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Losing a Friend

I was invited on vacation with a friend of mine ("Rick"). It was to last two weeks, and we'd be going to various resorts, and he would be picking up all the expenses except my plane ticket. Rick doesn't have many friends and has been very generous and kind to me over the years. I really like him a lot but I'm in a quandry as to how to proceed because of what happened at the end of the trip.

Rick is bipolar, unmedicated, and thinks people who take pills are weak-minded. When he's on a manic high, he can stay up for weeks at a time, existing on as little as two hours of sleep a night. He is always intense, a little too intense, and it seems he has few friends because of it. The only other people he counts as friends are on his payroll.

I spent many years with another bipolar guy and it got so bad in that situation I had to threaten to leave if he didn't get help. He finally did. In this case, as well, I was one of his only friends (and still am).

By the time we hit SF, Rick and I checked into the Mandarin and went out to visit a friend of mine in the Castro. During the short ride back to the hotel, Rick flipped out over my driving and when we pulled up to the valet he ordered him not to let me use the car out. "This is my car," he said. "Do NOT let him take it out." (It was a rental. I'm a good driver. I wasn't planning on using it.) I was shocked by what he said, and I guess I hadn't taken his "fit" seriously until this point. The paranoia was taking over, and transforming into blind anger. He issued another ultimatum ("no more driving for you. I take over from now on, or this vacation is over"). There was no basis for this outburst and paranoia, and I refused, mostly on principle, whereupon, he kicked me out of the hotel and ended our vacation, stranding me in SF.

I was so upset with him that I told him I hate him and never want to see him again. I regret that. He texted back: "You won't."

I don't want this. I like the guy.

What would you do? Would you even try? We've had a good 10-year friendship, but we're both really stubborn. Advice? It's been a couple of months and we haven't spoken.

by Anonymousreply 14507/28/2013

OP you are a codependant

by Anonymousreply 107/24/2013

Well, MyDoll.

by Anonymousreply 207/24/2013

Do you like all of him, including the manic parts? Or do you just like part of him?

If its the former, then apologize for what you said and see if he'll continue the friendship. If not, chock this up to a life experience.

by Anonymousreply 307/24/2013

He took you along because you're an experienced and skilled enabler. He obviously enjoys being manic, but he wants someone along who'll keep him out of trouble and serve as a whipping boy, that's you.

Good quality temporary enablers who'll do the job for the price of a plane ticket are hard to find, so he'll forgive you and be in touch soon.

by Anonymousreply 407/24/2013

You clearly hate him and you spoke your true mind. You chafed under the strain of the free ride -- it's never really free -- and your anger became evident.

This sounds like a horrible vacation.

Stay away from each other.

by Anonymousreply 507/24/2013

Let it be. He sounds dreadful.

by Anonymousreply 607/24/2013

Wow, a lot of shitty advice here. Think about how YOU feel about YOURSELF. Are you willing to put up with abuse from someone? Anyone? You may like this guy but he is bipolar and unmedicated and a loose cannon. You cannot trust his behavior, can never feel comfortable around him. It is a type of abuse for you to put UP with that. You can wish him well and like him as a person but only YOU can decide what kind of behaviors you are willing to put up with. This is about YOU, not him.

by Anonymousreply 707/24/2013

My brother is bi polar, so I've learnt how to deal with it. How? I ignore his outbursts, because, invariably, everything he says is forgotten in three minutes. Rick would have forgotten he told the valet to not let you drive by the time you got to your rooms. If you like Rick enough to maintain a friendship with him, do. But it's never an easy ride, and you're always putting someone else's needs and moods ahead of yours.

by Anonymousreply 807/24/2013

This is lesbian drama disguised as gay men.

by Anonymousreply 907/24/2013

I would never speak to him again and if I did, it would only be to tell him to fuck off!

by Anonymousreply 1007/24/2013

Fortunately you're in San Francisco, which probably has a Bipolar Bears support group.

by Anonymousreply 1107/24/2013

I'm on meds for severe anxiety and mild depression, my sister is against the whole pill thing. I've told her is rather have a shorter life and be happy on the medication, then a long life being happy( if the pills are indeed doing me harm internally).

He does need to see someone. If he doesn't want to take medication, Is he exploring the natural therapy's route?

by Anonymousreply 1207/24/2013

I differ from everyone posting.

I think the OP was in the wrong not to agree not to drive and should have gone along with his friend's wishes.

It wouldn't have hurt the OP to go along with the friend's wishes and there was no reason not to.

The friend was paying for the entire trip which was a huge plus. And maybe the OP's driving was not very good and scared the friend.

Why cause an argument over your friend's wishes about the car?

It is shocking that the friend left you in SF and cut off the trip in the middle. Shocking, but understandable because apparently such an acrimonious tension and mood and relationship took over the trip that there was no other choice.

I understand your loss, OP, and I think you should try to mend the relationship and apologize. Friends are not all that easy to come by.

by Anonymousreply 1307/24/2013

I have a friend with bi polar who also refuses meds. I find him exhausting but I always felt that cutting myself off from him for something he couldn't help was wrong, so I've remained friends with him. But I have distanced myself, without really meaning too, and my life is better for it. His self absorption is limitless, his abity for self pity boundless, and every poor decision he has ever made was the fault of someone else apparently. Sane boyfriends have run miles from him and the codependent ones (two in total) have stayed longer than they wanted to for fear of his spitefulness and rage. Despite this, he can be funny, and can be great fun if he's not depressed or manic. His negatives far outweigh the positives however. If I were you OP I'd let him decide if he wants this friendship and if he does, go ahead but keep your distance. But whatever you do don't go crawling back or he will tell himself his behavior was justified and he was right all along.

by Anonymousreply 1407/24/2013

R12, how strange that your sister is against taking pills for anxiety and depression.

That is weird! And the pills are not harming you internally - why would they?

by Anonymousreply 1507/24/2013

If he contacts you again, simply reply that you will not be his friend again until he gets medication for his mental illness. His outburst was completely unwarranted, and you don't have to put up with that from friends. Either he seeks help, or he remains nearly friendless.

by Anonymousreply 1607/24/2013

You can't change him. You can't be real friends with someone not taking medicine.

You knew that going in didn't you ? You need to accept what you have no control over or move on from this person.

Did you enjoy his friendship and company most of the time? Maybe you just enjoyed the perks?

by Anonymousreply 1707/24/2013

R16, you don't know whether the friend's outburst was completely warranted or unwarranted.

by Anonymousreply 1807/24/2013

R13 doesn't have a CLUE about bipolar disorder!

And my post at R4 was perfectly serious, BTW, you're part of this guys strategy for managing his bipolar disorder without meds. He's using you as a caregiver rather than a friend, and he's getting you for cheap.

by Anonymousreply 1907/24/2013

It's sad to lose a friend, I've lost quite a few. It's really up to you if you want to try and apologize but sounds to me like maybe he's the one who should apologize.

by Anonymousreply 2007/24/2013

Well honey I hope your Samsonite has wheels cause someone is walking the streets tonite!

by Anonymousreply 2107/24/2013

R8 all bipolar people are different, you cannot categorically say his friend would have forgotten just because your brother would have. I was in a relationship with a bipolar person who never would have forgotten, and ignoring him made things worse, he'd become violent.

Stay away from bipolar people, believe me, this is a serious mental illness and you'll save yourself a lot of aggravation or worse.

by Anonymousreply 2207/24/2013

R19, in what way do I 'not have a clue' about bipolar disorder?

