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CAROUSEL is on TCM

It has the most beautiful of all the Rodgers and Hammerstein songs.

And its message is so timeless: if you really love someone, he can hit you hard and you won't feel it at all.

Also: if you fuck Richard Rodgers, it doesn't really matter if you can't do a Maine accent: you'll still get the lead.

by Rihannareply 13007/09/2014

I loved the sunset on the Atlantic at the end...

by Rihannareply 104/18/2013

I don't like ghosts coming back and interfering with the living.

by Rihannareply 204/18/2013

That goddamn fucking whore!!!

by Rihannareply 304/18/2013

And to think that just a few years later I'd be stuck on some teen sitcom and fucking Marty Ingels.

by Rihannareply 404/18/2013

That last scene & song always make me cry....a good cry, a melancholy cry...good for what ails you.

by Rihannareply 504/18/2013

Hugh Jackman was talking about a remake, is it still in Development Hell?

by Rihannareply 604/19/2013

He's actively pursuing Anne Hathaway for his costar which should jumpstart the project. How much better would Sinatra have been than McRae? Do any of you remember the more faithful tv version from 1967 with Carole Lawrence and Robert Goulet?

by Rihannareply 704/19/2013

It was our high school musical, I can sing every song and I was in the orchestra. My favorite song is What's The Use of Wondering?

by Rihannareply 804/19/2013

R7 Good luck with all of that.

by Rihannareply 904/19/2013

I never knew You'll Never Walk Again was written for a musical and not the Jerry Lewis telethon. I never realized how beautifully it could be sung after decades of listening to Lewis croak through it. The singer in the film brought a teat to my eye.

by Rihannareply 1004/19/2013

Wow, that WAS a depressing musical!

by Rihannareply 1104/19/2013

[quote] The singer in the film brought a teat to my eye.

Shirley Jones loves her fans.

by Rihannareply 1204/19/2013

i do love the music, but the plot is a little weird. Basically it saying when your man hits you, it is ok because it means he loves you. and the father comes as a ghost and hits his daughter, and that means he loves her. In the normal world, Billy should of been arrested for battering his wife and daughter. but the musical is rated as one of the best ones ever written.

by Rihannareply 1304/19/2013

Never fall for someone who works on a carrousel.

by Rihannareply 1404/19/2013

[quote]Billy should of been arrested for battering his wife and daughter.

And you SHOULD HAVE been arrested for writing "should of."

by Rihannareply 1504/19/2013

Shirley Jones did not fuck Richard Rogers. He was very much a stable family man.

by Rihannareply 1604/19/2013

[quote]Do any of you remember the more faithful tv version from 1967 with Carole Lawrence and Robert Goulet

I have a copy on DVD that a collector made for me. And Lawrence was not in CAROUSEL. Mary Grover played Julie and Marlyn Mason was Carrie. Carol Lawrence was in KISS ME, KATE with Goulet,Jessica Walter and Michael Callan. Goulet produced four musicals for ABC and was in three of them :CAROUSEL, BRIGADOON (Sally Anne Howes, Peter Falk) and KISS ME, KATE. The 4th production KISMET starred a horribly miscast Jose Ferrer, George Chakiris, Barbara Eden and Anna Maria Alberghetti. All four was wonderful. I have all but KATE.. that one continues to be the missing RoGo (Goulet) productions.

by Rihannareply 1704/19/2013

[quote]Billy should of been arrested

Of you forgotten 4th grade English?

by Rihannareply 1804/19/2013

[quote] In the normal world, Billy should of been arrested for battering his wife and daughter.

In the normal world of 1873 when the show takes place, women were nothing more than the property of their fathers or the men they were married to, so they had no rights.

by Rihannareply 1904/19/2013

[quote] i do love the music, but the plot is a little weird.

The plot comes from the play Liliom, by Ferenc Molnár.

by Rihannareply 2004/19/2013

Common sense wil tell ya that the ending will

be sad,

and now's the time to break and run away,

but what's the use of wondrin'

if the ending will be sad,

you're his girl and he's your fella,

and all the rest is talk.

by Rihannareply 2104/19/2013

I've never seen it, but the premise sounds like a real downer, and I find You'll Never walk Alone a real downer when I hear it.

by Rihannareply 2204/19/2013

It's all about forgiveness.

by Rihannareply 2304/19/2013

[quote]Shirley Jones did not fuck Richard Rogers. He was very much a stable family man.

