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I know, another Madonna thread but this is more of a history question: was Madonna considered beautiful when she first started?

I know that people thought she was sexy/sexual but by 80's standards, was she considered pretty or above average looks-wise? I'm curious.

by Anonymousreply 60209/24/2014

I think she was considered interesting by the masses - not ugly but not beautiful, either.

by Anonymousreply 208/06/2013

Edgy, avante guard, provocative, style icon: yes.

Beautiful: no.

Gloria Estefan and Paula Abdul were better looking.

What she didn't have in looks in the 80s, Madonna made up in being a world class entertainer.

by Anonymousreply 308/06/2013

Yes she was considered beautiful. Women everywhere copied her hair and makeup; there were shots of her face everywhere you would look, and they were all good.

by Anonymousreply 508/06/2013

The fact that she was considered fat really surprises me. She may not have been a hard body back then, but when I see pictures of her from '83-'85, she doesn't look plump at all.

by Anonymousreply 608/06/2013

She fell somewhere in between Bananarama's Karen Woodward and Thompson Twins' Jane Shorter.

She had a softer visual edge than the women of rock. Her look did play into the Art Deco/Moderne vibe of the time.

by Anonymousreply 708/06/2013

When she first started to get big I remember a lot of Joan Rivers jokes about her hairy armpits and eyebrows

by Anonymousreply 808/06/2013

Hi Janbot!

by Anonymousreply 1008/06/2013

No. Never beautiful.

She always had a nice figure (according to every straight guy I ever knew) and gave off the slut vibe which made her "hot" but nobody accused her of being beautiful.

But she was never considered "ugly", either.

by Anonymousreply 1108/06/2013

She was slutty. Het guys loved her. She's had tons of plastic surgery.

by Anonymousreply 1208/06/2013

By girls, yes. By straight men, not the majority.

by Anonymousreply 1308/06/2013

Her nose was massively wide. It's been snipped several times.

by Anonymousreply 1408/06/2013

Actually. she was not so much when she was established as she was after she had had a few hits, about the time of "True Blue." Life Magazine did a cover story on her called "A Great Love Affair: Madonna and the Camera," which was basically about how photogenic she was--which at the time was very true.

by Anonymousreply 1508/06/2013

She certainly qualified as 'pretty' in the 80s. Beautiful? Eye of the beholder...

by Anonymousreply 1608/06/2013

I was around back then and I remember when Madonna first hit the scene very well. She was never considered beautiful by anyone, but she wasn't considered unattractive either. She was pretty much attractive enough, but not a raving beauty. Her sense of style is what most people commented on, rather than her looks.

by Anonymousreply 1708/06/2013

What R1 said. And she was young then, so being a slut was a plus for her career.

I remember first seeing her video, "Lucky Star", in my art class at university, and thinking to myself, 'who did she have to have sex with in order to get a record contract, because it sure isn't because she's talented.' Nor beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 1808/06/2013

Yes and no. R3 gets it right. She was definitely considered radical, provocative, challenging, outrageous. Not so much beautiful, because that isn't what she was trying to be, it wasn't about "here's another attractive female singer we're marketing".

Anyone who really wants an idea of what Madonna was like in her prime - and her social significance then - should watch In Bed with Madonna (aka Truth or Dare).

Can't find much of In Bed with Madonna on YouTube but there's an interesting clip from a "Madonna Studies" programme on the BBC.

by Anonymousreply 1908/06/2013

When you think about it, most of the female pop stars of the 80s were not exceptionally attractive, but rather "pretty." Madonna, Lauper, Benatar, Estefan etc. Pretty girls, but not gorgeous.

The only exeptions I can think of offhand were Sade and Tina Turner. Now, those two were genuinely gorgeous.

by Anonymousreply 2008/06/2013

She has always had nice tits.

by Anonymousreply 2208/06/2013

R20 You forgot Vanity - one of the most gorgeous pop stars of not just the 80's, but of all time in pop music.

by Anonymousreply 2308/06/2013

I really appreciate the responses everyone. I kind of have a love/hate interest in Madonna but I'm really curious as to what made her an icon over everyone else. It's interesting to think about in a overall pop culture sense. I'm trying to pinpoint what it is that makes someone a cultural icon over anyone else.

by Anonymousreply 2408/06/2013

Lady Gaga, the new Queen of Pop, is far prettier:

by Anonymousreply 2508/06/2013

Oh god, how could I have forgotten Vanity? Yes, definitely. She was drop-dead gorgeous. We recently had a gigantic thread about Vanity, with some fantastic comments and anecdotes. What a stunner she was.

by Anonymousreply 2708/06/2013

What made Madonna so riveting was her sense of timing and ability to exploit cultural tensions in order to draw attention to her latest release - for example, Like A Prayer - the video featured an interracial romance which was taboo in the 80's, at least in popular culture, or Vogue, which did the same kind of thing with transgender/gay iconography (Bette Davis, and all these female divas she goes on about in the last stanza).

But her music was always very "Roses are Red, Violets are Blue, Sugar is Sweet, and So .... So are YOU!" Simple in the extreme. I don't know - maybe that accessibility is what formed part of her popular appeal.

by Anonymousreply 2808/06/2013

Actually R21, R4 is right. At the time, Madonnna was considered fat, or at least chubby. You look back and realize she wasn't, but that's how people viewed her when she first came out.

People were shocked when the Open Your Heart video came out because she was lean and "thin."

by Anonymousreply 2908/06/2013

No, Vadge was not considered beautiful by any stretch when she started. See pic from 1983 as an example.

by Anonymousreply 3008/06/2013

No, not beautiful, but some guys thought she was "hot". Whoever said "slutty" upthread was right: she had true sex appeal and clearly traded on a sort of cheap, tawdry sexpot image, but she was never a great beauty or even known for her looks. In all her iconic photos and album covers she was heavily made up and styled, had the most flattering lights and angles and extremely talented photographers behind the lens. In paparazzi photos though she just looked like another slutty EYEtalian girl with a bad dye job.

by Anonymousreply 3108/06/2013

R28

[quote]the video featured an interracial romance which was taboo in the 80's, at least in popular culture

Not to mention the burning crosses. Madonna, as much as people like to hate on her, was definitely good at one thing, creating controversy. No one did the shit she did back in the 80s/90s and it always made people "shocked."

We look back and think none of that stuff is shocking, but at the time it was. She was smart enough to always be creating a buzz. I always thought she did that Like A Prayer/Pepsi thing on purpose, just to generate more press.

by Anonymousreply 3208/06/2013

You didn't HAVE to be beautiful to qualify as a new pop star, until the 90s.

MTV changed everything. Image became everything. Most musical sensations prior to the 90s were lucky and talented, but rarely were they 'beautiful'.

by Anonymousreply 3308/06/2013

In the video for Lucky Star she rolls around and bares her midriff--fat, no, but noticeably chunky with a fleshy white belly with no muscle tone. Even in her white wedding dress routine for Like a Virgin at the MTV awards, she looks fleshier than her later looks. She did not start looking "cut" and athletic until "True Blue" was released.

by Anonymousreply 3408/06/2013

[quote]Not to mention the burning crosses. Madonna, as much as people like to hate on her, was definitely good at one thing, creating controversy. No one did the shit she did back in the 80s/90s and it always made people "shocked."

Bitch, please. Prince, Vanity, and Wendy O. Williams were doing WAY more shocking things than that copycat Vadge long before she ever did it.

LOL at these dumb queens who think Vadge invented everything.

by Anonymousreply 3508/06/2013

I vividly remember the absolute SHITSTORM the Like A Prayer video created. Pundits on Nightline were apoplectic about it. That was the good old days when pop stars would cause conservatives to go into absolute fits and parents were appalled at what their kids were listening to. There is nothing like it today.

Anyway, I clearly remember the black Jesus and Madonna's interracial flirtation with the black Jesus in the video being the focal point of the controversy. People were shocked at that more than anything else.

by Anonymousreply 3608/06/2013

The layered clothing created one horizontal line after the next that "cut up" her body and created the illusion that she was chubby, but she was not. If she'd been wearing solid colors with an emphasis on the vertical, she would have looked as thin as she really was.

by Anonymousreply 3708/06/2013

R32, exactly.

R33, true - for example, Romeo Void - remember "Never Say Never" ("I might like you better if we slept together")? The lyrics were very gutter and exciting, but recently, I saw a picture of their lead vocalist, and couldn't stop laughing - she was Mama Cass fat; talented, yes, but very fat, but if you didn't have a video to go by, just the music, then it didn't matter if you were pretty or ugly or thin or fat - you just had to be able to sing or play instruments/percussion.

by Anonymousreply 3808/06/2013

R33, you're talking about the 80s, and whether you realize it or not, Madonna was a big part of the change in focus from talent to looks for new pop stars. Madonna was photogenic and a natural in front of the cameras, so she was perfect for the music video era (which started in the 80s, not the 90s).

by Anonymousreply 3908/06/2013

r33, MTV launched in 1981. Video killed the radio star.

by Anonymousreply 4008/06/2013

I thought Madonna was really pretty in the Burning Up and Like A Virgin videos...she had a sexy body then. Now, she's looks too thin and muscular.

by Anonymousreply 4108/06/2013

R35

Youre a complete idiot if youre trying to say that Madonna wasn't shocking people with that shit. And PS no one was paying attention to Vanity or Wendy O. Neither of them had the audience Madonna did.

.

by Anonymousreply 4208/06/2013

R39, I said BEFORE the 90s...my point being that BY THE TIME the 90s rolled around, it was the norm to have beautiful people as pop stars - see all the boy bands, Britney et al.

R40, yes we all know this. It took many years for the effect to solidify. Many 80s artists (as has been mentioned a la Madge, Cyndi, etc.) were not model gorgeous by today's standards, and it didn't matter in 1981, and really not until many years later when the effect took hold.

I don't think my point is that controversial or disputable. lol.

by Anonymousreply 4408/06/2013

OP, look at the attached photo. Madonna was considered very pretty, sexy, fuckable.

by Anonymousreply 4508/06/2013

So Prince, Vanity and Wendy O were making out with Black Jesuses and burning crosses in their videos?

Didn't think so.

by Anonymousreply 4608/06/2013

Well, Prince wore the ass-less pants and didn't Wendy O masturbate on stage and wear her tits out?

by Anonymousreply 4708/06/2013

Prince, Vanity, and Wendy O weren't being marketed to white tweens, R46.

Oh, and Wendy O wore black electrical tape on her nipples, R47 - 'cause she was Klassy like that.

by Anonymousreply 4808/06/2013

R48

That was my point. No one's saying Prince, Vanity and Wendy O weren't shocking, but to say Madonna wasn't shocking people with what she did was stupid.

by Anonymousreply 4908/06/2013

Ya'll are gonna be condemmed to Hell when you die to listen to Janet Jackson and GaGa for eternity.

by Anonymousreply 5008/06/2013

Everyone else has moved on from Madonna, ka-weens.

by Anonymousreply 5108/06/2013

Oh, please. Madonna threads are some of the most commented on DL. Hell, every time I look at my Thread Watcher there's new posts in this thread alone.

by Anonymousreply 5208/06/2013

[quote] Ya'll are gonna be condemmed to Hell when you die to listen to Janet Jackson and GaGa for eternity.

(((earth shakes)))

(((JANBOT appears!)))

by Anonymousreply 5308/06/2013

Madonna was controversial and mainstream. Romeo Void- love them- was not.

The camera loves her, she is an attractive woman but no great beauty. Compare her to her contemporaries in film or fashion. She doesn't really register.

by Anonymousreply 5408/06/2013

nah she is alright

by Anonymousreply 5508/06/2013

Wendy O. Williams was virtually unknown outside of her minuscule fanbase. She was too far out of the mainstream. Yes, she was shocking, but she got no radio or MTV exposure and never had a hit record .

by Anonymousreply 5608/06/2013

Lord have Mercy

by Anonymousreply 5708/06/2013

[quote]Prince, Vanity, and Wendy O weren't being marketed to white tweens, [R46].

And they weren't sponsored by Pepsi, either.

by Anonymousreply 5808/06/2013

[quote]Anyway, I clearly remember the black Jesus and Madonna's interracial flirtation with the black Jesus in the video being the focal point of the controversy

Leon Robinson (COOL RUNNINGS, WAITING TO EXHALE) played the "black Jesus."

From what I recall as a kid in the '80s, teen in the '90s, is that Madonna was considered sexy, more so in the early '90s than before or after. By this point, she had lost the baby fat from early in her career and now was toned/fit and was sporting a Monroe-esque look (i.e. short, wavy blonde hair, beauty mark) and had better makeup and no bushy eyebrows. My older sisters male friends would comment about "hitting/tapping that" and so on. Her Blond Ambition tour (1990) and her EROTICA album and SEX book (both 1992) also cemented her sexy image although it quickly turned into a slutty image. I remember there was a backlash. From '93 on (at least until 1996 with the birth of her daughter) her reputation was that of a nymphomaniac/dominatrix type. This is why Argentineans bemoaned the casting of her as their saintly Evita.

by Anonymousreply 5908/06/2013

Vadge was never a beauty and she wasn't considered to be one when she first started. Her initial image was street chic and would flirt between trashy and cutesy with her look. It wasn't until her third album that she became more toned and went glam by mimicking old hollywood stars that some of the idiot pop fan base thought of Vadge as "beautiful". Vadge quickly learned that to be viewed a certain way, you had to believe it yourself and market yourself confidently. She started acting like a glam sexpot and from the mid 80s to the early 90s, much of the sheep aka public bought into it.

There were plenty of beautiful 80s stars, such as Vanity, Sheena Easton, Whitney Houston, even Paula Abdul. Vadge was always jealous of them.

by Anonymousreply 6008/06/2013

R2 and R3 nail it. She was considered a whole bunch of things - sexy, interesting, weird, cool, etc., but not beautiful. Granted, she wasn't considered "ugly" or anything either.

by Anonymousreply 6108/06/2013

Wendy O. Williams (RIP) was a fringe/niche artist who was pretty much unkown to mainstream audiences.

Vanity, as fabulous and fierce as she was, was never a megastar like Madonna so she didn't get the media attention. Too bad, because Vanity was the shit and I loved her.

by Anonymousreply 6208/06/2013

"Thompson Twins' Jane Shorter."

Do you mean Alannah Currie? Jane Shorter was just a horn player early on, Alannah is the female member of the band most identified with TT.

by Anonymousreply 6308/06/2013

Madonna came in at the tail end of New Wave when a lot of the hipper female pop stars had fairly eccentric stage personas (e.g. Lene Lovich, Kate Bush, Nina Hagen) and were going for performance arty rather than fashion magazine hot. I think Madonna always maintained a bit of that shock value edge and Lady Gaga has become more fully immersed in it.

Pop music shouldn't be a beauty pageant. It's about music and entertainment.

by Anonymousreply 6408/06/2013

Well, today Pop music is a beauty pageant. In the 80s there were Pop stars who just happened to be beautiful while today it is a requirement.

by Anonymousreply 6508/06/2013

Nobody really talked about her as beautiful until TRUE BLUE when she bleached her hair. There were always the Marilyn comparisons because of the 'Material Girl' video, but I thought when she went white blonde like that she resembled Lana Turner.

R28, I think the simplicity of her lyrics has definitely been part of her appeal. It makes them universal and easily remembered. Even the inane ones (and there are many) are hard to forget.

by Anonymousreply 6608/06/2013

You're right, R63. Thanks.

by Anonymousreply 6708/06/2013

That dirty bitch knew what to do with the stroke of my Penn.

by Anonymousreply 6808/06/2013

Paula Abdul was borderline homely (and fat) and Sheena Easton looked like a soccer mom. Neither one of them could be called beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 6908/06/2013

I think what most people are trying to say is she was considered very attractive, hot, etc. Which she was. But she wasn't considered a great beauty.

Not that it mattered because, especially as her fame grew, the media was fixated on her ability to change her image and the controversy she generated. She was hot, physically and career-wise. As hot as a star got for a good long run.

by Anonymousreply 7008/06/2013

[quote][R39], I said BEFORE the 90s...my point being that BY THE TIME the 90s rolled around, it was the norm to have beautiful people as pop stars - see all the boy bands, Britney et al.

They became the norm in 1999. That which you speak was a staple in the 2000s, the decade of the Britneys.

by Anonymousreply 7108/06/2013

Since Madonna never possessed inner beauty, she is a woefully ugly woman. Her personality makes her grotesque.

by Anonymousreply 7208/06/2013

[quote]Paula Abdul was borderline homely (and fat)

This is true. And never fatter than in her Promise of a New Day video and her Vibeology performance on the VMAs, which basically killed her career.

by Anonymousreply 7308/06/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 7408/06/2013

When she came on the scene, straight guys found her hot and straight girls wanted to be her. It wasn't until the True Blue period that gays wanted to be her.

I don't understand how anybody says she wasn't beautiful. She had the most striking eyes and luminous skin with a classic Romantic face and her figure was voluptuous and healthy-looking. She personified sex. Her body at that time was the best it's ever been other than the Evita period when she was pregnant.

She said herself that critics at the time of the Virgin period labeling her "fat" propelled her to work out like crazy. It became a mania for her after that. For a self-confident person, she contradicted that by letting people's opinions influence her insecurities.

by Anonymousreply 7508/06/2013

r66, I remember that Vanity Fair cover she appeared on when True Blue was released. It was truly a portrait of a unique and striking classic beauty.

by Anonymousreply 7608/06/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 7708/06/2013

She was sexy and sort of wild and unconventional. Her looks were passable, but then so were her vocals, dancing, songwriting and acting. But somehow it was enough to propel her to stardom. Never beautiful, but never ugly.

by Anonymousreply 7808/06/2013

I don't think Madonna was ever regarded as beautiful. That's because she wasn't! Look at pictures of her when she was young; her looks were average, at best. But she did her damndest to be "sexy" and eventually that's how her fans came to see her.

When I was in college I heard several guys comment on Madonna's looks. Not one straight guy thought she was good-looking. Only gay men found her attractive.

by Anonymousreply 7908/06/2013

[quote]Pop music shouldn't be a beauty pageant. It's about music and entertainment.

