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The so-called US Recovery is a joke

The economy pretty much sucks right now and everyone is in denial.

The median income levels in the US fell radically after the recession was declared over and haven't recovered at all

The graph at the link shows the decline. The median household income fell two percent in the recession and has fallen six percent since the end of the recession.

And the calculation includes all government payments to individuals, including Social Security and unemployment.

It's interesting that unemployment decreased at the same time that the median household income was going down. I guess the higher paying full-time jobs were replaced by low paying part time jobs

by Anonymousreply 9105/28/2014

Kindly go fuck yourself.

by Anonymousreply 108/25/2013

Who's in denial? I'm a lawyer. I have almost no individual clients left. People can't pay for basic services when they're unable to get full time hours at $9 am hour.

by Anonymousreply 208/25/2013

But the stock market is at record levels & home prices are skyrocketing again! Nothing to see here, folks--everything is GREAT!!!

by Anonymousreply 308/25/2013

And, of course, the government reported unemployment rate understates the magnitude of the problem

[quote]Year to date, only 130,000 full-time jobs have been added to our economy. The rest of the jobs — 557,000 — have been part time.

And it's getting worse

[quote]It's even worse when you consider all of the net addition to June jobs — repeat, all — were part time. Compared with the 360,000 part-time positions created, full-time employment shrank by 240,000.

So people are taking jobs for which they are overqualified

[quote]The underemployment rate, which measures those working in a job for which they're overqualified, or working part-time when they really want full-time work, shot up from 13.8% to 14.3% in June

Hey but a job is a job right? At least it is to the government.

by Anonymousreply 408/25/2013

[qute]everyone is in denial

Except you? Plenty of people doubt the recovery. You're not that original.

by Anonymousreply 508/25/2013

[quote]The economy pretty much sucks right now and everyone is in denial.

Um...your own link shows exactly what everyone has been claiming: that we are seeing a modest, slow, and all-too-fragile, recovery. Where is the "denial?"

by Anonymousreply 608/25/2013

I posted this on another thread, but at least this OP gets it- the economy is about to get MUCH worse.

----

Ugh.

Anyone who understands Austrian economics knows that the business cycle (created by the boom-bust nature of the Federal Reserve) always starts to turn when money flows from capital investment to consumer goods.

This is NOT a good sign- just more proof that a major downturn is coming.

Fuck the Republicans- they are almost as bad as Democrats when it comes to economics.

by Anonymousreply 708/25/2013

Because spamming nonsense on multiple threads somehow makes it less nonsensical? Yeah, right...

by Anonymousreply 808/25/2013

Waitress: Morning!

Man: Well, what've you got?

Waitress: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam; spam bacon sausage and spam; spam egg spam spam bacon and spam; spam sausage spam spam bacon spam tomato and spam;

Vikings: Spam spam spam spam...

Waitress: ...spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam...

Vikings: Spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam!

Waitress: ...or Lobster Thermidor a Crevette with a mornay sauce served in a Provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam.

Wife: Have you got anything without spam?

Waitress: Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.

Wife: I don't want ANY spam!

Man: Why can't she have egg bacon spam and sausage?

Wife: THAT'S got spam in it!

Man: Hasn't got as much spam in it as spam egg sausage and spam, has it?

Vikings: Spam spam spam spam... (Crescendo through next few lines...)

Wife: Could you do the egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam then?

Waitress: Urgghh!

Wife: What do you mean 'Urgghh'? I don't like spam!

Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!

Waitress: Shut up!

Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!

Waitress: Shut up! (Vikings stop) Bloody Vikings! You can't have egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam.

Wife: I don't like spam!

Man: Sshh, dear, don't cause a fuss. I'll have your spam. I love it. I'm having spam spam spam spam spam spam spam beaked beans spam spam spam and spam!

Vikings: Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!

Waitress: Shut up!! Baked beans are off.

Man: Well could I have her spam instead of the baked beans then?

Waitress: You mean spam spam spam spam spam spam... (but it is too late and the Vikings drown her words)

Vikings: (Singing elaborately...) Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam! Spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam. Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Spam spam spam spam!

by Anonymousreply 908/25/2013

why we need a truly massive government stimulus, but the regressives would rather see us crash and burn yet again then give up their fallacious theories.

by Anonymousreply 1008/25/2013

It's not much of a recovery, but it's better than we've had for a decade.

by Anonymousreply 1108/25/2013

[quote]Anyone who understands Austrian economics

hahahahahahhaha

by Anonymousreply 1208/25/2013

R10-

Where does the money for a "massive government stimulus" come from?

by Anonymousreply 1308/25/2013

This is where it comes from, R13:

Waitress: Morning!

Man: Well, what've you got?

Waitress: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam; spam bacon sausage and spam; spam egg spam spam bacon and spam; spam sausage spam spam bacon spam tomato and spam;

Vikings: Spam spam spam spam...

Waitress: ...spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam...

Vikings: Spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam!

Waitress: ...or Lobster Thermidor a Crevette with a mornay sauce served in a Provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam.

Wife: Have you got anything without spam?

Waitress: Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.

