Serving up this steaming pile of
Celebrity Gossip
Gay Politics
Gay News
and Pointless Bitchery
Since 1995

Now that we know our government is spying and lying, what do we do?

First, Fast and Furious.

Next, Benghazi.

Then, the IRS and AP.

Now, the wiretapping of all communication via Verizon, AT&T, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo...

When do we draw the line and decide our government is corrupt, evil and needs to be abolished? The Founding Fathers took up arms for less egregious affronts, but now people are too entertained by "Panem et Circenses" to care.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 17312/10/2014

We know this just now, OP? Really? Did you sleep through the passage of the Patriot Act and creation of the FISA Court? The ACLU and just about everyone screaming Orwell had been warning the wingnuts under Bush about it but they were called anti-American and terrorist sympathizers.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 306/07/2013

Mary!!!

I thought we already knew that... I guess I just assumed wrong

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 406/07/2013

[quote]First, Fast and Furious.

Non-scandal. Program started under Bush. Stupid and silly.

[quote]Next, Benghazi.

Again, not a scandal. Bullshit from GOP trying to manufacture a scandal.

[quote]Then, the IRS and AP.

Again, not scandals. Certainly not ones that reach Obama, or anywhere close.

OP = freeper moron, repeating GOP talking points (aka "lies").

Ignore this idiot.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 506/07/2013

Thank you R3. I personally knew of several anti-war activist friends of mine who were questioned by the FBI back before the invasion of Iraq. I was in college in "liberal" California and had to put up with a lot of crap for being anti-war and daring to question the government. If the majority of America didn't care back during W, they're not gonna start caring now that there are so many more distractions.

And besides the NSA is a shadowy agency that's been around for decades. This unfortunately ain't new. It's depressing and maybe I've become a pessimist, but I don't think there's anything we can do.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 606/07/2013

This is all Bush's fault. Once Obama got into office he really had no choice but to continue to expand and ramp up these types of programs or he would be called "soft on terrorism." Now it's all too easy to "blame it on the black man" not once but twice over (Obama and Holder).

Personally I would trust Obama with my life and if he wants to put video cameras in every room of my house and record my intimate moments I have no problem with that. Hell, me and half of the rest of America puts our most intimate moments on XTube so what's the big fuss about privacy all the sudden.

I hope someone like Bradley Manning comes along and releases every American's internet and phone data to the public so all of our secrets are out in the open once and for all. It would be a healthier society. (No more closet cases for one thing).

But if you do have a problem and want to blame someone, blame Bush not Obama. Bush started all of this and made it impossible for his success or not to continue and escalate these techniques.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 706/07/2013

We will follow the British example and watch as it happens live.

The vocal majority is made up of retirees who fear vague threats of terrorism more than a loss of their civil liberties.

This country is still far right of center. As the pendulum swings back, many Democrats will find themselves on the conservative side - not terrible, just surprising.

This baby boom generation has turned into a vile beast.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 806/07/2013

Is OP our retarded Libertarian troll? Just curious.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 906/07/2013

Bush started all of this after 9/11. How is anyone surprised. I gave up that notion of privacy about 10 years ago when Freepers and Frous voted the guy back in for a second round.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 1006/07/2013

r7 this is where you and I (and a lot of principle liberals) disagree. Bush is to blame and so is Obama. Obama is not the principled Constitutional scholar that he has lead many to believe. In 2007, this is what candidate Obama said:

[quote]"This Administration acts like violating civil liberties is the way to enhance our security."

You say you trust Obama with your life. Do you trust someone like Chris Christie or (god forbid) Ted Cruz with the same policies created by Bush and continued by Obama?

Presidents only serve a max of 8 years. But the policies they enact will certainly outlive any presidency.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 1206/07/2013

What do we do?

Pay our fucking taxes and carry on.

Fucking freeper.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 1306/07/2013

2007 Homeland Security Act under Bush.

Stop trying to make this about Obama.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 1406/07/2013

OP and R1 are DL's resident Freeptards

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 1506/07/2013

I've got a friend who's set up a server that can't be spied on and we

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 1706/07/2013

[quote] Do you trust someone like Chris Christie or (god forbid) Ted Cruz with the same policies created by Bush and continued by Obama?

I've got nothing to be afraid of from any of them, R12. I'm not a criminal and my business is quite literally all out on the internet for everyone to see and enjoy! (in very explicit detail) Privacy is overrated. What can they do to me?

Obama's got us this far - I'm not gonna start questioning him now. The man knows what he's doing and we're better off letting him do his job than second guessing his every move.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 1806/07/2013

Mentioning Fast and Furious gave you away, OP.

Troll back to Foxnews.com

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 1906/07/2013

[bold]WHY THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE SURPRISED ABOUT THIS???[/bold] We knew they were hoovering up phone calls & internet traffic 8 years ago.

Michelle Malkin weighed in today - the reason it was okay when Bush did it & not okay when Obama does it? Bush was "committed" to the War on Terror(TM) and Obama is not. Nice to know how the wingnuts are going to parse this.

They need to get rid of the PATRIOT act, and all the crap they instituted after 9/11. It'll never happen, of course.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 2006/07/2013

Uh Oh what happened to r17?

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 2106/07/2013

What R18 said.

Shut the fuck up otherwise.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 2206/07/2013

r20 no one is surprised except OP and others who want to convince this is a novel idea created by the Obama Admin.

r18 you sound exactly like the 10% remaining Bush supporters who were defending the Patriot Act and the FISA Court. That is the same logic/reasoning they used to kill dissent.

The envelope will getting pushed under the next Admin, regardless of the political parties. Once you unleash something like this, you can not hold it back. The technology is out there and it will be push further and further.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 2306/07/2013

The anti-government troll is right on time, I see. In her world, corrupt corporations out-evil anything our elected government ever does.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 2406/07/2013

Obama has been forced to keep all these laws and prisons. He is powerless against the freepers in congress.

We must replace the freepers in congress in order to get his agenda passed.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 2506/07/2013

R16, 99.9% of everything is hackable.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 2606/07/2013

The thing is even if I had an idea of what to do about all of this I couldn't write about it here now could I? Seeing as how they are spying on every little things we say and do it would not be wise.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 2706/07/2013

I don't understand why anyone who criticizes the Obama administration - and points out the obvious - his track record on civil liberties is not great - must be some kind of conservative nut case. Considering the fact that the surveillance was done in secret I don’t see how you make the claim if Obama had not continued the surveillance he would have been called soft on terrorism. The aftermath of the Benghazi attack where the White House lied about what had happened is a scandal. I suspect it will be the end of Hillary Clinton’s hopes to be President. Just because a President is slightly left of center – doesn’t mean those of us who consider ourselves to be progressives or liberals must worship him or her. For those of you who think you have nothing to hide and your personal life is already a matter of public record – I suggest you spend a little time on google. Start with The Innocence Project – look at the number of people wrongly convicted and doing jail time that have had their convictions overturned because they are innocent. In other words just because you have done nothing wrong doesn’t mean you won’t land in jail.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 2806/07/2013

R28's tinfoil underwear is on a bit too tight today.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 2906/07/2013

r28 you started out okay, then descended into the conspiracy nuts we all love to hate.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 3006/07/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 3106/07/2013

Because r28 all these problems are so complex they did not begin with Obama the blame that can be attributed to him is more along the lines of what he is not doing. He is not protecting the US citizen or the Constitution. Most everything else was set in place long before he got into office.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 3206/07/2013

Who's to blame?

Reagan.

