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Rising interest rate...and what it means for YOU!

So in one month, the average 30 year fixed rate mortgage has jumped by over 60 basis points. What does this mean for net purchasing power? Well, as the chart below shows, assuming a $2000/month budget to be spent on amortizing a mortgage (or otherwise spent for rent), it means that suddenly instead of being able to afford a $425K house, the average consumer can buy a $395K house.

This means that, all else equal, housing just sustained a 7% drop in the average equlibrium price based on what buyers can afford.

But assuming the current selloff in rates continues, things are going to get much worse: we may be seeing 5%, 5.5% even 6% and higher mortgages in the immediate future.

It also means that a buyer who could previously afford a $506K house with a $2,000 monthly budget at an interest rate of 2.5% will be able to afford only $316K if and when the average 30 Year fixed hits 6.5%: a 40% drop in affordability based on just a 4% increase in interest rates!

by Anonymousreply 19609/29/2013

Spam

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Libertarian

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.....

by Anonymousreply 206/25/2013

Artificial fractional interest rates are worse than heroin

by Anonymousreply 306/25/2013

Interest rates rose again.

That housing recovery is dying.

by Anonymousreply 406/25/2013

I really believe we are trying to kill the recovery. The economy still is too fragile to be messing with interest rates.

by Anonymousreply 506/25/2013

[quote] But assuming the current selloff in rates continues, things are going to get much worse: we may be seeing 5%, 5.5% even 6% and higher mortgages in the immediate future

I remember when it was almost 10%

by Anonymousreply 606/25/2013

Yup, and the so-called "natural" rate is widely estimated to be around 5.25%, which means that this self-panicking bullshit is just that: bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 706/25/2013

I'm sorry, but when I joined the DL I was told that there would be no math.

by Anonymousreply 806/25/2013

Don't forget that for many with safer investments in money market savings and/or CD accounts, well we're looking forward to increasing interest rates . . . . .many savers have really had income cut badly In recent years.

by Anonymousreply 906/25/2013

R5-

The Federal Reserve only sets the BASE overnight rate, while free market demand sets the 30y mortgage rate. The fact that it has surged by 25% in a month should scare you.

R6-

Can you remember when it was over 18% in the early 80s? If the government had to borrow at 10% it would take every penny in taxes just to pay interest on the debt. Does that sound sustainable?

R7-

Even at 5.75% the interest on US debt would take 42% of tax receipts just to pay interest.

The fact that interest rates are rising DRAMATICALLY (over 50% in 6 weeks) means that the bond market is doomed.

I hope that anyone reading this has ---

A) enough silver nickels, dimes and quarters to escape any large city.

B) an escape plan from that city, and has set "google alerts" so they can get out before the rest of their neighbors start to panic.

C) called and prepped close family in the countryside, and given them money so they will take you in once the dollar dies.

Yes, I know I will get mocked for posting this, but the world financial system has already died, and the current spasms are just warning symptoms.

by Anonymousreply 1006/25/2013

R10...GO AWAY

by Anonymousreply 1106/25/2013

[quote]Even at 5.75% the interest on US debt would take 42% of tax receipts just to pay interest.

We're talking mortgage rates, moron, not bond rates.

[quote]The fact that interest rates are rising DRAMATICALLY (over 50% in 6 weeks) means that the bond market is doomed.

So you've said before, repeatedly, over and over and over and over and over and over again, ad nauseam.

[quote]I hope that anyone reading this has ---

Enough of a brain to recognize that you're a paranoid loon with no connection to reality.

[quote]Yes, I know I will get mocked for posting this,

Yup, because you're an ignorant loon, posting oft-discredited drivel, who has demonstrated time and time again that you don't know what the hell you're talking about, just as with this post.

[quote]but the world financial system has already died, and the current spasms are just warning symptoms.

So people like you and Ron Paul have been claiming for literally decades (more than 30 years in Ron Paul's case). This prediction, like those earlier predictions, is laughably silly and wholly disconnected from reality.

by Anonymousreply 1206/25/2013

I love R12-

Someone so ignorant yet convinced she is right...fun!

by Anonymousreply 1306/25/2013

[quote]Someone so ignorant yet convinced she is right...fun!

ROFL.... Project much, dear?

Let's see, dear, whose predictions have come true these past half dozen years or so? Based on our posts here, I win that one hands down, and it's not even close.

by Anonymousreply 1406/25/2013

WhaaAT?

by Anonymousreply 1506/25/2013

Tell us again, R13, how gold couldn't possibly be in a bubble and how it's a fantastic investment which is going to climb to $20,000 an ounce!

by Anonymousreply 1606/25/2013

More words of wisdom from our dear little chum:

Gold coins are cheap now. At $1700+ they are a steal. Wait until the government defaults and it will be worth 10x that. Or more.

Gold will always pace or outpace inflation, when held over long periods.

Gold is much safer than any other stock or commodity.

Until the government is no longer in control of the money supply, gold will just go higher and higher.

Gold is a hedge against major inflation. Like Weimar or Argentinian level hyperinflation.

Gold is the best performing asset in the market.

Gold will keep going higher and higher until the Federal Reserve quits inflating.

Gold is still the best asset to hold compared to S&P or DJIA.

When the dollar is worth nothing, people will still want to trade gold for food, gas, etc.

That is why gold is not in a bubble. Trust me, I know more about this than you think you do.

[I just love that last one.]

by Anonymousreply 1706/25/2013

Just glad to have bought last year and only pay 3.5% on my mortgage. The economy's the economy, move along, folks.

by Anonymousreply 1806/25/2013

I am not a gold bug prepper, BUT, the rise in mortgage rates is going to hurt housing. It won't be super dramatic at first since so much of the hot money in housing is cash from investors, but, buyers relying on loans are going to see the amount they can afford shrink dramatically. It will ripple through the market and only dumb money is buying real estate right now.

When the next credit crunch hits, and the hot investor money flees the market, and all that's left is loans, everyone who bought a 500k 1 br condo in 2012 is going to feel stupid. And broke.

by Anonymousreply 1906/25/2013

[quote]I am not a gold bug prepper, BUT, the rise in mortgage rates is going to hurt housing

R19, nobody is denying that a rise in interest rates will affect housing purchases. Some people won't refinance, others won't purchase, others will purchase a cheaper house. What we're laughing at the OP about is his prediction of economic armageddon and catastrophe. He's been predicting this for years.

[quote]buyers relying on loans are going to see the amount they can afford shrink dramatically

Instead of a $250,000 house at 3.5%, they'll take a $210,000 house at 5%. Is that really worth making all this fuss, particularly when you consider that 3.5% was an anomaly, historically low rates that nobody expected to continue?

[quote] It will ripple through the market and only dumb money is buying real estate right now.

Um, why would it be "dumb" to take advantage of rates that are still at historically low levels? And housing prices that are still reasonable? This isn't like buying at the peak of a bubble and if you anticipate staying in your home for, say, ten years or more, buying now would likely be a smart decision, particularly since the expectation is that rates haven't reached their peak.

[quote]When the next credit crunch hits, and the hot investor money flees the market

I'd like to see at least some minimal evidence that the market is filled with "hot investor money."

by Anonymousreply 2006/26/2013

[quote]I really believe we are trying to kill the recovery.

Umm, another housing bubble would kill the entire economy! Might as well catch it early this time.

As someone looking to pay cash for a house, I'm happy as hell that this smoke & mirrors market may finally be coming to an end. It's LONG overdue.

by Anonymousreply 2106/26/2013

The only real issue is whether the current spike in mortgage rates will continue at the current accelerated rate, in which case there really is a problem, or whether it will level out. Everyone expected rates to rise (when they are at historically low levels there's nowhere else for them to go), but a *sustained* steep rise, over a period of several months, would have both real and psychological implications.

The OP, along with the websites he frequents, insists that the former is the scenario we are currently facing and that doom & gloom are waiting just around the corner (see, for example, his insane R10 post). However, he's been making these same predictions for years now and there's no real reason to believe that this prediction will be any more accurate than his countless others. Time will tell.

by Anonymousreply 2206/26/2013

R22-

The Federal Reserve has been buying the vast majority of new USTreasury bonds, and a large fraction of USMortgages. The mere hint that they might let the "evil free market" find a natural interest rate for those Tbills and Mortgages has panicked the (bankster manipulated unfree as hell)market.

That should tell you how precarious this system really is.

-------

Let me explain, in simple terms, QEinfinity.

Imagine you had a business and had 5,000 lines of credit---

CREDIT LINE ONE- 4,000@ 30yr @6%

CREDIT LINE TWO -800@ 10yr @4%

and

CREDIT LINE THREE- 200@ 2yr @2%.

You hit a rough patch, and need to refinance. That 6% rate is killing you, so you sell some of the 30yr and refinance at 2yr rates. You hope that reducing your long term borrowing costs you will be able to "grow out" of this rough patch.

After a year, your credit profile is this---

CREDIT LINE ONE- 200@ 30yr @5%

CREDIT LINE TWO- 800@ 10yr @3.5%

CREDIT LINE THREE- 4,000@ 1yr at 1.25%

You have succeeded! Your credit costs are much, much lower!!! Yahoooo, big party!

But remember, your company is the biggest in the world, and can temporarily control these rates, but exogenous shocks could cause problems. You can't fool Mother Nature.

Suddenly Muthafucking Nature (aka the free market) causes interest rates to rise and those 4,000 1yr @1.25% must be rolled over and the interest rate is 5%, or 10%.

Suddenly your payments rise, hard and fast.

That's what happening to the USGov today.

Research Austrian economics, and you will understand why the current system is doomed.

Maybe tomorrow. Maybe 10 years from now. But it will die, and the little people will suffer.

by Anonymousreply 2306/26/2013

[quote]The Federal Reserve has been buying the vast majority of new USTreasury bonds, and a large fraction of USMortgages.

False.

[quote]The mere hint that they might let the "evil free market" find a natural interest rate for those Tbills and Mortgages has panicked the (bankster manipulated unfree as hell)market.

False.

[quote]That should tell you how precarious this system really is.

Not really. It just tells us how ignorant you are.

[quote]Let me explain, in simple terms

ROFL.... Sadly, that's all you're capable of.

Rather than wade through the idiotic drivel that doesn't even rise to the level where it needs to be debunked, mostly since it has nothing at all to do with what's going on at the Fed, I will simply note that the Fed has done this literally dozens of times before. And each time, morons like you insisted that the whole thing was going to collapse. People like you have been predicting economic Armageddon for 100 years! Shouldn't we have seen that by now?