Wife: I don't want ANY spam!

Man: Why can't she have egg bacon spam and sausage?

Wife: THAT'S got spam in it!

Man: Hasn't got as much spam in it as spam egg sausage and spam, has it?

Vikings: Spam spam spam spam... (Crescendo through next few lines...)

Wife: Could you do the egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam then?

Waitress: Urgghh!

Wife: What do you mean 'Urgghh'? I don't like spam!

Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!

Waitress: Shut up!

Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!

Waitress: Shut up! (Vikings stop) Bloody Vikings! You can't have egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam.

Wife: I don't like spam!

Man: Sshh, dear, don't cause a fuss. I'll have your spam. I love it. I'm having spam spam spam spam spam spam spam beaked beans spam spam spam and spam!

Vikings: Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!

Waitress: Shut up!! Baked beans are off.

Man: Well could I have her spam instead of the baked beans then?

Waitress: You mean spam spam spam spam spam spam... (but it is too late and the Vikings drown her words)

Vikings: (Singing elaborately...) Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam! Spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam. Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Spam spam spam spam!

by Anonymousreply 1408/25/2013

Deficit spending, just as we've done dozens of times in the past century. This isn't rocket science; it's basic macro-economics. Government spending increases during the downturn to reduce the duration and the intensity of the downturn and then it is paid back when the economy recovers.

by Anonymousreply 1508/25/2013

THANK GOD I NEVER PUT ANYTHING AWAY!!!

by Anonymousreply 1608/25/2013

R15, logic, facts and history are all lost on the Libertardian Troll, we all know that. There is only one way to deal with her:

Four well-dressed men are sitting together at a vacation resort. 'Farewell to Thee' is played in the background on Hawaiian guitar.

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN: Aye, very passable, that, very passable bit of risotto.

SECOND YORKSHIREMAN: Nothing like a good glass of Château de Chasselas, eh, Josiah?

THIRD YORKSHIREMAN: You're right there, Obadiah.

FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN: Who'd have thought thirty year ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Château de Chasselas, eh?

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN: In them days we was glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.

SECOND YORKSHIREMAN: A cup o' cold tea.

FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN: Without milk or sugar.

THIRD YORKSHIREMAN: Or tea.

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN: In a cracked cup, an' all.

FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN: Oh, we never had a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.

SECOND YORKSHIREMAN: The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.

THIRD YORKSHIREMAN: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN: Because we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness, son".

FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN: Aye, 'e was right.

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN: Aye, 'e was.

FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN: I was happier then and I had nothin'. We used to live in this tiny old house with great big holes in the roof.

SECOND YORKSHIREMAN: House! You were lucky to live in a house! We used to live in one room, all twenty-six of us, no furniture, 'alf the floor was missing, and we were all 'uddled together in one corner for fear of falling.

THIRD YORKSHIREMAN: Eh, you were lucky to have a room! We used to have to live in t' corridor!

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN: Oh, we used to dream of livin' in a corridor! Would ha' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woke up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House? Huh.

FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN: Well, when I say 'house' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a sheet of tarpaulin, but it was a house to us.

SECOND YORKSHIREMAN: We were evicted from our 'ole in the ground; we 'ad to go and live in a lake.

THIRD YORKSHIREMAN: You were lucky to have a lake! There were a hundred and fifty of us living in t' shoebox in t' middle o' road.

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN: Cardboard box?

THIRD YORKSHIREMAN: Aye.

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

SECOND YORKSHIREMAN: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!

THIRD YORKSHIREMAN: Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.

FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN: And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.

ALL: They won't!

by Anonymousreply 1708/25/2013

The one percent have bled the country dry. We're competing with the rest of the world for work and if they're not smarter than we are, they'll work for nothing.

The only hope is to work in an area that caters to the very rich or the very young.

by Anonymousreply 1808/25/2013

R15-

Where does that "deficit spending" money come from? Quit dodging the question.

by Anonymousreply 1908/25/2013

R19-

It's not the 1% it's the .01% that pay off congressmen and presidents and other apparatchik thieves that are killing this country.

They can use their control of government to enrich themselves at the expense of the bottom 99.99%.

by Anonymousreply 2008/25/2013

Smoke & mirrors. You guys wanna see a magic trick!?

by Anonymousreply 2108/25/2013

No shit, R21

Bernanke is trapped- look at what happened when he hinted, obliquely, that the Federal Reserve would curtail the purchase of $85B/mo (yes, over $1T/yr) in MBS and UST.

As soon as it becomes inevitable that the Federal Reserve cannot purchase these instruments (and they currently own almost 1/3rd of the market) the crash will be epic. Inflation is already at 1970s levels (despite what the government propaganda numbers say) and unemployment is higher than in the 1930s.

The simpletons who believe everything the (government controlled) media says are scary. They will be the ones screaming for the government to "DO SOMETHING" and bewildered by the fact that the economy is dying.

by Anonymousreply 2208/25/2013

Here's the link to Schiff being mocked for saying that housing was going to collapse. In 2006, just months before the subprime debacle started.

by Anonymousreply 2308/25/2013

(voice over) Number ninety-seven: a radio.

voice on radio: And now the BBC is proud to present a brand new radio drama series: The Death of Mary, Queen of Scots.

