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Boston bomber update thread

Use this one.

by Anonymousreply 25103/07/2015

I've been keeping an eye on tumblr. I know... but I'm curious as to how this cult develops and it's kind of funny with the rumors flying around. A troll started a rumor on twitter saying Dzhokhar's penis had been shot off and that he was going to get a prosthetic penis, and many of the fangirls actually believed it.

Apparently they're saying one of Dzhokhar's sisters or something has contact with his lawyers. And that the lawyer has given her updates on his condition. It doesn't seem like anyone has actually bothered to confirm if this is true, though. Apparently he woke up and asked for a Qu'ran and that he had good manners and was even smiling. That sounds like bullshit. And today they said he had taken his first steps out of the bed, and that he couldn't hear with his left ear. They all seem to be eating this up, but obviously they believe nothing the media says, and everything some random person says on social media.

It's really interesting how these supporters can't seperate looks from personality and actions, though. I've read about a dozen variations of "I knew he was innocent once I saw the look in his eyes, he's an angel, we have to save him, he's probably crying all alone in his cell".

Although I do agree he looks hot, I don't really understand how they can't comprehend the difference. But he definitely is the Justin Bieber of terrorists.

His first hearing is on May 30th. Apparently the supporters are planning a protest outside the prison that day. I cringe at the thought of it... That will be embarrasing for the entire country to witness. I think they're actually planning to wear Guy Fawkes masks. Jeez.

Not sure whether the death pentalty or life in prison is more suitable anymore. I am generally against the death penalty, but something tells me it's better to just have him die sooner rather than later. A pity trials take so long in America.

In the meantime, enjoy his good looks.

by Anonymousreply 105/06/2013

Lookswise he's a WOW!

by Anonymousreply 205/06/2013

Browsing the Jahar tags on twitter will make you sad. The Free Jahar movement: believing everything they hear on twitter, complaining about their moms being mad at them, calling people who call them out 'haters', wondering whether Jahar sees their tweets and whether he knows they love him like they love him, calling each other bitches and making cliques, pitying themselves an awful lot because people 'hate' on them.

by Anonymousreply 305/06/2013

One of these fangurls will marry him. Probably one with money, like the other cray cray chicks with a fortune that have married other mass murderers like Richard Ramirez, etc.

Hell some chick in the UK married the gay mafia brother Kray.

by Anonymousreply 405/06/2013

According to Troy Crossley: Jahar's sister and a random twitter person spoke to Jahar and told him about his twitter fans! He loves you all!!xxxooo

I think parents will step in and stop their darling daughters before it gets to the protest on the 30th.

by Anonymousreply 505/06/2013

Troy Crossley has been offering to let the fangirls stay in his hotel room for the protest.

by Anonymousreply 605/06/2013

The picture of Dzhokhar in his sleeveless wrestling shirt, though grainy, is extremely hot.

by Anonymousreply 705/06/2013

What a waste.

by Anonymousreply 805/06/2013


by Anonymousreply 905/06/2013

Okay, so I haven't believed in conspiracy theories. Ever. But I found this article. Just... Just read this article.

I still don't believe in it, OK, but some of the things listed there are still weird as heck?

Those Craft guys were there before and after the bombings. So they were hired by the US to be security and step in if something happened, or what? 'Craft International is a Tactical Training Provider, which offers a wide range of services, and training to its Federal Customers. Their slogan is, "Violence does solve problems."' Ok, wow. What a strange bunch?

Now, the Operation Northwoods proposal was real, that's a fact, but it was rejected by Kennedy. I don't think the government could be clever or twisted enough to carry out a false flag operation. But it would maybe be smart of Obama to not be so harsh on whistleblowers (he's even exceeded Bush in that regard, actually), one could get the idea the government hiding something. I wonder where these conspiracies get their fuel, you know? Maybe because no one trusts the government?

by Anonymousreply 1005/07/2013

Please die, r10

by Anonymousreply 1105/07/2013

I actually have five o'clock shadow on my snatch.

by Anonymousreply 1205/07/2013

11. Hello there, a true American through and through. I didn't even say anything that wasn't true. Those Craft guys were in those photos from the start. I was trying to ask what the hell their deal is. Also, Operation Northwoods was real. So what exactly is your problem? Aren't true Americans supposed to question their government? I did say I don't think they're capable of doing such a thing, but I also said they DO hide things (see Bradley Manning and the other whistleblowers).

Is that really so unacceptable?

by Anonymousreply 1305/07/2013

[quote] Hello there, a true American through and through

Would I have to cut a slice and count the rings?

by Anonymousreply 1405/07/2013

You go first R11. No one is saying one should believe everything you hear, but being sheeple is exactly the kind of thing that's gotten us into deep shit in the past (hello Iraq invasion).

by Anonymousreply 1505/07/2013

Troy Crossley is now saying that he and two other friends are being allowed to visit Jahar in the prison hospital. He notes that the prison is only letting three of them in, though, which seems perfectly reasonable.

by Anonymousreply 1605/07/2013

(I'm R10) Yeah, exactly, 15. Like I said -- just to make it even more clear -- I don't believe it was a false flag, mainly what I reacted to in that article was Craft International, an organization I find strange. Go to and read for yourselves; it is real. They apparently can be contracted by "government customers" for various things (including security, which they were probably on the Boston marathon for). Their motto is "Despite what your mommma told you... violence does solve problems." It's just such a fucking strange motto for a serious organization involved with the government?! And that they have a skull for their logo? It sounds like something out of a game. I'm not saying it proves that they're evil or something like that, I'm just saying I find it strange. I've lived in several Scandinavian countries and to think of anything like that existing there would be absurd, but the US is a superpower, I guess...

by Anonymousreply 1705/07/2013

Ok, how can I know if that 4chan message from r10 is real and not photoshopped or if someone hasn't posted lots of such messages predicting different days and scenarios?

If that post is real, it's very creepy that they predicted Friday correctly! But how can I know?

Also in hindsight, if this was a staged even they should have probably found a less cute kid.

by Anonymousreply 1805/07/2013

[quote]Troy Crossley is now saying that he and two other friends are being allowed to visit Jahar in the prison hospital. He notes that the prison is only letting three of them in, though, which seems perfectly reasonable.

Who the hell is the Crossley character and how did he manage to inject himself into this? He'as a rapper? The fangirls actually believe the feds are going to allow some schmoe unrelated to Tsaernov who isn't a layer into the facility to visit him? And he's going to string them all along with tales of his visit with Jahar. Excellent!

by Anonymousreply 1905/07/2013

I'm R10, and well, that's just it, R18, it's hard. I never said I thought that was real, but I've seen it circulating a lot for a long time, I don't remember when I first saw it, though. Even if the original post was real and could be found (but it can't, since the poster deleted it), the content still couldn't be verified to be true. So yeah, it is pretty meaningless to obsess over this stuff, but personally I find it interesting to just know what's out there of theories.

by Anonymousreply 2005/07/2013

I saw the 4chan message on the night the FBI released the pictures but before the manhunt, on Reddit I think. But the stuff about the firearms, the NRA, and gunpowder turned out to be totally wrong: Tamerlan allegedly had a handgun--which ran out of bullets--and Dzhokhar was totally unarmed. The bombs are said to have been made with fireworks powder. Seems like the 4chan message was likely made by someone obsessed with the Second Amendment.

by Anonymousreply 2105/07/2013

"I Hope I Didn't Contribute To It" --I wasn't able to cut and paste the article.

by Anonymousreply 2205/09/2013

If he looked like a disgusting hairy old man instead of a hipster pin-up, nobody would be doubting his guilt.

by Anonymousreply 2305/09/2013

Another pic leaked of Dzhohkar, the Bieber of bombers. (He's locked away in jail awaiting certain death, his fate is sealed, I'm allowed to find his appearance cute.)

by Anonymousreply 2405/10/2013

That's hot r24. In fact all 3 are

by Anonymousreply 2505/10/2013

I've only seen one picture where he's genuinely smiling. In some cultures, smiling, particularly in photos, is much rarer than here. I wonder if that's the reason or if there is something else going on.

by Anonymousreply 2605/10/2013

He's far and away the prettiest one in R8's link.

by Anonymousreply 2705/10/2013

If anyone over the age of 20 is posting on this thread, you had better warn your friends about this Troy Crossley character.

I don't know him, but offering to have a bunch of girls stay with him doesn't sound quite right to me.

by Anonymousreply 2805/10/2013

Troy Crossley wants to be famous. But really, being famous for having teen girl fans who wants a terrorist free? That's gonna hurt his future career. "I'm 20 and a Rapper trying to make my dream come into a reality." Good luck...

by Anonymousreply 2905/10/2013

Jahar might genuinely be a good person who got mixed up in some bad stuff. But some of the things that fangirls--who didn't know him in person--are latching onto as evidence of his innocence are dubious at best. For instance, one of his tweets:

[quote]i didn't become a lifeguard to just chill and get paid, i do it for the people, saving lives brings me joy #lifeguardoftheyear

This could be genuine. Or it could be sarcasm. Who knows? The kid had a pretty wicked wit from what I've seen from his other tweets.

by Anonymousreply 3005/10/2013

Dzhokhar's friend, Baudy Mazaev, received a subpoena to testify before a grand jury.

Below is an interesting article. I'd like to know more about the family dynamics including the uncles.

by Anonymousreply 3105/15/2013

Nobody asks why they were given asylum. It's supposedly because ethnic Chechens are discriminated against by Kyrgs in Kyrgystan. Well, first off, they were no longer living in Kyrgystan when they got the ok to come to the US. Secondly, Kyrgs wouldn't dare mess with Chechens. Chechens are feared by almost everyone. They, to quote datalounge, are hardcore. They would not take shit from Kyrgs.

by Anonymousreply 3205/15/2013

Further to R30's POV, Jahar tweeted "I'm a stress free kind of guy" on the day of the bombings. Another example of his barbed wit.

Interesting that his friend is testifying. As a character witness perhaps? Is it possible that he will enter a plea of diminished responsibility? A Manchurian Candidate type of defense? Can you even do that in cases like this?

by Anonymousreply 3305/15/2013

There's a note.

The note, scrawled with a pen on the interior wall of the cabin, said the bombings were retribution for U.S. military action in Afghanistan and Iraq, and called the Boston victims collateral damage in the same way Muslims have been in the American-led wars. "When you attack one Muslim, you attack all Muslims," the note added.

Dzhokar said he didn't mourn older brother Tamerlan, the other suspect in the bombings, writing that by that point, Tamerlan was a martyr in paradise -- and that he expected to join him there."

Miller's sources say the wall the note was written on was riddled with bullet holes from shots fired into the boat. The shots were fired after Dzhokhar came up through the tarp covering the boat amid police fears that he had another bomb.

So, I guess he knew Tamerlan was dead.

That last paragraph in interesting. They shot at him after the tarp was cut by the robot. Presumably when he stood to surrender.

by Anonymousreply 3405/16/2013

R34, that's weird, though. He didn't have a gun on him after all, but he happened to have a pen, and the news of this note gets out a month later. I'm not saying anything, it's just weird they'd release this so late. Whatever.

From the HuffPo article:

In the last several years, there have been four other serious attempted or successful attacks on US soil by Muslims, and in every case, they emphatically all say the same thing: that they were motivated by the continuous, horrific violence brought by the US and its allies to the Muslim world - violence which routinely kills and oppresses innocent men, women and children:

Greenwald lists attempted "underwear bomber" Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, attempted Times Square bomber Faisal Shahzad, attempted New York City subway bomber Najibullah Zazi and Fort Hood shooter Nidal Hasan as examples.

"If the United States does not get out of Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries controlled by Muslims, Shahzad said during his guilty plea. "We will be attacking [the] U.S."


So sick of all these wars. Wish the West would just stay out of it. By far the most people who are killed in war are civilians. The drones in Pakistan and Yemen kill only a very small percentage of the actual targets, but hundreds of children. Each of those children has a big family, each family member has many friends and a whole lot more acquaintances...

Imagine how quickly the outrage over the death of just one child spreads to thousands of people. War only breeds more war. And the civilians down there are the ones targeted in their own country, they're trapped in their poor country, under attack, by a far more powerful and rich superpower, whose own civilians are not under attack, but are safe in the homes of their country. I can see where the revenge mentality comes from.

by Anonymousreply 3505/16/2013

Now Obama's under immense pressure from the media and Europeans to intervene in Syria; he's being called weak for not doing anything when his alleged "red line" was crossed.

