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and the government is shut down.

now what? make you predictions here...

by Anonymousreply 23112/27/2013

damn it. make YOUR predictions here!

by Anonymousreply 110/01/2013

The Republicans OWN this shut-down.

by Anonymousreply 210/01/2013

r8

Boehner always looks and sounds like a drunk used-car salesman. Is this the first time you noticed that?

by Anonymousreply 910/01/2013

r3 would be our resident libertarian troll, living in his fantasy world, and i don't know what the fuck r4's damage is. she's just not right.

now carry on with the predictions. will there be riots? will the stock market crash in the morning? will i get my junk mail?

by Anonymousreply 1010/01/2013

I condole any members of the underclass who may suffer during this difficult time.

by Anonymousreply 1310/01/2013

R9, no actually it's not, but I'm always up for a drunk Boehner reference.

by Anonymousreply 1410/01/2013

Meh

by Anonymousreply 1610/01/2013

I don't get it...how do you shut a government down? Does everyone just go home without pay? Would this be a good time to be looking for Aaron Schock on Grindr?

by Anonymousreply 2310/01/2013

R23:

There are two classes of federal employees, exempted and nonexempted. Exempted is supposed to consist of people in critical positions and first responders, but in times like these I feel like higher-ups who aren't even essential will be taken care of.

To add insult to injury, I, a nonexempted employee, must go in to work this morning just so I can be sent home. It's like Congress is going out of their way to make this as humiliating as possible.

by Anonymousreply 2510/01/2013

My mother works for the federal government. She's considered essential. They will still pay her for coming in, but she won't get a check for it until everything's back up again.

by Anonymousreply 2610/01/2013

R26, Christine Romans just said on CNN that last time there was a shutdown they did give government employees backpay at a later date, but that there are no guarantees it will happen this time.

by Anonymousreply 2710/01/2013

r23

Cockgobbler Aaron Schock won't have any extra time to spend on Grindr. Congress will remain in session during the government shutdown.

by Anonymousreply 2910/01/2013

R27, rest assured, R26's precious mommy will get hers. Exempted employees who work will get paid...just not necessarily on time. The rest of us will probably get screwed.

by Anonymousreply 3010/01/2013

[quote]What kind of sociopaths try to shut down society...

The government is not the same as society. Are you really that stupid?

by Anonymousreply 3110/01/2013

This is a wet dream for the tea party. They hate government, therfore, shut it down.

by Anonymousreply 3310/01/2013

Death of the Republican Party within 2 years.

by Anonymousreply 3410/01/2013

Republicans will be the result of America's collapse. Of course they'll blame it on the gays, but Republicans will cause the America's collapse. Watch and see.

by Anonymousreply 3610/01/2013

Those of us in the medical community can now turn away soldiers since we won't be paid for treating them.

by Anonymousreply 3810/01/2013

It will probably last a week, this shutdown. I think public opinion will turn on the GOP House and its Tea Party wing. Not dramatically, but lopsided-enough blame, just enough tilt, that it prompts the GOP House to press the brakes on their insanity. But only for a moment, then the Debt Ceiling fight rears its equally ugly head.

by Anonymousreply 3910/01/2013

Republifuckers have lost, in reality, FOUR Presidential elections in a row now, and still have this power to fuck things up big time. Loathesome examples of humanity that they are.

by Anonymousreply 4010/01/2013

69% of the American people say the Federal Government should not be shut down to stop Obamacare. 72% blame Republicans for the shutdown. And 69% say the Republicans are acting like spoiled children.

by Anonymousreply 4110/01/2013

[quote]Republifuckers have lost, in reality, FOUR Presidential elections in a row now

Six, but we got two of them back

by Anonymousreply 4210/01/2013

R3 = delusional moron who doesn't understand facts, reality, or history. Or Law. Or the Constitution. Or the will of the people. Or government, really, at all.

by Anonymousreply 4310/01/2013

On Philly.com in an article about how our historic monuments are shut down, one of the resident Tea Partiers thinks shutting down our historic parks (as well as a major source of tourism in a city that has otherwise little to offer) is an act of "defending the Constitution."

Apparently, to the Tea Party, "defending the Constitution" means shutting down the birthplace of the Constitution.

They are bad Americans. Remind them of this constantly these next few days. As one who appreciates our historic monuments and parks, now...it's fucking personal.

by Anonymousreply 4410/01/2013

The Republican party is a party of treason. As long as they exist in their current form, they are a present danger to the nation. I wouldn't be surprised if there are terror attacks while the government is shut down. Since the GOP is enshrined in our two party system the only way to fix it is to get left progressives to switch en masse to the Republican primaries next spring and beat their asses. A slate of PROGRESSIVES under the Republican banner can save this nation by moving its politics left. It has to be done carefully and discreetly to work.

by Anonymousreply 4510/01/2013

The United States Congress insatiable appetite to molest the American people with its deceitful, deceptive, self serving rhetoric preserves its place in psychiatric annals defining, deliberate dysfunctionals.

by Anonymousreply 4610/01/2013

Obama as strong as I've ever seen him, in TV remarks just now. None of the old "I'm sure we can be reasonable together" palaver that made me want to reach through the screen and shake him. Today he was confident and unwavering, kicking ass and naming names.

I like this very much.

by Anonymousreply 4710/01/2013

The view in Europe is this is Republicans being childish brats and holding their breath 'til they get what they want. Is that the case or are the Democrats equally at fault?

by Anonymousreply 4810/01/2013

R25 - there may be a reason for asking you to come in to work, only to be sent home. If back pay is later authorized, it may only go to those who showed up. I vaguely recall a situation like that in my past. Still sucks, I know.

by Anonymousreply 4910/01/2013

They are that stupid R46 or they never would have fallen to people like Mitt Romney and John Boehner.

by Anonymousreply 5010/01/2013

I agree with R48, Obama had a good speech.

My prediction is the shutdown ends Friday or Monday. Boehner will simply declare victory (a lie), say that they made their point, that the shutdown saved money (another lie), and then he will submit a clean bill to the entire house. Then it will pass, and the shutdown will have disrupted people's lives for nothing.

by Anonymousreply 5310/01/2013

Tea Party must have big parties... till the next election.

by Anonymousreply 5410/01/2013

R3 you are a stupid whack job. Why not take us back to feudal lords while you're at it.

by Anonymousreply 5510/01/2013

[quote]The view in Europe is this is Republicans being childish brats and holding their breath 'til they get what they want. Is that the case or are the Democrats equally at fault?

