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George Orwell's "1984" and Scieno/Cult Why don't celebs/average people leave . . .

"There’s a different answer for every person involved. But let me take a crack at this. Scieno isn’t just a book, or tape or a single moment in an auditing session. It’s Pandora’s Box, but with none of the negative connotations. I believe every person that “connects” with Scieno believes there is greatness within that box and it could be there’s. Incrementally a Scieno has wins, small segments of their lives that become less weird, less troublesome, less of a continuous upset for them. This sense of relief and the potential that it will continue and grow, is fundamental to why “we willingly” go to get modified. There is no desire to be modified or changed or adjusted in any way. There’s only a desire to stay connected and continue that journey of discovery. But as many of us have discovered, simply having the tech available is no guarantee that it will be delivered with a pure heart.

I don’t believe any of us willingly accept abuse. It’s simply a byproduct of our belief system and our desire to see things through to an honest conclusion. It’s the “down” side to wanting Scieno to work like it was intended to and an abiding sense that it still can – some how. The abuse that is documented . . . has absolutely nothing to do with Scientology. This abuse and suppression is to Scientology, what suicide bombers and other forms of violence is to Islam. In the end, it’s crazy people doing crazy things and feeling justified in their actions. They’re not.

I worked in the cult for over 35 years and I’m not sure I understand it completely myself. Of course, it’s not CALLED “thought modification.” It’s all in the guise of “helping” you to understand yourself better and be more aware. Just like Scieno policies are said to be there to build a stronger and more coordinated team. What happens is that over time an individual’s ability and even ideas about BEING an individual who has ANY control over their own life is slowly but surely beaten down by disapproval, threats and punishments until the individual has given up to a large degree, and so you simply do what you are told. Until for some . . . a line is crossed and you are hit hard enough or get your reality assaulted enough to wake up and walk out.

It’s not like they come to you and say, “we are going to brainwash you now.”

There is no short answer, or easy answer. Any more than there is an easy answer to explain why someone would sacrifice themselves to strap on a bomb and blow up a bus in Israel, or “agree” to be burned at the stake because they refused to renounce their faith, or set themselves on fire in the streets of Saigon. Obviously, these are extreme examples. But they serve to illustrate that people will do things that are not self interested and appear completely not understandable to those who are not involved."

by Anonymousreply 707/12/2013

Thanks for posting that. You've obviously put a great deal of thought into this issue. I understand what you've said but only to a point.

Please let me ask you a personal question - I mean no offense and I hope that you don't take any.

Do you think they're insane? I mean both those who put up with the abuse and degradation and those who inflict it - are they crazy? Do you look back on your years in the cult and see your thought process, behavior and beliefs as, literally, insane?

I don't mean the useful techniques. Hubbard apparently "borrowed" some decent stuff from various disciplines and those bits aren't nuts. I mean the paranoia, the nastiness, the physical abuse, the mind control and brainwashing, the prisons (for lack of a better term). To me, it's people tolerating that shit that makes Scientology insane.

However, I've never been in a cult and I really don't know what it's like.

by Anonymousreply 107/11/2013

I have never been in a cult either. While attending UCLA, I analyzed cults in cultural anthropology courses. I was once paid to do research on Scienos by the corporate law firm with which I was then employed. As an actress, I've met many desperate thespians who were convinced that joining Scienos would advance their careers. My personal encounters with Scienos remind me of my favorite movie, the original Manchurian Candidate. I wish I could do more to help victims of abuse, especially if they are children.

Most of the comments that I've been posting on these threads have quotation marks, meaning that I didn't write them. I do add my own personal opinions, based on my observations. Hopefully others find the posts insightful.

I'm guessing that the majority of cult members, who were not born into it, were either lapsed Catholics, former drug users, or "lost souls" searching for meaning and purpose. Like the actors desperate for "a break," Scienos high pressure recruiters convince you that they can solve all of your problems.