Americans are incorrigible.

by Anonymousreply 3605/16/2013

The note could be seen as being written under great duress. After all, the guy thought he was bleeding to death and wanted to justify himself. The note was riddled with bullet holes. If Jahar wanted to kill himself like his brother, all he needed to do was stand there until they shot him to death. Now it seems like he is doing everything to avoid the death penalty. Bizarre.

How was he indoctrinated? His Twitter account is so fucking normal for the most part. It's like he assumed a cult mentality and went balls to the wind.

by Anonymousreply 3705/16/2013

Lawyers for Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev won’t be allowed to take periodic photographs of their client in prison to use as evidence of “his evolving mental and physical state.”

Tsarnaev’s lawyers argued images of his “injuries over time” would give evidence of “his evolving mental and physical state,” which could in turn be used in arguments about the “voluntariness” of his earlier statements, according to today’s ruling. Bowler didn’t specify which statements the legal team was referring to in their request.

I agree R37, bizarre. I wonder at what point did he decide not to follow his brother.

by Anonymousreply 3805/17/2013

[quote]The note, scrawled with a pen on the interior wall of the cabin, said the bombings were retribution for U.S. military action in Afghanistan and Iraq, and called the Boston victims collateral damage in the same way Muslims have been in the American-led wars. "When you attack one Muslim, you attack all Muslims," the note added.

Well, he makes a fair point. However, when you attack one American, you attack all Americans and we will fuck you up. Seriously.

by Anonymousreply 3905/17/2013

R38. "which could in turn be used in arguments about the “voluntariness” of his earlier statements," Which earlier statements are they referring to...? Do they mean how voluntary he was to do the bombing? Or how voluntary he was to give the statements he gave to the feds? And photographs could be used as arguments for that?

Another article about it below, where it's phrased a little differently.

"The defense wanted to document 19-year-old Tsarnaev's injuries and mental state while being held in federal prison to provide evidence of "the voluntariness of his statements" while under interrogation, according to court papers."

While under interrogation...?

by Anonymousreply 4005/17/2013

It sounds like they mean the 16 hours he was questioned before being mirandized.

The article linked, "Feds: more time needed to indict Tsarnaev."

by Anonymousreply 4105/17/2013

R41, ah, yeah, that article cleared it up a bit. It was just me who was slow I guess, I wondered how photographs of his present condition could suggest he didn't make voluntary statements during interrogation.

"Tsarnaev's lawyers could be trying to argue that statements he made to authorities after his arrest on April 19 were not voluntary because of his poor physical condition."

I thought he wasn't quite that badly injured.

by Anonymousreply 4205/17/2013

If they killed the MIT cop for his gun then why didn't they take his gun? What's the point in shooting him but leaving his gun behind?

by Anonymousreply 4305/17/2013

Did anything ever become of the murder investigation of the three friends of the older brother? It was an unsolved crime with strange circumstances and strange behavior by the older bro, IIRC.

by Anonymousreply 4405/17/2013

R43- I believe they could not get it out of the locking holster.

by Anonymousreply 4505/17/2013

I read he was shot in the head, neck, legs, and hand. He was drifting in and out of consciousness at the hospital. He seemed to heal quickly. Any news on how he is now? Is he talking?

Why would Dzhokhar's lawyers not want to share the photos with prosecutors?

by Anonymousreply 4605/17/2013

These brothers were dupes of the CIA...the most evil organization on earth.

by Anonymousreply 4705/17/2013

Concerned there won't be enough funds to go around for the victims.

Imagine how easily this would be solved if some of those A list celebrities that are so worshipped and respected, on this site too, simply for saying cute, moralistic things in magazines, would band together and give a tiny bit of their vast fortunes.

I usually try not to think about these things, because when I do I get so pissed. It's not jealousy as I don't have any problems myself, but I just can't see why the ones who have dozens of millions, for acting, not for busting their ass saving lives, for example, can sit back and feel good when just one of those millions could make such a huge difference.

by Anonymousreply 4805/17/2013

So they need more time to indict? It all sounded so simple at the beginning. Suspect confesses and everything is tied into a neat bow, including the triple murder. Curiouser and Curiouser.

Sounds like DT will use mitigation as defense. What do they mean by his 'evolving mental and physical state"? Is he suffering depression or has he stopped eating? Perhaps being on his own, away from the influence of his brother and possibly others has cleared his mind? His team are definitely going for a lighter sentence, they must feel somewhat confident on this level.

by Anonymousreply 4905/17/2013

$30 million in a month's time, R48? With donations still pouring in?

by Anonymousreply 5005/17/2013

NY Mag has an article about a WSJ investigation stating that authorities cannot find any evidence of multiple visits to Jihadist websites etc on DT's notebook nor can they find any other signs of radicalisation.

The feeling is increasingly that he was psychologically beholden to his brother and that while TT would have carried out the attacks without DT, DT would not have carried out the attacks on his own.

For some reason, DL is not allowing me to post a link so hopefully someone else can help out.

by Anonymousreply 5105/17/2013

r48, you are quite generous with other people's money. Personally, I think there are greater causes to donate to. Like villages without clean water.

by Anonymousreply 5205/17/2013

R52, all causes where less fortunate need help are important. I'm not a communist or anything, but I'm disgusted with celebrities who get 20$ for doing just one movie, and sit on a ridiculous fortune, while feeling good about themselves when giving away a tiny bit. What does one person need with all that money? How can they live with themselves when so much suffering is going on in the world? I just don't get it.

by Anonymousreply 5305/18/2013

This interview with Dzhokhar's uncle Ruslan Tsarni. It's interesting.

by Anonymousreply 5405/18/2013

Thanks for the link, R54. It really is interesting and should be watched in its entirety.

Uncle Ruslan seems like an honest guy. Everything he said about remembering them, while crying, really made an impression... He's a strict guy, like he said, and that Tamerlan, who used to look at him as a hero, suddenly dared to speak against him, tells a lot about Tamerlan and how arrogant he became. Also the kind of authoritative figure he must have been to Dzhokhar, after their father left for Russia. Ruslan repeatedly said that Dzhokhar was used by his brother, that he couldn't even be seen as an accomplice, just as a weapon controlled by his brother. This makes me curious as to what Dzhokhar will say in court, if the weight of what he did will crush him in the absence of his older brother, if uncle Ruslan was correct about his strong influence. Also, if Chechnya really had so little do with it, as Ruslan claims. That doesn't compute with Dzhokhar researching so much on Chechnya and writing on twitter things like 'Chechen pride' and how he wanted to go there.

by Anonymousreply 5505/18/2013

Does Ruslan explain how his brother the lawyer ended up fixing cars in Massachusetts?

by Anonymousreply 5605/18/2013

May I add that Ruslan is an international businessman with oil dealings in Kazakstan. Seems odd he couldn't give his Russian speaking lawyer brother a job.

by Anonymousreply 5705/18/2013

Maybe Ruslan hated his brother and wanted nothing to do with him. After all the whole family seems batshit. Johar seemed the only normal one and look what has happened to him.

Judging from his lawyers remarks about his evolving mental state, the weight of his guilt is probably fucking him up completely. I would be very interested to see him on the stand but I doubt that will happen.

by Anonymousreply 5805/18/2013

My impression of the uncle is that he recognized the agressive change in that whole family and decided to separate. Must have been quite the change.

by Anonymousreply 5905/19/2013

I don't really think Dzowhateverhar is all that cute. He looks peaked to me in all those photos.

by Anonymousreply 6005/19/2013

Even his nurses thought that Tsarnaev was cute. They were calling him "Hon' and had to remind each other that he was responsible for so many of the injuries that they were treating in the same hospital.

Doesn't exactly gel with the idea that he was unresponsive, sullen and hostile during his hospitalisation. The story is in the Boston Globe IIRC.

by Anonymousreply 6105/20/2013

R61, well, they didn't think he was cute, but they felt compassion for the 19 year old in pain they were treating.

"You see a hurt 19-year-old and you can’t help but feel sorry for him," one nurse told reporters.

I agree 100% with this comment:

"I have no problem with this. The fact they have empathy is exactly what I want in medical personnel. Unjudgemental care."

It's nice that they're doing their job properly. He'll still get his punishment.

by Anonymousreply 6205/20/2013

Ok, maybe 'cute' is taking it too far but calling a 19 year old 'hon' indicates a kind of automatic affection. I think the kid has charisma and that will help him.

A similar thing happened here in Australia when mass murderer Martin Bryant was taken to the same hospital as his victims. However hospital staff treated him robotically because of his chilling demeanour. Bryant was a coward, crying and whingeing about his injuries from the moment of his arrest. Nobody felt a shred of sympathy for him at all.

by Anonymousreply 6305/20/2013

Surviving Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has recovered enough to walk, his mother says.

In an interview for the Associated Press, Zubeidat Tsarnaeva said her son told her in a phone call that he and his brother, killed in a police manhunt after the blasts, were innocent.

Mr Tsarnaev, who was shot and injured during the manhunt, is currently being held in a prison hospital.

Last month's bombings left three people dead and more than 260 others injured.

Mrs Tsarnaeva told AP that it was the first conversation she had had with her 19-year-old son since he has been held in custody.

He told her he was getting better but was struggling to comprehend what had happened.

"He didn't hold back his emotions either, as if he were screaming to the whole world: 'What is this? What's happening?'" she said.

"I could just feel that he was being driven crazy by the unfairness that happened to us, that they killed our innocent Tamerlan."

The Tsarnaev family has continued to claim the men's innocence in the bomb attacks, which targeted the finishing line of the Boston Marathon on 15 April.

The family, who are ethnic Chechen Muslims from Russia, spoke from an apartment in the Russian republic of Dagestan which reportedly belonged to 26-year-old Tamerlan, who was hit in a shoot-out with police in the aftermath of the bombings.

The suspects' father, Anzor, said they bought the apartment in anticipation of Tamerlan and his family moving to Makhachkala, the capital of Dagestan.

"All I can do is pray to God and hope that one day fairness will win out, our children will be cleared, and we will at least get Dzhokhar back, crippled, but at least alive,' he told AP

by Anonymousreply 6405/30/2013

R64, for all we know the mother could be making that up, she seems the type... but if it's true, it's weird. Jihadists are proud fighters, they want everyone to know what they did because they see it as rightful, and don't fear death, it's unusual for them to claim innocence. The friend of Todashev also claimed he was innocent and that he feared a set up. What was the point of him lying AFTER Todashev was dead? Though I know that in Chechnya and the nearby Russian regions many people believe the US set up 9/11.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I don't believe 9/11 was a false flag, etc... But I do have a lot of questions and I'm curious about this whole story, that has so many strange twists.

Like Todashev, who wasn't armed after all. And apparently he'd recently had a surgery so he was using crutches. Okay? The FBI had to shoot him to death? Six bullets to the torso, one to the head. They're trained agents, they know how where to shoot so it won't be lethal. He could've had extremely valuable information about jihad training and cells. It pisses me off that they go about things with the "shoot to kill" instead of "hey we might wanna keep the only other goddamn suspect alive because he could have useful information that could save innocent lives in the future".

There's by the way also the videos of Tamerlan and Dzhokhar, during the shootout, shouting "we didn't do it". I link to one here, it isn't the full version, but still. I never thought much of it at first, but now I'm a little insecure. Could they possibly have got the wrong guys? It seems impossible but I can't deny there is a part of me that's insecure now. I heard the FBI has a video of them putting down the backpacks, if they do, I wish they'd release it.

by Anonymousreply 6505/30/2013

The father of the guy questioned and killed in Florida (Ibragim Todashev) gave a press conference and showed a picture of his dead son's hot (but dead) body.

by Anonymousreply 6605/30/2013

Gross. And gross to you, R66.

by Anonymousreply 6705/30/2013

I feel like there are a lot of legitimate open questions about this case and a lack of solid, ongoing investigative journalism. The crackpot conspiracy theorists and tumblr fankids have taken over the story and for some reason mainstream media has lost interest. It's disappointing. Is there a solid news source consistently staying on it that isn't a blog?

by Anonymousreply 6805/30/2013

Father Of Florida Man Connected To Tsarnaev: FBI Killed My Son ‘Execution-Style’ The father of a Chechen immigrant killed while being interrogated by the FBI about his ties to a Boston Marathon bombings suspect says agents killed his son “execution style,” reports AP. There was even a shot to the back of the head.

At a press conference Thursday in Moscow, Abdul-Baki Todashev showed journalists 16 photographs he said were of his son, Ibragim, in a Florida morgue. He said his son had six gunshot wounds to his torso and one to the back of his head and the pictures were taken by his son’s friend, Khusen Taramov.