The view in Europe, as posted above, is accurate.

by Anonymousreply 5610/01/2013

The tea party loons that are holding our whole country hostage should be charged with treason.

by Anonymousreply 5710/01/2013

they need to go out and shoot themselves.

by Anonymousreply 5810/01/2013

With the House districts rigged as much as they are, I don't even think Republicans are worried that this will hurt them in the next election cycle.

by Anonymousreply 6110/01/2013

[quote]Rather than the House and Senate hashing out their differences between April and September, nobody did very much of anything.

r63 - Boehner refused to name conferees to the House/Senate conference that resolves those differences.

So, yes, the Republicans in fact own this shutdown.

by Anonymousreply 6210/01/2013

[quote]It really is demoralizing to know that neither the President nor Congress (nor the American people for that matter) give a fuck about their fellow citizens. Thanks guys!

r22, are you a freeper? cuz how do you figure obama is to blame for the shutdown? i get blaming the GOP tools in congress & the retards who elected them, but don't understand what obama has to do with this round of hostage taking.

by Anonymousreply 6310/01/2013

Looks like the GOP House is going to try a new tactic. Sending piece-meal proposals to the Senate, to fund various little bits of government, one at a time. We'll see how that goes.

by Anonymousreply 6410/01/2013

Anyone trying to blame Obama, or Democrats, or Liberals, or Progressives for this shut-down is completely ill-informed, or is trying to peddle what they know are lies.

This is SOLELY a faction of the House Republicans causing this. Period.

by Anonymousreply 6510/01/2013

October 1, 2013. Government shut down. ACA is/is not working. Syria still killing its own. Iran is being all weird and the Pope is being reasonable.

Today! On FoxNews! Gretchen Carlson interviewing Nascar driver Danica Patrick on her recent appearance on a cooking show! Hooray!

Look at the shiny monkey!!

by Anonymousreply 6610/01/2013

r68 gets it.

Every House Republican should immediately be arrested and tried for treason and face life in prison/ possible death penalties. Pure scum on the level of 9/11 terrorists, serial killers and rapists. Fuck them all.

by Anonymousreply 6910/01/2013

r73?

Die in a fire.

TIA

by Anonymousreply 7210/01/2013

Wouldn't it be great if this government shutdown somehow forced the cancelation of this weekend's college and professional football games, maybe because of security concerns?

Of gosh, maybe with the government shut down the internet starts running slower and slower and slower . . .

by Anonymousreply 7310/01/2013

Yes, R74. At last count (yesterday) there were 20 House Republicans prepared to sign a clean Continuing Resolution bill to avoid shut-down (or end the shut-down now). There is actually a majority of the House that would vote this way.

This is why Boehner is refusing to allow the bill to come for a vote.

by Anonymousreply 7410/01/2013

R74 must be Mrs. Patsy Ramsey, Formerly of Boulder, Colorado. She's into small factions.

by Anonymousreply 7510/01/2013

R74 - pretty much a faction of House Republicans.

My understanding is the Republicans have gerrymandered themselves into this position.

There are very safe Republican districts - where the real election is the Republican primary. So if you rode into office on the Tea Party bandwagon - and you end up being reasonable once elected you will probably face a Tea Party primary challenge.

There are enough Republicans who would vote in favor of a clean CR to pass it.

But Boehner risks losing his job if he brings legislation which requires Democratic support to pass.

so yeah a faction.

by Anonymousreply 7610/01/2013

Tea Party extremists are not people, they're a vile cancer on this country.

by Anonymousreply 7810/01/2013

Republican control of the house was achieved by gerrymandering. The tea baggers are in districts where they can not be defeated. They have nothing to lose and no one to answer to.

We are fucked, get used to it and if the repugs gain control of the senate you will be shocked by what they will try and do, shocked I say.

by Anonymousreply 7910/01/2013

r83 post your address and find out, asshole.

by Anonymousreply 8110/01/2013

Hey Boehner, what's your real treason for shutting down Congress?

by Anonymousreply 8310/01/2013

Is anybody else tweeting the treasonists?

by Anonymousreply 8410/01/2013

Even with gerrymandering (which is exactly the problem that got us here), the fact is the demographic is changing and soon those districts that are drawn to keep the good ole boys in power will be filled with racial minorities climbing the economic ladder. It can't happen soon enough.

by Anonymousreply 8510/01/2013

R89: sentence fail

by Anonymousreply 8710/01/2013

r83 r85 oh, chortle chortle. Denigrating poor people. You're hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 8810/01/2013

R89 is a fucking moron. So ill-informed, so petty and petulant, so self-absorbed and childishly arrogant.

by Anonymousreply 9010/01/2013

R92, the only "bloated welfare system" we have is the corporate welfare system created and maintained by Republicans & "conservatives"... sending BILLIONS in taxpayer dollars to already-profitable private companies.

by Anonymousreply 9110/01/2013

R.I.P., r89

by Anonymousreply 9210/01/2013

Exactly, r94, we need to end these publicly funded and privatized profits. They have stolen so much taxpayer money its obscene.

by Anonymousreply 9310/01/2013

Worth noting that the high birth rate for Hispanics is now largely a bigoted stereotype. The CDC reported a 39 percent drop in birth rates for Latina teens since 2007. Both immigrant and native-born Latinas had steeper birthrate declines from 2007 to 2010 than other groups, including non-Hispanic whites, blacks and Asians, a drop some demographers and sociologists attribute to changes in the views of many Hispanic women about motherhood.

by Anonymousreply 9410/01/2013

I watched the movie Lincoln with Daniel Day-Lewis last night and I was struck by the fact that the Congress of 1864-65 was struck by the similarities between then and now. Not much has changed in 150 years. Congress was/is contentious, arrogant, partisan and dedicated to pushing its own agenda with little regard for "We the People..."

by Anonymousreply 9510/01/2013

Among the things I wish the media would emphasize, is that we actually don't live in a dictatorship, not in a fascist or communist or other totalitarian government. We have government of the people, by the people, and for the people - that is what the Republicans have shut down. That us their big accomplishment. The government is US. And their screwing with it. Piss on the sore losers in the "something for nothing" and "I've got mine, the heck with you" TeaParty!