Many of you probably don't remember that Reagan broke up the telephone company in 1984. No one knew at the time that Reagan's reason for doing this was not (as he so glibly put it) to save the American people money by breaking up AT&T's monopoly. It was so that the government could tap phone lines any time it wanted.

What did phone lines carry as of 1984? Telegraphs, money wires, computer signals...AND phone calls. What do these same lines carry today? The mind reels. And the government has access to it all, thanks to the Reagan-Bush administration.

Obama was in bed with the Bush dynasty all along. All he had to do was agree to continue Bush's policies upon election. And that, by God, is what Obama has done. You might say it's the only promise he has ever kept during his time in office.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 3306/07/2013

The OP sounds like a freeper by starting with Fast and Furious and Benghazi.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 3406/07/2013

OP, a Democrat is president. So people on DL are going to be in favor of this.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 3506/07/2013

R34 loves Big Brother.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 3606/07/2013

This is the only real scandal IMO, among the other shit OP posted.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 3706/07/2013

Obama is the messiah. Question not our great leader!

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 3806/07/2013

Not in favor of Big Brother, but spare me the concern freeper. You loved this under Bush and Cheney.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 3906/07/2013

"We must replace the freepers in congress in order to get his agenda passed."

Did you watch his speech? This IS his agenda. He made that perfectly clear.

He says we can't have privacy and security. The same thing the GOP said when passing the patriot act.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 4006/07/2013

" You loved this under Bush and Cheney." And you hated it under Bush/ Cheney? right?

You're both idiots.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 4106/07/2013

"OP, pissed as hell."

And doing everything he can to confront this injustice by ranting on DL.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 4206/07/2013

So will we be able to request a copy of our records some day? Isn't there a law after so many ears information becomes public?

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 4306/07/2013

I was against the Patriot act when it was signed under Bush

One of the positive things about Obama was that he stated that he was opposed to this type of mass invasion of privacy during his campaign.

PRISM was created in mid 2008 (under Bush) but has expanded rapidly under Obama

How can any liberal who was opposed to the Patriot Act not be horrified by this?

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 4406/07/2013

We voted for this

[quote]Bush “puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand. I will provide our intelligence and law-enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom,” Obama said in an Aug. 1, 2007 speech in Washington.

and

[quote]“This administration (Bush) acts like violating civil liberties is the way to enhance our security. It is not. There are no short-cuts to protecting America", Obama said

and we got PRISM and an expansion in the indiscriminate capture of phone call dats

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 4506/07/2013

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 4606/07/2013

That's why OP you must vote democrat from now on.

It's your fault we're in this mess to begin with.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 4706/07/2013

It is way beyond the two individuals, Barack Obama and George Bush. When it comes to major policies, like this, and militarism, and globalism, there is NO difference between the two parties. It is beyond the US. Democracy is fragile worldwide. Political parties are corrupt and there is no real choice, no genuine voice for the people.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 4806/07/2013

R48 is right.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 4906/07/2013

I barely know where to start, so I'll go with R48-

You get it- there is no diff between R and D. They are both at the whim of their bankster/corporate/military overseers. Obama=Bush =Clinton=Reagan.

To the rest that want to give Obama carte blanche to spy on us- when the next Republican takes office and uses the IRS, BATF, NSA and CIA to imprison, harass or murder you then I hope you remember how you supported this policy today, and that you get what you deserve.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 5006/07/2013

OP is beyond stupid. Patriot Act anyone? For some reason republicans didn't care as long as the war criminal was still in charge. Too busy masturbating on their guns I guess, thinking that guns guarantee freedom. Such a handy distraction while freedom is taken away right under their noses.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 5106/07/2013

I live in a state where Republicans took over control of the General Assembly in the 2010 midterms. And in two years, the changes they've produced have been drastic and far-reaching. Medicare cuts, education cuts, unemployment benefits cuts, end of early voting, gay marriage ban, hydraulic fracturing, anti-abortion laws, and just this week they overturned a bill meant to account for the state's history of racial bias in execution sentences (this is in the south)

So yes, there are indeed differences between the two parties.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 5206/07/2013

Every single person, in every email, text, or phone call, should say something about how their friend's dog 'terrorized' you or how a film is a real 'bomb', or use some other key word that will set their radar flashing. There would be so many millions of red flags that the system would be rendered useless.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 5306/07/2013

[quote]OP is beyond stupid. Patriot Act anyone? For some reason republicans didn't care as long as the war criminal was still in charge

So R51, you were in favor of the Patriot Act both under Bush and Obama?

Or are you strongly opposed to it now but just didn't mention that in your rant?

Or are you beyond stupid too?

I'm better on the last choice

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 5406/07/2013

[quote]Is OP our retarded Libertarian troll? Just curious.

Yup. But like the broken watch that's right exactly twice a day, he's right on this one.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 5506/07/2013

"What do we do?

Well, when posting a Craigslist ad you might want to avoid phrases like "I want to be on the bottom of a big train and watch everybody blow all over me."

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 5606/07/2013

Of course we can blame Obama - although attacks on our civil liberties started during the Bush administration after 9/11 they were intentionally continued under the Obama administration.

For example the NDAA of 2013 which Obama signed permits the military to detain American citizens without charges, let alone a trial. Both Diane Feinstein and Rand Paul objected to sections of the bill. President Obama didn't.

I also don't see how pointing out innocent people who have nothing to hide find themselves in legal trouble is a conspiracy theory. We have an adversarial judicial system. Prosecutors aggressively prosecute and defense lawyers aggressively defend. Sometimes the innocent are caught in the middle.

It happens, your foolish to think it doesn't.

I think Obama is much better for this country then McCain or Romney would have been. I also think a Democratic majority is better than a Republican majority in state or federal legislative branches.

But that doesn't mean I think Obama and the Democrats can do no wrong - or that I need to keep my mouth shut when they do.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 5706/07/2013

That's exactly what we all should do, R56. Overwhelm their silly system and render it useless.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 5806/07/2013

R54 Actually I don't give a shit about how Americans mess up their country. I was merely pointing out the hypocracy, ignorance and naivety of certain people.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 5906/07/2013

Bush, Obama, it doesn't matter who's president. This is just government doing what it always does, and why the US was originally founded on principles in an attempt to restrain it. Unfortunately, We The Sheeple just don't care anymore.

However, ask anyone in China how they like their benevolent Big Brother. That's a picnic compared to where we'll be by the time some folks wake up.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 6006/07/2013

Ciaran---you done pissed me the hell off!

[quote]That's exactly what we all should do, [R56]. Overwhelm their silly system and render it useless.

Do you really think that a million (or billion) "false flag" posts would trip them up?

These people have access to every minute bit in your life- even though you live in the UK- they still sniff it. I suspect that people in India, China and Brazil (plus, well, all states) are on the radar.

The revelation that the NSA built back doors into Windows98 shouldn't scare you at all.

Ciaran, I used to like you, but the fact that you would support a fascist state like this makes me sick. I cannot imagine someone who claims to love civil liberty and individual freedom can say what you said.

I really hate you now.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 6106/07/2013

Did he say he supported it? Seemed to me he was making a lighthearted comment.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 6206/07/2013

[italic]Who's to blame?

Reagan.

Many of you probably don't remember that Reagan broke up the telephone company in 1984. No one knew at the time that Reagan's reason for doing this was not (as he so glibly put it) to save the American people money by breaking up AT&T's monopoly. It was so that the government could tap phone lines any time it wanted.

What did phone lines carry as of 1984? Telegraphs, money wires, computer signals...AND phone calls. What do these same lines carry today? The mind reels. And the government has access to it all, thanks to the Reagan-Bush administration.