Part One: The Beginning.

(music)

man's voice: Yoo arrr Mary, Queen of Scots?

woman's voice: I am! (sound of violent blows being dealt, things being smashed, awful crunching noises, bones being broken, and other bodily harm being inflicted. All of this accompanied by screaming from the woman.)

(music fades up and out)

voice: Stay tuned for part two of the Radio Four Production of "The Death of Mary, Queen of Scots", coming up...almost immediately.

(music)

(sound of saw cutting, and other violent sounds as before, with the woman screaming. Suddenly it is silent.)

man's voice: I think she's dead.

woman's voice: No I'm not!

(sounds of physical harm and screaming start again.)

(music fades up and out)

voice: that was episode two of "The Death of Mary, Queen of Scots", specially adapted for radio by Gracie Fields and Joe Frazier. And now, Radio Four will explode.

(music)

the radio explodes.

Two old women are sitting on the couch listening to the radio when it explodes. One looks at the other:

1: We'll have to watch the Telly-vision!

2: Aaaaw.

(they turn the couch so it's facing the television. One turns the television on, and they sit down. There is a small penguin sitting on top of the television set.)

1 & 2: (singing, mumbled) hhmhmhmhmh... mhmmhmh mhmhm hhmhmmhm mhmhmmhmhmh

1: What's that on top of the telly-vision set?

(pause)

2: (matter-of-factly) Looks like a penguin.

1: What's it doin' there?

2: It's sittin'.

1: I can see that! I meant, why's it there?

2: (pause) I don't know.

1: Where'd it come from?

2: Well, it must have come from the zoo.

1: It can't have come from the zoo! If it had come from the zoo it would have "Property of the Zoo" stamped on it!

2: They don't stamp animals "Property of the Zoo"!!! You can't stamp a huge lion!!

1: (resolute) They stamp them when they're small.

2: Besides, penguins don't come from the zoo! they come from the antartic!

(the television warms up: a man is sitting behind a news desk)

man: And now the penguin on top of your television set will explode.

(the penguin explodes)

1: 'Ow did 'e know that was going to happen?!

man: it was an educated guess. And now:

voice over: Number ninety-eight: the nape of the neck.

by Anonymousreply 2408/25/2013

R24 Is there a point in you posting Monty Python sketches?

It's not clever, it's retarded.

by Anonymousreply 2508/25/2013

[quote]Where does that "deficit spending" money come from? Quit dodging the question.

LOL.... The same place it's always come from, moron. Is history and economics always this much trouble for you? Deficit spending is neither new nor controversial

by Anonymousreply 2608/25/2013

[quote]Bernanke is trapped-

Actually, no, he's not, which is why none of your dire predictions has come true. None of this is new; none of this is rocket science; it's basic economics, just as it has been dozens of times before.

[quote]look at what happened when he hinted, obliquely, that the Federal Reserve would curtail the purchase of $85B/mo (yes, over $1T/yr) in MBS and UST.

*Shrug* Investors, and most economists, think Bernanke spoke too soon. The market briefly overreacted and promptly cooled back down a few weeks later. And, as usual, your confident predictions about doom and gloom and 50% interest rates completely failed to materialize.

[quote]As soon as it becomes inevitable that the Federal Reserve cannot purchase these instruments (and they currently own almost 1/3rd of the market) the crash will be epic.

LOL.... Moron, the money is just sitting there in the Fed's books and it will be erased just as easily as it was added, which is why none of your dire predictions has, or will, come true.

[quote]Inflation is already at 1970s levels (despite what the government propaganda numbers say)

Sorry, moron, but it's not. If you're thinking of the Shadowstats site, you really shouldn't. That site is no more accurate than the Unskewed Polls site was for the 2012 elections. It's not using the 1970s calculation for inflation; it's simply adding an offset to the current calculation, which is really stupid. And only gullible morons like you are unable to see that.

Since the government inflation rate has been closely tracking the MIT inflation rate data, despite the inevitable glitches here and there, which always swing back again in a few months, we have pretty clear evidence that, as usual, you're wrong.

[quote]The simpletons who believe everything the (government controlled) media says are scary.

The simpletons who believe everything they read on their wacko conspiracy sites are scary. And stupid, And hilariously funny!

[quote]They will be the ones screaming for the government to "DO SOMETHING" and bewildered by the fact that the economy is dying.

So you've been claiming for half a dozen years, at least. When are your predictions, *any* of them, going to come true?

by Anonymousreply 2708/25/2013

[quote]Here's the link to Schiff being mocked for saying that housing was going to collapse. In 2006, just months before the subprime debacle started.

Moron, everyone knew there was a housing bubble that was going to collapse, including your favorite Keynesian enemies. As for Schiff, here's a link to his other predictions, most of which haven't even remotely come true. I love the one where he says we probably won't even make it to 2012!

by Anonymousreply 2808/25/2013

[quote]Moron, everyone knew there was a housing bubble that was going to collapse, including your favorite Keynesian enemies.