Are you kidding? He fucked several of his leading ladies, including Jan Clayton and Diahann Carroll.

by Rihannareply 2404/19/2013

Gordon MacRae was pretty hot in Oklahoma but had already gone to seed and tubbiness by the time of Carousel. He did not rock those tight turtlenecks.

And it was only a couple of years later.

by Rihannareply 2504/19/2013

Actually his body is in great shape in CAROUSEL, but those horizontally striped tight period turtlenecks flatter no one. They make him look tubby, which he was not actually--but even so, he still has massive pecs that jut out.

by Rihannareply 2604/19/2013

[quote] Gordon MacRae was pretty hot in Oklahoma but had already gone to seed and tubbiness by the time of Carousel. He did not rock those tight turtlenecks.

That's what alcohol bloat will do to you...

by Rihannareply 2704/19/2013

[quote]Shirley Jones did not fuck Richard Rogers. He was very much a stable family man.

And he kept a bottle of vodka in the tank of his toilet, both to keep it chilled and out of sight. Resourceful but not all that stable.

by Rihannareply 2804/19/2013

[quote]How much better would Sinatra have been than McRae?

Sinatra had an okay voice but he was a shrimp. He would have looked foolish in that role. MacRae had the looks, the size, and a powerful voice.

by Rihannareply 2904/19/2013

Fun fact:

Mrs. Richard (Dorothy) Rodgers invented the toilet bowl brush.

As if the Rodgers family isn't rich enough from all those royalties, they own the patent on one of the most ubiquitous accessories in American households.

by Rihannareply 3004/19/2013

Who's my DADDY?

by Rihannareply 3104/20/2013

I find Hammerstein's obsession with birds disturbing.

by Rihannareply 3304/20/2013

R33=Tippi Hedren

by Rihannareply 3404/20/2013

r34 = Alfred Hitchcock

by Rihannareply 3504/20/2013

R32 = likes to lick crusty stuff off of stall walls at Uncle Wally's 24 Hr Porn Store.

by Rihannareply 3604/20/2013

Hammerstein was heart-felt and sincere and he spoke for millions. His disarming simplicity accounted for much of his popularity. Unlike Sondheim he had the gift of Universal Comprehensibility. Everyone who hears one of his lyrics gets it the first time. There's something to be said for that.

by Rihannareply 3704/20/2013

That play and the role of Billy Bigelow belongs to John Raitt.

by Rihannareply 3804/20/2013

"Sinatra had an okay voice but he was a shrimp. He would have looked foolish in that role."

Actually, Sinatra's shrimpy size might have worked in the role. His Billy Bigelow would have talked tough, but he was so small and frail it would have been clear he didn't do much real harm. That would have given his character a touch of much-needed vulnerability and pathos, something that the beefy, stolid McRae lacked.

by Rihannareply 3904/20/2013

Sinatra went so far as to travel to Boothbay Harbor, Maine where much of the film was shot. According to him, once he got there he learned that they intended to film the movie twice - once in 55mm and again in 35mm. He walked off the job and the studio sued him for a million dollars.

In the end, the film was shot only once in 55m. Some say that Sinatra walked off when he realized that Boothbay Harbor was a long drive away from anything resembling a city and he was unwilling to rough it out there for weeks. Gordon MacRae had to be flown in after being cast at the last second.

by Rihannareply 4004/20/2013

I've never seen this movie, but knowing that Shirley Jones is in it makes me not want to; she ruined "Oklahoma" for me.

Isn't there a line in one of the songs about Billy being "a shrimp". Although I'm glad Sinatra wasn't in it, he would've only made it worse.

R32 has a point. I'm surprised he didn't list any examples from "South Pacific", where Hammerstein's lyrics are at their most child-like, (not that that makes them unsuitable).

by Rihannareply 4104/20/2013

It is surprising to me how they wrote the character of Julie Jordan singing it doesn't matter that your man hits you, he is your feller and you must love him. Because in the previous musical they wrote, Oklahoma, the female lead of Laurie seems a lot more independent.

by Rihannareply 4204/20/2013

But r42, it just goes to show that R&H wrote what was period-appropriate for the character, regardless of the current political sensibilities. They alternated naive and gullible Nellie Forbush with headstrong and sophisticated Mrs. Anna and in Flower Drum Song had 2 leading ladies of very opposite ways.

by Rihannareply 4304/20/2013

Not quite, R43.

