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BitCoin- is anyone here using them?

Has anyone here used BitCoins, or familiar with the system?

It's a secure digital currency that allows people to anonymously pay for goods and services. The "killer app" feature is that it cannot be counterfeited, and the number of BitCoins is limited by the code.

Since it makes it easy to do business without using Dollars or Yen or Euro (and therefore outside the control of the central banks) it is becoming a nuisance, and the government is trying to shut it down.

______

An increasing number of people have complained about governments and central banks in recent years, even using the word "tyranny" to describe them. They are, of course, called names in the establishment press: conspiracy theorists, mainly.

Calling someone a name, however, does not erase their argument (at least not among rational people) and both the governments and the big banks stand accused.

Up till now, however, these accusations were never accepted by the general public. The average guy really didn't want to hear about the evils of government money. After all, that was the only thing he had ever used to buy food, clothes, gasoline, cars, and so on. He didn't want to acknowledge the accusations because he feared what might happen to him without his usual money.

Now, however, we have a brand new currency (called Bitcoin) available to us: something radically different. This gives us a new way to directly address the subject of monetary tyranny, providing a clear test for the governments and money masters of the world:

If they are truly NOT tyrannical, they will leave this new currency alone.

If they ARE tyrannical, they will attack the new currency because it eats into their scam.

In other words, Bitcoin is a test for "the powers that be." The way they deal with this new method of exchange will reveal their true nature.

If they ignore Bitcoin, they refute the charges of tyranny. If they attack it, they verify those charges.

After all, what honest reason could there be to attack an inherently peaceful tool for transferring value?

by Anonymousreply 9206/20/2015

PROSPECTIVE REASONS

Reasons to attack Bitcoin have recently appeared in the "public square." Here are the three most popular ones, each followed with some analysis:

It can be used for money laundering.

Of course it can be used for money laundering – ANY currency can be used for money laundering. Currencies are neutral – that is their purpose! Currencies are valuable precisely because they can be exchanged for anything else – that's why we use them!

Moreover, dollars and Euros and Pounds are used for money laundering every day. Consider the recent money laundering crimes of HSBC and Wachovia/Wells Fargo. These banks laundered hundreds of billions of dollars for violent drug cartels. And consider that this amount of laundered money is several hundred times the value of every Bitcoin in existence.

No one from either bank went to jail. Neither bank was shut down. Neither bank suffered more than a minor fine. So, how much of a concern can money laundering really be to governments and banks? Clearly not much.

But, since they accuse Bitcoin of being used for bad things, let's be clear about the situation:

----Every mafioso uses government money.

-----Every drug smuggler uses government money.

-----Every terrorist uses government money.

-----Every pornographer uses government money.

-----Every criminal of every type uses government money.

They also use the telephone system and the mail and banks and a wide variety of government services. But government money is good and Bitcoin is bad?

The argument fails.

by Anonymousreply 105/07/2013

It could destabilize the current system.

A tiny, new currency is a threat to the long-established king of the hill? Comparing Bitcoin to dollars, Euros and Yen is like comparing an ant to a dinosaur. This is a threat?

Please understand also that no one is forcing anyone to use Bitcoin. If you don't think it's a great idea, you don't have to use it. If its price movements (relative to dollars) bother you, you don't have to use it. How is that destabilizing to the current system? It is entirely separate.

And what of the current system? It was falling apart on its own before the Bitcoin program was ever written. And I could go on at length on the insane levels of government debt, hundreds of trillions in derivatives, rehypothecation, and innocent people being forced to bail-out failed banks.

The current system has massive problems, but none of them can be blamed on Bitcoin.

This argument fails also.

Bitcoin provides no customer protection.

Well, no, it doesn't. Bitcoin is a currency, not a legal system.

What is implied by this argument is that the government banking system does protect customers. That is an outright lie. People are ripped off via the banking system every day. And more than that, consider what happened just a month ago in Cyprus: Thousands of innocent people were ripped off BY the banking system – purposely – all at once and without recourse. This argument is, really, an insult to one's intelligence.

And I should add something else: If Bitcoin is used properly, the crime of identity theft (a big problem with government money) vanishes – there is no identity available to be stolen.

So, again, the argument fails. Only those people who believe anything a government says will buy it.

IN THE END

In the end, it is said, we judge ourselves. Bitcoin has now put governments and banks in the position of judging themselves. They will write their own verdicts.

It should be interesting to watch.

by Anonymousreply 205/07/2013

Here is the link.