That's so true. It is about talent and soul, not superficial things like beauty.

by Anonymousreply 8008/06/2013

"When she came on the scene, straight guys found her hot and straight girls wanted to be her."

When I was in college (that's the age group she was pandering to back then) I never knew any straight girl who wanted to "be" Madonna. And I never knew any straight guy who found her "hot." The only people I knew who thought she was sexy or hot in any way were gay guys.

by Anonymousreply 8108/06/2013

[quote]I don't understand how anybody says she wasn't beautiful.

A lot of us are NOT trying to insult her, just telling it like it was. Yes, I'm sure some people thought she was beautiful, but OP was asking how Madonna was "considered". And, looking back to how she was written about, what was regarded in terms of her looks, it certainly wasn't pure beauty.

Again, she wasn't considered ugly or anything, but she wasn't known for her "beauty".

by Anonymousreply 8208/06/2013

I guess that puts to rest any notion that Madonna got to where she is based on her looks. Prettier pop stars haven been left in her trail, but she remains.

by Anonymousreply 8308/06/2013

No, not really.

by Anonymousreply 8408/06/2013

how can anyone say Paula Abdul is "borderline homely"? She is a pretty woman. Here she is in high school before all the best hollywood hair and makeup techniques were available to her:

by Anonymousreply 8508/06/2013

Sheena Easton was a beauty too and also a much better singer than Vadge:

by Anonymousreply 8608/06/2013

and here is Vadge, peak of fame and styling (aka rip off) but a candid pic. Who the fuck, other than the tasteless sector within the gay community, can find THIS beautiful in any way?

by Anonymousreply 8708/06/2013

Wow! What a mess.

by Anonymousreply 8808/06/2013

I disagree that music today is all about looks. Lady Gaga is not attractive, while Ke$ha has neither looks nor talent. Adele is kind of pretty but a fat ass. Shitney Spears was never beautiful-just cute-ish at her peak and now looks like an average white 40 year old.

Here's Vadge in his street trash/chic/greasy days looking almost drag queeny:

by Anonymousreply 8908/06/2013

I thought she was very attractive and hot, especially in the mid 80s. Her peak when she first appeared, but a few years later, such as in Papa Don't Preach.

I also thought she looked best with the little extra weight.

by Anonymousreply 9008/06/2013

Sheena was gorgeous! As was and is Susanna Hoffs.

by Anonymousreply 9108/06/2013

I'm not a huge Madonna fan, but I can think of several times in her videos where I thought she was breathtaking beautiful. Probably the makeup/styling helped, but think of: Rain (her super short black hair, those beautiful blue eyes), Human Nature (showing her perfect, symmetrical face with the black braids), Vogue (looked super hot). I definitely don't think she would've gone as far if she wasn't as attractive as she is. She's basically a glorified Vegas show girl who had acting aspirations.

by Anonymousreply 9208/06/2013

"I don't understand how anybody says she wasn't beautiful"

Beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder. But by no stretch of the imagination could it rightly be assumed that Madonna was ever beautiful. When I think of beautiful women, women who were NATURALLY beautiful, I think of Elizabeth Taylor, Grace Kelly, Louise Brooks, Greta Garbo, Ava Gardner, Sharon Tate, Catherine Deneuve, Jacqueline Bisset...their faces were gorgeous. And Madonna? She was, always, was ordinary in looks. Plain. Nothing.

by Anonymousreply 9308/06/2013

89 posts in a couple hours. Once again the masses have proved that Madonna is still relevant.

Nobody does it better than Madonna. Nobody.

by Anonymousreply 9408/06/2013

sexual.....not really ever beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 9508/06/2013

How they thought in the 1980s:

Madonna was hot.

Kim Basinger was beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 9608/06/2013

She was incredibly striking in her youth. Maybe not beautiful in a traditional sense, but there was an exotic and unique quality to her features, and the way she used them for her image, that was utterly unique to her.

by Anonymousreply 9708/06/2013

yes r97 but the stuff people said about her was more along the lines of sexy, alluring, hot.....while many may have thought her beautiful.....that wasn't how society labeled her.

by Anonymousreply 9808/06/2013

Here

by Anonymousreply 9908/06/2013

Her money is beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 10008/06/2013

r87, that is late 80s after the True Blue plantinum blonde mode during the Who's That Girl? phase - that look was to recapture Hollywood golden days glamour updated to a postmod fashion statement.

I'm talking Borderline/Lucky Star/Desperately Seeking Susan/Virgin Tour Madonna. I remember guys in my high school during that time all talking about how they wanted to fuck her. Girls were dressing like her. I remember hating her guts. It wasn't until the True Blue album that I actually started to like her and then became a big fan. The Papa Don't Preach video was a fucking revelation to me.

by Anonymousreply 10108/06/2013

With the right makeup, lighting, and a magician of a photographer, Madonna could sometimes be above-average in looks.

by Anonymousreply 10208/06/2013

r102, that was from the Francesco Scavullo shoot. He called her the "baby Dietrich".

by Anonymousreply 10308/06/2013

That brilliant 1986 Vanity Fair cover. My very straight father was intrigued by it - one time, I found it in his bedroom by his bed.

by Anonymousreply 10408/06/2013

not beautiful but that she pressed all the right buttons.

by Anonymousreply 10508/06/2013

With the right lighting and makeup, Vadge could hide her flaws. Otherwise we have this:

by Anonymousreply 10608/06/2013

Those eyebrows. Jay-sus.

by Anonymousreply 10708/06/2013

Caterpillars attacking her face.

by Anonymousreply 10808/06/2013

UGH!!!! the question is not whether she was beautiful. The question is was she considered beautiful....and they answer is no. She didn't even aspire to that. She was off-beat, unique, even slutty at times but she was not famous for her perfect features and pretty look.

by Anonymousreply 10908/06/2013

Sheena Easton and Vanity were unquestionably the hottest,most beautiful and sexiest singers of the 80's. And Sheena could actually SING so to me that gives her the edge.

by Anonymousreply 11008/06/2013

I agree R110.

Even before her mid-80s makeover Sheena Easton always had the most perfect, beautiful face.

Olivia Newton John and Whitney Houston were also beautiful but never projected the sexuality that Sheena did.

by Anonymousreply 11108/06/2013

R111 why are you agreeing with yourself at R110?

Oh, cause it really wasn't unquestionable, was it?

by Anonymousreply 11208/06/2013

Madonna made a slightly chubby belly look sexy.

by Anonymousreply 11308/06/2013

Why is she called Vadge?

by Anonymousreply 11408/06/2013

Come to think of it, most of the 80s ladies of Vadge's age group were prettier (some much more beautiful) than her. She really was a slightly above average girl who relied on certain makeup, hair styling, clothes, angles and lighting to make her look halfway decent.

by Anonymousreply 11508/06/2013

R114, it's a roundabout way of calling her a "cunt." Madonna's nickname in the press has been Madge, so posters who hate her here began calling her Vadge, which is short for Vagina.

by Anonymousreply 11608/06/2013

[quote]When I was in college (that's the age group she was pandering to back then) I never knew any straight girl who wanted to "be" Madonna. And I never knew any straight guy who found her "hot." The only people I knew who thought she was sexy or hot in any way were gay guys.

I never experienced straight guys obsessing over her other than "yeah, I'd fuck her" dismissively, but I definitely remember when her audience was straight girls, not gay men (or, at least, both). Before she ever entered my life as a gay man, I knew Madonna solely through my older sister and all of her friends who bought all the albums, talked about her, and dressed like her to varying degrees. I grew up in a fairly small town, so maybe in bigger cities it was more of a gay men-straight women combo from the beginning, but at least to start, where I grew up, Madonna really was a straight girl thing for a while, and then later became huge amongst gays.

by Anonymousreply 11708/06/2013

I think she looked her most beautiful in EVITA> The 1940s couture and makeup really suited her.

by Anonymousreply 11808/06/2013

R118 - You're right. If you squint, she looks like Grace Kelly.

by Anonymousreply 11908/06/2013

I have to agree with that.

by Anonymousreply 12008/06/2013

Madonna was never much of a looker, but she looked her best between '94-'97, the Bedtime Stories/Something To Remember/Evita years. She looks best with straight hair.

by Anonymousreply 12108/06/2013

I have to laugh at the person who kept mentioning Sheena "My Baby Takes The Morning Train" Easton as a performer of any note, of ANY note at all.

by Anonymousreply 12208/06/2013

I was around back then. Madonna was never beautiful and that word was never used to describe in the pop magazines. Janet Jackson was considered beautiful and many boys had her posters. And I remember there was shock that a woman with Whitney Houston's looks could actually sound like that.

by Anonymousreply 12308/07/2013

If Madonna was considered chubby for having some baby fat, what was Janet called then? She was practically obese by comparison around the same time (mid-'80s).

by Anonymousreply 12408/07/2013

Janet was considered a great beauty....Whitney was though.

by Anonymousreply 12508/07/2013

oops make that Janet was not....

by Anonymousreply 12608/07/2013

[quote]If Madonna was considered chubby for having some baby fat, what was Janet called then? She was practically obese by comparison around the same time (mid-'80s).

Janet was considered fat in the 80s and then chubby in the early 90s. Everyone was shocked when unveiled her slimmer/toned body in Love Will Never Do.

by Anonymousreply 12708/07/2013

Wait - what????? Someone actually said this?

"Gloria Estefan and Paula Abdul were better looking."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

You;re high

by Anonymousreply 12808/07/2013

r125. More like Janet was the stuff of young boys' fantasies. Whitney was a classic beauty.

by Anonymousreply 12908/07/2013

JaNET ALWAYS HAD KIND ON AN ASEXUAL VIBE

by Anonymousreply 13008/07/2013

Actually straight teenage boys LOVED Madonna at least until the early 90s, my straight older teenage male cousin was the one who got me into her around 1985, our family were having a barbeque at his house and I had to go to the bathroom so I wondered in his room and he had all these posters up of Madonna and magazines on his bed like the teen mags, People, Rolling Stone, Spin, TV Guide, Time (with the cover headline Madonna-Why She's Hot) and even Black Beat (!) with Madonna on the cover.

I asked him who was that girl and he told me "That's Madonna, she's hot and I'm gonna marry her".

Nowadays I always joke with him that he was the one that got me into her

He's still a fan and went with his wife to see the MDNA TOUR last year, although I'm sure he no longer thinks she's hot.

by Anonymousreply 13108/07/2013

Young Whitney was beautiful. Janet kept her looks much longer.

by Anonymousreply 13208/07/2013

R132 a crack pipe addiction will do that to your looks.

Now about Madonna, anyone who says that she wasn't considered at least "hot" to horny straight teenage boys (and older men) at least up until the early 90s (SEX book) is downright delusional

I work with older straight guys in their 40s and 50s and when they find out I'm a Madonna fan, the first words out of their mouths are usually "she was smoking back in the day" or "I still have her Playboy and Penthouse covers".

I know to straight guys in their early 40s, who went with a bunch of their friends to see the Virgin Tour in '85

One guy told me that the audience was OVERWHELMING teenagers and that almost all the girls were dressed in "the Madonna look" and all the teenage boys were in groups, and that it was a 50/50 audience split between teen girls and boys

by Anonymousreply 13508/07/2013

how about...NO!

by Anonymousreply 13608/07/2013

R136 actually Madonna looks naturally pretty in that pic, that was the Like a Prayer era.

by Anonymousreply 13708/07/2013

R135 didn't the Beastie Boys open for her on that first tour? That would explain the boys in the audience.

by Anonymousreply 13808/07/2013

r135. You're lying. Find one link, video or magazine article, where Madonna is seriously described as 'beautiful". I bet they're few and far between because no one would do that with a straight face.

by Anonymousreply 13908/07/2013

OP considers this "a history question"?

Good grief.

by Anonymousreply 14008/07/2013

She was never described as beautiful and neither was Janet! You fanbots are freakin' nuts.

by Anonymousreply 14108/07/2013

R138 &R139 I never said Madonna was considered classically beautiful, I said a lot of young guys considered her hot, sexy,or fuckable

One of the reasons that a lot of teenage girls started dressing like her was too get male attention because a lot of guys thought Madonna was hot, so their logic was why not copy her, maybe guys will find me hot too

There was an episode of 227, where Brenda likes Calvin but Calvin only saw her as a friend.

To get his attention, Sandra suggested to Brenda to get Makeover and dress up like Madonna , Brenda does and soon Calvin is in love with her and asks her out.

There was a Growing Pains episode from season 1 where Mike Seaver is obssesed with Madonna and dreams that his new girlfriend(played by Dana Plato) dresses up like her

The episode was titled "Mike's Madonna Fantasy".

The Beastie's were COMPLETLY UNKOWN at the time, Madonna knew them from the early 80s Danceteria scene and offered them an opening slot on her tour, after the tour completed the Beastie's signed a contract and became famous over a year later.

In the small amount of reviews that mentioned the Beastie's on her Virgin Tour, most music critics referred to them as "some white rap group" THEY didn't even know who they were.

by Anonymousreply 14208/07/2013

R138 &R139 I never said Madonna was considered classically beautiful, I said a lot of young guys considered her hot, sexy,or fuckable

One of the reasons that a lot of teenage girls started dressing like her was too get male attention because a lot of guys thought Madonna was hot, so their logic was why not copy her, maybe guys will find me hot too

There was an episode of 227, where Brenda likes Calvin but Calvin only saw her as a friend.

To get his attention, Sandra suggested to Brenda to get Makeover and dress up like Madonna , Brenda does and soon Calvin is in love with her and asks her out.

There was a Growing Pains episode from season 1 where Mike Seaver is obssesed with Madonna and dreams that his new girlfriend(played by Dana Plato) dresses up like her

The episode was titled "Mike's Madonna Fantasy".

The Beastie's were COMPLETLY UNKOWN at the time, Madonna knew them from the early 80s Danceteria scene and offered them an opening slot on her tour, after the tour completed the Beastie's signed a contract and became famous over a year later.

In the small amount of reviews that mentioned the Beastie's on her Virgin Tour, most music critics referred to them as "some white rap group" THEY didn't even know who they were.

by Anonymousreply 14308/07/2013

Billboard has named Madonna as the top solo artist in the publication's history. Only The Beatles came ahead of her among all artists.

by Anonymousreply 14408/07/2013

R144 I mentioned this in another post, it's based off of singles success on the Billboard Hot 100

It's great that she's #2 and the most successful solo act but if you looked at her worldwide numbers they're amazing

On the United World Chart Madonna has more global #1 songs than any artist in history with 22.

In Canada Madonna has more #1 songs than any artist in history (24)

Last month Australia had an anniversary of their ARIA charts, where it was revealed that Madonna is the most successful artist in the history of Australia

Madonna is of course the 3rd biggest selling artist of all time in Europe, behind the Beatles and Queen and ahead of MJ and Elvis over there.

Basically every country with a chart system, she's either the #1 selling female of all time or #2(In France she's #2 behind Celine)

She truly is the most famous, or one of, women in the world

A GLOBAL force that pop music will never see again

by Anonymousreply 14508/07/2013

She's famous like Rihanna is famous. Without the product to back it up. She's a pop singer who was never the best singer.

by Anonymousreply 14608/07/2013

R146 Madonna'a back catalogue is unbeatable even without having the best voice and her cultural significance has even eclipsed that if the Beatles, 5 years ago CNN wrote an article stating this.

While Rihanna is pretty famous and she idolizes Madonna, her global fame and influence is nowhere close to Madonna level, there are older people ib my family who have NO IDEA who Rihanna is

Rolling Stone said it best about Madonna. They said along with Princess Di and Marilyn Monroe, Madonna is the most famous, scrutinezed and discussed female of the past 100 years.

In 2010 TIME magazine named Madonna one of the 25 most powrrful, influential and important women of the last century.

by Anonymousreply 14708/07/2013

Janet was the only one to eat the whole Nutrisystem while wearing a headset.

by Anonymousreply 14808/07/2013

R146 how anybody can claim that Madonna doesn't have the product to back it up is downright hilarious

Madonna is one of the most critically acclaimed artists out there, yes critics take potshots at her sexy youth obsession, but when she delivers the goods the critics love her

Many of her albums have gotten good to excellent reviews according to Metacritic and she has delivered to bonafide masterpieces with Like a Prayer and Ray of Light

She has the best video catalogue of any artist, and aside from the critical acclaim her videos receive, has won more Video Music Awards than any artist

And her concert tours are spectacular with Rolling Stone not only naming the Blond Ambition tour the best tour of 1990, but also the best tour of the 90s decade. Q magazine also named Blond Ambition on it's list of the 10 greatest concerts of all time

Just last week Rolling Stone magazine said Madonna was the best live performer in pop in 2013.

Whitney had the voice, but her actual albums never received the acclaim that Madonna's albums did, also her videos were always bland and boring

As for touring, again bland and boring with no concept or theme or storyline like Madonna has

Seriously name ONE iconic moment from a Whitney video or concert that sticks out? You can't

Madonna on the othet hand...

by Anonymousreply 14908/07/2013

wow Vadgebotstan is going crazy on the last 2 pages. What the fuck gurl? Vadge was never beautiful. She's slightly above average. With a nose like that, you can't be beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 15008/07/2013

R150 first off I'm a dude so don't call me girl, secondly a never said Madonna was or ever considered beautiful, I said she was considered hot and fuckable to a lot of straight guys in the 80s and 90s.

by Anonymousreply 15108/07/2013

She started that whole drizzled bangs and big hair look in Desperately Seeking Susan. Every 12 year old girl ran out and bought tons of hair spray and gel and wore their hair in a drizzled mess for the next 10-15 years.

by Anonymousreply 15208/07/2013

Love her or hate her, there's probably never going to be another big popstar like Madonna. I don't think it's possible in the Internet Age. It's too easy to spread info, tear people down, and find out who you ripped off. Plus, there's nothing shocking or outrageous that people haven't seen yet.

by Anonymousreply 15308/07/2013

.

by Anonymousreply 15408/07/2013

r153 is right. I'd also add that the internet provides so much information that people just become disinterested that much sooner. It's not like your average pop singer is some kind of sphinx to begin with.

by Anonymousreply 15508/07/2013

And she still was never beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 15608/07/2013

I would gladly trade beauty for $650,000,000+ and global fame.

by Anonymousreply 15708/07/2013

R158 racist much?

by Anonymousreply 15908/07/2013

She was never considered beautiful, she was too much of an attention whore for that. Consider, if Madonna were beautiful she wouldn't have had to assimilate the iconography of past celebrities. She would've made a unique impression of her own. Instead, she had to dress up like Marilyn Monroe so people would think she was sexy.