Obama was in bed with the Bush dynasty all along. All he had to do was agree to continue Bush's policies upon election. And that, by God, is what Obama has done. You might say it's the only promise he has ever kept during his time in office.[/italic]

link.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 6306/07/2013

And now we are preparing for cyberwarfare. Obama has ordered security agencies to draw up a list of potential targets. Just tweeted by CNN a couple minutes ago.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 6406/07/2013

r33, Tim Wirth was responsible for the break up of telecommunications. And you don't get more liberal than Wirth.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 6506/07/2013

wouldn't that have already been hacked and read by the potential target(s)

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 6606/07/2013

Oh, Christ. OP is posting drivel from Economic Policy Journal.

Libertarian Idiot alert!

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 6806/07/2013

[quote]Tim Wirth was responsible for the break up of telecommunications. And you don't get more liberal than Wirth.

Tim Wirth? Nope.

[quote]The Breakup of AT&T In 1982, AT&T and the Department of Justice settled the antitrust case against AT&T. AT&T agreed to break itself up into several firms in 1984. One firm, AT&T, provided long-distance service, and seven other firms ("Baby Bells") provided local telephone service in different regions. The Department of Justice apparently felt that a vertically integrated telephone company, one that provided local and long-distance service, was not required for productive efficiency, or that there were other offsetting gains from the divestiture.

According to the Department of Justice, the vertical structure of the company provided an opportunity for unfair competition against other providers of long-distance service. For example, by charging high local rates or by providing poor local service to other providers of long-distance service (which require local service), AT&T could harm long-distance competitors. Another concern of the Department of Justice was the difficulty of monitoring cost-shifting among AT&T's regulated (telephone) and other relatively unregulated businesses (such as the manufacture of telephones and other equipment). The resulting breakup of the telephone company presumably mitigated the government's concerns.

Since 1984, the technology and industry structure have changed rapidly. By 2000, there are likely to be only four local phone companies from the Baby Bells remaining, as a result of mergers among the original seven firms. Moreover, there are now several national long-distance carriers that also provide local service.

Source: Lavey and Carlton (1983). See also Noll and Owen (1994).

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 6906/07/2013

R68 is scared that people might read EPJ and see through the govloving, quasifascist ideology of this board.

Really- read the info at the link and decide whether it is "bullshit" or "drivel", or that perhaps it helps explain why giving trillions to the big banks HURT THE BOTTOM 99%!!

Anyone who spends an hour reading the link will finally wake up and understand why Obama=Bu$h and why we need to get rid of DC.

People like R57 and her ilk can't understand that a person can hate Bu$h and Obama equally. They are both tools of the corporate elite.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 7006/07/2013

Could someone clear something up for me please? Why is it more important for the government to spy on us in every way possible than it is for them to figure out all the bullshit China is doing such as hacking into corporations stealing intellectual property which from what I understand includes plans for weaponry.

I mean what the fuck could I possibly say or any of us possibly say that has as much significance as that? I honestly think whoever has orchestrated this is a fool. Sure use all that energy and valuable resources to spy on average citizens when China is busy stealing our innovations and a whole other bunch of shit.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 7106/07/2013

Here is a link, from 1999, that shows that Win98 had a backdoor to the NSA.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 7206/07/2013

"govloving", R70? Speak English, moron.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 7306/07/2013

"Why is it more important for the government to spy on us in every way possible"

Technically speaking, they aren't spying on us in every way possible. Stop exaggerating.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 7406/08/2013

That you know of now, R74. Two days ago you didn't know they were collecting all your phone call metadata.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 7506/08/2013

[quote]Personally I would trust Obama with my life and if he wants to put video cameras in every room of my house and record my intimate moments I have no problem with that.

You're a fucking idiot. You're probably the one who wanted to open your house to annual police inspection to make sure you don't have any girls chained up in your basement.

And I don't believe for a second you put anything of interest on "xtube", because your mom clearly has your balls in a jar on a shelf you can't reach.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 7606/08/2013

PRISM Stopped Najibullah Zazi From Blowing Up Backpacks in the Subway By Dan Amira

"I think it’s important to recognize that you can’t have a hundred percent security and also then have a hundred percent privacy and zero inconvenience," President Obama said earlier today. "You know, we’re going to have to make some choices as a society."

The problem is that it's not easy to weigh those choices when the relevant information is secret: We know that our privacy is being violated to some degree, but we have no idea whether these violations are worth it because we're not aware of the NSA's successes. Consequently, the debate over the NSA's spy programs has been fairly one-sided.

But amid all the uproar yesterday and today, a report from CBS's John Miller — formerly of the FBI and a fairly plugged-in guy — went largely unnoticed. It contains the first specific details about a terror plot that PRISM (the program that spies on the online communications of foreigners) helped to prevent. The name Najibullah Zazi may ring a bell — he's the guy who wanted to blow up the subway in 2009.

"If you look at the Najibullah Zazi case, you have a classic example there. So on September 6, 2009, around dawn, an e-mail comes from an IP address to another IP address. One of them is nothing we're paying attention to. The other is one that has been flagged as an al Qaeda mail drop that is rarely used."

"And so when that bell rings, they say, 'Hey, they hardly ever use this account, but it's associated with Rashid Rauf, who is al Qaeda's master bomb maker, behind the plot to blow up all the airplanes, 'Who's he talking to?' And when they find out the other IP address on the other end resolves to Aurora, Colo., outside Denver, it connects them to Zazi, it takes them to the plot to blow up the New York subways, it's all prevented. That's how a program like this is supposed to work."

Reuters sources — possibly the same sources as Miller's, who knows — also confirmed today that PRISM tipped off authorities to Zazi:

A secret U.S. intelligence program to collect emails that is at the heart of an uproar over government surveillance helped foil an Islamist militant plot to bomb the New York City subway system in 2009, U.S. government sources said on Friday.

The sources said Representative Mike Rogers, chairman of the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee, was talking about a plot hatched by Najibullah Zazi, an Afghan-born U.S. resident, when he said on Thursday that such surveillance had helped thwart a significant terrorist plot in recent years.

For what it's worth, the Telegraph has previously reported that Scotland Yard intercepted the e-mail, however, the U.K. reportedly also has access to PRISM.*

Zazi's plot against New York's subways was not merely aspirational, as the FBI has detailed. He had the explosives. He drove to New York.

As set forth in the government’s detention memorandum filed earlier in the case, in July and August 2009, Zazi purchased large quantities of components necessary to produce TATP and twice checked into a hotel room near Denver, where bomb making residue was later found.

On Sept. 8, 2009, Zazi rented a car and drove from Denver to New York, taking with him the explosives and other materials necessary to build the bombs. Zazi arrived in New York City on Thursday, Sept.10, 2009. Zazi and others intended to obtain and assemble the remaining components of the bombs over the weekend and conduct the attack on Manhattan subway lines on Sept. 14, Sept. 15, or Sept. 16, 2009. However, shortly after arriving in New York, Zazi realized that law enforcement was investigating his activities.

Zazi was stopped before he could carry out his attack and now faces life in prison. So ... is PRISM worth it?

*This sentence has been updated with new information.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 7706/08/2013

Honestly with social media, internet and computers it was inevitable.

They need to do that to sniff out patters. A high tech way of investigation. No one would complain if they stopped the next Boston bomber.

What is the government supposed to do? Let people like that use the latest technology while we just sit back and say gee, sorry, we didn't want to pry.