If the government goes after BitCoin it means they are scared that it will prove that "The Emperor Has No Clothes" and prove that the conspiracy theorists are right.

by Anonymousreply 305/07/2013

Here is an article from today by the WSJ---

Bitcoin startups are beginning to raise sizable investment capital even as industry leaders warn that hackers are abusing the Internet virtual currency for profit.

In the past year, fledgling businesses Coinbase Inc., Coinsetter Inc. and CoinLab Inc. have raised millions of dollars collectively from prominent venture-capital firms and angel investors, adding credibility to a digital currency that isn't backed by a central bank.

Mystery still surrounds Bitcoin, but buzz is growing, despite recent wild swings in the currency's value. Here's a rough timeline of the Bitcoin evolution.

On Wednesday, Bitcoin, which can be used to make payments over the Internet without transaction fees or involving a financial institution, is expected to win its biggest validation to date with a $5 million investment in San Francisco-based Coinbase led by Twitter Inc. investor Union Square Ventures.

That investment would top last month's more than $2 million put into OpenCoin Inc., another virtual currency startup whose backers include venture firm Andreessen Horowitz.

"This is going to be a trigger point," said Union Square managing partner Fred Wilson of the Coinbase investment. "You'll see lot more venture money being poured into this space."

Coinbase operates an online service that allows users to buy Bitcoin, store the virtual currency in a digital wallet and pay merchants for goods or services with it. The company was founded last year by Fred Ehrsam, a 24-year-old former Goldman Sachs trader, and 30-year-old Brian Armstrong, previously an engineer at short-term rental startup Airbnb.

Bitcoin is attracting attention as a wildly volatile, all-digital currency. How does it work? How are criminals taking advantage of it? How risky an investment is it? In this Bitcoin explainer, WSJ's Jason Bellini has "The Short Answer."

In April, the Coinbase co-founders said the company had about 116,000 members who converted $15 million of real money into Bitcoin, up from $1 million in January. Mr. Ehrsam said its dollar conversions are increasing by about 15% a week, and its user base is growing at a weekly rate of about 12%.

"We are in land-grab mode," said Mr. Ehrsam.

by Anonymousreply 405/07/2013

Bitcoin was born as a decentralized and unregulated currency, removed from the government's long arm of regulation. But now that the crypto-currency is going mainstream, governments are starting to react. In March, the U.S. Treasury Department extended some anti money laundering rules to the digital currency. And now, the American financial regulator for derivative markets is considering whether it should regulate Bitcoin trading.

Bart Chilton, one of five commissioners at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), an agency that regulates future and option markets, told the Financial Times that Bitcoin "is for sure something we need to explore."

"It’s not Monopoly money we’re talking about here — real people can have real risk in these instruments, and we need to ensure that we protect markets and consumers," Chilton said. "In essence, we’re talking about a type of shadow currency, and there is more than a colorable argument to be made that derivative products relating to Bitcoin falls squarely in our jurisdiction."

SEE ALSO: Tiny ATM Takes Your Money and Gives You Bitcoin

Chilton is referring to Bitcoin derivatives markets, where investors can bet on the currency's fall or rise, and speculate on its value. As Bitcoin becomes more popular, these markets are starting to spring up, as reported by Ars Technica in April. And Chilton indicated that they might have to regulate them.

"Here's what I know for sure: we could regulate it if we wanted. That is very clear," Chilton told Reuters. "There is potentially a federal role here, and we have to make sure that we're on guard that whatever is traded is appropriately regulated."

Even though Chilton's words indicate a potential interest in new regulation, his outspoken opinions don't mean any regulation will actually be implemented, as that would need the support of the rest of the CFTC board as well as its lawyers and other experts.

Furthermore, regulating a digital currency that has no central authority overseeing and controlling it might be impossible. "It seems like one of those instruments that almost can't be regulated because there is no central repository, central bank, central anything," Chilton said in an interview with CNBC. But, he added,"if it's traded in U.S. commerce, if it's traded on our computers, we could potentially oversee it."

by Anonymousreply 505/07/2013

When the NYTimes starts bashing you then know that it is scaring The Powers That Be.

A Push for a Bitcoin Buttonwood By NATHANIEL POPPER

Amid the incense, cheap art and herbal remedies for sale in Union Square in Manhattan on Monday, a very different kind of product was changing hands: bitcoins.

Just feet from the park’s statue of George Washington, a crowd of young men gathered on Monday afternoon to buy and sell the digital, crypto-currency.

The men – and there were only men – were brought together by an online posting from Josh Rossi, 31, a bitcoin aficionado who works in technology at the World Trade Financial Group.

One of the trademarks of bitcoins since they were created by anonymous programmers in 2009 has been that they have no physical form, and can be exchanged completely electronically, making human interactions unnecessary.

