Question for Dataloungers from states which made up The Confederacy.
In "Gone With The Wind" Mitchell writes about Union soldiers stationed in Georgia during Reconstruction. Some stayed there, became Democrats and more "southern then southerners."
Does there still exist a social distinction between Southerners who can trace their lineage back to before the US Civil War, and southerners who arrived from the north either during or after?
|by Anonymous||reply 43||05/06/2013|
The democrats back then were the KKK and the repubs wanted to end slavery then somehow they did an about face.
|by Anonymous||reply 1||05/05/2013|
No, the people who are really into the Confederacy/Civil War stuff all assume that they (their families) were always Confederates. You are talking about people who are very very dumb, OP. They don't know anything about the war or history that they are so emotionally invested in, let alone details like yours. These people are the southern American equivalent of the Tsarnaev brothers: co-opting a cause/fight from their ancestors that they know exactly nothing about and have never experienced.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||05/05/2013|
Seriously, R1? "Somehow they did an about face"?
Northern Democrats led by LBJ passed major civil rights legislation in the 1960s. The Republican Party adopted "The Southern Strategy" after the disastrous defeat in 1964 and courted the angry white Strom Thurmond/George Wallace voters as a new base. Now they are under the control of the people they sought to exploit.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||05/05/2013|
It sounds like someone hasn't see the "Daughters of the Old Confederacy" episode of The Golden Girls.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||05/05/2013|
Ya dipshit R3 the democrats changed from being the KKK party (antebellum southerners) to civil rights champions . After the war all the old southern families were democrats.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||05/05/2013|
None of that is inconsistent with what I wrote, R3. I was describing why and how it happened. You make it seem like magic.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||05/05/2013|
Obviously, the DL signal down't reach the real South, or else they aren't tuned in.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||05/05/2013|
My mother's maternal side came from Alabama. They were all democrats.
Because the republicans (Lincoln) burned their house to the ground. Before the war, they were quite prosperous. They never recovered. My grandmother ended up in Texas. Married into an old Texas family, with a lot of land.
Struck oil and gas in the '20's., and my grandmother was back in the black.
She was always a democrat, because the union was run by the GOP.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||05/05/2013|
[quote]After the war all the old southern families were democrats.
Until the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Then they fled to the Republican Party because white Southerners don't like equal rights for blacks.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||05/05/2013|
R7 should be addressed to R6
|by Anonymous||reply 11||05/05/2013|
What I love is the white trash who are always so proud that someone in their family fought for the confederates. I always love to remind them that white trash were treated no better than slaves and in many cases slaves were treated better - except for that whole being slaves thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||05/05/2013|
Membership in United Daughters of the Confederacy is open to women who are descended from veterans who served in the military of the Confederate States of America.
Ditto for men and membership in Sons of Confederate Veterans.
Sorry to bash your hopes, OP, but you can never be a true Southerner if you aren't eligible to join one of these organizations. You can come very close, but you can never truly be the real thing without it.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||05/05/2013|
The truth of this matter is, overwhelmingly more southerners have no idea who their father is let alone if their family members arrived before the welfare check last month. The "old money" too mint juliep'd to know where they are let alone from whence they came.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||05/05/2013|
[quote] In "Gone With The Wind"
|by Anonymous||reply 15||05/05/2013|
Not to worry, r13. I certainly don't. I'm a northerner from before the US Revolution.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||05/05/2013|
A badge of honor among white southerners is how wealthy their families were before the "war of northern aggression" and how many people they owned.
Carpetbaggers, even if they became "more southern then southerners," can never rightfully claim to have participated in the activities or social norms of this class. This hybrid northern-southerner will always be a different breed than a true southerner.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||05/05/2013|
I'm half Southern and half Colombian so my perspective might be a bit different. But, I never heard my Southern half of my family tree ever speak of the Civil War or any of that Confederate shit once. Just never. And, they were all from the deep ass countryside of Arkansas.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||05/05/2013|
So, R17, "Southern" status depends on how many slaves your ancestors owned? Charming.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||05/05/2013|
R18, I'm from Hope and share that experience. Nobody in Arkansas really mentions or thinks about the Civil War or who anyone's ancestors were. I assume Arkansas just wasn't populated enough for the plantation economy to have had roots as deep as in places like Georgia or Alabama.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||05/05/2013|
Granted wealth and lineage mean a lot here, but manners and customs are what set us apart from the trash that is the rest of America.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||05/05/2013|
R22. Awe sugar, you've have a hard life.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||05/05/2013|
Just the opposite R21. Many of the richest families in the South today descended from people who traded or smuggled with the Yankees or hoarded goods against a Confederate defeat (examples abound including the Inman family of Atlanta). So they say you have to be able to demonstrated Confederate pedigree, but in fact they bow and scrape before these people, just as they bow and scrape before the rich generally.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||05/05/2013|
An example of a white trash family that were antebellum aristos was Paula Deen's.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||05/05/2013|
R24. We know them, and do not associate with them. Since you are not from here, you cannot imagine the hierarchy.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||05/05/2013|
I don't think it matters. After a generation, or at most, two, most people are assimilated into the culture, especially if you're a WASP.