by Anonymousreply 9610/01/2013

What do you do when they are irrational and can't be talked down? Let the whole country burn because of a few insane idiots?

by Anonymousreply 9910/01/2013

As a furloughed federal employee, I'm so fucking annoyed right now. Fortunately, I have some savings, but I certainly don't want to deplete them. Now I'll have to apply for unemployment too.

by Anonymousreply 10010/01/2013

What about the federal employees who need to work to live and support their families?

by Anonymousreply 10210/01/2013

R104 you are a moron. There was barely a recovery as it was. This is not only going to crash what little recovery we had, it's going to reverberate across the planet. I've been unemployed for over two years you dumbfuck and the last thing I needed was for something like this to happen. This is hurting real people. Fuck you.

by Anonymousreply 10310/01/2013

.

by Anonymousreply 10410/01/2013

.

by Anonymousreply 10510/01/2013

R105 - I'll throw that right back at you to help justify the military budget.

by Anonymousreply 10710/01/2013

I hope he ruins those bastards. We need to be researching all of their histories. You know behind closed doors they are sick fucks.

by Anonymousreply 10810/01/2013

[quote]Among the things I wish the media would emphasize, is that we actually don't live in a dictatorship, not in a fascist or communist or other totalitarian government.

When was the last time you called up your representative in the House and talked to him/her? Never? You mean that your rep never talks to the people but takes money from Bank of Amerika and Wal Mart but doesn't give you the time of day? What a wonderful representative system!

[quote]We have government of the people, by the people, and for the people - that is what the Republicans have shut down.

We have a government of the corporations, by the banks, for the politicians. The Democrats would do the same if Obama was a Republican.

[quote]That us their big accomplishment. The government is US.

US? When was the last time your Senator did anything for "us"?

[quote]And their(sic) screwing with it. Piss on the sore losers in the "something for nothing" and "I've got mine, the heck with you" TeaParty!

The Tea Party is a reaction to growing government power.

Why don't progressive liberals tell Obama to cut military spending by 75% and stop spying on US citizens and quit bailing out the banks and big corporations?

by Anonymousreply 10910/01/2013

R101 wrote-

[quote]It isn't true that no one gives a shit about government employees. Only people who have had to deal with one feel that way.

Too true. Anyone who deals with government employees PRAYS that the government shutdown in permanent!

by Anonymousreply 11010/01/2013

R102-

[quote]What do you do when they are irrational and can't be talked down? Let the whole country burn because of a few insane idiots?

So, if the US Government shuts down for a month, or six months, or 5 years and the country doesn't burn (and actually gets better) then will you eat your words?

If the Federal Reserve and Washington DC disappeared forever we would all be better off.

by Anonymousreply 11110/01/2013

R103-

Maybe getting a real job would help? Sucking money off people who actually produce things isn't a job- it's a Mafia contract.

by Anonymousreply 11210/01/2013

R116 you better get ready there's a drone and a black unmarked helicopter headed your way

by Anonymousreply 11410/01/2013

Murderers? Really, R116? Since you support the shutdown, and the shutdown is preventing children with cancer from getting drugs at the NIH, one could reasonably call you a murderer.

by Anonymousreply 11510/01/2013

Lets kick them out and be done with it. We already have them in discrete districts because of the gerrymandering. Just tell them their own their own. They got their wish, no federal government or services for them. Ta ta, bitches!

by Anonymousreply 11610/01/2013

The Federal Reserve played an important role in stableizing the economy during the meltdown, and since. We'd have 25% unemployment were it not for the Fed.

I can't understand why anybody would get all worked-up about the Fed. Yeah, they're bankers, but they are working for us!

by Anonymousreply 11710/01/2013

*they're

by Anonymousreply 11810/01/2013

R119- I agree 220,000,000,000,000%!!!

Since I assume most of the posters here were MIS-edumacateded in government schools, that number is called $220 Trillion, which is too big for you to comprehend. It's about 40-50 times the entire of the US GDP. It's how much the US Government owes according to GAAP.

It's like each person owes a billion dollars in credit card debt, and that the government is the debt collector.

So, if we allowed the "blue" counties and the "red" counties to secede, and allowed each county to set up their own government guided SOLELY by their interpretation of the US Constitution (and allowing any county that wished to entreaty and ally with any other county) then "socialists" and "tea parties" and "progressives" and WTFevers would be able to exert LOCAL control and would be able to control their political system at a very local level.

Anyone who wanted government health care, or legal drugs, or no abortion, or multiple wives/husbands, or only gay citizens- they would be able to vote and structure their county thusly.

by Anonymousreply 12010/01/2013

R120-

Please read Rothbard and his point by point dissection and deconstruction of the myth that the Federal Reserve "helped" the economy 1929-40s, and even better his critique and demolition of the 1920 "panic".

by Anonymousreply 12110/01/2013

OMG, troll-dar, R124. He is so invested in his Randian fantasy world.

by Anonymousreply 12210/01/2013

I'm trying to be nice...but "stableizing"?

Worse than "judgement"- and I would give you a "UK U" pass if I thought you were a Brit.

by Anonymousreply 12310/01/2013

R109-

If Obama said "I am dissolving the USA, and ALL powers are devolved back to the 50 states" would you agree?

by Anonymousreply 12410/01/2013

Yeah, the meltdown I was referring to is the one we're living through, not the one my grandparents lived through.

As for "stableizing", all I can say is, it is late here, good night!

by Anonymousreply 12510/01/2013

R117-

The fact- yes, think long and hard about that FACT- that you might be right (since the newest revelations show that the USA has been using drones to spy on and kill people INSIDE THE USA) and that I might be under surveillance due to my outspoken disdain for Clinton, Bush and Obama--- should SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU!

Today we have a socialist/fascist prez, but in 2014 we might have a corporatist/fascist prez (with FAR better tech) who decides to spy on anyone who speaks out about their evil actions- murdering brown people overseas, putting brown people in jail at home, spying on everyone, destroying their political enemies using their NSA tech- and pussy bitches like you will be too timid to oppose it.

Fuck the NSA. Fuck Obama. Fuck GWBush- they are ALL evil!

by Anonymousreply 12610/01/2013

LOVE in the DC area!!

by Anonymousreply 12710/01/2013

Ignore R127 and all the other posts he's made. He's our resident Libertarian Troll, who consistently proves that Libertarians are either stupid or cruel, usually both.

by Anonymousreply 12810/01/2013

R123, the national Debt Clock says our debt is $16.7 trillion, or about $52,800 per person.