WESH-TV is reporting that unidentified FBI sources now say that Todashev was unarmed.

UPDATE: Photo Here.


“I can show you the photos taken after the killing of my son. I have 16 photographs. I just would like to say that looking at these photos is like being in a movie. I only saw things like that in movies: shooting a person, and then the kill shot. Six shots in the body, one of them in the head,” Abdulbaki Todashev said at the press conference at RIA Novosti news agency in the Russian capital.


From RT:

His friend Khusen Taramov told the father that Ibragim had refused to come in for questioning on May 22, and instead asked the FBI agents to come and question him at home.

“Should something happen to me, call my parents,” Taramov quoted the last thing he heard from his friend.

On the day of Ibragim’s death, Taramov was questioned by the FBI separately on the street, and was refused entry back into his friend’s house, Todashev’s father claimed. He was “sent off” to wait in a nearby café on the grounds that Todashev was still being questioned and that “the interrogation would take a long time.” After some eight hours passed since the start of interrogation and his Todashev’s phone still was not answering, Taramov returned, only to find the street cordoned off with police cars and an ambulance.

“They tortured a man for eight hours with no attorney, no witnesses, nobody. We can only guess what was going on there, until there is an official investigation,” Abdulbaki Todashev said.

Referring to the Boston bombings, Todashev said his son believed it was a “set-up.” But Ibragim never sympathized with radical or terrorist ideas, and was not a follower of a radical Islam, he added.

by Anonymousreply 6905/30/2013

The mother is probably lying because I doubt Jahar would be allowed to call overseas. He would be in absolute lockdown with only access to his lawyers.

Maybe Jahar named Todashev as being present at the murders of the dealers? He doesn't want the death penalty and his lawyers describe his mental and physical condition as 'evolving'. My guess is he will express extreme remorse and do all he can to avoid Super Max hell.

Todashev may have been involved in the bombings which could explain him matrying (sp?) himself in front of the feds. The whole story seems to get stranger by the day.

by Anonymousreply 7005/30/2013


that article breaks my heart.

These guys were set up.

by Anonymousreply 7105/30/2013

The mother is a kook. On Huffpo she was saying that the kid was calm and said that he felt fine. If you ask me, her insanity can only help his defense. It will be brainwashing by big bro and crazy mum.

by Anonymousreply 7205/30/2013

Father Of Florida Man Connected To Tsarnaev: FBI Killed My Son ‘Execution-Style’ The father of a Chechen immigrant killed while being interrogated by the FBI about his ties to a Boston Marathon bombings suspect says agents killed his son “execution style,” reports AP. There was even a shot to the back of the head.

At a press conference Thursday in Moscow, Abdul-Baki Todashev showed journalists 16 photographs he said were of his son, Ibragim, in a Florida morgue. He said his son had six gunshot wounds to his torso and one to the back of his head and the pictures were taken by his son’s friend, Khusen Taramov.

WESH-TV is reporting that unidentified FBI sources now say that Todashev was unarmed.

UPDATE: Photo Here. AT LINK!


“I can show you the photos taken after the killing of my son. I have 16 photographs. I just would like to say that looking at these photos is like being in a movie. I only saw things like that in movies: shooting a person, and then the kill shot. Six shots in the body, one of them in the head,” Abdulbaki Todashev said at the press conference at RIA Novosti news agency in the Russian capital.


From RT:

His friend Khusen Taramov told the father that Ibragim had refused to come in for questioning on May 22, and instead asked the FBI agents to come and question him at home.

“Should something happen to me, call my parents,” Taramov quoted the last thing he heard from his friend.

On the day of Ibragim’s death, Taramov was questioned by the FBI separately on the street, and was refused entry back into his friend’s house, Todashev’s father claimed. He was “sent off” to wait in a nearby café on the grounds that Todashev was still being questioned and that “the interrogation would take a long time.” After some eight hours passed since the start of interrogation and his Todashev’s phone still was not answering, Taramov returned, only to find the street cordoned off with police cars and an ambulance.

“They tortured a man for eight hours with no attorney, no witnesses, nobody. We can only guess what was going on there, until there is an official investigation,” Abdulbaki Todashev said.

Referring to the Boston bombings, Todashev said his son believed it was a “set-up.” But Ibragim never sympathized with radical or terrorist ideas, and was not a follower of a radical Islam, he added.

by Anonymousreply 7305/30/2013

"They emphatically all say the same thing: that they were motivated by the continuous, horrific violence brought by the US and its allies to the Muslim world - violence which routinely kills and oppresses innocent men, women and children."

OK, if you hate what the US does, don't live here among Americans. Go live among your Muslim brothers in what are mostly badly run nations awash in corruption and violence. The US does kill Muslims, but Muslims do a lot of that too.

by Anonymousreply 7405/31/2013

R74, the American way is to win an election and put psychopaths like you in jail. America is full of idiots who don't realize an amoral clique of top Americans has been running around killing people for decades...more or less for fun, since none of their actions has ever been in the national interest.

by Anonymousreply 7505/31/2013

If the Tsarnaev brothers didn't do the bombings then why were they in a Chinese guy's suv?

by Anonymousreply 7605/31/2013

First the media reported that Todashev, according to unnamed "law enforcement officials," was killed by an FBI agent after pulling a knife on the agent, just as he was writing his confession to a crime unrelated to the Boston bombings. He had been interviewed for several hours, it was late at night, the FBI had interviewed him several times before, and suddenly he flipped out and attacked an FBI agent with a knife, forcing the agent to shoot him to death. Todashev was said to be an acquaintance of suspected Boston bomber, Tamerlan Tsarnaev

Only now we find out that Todashev had no knife at all. He was unarmed.

This came not long after law enforcement officers killed bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev and then tried to kill his suspected accomplice brother, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who was hiding, unarmed, in a boat.

Like the Todashev story, the earlier Dzhokhar Tsarnaev story was also a very "movable" narrative. Initially, Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davies claimed that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev engaged law enforcement officers in an hour-long gunfight from the boat in which he was hiding. Then it was reported that an M-4 rifle was found in the boat. Law enforcement sources claimed that the throat injury Dzhokhar sustained -- leaving him unable to talk possibly forever -- was self-inflicted.

All of these claims turned out to be untrue.

Then came word that somehow while the unarmed Dzhokhar was under heavy fire from law enforcement he managed to scribble a full confession to the Boston bombings, being particularly clear on his motives, on the inside of the boat.

The Daily Mail pointed out that this "confession" was "a critical piece of evidence for police as it reiterates what Dzhokhar said to them in the hospital after his arrest." But how could he have been able to "say" anything to police at the hospital if, as they reported, he was shot in the throat and could not speak?

This could all speak to the folly of the media continuing to print "unnamed sources" as if they were always purely factual, acting as mere stenographers for government authorities. But these initial false reports certainly seem an attempt to control the narrative and frame the perceptions of the masses while a fact-based counter-narrative slowly trickles out mostly unnoticed.

And it remains to be answered, why did the FBI kill the unarmed Ibragim Todashev in the early hours of Wednesday morning, the 22nd of May, after reportedly many previous interviews during which the FBI was "making up such crazy stuff"?

Twitter @DanielLMcAdams

by Anonymousreply 7705/31/2013

[quote]I don't think the government could be clever or twisted enough to carry out a false flag operation.

Fools like you make Dick Cheney's work so much easier.

by Anonymousreply 7805/31/2013

Any pics of Jahar's feets?

by Anonymousreply 7905/31/2013

They make it harder for Obama, too, R78

by Anonymousreply 8005/31/2013

Link to CNN report with clips of the video from the gym, where the brothers jump rope 72 hours before the bombing. It's kind of mesmerizing to watch Tamerlan because he's so skilled and well trained. Dzhokhar however is smaller than him and not skilled.

Also footage from when they enter the gym and are told by the manager to take of their shoes, Dzhokhar obeys immediately, while Tamerlan refuses and argues. The manager wanted him outta the gym cause he was so arrogant and difficult.

I have to admit I laughed hard when they mentioned his "full bushy religious beard" had gone. Still laughing at that description actually.

by Anonymousreply 8105/31/2013

I am glad that this thread is here, and I hope as more BS gets revealed that we can look back at how we were duped into believing the govt bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 8205/31/2013

Based on that short video, it's sad that tamerlan stopped boxing. Looks like he loved it.

by Anonymousreply 8305/31/2013

Interesting that Jahar immediately obeyed. Again, this could help his case. I read yesterday that the defense may use the drug killings as evidence of Tamerlan's hold over Jahar. Did he make the kid witness the murders so he could control him?

The confession on the boat is unlikely to hold anyway. Jahar was bleeding profusely and most likely totally out of it. 300 rounds or more were being fired at him. Such a bizarre and fascinating case. Thanks for the link.

by Anonymousreply 8405/31/2013

R83, yeah, I'm pretty sure boxing was what he based his life and dreams on. He was said to be the best boxer in New England, and he wanted to go to the Olympics. He wanted glory, arrogant as he was. So when he couldn't compete, he started focusing more on islam and probably wanted to find glory in jihad instead... or something.

It was kind of strange watching the clips and seeing how they smiled at each other and seemed mentally relaxed and normal just 72 hours before the bombing. Maybe they were excited and full of pride over what they were gonna do, after all jihadists see their fight as an honorful, righteous cause.

Tamerlan fits that. But it seems weird that Jahar told his mom he was innocent when jihadists are supposed to brag about what they did and be proud and fearless.

I do believe now that Dzhokhar really was very manipulated by his brother. Tamerlan seemed to cause arguments and fights wherever he went and was said to be a dominant figure in the household after their father left.

R84. "I read yesterday that the defense may use the drug killings as evidence of Tamerlan's hold over Jahar. Did he make the kid witness the murders so he could control him?" Hm, I didn't know Dzhokhar was even there, I thought it was just Tamerlan and Todashev. There wasn't any DNA found from Dzhokhar, was there?

by Anonymousreply 8505/31/2013

As an aside, Dzhokhar has generally been considered the cute/hot brother, but Tamerlan looks much hotter in that video.

by Anonymousreply 8605/31/2013

R86, oh yeah. The way Tamerlan handles that rope with such speed and ease, how physically fit he is, is hot. The light in that video didn't flatter Dzhokhar though. He is the cute one, Tamerlan is...uh, was... the hot, more masculine one. Just look at these pictures. His nose was crooked because of a boxing injury.

by Anonymousreply 8705/31/2013

Parents didn't look too bad either. Look at the father in this old pic, his face looks like the young Robert DeNiro in Taxi Driver.

by Anonymousreply 8805/31/2013

Tamerlan boxing interview. Russian accent.

by Anonymousreply 8905/31/2013

R82, here is the reality. That terrorist needs to be put to death.

by Anonymousreply 9005/31/2013

R85, it was reported (yeah, I know, so much reportage on this case has been bullshit) that Jahar's DNA has been sent for more intensive testing regarding his presence at the scene. Todashev did not mention him being there as far as we know. Perhaps Tamerlan boasted about his role in the killings or made Jahar help him dispose of his clothes etc. They must have been covered in blood.

What is interesting about the tape is that it graphically illustrates the phsycological and physical differences between the brothers. Tamerlan is strong, powerful and aggressive while Jahar is meek, obedient and painfully thin. The moment he looks at his brother when Tamerlan is going off at the guy off screen is kind of poignant to me. If the cops had arrested Tamerlan for the murders,it is highly likely that the kid would still be in college puffing on his weed and nobody else would have been hurt or killed. This is pure Dostoyevskian stuff.

by Anonymousreply 9105/31/2013

R91. "The moment he looks at his brother when Tamerlan is going off at the guy off screen is kind of poignant to me" Yes, exactly, I picked up on that look too.

Tamerlan basically seemed to have the right personality mix - arrogant, glory-seeking, dominating, unempathetic, aggressive - for developing into what he became. He just seems like one of those people who can't be content with a normal life, who has to make it big and achieve something meaningful. He was unemployed and had a child, most likely unplanned, so he would've felt like a loser if it weren't for the boxing. I'm pretty certain had he gotten to compete in the Olympics, chase that dream of glory, he would've focused intensely on that, he was an extremely dedicated boxer, he was most likely extremely disappointed that what he had worked up to and devoted himself to so much couldn't happen... and not've had to end up finding jihad as a way to get glory and take out his agression... ... That's probably oversimplifying it, but it does make a lot of sense. He radicalized himself, he sought it out himself. It takes a certain type of person to do that, and the right triggers. It reminds me of Nazi Germany and how many people who probably were normal people before the war got the ultimate circumstances to turn into the worst they could possibly be. They had seeds in their psyche that maybe would never have grown it weren't for that.