None of your personal predictions has come true in the half dozen or so years you've been spamming DL. Does it never occur to you stop and wonder why? And to rethink your philosophy since it is so obviously flawed?

Yeah, I didn't think so. Oh, well....

[quote]Research Austrian economics, and you will understand why the current system is doomed.

I did. And I giggled.

[quote]Maybe tomorrow. Maybe 10 years from now. But it will die, and the little people will suffer.

No it won't. As I said, morons like you have been making these predictions since the creation of the Fed. Ron Paul made similar predictions in the early 80s. None of these predictions has ever come true. Neither will this one, just like none of those predictions of yours quoted in R17 has come true. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

by Anonymousreply 2406/26/2013

Crash and burn, I agree. Except this time no bailouts for the overpaid criminals.

by Anonymousreply 2506/26/2013

I want to know where all that money lost in the housing bust went? How'd they make it just *disappear*?

by Anonymousreply 2606/26/2013

R22-

Please read what R24 wrote.

You will notice she doesn't provide an evidence to refute the facts, just bitchy bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 2706/26/2013

R26-

Re-read R23

The "gains" you made in your home were based on the Federal Reserve printing more and more money, and people spending that money on housing.

If you google "Peter Schiff" and look at the predictions he made about housing in 2006 you will begin to see why you lost money. If you look at economicpolicyjournal.com you will see what is coming for housing, stocks and bonds.

Hint- get ALL YOUR CASH out of bonds. They are going to crash.

Oh, and ignore R24- she is just a pest.

by Anonymousreply 2806/27/2013

[quote]You will notice she doesn't provide an evidence to refute the facts, just bitchy bullshit.

ROFL.... Dear heart, you wouldn't know a "fact" if it bit you in the ass. I will simply note that you completely failed to provide any evidence to support the supposed "facts" you cited. And you have the gall to complain when someone else looks at the drivel you post and just laughs? Yeah, right.

[quote]If you google "Peter Schiff" and look at the predictions he made about housing in 2006 you will begin to see why you lost money.

By all means Google Peter Schiff and his predictions. Among other things, you'll find the site at the link which shows that Peter Schiff, like the OP, has been consistently wrong for years, constantly predicting hyperinflation, a crashing dollar, gold at $5000 an ounce, and so on.

[quote]If you look at economicpolicyjournal.com you will see what is coming for housing, stocks and bonds.

I looked; I laughed. Figures that you'd like a site like that

[quote]Hint- get ALL YOUR CASH out of bonds. They are going to crash.

Hint: Anyone who takes financial advice from this moron is an idiot. Look at his advice quoted in R17.

[quote]Oh, and ignore [R24]- she is just a pest.

And yet, strangely, you are unable to provide any data to support your own silly assertions or contradict anything I post. Why is that?

by Anonymousreply 2906/27/2013

Gives me more time to save and pay cash for a property, I hate loans and cash gets the best deal.

by Anonymousreply 3006/27/2013

Zillow 30-Year Fixed Mortgage Skyrockets By Massive 50 bps In One Week To 4.38%, Most Since 2011

Just out from Zillow:

The 30-year fixed mortgage rate on Zillow(R) Mortgage Marketplace is currently 4.38 percent, up fifty basis points from 3.88 percent at this time last week. The 30-year fixed mortgage rate hovered between 3.82 and 4 percent late last week, before spiking up near the current rate over the weekend.

This represents the highest rate on Zillow Mortgage Marketplace since July 2011.

"Last week rates spiked up to levels not seen since July 2011 after Federal Reserve Chairman, Ben Bernanke reiterated the Fed's commitment to scale back its stimulus program later this year," said Erin Lantz, director of Zillow Mortgage Marketplace. "This coming week, we expect rates will be volatile as the market recalibrates and determines whether we've reached a new plateau near 4.5 percent or whether this week's rate spike was an overreaction that warrants a downward adjustment."

by Anonymousreply 3106/29/2013

Hmmm, I would've thought that some people would've noticed the increase in insurance premiums.

My buddy did.

by Anonymousreply 3306/29/2013

[quote]This coming week, we expect rates will be volatile as the market recalibrates and determines whether we've reached a new plateau near 4.5 percent or whether this week's rate spike was an overreaction that warrants a downward adjustment.

Bingo. Note that they are expecting only one of two outcomes: a new plateau or a downward adjustment.

[quote]If you can't back up your bullshit, why do you post?

ROFL.... Dear heart, since you never back up *your* bullshit, why should I? And if it's such "bullshit," it should be easy to refute and yet, somehow, you are never able to do so? Why is that? Oh, and the reason I'm here? I'm having fun. This isn't rocket science, dear.

[quote]Why not provide links to show the logical failure.

Which one? There are so many to pick from. I did provide the link that showed that Peter Schiff is an idiot. How many more links do you want?

[quote]The facts-

No, dear, they aren't.

[quote]I hope anyone that reads this will ignore [R12]-14-17-20-22-24-29 and her bullshit and look at their grocery bill, their rent, their utilities, their petrol and see that she is insane.

ROFL.... Oh, the irony.... Dear heart, the core inflation rate has been low. The price of bread and milk, for example, has been stable for years. The price of gas and utilities has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve. Housing costs are *down*. Now which of us is "insane" again?

[quote]The rest of the 99.9% are suffering, and quisling morons like [R12]-14-17-20-22-24-29 are just nazi enablers.

ROFL.... Love you too, snookums. And what's hilarious is that in a post in which you accused me of never posting links to back up my bullshit ... you didn't post a single link to back up your bullshit! Now do you see why I love your posts so much?

by Anonymousreply 3406/30/2013

As always, the resident Idiot Libertarian Spam Troll defines "Nazi" as "stuff I don't like".

Beyond pathetic.

by Anonymousreply 3506/30/2013

"their petrol"

??? why is a Brit posting as if they are American?

Seriously?

by Anonymousreply 3606/30/2013

Well, it's not like he can actually defend the drivel he spams here, R35, so he has to attack. Just look at the idiocies quoted in R17. Or his post at R10.

by Anonymousreply 3706/30/2013

Increased mortgage rates mean nothing to me. I'm locked in at less than 4%.

My first mortgage in the 1990s was an ARM. 30 yr mortgages were >8% and 15 yr were >7%. We gambled and we won, because interest rates declined.

My sister bought her first house in 1980 with a 12% mortgage rate.

Neither in 1980 nor in 1993 did the country fall to wrack and ruin. Barbarians did not beat at our gates. People did not jump out of windows. We did not need to pack an emergency bag and leave the city.

OP

Keep calm and carry on, 'kay?

by Anonymousreply 3806/30/2013

R38-

If your neighbor paid 300k for their house, and interest rate @ 8% means their ARM triples...well, your little garden dies.

They will abandon their home before paying $3k/mo for it.

The rise in interest rates will destroy the construction industry.

Ignorant, short-sighted morons like you scare me.

by Anonymousreply 3906/30/2013

I also remember when interests rates were in the teens. I already have a 5% mortgage, don't want refin due to incurring all the closing costs again.

by Anonymousreply 4006/30/2013

So why didn't the country fall apart when mortgage rates were more than double what they are now?

by Anonymousreply 4106/30/2013

Libertarian Asshole, why don't you post about what the doubling of federal student loan interest will immediately mean to current students, young adults recently graduated, future college students, and students?

But you don't care about that, do you, because that's just your God, The "Free" Market, doing what it should.

Thank god I went to college in the 80s, when one could finish an undergraduate program debt-free relatively easily.

by Anonymousreply 4206/30/2013

[quote]The rise in interest rates will destroy the construction industry.

Well, except for the one little inconvenient fact that we've had interest rates much higher than this in the past and yet, somehow, the construction industry was not, in fact, "destroyed." But hey, keep those claims of economic Armageddon coming. We can always use a good laugh.

by Anonymousreply 4407/01/2013

I want interest rates to skyrocket, personally. Ka-BOOM!

by Anonymousreply 4507/01/2013

R44-

I can look at house and tell it was built (shoddily) in the early 80s.

If interest rates go up to 10%, let alone 17% as they were in the early 80s, the construction industry will collapse. Right now the ConInd is built on decades of cheap mortgage rates.

by Anonymousreply 4607/01/2013

[quote]I can look at house and tell it was built (shoddily) in the early 80s.

No, actually you can't, and no, that doesn't have anything to do with the topic of this thread. Nice try at trying to save at least some face, though, now that you've had your ass handed to you yet again.

[quote]If interest rates go up to 10%, let alone 17% as they were in the early 80s, the construction industry will collapse.

No, actually, it won't, and no, the rates won't go that high. The economic conditions at this time are such that your usual predictions of economic Armageddon are as false as they ever were.

[quote]Right now the ConInd is built on decades of cheap mortgage rates

Total bullshit, as usual. Nice try, though.

by Anonymousreply 4707/01/2013

I love R47. Too stupid to know how stupid she is.

"Right now the ConInd is built on decades of cheap mortgage rates"

Are you really trying to say that ultra-low interest rates have had no impact on home prices and new construction?

I usually ignore your simplistic and asinine rants, but this just stood out as so blatantly false and ignorant I had to reply.

by Anonymousreply 4807/01/2013

[quote]Too stupid to know how stupid she is.

ROFL.... Right back at you, snookums. How's your track record these days? Still think that gold couldn't possibly be in a bubble and that it's going to climb to $20,000 an ounce?

[quote]Are you really trying to say that ultra-low interest rates have had no impact on home prices and new construction?

No, dear, I'm not, which is why I didn't say that. You really should actually learn to comprehend what I read. These conversations would go ever so much better than when you listen to those voices in your head or just make shit up.

[quote]I usually ignore your simplistic and asinine rants

ROFL.... No, dear, you don't, because you can't help yourself, which is just one of the reasons I love your posts.

[quote]but this just stood out as so blatantly false and ignorant I had to reply.

Whatever you say, dear. Conspicuously absent, as usual, is any actual data, evidence, logic, or reason, but that's pretty much what we've come to expect from you.

Tell us again about 50% hyperinflation, how the economy's worse now than it was in 2008, how gold is just the best investment ever, how cutting back government spending is going to fix the economy, how the dollar is going to crash, how bond rates are going to go through the roof, and how the economy is on the very of toal collapse, any day now, really, this time for sure.