Catholics, Jews, southern and eastern Europeans, anybody considered "ethnic" (i.e., anybody not "Scotch-Irish" or English) have never really fit in the Deep South culture, and still don't. Even many generations later.
But if your grandparents moved down from Indiana - who cares? As long as their WASPs.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||05/05/2013|
R25. They were not. They were savannah/coastal Georgia trash
|by Anonymous||reply 28||05/05/2013|
You did not say you were above them in the hierarchy, did you?
150 years is a long time....
|by Anonymous||reply 29||05/05/2013|
R27. You are so wrong. We have a large Jewish population in our proper OLD cities. The issue is not your race, religion, age, etc as long as your blood is blue.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||05/05/2013|
This thread is a sad reminder that contrary to what is commonly claimed, northerners are still fighting the civil war far more than southerners.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||05/05/2013|
Ridiculous R31. It is southerners who insist on a Confederate pedigree, not us.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||05/05/2013|
The most conservative people in the South today are northern transplants to the South. People like Newt Gingrich, who is from Pennsylvania.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||05/05/2013|
During the Civil War period, almost half of all Southerners were pro-Union. A convention was held in northern Alabama to consider seceding from the South. Many people in the mountainous areas of the South had no plantations and no slaves, and did not support secession from the US. My own family, in North Carolina, was split down the middle with half supporting the South and half supporting the North.
For decades the Republicans were the favored party of blacks but Franklin Roosevelt ended that.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||05/05/2013|
[quote]Does there still exist a social distinction between Southerners who can trace their lineage back to before the US Civil War, and southerners who arrived from the north either during or after?
If you're talking about general "white folks," like those with earlier lineages from the UK & Ireland, Channel Islands, France, Germany, etc., most would have relatives on both Union and Confederate sides, who even lived at the same time.
It seems any Southern allegiance to Confederacy is more of a popularized cultural legacy, not a generational one.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||05/05/2013|
Do any of you ever travel or have friends that live in the South? That old Moonlight & Magnolia crap is long gone in most cities or exists in a parallel society that most people don't care about. The cities that cling to that are more deep South like Charleston, Montgomery, Jackson, Baton Rouge, etc. In cities like Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville, etc., not so much. How many of you New Yorkers are on the Board of the Metropolitan Museum, or are related to the original 400? Any Boston Brahmins? That's how relevant the Confederacy lineage is in most southern cities today.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||05/05/2013|
I can trace my paternal and maternal Southern ancestors back to pre-Civil war; however, they were slaves. I look white because of white owners liking a little dark meat and both sides were mixed. Back in the 60's and 70's, whites talked a LOT about what "stock" or "good family" you came from. I got asked at social events "Who are your people?" Hope it's different now. Moved to CA in '95 from Northwestern FL, which is VERY Southern,
|by Anonymous||reply 37||05/05/2013|
I wish they'd go back to secession.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||05/05/2013|
I'm from Arkansas, too, and while it's just as Republican and ignorant as the rest of the south, people don't talk about the Civil War or the Confederacy with misplaced pride. I always find it embarrassing whenever I visit friends in Jackson and Charleston and hear their parents or older friends talking about the "war of northern aggression" and romanticizing the Confederacy like it was something to be proud of. I always think of Nazis in So. America remembering the good old days.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||05/05/2013|
You are assuming the black were all pro-Yankee and nobody knows to what extent that is true R34.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||05/06/2013|
I'm from Texas. Most of my extended family lives in southern Louisiana or east Texas. I have never heard any romantic talk about the confederacy or lineage from any of them. And my mother's side of the family comes from old money and probably did own slaves.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||05/06/2013|
I'm from Arkansas, and Confederate shit is ALL I heard about from my family.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||05/06/2013|
I had people on both sides during the war. All of them were Southerners, but some chose to fight for the Union.
But by the time I grew up, there was no distinction made between Southerners whose families had always been here and those of "carpetbaggers." Everyone was from the South.
Also, a lot of the younger Southerners under 30 don't give a rat's ass about all that, which can be a good thing, but not always. I think it's important for these kids to understand the South so they can overcome it. Even though they don't give a rat's ass about the history, they are still affected by it economically, socially, and educationally. And I think it's important these kids understand that so they can work harder to integrate the South back into mainstream America.
I hate being a Southerner, but had to stay here for family reasons. But others don't feel that way. And, there IS a fairly strong political secessionist movement in the South, even today. And, a look at the red "solid south" on a political map and all the gun nuttery pretty much says it all. It scares the hell out me, I don't mind telling you.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||05/06/2013|