Though of course we can never really know exactly what they were like, it's interesting to speculate, it's interesting to think about what life circumstances, personality traits, relationships etc. that influences a person and makes them choose a negative path. Had Tamerlan gotten to focus his life on the Olympics he probably still would have been an arrogant asshole, but he might never have felt the need to fully devote himself to radical islam if he'd made it in life doing something else. And Dzhokhar I'm sure was never as intensely obsessed and focused on it as Tamerlan. They seemed complete opposites in that regard; Dzhokhar, from his twitter and friends, seemed not to have that kind of personality at all, but he seemed the type to be easily influenced. I wonder how he feels now that his brother's dead. Now he doesn't have his authoritative figure commanding him how to feel about things anymore. Maybe he really is as distressed as his mother claims.

by Anonymousreply 9205/31/2013

R90, all terror looks like that, including predator drone "collateral damage."

by Anonymousreply 9305/31/2013

Amen, R93-

People that think it's wonderful that we can kill women and children without risking damage to their person would be PISSED if they did the same to us.

Even if they were searching for a murderer and you just happened to look like him, they could kill you and ignore that they killed the children walking next to you.

Our Gov is OUT OF CONTROL!!!

by Anonymousreply 9405/31/2013

R94, do tell: What did the U.S. government do to Chechnya or Dagestan?

by Anonymousreply 9505/31/2013

Here's a place to start, R95, to learn how our gov has strained, armed, and betrayed Chechnya.

by Anonymousreply 9605/31/2013

Fucking Lew Rockwell. I should have known.

by Anonymousreply 9705/31/2013

Sibling dynamics are a crazy thing. Lots of people are different around their siblings than they are around friends. Took me years to learn to never take advice or direction from my dumbass older siblings. It's easy to fall into roles that were set as small kids. Makes me feel for Dzhokhar. By all accounts, and as evidenced by his twitter feed, he was a good-natured boy with potential. With his parents and sisters gone, he was left with tamerlan as the only family member in his daily life. We may never know what really happened here, but the family dynamic is yet another interesting aspect of this story.

by Anonymousreply 9805/31/2013

Is that your full rebuttal, R97?

Weaksauce mixed with Mustardadard.

by Anonymousreply 9905/31/2013

R95, I'm not R94, but: jihad is a global movement, the radical jihadists are united. Saudi Arabian jihadists went to Chechnya to fight in the wars, for example... and Chechen terrorists go to other countries to fight. Also what they have in common is they don't the US.

In this case, they pretty much sought out to radicalize themselves, but it IS important to understand the many different reasons why radicalization grows. An important reason is if the US kills innocent people with drones. It won't help, it will only put fuel to the fire. Only a very small percentage of actual militants are killed. The drones attack funerals and do follow-up attacks that kill those who run to help the victims. That's not ethical and many would consider that war crimes. I know many friendly, non-radical and even atheist former muslims, that are properly integrated and have jobs, but what's all common for them is that they disapprove strongly of the killing of innocents. They post videos on facebook of US soldiers mistreating muslims in wartorn countries and ask who the real terrorists are. That's all they see; they don't see it as "collateral damage". So imagine how the muslims in the actual wartorn countries feel. Probably pretty angry. We all know that when they've been asked what they don't like about America, they answer "US policies", not "freedom".

by Anonymousreply 10005/31/2013

It is great that we can discuss this emotional subject without hysteria or blood lust. It really is a fascinating case full of family drama and tragedy for both the perpetrator and his victims.

Jahar's lawyers are talking about an 'evolving' state of mind. Perhaps he is so stunned by his behaviour, now that Tamerlan is no longer in his life, that he has simply blanked out the details. He thinks he is innocent because he can't face reality. I hope we get to see a trial or perhaps the sentencing phase. There has been so much misinformation and spin, I wonder if we will ever get the full picture.

by Anonymousreply 10106/01/2013

That mother is a piece of work.

First she tells Bloomberg that during the first phone call, “It was really hard to hear him and for him to hear me. The conversation was very quiet." And that he said, "I am absolutely fine, my wounds are healing. Everything is in God’s hands. Be patient. Everything will be fine."

Then she tells AP, "He didn't hold back his emotions." And that he assured his parents in a phone conversation that he and his slain brother were innocent.

Now on her website she posted this:


by Anonymousreply 10206/02/2013

I don't want to be cynical, but didn't they buy a new apartment in their new apartment in a well-to-do area? Here are a couple of more posts.



Will this money she's soliciting affect Jahar's court appointed attorneys?

by Anonymousreply 10306/02/2013

Exclusive: Boston bombing suspect speaks - video

by Anonymousreply 10406/03/2013

Dzhokhar photos. From the video I think. In lack of real news updates... he's damn cute.

by Anonymousreply 10506/03/2013

The mother is insane to play that tape. What is she thinking? Trying to solicit for money. Jahar has the best death penalty defence lawyer in the country. Let her do her job. Maybe the mother wants her son to die. Why was he allowed to call? Did he receive the privilege for information? Can't wait for all the details to come out.

by Anonymousreply 10606/03/2013

If I were on the jury, I would never vote to convict Jahar. The would have a hung jury.

by Anonymousreply 10706/03/2013

Two wrongs don't make a right. Nothing justifies the trauma inflicted on those poor people at the marathon. Look at R90's linked photo again and THEN tell me you think any of the terrorists behind that atrocity look cute.

Pathetic contrarians, most of you. Crawl back into your holes, scumbags.

by Anonymousreply 10806/03/2013

Calm down. Very few people are suggesting that Tsarnaev should be acquitted. Nothing justifies the trauma inflected on any victims of bombings anywhere in the world. All we are doing is discussing the possible causative factors in this case.

Tsarnaev was a popular, attractive, laid back stoner who committed a heinous act that appears totally out of character. People are naturally going to want to talk about that. The amount of false and inaccurate reportage adds fuel to the fire. Your anger simply mimics the anger of those who feel justified in carrying out these atrocities. It solves nothing and continues a hateful cycle. Wait until the defense states it's case before howling for revenge.

by Anonymousreply 10906/03/2013

A legit attorney here in the US would never ask for a million dollars up front, so the mother is scamming. Seems like dzhokhar was a kid with some smarts and potential but was ultimately dragged down by his unstable, dirtbag, grifter family. The first comment out of the uncle's mouth is the truth - they are losers.

by Anonymousreply 11006/03/2013

"Seems like dzhokhar was a kid with some smarts and potential"

Again - what are you basing this on other than the fact that he's cute?

by Anonymousreply 11106/03/2013

He won a scholarship to a good college. His twitter feed is amusing and void of any douchebag-like comments that one would expect from a 19 year old guy. As soon as his name was announced but before he was caught, many high school friends, and at least one teacher came forward practically as character witnesses on CNN stating how nice, smart, etc he was. He had/has an extremely racially diverse group of friends. None of these observations has anything to do with his looks.

by Anonymousreply 11206/03/2013

UMass-Dartmouth is not a good college, r112.

by Anonymousreply 11306/03/2013

I also recall hearing that he worked summers as a lifeguard at Harvard and liked to play jokes on the swimmers. Also heard something about him volunteering with developmentally disabled kids while in high school. And he was a high school wrestler and co-captain of the team or something. Did the Sandy hook shooters or the Columbine shooters or any other recent terrorists or killers have backgrounds like this? The kid is an interesting case regardless of looks.

by Anonymousreply 11406/03/2013

R114, I could see how a terrorist could have an affable and winning personality, to the degree that he's able to compartmentalize or to distinguish between private citizens and the government he's targeting.

The recent perpetrators of multiple domestic stranger killings -- James Holmes, Adam Lanza, Jared Lee Loughner -- were all mentally ill and not as likely to have the opportunity to develop such a lovely sunny personality.

by Anonymousreply 11506/03/2013

of course the mother is seizing this opportunity to scam some serious dough...she's a thief! She was caught shoplifting. His sis-in-law was also caught shoplifting...

He is ugly! Have some standards people!

by Anonymousreply 11606/03/2013

601: No, it's that he was so out of it during the initial FBI interview. It is comparing his state then to his normalizing now.

I am neutral on it, but I think he was driven crazy by all of the horrible decor. Seriously, in all of the pics the decor in the homes is horrible.

by Anonymousreply 11706/04/2013

Jesus, that mother is a fucking trip!

I remember when she said that she didn't care if Jahar died because Tam was already dead.

Now Jahar is her life? GMAFB.

by Anonymousreply 11806/04/2013

I think the CIA talked the brothers into something...let them think they were helping the government. Our government propagates terrorism. Can't trust our war machine...they are lower then a snakes belly.

by Anonymousreply 11906/04/2013

;( Is she an adult?

by Anonymousreply 12006/04/2013

Apparently in the tape, Jahar told his mother that people are sending him money and that he has lots of money now. Who is sending him dough?

Interesting that he begged her not to say anything. I think he was worried that she would start raving on about Jihad and 'sacrifice'. Imagine growing up with that nutbag and a homicidal brother in the family.

by Anonymousreply 12106/04/2013

The kids on tumblr have been all about sending him letters and money. Hard to tell whether they have figured out the correct address, inmate number, etc. Could be the uncle or jahar's real friends funding it.

Also, isn't the father's demeanor strange in every video that's been released of him? Maybe he just seems like a quiet cuckold next to that crazy shrew wife. And where is their furniture?

by Anonymousreply 12206/04/2013

R122, they both seem like they're either in denial of their sons' guilt and gone crazy because of the grief, or they must have known about it or something and are proud of their sons, they're now with Allah etc.

It seems very common in Chechnya to believe in set-ups because of their own long history with the corrupt Russian government, so I wouldn't put it past them to actually believe their sons were set up... But I don't get how they can be foolish enough to think money will help Dzhokhar. It's either that, or they're cold enough to make money for their own personal gain off their own son's tragedy.

by Anonymousreply 12306/04/2013

The father is a headcase in his own right. One day he suddenly announced he had cancer and took off for Germany. He either didn't go to Germany at all or left there for Dagestan. Then the parents divorced. IIRC, he used to piss off his neighbours in Boston by using their garbage bins and taking all the available parking spaces for his shitty cars. He also used to openly steal stuff from scrapyards. Charming. I wouldn't be surprised if he smacked his wife and kids around too. Tamerlan must have learnt that from somewhere.

As for mum, she suddenly turned to Allah. It happened fast and with extreme devotion. Apparently Tamerlan took the brunt of it at first, but Jahar also must have been subjected to it. I think he tried very hard to seperate his school life from his home life but in the end, the dominant force of his mother and brother proved too strong. Now his mother is doing her best to have her youngest killed too. What a family!

by Anonymousreply 12406/04/2013

Huffpo reporting that the parents have been questioned by American authorities again this week. Coincidence that this occured after mom played the tape of her son's conversation to the world?

by Anonymousreply 12506/06/2013

R125, I wonder if it had anything to do with her telling the reporter from channel 4 that Dzhokhar was supposed to go to Dagastan on April 18. Days after the marathon, weeks before school ended for the semester.

by Anonymousreply 12606/08/2013

Mom is now stating that Jahar was shot five times in the left arm and is retracting her claims that he was tortured in jail. I wonder if he is left or right handed? If left handed, it would be pretty difficult for him to have written the 'note'.

by Anonymousreply 12706/15/2013

[quote]Mom is now stating that Jahar was shot five times in the left arm

His mom has said a lot of crazy shit, almost all of it untrue.

by Anonymousreply 12806/15/2013

[quote] It seems very common in Chechnya to believe in set-ups because of their own long history with the corrupt Russian government

Chechnya is one of the most corrupt places on earth. They didn't need the Russians to show them how to do set ups or how to be corrupt. These are ancient societies that have been clannish and feuding since before Islam, before Christianity and even before the Roman Empire.

by Anonymousreply 12906/16/2013

Here is a blog written by a Chechen living in exile in the US. Read how grateful he is to be living here -- he revels when wildfires burn parts of the country. (I once told my friends that I believed that increasing wildfires could be terrorism , for it is a kind of economic terrorism. They laughed. This guy calls for more wildfires to be set).