But the online venues for buying and selling bitcoins have become too expensive and time consuming, Mr. Rossi said. So he proposed what he called Project Buttonwood, a reference to the where the New York Stock Exchange had its beginning in 1792.

“If I want to buy a hamburger, I want to be able to sell my bitcoins and get my money immediately so I can buy that hamburger,” said Mr. Rossi, who wore jeans and loafers for the occasion, and smoked a cigarette while watching the proceedings.

The legality of bitcoin has been questioned by some regulators, and investors have looked on in horror in recent weeks as the price of a single bitcoin has bounced around more sharply than the most speculative stock. Mr. Rossi’s posting about the event on Reddit was sniped at by one commentator who said “you might get busted by the Feds” and another who predicted “the first bitcoin ‘gang’ fight.”

In the end, such dire predictions did not pan out. After a slow start at 4 p.m., just as trading on the New York Stock Exchange shut down for the day, the crowd grew to about 20 people. There were a few polite arguments about how the process should work, and then people began calling out prices at which they were willing to buy and sell bitcoins. Many of the young men alternated between conversation and watching the nearby skateboarders and break dancers.

The first transaction came when Mr. Rossi pulled out a $20 bill in order to buy a part of a bitcoin, at a rate of $120 for a single bitcoin. The seller was Owen Gunden, a 30-year old programmer. In order to transfer the online currency, Mr. Rossi used his smartphone to take a picture of the graphic code on Mr. Gunden’s phone, which provided access to his bitcoin account. The crowd around the men clapped.

“This is markets becoming more efficient,” Mr. Rossi said with a smile.

Nearby, Kirill Gourov, a 21-year old college student, said he was looking to buy a bitcoin for $125 and was serving as a broker for a friend who was text messaging him, and who wanted to sell his bitcoin for $112.

The gap between the bid and offer in Union Square was significantly larger than it was at the same time on the biggest online exchange, Mt. Gox, where the going price was around $114. But before long, a few more buyers and sellers met. Gabe Sukenik, the 24-year old founder of a bitcoin start-up, Coinapult, pulled out a wad of $20 bills and counted out enough cash to buy two bitcoins from a young man who identified himself as a Wall Street trader.

“I’ll flip a coin for a hundred bucks if you want,” said the trader. “That’s my risk tolerance.”

As the afternoon went on, a man who gave his name as Jerry, took out a notebook and began recording the trickle of trades. He jokingly said he would serve as the exchange’s clerk if someone bought him a Coke.

“We’re here enjoying the sunshine, enjoying the ladies, and trying to move the bitcoin community along,” Jerry said.

Mr. Rossi said he planned to be back in the same place next Monday.

by Anonymousreply 605/07/2013

this is awfully complicated--I'm not really understanding it. I love the idea of screwing over the banks though.

by Anonymousreply 705/07/2013

You can almost smell the panic in this FORBES article from today.

The fear that our "faith based" currency, one that TPTB can print at a whim, might be supplanted by a digital system that cannot be printed and inflated is scaring the hell out them.

by Anonymousreply 805/07/2013

The only other place I've seen BitCoin mentioned was in the "deep web" thread that was going 6wks ago. Someone was explaining that street drugs could be easily and anonymously purchased from Silk Road and other sites on the torrents using BitCoin to pay for the transaction.

by Anonymousreply 905/07/2013

R7-

There are new "easy interface" products coming online each day. You can do it by cash, check or credit card, and the "Buttonwood" article shows how it is moving mainstream.

It not only fucks the banks, but the whole global Federal Reserve system. That is why they are so scared.

by Anonymousreply 1005/07/2013

R9-

FORBES, the NYTimes, Bloomberg, and the WSJ have all had in depth articles in the last few days trying to scare people.

Why would these powerful propaganda machines run articles about the "evil nature" of BitCoins if TPTB weren't scared shitless of the damage it could do to their monopoly power over the money system?

by Anonymousreply 1105/07/2013

I guess I'm dense because I don't understand the problem. It all sounds like Paypal to me.

by Anonymousreply 1205/08/2013

Paypal is just a payment processing company. Bitcoin is an actual currency that is not dependent on governments to determine its value. It's digital cash that can be used in any way the holder wishes.

by Anonymousreply 1305/08/2013

If US banks ever start confiscating their depositors' savings the way the banks in Cyprus did, this system is going to take off like a rocket.

by Anonymousreply 1405/08/2013

Is our resident OCD Libertarian back, come to clusterbomb us yet again?

Tip: Walls of text cut and pasted with intent to overwhelm, not enlighten, are tedious.

by Anonymousreply 1505/08/2013

R15, attacking the messenger is not as winning a strategy as it used to be.

by Anonymousreply 1605/08/2013

R15 is correct.