And for a while, Janet was fat and looked squat and dumpy in her black turtlenecks and blazers. And that microphone was just a prop, wasn't it?

by Anonymousreply 16008/07/2013

How is a description of a stereotypical southern Italian woman "racism"? Italians do not constitute our own race, you stupid fuckwit.

by Anonymousreply 16108/07/2013

NEVER FORGET:

FARTPLOP

by Anonymousreply 16208/07/2013

I think Janet has a weird nose. I saw a clip of her perform on a show before she damaged her nose and she looked a lot better. I'd say cute, pretty. She looked better than Madonna but I wouldn't say beautiful. Whitney was a sophisticated looking beauty.

by Anonymousreply 16308/07/2013

R160 but didn't Monroe copy Jean Harlow with the whole blonde bombshell things in the 50s? And Debbie Harry also copied Monroe

Madonna may have paid homage to Monroe, but Madonna had her own unique style from 83-85, that's basically what this thread is about

by Anonymousreply 16408/07/2013

Meh. The women who are considered beautiful in the entertainment industry have all had plastic surgery. Madonna always "rocked what she got"... good for her.

by Anonymousreply 16508/07/2013

I think that Madonna synthesized several classic styles to create her own "True Blue" look (her most iconic, IMHO). She doesn't look exactly like Harlow or Munrow, but you can see how she borrowed elements from both.

by Anonymousreply 16608/07/2013

Madonna was infinitely more assertive than either Harlow or Monroe, which was what made it remarkable at the time. She didn't settle for being a sexpot or pendant for a man, she maintained a very strong, independent image and worked really hard (I've not been a fan of hers for some time, but can't ever deny she worked her ass off). She basically took the blonde bombshell look and combined it with a much more modern attitude, in a way that seemed unusual even while there were clearly predecessors (Grace Slick to a certain degree, Debbie Harry, even Stevie Nicks).

by Anonymousreply 16708/07/2013

Stevie "Hey! Look at ME! I'm a Witch!!" Nicks?

Her career was a mistake.

by Anonymousreply 16808/07/2013

R168 = Christine McVie

by Anonymousreply 16908/07/2013

R149 Madonna queens are insufferable.

by Anonymousreply 17008/07/2013

Rolling Stone and Playboy magazine always had annual "readers polls" and they had the category of "Sexiest Female Artist" and Madonna would win practically every year until the mid 90s

Straight guys loved her too back in the day.

by Anonymousreply 17108/07/2013

JANBOT queens use words like "insufferable".

by Anonymousreply 17208/07/2013

There's a difference between "beautiful" and "sexy." True, Madonna was never deemed a great beauty, but she was considered sexy by many a straight man in her heyday. Those who argue this point are revising history or have a lapse in memory.

.

by Anonymousreply 17308/07/2013

R25, get thee to a doctor! I just learned that GaGa is also an Italian/French Canadian mix like Madonna. Luckily for Madonna, she got the F.C. genes in the looks department. GaGa took on more of an Italian tone which works great for males, not the women usually. Madonna's wide nose and too short top lip takes her out of the beautiful category. She's since had work done to remove it. Cheek implants to appear more northern European. Beyonce's mom is part French Candian or Acadian. The most beautiful/interesting looking people I have ever seen in the world was up in the Quebec region. Hit a gay bar up in Quebec City area and you won't know who to look at first.

by Anonymousreply 17408/07/2013

Damn, these Madonna threads don't quit, do they?

by Anonymousreply 17508/07/2013

I don't understand why everyone keeps bringing up Madge's 'wide' nose. Her nose is fine and appears to be the only thing she hasn't messed up with surgery.

by Anonymousreply 17608/07/2013

Interesting. Thinking back to Madonna using Marilyn's iconic imagery in "Material Girl," got me thinking about how at the time, the movie she was paying homage to was about 30 years old. And now? The Material Girl video is about 30 years old.

Time flies.

by Anonymousreply 17708/07/2013

Being of French Canadian descent or at least having ancestors that came from the Eastern part of Canada (i.e. settlers in New Brunswick) seems like a very strict Illuminati requirement for pop music superstardom. Bizarre but true. Check the facts - almost all pop stars that sell lots of records have this in their background: Celine, Beyonce, Madonna, Gaga, Gwen Stefani, Shania, Britney (ancestors came to Louisiana via Canada), etc.

by Anonymousreply 17808/07/2013

Madonna has always been considered a talentless fuggo who blew her way to the top by anyone with half a brain.

by Anonymousreply 17908/07/2013

R180= Lady Gaga after Madonna had Gags removed from her property for stalking and acting all Single White Female on her

by Anonymousreply 18008/07/2013

She was thought sexy.

[quote] She didn't settle for being a sexpot or pendant for a man

Yes she did. She famously wore a belt that said "BoyToy" on her second album, the one that confirmed her status as a big star. It was a huge part of her image.

Madonna shattered the previous cultural mold/image of sexy woman as a powerless plaything and passive object of desire for men (ie Marilyn Monroe). Madonna was, according to the narrative being sold, a strong woman who CHOSE to become the plaything and object of desire for men, thereby empowering herself. She CHOSE to dress and act like a whore (feminists up until that time had argues that this was how women were disempowered). That was the cultural switcheroo that helped attract so much attention. Her early image was mos def as a sexpot and a pendant for men, albeit one who was made powerful by it.

by Anonymousreply 18108/07/2013

R182 true, Madonna was criticized a lot in her early career for pandering to "straight male fantasy"

Madonna's huge album sales were attributed to the fact that because she was "sexy" she also appealed to horny young men, who wouldn't be caught dead buying a Cyndi Lauper album, but happily bought Madonna's early albums.

by Anonymousreply 18208/07/2013

Madge was considered kinda trashy but trendsetting when she debuted (1982-84) and I distinctly remember the younger teenage girls in my last year of high school dressing up in her style. When I entered college in the fall of 1985, there were twentysomething fellow students dressing up as her (fried out bottle blonde hair, big bows, bangles). She didn't really transform the "slutty" into "sexy" until the "Open Your Heart" video, which was quite risque for its time (very tame and PG now).

By the way, a female Village Voice music columnist expressed some dismay at Madge for the "Like A Virgin" line "your love thawed out what was scared and cold". She wrote: "How can a woman describe her sexuality like a cheesecake"?

by Anonymousreply 18308/07/2013

Girls thought she was prettier than men did, but to say she was not attractive is ridiculous. She was not beautiful, but definitely pretty. She had amazing piercing eye, good bone structure, and a cute figure with big boobs, she was hot in her 20's & early 30's.

Madonna started ruining her looks when she went too far with the androgynous look & started bulking up until she lost her feminine figure completely, and developed a masculine build. She has done way too much facial reconstruction, & has bulked up even more, she looks like a shemale now.

I think she would have aged nicely if she was not so hell bent on staying "hot" & "relevant" & making an ass out of herself.

by Anonymousreply 18408/07/2013

Not beautiful, but available aka easy is what people thought of her. Some also said "desperate". Vadge just looks so awkward here:

by Anonymousreply 18508/07/2013

Actually that's one of my favorite shots of her R186

by Anonymousreply 18608/07/2013

R186, you are truly a gay man. I'd fuck it!

by Anonymousreply 18708/07/2013

Despite your rant r149. Madonna's primary occupation is "pop singer"; and it's universally agreed she isn't much better than your annoying sister singing in the shower. She's a pop singer who can't sing. No fishing for "critical acclaim" from the entertainment complex will change that.

And why are you bringing Whitney Houston and iconic video imagery into this? She was a singer who had the voice and singing ability to back it up. She made it based on pure talent, not the gimmicks you keep bringing up.

As for the subject at hand, Madonna was never beautiful. She put a lot of effort into her appearance just like she did her singing, dancing and acting but was never good. The one people agree she's good at is marketing herself.

by Anonymousreply 18808/07/2013

R189 Whitney could sing and she had an amazing voice, but she ruined it all due to drug abuse

But Whitney does not have more talent then Madonna, all she was was a vocalist for hire and Clive Davis' puppet, she never wrote or produced a song in her life, never danced and never played instruments and a lot of her big hits were cover songs by other artists. Madonna DOES all the above

Madonna CREATED everything she has achieved through strength, determination, drive and vision.

She is a performance artist at heart not a pop Singer

by Anonymousreply 18908/07/2013

Whitney was a far better singer than Madonna. Neither was much of a writer.

by Anonymousreply 19008/08/2013

R190 the music establishment knows this as well, Whitney never had the critical acclaim that Madonna has received

I've read numerous lists from music critics on the best albums, singles,tours and music videos of all time

Madonna is ALWAYS included, the big voiced singers like Whiney, Celine and Mariah are almost never included.

Entertainment Weekly just had a list of the 100 Greatest Albums of all-time, Madonna ranked at #43, the above 3 mentioned were nowhere to be found

And just having a great voice doesn't equal talent, if that was the case the Beatles would be called untalented hacks as Paul McCartney himself has said that him and Lennon never had really good voices.

by Anonymousreply 19108/08/2013

R191 Whitney never wrote a song in her life, Madonna writes and produces at least 90% of her material

Madonna has wriiten her share of bubblegum pop fluff, as have the Beatles and MJ, but she's also written some brilliant songs like Live To Tell, Oh Father and What It Feels Like For a Girl

by Anonymousreply 19208/08/2013

[quote]Whitney could sing and she had an amazing voice, but she ruined it all due to drug abuse

So did Billie Holiday. Your point? They're still known for their out-of-this-world talent.

[quote]But Whitney does not have more talent then Madonna, all she was was a vocalist for hire and Clive Davis' puppet, she never wrote or produced a song in her life, never danced and never played instruments and a lot of her big hits were cover songs by other artists. Madonna DOES all the above

This again? You could have levelled the same criticism at Ella Fitzgerald. Madonna is NOT a talented vocalist to even be in the same universe as Whitney. How can you say she's more talented? Laughable. I thought her whole career has been about how big you can get without discernible talent. Whitney was a singer, not a writer, producer, dancer or player of instruments. Yes, "Madonna does all the above", but VERY BADLY. At least Whitney can claim to be one of the best singers the world has ever known. Madonna's one talent is at marketing.

by Anonymousreply 19308/08/2013

Had Madonna been a classic beauty, like drop dead beautiful, it would have hindered her career. The fact that she was pretty and sexy and was able to work with what she had is part of what made and still makes her so successful. And unlike that pig Janet Jackson, she doesn't have to get lipo every 6 days nor did she give up her kid or kidnap her mother!

by Anonymousreply 19408/08/2013

R194 Bullshit! Everyone from Babyface to Timberland has PRAISED Madonna's work ethic in the studio and her abilities as a songwriter and especially producer

Nobody is disputing that Whitney had a better voice than Madonna but musical talent isn't just "voice" it's your overall performance style, can you read or write music and craft a catchy pop song? Madonna can, Whitney couldn't. Can you play instruments? Madonna can, Whitney couldn't

And for those criticizing Madonna's voice, it sounded quite good from around 95-04, while Whitney's voice was deteriorating

YouTube Madonna's performance of the Oscar winning song Sooner or Later from 1991 an amazing vocal performance, especially by someone who's not know for her vocal skills

by Anonymousreply 19508/08/2013

Madonna has lots of work done r195. And she's still not beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 19608/08/2013

And since this thread is about Madonna's looks not about her lack of talent vs Whitney Houston: I can't get over just how supermodel beautiful Whitney used to be.

by Anonymousreply 19708/08/2013

R198 she don't look like that no more!

by Anonymousreply 19808/08/2013

r196. Are all Madonna fans this obtuse? Whitney's job was to sing, not to "craft catchy pop songs".

[quote]And for those criticizing Madonna's voice, it sounded quite good from around 95-04, while Whitney's voice was deteriorating

This is live video of a "deteriorating" Whitney in '96. I bet Madonna (who was in the audience) would pay for that kind of deterioration. Vocal clarity may go, but singing ability doesn't really leave the great singers. Now post a video of Madonna where she sounds better than your average person singing in the shower.

by Anonymousreply 19908/08/2013

Hence "used to be" r199.

by Anonymousreply 20008/08/2013

R200 Whitney's drug addiction hadn't taken hold of her at that time, but look at her 2009 final concert performances and it was pretty clear that Whitney's voice was DONE

And again I've said repeatedly that Whitney was an amazing vocalist, I mean. She's not called "The Voice" for nothing.

And Whitney always had way more VOCAL talent than Madonna, any idiot knows that, but Madonna has way more MUSICAL talent (ability to read and write music, craft and produce a pop song, do different styles of dance and choreography, play some instruments)

by Anonymousreply 20108/08/2013

Awkward, r186? You're kind of a moron.

by Anonymousreply 20208/08/2013

R202 - Madonna has dance talent, but how much a musician is she?

by Anonymousreply 20308/08/2013

"By the way, a female Village Voice music columnist expressed some dismay at Madge for the "Like A Virgin" line "your love thawed out what was scared and cold". She wrote: "How can a woman describe her sexuality like a cheesecake"?"

Cheesecakes aren't scared. The columnist was reaching and failed.

by Anonymousreply 20408/08/2013

You got your answer, OP. She was and is, sexy, devilish, provocative, slutty, caring, giving, witty, talented mother of four. Oh, and she also has sold more albums than any other woman in the history of the planet Earth.

by Anonymousreply 20508/08/2013

ww for r207.

by Anonymousreply 20608/08/2013

She has a unique TONE to her voice that carries a secret.

by Anonymousreply 20708/08/2013

[quote]But Whitney does not have more talent then Madonna, all she was was a vocalist for hire and Clive Davis' puppet, she never wrote or produced a song in her life, never danced and never played instruments and a lot of her big hits were cover songs by other artists. Madonna DOES all the above

Not debating Whitney vs. Madonna, but Madonna doesn't know the first thing about writing music. It's all bullshit. She didn't write jack. Writers were willing to give her credit since she could make their songs huge. Maybe she had a keen ear, and she "consulted" by choosing between option A and option B, but Madonna never produced anything from scratch. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. Her talents lay elsewhere. But, she's not a songwriter by any stretch of the imagination.

by Anonymousreply 20808/08/2013

R210 knows this because, for some reason, he has been allowed to partake in all of Madonna's songwriting experiences for the past 30 years. Yes, he is the inner circle you have heard about.

by Anonymousreply 20908/08/2013

Madonna has copied many songs, so there goes the originality out the window. She's best at self marketing. Not in writing music. On her looks, she was cute as a younger woman. She's never been beautiful. She said in an interview that she has to work on being beautiful, aka make up, when there a women who don't have to. One musician said it best. "Her way of flaunting sexuality is somewhat desperate."

by Anonymousreply 21008/08/2013

I can't believe r190/r196 peddling the fallacy of Madonna playing instruments when all she did was use a guitar as a prop during her tour. Sheryl Crow plays an instrument. Alicia Keys plays an instrument. Madonna does NOT.

by Anonymousreply 21108/08/2013

R213 is blind to the facts. Madonna has played the guitar since college.

by Anonymousreply 21208/08/2013

I love how OP calls this a history question, like a question about Madonna's early beauty will be on his final exam.

by Anonymousreply 21308/08/2013

I can't at the fucking delusional, crazy, and incorrect Vadgestanbot up in this bitch! Vadge can't sing, act, dance or write and she's not close to beautiful. She's just good at marketing herself and the dumb people fall for her act.

by Anonymousreply 21408/08/2013

r214. Link please.

by Anonymousreply 21508/08/2013

[quote]Whitney can claim to be one of the best singers the world has ever known.

Whitney can also claim being one of the biggest wastes of talent the world has ever known too.

And no, I'm not a huge Madonna fan and I loved Whitney's early stuff.

by Anonymousreply 21608/08/2013

Your opinion on Madonna's looks r218?

by Anonymousreply 21708/08/2013

R219

I answered the question originally posted a few pages back. When she first came out, Madonna was not considered beautiful. She was considered slutty, because that's how she marketed herself, a slutty, street urchin. Considered sexy, yes, beautiful, no. But she also wasn't considered ugly or unattractive. She was probably considered pretty enough.

Do I personally think she's beautiful? I think she's had moments. But so has everyone. She has certain features when combined under the right circumstances, hair, makeup, lighting, weight, where she can be.

She's not unattractive that I would argue with someone telling me they thought she was beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 21808/08/2013

Not many celebrities generate this kind of controversy among DLers. Interesting ...

by Anonymousreply 21908/08/2013

[quote]Not many celebrities generate this kind of controversy among DLers. Interesting ...

Has this thread generated that much controversy? Seems like the majority of posts here have agreed that she was considered good looking but not Beautiful.

This has been one of the most mild Madonna threads I've come across.

by Anonymousreply 22008/08/2013

R216 you're an idiot you don't stay on top for 30 years based solely on good marketing, the product has to be there.

This is what Babyface said about Madonna a few years after working with her on Bedtime Stories

"Madonna came over to my house ans worked with real dedication, she's a wonderful and exceptionally talented songwriter and producer. She reconfirmed my interest in collaborating with artists who bring something to the table. She wrote two tunes, Take a Bow and Forbidden Love, and she contribute concept, melody, and lyrics."

But she has no musical talent? That's part of musical talent right there.

by Anonymousreply 22108/08/2013

R213 Madonna not only plays the guitar but a was a drummer in a rock band called The Breakfast Club in the late 70s/early 80s

You can see clips of her drumming and playing guitar on YouTube

Madonna also performed at CBGB and Max's Kansas City before she hit it big

It's fairly well known and confirmed by everyone that's worked with her that Madonna write the lyrics to her songs, she keeps a journal ans writes poetry and other ideas in it while she's working on an album, Madonna's co producer generally writes the music.