Now what was that about someone being "too stupid to know how stupid [they are]?"

by Anonymousreply 4907/01/2013

And interest rates are still going up.

by Anonymousreply 5007/02/2013

And Libertarians are still idiots.

by Anonymousreply 5107/02/2013

R51, when interest rates reach late 1970s-early80s levels, please come back and explain why ROTHBARDIAN libertarians were the ONLY people who predicted, and apologize for your ignorance.

by Anonymousreply 5207/02/2013

[quote]when interest rates reach late 1970s-early80s levels, please come back and explain why ROTHBARDIAN libertarians were the ONLY people who predicted, and apologize for your ignorance.

ROFL.... They won't, dear. And when they don't, just as is the case for all of your predictions, will you "apologize for your ignorance?"

Yeah, I didn't think so.

by Anonymousreply 5307/02/2013

R53-

Why won't they?

Volker had to raise them to 20% (on the overnight interbank level) to stop inflation.

Why do you think Bernanke can get out of this box without destroying either (A the currency by hyperinflating, or B) raising the Fed Funds rate to 30-50%.

-/-/--/-/

Interest rates soared. While the 3-month Treasury Bill was climbing from 8% in September of '79 to 12.5% by year end, the Fed wasn't counting on long-term rates rising as well, from the 9.2% level in September to 10.1% by December 31st. [In most normal environments, as the Fed is increasing short interest rates (the only thing they can influence directly), the longer end of the yield curve responds positively. Since the longer end represents "inflation expectations," by raising short rates you would expect to eventually slow the economy and dampen inflation fears. Thus, the premium that investors demand for buying longer-term instruments should narrow, not widen.]

Into early 1980 interest rates across the board continued to rise and the economy tipped into recession (a mild one but an important one as far as the presidential election of 1980 was concerned). By the end of the first quarter, the long bond was yielding 12.3%. Treasury Bills were to peak that year in the second quarter, 15.6%. The inflation rate for the first quarter of 1980, as measured by the CPI was 14.6%.

Awful news. But what we didn't know at the time, as is often the case during events such as these, was that the back of inflation had been broken. By the middle of 1981, it was running at a 9.7% clip and for the year it was below 9%. Volcker was winning.

But the times were tough on the chairman. Henry Kaufman went to visit him in 1980 and he observed that construction bricks were filling an outer office, yet no renovation appeared to be taking place. It turns out that the Brick Layers Union had sent them over, along with a note saying that they were no longer needed. A rather vicious reminder of the troubled economic environment.

1980 was a miserable year for President Carter as well. Inflation, unbelievably high interest rates, a desultory stock market, and the Iranian hostage crisis. Carter went against the policy of the Fed and instituted his own policy of "special credit controls" whereby special requirements were placed on the reserves of banks and credit card companies. Volcker sat by, not wanting to be seen playing politics. Like the price controls of President Nixon, the credit controls worked for a spell and rates declined, only to soar anew.

Reagan won the election that November and, as soon as the votes were tabulated, Volcker began to tighten interest rates more. The federal funds rate, which had averaged 11.2% in 1979, peaked at 20% in June 1981. The prime rate rose to 21.5% in '81 as well. Treasury Bills hit 17.3% and the long-term bond was on its way to 15.3%.

Upon taking office, Ronald Reagan said that the country faced the threat of economic calamity. But many would say his preferred policies of tax cuts would encourage spending and investment and thus hamper Volcker's effort to kill inflation, once and for all.

by Anonymousreply 5407/03/2013

Info & link for r54

by Anonymousreply 5507/03/2013

[quote]Why won't they?

Because the current economic conditions preclude such a scenario. This isn't rocket science. The double- and triple-digit hyper-inflation that you have predicting for years has not happened and will not happen, absent a change in those conditions. Were your economic theories correct, we would already be seeing that hyperinflation. Ron Paul insisted in 2011 that we would see 50% inflation by 2013.

Like his predictions over the past 30 years, he was wrong, just as all of your predictions have been wrong. It's the same root cause in both cases: the economic religion you are following is bogus.

[quote]Volker had to raise them to 20% (on the overnight interbank level) to stop inflation.

And if the current economic conditions were similar in any way to the situation then, you might have a point. They aren't and you don't.

by Anonymousreply 5607/04/2013

R56-

This is the most coherent post you've made in years.

I'll dignify it with a response.

[Quote]Because the current economic conditions preclude such a scenario.

Why? Extrapolating future conditions from the past is specifically frowned on by expert economists.

It's starting to look more like the 70s PLUS the 30s- collapsing wages (un/underemployment) and rising prices and no new lending. Full time employment is at lows last seen in the 70s, and part time employment is at record highs.

[Quote]This isn't rocket science. The double- and triple-digit hyper-inflation that you have predicting for years has not happened and will not happen, absent a change in those conditions.

What conditions, specifically?

The money - trillions of it- used to bail out the banks has already been "printed", but emergency measures (never before used, created ad hoc, and therefore useless for extrapolating any economic problems or solutions in the future) like paying banks interest on those excess reserves keeps it (currently) from the consumer sector and keeps it from driving price increases. The current 8% inflation is a result of the depreciation of current money, and does not count this "sideline" money.

ShadowStats.com shows how price inflation was derived 32years ago before Bush1 changed it, and reflects reality far better. MIT has the Billion Price Project as an alternative to government approved prices, and it also shows inflation acceleration.

Over US$3Trillion of that money is on the books of the Federal Reserve - another ahistorical and unique event- and as bonds fall (aka rising interest rates) that money will eventually enter the system. When it does the effects will be VERY noticeable.

[Quote]Were your economic theories correct, we would already be seeing that hyperinflation.

No, the drastic and ahistorical measures taken by the Federal Reserve have held this PRICE inflation at bay. The hyperinflation (which is an increase in the money supply) has already happened. The only thing stopping retail prices from rising are the ahistorical efforts of the Federal Reserve to keep these "reserves" out of the system.

[Quote] Ron Paul insisted in 2011 that we would see 50% inflation by 2013.

We're only half way there. He said that IF that high powered money hit the system then hyperinflation would happen. So far the Federal Reserve has been able to "talk the markets off the ledge" by QEINFINITY.

Look at how the market reacted at the mere suggestion that QEinfinity might "taper"- the whole thing fell apart. Stocks dropped, interest rates rose- not a pretty economic sight.

Try to buy gold at ~$1400/oz. They will laugh at you. The dealers know that the COMEX price is bullshit, based in paper promises.

by Anonymousreply 5707/06/2013

Goddamn ipad. Why does [quote] only work when it ISN'T CAPITALIZED!

by Anonymousreply 5807/06/2013

In June, the household survey reported that part-time jobs soared by 360,000 to 28,059,000 - an all time record high. Full time jobs? Down 240,000. And looking back at the entire year, so far in 2013, just 130K Full-Time Jobs have been added, offset by a whopping 557K Part-Time jobs. And there is your jobs "quality" leading to today's market euphoria (if only for now).

by Anonymousreply 5907/06/2013

As long as the mortgage interest deduction is still in effect you are simply quibbling about how big you MicroMansions are.

by Anonymousreply 6007/06/2013

R60-

If interest rates go to 1980 levels (and the deduction stays) then the majority of homeowners will owe zero tax.

When the interest payment on UST debt is already $.2T at virtually ZERO interest, a rise to 8% would mean almost 75% of taxes just to pay interest.

It's simple math.

by Anonymousreply 6107/06/2013

R34, I actually agree with your point of view. But I've noticed your very distinctive style of argument on other threads. You know, the one where you "dissect" your opponent's argument sentence-by-sentence, only you don't actually say anything or offer any real counter-argument? Instead, it's all "ROTL"-this and "Dear heart"-that?

I just wanted you to know that you really sound like an idiot.

I don't think you *are* an idiot, but you do yourself a real disservice because you truly come across as one.

I'm trying to help you by letting you know because at the moment, when I come across you on any thread, I have started to roll my eyes and read past whatever you write.

by Anonymousreply 6207/06/2013

I do too, R62

The first dozen or so times I interacted with the Troll, despite my instincts. I'm glad I'm not alone.

R62

Most people can see that the Federal Reserve injecting tens of trillions of US tax (backed) money into foreign AND domestic banks is a disaster waiting to happen.

Please look at lewrockwell.com for a few days, read some articles and think.

Our government has failed. It is there for the big boys, screw the little guys. It is getting worse.

Good luck.

by Anonymousreply 6307/06/2013

R62-

Please investigate the info about how any tiny increase in interest rates will affect the US economy. That's why they are scared.

by Anonymousreply 6407/06/2013

[quote]Why? Extrapolating future conditions from the past is specifically frowned on by expert economists.

You do realize that this statement is total bullshit, right? In fact, the precise opposite is true out here in reality. Expert economists always learn from the past. Those who don't aren't "expert."

[quote]No, the drastic and ahistorical measures taken by the Federal Reserve have held this PRICE inflation at bay.

Funny how you had to make up this bit of drivel to explain away the continuing failure of your predictions to come true. Not only are the "drastic and ahistorical measures" neither "drastic" nor "ahistorical," but you can't even come up with a cogent explanation, much less one supported by data, as to why these measures are having the impact you claim!

[quote]The hyperinflation (which is an increase in the money supply) has already happened.

Only Austrian idiots have to have a "special," and essentially meaningless, definition of "hyperinflation." Meanwhile, out here in the real world, no such hyperinflation has taken place, nor will it.

[quote]We're only half way there.

Nope, he said specifically by now. His prediction was wrong, just as all your predictions have been wrong.

[quote]Try to buy gold at ~$1400/oz. They will laugh at you. The dealers know that the COMEX price is bullshit, based in paper promises.

ROFL.... Is that how you're trying to convince yourself that the gold bubble hasn't popped?

by Anonymousreply 6507/07/2013

[quote]I just wanted you to know that you really sound like an idiot.

Thank you. I'll be sure to give your advice all of the attention it warrants.

[quote]I don't think you *are* an idiot, but you do yourself a real disservice because you truly come across as one.

I engage in this style when I'm mocking a troll or idiot. I don't intend my posts to be taken seriously and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Serious posters with serious arguments I take seriously and respond accordingly. Morons like the OP I laugh at and mock.