Of course, the US has done nothing to harm Chechens, but that doesn't stop them wanting to burn us to the ground.

by Anonymousreply 13006/16/2013

Actually, this is the Chechen exile. The other poster was writing about Chechnya.

by Anonymousreply 13106/16/2013

The looney tunes are coming out to protest across from the courthouse on July 10. Fangirls, conspiracy times.

by Anonymousreply 13206/23/2013

129, Chechnya has been feuding with Russia since the 1600s. Russia is the corrupt big superpower who has oppressed them for generations. The best way to breed terrorism is to attack the culture and independence of a country. Ethnic cleansing.. Stalin deported 1,5 mill Chechens from their country. Chechens are therefore pround and won't stop fighting for their native country like their ancestors did before them. Russia's reason for denying Chechnya independence was because of oil. It's always about national interests, money, for the big imperialist superpowers.

Linking to an article about the latest years. "As an ethnic group, Chechens had been mistreated by the Soviet regime, and the Russian empire before it, perhaps worse than anyone else."

At this point I shouldn't care anymore. People are so fucking dumb they think superpower countries can mess around in other poorer countries without breeding hatred and violence there and not have to apologize and just expect them to get over it. Everyone can be glad they're living safely without having to worry about poverty, corruption and fucking drones flying over their little villages, like in Afghanistan etc. Everyone has the prilevege of living in peace, not being attacked or oppressed by a bigger country, so shut up about judging other countries as evil, without knowing anything about them. If you're not interested in understanding, then shut up bout it. Probably most Americans STILL believe the Boston bombers were from Czechoslovakia, and not Chechnya, there were articles about people sending hate to Czechs. Typical.

by Anonymousreply 13306/24/2013

Someone who talks to the mothe posted this:

[quote]She finally saw the original of Dzhakhar’s medical records. Doctors describe 16 (!!!!) wounds in total, most of them are really tough wounds. His face is deformed from left side (left eye is kind of half-closed now like Stallone has got) due to the bullet wound to his neck (bullet went out through the left cheek, tearing the cheek), hos jaw was badly demolished, doctors just combined it as a puzzle somhow. Left ear does not hear at all so far. Knife-like wound goes from the top of his neck down hearly to the chest (to collarbone). Wounds in the left arm (too many), both legs and upper back (scapula). Nobody is going to give Zu the original of these records. The worst thing is - the judge does not want Dzho’s medical records to be presented to the court at all. She insists on it

by Anonymousreply 13406/26/2013

* mother

by Anonymousreply 13506/26/2013

Thanks for the update. So many injuries. Guess he won't be such a cutie to the fangirls now and they will desert him in droves. A good thing because God knows that the sight of them mewling around outside the court will do him no favours at all.

The cut on the neck is interesting. Could Tamerlan (who loved his knives, as the Watertown killings attest) have stabbed him in the neck to matyr him before jumping out of the car and running towards the police?

by Anonymousreply 13606/26/2013

Sorry, forgot to add that the same source above states that the mother didn't answer Jahar's calls from jail and he had to call his dad. The source implies it was just a mistake but considering the feds visited shortly after the first call...

by Anonymousreply 13706/26/2013

If his mother wants his medical records submitted into the trial, she should come here and argue that with the court.

Oh,wait. She cant do that because the minute she steps off a plane she will be arrested for being the scam artist grifter she is.

by Anonymousreply 13806/26/2013

I saw that R137. I think she caused problems with that call too.

What didn't make sense is the source says the mother has two cell phones, one the media has used to contact her and a second number, the one this source has, that she always picks up. Why wouldn't Dzhokhar have the second number?

by Anonymousreply 13906/27/2013

The indictment against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.

by Anonymousreply 14006/27/2013

Chechnya is like Afghanistan -- an ancient area with ancient blood feuds, chicanery, alliances, betrayals, double-dealing and plain blood thirstiness. They did not need the Russians to show them corruption. They have existed since long before vikings ever settled in Russia and have been fighting among themselves and their neighbors since before Jason went in search of the Golden Fleece.

Stalin knew what he was doing when he banished them. They fought with the Nazis. If the Nazis had won the war, they would have joined Russian partisans in fighting the Nazis. They'll fight anybody, for any reason. This is not a peace-loving part of the world.

If you don't believe me, go for a visit. Visit all over the Caucasus and Central Asia. See what the culture is like. Especially you women.

Fact is, this family is typical. Stealing, whether from junkyards or employers or the state, is not only ok, it's admirable. The majority of Russians want to be rid of the Caucasus.

by Anonymousreply 14106/27/2013

Bride kidnapping is alive and well in Chechnya.

by Anonymousreply 14206/27/2013

Bride abductions are an endemic phenomenon in the Caucasus and Central Asia. In Chechnya alone, rights activists say as many as one in four marriages begins with the woman being kidnapped and forced to wed against her will.

The social stigma attached to spending the night in a man's house -- or even just a few hours before being rescued -- is enough in deeply traditional societies like Chechnya, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan to shame a woman into marrying her abductor.


The Chechen president pretends to be against bride napping, but it's too deeply ingrained in society. And the president encourages polygamy, which is legal.

by Anonymousreply 14306/27/2013

Why doesn't Jahar have a mugshot by now?

by Anonymousreply 14406/27/2013

So Jahar's bomb killed the Chinese student too, along with the little boy. Such a tragedy and a complete waste.

The indictment reveals some new things. Jahar downloaded the bomb making info. Jahar went to a firing range with Tamerlan some weeks before and used his name to rent the guns. Jahar bought a pre paid phone just prior to the bombings and used a fairly obvious fake name. It charges him with killing the poor cop even though there was only one gun and Tamerlan admitted the shooting to the hostage. It says that they had bombs,one gun, ammo, a machete and a hunting knife with them. Jahar destroyed both of his phones when he fled the car before hiding in the boat and he scrawled some telling messages within.

They include " I cannot stand to see such evil go unpunished" and "Stop killing innocent civilians". He also wrote that it wasn't right to kill innocent people but it is allowed under certain conditions and he says that if America stops the killing then 'we will stop'. It sounds so teenage and naive. They only started planning the attack in Feb. Jahar made the journey from a funny, charming stoner to a multiple killer in such a short time.


by Anonymousreply 14506/27/2013

[quote] Jahar made the journey from a funny, charming stoner to a multiple killer in such a short time.

To his friends he may have seemed like a charming stoner, but within his family? Within society at large? Nobody knows. Tamerlane knew, but he's dead. His mother knows, but she is a double-talking thief and liar. His father thieved as well. They all took welfare when they were capable of working. They were all thieves. They were all lazy. No ambition. Drifting. They were grifters, and they were not western grifters. They were grifters from a part of the world that America doesn't understand at all. They'll always lie to and try to cheat outsiders. Always. That's the culture. Outsiders are always to be mistrusted; infidels are to be duped.

by Anonymousreply 14606/27/2013

The indictment also said his actions caused the serious injuries of that transit officer. Interesting wording since that officer was reportedly injured by friendly fire.

As a side note, the contrast in public reaction to Jahar vs. The black girl witness in the Trayvon Martin case is interesting. He has benefited from being a cute white boy in that he gets the "He's one of us...he would never....justice for Jahar" treatment. Public reaction to this black girl from Miami,who is not on trial, has mostly been along the lines of "She's a disaster...she doesn't look like us or talk like us..she's ugly....we can't understand what she's saying...the jury will never relate to her." It's very sad and superficial.

by Anonymousreply 14706/27/2013

Here's an example of Chechen life, examining bride stealing (grabbing a young woman off the streets. Sometimes at gunpoint).

The mullah starts off telling about how angry all the people are at bride abduction. Then, he

by Anonymousreply 14806/27/2013

I totally get you R146 but Jahar worked. He had a job at Harvard's swimming pool and his boss who was a former Navy guy IIRC, praised him for his work ethic and good attitude.Jahar was assimilated as much as he could be under the circumstances. He seems to have known his family were batshit. Friends who really knew him have described his relationship with Tamerlan as tense and he repeatedly asked friends to accompany him whenever he saw his brother.

Something went down around the end of 2011. It coincides with the triple murders. Jahar never settled into college, his grades collapsed, he stopped hanging with his American friends and his twitter became shot through with posts about apocalyptic dreams. In Feb, just as planning began, he dreamt of killing Lincoln. It is too easy to write him off as a blind fanatic. I think fear drove him but fear of what or whom is the question.

by Anonymousreply 14906/27/2013

Do go on, r148!

by Anonymousreply 15006/28/2013

Have they executed that little fucker yet?

by Anonymousreply 15106/28/2013

Reported June 23

Ms Tsarnaeva says that she is planning to return to the US next month for Dzhokhar's court hearing. She has an American passport after she and her husband Anzor took their family to the US in 2002. It will be her first trip back since the bombing and she says she is nervous, but wants to support him.

June 25, Zubeidat Tsarnaeva said she received phone calls warning her that her and her husband's presence in the United States would worsen Dzhokhar's situation.

Tsarnaeva declined to say who exactly called her.

Who do you think called her?

I think she'd say if it was the lawyer.

by Anonymousreply 15206/29/2013

An immigration judge has ordered a potential witness in the investigation into the fatal shooting of a Chechen man by an FBI agent last month to leave the United States no later than July 1, and to remain in jail until she departs.

by Anonymousreply 15306/29/2013

The mother is a fantastist R152. She is too scared to go back because of the shoplifting charges. Cowardly bitch. She abandoned her youngest son into the care of a triple murderer and totally destoryed his life and the lives of his victims.

The whole Todashev shooting thing is suspicious. The silence from the media is very strange. Why no more news on the Watertown slayings?

Further to the Chechen stuff. Somebody was saying on Slate IIRC, that Tamerlan was trying to recruit people in Dagestan, failed and came home to use his brother instead. It seems that Tamerlan thought he could get away with the attacks, return to Chechnya and join something called "The Forest People". He wanted to join as a leader and felt that the attacks would do the trick.

One more thing, If Chechens are so bad ass, and unrepentent, why did Jahar provide an excuse for his actions in the boat note? He wrote that he did not like killing innocent people. What Chechen Jihadist would make excuses for himself? One young life totally fucked, four more lives gone and hundreds injured. What a complete waste.

by Anonymousreply 15406/29/2013

A weird side note. CNN reported that the FBI while investigating the calls Jahar made prior to the bombing, discovered that he called Carnival cruises in Jan and asked about rates and rooming policies. He wanted to know if men and women could share a room and whether or not fish could flop up onto the ship. WTF? Could he have been that naive? No wonder he fell for his brother's bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 15507/01/2013

WTF are you talking about, R155?

Although, didn't they ask the guy they carjacked if the car could be driven to NY?

by Anonymousreply 15607/02/2013

I hope he doesn't get the death penalty or life in prison. Just because he was brainwashed or made to do those things by his brother, doesn't mean his entire life should be ruined.

by Anonymousreply 15707/02/2013

June last year tweeted

[quote]ahaha the shit that comes up when i type in my name in google.. i have stalkers??? shits crazy

shit didn't even get close to the crazy that's out there now.

by Anonymousreply 15807/03/2013

Are there nudes yet?

by Anonymousreply 15907/03/2013

No shit 156. It was on the CNN twitter feed. Bizarre stuff hey? Tamerlan asked the guy to drive them to NYC. Jahar kept his yap shut unless big bro told him to speak (apart from asking how much the car was worth).

Amen, R158. Tumblr is off the charts. Love poems, love songs, total denial of his guilt. They won't even countenance the brainwashing theory. They claim Tamerlan is innocent too! Little fools. There are lots of new photos though if you want to stare into Juniors big dark eyes....

by Anonymousreply 16007/03/2013

If there can be a topless Bea Arthur, why not a bottomless Jahar?

by Anonymousreply 16107/04/2013

Friend of the Tsarnaev sisters, Britney Smith, made a video.

Part 1

by Anonymousreply 16207/06/2013

Part 2

by Anonymousreply 16307/06/2013

More info about the shooting of the MIT cop. ABC news reported that there is tape of the two brothers creeping up on the car. Tamerlan pulls open the door and shoots five times without hesitation. Jahar tries to remove the gun to no avail. The pair flee when passers by approach. Tamerlan was a stone cold killer. Did Jahar know his brother was going to kill the police officer or did he grab the gun in a panic? Horrifying.

by Anonymousreply 16407/06/2013

Will Dzhokhar plead guilty or not guilty at his arraignment July 10?

by Anonymousreply 16507/07/2013

lmao at the new videos of a friend defending this little cunt. I love how they all assume the idiot brothers were framed, yet none of them address why, if they were innocent, that they would flee from cops and have a shootout/scuffle. Why would the sweet innocent younger brother hide in a boat if he did nothing wrong? People are so stupid these days.

by Anonymousreply 16607/07/2013

Watertown police describe shootout.

by Anonymousreply 16707/08/2013

The CIA always has a reason. Of course the brothers were framed.

by Anonymousreply 16807/08/2013

Interesting that it was Tamerlan who remained in total control. The cops state that he fired the gun and that he threw the bombs. Jahar appears to have driven at them in a blind panic.

