[quote]We watch the news for a while, and the infamous Steubenville rape case flashes on the TV—two high school football players raped a 16-year-old, while other students watched and texted details of the crime. Serena just shakes her head. "Do you think it was fair, what they got? They did something stupid, but I don't know. I'm not blaming the girl, but if you're a 16-year-old and you're drunk like that, your parents should teach you: don't take drinks from other people. She's 16, why was she that drunk where she doesn't remember? It could have been much worse. She's lucky. Obviously I don't know, maybe she wasn't a virgin, but she shouldn't have put herself in that position, unless they slipped her something, then that's different."
Serena Williams On Steubenville: "I'm Not Blaming The Girl But ..."
|by Anonymous||reply 105||06/20/2013|
Funny that this thread WILL devolve into covert (and not so covert) bigotry, when most of DL probably said the exact same thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 1||06/18/2013|
"She's still not going to be invited to the cool parties."
The "cool parties"? What is this, eighth grade?
|by Anonymous||reply 2||06/18/2013|
I'm glad I don't have kids.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||06/18/2013|
Both the Williams girls are basically illiterate. All they know is tennis and whatever that fucked up father of theirs force-fed them all these years.
Serena's blathering is hardly an informed, intelligent perspective on this case.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||06/18/2013|
I seriously lol-ed at what she said about, I presume, Maria Sharapova? It just reeked of jealousy. Sharapova makes way more that Williams and I doubt she wants to be invited to the kind of parties Williams means. Sharapova is more likely to want to go to a fashion show and sit next to Anna Wintour.
Venus is intelligent and quite thoughtful, but Serena is just thick, to be honest.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||06/18/2013|
Last year in my city an underage girl was assaulted and raped while she was unconscious in a canyon by 3 guys she believed were her friends. She was alone with the 3 guys drinking and partying in the canyon. I don't want to come of as insensitive but we have to teach young girls to take better precautions. It's not smart or safe to drink while underage and particularly with a bunch of young guys when you are the lone girl or even among just a few other girls. I don't care if you think the guys are your friends, it's not smart and it's not safe. And we can't be afraid to say that and teach young girls and women to protect themselves by taking precautions and making smart choices. I don't understand how we got to this place in society where we've become afraid to tell/teach people, particularly young people to make better decisions.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||06/18/2013|
So if 3 guys raped their drunk male friend in a canyon would we be lamenting the fact that boys don't take precautions and protect themselves?
|by Anonymous||reply 7||06/18/2013|
R5, I'm not the biggest fan of the WTA so I'm pretty indifferent when it comes to those two. But in tennis, grand-slam titles are what matters, not how much they make. Especially since they're all multimillionaires anyway. Serena has way more GS and IRRC, Sharapova hasn't beaten her in a decade. So I doubt it's jealously. It's just typical catty remarks that are so very common on the WTA side and have been for decades.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||06/18/2013|
[quote]I don't want to come of as insensitive but we have to teach young girls to take better precautions.
We have to teach boys it's not okay to assault girls. Whether she's drunk or dressed in skimpy clothing or whatever the excuse used to justify the assault.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||06/18/2013|
We have to teach girls not to use rape as a reset button for choices that they may later regret.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||06/18/2013|
Which is more likely R7? Give me the statistics on it if you can?
|by Anonymous||reply 11||06/18/2013|
I agree r9, and it obviously is the fault of the boys, but the girls need to be taught to look out for themselves as well. Common sense things like stick together, do not leave your girlfriends alone ever, do not take drinks from people you don't know, and don't get so drunk that you are completely out of control. We knew this shit in the early 90s, but I grew up in the hood...maybe rich people in better neighborhoods don't teach their girls this stuff?
|by Anonymous||reply 13||06/18/2013|
And that's exactly why I said we have to teach young people to make better choices. I'm not with the typical PC line of thinking that we don't have to take precautions in life and make smart choices. And that we place the responsibility for our personal safety on other people, R9. If there's a Klan rally in a park, I'd hope that minorities would take enough precautions and not go have a picnic in the park right next to the Klan rally.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||06/18/2013|
[quote]Funny that this thread WILL devolve into covert (and not so covert) bigotry, when most of DL probably said the exact same thing.