Only the smallest minds are swayed this way.

by Anonymousreply 1705/08/2013

[quote]Paypal is just a payment processing company. Bitcoin is an actual currency that is not dependent on governments to determine its value.

No, for a bitcoin to have value one must be able to readily exchange it for goods and services, and, like an ounce of gold or a bushel of wheat, that exchange is still finally calculated by comparing the value of a bitcoin to a dollar, a euro, a yen, whatever.

Unless you can covert it quickly and easily and for a known amount, that bitcoin is no different than the drawer full of old S&H Greenstamps my Grandmother is still sitting on.

by Anonymousreply 1805/08/2013

[quote]No, for a bitcoin to have value one must be able to readily exchange it for goods and services

All things in due time.

by Anonymousreply 1905/08/2013

Bitcoin will fail miserably and the people who invested in it, Peter Thiel types, will be killed by people they've duped.

by Anonymousreply 2005/08/2013

Global private government=global slavery

by Anonymousreply 2105/08/2013

I have 5000 bitcoins worth (just tossing out a number) $1 each. So I have $5000 in buying power as long as I can get someone to accept them.

How is that different than the ATM card in my wallet with a $5000 balance or the VISA with a $5000 credit limit?

In both cases I spend them freely as long as I can find someone to accept them.

Instead of a currency, it is just another way of storing currency, no different than buying gold, McDonalds gift certificates, or American Airlines Award Miles..

by Anonymousreply 2205/08/2013

Legal tender laws require that all good and services be convertible to national currency. There is a reason for that: it makes the market bigger for everyone.

by Anonymousreply 2305/08/2013

tl;dr

If you want to screw over the banks, use a credit union.

by Anonymousreply 2405/08/2013

[quote] When the NYTimes starts bashing you then know that it is scaring The Powers That Be.

And when WSJ is pretending to be aking a balanced look at it and comes out in favor of it, it's right wing/libertarian crap.

by Anonymousreply 2505/08/2013

R22-

The big difference is that BitCoins cannot be printed by the government, and therefore are not subject to the massive inflation we are seeing today.

by Anonymousreply 2605/08/2013

This may be the solution to the hyper-inflation that is headed our way sooner than you think.

by Anonymousreply 2705/08/2013

R26, if Bitcoins cannot be printed by the Government, then who creates them?

Why is the Lord of the Bitcoin any more trustworthy than the Government?

by Anonymousreply 2805/08/2013

The OP is a developmentally stunted fucktard who has problems dealing with authority.

Bitcoin is a faux-Libertarian scam that will end up ripping off anyone dumb and paranoid enough to buy into it.

by Anonymousreply 2905/08/2013

R27-

When the hyperinflation hits BitCoin will be better than dollars, but not as good as gold and silver. If we can stave of the hyperinflation another 10 years, then BitCoin might be viable.

R28-

The difference is you cannot print BitCoins. All of the major powers- China, Japan, the EU and US- are "printing" currency to stabilize their bankrupt system. Bitcoins are created by "mining" and cannot be counterfeited. They, like anything else (gold, silver, dollars, diamonds, etc.) have no intrinsic value but since they are fungible, easily transferred and not subject to inflation they will retain value as long as the internet exists.

Here is part of the Wiki that explains how they work.

The processing of bitcoin transactions is automated by servers called bitcoin miners. These servers communicate over an internet-based network and confirm transactions by adding them to a ledger which is updated and archived periodically. In addition to archiving transactions each new ledger update creates some newly-minted bitcoins. The number of new bitcoins created in each update is halved every 4 years until the year 2140 when this number will round down to zero. At that time no more bitcoins will be added into circulation and the total number of bitcoins will top out at 21 million bitcoins

by Anonymousreply 3005/08/2013

You obviously have to pay a fee to buy the bit coins. I'm not paying money to buy some other form of money. Not in America

by Anonymousreply 3105/08/2013

Sounds like a giant pyramid scheme to me.

by Anonymousreply 3205/08/2013

Flyover adolescent @R31-

Banks don't change euros or yen to dollars for free. Many even charge to convert a US dollar check to cash unless you have an account with that bank.

R32-

The code, and the specs, are completely open- if someone found a flaw it would be public. The only danger is if the government decides it too dangerous to allow people the freedom to choose. If TPTB decide that BitCoin is dangerous to their monopoly over the monetary system and the Federal Reserve they will do everything they can to destroy it.

If they decide to come after BitCoin it will just be more evidence that the US is a corrupt police state in service of the banks and big corporations.