R166, the compelling aspect of the case is the influence Tamerlan had over Jahar. How did this boy mentally disintegrate to the point where terrorism became the only option and why didn't his so called best friends realise something was wrong?

The mechanic who saw Jahar the day after the bombings described him as being so nervous that his legs were shaking back and forth, he was biting his fingers and appeared so wild eyed that the mechanic thought he was high. Somehow he calmed himself down enough to interact with his fellow students and friends but several have stated that he appeared blank eyed and distracted. The total waste of a young man's life and the carnage he caused seemingly to please his murderous older brother is fascinating and disturbing.

R 165, my guess is he will plead guilty to ensure a deal can be made. He is already receiving a number of benefits in jail that one would think would be denied to a terrorist suspect. Perhaps he is already singing to ensure his survival.

by Anonymousreply 16907/08/2013

so the little cunt was officially arraigned today.

by Anonymousreply 17007/10/2013

I hope they don't throw the book at him and give him the death penalty or life in prison. He should serve at most about 10 years and then be allowed to get on with his life. It was his brother that was behind the whole thing, not Jahar.

by Anonymousreply 17107/10/2013

Hopefully he wastes as much money as possible from the govt. I still believe the boston bombing was a false flag. Fuck this shit! they'll probably kill him in prison. But I can only hope.

by Anonymousreply 17207/10/2013

R170 oh great another Dzhokhar fangurl. He is not a baby and knew full well what he was doing. I'm less than 10 years older than him. I remember when I was 19-if someone, even a close friend or relative, wanted me to join in on committing terror, I would never agree. He's the same age group as the Manson kids who went along with Charlie. Young yes, but not children. They knew it was wrong to go killing people. I don't feel sorry for the piece of shit at all. He deserves life in prison.

by Anonymousreply 17307/10/2013

meant to say R171 is the fangurl.

R172 you're just as crazy.

by Anonymousreply 17407/10/2013

It seems like he is losing his mind. Wild hair, unbuttoned jumpsuit,twitching, wiping his nose and mouth over and over, answering in a thick Russian accent etc. Friends have said they did not recognise the young man in the court room. The not guilty plea is likely a tactic regarding plea bargaining. Without Tamerlan and crazy mom, Jahar is breaking down.

by Anonymousreply 17507/10/2013

NYT has an article about Tamerlan's involvement in the triple murder in Waltham. Some law enforcement authorities feel that if he had been arrested for the murders, the bombings would not have taken place.

by Anonymousreply 17607/10/2013

R173, weren't the Manson kids drifters with criminal records? I am not up to speed on their histories but were any of them in college at the time and did their friends and teachers speak highly of them?

What would you do if your brother cut the throats of three people, including his closest friend? I think, given the guy's character, that TT would have boasted of this to his younger brother. Everything started to fuck up for DT in the aftermath of these murders, culminating in the bombings. The trial, if there is one, will likely touch on this. Either way, the high school popular boy is gone forever.

by Anonymousreply 17707/10/2013

The reports were that this cunt acted "disinterested" during the arraignment. He smiled and blew a kiss to 2 women who were wearing headscarves. Clearly, he still doesn't seem to feel as if this crime he had a hand in was wrong. It may take time but he'll have a lot of it on his hands after the trial.

R177 the normal, but difficult thing to do is turn your brother in. I would feel guilty if I knew someone close to me killed people yet I turned a blind eye. By the time people are teens, they know right from wrong, especially if he was "normal" back then.

by Anonymousreply 17807/11/2013

R178, the two women are his sisters, one was audibly crying. He smile at them and blew them a kiss as he was led away after the arraignment.

by Anonymousreply 17907/11/2013

Can he speak? Does he have a scar on his throat?

by Anonymousreply 18007/11/2013

He can speak. The judge had him, rather then his lawyer, say not guilty. What's odd is that they say he answered with a Russian accent.

Didn't his lawyers want to take photos of him to provide evidence of 'his evolving mental and physical state'?

Since everyone said he didn't have an accent I wonder if it's part of the evolving mental state.

Someone took video in the overflow room. Here's the link.

by Anonymousreply 18107/11/2013

Why doesn't he have a mugshot?

I assume we'll see one and with his head shaved?

by Anonymousreply 18207/11/2013

R178. Tamerlan slaughtered those guys. The crime scene was horrific. We know just from the gym video alone, that Tamerlan was a powerful and intimidating presence. I am not excusing Jahar, he deserves severe punishment, but take the emotion out of the case and try and imagine living with the fear that your brother could do the same to you and possibly your friends if you crossed him in any way. Something triggered this kid, something beyond radicalisation. Hopefully the trial will reveal all.

The smirking was revealed to be a lie. The guy's face is frozen on the left side, making smiling difficult. Yeah, he smiled at his sisters who were shocked by the sight of him. Sounds like he was doped to the gills but anxiety was pushing through the drugs.

Jahar wants to live btw, he has just asked for a third death penalty expert to be appointed. My feeling is that Tamerlan will be the focus of the defence, perhaps the Waltham killings will factor too? This case is like a Greek tragedy in many ways. Victims and perpetrator alike.

by Anonymousreply 18307/15/2013

Rolling Stone has Jahar on the cover. Anyone with the issue?

by Anonymousreply 18407/16/2013

This may be the better thread to post this.

Photos of Dzhokhar's surrender have been released.

Sgt. Sean Murphy, a tactical photographer with the Massachusetts State Police who has photographed the funerals of many officers killed in the line of duty, is furious with the magazine. Murphy, who also acts a liaison to the families of fallen officers, is so angered by the cover—which he says is both dangerous and insulting to the victims of the bombings—that he feels the need to counter the message that it conveys.

by Anonymousreply 18507/18/2013

R184, I don't know if the magazine is out yet, but they put the article up on their website.

by Anonymousreply 18607/18/2013

Thanks so much 186. You can also find the article on the tumbler sites. You have to wade through a lot of fangirl hooha but it is there too.

Amazing photos R185, but I doubt they will dampen down empathy for DT. If anything it illustrates the condition he was in when he wrote his "confession". You can see him writing on the walls through thermal imaging in the PBS report about the hunt for him. Jahar startd writing while under fire about 15 hours after escaping.

DT appears ashen faced from blood loss and critically injured. If he had left the boat screaming Jihadist slogans or trying to get himself shot would be one thing, but he is obedient, compliant and passive. He came out after he was assured that he wouldn't be hurt. The guy doesn't behave like a rabid terrorist at all.

by Anonymousreply 18707/18/2013

I don't know if this link to tumor will work, but...

Holy crap the mother changed! In the second photo she looks like Joyce DeWitt.

Also, how old we're the sisters when they started having kids?

by Anonymousreply 18807/19/2013

[quote] I am not excusing Jahar, he deserves severe punishment, but take the emotion out of the case and try and imagine living with the fear that your brother could do the same to you and possibly your friends if you crossed him in any way

Or... Jahar went with him and helped murder the three men.

Where have the police and prosecutors said they don't believe Jahar took part in the crime?

by Anonymousreply 18907/19/2013

I haven't seen any bottomless photos, R161, but he has nice arms in this one.

by Anonymousreply 19007/24/2013

There were multiple reports when Todashev was shot by the FBI. All of them , without exception, stated clearly that Todashev only implicated Tamerlan. Google them. None of the reports stated that DT was involved in the killings. Tamerlan was a fucking killer pure and simple. He slaughtered those three guys, shot Collier five times in cold blood without hesitation and flew at the cops like a fury when he jumped out of the SUV.

DT obeyed his brother without question as per the hostage's statement, was unarmed, was not named by the police at the scene as having thrown bombs (Daily Mail interview), fled the scene and hid in a boat and then gave up meekly as the new shots attest. Yes, he left a bomb at the marathon and deserves heavy punishment for his involvement but don't confuse him with his older brother. He should be tried in his own right but it looks like he will be made to pay for Tamerlan's sins too.

by Anonymousreply 19107/25/2013

Will Kathrine Russell testify during Dzhokhar's trial?

by Anonymousreply 19207/26/2013

F.B.I. Said to Conclude It Could Not Have Averted Boston Attack

by Anonymousreply 19308/01/2013

What was Tamerlan Tsarnaev's motive for the 2011 killings?

by Anonymousreply 19408/01/2013

I don't know R194, but the balls that guy must have had to believe he's being watched by the FBI and then go murder those three guys (if he did kil them).

by Anonymousreply 19508/01/2013

Father of Slain Chechen Plans to Sue FBI for Son’s Wrongful Death.

He plans to file a wrongful death suit, not to seek financial compensation, but to force the FBI to reveal the facts of his son’s death.

by Anonymousreply 19608/05/2013

How is Jahar going to get a fair trial with all the publicity in this case? He isn't going to be able to get one, which is fair.

by Anonymousreply 19708/05/2013

[quote]He isn't going to be able to get one, which is fair.

It's fair that he [bold]won't[/bold] be able to get a fair trial? Is that what you mean? How is that fair?

by Anonymousreply 19808/05/2013

I meant to say isn't fair.

by Anonymousreply 19908/05/2013

I think the motive for the killings was to teach Jahar the 'right' way. Making him witness the murders, perhaps even making him pour the dope over the bodies and leave the money. Tamerlan hated Jahar's drug use, and petty dealing. He may have already have been planning some kind of Jihadist event and wanted to make his brother beholden to him without question. Todashev was also a fanatic. He used to go to Tamerlan's gym and they used to make a spectacle of themselves praying together and berating non believers according to the cute gym owner.

Imagine watching your brother rip those guys apart and then basically get away with murder. What would it do to your head? Jahar's behaviour in the aftermath of Waltham mirrors his behaviour in the aftermath of the bombings. He went back to acting as normal as possible, almost as if by acting normal then nothing really happened.

It is just a theory, I know but something broke inside that kid over the last two years. A traumatic event like the multiple killings could trigger split behaviour and a sense of hopelessness. He mentions suicide three times in his tweets, along with catastrophic nightmares and insomnia. His best friend Baudy stated that Jahar couldn't get out of bed last year because he was so depressed but wouldn't say what was troubling him. I think it all goes back to Waltham and those killings.

by Anonymousreply 20008/05/2013

Excellent Doco on the BBC about the brothers. It said that Tamerlan was obsessed with ultra right wing sites that espoused white supremacy, anti Semitism and all round paranoia. He also was reading how to influence the thinking of those around him which could be how he broke Dzhokhar down. Tamerlan was also fascinated with mass murder and how to kill without emotion. It looks like he was a pyscho looking for a cause and extremist Islam showed him the way.

Rumours on tumbler that Dzhokhar had a latina/black girlfriend who is in hiding. If Tamerlan knew about her, could he have threatened her safety to convince his brother to help him? It also appears that when he woke in hospital he was paranoid about the safety of his best friend Baudy. He kept asking if he was alive and OK. Could Tamerlan have threatened him too? If Dzhokhar knew his brother had killed before he would probably do anything to protect those closest to him.

Also, Dzhokar is allowed to call his mad mom every week now. Why the special treatment? This is the case that just keeps on giving.

by Anonymousreply 20108/05/2013

WSJ article, part 1:

BOSTON—Extremist U.S. newspapers and other publications found in the apartment of Boston Marathon bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev reveal a broad interest in far-flung conspiracy theories, well beyond the Islamist radicalism authorities allege motivated the attack.

Mr. Tsarnaev discovered some of the radical publications by chance. He had worked caring for a 67-year-old man who passed on the newspapers and his fringe beliefs long before Mr. Tsarnaev and his brother allegedly set off explosives that killed three people and injured hundreds more.

Boston Marathon bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev was 26 when he died on April 19 in a firefight with police. Tamerlan Tsarnaev was 26 years old when he died on April 19 in a firefight with police. His 19-year-old brother, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, has pleaded not guilty to federal charges. The brothers are also suspected of killing a police officer.

The previously unreported connection between Mr. Tsarnaev and the elderly man adds a new complexity to a case that authorities have described as homegrown terrorism. Although investigators say the immigrant brothers built their bombs with the help of an al Qaeda online magazine, the lives of the two men had become largely Americanized.

Mr. Tsarnaev’s mother, Zubeidat Tsarnaev, had tried to make ends meet for her family by working as a home health aide after the family arrived in the U.S. in 2003. One of her clients in 2010 was Donald Larking of Newton, Mass., who was disabled after he was shot in the face nearly 40 years ago in the robbery of a convenience store where he worked.