I'm feeling grateful I'm not "most of DL."
This is the 2013 version of she was asking for it; look how she's dressed.
So much easier to blame the victim than to admit that we have created a society where many young men believe they have a right to do anything they want.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||06/18/2013|
[quote]I don't want to come of [sic] as insensitive
Well you failed. You came across as completely insensitive as well as decidedly stupid.
Please stop commenting on this, you obviously don't know anything. You're like a Republican talking about rape - just stop.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||06/18/2013|
Please don't let her be...
|by Anonymous||reply 17||06/18/2013|
[quote]We knew this shit in the early 90s, but I grew up in the hood...maybe rich people in better neighborhoods don't teach their girls this stuff?
Of course they fucking do because one thing all girls learn early on is that there is potential danger for them "out there", but if you go out with three people you thought were your friends you're supposed to remain fucking paranoid then too? Jesus fucking Christ, when are people going to realize that when a woman gets assaulted the blame needs to be placed on the people who [italic]commit the crimes?[/italic]FUCK!
|by Anonymous||reply 18||06/18/2013|
She isn't right, though. The onus rests on men to not rape women, not the other way around. It doesn't (or shouldn't) matter what a women wears, where she goes, if she drinks. The final responsibility will always remain with men. I know that most people think rape is "bad" (or at least respond that way when questioned), but being just 26, I wonder if there has ever really been a concerted cultural effort to instill the mindset into men (and women, too) that the rapist is the problem. Because it seems to me that still most people, at least in a roundabout way, continue to blame the victims of rape rather than the perpetrators.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||06/18/2013|
And your post was incredibly profound, R16. You've enlightened us all. Just keep placing responsibility for your personal safety on other people. I'm sure it will work out quite well. Who needs alarm systems? We just need to teach burglars to stop burglarizing. Homeowners don't have to take any precautions, it's not their responsibility.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||06/18/2013|
|by Anonymous||reply 21||06/18/2013|
"So much easier to blame the victim than to admit that we have created a society where many young men believe they have a right to do anything they want."
Actually, we've created a society where young men are LESS likely to commit rate. Check the statistics.
"I'm not with the typical PC line of thinking that we don't have to take precautions in life and make smart choices"
Let me guess...you're a Republican, right? You can teach people to make smart choices without blaming the victim or saying that the perpetrators don't deserve punishment.
"She's right. of course the DL faggot racists will hurl slurs at her."
You sound really dumb. She's totally wrong and race has nothing to do with it.
"We knew this shit in the early 90s, but I grew up in the hood...maybe rich people in better neighborhoods don't teach their girls this stuff?"
You think rape never happens in the hood?! LOL.
If a girl gets drunk at a party, and someone steals her purse while she's passed out no one says it's okay to steal her stuff because she was drunk and let's teach girls to make better decisions! We blame the perps, not the victim. But rape tends to bring out lots of victim-blaming...
|by Anonymous||reply 22||06/18/2013|
Why is it an either-or argument? Both things can be true. Men should never ever rape. They shouldn't pursue sex when women are heavily under the influence, etc. And women should be cautious to take care and prevent others from taking control from them.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||06/18/2013|
The focus for so long has been something like 80% "Women should take precautions" vs. 20% "Men shouldn't rape" when it should be the exact opposite. The focus needs to be on men, and teaching them and getting them to truly understand why rape is wrong, not on women needing to be wary of men.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||06/18/2013|
I hate to say it r22, but I grew up in the hood, and we knew better than to leave a drunk friend at a party back then. Our mother's would beat our asses for not looking out for our friends. Of course there is rape in the hood, but it is not the 'drunken girl ditched at a party' variety.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||06/18/2013|
[quote]Actually, we've created a society where young men are LESS likely to commit rate. Check the statistics.
Well, that's very good, but the assholes are obviously still among us or we wouldn't have had these two recent cases.
I would hate to teach a daughter that she can't trust any man to be a genuine friend. Kids, because they lack judgment and think they're immortal and won't come to any harm, believe it's okay to drink until they pass out. That may be the real issue here but kids testing their boundaries is as old as time.