Funny...NO ONE I knew ever seemed to 'know' about the coming housing bubble collapse. In fact they'd fight with me whenever I told them I expected home prices to collapse. "But this is California!" they'd say. "Everybody wants to live here!" they'd say. I bet they wish they'd have listened to me now.

by Anonymousreply 2908/25/2013

I hate to interrupt, R27, and I think you're fab for smashing this 'tard to smithereens so regularly, but.. uh....

The troll did correctly predict that no one would ever willingly fuck him without getting paid for it first.

So there's that.

by Anonymousreply 3008/25/2013

[quote]Funny...NO ONE I knew ever seemed to 'know' about the coming housing bubble collapse.

Kevin Drum on the Washington Monthly blog correctly pointed out that we were in a housing bubble that would collapse. And he's just a reasonably well-educated layman. Paul Krugman, of course, got it right, as did a number of other prominent economists. Hell, *I* knew we were in a bubble that was going to pop, just as I knew that about the price of gold. All it took was a little common sense and some basic knowledge of history, housing prices, and economics.

[quote]The troll did correctly predict that no one would ever willingly fuck him without getting paid for it first.

LOL.... I stand corrected, R30.

by Anonymousreply 3108/25/2013

Yes R31, but it's amazing how a financial interest in real estate made these people stick their heads in the sand and not see the writing on the wall. I eventually learned not even to bring up the housing bubble with my home owning friends, as it only lead to fights.

by Anonymousreply 3208/25/2013

It wasn't just that, R32. Some of the people who had their heads in the sand did so for ideological reasons, e.g., Alan Greenspan. There were some prominent folks who did miss this; it just wasn't the people that our resident libertarian troll keeps claiming.

by Anonymousreply 3308/25/2013

R25-

The poster @ R24 is like the Black Night in "MP&tHG" in that he cannot see that his argument for MORE government control and MORE Federal Reserve intervention is just making things worse.

Pointing out that he is fundamentally wrong is "merely a flesh wound" even though both arms and legs of his argument are spewing blood.

Look at the Peter Schiff video- even though Schiff correctly predicts the SubPrime crisis, and correctly predicts that the government will try to stop the losses, and THEN correctly predicts that those "stop loss" actions will make things worse---he cannot admit that Schiff was right. It's about to get much worse, once again, due to government and Federal Reserve incompetence.

Admitting that he is wrong would make him question his worship of the government and socialism.

It's sad, but he keeps posting the same shit, over and over.

by Anonymousreply 3408/25/2013

[quote]The poster @ R24 is like the Black Night in "MP&tHG" in that he cannot see that his argument for MORE government control and MORE Federal Reserve intervention is just making things worse.

ROFL.... Making shit up again, are you? R24 is simply posting Monty Python sketches. By all means, please post the info as to how he's making an "argument for MORE government control and MORE Federal Reserve intervention."

[quote]Pointing out that he is fundamentally wrong

LOL.... Moron, you haven't been able to prove *anyone* "fundamentally wrong" in years here. Every time you try, you get your ass handed to you.

[quote]Look at the Peter Schiff video

Uh-huh, and look at Schiff's other predictions to see how embarrassingly wrong he's been.

[quote]It's about to get much worse, once again, due to government and Federal Reserve incompetence.

So you've been claiming for years and yet, somehow, those predictions, like all of your predictions and like Peter Schiff's predictions, never come true. Why is that?

[quote]Admitting that he is wrong would make him question his worship of the government and socialism.

ROFL.... Moron, why do you bother to clumsily make shit up like this?

[quote]It's sad, but he keeps posting the same shit, over and over.

Uh-huh, because posting Monty Python sketches is just so much evidence for his "worship of the government and socialism."

Tell me, do you even listen to yourself?

by Anonymousreply 3508/25/2013

R35-

Thank you for the link.

I can't believe that people can be that stupid and disingenuous.

Your predictions of an economic recovery "right around the corner" are funny, but this guy takes the cake.

As a comparison- please watch the video at the link, from 2001

If I believed in "precognitive super powers" I would say this man has them.

Sometimes I think you actually believe the bullshit you post, but then I think there's no way someone can be THAT stupid.

by Anonymousreply 3608/25/2013

R9-

Seek help.

by Anonymousreply 3705/17/2014

What a psychotic response. You can argue or refute a point, but to go to personal attacks and "go fuck yourself" based on the OP is nutty. You'd have thought the original post was some inflammatory offensive diatribe. Leave the circle-jerk. This is why arguing with people at extremes is so easy, they have no idea how to even argue their own points because they listen to people who think like them on every issue, no matter how extreme it is and simply launch personal attacks at those not at those extremes with them (sometimes even if they agree). You're just like bible thumpers, it's like taking candy from a baby arguing the bible with them because you have to strengthen your arguments and know your stuff out of necessity. When you sit around and suck each other off, your arguments are shallow and, really, you can't defend your positions, which is why it's always about the personal attack.

by Anonymousreply 3805/17/2014

OP is quite correct, we are in a bad way.

by Anonymousreply 3905/18/2014

We are in a much better way than we were in 2007 and before….

by Anonymousreply 4005/18/2014

R41- You be drinking the kool-ade.

by Anonymousreply 4105/18/2014

Fact:

Per the Miami Herald,home prices in Miami increased by 16% in January,2014 alone. And they continue to climb. This is exactly the same scenario that precipitated the 2007-2008 crash.

