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Obamacare or Food Stamps - Which social program would you cut?

If there was a referendum and you were asked which social program should be cut, which one would you choose?

Obamacare or Food Stamps?

Choose one only and discuss.

by Anonymousreply 6409/30/2013

Neither. Why cut either? Both are underfunded.

ObamaCare should have been universal healthcare. Sigh.

by Anonymousreply 109/29/2013

Neither freeper bitch, now go away.

by Anonymousreply 209/29/2013

How about cutting subsidies to OIL companies? Corporater welfare!

by Anonymousreply 309/29/2013

Oh, and that corporate jet tax credit. Let's cut that.

by Anonymousreply 409/29/2013

R1 is right.

Die after a long, painful illness that leaves you unable to work or afford to eat, OP.

by Anonymousreply 509/29/2013

In Canada we don't have a food stamp program, but Universal healthcare.

That is why the OP asked.

by Anonymousreply 609/29/2013

Most of the food assistance in the US is only for the elderly, disabled, and children whose parents can't feed them.

How does Canada take care of that then, OP?

by Anonymousreply 709/29/2013

R7 they don't.

Universal Healthcare is a substitute.

by Anonymousreply 809/29/2013

OP again

This is why I asked. Though we have Universal Healthcare, child poverty and the hungry are at an all time high in Canada.

UN food envoy Olivier De Schutter says Canada starves many of its citizens

Olivier De Schutter, the United Nations’ Special Rapporteur on the right to food, talk about his report on Canada.

De Schutter spent 10 days travelling from Montreal to Edmonton last May, visiting farmers, first nations bands, government and activist offices as well as food banks, including The Stop on Davenport Rd. just west of Caledonia Park Rd., where Norman told him about the cucumber from heaven.

On Monday, he delivered his report to the United Nations Council on Human Rights in Geneva. He was broadcast live into The Stop’s dining hall on a movie screen.

A taste of his message about Canada to the UN: One in 10 families, with at least one kid under 6, are “food insecure,” meaning they don’t know if they will eat tomorrow. Welfare rates for a single person are less than the average rent for a single apartment in Ontario, leaving no money for food. The minimum wage in Canada is not a “living wage,” meaning you cannot live and eat while earning $10 an hour, without of course, turning to charity — a food bank and free meal programs, which are booming across this country.

Around one quarter of the people who participate in The Stop’s free food programs have jobs.

“Although political and civil rights are well protected, Canada is behind in regard to economic and social rights,” De Schutter said. His report will go to the United Nations Human Rights Council in April.

Canada, a top OECD country that sends food aid overseas, starves many of its own people. Canada, the defender of human rights abroad, denies the human right to food of many of its own citizens!

When De Schutter first delivered his report to the Canadian government last year, our government ministers attacked him and his report as a “discredit to the United Nations.” Immigration Minister Jason Kenney called his report a waste of money, better used to help starving people in poor countries.

But that’s precisely the point. In rich countries like Canada, people should wish for miracles from heaven

by Anonymousreply 909/29/2013

I am not surprised OP is Canadian, but I AM sick of non-Americans weighing in on Obamacare as if they are American.

by Anonymousreply 1009/29/2013

Neither. I'd double both and slash the military budget.

by Anonymousreply 1109/29/2013

Sorry OP, R9 was TL;DR

Are you saying that in Canada the idea is let poor kids starve, but when they get sick from it then they get healthcare? That can't be right.

by Anonymousreply 1209/29/2013


by Anonymousreply 1309/29/2013

Neither. Not playin'.

by Anonymousreply 1409/29/2013

R12 Every Canadian is entitled to healthcare whenever and wherever they are in Canada.

But income inequality is growing rapidly.

Many times it is a choice between housing and food. Housing wins everytime, which means more people are starving in Canada,

by Anonymousreply 1509/29/2013

Link to a reliable source for stats on that OP.

by Anonymousreply 1609/29/2013

Ok, see we have housing assistance too. Again, these things only go to the poorest of the poor - usually only the disabled, elderly, and children. But the housing assistance is shit, and the food allowance is not enough to feed a bird.

Still, I'm shocked that Canada has NO means to provide food and housing to those that are desperate and have no way to get them on their own. I mean, often it isn't choosing between housing and food, it's that you can't get either, at all, period. Come on, Canada has to have a way to help those folks.

by Anonymousreply 1709/29/2013

It's a false premise to ask people to give up something they don't need to give up so rich bastards don't have to pay their fair share.

by Anonymousreply 1809/29/2013

I mean, I know here in the U.S. the greedy Republican thugs would gleefully round them, shoot them, and bury them in a mass grave... but I always thought Canada was more civilized than we are.

by Anonymousreply 1909/29/2013

R16 see R9

by Anonymousreply 2009/29/2013

Thanks to Campbell's Soup Canada, there's a special, inexpensive product 'just for the Food Bank community': Nourish.