As for devolving to local control for all matters, I don't understand why that idea is preferable to our current system.

by Anonymousreply 12910/01/2013

…and the crazies come out of the woodwork.

by Anonymousreply 13110/01/2013

R132-

Yes, and the government says Social Security money is in a lockbox.

Please look at the facts before exposing your ignorance.

Ceteris Paribus that "lockbox" is filled each month with "IOUs" from the government that will be redeemed over the next few years. The +200T number has been arrived at by the OMB and outside observers.

You can't spend TRILLIONS more than you steal from your "taxplayers" (intentional typo) each year before things go pear shaped.

I feel sorry for your ignorance. You will be among those that REALLY suffer.

Look up CONFIRMATION BIAS and maybe you will "get it"!

by Anonymousreply 13210/01/2013

People of America: do NOT let the "government shutdown" distract you from what's really going on!!!!! Keep your eyes on the Keystone Oil Pipeline. Keep your eyes on the fact that you have at least 79 options for healthcare (maybe they're not perfect but better mediocrity than nothing at all). Don't let those ReTHUGlicans throw the wool over your eyes while they line their pockets by privatizing every thing from healthcare to education. WE are the government! How can they shut us down? It's all a bunch of lies and these rethuglican bullies continue to distract us with these hoaxes so they can keep robbing us.

by Anonymousreply 13410/02/2013

A brief reminder that R135 is our own resident Libertarian Idiot Troll. Who does appear to be going off his meds, now that you mention it. At any rate, don't expect any coherence his postings.

by Anonymousreply 13510/02/2013

poor thing, our libertarian troll, r3...r135. she's got some mental issues.

by Anonymousreply 13610/02/2013

often our "libertarian' trolls are not even American.

by Anonymousreply 13710/02/2013

Meanwhile in Canada:

Yesterday morning,before work I reported in to the Willow Pavilion Eye Clinic (part of Vancouver General Hospital) for my regular six month Field Vision test.

Since there is glaucoma in my father's family and my optometrist discovered elevated pressure in my eyes my family doctor referred me to a specialist and I was put on preventative watch recording any changes that may suggest onset of glaucoma.

After the Field Vision test (20 minutes) I took my file down one floor to my eye doctor who checked the pressure in my eyes and discussed the retinal photographs taken in July (also on a six month ongoing appointment).

All was well and I confirmed my next appointment for February 2014.

Since my Care card # is already in the system no money changed hands nor was cost discussed.

In my province the monthly charge is $64 for 'singles'. My employer pays $32 per month,leaving me paying $32 a month for my Health Insurance.

I go for regular check ups with the doctor of my choice and again my Care Card # is in the system and no mention is ever made of payment.

last year my 60 year old brother in Toronto had severe abdominal pains,went to the ER and was immediately admitted with a burst appendix,was operated on that evening.

During his stay after having two MRIs a spot was discovered on his right kidney. The spot turned out to be cancerous and the kidney came out the next month. As his surgeon told him,"there's good and bad news".

The bad news was the diagnosis was cancer,the good news was if his appendix hadn't burst there would have been no symptoms for years until it was too late.

He has just been declared cancer-free last month.

Cost to my brother : his Ontario Health Insurance ID.

Some of you may be interested in my province's health site:everything from ER wait times to restaurant closures are there... the trolls of course can ignore and continue to campaign against their own best interests.

Mind boggling to see a country as wealthy as the USA tear away at itself over who "deserves' to go hungry and who is worthy of health care .

Good luck!

by Anonymousreply 13810/02/2013

As this thread is about predictions:

* We are starting to see impatience, fissures, a few defections, and a slow rise of internal finger-pointing and Tea-Party-blaming on the GOP side.

* Polling data shows clearly that while the public is generally disgusted by the whole unnecessary fiasco, the GOP is taking much more blame/damage for it than the Dems.

* Obama and Reid are rock solid in their convictions (this is unusual) and are taking a "we shall not be moved" position.

Verdict: GOP will fold on this. Probably soon. Within 1-2 weeks if not days.

by Anonymousreply 13910/02/2013

They are all meeting at the White House tonight at 5:30 est, so I predict by 8 pm tonight.... DEAL.

by Anonymousreply 14010/02/2013

Hello?

by Anonymousreply 14110/02/2013

@R118 wrote-

[quote]Murderers? Really, [R116]? Since you support the shutdown, and the shutdown is preventing children with cancer from getting drugs at the NIH, one could reasonably call you a murderer.

What about the cancer drugs that the FDA refuses to allow people in the US to use due to their Byzantine regulations? Why are people going to Costa Rica and Singapore for cancer treatments banned by the FDA?

by Anonymousreply 14210/02/2013

[quote]The Federal Reserve played an important role in stableizing(sic) the economy during the meltdown, and since. We'd have 25% unemployment were it not for the Fed.

No, it didn't, and your poor grammar shows you have no clue about what you are talking about. If the big banks had been liquidated, and people that invested in unlimited government debt had been destroyed, the bottom 99.9% would be better off. You think printing trillions of worthless dollars and giving them to Wall Street was a good idea? Are you a banker?

[quote]I can't understand why anybody would get all worked-up about the Fed. Yeah, they're bankers, but they are working for us!

No, they aren't. They are working for themselves, and for the government.

Your ignorance and gullibility is why they can keep fucking the bottom 99.9%.

Grow up. Learn some economics.

by Anonymousreply 14410/02/2013

hooray!!!! since the government is shut down we no longer have to pay income taxes!!!!! let's celebrate!!!

by Anonymousreply 14510/02/2013

@R71:

[quote]Participants in the poll were also asked whether they think both parties of Congress were acting like "responsible adults" or "spoiled children" over their respective positions. Respondents fingered Republicans as the most "spoiled" — 69% said Congressional Republicans were acting like children, compared with just 25% who say they're acting like adults.

