who are poor could do (especially at colleges that mandate coverage) is qualify for Medicaid. The students will pay nothing. They're a particularly healthy group. And the "public" numbers will increase supporting a "single payer" system down the road.

by Anonymousreply 9704/07/2014

R84 - What plan is it that someone working full time earning minimum wage costs them $300 a month?

Here is link to a subsidy calculator.

The truth is when the ACA passed Democrats had majorities in the House and Senate and they had the White House. But they were far from liberal or progressive majorities in the House and Senate.

by Anonymousreply 9804/07/2014

r90, I was told to go to the emergency room because my spleen is not functioning correctly, I have next to no platelets and and am not clotting. I was bleeding so bad internally that it was coming out my rear. If not taken care of quickly I would have bled to death. I had to wait 3 weeks to get the appointment with the specialist I am seeing.

by Anonymousreply 9904/07/2014

After the enrollment period, you can't just sign up if you "get in an accident." Enrollment will be closed until the end of 2014 for new plans starting in 2015. There are exceptions for this IF you actually LOSE your insurance during 2014, as a result of losing your job, graduating school, etc. Then it triggers a special enrollment session for that person

by Anonymousreply 10004/07/2014

Start praying really,really hard.

by Anonymousreply 10104/07/2014

R93-

If you claimed to be a surgeon BUT no one would recommend you, no UL (United Labs) type company would vouch for you, no insurance company would insure you, no private group would employ you...where is the harm?

by Anonymousreply 10204/07/2014

[quote] What plan is it that someone working full time earning minimum wage costs them $300 a month?

In Georgia. And actually that is the plan for me. I'm unemployed. I have no money coming in. Georgia refuses to expand medicaid coverage.

by Anonymousreply 10304/07/2014

R95-

[quote]He probably could. He just wouldn't be able to get paid for anything by Medicaid or Medicare. Dr's don't have to take Medicare and Medicaid patients.

Why take 0.38 cents on the dollar in Medicare/Aid when you can charge 0.17 cents on the dollar and avoid ALL the paperwork.

So, if you allowed ANYONE to provide medical service as long as they explicitly told customers they were "outside the government control and regulation" then why stop them?

If I wanted to contract with a doctor/hospital and set MY OWN RATES and they can take it or leave it, why not?

Why do you want to give the government MORE power over our lives?

by Anonymousreply 10404/07/2014

R103-

If the government didn't drive the price of med care so high, didn't distort the market by requiring BS, wasn't in the pockets of the wealthy lobbyists in the AMA and insurance conglomerate banks...you would be able to get cheap insurance that was far superior to what we have.

Doctors, hospitals, insurance companies...they all have myriad regulations and bullshit codes they must follow. I saw it when my grandmother died, my cousin died and then I almost died MYSELF!

The regulations are ignorant bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 10504/07/2014

[R76] My friend lives in South Carolina and was told the same thing about Medicare. The rules are different in every state.

I make next to nothing at this point and in September I will be on Medicare. I went on the site for health care and got really good insurance for a good price, a good subsidy. I could have picked something on a lower level and paid even less.

by Anonymousreply 10604/07/2014

[quote]A practiced surgeon who could open his or her own surgical clinic, with ZERO government paperwork could provide amazing care at very low prices.

And how am I supposed to know that this person is a trained surgeon and not some Libertarian twat (e.g., Rand Paul) playing doctor?

And don't tell me the market will fix it. It won't.

by Anonymousreply 10704/07/2014

Yes it will, R107.

If you needed surgery--- non-urgent ---and you knew that your choice of Dr came down to the Doc with 5 different insurance companies indemnifying him but costing 10k (the vast majority paid by your non government regulated insurance) or the Doc with 2 but costing $500, which do you choose?

If either one fucks up, their insurers will be compelled to pay. The former patient pays his $200/mo, while you pay $25/mo, and your access to experimental treatment is limited---or that cheap is only available to those who submit to new tech--- well, there are millions of ways the cost/benefit/treatment matrix can be played out.

Giving all power to the government and removing any personal responsibility is the height of arrogant madness.

Our government controlled medical system SUCKS!

Why not get the government out of the matrix?

by Anonymousreply 10804/07/2014

I cannot understand why there are such high deductibles when some of you are paying $350-$650 and up a month out of pocket. I almost fainted when a friend, who pays $750 a month for healthcare, still has outrageous deductibles. IMHO, it appears the health insurance companies are still winning!

