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My New York is gone

I feel like the last one left at the party. Everyone has died or moved away. I've lived in the same rent-controlled apartment since 1975. I had so much fun in NY in the 1970s. I was young and carefree. I hung out at the greatest places -- got into Studio 54 a few times, shows at CBGB/OMFUG, amazing memories at Tunnel. The 1980s were even better. I don't know how I'm still here. Everyone moved away. Got families or different jobs. I walked into my apartment today, the same one I've had where all these good times happened, and I felt so achingly alone. I don't know who my neighbors are. The only mainstay is the old woman who lives downstairs, who has been old since I first moved in. When she dies I think I might seriously lose it. Nothing is the same. Times Sq. looks like a Pottery Barn catalogue. The Village and Soho look like suburban mini malls. Nothing is the same, it's worse.

by Anonymousreply 21904/22/2014

You're welcome.

by Anonymousreply 107/25/2013

Don't worry, I'll bring it back.

by Anonymousreply 207/25/2013

Mary!

by Anonymousreply 307/25/2013

Huh? The Village does not look like any kind of suburban mini mall, particularly the East Village. It is still The Village. And New York has been changing all the time. It has not been like it was in the 80's SINCE the 80's or the 90's. Did you not think these things during each of the past two decades? I mean, did you just wake up from a coma and realize that New York had "changed?"

by Anonymousreply 407/25/2013

Aging is the thing that brings this awareness. It's normal. It's always a downer.

by Anonymousreply 507/25/2013

OP during your hayday many NYers were lamenting the same thing. Cities are constantly changing.

by Anonymousreply 707/25/2013

OP = early onset dementia.

by Anonymousreply 807/25/2013

Can I have your apartment, OP?

by Anonymousreply 1007/25/2013

Cold are the hands of time that creep along relentlessly, destroying slowly but without pity that which yesterday was young. Alone our memories resist this disintegration and grow more lovely with the passing years. Heh! That's hard to say with false teeth!

by Anonymousreply 1107/25/2013

that's what I thought, R10

by Anonymousreply 1207/25/2013

how much is your rent OP? in what hood?

by Anonymousreply 1307/25/2013

Is this an extension of the "Let's All Pretend We're New Yorkers" thread? If not, you just supported their entire satirical raison d'etre.

by Anonymousreply 1407/25/2013

Here's a peppy song to cheer you up, OP!

by Anonymousreply 1507/25/2013

My apartment is in Washington Mews. I adore it and can't believe I live here...found it in 1974.

by Anonymousreply 1607/25/2013

ahhhhhh.... boo fucking hoo

You're as happy as you make up your mind to be.

by Anonymousreply 1707/25/2013

You sound like an old bachelor OP.

by Anonymousreply 1807/25/2013

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit, Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

by Anonymousreply 1907/25/2013

Do you really want a neighborhood Where people piss on your stoop every night?

by Anonymousreply 2007/25/2013

I share many of the same experiences as you, OP. Moved to New York in 1975. Lived on the USW pre-gentrification for two years and then moved to no mans land in the East Village. 7th between C&D. I loved hanging out at Danceteria, The Mud Club, St. Marks Bar. We got to see a young and stunning Debbie Harry front Blondie, The Ramones, Richard Hell, Television, Madonna and so many more. It was grimy, real, dangerous and fun. And everyone knew each other. My block had a pot spot in an abandoned building and you put the money through a slot and got back a real nickle bag of killer weed for five dollars. Now the East Village is a glorified vomitorium. Predatory Frat Boys. Women who are so drunk they can barely stand trying to navigate the streets in five inch stilettos. And there are still the takers who live in the projects on Ave. D who use these idiots as their personal ATM's when they stumble home in a drunken haze at four A.M. It must be like shooting fish in a barrel. And I don't feel sorry for them one bit. Don't know how to make you feel better about your circumstances but as the curse goes "May you live in interesting times". And we did.

by Anonymousreply 2107/25/2013

I agree in spirit with R9.

I don't live in NYC, but I spend at least a week in the city every year. (When I was young, one of our family vacations every year was to NYC to visit my mother's family. Now I have to go up for work.)

I would have hated to live in NYC during the 60s and 70s. If I could choose an era, it would have been either the Old New York of Wharton or the 30s and 40s.

But hippies, drugs in the street, bell bottoms, etc? You can have them.

by Anonymousreply 2207/25/2013

And Death, Capital D, shall be no more, semi-colon. Death, Capital D comma, thou shalt die, exclamation mark!

by Anonymousreply 2307/25/2013

Carrie.

What happened to Samantha, Charlotte and Miranda?

by Anonymousreply 2507/25/2013

What a beautiful thread. New York is dead!

by Anonymousreply 2607/25/2013

This reads to me as the stripping of cool and the embalming of a once-exciting city that are specifically disturbing, not the passage of time.

by Anonymousreply 2707/25/2013

I'm only 30 so I never saw the "artsy" NYC, and when I visited for the first time a few years ago, I couldn't figure out how a "regular" person could afford to live there (even outside Manhattan). It just seems SO expensive and more like a millionaire/billionaire playground.

by Anonymousreply 2807/25/2013

The 'me me me' New York trolls are why this website is dying. No one cares.

by Anonymousreply 2907/25/2013

OP, NYC died when they closed the Adonis Theater.

by Anonymousreply 3007/25/2013

I met someone who is living in my grandfather's old Lower East Side (what it was called in grandpa's day) apartment. For the same walkup, 1 bedroom, railroad flat, rattrap that my grandfather paid 89 dollars a month for up until the 1990s this schmuck is paying almost 4 grand a month.

Very rich and very stupid people killed NYC.

by Anonymousreply 3107/25/2013

Read "The Return" by Brad Boney, it is a m2m romance novel that is so much more than that... it is two stories, one set in 2013(in Austin, TX) and the other in the early to mid 80's( in NYC).

Really a well written book , in my opinion, but at times it just got me crying my eyes out.

by Anonymousreply 3207/25/2013

R14 beat me to it.

by Anonymousreply 3307/25/2013

It's not so much that other places became more like New York but that New York basically became like everywhere else.

It still has great energy but you'd be fooling yourself if you think it's remotely edgy anymore.

by Anonymousreply 3407/25/2013

Liza! is that you at op? Call me dear. You sound blue.

by Anonymousreply 3507/25/2013

Los Angeles here. Was nice to grow up here and it's no longer as nice.

People keep coming here and it's crowded and poorly run. Roads need repair and all the taxes go for public servants' pensions and multiple raises when everyone else trying to keep their jobs.

NY at least is clean and safer than before.

OP, try a vacation or visiting someone away from New York for a week or two.

by Anonymousreply 3607/25/2013

I can't believe how much my hometown, Fort Worth, Texas, has changed.

Whenever I visit now (I live in NYC now), I don't even recognize it anymore. Everything that made it charming before has been pretty much wiped out, replaced with bigger this and bigger that (thanks to the Bass brothers). Don't get me wrong, change is nice (Bass Hall is especially grand and now all the big Broadway shows that come through Texas no longer skip over Fort Worth in favor of Dallas) and I'm glad downtown actually has a night life now; it's just that I don't recognize anything anymore and don't feel like I'm at home whenever I'm there.

My mother passed early last year (still hurts to write that) and I haven't been back since. Doubt I go back anytime soon.

by Anonymousreply 3707/25/2013

It's not just NY. It's all of America. We are past our prime. Our glory days are behind us.

by Anonymousreply 3807/25/2013

hugs r37, glad you are enjoying NYC.

by Anonymousreply 3907/25/2013

speak for yourself r38...I am in my prime.

by Anonymousreply 4007/25/2013

The West Village is now a big campus for NYU students, and the East Village is now a big campus for Asian NYU students. It's unbelievable.

by Anonymousreply 4107/25/2013

... *wiping a tear* ..

by Anonymousreply 4207/25/2013

R40,*snort* Do you want a cookie?

by Anonymousreply 4307/25/2013

OP = Lexi Featherston

by Anonymousreply 4407/25/2013

The Village of your youth now exists in its modern incarnation in Williamsburg, Brooklyn.