Maybe what's actually new and different is that these cases are being prosecuted.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||06/18/2013|
I will add r22, that I do blame drunk people that get things stolen. I don't think it is the same as rape. My friend got wasted, and stopped at mcdonalds on the way home from the bar. She went inside, and left her $800 gucci wallet in the counter. She drove home before she realized that it was gone. She called the mcdonalds, and they told her that no one found it. She was livid, and wanted to see security videos, and continues to tell everyone that it was stolen. Sorry, but you left an expensive item on a mcdonalds counter. You have to take responsibility for your actions, and not blame other people for your drunken stupidity.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||06/18/2013|
r22, folks from 'tha hood' tell their kids how to look after themselves because they know the world isn't kind and just. I've grown up with kids from lovely neighborhoods and they seem to think as long as they're with 'their kind' no harm will come to them.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||06/18/2013|
R8, but it wasn't about tennis. It was about personal life.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||06/18/2013|
The Serena backlash is just starting. She better issue an apology ASAP.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||06/18/2013|
An old saying applies here: Anything before the "but" is a lie.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||06/18/2013|
R23, I'm sure that's what most sane people believe but just aren't allowed to say out loud. Men have been taking advantage of women sexually since the beginning of time and while I agree that all boys should be taught very early on to respect girls ( who wouldn't agree with this?) all of them won't do so. There will still be men who will take advantage of women in sexual way. They already know it's wrong but they do it anyway. Therefore, girls/women also need to take proper precautions. Getting drunk underage to the point of passing out in a canyon in the middle of the night with a bunch of guys is not the best choice to make. But saying so makes one a Republican. Putting your personal safety in another person's hands is apparently the right thing to do. So throw out your security systems.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||06/18/2013|
Ummm r23--your post is reasonable, thoughtful, succinct and on topic.
WTF is wrong with you?!?! Have you forgotten where you are?
And on a post about blacks, women and rape no less!
|by Anonymous||reply 33||06/18/2013|
Of course Serena is going to defend rapists. She herself is a street thug who threatens officials, so it's only natural that she'd feel defensive about other criminal-minded lowlifes.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||06/18/2013|
Venus and Serena must have different fathers. Venus is thoughtful,gracious and intelligent. Serena is just an asshole.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||06/19/2013|
The full interview:
|by Anonymous||reply 36||06/19/2013|
I just know that I wish I could be Trent Mays' jailer... that looks like a nice slab of beef!
I will say that the victim seemed a few cards short of a full deck. She broke up with one of the football players. She knew how angry he was, and that he threatened her. She knew the team's reputation, and that some players were called 'the rape crew'. Yet she didn't think twice about it when Mays, who had a girlfriend, began flirting with her and trying to get her to go out that night. I can't even count the number of red flags that I would have seen that something was wrong. But I had a very anxious mother and was taught to be overly cautious about everything.
Something else no one talks about is that Mays' girlfriend was in on it and encouraged her to come out that night too. Several girls were at the three or four houses that the guys took the victim to, none of them tried to help her.
I am NOT saying that the victim was at all at fault or anything, so no need to flame me. I just think that girl must have been raised to be very trusting, or something.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||06/19/2013|
|by Anonymous||reply 38||06/19/2013|
Sorry [r22] but rape stats are not a reliable way of gauging how many rapes are occurring. It is entirely possible that rapes are just not being reported and Jesus, why would you?
Not only do you have the rape to contend with but arseholes chiming in on how stupid you were for having gotten drunk within a thousand mile radius of men, or how much of a whore you must be.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||06/19/2013|
Any parent who does not teach their son to respect woman and not take advantage of them if they become incapacitated is derelict in their parenting duties.
Any parent who does not teach their daughter to take precautions and behave with self respect and not put themselves in a vunerable position are also derelict.
This is not a new way of thinking. As a matter of fact it's very old fashioned. Some times the old ways were right.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||06/19/2013|
And here's the official 'retraction' and 'apology':
"What happened in Steubenville was a real shock for me. I was deeply saddened. For someone to be raped, and at only sixteen, is such a horrible tragedy! For both families involved – that of the rape victim and of the accused. I am currently reaching out to the girl’s family to let her know that I am deeply sorry for what was written in the Rolling Stone article. What was written – what I supposedly said – is insensitive and hurtful, and I by no means would say or insinuate that she was at all to blame.