Prices in Broward County (Ft Lauderdale area) & Palm Beach County are greatly increasing as well, but not by as much. Yet.

Yes, I would say this is a real estate bubble.

by Anonymousreply 4205/18/2014

Agreed OP.

The tack is to take what Krugman has been talking about since 2008.

Yet the government continues to stick to austerity policies - cut spending to the extent the middle class is vanishing - when they should be increasing it.

It serves the purpose of those in the government/wall street revolving door in the short term. as the stock market rises indicate, while the country goes down the tubes as a whole.

by Anonymousreply 4305/18/2014

AND WHY with oh so wonderful Obamacare--has my health insurance premium risen each of the past three years and will rise again 2015 AND my decuctible will now be way over $2000 and emergency room copay of $150 plus the exhorbitant fee.

COULD IT BE that I and others who work hard and pay for our own insurance are supporting OBAMACARE?

I THINK IT STINKS! I WOULD LIKE A FREE HANDOUT TOO!

by Anonymousreply 4405/18/2014

r45, you are an idiot. You have been paying through the nose for people to use the emergency rooms as their primary place of healthcare and who never pay their bills from day one. Now those same people will get cheaper preventative care and use the very expensive emergency rooms less.

by Anonymousreply 4505/18/2014

Houses here in the Hamptons are being built round the clock. They're roughly 2-5x the size they were in the 90s and selling like hotcakes.

by Anonymousreply 4605/18/2014

The r45 's of the world are simpletons.

by Anonymousreply 4705/18/2014

R45: An annual deductible of only $2000?

Consider yourself lucky. There are those whose deductibles are $5000-6000/yr, depending on the plan they have & where they live.

The ticking time bomb of our national debt is approaching $19 TRILLION ($10 trillion when Obama took office, btw).

All those who got into Medicaid/Medicare, insurance subsidies, etc, via Obamacare? Their costs will be absorbed in the short term, by more gov't borrowing & in the long term, by greatly increased taxes.

Those who work & pay, in both the short & long term scenarios, will pay ever higher premiums to offset the subsidized.

by Anonymousreply 4805/18/2014

The debt of a country is not the same as personal debt, r49.

by Anonymousreply 4905/18/2014

R49: In this case, they are closely tied together.

The Fed gov't borrowing on behalf of the nation's citizens, is increasing both our individual debt burdens & the national debt.

If the gov't is borrowing & increasing the national debt to subsidize healthcare in general & Obamacare in particular, that is debt that all of us with 2 cents to rub together, will eventually have to pay off.

Higher personal income taxes, higher taxes across the board, more sovereign borrowing (at ever higher interest rates), etc

by Anonymousreply 5005/18/2014

That houses are being built in the Hamptons or that home prices are rising in Miami doesn't mean as much as you think. The Hamptons are an enclave for the very wealthy. Miami is a destination, esp. for wealth from abroad. So, of course homes will be built there or rise in value. Heck, even real estate in Detroit is rising in value as foreign investors snap up property, sometimes sight unseen.

It is the value of housing in the rest of the nation that is of concern. And just because prices rise a bit does not a housing bubble make.

by Anonymousreply 5105/18/2014

OK but as [R45] originally asked, why isn't Obamacare LOWERING COSTS for everyone--that was the sell, wasn't it, that costs would go down?

by Anonymousreply 5205/18/2014

r51, that's not the point. Countries don't die, so accounts never have to be zeroed out. Countries can manipulate currency, households cannot. Countries have tremendous natural resources that balance their tremendous debts. Much of a country's debt is due to itself in the form of various government agencies. And on and on. You cannot act as if a government is equivalent to a person.

by Anonymousreply 5305/18/2014

R46: A very large % of those using hospital emergency rooms nationwide for primary care needs, are the 15-20 million illegal aliens who've set up shop in the US.

They have never paid before, they will not pay now (since they are rightfully excluded from Obamacare coverage) & the rest of us will continue to be financially soaked to subsidize that hospital revenue loss.

by Anonymousreply 5405/18/2014

I have a job, but it pays about 50% of what my 2008 job paid. I also have to work shift work just to have this job. Life sucks to be my age (Mid 50's) and basically having to start over.

by Anonymousreply 5505/18/2014

An actual number and source would make that argument have some value, r55.

by Anonymousreply 5605/18/2014

Hmmm the worse recession since the great depression has turned into the slowest recovery since the great depression.

You would have ever guessed that could happen.

by Anonymousreply 5705/18/2014

R57: The "11 million illegal aliens in the US" # has been deceptively used since the 2000 Census, which even then, the gov't admitted was a massive undercount.

Fast forward to today & they're still using that figure. It's ridiculously low & is being maintained for strictly political reasons. Do some Google searches & educate yourself.

Do you really think there would be any political support for an illegal alien amnesty, if the American ppl knew that this # was 20 million, maybe even higher?