Have you seen the "scene" on the L train?

by Anonymousreply 4507/25/2013

r43 must be Miss Micah, trying to intimidate me with the use of quarter hours and cookies.

by Anonymousreply 4607/25/2013

It's called getting old.

by Anonymousreply 4707/26/2013

And now, nothing is left but caftans and earrings!

by Anonymousreply 4807/26/2013

OP: How poignant... thanks for sharing. Very Holleran....

At some point you start to lose more friends than you make new ones.And the ones you have become more conservative and old too and dont stay out late. So what you gonna do? Go hang out with the young fun people in Brooklyn? And talk about what? Would you enjoy that? Would they want you among them? Everyone misses their 20s. You have to constantly evolve a lifestyle appropriate to your age, experience and needs.

That said, the country has been declining under the increasing income inequality. This has created a conservative city that is less edgy, with less room for people who need to flop around, experiment, risk and perhaps fail. So besides the subjective experience of different generations overall, the city is less interesting today overall. That's just part of our overall decline.

by Anonymousreply 4907/26/2013

Used to live in Park Slope/Windsor Terrace in the 90's. Just went to NYC for a few days and had time to explore extensively the old neighborhood for the first time in 13 years. Not much had changed at all, it was actually nice to see that it had the same character.

by Anonymousreply 5007/26/2013

The phenomenal growth of the finance industry is one of the major reasons why NYC is so expensive.

by Anonymousreply 5107/26/2013

[quote]It's not so much that other places became more like New York but that New York basically became like everywhere else.

I think r34 is dead on. American cities are converging in terms of what they offer by way of commerce, dining, and entertainment. For sure, change in NYC has been constant throughout history, but those changes were by and large unique to NY (while other cities experienced their own specific changes).

In the current phase, NY is morphing into a standard model for a city that all American cities are adopting: multiplexes; enormous chain restaurants; Gap; Starbucks; a local production of Wicked. NYC is just a larger version of Dayton or Hartford or Macon.

It's a combination of American preferences for the comfort of the familiar wherever they go, along with ever-brutal economics rewarding economies of scale. It's sad, but very real.

by Anonymousreply 5207/26/2013

When I read "Dancer from the Dance," I realized he had captured "my" time in NYC perfectly. I was no Malone, nowhere near as hot, but I had some of his experiences.

There were many late nights at the Tenth Floor, David's Loft, and other after-hours clubs that were too fabulous for words. They became the boilerplate for nightclubs across the world. The people I met seemed so interesting to me. There was the hot Cuban guy who lived in that exotic, foreign territory known as "Tribeca" where he fixed exotic Italian sports cars in his loft. There was Potassa de la Fayette, Dali's muse and the drag queen of the moment (actually a very nice Filipino boy) who modeled during the day as a woman for Halston and Sant'Angelo. I remember dancing next to my hustler friend Pablo and his regular "trick" Paul Lynde at the Limelight in Sheridan Square ("She's such a bitch when she drinks," Pablo said.) I remember the old International Stud on Greenwich Street with the back room and "Ladies Who Lunch" playing on the juke box; bodybuilders toking up on angel dust outside (that's what a lot of them used before steroids). Across the street lived a strange guy who went by the name "Richard DuPont." A con man, he was Roy Cohn's ex, and greatest enemy. DuPont (real last name: Grossman) lived on Greenwich across the street from the Stud and, if anyone was around back then, you might remember him. He drove a blood red '66 Bentley and a black '36 Rolls Royce with bug-eye headlights. He'd troll the West Village in these cars and load them up with cute boys. David from the Loft was on record companies' payrolls, and was responsible for breaking "Soul Makoosa" and others, making them FM hits. It was a great time, in retrospect. But everything looks better in retrospect, most of the time anyway.

by Anonymousreply 5307/26/2013

Go to Berlin.

by Anonymousreply 5407/26/2013

I'm sure in the 70s there were people who were around since the 40s and 50s who thought everything changed and went to shit.

OP, if you were a hot, young 22 years old and bouncing around the city you would have an entirely different outlook on everything. It's a generational thing.

by Anonymousreply 5507/26/2013

OP when you got to the city, I bet you overheard complaints about how steak dinners used to be 2 dollars and you could see a Broadway show for 5 bucks..plus all the damn hippies and drugs and the queers shove it in your face etc..

You are probably experiencing a personal passage of time crisis and projecting it onto the city.

Having said that, there are changes to the Times Square district that I could do without.

The death of bookstores is the hardest thing for me to take but that is generational.

by Anonymousreply 5607/26/2013

R55: a hot 22 year old with money.

by Anonymousreply 5707/26/2013

Cities do change, but I fear the changes that are happening to New York (and other interesting cities) in recent years, is something different, something worse. It is destroying the unique, the intellectual, the bohemian and replacing it with the bland and the suburban and at ultra-inflated real estate prices. More money than ever, but zero brains.

by Anonymousreply 5907/26/2013

What a great thread. So many different angles. How the passage of time affects our environment, our perspective, our position in society; the down-side of glabalization & modern economics; reminiscences of 'the good old days' and a cool little slice of history; and of course the requisite immature anti-NYC and anti-whatever trolls who can't see beyond their noses & realize that what they say is kind of beside the point, even if somewhat true.

Keep the stories coming, fellas!

by Anonymousreply 6007/26/2013

Agreed, R58. A few days ago I was on St. Marks between 2/3rd Avenue. look West.. There's this huge glass tower thing looming over it now on St. Marks/3rd where there used to be a Starbucks.

by Anonymousreply 6107/26/2013

And the years go by... and your dreams have lost some grandeur coming true/ There's be new dreams maybe better dreams and plenty before the last revolving year is through..

And the seasons, they go round and round...

by Anonymousreply 6207/26/2013

The towering condos overlooking the patio of the Eagle sadden me.

by Anonymousreply 6307/26/2013

This seems to be a recurring theme with a lot of old time New Yorkers. They actually preferred the city when Times Square was a block of porn shops and you would have to step on used needles or you'd get mugged in Central Park in broad daylight.

I'm not old enough to have visited the city when it was crime central. Was it really that much better?

by Anonymousreply 6407/26/2013

[quote]This seems to be a recurring theme with a lot of old time New Yorkers. They actually preferred the city when Times Square was a block of porn shops and you would have to step on used needles or you'd get mugged in Central Park in broad daylight.

That is the same bullshit we've been hearing for years. NO ONE is saying they prefer crime to safety--this is precisely the false reasoning Giuliani and Bloomberg used to sell this city out from under all of us. The current state of NYC is NOT the only option to crime and filth--it's simply been presented as such by people who stood to profit from it.