I have fought all of my career for women’s equality, women’s equal rights, respect in their fields – anything I could do to support women I have done. My prayers and support always goes out to the rape victim. In this case, most especially, to an innocent sixteen year old child."
Two things ping straight off:
1) "I am deeply sorry for what was written in the RS article" - note passive structure without specification of the agent. She does NOT name the journalist, as doing so would make explicit the accusation of wilful misrepresentation by the journalist; the "accusation" remains implicit (and can be denied further on down the line if necessary).
2) "what I supposedly said" - she NEVER explicitly denies having said what was quoted. Again, she chooses very slippery wording: technically, what she's saying is unquestionably right (some people must be supposing that I said what appeared in inverted commas in the article), but the implication is "your supposition would be wrong" - BUT she never says this explicitly.
If it's true that she didn't say what some of us must be supposing she said, surely she must be considering legal action against the journo and/or RS. I'd like to see how that goes if she tries it out.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||06/19/2013|
Both families? There were three families involved, two of them the perpetrators' and the third the victim's.
No doubt the crime was devastating to the rapists' families, but I'm not sure they're due much sympathy. The incident proved they failed as parents.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||06/19/2013|
One more shocking thing about SW's "apology": she refers to the rapists (even though her "both families involved" implies that she's talking about only one rapist) as "the accused". Richmond and Mays were actually *convicted* in juvenile court, i.e. found *guilty* of rape.
The more I read the statement, the more I'm appalled.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||06/20/2013|
Agreed, R43. In some respects it's worse than the original statement.
That "accused" description irritated me too. I wonder how much she actually knows about the case.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||06/20/2013|
Serena sounds like somebody slipped her something, what a nitwit!
|by Anonymous||reply 45||06/20/2013|
Why is the silly tennis ball knocker commenting on this anyway?
|by Anonymous||reply 46||06/20/2013|
If women stuck together like men do, the world would be a very different place.
And notice how the basic tone here is, "Men are inherently dangerous to women, especially men in groups; and one should never be the lone woman with a group of men or even just one man. In fact, even men one knows well can be dangerous to women: the uncle, the stepfather, the teacher -- even they can rape or hurt, and one must be mindful and possibly take precautions against them."
And you guys know this is true.
So bearing that in mind, I don't understand why women want to be with/sleep with/marry men in the first damned place.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||06/20/2013|
To imply that boys bear no responsibility for raping a girl because, hey, she made bad decisions, is deeply messed up. Serena needs therapy.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||06/20/2013|
I lost affection for this woman and her roided-out sister some time ago.
When you pause to listen to and watch them in interviews and such, they both come across as incredibly vapid, entitled and shallow people. This only confirms those impressions are true.
One young tennis pro who recently beat her (or maybe it was Venus?) gave an interview about how unpleasant she was to her in tournaments past and how she has a sort of classism about her.
She can't fade away soon enough.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||06/20/2013|
R47 has severe daddy and misandry issues.
Get some counseling you bitter, nasty, hating dyke.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||06/20/2013|
r47 speaks the absolute truth, bitter faggot above. We live in a society where we're basically taught that men are fucking dangerous creatures we shouldn't trust, and at the same time we're told not the hate their asses. It doesn't compute. So which one is it?
|by Anonymous||reply 51||06/20/2013|
[quote] "Do you think it was fair, what they got?"
WTF Serena. They should have gotten a lot more!!
[quote] "She's still not going to be invited to the cool parties."
JESUS! Could you sound anymore superficial?
|by Anonymous||reply 52||06/20/2013|
Serena is right.
When I played high school football, drunk white girls at parties were the norm. And yes we had sex with them.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||06/20/2013|
What she said about Sharapova had jealousy written all over it
|by Anonymous||reply 54||06/20/2013|
Okay, using her line of 'reasoning' I'm not blaming the guys, but they had to have known what would happen to them if they did what they did.
