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Unemployment Drops To 7.5%, Lowest Since December 2008

So do Republicans in Congress get to take the credit?

by Anonymousreply 10112/11/2014

Bump.

by Anonymousreply 105/04/2013

I finally found a job, but I didn't add to the drop in statistics because my unemployment had already run out four months ago.

by Anonymousreply 205/04/2013

The Republicans get to take credit for stalling the economy, for crippling government, for making the straw man arguments about the debt ceiling, the national debt and the budget deficit. Fuck them and the billions they rode in on.

They have done everything to hobble this president and STILL Obama prevails. They are going to shit themselves with another President Clinton.

by Anonymousreply 305/04/2013

That's not accurate...

Many people have given up looking for work or their UI ran out. This is just an excuse for Congress to continue to not do anything about the job crisis.

by Anonymousreply 405/04/2013

No, actual employment is up overall, although especially in lower-paid jobs. But most economists agree that the Republican sequestration is a big drag on the economy right now. I.e., without it we could be doing substantially better.

by Anonymousreply 505/04/2013

Isn't the argument that the unemployment figures are cyclical and that the economy has recovered at a much slower rate than it could have? Also, how accurate is this figure when so many have dropped out of the workforce or have delayed entering it.

by Anonymousreply 705/04/2013

Where it not for the Repugs it would be 6.5%.

by Anonymousreply 905/04/2013

The Repugs control the House. They have had control over all of this, thus they get the award bringing down unemployment, and they will tout it sadly. They'll also say that they stopped Obama's deadly economic policy which led to the bad economy during his first term. I'd love to know though how this all actually happened in the first place. The stock market is soaring.

by Anonymousreply 1005/04/2013

Why isn't my company hiring more people despite exceeding their annual profit expectations? They put it out there in the annual report bragging about the amount of cash they have. How dare they??!! My department is swamped with work.

by Anonymousreply 1105/04/2013

Corporations are money hoarders...especially now. They know they have the upper hand in this job market and that people will work for less if they're desperate enough. This is how they will get domestic workers to work for outsourcing wages.

Corporations have no soul.

by Anonymousreply 1205/04/2013

Remember, there were a lot of rethug asshat employers who swore they would not hire another person until there was a rethug in the white house. They hoped to scare people into voting for Mittens. I think many of them realize that they can't wait another four years and still not be sure of a rethug prez.

by Anonymousreply 1305/04/2013

I'm in the same position that r11 is in It sucks but at least I have a job. The top 4-6 ppl in the company are getting really really rich

by Anonymousreply 1405/04/2013

The Republicans deserve no credit. They fought against every thing good that Obama or the Fed has done.

by Anonymousreply 1505/04/2013

r10, the Republicans control the House and because there are more than 40 of them, they control the Senate as well.

by Anonymousreply 1605/04/2013

Has that turd Jack Welch commented on the new numbers?

Does he still think Obama is cooking the numbers to get re-elected? Or has he come up with a new conspiracy theory?

by Anonymousreply 1705/04/2013

Don't believe the hype, OP. Unemployment rate is a nearly meaningless statistic.

From yesterday's NY Times:

[quote] The share of working age American adults with jobs was 58.6 percent in April. In other words, the United States economy is not getting any closer to recreating the roughly 10 million jobs lost during the recession. The share of adults with jobs did not change. What grew instead is the share of adults no longer counted as part of the labor force. The federal government counts 11.7 million Americans as unemployed. The real number is more like 17 million.

by Anonymousreply 1805/04/2013

r18-

Take your logic elsewhere. We don't care about facts!!!

by Anonymousreply 1905/04/2013

The economy added 165,000 jobs last month & previous months were revised upward. That's good news.

by Anonymousreply 2005/04/2013

They will give credit to the sequester, which they brought about.

by Anonymousreply 2105/04/2013

Per Nate Silver, that's barely the break even number needed to match population growth, R20. Good in the sense that it's not zero? Sure. Good in the sense that the job picture is improving? No.