Not saying its right or American, just saying they have to do it regardless of who is in charge. I am sure the presidential briefing you get when you first walk into office from the CIA FBI and Military is quite a shocker. We don't know what they are being told. Or how dangerous the world really is.

now, go shopping.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 7806/08/2013

Mass communication tapping is like torture. Theoretically viable, but practically useless.

You still need what the US government has been slow to do: accurate cultural and human intelligence on the ground.

They are so far behind, they end up recruiting people as assets without proper vetting and follow up (electronic and human intel). Then it backfires when the people aren't really turned (like the Boston Bombers).

Even the UK is faltering. They have the whole country CCTV'd and tapped up the ying, but two known Islamic radicals who associate with a violence-spewing cleric end up on a car and machete rampage in the heart of London.

Smoke and mirrors, people.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 7906/08/2013

Well considering how long it takes me to renew my license at the DMV, I am not too worried about them finding anything in my email.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 8006/08/2013

As a wise man said on Maher tonight, "we have given up our freedom for security".

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 8106/08/2013

lumping "fast and furious" and banghazi with the Verizon story reveals the op to be an idiot.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 8206/08/2013

WE did not give up anything for our security, it was given up for us by a Congress that was cowed into blindly signing the patriot act.

I do have a suggestion on what we can do about them spying on us. My idea was prompted in part by the news that Ramirez NightStalker died and thinking about the behavior of those types of fucked up individuals.

It has been documented that it is easier for psychos to do the unspeakable to you if they turn you into an object. If you are labeled as basically a thing not a person then they can do what ever they want to you because there is no personal connection. They feel nothing because you are nothing.

So my suggestion is this, we become better people and in our communications we be as humane as possible. If they are really listening then they have to take in at least a bit of whatever we are communicating about. So make it good. Make it hard for them to dismiss our humanity and maybe in turn we will bring out the humanity in them and maybe there will be less and less people willing to harm a fellow man/woman because they will feel like they are also hurting themselves.

Yeah, that's all I got. We need to be better people, undeniably so. Cause otherwise we are potentially looking at some pretty gruesome life ahead of us.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 8306/08/2013

R67, you are a complete moron. How is CCTV spying on people? If you go out into the public, have sex or committ a crime and are caught by CCTV, would you say that this restricted your freedom? I'm glad they have those things all around London and in the underground because it makes those places safer. It's the people who want that security, you dimwit. Just like no one wants people running around with guns here. In Switzerland citizens inititated stricter gun laws because they wanted more safety.

Meanwhile in the USA you are perfectly fine with religious organisations influencing what your can and can't see on tv at what time of the day, you accept lobbies ruling your healthcare and justice system and jeopardizing your safety by blocking every attempt at sensible gun control, are fine with credit card companies owning you, are okay with the government monitoring you, are fine with censorship of the internet in many public institutes like schools, libraries and universities but CCTV that is actually an effective method to make public places saver and wanted by the people, nooooo, you can't have that. That would be a restriction of your freedom.

So please bitch, stop pretending as if Americans are free and don't accept actual restirction of their freedom that only lobbies and politicians profite from and act as if actual sensible security measures in other countries are the ultimate loss of freedom.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 8406/08/2013

R71 You know what's ironic? The USA has been doing the same to other countries. They have been spying on German industry since forever so don't complain when others do it to you.

And I doubt the government gives a shit about what Americans write and say. Most people are unimportant and insignificant so do you really think they will randomly look at your shit? Are you that narcissistic to think your are of any interest to them?

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 8506/08/2013

The FACT of the matter is, there's a reason the bombing in Boston (which was carried out by amateurs) was the first terrorist attack on US soils in 12 years. Unfortunately, the more the government infringes on our rights, the safer we are. "Where do we draw the line?" is a great question; however, 100% of the people asking it would be the first to hem and haw if an attack on the scale of 9/11 were to occur again.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 8606/08/2013

Makes you wonder why the US government could only find $15 million to investigate 9/11 and why they imposed such an early deadline on the 9/11 Commission to present its "Final Report" when we seem to have a bottomless budget and decades to devote to everything else terror-related.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 8706/08/2013

Because Bush would have been embarrassed and humiliated.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 8806/08/2013

R85, you and others miss the point. The "looking" at you is done by computers who have infinite time and patience. They don't get bored with you and are not influenced by your humanity, for good or bad. If your behavior matches any suspicious pattern, you're flagged for closer scrutiny.

And what people also don't get is the more we accept, the more the government dares to try. They may not be flagging you just for terrorist patterns but for behavior that they consider threats, such as what political blogs you read or ebooks you download. Don't be fooled into thinking this technology won't be used for "thought policing."

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 8906/08/2013

R89 No, we get the point. The government is not looking at you, it's computers and who cares of computers look at you? Humans will only take a look at your shit if you are being connected with a terrorist, criminal or whatever. Every law, rule or security measure brings with it the potential of abuse. If you want to eliminate that potential you need anarchy I think it is clear which option is more desirable.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 9006/08/2013

I still love you, Ciaran. I got the joke. So many humorless Marys out today.

People, The Man been spying on you since before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye. Deal.

Now that you have finally been bitch-slapped into reality, welcome to The Day and Age.

If you post under your name on FB (which many idiots do) they're watching. You Google, they're watching. Use Windows? They're watching? Use that damned cell phone constantly? They're listening.

Get off the fucking grid!

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 9106/08/2013

The leaked information claims the NSA is looking at two degrees of separation.

For all you who think you have nothing to fear because you aren't doing anything illegal.

Just hope that a friend of a friend isn't doing anything illegal.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 9206/08/2013

Keep telling yourself that R90, but you're making it all up. In fact, the government has NEVER said that it was limiting its surveillance and in fact, there are over 100,000 people employed in the NSA, and they wouldn't need all those people for the kind of operation you describe.

The government has ALWAYS been lying and spying. What's happened since the Bush era is the return of the stuff that they pretended to stop in the 1970s: provocateurs, spies in domestic organizations, politically oriented involvement.

Of course this has always been true (Billy Graham's first stadium sized evangelical campaign was a BOND DR(IVE sponsored by the military, who also sponsored his overseas Youth in Christ efforts that started the evangelical political movement worldwide. It was NEVER a grassroots thing).

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 9306/08/2013

R93

The response of Democrats (not real liberals) on this subject makes me glad I gave up on both parties.

They are moronic, partisan, short-sighted beasts of burden, useful idiots of their masters, and would support anything "THEIR" prez said. The same goes for both parties.

I hate them all.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 9406/08/2013

You are an idiot R94/ OP

It's people like you who rather stay home than actually go out and vote that has taken us to this point.

You want change, but you don't move one finger to create it.

And don't fucking make that face cunt like you don't know what I'm talking about.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 9506/08/2013

"It's people like you who rather stay home than actually go out and vote that has taken us to this point. "

Voting is useless. People who are not of the typical republican/democrat regime don't stand a chance. Look at how Ron Paul has been ostracized by BOTH parties because he is against the war(s).

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 9606/08/2013

OP, ever heard of the Kentucky Resolutions? The Alien & Sedition Act? The "XYZ" Affair? Well, look then up. Our Government has been spying and lying for a long time.

I guess we'll do what we have been doing over all those years. We'll raise hell, pressure Congress to increase their oversight, bring law suits when appropriate, and then we will put up with it.

Because in our every day lives, we won't even notice the difference, and we all believe to varying degrees, that if it doesn't directly affect us, and we personally aren't doing anything "wrong," it doesn't matter.