Intelligent people call that Fascism.

by Anonymousreply 3305/08/2013

[quote]I guess I'm dense because I don't understand the problem. It all sounds like Paypal to me.

[quote]Sounds like a giant pyramid scheme to me.

Now I understand- the same poster wrote both of these. Anyone who cannot understand the difference between a digital, secure, non-governmental currency (BitCoin) and a simple online bank (PayPal) is too ignorant to use the internet.

Please go back to estimating the size of Fassbender's cock.

by Anonymousreply 3405/08/2013

how do you buy bitcoins?

by Anonymousreply 3505/08/2013

Seems to me the value is too easily manipulated by players in the market. Also, there is likely to be a speculative bubble over-valuing the "currency." People are going to get hurt. People are going to go to prison. Mark my words.

by Anonymousreply 3605/08/2013

It all has the whiff of . . . something . . . I can't quite put my finger on it . . .

by Anonymousreply 3705/08/2013

R35-

If you live in NYC, Google "Project Buttonwood" to see some fun action- they are doing "BC" auctions in Union Square and if not, there are places online that will take checks or transfers/wires. There are dozens of sites that are trying to create a cheap and reliable buy/sell system.

R36-

Bitcoin cannot be manipulated. The growth of BitCoins is governed by an algorithm that is open-source and any tampering would destroy the system. Bitcoin storage, however, has been breached a few times, and cost people millions. All of those problems can/will be handled by new encryption products and user diligence.

Many users lost (or gained) millions over the last 3 weeks due to a security breach. After Cyprus went bankrupt the price of BCs went up dramatically, but is now back to "normal" levels.

Why would they go to prison? For showing how evil the Central Banks really are?

Unlike the people that are FORCED to use the euro, or dollar, or yen---well, BitCoin is voluntary. If they get attacked by this "logic"---

[quote]Seems to me the value is too easily manipulated by players in the market. Also, there is likely to be a speculative bubble over-valuing the "currency."

If (no, WHEN) the government decides that BitCoin is dangerous to their MONOPOLY control of the money supply they will try to destroy it- too bad it is decentralized, and even if the USA decides ban it, it will still have value in Cambodia, and Uruguay, and Zambia...

If we can keep the sociopaths that inhabit the White House and Congress from destroying BitCoin (they will try, but I doubt they will succeed!) then it will destroy the dollar, yen, euro, etc. in just a few years!!!

by Anonymousreply 3805/08/2013

[quote]Bitcoin cannot be manipulated. The growth of BitCoins is governed by an algorithm that is open-source and any tampering would destroy the system.

It may not be manipulated by the issuer, but it already has been manipulated by the people who buy and sell the things. The was a sharp run up in value followed by a loss of 2/3rds of that value in a single day. Owning a thinly traded "commodity" in an unregulated market is basically saying "Fuck me," and not in a good way.

by Anonymousreply 3905/08/2013

R39-

Since the government has no control over BitCoin, the current transaction size is negligible and it is (relatively) anonymous.

If people want to use it, voluntarily, with no promise that they will be satisfied, why does the government threaten to intervene.

BitCoin is a tiny, TINY market, smaller than the dug and prostitution market combined.

BUT, it threatens the Central Banks, the controllers of the immense Dollar system.

If they shut it down it will prove that Libertarians were 100% right about the metamorphosis of the US into a violent police state where only the top .01% control 99% of the wealth and the majority feed on crumbs.

by Anonymousreply 4005/08/2013

So if BitCoin takes over it means all the money I'be saved and investments I've made, isn't worth shit right?

by Anonymousreply 4105/08/2013

It's a fad. Like Napster.

by Anonymousreply 4205/08/2013

I can't believe some people are so frightened of government manipulation by the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve whose actions are public that they are willing to place themselves at the mercy of professional traders who secretly steal billions every day.

I'm not advocating for the government to intervene. I'm warning that little guys who wade into an unregulated market are fools and that people who are excited about bitcoin BECAUSE it is not regulated by the government are even bigger fools.

by Anonymousreply 4305/08/2013

[quote]Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve whose actions are public

Really? You mean those press releases they send out a few times a year that say what they want you to hear?

[quote] I'm warning that little guys who wade into an unregulated market are fools and that people who are excited about bitcoin BECAUSE it is not regulated by the government are even bigger fools.

I would prefer a totally "unregulated" (aka a market controlled by market forces and not by good gray men that are high on their own hubris) to the current system that rewards the 0.1% at the expense of the bottom 99.9%

by Anonymousreply 4405/08/2013

As much as it pains me to agree with an American libertarian, I think BitCoin has some promise, although it's misleading to say it's immune to manipulation and interference. People are already trying to game the prices to their advantage. I do like the idea of being able to trade online in anonymity (my wife doesn't like seeing credit card charges for tentacle porn).

by Anonymousreply 4505/08/2013

[quote]Bitcoin is an actual currency that is not dependent on governments to determine its value. It's digital cash that can be used in any way the holder wishes.