Cuts both ways, honey.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||06/20/2013|
Why was this dumb fuck even asked?
|by Anonymous||reply 56||06/20/2013|
Sure you did, queeny. LMAO
|by Anonymous||reply 57||06/20/2013|
I think she brought it up first.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||06/20/2013|
[quote]while she was unconscious in a canyon by 3 guys she believed were her friends. She was alone with the 3 guys drinking and partying in the canyon.
I've been a drunk 16-year-old alone, around guy friends at home, in the woods for kegs, in cars, at parties, at parks, and hiking and I've been around other 16-year-old wasted teens. I've also been drunk at frats when I got older.
I was never in all my years of partying intimidated, groped or raped. Neither were any of my friends. It was different back then and guys were more respectful, AND didn't have smartphones, Youtube, Twitter and a culture steeped in so much bravado and idiocy.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||06/20/2013|
How is she jealous of Sharapova when she has more grand slams, more tittles, is more famous and beats her every time?
|by Anonymous||reply 60||06/20/2013|
Ok. Just like you'd advice someone not to walk around a tough neighbourhood after dark; I think it's safe to teach teenage girls not to get drunk to the point they can't remember anything around horny teenage boys.
Serena has point that's being ignored because she's Serena.
|by Anonymous||reply 61||06/20/2013|
Sssssh, r60. Stop making sense. All the matters is that Serena fts two categories of DL's favorite kind of people to hate.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||06/20/2013|
I think you know the answer, R60. I'm sur ethey also think she;s jealous of Anna Kournikova
Some gay white men and fraus are simply pathetic.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||06/20/2013|
[quote]My friend got wasted, and stopped at mcdonalds on the way home from the bar. She went inside, and left her $800 gucci wallet in the counter. She drove home before she realized that it was gone.
Then she drove home? I think this is a bigger issue than leaving her wallet.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||06/20/2013|
[quote]Ok. Just like you'd advice someone not to walk around a tough neighbourhood after dark; I think it's safe to teach teenage girls not to get drunk to the point they can't remember anything around horny teenage boys.
Maybe horny teenage boys should be taught they don't get to commit crimes just because they're horny.
|by Anonymous||reply 65||06/20/2013|
I'm not a RS reader, are their articles always this bitchy?
[quote]Here are the facts. Serena is the number-one tennis player in the world. Maria Sharapova is the number-two tennis player in the world. Sharapova is tall, white and blond, and, because of that, makes more money in endorsements than Serena, who is black, beautiful and built like one of those monster trucks that crushes Volkswagens at sports arenas. Sharapova has not beaten Serena in nine years. Think about that for a moment. Nine years ago Matchbox Twenty and John Edwards mattered. The chasm between Serena and the rest of women's tennis is as vast and broad as the space between Ryan Lochte's ears. Get back to me when LeBron beats Kevin Durant's Oklahoma City Thunder every time for nine years.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||06/20/2013|
[quote] "I'm Not Blaming The Girl But ..."
But ya are, Blanche! Ya are!
|by Anonymous||reply 67||06/20/2013|
I apologize.... for what I supposedly said.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||06/20/2013|
Even better, R68: "I apologize if anyone was offended by what I supposedly said."
|by Anonymous||reply 69||06/20/2013|
Whether it's Sharapova's looks, endorsements, love life or what. I don't know.
But, like R5 said, what Serena said just reeks of jealousy. I mean, that fact just LEAPS out to you. It's quite obvious and there for everyone to see.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||06/20/2013|
I don't think there's anything wrong with advising a 16 year old girl that she shouldn't get black out drunk with a bunch of people you barely know and if you do, make sure you have girlfriends around who'll look after you. It's just common sense advice and I don't see anything wrong with Serena saying so.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||06/20/2013|
Yes, R71, but Serena stated that she thought the punishment the rapists received was unfair. She also refers to the, as "the accused" rather than "the convicted." That is outrageous especially considering the relatively light sentences they received.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||06/20/2013|
Well see, it's completely true that Serena is unquestionably the best tennis player by far and that Sharapova can't even beat her. That is probably why it hurts that Sharapova gets more positive attention from the press, and money, and hot bfs, and whatever else.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||06/20/2013|
Uh, r71..... Serena thinks "the boys" didn't deserve the minimal punishment that they got.