What is it you want me to know about bipolar disorder that you assume I do not know?

by Anonymousreply 2307/24/2013

R8, why would your brother forget what he said moments or an hour or two later?

R20, why have you lost quite a few friends. I'm interested in why friendships end.

I lost a friendship not too long ago and I'm still trying to process it and understand it.

by Anonymousreply 2407/24/2013

OP, that sounds like a fight my grandparents would have.

by Anonymousreply 2507/24/2013

First of all, 2 weeks is at least a week too long to spend with any "friend".

Very few people can handle that much time together

by Anonymousreply 2607/24/2013

"in what way do I 'not have a clue' about bipolar disorder?"

You were "shocked" that someone with bipolar disorder behaved irrationally, for one thing. You also seem to expect a person with unmedicated bipolar disorder to take responsibility for his actions, and to take steps to refrain from repeating his irrational and hurtful behavior. Well, that's what the whole refusing-medication thing is about - refusing to stop the hurtful, irrational, dangerous actions his illness causes!

Read up on bipolar disorder, and why so many people refuse medication. Some of them actually enjoy the high of mania, and don't care how much it hurts the people around them. You can never have a true friendship with such a person, because that would involve a degree of thoughtfulness and equality that a person in the grip of mania cannot give.

by Anonymousreply 2707/24/2013

I have a friend who has some bipolar characteristics but probably is not fully a bipolar. (not on medication)

He went thru a recent period where he was sleeping just 2 or 3 hours per night due to the non-drug 'high' he was on, while also on a mission to super-accomplish and be ultra-productive during the daytime. (he's retired)

Some of you seem to be saying people with bipolar disorder seem to act out in certain ways. What are commonly those ways that they act out?

by Anonymousreply 2807/24/2013

R27, okay, but we do not know for certain that the bipolar friend's request for the OP not to drive was irrational.

You don't know it was irrational. Maybe the OP does not realize that his driving is not the best or scary.

So being irrational is a keystone behavior of people with bipolar disorder? Just asking. I have read up on it but there is always more to know.

by Anonymousreply 2907/24/2013

I also have a good friend who is bi-polar. Exhausts me but is still a lot of fun. Everyone is ALWAYS to blame except him. That gets old. If anyone left me (no matter what the reason) it would be over. Forever. End of story.

by Anonymousreply 3007/24/2013

Also, R13, you seem to assume that the OP did something wrong to provoke the outburst, and he probably didn't.

The outburst happened because the malfunctioning neurotransmitters in "Rick's" brain told him "be paranoid". When that happens, a person will fixate on any damn innocuous thing, and all angry and paranoid at it even if it's totally innocent. The OP's driving was incidental, and if "Rick" fixated on the OP instead of someone who would call the police... that's why I said that "Rick" brought the OP along as a whipping boy.

by Anonymousreply 3107/24/2013

A bi-polar asshole who refuses to take his meds?

OP, you already know the answer to this. He's put you in an impossible position. Your dependence on his "generosity" leaves you vulnerable to his vicious attacks.

Punch and delete. If he ever gets his shit together and racks up a good amount of time taking his meds and getting therapy - then he might be worth your friendship. Until then - don't give him the opportunity to abuse and humiliate you, he'll obviously take it and take pleasure in it.

by Anonymousreply 3207/24/2013

R31, call the police?

I don't understand. Calling the police would be absurd, ridiculous, and asinine in this situation.

You seem to have had intimate dealing with a bipolar person.

by Anonymousreply 3307/24/2013

I don't believe he can help it. I think you should forgive him for it, if you feel right about doing so. My partner is bipolar and I know that he cannot help it when his illness causes him to hurt me, and it hurts him a lot more than it hurts me. Forgiving him, being a good friend and keeping a good friend isn't enabling-it's accepting a friend for who he is-mental illness and all. Don't abandon him because of something he cannot control.

But, since you are just friends and not a couple there is really no reason for you to risk going on vacation with him again unless you want to; and have a backup plan.

by Anonymousreply 3407/24/2013

R33, what the OP describes is "Rick" flipping out for no reason. If "Rick" had flipped out that way at a stranger on the street, the stranger would have called the police, but the OP wouldn't do that because he's a supposed friend.

Again, the malfunctioning neurotransmitters in Rick's head caused the feelings of paranoia and anger, and all his conscious mind did was to look around for something in the real world to focus the feelings on. If Rick focused his anger on the OP rather than the strangers on the street, I suspect that it's because he knows how useful whipping boys can be under these circumstances.

by Anonymousreply 3507/24/2013

Just curious, was he perhaps jealous of your relationship with the friend you visited?

by Anonymousreply 3607/24/2013

R35, under no circumstances would flipping out with verbal accusations of the sort the OP described warrant calling the police. A stranger would walk away, and the OP knows that calling the police is absurd in this situation.

R35, you sound like an irrational hot head with mental problems of your own.

by Anonymousreply 3707/24/2013

OP, you don't like this guy, you like the freebies.

by Anonymousreply 3807/24/2013

r38 for the win!

by Anonymousreply 3907/24/2013

You sure like unmedicated bipolar people to be so close to two of them, OP.

by Anonymousreply 4007/24/2013

[quote] If not, chock this up to a life experience

It's "chalk it up," not "chock"

by Anonymousreply 4107/24/2013

Oh well!

by Anonymousreply 4207/24/2013

OP, when he calls back to beg forgiveness, let him know quite clearly that only a first class trip to Paris in a 5 star hotel will make up for the hurt that he inflicted.

by Anonymousreply 4307/24/2013

Amen R43 - #GETMONEYBITCH is the Goldigger Rule.

by Anonymousreply 4407/24/2013

I have bipolar 1 disorder and I take care of myself through medication, no alcohol, 8 hours of sleep per night, regular exercise, and I try to live a very normal life.

I can guarantee you that you are enabling him to stay sick and off medications. I would tell him that you cannot be friends with him unless he gets professional help. He probably won't, but maybe he will if people would stop enabling him.

by Anonymousreply 4507/24/2013

Would you put up with this if he wasn't paying your travel expenses?

No, of course not.

by Anonymousreply 4607/24/2013

R46, the OP made it clear that he values the friendship

by Anonymousreply 4707/24/2013

How does a crazy bi polar guy like that get so much money???

by Anonymousreply 4807/24/2013

OP honey, you a ho !!! A big ole stupid ho !

You thought Miss Cray Cray would pay for your holiday fun. You don't like that person, you like the money. Then Miss Cray Cray goes all frootloops on your ass, and you can't facilitate the crazy no more.

Walk away. Stop helping a sick person to stay sick. Stop the high risk vacations. Find your own holiday dollar. Don't be a cheap ho.

by Anonymousreply 4907/24/2013

If he's your friend then don't think twice about moving past this and maintaining the friendship. You aren't an enabler-you are being a good friend despite his mental illness. My partner is bipolar and sometimes the illness makes him act in a way that he hates and cannot control. sometimes he hurts me, but when he does it hurts him far more than he could ever hurt me. There's no reason to turn your back on a friend because he is sick.

I can tell you that medication hardly ever improves mental illness and often has terrible side effects. I know first hand, as do millions of others, that even medication for depression almost never works and almost always has bad side effects. With bipolar it is just as ineffective, but with far worse side effects, if your friend isn't taking psychotropic medication-he probably has a good reason and it's not making the situation any worse. Even Prozac doesn't work-but DOES cause a whole host of awful side effects.