This thread is a classic example. The OP has taken one isolated bit of data and extrapolated a whole host of doomsday scenarios from it, none of which will come true and none of which the OP will ever acknowledge were wrong, just as he has never acknowledged his many factual errors and blown predictions in the past.

[quote]I have started to roll my eyes and read past whatever you write.

Please feel free to continue to do so.

by Anonymousreply 6607/07/2013

[quote]Most people can see that the Federal Reserve injecting tens of trillions of US tax (backed) money into foreign AND domestic banks is a disaster waiting to happen.

Unless, of course, you happen to have some relatively minor knowledge of history and economics and realize that the Fed has done this dozens of times in the past and the only difference this time is the scale, which was warranted by the severity of the problem.

[quote]Please look at lewrockwell.com for a few days, read some articles and think.

And laugh at the unsupported silliness of most of the arguments.

by Anonymousreply 6707/07/2013

Perhaps banks should have never been allowed to give mortgages to people who couldn't afford them in the first place. People can't be allowed to live beyond their means.

by Anonymousreply 6807/07/2013

5 Year Gold price chart

Looks like it's returning to the $800 pre recession price, fast.

by Anonymousreply 6907/07/2013

Looks like silver is going back to the base $5-10/oz range.

by Anonymousreply 7007/07/2013

Correct, R69. Now compare the reality of gold prices over the past couple of years to the confident statements the OP made that are quoted in R17. Every single one of those statements is false, and was false when he made them, most of them rather stupidly so, and yet the OP has never acknowledged his errors. Even today, he's doubling down and pretending that the real issue is that the published gold prices are wrong rather than acknowledging the reality that gold was in a bubble and that bubble has now popped.

And people wonder why I never take him seriously or try to have a real discussion with him.

by Anonymousreply 7107/07/2013

R71-

Please stop at a "CASH4GOLD" store and offer them $1400 for an ounce of gold. They will laugh in your face.

The "paper" price and "physical" price diverged months ago.

The paper price is determined by paper contracts, and the same gold can be sold to 10 different people. Actual physical gold is selling for much more, and the delivery times are over 100 days.

by Anonymousreply 7207/07/2013

My mortgage interest rate in 1987 was at least 8%.

by Anonymousreply 7307/07/2013

R73-

Look at rates in the early 80s- 8% would have been a fantasy.

by Anonymousreply 7407/07/2013

r74, you remind me that I RE-financed (for $3000) in about 1994 to GET that 8 (or maybe it was 9) per cent.

by Anonymousreply 7507/07/2013

This chart from FREDDIEMAC is scary.

16.6% interest in 1981 was scary. 10% in 2013 would crush the market.

by Anonymousreply 7607/07/2013

[quote]Please stop at a "CASH4GOLD" store and offer them $1400 for an ounce of gold. They will laugh in your face.

I did; they didn't. Next?

[quote]The "paper" price and "physical" price diverged months ago.

Q.E.D. When facts get in your way, go for the fantasies. Note that the idiot still hasn't acknowledged the complete failure of his predictions and statements quoted in R17.

by Anonymousreply 7707/08/2013

After what is going to happen happens, they'll still be arguing .. whuu-uu-t happened!?

Don't mess with Mother Nature is what happened.

by Anonymousreply 7807/08/2013

You mean when the economic Armageddon and total meltdown they've been predicting doesn't happen? Nah, that's the beauty of being a paranoid loon. You just make up some lame excuses and move your meltdown date out a few years. You never have to admit you were wrong!

by Anonymousreply 7907/08/2013

[quote]I engage in this style when I'm mocking a troll or idiot. I don't intend my posts to be taken seriously and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Serious posters with serious arguments I take seriously and respond accordingly. Morons like the OP I laugh at and mock.

So... in order to make the person you are arguing against look stupid, you are purposely and willfully making yourself look stupid?

That doesn't make very much sense to me.

Besides, the person you're debating doesn't actually come across like a troll in the slightest. Not even one scintilla does he seem like a troll. He seems like a person who has an opposite point of view from yours. He hasn't trolled you once. But you've been trolling him non-stop.

So who is he the troll again?

Stop embarrassing yourself already. You're clearly trying to convince someone of something. Your wit, perhaps? I have no idea but whatever your purpose, unless it is to make yourself seem like a foolish thirteen year old girl who just discovered the internet, you're failing at it quite spectacularly.

by Anonymousreply 8007/08/2013

[quote]Besides, the person you're debating doesn't actually come across like a troll in the slightest. Not even one scintilla does he seem like a troll. He seems like a person who has an opposite point of view from yours. He hasn't trolled you once. But you've been trolling him non-stop.

Follow R76's posts on this thread one more time, follow the brand new posts he's put on DL today, and try to say that again with a straight face.

He bulk-posts Libertarian agitprop, then responds to his own threads incessantly. He bumps his old threads from 1-2 years ago. On any thread that he posts, he's posted 2/3rds of the comments. If that's not the definition of a troll, then the definition is useless.

by Anonymousreply 8107/08/2013

I'm not R76 and I wouldn't criticize you if I had not read every interaction between the two of you on this thread.

Again, I do not agree with him, and yes, he is serving up tinhattish links from questionable sources. But he's winning this argument hands down because he is the only adult participating in the discussion.

Like I said, you do this ALL THE TIME. You're one of the very few immediately identifiable anonymous posters here because of how frequently you behave like this. I didn't even think it was possible to be embarrassed for an anonymous poster on an anonymous message board but when I read your responses, I truly cringe for you.

You really need to try a new tactic if your goal is to be provocative and not ... well, pathetic.

by Anonymousreply 8207/08/2013

R80, can't be serious. It isn't an opposite point of view, it's just wrong. I find R81 in all hos/her posts does this site a great service, because the retorts are at least witty.

My only hope is you don't actually believe any of this Libertarian stuff and waste your money on gold. That would be embarrassing.

by Anonymousreply 8307/08/2013

[quote]But he's winning this argument hands down because he is the only adult participating in the discussion.

Honey, get off the cross, we need the wood.

He's a spammer with clinically insane views on economics and politics.

If you're really not R76 functioning as a sock puppet, and you truly think he's "winning the argument", some concrete examples of his "winning the argument" would be informative/amusing.

by Anonymousreply 8407/08/2013

[quote]So... in order to make the person you are arguing against look stupid, you are purposely and willfully making yourself look stupid?

Nope, I'm mocking a moron who has made it quite clear that he's not interested in reality and not interested in any serious discussion. His posts don't require debunking because a) they're really stupid and b) he never provides any data to back up the points he tries to make. This thread is a classic example.

[quote]Besides, the person you're debating doesn't actually come across like a troll in the slightest. Not even one scintilla does he seem like a troll.

ROFL.... No comment needed.

[quote]He seems like a person who has an opposite point of view from yours. He hasn't trolled you once.

Moron, he's been trolling this forum for years, repeatedly spamming it.

[quote]So who is he the troll again?

The libertarian/anarchist/gun nut/Ron Paul devotee/gold bug/anti-Fed/conspiracy theorist. This isn't rocket science.

[quote]Stop embarrassing yourself already.

I'll be sure to give that advice all of the attention it deserves.

[quote]You're clearly trying to convince someone of something.

Not even remotely but thanks for playing. We have some lovely consolation prizes for you. I'm having fun mocking a moron, nothing more.

by Anonymousreply 8507/10/2013

[quote]But he's winning this argument hands down because he is the only adult participating in the discussion.

ROFL.... If that's what you call "adult," I'd hate to live in your world. And no, he's not "winning." He gets his ass handed to him every time because he simply doesn't know what he's talking about. See the tidbits quoted in R17 as classic examples.

[quote]but when I read your responses, I truly cringe for you.

*Shrug* So stop reading them. I won't lose any sleep.

[quote]You really need to try a new tactic if your goal is to be provocative and not ... well, pathetic.

Like I said, I'll be sure to give your advice all of the attention it deserves, particularly from someone who considers our libertarian troll to be an "adult" who's "winning this argument hands down." Talk about delusional!

by Anonymousreply 8607/10/2013

An example from our "adult" chum who is "winning this argument hands down:"

I hope that anyone reading this has ---

A) enough silver nickels, dimes and quarters to escape any large city.

B) an escape plan from that city, and has set "google alerts" so they can get out before the rest of their neighbors start to panic.

C) called and prepped close family in the countryside, and given them money so they will take you in once the dollar dies.

Yes, I know I will get mocked for posting this, but the world financial system has already died, and the current spasms are just warning symptoms.

[The light has dawned... how could I not be convinced by the wisdom of this "adult" poster? Sign me up! I'm putting all of my cash into gold right now!]

by Anonymousreply 8707/10/2013

Would everyone please stop poking the troll R85-87?

Although I doubt that he has been really "poked" in a long time.

Thank you

by Anonymousreply 8807/10/2013

R82/84-

You're my new fave.

When I point out posts by R85/86/87 ( and the dozens of posts earlier in the thread) I try to avoid calling her psychotic or mentally disabled.

Thank you for doing so for me.

Take a trip to economicpolicyjournal.com and see if I'm "insane" or "tin-hat".

It seems that most people are starting to see the danger of allowing the government---

A) unlimited spying powers,

B) the power to kill anyone via drone,

C) and printing of trillions to bail out the big banks.

Thanks!

by Anonymousreply 8907/10/2013

I want R84 to come back!!!

by Anonymousreply 9007/10/2013

I wish interest rates would go up, this piddling .75% is killing my savings account.

by Anonymousreply 9107/10/2013

R91-

Even if they slowly raise the FedFunds overnight rate...

the stock market will crash

the TRILLIONS "sequestered" at the Federal Reserve will come flying out (thus raising interest rates dramatically)

food/energy prices will skyrocket.

So, quit being selfish and die like a good soldier. You are old and therefore useless to the USGOV. If you are black you need to die tonight.

We MUST have you old people (anyone over 50) die quickly or the burden on the magical and wonderful Social Security and MediCare system will bankrupt our immaculate government.

Please think of the children!!! Unless you kill yourself, they will never be able to collect Social Security or MediCare!

by Anonymousreply 9207/10/2013

[quote]When I point out posts by [R85]/86/87 ( and the dozens of posts earlier in the thread) I try to avoid calling her psychotic or mentally disabled.

No, actually, you don't. You've basically called me every name in the book, including psychotic, mentally disabled, and pretty much everything else you can think of, all to my immense amusement, since you're doing so because you can't address the points I make.