I can't believe that a city that endlessly carries on about its sophistication bought into this bullshit. There are many ways to "clean up" a neighborhood without destroying it. Anyone who tells you the "new" Times Square was the only choice is making money off it, to the detriment of every city resident.

by Anonymousreply 6507/26/2013

personally, i have a hunch -- just a hunch -- that all the "luxury" development has killed the goose that laid the golden egg. just by way of illustration, the times ran a story about UPE wealth now wanting a place a downtown. why? cuz the people are more "interesting" down there. wha -- ?? those "interesting" people are GONE, honey. what is everyone going to do when they show up looking for interesting people and just see the same old (lifted) faces?

of course, there is another sensibility driving the development -- suburb backlash. conservative, "straight" people want high-rise, car-free living nowadays. they don't want to live out of cars, and don't want the yard any longer. those people don't care if the "interesting" people are gone. what they want are track homes in the sky.

by Anonymousreply 6607/26/2013

#65 is somewhat right but mostly wrong. Cleaning up the City by itself made it massively more popular. Even if you had little new development you would still see huge rent increases because it’s so much more desirable for people to live in NYC. In fact, some of the neighborhoods that are landmarked and have seen less new development have some of the biggest increases in real estate prices (e.g., Soho, WV and Park Slope).

by Anonymousreply 6707/26/2013

The changing buildings are low on the list of changing New York. What is missing is the plethora or quirky, imaginative, creative free thinkers who were larger than life in the way they lived and the scope of their thought.Corporate America has taken over and the younger generations of New Yorkers are exactly like the younger generations in any large city in the country. The only difference is that they are forced to do things at a faster pace. Farewell to interesting, "Bohemian" NYC. It was a great time. For the rest of you...see you at Starbucks.

by Anonymousreply 6807/26/2013

I didn't mean to set you off r65. I guess what I'm asking is what made that New York so special? Was it really special or was it because you were young and on your own? I think we sometimes remember things better than they were.

by Anonymousreply 6907/26/2013

Nostalgia is a longing for a past that never was- Doris Lessing.

by Anonymousreply 7007/26/2013

it's the same thing everywhere

by Anonymousreply 7107/26/2013

Get some new material.

This narrative was stale in 1999.

by Anonymousreply 7207/26/2013

r65, put down the crack pipe. No one said there are only two possibilities for how the city could be. The conversation is about what it was and is. People are lamenting the loss of a NYC that was free & creative & crime-ridden. Reality set those parameters, not Bloomberg.

by Anonymousreply 7307/26/2013

[quote] what they want are track homes in the sky.

Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 7407/26/2013

[quote]The Village does not look like any kind of suburban mini mall, particularly the East Village. It is still The Village.

Perhaps you don't remember the Village before there were rows of Mark Jacob shops -- alleviated only by Ralph Lauren shops. And in the areas not thus gentrified? We have tee shirt stores, fake headshops and mass market porn. It was not ever thus.

by Anonymousreply 7607/26/2013

r65 makes a damn good point. The corporate masters want you to believe that the only way to make something "safe" is to raise rents and get the "undesirables" out.

You can reduce or even eliminate crime and not have an Applebees or a Disney store in your neighborhood.

by Anonymousreply 7707/26/2013

Fran Lebowitz on a rant about how NYU destroyed the Village. It's worth a listen.

by Anonymousreply 7807/26/2013

Everybody looks at the past with rose colored glasses. NYC IS WHAT IT IS. Your youth was what it was. Everyone everywhere remembers how much "better" it was. Personally, I like to look for "old New York" in its classic architecture and parks and things that are STILL around. There is still a lot of charm and glamour and excitement here, still a great connection to the past. But you can't tell that to curmudgeonly old cunts who harrumph about the good old days.

I walked past the old Limelight (now a store!) the other day and smiled. That old church is still there with the Limelight sign out front, even if it IS a store. I just thought "Man, had some good times there back in the day."

The Monster and the Duplex are still around, too, but only gargoyles go there. Still nice to see the old places slinging drinks.

Lincoln Center, Columbus Circle, The Empire State, The Brooklyn Bridge, the Guggenheim, Washington Square, the Flatiron Building, Central Park...NYC is still a world class city with endless landmarks and a rich history that you could not take in completely in a lifetime. Problems? It has ALWAYS had its naysayers and those who yearned for the good old days. I remember people saying back in the Studio 54 days that the city was "unrecognizable" because of all the discos and party circuit people. THEY longed for the swingin' 60's New York of Barefoot in the Park and Mad Men. And people in that era longed for the New York of the 40's and 50's, of The Stork Club and Toots Shors. And so on.

by Anonymousreply 7907/26/2013

[quote]No one said there are only two possibilities for how the city could be.

Then you're not listening, r73, or haven't been here long. Because that's EXACTLY what we were all told whenever any objection was raised to the Disneyfication of formerly "troubled" neighborhoods. "So, you prefer crack dealers and whores on the street?" It's all anyone had to say in response to legitimate concerns about any neighborhood undergoing corporate-sponsored gentrification--"oh, they just want the homeless people and crack whores back." As if that were the only option other than Mickey Mouse.

by Anonymousreply 8007/26/2013

[quote]Cleaning up the City by itself made it massively more popular. Even if you had little new development you would still see huge rent increases because it’s so much more desirable for people to live in NYC. In fact, some of the neighborhoods that are landmarked and have seen less new development have some of the biggest increases in real estate prices (e.g., Soho, WV and Park Slope).

In what way does this contradict my point about the false proposition presented to this city by the people who sold it to Disney et al?

by Anonymousreply 8107/26/2013

A lot of gay men's nostalgia for a vanished NYC always has to do more with a nostalgia for their gay youth. They miss being handsome young bucks when all the world was theirs and they could get laid all the time. That world goes away for everyone at a certain age.

by Anonymousreply 8207/26/2013

[quote]my point about the false proposition presented to this city by the people who sold it to Disney et al

Start your own thread. This thread is about missing the NYC of a certain era.

by Anonymousreply 8307/26/2013

[quote] My apartment is in Washington Mews. I adore it and can't believe I live here

If you use the word "adore" I lose all sympathy.

by Anonymousreply 8407/26/2013

Fran's rant = 100% correct

by Anonymousreply 8507/26/2013

Sometimes I wonder what the Village and the West Bronx would be like if NYU had kept its campus in the Bronx.

by Anonymousreply 8607/26/2013

New York is no longer yours, it's someone else's now.

by Anonymousreply 8707/26/2013

[quote]Times Sq. looks like a Pottery Barn catalogue.

As opposed to what, Dear? What is this mythical Times Square you long for? Are you old enough to have walked Broadway in the 30's to the early 60's where there were movie palaces with big movies playing? Then you might have a point. Because if your only old enough to been here in the 60's and 70's where the theaters closed or turned to porn and sex shops started infiltrating, and 42nd Street and 8th Ave were actually dangerous to walk down. The 70's was the worst time, crime and filthy streets.

I'll take the revitalization any day. My other bitch is they should have save every theater on 42nd Street and maybe built a big Movie Palace in Times Sq.

by Anonymousreply 8807/26/2013

Bump to laugh at more ancient people whining.

by Anonymousreply 8907/26/2013

BTW, to the idiots who don't know NYC history, the Times Square redevelopment started under Koch in the 80s. It did NOT start in the 90s.

by Anonymousreply 9007/26/2013

Preach it, r65. These fools need to be schooled.

by Anonymousreply 9107/26/2013

Thank you, r68! A neighborhood is defined by the people who live there, not the real estate.

by Anonymousreply 9207/26/2013

r79 lives in a pink Martini glass and thinks she's Holly Golightly. Dream on, Grandma.

by Anonymousreply 9307/26/2013

Patti Smith's overrated book "Just Kids" chronicles that time period in New York that the OP so wistfully remembers. She also views that era as magical and romantic, a period of excitement and creativity that was never seen before or since. A former lover of hers, Sam Shepard, was asked what he thought of Smith's depiction of New York life back then. He commented very sensibly that "it didn't seem romantic at the time...it was just street life."