I would say you might not want to travel with him in the future. But, remember people on DL are often very mean and bitter-don't listen to the hostile posters when it comes to friendship, or relationships of any kind. They usually don't have long lasting friendships and, I'm sorry to say, are often single. Keep that in mind. Stick by your friend.

by Anonymousreply 5007/24/2013

OP, honey, R49 just nailed it and you.

Ignore the "oh you should put up with all the abuse and just keep right on loving your friend" bullshit. Those people are sick masochists and of no use to anyone.

Don't be a cheap ho. Words to live by, OP.

by Anonymousreply 5107/24/2013

Really OP, before you take from anybody advising you to turn your back on a friend, ask yourself if those people sound like they themselves would be someone you would want as a friend, or in a relationship with.

by Anonymousreply 5207/24/2013

R45 gets the gold star

by Anonymousreply 5307/24/2013

OP, obviously you only put up with him for the free stuff. You deserve everything he dishes out. You are whore without the sex.

by Anonymousreply 5407/24/2013

R52, you're a cheap ho.

I kid. Actually, you just have a totally warped idea of friendship.

Love, respect, consideration, emotional support, lots of things are part of being a friend (or lover). Here's the rub and where your theory fails - it must be MUTUAL.

If one person loves, respects, considers and emotionally supports a selfish, manic, abusive, bi-polar asshole who refuses to take his meds - thereby ensuring that he'll abuse his friends - that's not an actual friendship. It's not a relationship of any kind, other than one person allowing an abusive person to mistreat him. That's not a good or healthy thing and it is certainly not friendly.

If you are a deliberately unmedicated bi-polar asshole and the friends you abuse stand by you - good for you, too bad for them, eh?

by Anonymousreply 5507/24/2013

Here's the thing, it's one thing to stand by a friend, but if the person won't get meds, you're not helping. The person above is dead wrong about meds, while it's true they don't always work, you keep trying different ones at the advice of your doctor until you find what does work. There ARE meds that help, and even taking all that into consideration, how is doing nothing and not trying going to help?

Take into consideration also that, sometimes relationships need to end. Period. You aren't the devil if dealing with this kind of thing isn't for you, OP. I personally wouldn't advise you to keep the friendship, but if you do, at least help the guy by insisting he get to a dr., get on meds, and get therapy.

by Anonymousreply 5607/24/2013

No R55, I'm not the one with bipolar, my partner is. I actually wrote a bit about it at R50. Honestly, none of those meds for mental illness do anything but cause weight gain, dry mouth, lack of sex drive and put people into a stupor. I don't recommend them for anything.

When it comes to relationships you have to "stand by your man." It's that simple, in sickness and in health. Same thing with friends. Character and integrity is looking for who people are inside, seeing their heart. Sometimes gay men on here are so shallow-I think that is why they are single. They hurt themselves in the long run.

Good relationships, and friendships, require hard work. But, they are worth it.

Hang in there. :)

by Anonymousreply 5707/24/2013

R55, love?

Maybe you 'love' a friend or two or three.

But many people do not 'love' their friend(s).

Love is an awfully strong word. Most people do not love their friends. They like their friends or have something in common with them or enjoy chatting with them.

You are way too overwrought and emotional in thinking all people have 'love' for a friend.

That is way too passionate a word for most friendships which are based on working together, playing a team sport together, drinking together, having a meal out together, chatting, exchanging thoughts.

by Anonymousreply 5807/24/2013

OP--some people find themselves involved with someone who is no-polar. For most of them, it's a random thing. It's the kind of thing that anyone might experience.

But to repeat that behavior, almost, apparently, intentionally, is a bit pathological.

These kinds of relationships are the types that most will end up appreciating having escaped. While the terms "co-dependent" and "enabling" are completely appropriate, if characterize it as "looking for trouble."

You need to move on. And I hope you might consider getting some help for yourself. You seem like a decent sort, and you need to rid yourself of being manipulated by people who aren't a decent sort.

by Anonymousreply 5907/24/2013

Insisting someone goes on meds is the opposite of being a good friend. Studies have proven they work less often than placebos. Just do a Google search. They are just poison, not medicine.

by Anonymousreply 6007/24/2013

I have never 'loved' a friend.

R55, are you a young person? Young people these days toss around the word love so much that it has completely diminished the true meaning and significance.

by Anonymousreply 6107/24/2013

I think R4 etc makes a lot of sense. Just about everything he (she?) says rings true.

R21 U R FUNNY. I stomped off to my friend's in the Castro, LOL.

R36. Ding ding ding. He is married to a great guy and our relationship has always been platonic, but he acts inappropriate towards me sometimes, which I ignore. We had separate rooms at each stop. This was also to accommodate the fact he stays up all night. I don't think of him as jealous, and if you saw his husband you'd totally agree, but this trip really was actually perfect until after we left my friend's apt in the Castro that night. Not jealous but maybe pissed that I took him out of our "just the two of us" world.

Nothing happened at my friend's place in the Castro. It was fine. But when we got back in the car, just before he seemed to "break," he said "I'm homesick" in kind of a lonely way. Then, at 18th & Castro on a Friday night, the car lurched a bit (a convertible with 400HP) and with so many people on the street Rick began to freak. It just escalated from there.

I love both of my bipolar friends because they are good people and I try to see beyond the ways they are misunderstood. My other friend, Gerry, has many problems, bipolar being one of them, and I admire how he has turned his life around with a lot of help and a couple of pills. He follows and engages in conversations now with ease and to anyone who knows a bipolar person, that's a really big deal.

In Rick's case, he's loaded. He can surf his manic highs for weeks and months before the crash because he doesn't have to work. Unlike Gerry, who has a low IQ and no money (but optimistic, kind and open), Rick is brilliant and has the cash to make the marionettes dance. And dance they do.

I don't want this to go on forever. I can't quite describe how perfect we were as travel companions during the week before. We were in total synch. And then . . . boom!

But he project all this stuff on me and I'm not exactly a passive personality, which is what he always says he likes about me. Maybe just when it's not confronting his behavior?

Tks for the advice. Appreciate it.

by Anonymousreply 6207/24/2013

R60 I've known people who've been helped by them. Op's friend needs to at least try, he also needs therapy. When you're ill, sitting about doing nothing to try to help yourself is not a good idea.

by Anonymousreply 6307/24/2013

Who are these anti=meds posters (poster)? I know lots of people whose lives have been positively transformed by anti-depression drugs.

by Anonymousreply 6407/24/2013

OP, how big is his cock?

by Anonymousreply 6507/24/2013

R62 (OP) I'm wondering why you are on a two week vacation with your friend when your friend is married.

Is your friend's husband not available for travel because of work or does the husband not like travel?

by Anonymousreply 6607/24/2013

Rick's husband was in Europe on his own three-week vacation with old friends. Rick doesn't fly and they live on the West Coast. It's a big hardship for him to get to Europe. In a way, this trip with me was almost like a "revenge" trip on Rick's part.

BTW, I don't mean to imply that Rick is attracted to me in any way. I'm 10 years older than he is. We are both in the same profession/hobby (he's more successful) and on the same wavelength. Remarkably so, which we comment on all the time. Good friends are hard to come by. I miss him.

by Anonymousreply 6707/24/2013

For those of you who insist meds don't work, they definitely work for me. If I didn't have meds I know I'd be dead by now. They don't work for everyone, but for those who are responsive to the right medications they are truly a life saver. Bipolar is a bitch to manage and is very deadly.

by Anonymousreply 6807/24/2013

Seriously OP if you miss him you shoud take him back. I'm 44, I don't know if I was R55 or not. But, I did post here. You have to accept people for who they are and how they are. I know my partner of 13 years is bipolar, it's worth it, it is absolutely worth it...and it's infinitely better now that he has the sense to stay away from meds. They are nothing but chemicals that pollute and destroy body and mind. Big Pharma kills people for profits-they just pay doctors to prescribe their poisons.