In the county where I own property, there is a $15 million line item in the county budget, for hospital svces for illegal aliens - which property owners & other taxpayers are paying. And this is one county, in one state. I'm sure the true cost, nationwide, is an astronomical amount.

by Anonymousreply 5805/18/2014

Imagine what a mess we would have been in now if war monger McCain and his clueless, floozy Palin would have won in 2008. I shudder to think.

by Anonymousreply 5905/18/2014

EVERYONE knows this-some just are too delusional to admit it? Are you really any better off than you were during the Bush era ? Do you really prefer the Obama reign of terror ?

by Anonymousreply 6005/18/2014

Get a grip, r61, the terror was the Cheney/bush debacle. Wake up.

I'm much better off now.

by Anonymousreply 6105/18/2014

R44 nailed it. The best thing this country could do is get rid of the Republicans and pump money back into this country. That's the only way for the middle class to survive and for us to fix the deficit. The answer is so easy yet it will never happen.

As Krugman said, we're going to end up like the Japanese who never fully got out of their recession. In spite the warnings in the 90s they opted to cut spending. It didn't work.

by Anonymousreply 6205/18/2014

So, r59, you responded to a request for firm numbers and a source with more numbers pulled out of your ass? Got it.

by Anonymousreply 6305/18/2014

What exactly is the "Obama reign of terror"? And what would you have had him do differently?

by Anonymousreply 6405/18/2014

Funny that those who were treated with liberality and generosity far beyond their inherit worth to others are now imposing austerity...

by Anonymousreply 6505/18/2014

R64: I CLEARLY said..Google it yourself. I don't do anyone's homework. It's a few seconds of Google searching, to find what I'm referring to.

by Anonymousreply 6605/18/2014

If you can't make an argument, I'm not going to make it for you.

by Anonymousreply 6705/18/2014

On the surface, the economic atmosphere of the U.S. has appeared rather calm and uneventful. Stocks are up, employment isn’t great but jobs aren’t collapsing into the void (at least not openly), and the U.S. dollar seems to be going strong. Peel away the thin veneer, however, and a different financial horror show is revealed.

U.S. stocks have enjoyed unprecedented crash protection due to a steady infusion of fiat money from the Federal Reserve known as quantitative easing. With the advent of the “taper”, QE is now swiftly coming to a close (as is evident in the overall reduction in treasury market purchases), and is slated to end by this fall, if not sooner.

Employment has been boosted only in statistical presentation, and not in reality. The Labor Department’s creative accounting of job numbers omits numerous factors, the most important being the issue of long term unemployed. Millions of people who have been jobless for so long they no longer qualify for benefits are being removed from the rolls. This quiet catastrophe has the side bonus of making it appear as though unemployment is going down.

by Anonymousreply 6805/21/2014

Although I doubt R68 will be able to actually read and comprehend the post, the reality is clear.

The simple facts are---

-the US Federal Reserve announced that it would "taper" the +$1T/yr in UST emergency purchases.

-it has now cut those purchases by $300B.

-Belgium (via EuroClear) has stepped in to fill the gap.

-preventing the inexorable rise in interest rates.

-while Russia has dumped +$200B in UST over the last 2 months.

The US Government knows that if the Federal Reserve quits buying USGOV debt that the bond markets AND stock markets will crash violently. The impact can barely be overstated.

So, keep your head in the sand and ignore reality.

by Anonymousreply 6905/21/2014

I'm re-reading the posts from 9 months ago, hoping the posters return for updates.

It seems that a few of them "got it" and saw that the "US Economic Recovery" was a sick joke perpetuated by the government and their controlled media.

If unemployment is down, why do the data from the USGOV show that the "workforce participation rate" is lower than it was in the 1970s--- a time when most women did not hold jobs outside the home?

Why do the data show that inflation adjusted wages are lower than they were in the 1970s?

Why are more people using SSDI, SNAP, & S8 as a total percentage of income than any group in history?

The big banks & big corporations have hijacked our government and are using it to rape and destroy the bottom 90%. I wish you were smart enough to see that.

by Anonymousreply 7005/21/2014

Someone earlier complained that his insurance rates have gone up, and blames Obamacare. Insurance rates have been going up far faster than inflation for decades. This isn't anything new. It's ridiculous to blame Obamacare for the continuation of a trend that is decades old.

Most people are getting cheaper insurance through the ACA. There are always exceptions to every trend, but those exceptions shouldn't be used to condemn the ACA, when the vast majority are benefiting.

by Anonymousreply 7105/21/2014

R49, yes, Obama inherited an economy that was is freefall. Things were a lot worse than anyone thought at the time, and I even suspect that Obama had to downplay how bad it was, to avoid spreading panic in the financial markets, as people were already panicking. You recall the Government guaranteed all money market funds? That was because people were starting to do "bank runs" on money market funds. We were days away from a total collapse.

So, of course the deficit is bigger now than it was at the beginning if the meltdown. That's what happens, when the economy collapses. Tax revenue drops, and safetynet spending increases. Without Obama and the Democrats fighting for the 99%, we'd have 25% unemployment and double the deficit.

by Anonymousreply 7205/21/2014

R72-

Compare the rates for government controlled medicine with the rates for cosmetic surgery (which is rarely covered by insurance/Medicare).