I don't think that era was nearly as wonderful as the OP (or Patti Smith) remembers it.

by Anonymousreply 9407/26/2013

R94 and Sam Shepard are also living in a dreamland. The reality is somewhere between Smith's and Shepard's portrayals/remembrances. Anyone who believes only one or the other is an idiot. One must take all of these accounts as part of a whole. It would be like someone taking the Warhol Diaries as the one, true accurate recorded of the epoch-- ludicrous.

by Anonymousreply 9507/26/2013

High, high rents, the lack of affordable accommodations is what is killing any interesting city today and making it full of dull and greedy people.

by Anonymousreply 9607/26/2013

Whether New York back then was good or bad is subjective. It's all seen through youthful memories. Almost everyone looks back on their youth with fondness and a sense that it was better than it actually was.

by Anonymousreply 9707/26/2013

R11: A quote from my favorite character in Palm Beach Story--The Wienie King!! My favorite character in my favorite movie!! (If I weren't a straight female living in LA, I'd ask you to leave that bum of a husband of yours and run off... to Palm Beach. We could ask the Ale and Quail (?)Club to chaperone.)

by Anonymousreply 9807/26/2013

[quote]Almost everyone looks back on their youth with fondness and a sense that it was better than it actually was.

Very true, but not necessarily a bad thing.

by Anonymousreply 9907/26/2013

[quote]Very true, but not necessarily a bad thing.

Not for the people themselves who reminisce, no; but for the people who have to listen to the oldtimers like the people on this thread yammer on and whine, it's pretty irritating, since you know what they say is only partially true and they're omitting the bad parts of their memory.

by Anonymousreply 10007/26/2013

I lived in New York in the 80s.....It was horrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 10107/26/2013

NYC is better now. At least you can walk around at night safely unlike before.

by Anonymousreply 10207/26/2013

I moved into Yorkville when it was Germantown. Cafe Geiger, Kleine Kondetori, Ideal restaurant, Bremen House, Bavarian Inn, Karl Ehmers, Elk Candy (marzipan), Salamander shoes (mostly shoes from Germany). There was also the Little Finland bar, Viand, Christine's (a Polish restaurant) and a little Greek restaurant. The drugstores had German greeting card sections.

Now it's all Best Buy, Petco, Brookstone, Duane Reade. There was a decent little Barnes and Noble store where I could always find a good book. It turned into a Barnes and Noble Jr while Barnes and Noble opened a cavernous store on 86 and Lex. A little while later they opened another B&N on 86 between Lex and Third. It was like the B&N solar system. First the Jr closed, then the cavernous one on Lex. There's still one on 86 but I think it's smaller than it used to be.

I miss Azumas, the Bazaar stores, Love Cosmetics, Dramatics, Woolworth's (this past Christmas I had to discard a christmas light set I bought at Woolworth's 25 years ago). I miss the Yorkville Inn, Dorrian's.

There were still lots of signs painted on the sides of buildings from the early 1900s. The whole area was 6 story tenements. Now the tenements are in a minority and may all be pulled down for 40 story buildings. I used to go to a deli where the guy at the register talked exactly like a Bowery Boy.

by Anonymousreply 10307/26/2013

r103, You're a Native New Yorker!

by Anonymousreply 10407/26/2013

This link does not have a skip!

by Anonymousreply 10507/26/2013

To all the people that think this is just a bunch of old people complaining, it's not.

Manhattan didn't used to be 90% chain stores and restaurants.

Manhattan used to have some affordable living.

Manhattan attracted artists and other outsiders who WEREN'T subsidized by their parents.

The Village was once not just an NYU campus.

by Anonymousreply 10607/26/2013

[quote] but for the people who have to listen to the oldtimers like the people on this thread yammer on and whine, it's pretty irritating, since you know what they say is only partially true and they're omitting the bad parts of their memory.

You could close the thread. You're not God's Appointed Schoolmarm, you know.

Or perhaps a mysterious stranger has placed your head in a vise and is FORCING you to read this thread? Oh, the horror and the suffering you must feel!

by Anonymousreply 10707/26/2013

R106 is 100% correct. Some people don't get it.

by Anonymousreply 10807/26/2013

R11, please permit me to doubt that your "hands creep along."

by Anonymousreply 10907/27/2013

r109: Re (r11)-- This is a word for word quote from the 1940s movie "Palm Beach Story" written and directed by the great Preston Sturges. If you have problems with the dialog, I suggest you contact him (though he's been dead a while).

by Anonymousreply 11007/27/2013

[quote]Manhattan attracted artists and other outsiders who WEREN'T subsidized by their parents.

This. Honest to god, I don't think there is anyone in NY who is under 30 who isn't being subsidized by their parents. Of course, that's always happened in NY but ever since the late 90s it just seems like it's everyone.

by Anonymousreply 11107/27/2013

What is up with that weird poem?

by Anonymousreply 11207/27/2013

I miss old New York too, especially my gorgeous Brooklyn Heights apartment.

by Anonymousreply 11307/27/2013

this is for r113:

Meet Cathy, who's lived most everywhere, From Zanzibar to Barclay Square. But Patty's only seen the sight. A girl can see from Brooklyn Heights -- What a crazy pair!

by Anonymousreply 11407/27/2013

I've been in NYC for almost 20 years.

I love it here. Haven't been happier anywhere else. Not sure where I'd go if I had to leave.

This spring I returned to Paris, where I moved from. I hadn't been back in all that time.

I was stunned by the changes. Yes, certain places don't alter architecturally, but nothing is static. It was not the city I remembered. The visit jolted me, but once I got over the shock and the realization that the city I remembered now exists only in my memory and present imagination, I had a great time. The food! The wine! Even the people! (Who were friendlier, incredibly. Much, much friendlier. Even the French can change.)

We can bitch about the chain stores and restaurants, and NYU, and Times Square Disneyland, and the eradication of bookstores, record shops and a thriving Off-Broadway where real plays could get done and clubs where bands and stars-in-the-making were discovered in person, not online. And being New Yorkers, we do.

But we also now have the High Line, safe walks in Central Park at night, Governors Island, bike lanes, cigarette-free bars and restaurants (beloved by us non-smokers), safe mass transit (and three cheers for the electronic subway timers!), more public spaces (often with more public art), all in addition to access to world-class museums, music, theater, film (try finding the great documentaries and indie films at multiplexes in the suburbs...), sports teams and fashion.

All the great cities will change. They must to survive, to continue to be great. NYC included.

by Anonymousreply 11507/27/2013

yeah.. what are you gonna do?

by Anonymousreply 11607/27/2013

I remember watching movies when I was a kid in the 80s about how artists moved to New York to attempt to achieve their dreams and become famous. They were poor, they lived in shitty apartments but they had the opportunity to prove themselves by succeeding.

I moved there in 2005 and it was nothing of the sort. I worked 60+ hours a week in law just to afford my rent and I didn't even live in Manhattan. It was nice. It was clean. I felt safe but damn it I feel robbed I never got to see a street battle using dance as a weapon.

by Anonymousreply 11707/27/2013

I escaped to NYC from a podunk, hateful backwater 40 years ago. I still love it, but it's painful to watch old haunts disappear. And yes, the city will always change, but streets like Bleeker turning into Madison Ave. South is sad.

I thought my first Village apt. was overpriced at $250 a month.

I try very hard not to start so many sentences with "This used to be."

by Anonymousreply 11807/27/2013

Come to Harlem, sugar! We got the best fried chicken and waffles in town!

by Anonymousreply 11907/27/2013

I liked that NYC is cleaned up and safer now, but I do NOT like how it's basically only for rich people now and how all the shopping is chain stores just like everywhere else.

by Anonymousreply 12007/27/2013

so where do the poor artist types go?

by Anonymousreply 12107/27/2013

(103) Ideal ! Yes we called it the Pepsi German because of the sign. Good food since 1933. Weiner schnitzel. My fav was the brats. Elisabeth and Margaret were the 2 waitresses. 3 fav vignettes

Thin old guy ate lunch there, alone at the 2-top in front of the upstairs seating area. Eye patch, crippled arm, sat bolt upright. Looked like Kenneth mars in young Frankenstein. You knew what war and what side he got those scars on.