Call him up and just put this behind you.

by Anonymousreply 6907/24/2013

You brought in "hate" when things were not going your way. A loaded expression that does not pass often between mature, balanced people.

Your friend is high-strung and insecure. "Hate" probably upset him.

Are you sure you aren't bipolar yourself?

by Anonymousreply 7007/24/2013

[quote]No [R55], I'm not the one with bipolar, my partner is.

R57, you're the one who's a cunt.

[quote]I actually wrote a bit about it at [R50].

I must have dozed off.

[quote]Honestly, none of those meds for mental illness do anything but cause weight gain, dry mouth, lack of sex drive and put people into a stupor. I don't recommend them for anything.

Then you're an idiot as well as a cunt and, evidently, you're quite a vicious little cunt. You not only enable your partner's mental illness - you feed and grow it so that it gets worse over time, by pretending that science isn't real. Nice.

[quote]When it comes to relationships you have to "stand by your man." It's that simple,

No, actually it isn't that simple in any way, shape or form. Standing by someone who is abusing you, refusing to take her meds and refusing therapy is fucking insane. It's unhealthy, self-destructive and masochistic as well as being detrimental to the mental health of your sick partner.

Perhaps you two are well-matched.

[quote]in sickness and in health.

You are failing your partner's health as well as your own - it's all sickness with you.

[quote]Same thing with friends. Character and integrity is looking for who people are inside, seeing their heart.

Oh my, it's Hallmark-level insight. "Seeing their heart" has nothing to do with indulging, enabling and feeding their mental illness so it rages on, unchecked and untreated. It takes *genuine* character and integrity to care enough about your partner or friend that you get her the help she so desperately needs.

Character and integrity also require that you respect yourself and your life more than to allow another person to humiliate and abuse you.

[quote]Sometimes gay men on here are so shallow-I think that is why they are single. They hurt themselves in the long run.

Sometimes the women on here are such stupid, nasty cunts - I think that's why they are in bad relationships. They project so much of their own shit onto gay men - it's why you don't really fit in here or anywhere else.

[quote]Good relationships, and friendships, require hard work. But, they are worth it.

How would you know? You are probably the dumbest person here. You are in an abusive/masochistic partnership with a mentally ill person. You've demonstrated that you know nothing about relationships outside of your sick, anti-science, Hallmark fantasies.

[quote]Hang in there. :)

Suck my balls. :)

by Anonymousreply 7107/24/2013

R69 that is BULLSHIT. Depression meds saved my life. You are ignorant and should shut your ass.

by Anonymousreply 7207/24/2013

[quote]I have never 'loved' a friend.

You've missed out in life. I feel sorry for you.

by Anonymousreply 7307/24/2013

Why are all the numbers on this thread wrong? I mean R55 et al.

by Anonymousreply 7407/24/2013

[quote] i love both of my bipolar friends because they are good people and I try to see beyond the ways they are misunderstood.


The people who misunderstand bipolar disease are your bipolar friends who refuse medication/treatment.

Pretty much everyone else understands that bipolar disease needs treatment and the most effective treatment is medication.

You sound more than a bit looney to declare people with unmedicated bipolar disease are "misunderstood." do you also have unmedicated, misunderstood schizophrenic friends?

by Anonymousreply 7507/24/2013

R73, I've deeply loved a partner of 16 years and boyfriend of 2 years. So don't feel sorry for me.

Most people so not 'love' their friends.

Many friendships are just casual.

For you not to know that many friendships are just casual is very weird.

by Anonymousreply 7707/24/2013

R71 sounds like a severely mentally ill emotionally unbalanced person.

by Anonymousreply 7807/24/2013

No R75, I don't have skitzophrenic friends. I have friends with depression, and I have been diagnosed with mild depression myself (when I first developed Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.) So I know, first hand the dangers of "anti-depression" medication. They are poison. Big Pharma has so many people brainwashed. Very sad.

by Anonymousreply 7907/24/2013

Good troll.

accomplished what you set out to do. Involves several hot topics that push DL buttons -- mental Illness (bipolar -- a DL favorite), vacation, inappropriate behavior, wild overreaction (earrings! caftan!), anti-medication (hotly debated preference among people - to medicate or not to medicate)

I'd say 9/10.

by Anonymousreply 8007/24/2013

[quote]For you not to know that many friendships are just casual is very weird.

I never said I didn't know that. I feel sorry for you because you've never experienced a friendship where you love your friend. That is sad. That you got defensive about it is even sadder.

by Anonymousreply 8107/24/2013

I'm not defensive. I told you I've deeply loved a partner of 16 years and a boyfriend of 2 years.

Why try to apply your standard of 'love' to all or most friendships?

Most people do not apply a standard of 'love' to all or many or even a significant number of their friendships. Love doesn't even enter their mind when it comes to friends, you overwrought emotionally immature sop.

by Anonymousreply 8207/24/2013

R50/79 you discount every account here of people who's lives were saved by medication. You deal in absolutes, but the world is not black and white.

Your stupidity is embarrassing. Bitch, sit your retarded ass down!

by Anonymousreply 8307/24/2013

R82, where exactly did I say ALL friendships? Good lord you're as stupid as the no meds troll.

by Anonymousreply 8407/24/2013

Obviously he was jealous. I also think you're a bad driver - cars do not lurch by themselves. Some of my closest friends I avoid doing things with because they are bad drivers but cannot bear to hear criticism of it.

The extreme reaction on his part is an obvious problem and I doubt he understands why you reacted so strongly in this particular case (which was obviously because you had an alternative place to stay), when you've probably caved in others.

by Anonymousreply 8507/24/2013

Agreed with R80. Not only is this thread perfect troll bait, it's perfect bait for a *wide* variety of mental illnesses - and certainly not limited to "Rick's." R4/R50/R55/R57, etc. clearly have their own issues out the wazoo.

Since no one's answered the question below, however, I'll take a stab at it:

[quote]That is weird! And the pills are not harming you internally - why would they?

You'd be shocked at what many smart, otherwise normal people think when it comes to taking daily doses of any sort of medication. I know a few people who refuse to take even a fucking *allergy* pill (meaning OTC Claritin and the like), let alone a SSRI that legitimately alters your brain chemistry, albeit in most cases for the better. One of the smartest women I know -- my high school's salutatorian -- somehow ended up believing all manner of New Age fringe bullshit, particularly when it comes to immunizations for kids. Just yesterday she let loose some ridiculous screed on Facebook about how people need to install reverse-osmosis water filters in their homes if they drink tap water because it's "filled with huge doses of antidepressants" that, yes, "harm you internally." She didn't like it when I suggested Evian was promoting that rumor just to keep people buying absurdly expensive two-bucks-a-liter H2O...

by Anonymousreply 8607/25/2013

She's right, you're wrong R86.

by Anonymousreply 8707/25/2013

Why do total doormats like r13 always want other people to also be total doormats?

by Anonymousreply 8807/25/2013

I would definitely caution against getting vaccinations. Especially these flu vaccines. Very bad. Look up "Lambert Pharmaceutical." I think people should have the right to get shots, but I insist on my right not to. I know stuff.

by Anonymousreply 8907/25/2013

Not enough stuff R89, not enough stuff.

by Anonymousreply 9007/25/2013

If a person is living independently not under someone's care then it'll be up to them whether they take medication or not. Some bipolar people enjoy their high too much to ever take medication and no amount of lecture & coercion is going to work. That seems to be the case with OP's friend.