Cosmetic surgery costs, once inflation is factored, have dropped every year...ever. Facelift, boob job, lipo, rhinoplasty, etc., all of them are cheaper today than they were 20 or 30 or 50 years ago because the government stayed out of their way.

by Anonymousreply 7305/21/2014

Obama and the Democrats are not the 99%. Give it up already. Stop acting like they are not equally responsible. At what point do you act like an adult and stop the worship of a political party? It's one big, long story and the only consistent actors are the same two political parties, that is really one party.

by Anonymousreply 7405/21/2014

I'm definitely better off today than I was under George Bush. I lost 2/3 of my savings under Bush. Under Obama, I've recovered everything I lost, and more.

I also was briefly on Romneycare, Massachusetts' version of Obamacare. My employer provided insurance was so bad, I dropped it as soon as I could. Romneycare covered a procedure that I needed but which my crappy employer provided insurance wouldn't cover. My experience is a perfect example why the ACA is so important. It was a relief that I was able to get affordable healthcare insurance that actually covered my medical needs, and I am happy that everybody now has that opportunity.

by Anonymousreply 7505/21/2014

Cosmetic surgery is cheaper because it is entirely elective. Consumers can choose when and if to have it. Most procedures aren't. When you're having a heart attack, you're not going to call each hospital to ask about rates before heading to the ER.

And even then, cosmetic surgery is still regulated. One still has to be a licensed physician to perform most procedures. You're confusing not being covered by insurance with not being regulated. That's completely false.

by Anonymousreply 7605/21/2014

R45, yes, you are supporting 320 million of your lazy neighbors. Nobody works hard but you.

I am curious, this is anonymous, how much did you earn last year, and how much did you pay in taxes? I'm guessing you paid a very small percentage in taxes, and the total amount is so piddling you aren't even covering your own costs to society.

by Anonymousreply 7705/21/2014

R61, LOL, are you really terrorized by Obama? Maybe you're just terrorized, and it has nothing to do with Obama? Have you any idea what it actually means to be truly terrorized by your government? If you're terrorized, you are either mentally I'll, or don't know what the word 'terror" actually means.

by Anonymousreply 7805/21/2014

My wages have dropped and are stagnated, but after almost two years of solid unemployment, I try not to complain about my slave wages.

I want the US to be more like Europe and boycott, protest, and actually do something more than scratch our complacent assess all day while the 99% are being destroyed so that some asshole can have a 500k bonus to build his 10th villa.

I'm nauseated knowing that I'm making the same wage my non-college educated mother made in the 80s. Not to mention my brother who can't find any full time work to save his life, and has to live at home.

America is now a plutocracy, while we* ate McDs and watched the Kardashians, the corporations became people and took over. Now it's too late.

*not DL, but you know who I mean

by Anonymousreply 7905/21/2014

OBAMA IS A PUPPET, AND WE ALL KNOW WHO THE PUPPETEERS ARE.

by Anonymousreply 8005/21/2014

R77

[quote]Cosmetic surgery is cheaper because it is entirely elective. Consumers can choose when and if to have it. Most procedures aren't.

Yes, and therefore the government is barely involved. As in corrective dentistry/orthodontics, the lack of government meddling and interference has made cosmetic surgery more affordable.

[quote]When you're having a heart attack, you're not going to call each hospital to ask about rates before heading to the ER.

No, but that is straw man. If you had FULL CHOICE on medical providers, hospitals, etc. this wouldn't happen. Our government intervenes on EVERY medical choice. There is no competition- if YOU decided to open a medical practice, any moron that chose you deserves to suffer from their incompetent behavior.

The 99% of us who aren't dumbasses would check to make sure our Dr or Nurse or "Health Care Provider" had insurance to cover inevitable screw ups, usually MULTIPLE insurance systems to protect them and the patient and the Dr. Would YOU pick a Dr that only had "ACME.WTF" as their single insurer? Do you think your med insurance provider would cover procedures performed by Dr Acme?

[quote]And even then, cosmetic surgery is still regulated.

Yes, but relative to others, cosmetics are loosely regulated, and the prices keep dropping while the results keep getting better.

[quote]One still has to be a licensed physician to perform most procedures.

See above. If anyone could hang a sign and say "I'm a Dr" then where is the harm? How do you justify turning medicine over to a government that is willfully incompetent and ignorant. Read the latest studies of VA hospitals, chronicling the abuse, ignorance, high costs and iatrogenic deaths and then say "yes, I want the government to have total control of my health care!"

[quote]You're confusing not being covered by insurance with not being regulated.

No, I know that CozSurjs are "regulated" by the government, but it is far less than all the rest.

[quote]That's completely false.

So, please explain how the government helps?

by Anonymousreply 8105/21/2014

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

by Anonymousreply 8205/21/2014

R82, nearly everything you posted was either a complete lie or so utterly lacking any evidence that it can be dismissed immediately.