Mr. Larking miraculously survived, but people close to the family said his faculties didn’t. He was intrigued with far-flung conspiracies, they said. He subscribed to newspapers and journals that doubted the Holocaust and described the attacks of Sept. 11, Oklahoma City and the Newtown school as plots by unseen elites, and the U.S. and Israeli governments.

Mr. Larking couldn’t be interviewed, said his lawyer, Jason Rosenberg. The shooting damaged the executive function area of Mr. Larking’s brain, he said, making it difficult for his client to make decisions and impairing “his awareness of the realities of the world."

Ms. Tsarnaev began asking Tamerlan Tsarnaev or his brother to care for Mr. Larking when she wasn’t available to work. Mr. Larking’s wife, Rosemary, a quadriplegic, also needed help at home. Mr. Tsarnaev seemed to have found a kindred spirit in Mr. Larking. They became friends and had animated talks about politics, people close to the Larking family said.

Mr. Larking also gave him his readings, they said. A Wall Street Journal reporter recently visited Mr. Tsarnaev’s apartment in Cambridge, Mass. and read a stack of newspapers, mostly borrowed from Mr. Larking, that allege nefarious conspiracies.

The papers included The First Freedom, an Alabama-based newspaper that espouses “equal rights for whites" and whose websites features a Confederate flag. Another was The Sovereign, a New York-based publication that alleges the U.S. is under the sway of Israeli lobbyists, and that Israel and the Department of Homeland Security were “deeply involved" in the Boston bombings. Neither paper returned requests for comment.

Mr. Tsarnaev got his own subscription to American Free Press, a paper that the Southern Law Poverty Center said promotes anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. A spokeswoman for the paper denied it had such an agenda, saying the paper publishes “news that the established media won’t." She confirmed that someone bought Mr. Tsarnaev a “get acquainted" 16-week subscription in December. It expired in April, at about the time of the Boston Marathon attack.

by Anonymousreply 20208/06/2013

Part 2:

Government investigators say Islamist radicalism was Mr. Tsarnaev’s motive in planting explosives near the finish line of the race. He frequented jihadi websites, authorities said, and he and his brother built their pressure-cooker bombs with the help of al Qaeda’s online magazine Inspire, which published an article titled “How to Build a Bomb in the Kitchen of Your Mom."

"They were jihadi autodidacts and no one person shaped all their thinking," said Bruce Hoffman, director of the Center for Security Studies at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. “Their readings are going to be a lot more eclectic than someone sitting with like-minded terrorists at a camp somewhere."

The Federal Bureau of Investigation declined to comment for this article.

Terror experts said extremist U.S. literature and Islamist readings may reach vastly different audiences but the themes are largely the same. Both suggest wide-ranging plots by the U.S. and Israeli governments; that time is running out before an intended apocalypse, and heroes must act before it is too late.

Mary Ellen O’Toole, a former profiler for the FBI, said she doubted that Mr. Tsarnaev’s extremist American readings would have formed his opinions but they could have reaffirmed them.

"You have to go a little deeper to understand what he was focusing on, underlining," Ms. O’Toole said. “What are they writing in the margin? What are they reading over and over again?"

Mr. Tsarnaev also had a marked-up copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a long-discredited tract penned in Russia at the beginning of the 20th century. It describes an alleged plan by Jewish leaders to take over the world. Mr. Tsarnaev scrawled 22 words he translated from English to Russian on a back page, beginning with “gentile" and ending with “Mason."

Joanna Herlihy, who rented the apartment to Mr. Tsarnaev and lived two floors below, said he recommended she read it. Ms. Herlihy said she told her tenant to read the notorious origins of the text on Wikipedia, and “now I regret that I didn’t have a follow-up conversation with him." The literary forgery is believed by historians to have been concocted by a czarist secret police officer.

Mr. Tsarnaev had an interest in a range of unseen forces. In a three-ring binder from his apartment, he printed out articles on hypnosis, and how to influence others with the power of suggestion.

Mr. Tsarnaev underlined chunks of a speed-seduction course by Ross Jeffries, “How To Create an Instantaneous Sexual Attraction in Any Woman You Meet," including monologues to create an “incredible" connection.

by Anonymousreply 20308/06/2013

Part 3:

His former brother-in-law, Elmzira Khozhugov, said Mr. Tsarnaev in 2008 was seeking out a copy of the Protocols. That year he took a sharp turn toward Islam, dropping his boxing career and telling friends and family that it was un-Islamic to punch anyone in the face, family and friends said.

Mr. Khozhugov recalled how that year Mr. Tsarnaev visited him at college in Washington state and they spent a week together. They watched the movie “Zeitgeist," which called the Sept. 11 attacks a plot of power-hungry elites against the U.S.

Mr. Tsarnaev was interested in the so-called techno-utopian Zeitgeist movement, whose adherents believe in the coming collapse of money-based society and the advantages of an economy managed by computers incapable of corruption.

"He was fascinated with it, he was beginning to think that all sorts of things were connected by a conspiracy of some kind," Mr. Khozhugov said. “If you had a conversation with him, you’d get a feeling that he was still searching, and I’d get the idea that he was going in the wrong direction."

Mr. Tsarnaev’s uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, said his nephew’s personal setbacks may have also played a role in his turn to religion and conspiracies. Mr. Tsarnaev had few prospects academically or professionally. Before the bombing, he was a stay-at-home father.

The Larkings’ lawyer, Mr. Rosenberg, said the Tsarnaev family grew close to the couple. The father, Anzor, often came to work with his wife and told the Larkings, " ‘If you ever have trouble with anybody, let me know and I’ll kill him. We Muslims don’t fool around,’ " Mr. Rosenberg said.

Reached by phone in the Russian province of Dagestan, the elder Mr. Tsarnaev denied he ever use the word “kill" but said he reassured Rosemary Larking that he would defend the couple “if anyone gave them any problems."

Anzor Tsarnaev said his son and Mr. Larking became close because the younger man was raised to respect elderly people.

"That’s the way he was taught, to take care of old people, the weak ones, for everyone," said Mr. Tsarnaev, who insisted his sons were innocent and framed by a “criminal group."

Tamerlan Tsarnaev also began taking Mr. Larking to the mosque in Cambridge, where worshipers noticed Mr. Tsarnaev gingerly escorting the older man. Mr. Larking told worshipers at the mosque that Mr. Tsarnaev was his “close friend," said Nicole Mossalam, a spokeswoman for the mosque.

Mr. Rosenberg said Mr. Larking made frequent visits to the mosque as a way to “get away from the house." He said he was able to say things to Mr. Tsarnaev without being told they were “wrong or untrue."

After the marathon bombing, Mr. Rosenberg said, Mr. Larking recognized the two brothers in photos circulated by the FBI. Mr. Larking immediately had a health aide call authorities and identify them.

Mr. Larking has since “sunken into depression and anger," Mr. Rosenberg said. Mr. Larking continues to attend the Cambridge mosque and believes Mr. Tsarnaev was the victim of a conspiracy, Mr. Rosenberg said.

Mr. Larking is “in complete denial about what happened," said Ms. Mossalam, the mosque spokeswoman.

"He is a vulnerable member of our community and we want to make sure that everyone knows he is a very sweet and innocent man," she said. “I don’t think that he ever thought that his views would ever cause anyone harm."

by Anonymousreply 20408/06/2013

Not surprised how fucked up Tamerlan was. What a psycho.

His younger brother is an idiot for going along with him though. He deserves whatever punishment he's given.

by Anonymousreply 20508/06/2013

What would have happened to Dzhokhar if he had turned in Tamerlan?

His family had Tamerlan on such a pedestal I doubt they would talk to him again. His sister, Bella, lied about Dzhokhar's friend's instagram account being hacked when he said Dzhokhar ran over Tamerlan's body by accident. Then she had a photo posted of herself holding a sign calling him a liar. His response is at the link.

He had no contact with anyone in his extended family, at least in this country.

Had only high school diploma. About $50k in debt after 2 years at UMASS.

There's no excuse for what he did. Just wondering if this shit may have been going through his head.

On a side note, he had tweeted that he didn't want an arranged marriage, but according to that girl, Brittany, he was going to Dagastan last May to get married.

by Anonymousreply 20608/06/2013

I feel sorry for Jahar, sounds like he was bullied by his older brother but, was basically a good kid. I hope he doesn't get a harsh sentence.

by Anonymousreply 20708/06/2013

When are we going to get to see a photo of what he looks like now?

by Anonymousreply 20808/07/2013

Here's an interesting interview with Donald Larking.

Talks about how he met Tamerlan, why Kathrine converted to Islam, Tamerlan supported Ron Paul in the 2012 election.

This part is very interesting:

"A voracious reader, Tsarnaev kept many of the publications Larking shared with him in his Cambridge apartment. But when federal investigators ransacked the place after the April bombing, some residents in the building noted with interest that they left behind some of Tsarnaev’s non-Muslim extremist readings.

“I think it’s interesting the FBI didn’t take them,” said Harvey Smith, a longtime tenant of the same building. “Maybe it’s because it didn’t fit into their thinking about him.”"

Like conspiracy theorists, the FBI is picking and choosing facts to follow.

by Anonymousreply 20908/08/2013

R201-204 and 206 is allowed to post bullshit from the WAR Street Journal while anyone who points out that the facts (like the surveillance of both bombers by the FBI, the reports from Russia about their radical ties, the murder by a friend by a federal agent, the "CRAFT INTERNATIONAL" thugs carrying the same backpacks...) is dismissed.

Wake up.

by Anonymousreply 21008/08/2013

no fucking way that the wife didn't know what the fuck was going on. I think she may get jail time.

by Anonymousreply 21108/09/2013

Maybe it's your tone, R210.

I posted the WSJ article because it could help create a fuller picture of Tamerlan, rather than just the self radicalized Muslim.

I don't know why you pointed out my post at R206. It was just an observation of Dzhokhar's life at that time and I wanted to know people's opinion to the question: What would have happened to Dzhokhar if he turned Tamerlan in to the FBI?

Could he have continued with his degree? Could he have made a livable wage at this point in his life?

by Anonymousreply 21208/09/2013

That's an interesting theory, R200. If Tamerlan murdered those men while he knew he was being watched by the FBI and got away with it, that would scare the shit out of anyone.

I'd like to like to know more about those murders. Was Tamerlan questioned? If not, why? He didn't leave for Russia for another 4 or 5 months after the murders. Friends of the victims seemed to think he was suspicious at the time.

by Anonymousreply 21308/09/2013

New info via crazy mom. She emails his supporters and spills all sorts of shit. Interesting that the following stuff was posted but then the family freaked and asked for it to be deleted.

Basically she said that Jahar refused a further operation on his ear to restore his hearing and that he denies speaking deliberately in a loud Russian accent at the hearing. She also claims that he said he was respectful and aware of the victims at the time. He says that the media reportage was sensationalised and full of lies. How would he know about the reportage? Why did the family freak that this was posted online? Does it impact his defence at all?

by Anonymousreply 21408/11/2013

R213, Tamerlan may have told Jahar that it was pointless going to the cops because Jahar was at the scene and the cops wouldn't believe him, if he claimed to have only been a witness.

Tamerlan also may have told Jahar that Todashev and maybe others would be watching him while he was overseas to ensure he kept his yap shut. Who knows, Tamerlan may have fed Jahar the line that others were present at the marathon and would be watching him to ensure his participation? If Jahar believed that Tamerlan was being protected by the FBI because he was an informer, then he really would have felt helpless.

Todashev may have known Tamerlan's relationship with the Feds. There are over 42 closed court dockets in the case which is extremely unusual. A number of press outlets have petitioned for these dockets to be opened so that they can investigate and report on the case. So far, they remain closed.

I hope Jahar tells the truth and doesn't try to protect his insane mother and father from the truth about his brother. He seems the type to buy into the 'noble' sacrifice line and he may feel that it is better to let his parents think that Tamerlan was a victim rather than the main instigator in this horrific attack. Hopefully Judy Clark will pull the truth out of him.

by Anonymousreply 21508/11/2013

It appears that the FBI called Tamerlan on the day of the carjacking and shoot out telling him that he was a suspect. It seems Tamerlan told them 'That's your problem' and hung up. Calling a suspect and warning him that he was a person of interest? IF that is what happened then it raises even more red flags. Did Tamerlan's handler call? It is looking as if he was turned by the feds and it blew back on them.

by Anonymousreply 21608/11/2013

I can't imagine Tamerlan worked with the FBI. He would have told his mother and she would be telling every reporter since 4/15.