I find a great deal wrong with that!!
|by Anonymous||reply 74||06/20/2013|
I wish someone would ask Serena who killed Jon Benet Ramsey!
|by Anonymous||reply 75||06/20/2013|
Serena is a fugly, violent sheboon who is jealous of and hates all white people, especially women. No wonder this ghetto thug thinks it's the girl's fault. If the rape victim had been a black woman, Serena would be rolling her neck, wagging her finger and screaming her demands for justice. Fucking thug bitch!
|by Anonymous||reply 76||06/20/2013|
Get over yourself R76, you don't know any of those things (and frankly, she's sound more assimilated than you do. You are the one who is an uncivilzed barbarian 'round here).
|by Anonymous||reply 77||06/20/2013|
R74 I don't know much about the case. But I do remember some blogger was the one that really pushed for this all to come to trial.
It seemed the girl had no memory of what happened so the guys were convicted on the basis of the pictures that were sent out on social media. The evidence they had was the girl was penetrated digitally and that's what they were convicted of because in Ohio that comes under the rape status. Maybe Serena had some issues with that. Maybe she distinguishes fingering from penile penetration. I don't know but It's really just her opinion though and not something I think people need to get all worked up about.
|by Anonymous||reply 78||06/20/2013|
Rape is the only crime where blaming the victim seems to be the default setting. It's got to stop, and morons like Serena Williams need to learn to think before commenting. I fear we're going backwards in attitudes to treating half the population as sex objects. It's even more depressing when women join in.
The victim in this case was sexually assaulted and pissed on by frat boys who video-ed themselves doing it and shared the footage around. What sort of person does that to another human being? If they did it to an animal I could almost guarantee there would have been more outrage.
Personal responsibility for rape lies with RAPISTS, not victims. YES, women should take precautions against predatory males, but the culture of leering, groping, demeaning and abusing women has got to stop. Men, gay and straight, have their part to play in this. The majority don't act this way, so why let the minority set the bar so low?
|by Anonymous||reply 79||06/20/2013|
This is such an absurd debate. You people who keep shouting that to teach women to protect themselves somehow means men get a free pass are absolutely ridiculous. Responsible parents need to teach their children to be responsible and respectful adults. Teaching your daughter how to make good decisions so that she doesn't become a victim is not an endorsement for rape. Nor is it placing blaming at the feet of rape victims for the crime that they endured. It is about simply doing what is in the best interest of your child. The average man is stronger than the average woman. That is simply a fact of nature. Therefore should he choose, the average man can over power the average woman. This increases a woman's chance of being a potential victim of assault. When you add alcohol/drugs to the equation the chance of victimization again increases. When a 16 year old female drinks until she is incapacitated and depends upon other inebriated teenagers to protect her from harm; she is again increasing the odds of her own potential victimization. More importantly no one should drink until they black out. Any person of any age/gender who drinks until they are incapacitated is putting themselves at risk but particularly those who publicly drink until they are incapacitated. No 16 year old should consume any amount of alcohol at all, much less enough to be blackout drunk. There are countless stories of women who put themselves in this situation and were assaulted. More often than not women are victimized by men that they know. These are all well known facts. No one should talk about this case without talking about what teenage women can do to prevent their own victimization. This is merely stating the obvious. The two teenage boys who victimized the teenage girl committed a crime and deserve to be punished to the full extent of the law. The kid's parents should not have allowed their teenage kids to have unchaperoned parties. All off these variables need to be discussed so that this doesn't happen to more teenage children. I understand how Serena's comments can be considered clumsy or maybe insensitive. However what she said was very accurate and no it is not they same as saying the victim was dressed inappropriately. All day yesterday people made nasty hateful racist comments about Serena because they were offended by her comments. So I guess the lesson is that hate/racism are acceptable but telling women how to avoid being victims is not.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||06/20/2013|
[quote] The kid's parents should not have allowed their teenage kids to have unchaperoned parties
Only in the magical Frau fantasy land would this happen.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||06/20/2013|
Did Serena have a blunted childhood? Her sister seems okay.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||06/20/2013|
I'm a 38 yr old male. Unfortunately, culturally in the United States, parents taking responsibility for their children and teaching them to be responsible/respectful adults at this point is a fantasy. That is why we have a generation of ignorant, disrespectful, entitled brats. However it doesn't change the fact that it is the parents job to supervise that child.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||06/20/2013|
I (gay male) got beat up, raped, robbed, and otherwise victimized while drunk. And it taught me not to drink so much. It's wrong, but she's right.
|by Anonymous||reply 84||06/20/2013|
[quote]Did Serena have a blunted childhood?