Nate Silver in NY Times:

[quote] To create jobs at a rate that exceeds the rate of population growth, I’ll spare you the math (although it is straightforward), but this works out to a break-even number of 166,000 jobs per month. To clarify, this reflects the growth rate in the adult population and not what the government defines as the labor force. I am not a fan of using calculations like the unemployment rate that rely on the definition of the labor force because entry and exit into the labor force can be counter-cyclical: more people exit the labor force when they perceive the economy to be weak, which “helps” the unemployment rate, and vice versa. However, the growth in the adult population is relatively exogenous from economic performance and is probably worth considering.

by Anonymousreply 2205/04/2013

Nate is a brilliant statistician and halfway decent political analyst. But he's no economist.

That benchmark figure is high.

The ones I see are on the order of 100-150 K.

The economy gained 176,000 last month, and has gained well over 600,000 in the last three months. That's more than enough to keep up with population growth.

by Anonymousreply 2305/04/2013

I have two jobs that equal over 40 hours a week, no benefits and gross about $19,000 a year.

According to the government, I'm a fucking success story! Have no idea what I'm going to do to pay for health insurance when that requirement kicks in. Oh, I know, I'll get those lovely subsidies to pay for my $10,000 deductible catastrophic plan. Excellent. Now, where do I get the $10,000 when I drop from exhaustion or go insane and they have to cart me away?

Kill the rich!

by Anonymousreply 2405/05/2013

Since the media and we on the DL have rightly blamed President Obama for the high unemployment during his first term, it is only right that he gets the well-deserved credit for ending it.

The Repugs have had no effect either way. They aren't here.

by Anonymousreply 2505/05/2013

I have roughly $700,000 in bonds, stocks and cash at 57. Am I in a good place or not? Should I have more? I own the house and have no debts.

by Anonymousreply 2605/05/2013

r26

Do you have a 401k? Even without one, I would say that you are in a very good situation.

by Anonymousreply 2705/05/2013

R26,

You are doing well. You are one of the few without a mortgage or debts and have substantial savings.

If you can live on 3 to 4% of your savings per year, you should be OK. If you can hold off getting Social Security until you are 70, you will be in a even better place.

At your age, you should have about 60% of your savings in bonds. A rough estimate for bond/savings holding is equal to one's age. As one gets older, one cannot weather stock's volatility.

by Anonymousreply 2805/05/2013

I wouldn't put that much money in bonds. Bond yields are very low and prices have more downside potential than upside potential.

I'd split between stocks that pay dividends and money market funds. MM funds won't give much, if any, interest, but they are a secure place to park your investment.

by Anonymousreply 2905/05/2013

OP got his stats from the white house press agent right?

by Anonymousreply 3005/05/2013

The ACA is not going to make things worse.

by Anonymousreply 3205/05/2013

that's cuz

1. a lot of people stopped looking for jobs

2. they are now on SSI

3. they are homeless

by Anonymousreply 3305/05/2013

The economy is and has been adding jobs.

by Anonymousreply 3705/08/2013

When Republicans bitch about the recovery being "slower than it should be!" or "slower than it's every been!" they are, of course, being completely fuckwitted and deliberately misleading.

The current recovery cannot be measured against any economic downturn in the US economy other than the Great Depression. We escaped a second Great Depression by the skin of our teeth.

Compared with our recovery from the Great Depression, we're doing just fine, thanks. It's lucky we've had President Obama and not some shitstain Republican austerity idiot. Austerity measures are the surest way to stop any recovery and make everything worse.

by Anonymousreply 3805/08/2013

Hey Republicans, how's that BENGAAAZIIIIIIE thing going for ya now that the economy is in solid recovery?

by Anonymousreply 4105/26/2013

[quote]Could the current Greater Depression be the result of the Federal Reserve printing shit-tons of cash that went to the DotCom bubble, and when that crashed they doubled down and printed even MORE money that ended up making houses expensive, and when THAT crashed they just printed it to go the stock market?

No, but thanks for playing. We have some lovely consolation prizes for you.

[quote]The money the Federal Reserve creates out of thin air (well, actually they by USTreasury bonds that you and your children and grandkids will be paying for.

And again, no. None of what the Fed is doing is new or unusual.

[quote]The scary part- once the FED decides to end that $85B/mo junkie fix the market will collapse.

Nope, because the private sector will have picked up the slack by then. Again, none of this is new. Your predictions have never come true in the past; there is no reason to believe they will come true this time.

[quote]That is one of the central insights of Austrian economists like Mises and Rothbard.

Too bad it is an "insight" that has no connection to the real world.

[quote]Until bad debt is destroyed, and interest rates normalize in a free market, the "BOOM/BUST" cycle will repeat until the whole system is destroyed.