Seems to me if OP wants the friendship then he'll probably have to make the first conciliatory gesture. If this was a one time thing then maybe it can be worked out. But if he habitually throws fits and leaves you stranded then maybe it's not worth it especially as you have another bipolar friend.

by Anonymousreply 9107/25/2013

To med or not to med? Look up the Gut and Psychology Syndrome. Can make neuro changes with what you do and don't eat.

by Anonymousreply 9207/25/2013


Bipolar or not, he's a controlling asshole, while you're a typical fair-weather type, the kind that can't stand bipolars because you never know which fact to bring when you meet them.

The emotional intensity suggests ongoing or unresolved sexual tension at least in one direction. Could be his anger (or yours) is a deflection of that.

it seems both of you hvae the purpose in life of making us feel better about ourselves, because in no way could we ever be even remotely as fucked up as you two.

Hope that helps.

by Anonymousreply 9307/25/2013


NOT to med, unless someone proves they are a threat to others and/or themselves, and only then as an alternative to incarceration or institutionalization.

People call it "manic" because "brilliant" is just too hard for them to confront, given their mdiocre lives.

by Anonymousreply 9407/25/2013


Bipolars who don't break the law don't need meds.

They just need to get judgemental lay idiots like you out of their lives. Then they're fine.

by Anonymousreply 9507/25/2013

Did you grovel back to the nut OP or man up and leave him the f alone?

by Anonymousreply 9607/25/2013

Good grief. I scrolled for days.

It was a little tiff. Let it go.

I don't think he's mentally ill either. You're just mad.

by Anonymousreply 9707/25/2013

OP, how have you been able to maintain a 10 year friendship with Rick up until this recent incident? Surely you have observed him in these type of outbursts in the past and have known how to handle it. What do you think was signifcantly different this time? Perhaps his bipolar disorder is becoming more acute. In my life I have learned and accepted the sometimes friends aren't forever. People change and what was one a compatible relationship may no longer be. I have to disagree with many previous commenters about not loving friends. In my opinion, friendship is a form of love but one that requires conditions. It's the kind of love that we develop for friends because they have characteristics, qualities, belief systems, common interests and values we seek in people to socialize with and trust. If the conditions we require aren't met in an individual, the we are less inclined to call that person a friend. Acquaintances are really not friends as they have a smaller role in your life. Friendship love is conditional love. Unconditional love is loving someone completely, despite themselves, warts and all.

If Rick is not meeting your conditions you need in a friend or you are no longer meeting his conditions, then your friendship has changed and you have to really ask yourself if this is what you really want. Rick obviously knows he does not keep friends well and he has to be responsible for that. He chooses not to help himself with his disease and you might want to consider that as a condition for you that you require in a friend. You were treated badly and are still hurting from it. You didn't deserve that treatment but you also might want to ask yourself if this is the kind of friendship you really want in your life. Sometimes we all have to evaluate our friendships and edit for the better. Best to you.

by Anonymousreply 9807/25/2013

Of for fucks sake. The vacation was too damn long. I would probably have an outburst too if I was on a vacation for two whole weeks with any one of MY friends.

Yes, OP, something happened on that visit with your SF friend. You probably didn't even notice, but whatever it was, it got under his skin. Maybe he was jealous of the other guy's sane and happy life. Maybe a jokingly bitchy comment was made, that didn't even register with you, but your travel buddy let it fester. Then he used your mildly bad driving as an excuse to pop off.

Honestly, this sounds a lot like everyday female BFF drama (I'm female). You two just need get together for a drink, apologize, have a good cathartic cry over it and move on. Then go and get a mani/pedi together.

by Anonymousreply 9907/25/2013

OP is a lot less concerned about the friendship. He wants the fancy hotels and rental cars he cant afford on his own. And the bipolar dude wants a little bit of action in return... just a little something for making these trips possible. So he's frustrated that he's not getting the BJ he deserves.

by Anonymousreply 10007/25/2013

[quote]The vacation was too damn long.

I agree. One week was good.

[quote] You probably didn't even notice, but whatever it was, it got under his skin. Maybe he was jealous of the other guy's sane and happy life.

Actually, now that I think about it, this friend in the Castro was BFs with both me and Rick's husband at one time. But Rick seemed to be really having a good time with him. Maybe it did put his nose out of joint somehow.

[quote]OP is a lot less concerned about the friendship. He wants the fancy hotels and rental cars he cant afford on his own. And the bipolar dude wants a little bit of action in return...

I'm not really like that. I'm more of a wingman. When you're friends with a bipolar person, you have to explain their behavior sometimes. We were at a fancy event during the vacation and I noticed Rick talking to a couple of guys in his usual dramatic, intense way. After he moved on, they began to talk to me about him. "He's a weird guy. How do you know him." I told them he's an old friend. They asked what he does. I said, "Nothing." And I told them that Rick is the heir to three old money fortunes and he just inherited. The next thing you know, they were hanging off him, having their pictures taken with them. Smiling and slapping him on the back.

I admit I like the finer things in life. Who doesn't? But I've never asked them for anything and never would. Rick locked me into this vacation so fast after I said I was taking a couple of weeks and would be out in CA. Two **hours** after I said this, I was sent an itinerary. Locked in. Hotels, car, activities, etc., just the two of us. I appreciated the beautiful places we went to, and I like luxury just as much as the next guy, but I went on this vacation as a friend.

I have never asked anything from him, and I never will. Honest. I turn down extravagant gifts. But this is all besides the point. I bet a lot of people here know people with money. Some of them they click with, some of them they don't. Same with me.

by Anonymousreply 10107/25/2013

"And no one has the right to force, blackmail or coerce someone else into taking pills or seeing a shrink, really you people are so inappropriate at times."

Not without conservatorship, anyway. But to tell a person who refuses to treat his mental illness that you will not maintain a relationship under these circumstances is not coercion, blackmail, or force... it's stating your boundaries! Hah! No, seriously, if a friendship breaks up over this issue, it's because your friend is doing something you can't stand, and that is how a lot of friendships end.

And why the hell are some of you ranting about antidepressants? They aren't a first-line treatment for bipolar disorder, you should be bitching about antipsychotics if you want to contribute.

by Anonymousreply 10207/25/2013

Drugs don't help. But you'd be surprised what a positive difference eating a gluten-free diet makes on both physical and mental health problems. The people who talked about the gut issues is right. The anti-depressants don't work, but they do mess up digestion and cause horrible stomach aches.

Listen to your heart OP. I'm sure your friend would be there for you if you got sick (physically or mentally.) DL has a lot of mean people on it. Don't be one yourself.

by Anonymousreply 10307/25/2013

I guess I'm confused R101 on how encouraging a bunch of money hungry insincere people to pretend to like your friend at a party is acting like a wing man or being a good friend. Does your friend know you play these kinds of games with him? Is he in on the joke?