I'm self-employed, I'm a freelance Art Director, I've paid out of pocket into my HMO plan since 1984. Sure, I was young and healthy when I opted for an HMO, it was all I could afford at the time. With HMOs/managed care I'm limited to see the doctors within my medical group, but for serious illnesses such as cancer, the HMO does have a list of doctors affiliated with top hospitals who accept my HMO plan, such as NY Pres. etc)

Over the past few years my health has not been the best (I have HBP, which appears to be genetic, my dad has heart disease). I've had two surgeries, unrelated to my HBP, I was 100% covered. There were NO deductibles, NO co-pays, nothing. My monthly premiums covered everything, that's the way most insurance plans should be, unfortunately, under the AHCA, I don't see this gettting better for consumers.

Most of you are not going to like what I have to say, buy why weren't the self-employed people in this thread already paying into their own health insurance plans? You were without insurance during all your years of freelancing?

It stands to reason, having the same insurance plan longer, your premiums might be less than anyone trying to get into a new plan as a self-employed or single payer patient. Do all these new plans on the exchange have deductibles?

Over the years, when I called my HMO to complain about rate hikes, I've been reminded, many times: "Your plan no longer exists, if you were to ever drop it, you cannot get this low monthly rate for a similar plan."

I currently pay $425 a month, I have 100% coverage for surgery, diagnostic tests (colonsocopy, MRI etc) as well as blood tests. I have small co-pays for my medications. That's $5100 a year with no extra costs, except low co-pays for medication. Of course, over the years I've struggled trying to pay premiums when some of my accounts dried out, but I cut back in other areas.

As for Medicaid, in NY state, a single person can apply for Medicaid, if you make no more than $1,000 a month, you are eligible.

The reason why unemployed people cannot easily get Medicaid, you must show some means of support to qualify, even a part time job. You can be an adult who is supported by a parent or a relative, you just need to provide a signed letter of support. Like the ceiling amount allowed for a low income worker, the support amount can be no more than $1000, which, of course, means your rent/monthly expenses cannot exceed $1000. Difficult to do in a place like NYC.

For most young people living in NYC, especially those new to the city, I doubt they'd have such a low rent unless then can prove they have a roommate or two.

by Anonymousreply 10904/07/2014

I never imagined our country could enact something as stupid as Pelosicare.

Of course, had the election gone the other way, we could be scared to death of the Palin Doctrine by now.

by Anonymousreply 11004/07/2014

[quote] So, if you allowed ANYONE to provide medical service as long as they explicitly told customers they were "outside the government control and regulation" then why stop them? If I wanted to contract with a doctor/hospital and set MY OWN RATES and they can take it or leave it, why not?

Insurance companies would also not deal with a dr that doesn't want to comply with regulations.

[quote] Why do you want to give the government MORE power over our lives?

Christ, you sound like a lunatic

[quote] Doctors, hospitals, insurance companies...they all have myriad regulations and bullshit codes they must follow. I saw it when my grandmother died, my cousin died and then I almost died MYSELF!

I can guarantee you that almost every regulation mandated by the government is because a bunch of people died or almost died because no regulation existed or there weren't any regulations and many medical providers were able to steal a lot of money from the government. Those reasons are why regulations are enacted. And a lot of these regulations and bullshit codes you say they must follow are actually regulations/codes that the insurance companies mandated

There actually are drs who won't take Obamacare, Medicaid, Medicare or any insurance. All their patients pay cash. And despite not having to deal with insurance companies or the govt, they generally are as expensive or more expensive than doctors who do accept these programs

by Anonymousreply 11104/07/2014

[quote] A practiced surgeon who could open his or her own surgical clinic, with ZERO government paperwork could provide amazing care at very low prices.

You obviously don't know how much surgeons make. After working in a teaching hospital for over 8 yrs, I have met about 120 surgeons and not one of them would ever consider providing amazing care at very low prices. And I've never heard of a surgeon who doesn't take insurance. They'd be bankrupt if they didn't.