Read more:

by Anonymousreply 14710/02/2013

And more @R71

[quote] Gallup Poll. June 20-24, 2013. N=2,048 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3. :"Do you approve or disapprove of the way the Republicans in Congress are handling their job?" Approve: 26% - Disapprove: 69%

by Anonymousreply 14810/02/2013

R148 - there is something wrong with you that cannot be fixed here. And I'm not talking about your language or reasoning skills, though they need work. Take your posts to your therapist, and yes, if you don't have one, you really, really need one (and a pharmacologist), and ask him if he thinks you ought to stay off these boards.

by Anonymousreply 14910/03/2013

I mean R149, not R148. And R149, that was a typo, not crazy talk, there's a difference. Your therapist should be able to explain it to you.

by Anonymousreply 15010/03/2013

thank you President Obama and Democrats for helping my two nephews to finally get medical coverage. This has taken a toll on my family as being over 26 they were unable to afford it and my younger nephew was unable to get because of a genetic condition, type 1 diabetes, which he has had since very early childhood.

by Anonymousreply 15110/03/2013

this is a libertarian's wet dream.

and an intelligent person's nightmare.

i hope it ends soon.

by Anonymousreply 15210/03/2013

.

by Anonymousreply 15410/03/2013

Well, I'm not going to let this get me down. Tomorrow morning I'm going out and making some creme brulee for the homeless.

by Anonymousreply 15810/04/2013

can't we ban r160 aka the libertarian troll? she is so tedious.

by Anonymousreply 15910/04/2013

What, exactly, is changing about health care, R159? The way we pay for healthcare is not the care itself. That more people are going to have access to care is not the care itself. And don't try to tell me that doctors are leaving the profession in droves; they're not. If anything, the demand for doctors, nurses, physician assistants, et. al., will greatly increase, resulting in more, better-paying jobs right here at home. And don't free market lovers always say that competition drives costs down and efficiency up?

by Anonymousreply 16010/04/2013

Yeah, we are BUYING health insurance. How can that fuck up the health care industry? You are a major loon.

by Anonymousreply 16110/04/2013

And here in Taiwan, where we've had national health care for years, I just came back from getting two of my regular checkups this morning. Decided last weekend that today would be a good day, so I made the appointments then. I could have had next-day appointments if I had wanted, which is always the case.

I was number 3 on this morning's roster for the breast exam. First patient was already in with the doctor when I arrived. I waited about 20 minutes for my turn. The doctor explained exactly what I was seeing as he did the ultrasound, which was actually pretty cool. Then he sent me down for the mammogram, no wait down there, just went right in. A simple phone call next week and I'll know the results. Was out an hour after I had arrived. Cost: US $11.00.

Heart exam: Didn't have to wait because we can track the doctor's progress with his/her patients online, so I just went back to the hospital when my turn was near. Told doctor I'm preparing to start a rigorous exercise program next week, want a heart checkup to get the all-clear (I'm in my 50's and out of shape). He scheduled me in for bloodtesting--cholesterol/HDL/LDL/triglycerides--and a treadmill test on Monday morning. Total cost, including the testing: US $8.00

Tell the doomsayers they're in for a rude surprise. Done right, National Health is faster, cheaper, and more efficient than privatized health care.

by Anonymousreply 16210/04/2013

And BTW, our system here includes a monthly co-pay with our employer of about 40 USD along with $10-$20 fee per visit depending on what sort of testing/checkups you need. Well within nearly anyone's budget.

You can purchase private insurance to help you cover things like lost work days due to surgery or the extra cost of a private room if you want one. My insurance policy is about $500 USD a year.

Insurance prices here are low due to NHC. If they were too high, no one would purchase.

by Anonymousreply 16310/04/2013

R167, put the pipe down. It is time to go to bed.

by Anonymousreply 16610/05/2013

R170---anyone who matters lives in NYC.

by Anonymousreply 16910/05/2013

R169, when you form an argument we will be here to argue with you.

by Anonymousreply 17010/05/2013

Here are 3 interesting threads about the shut-down that should be on DL.

1. Renee Ellmers - The r congresswoman from NC that refused to donate her pay from the shut-down saying,"I need my paycheck."

2. Neugebauer The TX Congressman who said on the radio one day that he was all for the shut-down and the the next day was caught on film shaming a federal memorial guardsman for closing the memorial.

3. Rand Paul was caught yesterday on a hot mic discussing GOP strategy w/ Mitch McConnel - a MUST SEE

4. This really strange obsession of CNN over the last 24 hrs to just completely go after Senator Reid. They put all dogs on him and have just been not-stop all day and night. It's been on every show, taking his words way out of contexts....

other media is starting to notice. It's like a lover scorned over their.

Link to first story here others to follow.

by Anonymousreply 17210/05/2013

GOp hot mic from Wednesday

by Anonymousreply 17310/05/2013

Congressman Busted

by Anonymousreply 17510/05/2013

Sen. Reid Take-Down by CNN.. actually its been going on for more like 3 days now...

by Anonymousreply 17610/05/2013

R177, only trolls Trolldar, ASSHOLE!

by Anonymousreply 17710/05/2013

Oh Yeah, and also, it looks like Michelle Bachman is in bigger trouble that previously thought. Lets hope so. McCarthy in drag, that one.

by Anonymousreply 17810/05/2013

Reposting to thwart the freeper trolls:

And here in Taiwan, where we've had national health care for years, I just came back from getting two of my regular checkups this morning. Decided last weekend that today would be a good day, so I made the appointments then. I could have had next-day appointments if I had wanted, which is always the case.

I was number 3 on this morning's roster for the breast exam. First patient was already in with the doctor when I arrived. I waited about 20 minutes for my turn. The doctor explained exactly what I was seeing as he did the ultrasound, which was actually pretty cool. Then he sent me down for the mammogram, no wait down there, just went right in. A simple phone call next week and I'll know the results. Was out an hour after I had arrived. Cost: US $11.00.