[quote]Take a trip to economicpolicyjournal.com and see if I'm "insane" or "tin-hat".

I did; you are. Next?

by Anonymousreply 9307/10/2013

[quote]Even if they slowly raise the FedFunds overnight rate... the stock market will crash

Really? They've done it dozens of times in the past, all with some success. I'm just dying to see the data that show why they can't do it this time. Oh, wait... you don't have any. Oh, well....

[quote]the TRILLIONS "sequestered" at the Federal Reserve will come flying out (thus raising interest rates dramatically)

Um, no, they won't, because the people running the Fed aren't as dumb as you have shown yourself to be.

[quote]food/energy prices will skyrocket.

So you've been claiming over and over and over and over and over and over and over again for years. It *still* hasn't happened. And it won't, not under these economic conditions.

[quote]So, quit being selfish and die like a good soldier.

I'll pass, thanks.

[quote]We MUST have you old people (anyone over 50) die quickly or the burden on the magical and wonderful Social Security and MediCare system will bankrupt our immaculate government.

Social Security is fine, thanks. And Medicare is cheaper and it controls costs better and it's more popular than the private alternatives. Did you have a point to make?

[quote]Please think of the children!!! Unless you kill yourself, they will never be able to collect Social Security or MediCare!

The worst-case scenario, which nobody really expects, has Social Security paying out at 75% of the benefit level into perpetuity. You never can bring yourself to acknowledge that fact, can you?

by Anonymousreply 9407/10/2013

[quote] he is the only adult participating in the discussion.

The adults are the ones who remember when interest rates were far higher and nothing catastrophic happened.

by Anonymousreply 9507/11/2013

[quote]I want [R84] to come back!!!

I'm still here cupcake, and you're still dumber than a box of hammers.

by Anonymousreply 9607/11/2013

Everything was fine when you saved at 3% and borrowed at 6%. Do not fuck with Mother Nature.

by Anonymousreply 9807/12/2013

[quote]The average rate for the 30-year fixed-rate mortgage rose to 4.51% in the week ending July 11 - reaching the highest rate since July 2011,Freddie Mac said today in its weekly report.

And it's still at a historically low level, below where economists and financial advisers expect it to end up.

[quote]If you haven't locked in your mortgage rate with a long-term fixed rate mortgage, do so now.

Wow.... For the first time in the half dozen or so years I've been reading your drivel, you actually posted some financial advice that makes sense! Bravo!

by Anonymousreply 9907/12/2013

[quote]Isn't it strange- the only people who called for a housing price meltdown were the Austrian- libertarians?

Isn't it exhausting making shit up that bears absolutely no connection to reality?

by Anonymousreply 10107/12/2013

[quote]If you had listened to me prior to the housing meltdown it would be even better.

*Shrug* That one was bloody obvious. *Everyone* knew that there was a housing bubble and that it was going to pop. Well, everyone but Alan Greenspan.

[quote]Isn't it strange- the only people who called for a housing price meltdown were the Austrian- libertarians?

As R101 notes, you're lying, and stupidly so, since there were many articles on the housing bubble, Keynesians like Paul Krugman commented on it, many bloggers commented on it, and so on. Moreover, economists in the Austrian school are *always* predicting crashes, just as they have been for the past several years. Like the stopped clock that's right twice a day, occasionally their gloom-and-doom predictions are correct, just not for the right reasons.

Oh, and for the record, I bought well before the housing bubble got going, and refinanced when the rates were at their lowest, so I'm doing just fine, thanks. How's that gold bubble doing for you?

by Anonymousreply 10207/13/2013

[quote]The 30 yr fixed is up to 4.5% and rising.

Actually, bankrate.com says it's down a bit from last week, plateauing, just as we predicted.

[quote]Once the UST rolls over all their long term (10-30 yr) paper and has to refinance on short term...it's gonna be epic.

So you've been saying for years. And you've been wrong for years, just as you'll be wrong this time. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

[quote]In layman's terms- the US Government is "refinancing" each month, rolling long term debt into shorter term to keep interest rates low, and they are running out of long term debt. Once it's gone, interst rates on the 16 FUCKING TRILLION dollar deficit will skyrocket.

So you've been saying for years. And you've been wrong for years, just as you'll be wrong this time. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

[quote]It's like Greece on steroids, just delayed by a few years.

ROFL.... Uh-huh. Tell us again how gold is going to climb to $20,000 an ounce and we're going to see 50% hyperinflation!

by Anonymousreply 10407/17/2013

Interest rates are at a lifetime low. This is not good for anyone except a homebuyer.

by Anonymousreply 10607/18/2013

gold has dropped 50% in a year - from 1800 and oz. to 1300.

by Anonymousreply 10807/18/2013

more late night drunken thread bumping...

by Anonymousreply 11007/18/2013

[bold]NOW[/bold] it all makes sense.

The Libertarian Idiot Spamming Goldbug Troll(TM) owns a CASH4GOLD shop.

I knew those places were a little...off.

by Anonymousreply 11107/18/2013

[quote]Listen to The Bernank's testimony. He's scared shitless because be knows he fucked up.

I did, and you're wrong about his testimony, which is why you can't actually point to anything he said that even remotely resembles someone who is "scared shitless."

[quote]They WERE at a lifetime low. They are up nearly 50% in 6 weeks.

*Shrug* And they're plateauing, just as predicted, and still below what economists have said is the natural level for such rates.

[quote]Strange- the rates I get at the bank for my savings are still low...could that mean trouble?

Nope, it just means that banks are doing what you would expect from private enterprise: squeezing every penny of profit out of their operations.

[quote]I am glad I'm not depositing it but buying gold- physical, hold in my hand and keep in my safe- since it is going higher.

ROFL.... The bubble has popped, gold is down 1/3 from its peak, and you're still pretending that it's a fabulous investment. I wonder what the weather is like in your fantasy world?

[quote]PAPER gold has dropped.

So has "physical gold."

[quote]Physical gold...not so much.

Nope, sorry, but you're wrong, as usual.

[quote]Try to buy a coin at a "CASH4GOLD" shop. They will laugh at you.

So would I, actually, since you'd be really, really stupid to do that. Oh, wait... I forgot who I was talking to.

[quote]It's still up 500% in ten years.

That's what happens in a bubble, moron, at least until the bubble pops. You still can't bring yourself to admit that you were dead wrong, can you?

by Anonymousreply 11207/18/2013

Thank you for pwning him, r112.

by Anonymousreply 11307/18/2013

R113-

That's pwnation?

Please, pull one fact from R112s reply. Just one.

by Anonymousreply 11407/19/2013

Did the Libertarians ever figure out who wrote those Ron Paul newsletters?

Maybe they should master a simple newsletter before they try their hand at economics.

by Anonymousreply 11507/19/2013

I love R112

I want everyone to re-read her rantings. No info, no facts, just "nanananannahhh...bullshit"

Now, when interest rates go higher over the next few months, and gold (since the central banks have sold all the gold they have, and now are paying to lease it back...oh, wait, R112 doesn't understand GOFO rates and COMEX exchange problems----then I should listen to her rant) begins to ascend again, and inflation picks up I will bump this thread.

I urge, beg, PLEAD with the people that read this to look at 3 things-

Google "GOFO" and try to understand the mechanical and underlying premise.

Google COMEX and try to understand why it is important to gold and silver prices. If I tell you and ten of your friends that you "own" my house, that's wrong, but since you believe me it's all cool. Once all ten of you try to take possession of my house and find that I've moved it to China...there is gonna be HELL TO PAY.

Try to buy a gold coin at a local store. Just ask. Go in with the Spot Price on a printout, and say you want a single coin. When they laugh at you, try not to cry.

Now, after doing these three things, re-read R112 and try not to laugh at her.

by Anonymousreply 11607/19/2013

A search of "GOFO" turns up...surprise!...hundreds of Libertarian/Goldbug websites. Thanks, but no thanks.

And it would help your arguments if you'd get out of the stupid misogynist habit of referring to gay men you're feebly attempting to put down as "her".

Not going to respond to your economic "information" until you translate it into English.

by Anonymousreply 11707/19/2013

R117-

I simply assumed you were female.

Of course sites discussing GOFO are going to be discussing gold...it's a gold term.

Look at wiki you moron.

by Anonymousreply 11807/19/2013

[quote]Not going to respond to your economic "information" until you translate it into English.

So, your ignorance is my fault?

You say "gold is Bulshit" and post moronic justifications, and I try to educate you and you demand that I "dumb it down" enough for someone like you?

Fucking idiot.

by Anonymousreply 11907/19/2013

[quote]Please, pull one fact from R112s reply. Just one

LOL... Please pull one fact from anything you've stated on this thread, moron! But hey, here you go:

Fact one: Bernanke wasn't "scared shitless" and you have not been able to find even a single quote that supports that silly statement.

Fact two: Mortgage rates appear to be plateauing and they are still below what economists regard as the natural level (a little above 5%).

Fact three: Banks love to set loan rates higher and savings rate lower. They make more money that way.

Fact four: Gold was in a bubble and the bubble has popped. Gold, including "physical gold," is down 1/3 from its peak.

Now contrast that with the posts I was replying to. Not a single verifiable fact in anything you wrote.

by Anonymousreply 12007/19/2013

[quote]I want everyone to re-read her rantings.

So do I, actually.

[quote]No info, no facts, just nnanananannahhh...bullshit"

Now look at the posts I was replying to. No info, no facts, just mindless assertions without any data or evidence. Why on earth should I be held to a higher standard than you hold yourself to? And, of course, my post has the advantage that everything I wrote was actually true. Yours? Not so much.

[quote]Now, when interest rates go higher over the next few months, and gold (since the central banks have sold all the gold they have, and now are paying to lease it back...oh, wait, R112 doesn't understand GOFO rates and COMEX exchange problems----then I should listen to her rant) begins to ascend again, and inflation picks up I will bump this thread.

No, you won't, but I will. And we'll be waiting here, laughing at you, for once again being totally wrong, as you've been totally wrong for the past half dozen years at least. Not a single one of your predictions has come true. None.

[quote]Now, after doing these three things, re-read R112 and try not to laugh at her.

ROFL.... Wow.... Talk about denial! You *still* can't bring yourself to admit that gold was in a bubble and the bubble has popped!

[quote]I simply assumed you were female.