To those who've been brought up in families or religions where questioning authority leads to a beating, mental manipulation is easier to achieve. It's group think, extreme peer pressure, and even mind control on steroids. One's rational thinking is sublimated; one of the reasons for inducing Scieno speak.

How do military leaders convince pacifists to kill? Are commanders control freaks, or do they become that way after achieving some power? How about the recruits who willingly beat up malcontents?

I've read true story accounts of military officers in Morocco and Panama, accused of treason, and then tortured to death and shot. Life doesn't always have the same value to everyone. Likewise I've talked to religious martyrs that actually consider dying for their beliefs to be very noble and worthy.

R1, At what point do you consider someone else insane or crazy? Honestly, I think that there's a sliding scale.

by Anonymousreply 207/12/2013

Of course there's a sliding scale. We're talking about the emotional and psychological response of human beings to various levels of stress and distress, how could there not be?

Still, everyone has their "dealbreaker" do they not? I look at Remini and her family and see that they have evidently found theirs. All former cult members have come up against something in the cult that they could no longer tolerate.

I didn't realize that this was an academic thing for you. I noticed the quotation marks. I still thought you were an ex-cult member yourself and that was why you posted so much on this topic. I think we have had some ex-Scienos here over the years. A few active Scienos have been assigned here as well. It's always funny/weird when the active members come around with their delusional defensive blathering.

I suppose if I had to choose one thing that would send me fleeing for the hills, it would be confinement. If my "church" thought that they could put me in a cell, we'd have to part ways immediately.

by Anonymousreply 307/12/2013

R3, If they put you in a cell, how would you physically get past barbed wire and armed guards? Confinement is in the dessert, miles from anything else. Anyone in this concentration camp would get a little more food, just for ratting out other prisoners.

What if you didn't have any money or any real job skills, let alone an education? Likely you would also have limited knowledge of the outside world.

Celebs have extremely manipulative, special handlers that control their entire lives, and create dependency. They make sure that everyone around them, including all employees, is also a Scieno.

I still think that auditing results in physical as well as psychological dependency. Constant electrical currents to the brain replace the high from narcotics.

by Anonymousreply 407/12/2013

R3, There are many ex-Scienos that have posted on the Going Clear thread. Mind control and manipulation have always been an interest, especially if extreme religious indoctrination, in any form, is involved.

I've also frequently posted on threads which deal with gay "re-education" camps. Likewise the threads on phony psychics, the "existence" of ghosts, fraudulent claims that those from outer space created Aku-Aku, etc.

You would have had to have come from a family like mine to really understand the fear and anxiety that comes from never being allowed to have your own opinion about almost anything.

I value DL, in that most posters discuss ideas and facts in an intellectual way. I also sympathize with those who have been conditioned into turning their brains off when presented with info that doesn't initially make sense. Like my Chinese friends, forced into mentally accepting the idea that there isn't such a thing as gays in their home country, I can somewhat understand Scienos mentally, as well as physically, unable to leave their cult.

by Anonymousreply 507/12/2013

When I see how much abuse people accept from their families, and especially their employers, I am less surprised at how much they'll take from their religions.

There seems to be something in our basic makeup that says "belong, belong, do whatever you must to belong to the group". For all our belief in free will we still have the instincts of social animals, and we can be manipulated that way. Cults and religions aren't the only ones who take advantage of people that way, look how militaries turn independent young people into cannon fodder.

by Anonymousreply 607/12/2013

R6, It's not that people want to belong to an emotionally or physically abusive family, they're just too dependent. Few know how to find someone else to help them survive without dealing with worse problems. Otherwise more young gay teens would leave home.

Likewise workers are afraid of leaving jobs with a regular income. Surviving abusive backgrounds, means mentally turning off the psychic pain endured, as well as the physical.

Military service provides a substitute family but at a potentially terrible price. Like religion, there's a hierarchy and massive group think. Not all of it is at all healthy for the soul.

by Anonymousreply 707/12/2013
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