This type of online currency has already been traded for years on War of Warcraft and Xbox 360.

by Anonymousreply 4605/08/2013

The Winklevoss twins are major shareholders.

by Anonymousreply 4705/09/2013

"the massive inflation we are seeing today"

Oh my side! Stop! Stop!

by Anonymousreply 4805/09/2013

It's basically an unregulated tech stock.

In 2013, Bitcoin's annualized volatility has been 105 percent. That's compared to 5.5 percent for the dollar and 8.5 percent for the euro.

by Anonymousreply 4905/09/2013

Bitcoin - the latest in a long line of hustles, preying on the paranoid and weak-minded.

Did that "Gold is the Only Safe Investment" scam dry up when the price dropped?

Whatever your personal problems, OP, I doubt that the DL is an appropriate place to troll for suckers. The stormfront and OCD Libertarian contingent is very small here.

by Anonymousreply 5005/09/2013

[quote]The difference is you cannot print BitCoins. All of the major powers- China, Japan, the EU and US- are "printing" currency to stabilize their bankrupt system. Bitcoins are created by "mining" and cannot be counterfeited. They, like anything else (gold, silver, dollars, diamonds, etc.) have no intrinsic value but since they are fungible, easily transferred and not subject to inflation they will retain value as long as the internet exists.

Remember Les Nessman and his private "office?" Complete with walls and a door only he could see? But everyone who visited him had to "knock," then turn the imaginary doorknob push the door open?

Or Les opened the "door" in response to the "knock." Thus everyone at work had to buy into the illusion/delusion, lest Les become a whiny little bitch.

Yeah. Bitcoin is like that.

by Anonymousreply 5105/09/2013

[quote]I would prefer a totally "unregulated" (aka a market controlled by market forces and not by good gray men that are high on their own hubris) to the current system that rewards the 0.1% at the expense of the bottom 99.9%

As I said, you are an idiot.

by Anonymousreply 5205/09/2013

[quote]When the hyperinflation hits BitCoin will be better than dollars, but not as good as gold and silver. If we can stave of the hyperinflation another 10 years, then BitCoin might be viable.

The same hyperinflation that you have been saying is imminent for the last 5 years yet has not showed up anywhere on earth? Hyperinflation is a right wing bogeyman used by hucksters to extract wealth from the easily confused.

If you don't recognize the signs of market manipulation is a chart like this, you deserve to be ripped off.

by Anonymousreply 5305/09/2013

R45-

What do you dislike about libertarianism? You seem smart enough to know what it is, and you must understand that it is internally consistent (unlike other political systems) so please enlighten us.

by Anonymousreply 5405/09/2013

Do rentboys take BitCoin?

by Anonymousreply 5505/09/2013

The one constant we have in the United States is our failure to learn from our mistakes. We've been through all this before the New Deal and reformation (read: regulation) of the banks, specifically the Glass-Steagall Act. Before that, states had their own currencies, and there were even currencies issued by private companies. The economy reliably cycled every 7 to 10 years between prosperity and increasingly deep recession, until we hit bottom in 1929 through entering World War II. People lost their life's savings routinely when the currency they held it in collapsed. BitCoin is just like those alternate currencies, only there is nothing behind it to back it like a government or a tangible article like gold. Who's faith and good credit backs BitCoin?

And since it was "invented" in 2009, who sold the first BitCoins? It is a paradox that this person sold us on trust in him in exchange for currency that we back, and the only way for him to make a profit is to buy BitCoin for less than he sold it, or he holds currency that the BitCoin proponents tell us is going to be worthless.

The point so laboriously avoided in this discussion is that scarcity does not create value, as that appears to be the only attribute BitCoin offers, aside from anonymity (which I will concede is of value). However, if R30 is correct and the circulation growth is controlled by an algorithm designed to exponentially reduce itself to zero growth, that is literally a recipe for disaster. The population is growing, and just the fact that there will be so many more people fighting for a limited resource means that the worldwide economy will stagnate. If BitCoin were the only currency available, each of the 21 million would be worth so much that nobody but the most wealthy could hold them.