It almost makes it look like you're using his mental illness to your benefit. Are you sure you're not reconsidering becoming friends again because you're in the mood for a vacation?

by Anonymousreply 10407/25/2013

OP, has your friend tried Magick as a treatment? Witches know how to use the magickal arts for the good of humankind. Earth Mother Gaia will help bring all natural things into alignment. Your friend needs only to plug into the good feelings of the universe, and all will be well.

by Anonymousreply 10507/25/2013

[quote]Are you sure you're not reconsidering becoming friends again because you're in the mood for a vacation?

Nope. I have some money of my own. Not like him but I can go on a vacation every once in a while without going broke.

[quote]I'm confused [R101] on how encouraging a bunch of money hungry insincere people to pretend to like your friend at a party is acting like a wing man or being a good friend. Does your friend know you play these kinds of games with him? Is he in on the joke?

I used to do this with my "broke" bipolar friend all the time. You try to help make them look good. In his case, I feel like he's taught me what unconditional love is all about.

I bet lots of "enablers" like me could second that (trying to make their friends look good). Anyway, talking about his money was a lame thing to do. But illuminating when I saw how they reacted.

[quote]But to tell a person who refuses to treat his mental illness that you will not maintain a relationship under these circumstances is not coercion, blackmail, or force... it's stating your boundaries!

Tks R4 etc. I know I want him in my life. I just want him calmed down a little bit. His husband was even advised by a shrink to leave him. But he stays. "I know he loves me." It's like we're all waiting for him to get "better."

by Anonymousreply 10607/25/2013

Wake up, fool. The dude is a NUT! Leave him alone and move on.

by Anonymousreply 10707/25/2013

Did no one catch the gem that both the OP and Rick's husband dated the Castro friend?

by Anonymousreply 10807/25/2013

Wow. I just read this string over and was knocked out by all the insights. I had dinner by chance tonight with a family therapist and she pretty much agreed with R4 etc and many of the others who wondered why I would be friends with someone who was unmedicated. But she also wondered why I would get so angry with someone who I knew was bipolar, especially since I knew he was unmedicated. I do have a history. I tend to be devoted to my friends. And I've always liked oddballs. It took a while, but Gerry changed, and even Rick noticed. Maybe I planted a seed. Maybe things will get better.

by Anonymousreply 10907/25/2013

I am "elder" (59) who was diagnosed late in life: 55 depressed; I became disabled (mental) (I HATE it), then at 57 "re-diagnosed" as Bipolar II (the milder version: me and Catherine Zeta-Jones,doncha know.) I find this discussion fascinating;I can see many sides - it's been helpful for me to see on this thread how "we" affect people.

I find that medication: prozac, topomax, seroquel - hasn't helped me. Agree with the posters who say it causes weight gain, etc. BUT I also know, from 1 brief hospitalization for mental illness that there are a TON of people who are helped. The actor Maurice Benard (GH, but you knew that!) has written about this; also I was around severely mentally disabled people in the hospital long enough to know: yes, some people had better be on their meds.

I just wanted to say - not in a defensive, but "real" way - I have found, being able to "look at" myself a bit, perhaps from being diagnosed so late in life: I know with me, a lot of my "manic" behavior comes from:

- a place of insecurity. I babble and babble sometimes; I come across too intense conversationally; my brother who has control of my money (sucks, but I'm the one who ploughed through a $75K inheritance in less than 2 years, still don't see what was "wrong" with this!() and would have ended up on this the street( brother helped me get on SS); ANYway, brother despairs sometimes 'cause I speak "inappropriately":

after I'll babble on and on, I sit at home and tell myself, I'll behave "better" next time. I stay in my apt as much as possible sometimes, worrying about saying the wrong thing. I like to talk! and I actually don't realize until someone tells me: "it's too much."

Like now, hee-hee! Normal people are sleeping; I'm rattling away here. But I DO take solace and it is helpful - to read things here; THANK YOU.

by Anonymousreply 11007/26/2013

R110), you sound a lot like the person I am/was until recently. I knew I was bipolar as i had been diagnosed in the early 1990's, and I had tried to get help numerous times. Money and no insurance was a big factor, but so were lousy MD's and therapists I was assigned or had chosen. Recently I decided I had enough, and I found a fantastic Nurse practitioner and therapist. The new drugs for bipolar depression work much better than those before them (I take Lamictal)with less side effects. I used to hide away from fear I would make a fool of myself, and believe me, there were PLENTY of those episodes. I have found my medication and Cognitive behavioral Therapy have really made a difference, and others have noticed also.

by Anonymousreply 11107/26/2013

Thanks R110 and R111. Your stories help remind me why I don't like to give up on people I've become friends with. The sensitivity and insights are so welcome and familiar to me. Your experiences sound like what happened with Gerry. He spent his whole childhood alone and friendless, wearing a path in the grass in his backyard. Doctors suggested meds very early on but his Mother wouldn't allow it. He could not stop talking. He would make up stories to appear more interesting to people, who would feel betrayed when they found out the truth. My friends were like, "We understand why you look after Gerry. Will you being staying long?" I think what it is for me is that I have always known how beautiful Gerry is but it took a friend to create the showdown which caused him to finally talk to a doctor. We were visiting a friend in Woodstock. Gerry was following our friend around the garden peppering him with questions. Through the window, I saw our host trying to get away from him. Finally, he told him, loudly, to stop hounding him. On the way home in the car we had an argument and I gave up. It was apparently going to take rock bottom before any change was going to come. And we both found it that day. I attended some therapy sessions with Gerry and he spent hour after hour just sobbing in this "safe place." He was put on full disability right away. Then the progress began. Little things. The first time I realized he was tracking my conversation and carrying it forth. That was a biggie. I think in some cases, we are touched by people in our lives. It's something they may have said when we really needed to hear it and they were prepared to say it. I can't explain why these two people, Rick and Gerry, have touched my heart.

I think R110 expressed Gerry's own experience perfectly. He now takes his pills without fail. He likes that people don't back off from him anymore to start looking for an escape. I would do anything for him. He manages his own money now, lives in a rent-controlled apt. where he's free to watch all the sports on TV he wants. It took 20 years but it was worth it.

by Anonymousreply 11207/26/2013

I'm getting this thread confused with the thread by the guy who's dating a rich guy, but who wants to drop him because rich guy doesn't compliment him enough.

And then wasn't there a guy a few months ago who was mad because his newly rich friend, who had married an old money bipolar guy, shrieked at him for not acting appropriately in a restaurant?

Do you all know each other?

by Anonymousreply 11307/26/2013

[quote]And then wasn't there a guy a few months ago who was mad because his newly rich friend, who had married an old money bipolar guy, shrieked at him for not acting appropriately in a restaurant?

That was me! Same guys.

Rick and the BF took a bunch of us to Gordon Ramsay at the London Hotel and got us the chef's table. I pulled a face the BF didn't like when the check came, and he dressed me down at the table. "If you're going to behave like that, you WON'T be invited back again." The BF came back to NYC a week later and everything was fine again.

by Anonymousreply 11407/26/2013

R21 is what I still come here for.

by Anonymousreply 11507/26/2013

I really don't see the problem.

OP is a money-grubbing leach and Rick is a manic, controlling nut job with money.

You go together like peanut butter and jelly.

by Anonymousreply 11607/26/2013

[quote]OP is a money-grubbing leach

Um, wouldn't that be "leech?"

by Anonymousreply 11707/26/2013

Um, no - I meant "leach"

by Anonymousreply 11807/26/2013

Oh, ESL, eh 118?

by Anonymousreply 11907/26/2013

OP, why the fuck are you friends with these people?