For Confessions on a Dancefloor I believe Madonna was less involved with the producing aspect letting Stuart Price do his thing, but a majority of songs off that album were written Solely by Madonna for a musical she was doing called "Hello Suckers"

by Anonymousreply 22208/08/2013

r224. Link of Madonna competently playing an instrument, please.

by Anonymousreply 22308/08/2013

Candid of Madonna and Michael Jackson, 1984.

by Anonymousreply 22408/08/2013

R214 Nope. She learned with a private tutor to "perform" on tours a few years back. She doesn't seem to really play. She knows a few chords. Same with her riding. It was all for the PR, to make her look accomplished. After falling several times she just quit. it's all for show. Look at Pink. She's an athlete who could perform with fricking Cirque du soleil. Now that's an accomplishement.

by Anonymousreply 22508/08/2013

R227 Google Madonna playing guitar or Madonna playing drums and you'll get a lot of images from when Madonna played during her days in the Breakfast Club in the late 70s/early 80s

Madonna played guitar on her last tour, you know the #1 grossing tour of 2012 and the 10th highest grossing tour of all time

by Anonymousreply 22608/08/2013

Would anyone call the woman at R226 beautiful???

by Anonymousreply 22708/08/2013

Madonna never mastered the guitar. She once played stairway to heaven in an interview & screwed up a # of times. In concert she couldn't play. Paltrow tried to learn also. I'm learning now & even I'm having a hard time (the pain on your fingers) and I'm an accomplished violinist.

by Anonymousreply 22808/08/2013

R226 they shared the same manager, Freddy DeMann for a few years

DeMann needs to write a book about managing the 2 biggest pop superstars of the modern era, before he dies

by Anonymousreply 22908/08/2013

R223 wrong. Vadge is not a talent. Hell, Shitney Spears has been around for what 14 years now and has no talent. A lot of people just have no taste and like these non-singers. In Vadge's case, a lot of people seem to like a non-singer who is a copycat thief, a wooden dancer and a non-beauty.

by Anonymousreply 23008/08/2013

I am the same age as Madonna and remember well when she broke onto the scene. No, she wasn't considered beautiful although many girls copied her style. But, back then in the olden days, our standards for beauty weren't nearly as high as they are now. Plastic surgery on both face and body is so commonplace that we now expect perfection.

by Anonymousreply 23108/08/2013

R230 Madonna playd Stairway to Heaven on q one hour special episode of Dateline NBC and she didn't screw it up, Matt Lauer was the host and he was impressed with her

skills

Madonna also rocked the guitar for a cover of a Pantera! Song, it's on YouTube

by Anonymousreply 23208/08/2013

R232 you must be talking about Lady Gaga who even went on TV and ADMITTED that Born This Way was a ripoff of Express Yourself and then lied saying that Madonna gave her blessing

Madonna can dance her ass off, when she was younger she was actually accepted into the prestigious Alvin Ailey dance troupe due to her dancing skills

Madonna's best dancing was on her 2006 Confessions Tour, her Music number and choreography was SPECTACULAR

by Anonymousreply 23308/08/2013

R232 my post on what Babyface said contradicts your failed point that Madonna doesn't write or produce her songs, when in fact she's EXTREMELY involved

David Foster did an interview with Songwriters magazine when his autobio came out in 2009, he also PRAISED Madonna's talent and songwriting and he was impressed with how good her voice sounded, at the time (1995).

by Anonymousreply 23408/08/2013

R178 is right. That's where Madonna's stamina comes from, Quebec. If you look up the genealogy of her mother's side, it's made up of pioneer stock who started life in a freezer in the early 1600s. A province that refused to give up their culture 400 years later.

We can't forget that Camilla and Hillary Clinton share the stamina, along with Angelina Jolie.

It really is a different breed up there. They all have First Nation running through their veins from the very early times. The closest comparison to that society is Puerto Rico. Both boast the oldest cities in this hemisphere.

by Anonymousreply 23508/08/2013

Many of us outside the US thought she was a British Punk singer, maybe because she looked like she had not taken a shower in months, and that is, unfortunately, a very European characteristic.

Also,she gave the impression that she was humble and could happily live on the streets and would at any moment throw away any earnings she made out the window, which again was considered more European than materialistic American. There was still a cold war going on at the time!

I rarely paid attention to her until I saw the video for BORDERLINE for the first time. I thought, WOW this chick is pretty, not just pretty but captivatingly so. Something about her expressions in that video just cried out loud: POTENTIAL FAG HAG, and isnt that what any gay man actually craves from an attractive woman?

by Anonymousreply 23608/08/2013

R234, get us the links & let DLers judge for themselves. She can't play the guitar well or even intermediate. Also see the links where she tries to play on stage & the proof is right there.

by Anonymousreply 23708/08/2013

R239 I can't post links, but all this stuff can be Goigled or YouTubed

I never said she was a great guitar player, I said she can play decently enough

Aside from guitar and drums, she can also play the piano and keyboards, she played the keyboards on her earliest recordings

by Anonymousreply 23808/08/2013

R227 and yet Pink, like all the pop girls to get big during the last 5 years idolizes Madonna

They were on a talk show together a few years back and Pink looked like she was about to cry and pass out when Madonna came on stage to hug her, after Pink told Kelly Ripa that Madonna was her idol in music

The power of Madonna

Regardless of how talented certain people think she is, there will never be another like her

by Anonymousreply 23908/08/2013

She looked like a hot, fuckable, Italian Catholic girl. And there is always a beauty to that.

by Anonymousreply 24008/08/2013

Here's a link to some stupid blog but it proves my point. She's not an accomplished musician

by Anonymousreply 24108/08/2013

[quote]Consider, if Madonna were beautiful she wouldn't have had to assimilate the iconography of past celebrities. She would've made a unique impression of her own.

OK, I'm not a huge Vadge fan but I'm going to call bullshit on this. The Like A Virgin/Boy Toy look - crucifix, lace gloves, ratty hair, big belts, etc - was an original look. Its the "Madonna" look, along with the cone bra from Blonde Ambition. If you dressed like that today 99 out of 100 people would immediately identify you as Madonna.

by Anonymousreply 24208/08/2013

Not beautiful in the classic sense.. more sexy. She looked much better then with a bit of meat on her, more womanly. It was that coquettish sluttishness that got her career started and straight men interested, once they found out she was calling the shots it was a major dick wilter.

I believe I saw her in one of those beauty lists, I think maybe Madame Tusauds where she was regularly listed in the top 3 for "beauty" alongside Diana and Joan Collins. Though even in 1985 she could only make #10 on Us Magazine's sexy list where Pierce Brosnan spoke about her "great pair of lungs" or some pun.

It was also said that Madonna wasn't too beautiful (like Debbie Harry) for normal girls to relate to, they felt they could be her, or like her, so that got her a huge following.

She looked proper amazing in those early vids and photos, but of course it was all smoke and mirrors. You can see the likes of Like a Virgin are soft focussed and washed out. So remastering them for DVD would be fruitless, fans complained about the quality for Celebration, but that's the way they were shot. The reality was Madonna was hard faced. I'd love to see her freaking out about lighting in early interviews like she did here.

by Anonymousreply 24308/08/2013

I'd pay Madonna a million bucks to sit on my face and have her ride like the Kentucky derby...'

by Anonymousreply 24408/08/2013

[quote]and yet Pink, like all the pop girls to get big during the last 5 years

Pink's debut album was 13 years ago, grandma. Her second and best-selling album to date, the multi-platinum M!ssundaztood, was released in 2001. Are you really this out of touch?

by Anonymousreply 24508/08/2013

R244 exactly certain Madonna haters will do ANYTHING to discredit her including resorting to scurrilous lies and rewriting history

It's sad, if you don't like somebody that's fine, but what's the point of posting on a thread about someone you don't even like?

by Anonymousreply 24608/08/2013

R247 I met to type 15 years instead of 5, I know Pink's debut album Can't Take Me Home came out in 1999, when I was finishing high school.

by Anonymousreply 24708/08/2013

Being a little fleshy worked for her.

by Anonymousreply 24808/08/2013

R224, her original look was actually ripped off from Lauper and that cone bra was featured in Vogue, in bright yellow on a black model by Jean-Paul Gaultier many years before. Nothing of hers is original. Her true idols are Marlene Dietrich and Debbie Harry.

by Anonymousreply 24908/08/2013

R251 - How much of Bob Dylan was original?

by Anonymousreply 25008/08/2013

Vadge certainly did NOT start the trends of lace gloves, "ratty" hair or big belts. A lot of other people were already doing that. Vadge was just more famous and so credit is unduly heaped onto her.

I've seen much more convincing drag queens and trannies than this:

by Anonymousreply 25108/08/2013

"Debbie" Harry?

by Anonymousreply 25208/08/2013

[quote]Vadge certainly did NOT start the trends of lace gloves, "ratty" hair or big belts. A lot of other people were already doing that. Vadge was just more famous and so credit is unduly heaped onto her.

And Madonna has said this herself. Several times, when people have asked her about inventing that style, she's commented that she was only dressing how every other girl in NY was dressed.

by Anonymousreply 25308/08/2013

Yeah, some said she was ripping off Bananarama, but that was just the post-punk style of the time from London to NY.

by Anonymousreply 25408/08/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 25508/08/2013

MADONNA DID NOT RIP OFF THAT ONE HIT ALBUM WONDER LAUPER.

Madonna debuted BEFORE her and their is a photo session of Madonna from 1982 with that crazy, long rainbow colored hair Lauper would sport around 84-85

Also the "Madonna look" was completely different from the kooky, fun asexual stryle Lauper had at the time

I mean it was called "the Madonna look" for godsakes, not "the Lauper look" because that style was identified with Madonna.

by Anonymousreply 25608/08/2013

Madonna and Cyndi Lauper were both part of the downtown NYC club crowd in the early 80s so they did dress somewhat similarly, but Madonna definitely had a style of her own. Madonna was sexy, Cyndi was just strange-looking.

by Anonymousreply 25708/08/2013

I was in college at the time and she was NOT considered beautiful by anyone at all. Nor was Cyndi Lauper. They were considered quirky, distinctive, a bit slutty, and freaky...unlike the Go-Go's and the Bangles. It took Madonna to be considered "striking" but I don't know she ever reached beautiful but to quote the philosopher Robin Thicke those are some Blurred Lines...

by Anonymousreply 25808/08/2013

Susannah Hoffs was loved by straight guys back then. She was a genuinely hot chick. They all thought Belinda Carlisle was fat and weren't interested. What's funny today is that Belinda didn't look all that heavy, but back then Americans were much thinner than they are now so she was considered fat by the standards of the early 80s.

by Anonymousreply 25908/08/2013

R259 and let's not forget that in 1986 Madonna completely changed her look with True Blue and had that classic blonde 1950's beauty going

6 months after TB is released, Lauper comes out with True Colors and copies Madonna's exact hair style and even has a similarly titled album

I remember all the kids on the school yard in grade school were saying that Lauper was trying so hard to be like, and copy and be as big as Madonna

We all know how that turned out

by Anonymousreply 26008/08/2013

R261 - Susanna IS genuinely hot. She's still gorgeous.

by Anonymousreply 26108/08/2013

Belinda actually said how much she envied Madonna's Papa Don't Preach body.

She definitely WAS fat in the Go Gos days. But she was hot with her surgery makeover for Heaven Is a Place on Earth.

by Anonymousreply 26208/08/2013

E264 WHET Belinda Carlisle? I used to like her when I was a kid.

by Anonymousreply 26308/08/2013

Belinda got some obvious face work, and now resembles a Keebler Elf.

by Anonymousreply 26408/08/2013

Belinda C. in 1983. She does not look fat to me.

by Anonymousreply 26508/08/2013

The Go-Gos New Years Eve 1983. Belinda looks a little chubby, but not fat.

by Anonymousreply 26608/08/2013

To the delusional Vadgestanbot who thinks Vadge didn't copy Cyndi Lauper, here are the receipts bitch:

#1

by Anonymousreply 26708/08/2013

#2 in 1984. AFTER Cyndi's first album blew Vadge's out of the water, Vadge totally copied this look:

by Anonymousreply 26808/08/2013

#3

by Anonymousreply 26908/08/2013

r270 I am not seeing any similarites in Madonna and Cyndi in those pics, save for the side ponytail, which was a popular look back then for many women. You're really fucking reaching.

by Anonymousreply 27008/08/2013

R269 Madonna's photo was taken during a 1983 shoot to promote her debut album released that summer

Lauper's debut album didn't arrive until the end of '83, so that photo was either taken at the end of '83 or more than likely sometime in 1984.

Your a stupid, bitter, dumbass moron, who spends his time hating a celebrity that doesn't even know your alive

Even resorting to scurrilous lies and rewriting history to discredit her.

by Anonymousreply 27108/08/2013

Again Madonna came out FIRST, so if there were style similarities it would be Lauper copying Madonna since Madonna came out first

Madonna was interviewed by MTV in December 1983 and they were already talking about her unique look

Lauper's debut album was just released that month

by Anonymousreply 27208/08/2013

[quote]Susannah Hoffs was loved by straight guys back then.

Talk about bitches who couldn't sing.

by Anonymousreply 27308/08/2013

R275 - Susanna has a raspy voice, but she can sing. She certainly can play the guitar - unlike Madonna, unlike Whitney. She and the others in the Bangles also wrote a good deal of their material, though their best known songs are from other artists.

by Anonymousreply 27408/08/2013

r274 yes Madonna came first, which also confuses me about the comparisons.

But it really came with Like a Virgin. It was said that they chipmunked the Minnie Mouse helium voice even more to compete with the then more popular Cyndi Lauper. Material Girl was very Cyndi, that second album lost all the funk that was in the debut and was pitched right to the mainstream. The image change (move to full on slut, rather than trashy bimbo) is what sealed it.

Madonna's look though was mostly different. Cyndi was kooky and bizarre, she was difficult on the eyes (the true precursor to Gaga), Madonna favoured the girly glamour look, even in the early ragtag clothes. She was the "boy toy" after all.

by Anonymousreply 27508/08/2013

R276

I don't think that Susannah's voice is any better than Madonna's. I don't think it's terrible (except her voice on Eternal Flame makes me cringe), but it's not great. Neither is Madonna's. Both are fine for what they're doing though.

by Anonymousreply 27608/08/2013

I think it's been said here already, but Madonna's look was seen more as trashy/slutty and Cyndi's was just considered strange.

by Anonymousreply 27708/08/2013

Let's be real. Cyndi was ripping her look off Boy George!

by Anonymousreply 27808/08/2013

What made her particularly beautiful was her pioneering use of a headset microphone.

by Anonymousreply 27908/08/2013

lol r280 I just found this video. Though he's smacked out of his brain, I think he has a point.

Madonna and he have a long history and they hung out when he was a big star and she wasn't yet famous. r17's pic is one of a few where she has the Boy George/Marilyn look.

by Anonymousreply 28008/08/2013

Madonna knew of Lauper b/any of them recorded.

Here's the lowdown with links on Madonna's ripoffs.

'Splain this... Here's a link. Scroll down to

look for: "You will never view Madonna the same once you know this"

There's some really complimentary items in there as well. The author seems to have a love/hate with Madonna so the Madgebots won't be too angry but must admit the truth.

by Anonymousreply 28108/08/2013

Now, Boy George really COULD sing and his look was all his own.

by Anonymousreply 28208/08/2013

Madonna is a beautiful gift bestowed to us for 30 years now, her record sales and tour sales prove it. There will always be the same two psychotic JanBots and GagBots here to diss her without linkage or source citing, but who gives a shit about them? They have no lives or friends or career. They LIVE for DataLounge and their incessant posting here simply proves it.

by Anonymousreply 28308/08/2013

What we've established so far:

Madonna is a pop singer who can't sing.

Madonna steals credit from bonafide songwriters.

Madonna was a clumsy, effortful dancer.

Madonna pretended to play guitar on one of her tours

Madonna was never considered beautiful, just available.

by Anonymousreply 28408/08/2013

r286, congratulations on coming to a conclusion that fits your already held views.

by Anonymousreply 28508/08/2013

Whitney looks very beautiful in that picture r198. She actually made it as model first. To think she also had that voice ... some people just had stardom handed to them on a platter. She didn't have to scratch and claw like Madonna.

by Anonymousreply 28608/08/2013

Have I lied on any point r287?

by Anonymousreply 28708/08/2013

[quote]Madonna was a clumsy, effortful dancer

As well as you lifting that from an article in another thread, I don't think that's a fair or accurate assessment.

You can call her dancing average if you like but clumsy and effortful are totally the wrong adjectives. If anyone is effortful it's surely those who do the robotic military heavy choreography style (and no I aren't specifically referring to Janet Fucking Jackson).

Out of all her talents dancing is what she does best. If anything she's effortless and has a natural fluidity and grace informed by her ballet training that others just don't have - look at the movements in the Papa Don't Preach video.

by Anonymousreply 28808/08/2013

Are you saying she's a better dancer than Janet, r290?

by Anonymousreply 28908/08/2013

My dad's in his late 40s was always into music and tells, what I think at least, is an interesting take on what it was like when Madonna hit. When they first started hearing her, it was on the radio, and him and his friends assumed Madonna was the name of a black girl group. It wasn't like for a few weeks later that they saw a video and realized the truth. They thought she was hot, but in a kind of trashy way. He didnt think she was hot the way he thought Debbie Harry was. Another thing Ive heard him say is after Madonna hit, Annie Lennox ditched the androgyny look, and people started to really notice how beautiful she was. If you compared the two of them at the same time, there was not question, Annie was the looker. In some ways, Madonna copied Annie's look later.

by Anonymousreply 29008/08/2013

R287, you have your head so far up your ass it doesn't even warrant an answer. But thanks for continuing to give Madonna so many pings on the internet hit counter. The Gal has GOT to be relevant!

by Anonymousreply 29108/09/2013

R286 bullshit

Madonna keeps a journal while working and writes lyrics in their for a majority of her songs, she also has an amazing sense of musicality while producing songs she knows what works

All of her collaborators have mentioned this

Madonna has played guitar steadily on tour since 2001, she actually first learned to play in 1979.