You don't know much about history, do you? Free clue: check out the "BOOM/BUST" cycles of the late 1800s, prior to the creation of the Federal Reserve.

by Anonymousreply 4205/26/2013

At any particular rate of interest, the borrowers are those whose time preference is the opposite of lenders -- the higher a rate of interest I'm willing to pay on a loan, the more I prefer current consumption to future consumption. If I will pay 10%, then I prefer $100 for consumption today to $110 available for consumption a year from now. The net result of all lenders and borrowers expressing their time preference by offering and bidding on loans is the natural rate of interest.

This natural rate of interest tells entrepreneurs whether a particular investment is worth making or not. In an unhampered market, the natural rate of interest would be equivalent to what is termed, in finance, the risk-free rate of interest. Since entrepreneurs can earn this return on their money simply by lending it out, they will only undertake capital projects if they estimate that their return will be higher than the natural rate of interest. In terms of our analogy, it makes no sense to plan our trip with Phoenix as the destination if the consumers are only willing to turn off the AC (put off current consumption) enough to reach Albuquerque. For any project that returns less than the natural rate of interest, the consumers are indicating that they would, in fact, prefer that these resources be used for current consumption rather than being invested in this project.

Now, let us see how the activities of the central bank affect this relationship. We will use the Federal Reserve, the most powerful central bank in the world, and the recent Internet boom to illustrate what occurs.

As Dr. Frank Shostak points out, the Fed began a three-year long expansion in 1996: "After falling to a yearly growth of 1.6% in May 1996 the yearly rate of growth in the money base climbed to 15.2% by December last year." Meanwhile, the interest on the 30-year Treasury bond dropped from a high of over 7% to a low of 5%. The stock markets soared, especially the stocks of Internet startups. The "tech heavy" NASDAQ composite went from just over 1000 to 5132 during this period, rising over 80% in 1999 alone.

Buoyed by the stellar stock market returns, consumers built massive additions to their houses, and took trips they otherwise would not have taken. Real estate, especially in the "dot-com areas" such as Silicon Valley and New York City, soared in price.

by Anonymousreply 4505/28/2013

However, the Fed knows that such a boom cannot be sustained indefinitely without leading to ever-increasing rates of inflation. Last year, the Fed began raising interest rates to check the progress of the boom. As the Fed's actions began to take effect, the malinvestments of the boom period began to be revealed. Internet startups shut down for lack of funds. The stocks of other high tech companies crashed -- Amazon.com from a high of 113 to a current 30, Qualcomm from a high of 200 to 62, Red Hat from a high of 151 to a low of 18. Peter Eavis of TheStreet.com reports: "In the past month, Chicago’s Bank One and Charlotte’s First Union, among the nation’s largest banks, have reported billions of dollars in losses as they repair missteps, all committed in this boom." Meanwhile, all around my town I see large construction projects abandoned after being only 10 or 20% completed.

James Cramer, writing in the June 26th New York Magazine, hit the nail on the head with his diagnosis of the downturn:

The Federal Reserve, in its desire to stomp inflation, has raised rates to the point where business is faltering throughout the country… That means that many companies that had been thinking we were in for boom times have simply gotten it wrong.

It is important to note that the Austrian theory does not imply, as some have interpreted it, that we are witnessing the results of "overinvestment." Austrians do not contend that the Fed really has put more gas in our car! Since the Fed produces no capital goods, this obviously could not be the case. Rather, we suffer from malinvestment, as we have spent time and resources on projects that we cannot actually complete, and which we would not have undertaken if we had had an accurate reading on our gauge. As Mises put it, " A further expansion of production is possible only if the amount of capital goods is increased by additional saving, i.e., by surpluses produced and not consumed. The characteristic mark of the credit-expansion boom is that such additional capital goods have not been made available." (Human Action, XX.6)

by Anonymousreply 4605/28/2013

Differentiating overinvestment from malinvestment is only possible because of the key Austrian insight that capital has structure, and it is this structure, much more than the neoclassical concept of the "amount" of capital, that is important to the economy's smooth functioning. The Austrian concept of complex orders of capital goods interlocked in complementary structures stands in stark contrast to, for instance, the neoclassical Cobb-Douglas function, where a single variable, Kt, stands for the "capital stock at the beginning of the year." (This definition is from Miller and Upton's Macroeconomics: A Neoclassical Introduction.) If you have any doubt about which model better reflects economic reality, consider whether you would prefer to live in an economy like America's, with a rich variety of complementary capital goods, or another economy with the same "amount" of capital goods in its "Kt variable," but with the capital consisting entirely of machines for kneading pizza dough.