In other developments, online resources for hunger in Canada paint an appalling picture.

by Anonymousreply 2109/29/2013

[quote]Most of the food assistance in the US is only for the elderly, disabled, and children whose parents can't feed them.

I guess it depends where you live? New Yorks program is not as strict.

Medicaid is now income, not asset, based, which means many people who would have never been eligible for Medicaid and food stamps in the past, are now getting free health care and food stamps. Single young people with no children, can get Medicaid/food stamps.

Read, get informed.

I know several people now, one is in their 20s, the other in their late 40s, on Medicaid, they get $200 a month worth food stamps.

Food stamps are no longer vouchers, which used to be sold be the recipients. The $200 is now deducted from a Medicaid card when recipients shop for their food. They cannot roll over the money to the next month.

by Anonymousreply 2209/29/2013

Yeah, I'm in Virginia. They'd abolish the programs all together if they could. I think one of the only worse states is Texas in terms of what they choose as the state poverty limit and what they give in benefits.

Also, I don't want to be forced to rely on the generosity of Campbells (or a church) if I become disabled, thank you very much.

by Anonymousreply 2309/29/2013

Oh, and the guy running for Lt. Gov. here believes in voodoo and a bunch of other nonsense.

Aside from the DC suburbs and a few other small pockets this state is an inbred pit that I can't wait to escape.

But then most Republican strongholds are inbred pits, with the ultra rich elite manipulating their actions and laughing all the way to the bank.

by Anonymousreply 2409/29/2013

[qoute] The $200 is now deducted from a Medicaid card when recipients shop for their food. They cannot roll over the money to the next month.

That depends on the county. In L.A. county, recipients can roll over the money. And it's not a Medicaid (called Medi-Cal here) card, it's an EBT card that has both the monthly food allowance as well as general relief or welfare monthly stipend.

by Anonymousreply 2509/29/2013

I wouldn't' cut either. We don't NEED to cut either. We should be expanding both.

If you want to cut something, how about cutting the military, or corporate welfare. Or better yet, just raise taxes on the ultra-wealthy, pass a jobs bill to increase revenues, and pass a financial transactions tax to start culling money from wall street.

Why would you try to balance the budget on the backs of the working poor and the needy? What kind of horrible person are you?

by Anonymousreply 2609/29/2013

[quote] What kind of horrible person are you?

As I said in Canada we don't have food stamps for the poor. We do have Universal healthcare.

by Anonymousreply 2709/29/2013

Stop repeating yourself OP. If you have something to say, shit or get off the pot. Are you arguing that Canada needs food stamps for the poor?

by Anonymousreply 2809/29/2013

When masses of people are starving, terrifying things start happening. Pleas research Korea to understand better.

by Anonymousreply 2909/29/2013

Shits gonna be goin' DOWN. Sooner than the Koch brothers and Murdoch think, too.

Their cooks are heating up the tar and their maids are getting together the feathers from all the pillows and down comforters.

by Anonymousreply 3009/29/2013

Canada has social assistance. Each province and territory is responsible for its own program. Included are allowances for shelter and food. Some provinces/territories also have income supplement programs for low income individuals and families. There are no food stamps, but there is definitely a benefit that allows people to buy food without having to take some demeaning government-issued coupons to the store. So OP, your argument or question or whatever makes me think you're either incredibly stupid or not a Canadian.

by Anonymousreply 3109/29/2013

R31 what about what the UN said about Canada at R9 ?

What about no National housing strategy

What about food bank usage in Canada at an all time high?

R31 is probably a Harper Conservative

by Anonymousreply 3209/29/2013

Canada has a homelessness initiative, from which shelter and home programs were developed. Again, each p/t is responsible for its own program. Food bank usage bring at an all time high doesn't mean there is no assistance to buy food. This isn't about political persuasion, either. It's about facts. Of which you know little.

by Anonymousreply 3309/29/2013

I like R11.

by Anonymousreply 3409/29/2013

R33 There is NO National Housing Strategy.

[quote] Food bank usage bring at an all time high doesn't mean there is no assistance to buy food.

So that makes it okay?

by Anonymousreply 3509/29/2013

Further, growing poverty is linked to growing wealth. As costs for goods such as housing rise, so does the overall cost of living. Of course wages and assistance aren't keeping pace, which means the gap is widening. And how was that 'growth' created? Speculation. Banks. Good ol' trickle down economics.

by Anonymousreply 3609/29/2013

Again, r35, there is a homelessness initiative, which is intended to address low-income housing. Not sure where you live, but I've seen developments spring up all over. And I didn't say I was fine with people not being able to afford into eat. I'm stating a fact, not an opinion.

by Anonymousreply 3709/29/2013

[quote] there is a homelessness initiative, which is intended to address low-income housing.