Two New York young Jewish actor types, one says "you gotta try their latkes". So guy says "I'll have the latkes ... With sour cream". Elisabeth says "ve do not serve sour cream vith our potato pancakes ... Ve serve applesauce!"

A whole bunch of friends went to see the Treasures of Dresden at the Met and several guys brought their kids. One kid looked very blond German (they were Swiss). Kid ordered brat platter and it came with sauerkraut but he didn't eat it. Margaret said "you didn't eat your sauerkraut" and he said "no" and she said "eat your sauerkraut" and took everyone else's plates. He dad gave him a look like "I'm not saying anything" and the kid ate all his sauerkraut. Then we had struedel.

Wonderful place.

by Anonymousreply 12207/27/2013

R122, you have broken the unspoken rule of DL. All comments must be able to be said in one breath.

by Anonymousreply 12307/27/2013

[quote]But we also now have the High Line, safe walks in Central Park at night, Governors Island, bike lanes, cigarette-free bars and restaurants (beloved by us non-smokers), safe mass transit (and three cheers for the electronic subway timers!)

Well, if that isn't a list of absolute bullshit nobody ever wanted or even asked for, except for perhaps the smoking thing, I don't know what is. THAT LIST is what's wrong. THAT LIST is not what makes a great city. It's suburban garbage for boring people who should stay in the suburbs. Who gives a fuck about bike lanes and subway timers? What sane person would ever want to walk through Central Park at night?

by Anonymousreply 12407/27/2013

I'm curious how OP could love the 80s. AIDS made the 80s a living nightmare for most gay men, poz or neg. As Rupert Everett wrote, it was like living behind a glass wall.

by Anonymousreply 12507/27/2013

R123

Yes, but now it's on the Internet and the Internet never forgets. Immortality achieved.

Late night dumplings at the Hunan Taste at #1 Doyers Street.

I loved the opening scene of the Nance because my aunt took me to the automat when I was a kid. She brought a roll of nickels and we had lunch.

And the bookstores! Rizzoli's ... Isn't that Henri bendel now? Scribners was Scribners. B&n sales annex. And all the used bookstores on broadway downtown. At least the Strand survives.

It's all good. Once upon a time. And I was there.

by Anonymousreply 12607/27/2013

That's what I want to know, R121

Or do those people simply not exist anymore -are they just working at shitty jobs, maybe two, just to survive, the world of being creative completely out of reach?

by Anonymousreply 12807/27/2013

R124,

The success of these projects and initiatives say far more than your naysaying rant. I didn't say that those are the only reasons the city has changed in a positive way, but guess what? PEOPLE LIKE THOSE CHANGES. And if you don't, you need not take part. You can ignore the electronic timers on the subway (though most of us find those very helpful), you can avoid the High Line and Governors Island, and you need never, ever get on a bike.

We are catching up with some of the great European cities, which have most of these things.

And for those of us who live near Central Park (and I do), it's great to be able to use the park in the evenings. Many people do.

I've lived and worked on three different continents, so you can take your smug comment about suburbia and stick it up your snobby ass. I stand by my comments, which stated that the city was already great, and making it more livable and enjoyable does not make it less so.

I think you don't like these changes because it makes the city too accessible, too user-friendly. That's okay. You can leave. Detroit is waiting with open arms.

by Anonymousreply 12907/27/2013

R127, may a drone hit you during the night.

R121 and R128,

It's almost impossible to be a starving artist here now. Many struggle to survive with a regular job. You have to be as creative about how you earn your living as you are with your creative life.

Sadly, what I'm noticing in theater is that a huge chunk of the industry is made up of young people with family money who don't have to worry about making rent as they make their way. Especially the directors and the younger producers. Actors still come from all walks, but how long they can stay in the game is often determined by harsh financial realities. With so many people in theater coming from financially entitled backgrounds, there's no question that the kind of work that is being created and supported will be affected accordingly.

by Anonymousreply 13007/27/2013

Yes, I left you with the same stores and restaurants that are in Peoria. So, get over yourselves.

by Anonymousreply 13107/27/2013

You know that New York is over when people stand in line in front of Dominique Ansel bakery in Soho for hours just so they can say they ate their cronuts.

As someone who has lived in NYC for almost 20 years this makes me bow my head in shame.

by Anonymousreply 13207/27/2013

Bleecker Street.

by Anonymousreply 13307/28/2013

[quote]so where do the poor artist types go?

This will come as a shock to DL-Nyers but it's possible to be creative in other places.

by Anonymousreply 13407/28/2013

[quote]Sadly, what I'm noticing in theater is that a huge chunk of the industry is made up of young people with family money who don't have to worry about making rent as they make their way. Especially the directors and the younger producers. Actors still come from all walks, but how long they can stay in the game is often determined by harsh financial realities. With so many people in theater coming from financially entitled backgrounds, there's no question that the kind of work that is being created and supported will be affected accordingly.

R130 is spot on as an example of what is happening in theater. I'd add that many of the actors are being supported by family money - remember they are going to Ivy League schools...for ACTING!

by Anonymousreply 13507/28/2013

[quote]What sane person would ever want to walk through Central Park at night?

You're not a real NY'er.

by Anonymousreply 13607/28/2013

[quote] I stand by my comments, which stated that the city was already great, and making it more livable and enjoyable does not make it less so.

These changes (and others you don't mention) are coming at a cost and that cost is what made this city interesting in the first place. That is what posters on this thread are pointing out.

And for the record I agree with the ranter.

by Anonymousreply 13707/28/2013

[quote]electronic timers on the subway (though most of us find those very helpful), you can avoid the High Line and Governors Island, and you need never, ever get on a bike.

I don't believe these were the changes posters were alluding to.

by Anonymousreply 13807/28/2013

R134, no you can't. There is nowhere like New York City. Anywhere else is just that...anywhere else, a justification, a rationalization, a defense. If you want the big dream, the big success, the big fame you come to the Big Apple. It has always been thus and still is.

by Anonymousreply 13907/28/2013

[quote]There is nowhere like New York City. Anywhere else is just that...anywhere else, a justification, a rationalization, a defense. If you want the big dream, the big success, the big fame you come to the Big Apple. It has always been thus and still is.

Why, you could almost set that to music, Liza!

by Anonymousreply 14007/28/2013

Better luck next time, R130.

In the meantime, New York declines further!

by Anonymousreply 14107/28/2013

[quote]There is nowhere like New York City. Anywhere else is just that...anywhere else, a justification, a rationalization, a defense. If you want the big dream, the big success, the big fame you come to the Big Apple. It has always been thus and still is.

Honestly, aren't you embarrassed at repeating this kind of tripe?

by Anonymousreply 14207/28/2013

[quote]OP, NYC died when they closed the Adonis Theater.

That's because the clientele died, not the city's fault.

by Anonymousreply 14307/28/2013

[quote]I don't know who my neighbors are. The only mainstay is the old woman who lives downstairs, who has been old since I first moved in. When she dies I think I might seriously lose it.

How old is this woman, OP, 115?

Funny because you're the old man to everyone else in your building under 50.

by Anonymousreply 14407/28/2013

New York City isn't for everybody. Thank god.

by Anonymousreply 14507/29/2013

Who are all these people with "Family Money."

They can't fill up a city as large as NYC.

Most rich families do not shower money on their kids except for good schools.

by Anonymousreply 14607/30/2013

I am 50, I was born and raised in The Bronx and have lived in Manhattan since I was 19.