The distinction between the amount of capital and the structure of capital explains why (besides simple lying) the Soviet Union was able to report impressive macroeconomic statistics for capital goods production while still being an economic disaster. The Soviet planners were able to direct the economy to produce large amounts of capital goods without being able, in the absence of any basis for economic calculation, to achieve a sensible capital structure.

Another analogy for the process by which the Fed "manages" the economy would be that of a hyper-active pediatrician, who never feels that the children under his care are growing at the "right" rate.

The body grows by a process we do not consciously control, based, in ways we only partly comprehend, on genetic makeup, nutrition, rest, exercise, and so on. Each cell responds to its own local conditions, and the net result of all of these responses is the body's overall rate of growth. Similarly, each individual in the economy makes local decisions based on his unique circumstances, the net of which is the overall state of the economy. By using this analogy I do not mean to contend that the economy is "really" some sort of organism, only that the process of economic growth is in some ways similar to that of organic growth.

by Anonymousreply 4705/28/2013

The Fed, the pediatrician of our analogy, feels it can improve on this natural state. It doesn't alter any of the real inputs to this process, such as capital currently available or the willingness to save. Instead, it fidgets with the economy's "hormonal levels" by adjusting the interest rate. When it makes credit easy, the economy's apparent growth speeds up. In fact, what has occurred is that certain visible manifestations of growth have accelerated, while other, equally necessary but less visible growth processes have suffered as a result. Without the necessary "nutrients" being present, this sort of "growth" is built on a foundation of sand. The "bones" weaken and cannot support the body. The central bank, fearing a collapse, then tries to reduce the rate of growth through tightening credit. This in no way undoes the damage done during the period of credit expansion, but, rather, adds a new set of distortions to those already present. Of course, once the central bank has engaged in credit expansion, it is foolish to blame it for reining in the boom. The only alternative is eventual economic collapse in what Mises called "the crack-up boom," or hyperinflation and the breakdown of the exchange economy.

Hopefully, this piece has given those unfamiliar with the Austrian theory an understanding of how it explains the trade cycle. With these basics at hand, in the next piece in this series we will proceed to examine the challenge to Austrian theory presented by the "rational expectations" school of economics.

---------------

Now, anyone who reads these posts can understand why giving the .gov power to print money to bail out the banks and wage wars without end will result in misery, whereas reducing the powers of .gov to spend YOUR money will make things better.

by Anonymousreply 4805/28/2013

Tl;dr, Lew Rockwell nut.

by Anonymousreply 4905/28/2013

R50, I didn't mean to "yell", I just cannot stand it when people say economics is "Zero Sum".

If there were only 100 people on the planet, in a small area, then the fact that each person SPECIALIZED in one area- woodwork, leatherwork, gardening, fishing, etc.- it would make the whole society much better off than each person trying to live alone.

That is why Austrian economics is superior to Keynesianism- Keynes puts us all in boxes and plans our lives and talents and output, and just looks at "aggregates". If you pay half your society to do nothing or dig useless ditches or fill out paperwork...well, your society is going to fail.

Again, I apologize for my comment at R51- it was a reaction to the Zero Sum Game issue.

by Anonymousreply 5205/28/2013

In a market-based labor contract, there is no exploitation. People come to agreement based on their own perceptions of mutual benefit. A person who believes it is better to work for $1 an hour rather than sit at home doing nothing is free to make that contract. In fact, a person who works for a negative wage - who pays for an internship, for example - is free to make that deal too.

by Anonymousreply 5305/28/2013

Can't we PLEASE go back to talking about clothes and Janet Jackson???

by Anonymousreply 5405/28/2013

The Libertarian Idiot Troll(TM) clearly gets paid by the word.

by Anonymousreply 5505/28/2013

Obama is r25's hero.

by Anonymousreply 5605/28/2013

Things just keep getting worse for the American worker, and by implication US economy, where as we have shown many times before, it pays just as well to sit back and collect disability and various welfare and entitlement checks, than to work .The best manifestation of this: the number of people not in the labor force which in March soared by a massive 663,000 to a record 90 million Americans who are no longer even looking for work. This was the biggest monthly increase in people dropping out of the labor force since January 2012, when the BLS did its census recast of the labor numbers. And even worse, the labor force participation rate plunged from an already abysmal 63.5% to 63.3% - the lowest since 1979! But at least it helped with the now painfully grotesque propaganda that the US unemployment rate is "improving."

by Anonymousreply 5705/30/2013

And now that the economy is under control and Obama care is adding to the great deficit reduction we have Republitards blathering about the TRUE numbers?