I'll tell you how our country got into this mess, we got into it because of Doctors. Back in the 1960's and 1970's they are the ones who decided HMO's were the way to go. They all thought they were going to make more money and do less work. That sure as hell didn't work out that way at all. It backfired on them and they've been bitching and moaning. You might hear a surgeon bitch and moan about regulations and how they are holding them back, but there isn't one of them that would take low pay with no regulations over high pay with lots of regulations. And the insurance companies followed what the HMO's were doing. No dr on earth has to take insurance, Medicaid or Medicare. The ones that do, willingly chose to do that

by Anonymousreply 11204/07/2014

indeed

by Anonymousreply 11304/08/2014

Those Cuban guys in Miami that do booty enhancement surgery by injecting cooking oil and Fix-a-Flat into your ass - ZERO regulation happening there. The free market sure didn't prevent them from killing people. And nobody did a damn thing until the Feds found out.

In a perfect Libertarian world, predators would have total freedom to kill people at their leisure. Which I guess is why Libertarians have never been in charge.

by Anonymousreply 11404/08/2014

It's impossible to have an honest discussion here because of all the Freeper liars. Separating them from the merely uninformed is a full time job. None-the-less, for the bleeding-out-the-ass guy, if you were admitted, you should have a low cap on your hospital expenses. Please be sure to tell us all what it is, when you know. Mine is $0. When not admitted, it's $75, I think. Most cranks come on to social media, complain about dadgumit Obamacare, and never correct their misstatements, leading to others being misinformed.

by Anonymousreply 11504/08/2014

A fee years ago, I worked closely with a boss who coughed over me for a couple months before I got pneumonia. Otherwise, I'm perfectly healthy. The hospital thought it might be TB because of all the Indians I work with, and because I was coughing-up blood by my second ER visit (the first time the bastards sent me home). So, the bastards but me in an isolation unit behind a negative pressure double door. Bill: $35,000. Cost to me: $0. I am glad I had insurance!

by Anonymousreply 11604/08/2014

Share the house by moving in together

That's the way they became the Brady Brides

And Ann B Alice as Davis....

by Anonymousreply 11704/08/2014

r109, who is your provider? I had an HMO through Oxford back in the 90s when I was freelancing and I paid around $100 a month and everything was covered. I know from other people that Oxford and other insurance companies were trying to push out their single policy holders and raising rates like crazy.

I now have 100% employer-sponsored coverage through Blue Cross. Even though I don't pay anything out of pocket every month, I have a $1,000 deductible and $50 co-pays. Then Blue Cross pays the doctor/lab a percentage of the treatment and I get a bill for the rest. If I was ever seriously sick or hurt (knock wood) all of that extra out-of-pocket would add up.

by Anonymousreply 11804/08/2014

[quote]I'm self-employed, I'm a freelance Art Director, I've paid out of pocket into my HMO plan since 1984.

Why are you not in your Guild? You'd have union sponsored health insurance, probably the best that there is out there.

by Anonymousreply 11904/08/2014

I am not paying the 95 dollars fuck them

by Anonymousreply 12004/08/2014

America, rise up and stand your ground !

by Anonymousreply 12104/08/2014

A lot of people are going to get a rude awakening when they find finally take notice of the "or" and that they're paying a lot more than $95.

by Anonymousreply 12204/08/2014

R103 - you have a problem. Due to the US Supreme Court decision states don't have to expand Medicaid . Leaving a hell of a lot of people in your position. No Medicaid and no subsidy.

Which is why I was responding to and asked what plan someone earning minimum wage was costing $300 a month.

Someone on minimum wage actually gets a tax subsidy I can't find an example of plan where they would have to pay $300 a month. More like $700 a year.

Unfortunately Obama, the Democrats and the Republicans don't seem to want to fix your problem.

by Anonymousreply 12304/08/2014

What a weird system. What about all the crazies, substance abusers, slackers, etc. who just can't even manage to navigate through the sign-up process? In the rest of the civilized world you don't have to opt in and sign-up. You're born covered. It's called the principle of universality.

by Anonymousreply 12404/08/2014

One per cent of zero income from an unemployed person is still zero. Ninety five dollars from someone with no income is virtually impossible to collect.

by Anonymousreply 12504/08/2014

R125 what about at income tax time?

by Anonymousreply 12604/08/2014

What kind of refund would a single person with no income and no tax credits get? They cannot even get cash assistance from welfare unless they have young children.

by Anonymousreply 12704/08/2014

Democrats don't have the cojones to enforce this fine.

Not 1 single person will EVER have to pay it.

by Anonymousreply 12804/08/2014

R128 what about at tax time?

by Anonymousreply 12904/08/2014

I'm not paying that much for a penalty, it's too much!

by Anonymousreply 13004/08/2014

Whether their rage is real or not, the Repugs, FOX news, etc. seem to be the only ones examining the fine print.