This is from the article about the phone call:

“He would call me every day from America in the last days,” Zubeidat Tsarnaev said Sunday in a telephone interview with The Times from her home in the Russian republic of Dagestan, “and during our last conversation on the morning [before the shootout], he was especially touching and tender and alarmed at the same time,” she said. “He said he got a private phone call from [the FBI] and said that they told him he was under suspicion and should come see them. ‘If you need me, you will find me,’ he said, and hung up,” she said, beginning to sob. “When [Tamerlan] talked to me that last time, Dzhokhar was in his house too, and he said he would give him a lift home,” their mother said. “And then the next day my daughter Bella called me and said, ‘Mama, turn on the television.’ … Now I live with the television turned on at all times,” she said, crying again.”

Tamerlan does seems arrogant. But why would he have to drive Dzhokhar home? Dzhokhar was on campus that day, according to the indictment he drove one of his friends home at about 4 pm then apparently drove up to Cambridge.

I just don't believe the mother. She also said he call to tell her the cops are chasing and shooting at them.

I think this has so much to do with the dysfunctional family dynamic.

by Anonymousreply 21708/18/2013

Here's article about that last phone call

Before he died in a shootout with police, the eldest Boston bombing suspect called his mother.

According to , Tamerlan Tsarnaev told his mother while sobbing early Friday, “The police, they have started shooting at us, they are chasing us.”

Tsarnaev’s mother, Zubeidat Tsarnaev, told ABC News , that his last words before the phone line went dead were: “Mama, I love you.”

According to the report, he told her there had been a shooting and that his brother, Dzhokhar, was with him. His mother said he sounded frightened.

by Anonymousreply 21808/18/2013

More photos from Sgt Murphy in Boston magazine. You can really see the injury to his face and when they pull him off he boat.

by Anonymousreply 21909/01/2013

The terrorist bombing at the Boston Marathon earlier this year was outrageous and shocking. The victims will never be the same, and we can never really understand the pain and fear they will live with for the rest of their lives.

After spending trillions of dollars on "Homeland Security" surveillance and military operations overseas to eradicate terrorism, the actions of the Tsarnaev brothers exposed how vulnerable we are to guerrilla tactics. Leaving aside the warnings of Dr Ron Paul, who sees events such as this as a reflexive response to our martial actions, the subsequent paramilitary response of the police in the aftermath needs scrutiny.

According to this recent article in The Atlantic, which is hardly a bastion of libertarian or conservative thought, the actions of the police force was not only bungling but dangerous and wildly inappropriate. First of all, despite the initial protests by the BPD, the boat where Dzhokar was hiding was well within the "lockdown" zone- the police were just too incompetent to find it. Once the owner of the boat discovered that it was a possible refuge for one of the suspects, dozens of officers descended on the neighborhood. The people who lived around the area were forced, at gunpoint, to stay inside.

Here is one excerpt-

"So police get word that their suspect is curled up bleeding in the back of a boat. They surround the yard. As previously reported, a sort of shootout occurs -- that is to say, police initially talk of "exchanging gunfire" with Dzhokhar, but later it turns out he doesn't have a gun. They shoot many rounds at an unarmed person. Of course, they had good reason to be on edge, and couldn't know that the kid was unarmed, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt for firing their weapons."

Yes, these men and women- some young, some veteran- had no idea about the martial capabilities of the person that was hiding on the boat, wounded and bleeding. Anyone who has trained in combat knows that their adversary MAY have extraordinary firepower and that a cornered combatant must be treated as extremely hostile and dangerous. They are (or should be) trained to be cautious and prudent, and prepare for the worst while being cognizant of the worst. If fired on, they should be counted on and expected to return fire.

But how does that explain the fact that this unarmed man was shot at repeatedly, and the residents of the houses around him we riddled with bullets?

The reason this article, written by someone who implicitly supports and champions the "Police State" (as long as Obama is in charge) is important is that it exposes the serious doubts that are forming amongst people who believe in The State.

by Anonymousreply 22010/22/2013

I'm starting to think the whole family are gypsies.

by Anonymousreply 22110/22/2013

I wish we could see a picture of Jahar now, I wonder if he is still hot after 6 months in jail.

by Anonymousreply 22210/22/2013

He has a slight snarl and a droopy eye IIRC. There are some gorgeous photos of him on Tumblr, it pains me to say.

News is that Tamerlan has been officially names as one of the murderers in the Waltham case and Jahar's lawyers are petitioning for all the docs to be made available for 'critical mitigation purposes". Seems the idea upthread that Tamerlan used the killings to entrap junior is on the right track. Both sisters have faced court recently and Mama T is still shilling for dough via the family website.

He is kept inside his cell 23 hours a day. Visits with his lawyers take place every two days or so, speaks with crazy mama every week and has refused visits with his family ( who can blame him?). The feds have imposed limits on his mail cuz they think he will try and incite Jihad via code or something.

Sad to think he is facing life in jail or death because the cops didn't do their job by even interviewing Tamerlan in the aftermath of these murders. Makes one wonder if Tamerlan was being protected by his FBI 'handler' a la Whitey Bulger. Lots more twists to come in this horrific case before it is over.

by Anonymousreply 22310/24/2013

New Article in Boston Globe outlines pretty much what the feds will throw at the kid. Anon sources claiming he was an acid munching, gun toting, weed selling, mega bucks dealer who partied in NYC and threw the finger at the guards watching him in his cell before his appearance in court in July. Tamerlan is painted as a psycho brother who heard voices. This new anon source claims Jahar was not intimidated by big bro and the article claims he was a full co-conspirator.

This new account of Jahar is so at odds with the hundreds of positive accounts of his character that it beggars belief. Numerous family, friends, neighbours etc have stated that he obeyed Tamerlan without question, including the hostage taken that awful night.

The new anon claims that Jahar was pulling at least one grand a week dealing. However, this car crazy kid was driving a 99 Honda and was continually in debt, including owing money on his families apartment in Cambridge. The gun thing is a mystery. Only one gun was used that night and it belonged to Tamerlan. Cops believe it belonged to one of the Waltham 3. Jahar was supposed to have been stopped by cops on dozens of occasions for drugs, booze and traffic stuff but not one citation was issued because, get this, he looked white! White or not his last name would have seen him cited in this racist world. He was hardly a Kennedy.

Tumblr is also buzzing with his roomies claim that Jahar was crying in his sleep the night of the BMB and that on Thursday at noon, he received a call which left him stricken before fleeing the college.

The brothers weren't named until that night so perhaps Tamerlan did receive a call from his FBI handler telling him to come in and he called his brother to let him know they were sprung.

No wonder the feds are trying to reclaim the narrative. If Jahar has revealed his brother's links, they can just claim he is acid soaked and Tamerlan was nuts so who would believe him? Add dead Todashev to the mix and you have one hell of a case.

by Anonymousreply 22412/17/2013

This is a fascinating, complicated story. I hope some semblance of the truth comes out and the boy isn't advised to just take a plea deal.

by Anonymousreply 22512/17/2013

Death penalty is on the table! Just announced by E. Holder.

by Anonymousreply 22601/30/2014

I do t believe in the death penalty, but won't be protesting when they fry his ass.

How do the Feds implement the death penalty, anyway?

by Anonymousreply 22701/30/2014

He probably won't get the death penelty because the entire jury has to vote for it - that would be difficult since so many people are against the death penalty. Still, death penalty or not, he'll die in prison.

by Anonymousreply 22801/30/2014

Smokin' hot guy at my neighborhood bodega comes from Georgia and looks just like them. Lot of hotties in that part of the world. I'm just sayin'.

by Anonymousreply 22901/30/2014

Anyone know how Jahar is doing these days? How come there is no update on him?

by Anonymousreply 23004/20/2014

There are plenty of updates today. He's in the court facing people who may determine his fate. It's going to cost millions.

by Anonymousreply 23101/05/2015

Jury selection started today, with testimony scheduled to begin around January 26.

Haven't seen any pictures, but the link below shows the latest sketch.

by Anonymousreply 23201/05/2015

According to NPR, there are 1,400 people called in for possible jury duty for this trial. Will they be able to find 14 people who haven't already made up their mind in this case?

by Anonymousreply 23301/05/2015

No jury consists of people who haven't made up their minds.

It consists of people who have made up their minds but may be persuaded to change them.

by Anonymousreply 23401/06/2015

[quote]No jury consists of people who haven't made up their minds.

Not true. I know plenty of people who served on juries and knew nothing about the case until they sat in the jury box with eleven others who had not made up their minds -- and knew nothing about the case.

by Anonymousreply 23501/06/2015

I wonder what will happen.

He seems sort of smug, but Churchill said getting shot and surviving will do that to you.

by Anonymousreply 23601/07/2015

Too bad he didn't suffer the same fate as the gunmen in Paris.

by Anonymousreply 23701/09/2015

The trial will cost millions of dollars. Then, millions more for the appeal.

by Anonymousreply 23801/10/2015

The people of Boston aren't known for being unbiased in the best of situations.

This trial needs to be moved or they might as well not even bother wasting all the time and money to try him at all.

by Anonymousreply 23901/10/2015

It's too bad the police from Paris, France weren't in charge of the search for this bomber. That would have eliminated the need for a trial. They know how to take care of terrorists.

by Anonymousreply 24001/11/2015

This kid has the most fucked-up family on the planet.

They should be the ones frying, not him.

by Anonymousreply 24101/11/2015

Defense attorneys asked the judge to halt jury selection because the attack in Paris last week was carried out by two brothers. They claimed that could be a bad influence on prospective jurors.

The judge told them to continue the jury selection.

by Anonymousreply 24201/14/2015

An asshole who happens to be good looking, so everyone fawns over him. Adolescent rebelliousness or sign of western decay? Between this and the advocates for pedophilia, we are all set for collapse. I don't think he has an ounce of remorse in him, since he probably has metamorphosed into an Islamic extremist. He may be pretty on the outside, but the inside is the darkest pit of hell.

by Anonymousreply 24301/14/2015

WHET to the dead bomber's wife? I still think she was in on it.

by Anonymousreply 24401/14/2015

Doesn't he ever take a shower? Aren't there any give-a-shit lifers in that place? Where are all the nutcase billionaires when you need one?

by Anonymousreply 24501/14/2015

Boston cops could barely hit the side of a boat with their bullets.

by Anonymousreply 24601/14/2015

Prospective jurors in Boston Marathon bombing trial give candid answers

The first prospective juror to be questioned Thursday by the judge in the Boston Marathon bombing trial was a young advertising executive, who said his friends thought it was “really cool” that he might serve on a panel that could decide whether Dzhokhar Tsarnaev lives or dies.

“They very much want to sentence him to death,” the man said, adding that he strongly agreed. “I can’t imagine any evidence that would change what I think happened.”

Next was a middle-aged insurance manager whose wife, an ICU nurse, treated some of the 260 people injured in the twin blasts that killed three people in April 2013. “It’s tough,” he said. “It hit my wife hard. Particularly dealing with the patients.” But to put Tsarnaev to death, he said, “it has to be 100% guilt — rock solid.”

Thursday marked the first day of individual questioning of jury candidates in the federal capital trial for the 21-year-old Tsarnaev, accused by U.S. officials of planting a pressure-cooker bomb near the end of the marathon route.

Meeting on the third floor of the downtown federal courthouse, U.S. District Judge George A. O’Toole Jr., prosecutors and defense lawyers began the difficult work of finding a fair and impartial jury in the worst terrorist attack in the U.S. since Sept. 11.


by Anonymousreply 24701/15/2015


by Anonymousreply 24802/15/2015

I think the whole family was used and twisted by the CIA. The CIA has the job of constantly making us afraid of the evil boogeyman (terrorist). Every now and then they get away with some bomb situation, get our government to take more of our freedoms away from us and the people sit cowering, terrified of "terrorist". Our government has all the power, they are always the ones manipulating us.

by Anonymousreply 24902/15/2015

Anyone keeping up with the trial? Reading Tsarnaev appeared "unmoved" with all the victim testimony.

by Anonymousreply 25003/06/2015

So much victim testimony this early on is indicative of the puerile federal prosecutor in charge of this case.She's a Latina mommy and so we have to slog through tears just to get to the facts.

The feds have to justify their desire for the death penalty, while the defense is going to paint the kid as a pawn of his older brother, so it is going to be a very damp trial.

by Anonymousreply 25103/07/2015
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