No, you didn't. You're using that as a rather pathetic attempt at belittling those who disagree with you, which reveals a lot about you.

by Anonymousreply 12107/19/2013

Word, r121!

by Anonymousreply 12207/19/2013

Yup, R122.

by Anonymousreply 12307/19/2013

[quote]So, your ignorance is my fault?

More accurately: your ignorance is our pain.

by Anonymousreply 12407/19/2013

Just do what I do, R124, and treat it as comedy. The combination of childishness, arrogance, and ignorance is really priceless.

by Anonymousreply 12507/19/2013

You're right, R125

Your ignorance, childishness and arrogance totally falls in line with all government apologists.

If the data don't fit what they want...well, change the parameters.

If inflation is too low, then change how it's measured.

If unemployment is too high, then only measure subset k6-f and hope the sheeple don't notice.

If the government is lying then change the truth.

People that suck the dick of the government make me sick.

by Anonymousreply 12607/19/2013

[quote]Your ignorance, childishness and arrogance totally falls in line with all government apologists.

LOL.... Got your ass handed to you again, didn't you? You have no answer for anything I've written, particularly R120 and R121. Since you don't, all you have is your usual childish insults. Funny as hell, though.

[quote]People that suck the dick of the government make me sick.

As soon as we find someone like that, we'll be sure to hide him from your tender sentiments. Heaven forfend that we should cause you any anguish.

by Anonymousreply 12707/19/2013

R127

Once again you don't refute, just bitch that it doesn't fit your tiny world.

Please find specific detailed rebuttals or shut up you freak!

by Anonymousreply 12807/20/2013

[quote]Once again you don't refute, just bitch that it doesn't fit your tiny world.

ROFL.... I repeat: Now look at the posts I was replying to. No info, no facts, just mindless assertions without any data or evidence. Why should I be held to a higher standard than you hold yourself?

Feel free to come back when you're ready to deal with what I wrote in R120. It hasn't escaped anyone's notice that you went into full attack mode rather than deal with the facts.

[quote]Please find specific detailed rebuttals or shut up you freak!

Nope. When you provide some real data and demonstrate that you're prepared to have a serious debate, actually reading what I write and responding to it instead of some imaginary dialog that exists solely in your own fevered imagination, I'll be right here. Until then, I'll just continue laughing at you.

by Anonymousreply 12907/20/2013

R129-

Where are your facts? Up your loose ass?

by Anonymousreply 13007/21/2013

Right back at you, sweetheart. Still don't have an answer for R120, do you?

by Anonymousreply 13107/21/2013

People really need to start paying cash for their homes. ...save up, buy a 1 bedroom rather than the 4 that you think you need.

by Anonymousreply 13207/21/2013

R120

[quote]Fact one: Bernanke wasn't "scared shitless" and you have not been able to find even a single quote that supports that silly statement.

Did you watch the last Federal Reserve grilling by congress? He said he had no idea why housing collapsed or why gold went up. [quote]Fact two: Mortgage rates appear to be plateauing and they are still below what economists regard as the natural level.

Why are housing rates 50% higher than they were two months ago? Why are they going higher?

[quote]Fact three: Banks love to set loan rates higher and savings rate lower. They make more money that way.

They are driven by Federal Reserve rates at the margin. The fact that you don't understand this shows how ignorant you really are when it comes to economics.

[quote]Fact four: Gold was in a bubble and the bubble has popped. Gold, including "physical gold," is down 1/3 from its peak

No, the fact that Western Governments have sold gold to suppress the price is relevant. Most of the drop in gold price comes from PAPER GOLD, not actual physical gold.

You are too ignorant to debate.

[quote]

by Anonymousreply 13307/21/2013

[quote]Did you watch the last Federal Reserve grilling by congress? He said he had no idea why housing collapsed or why gold went up.

Sigh.... No, he didn't, which is why you don't quote him and won't provide context. And that still doesn't do anything to back up your claim that he was "scared shitless," which you can't back up because he isn't. Strike one.

[quote]Why are housing rates 50% higher than they were two months ago?

Sigh.... Because idiots panicked about Bernanke's comments and because the rates are returning to their natural level, just as predicted. Did you really think they were going to remain at historically low levels?

[quote]Why are they going higher?

They're not. They're down slightly, plateauing, just as I predicted. Strike two.

[quote]They are driven by Federal Reserve rates at the margin. The fact that you don't understand this shows how ignorant you really are when it comes to economics.

ROFL.... In a word: no. Individual bank rates are not even remotely "driven by Federal Reserve rates at the margin." The Federal Reseve clearly has an impact on overall rates, both for loans and for saving, but they don't exercise the kind of fine control that you are claiming. The fact that you had to make shit up like this shows how ignorant you really are when it comes to economics. Strike three.

[quote]No, the fact that Western Governments have sold gold to suppress the price is relevant.

Sadly for you, that isn't what's happening, which is why you cannot actually cite any statistics that support that silly statement. And yes, I've read the desperate articles on zerohedge.com trying in vain to prop up the price of gold. Gold was in a bubble; the bubble has popped; deal with it. Strike four.

[quote]Most of the drop in gold price comes from PAPER GOLD, not actual physical gold.

Nope, sorry. The price of "physical gold" has also dropped by nearly one-third, just as "PAPER GOLD" did. Strike five.

Note the complete lack of data, the mindless repeating of assertions contradicted by all of the available evidence, the pathetic and childish attacks. Strike six and he's out. Q.E.D.

by Anonymousreply 13407/22/2013

[quote]Sigh.... Because idiots panicked about Bernanke's comments and because the rates are returning to their natural level, just as predicted. Did you really think they were going to remain at historically low levels?

No, they didn't panic. They realize that as soon as the Federal Reserve quits buying $85B/mo in MBS and UST that the market will tank. That's not panic...it's just rational behavior.

by Anonymousreply 13507/22/2013

Interest rates over the last 2 months.

They are up nearly 20% and mortgage apps are down nearly 20%.

by Anonymousreply 13607/22/2013

And yet ING (Cap One) is still paying the same on their CD's as they were on 10/10/12. Go figure.

by Anonymousreply 13707/22/2013

[quote]ROFL.... In a word: no. Individual bank rates are not even remotely "driven by Federal Reserve rates at the margin." The Federal Reseve clearly has an impact on overall rates, both for loans and for saving, but they don't exercise the kind of fine control that you are claiming. The fact that you had to make shit up like this shows how ignorant you really are when it comes to economics. Strike three.

So why are overnight lending rates still .25%?

Are you too stupid to see that the combination of a .25% overnight rate and $85B/mo in MBS and Treasury purchases is what is keeping rates lower than what a "normal" market would allow.

Do you realize that if the market "normalized" and interest rates for USTs went to 5% and mortgage went to 10% that the entire country would collapse?

by Anonymousreply 13807/22/2013

Finally-

Has anyone tried to buy gold at a local store lately?

They are NOT selling.

by Anonymousreply 13907/22/2013

R137-

ING, GS, BoA, CITI, etc. control the Federal Reserve.

Please read the link. It will explain the nature of the Federal Reserve and why we need to abolish it.

FYI- it is a technical discussion but nothing an educated person cannot understand with some work.

Taking the RED PILL will ruin your current view of life. If you read the link then you will begin to see the evil nature of the current system of banks and megacorporotacracy ...and how the government helps them. You might even begin to see the world through the eyes of a freeman.

by Anonymousreply 14007/22/2013

[quote]No, they didn't panic. They realize that as soon as the Federal Reserve quits buying $85B/mo in MBS and UST that the market will tank. That's not panic...it's just rational behavior.

Sigh.... Such ignorance.... Of course they panicked, because Bernanke's remarks were not well-chosen or well-timed. Bernanke isn't going to take his foot off the gas until the economy is in recovery, at which point the private sector has picked up the slack and the Fed can gradually disengage, just as it has done dozens of times in the past. None of this is rocket science; it's all there in the historical record, a record that you have never been able to bring yourself to examine.

[quote]Interest rates over the last 2 months.

Yup, and they're plateauing, just as I predicted. Thank you for confirming that I was right and you were wrong.

[quote]Do you realize that if the market "normalized" and interest rates for USTs went to 5% and mortgage went to 10% that the entire country would collapse?

Why should I "realize" something that isn't going to happen, no matter how desperate you are to finally be right for once? And why would the "entire country" "collapse" when we've endured significantly higher rates in the past and weathered the storm?

[quote]Has anyone tried to buy gold at a local store lately? They are NOT selling.

Yes I have and yes they are. Man, you *still* cannot bring yourself to admit that gold was in a bubble, a bubble that is now popping. This is record-breaking denial in action.

[quote]Please read the link. It will explain the nature of the Federal Reserve and why we need to abolish it.

I read it; I understood it; I giggled. So much unsupported utter bullshit in one article. You guys have been predicting economic Armageddon for nearly one hundred years. Does it not ever occur to wonder why your predictions never come true?

by Anonymousreply 14107/22/2013

Damn, I wish the Libertarian Idiot Troll(TM) would stop bumping his own threads over & over & over & over & OVER.

by Anonymousreply 14207/23/2013

Why?

by Anonymousreply 14307/24/2013

Because you're an ignorant, annoying twat. Got any other stupid questions?

by Anonymousreply 14407/24/2013

R144-

Please give an example. Just one. A specific item.

by Anonymousreply 14507/24/2013

There are dozens of them in this thread alone, R145. But let's start with these:

Gold coins are cheap now. At $1700+ they are a steal. Wait until the government defaults and it will be worth 10x that. Or more.

Gold will always pace or outpace inflation, when held over long periods.

Gold is much safer than any other stock or commodity.

Until the government is no longer in control of the money supply, gold will just go higher and higher.

Gold is a hedge against major inflation. Like Weimar or Argentinian level hyperinflation.

Gold is the best performing asset in the market.

Gold will keep going higher and higher until the Federal Reserve quits inflating.

Gold is still the best asset to hold compared to S&P or DJIA.

When the dollar is worth nothing, people will still want to trade gold for food, gas, etc.

That is why gold is not in a bubble. Trust me, I know more about this than you think you do.

by Anonymousreply 14607/24/2013

*crickets*

Q.E.D.

by Anonymousreply 14707/24/2013

I love you, r146-

Your blindness to the recent moves in gold, coupled with your ignorance about the reasons it is now making another bullish move higher...well, it just makes it easier to mock you.

Now explain why you think Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning are traitors. Or why you think the government is right when it spies on our email and phone and website visits. Or why allowing the Federal Reserve to print $1T/yr to bail out the banks is good for us.