Yes, she smoked a lot of joints.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||06/20/2013|
R84, she's only partially right. And it's still the minority part.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||06/20/2013|
Back up just a little, Williams fans and apologists (btw, why do you always refer to her as Serena, as if she were your personal friend or something? really creepy...). In her interview, in the quoted section, she says
[quote]Do you think it was fair, what they got? They did something stupid, but I don't know.
I.e., she refers to the fact that the boys paraded her naked at a party, to the unwanted/unsolicited digital penetration, to the filming of said incident, to the posting to various social networks of said incident, and to the fact that the girl was taken to a basement where they tried to make her perform oral sex as "something stupid," and wonders if they weren't treated too harshly.
I find it hard to believe that all you've got to say is "she's not wrong to imply that the girl should have been careful and shouldn't have got drunk". Of course the girl should have been more careful and of course she shouldn't have got so drunk that she couldn't put up more resistance—but the boys did what they did, and they got a lot less than they deserved for it.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||06/20/2013|
[quote]It's wrong, but she's right.
you are fucked in the head, r84.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||06/20/2013|
r66, as was said elsewhere either on this thread or the other one where the RS article was brought up, the article was written not by a journalist, but by a fan with a typewriter (which accounts for about 99% of all tennis-related journalism).
|by Anonymous||reply 89||06/20/2013|
R88 Is personally insulting assault victims and telling them how they should feel about their victimization your definition of advocacy. R87 Is it creepy when everyone here refers to Ina Garten as Ina, Barbra Striesand as Barbra, Martha Stewart as Martha. What damn difference does it make. As far as the punishment of the teen boys; she asked the interviewer if he thought it was fair. She said she that she didn't know. Without her elaborating on what that actually means; we can only make assumptions that may be correct or incorrect.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||06/20/2013|
R87, people refer to her as Serena because a) that's her name and b) she shares a last name with her famous sister so Ms. Williams is confusing. The fact that you find that creepy says far more about you than the rest of the world.
From what I know about the case, I think the men should have been convicted. I would like to know why Serena thinks their conviction and sentencing was unfair. Perhaps she knows more about it than I do or she has another perspective worth considering.
The lust we have to tear apart people seems to overcome our openness to hearing a different POV. I take Serena at face value that she never meant harm towards the girl. I suspect she never thought her off the cuff comments were going to be public. She didn't blare this from the mountaintop as much as you'd like to frame it as if she did.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||06/20/2013|
[quote]personally insulting assault victims
no, r90, just r88, don't twist things around.
|by Anonymous||reply 92||06/20/2013|
Here's what the parents supposedly think of Serena and her apology for her off the cuff remarks.
"'We just read Serena's updated comments and we're proud of her for correcting and clarifying her prior statements,' the family said, according to a statement issued on their behalf by attorney Bob Fitzsimmons. 'We are sure Serena has and will continue to use her God-given talents to advance women's equality and send the message that rape is never acceptable under any circumstance.
'We are fans of Serena and will continue rooting for many more championships but more importantly watching her advance the cause of rape victims who are never to blame."
|by Anonymous||reply 93||06/20/2013|
Oh please, r90, you can't tell me that you honestly believe Serena Williams is literally saying "I don't know if they got the right punishment"??!! What she is saying is "I believe their punishment was too harsh considering all they did was something stupid." This is not conjecture—it's the way modern, contemporary English works, and to otherwise interpret what she says is to do so in bad faith.