It was Reagan who cooked the unemployment books to make his government expansion look good. Get used to it.

by Anonymousreply 5805/31/2013

There is no way I am reading all of those posts r43.

by Anonymousreply 5905/31/2013

really? I am job hunting and it seems harder than ever :-(

by Anonymousreply 6105/31/2013

R61-

It's going to get worse. Companies are moving any work that they can outsourced overseas. The tax and regulatory burden (IRS, OSHA, DHS, ACA, FICEN) are making employment of US workers unprofitable.

Good luck.

by Anonymousreply 6205/31/2013

[quote]After reading R42s nonsense, maybe this parable will make more sense-

No, dear, it doesn't, but thank you for playing. We have some lovely consolation prizes for you.

I do love the article, though, particularly with its ignorance of economics and history. The economic data from the 1800s seem to have completely escaped the author.

[quote]That is why Austrian economics is superior to Keynesianism

In your dreams, dear. The events of the past several years have made it quite clear that Keynes has won, hands down.

[quote]Keynes puts us all in boxes and plans our lives and talents and output, and just looks at "aggregates".

No, dear, he doesn't. You really shouldn't post on a topic you clearly know nothing about. Displaying your ignorance like this is simply embarrassing.

by Anonymousreply 6305/31/2013

[quote]Things just keep getting worse for the American worker, and by implication US economy

Of course, out here in the real world, the economy is recovering, albeit slowly. You should join us here someday.

by Anonymousreply 6405/31/2013

Another "GOOD" jobs number, another round of bullshit.

80% of the "new jobs" were in hospitality and service industries, and 90% of those jobs pay less than $10/hr.

by Anonymousreply 6512/09/2014

R62 has been proven wrong.

It is a whole lot better.

by Anonymousreply 6612/09/2014

OP-

You posted this 18 months ago, and the US economy is in WORSE shape today.

Do you worship government so much you can't see reality?

by Anonymousreply 6712/09/2014

Actually, in 18 months, average unemployment rate is down. Average rate of pay is up. Stocks are near record highs, again. The deficit is dropping again and again. Gas is averaging below $3 per gallon nationwide. It's below $1 some places. Inflation continus to be below the Fed's target of 2% yearly. Housing is recovering. Real estate in my city is booming. They give out free puppies at Starbucks. What could R67 possibly be reading that misses all of this?

by Anonymousreply 6812/10/2014

Yes, R68-

the government and media NEVER lie.

Moron.

by Anonymousreply 6912/10/2014

R69, the more you write, the crazier you seem.

by Anonymousreply 7012/10/2014

R70

You're the one who believes government number bullshit!

Do you REALLY think the economy is getting better? Are you that credulous, or just that stupid?

by Anonymousreply 7112/10/2014

It's not just the government that gives out employment statistics. Do you know what ADR is, R70?

by Anonymousreply 7212/10/2014

Yes, R72- that's why I KNOW these numbers are bullshit, just as they were under Bush.

Why do you think Obama and Bush are different?

by Anonymousreply 7312/10/2014

R73 - I meant ADP.

It's a private company that puts out payroll job survey data. It also shows an uptick.

by Anonymousreply 7412/10/2014

test

by Anonymousreply 7512/10/2014

Atta girl, R72. Give 'er Hell!

by Anonymousreply 7612/10/2014

The current unemployment rate is 5.9%, fulfilling yet ANOTHER of President Obama's promises to America when he ran for president, which was to have the unemployment rate BELOW 6% by the time he left office.

Look at this very, very impressive graph.

by Anonymousreply 7712/10/2014

R77-

You are the definition of "useful idiot".

Look at those numbers. Look below the surface- most are minwage jobs, not GOOD jobs.