Madonna is a strong, classically trained dancer who can pull off any style of dancing from street to line dancing to the flamenco

Madonna has a strong, underrated voice with great intonation and the ability to sing in different keys (which is the sign of a true singer, not your vocal range).

by Anonymousreply 29208/09/2013

R295 he's just stating the truth and I love Madonna and am 31

by Anonymousreply 29408/09/2013

These Vadgestanbots are crazy. She has copied most famous women with her looks. That's why people confuse her "iconic looks" as they are the iconic looks of other, more beautiful women who did it first.

by Anonymousreply 29508/09/2013

R297 = Why doesn't anybody believe me??? Why?

by Anonymousreply 29608/09/2013

R299, Anyone can file a nuisance law suit, it is done all the time. Why don't you be a good little girl and show us a list of all of the lawsuits that were thrown out of court and won by Madonna? Be a good little girl and follow up on that for us, OK dear?

by Anonymousreply 29808/09/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 29908/09/2013

R301, Anyone can file a nuisance law suit, it is done all the time. Why don't you be a good little girl and show us a list of all of the lawsuits that were thrown out of court and won by Madonna? Be a good little girl and follow up on that for us, OK dear?

by Anonymousreply 30008/09/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 30108/09/2013

Wow the haters REALLY will resort to anything

Madonna herself has admitted that she has paid homage in her work to various icons such as Deitriech.

It's nothing new at least she admits it unlike Lady Gags

And for the Janbot didn't Janet due an entire video which was just her impersonating her idol Dorothy Dandridge? Like Madonna did with her Material Girl/ Monroe video homage?

by Anonymousreply 30208/09/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 30308/09/2013

Dusty Springfield on her songwriting:

[italic]"I don't really see myself as a songwriter. I don't really like writing ... I just don't get any good ideas and the ones I do get are pinched from other records. The only reason I write is for the money - oh mercenary creature!"[/italic]

Now, for someone who wrote actual songs, unlike Madonna who stole credit after minor changes of lyrics in already complete songs, this is refreshingly honest and an example of someone not interested in being called a songwriter knowing full-well it wasn't her forte.

by Anonymousreply 30408/09/2013

R305 Madonna is above Diedrieche as an icon

She the biggest female music star of all time and one of the 2 biggest female entertainers in history along with Monroe

And Madonna always gives credit, when Material Girl came out she wouldn't shut up about how much she loves Monroe and the whole video is an homage to her

Last month she dressed up as Deidrech for her tour screening and went on about what an influence she was to her

You're getting Madonna confused with Gaga, whose ripped off Madonna, Jones and Bowie and never gives credit and EVEN LIES to the press

by Anonymousreply 30508/09/2013

R306 There is no evidence that Madonna doesn't write her songs, quite the contrary as I have posted earlier

Madonna has bought songs from other songwriters and changed some lyrics and took an "additional lyrics" credit, but EVERYONE does that

Even so Madonna gave top credit to the songwriters

Madonna writes at least 90% of her lyrics herself

THIS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHOSE WORKED WITH HER

by Anonymousreply 30608/09/2013

It's clear as day that in 1984 Vadge copied Lauper's look. Suddenly out of nowhere Vadge grew her hair out, put it in the extreme side pony, started wearing the same dresses as Cyndi and wore lots of beads in the same way.

Vadge is a PROVEN thief of other's imagery and lyrics. Of course she doesn't directly rip off the big names she works with. Look it up on the internet-she steals writing credits and even resorted to fucking buying a GAP commercial poem. Is the writer of that poem listed in the credits of her song? nope. That's just 1 of countless examples.

by Anonymousreply 30708/09/2013

[quote]It's clear as day that in 1984 Vadge copied Lauper's look. Suddenly out of nowhere Vadge grew her hair out, put it in the extreme side pony, started wearing the same dresses as Cyndi and wore lots of beads in the same way.

Or she was just dressing like every other girl on the NY streets were.

And we've already established that Cyndi stole her look from Boy George. Keep up.

by Anonymousreply 30808/09/2013

I am continually saddened at the need to tear down Madonna - she was there for us in the '80s. Yeah, she's also a heartless fame whore, but so what? Who isn't?

The worst Madonna has ever done to YOU is put out crap music and wear bad clothes, so unless it goes further than that, maybe you could just get the fuck over yourself Mary.

by Anonymousreply 30908/09/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 31008/09/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 31108/09/2013

[quote]Madonna isn't even bigger than Lady Gaga.

Talk about deluded minds. No, seriously. Do we just ignore Gaga's album and tour sales (or lack thereof)?

I'm not even a Madonna fan, but I love how the people who hate her so much feel the need to spread that hate everywhere. It makes me laugh because it seems so counter-productive. Don't those who hate her realize she doesn't care? Madonna actually doesn't care if you like her or hate her because regardless, you guys are still talking about her.

Those that hate her give her more press and keep her name out there more than any of those that like her do. That's exactly what she built her career on.

Hell, those who talk so much shit about her spend more time on her than they do on the people they actually like.

by Anonymousreply 31208/09/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 31308/09/2013

R313 EVERYONE knows who Madonna is you stupid retard

Most successful solo artist in Billboard Hot 100 history is Madonna

Guinness Book World Record winner for Biggest Selling AND Most Successful Female Artist of All Time is Madonna

Billboard and Pollstar winner for Highest Grossing Solo Touring Artist in History is Madonna

And for the 80th time, MDNA was not her farewell tour and she only performed 7 classic songs on it

Gaga is an ugly, flash in the pain copycat who WILL BE DESTROYED by Katy Perry and Rihanna thia fall

She's a one album wonder, the Cyndi Lauper of her generation

Hard Rock Cafe's in 5 years

by Anonymousreply 31408/09/2013

[quote]No one knows who Madonna is.

And yet you obviously do since you can't seem to stop yourself from posting about her.

by Anonymousreply 31508/09/2013

R313 but the amazing thing is that 30 YEARS into her career, Madonna is ranked as the 5th most powerful celebrity in the world

This just proves her staying power is astonishing

Do you honesty think in 25 years that Gags will be anywhere near a most powerful celebrities list?

Madonna will still be!

by Anonymousreply 31608/09/2013

R315 bitch plaese Madonna is still one of the most famous women in the world

Hell her Superbowl halftime performance last year was watched by more viewers in the US than any TV SHOW IN HISTORY

117 million viewers, which was 3 million more viewers than the game itself

Another day another Guinness World Record for Madonna

by Anonymousreply 31708/09/2013

Marelene Dietrich is a legendary actress, but she's mainly known to movie buffs and people who follow that sort of stuff. The average person doesn't know who she is. The only person from Hollywood's Golden Age who is probably known to more than just cinephiles is Marilyn Monroe. The average person doesn't know her life story, but they know who she is or are familiar with her image. Even my brother's jock friends know of her.

Gaga is known by most everyone, too, but that's mainly because she's current. We don't know how she'll be remembered in 10 or 20 years, if at all. She could become a has-been in 5 for all we know. But Madonna has proven she has staying power. 30 years after her first album, she's still on top and even outselling contemporary, younger artists. For the person who said she's just "a relic from the '80s" obviously has an ax to grind. Her last three world tours broke records:

[quote]Madonna's next three tours broke world records, with the 2006 Confessions Tour grossing over US $194.7 million, becoming the highest-grossing tour ever for a female artist at that time. This feat was surpassed in 2008 with the Sticky & Sweet Tour, which went on to become the highest-grossing tour ever by a solo artist, and the second highest-grossing tour of all time, with approximately US $408 million in ticket sales.[13] Madonna's 2012 MDNA Tour became the second highest-grossing tour among female artists, only behind Madonna's own Sticky & Sweet Tour, grossing over US $305 million.

Furthermore, MDNA was not a "farewell tour" nor was it advertised as such. I've never heard that until R315's post.

by Anonymousreply 31808/09/2013

[quote]I am continually saddened at the need to tear down Madonna - she was there for us in the '80s.

There for us??? LMFAO! She hasn't done SHIT for gays except take their money. If you're "there for someone", you help them for free and because you want to, not in a "if you keep buying my records and seeing my concerts, I'll occasionally say I support gay rights" kind of way.

Lets not forget when she basically washed her hands of gays when she was married to Guy Ritchie. She barely even acknowledged gays during her marriage.

by Anonymousreply 31908/09/2013

R315 "Lady Gaga is the Meryl Streep of music" Oh My God STOP already you stupid ageist cunt, if you think Madonna is old Meryl Streep is older by TEN YEARS! Do you even know who she is to be saying it over and a over?

by Anonymousreply 32008/09/2013

I don't know about anybody else, huge Madonna fan here, I liked Gaga when she came out, still do in fact, but these fans of hers are just ruining it for me, what a nasty bunch imbeciles. Are they rabid?

by Anonymousreply 32108/09/2013

R232 they want Gaga to have what Madonna has the record sales, huge tours, cultural power

What amazes me is that Gaga herself as gone on record claiming to be "the world's biggest Madonna fan" and dedicated The Fame album to her

by Anonymousreply 32208/09/2013

Wow, after 300+ comments, this thread has finally gone crazy.

by Anonymousreply 32308/09/2013

R323, it's one thing if they hate Madonna, but they're going out of their way to discredit her and rewrite history. The fact that Madonna into her 3rd decade in showbusiness can outsell 5-year-p;d Gaga in tours is threatening, I guess.

by Anonymousreply 32408/09/2013

Beyonce has writing credits on nearly all of her hits. Do you think she actually writes anything? I don't think she can even read, let alone write.

by Anonymousreply 32508/09/2013

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by Anonymousreply 32608/09/2013

R327 HaHa you are probably right, goes for her husband too, along with Katy Perry (added that one in for the black racist troll) Fuck Gaga, because of her fans I wont be buying her album, I'll save the cash for Madonna's next tour. Let Gaga's album collect dust, while her "fans" download it for free.

by Anonymousreply 32708/09/2013

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by Anonymousreply 32808/09/2013

Gaga will be done before madonna's finished her live nation contract. The business doesn't work the way it used to. Madge is from the old school and those guys/gals keep their spot until the die or overdose on prescription medication.

by Anonymousreply 32908/09/2013

And on the subject of Gaga isn't it interesting that in response to the original question posted here, there's at least some debate that Madonna was considered beautiful, but most agree she was pretty or considered fuckable. Let it be known that no such question or discussion is ever posed on Gaga since no one remotely considers her any of those things.

by Anonymousreply 33008/09/2013

Because Gaga is the most hideous Pop singer ever. It's true.

by Anonymousreply 33108/09/2013

R330 please! Do you know how many artists have come and gone in Madonna's wake? It's like a who's who of dead pop careers

Madonna actually likes Perry, Rihanna, Kesha etc.

Rihanna and Perry both have expressed their dreams to duet with her

Madonna could team up with one of them both who are far more popular at the moment than yesterday's news Gaga

by Anonymousreply 33208/09/2013

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by Anonymousreply 33308/09/2013

Any one notice hoe Gaga fans like to scream about Madonna being a copycat (and truth be told they wouldn't have a clue unless someone pointed it out to them as most of them don't have enough knowledge or history of music) Yet when its pointed out to them that Gaga has stolen and copied everything she's ever done, these same fans ignore it and choose not to respond? They can't even defend her.

Madonna even steals better than Gaga. At least shit she's stolen is usually obscure. Gaga isn't bright enough to even do that. I mean when you steal from Ace of Base you prove how low you are.

Carry on.

by Anonymousreply 33408/09/2013

R332, that's so true! As a teenager in the early '90s, I had male friends who talked about wanting to "tap" Madonna. At the time she was going through her blonde bombshell phase and had released her EROTICA album and SEX book.

No one calls Gaga sexy or fuckable. In fact, a guy at the gym I know is convinced she's a man in drag or a tranny. I think Gaga realizes she's not remotely attractive so she tries to be outlandish to compensate, i.e. bizarre makeup and costumes. If she were to dress/look normally, she would be downright homely.

by Anonymousreply 33508/09/2013

[quote]Lady Gaga knows she doesn't need Madonna.

She doesn't need her except when she's stealing from her image, songs, costumes etc. I'd say Gaga and her career needed Madonna very much.

by Anonymousreply 33608/09/2013

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by Anonymousreply 33708/09/2013

R339

Again proving my point that Gaga fans will never address that Gaga has blatantly built her entiof career, persona, and song catalog by stealing all of it.

by Anonymousreply 33808/09/2013

BUT R339, she CAN maintain a career for 30 years!

by Anonymousreply 33908/09/2013

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by Anonymousreply 34008/09/2013

"Look up desperate in the dictionary."

I did. It defined it as Gaga trying to cover her stealing Born This Way by saying she wrote it for Whitney. As if Whitney would sing a piece of shit song like that.

by Anonymousreply 34108/09/2013

R342, how is that not impressive? In showbusiness longevity is rare. You're lucky if you last 5 years. To still be selling out arenas at her age is rather damn impressive.

I think you're either trolling or you have an irrational blind hatred for Madonna.

by Anonymousreply 34208/09/2013

R339 that's your PERSONAL opinion the same can and has been said about Gaga

And if Madonna's so awful than why was she GaGa's main inspiration?

Gaga's first press release from 2008:

"I went to completely revolutionalize music like no other female artist has done since Madonna 25 years ago I'm a continuation of the revolution she started".

Obsessed with Madonna much GaGa?

by Anonymousreply 34308/09/2013

R344 not only arena's but stadiums too on her last couple od tours

Madonna sold out Yankee Stadium in 20 minutes and set TWO records, fastest sellout at Yankee Stadium ever and first solo female to sell it YS.

Due to popular demand she has to add a second date which sold out

Poor Gags couldn't even sell out one date their despite the fact the NYC is her hometown

by Anonymousreply 34408/09/2013

this thread is at 346? jfc

by Anonymousreply 34508/09/2013

Now it's at 348.

by Anonymousreply 34608/09/2013

r301 a bit of context would be nice. That one was from Vanity Fair and the whole issue was Monroe themed in the first place.

I agree the Dietrich copying is out of hand though, that latest appearance for her tour DVD was cringeworthy.

Interestingly enough, though Madonna idolised her, Marlene did not exactly have kind words to say about her so it's a surprise she kept referencing her. Mind you, nothing compared to what Dietrich said about Meryl Streep.

by Anonymousreply 34708/09/2013

I love how the Vadgestanbot's only defense of Vadge's copycat ways is to attack Gaga. That still won't take away from what Vadge has done. It's idiotic stans like you people who have allowed this non-talent with slightly above average looks and a horrible cuntish attitude to become so successful. Pathetic.

by Anonymousreply 34808/09/2013

R349 didn't Dietrich say that Meryl was ugly?

Dietrich did say some nice things about Madonna like "She puta on an exceptional stage show the public never makes a mistake."

by Anonymousreply 34908/09/2013

R350

And what's Vegas fans defense for Gagas Xeroxing? Oh yeah they just ignore it because they can't defend or deny it.

And your post actually doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering it was the Gaga fan that came into a Madonna thread to talk shit about Madonna.

by Anonymousreply 35008/09/2013

R350 again it's YOUR OPINION, which your entitled too, that Madonna is average looking and doesn't have talent

What I have a problem with is the scurrilous lies and rewriting of history as well aa BIZARRE intense hatred for someone to back up your "claims"

Life is too short to be angry and bitter

Let it go

by Anonymousreply 35108/09/2013

R352 it's always that way Gaga fans are OBSESSED with everything Madonna related

The monsters hate her, yet they can't stop talking, posted and obsessing over her

The Power od Madonna

by Anonymousreply 35208/09/2013

This was a fun thread until it turned into trolls arguing back and forth. I hate it when that happens.

by Anonymousreply 35308/09/2013

[quote]Marlene did not exactly have kind words to say about her so it's a surprise she kept referencing her. Mind you, nothing compared to what Dietrich said about Meryl Streep.

Was that when Dietrich said Streep was too ugly to play Evita? I remember something about Streep wanting to be cast in the film (c. 1989) and saying something like, "If she [Madonna} gets it, I'll kill her" or something.

by Anonymousreply 35408/09/2013

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by Anonymousreply 35508/09/2013

r306 if you bring in Dusty then Madonna is always going to look bad.

[quote]Madonna has a strong, underrated voice with great intonation and the ability to sing in different keys (which is the sign of a true singer, not your vocal range)

OK Madbot, you're going too far there. Though I like Madonna's voice and wouldn't be a fan if I didn't, I would never make great claims for it as technically there's nothing there. Fact of the matter is, her voice is shaky at the best of times.

As well as her range being very limited, I can barely think of any of her songs with key changes or long sustained notes. Only someone tone deaf would claim she has "great intonation", that's her biggest problem as a singer and rightfully gets her the most flack since if you're off key, well, people think you can't really sing and everything.

Madonna's live record is downright appalling and embarrassing as a fan. Even on record, before autotune, there were flat and sharp notes all over the place. I don't happen to mind that as on the Like a Prayer album it adds some authenticity that you wouldn't get with autotune - and autotune killed her music stone dead - but the wrong notes are forever immortalised for all to see.

It says it all when another pop diva with questionable vocals like Kylie is always pitch perfect live. The fans make all sorts of excuses but Madonna can't sing live and doesn't have a good sense of pitch. And if you can't cut it live then people will rightfully say you can't sing.

by Anonymousreply 35608/09/2013

[quote]Vadge certainly did NOT start the trends of lace gloves, "ratty" hair or big belts. A lot of other people were already doing that. Vadge was just more famous and so credit is unduly heaped onto her.

In her defense, she popularized this look and brought it into the mainstream. It was largely an underground, punk rock look that only savvy underground types knew about. She made it so 13 year olds started dressing like that.

I remember when we all first heard "Everybody" and "Burning Up" on the radio we thought she was black. No white woman sang that way or sang music like that. Then someone saw her in a video and breathlessly reported back to us that she was WHITE and a "PUNK ROCKER!! ". Everyone was shocked. We were 13-14 at the time.

by Anonymousreply 35708/09/2013

R357, you're officially a troll. I'm not gonna bother with you anymore. That's the umpteenth time you posted that link. You're obviously here just to rile up people.

by Anonymousreply 35808/09/2013

Yes r356. Streep denied the Madonna quote though and they sat together at the GGs last year. Annoyingly I don't think there's a picture of them though!

by Anonymousreply 35908/09/2013

Gwyneth was slated to play Dietrich in a biopic (stupid, I know) and Madonna freaked and ended the friendship. Tracy Anderson had nothing to do with it. Google it.