As for others using "Barbra" for Barbra Streisand and "Martha" for Martha Stewart, yes, I think it's just as creepy—when it's done without irony, of course; and when it's done to denote (abject) fandom or to imply intimacy. I'm an equal opportunity cunt.
|by Anonymous||reply 94||06/20/2013|
Oh my my my! Well now the ignorant bigoted hatred hurled at Serena must also be hurled at the teenage girl's parents. They are supporting Serena so they are endorsing rape. Go ahead Data Lounge time to turn on the outrage. How dare they. They're probably "mulattos" passing for white. How dare they.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||06/20/2013|
She just sucked up to them because of the bad PR. She lied and made out as if Rolling Stone misconstrued her comments (I believe the journalist who says that he has it on tape).
You know that she still really believes what she said.
|by Anonymous||reply 96||06/20/2013|
Why oh why, r95, do you have to misconstrue anyone's criticism of SW's "she was drunk, and probably not a virgin" argument as a bigoted attack on SW because of her colour??? You know that's NOT what's happening. SW fucked up—she even apologised for saying what she said, for goodness sake, which is basically like saying that those of us who took her to task for what she said were right to do so.
As for the victim's parents' statement—they seem to be happy with SW's "updated comments," and seem especially convinced of SW's nascent third-wave feminist credentials. You just know there were lots of lawyers working on that statement.
What I find truly glorious, though, is the final salvo: "...but more importantly [we'll be watching] her advance the cause of rape victims who are never to blame." I suspect the victim's parents' lawyers won that round, and I'm proud of them.
|by Anonymous||reply 97||06/20/2013|
Serena's grovelling apology speaks volumes. Not about Serena herself, but about how pissed off her sponsors are. Nike said 'jump' and Serena said 'how high?'
|by Anonymous||reply 98||06/20/2013|
It was just an opinion on a case and what she said has validity. It may not be PC but it's correct. You cannot prevent most crimes, but we do what we can to make it less likely, like locking our doors, being alert if we're walking out at night and not getting yourself plastered with a bunch of jocks. And even my 16 year old self was highly aware that lots of jocks acted like assholes sober much less drunk.
|by Anonymous||reply 99||06/20/2013|
r94, what about Lebron, Oprah or Hillary? Is it creepy as well? Some people just achieve a level of fame and familiarity that leads to this. If I say Clinton, people won't know which one we're talking about.
|by Anonymous||reply 100||06/20/2013|
r99 got it.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||06/20/2013|
The women of The View weigh in and it's as horrifying as you can imagine.
|by Anonymous||reply 102||06/20/2013|
What is so wrong with people that they can't see that, drunk or not, the victim was subjected to indescribable and heinous violence? I find it particularly worrying when the "she should have been more careful" line of argument is used, or excused in people who use it. If anyone's not aware of what actually happened to the poor victim, here's a recap (from Wikipedia, where appropriate footnotes are provided):
[quote]The evidence presented in court mainly consisted of hundreds of text messages and cellphone pictures that had been taken by more than a dozen people at the parties and afterwards traded with other students and posted to social media sites such as Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube, and which were described by the judge as "profane and ugly." In a photograph posted on Instagram by a Steubenville High football player, the victim was shown looking unresponsive, being carried by two teenage boys by her wrists and ankles. Former Steubenville baseball player Michael Nodianos tweeted "Song of the night is definitely Rape Me by Nirvana" and "Some people deserve to be peed on," which was reshared later by several people, including Mays. In a 12-minute video later posted to YouTube, Nodianos and others talk about the rapes, with Nodianos joking that "they raped her quicker than Mike Tyson raped that one girl" and "They peed on her. That's how you know she's dead, because someone pissed on her." In one text, Mays described the victim as "like a dead body" and in another he told the victim that a photo of her lying naked in a basement with semen on her body had been taken by him, and that the semen was his. In a text message to a friend afterwards, he said "I shoulda raped her now that everybody thinks I did," but "she wasn't awake enough." One classmate testified he videotaped with his phone while Mays exposed the victim's breasts and penetrated her with his fingers in the backseat of a car, and another testified he saw Richmond digitally penetrate the victim while she lay in the basement.
Serena Williams should be ashamed of herself (her apology sounded almost worse than her original statements), as should anyone justifying her line of argument, considering what happened that night.
|by Anonymous||reply 103||06/20/2013|
steroids have gone to her brain
|by Anonymous||reply 104||06/20/2013|
Serena is getting up in years, she needs to start thinking Flo Jo.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||06/20/2013|