Is it because you get the chef's table and the paid for vacations because the only vibe I get out of all of this is a lot of ugliness.

by Anonymousreply 12007/26/2013

I see nothing wrong whatsoever with the OP being friends with the friend, Rick.

I hope the OP can patch up the friendship.

by Anonymousreply 12107/26/2013

[quote]OP, why the fuck are you friends with these people?

They're nice. I'm relating one incident that wasn't so nice. Okay two. I love them. Things like the chef's table are lost on me because I'm not a foodie like Rick is. I'm just venting about an incident that happened. But we don't have to talk about them anymore. I'm even boring myself. But I did like reading about other people's experience with bipolar disorder on this string. It was truly enlightening.

Tks R121.

by Anonymousreply 12207/26/2013

r119 - have more than a 3rd grade vocabulary?

Yes, I know your limited vocabulary makes it necessary to assume that I intended to refer to him as a 'leech' to imply he's a bloodsucking parasite.

However, I actually intended to make a broader indictment against his very existence by reducing it to begin and end with merely being the act of separating the valuable components.

Leach: v. to empty, drain. n. the act or process of leaching.

"a world leached of pleasure, voided of meaning"

I realize the the idea of a homonym may be confusing and that a more vivid, less literal use of language to convey an idea may make you confused and angry.

Oh, and by the way, 'leach' is also an accepted alternate spelling of 'leech' according to Merriam-Webster, so even if I had intended to refer to the parasite, I would still be fine.

by Anonymousreply 12307/26/2013

Rick? Is that you at R123??

Anyway, nice attempt at a save. I mean, it didn't work, but credit for trying.

by Anonymousreply 12407/26/2013

lesbian drama. Men dont act that way. Plus, men dont get bipolar. And those that do, jsut drink.

This is classic woman bullshit and anyone who cant tell - especially the women who are going to attack this post - as as sick as the codependent poster.

Admit it, deal with it... or attack me and stay in your comfortable illness.

by Anonymousreply 12507/26/2013

OP at R114,

From your other thread, I had the impression that you had known the BF for years and had only recently met the bipolar guy through him.

by Anonymousreply 12607/26/2013

Yes, R126, you remember it right. Rick's husband Bryce is an old friend going back 25 years. Rick's a writer of horror movies (insert laugh here) and I write humor (again, insert laugh here). I met Rick when Bryce brought him to New York about 10 years ago just after they got married in CA. Rick and I became closer because we have very similar interests, backgrounds, and a mutual admiration society. Bryce is a former model and the quiet type. Rick and I are talkers. Over the years, Rick has expressed a desire for us to get to know each other better. This is how this trip happened.

by Anonymousreply 12707/26/2013

OP, you can patch up the friendship, but you know that one day you will most likely have to give him the ultimatum that you gave your other friend who was unmedicated. We can only hope that this friend will also get help.

I went through a similar drama this spring and now I'm down one friend (and I miss him terribly, but he needs meds and rehab). I stuck with him through thick and thin, and I was his next to last friend (I assume he still has the one). But enough was enough and he won't get situation also escalated more than yours currently has. Good luck to you.

by Anonymousreply 12807/26/2013

[quote]I went through a similar drama this spring and now I'm down one friend (and I miss him terribly, but he needs meds and rehab). I stuck with him through thick and thin, and I was his next to last friend.

I hope your friend gets some help and you can re-establish your friendship. It's the same thing with Rick, but I didn't realize how bad it was. Practically his only friends besides me are on his payroll. Our first stop was at an actor friend of Rick's in Laguna, one of his longest friends. The guy (Robert Englund of "Freddie Kruger" fame) would not come downstairs to say hello to Rick, and Rick has known him for 25 years. "Freddie's" wife entertained us. When we got to the Pelican Hill resort, a short drive away, Rick had four villas reserved, each with 3 bedrooms and 3 baths, plus a 2-car garage. They were beautiful with views over the golf course and out to Catalina. We each had one -- one for Rick, one for me, one for his financial planner, and one for his golf pro. BUT, the financial planner didn't show up until the next day. Same with the golf pro, which means two villas went empty. I couldn't believe it because these places were magnificent. Why wouldn't they come down to stay? Why did they only show up for a game of golf? But when I saw how Rick interacted with these guys when they DID arrive, I understood. I mean, Rick insulted the financial guy's mother! To his face. He thought he was funny. Totally didn't realize the inappropriateness of his remark. "Did he just insult my mother?" the guy asked me. "Sure sounded like it," I said. He had never been rude like that to me, and it shocked me. But this was nothing compared to the blitz he went on in the car driving back to the hotel in SF. I feel like he took the long knives out of his rucksack and murdered our friendship in one short car ride. Later, I thought I should have been a bit more understanding of what he was going through. And here I am still going on about Rick and Bryce after I said I was boring even myself with this topic.

by Anonymousreply 12907/26/2013

OP at R127,

Ahah! Now I have another one for you--

Were you also the poster a few months ago that posted you had a friend (Rick?) who had screamed in your face about something, but you didn't want to cut ties with him because you had "film projects" you were collaborating on?

PS. I have an ultra-retentive memory. My fam and friends say "ask the elephant," meaning me--as in "elephants never forget"--when they can't remember something.

by Anonymousreply 13007/26/2013

Can someone give me the cliffs notes to this thread. How is everyone related?

by Anonymousreply 13107/27/2013

OP you said you haven't seen or spoken to Rick in 2 months.You've had a longer friendship with Bryce. Are you also not speaking to him?

On the bright side, at least your friend isn't calling everyone ugly on Twitter nor starting driveway fires as a certain celeb who's about to be diagnosed possibly as bipolar has done.

by Anonymousreply 13207/27/2013

[quote]Were you also the poster a few months ago that posted you had a friend (Rick?) who had screamed in your face about something, but you didn't want to cut ties with him because you had "film projects" you were collaborating on?

No, not me. But that's curious. Do you have that thread? Rick did collaborate on a film project with someone a couple of years ago. I thought it was hysterical. Rick's agent said the screenplay was "too gay" and refused to pitch it. The collaborator was upset with him for not trying harder, and I don't think the speak anymore.

I have not heard from Bryce. Rick texted me that I was to blame for this whole debacle, and that "Bryce won't be your friend anymore." Bryce wrote me that Rick was wrong. But, no, I haven't heard from either of them. It's only a month. The road trip started on June 8, and ended in SF on June 15.

I miss both of them. I feel like I should have been a little more understanding with Rick, knowing he was paranoid. But I haven't called or written. It wasn't my fault even if I feel badly about what happened.

by Anonymousreply 13307/27/2013

Hey OP at R133,

Now that I re-read that thread, this guy is a ruthless, conniving bastard. Your Rick just sounds a bit petulant.

Here it is--

by Anonymousreply 13407/27/2013

You mean OP of this thread was probably R11 of that thread?

"Bipolar. I'm going on vacation with an unmedicated bipolar friend soon. I'm like practically his only friend. He is intense, paranoid, overwhelming, and endlessly fascinating. The 'mental illness' doesn't scare me. He's not a sociopath. He's just wired differently. A lot of these guys won't go on meds because they like the buzz of the high before they slip into a depression."

by Anonymousreply 13507/27/2013

As another bipolar person here, I have to say it's no excuse to be off of your meds if your behavior is so off the rails that it upsets others or harms yourself. It also means that as a friend of the bipolar person, it's your responsibility not to enable that behavior on your watch, so to speak, by agreeing to accompany the person when you know what he's like off meds. The fact that he's willing to pay for everything means that you're willing to be bought to put up with his shit. It's enabling and totally wrong OP.