Heart exam: Didn't have to wait because we can track the doctor's progress with his/her patients online, so I just went back to the hospital when my turn was near. Told doctor I'm preparing to start a rigorous exercise program next week, want a heart checkup to get the all-clear (I'm in my 50's and out of shape). He scheduled me in for bloodtesting--cholesterol/HDL/LDL/triglycerides--and a treadmill test on Monday morning. Total cost, including the testing: US $8.00

Tell the doomsayers they're in for a rude surprise. Done right, National Health is faster, cheaper, and more efficient than privatized health care.

by Anonymousreply 18010/05/2013

Done right is the key phrase. We all know quality is not our government's forte.

by Anonymousreply 18110/05/2013

medicaid and medicare have been operating quite efficiently for decades, r184. but again, you're just trolling.

by Anonymousreply 18210/05/2013

If Taiwan's government can manage to do this, the US can, too. What they did over here was to look into a number of NHC's in countries around the world to see what seemed to be working well.

by Anonymousreply 18310/05/2013

Incredibly, R185 STILL doesn't understand how Obamacare will work. It is PRIVATE health insurance. What don't you understand about that, fucktard?

by Anonymousreply 18510/06/2013

no.

by Anonymousreply 18610/06/2013

[quote]They catch over a BILLION DOLLARS a year in fraud, and admit that it is only a fraction of the actual fraudulent claim.

And, why is that? Could it be because people see big business doing the same thing and don't see why they can't play be the same rules? Again, most medicare fraud isn't "ghetto blacks", it is straight, white, affluent, Caucasian men working the system. And, then there are the groups that are "hands off" such as Hassidic Jews and Russians.

Unfortunately this is a problem nearly as old as the USA. From P.T: Barnum, to Texas Guinan, to Donald Trump, Americans worship those who don't play by the rules, and consider anyone who does a sucker.

by Anonymousreply 18710/06/2013

Wow. trolls trolls trolls.

You are an ignorant moron, r191.

by Anonymousreply 18910/06/2013

R190 Don't forger us!

by Anonymousreply 19010/06/2013

Ok, R191, I'll bite... What has the Federal Government shut down that it doesn't have the authority to close (besides your mind)? And provide a link, please. Otherwise, we'll all know you're a liar. Oh wait...

by Anonymousreply 19110/06/2013

Medicaid is run by the states, not the Feds.

by Anonymousreply 19310/06/2013

[quote]Please pull your head out of your ass. The inefficient, corrupt, incompetent and bloated nature of MediCare/Aid is legendary.

I think that's precisely the word for it: "legendary," as in a "legend," as in "total fiction," as in "a lie." Moron, out here in the real world, Medicare is cheaper than the private alternatives, controls costs better than the private alternatives, and is more popular than the private alternatives.

[quote]They catch over a BILLION DOLLARS a year in fraud, and admit that it is only a fraction of the actual fraudulent claims.

Moron, fraud is usually assessed at roughly 10% of the Medicare budget. Care to guess what the fraud rate is for private insurance? Free clue: it's about the same.

[quote]Are you really that naive? That foolish? That fucktarded?!?

No, but you sure seem to be.

[quote]Please educate yourself before posting such ignorant and asinine comments.

LOL.... Oh, the irony....

by Anonymousreply 19410/06/2013

I think that the Tea Party and its minions want to overthrow the government, and this is the first step.

by Anonymousreply 19510/06/2013

[quote]I do love the fact that you don't have anything intelligent to say, no argument, no rebuttal, just bitchiness.

Oh, the irony.... Trolldar R171 and watch the thread light up with "nothing intelligent to say, no argument, no rebuttal, just bitchiness."

[quote]that number is called $220 Trillion, which is too big for you to comprehend. It's about 40-50 times the entire of the US GDP. It's how much the US Government owes according to GAAP.

Sorry, but this is total bullshit. Using generally accepted accounting principles, one arrives at a figure that isn't even remotely close to that, which is why you can't back up the usual bullshit you're spewing.

[quote]The +200T number has been arrived at by the OMB and outside observers.

No it hasn't, which is why you can't provide a citation. You're simply lying now.

by Anonymousreply 19610/06/2013

Oh, and moron, that $220 TRILLION figure you're throwing around comes from Laurence Kotlikoff, whose work has been debunked over and over again. And he arrives at that figure not by using GAAP but by ignoring them. Get this: if Social Security is tweaked to make it fully solvent into perpetuity (e.g., by removing the salary cap, etc.), Kotlikoff's methodology would still be reporting trillions of dollars in liability!

by Anonymousreply 19710/06/2013

R202 has awful lot of bile for a nonentity.

by Anonymousreply 20010/07/2013

r202 will stroke out soon, r203, so not to worry.

by Anonymousreply 20110/07/2013

What is so fucking hard to understand that the government has the authority to levy a tax, and just as much authority to offer a tax break for engaging in behaviors that we as a society decide to reward? Own a home, have children, get rich... ring any bells? Add "buy health insurance" to that bag. There, now we can put to rest the idea that the government can force you to do anything. It can merely say do it, and if you don't, you don't get the credit for doing it.

by Anonymousreply 20210/07/2013

R202, if the Republicans (and the Democrats too) would let America have a proper national health system with free medical care like the rest of the Western world, there wouldn't have been a need for the private insurance system in the first place!

by Anonymousreply 20310/07/2013

Did you have a point to make, R207? Moron, the other industrialized nations all pay far less, get far more, have better outcomes, control costs better, and have more popular alternatives than in the U.S.

And here in the U.S., Medicare is cheaper than the private alternatives, controls costs better than the private alternatives, has outcomes at least as good as the private alternatives, and is more popular than the private alternatives.

by Anonymousreply 20510/13/2013

[quote]Yes, that is the nature of a system that has no checks, no system (like a private accountant that is responsible AND accountable for fraud) for stopping fraud. The government only cares about fraud when it gets caught.

Moron, you were replying to yourself again! And ignoring the fact that fraud in the private insurance sector is roughly the same as it is in the public sector. Now what was your point again?

by Anonymousreply 20610/13/2013

USA, you in danger, gurl.

by Anonymousreply 20710/13/2013

Meet the 31-year-old Standford grad who planned the government shutdown and is still certain conservatives can win the battle over ObamaCare

by Anonymousreply 20810/14/2013

R211-

He's hot!

by Anonymousreply 20910/14/2013

R201/202/207 et al - Libertarian Idiot Troll.

The "fascist" namecalling gives it away.

And as always, dumber than a box of hammers.

by Anonymousreply 21010/14/2013

R213, please define FASCIST.

Dictionaries, text books, and "Normal People" define FASCISM as a system in which the government and private sector work together at most - if not all- levels, creating a system in which all large companies (and most med-small companies) must "bribe" the government to survive, and in order to grow (like IBM, Northrop-Grumman, Haliburton) they must have powerful "insiders" on the payroll.