Dems, liberals, etc. are Obamacare's foot soldiers.

The people paying for this will be the working poor, living paycheck to paycheck. Another monthly bill pushes the American Dream for lower middle classers further and further away.

I think the 1%-ers should pay into a fund for the healthcare of everyone else. They build their empires on our backs, and rarely share the wealth.

by Anonymousreply 13104/08/2014

It will be very interesting to see "what about tax time " in 2015. The plan may be defunct by then. Why do you think they're not even attempting to collect it this year? I heartily agree with r128, they haven't got a plan or the balls.

by Anonymousreply 13204/08/2014

The only way you can "pay" is if you are getting a refund and the penalty is deducted from your refund. It won't matter, the penalty will be long gone before next year's filing deadline.

by Anonymousreply 13304/08/2014

Still won't happen R129.

Dems are terrified of losing one single vote.

by Anonymousreply 13404/08/2014

Is OP a spy for the IRS ?

by Anonymousreply 13504/08/2014

They seem to be shutting down any thread that mentions Obama,or any opposition to his grand plan. Today Sebelius resigned. Is Big Brother watching us?

by Anonymousreply 13604/10/2014

R34-

I wish I lived in your fantasy world.

by Anonymousreply 13704/10/2014

R107-

The UL (that's United Labs, the people that certify electronics) model works.

If I needed care and saw that the closest provider had zero stars from Yelp4Docs, I would choose a Dr that had great reviews from DrYelp, Angie's Dr list, MalPractice.net and any other of dozens of sites that would certify and insure my doctor if he fucked up.

You have terminal cancer and want to try that experimental drug? Well, you could indemnify your Dr (or the Dr that took on the risk) and raise your survival chance from 1% to 5%.

The FDA is evil.

by Anonymousreply 13804/10/2014

R109-

[quote]IMHO, it appears the health insurance companies are still winning!

They wrote the PP-ACA (Obamacare) so of course they are making money.

They are protected by the government, and allow zero competition.

Solution- allow people AND docs to "opt-out"- they see patients, can contract to offer private insurance, give any drug (no FDA) and leave the government controlled system behind.

If you really want to help the poor, this model is the only sane way to do it. It I'll destroy government care- Medicaid and Medicare- because people want the freedom while at the same time giving the government MORE MONEY to fund Medicare/Aid since fewer people are using it.

by Anonymousreply 13904/10/2014

What part of our lives will the government attempt to control next?

by Anonymousreply 14004/10/2014

It will mandate how many times you will be allowed to flush the toilet per day. And is it really necessary to use toilet paper?

by Anonymousreply 14104/10/2014

It will mandate that you download an app that measures your BMI, weight, food intake and activity. If your fat % goes above a limit you have an automatic fee tacked onto your premium. The app will know if you're smoking, drinking, snacking on junk, having unprotected sex, driving over the speed limit, stealing office supplies, and how you are planning to vote. The app will be part of your internally implanted device. You will have to pay for the app, or else pay a fine.

by Anonymousreply 14204/10/2014

I honestly don't people who are SO paranoid about "Big Government."

Government is made up of individual human beings.

WE are the government in many ways.

W/O government this country would be a libertarian NIGHTMARE.

by Anonymousreply 14304/11/2014

R109-

Get the government OUT of health care.

Just pass a law that says--

--1--Any citizen can provide health care services.

--2--Those services will not be covered by Meicare, Medicaid, or any state or federal chartered insurance company.

--3--Anyone who wants to deposit money with a non-recognized insurance company will be able to deduct those deposits from federal taxes.

--41-No services provided will be adjudicated by the government.

Basically get the government OUT of medicine.

If this happened the government controlled health care system would be dead within weeks.

by Anonymousreply 14404/11/2014

R144=genocidal maniac

by Anonymousreply 14504/11/2014

Where's my fucking paperwork?!

by Anonymousreply 14604/11/2014

If you don't have income this year, the fine will carry forward into next year, probably with interest. Eventually, hopefully, you will have income and the fines from all the years you go without insurance will be deducted from your tax refund. So, you will pay, eventually.