We tend to only react when something directly affects us in a very tangible way, not in some vague way. We can be relied upon to do nothing, as long as everything "seems" normal in our everyday lives.

If one thing inconveniences us, like the state putting a lien on our bank accounts, or our credit cards get frozen and we can't use them, or our boss calls us into his office to tell us the Police were there asking about us, if something or someone throws a wrench into our personal lives, we will react. And not a minute before.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 9706/08/2013

R96-

It's sad to watch them rant and rave, too ignorant to know that both parties are bought and paid for.

Ron Paul's legacy scares them, since it means a diminution of central power, and a reversion of power to the states.

Hopefully once the Federal Reserve destroys the dollar then it will be a quick death of DC. It won't be too long at the rate their counterfeiting...I mean printing dollars.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 9806/08/2013

[quote]Ron Paul's legacy scares them

Nah, just his batshit crazy economic policies, along with his hypocrisy.

[quote]since it means a diminution of central power, and a reversion of power to the states.

Yes, because a President has the power to do that singlehandedly. Oh, wait....

[quote]Hopefully once the Federal Reserve destroys the dollar

That's been predicted for about a century. Ron Paul has been predicting it for decades. Shouldn't that have happened by now?

[quote]then it will be a quick death of DC. It won't be too long at the rate their counterfeiting...I mean printing dollars.

So you've been saying for years. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong? You remind me of the folks waiting for the Rapture, which is not an inapt comparison, considering that your economic philosophy is a religion to you in all but name.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 9906/09/2013

hehe... R98 got scared. You're so transparent.

Btw OP you have bigger problems than worrying about politics, that in the end will not affect you one bit. However your health is another matter. You're compulsive and have been reckless to your own body for so long. I mean why? Why can you stop for one bit and listen to your body? If you fall ill you'll regret it, and it'll be painful. Make a change in your life.

Bitch at R96 Ron Paul? You mean the guy who thinks you're NOTHING? Why would you give a fuck about someone who HATES you?

Where's your dignity? I mean love yourself a little bit you doormat.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 10006/09/2013

R100

Paragraphs, punctuation, and proper sentences are your friend. Learning how to properly use them makes your manager at McDonalds smile.

You make no sense and therefore provide ample evidence that government schools are failing and need to be abolished.

If DC would say "hey, we give up and all gov functions are returned to the states, and money is converted at the current gold price" then our current "Greater Depression" would end quickly.

Instead we are going to bail out the banks and big corporations until the "little people" revolt.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 10106/09/2013

This is too confusing. Can't we go back to talking about Madonna and clothes?

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 10206/09/2013

[quote]R68 is scared that people might read EPJ and see through the govloving, quasifascist ideology of this board.

R70 - Why. Are. You. Here?

What possible reason could an avowed moron like you have for being on the DL?

Have you been run off of every other site on the internet due to your extraordinary fuckwittery?

Do tell, dear.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 10306/09/2013

R102

Damn, I wish!!!

That's the problem- people, even so-called "politically aware" people- get their "news" (aka daily dose of propaganda) from the TV (CNBCBSABCFox) and have no understanding of the bigger issues.

Hell, the people here (and I think at least 10% are savvy enough to see the "real world") still defend Obama while attacking Bush for doing the same goddamn things.

Vermont is close to having enough people to vote for a "secession" referendum that will pass.

The difference between 1860s and today- we have the goddamn INTERNET, and can cut through the bullshit!

I hope that in 10 years that PA, CA, GA, IA, LA, VA, WA (see what I did there?) will all be able to set their own health, education, immigration, safety, etc. policies so that they can innovate, experiment, and create a better model for taking care of the poorest and sickest members of our society.

I just know it can't be done by DC.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 10406/09/2013

Bush Co. didn't fully disclose on Valerie Plame. If the Bush administration did not cop to outing a CIA agent then Obama has nothing to apologize for.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 10506/09/2013

[quote]The difference between 1860s and today- we have the goddamn INTERNET, and can cut through the bullshit!

Is that because the internet is bullshit free?

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 10606/09/2013

R105-

This isn't Bush v. Obama, it's war to save US!

Imagine that in 12 years the Repubs take over, and drones are flying over your house, a tax return verification is required before you cash a check (just to make sure you don't owe Uncle Sam more money) and that you are arrested because you posted derogatory comment about president Bush3?

Why not stop it now- loudly clamor for Obama to leave office, and allow Biden to ascend.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 10706/09/2013

[quote]Vermont is close to having enough people to vote for a "secession" referendum that will pass.

Link please.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 10806/09/2013

No, R106

But at least we have access to things like Feynman, Rothbard, Mises, Tesla, and the real history of people like Ford, Vanderbit and most important- Keynes and Marx.

As an undergrad in the pseudopaleolithic (aka late 1980s!) it would've taken weeks of full time work for me examine the minutiae of (fx) Keynes vs. Rothbard, while now it only takes a few minutes to discover deep understanding of them both.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 10906/09/2013

Right you are, R104!

As you know, what the founders had in mind for the American experiment was for American citizens to have to go state-shopping for their rights.

They wrote the United States Constitution specifically banning any form of centralized federal government, oh no, wait...

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 11006/09/2013

Good GOD no, rR106!!!

Only after you have examined your own thoughts, beliefs and prejudices can you begin to find the truth.

I'm a euro multi-breed, raised on Jesus, familial love and Conway Twitty,

I spent my late teens to early 20s as an avowed Marxist socialist. Then I had a professor (God, he was hot) that was VERY liberal- far left of Obama- but exposed me to Rothbard and I saw the beauty and simplicity of Austrian Econ.

In the mid 2000s I warned all my friends and family that the housing bubble was forming since the FED didn't let the "tech bubble" deflate. By 2006 I was begging them to quit investing in housing, and when the bottom fell out in 2007? Well, now they want my advice.

The internet is great for finding things (like pron!) but unless you have a correct framework - Google Lew Rockwell and Bob Wenzel- then they will help you navigate.

Good Luck!!!

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 11106/09/2013

[quote]Google Lew Rockwell

I did. Sorry, I don't agree with him that drunk driving should be legal and video cameras should be banned so cops can beat people. He seems like a crackpot.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 11206/09/2013

The same Lew Rockwell that wrote this?

"Sarah Palin is smart, articulate, attractive, pro-life, and pro-gun, and was even a Buchananite in 1996. Her political career has been based on fighting Republican corruption. Her ratings as Alaska governor are very high. She has a compelling life story, as they say. Her husband is one-quarter Yupik Eskimo. They have five children, including one with Down's syndrome, whom they refused to abort. Palin will bring the whole Republican base home, and some Independent and Democratic women. Palin even blunts Hillary for 2012."

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 11306/09/2013

To the intelligent or more technical minded people on this thread . I was wanting some sort of privacy online.

https://duckduckgo.com/

Is this any good as an alternative search engine to google?

or are any of these any good for general privacy, anybody used or heard about them?

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 11406/09/2013

R115 They would do that? Man, universal healthcare is so much better.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 11606/09/2013

If you are not a terrorist why are you so worried about your privacy? It's a computer that monitors patterns. And why is anyone surprised at this? We live in a dangerous world. I don't want to worry about traveling into a major city and getting bombed for just being there.

The media directs these stories. The Republicans are giving it to them. We are so dumb.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 11706/09/2013

The issues that concern me the most are the wire tapping and of course the IRS fiasco.

Don't people realize that this administration is blowing open the door for other administrations to do even worse?