If there is any fact that should tell you BitCoin is a total scam, just look at the fact that it is Wall Street traders who are making a market for this, decidedly on "their own time" because, lets face it, they could be making gazillions of $$ making markets at their day job. They're clearly doing it because they think it is an easy way to part fools and their money.

by Anonymousreply 5605/09/2013

Anyone who used Glass-Stealgoodsfromus and The New Raw Deal as their positive points is an idiot.

by Anonymousreply 5705/10/2013

I've re-read this thread and find it interesting that no one has said that the government should have no right to ban BitCoins.

The fact that the government is looking to stifle such a tiny market should arouse skepticism amongst thinking people. If they are a legitimate threat to the monopoly powers of the big banks then I would think most people would defend them and embrace them.

by Anonymousreply 5805/11/2013

Anyone who doesn't comprehend the importance of regulation in a market-based economy is an idiot, R57.

by Anonymousreply 5905/11/2013

I find BitCoin interesting, but I don't fully understand what it is, other than a means of transacting financial transactions with using government backed currencies. I like what I have read, but I have more questions than knowledge. Unfortunately for me, I may not have all that much time to live (I'm in my 70's) for it to affect me.

If it beats the central banks, I"m for it.

by Anonymousreply 6005/11/2013

That's e thing, R60, it doesn't go after the banks; the premise is conflating the money supply with the business of managing money, and trying to infer that it is somehow the Federal Reserve's and by extension, the government's fault that we suffered an economic collapse not seen since the Great Depression. Which is, on its face, absurd. But leave it to the Pubbies to try and deflect responsibility in cover for their donors and benefactors. And a complicit executive doesn't help matters.

We know how to solve the problems. Introducing a currency backed only by the promise of a transactional marketplace is not among the ways to fix the economy. It's really very simple: reinstate Glass-Steagall, prosecute the financial crimes that lead up to the collapse, raise taxes to the rates in the 1950's, undertake a massive public works project like the Eisenhower interstate freeway system, and when the budget goes into surplus, pay off debt. You know, pretty much the opposite of what the government has been doing for the last 4.5 years.

Risking a dime in BitCoin does exactly what caused the financial collapse, speculating that the bubble will never burst. And when it does, I suppose the government will have to bail out holders of BitCoin, lest the artificial cap of 21 million coins isn't deemed too big to fail.

by Anonymousreply 6105/11/2013

Dwolla sent this message today to BitCoin account users. The government crackdown continues.

Posted at Reddit bitcoin:

DWOLLA

As of 12:13 PM on 5/14/2013:

You’re receiving this notice because our systems have indicated that you’ve processed and completed a real-time Dwolla-to-Dwolla payment to Mutum Sigillum LLC (“Mt. Gox”) within the last 24 hours.

Due to recent court orders received from the Department of Homeland Security and U.S. District Court for the District of Maryland, Dwolla is no longer legally able to service Mutum Sigillum LLC’s account.

This is a courtesy email encouraging you to follow up on any uncompleted orders with Mutum Sigillum LLC as Dwolla is now unable to move money to and from Mutum Sigillum LLC’s Dwolla account.

Dwolla is not party to this matter nor does it have any information or further insight into the situation. We strongly encourages those with questions to contact Mutum Sigillum LLC Note: Dwolla requires a court order before honoring requests such as seizing funds or revoking access to an account.

On behalf of Dwolla, we apologize for this inconvenience.

by Anonymousreply 6205/14/2013

People on Cam4 are asking to be tipped in BitCoins. You know it's legit now.

by Anonymousreply 6305/16/2013

[quote]The big difference is that BitCoins cannot be printed by the government, and therefore are not subject to the massive inflation we are seeing today.

LOL... Still on that "massive inflation" kick, are you? Meanwhile, out here in the real world, that "massive inflation" you've been complaining about for the past several years still hasn't materialized.

[quote]Bitcoin cannot be manipulated.

ROFL.... Oh my... what can you say in the face of such blind ignorance?

[quote]What do you dislike about libertarianism?

Aside from its manifest stupidity?

[quote]You seem smart enough to know what it is, and you must understand that it is internally consistent (unlike other political systems) so please enlighten us.

Dear heart, *every* political system insists that it's "internally consistent." Libertarianism is no more "consistent" than any other philosophy, nor are its devotees, including your personal hero (and blatant hypocrite), Ron Paul.

As for the thread topic, R61 nails it. Tell us again how gold is going to climb to ten times its current value, won't you?

by Anonymousreply 6405/17/2013

Bitcoins will come in very handy to stuff into the leaks on the floating libertarianoid island nations. Virtually speaking.

by Anonymousreply 6505/17/2013

Did anyone see Morgan Spurlock and his CNN show this week? He did a show about bitcoin, how to get it, pro's/con's and trying to use it at various places in NY.

by Anonymousreply 6602/20/2015

Weird. I saw my first real world bit coin machine tonight. Are they called ATMs?

by Anonymousreply 6702/20/2015

You know who gets paid in bitcoin? Lindsey Lohan, when she sells her ass.