I am as thrilled to be here as I ever was. It was always tough.

On Sunday on Third Avenue while waiting on line to see the new Woody Allen movie I was overcome with nostalgia remembering I did that 35 years ago to see Interiors.

My New York is still here. I found a way to make it work as others have and continue to do.

by Anonymousreply 14707/30/2013

Did you check under the sofa?

by Anonymousreply 14807/30/2013

R146 There are more upper middle class people than you realize.

by Anonymousreply 14907/31/2013

I love R53.

I don't care if it's only half the story, R100... as with any retelling, most people omit the boring parts. And I'm sure at other times they recount the bad times. This thread was about good ones.

p.s. You don't have to listen to anything, not the oldtimers and not the straight cockroaches, on DL. Just click off the thread. Remember?

by Anonymousreply 15008/04/2013

Manhattan is now a playground for the wealthy, international 1%, and that's probably not going to change in our lifetimes. In fact, it's just going to keep getting wealthier and more exclusive.

by Anonymousreply 15108/04/2013

I went back to Manhattan

But my city was gone.

by Anonymousreply 15208/04/2013

When an armpit like Astoria is becoming trendy(not to mention the even uglier Long Island City)you know that Manhattan is for the rich and famous.

by Anonymousreply 15308/04/2013

MY New York disappeared for good the night trashy media sales women started ostentatiously falling off flimsy high balconies in the social Siberia that is Midtown!

by Anonymousreply 15408/04/2013

[quote] Most rich families do not shower money on their kids except for good schools

Your idea of "most rich families" is outdated. They certainly do shower the kids with money. They are building giant houses for their kids out here in the Hamptons like there's no tomorrow (and there may be no land left tomorrow). They want the grandkids to have the same upbringing their children had but don't want them staying in grandpa's house in the summer with him and his third wife. So they build a house for the kids, then they get to see the grand kids all summer without the hassle of living with them until mom and dad can afford their own Hamptons home.

by Anonymousreply 15508/04/2013

I hear you, OP. I've lived here my whole life. In 2007, I moved to another state. I moved back in 2011. I felt such a disconnect from the city, it was the oddest thing. It just seemed so foreign. I know the city is ever changing, but when you're here every day, the change is gradual and you don't notice it quite as much. But four years away, and the difference was astounding.

by Anonymousreply 15608/04/2013

We don't exactly have a country of origin, many of us are rejected my our families, community etc. I can see why OP laments over something that may seem unimportant. Perhaps in a fucked up way, it was 'home'.

by Anonymousreply 15708/04/2013

[quote]When an armpit like Astoria is becoming trendy(not to mention the even uglier Long Island City)you know that Manhattan is for the rich and famous.

Isn't it crazy? LIC is already getting 'luxury' condos and Astoria is pretty much the last neighborhood left, so it is going to be the next Williamsburg. Everywhere else is already gentrified.

Actually, I should say "everywhere else white people feel comfortable living is gentrified, and Astoria is the last neighborhood left in the city where white people feel comfortable, so that will be next."

by Anonymousreply 15808/04/2013

David Bryne chimes in:

[quote]The city is a fountain that never stops: it generates its energy from the human interactions that take place in it. Unfortunately, we're getting to a point where many of New York's citizens have been excluded from this equation for too long. The physical part of our city – the body – has been improved immeasurably. I'm a huge supporter of the bike lanes and the bikeshare program, the new public plazas, the waterfront parks and the functional public transportation system. But the cultural part of the city – the mind – has been usurped by the top 1%.

What, then, is the future of New York, or really of any number of big urban centers, in this new Gilded Age? Does culture have a role to play? If we look at the city as it is now, then we would have to say that it looks a lot like the divided city that presumptive mayor Bill de Blasio has been harping about: most of Manhattan and many parts of Brooklyn are virtual walled communities, pleasure domes for the rich (which, full disclosure, includes me), and aside from those of us who managed years ago to find our niche and some means of income, there is no room for fresh creative types. Middle-class people can barely afford to live here anymore, so forget about emerging artists, musicians, actors, dancers, writers, journalists and small business people. Bit by bit, the resources that keep the city vibrant are being eliminated.

by Anonymousreply 15910/10/2013

Ooops, both quotes above belong to Byrne.

by Anonymousreply 16010/10/2013

I hated it when Sinatra stole Liza's version.

by Anonymousreply 16110/10/2013

Things change. All things end. Then, new things begin. The circle of life turns.

by Anonymousreply 16210/10/2013

I meet all sorts of people from everywhere. It's the same with most large cities, I hear, whenever the subject of the past comes up. It's certainly so, with San Diego. Not all changes are welcome, or satisfactory. Here, it's the population explosion.

Btw, I spent a summer in New York in '79. Loved it! New Yorkers were my favorite Americans, then.

by Anonymousreply 16310/10/2013

Byrne band with Weymouth. 1%.

by Anonymousreply 16410/10/2013

I think New York was at its peak in the '40s and '50s and would have been a fabulous place to live and experience.

I moved there in the '70s and for me, the best of times was the '80s. I admit I liked the Howard Johnson's in Times Square, and I liked the old Times Square. To me, now it looks like Disneyland.

I lived in a beautiful neighborhood in the west village and it still looks the same. But over the years I saw everyone in my building leave - two guys died of AIDS, several elderly people died or went into nursing homes; gradually, everybody left.

I have to agree it's not just the change in the cities, it's the changes in ourselves and how we felt when we were first there that makes the difference. I remember it all being so exciting. It may be time for OP to investigate another city or make some new friends or find new interests. It's easy to be isolated or stagnate. I moved out of New York but I still visit often, so I feel like I have the best of both worlds.

by Anonymousreply 16510/10/2013

I remember when they were two Howard Johnsons in Times Square.

by Anonymousreply 16610/10/2013

You can still get into Studio 54. It's now a theater and you can see pasty faced Alan Cummings this spring in the revival of Cabaret. Be thankful you are still alive after all of your partying. It sucks getting old and invisible....that's life. Everything changes every second and you cannot stop the hands of time. Soon you and your memories will be dead too.

by Anonymousreply 16710/10/2013

I know how you feel, my Shaker Heights is gone, it's been gone for many years now. All shvartza, and not quality shvartza either.

by Anonymousreply 16810/10/2013

I only know NY's past from pictures and movies, but to me the 50's and 60's seemed better.

To me the mid-to-late 70's and 80's come across as somewhat seedy, smelly and ugly.

by Anonymousreply 16910/10/2013

I love Times Square!

What's wrong with Pottery Barn?

by Anonymousreply 17010/10/2013

OP, all true, but remember that old people said that about "their" New York when you first moved there. They looked around at the dingy, seedy '70s and remembered bygone fabulousness, the theaters and movie houses and the glamorous fashions of their day.

by Anonymousreply 17110/10/2013

Real estate and NYU have changed NYC nightlife. There's still a lot of nightlife, but it's not gay, and not interesting. I'm 53 and accept that time marches on. I'm just happy that I lived in such interesting times and try very hard to stay relevant without looking like an aged hipster. It helped to move to Brooklyn and get out of the East village. Downtown just depressed me and it seems like after 9/11 everything just revved up. The days of Wigstock, the piers, the great grungy East Village gay bars are gone. The interesting arty people are still here, they're just out in the boroughs. I am a freelancer and share studio space with a bunch of young animators, writers and video artists. It's up to the kids to make their NYC interesting for them, even if it's not that interesting to me. I had my time in the sun, now I'm happy to have a nice dinner party with friends on my ice floe.

by Anonymousreply 17210/10/2013

Living in LA, I have met people, residents of Manhattan, who enthusiastically describe the changes to NYC with utterance like, "High Line! Clean! Isn't it GREAT?!"