Now Gaga/Madonna fans...here is a classically trained voice of Francesca Gagnon. A pure Quebecoise. The beginning is annoying as hell for a few seconds.

Alegria means joyous in Spanish. Sung in Spanish, English and Italian. What a voice!

by Anonymousreply 36008/09/2013

WHO KEEPS LINKING TO THAT NUTTY JUDICIARY REPORT WEBSITE?!? Seriously, have you looked over that site? Whoever runs it is a complete loon. I'm talking tinfoil-hat-wearing, voices-in-the-head, talking-to-them-self C R A Z Y.

by Anonymousreply 36108/09/2013

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by Anonymousreply 36208/09/2013

"Gwyneth was slated to at Dietrich

Bitch probably stole it right from under Madonna. Lord knows it wouldn't be the first time.

by Anonymousreply 36308/09/2013

R364 Vadge always has a forced smile because she's such a miserable bitch.

by Anonymousreply 36408/09/2013

Uma Thurman was slated to star in Louis Malle's adaptation of Riva's biography. After Malle's death, the project fell into different hands and was shelved for a while, only to resurface with Paltrow as the leading contender (!).

I don't think Madonna was ever considered for the part.

by Anonymousreply 36508/09/2013

Madonna has never taken credit for the look she had when she first became famous. She has always said she didn't invent it, she just dressed like every other club girl in the downtown NYC clubs in the early 80s.

by Anonymousreply 36608/09/2013

Happy birthday to a true singer, Whitney Houston, singing a LIVE tribute to legend Lena Horne. Whitney would have turned 50 today.

Still waiting for Madonna's fans to link live video of Madonna singing competently enough to be considered a better singer than the average person on the street.

by Anonymousreply 36708/09/2013

R367 Cher has had a #1 on the A Billboard chart the last 6 decades

Not the main real deal Hot 100

Where Madonna is the #2 most successful artists in Billboards history behind the Beatles

And Madonna can't have that record anyway because SHE HASN'T BEEN AROUND OR BORN FOR 6 DECADES

She has had #1's in EVERY decade since she became active the 80s, 90s, 2000s, and 2010's

She also had ANOTHER Billboard record for the artist with the most #1's in all their charts combined

An astonishing 156 Billboard #1's!

by Anonymousreply 36808/09/2013

R369 Google her 1991 Oscars performance where MJ was her date

Great singing

And yes Houston was a true Singer with songs that we're covers or written by other people

Barely involved in the creative process of her recordings, unlike Madonna

Bland videos and concerts

Barely visible cultural influence

But a great vocalist

Before the crack

by Anonymousreply 36908/09/2013

NO one's denying that Whitney was a great vocalist, but she wasn't much of a performer. Her concerts mainly consisted of her standing there belting out ballads. The truth is, she didn't really influence the musical landscape... or fashion or anything else really. In fact, early in her career, Whitney had a Madonna look to her:

by Anonymousreply 37008/09/2013

lol @ r364. Yes, remember that. They sure knew who to put the camera on of course.

They also cut to Julianne Moore when Madge was onstage getting her award, Moore said Body of Evidence was her most miserable on set experience.

I think M referred to Madge calling Weinstein the punisher in her speech.

I believe Madonna used to compliment M in interviews, early on she stated that Jessica Lange was her favourite actress.

by Anonymousreply 37108/09/2013

R364, you really are a deranged socially retarded individual.

by Anonymousreply 37208/09/2013

[quote]Meryl Streep at the GG 2012. Madonna puts on a forced smile, hating Meryl's guts in the process.

Oh PLEASE. Madonna would give her left arm to be linked with Meryl Streep as friends. It would give her a shred of legitimacy in the film world, something she has coveted and been denied since the 80s. I guarantee you she worked the phones to get the HFPA to seat her next to Meryl, who probably can't stand the old, haggard slag.

by Anonymousreply 37308/09/2013

I disagree r371/2

Whit had great stage presence, the one you want to finger for that is Mariah who was always a disaster live, even the pristine vocals couldn't stop her being an awkward boring mess.

Cultural influence? Hello, how about American Idol. Not a good thing of course but heavily indebted to Whitney.

by Anonymousreply 37408/09/2013

[quote]In fact, early in her career, Whitney had a Madonna look to her

Whitney was actually very dykey before Clive Davis got ahold of her, and ordered her to femme it up.

by Anonymousreply 37508/09/2013

More of dykey Whitney.

by Anonymousreply 37608/09/2013

Well, when you look and "sing" like Madonna gimmicks are a MUST, otherwise you'd go unnoticed. That's why she had to try incredibly hard while more talented artists didn't. No shame in that.

by Anonymousreply 37708/09/2013

Hello, I'm Lady GaGa. I'm a very serious "artiste", singer and performer. I make Madonna "jealous". I am the inspiration for ALL music of the Western hemisphere including, "This Girl Is On Fire".

I will be popular for a very, very long time because I am taken so seriously by my peers.

by Anonymousreply 37808/09/2013

[quote]The truth is, she didn't really influence the musical landscape...

Really? Who do you think is to blame for the, frankly, annoying big-voiced singing style that has become standard in singing competition shows?

by Anonymousreply 37908/09/2013

R379 nails it. Thread shouldn't progress further.

by Anonymousreply 38008/09/2013

Looks wise it was a good choice to have Whitney appear femme, she suited that look more and looked much better.

That was the beautiful star we knew, it wouldn't have worked otherwise. Just a shame the toll that took on her. :(

Her voice was also somewhat manufactured, not the perfect talent, but Clive Davis whitewashed her and toned down the original blacker Aretha sound she had. Live you would see her more soulful, compared to the safer hit single versions.

by Anonymousreply 38108/09/2013

R377, then why was she allowed to look dykey on her very first album?

by Anonymousreply 38208/09/2013

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by Anonymousreply 38308/09/2013

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by Anonymousreply 38408/09/2013

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by Anonymousreply 38508/09/2013

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by Anonymousreply 38608/09/2013

Gaga is pretender to the throne. Madonna was already christened "Queen of Pop" two decades ago. Unlike Michael Jackson, who gave himself the moniker "King of Pop," the press gave Madonna that sobriquet.

by Anonymousreply 38708/09/2013

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by Anonymousreply 38808/09/2013

[quote]Madonna has sold more than 300 million records worldwide and is recognized as the best-selling female recording artist of all time by Guinness World Records. Time considered her to be one of the "25 Most Powerful Women of the Past Century" for being an influential figure in contemporary music. Madonna is the best-selling female rock artist of the 20th century and the second best selling female artist in the United States, with 64.5 million certified albums. Considered by Forbes and other publications as a cultural icon,[2][3] she is often referred by the international press as the "QUEEN OF POP". In 2008, Billboard ranked her at number two, behind only The Beatles, on the Billboard Hot 100 All-Time Top Artists, making her the most successful solo artist in the history of the chart. She was also inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in the same year. In 2012, she was crowned the "Greatest Woman In Music" by VH1. As of 2013, some sources report that Madonna's net worth has crossed over one billion dollars

by Anonymousreply 38908/09/2013

Madonna, unlike MJ, Whitney or even Janet, released albums with almost every year hence the high total of records sold. The average Madonna album in the 80s and 90s didn't sell as much as an MJ or Whitney album.

by Anonymousreply 39008/09/2013

R392 that doesn't add up. It's been 30 years since her first album was released. She has 12 albums. That's not an album every year. Not even "almost".

by Anonymousreply 39108/09/2013

Mariah is the one who released an album a year. MJ and Janet every 4-5 years, Madge was between that with an album every 2 years.

by Anonymousreply 39208/09/2013

R5, just because people wanted to copy her style doesn't mean that they considered her a beauty. People copied Jackie O and Audrey Hepburn too, but didn't consider them particularly beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 39308/09/2013

"People copied Jackie O and Audrey Hepburn too, but didn't consider them particularly beautiful."

R395 Are you kidding me?

by Anonymousreply 39408/09/2013

R391 needs to give it a fucking rest. You can say all you want about Madonna's success, but the fact remains that she was never that attractive and never that talented. Her big achievement is that she's gotten as far as she has with so little. She's always been so driven with ambition that she will do ANYTHING to stay in the spotlight, will do anything to sell herself. And her attempts to do so are getting more and more pathetic. When she's a granny she'll be going out in public with her crotch and tits and ass hanging out. Pathetic.

by Anonymousreply 39508/09/2013

[quote]was Madonna considered beautiful when she first started?

No. HELL no. Don't make me laugh.

by Anonymousreply 39608/09/2013

[quote]And for the Janbot didn't Janet due an entire video which was just her impersonating her idol Dorothy Dandridge?

Yes, but it was homage because Janet has been a fan of Dandridge for many years, and it was around the time she'd bought the film rights to Dandridge's story. Unlike Madonna, who was just copying Monroe for copying's sake.

by Anonymousreply 39708/09/2013

[quote]Are you saying she's a better dancer than Janet

I certainly hope not. That would be...well...

by Anonymousreply 39808/09/2013

[quote]And unlike that pig Janet Jackson

Pig? Surely you motherfucking jest.

by Anonymousreply 39908/09/2013

[quote]She was never described as beautiful and neither was Janet!

Are you out of your mind? Janet's been considered beautiful ever since she was a child.

by Anonymousreply 40008/09/2013

[quote] Madonna was considered chubby for having some baby fat, what was Janet called then? She was practically obese by comparison around the same time (mid-'80s).

You clearly don't know what "obese" means. You're a fucktard. Even when Janet was at her heaviest in the mid '80s, she wasn't nearly obese.

by Anonymousreply 40108/09/2013

[quote]Janet was considered fat in the 80s and then chubby in the early 90s.

What the fuck? Janet was slim during the janet. era. If you're referring to POETIC JUSTICE, then you're still wrong. She was thick with a round behind, but not chubby.

by Anonymousreply 40208/09/2013

[quote]But Janet was the only one who blew up to become a big fat fucking pig, up and down up and down. We all saw that disgraceful naked photo of her

Kiss my ass...

by Anonymousreply 40308/09/2013

...and my right titty

by Anonymousreply 40408/09/2013

R4101 - Janet looks GOOD!

by Anonymousreply 40508/09/2013

No, back then we never thought Madge was beautiful but she was certainly considered attractive by a lot of people. The same was true for Janet Jackson - never beautiful but certainly considered cute by many.

(Spare me your protestations, Vadge and Jan bots - some of us were there and we remember everything.)

by Anonymousreply 40608/09/2013

R408 - Janet as a beautiful face. When she gets her weight in check, she looks amazing.

by Anonymousreply 40708/09/2013

Janet was a chunky little pig in the 80s and very early 90s. That's why she always wore layers of black clothes. Her brother Michael, of course, was always very slender. I guess a regular diet of 12 year-old cum will keep the weight off.

by Anonymousreply 40808/09/2013

[quote]What the fuck? Janet was slim during the janet. era. If you're referring to POETIC JUSTICE, then you're still wrong. She was thick with a round behind, but not chubby.

You are an idiot. Janet was considered FAT in the 80s and chubby in the early 90s. Are you actually a fan? Because if you were, youd know the janet era was mid-90s.

So shut the fuck up. And this is coming from someone who actually likes Janet.

by Anonymousreply 40908/09/2013

No one had a body like me!

by Anonymousreply 41008/09/2013

[quote]The same was true for Janet Jackson - never beautiful but certainly considered cute by many.

WTF? Put up your dukes, mothafucka...

by Anonymousreply 41108/09/2013

[quote]You are an idiot. Janet was considered FAT in the 80s and chubby in the early 90s. Are you actually a fan? Because if you were, youd know the janet era was mid-90s.

No, my dear. I am JANBOT. NO ONE knows about Janet the way that I do. She was only considered seriously heavy when she gained weight in 2007 for Lee Daniels's film "Tennessee". The role went to Mariah because Janet had album obligations, but she quickly shed the pounds. You're no JanFan if you think the "janet." era was the mid-'90s, because it began in 1993. The DESIGN OF A DECADE greatest hits era was in 1995, which would be the mid '90s. THIS was from the "janet." era...

by Anonymousreply 41208/09/2013

The public has moved on from Janet. Madonna still generates interest and her music still gets played on top 40 radio.

by Anonymousreply 41308/09/2013

[quote]The public has moved on from Janet. Madonna still generates interest and her music still gets played on top 40 radio.

So much interest that her last album has the distinction of having the fastest fall from its (ill-gotten) #1 spot.

by Anonymousreply 41408/09/2013

Delude yourself all you want. Janet was considered FAT in the 80s and chubby in the 90s. To say she wasn't just shows you're trying to re-write history. Janet even talks about how Michael called her a fat bitch all the time.

by Anonymousreply 41508/09/2013

Janet was NOT fat in the 80s.

by Anonymousreply 41608/09/2013

Really, R416? You really want to go there? Madonna has had the highest grossing tours of just about anyone. Miss Jackson, with that horrific Peter Pan snout of hers (and you people want to talk about Madge's plastic surgery?) couldn't fill my backyard which, incidentally is quite spacious and delightful, much less a stadium nowadays.

by Anonymousreply 41708/09/2013

[quote]Delude yourself all you want. Janet was considered FAT in the 80s and chubby in the 90s

Janet Jackson was not considered even remotely chubby in the 1990s. The '80s, sure, but she was pretty much lean throughout the entire decade of the '90s. I've shown you proof, and explained it to you. What the fuck is it that you're not comprehending?

by Anonymousreply 41808/09/2013

She was chunky during the first part of the CONTROL era, but went on a diet and had lost the weight by early 1987, which was about the time of this performance on the AMAs.

by Anonymousreply 41908/09/2013

Not even close R420.

Janet was considered chubby in the early 90s when Rhythm Nation was released. She didn't get "lean" until Love Will Never do, which is why the images from those videos were so shocking. No one was used to seeing a "skinny" Janet.

by Anonymousreply 42008/09/2013

[quote]Miss Jackson couldn't fill my backyard which, incidentally is quite spacious and delightful, much less a stadium nowadays

Oh really? This is Janet playing YAS Arena in Abu Dhabi a couple of years ago. You must have one hell of a big back yard.

by Anonymousreply 42108/09/2013

[quote]Janet was considered chubby in the early 90s when Rhythm Nation was released. She didn't get "lean" until Love Will Never do, which is why the images from those videos were so shocking. No one was used to seeing a "skinny" Janet.

You are so wrong that it's not even funny. RHYTHM NATION was released in 1989. The era lasted from 1989-1991. 1991 was the year the video for LOVE WILL NEVER DO (WITHOUT YOU) was released. She was not fat anytime during that era. She leaned out during the RN Tour, but she was never, ever fat at all during the era.

This Herb Ritts photo of Janet was taken in early 1991. She was not fat, by any means...

by Anonymousreply 42208/09/2013

I remember when Madonna came out. The press talked about her using men to get ahead. Young girls dressed like her.

Remember when her and Michael Jackson went to the Oscars together.

She had a duet with Prince on the LIke A Prayer LP

I always thought Vanity was the hot one, out of all the female singers; even though Vanity 6 were lip singing in concert

by Anonymousreply 42308/09/2013

Yowza

by Anonymousreply 42408/09/2013

Interesting this came up today. Yesterday I was reading an interesting interview with Nile Rodgers about how during the recording of the "Like a Virgin" album, she came up to him one night and asked, "Do you think I'm sexy?" He answered yes, and then she yelled at him, "THEN WHY DON'T YOU TRY TO FUCK ME??!!" The interviewer (obviously a big gay fan) stated, matter of factly, that Madonna at the time (1984) was really beautiful. Nile agreed: "She was Madonna, one of the most beautiful women ever!"

Now please. I was a fan back then, too. But she was NEVER considered beautiful. Cool? Sure. Lots of attitude? Of course? Attractive. Yeah, she was attractive. But beautiful? Never. I don't know of anyone thought she was beautiful. Except for Madonna, of course. The girls dressed up like her because they liked her attitude and image. (Even though, in retrospect, calling yourself a "boy toy" is pretty fucked up and really the opposite of feminism.)

Which brings me to my other point. When she yelled at him, "Why don't you fuck me?" He answered, "Because I'm your producer." And she answered, "That didn't stop the rest of them." So ... was Madonna a victim of incest? Did her father have sex with her? (That would explain the "Oh, Father" song.) Because in my experience, when a woman has such low self-esteem that she will fuck absolutely anyone who asks her, she has usually been molested at a young age. Just a theory, but one that would explain a LOT about Ms. Ciccone....

by Anonymousreply 42508/09/2013

R370 you don't make sense. When you say Cher hasn't had a #1 on the hot 100 "the real deal" in forever, well neither has Vadge. Cher's last #1 on the hot 100 was "Believe" in 1998. Vadge, who is quite a bit younger, had her last #1 with "Music" in 2000.

Cher > Vadge. Cher is still cool despite her age. Vadge is a desperate, miserable woman.

by Anonymousreply 42608/09/2013

R424

I didnt say she was fat during Rhythm Nation, I said she was considered Chubby, and she was. And your photo from 1991 doesn't disclaim what I said. Love Will Never Do without you was released in 1990. If you had reading comprehension skills, you'd see that I said she didn't get thin until that video was shot. Yoru photo was taken AFTER that video.

Try again.

by Anonymousreply 42708/09/2013

[quote](Even though, in retrospect, calling yourself a "boy toy" is pretty fucked up and really the opposite of feminism.)

Yes, but at the time, you have to remember how it was taken. When she did the whole "Boy Toy," thing, it was considered a revelation (and a feminist movement) because it was portrayed as a woman ALLOWING herself to be used as a Boy Toy and therefore, not really being a boy toy, but rather, the boys being her toys. It was some idea about her actually being the manipulator and being in control, and that's why it caused so much attention.

by Anonymousreply 42808/09/2013

Here's Janet posing with Boy George in 1986. She was chunky, but not nearly fat...

by Anonymousreply 42908/09/2013

Talking about Vadge singing live? She can't. Here is 1 of the worst, trashiest, and embarrassing performances ever by a superstar. She along with Anthony Keidis fucking butchered "The Lady Is A Tramp".