Which is not working because lack of affordable housing is a major problem in Canada.

by Anonymousreply 3809/29/2013

Corporate Welfare. Let the rich learn to survive on a cheaper brand of caviar.

by Anonymousreply 3909/29/2013

"Neither. I'd double both and slash the military budget."


by Anonymousreply 4009/29/2013

What conservatives want is

by Anonymousreply 4109/29/2013

[quote]"Neither. I'd double both and slash the military budget."

amen, sister.

by Anonymousreply 4209/29/2013

Suspend accrual of military benefits for each day of the shutdown. Suspend military contracts for construction and research/development for the same time period. Bolster combat ready manpower by instituting mandatory bootcamp for middle management each day of the shutdown.

by Anonymousreply 4309/29/2013

Cut both. I need my taxes cut further so I can (cough) create jobs.

by Anonymousreply 4409/29/2013

Ditto here too R40.

I'd also cut salary and health benefits to the Congress and Senate and only pay them for the days they actually work.

I end all corporate welfare raise taxes to 60% for all incomes over 250 thousand and make it illegal for companies in the USA to open offshore accounts.

I would make minimum wage $25.00 an hour and tie it to inflation so that it goes up every time inflation does.

I'd cap how much the food industry could raise their prices with exceptions they can apply for for something like horrible weather conditions that ruin all the orange or something.

I'd do single payer. No more for profit healthcare. Insurance companies out of business forever.

I'd raise SSI for the severely disabled to something livable instead of the less than $7,000 a year the severely disabled get now.

I'll bet if you put these things to a vote across the nation most Americans would vote yes, even the really stupid Republicans in red states because it would mean many of them getting more help.

by Anonymousreply 4509/29/2013


by Anonymousreply 4609/29/2013

I find it hard to believe OP is Canadian.

That's a weird report.

Take the food insecurity number.

The USDA reports in 14.5% of US households are food insecure. That's a clear statistic. 14.5% of all households.

The UN report says one in ten Canadian households with at least one child under six are food insecure. How much work went into to coming up with a demographic that hit one in ten? What is the overall number?

I'm guessing it is less - otherwise it would have been reported.

Even at one in ten - Canada is providing health care and feeding more of its population than the US.

by Anonymousreply 4709/29/2013

R45, North Korea called, they love your ideas.

by Anonymousreply 4809/29/2013

Neither OP.

by Anonymousreply 4909/29/2013

The GOP.

by Anonymousreply 5009/29/2013

It's sick that we live in a country that views health and food as "luxuries," especially when a lot of the assholes who view them as such are usually on the dole themselves.

by Anonymousreply 5109/29/2013

Neither has to be cut. Cut the fucking military and the CIA.

by Anonymousreply 5209/29/2013

Corporate welfare and farm subsidies. Cut the hogs off!

by Anonymousreply 5309/29/2013

It's funny that half the posts on the board these days are anti-Republican but if they speak of separating and everyone running their territory how they want it, people start to panic. "They can't do that!" It would seem to me, you'd be happy about any secession of Republican-leaning states. Scared of being stuck with your own policies? Need responsible, conservative people (be they R or D or L or Green) to finance your childishness?

by Anonymousreply 5409/29/2013

r54, Sweetie, could you link me to some of those posts from people who don't want to see those Southern, on-the-federal-government-teat states to secede? Because I haven't seen them.

I'd be happy to say good-bye to Alabama and its drag on the nation.

by Anonymousreply 5509/29/2013

R54, try that again in English. Who is saying "They can't do that" when it comes to Republican secession?

Because if you're even suggesting that it's liberals who haven't been the ones begging red states -who actually have their fucking hands out- to leave the union, then you people are dumber than I thought.

by Anonymousreply 5609/29/2013

R54 If the red states in the south seceded, hon', they'd be about as well off as Somalia in a decade.

by Anonymousreply 5709/29/2013

R54, you will not find a single post from those who live in blue states and are liberals/Dems who would not be willing to pack the bags of every useless red state. We already know that most of them take in more federal aid than they ever give back, but they sure as hell shoot their God damned mouths off like they're the ones keeping the entire country afloat.


I'm sorry to the liberals who live in those states, but you will be welcomed with opened arms. Join us where we actually believe Jesus didn't ride a dinosaur.

by Anonymousreply 5809/29/2013

[quote] I find it hard to believe OP is Canadian.

The number of Canadians turning to food banks for help is at an all-time high, according to the HungerCount 2012 national study released today by Food Banks Canada.