And you should pay the fine! If you're going without insurance now, and get hurt, you'll get treatment that the rest of us pay for through high medical bills.

by Anonymousreply 14704/11/2014

To R141, Honestly, I don't feel oppressed. I think it's silly to worry that "we the people" will oppress me.

by Anonymousreply 14804/11/2014

To the people in states where the state government refuses to expand Medicare - this is why you should vote Democrat in the next election. Blue state people in your situation are getting medical coverage at affordable rates, and so should you!

by Anonymousreply 14904/11/2014

I made a doctors appointment and they asked is your insurance Obamacare? I couldn't tell if they meant that as a good thing or a bad thing.

by Anonymousreply 15004/11/2014

Fuck the libertarian troll and kill him.

I volunteer for that.

by Anonymousreply 15104/11/2014

R144-

You could keep your Obamacare. Nothing would change for you.

Allowing Doctors create free market clinics and hospitals where the government was not allowed to prescribe or proscribe certifications or treatments- drugs, techniques, technology- would cause Obamacare to fail, but only because it was outside government control. Patients and doctors would jointly create a plan that they both agreed upon.

He dies- his insurance company gives his family $100k. He lives- he owes the whatever they negotiated. If he says "you take 10% of my income for 20 years if I life"...well, he's still alive or the doctor is screwed.

Look at "Dallas Buyers Club"- the government kept killing these men until one man stood up and told them to fuck off because they were keeping a life saving drug to dying people. The government could not care less if they died!!!

by Anonymousreply 15204/11/2014

R152, you seek to treat people like a commodity. MAA if a list live could be compensate with money like a lost suitcase. Your being shortsighted, to put it kindly. Most people don't have your values, and thank God our legal and regulatory systems don't.

by Anonymousreply 15304/12/2014

Meanwhile, Paul Krugman writes:

[quote] And while supposed Obamacare horror stories keep on turning out to be false, it’s already quite easy to find examples of people who died because their states refused to expand Medicaid. According to one recent study, the death toll from Medicaid rejection is likely to run between 7,000 and 17,000 Americans each year

Why pay the $95 when you could just die instead? Yeah, that'll show them!

by Anonymousreply 15404/12/2014

exactly...

by Anonymousreply 15504/12/2014

In the spirit of the Libertarian Idiot Troll's(TM) highly amusing healthcare proposals @R144, I hereby declare myself a surgeon.

Now, who wants an appendectomy?? First one's free!

by Anonymousreply 15604/12/2014

R149, you mean Medicaid, not Medicare. Big difference.

by Anonymousreply 15704/12/2014

Do I look worried..... No way in hell this fine ever gets enforced!

It will fall by the wayside, just like the Medicare Advantage cuts and the employer mandate(after it's delayed abt 30 times).

by Anonymousreply 15804/12/2014

R158-

Obama has already changed who has to pay and who is exempt.

by Anonymousreply 15904/15/2014

NO

by Anonymousreply 16004/15/2014

R160-

Obama has changed the criteria, and extended the deadlines, far outside the law.

He is just Bush or Clinton or Reagan with a darker skin.

Our government is evil and corrupt.

by Anonymousreply 16104/15/2014

R161, your expectations are ridiculous. The Democrats are the peace and prosperity party, the Republicans are the 1%-ers and ignorance and racism party.

And yes, it takes 8 years for the Dems to cleanup the all the damage the Repubs created.

by Anonymousreply 16204/15/2014

r161 doesn't even sound American.

So.....

by Anonymousreply 16304/16/2014

R162 only sees the world in black and white.

Neither political party is anywhere close to pure.

by Anonymousreply 16404/16/2014

No, neither one is.

But one is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH worse than the other.

by Anonymousreply 16504/16/2014

R165-

Both parties are beholden to the big corporations and banks. They could not care less about the bottom 99.9%.

by Anonymousreply 16604/16/2014

The point of Obamacare was to help people get healthcare. To do that, to make it possible, it had to be implemented through the existing infrastructure, otherwise the entrenched interests would have fought and killed it, and they came close to doing so as it was. This is not the sane as being "beholden to the big corporations and banks".

And the Dems passed the Dodd-Frank bill, which the banks hate.

The Dens fight for working people and the 99%, but politics is the art of the possible. In a fantasy world, the Dens wouldn't have to compromise, but in the real world, compromise is necessary to get anything done.

by Anonymousreply 16704/16/2014

No to the false equivalence troll.

No no no.

Democrats are vastly superior to Republicans, even though they are far from perfect.

by Anonymousreply 16804/17/2014

R167-

No. Just...no. You really think millionaire Democrats give a shit about you?

by Anonymousreply 16904/17/2014
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