Most likely we will get a Republican president in 2016 (no choice after Obama's failed and embarssing Presidency). Be prepared for this future administration to do a full 180 degree turn on the type targeting and spying this one is doing. Liberal groups and charities etc. are all going to pay the price.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 11806/09/2013

[quote]Well, now they want my advice.

Oh, you mean like "Invest in gold because it's going to climb to $20,000 an ounce?" That kind of "advice?"

[quote]Vermont is close to having enough people to vote for a "secession" referendum that will pass.

Nope, sorry. Not going to happen.

[quote]If DC would say "hey, we give up and all gov functions are returned to the states, and money is converted at the current gold price" then our current "Greater Depression" would end quickly.

You do realize this is utter nonsense, right? Are you really that ignorant of history?

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 11906/09/2013

James Clapper, the director of US national intelligence, told NBC he has filed a "criminal report" with the Justice Department and the FBI to begin the probe into who leaked out the secret documents that last week blew the lid off the spy program known as “Prism.”

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 12006/09/2013

OP, don't worry. We're not that into you.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 12106/09/2013

[quote]back the fuck up or I will cut a nelly bitchboy!

Where? In mommy's basement?

Trust us. We know the only one down there is you.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 12206/09/2013

I have a feeling r117 wasn't saying this when Bush was starting the patriot act.

Cut the "republicans" crap. the us vs them mentality that people have is why they can do shit like this!

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 12306/09/2013

[quote]Vermont is close to having enough people to vote for a "secession" referendum that will pass.

You're a fucking liar.

[quote]At the 2004 and 2005 Town Meetings, the citizens of the ski resort community of Killington, Vermont voted in favor of pursuing secession from Vermont and admission into the state of New Hampshire, which lies 25 miles to the east.

It fucking happened in 2004.

The internet is NOT your friend, freeper cunt.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 12406/09/2013

"Bitch at [R96] Ron Paul? You mean the guy who thinks you're NOTHING? Why would you give a fuck about someone who HATES you? "

What the fuck?

Honey, he has the same opinion that Obama has when it comes to gay marriage. That STATES should decide.

You think Obama LOVES you???

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 12506/09/2013

R113-

You mean the guy that published this a few months later?

[quote]Unfortunately, instead of turning to Ron Paul, Sarah Palin has come under the spell of the neoconservative Bill Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard and "the punditocracy’s best-known neocon." And to make matters worse she now is attacking WikiLeaks and its director Julian Assange, who she says should be hunted down like a terrorist. She writes, “Why was he [Assange] not pursued with the same urgency we pursue al Qaeda and Taliban leaders?”

And has since published numerous articles attacking Palin as a warmongering whore for the Military?

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 12606/09/2013

R119 is the queen of assertions

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 12706/09/2013

[quote]You mean the guy that published this a few months later?

So he's wishy-washy and flip floppy? So much for sticking to principles.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 12806/09/2013

R123

I was excoriating Bu$h here long before 9/11 due to his general ignorance and his links to the CIA.

I wish the DL had a wayback machine so I could link to posts I made about Bush in 2000/01 prior to (and after) 9/11.

After 9/11 I was among the (very) few who called his actions with the PATRIOT (sic) Act and invasion of Iraq as treasonous attacks on liberty, and called for his impeachment. I got attacked on this board, but I was right.

I started reading Ron Paul's articles in the late 90s and could see that his predictions- a growing central government that had no respect for civil liberty or privacy, that the FED would print money to give to their bankster buddies, that our overseas excursions would result in a domestic police state- were already coming true prior to 9/11.

I also started buying gold coins (at +/- $250/oz) and made more money than anyone invested in the market circa 1998-9 has. My investments are up 600% (even with the pullback from 1900/oz) while the stock market, minus inflation, is flat. Google "Ron Paul civil liberty 199x" or "Ron Paul money 199x" or "Ron Paul foreign policy 199x" you will see that he understood what was happening WAY before 9/11.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 12906/09/2013

R127-

Don't I know it.

Anytime I post anything that calls for personal liberty and responsibility, or point out some evil thing our government is doing, she comes out and scolds and stamps her feet and acts like she knows anything.

She's an annoying twat, and I just ignore her.

I think she used to sign her name as "Paula" but now she knows people are ignoring her, so she stays anonymous.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 13006/09/2013

[quote]The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. - Ron Paul

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 13106/09/2013

R128-

At least Lew admitted he made a mistake.

The article you quote came out a few days after she was selected as VP, and her record was sketchy but seemed to be somewhat libertarian. The majority of articles about her on LewRockwell.com are far less flattering.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 13206/09/2013

R125-

It's sick, isn't it? When Ron Paul says gay marriage (or abortion, or gun control, etc.) should be left up to the states he's a rabid right winger, but when The Messiah says the same...silence.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 13306/09/2013

Former C.I.A. Worker Says He Leaked U.S. Surveillance Data:

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 13406/09/2013

[quote]You mean the guy that published this a few months later?

No hon, what you quoted was written by Donald Miller. What R113 quoted was written by Lew Rockwell.

Two different people. Capiche?

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 13506/09/2013

Hey OP: no response to my post at R124?

Call me out, bitch.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 13606/09/2013

R124-

if you were worth it, I would reply.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 13706/09/2013

R135-

LMGTFY

Read the links, all published by Lew about Palin.

None of them (past the first week after her announcement as VP candidate) have ANYTHING nice to say about her.

You picked one single article out of 53,500 Google results and used it to smear someone who is far more principled about liberty and the murder of innocent people than you.

Are all regressives this terminally stupid?

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 13806/09/2013

[quote]if you were worth it, I would reply.

Because I called you out on your shit?

If you're so goddamn certain about what you're posting then back it up when you get called on your lies.

Prove me wrong, cunt.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 13906/09/2013

[quote]I also started buying gold coins (at +/- $250/oz) and made more money than anyone invested in the market circa 1998-9 has.

*Shrug* So you got lucky and bought gold as it escalated into a bubble. The sad thing is that you *still* won't admit that it was, in fact, in a bubble and that, other than when it's climbing into a bubble, it's a lousy investment. Over the past 100 years, the stock market has vastly outperformed gold as an investment. Anyone who purchases gold as an investment today is a fool.

[quote]Google "Ron Paul money 199x"

Actually, Google Ron Paul gold standard or Ron Paul 198x or Ron Paul 197x and what you quickly realize is that he doesn't have the foggiest idea what he's talking about and that he's been wildly and consistently wrong for more than three decades, including two years ago when he confidently predicted hyperinflation of 50% or more.

[quote]Anytime I post anything that calls for personal liberty and responsibility, or point out some evil thing our government is doing, she comes out and scolds and stamps her feet and acts like she knows anything.

ROFL.... And yet, dear heart, you have been wholly unable to point to a single post of mine that was in any way incorrect. Not one. Why is that, dear?

[quote]I think she used to sign her name as "Paula" but now she knows people are ignoring her, so she stays anonymous.

Dear heart, I don't bother to sign my posts (anymore than you do) for the obvious reason that my style is easily recognizable. What's hilarious is that you insist that others adhere to standards that you yourself have never bothered to adhere to.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 14006/09/2013

[quote]R119 is the queen of assertions

So is the poster I was responding to, R127. Since he simply asserts his drivel without bothering to even try to support it (mostly because he can't), I do the same. Were he to actually try to support anything he asserts, I'd do the same. Until then, I'll continue to mock him for the stupidity.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 14106/09/2013

[quote]if you were worth it, I would reply.

ROFL.... Translation: "I got caught lying so I'll just try to evade and hope people don't notice."