Name one, just ONE, large company that isn't intimately tied to the government of the US or some other national government.

by Anonymousreply 21110/14/2013

Oh, and mentioning Facebook (look at the CIA) or Microsoft ( which has never hidden their USGov ties) will show your ignorance.

by Anonymousreply 21210/14/2013

[quote]Hostile to liberal democracy, socialism, and communism, fascist movements shared certain common features, including the veneration of the state, a devotion to a strong leader, and an emphasis on ultranationalism and militarism. Fascism views political violence, war, and imperialism as a means to achieve national rejuvenation[5][8][9][10] and asserts that stronger nations have the right to expand their territory by displacing weaker nations.[11]

[quote]Fascist ideology consistently invokes the primacy of the state. Leaders such as Benito Mussolini in Italy and Adolf Hitler in Germany embodied the state and claimed indisputable power.

So, um, that's how "normal" people define fascism. Nothing about government/corporate collusion. Your definition of "fascism" most definitely falls into libertarian fruitcake territory.

So until we can agree on what words really mean, and what is reality and what is not, arguing with morons like you is beyond pointless.

by Anonymousreply 21310/14/2013

R216-

You trot out that ridiculous and incredibly juvenile definition every time.

Intelligent and respected historians have "unpacked" Fascism from Nazism and Communism, and the two main qualities are

A) collusion between the government and big business

and

B) lack of (free) dissenting voices

and

C) widespread spying and secret police

Please leave the 1950s and join us in the 21stC.

Please tell me how the USA is NOT a fascist state?

by Anonymousreply 21410/14/2013

[quote]You trot out that ridiculous and incredibly juvenile definition every time.

Well, see, out here in the real world, that happens to be the definition of "fascism." And most of us like using regularly accepted definitions as compared to people like you who basically make shit up.

[quote]Intelligent and respected historians have "unpacked" Fascism from Nazism and Communism, and the two main qualities are

And yet you are wholly unable to actually cite those "intelligent and respected historians" or quote them in the context of their writings. So, basically, you are once again making shit up. Not exactly a surprise. Just as it's not exactly a surprise that you have no answer for R208 and R209.

[quote]A) collusion between the government and big business

Actually, no "intelligent and respected historian" would ever say something as simplistic and stupid as that or as idiotic as the rest of the drivel you spewed. Feel free to rejoin us here in the real world whenever you get tired of your fantasies.

by Anonymousreply 21510/15/2013

[quote]Please tell me how the USA is NOT a fascist state?

Says the Libertarian moron posting from where? Myanmar?

by Anonymousreply 21610/15/2013

“Fascism” has become a term of general derision and rebuke. It is tossed casually in the direction of anything a critic happens to dislike. Even libertarians—themselves the epitome of anti-fascism—have been called fascists from time to time.

But fascism is a real concept, not a stick with which to beat opponents arbitrarily. The abuse of this important word undermines its true value as a term referring to a very real phenomenon, and one whose spirit lives on even now.

I describe the features of that system in chapters two and four, but for now we may say this. The state, for the fascist, is the instrument by which the people’s common destiny is realized, and in which the potential for greatness is to be found. Individual rights, and the individual himself, are strictly subordinate to the state’s great and glorious goals for the nation. In foreign affairs, the fascist attitude is reflected in a belligerent chauvinism, a contempt for other peoples, and a society-wide reverence for soldiers and the martial virtues. The fascist takes his inspiration from the experience of war. During World War I, people from all over Italy, notwithstanding differences of region or dialect, found themselves joined together in a common enterprise. The war demonstrated what could be accomplished when people discarded their lesser allegiances and devoted themselves to the cause of the nation, which always means the national government.

Socialists tried to pretend that fascism was simply the most developed, if also decrepit, stage of capitalism. But the fascists made their opposition to capitalism perfectly clear. For the dueling systems of capitalism and communism they proposed to substitute a “third way.” The means of production would remain nominally in private hands, but the state would play a substantial role in production and allocation decisions. The classical liberal devotion to individual rights would of course be spurned in favor of collectivism, but in place of the communists’ appeal to the worldwide proletarian struggle, the fascists’ collectivism would be directed toward the nation.

Is it really so unreasonable to note that these principles have not entirely died out? In the US, the public obediently pays homage to the military, readily absorbing the most preposterous stories about “keeping us safe” and protecting our freedom. The free market economy is spoken of with contempt, and enlightened state control and public-private partnerships of various kinds are proposed instead. “Public service”—which always means service to the state—is urged upon the young. John T. Flynn noted that one of the characteristics of fascism was the substantial role the military sector played in the economy. He could scarcely have imagined the case of the US government in the twenty-first century, when its military expenditures are nearly as great as those of the rest of the world put together.

by Anonymousreply 21712/21/2013

Test

by Anonymousreply 21812/21/2013

“Fascism” has become a term of general derision and rebuke. It is tossed casually in the direction of anything a critic happens to dislike. Even libertarians—themselves the epitome of anti-fascism—have been called fascists from time to time.

But fascism is a real concept, not a stick with which to beat opponents arbitrarily. The abuse of this important word undermines its true value as a term referring to a very real phenomenon, and one whose spirit lives on even now.

I describe the features of that system in chapters two and four, but for now we may say this. The state, for the fascist, is the instrument by which the people’s common destiny is realized, and in which the potential for greatness is to be found. Individual rights, and the individual himself, are strictly subordinate to the state’s great and glorious goals for the nation. In foreign affairs, the fascist attitude is reflected in a belligerent chauvinism, a contempt for other peoples, and a society-wide reverence for soldiers and the martial virtues. The fascist takes his inspiration from the experience of war. During World War I, people from all over Italy, notwithstanding differences of region or dialect, found themselves joined together in a common enterprise. The war demonstrated what could be accomplished when people discarded their lesser allegiances and devoted themselves to the cause of the nation, which always means the national government.

Socialists tried to pretend that fascism was simply the most developed, if also decrepit, stage of capitalism. But the fascists made their opposition to capitalism perfectly clear. For the dueling systems of capitalism and communism they proposed to substitute a “third way.” The means of production would remain nominally in private hands, but the state would play a substantial role in production and allocation decisions. The classical liberal devotion to individual rights would of course be spurned in favor of collectivism, but in place of the communists’ appeal to the worldwide proletarian struggle, the fascists’ collectivism would be directed toward the nation.