Obama is just Bush V3.0

by Anonymousreply 7812/10/2014

R78, can you prove that claim? My son was just hired as Petroleum Engineer straight out of college with a starting salary of $88,000.

by Anonymousreply 7912/10/2014

Fake, made up numbers.

by Anonymousreply 8012/10/2014

Really, R80? Perhaps then you should look at the following table of "Careers That Pay-Off" before you are so quick to hit the typewriter.

It looks like my son didn't even get the average beginning salary of $100,000. But he was never the smartest tool in the shed and it DID take him 5 years to graduate.

You have no one to blame but yourself for not having a marketable education. You had the same chance my son had. The very, very same chance.

But at least you can console yourself by looking at the beauty of degree in art history hanging on your mother's basement wall.

by Anonymousreply 8112/10/2014

R81, I pity you, you believe a fucking chart. Typical brainless flyover cunt.

by Anonymousreply 8212/10/2014

R4 is correct. What's the actual rate of unemployment? Is it still around 17-18% the last such rate I remember reading? Isn't it like 75% among young black men?

Don't ask me; tell me. I stopped following unemployment stats about 4-5 years ago when it was apparent the government was cooking the numbers.

by Anonymousreply 8312/10/2014

R83 honey, don't BOTHER with educating yourself with those "numbers"! You probably didn't like "numbers" beginning in the 3rd grade. You just come here and sit a spell in the lounge and continue telling us how stupid you are.

by Anonymousreply 8412/10/2014

No, R83. Not even close on any of those numbers.

And Republicans don't get one bit of credit. Things are getting better IN SPITE of them, not because of them.

We'd be a LOT better off in virtually every way if they'd stop their petulant, childish, racist obstructionism of anything and everything Obama or Democrats try to get done. Back in the old days, parties cooperated and compromised to get things done.

by Anonymousreply 8512/10/2014

Americans will always side with Mommy and Daddy Republican when it comes to money.

by Anonymousreply 8612/10/2014

Bravo, R85!

by Anonymousreply 8712/10/2014

Obama could drop an atom bomb on Detroit, and there'd be some Jew making an excuse for him.

by Anonymousreply 8812/10/2014

How do you tell if a person is Jewish? We don't have any here and I've never personally met one.

by Anonymousreply 8912/10/2014

R83 is wrong.

by Anonymousreply 9012/10/2014

r83 is right

by Anonymousreply 9112/10/2014

Government data show that since 2000 all of the net gain in the number of working-age (16 to 65) people holding a job has gone to immigrants (legal and illegal). This is remarkable given that native-born Americans accounted for two-thirds of the growth in the total working-age population. Though there has been some recovery from the Great Recession, there were still fewer working-age natives holding a job in the first quarter of 2014 than in 2000, while the number of immigrants with a job was 5.7 million above the 2000 level.

by Anonymousreply 9212/10/2014

Facts---The GOP has figured out how to stop even them...

"we added 400,000 new jobs"

"they are part time"

"no they are not"

"They are low paying"

"You control the minimum wage..."

"you guys are lying doodie faces.."

uhh okay.

by Anonymousreply 9312/10/2014

R93 - you forgot "government lies" and Gruber.

by Anonymousreply 9412/10/2014

BENGHAZI!!!

by Anonymousreply 9512/10/2014

Thanks for the data, R81! Thinks keep improving!

by Anonymousreply 9612/10/2014

Unemployment is down to 5.8% with the largest growth in jobs in a decade over the last quarter.

by Anonymousreply 9712/10/2014

And look! All the illegals who are getting those jobs can now drive their cars to work!

by Anonymousreply 9812/11/2014

r67 = Ted Cruz.

Now you can translate his other rantings.

by Anonymousreply 9912/11/2014

Most of the jobs are shit poor pay no benefit jobs.

by Anonymousreply 10012/11/2014

R100 typical con response. The sky is falling and every indicator that the GOP used to show the GWB Presidency was supposedly successful somehow means something completely different now that Obama is President.

The truth is the "great" jobs under GWB were caused by an economic bubble. I knew people without graduate degrees and with rather poor college performance getting jobs with 6 figures when Bush was President. They didn't deserve those jobs and when the jobs went away and don't seem to be coming back, people blame Obama.

They are NOT coming back..unless you want another economic meltdown to ensue.

by Anonymousreply 10112/11/2014
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