Sorry, dear: we noticed.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 14206/09/2013

R40, the words deluded and pedantic were invented for you.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 14306/09/2013

Jeez, R134. This is the first I am seeing this. I feel badly for this man. I suspect he will disappear or be kidnapped and returned to the US.

I'd like to see lots of these employees come forward and start leaking like this man did. Then we need to protect these individuals against the liars like Clapper and these various intelligence agencies.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 14406/09/2013

Come on, pussy. Defend your shit.

You put it out there. Prove me wrong and I go away.

Pussy.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 14506/09/2013

I know, R144.

This guy has more balls than 99% of the people on earth, and 99.9% of the posters here.

They continue to lick the boots that trample them, as long as the guy kicking them is wearing a donkey pin.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 14606/09/2013

[quote]This guy has more balls than 99% of the people on earth, and 99.9% of the posters here.

Still waiting.

Show YOUR balls.

Pussy.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 14706/09/2013

The members of a peaceful freedom-fighting group want no part of neo-cons running the imperialistic U.S. government. Plan to secede from the U.S. gaining momentum in the fiercely independent Green Mountain state.

The neo-con band of criminals running Washington, trampling on civil rights at home and invading countries at will overseas, has led a large group of strong-minded Vermont freedom-fighters with no choice but to secede from the United States.

And last Friday at the state capital building in Montpelier, a historic independence convention was held, the first of its kind in the United States since May 20, 1861, when North Carolina decided to leave the Union.

A packed House Chamber in the Vermont statehouse, with more than 400 gathered, started the daylong secession convention with a speech by keynote James Howard Kunstler, author of The Long Emergency, and ended with a resolution passed to secede from the United States.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 14806/09/2013

OP, I don't necessarily agree with some (most) of your points but don't bother trying to debate with the dimwit who is responding to your posts.

He gets off debating on the smaller points while ignoring the bigger message - Obama ran on a platform to limit invasions like this into personal privacy and he has not delivered.

He thinks if he can find any weakness anywhere in any argument, then the entire argument is false. Why debate the main point when the counter point is indefensible; instead, debate a subpoint.

Of course, he presents few facts of his own. His favorite response is some variation of "no" with little or no substantiation (or links).

He is a sad old queen who gets off on this, probably someone with few or no friends (or else he wouldn't track a thread so closely and continuously for so long). He likely has a job with little or no responsibility where his opinions aren't heard so this is weak attempt for relevance.

Pity the troll, but please don't feed him.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 14906/09/2013

The Second Vermont Republic is a nonviolent citizens’ network and think tank committed to: (1) the peaceful breakup of meganations such as the United States, Russia, and China; (2) the self-determination of breakaway states such as Quebec, Scotland, and Vermont; and (3) a strategic alliance with other small, democratic, nonviolent, affluent, socially responsible, cooperative, egalitarian, sustainable, ecofriendly nations such as Austria, Finland, Sweden, and Switzerland which share a high degree of environmental integrity and a strong sense of community.

We, citizens of this American land, haunted by the nihilism of separation, meaninglessness, and powerlessness, subsumed by political elites who use corporate, state, and military power to manipulate our lives, pawns of a global system of dominance and deceit in which transnational megacompanies and big government control us through money, markets, and media, sapping our political will, civil liberties, collective memory, traditional cultures, sustainability, and independence, and as victims of affluenza, technomania, cybermania, globalism, and imperialism, do issue and proclaim this…Read More

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 15006/09/2013

Last September, about 60 Vermonters met in the chambers of the house of representatives in Montpelier to celebrate the state’s “independence spirit” and to discuss the goals of “environmental sustainability, economic justice, and Vermont self--determination.” The speaker of the house had given up the space free of charge for the one-day conference. First at the podium was a Princeton-educated yak farmer and professor of journalism named Rob Williams, one of the organizers of the event, who at 9 A.M. opened the proceedings by acknowledging what he called “some unpleasant and hard truths.” Amid the twin global crises of peak oil and climate change, the United States was “an out-of-control empire.” It was “unresponsive to the needs, concerns, and desires of ordinary citizens.”

Williams, who wore a T-shirt that said “U.S. Out of Vermont,” did not advocate revolution. He was looking for a divorce. He wanted Vermont to secede. “Nonviolent secession,” he said, “the detaching from empire and exercising our rights to independence, a deeply American right first expressed in the Declaration of Independence, is a right that demands re-exploration today.” Williams noted that Vermont is one of only three states, along with Texas and Hawaii, that ever existed as an independent republic—in Vermont’s case, from 1777 to 1791—and that as “a national leader on progressive political issues,” the state was “uniquely poised to lead this national conversation on self-determination.”

The murmuring response from the crowd suggested they’d heard it before. Williams and his fellow travelers—who constituted not quite a movement, he said, but more “a network of critical observers”—had been calling for separation from the U.S. since 2003. They had gathered in the ornate rooms of the state house to spread the word in 2005 and again in 2008 and now in 2012. Vermont had not yet separated, but the secessionists who were calling for a “Second Vermont Republic” had gained notoriety, and some small influence, across the state.

The conference’s attendees included an ecofeminist named Lierre Keith, co-author of Deep Green Resistance, who reported that “capitalism is literally insane” and urged the collapse of industrial civilization; a man in a kaffiyeh who enthused over a recent story about a rural Vermonter who, faced with police harassment over his use of marijuana, mounted his tractor, drove into town, and crushed seven sheriff’s cruisers under the treads of the behemoth machine; a musician who sang a tune called “Totalitarian Democracy”; a thespian garbed in 18th-century blouse and boots and cravat who re-enacted Ethan Allen, the farmer-soldier who led Vermont’s war of secession against New York in 1777; and a troupe of female dancers from the radical Bread and Puppet Theater, dressed all in white, who chanted a series of poems about “upriser calisthenics.”

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 15106/09/2013

You posted an article from an event that occurred in 2005. Eight years ago.

Nice try.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 15206/09/2013

Nobody gives a fuck about Vermont 124

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 15306/09/2013

I particularly liked this quote-

[quote]Even leading "seceshers" realize the feds will oppose secession, so they're promoting a gradual withdrawal of nullifying federal laws and embracing local economics. Their latest litmus test: Residents' hard work recovering from Hurricane Irene before FEMA showed up. "There was palpable pride in the town and its people and a distinct we-ain’t-waitin'-for-no-gubmint attitude," said one resident. "We could have easily continued for several more weeks and longer." (But Vermont and Texas aren't the only ones who want out.)

Nullification is the big buzzword amongst us Anarchist Libertarians. It's great that the "far left" and "far right" (as if those words were actually meaningful in describing liberals who want personal and economic freedom and local control) have finally found common cause.

The movement to create a "second Vermont Republic" had died down after Obama was elected, but the current scandals have created an atmosphere of camaraderie between the "greens", the libertarians, the traditionalists, and the "commie-pinko-libs" that grows every day.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 15406/09/2013

[quote]Last September, about 60 Vermonters met in the chambers of the house of representatives in Montpelier to celebrate the state’s “independence spirit” and to discuss the goals of “environmental sustainability, economic justice, and Vermont self--determination.” The speaker of the house had given up the space free of charge for the one-day conference.

Vermont must be quite small for 60 of its citizens to be "enough people to vote for a 'secession' referendum that will pass."

Further, regarding your reference to Hurricane Irene:

[quote] The article mentions damage from Hurricane Irene but leaves out a few minor details.