PS: I wonder if one of those alleged 11 abortions was from the seed of Keidis?

by Anonymousreply 43008/09/2013

R430, I remember that argument. Being a fan, I even regurgitated it to a friend of mine who was involved with Women Against Rape and Take Back the Night. She was having none of it. She just rolled her eyes and said that the whole owning the fact that you are being used by men and saying that makes you in control was all bullshit. At the time, I bought into it. But now, 30 years later, I realize that my friend was right and it was all bullshit. Madonna was full of bullshit right from the beginning of her career.

by Anonymousreply 43108/09/2013

[quote](Even though, in retrospect, calling yourself a "boy toy" is pretty fucked up and really the opposite of feminism.)

I guess you don't know the meaning of boy toy. It does not refer to the woman but to the man. A boy toy is a man who is used for pleasure and fun; a living accessory of sorts.

by Anonymousreply 43208/09/2013

R429, you've said many wrong things, but one doozy was that the RN album was released in 1990 (it wasn't), and that she was considered chubby during that time. She was not. She was thick, but she was not chubby. She was considered chubby during the early CONTROL era.

Now YOU try again.

by Anonymousreply 43308/09/2013

R433

I'm not saying that the notion is right. And everyone's going to have a different view point. Im just saying that at the time, that's how the majority of people viewed it and that's how it was spun.

by Anonymousreply 43408/09/2013

Janet, not NEARLY chubby, in the very early part of 1990, performing on Peters Pop Show in the UK...

by Anonymousreply 43508/09/2013

Meanwhile, Lady Gaga put on a great live performance with Tony Bennett. BTW has Vadge ever performed at such an event as the Inaugural Staff Ball?

by Anonymousreply 43608/09/2013

R435

Rhythm Nation was released in 1989. My statement "in 1990 when Rhythm Nation was released" isn't wholly inaccurate. I was speaking about 1990 as a collective time period for when that album was out. If you want to be a stickler, then Rhythm Nation was released in September 1989. Regardless, Janet WAS considered fat during Control and Chubby during Rhythm Nation. You obviously don't want to accept that, but anyone during that time period can tell you, that's what the public perception of her was. You can revise it all you want. It's obvious where you're headed.

by Anonymousreply 43708/09/2013

People! Boy Toy is a disparaging term for males, not females. A boy toy is a man who is used for (sexual) pleasure. A woman is not a boy toy.

by Anonymousreply 43808/09/2013

R440, that was the spin. But when SHE was wearing the "Boy Toy" belt buckle, that obviously made HER the Boy Toy. Not the other way around.

by Anonymousreply 43908/09/2013

Remember when Janet kidnapped her own mother?

by Anonymousreply 44008/09/2013

You must be a delusional anorexic, R439. Janet Jackson was not considered fat during CONTROL. Nell Carter was considered fat. Jennifer Holiday was considered fat. Roseanne Barr was considered fat. And you know why? Because they WERE. Janet Jackson, at her heaviest, was still never considered fat, only chunky. Zaftig. During RN, she was noted for her curves (her behind), but she was never considered chubby during the time. Get over yourself.

by Anonymousreply 44108/09/2013

[quote]Remember when Janet kidnapped her own mother?

No. And you know why? Because it didn't happen. Unfortunately we can't say the same thing about the night your mother and father decided to have sex and you were conceived.

by Anonymousreply 44208/09/2013

Agree with everyone. Janet is a fat pig. Always was and always will be. Even her own family called her a fat cow or donkey or whatever.

Fat fat fat fat fat.

Janet never met a donut or cake or triple cheeseburger she didn't like.

Trivia: When I Think Of You was written about Cheesecake.

by Anonymousreply 44308/09/2013

Totally happened. Janet is a kidnapping fat bitch.

by Anonymousreply 44408/09/2013

How did this become a Janet Jackson thread?

by Anonymousreply 44508/09/2013

And remember Janet's disgusting boob? Why the hell were they so saggy and gross? It's not like she ever had to breast feed. You know, since she gave up her kid and made her sister raise it.

by Anonymousreply 44608/09/2013

R445, you can kiss 100% of my natural black ass.

by Anonymousreply 44708/09/2013

How can anyone deny Janet was fat? She's been fat, thin, fat, thin, fat.

Remember that line from Breakfast Club about the name Claire? It's the same as the name Janet. All Janet's are fat. Some are born fat. And some weren't always fat but they become fat.

Janet was born fat.

by Anonymousreply 44908/09/2013

R449

No thanks. Ill let Janet do that. But be careful, she might think its a bone-out ham and swallow the whole thing with that fat mouth of hers.

by Anonymousreply 45008/09/2013

r447

Because Janets so fat she takes up ALL the threads.

by Anonymousreply 45108/09/2013

[quote]And remember Janet's disgusting boob?

Janet's tits are beautiful. Don't hate on hers just because yours didn't take after the horomone shots...

by Anonymousreply 45208/09/2013

Lord, thank you for not only making me beautiful, but for giving me the ability to rise above all of the basic bitches and their obvious innate jealousy of my greatness.

by Anonymousreply 45308/09/2013

Janet not being fat.

by Anonymousreply 45408/09/2013

Oh, come now... Remember how pleasantly shocking Janet looked in the "Love Will Never Do Without You" ? Video She looked great..

Remember when "Bad Girl" peaked at #36?

by Anonymousreply 45508/09/2013

[quote]Janet was born fat.

Not fat, just chunky which, for babies, is kind of the norm...

by Anonymousreply 45608/09/2013

Janets boobs are nowhere near beautiful. Theyre saggy, swollen and just disgusting. Like her father's face.

by Anonymousreply 45708/09/2013

"I don't wanna feel Blooooooooo"

She kinda didn't hit that note very well....

by Anonymousreply 45808/09/2013

R446 is essentially correct about Janet. She's put out some catchy tunes and she's fat, she's a bitch, she kidnapped her mother - and more. Everyone saw it - just let it be, Janbot.

Whatever she did or didn't do, and whatever she weighed when she did or didn't do it, she'll never rise to the vile, self-absorbed, repulsiveness of Vadge. It just isn't possible.

If that means that Janbot wins, then Janbot wins.

by Anonymousreply 45908/09/2013

[quote]Janet, ACADEMY AWARD LOSER

No no no. A loser would never have been nominated at all, like this person here...

by Anonymousreply 46008/09/2013

Lord, thank you for making me really fat and for giving me access to Lipo and Plastic Surgeons. Thank you Lord for giving me the ability to kidnap my mama. Thank you Lord for giving me a sister I could pawn my brat off on. Thank you, Lord. Life is good.

by Anonymousreply 46108/09/2013

Trivia: Love Will Never Do (Without You) was written about Tacos.

by Anonymousreply 46208/09/2013

[quote]Oh, come now... Remember how pleasantly shocking Janet looked in the "Love Will Never Do Without You" video? She looked great.. Remember when "Bad Girl" peaked at #36?

LMAO! Yes we remember VERY well!

by Anonymousreply 46308/09/2013

Any good looks that Janet has was partly because of her plastic surgery.

by Anonymousreply 46408/09/2013

LOL. R453!

by Anonymousreply 46508/09/2013

[quote]Janets boobs are nowhere near beautiful.

But you're a gay man, darling. Your opinion on the matter doesn't count.

by Anonymousreply 46608/09/2013

R466

[quote]Any good looks that Janet has was partly because of her plastic surgery.

And she definitely should have gotten better surgeons, or her money back.

by Anonymousreply 46708/09/2013

[quote]But you're a gay man, darling.

Who said I was gay? Who said I was a man?

No one.

Who said Janet was fat? EVERYONE.

by Anonymousreply 46808/09/2013

I think Janet looked her best during the "Love Will Never Do Without You" video. She was svelte, was wearing flattering clothes and hairdo. That's the only time I can say she looked "beautiful."

Plus, she got to canoodle with a young Antonio Sabato, Jr!

by Anonymousreply 46908/09/2013

why was Vadge's awful performance of "The Lady Is A Tramp" totally ignored? Her career should have been over after that mess. Vadge and Keidis basically made a mockery with that dreck.

by Anonymousreply 47008/09/2013

[quote]Any good looks that Janet has was partly because of her plastic surgery.

Bull and Shit. When this Harry Langdon photo was taken for 1984's DREAM STREET album, she'd only had her nose done and she was gorgeous.

by Anonymousreply 47108/09/2013

Because Madonna was only fat for two or three years in her career. She's been thin ever since. Therefore any of her missteps are forgivable, unlike Janet who's basically been fat over the span of her entire career.

by Anonymousreply 47208/09/2013

R473

I can't help it if you have low standards.

by Anonymousreply 47308/09/2013

[quote]Plus, she got to canoodle with a young Antonio Sabato, Jr!

Mmm hmmmmm....

by Anonymousreply 47408/09/2013

R471, Janet was super toned and hot in the iconic video for "If" as well.

by Anonymousreply 47508/09/2013

Another piece of Trivia:

Miss You Much was written about pizza.

by Anonymousreply 47608/09/2013

Now back to discussion about Madonna's looks please.

by Anonymousreply 47708/09/2013

A buff and fit Janet at Aretha Franklin's DIVAS LIVE in 2001. Fat throughout her entire career? Ha! Bitch, please...

by Anonymousreply 47808/09/2013

Janet? Talk about a bitch who can't sing.

by Anonymousreply 47908/09/2013

[quote]Now back to discussion about Madonna's looks please.

But why?

by Anonymousreply 48008/09/2013

I'll say this. One of my favorite Madonna looks was in her Rain video.

by Anonymousreply 48108/09/2013

R483

I agree. She looked really great in that video. One of my favorites though is Power of Goodbye.

I think she's closer to beautiful when she has a little more weight on her.

by Anonymousreply 48208/09/2013

[quote]Miss You Much was written about pizza.

Nope. However, according to TIME Magazine, it was the #2 biggest selling single of 1989 behind Phil Collins's "Another Day in Paradise". Also, part of the MYM Shep Pettibone remix was later co-opted by Madonna for "Vogue".

by Anonymousreply 48308/09/2013

[quote]Talk about a bitch who can't sing.

Yes, let's talk about her...

(My ears bled after hearing that wretched, cracked [italic]"...meeee...."[/italic] at the end of "This Used to Be My Playground")

by Anonymousreply 48408/09/2013

R484

Yeah, I like her look in Power of Goodbye too. Having Goran in it didn't hurt!

by Anonymousreply 48508/09/2013

I get the feeling that Madonna apologizers are using anti-Janet Jackson posts to co-opt threads that they think are anti Madge. Why would anyone put that kind of energy into puffing up or denigrating either one of these women? No one cares.

by Anonymousreply 48608/09/2013

Christ that was horrendous at R432! Truly embarrassing.

by Anonymousreply 48708/09/2013

lol

by Anonymousreply 48808/09/2013

Neither Madge nor Janet could really sing.

And as for Janet's hairdo being gorgeous in "Love Will Never Do", puh-leese. That was such an obvious, fake-assed wig.

by Anonymousreply 48908/09/2013

This Janbot troll needs to be banned.

by Anonymousreply 49108/10/2013

R443 sez: " Janet Jackson, at her heaviest, was still never considered fat, only chunky."

Oh JANBOT! That was the best laugh you've given all of us since DataLounge began!

Only chunky, folks. Janet Jackson was only chunky!!!

by Anonymousreply 49208/10/2013

R468, would somebody explain to me why Janet has white boobs in that photo? Did she buy them in Switzerland?

by Anonymousreply 49308/10/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 49408/10/2013

The Janet posts are a deliberate effort to distract from the subject of this thread: was Madonna considered beautiful or not?

by Anonymousreply 49508/10/2013

When Vadge debuted, her look wasn't original. In fact, her hairstyles were quite similar to those Pat Benatar, Chrissie Hynde, and Belinda Carlisle from the Go Gos. The bow thing-Belinda was already doing that in 1981 and 1982.

by Anonymousreply 49608/10/2013

r291 Well, Janet of course is a better dancer technically and otherwise. They're very different though and I don't think you can compare them.

It's likely the case that Madonna can't do that heavy robot choreography but one style isn't necessarily better than the other and there are plenty of ways she makes it up and has things that others doing the military choreo lack.

For Janet I've heard some say that she's just good at following moves but lacks the magic and spark of her brother. I think though that you need a bit more than following moves to make it work convincingly like Janet has.

It's a strange thing, motivation must play a part. Britney was once a great dancer (a white Janet, yes) but look how that fell to shit. After the "knee injury" she gave up.

by Anonymousreply 49708/10/2013

I wouldn't quite say dykey, r384, but Clive Davis had issues with how "ethnic" it looked. It's a far cry from how 80s and polished she would soon become.

That album is an 80s classic, still her best, the Mariah debut was almost an exact clone.

by Anonymousreply 49808/10/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 49908/10/2013

R501, neither of those three can compare to Madonna.

Whitney's career was shortlived by comparison and was over 10 years ago. She had to resort to reality TV and the show wasn't even about her.

Britney's was even shorter. She debuted in '99 and by 2004 she was on her own reality TV show. She has never fully recovered from her breakdown(s) and has never been as hot as she once was.

I don't know much about Gaga, but I heard that her last album didn't do so well and she had to cancel tour dates. And she's only in her 5th year.

Say what you will about Madonna, but she has sustained her career for 30 years. Her last three tours were also record-breakers.

by Anonymousreply 50008/10/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 50108/10/2013

[quote]00s - 2050 - Lady Gaga is queen of music

What a second. 2050? By logic of the majority of Gaga's "Monsters" this shouldn't be allowed.

By their standards, Gaga shouldn't be allowed to perform past 2020 because she'll be a gross, old, geriatric, woman who should go away, shrivel up and die.

by Anonymousreply 50208/10/2013

Madonna is so ugly and repulsive to straight guys a song was even written about it.

In O Town's "Liquid Dreams" the guys fantasise about their ideal woman being made up of parts of Destiny's Child, JLo and Janet Jackson. They also want the girl to have a bit of Madonna too, but only her "wild style". So they just want her to be a slut like Madonna, not to look anything like her!

by Anonymousreply 50308/10/2013

R503, why do you keep saying MDNA was Madonna's farewell tour? It was never promoted as such. I think you're just butthurt that Gaga's Born This Way Tour placed #5 to Madonna's #1. In fact, Madonna has two of the Top Ten grossing tours of all time (Sticky & Sweet, MDNA), while Gaga didn't crack the list -- and Gaga, according to you, has dethroned Madonna?

by Anonymousreply 50408/10/2013

[quote]I think you're just butthurt that Gaga's Born This Way Tour placed #5 to Madonna's #1.

I meant MDNA was the #1 tour in 2012 and Born This Way was #5. I worded it weird.

by Anonymousreply 50508/10/2013

I understand now why the soap threads and the prancing ponies threads made people so pissed off. I have no idea what started this whole Madonna/Janet/Gaga thing, but it is the very definition of tedious.

by Anonymousreply 50608/10/2013

There's no point in trying to get Gaga's fans to think of her as anything other than "Queen" and better than Madonna. Which is sort of funny to me because if she's overtaken the throne and is so great, why do they feel the need to even talk about or bring up Madonna? But that's besides the point.

I actually like some of Gaga's music, so I'm not a Gaga hater.But can we point out again that at least there is debate about the level of Madonna's attractiveness and yet there will never be such debate about Gaga? No one, in any point in time, has ever argued that Gaga was Beautiful, Attractive, Cute, or even fuckable.

by Anonymousreply 50708/10/2013

Gaga has the voice, and that's it - hence the costumes, dancing, staging, activism, etc. That's why I think she's completely full of shit - if she didn't have the giant honking schnozz and the Jersey Girl ethnicity that no amount of money and styling can hide, she's be doing Madonna 2.0 in two seconds.

Madonna played up the whole dusky sensuality thing, and then whipped around into fantasy pin up girl and on and on and on - but it was always "whatever you want me to be, boys." Gaga's whole thing is "Like me because it's WRONG not to!!!!" and that never lasts.

by Anonymousreply 50808/10/2013

In short, R510, Gaga is outrageous because she can't be beautiful or even sexy. I'm sure she would love to be the latter, but she could never pull it off. At least at one point Madonna had straight admirers who wanted to bang her. I don't think Gaga has fans who are straight men/boys.

by Anonymousreply 50908/10/2013

Im the lucky, yeas by far.

by Anonymousreply 51008/10/2013

Bingo, R510. I bet even the most rabid of the "little monsters" are confused with Gag's latest appropriation from the Karen Finley handbook with her nude vocal lessons, nude photo shoots and prosthetic limb photoshoots. i get the impression that she is doing all this because she thinks that this is what an "edgy pioneer" should do. Wasn't there a story that she was difficult doing a photo shoot with a UK magazine a few years back because she did not like the wild and risque outfit she had to wear for it?

by Anonymousreply 51108/10/2013

Str8 guys were never really into Madonna. It was only the 'mos who loved her because she was a str8 woman who thought like a gay male.

by Anonymousreply 51208/10/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 51308/10/2013

[quote]This Janbot troll needs to be banned.

For what? Because you are blind in your Janet hatred? Go fuck a duck.

by Anonymousreply 51408/10/2013

Janet used to be Queen, but now she's Goddess of not just music, but of the WORLD!

by Anonymousreply 51508/10/2013

R493 I have to say Janbot has been growing on me. The post at r450 actually made me laugh.

At least Janbot has a bit of style and humour, adding pics to his posts unlike the clueless Mad and Gag bots who just reel off stats and regurgitate the millionth variation on the ever so enlightening sales vs talent vs good music argument like some 12 year old forum poster stanning for his diva.

by Anonymousreply 51608/10/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 51708/10/2013

[quote]Str8 guys were never really into Madonna. It was only the 'mos who loved her because she was a str8 woman who thought like a gay male.