Now, if the guy was okay without meds and his behavior then isn't a question for you, you'd have no problem, so you should be better able to see the real problem.

I'm bipolar 2, and can relate to the posts of R110, R111, R112 and was very Gerry-like at one time. I would also pace alone, make up stories to try to get people to like me and ask people questions as a way to show I was interested in them so they'd like me and I'd fit in. None of this worked because I was too intense in my sub-manic phases. I ended up using these times for my own creative projects and only ever had a few friends in my life. I would sleep only a few hours or not at all and talk to myself constantly. (Okay I still do all that, but I cope and check myself about how I'm feeling and it's my own kind of therapy that actually works.)

The one friend I had at a time was always a good friend who cared about me and not the "casual" kind of friends mentioned. BUT, I never manipulated them into putting up with my bad behavior by paying for trips or anything like your friend is doing to you, OP. Don't put up with shit. Support your friend, but putting up with behavior that you don't like for two weeks is not supporting him, but enabling him.

I could babble on here two for at least another 25 paragraphs, but I'm going to stop myself. Being self-aware (ask yourself how you're feeling and why each mood could be happening) and self-editing (be conscious of how others are reacting to your behavior) are ways of self-therapy that have worked for me. When I'm so depressed I cry constantly and don't want to move, I talk myself out of it by understanding myself. I swear it all works and my friends and family have no more complaints than they do with "normal" people. But, again, I'm bipolar 2 and a milder case.

by Anonymousreply 13607/28/2013

Hey R134, I think that is me at R11 on that thread. And you're right, I don't think that is Rick being described in that thread. He's not a looker, though not ugly, and I've never heard of him having lots of sex with different people. It's odd about that movie they did together, but he says it's a documentary. That's not him. But some of the behavior sounds like him. His angry monologues can be frightening if you're easily intimidated.

R136, you do sound a little like Gerry. But I disagree with your assumption that I 'manipulate' bipolar people into giving me free trips. During their last trip to NYC, I'm the one who brought it up to him when we were alone. I also said that many hi-functioning BP types refuse medication because they like the manic high. And that he seems like he might be one of them. He agreed. But you're right. And it's like my therapist friend said the other night. "Why would go on a trip with an unmedicated bipolar person?"

I guess the answer to that question is I spent many years with an unmedicated Gerry and I love him more today than I did the day I met him. With Gerry, bipolar disorder is only one of the problems he deals with. In his case, he has no money and I helped support him for many years, though he always worked, usually as a home health aide in the projects, rough. I don't decide to whom I'll be close based on their bank account. I have friends all over the, uh, spectrum, lol. The stories Gerry came home with from his Medicaid "patients" were touching and heartwarming to me. I saw his heart so brilliantly during those times.

I think the string I started about Rick and Bryce was called "The Arrogance of the Newly Rich" or something like that. I was the OP on that thread. I'd look for it but I'm late picking up my Dad to drive him to the airport.

Thanks for taking time out to share your experiences with me.

by Anonymousreply 13707/28/2013

op, only crazy runs after crazy

by Anonymousreply 13807/28/2013

Weighing in on the medication discussion, I'm Bipolar II and have only ever had two medications that worked for me. The first, worked wonderfully for a year and a half then plateaued. My doctor took me off it and tried something else for awhile which did no good, about two years later we went back to the god one. It worked, but not as well and for only about six months. Finally we found something that worked wonderfully and I was thankful for that, then we did a liver panel... The medication was discontinued immediately as it had caused my liver enzymes to rise to levels that if maintained for an extender period would cause irreversible damage.

Since then I remain unmedicated because the class of drug that works for me causes liver issues in some patients and that seems to be the case for me. I should have known this because when I was 19, I finished giving my first gallon of blood to the Red Cross I'd never drank or taken any pills at that point and I was sent a letter telling me that in the months since my previous donation my ALT levels had jumped from 56 to 126 and that the Red Cross didn't accept donations from those with ALT levels over 120. My Doctor did a shit ton of blood work and nothing could be found to be wrong. Now my enzymes stay normal as long as I stay off meds and don't drink more than once every few months.

by Anonymousreply 13907/28/2013

I think going on medication for anything is a difficult decision to make. I just don't like the attitude I see here on this thread that the bipolar person is a bad person that should be shunned and punished if he choose not to go on medication. The suggestion seems to be the OP should make his friendship conditional on whether his friend chooses to medicate or not. How is that not manipulative?

Obviously the OP's friend is fully functioning in many ways. He has someone who was willing to marry and live with him. He has a career. It certainly helps that he has money as well. He also apparently goes through periods where he's not a nice person and he throws tantrums.

The OP's decision is not whether this guy should go on medication or not. That's really not his decision to make. It's whether he can put up with this guy who has these flaws & this medical condition and whether he wants to remain friends.

If the OP does contact his friend don't let him off the hook for behaving badly. He needs to let him know how he was insulting to him and hurt him. If he can't even acknowledge his fault then maybe the friendship isn't going to work.

by Anonymousreply 14007/28/2013

Good post, R140. I also think that OP was foolish to embark on a two week vacation with someone he knew had mental/emotional issues and could behave erratically. The chances of it happening on a vacation are probably 100% since there are many stressors that can set someone off. Even the most even tempered people can be driven nuts while on extended vacations with family and friends.

A good friend doesn't say, "take these pills or I won't be friends with you." They say, "I hope you get the help you need, but if you decide not to get treatment, please know that, for my own wellbeing, I may not always be able to be around you, because I can't handle your behavior towards me when you go off on your tirades."

by Anonymousreply 14107/28/2013

Good posts and they raise a lot of questions.

I now get it.

I saw it in action.

His old friend Robert wouldn't come downstairs. They were supposed to come to the resort the next day but wouldn't. They never met up on the trip at all.

I wonder if Robert is practicing "tough love" by ignoring Rick until he gets himself some help or decides to go on medication.

In any event, that is the case for us now. I have no intention of contacting Rick but I do miss him.

I like what R139 had to say. It was rough with Gerry and before he got help we went out to the very edge of our friendship where I was prepared to walk away. I'm not here to put anyone on medication. Rick was able to be fully functioning the entire trip except for the last few hours, where he couldn't contain the anxiety and paranoia anymore. By "fully functioning" I mean he appeared normal in every respect while he was with me, alone.

I appreciate all your responses.

by Anonymousreply 14207/28/2013

[quote]I should have known this because when I was 19, I finished giving my first gallon of blood to the Red Cross

OT, but how are you giving blood unless you're actually a virgin?

by Anonymousreply 14307/28/2013

I can't believe you agreed to go on a two week vacation with an unmedicated bipolar who was picking up all the expenses.

by Anonymousreply 14407/28/2013

R144, like I said before, my therapist friend asked me the same thing. Was I naïve? Guess so. My father, also a shrink, agreed with the therapist, and with many of you when I took him to the airport this morning. I'll say it again. I've known many unstable people with good hearts. Rick is one of them. A good person with a big heart. Bryce would be very wealthy in his own right if he left Rick. Like I said, they've been married for ten, known each other for 20, and there is no prenup. He could live very well on his own with the settlement he could expect to receive. So, why does he stay? Bryce is the exact opposite of Rick. Laid back and easygoing. There has to be something there.

by Anonymousreply 14507/28/2013
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