These are the people who do not understand innovation or original culture. They don't. They read blogs or study subtle or not subtle signals as to how to look and behave in their chosen milieu. They cover their arms in sleeve tattoos overnight, they grow beards asap, they attend all the festivals and more importantly, post the evidence photos online to lock down their presence and imprimatur of cool. They have never really struggled, and in my experience, are dysfunctionally involved with their rich, weird families. These people are energy parasites, who wait for group approval before liking anything, see the poor as human-like creatures but not as people worth knowing in any way. This is the new Manhattanite, and they are repulsive. Get out now.

I at one time would have done anything to live in NYC, but the conditions that made it so attractive - the excellence and idiosyncrasy - have been blasted away. I miss the involvement in culture that doesn't really exist here in LA, but I suspect it doesn't exist anymore in NYC, either.

by Anonymousreply 17310/10/2013

[quote]I thought my first Village apt. was overpriced at $250 a month.

I had a studio on 63rd and Lex for $220 back then, in a narrow building over a button shop that's still there (Tender Buttons). It had french doors that opened on to a redwood deck that looked out at the back of the Barbizon Hotel.

I moved to L.A. in 1975 and was kind of horrified because I expected something different from watching TV. This is when the Church of Spiritual Sexuality and the Institute of Oral Love were still on Santa Monica Blvd. But you could buy a house in the Valley for $35K. I found Studio One and the French Market, bought a convertible and tried to fit in.

Everything DOES look better in retrospect, esp when it comes to the old daze in NYC. when you're young and hanging out, going to impromptu parties, staying up all night, damn. I crammed more memories into a few years than I did in the next 40.

The trucks, the old piers, the crumbling West Side Highway (High Line) that they finally tore down after a dump truck crashed through the pavement and fell to the street below. It sounds awful, but in my memory it was SO much fun.

by Anonymousreply 17410/10/2013

I'm so glad I got to experience NY in the 80's. I only visited but it was a blast!! Watch After Hours or Desperately Seeking Susan to get feel for it. NY was never for me, it overwhelmed and scare this boy from Upstate. Going to visit now it just seems rather bland and generic. The poster who said it was due to Wall Street is dead on.

by Anonymousreply 17610/10/2013

A pretty okay book about the sixties and seventies New York was written my Edmund White and is called City Boy. I was always fascinated by New York in that period of time but I missed it. Oh well. I have Phoenix now. Maybe that is better than nothing.

by Anonymousreply 17710/10/2013

Hey r122, which of the two Ideal waitresses was the one who would say "Vot to drink, Dollink?" when she took your order?

Funny, you just start thinking places you love so much will just automatically always be there to enjoy. Sigh.

by Anonymousreply 17810/19/2013

[quote]I remember when they were two Howard Johnsons in Times Square.

Weren't the two Weinerwald's too. I loved HoJo's and went there regularly.

by Anonymousreply 17910/19/2013

This Is New York Now: Starbucks, Frozen Yogurt and Juice Bars

We’ve been waiting for the other shoe to fall for months now, ever since Bleecker Street Records was pushed out of its longtime home at 239 Bleecker Street in August by a massive rent increase that would have required the record store to pay $27,000 a month. What purveyor of luxury goods would fill the home from which the vinyl mecca drew its name? (Miraculously, Bleecker Street Records found a space around the corner at 188 West 4th.)

Now we know, h/t Grub Street: a Starbucks will be moving in.

Which inspires the almost pleasant sensation of throwback outrage. It could, after all, be worse. It could be yet another frozen yogurt shop, like the one that replaced Bleecker Bob’s Records. Or a juice bar, like the Liquiteria (it even sounds gross) that is taking over Gray’s Papaya (which, to be fair, also sounded kind of gross).

At least coffee is at least vaguely, potentially edgy, something of a vice, rather than yet another fluorescent-lit shop catering to the latest stupid health trend. (Isn’t the consumption of frozen yogurt and $7 kale and beet juice painful enough without fluorescent lighting and hard, plastic chairs?) We never thought we’d be saying this, but it could be worse. This was, after all, a space that was promoted as being close to L’Occitane and 16 Handles. And Starbucks, at least, performs the vital community service of providing an unlocked bathroom available to the masses.

Still, our dimmed outrage at what should clearly be an outrage leaves us almost woozy with regret and sadness. For the days when it was not a foregone conclusion that everything cool and interesting, singular or unusual would be replaced by something awful at worst and anodyne at best. For the days when opening yet another branch of coffee shop that already has 280 locations in the city, as Grub Street reported, in a neighborhood that is already blessed with a plentitude of good coffee shops, would not elicit a lazy grumble, a shrug of the shoulders or a sigh of resignation.

by Anonymousreply 18004/20/2014

Is it possible to just up and move to Manhattan from the Midwest with no money like people used to do in the 70's and 80's? Or are those days completely gone? Is it possible to live in Manhattan (even if it's a dump) with no money, or are even the shitty apartments a rip-off?

by Anonymousreply 18104/20/2014

No, it is not possible to live in Manhattan with no money. Try the outer boroughs.

by Anonymousreply 18204/20/2014

OP: Mary!

by Anonymousreply 18304/20/2014

R181, what do you mean "no money?" Hell NO you can't live in NYC with "no" money. Even if you walk everywhere, how will you pay for food? YOu can't sleep on a park bench year round, either. And the crappiest of the crappy apartments are four figures.

by Anonymousreply 18404/20/2014

No place is the same as it was 35-40 years ago. get over it.

by Anonymousreply 18504/20/2014

I've lived in NYC for over 30 years. I live in Hell's Kitchen and work in Times Square. Back in the day, that would have been an enviable thing.

But now, with more tourists than ever - who are more oblivious to the fact that this is a functioning city and not an amusement part - than ever, just getting to and from work is so stressful as to be headache-inducing.

The irony is that there are more tourists than ever, and year round, yet NYC is now nothing more than chain restaurants and stores that are in every mall in America. What are they even coming here for? There's nothing to make it a distinctive destination from their local malls.

by Anonymousreply 18704/20/2014

[quote]The irony is that there are more tourists than ever, and year round, yet NYC is now nothing more than chain restaurants and stores that are in every mall in America. What are they even coming here for?

Since New Yorkers are always rambling and droning on about how New York is "The best city in the world", I would imagine they come to see what the hype is about (and probably end up disappointed).

by Anonymousreply 18804/20/2014

The problem with NYC art scene is that it revolves around happenings like the one at the link (I randomly chose this one, but, yeah, it's in Brooklyn and there is an indie singer playing, and they all look like hipsters). To me, this is dull beyond words.

by Anonymousreply 18904/20/2014

NYC is Oligarchy central and the hanger-on/con-artists that leech off of them pretending to culture.

by Anonymousreply 19004/20/2014

R189 Art scene??? Honey, there is NO art scene in NYC anymore.

by Anonymousreply 19104/20/2014

Your sentiments could be about any major city OP.

I live in Minneapolis,Between "Urban Renewal " and misguided retail projects,The downtown has been sanitized and stripped of any urban character.One area called 'Block E' was ripped down in the late 80's, It had that a bit of old 'Times Square' feel.Further back in the early 60's some 40% of the downtown was clearcutted in the name of "progress" taking down some beautiful buildings. I used to like to travel through the US.But now every town looks the same.If I do travel again it'll be in Europe!

by Anonymousreply 19204/20/2014

What do we expect would happen when middle and upper-middle class people no longer move to the suburbs but put roots down in the city?

Those people aren't edgy - they'r former suburbanites who now call themselves city people. It's what the city USED to be before people moved to the suburbs.