I look forward to seeing how you justify these things.

by Anonymousreply 14807/25/2013

[quote]Your blindness to the recent moves in gold, coupled with your ignorance about the reasons it is now making another bullish move higher...well, it just makes it easier to mock you.

Yup, I was pretty sure that would be your response. Thank you for living up to my expectations. Every single one of those statements quoted in R146 is provably, and stupidly, false. So how do you respond? You duck the issue and proceed to attack. So predictable.

[quote]Now explain why you think Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning are traitors.

Why should I "explain" something I've never said and that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread?

[quote Or why you think the government is right when it spies on our email and phone and website visits.

Why should I "explain" something I've never said and that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread?

[quote]I look forward to seeing how you justify these things.

LOL.... Personally, I look forward to further evasions and insults, along with some really, really stupid predictions. So far, you've never let me down.

Go ahead, tell us again how "Gold will always pace or outpace inflation, when held over long periods" or how gold will climb to $20,000 an ounce or how we're going to get 50% hyperinflation or how the dollar is going to crash or how we're going to see a total economic meltdown, really, this time I mean it, any day now, seriously, stop laughing!

by Anonymousreply 14907/25/2013

And yet interest rates for USGOV debt continues to rise.

I feel sorry for you, R149-

Someone that religiously believes in something so wrong...it's just sad.

by Anonymousreply 15007/28/2013

R149-

What are your thoughts on Manning, Snowden and Assange, and the NSA spying?

by Anonymousreply 15107/28/2013

R146 - The price of good has been gong down for almost a year, and that decline accelerated over the last few months.

Gold does not earn anything, unlike stocks and bonds.

by Anonymousreply 15207/28/2013

R47, R49, R58, R77, R79,R127, R131, R141, R147 AND R149---

You have defended the spying by the NSA, the murder of innocents by drone, the destruction of civil liberties, the bailouts of the banks, the subsidies to large corporations, and the invasion of the Middle East.

I do love troll dar.

I did a "Google" search of some missing threads, and just happened to find your bullshit stink on many of them.

And yet you think "LIBERTARIANS" who hate these things are a threat to good little necocons like you.

Delicious!

by Anonymousreply 15307/28/2013

I'm just about to piss myself!

I "lost" many of the starred threads on my Thread Watcher. This has happened a few times, usually when I post something that makes the webcuntress bleed extra runny.

This time I decided that every week I would take a screen shot and then google them.

Well, during my google I discovered that our

[quote]Oh, dear

And

[quote]Dear Heart

Troll was the same stupid bitch that was defending the invasion of Iraq and Iran, supporting the subsidies to Wal Mart and ADM and Intel, defending the NSA spying, defending the Federal Reserve bailouts of the banks, defending the loss of civil liberties due to the PATRIOT ACT and encouraging the invasion of Egypt, Syria, Libya and defending Israel at every turn.

She must work for the government.

If this thread disappears...think nothing of it.

by Anonymousreply 15407/28/2013

[R154], you're doing it again: spamming your threads with the same post over and over again. That is what gets your threads deleted, not their content.

Oh, and you're lying, of course, both clumsily and stupidly, because you're getting your ass handed to you over and over again and you *really* don't like it.

by Anonymousreply 15507/28/2013

[quote]And yet interest rates for USGOV debt continues to rise.

No, actually, it doesn't, which is why you won't, and can't, post a link. The interest rates are plateauing, just as I predicted. You were wrong. Deal with it.

[quote]Someone that religiously believes in something so wrong...it's just sad.

ROFL.... There's that projection again. I couldn't have put it better, myself!

by Anonymousreply 15607/28/2013

[quote]You have defended the spying by the NSA, the murder of innocents by drone, the destruction of civil liberties, the bailouts of the banks, the subsidies to large corporations, and the invasion of the Middle East.

Nope, I haven't, which is why you didn't post a link to a single thread or quote a single post. You're lying, rather stupidly and clumsily, because you're tired of getting your ass handed to you, over and over again.

[quote]I do love troll dar.

So do I, since it shows quite clearly you're lying.

[quote]I did a "Google" search of some missing threads, and just happened to find your bullshit stink on many of them.

ROFL.... No, you didn't, but you sure are determined to pretend you did, spamming multiple threads with the same bullshit accusation. Why is that?

[quote]And yet you think "LIBERTARIANS" who hate these things are a threat to good little necocons like you.

Nope, I think you, personally and specifically, are an ignorant, paranoid (and oh so funny) loon.

by Anonymousreply 15707/28/2013

But is the data really no longer reported? Not quite. The Fed just changed the name for the data (and possibly altered its calculation slightly). The Fed is no longer reporting excess reserves, but instead is pretty much reporting the same thing as Balances maintained that exceed the top of the penalty- free band. This is a cute way for the Fed to erase the connection between pre-Bernanke excess reserves, the massive spike in reserves and the current situation. The data was reported in the old format for 54 years, that is since 1959.

You can see what the old format H.3 release was like and the long series of data, here. Notice the simple clear data with a column marked excess reserves. That data was from last week. Now take a look at the new data being put out under the same H.3 release, here. The excess reserve column is gone and replaced with Balances maintained that exceed the top of the penalty- free band. Notice that the new data point has just one data point, all the historical data about excess reserves is gone from the current release. Poof! Fifty four years of history, that show how Bernanke has created an insane excess reserves problem, is now relegated to the dust bins. From here on out, Balances maintained that exceed the top of the penalty- free band (formerly known as excess reserves) will show a starting number of $1.977 trillion, rather than the decades under $1 billion.

by Anonymousreply 15807/28/2013

The fact that 30y mortgage rates are up 20% in 2 months doesn't bother you, r15?

by Anonymousreply 15907/29/2013

No one expected interest rates to remain this low forever. By historical standards, rates are still very low. That they increased some is actually a healthy sign.

The reason they went up 20% is because they started at such a low level.

by Anonymousreply 16007/29/2013

Jesus, get a room you two. I'm fucking embarrassed for both of you.

by Anonymousreply 16107/29/2013

R161

I'm embarrased for you.

The rise in interest rates will kill the real estate market, which is the only thing keeping the US out of ...well, I would say recession, but since we are 5 years into the Greater Depression, that isn't apt. It will push us DEEPER into depression. Weimar comes to mind, and since we already have the Stasi (NSA) then the election of a Hitleresque figure (and both Bush and Obama qualify) is all that is stopping the total destruction of freedom.

Do you get that?

by Anonymousreply 16207/29/2013

Interest rates are still really low now. In 2008, the 10 year yield was 4 percent, and even that was low. It's now 2.5 percent.

It's gone up because there's confidence in the economy.

by Anonymousreply 16307/29/2013

I love the fact that the Libertarian Idiot keeps posting the same bullshit over & over & over & over & over, ignoring every single challenge to his bullshit.

I guess we can all enjoy his spamming until Obama ships him off to the death camps.

by Anonymousreply 16407/29/2013

[quote]The fact that 30y mortgage rates are up 20% in 2 months doesn't bother you

Nope, because everyone knew they would climb. When rates are at historic lows like that, there is only one way they *can* go, moron. And, just as predicted, they have plateaued and are no longer climbing. So, once again, your confident predictions of doom, gloom, and economic meltdown are shown to be the bullshit that they always are.

[quote]The rise in interest rates will kill the real estate market

No they won't because they're not still rising and because we have survived far worse rates than this multiple times in the past. As usual, you don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about.

[quote]Weimar comes to mind

LOL.... Only if you're a moron. You've been predicting "Weimar" for years and you've been wrong for year. And you're still wrong: badly, stupidly, wrong.

Tell me again about all of those posts I'm supposed to have made, won't you? Like your other predictions and accusations, that, too, was stupidly and pathetically false.

by Anonymousreply 16507/29/2013

R165-

Bernanke on interest rates-

ROBIN HARDING. Robin Harding from the Financial Times. Mr. Chairman, you’ve always argued that it’s the stock of assets that the Federal Reserve holds which affects long-term interest rates. How do you reconcile that with a very sharp rise in real interest rates that we’ve seen in recent weeks? And do you think the market is correctly interpreting what you think is most likely to be the future path of the Federal Reserve’s stock of assets? Thank you.

CHAIRMAN BERNANKE. Well, we were a little puzzled by that. It was bigger than can be explained I think by changes in the ultimate stock of asset purchases within reasonable ranges. So I think we have to conclude that there are other factors at work as well, including, again, some optimism about the economy, maybe some uncertainty arising.

by Anonymousreply 16607/29/2013

R166 - There you have it. Bernake said that the rise in interest rates may be due to optimism about the economy.

He certainly did not appear to be frantically worried about it.

by Anonymousreply 16707/29/2013

The fact that The Bernank can say with a straight face that anyone outside of Wall St is "optimistic" about the US economy is comedy gold.

He doesn't have a fucking clue.

by Anonymousreply 16807/29/2013

Consumer confidence has been rising, R168.

Bernake is a lot smarter than you.

by Anonymousreply 16907/29/2013

[quote]The fact that The Bernank can say with a straight face that anyone outside of Wall St is "optimistic" about the US economy is comedy gold.

Um, since pretty much everyone other than clueless morons like yourself are "optimistic" about the U.S. economy, I'd say that the comedy here is in your posts, and lord knows you've given us plenty.

[quote]He doesn't have a fucking clue.

Says the moron whose every prediction, including the one that launched this thread, is dead wrong.

by Anonymousreply 17007/29/2013

And his predictions continue to be wrong, as interest rates continue to be stable, just as everyone (other than morons like the OP) predicted.

by Anonymousreply 17108/04/2013

And to our utter lack of surprise, OP's predictions continue to be wrong, since both treasury rates and mortgage rates continue to be stable, the housing market hasn't been "killed," the bond market stubbornly insists on not being "doomed," gold continues to not be climbing to 20,000 an ounce, and inflation stubbornly insists on remaining under control, precisely as the rest of us predicted.

And the "collapse" he's been praying for and confidently predicting just hasn't happened and isn't going to happen. And this comment, "Someone that religiously believes in something so wrong...it's just sad," is still a classic case of projection.

by Anonymousreply 17208/11/2013

And they get higher each week.

by Anonymousreply 17308/24/2013

LOL.... R173, why are you lying so clumsily and stupidly? Interest rates plateaued, moron, just as everyone but idiots like you predicted, and they're still below where everyone expects them to end up.