Is it really so unreasonable to note that these principles have not entirely died out? In the US, the public obediently pays homage to the military, readily absorbing the most preposterous stories about “keeping us safe” and protecting our freedom. The free market economy is spoken of with contempt, and enlightened state control and public-private partnerships of various kinds are proposed instead. “Public service”—which always means service to the state—is urged upon the young. John T. Flynn noted that one of the characteristics of fascism was the substantial role the military sector played in the economy. He could scarcely have imagined the case of the US government in the twenty-first century, when its military expenditures are nearly as great as those of the rest of the world put together.

by Anonymousreply 21912/21/2013

The second part of this book honors those people whose lives and careers represent the very opposite of the fascist state. These are people who devoted themselves not to propaganda and plunder, but to truth and social harmony. These names—among them Ludwig von Mises, Henry Hazlitt, Murray Rothbard, Ron Paul—will be familiar to many readers of this book.

Each of these men worked against the grain. Hazlitt enjoyed considerable prominence, to be sure, writing for the New York Times (if you can believe it), and his book Economics in One Lesson has sold in the millions. But when he wrote The Failure of the “New Economics,” a systematic refutation of John Maynard Keynes’s General Theory, he was nearly alone. Keynes had swept the boards, and the economics profession was in no mood to consider root-and-branch critiques.

And when we call to mind Murray Rothbard, Ron Paul, and Ludwig von Mises, we see men who likewise stuck to unpopular positions even though doing so meant far less prestige, fame, and influence than they deserved. The wonderful and unexpected result of their labors, however, is that the work of all of them is experiencing a renaissance among intelligent people. Murray’s work is read and studied far more widely today than it was during his lifetime—precisely because so many people today are seeking out principled men who spoke the plain truth, whatever the consequences for themselves.

Mises collected no salary from New York University, where he spent his academic career in the United States. His was an unpaid position. He survived because a group of businessmen who appreciated the significance of his work paid him a salary. His colleagues, meanwhile, scarcely gave him the time of day—what use had they for a reactionary throwback to the nineteenth century?

Today, however, nobody remembers any member of the economics faculty of NYU from 1957. The undistinguished academics who shunned Mises have long since been forgotten, while the work of Mises himself is being studied more widely than ever. Mises has had the last laugh.

There is a parallel here with Ron Paul. Ron spent most of his public life in obscurity. The Republican Party treated him like an alien. The media usually did not understand him, and when they did, they found him too dangerous to expose to the public. He spoke to modest crowds, saying exactly the same things he says today.

No one is going to remember the people Ron opposed in his presidential runs of 2008 and 2012. No one’s life was changed by Tommy Thompson, Duncan Hunter, Tim Pawlenty, Rick Santorum, Michele Bachmann, or any of the others. As Tom Woods points out, no one ever said, “My life was changed forever when I encountered the philosophy of Mitt Romney.”

But Ron, the one the media and the political class treated with contempt, will not be forgotten. His books will be educating people for many years, long after we are gone. His courageous example will inspire as long as people respect truth-telling amid an avalanche of lies, and at considerable personal expense.

by Anonymousreply 22012/21/2013

The parallel between these two men is not exact: Ron lived to see his own vindication, while Mises did not. Mises could scarcely have imagined the rising generation of bright scholars working in the Austrian tradition who would appear in the early twenty-first century. Ron watched as millions of people, most of them young, defied the finger-wagging of the anti-Ron establishment to cheer him, learn from him, and advance his message.

And this is one of the most encouraging aspects of the Ron Paul phenomenon: Ron’s success is proof that the establishment media is losing the control it once exercised in American society. In the old days, three television networks and a handful of newspapers laid out the limits of what was permissible to discuss and believe. The corporate state, and its wars and bailouts, were portrayed the way the regime wanted. Today, the official purveyors of information are struggling to stay afloat. The New York Times and the Washington Post are seeing their revenues plummet. The network news, meanwhile, has been surpassed by the internet as a source of information for the public.

This is no time for pessimism, despite the great many problems we continue to face. Imagine if, in the midst of the Nixonian stagflation forty years ago, we had been told that within our lifetimes the following things would happen: (1) the Soviet Union would collapse, and with it the case for the planned economy; (2) the official opinion molders’ monopoly would be decisively smashed; (3) interest in the Austrian School of economics would explode among American students; and (4) despite a media blackout, Ron Paul and his libertarian ideas would become a nationwide and even worldwide sensation that astonished the most seasoned veterans. We would have dismissed this as a fantasy.

That fantasy is today’s reality, so why all the pessimism? Not to mention that we have the fiscal implosion of the US government to look forward to. That can only be a boon to the cause of liberty.

These are perilous times—for the state. Its hold over the public mind is slipping away. Its Keynesian tools aren’t working to produce economic growth. The promises of the welfare state are certain to be broken. Public confidence in the state will continue to erode.

Again, this is no time for gloom. Perilous times for the state ought to be exciting times for friends of liberty. Our foe is the corporate state, described in detail in Part I of this book. Our strategy for victory is laid out by the great men chronicled in Part II.

The great struggle of liberty against power, which has been going on since time began, has reached a watershed moment. Let us not be mere spectators. With our pens, with our voices, with our contributions to our great cause, let us give history a push in the direction of freedom.

From Fascism versus Capitalism. Reprinted with permission.

by Anonymousreply 22112/21/2013

Dear Libertarian Idiot Troll: if you're going to bulk spam us with Lew Rockwell, you could at least quote the fucking source.

by Anonymousreply 22212/21/2013

Link to buy book.

by Anonymousreply 22312/21/2013

Can I pay for the book with gold coins?

by Anonymousreply 22412/21/2013

R227-

I'll ship the book for .05g of gold, and pay shipping in fiat.

by Anonymousreply 22512/21/2013

Really, R227-

The current movement in PHYSICAL gold shows a transfer from weak hands (people using ETF) to strong hands (India, China, people like me) and I will gladly send you a copy.

I knew I was right when I saw JPMorgan buying tons of gold this week---they know the selling is for tax purposes, and that 2014 will be a big year for PMs.

by Anonymousreply 22612/21/2013

Too long, didn't read. Long and boring, and stupid, too.

by Anonymousreply 22712/22/2013

[quote]and the government is shut down...now what? make you predictions here...

The world would be better if the USGOV vanished.

by Anonymousreply 22812/27/2013
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