That's not true. Early in her career, many a straight guy found Madonna "sexy" and "fuckable." It wasn't until she became a caricature and popular with the gays (c. 1990) that it was "uncool" to like Madonna. I know, I was there.

by Anonymousreply 51808/10/2013

R5149, that list fluctuates. Let's see where Gaga ranks 25 years from now. For someone who's been in the business 30 years, Madonna at #5 is nothing to sneeze at.

by Anonymousreply 51908/10/2013

The gorgeous Susanna Hoffs blamed Vadge for the rise of shit pop music in a 2008 interview.

by Anonymousreply 52008/10/2013

OP: no.

by Anonymousreply 52108/10/2013

Susanna Hoffs sounds bitter. The Bangles weren't exactly high art, and paled in comparison to The Go-Go's anyway. And she has no one to blame but herself for her shitty solo albums.

by Anonymousreply 52208/10/2013

The Bangles were a good to very good band, especially when they did 60s era pop. They do a really good covers of Simon and Garfunkel's Hazy Shade of Winter and the Grass Roots Where Were You When I Needed

by Anonymousreply 52308/10/2013

R524

Are you saying, "Walk Like an Egyptian" isn't High Art!

by Anonymousreply 52408/10/2013

Walk Like An Egyptian and Manic Monday are utter shit, but their cover of Hazy Shade of Winter fucking rocks. I like it better than Simon and Garfunkel's original.

by Anonymousreply 52508/10/2013

R527

I know. That's why it's funny that Susannah has the nerve to bitch about shit pop music.

by Anonymousreply 52608/10/2013

Here's the quote. I love how Susanna implies Paris Hilton was able to get a record deal (in the mid 2000s) because someone like Vadge paved the way for her:

Susanna Hoffs: I'm more comfortable with myself now, and I think that's true of a lot of women. At the same time, there's a lot of pressure on female performers to represent all that stuff, to represent something sexy, something available. My role models were Chrissie Hynde, Joni Mitchell, Bonnie Raitt; these women were all beautiful and strong to me. Once Madonna became this sort of fashion horse, it became less about the music and more about the clothes, the look, these sexy images. And, unfortunately, that led to Paris Hilton.

by Anonymousreply 52708/10/2013

I think Susanna is right to a degree.

by Anonymousreply 52808/10/2013

In Madonna's defense, she never could have anticipated how influential she would be and how she would set the template for female pop stars for the next 30 years. That really kind of just happened without her direct involvement. At least Madonna had an interesting look and some incredibly good and catchy songs. Unlike Britney, etc. who are basically just talentless and dull.

by Anonymousreply 52908/10/2013

R178, don't foget the Beiber and Alanis Morisette who are half.

by Anonymousreply 53008/11/2013

That's an interesting point, R531. Based on what I've read from other people, it seems like she always knew she was going to be big, but I guess no one ever knows that they're going to become an icon. That just sort of happens. I think that by her feeling insecure in her career--i.e. never feeling safe with her status and therefore needing to adapt and roll with the times--she ended pioneering a lot of things that popstars do today.

by Anonymousreply 53108/11/2013

Even the Vadgealoonies know her legacy and influence hasn't been that positive in the sense of the pop princesses following her.

At the end of the day her music stands up, these were great pop songs that sounded great on the radio as well regardless of the videos being imprinted on your mind first.

She was the first manufactured lip synching video age artist but if the songs didn't stand up she would be over.

Madonna as a singles artist in the 80s was so impeccable that she quickly attained legend status, the foundation of her career that ensured longevity. There's a reason The Immaculate Collection did so well and the public tend to prefer her 80s stuff. She was great in the 90s but less consistent, she became more serious and transitioned to album artist.

Joni Mitchell had a point when she said Madonna knocked the importance of talent out of the arena. Even if she had a sliver of raw talent compared to her 80s peers she still was way better than the acts following her who took her dreams come true ethos and "if she could do it and wasn't the most beautiful or talented then so can I". We ended up with The Spice Girls thanks to her!

Still, talent was never all that mattered and at the end of the day Madonna is a STAR, regardless how she got there. She out sweated the competition as she knew her talent wasn't strong enough, so deserves her career.

by Anonymousreply 53208/11/2013

[quote]Manic Monday (is) utter shit

You have horrible taste. It's not their best single, but they took that Prince song and made it their own.

The Bangles actually have more hits than The Go-Gos. "Walking Down Your Street", "Eternal Flame", "In Your Room"... Their early song "Hero Takes a Fall" is great as well, and was reportedly what got Prince interested in them (well, Susannah) in the first place. I do agree that their cover of "Hazy Shade of Winter" from the LESS THAN ZERO soundtrack is killer. A bit of Bangles trivia: It is them singing the backing vocals in Cyndi Lauper's "Change of Heart".

by Anonymousreply 53308/11/2013

[quote]In Madonna's defense, she never could have anticipated how influential she would be and how she would set the template for female pop stars for the next 30 years

LOL

by Anonymousreply 53408/11/2013

R535

[quote]You have horrible taste. It's not their best single, but they took that Prince song and made it their own.

They made it their own? It sounds practically identical to the Demo version.

And this demo clearly disproves the notion that Vanity could sing.

by Anonymousreply 53508/11/2013

[quote]The gorgeous Susanna Hoffs blamed Vadge for the rise of shit pop music in a 2008 interview.

Funny. Maybe she's just pissed that her husband put Madonna on the Austin Powers' soundtrack and not her.

by Anonymousreply 53608/11/2013

[quote]And this demo clearly disproves the notion that Vanity could sing.

You're pretty dumb. That's APOLLONIA in that demo. "Manic Monday" was originally supposed to be on the APOLLONIA 6 album, but Prince decided to give it to The Bangles instead.

Vanity was no singer, but the further along she went, the better she got.

by Anonymousreply 53708/11/2013

[quote]You're pretty dumb. That's APOLLONIA in that demo. "Manic Monday" was originally supposed to be on the APOLLONIA 6 album, but Prince decided to give it to The Bangles instead. Vanity was no singer, but the further along she went, the better she got.

I meant Apollonia.

However, neither Vanity or Apollonia could sing. As far as Vanity getting better the further along she went... she didn't make it anywhere, so yeah.

by Anonymousreply 53808/11/2013

[quote]As far as Vanity getting better the further along she went... she didn't make it anywhere, so yeah.

Because of her drug habit. If not for it, there's no telling where she would have gone. She was far more talented and beautiful than Madonna, that's for sure. Difference was, Madonna didn't have a serious issue with drugs.

by Anonymousreply 53908/11/2013

[quote]She was far more talented and beautiful than Madonna, that's for sure. Difference was, Madonna didn't have a serious issue with drugs.

That's completely debatable and subjective, especially about the beautiful part. I don't find her particularly attractive and I think her voice was any better than Madonna's.

Now can we talk about a Prince protege that actually had talent?

by Anonymousreply 54008/11/2013

[quote]she never could have anticipated how influential she would be and how she would set the template for female pop stars for the next 30 years

Who, Lady Gaga? She's the only one that I've seen that people may have a valid point when speaking on who Madonna has influenced (and even she's taking it a bit far sometimes, as there are many iconic artists who have obviously inspired Gaga, from Springsteen to Grace Jones to Bowie). As for someone inspiring female pop stars who followed her, Janet has proven just as influential over the years, if not more. Artists from as far back as Tiffany...

by Anonymousreply 54108/11/2013

...

by Anonymousreply 54208/11/2013

...to Britney have obviously been influenced by Janet.

by Anonymousreply 54308/11/2013

[quote]That's completely debatable and subjective, especially about the beautiful part. I don't find her particularly attractive

Well, you are a gay man, correct? Even still, you'd have to be pretty blind...

by Anonymousreply 54408/11/2013

[quote]Well, you are a gay man, correct? Even still, you'd have to be pretty blind...

Yeah, thanks for confirming. Madonna was better looking that.

by Anonymousreply 54508/11/2013

How has this stupid ass thread about Vadge's "beauty" reached almost 600 posts in 5 days? Is it still 1987?

by Anonymousreply 54608/11/2013

Wow at the Vadgestan troll. There's no comparison in terms of looks-Vanity was 1 of the most beautiful women to step foot in hollywood while Vadge is one of the most average. I'm gay too but damn I know a beautiful woman when I see one. Vanity-yes, Vadge-HELL NO.

by Anonymousreply 54708/11/2013

[quote]Is it still 1987?

Is that what brought you in here?

by Anonymousreply 54808/11/2013

Vanity always looked like a cheap, slutty, drug addicted, wet rat. Turns out she was.

by Anonymousreply 54908/11/2013

R494

[quote]Only chunky, folks. Janet Jackson was only chunky!!!

I love you for that.

by Anonymousreply 55008/11/2013

R551 you can't take away Vanity's stunning face. Vadge looked like a low-rate hooker from day 1. Now that she looks like an old, used up whore.

by Anonymousreply 55108/11/2013

R553

Yeah, but people are still paying for Madonna so why wouldn't she still be a whore?

Vanity, not so much.

by Anonymousreply 55208/11/2013

this is a thread about beauty, not success. Vadge's desperate need to be viewed as "hot" makes her look worse and worse as she ages. When she was younger it was sad but more acceptable.

by Anonymousreply 55308/11/2013

R535 - Plus, there's If She Knew What She Wants. It's written by Jules Shear, but the Bangles made it their own.

by Anonymousreply 55408/11/2013

[quote]Yeah, thanks for confirming. Madonna was better looking

The only thing confirmed is that you are a complete nutcase if you think that Madonna Ciccone is a better-looking woman than Denise "Vanity" Matthews.

by Anonymousreply 55508/11/2013

R552 is butthurt because the woman he obsesses over (HAGdonna) is now, and has always been, a butt-ugly, gap-toothed whore with man-hands and less talent than a three-legged dog in a circus act.

by Anonymousreply 55608/11/2013

I do love how often we talk about which women we find hot here. It makes you wonder how quickly we could turn and how fluid sexuality really is.

by Anonymousreply 55708/11/2013

It's interesting that people who light up like Christmas Trees in threads like this don't realize that they're obsessed with someone they claim they cant' stand.

Do people this crazy ever realize they are?

by Anonymousreply 55808/11/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 55908/12/2013

R542.

Obscure Prince protege extraordinaire...she channeled Marilyn in "Purple Rain" years before Madonna, oh how should one put this, "co-opted" the look.

by Anonymousreply 56008/12/2013

Where nearly there cunts! Let's go for 600.

by Anonymousreply 56108/14/2013

Again, a thread for Madonna nearing 600. Gaga has her abortion of a song out and nearly no threads on it. Even her ghouls are quiet. Says quite a lot.

by Anonymousreply 56208/15/2013

R562, that's more reminiscent of Saraghina from "8 1/2" ("NINE") than Marilyn.

by Anonymousreply 56308/15/2013

Played out old cunt.

by Anonymousreply 56408/15/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 56508/16/2013

r567 is the Little Nutter who just bumped the "The cover for Lady Gaga's new single APPLAUSE" thread and called Gaga "The Queen of Pop. He also bumped the "Madonna has had a successful life" thread and wrote: "The Old Gray Mare, She Ain't What She Used to Be."

Yes, Virginia, there really is an anti-Madonna troll!

by Anonymousreply 56608/16/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 56708/16/2013

R568 What do you expect from Gaga's Ghouls? The pathetic thing is probably living in his mothers basement, jobless, fat, and angry that he isn't going to have money to buy FartPlop when it comes out, even in the .99 cent sale bin. He obviously has nothing better to do.

by Anonymousreply 56808/16/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 56908/16/2013

r569= r571. Little Nutter.

by Anonymousreply 57008/16/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 57108/16/2013

Even though Madonna irks me on many occasions, there is no question that she is THE True Queen of Pop. Lady GaGa, Katy Perry, Britney, Nicki, Rihanna, are all just diluted flankers of Madonna. I will admit that Lady GaGa is the most talented of all the flankers though, and could possibly evolve beyond being a Madonna flanker since the talent is there, but she needs to focus on her music instead of going for the shock value like Madonna always did, I would respect her more for doing so.

Madonna was not an innovator really, but she knew how to put her own twist on things and make them her own. Madonna was a pretty girl who had lots of vivacious charm when she was younger(hard to believe now right?)& she was fun & flirtatious which no other female entertainer was like at that time, young girls connected with her, boys had a crush on her, gays idolized her, her fame was massive, but what kept her at the top for many years afterwards was her ability evolve & roll with the punches, and she is a brilliant business woman, no question about that.

It is her business sense that really sets her apart from other entertainers. Madonna knew how to work the media like no other. If you respect Madonna for nothing else, you have to respect the way she played the game.

by Anonymousreply 57208/16/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 57308/16/2013

Back to the subject of this thread: "was Madonna considered beautiful when she first started?"

Look at pictures of her when she "first started." She was an ordinary looking young female. And HAIRY. Hairy pits, facial hair, a veritable forest between her legs (she did explicit nude photos, one of them with her legs splayed open). Nothing special or extraordinary about her at all. She couldn't even really be called pretty. I don't anyone at all would have considered her "beautiful." And THAT is the honest to God truth.

by Anonymousreply 57408/16/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 57508/16/2013

Lady Gaga is the Queen of Pop? That's interesting seeing as how Katy Perry's single just basically kicked her ass.

by Anonymousreply 57608/16/2013

Lady Gaga peaked with Bad Romance. Her career is on the decline. I've been saying this for over a year now. Now hopefully her Little Monsters will seek the therapy they so obviously need.

by Anonymousreply 57708/16/2013

and how about no. She relies on specific makeup/styling and lighting. On her own she's quite ordinary. Her big eyes and skin were her best natural features. The nose and teeth really make it impossible for her to be beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 57808/16/2013

You want to talk about nose and teeth?

by Anonymousreply 57908/16/2013

1985...hell nah!

by Anonymousreply 58008/17/2013

When she's not captured in the right angle, her face and nose appear bird-like:

by Anonymousreply 58108/17/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 58208/17/2013

Well Gaga is not attractive so the costume better be worth looking at music videos created the demand for attractive artists. Many of the best old singers, icons from another age would not be famous today no matter how good their voices if they did not look good on camera. And that is fucked up.

by Anonymousreply 58308/17/2013

[quote]In Madonna's defense, she never could have anticipated how influential she would be and how she would set the template for female pop stars for the next 30 years. That really kind of just happened without her direct involvement. At least Madonna had an interesting look and some incredibly good and catchy songs. Unlike Britney, etc. who are basically just talentless and dull.

No but what she did do is everything she could think of to make people focus on her presentation rather than her music. And that has been the biggest influence for both men and women who want to do music and that is why everyone now is talentless and dull.

by Anonymousreply 58408/17/2013

[quote]The nose and teeth really make it impossible for her to be beautiful.

Her nose was never really a problem. She likely tweaked it 2 or 3 times, but unlike most celebs she actually looks like the person in the yearbook pics. The nose wasn't a huge honker like a good deal of them.

If she fixed the nose, you'd think she'd get the teeth done. But I somehow can't imagine her without the gap. In the 80s it wasn't usually that big cause she used a gap tooth plug thing, but circa Ray of Light she looked like hell.

I don't think she had that much work done compared to other celebs, she always looked pretty real. Even when she clearly had been worked on circa Hung Up it was very subtle, high quality work. Only recently has she went too far.

by Anonymousreply 58508/17/2013

But Madonna was a revolutionary, r586, pushing people's buttons, challenging people's prejudices and how a woman should behave!

by Anonymousreply 58608/17/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 58708/17/2013

[quote]80s - 90s Whitney was pop queen 90s - 00s Brtiney was queen of pop 00s - 2050 - Lady Gaga is queen of music neither of those three can compare to Madonna.

Madonna defenders keep pointing to the length of Madonna's career as if that is the benchmark for great talent. Having a great talent does not guarantee a long career, sometimes it does, but it does not always work that way.

Having a long successful career does not mean you are the best at what you do. Having the longest career does not mean you are the best at what you do. All it means is that people bought what you were selling and if it is cheap and easy they will keep buying it.

There are plenty of amazing talents that did not have the length of career Madonna has that does not make Madonna more talented or better.

by Anonymousreply 58808/17/2013

[quote]She fell somewhere in between Bananarama's Karen Woodward and Thompson Twins' Jane Shorter.

Love it! She was actually best friends with Alannah Currie back in the day.

by Anonymousreply 58908/17/2013

-

by Anonymousreply 59008/17/2013

[quote]She was also considered fat. Seriously - she was pretty soft and rounded. Keep in mind this was the era of anorexic supermodels and before the proliferation of fake boobs.

She was called that, like the joke in Pulp Fiction. But she was never fat, or even overweight, her build is normal if not naturally slender. Her weight fluctuated and she was very gaunt in the pre-fame nudes.

As we know in looks there are two types of people: sexy and beautiful. Some can be both, but it's more important to be sexy and have sex appeal. An example on the male side would be Ryan Gosling, not technically the best looking but sexy as hell.

Straight guys liked her in those early days cause she was a slut but also cause she exuded sex, even if in an obvious way, with her (false) confidence and swagger.

Also she was accessible and that's why average looking people do well in the getting laid stakes, often with people out of their league who also can't resist the sexiness and how confident they are. It isn't necessarily about looks. People find the perfect model types intimidating, someone sexy but, crucially, attainable is good enough.

by Anonymousreply 59108/17/2013

R592 good grief! What a horrible sounding performance. Then again with Thompson Twins and Vadge, that shouldn't be a shock.

Vadge's biggest act of fraud has been convincing her fan base and the media that she is A) talented and B) beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 59208/17/2013

"But Madonna was a revolutionary"

Not really. She used sex to achieve her aims. Many, many females before her did THAT.

The only message that Madonna has conveyed during her long career is this: "it's ok to be a slut! It's empowering!" Of course Madonna went a long way by spreading her legs for everyone who could further her career, but I don't think many young women benefited from her influence. For most women, being a slut is anything but empowering.

by Anonymousreply 59308/17/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by Anonymousreply 59408/17/2013

[quote]was Madonna considered beautiful when she first started?

There must be someone here was was around in the 1920s and Cantrell us.

by Anonymousreply 59508/17/2013

pics of her old and young

by Anonymousreply 59608/17/2013

we need a new thread.

by Anonymousreply 59708/17/2013

Amazing to see that a thread about such a ridiculous concept. Ciccone's appearance never touched "beauty" - even.

by Anonymousreply 59808/17/2013

Bump.

by Anonymousreply 59909/23/2014

She was never considered "beautiful."

by Anonymousreply 60009/24/2014
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