Out of curiosity, how many times do you have to be proved wrong before it finally sinks in that you don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about?

by Anonymousreply 17408/25/2013

R174-

In what universe is a 6% (M/M, month over month) increase a "plateau"?

In what universe is a 20% drop in re-fi and new home loans a "plateau"?

by Anonymousreply 17508/26/2013

who would bump one of the tedious libertarian troll's threads? WHO?

by Anonymousreply 17608/26/2013

Who do you think, R176? It was the libertarian troll himself.

Oh, and R175, out in the real world, this is what we call a plateau:

6/26: 4.61%

7/3: 4/48%

7/10: 4.66%

7/17: 4.56%

7/24: 4.54%

7/31: 4.59%

8/7: 4.56%

8/14: 4.57%

8/21: 4.74%

Don't you ever get tired of having your ass handed to you?

by Anonymousreply 17708/26/2013

8/31: 4.47%

Tell us again, moron, how they're "getting higher each week."

Tell me, have you ever let reality intrude on your fantasies?

by Anonymousreply 17808/31/2013

Just like a Keynesian-

You have no framework, so you can only extrapolate from the past.

The governors of the Federal Reserve are panicked about the trillions in reserves- that is why they are introducing NEW powers to deal with the problems they created in 2008. When they fail, then interest rates will go much higher.

I can't wait to bump this thread in a few months to expose your ignorance.

by Anonymousreply 17908/31/2013

[quote]Just like a Keynesian- You have no framework, so you can only extrapolate from the past.

LOL.... Moron, that describes Austrian economists, not Keynesians. Keynesians do, in fact, have a framework, and a solid one. And it's that framework that shows why I'm quite sure that your predictions will not, and can not, come true: the economic conditions are such that the hyperinflation and runaway bond rates you've been predicting cannot happen under the current circumstances.

Oh, and moron, *all* economists, even Austrian economists, look to the past for lessons learned.

[quote]The governors of the Federal Reserve are panicked about the trillions in reserves-

Sorry, moron, but they're not, which is why you can't find any actual evidence to support this latest silliness. The "trillions" are basically just sitting there and will be wound down as easily as they were originally wound up.

[quote]hat is why they are introducing NEW powers to deal with the problems they created in 2008.

There's only one problem with this latest assertion: it's false. There really isn't anything particularly new about what the Federal Reserve is doing. Morons like you *always* claim that the Fed's actions will lead to disaster. In 100 years, you've never been correct and there is zero reason to believe you're correct today.

[quote]When they fail, then interest rates will go much higher.

So you've been claiming for years. Sadly for you, your prediction, like all of your predictions, has been false, and stupidly so.

[quote]I can't wait to bump this thread in a few months to expose your ignorance.

LOL... So you've said, repeatedly. And yet, the only person who's been bumping this thread is me, as your predictions, once again, entirely fail to come true.

You can't even bring yourself to acknowledge that what you wrote in R173 is not only false, it's stupidly false. That's the difference between us: I own my mistakes, accept them, and admit to them. You never do.

by Anonymousreply 18008/31/2013

What's funny about your post at R179, by the way, is that I caught you making a clearly false statement in R173, either lying deliberately or just being stupid. So what do you do when you get the data that demonstrate that your post was false? You go on the attack and you utterly fail to own up to your clear mistake.

Game. Set. Match.

by Anonymousreply 18108/31/2013

My post at R179-----

flag: [ww] [ff] [troll-dar]

And they get higher each week.

by: Anonymoustreply 173t08/24/2013 @ 11:37PM

by Anonymousreply 18209/02/2013

R179 - "The governors of the Federal Reserve are panicked about the trillions in reserves- that is why they are introducing NEW powers to deal with the problems they created in 2008. When they fail, then interest rates will go much higher."

You really are a dishonest moron.

by Anonymousreply 18309/02/2013

[quote]And they get higher each week.

Yes, moron, that's what you wrote at R173. And it was demonstrably and provably (and stupidly) false. You are either stupid or lying (or both).

[quote]Which Keynesian is predicting the approaching crash? None of them - Cramer, Thugman- they are predicting recovery.

Wow.... you genuinely are both stupid and delusional, aren't you? You have arbitrarily decided, with zero actual evidence, that we have an "approaching crash" (a prediction you've been making for years) and, therefore, anyone who doesn't predict a crash must be wrong? The mind boggles at the level of delusion required to post that drivel.

No, moron, they're not predicting an "approaching crash" because the data don't support such a prediction. Neither the Keynesian model nor the historical data show such an event. They are predicting recovery for the simple reason that the economy is, in fact, recovering.

[quote]Why create new "off the hook" bullshit new powers?

They didn't. Next?

[quote]I can't wait to bump this thread in a few months to expose your ignorance.

LOL.... That's what you said over two months ago. You said that interest rates would keep spiking, that the bond market was doomed, that the housing market would collapse, and that the economy would see a complete meltdown.

I said that interest rates were temporarily spiking due to an overreaction on the part of the market to comments by Bernanke and that they would quickly plateau.

The simple fact is that I was right and you were wrong, just as you're wrong today and just as you'll be wrong in another six months when I bump this thread. Oh, and that you were lying in your post at R173. Deal with it.

by Anonymousreply 18509/02/2013

Uh

by Anonymousreply 18609/02/2013

Bravo, R186! Finally, a post that isn't just downright stupid! Keep it up!

by Anonymousreply 18709/02/2013

It is so funnysad-

R187 (and his acolytes) ---well, 7 years ago they swore up and down and sideways that the housing market was fine, that Bernanke and Krugman were in control--- and then when it collapsed they disavowed all previous statements.

2 and 3 and 4 and 5 (and soon to be 6) years ago they said "the economy is getting better" and praised the Federal Reserve. They mocked anyone who dared claim that Krugman and Bernanke were wrong, and that their policies were destroying the country.

Now the economy is even deeper in recession, with higher inflation, and First Great Depression level unemployment. But they PROMISE that just a little more tweaking by academic economists can fix things.

We, as individuals, make thousands of decisions each day. Whether to pack a lunch or eat out, carry an umbrella, whether to hit "snooze", whether to drive 5 mph over the limit, whether to watch "Pink is the New Black"-- but people like R185 want to control most of those choices, because they think the government can control the supply, quantity and quality of money--- despite the fact that their decisions are usually too wrong, too slow or too inept to "control" a medium like "MONEY" that is inherently uncontrollable.

Such hubris makes me sad.

by Anonymousreply 18809/03/2013

Watch this video from 28 Aug 2006

The people who studied the AUSTRIAN SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS were the only "scholarly experts" that saw the crash coming.

by Anonymousreply 18909/03/2013

[quote]It is so funnysad-

Not really. You're just funny; there's nothing sad about you. Pathetic, maybe.

[quote][R187] (and his acolytes) ---well, 7 years ago they swore up and down and sideways that the housing market was fine,

Why are you lying so clumsily and so stupidly, moron? You know that what you're writing is false, and stupidly so. Not only did I predict the housing crash, so did damn near everyone, since it was so blindingly obvious.

[quote]that Bernanke and Krugman were in control--- and then when it collapsed they disavowed all previous statements.

Sigh.... And yet more clumsy lies, since you can't find a single statement of mine that even remotely resembles these fantasies of yours. You really don't have any connection to the real world, do you? You simply make shit up and don't even care if it's true!

[quote]2 and 3 and 4 and 5 (and soon to be 6) years ago they said "the economy is getting better" and praised the Federal Reserve.

Moron, out here in the real world, the economy is, in fact, getting better. Or has it escaped your notice that it was in a complete meltdown six years ago? Note that you cannot post a single link to validate anything you're writing, mostly because, as usual, you're making shit up.

[quote]They mocked anyone who dared claim that Krugman and Bernanke were wrong, and that their policies were destroying the country.

LOL.... There is a reason we're mocking you, moron; you're genuinely stupid and totally disconnected from reality, since the current policies are manifestly not "destroying the country," nor have you been able to find a single shred of evidence that they are.

[quote]Now the economy is even deeper in recession

No, moron, it's not, which is why you can't support this bit of silliness, either. You really do seem to believe that you can just make shit up without any regard to reality, don't you?

[quote[with higher inflation

No, moron, it's not. Out here in the real world, inflation remains low and under control.

[quote]and First Great Depression level unemployment.

No, moron, it's not. Out here in the real world, the jobs are slowly returning.

[quote]but people like [R185] want to control most of those choices

No, moron, I don't, which is why you can't actually find any quotes of mine that indicate I do. You're lying again. Are you really so desperate?

This was really quite a tour de force, even for you. A total disconnection from reality, blatant lies, and utter disregard for the fact that your predictions never come true and that you blatantly lied in your R173 post, a fact that you have never, not once, acknowledged.

by Anonymousreply 19009/03/2013

[quote]The people who studied the AUSTRIAN SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS were the only "scholarly experts" that saw the crash coming.

Moron, why do you post crap that's been debunked time and time again? *Everyone* predicted the crash. That we were in a housing bubble was blindingly obvious. Krugman posted on it. So did quite a few others, including economists from all of the major economic schools of thought.

As usual, you're either deliberately lying or you're genuinely stupid. Which is it?

by Anonymousreply 19109/03/2013

R191-

I hope you like crow. Raw.

by Anonymousreply 19209/03/2013

[quote]I hope you like crow. Raw.

Awfully tough talk for somebody who's been absolutely, positively, 200% wrong about, well, everything in the past six years.

by Anonymousreply 19309/04/2013

Is that really the best you can come up with, R192? You got caught deliberately lying in your posts in R188 and R189, you got caught making stupid misstatements about the state of the economy, and that was your best response? Wow... that's just pathetic.

And, of course, you still can't bring yourself to admit that you were lying in your post at R173 or deal with the actual data I posted in R178 and R179. And, as R193 notes, you've been completely and consistently wrong about, well, everything, for the past six years.

by Anonymousreply 19409/04/2013

[quote]I hope you like crow. Raw.

Still can't bring yourself to admit you were lying in post R173, can you? Here are some new numbers for you:

8/21: 4.74 8/28: 4.62 9/4: 4.72 9/11: 4.71

I said interest rates had plateaued; you said that they were getting higher each week. Now what was that you were saying about "eating crow," moron?

by Anonymousreply 19509/14/2013

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by Anonymousreply 19609/29/2013
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