You claim that government is barely involved in cosmetic procedures. How? You've already conceded that doctors are subject to similar licensing requirements. Do these doctors have less stringent health standards? Require less insurance. You claim that they are less regulated without giving a single example.

The very fact that you claim "what's the harm?" if people without medical training decide to practice medicine exposes you as a blithering idiot. The occasional case where people are arrested for harming people by practicing medicine without a license demolishes your argument. See the case at link. Do you want this to be a more regular occurrence?

These cases are rare. Why? Because the government, yes, that evil entity that does no good ever, imposes heavy penalties on people who practice medicine illegally. The cost -- that people are required to spend years training to become doctors and are subject to stringent health code requirements -- is a small price to pay to ensure that health care is mostly safe. This is what most sane people believe.

As for your blunt dismissal of the fact that the health care markets for elective and necessary procedures are different? Again, lies and delusions. You operate under a simplistic notion that "free market supply demand good, government baaad!" Not every market is the same. There are factors that make one more subject to inflationary pressures, and it's not government regulation. It's the basic imbalances (information, necessity) between the two parties to the transaction. Your libertarian zealotry requires you to ignore basic economic inequalities under the belief that the free market is no more complex than the simple supply and demand curve taught on the first day of Econ 101.

If economics were that simple, they wouldn't give out Nobel prizes for mastering it, they'd give gold stars to kindergarteners, whose level of critical thinking you have yet to master.

I'll be perfectly clear what I think of your libertarian insanity. You are the type of zealot who claims "I want to burn this village I order to save it!" Such radicals are invariably more interested in the burning than the saving. Your ideas are almost always a perfect mix of cruelty and stupidity, and you require serious professional help,

Until that happens, and I expect the response to this post to be your usual invective about how I'm a shill for our fascist overlords, stop infesting DataLounge with the rantings of a homeless lunatic or, worse, Ron Paul.

by Anonymousreply 8305/22/2014

…or rand… either way, no thanks.

by Anonymousreply 8405/22/2014

In what universe is cosmetic surgery cheap?

by Anonymousreply 8505/22/2014

[quote]The very fact that you claim "what's the harm?" if people without medical training decide to practice medicine exposes you as a blithering idiot. The occasional case where people are arrested for harming people by practicing medicine without a license demolishes your argument.

[bold]A-HA!![/bold]. That is precisely why the Libertarian Idiot Troll(TM) lives in Borneo, or Myanmar or wherever the hell he lives.

Here I foolishly assumed he was forced out of the US because of drugs or kiddie porn, but now it makes sense: he makes a living doing grossly incompetent plastic surgery in SE Asia. That's why he keeps weirdly insisting that massive malpractice by unqualified people is no big deal.

It was sitting there right in front of our faces...

by Anonymousreply 8605/22/2014

The Powers That Be manipulate the economy, gas prices, etc. like puppeteers.

Just outsmart them.

by Anonymousreply 8705/23/2014

Obama is a master of casual condescension. His true gift as an orator is in making you feel as if your misfortunes in life–losing your job, being evicted from your house, going bankrupt–are the products of your own lack of initiative or some moral failing. And then, remarkably, he entices the victims into applauding their own humiliation. That’s a kind of political prestidigitation even Reagan, with his strange power of seduction, couldn’t quite pull off.

Obama gave a jauntier talk at the NAN convention, tuning his banal homilies to the rhythms of a Jay-Z rap. You know: Uptown and sanctimonious. His mission that day was to skewer Republicans (easy enough) and offer up some rationale for Sharpton’s troops to remain loyal retainers of the Democratic Party (a more vexing challenge). In the end, he chose to present himself as a vigorous champion of the Voting Rights Act and proclaimed the election of Democrats in the midterms as the last line of defense for the franchise. The audience lapped it up, naturally. After all, he’d made a special visit just to see them.

But in the context of his presidency (or any president since LBJ, for that matter), what does the right to vote mean, if there’s no one to vote for? No one who represents your interests? No one who will speak for you? If each pull of the ballot lever simply rings up the same merciless policies?

The returns are in on the Obama economy. He saved Wall Street, bailed out the banks, declined to prosecute felonious executives and redistributed billions upward into the off-shore accounts of the mega-rich. Pretty much everyone else got the shaft. But no community has fared worse under Obama, than urban blacks. The plight of black Americans is more extreme today than when Obama assumed command. Fresh evidence of this travesty rolls in every day. On April 1, a report by the Ann Casey Foundation described the conditions of black children as being “dire,” significantly worse, in terms of health, nutrition, education and housing, than even Native American children. This bleak assessment received scant attention in the national press. -- JEFFREY ST. CLAIR

by Anonymousreply 8805/27/2014

Let's say it again --

Obama is a master of casual condescension. His true gift as an orator is in making you feel as if your misfortunes in life–losing your job, being evicted from your house, going bankrupt–are the products of your own lack of initiative or some moral failing. And then, remarkably, he entices the victims into applauding their own humiliation. That’s a kind of political prestidigitation even Reagan, with his strange power of seduction, couldn’t quite pull off.

by Anonymousreply 8905/28/2014
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