Nice company you keep, Idiot Libertarian Spam Troll.

by Anonymousreply 6802/20/2015

R68 who or what are you talking about?

It was just a one hour on show on CNN. It didn't take any sides about using or not using it. More like a day in the like of using BitCoin and merchants who are or aren't on board and why.

by Anonymousreply 6902/20/2015

Bitcoin will save Greece!!

by Anonymousreply 7002/20/2015

There is no need to take down bitcoin. Let these morons lose their money, maybe then the ILST will stop spamming us every day and night.

by Anonymousreply 7102/21/2015

A neocon in-law's druggy son is obsessed with bitcoin. Drugs and libertarianism go hand in hand. A libertarian is a conservative who does drugs, so there you go. Bitcoin = purchasing drugs on the Internet by libertarians.

by Anonymousreply 7202/21/2015

r66 I saw the special. I really wanted to understand, but I think the show failed to take the concept and use from A to Z.

The huge Japanese Bit Coin crash could not be explained either. Poof, over a billion dollars of bitcoins gone?

I'm intrigued but I need to learn a great deal more.

by Anonymousreply 7302/21/2015

Bitcoin bump. Since another poster was asking about it.

by Anonymousreply 7406/19/2015

It's hilarious reading the idiotic comments from our resident ILT, since so much of what he wrote a couple of years ago has been shown to be conclusively false. I really loved this one: "Bitcoin cannot be manipulated." Duh ... of course it can, and has been.

And I love even more that our resident ILT still doesn't understand the concept of "money," particularly that no matter what "currency" you choose, its value is only what someone else will give you for it, whether that "currency" is Bitcoin, dollars, euros, or gold.

by Anonymousreply 7506/19/2015

Yeah, that Bitcoin has really taken off.

by Anonymousreply 7606/19/2015

The last I heard of Bitcoin was that some unemployed Japanese American guy in the San Gabriel Valley was behind it. They showed him on the news denying everything and looking like he was sleeping in his Mom's basement (which I think he was.)

It could have been a media ruse, though.

by Anonymousreply 7706/19/2015

Anyone who buys bitcoins has a screw loose.

by Anonymousreply 7806/19/2015

If I heard of someone I knew using BitCoins, I would assume he or she was a paranoid freak, or up to something illegal.

by Anonymousreply 7906/19/2015

DL is still waiting for the "bitchcoin"

by Anonymousreply 8006/19/2015

[quote]If I heard of someone I knew using BitCoins, I would assume he or she was a paranoid freak, or up to something illegal.

I'd think the person is technologically advanced and adventurous, and probably has extra money to put it in bitcoin. I haven't looked that deep into bitcoins but I see them quite unsafe still. Their value goes up and down.

by Anonymousreply 8106/19/2015

It's the only form of payment I accept.

by Anonymousreply 8206/19/2015

I pay my rent and most of my groceries with bitcoin.

by Anonymousreply 8306/19/2015

You can only buy it on the torrent web. You can't walk into BOA and buy it with US$.

by Anonymousreply 8406/19/2015

What property management company or grocery store takes bitcoin?

by Anonymousreply 8506/19/2015

Oh, r81, so you agree?

by Anonymousreply 8606/19/2015

R81 used to be famous here.

by Anonymousreply 8706/19/2015

R87, what are you on about?

R86, like I said when I hear someone using bitcoins I think the person is technologically adept but also a bit adventurous, not that the person is criminal or a tinhat. Criminals do use them, though, but I don't think someone is criminal for using them. Bitcoins are getting more common all the time though so not sure you have to be that adventurous anymore, at least if you're not putting all your savings into it.

by Anonymousreply 8806/19/2015

Bitcoins are for crooks, thieves, drug dealers, hookers, terrorists and dumb, paranoid assholes.

When Bitcoins crash and lose their value again - and they will - all those people will get exactly what they deserve.

by Anonymousreply 8906/19/2015

[quote]It's the only form of payment I accept.

It's bitcoin, not bitchcoin.

by Anonymousreply 9006/19/2015

not too sure of the details but someone who had some bitcoins on him got robbed or killed not sure, it was on the news, he was targeted because of bitcoin. google it.

by Anonymousreply 9106/19/2015

R83, that seems highly unlikely. CNN did a show about this and could barely find even a coffee shop in NYC that would accept Bitcoin. Maybe you meant you would like to use Bitcoin for rent and groceries, otherwise, you're lying.

by Anonymousreply 9206/20/2015
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