After dipping slightly in 2011, food bank use in Canada increased by 2.4% this year, and is now a staggering 31% higher than before the 2008-2009 recession.

The HungerCount 2012 report highlights that in a typical month, food banks across the country provide food to more than three quarters of a million separate individuals – 882,000 people – and more than 339,000 (38%) of those helped are children.

“It is shocking that, in a country as prosperous as Canada, hundreds of thousands of children rely on food banks to have enough to eat each month,” said Katharine Schmidt, Executive Director of Food Banks Canada, which coordinated the national study involving more than 4,500 food assistance programs. “Though food banks do what they can to fill the need, too many kids are still going to school on empty stomachs.”

“Hunger saps you physically and emotionally, particularly if you don’t know where your next meal is coming from,” continued Schmidt. “It has negative long-term health impacts, and prevents Canadians from contributing to their full potential.”

The HungerCount 2012 study also found that:

11% of those receiving food each month – 93,000 people – are accessing a food bank for the first time.

1 in 5 households assisted by food banks have income from current or recent employment.

21% of households helped are living on an old age or disability pension.

Half of households receiving food are families with children.

by Anonymousreply 5909/29/2013

UN special rapporteur for food Olivier De Schutter said he was in Canada to launch a conversation over a national food strategy, and he certainly started a debate.

Discussion centred on whether Canadians have trouble affording to feed themselves, with the government arguing De Schutter was wasting his time and advocates for the poor urging politicians to arrange for wide-ranging meetings to create a national food strategy.

De Schutter warned Wednesday that inequality is getting worse, with many Canadians having problems getting the healthy food they require.

The 11-day visit to Canada involved looking at whether poor people in Canada have adequate diets and at social policies to support people with low incomes, he said. De Schutter said his role is to help countries identify blind spots in public policies that would be easier to ignore — and that he didn't see why he should mince his words.

"We have a large number of Canadians who are unacceptably too poor to feed themselves decently," he said.

"We have in this country more than 800,000 households who are considered food insecure.... This situation is of great concern to me."

Canada has a standard of living that is envied throughout the world, he said. But inequality is increasing and the top 10 per cent of the country is 10 times more affluent than the bottom 10 per cent. Taxes and benefits reduce inequality much less than in most OECD countries.

Canada fails to adapt its social assistance benefits and minimum wage to the rising costs of basic necessities, including food and housing, he added. Food banks are not a solution but a symptom of failing social safety nets.

The Conservative government struck early, with Immigration Minister Jason Kenney suggesting De Schutter is wasting his organization's money by visiting a developed country.

"Canada sends billions of dollars of food aid to developing countries around the world where people are starving," Kenney said.

"It would be our hope that the contributions we make to the United Nations are used to help starving people in developing countries, not to give lectures to wealthy and developed countries like Canada. And I think this is a discredit to the United Nations."

De Schutter says most of his missions are in developing countries, but he estimates Canada has two to three million people who can't afford the diets they need to lead healthy lives. He says one million First Nations people and 55,000 Inuit are "the desperate situation" in which they find themselves.

"The right to food is about politics. It’s not about technicalities. It’s a matter of principle and it’s a matter of political will. I think these comments are symptomatic of the very problem that it is my duty to address," he said.

NDP MPs urged support for farmers and policies that ensure the working poor can feed themselves in the wake of De Schutter's report.

"This government says if you have a job, you won’t be poor. That’s not true," New Democrat MP Malcolm Allen said Wednesday.

At the same time, consumers are trying to re-educate themselves about where their food comes from, because much of it isn't grown locally, he said. Many farmers have to work off-farm to earn a living or export all their product to other countries to survive.

Hunger and consumer groups also called for a national strategy in Canada to deal with the quality, availability and price of food.

Representatives from Food Secure Canada, the National Farmers Union, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami and the Centre for Science in the Public Interest, called for a plan to connect farms with communities and to deal with a problem that sees families struggling to feed themselves.

Paul Slomp, youth spokesman for the National Farmers Union, said they agree that Canada’s food system is in dire need of attention. In the last 20 years, he said, the number of farmers under the age of 35 has decreased from 77,000 to a little more than 24,000.

"Parents who are farming are telling their kids it’s not worth the stress and it’s not worth the debt," he said.

by Anonymousreply 6009/29/2013

For all of you saying cut the military, how would you propose to employ the suddenly unemployed by that cut?

by Anonymousreply 6109/29/2013

How about for a start have them repair our crumbling infrastructure.

by Anonymousreply 6209/29/2013

they can work the minimum wage jobs that their supporters (repugs) claim are sufficient to support themselves.

by Anonymousreply 6309/29/2013

too right

by Anonymousreply 6409/30/2013
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