[quote]"In my home state, Vermont, where the storm devastated the landscape, destroying or damaging 200 bridges, more than 500 miles of road, and 100 miles of railroad, the National Guard airlifted in free food, water, diapers, baby formula, medicine, and tarps to thousands of desperate Vermonters trapped in 13 stranded towns—all free of charge to the victims of the storm.

[quote]The damage to Vermont was estimated at up to $1 billion. Yet the state only has 621,000 residents, so it could never have raised all the money needed to rebuild alone. Vermont businesses, individuals, and foundations have donated at least $4 million, possibly up to $6 million in assistance, an impressive figure, but not a fraction of what was needed. The state government immediately released $24 million in funds, crucial to getting its system of roads rebuilt and functioning, but again that was a drop in the bucket, given the level of damage. A little known state-owned bank, the Vermont Municipal Bond Bank, also offered low-interest, low-collateral loans to towns to aid reconstruction efforts. But without federal money, which covered 80 percent to 100 percent of the costs of rebuilding many Vermont roads, the state would still be an economic basket case. Without aid from Washington, the transportation network might have taken years to recover.

[quote]As for flood insurance, the federal government is pretty much the only place to get it."

[quote]They were only able to raise about 10 percent of the funds needed but hey, they were able to hold candlelight planning sessions, heave pebbles & gravel and send emissaries on foot, so I guess they're totally self-sufficient.

I lifted those quotes from your precious link.

Still failing, OP.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 15506/09/2013

It's the Lew Rockwell nut again.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 15606/09/2013

R149-

Thanks. I try to ignore most of the trolls, but after 3 or 4 "you're a pussy" comments I decided to shut her down.

She obviously knows nothing about the coalition of hardcore left liberals and libertarians that are working hard to educate the people of Vermont about the benefits of seceding from the USA.

I'm sorry for feeding the troll. And thanks again for not being a tool- I suspect that if you read Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson" you would understand how someone can be VERY socially liberal and VERY anti-government at the same time.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 15706/09/2013

I proved my point.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 15806/09/2013

What point, R124? That you're an obsessive moron?

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 15906/09/2013

Yes, R158, but you're arguing with one of the lewrockwell.com cultists. He's replaced independent thought with dogma, so it's not like he's even aware of what he's trying to say. He's a parrot.

When you say "prove your claim," he panics and posts mountains of text, hoping that the answer is in there somewhere. He has no idea what he's doing.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 16006/09/2013

My point was that if you're going to post statements about how the country's going to hell and how millions are rising in protest, back those statements with facts.

R5 started it off right.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 16106/09/2013

R161

The fact that holding interest rates at a level below the inflation rate and that such a program means that retirees must "gamble" in the market to have enough money to live is not questioned.

The fact that our gov has given the FED carte blanche to print a trillion dollars each year is unquestioned.

The fact that our gov is spying on us 24/7 and can kill us with drones is unquestioned.

The fact that our employment rate (the number of people between 18-65) is lower than 1979 is unquestioned.

The fact that all food, gas and shelter prices (you know, those things they ignore in the "official" interest rate) have risen dramatically over the last decade, and are rising faster each day is not questioned.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 16206/09/2013

I'm with r5, too.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 16306/09/2013

OP. Don't just list items and call them "facts."

Back them up with FACTS.

Where's the links?

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 16406/09/2013

You actually expect a Libertarian to pay attention to facts? You're funny.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 16506/09/2013

[quote]Nullification is the big buzzword amongst us Anarchist Libertarians.

Meanwhile, those of us who live in the real world are laughing at the silliness of that buzzword, particularly the emptiness behind it.

[quote]She obviously knows nothing about the coalition of hardcore left liberals and libertarians that are working hard to educate the people of Vermont about the benefits of seceding from the USA.

Actually, we do. But that isn't what you claimed. You wrote, and I quote: "Vermont is close to having enough people to vote for a 'secession' referendum that will pass." You were lying, of course, and nothing you've posted since has even come close to backing up that silly claim.

[quote]The fact that holding interest rates at a level below the inflation rate and that such a program means that retirees must "gamble" in the market to have enough money to live is not questioned.

Moron, that's been true for most of the past several decades. A savings account has never been a good hedge against inflation. And that's not even counting that there are benefits of low interest rates, including being able to purchase a home with an interest rate of just 3.25%, giving people more money to spend and to save for retirement.

[quote]The fact that our gov has given the FED carte blanche to print a trillion dollars each year is unquestioned.

However, the consequences of that are most definitely not "unquestioned," given that your economic predictions and the predictions of your hero Ron Paul have been wrong for decades.

[quote]The fact that our employment rate (the number of people between 18-65) is lower than 1979 is unquestioned.

Of course, the fact that your economic policies would make things worse is also "unquestioned."

[quote]The fact that all food, gas and shelter prices (you know, those things they ignore in the "official" interest rate) have risen dramatically over the last decade, and are rising faster each day is not questioned.

Actually, it's not only *not* "unquestioned," it's unequivocally false, as you well know. Now you're just lying.

Of course, the fact that you're an ignorant paranoid loon is unquestioned, but c'est la vie.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 16606/10/2013

[quote]You actually expect a Libertarian to pay attention to facts?

Yeah, particularly this one, who's been pulling the same shit here for years. He's never had any connection to reality and almost never even tries to back up his drivel. And when he does try, it's usually along the lines of what he posted in R148, R150, and R151: crap that doesn't even come close to supporting what he claimed. Or what he posted in R162, which has nothing do with anything and is unsupported nonsense.

So mock him or ignore him; just don't make the mistake of taking him seriously and trying to have a real debate. He's incapable of it.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 16706/10/2013

I have always wanted to start a cult with a blind following. I assumed my target would be the lemmings in Utah, they seem to crave a leader. After reading this mess, I'm going to target gay democrats.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 16806/10/2013

[quote] After reading this mess, I'm going to target gay democrats.

Because after reading this mess you think they're more gullible than Libertarians??

How sad you are.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 16906/10/2013

R52 is dead on. I have preached for years that any citizen with sense would focus on local and state races/politics as much as (if not more) as national-level elections.

Where the hell do most of our Congressional cadre come from? The overwhelming majority made their bones and pacts with Satan at the local and state level, in our state houses and as state department appointees. And those who remain at the state and local levels have every bit as much power over your day-to-day life as the POTUS.

Yet most Americans can't be arsed to vote in any election but the Presidential. And its is shameful.

And I'm sorry, but it's Democratic voters and those who SHOULD be Dem voters, who are most at fault here. Conservatives will get out the vote like crazy; even when they're unhappy with their Presidential nominee, as noted in 2012, they still turn out and vote for the down-ticket Republican candidates and conservative/reactionary ballot initiatives. Disaffected Democrats and those on public assistance sit on their asses in incredible numbers every election.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 17006/10/2013

R170 - I'm not convince you are right.

The Republican GOTV in 2012 has pretty much be labeled a disaster. Project Orca.

Down-ticket initiative like same-sex marriage did great in 2012.

Thanks to gerrymandering the House general election has become all but meaningless.

If you were to characterize the GOP GOTV initiatives in 2012 - they actually seemed more like keep the Democrats from voting initiatives.

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 17106/14/2013

bump

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 17212/09/2014

[quote] Now that we know our government is spying and lying, what do we do?

Nothing. Obama loves you. He needs you to keep believing in Him.

It is all the Republicanscum fault. Democrats are here for YOU! As long as you believe in us, we can help you!

Ahhhhh, who'm I kidding!!!

by I'm sure the NSA, CIA, and FBI are already watching mereply 17312/10/2014
Loading
Need more help? Click Here.