I'm glad I don't have to worry about crime like I used to.

by Anonymousreply 19304/20/2014

r189, that reads like an Onion article. It's hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 19404/20/2014

r193 So, a return to good old segregated urban areas works out just fine for you? You seem to forget that the middle class migration to suburbia was called "white flight" and was basically a hysterical reaction to the civil rights movement.

And now that economic hegemony has resulted in de facto segregation becoming the norm, all you care to do is laud the jack booted police force for giving you the illusion of "safety".

You're an idiot. And, a racist.

by Anonymousreply 19504/20/2014

And to reply to a poster above about how many wealthy kids can there be? You have to realize these are the kids of the upper 1-5% from all over the US and the world.

The wealth concentration in New York, London and Paris is really unbelievable.

When I lived there in the 80's, 90's, even then, I knew very few people who paid their own way. Probably 70% of the people I knew had their parents paying their rent. That's a big advantage when you're making maybe $50 or $60K in your 20's. But that was usually the extent of it - only their rent was paid. And that's plenty of a handout in NYC.

by Anonymousreply 19604/20/2014

R191 the art scene is now in LA.

by Anonymousreply 19704/20/2014

In LA, the Art scene is mostly about pasting garbage together -- post-modernism is stuck in an infinite loop...

by Anonymousreply 19804/20/2014

No dear, all the art is in Arkansas. I bought it all.

by Anonymousreply 19904/21/2014

This thread is full of hissing.

by Anonymousreply 20004/21/2014

The one good thing about Manhattan becoming unaffordable is that people have discovered the boroughs. Non-Brownstone Brooklyn (e.g. Flatbush); non-Astoria, LIC Queens (e.g. Woodside, Jackson Heights, Ridgewood): urban Staten Island. Only The Bronx sadly remains a slum.

These neighborhoods are where the "interesting" people are living affordably today.

by Anonymousreply 20104/21/2014

R189 that was a fashion not an art event. And it was on Bowery not Bklyn.

by Anonymousreply 20204/21/2014

I feel the same way about London. The city I knew in the 70s and 80s is gone too. I seem to be the sole survivor of the gang I hung out with, they are all gone now, including a oartner of 10 years and several great guys I liked a lot. A few others moved away.

The city has got more expensive and upmarket and gentrified. Even areas like Balham, Stratford, Streatham - ordindary suburbia - are highly desireable now and beyond the price of ordindary Londoners as wealthy foreigners buy up properties. An apartment I rented with friends in Chelsea, just off Sloane Square, would cost well over a million now ....

by Anonymousreply 20304/21/2014

San Francisco has been taken over too. It's depressing.

by Anonymousreply 20404/21/2014

A lot of people here write-off these observations as elder gay bitterness. When in fact its just a normal response to the very sad reality that money is destroying everything that was once unique about cities like NY and SF.

The simple fact is a bunch of rich people taking over is never going to yield anything culturally relevant or disruptive. It just yields more mall amenities, ATMs and luxury housing.

That's why I find it so funny when people defend Manhattan now like its still this edgy cool place exploding with creative energy. Most of the creative energy here now is focused on making money in tech, finance or advertising.

I agree though that the outer boroughs have become a lot more interesting. I live in Ditmas Park and the vibe here reminds me of the east village back in the day. A lot of artists, gays,funky young kids, bohemian families. Hoping it stays that way for a little while.

by Anonymousreply 20504/21/2014

Let's be real. OP stayed too long at the fair.

by Anonymousreply 20604/21/2014

OP saw someone put ketchup on a Coney Island Red.

by Anonymousreply 20704/21/2014

OP collects joan crawford posters.

by Anonymousreply 20804/21/2014

[quote] I've lived in the same rent-controlled apartment since 1975.

For fuck's sake, you've been in the same hole for 40 years, getting older and crankier year after year after year, decade after decade after decade, and the fault is the city around you?

by Anonymousreply 20904/21/2014

I've never been to New York, and probably as long as TSA and its possible ineffectual successors exist, will never get to New York, either.

Being a kid of 1980s/1990s, I remember New York from various tv shows and films, so a part of the retelling is based on what I remember from tv shows, most of which, of course, airbrushed all that stuff.

The one tv show that I felt was at the time the most realistic about the city, and which captured my imagination, was The Equalizer (starring Edward Woodward). It showed not the glamour of the city, but the dangers and also the good people who formed strong and enduring friendships.

That was the kind of New York I wanted to visit. Also the New York of early Law & Order seasons.

The film that foretold all that gentrification that was to come was Joe's Apartment.

In a way, I would have liked to visit the New York of different eras:

The NY of the 1970s of a PI tv show I can't remember, where the leading man was some guy with a suite, moustache, a fedora and jazz music. The WTC was up by then. I remember these elements of a tv show, but don't know what it's called.

The NY of mid-to-late 1980's, as it was shown by The Equalizer.

The New York of early Law & Order seasons.

After that I'd love to visit the New York before Giuliani, but well after he entered office, and before 9/11. Also the New York before Stop and Frisk.

I'm speculating that the culture and artsy side of New York that many DLers feel is gone, might have been the effect of the 1970s hippie culture (unless it was there before that), and of the crime rates. The latter kept the rent reasonably acceptable so that the artsy types were willing to enter the city and call it a home.

It might also be the effect of the Internet, that when people thought of going to live in NYC and check out the big rent prices, they decided not to go.

If much of the interesting culture and artsy stuff is not strong enough to make the city what it is anymore, then the real question is, which city either in the U.S. or elsewhere is now the focal point of similar trends. If not New York, then where else?

by Anonymousreply 21004/21/2014

The millionaires and rich foreigners have ruined all big cities. It's sad.

by Anonymousreply 21104/21/2014

Not Detroit.

by Anonymousreply 21204/21/2014

Kim's Video on 1st Avenue in the East Village is closing.

by Anonymousreply 21304/22/2014

R209 do you think his landlord has updated his apartment since then? I think if I had a bathroom and kitchen that was over 40 years old I would go nuts, too.

by Anonymousreply 21404/22/2014

Still beats LA.

by Anonymousreply 21504/22/2014

r211 is right. I've read a few articles in UK mags saying the same thing about London. It's actually worse there because the Square Mile operates as a tax haven.

Even Toronto, which really is a backwater shithole comparatively, is undergoing the same transformation. When our condo boom bursts, look out.

by Anonymousreply 21604/22/2014

Republicans aren't that interesting r201. Sorry.

by Anonymousreply 21704/22/2014

Certain "great" cities of the US and Europe, or rather parts of cities -- Manhattan and San Francisco, London, Paris, Rome -- have become preserves for the rich only. Thanks, capitalism.

I live in Manhattan, half my income goes to rent, and I am lucky. Can't leave New York, though, since it is still a city where you can walk most everywhere, and the subway remains cheap.

As many posters have said, newcomers can live in the Bronx or Queens -- great boroughs both.

by Anonymousreply 21804/22/2014

[quote]For fuck's sake, you've been in the same hole for 40 years, getting older and crankier year after year after year, decade after decade after decade, and the fault is the city around you?

IIRC, OP said his apartment was in Washington Mews! It's actually a very desirable area of The Village. It's a PRIVATE street, sounds like OP doesn't have too much to whine about.

A close friend, now a millionaire, for some odd reason, is holding on to his dreary $200 a month Chelsea apartment. It's a dive.

f his landlord decides to buy the longtime tenants out, my friend certainly doesn't need the buyout money, so you have to wonder why so many people, who don't need to do so, remain in crappy Manhattan apartments. This guy has a loft in Soho and a house in Brooklyn!

by Anonymousreply 21904/22/2014
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