In that era it was common for a man to beat his wife. But the moral of the story seems to be that it's okay to do so.

by Rihannareply 4404/20/2013

What's the Use of Wondering? makes my list of Songs for Abused/Badly in need of therapy women. i.e. My Man, Can't Help Lovin' that Man. The play Carousel was based on, by the way, was way darker than the musical by R&H. Billy Bigelow is a bully who beats his wife; R&H downplayed that, just like Maria von Trapp's bipolar disorder.

by Rihannareply 4504/20/2013

I'll take any R&H music and lyrics over most of the crap that passes for music in this era.

Whitney Houston screaming "I wanna dance wit somebody" over and over and over and over and over and over.

James Blunt croaking "You're beautiful! You're beautiful!" over and over and over and over.

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by Rihannareply 4604/20/2013

Carousel has some beautiful music, but it is definitely a bit twisted. The other musical relationship I think is abusive is My Fair Lady. She goes back to him in the end, and he has seemed to have learned nothing with his Liza fetch me my slippers closing line.

I thought McRae and Jones were good in Oklahoma. They movie itself is flat, but I don't think that is on the lead performances. I think Music Man is probably Shirley's best movie musical.

by Rihannareply 4704/20/2013

I want a womyn to sing "What's the Use of Wondrin'" at Michfest just to see how it goes over.

by Rihannareply 4804/20/2013

[quote]Whitney Houston screaming "I wanna dance wit somebody" over and over and over and over and over and over.

That's a different era.

R&H did make beautiful music together, despite Hammerstein's penchant for dumb rhymes.

I might've cast Jane Powell in "Carousel" though.

by Rihannareply 4904/20/2013

I wonder if Marilyn Monroe could have been toned down a bit for the Shirley Jones parts?

by Rihannareply 5004/20/2013

Oklahoma was release in 1955 and Carousel in 1956. Gordon must've been doing a lot of boozing in that period because he looks tubby and his pecs resemble moobs. Love Barbara Ruick and Coramae Turner! And no comment about DL fave, the late Susan Luckey. She was quite a dancer with hottie Jacque D'Amboise!

by Rihannareply 5104/20/2013

Does anyone have the dirt on that big queen who runs the R&H organization, Ted Chapin? I think he likes black guys to pee on him. Just a feeling I get when I see him on these R&H retrospectives.

by Rihannareply 5204/20/2013

"I wonder if Marilyn Monroe could have been toned down a bit for the Shirley Jones parts? "

Singing aside, she wouldn't have fit into "Carousel" or "The Music Man". In both films Shirley Jones played an old maid who isn't interested in men or marriage, until she meets the baritone.

Marilyn was ultra-femme, and never once played a character who was interested in anything except getting a man.

by Rihannareply 5304/20/2013

R45- Two more from the 60's.

"The Very Next Man" from FIORELLO!

"....who cares how frequently he strikes me,

I'll gladly fetch his slippers with my arm in

a sling,

all for the privilege of wearing his ring."

wonder what they changed that verse to in the recent Encores! production of FIORELLO!

And from THE APPLE TREE. "What Makes Me Love Him?"

"He is a good man,

yet I wold love him,

if he abused me or used me ill."

I know that lyric was changed for the Kristin Chenoweth revival at Roundabout Theatre. I just can't recall what that change was.

by Rihannareply 5404/20/2013

R47- More recent productions of MY FAIR LADY have Eliza throw the slippers at Higgins head, and then they both burst out laughing.

by Rihannareply 5504/20/2013

R51- loved Susan Luckey in both CAROUSEL and THE MUSIC MAN films.

by Rihannareply 5604/20/2013

[quote] I know that lyric was changed for the Kristin Chenoweth revival at Roundabout Theatre. I just can't recall what that change was.

I believe it was. I'll have to get out one of the bootleg audios I have to be sure.

He is a good man, but far from perfect

Though on occasion, he's used me ill

by Rihannareply 5704/20/2013

R54--I have the video boot and I checked it too.

by Rihannareply 5804/20/2013

The truly abusive relationship was Nancy and Bill Sykes in "Oliver". "As Long As He Needs Me", while a beautiful song, speaks more to the twisted and abusive relationship than Billy and Julie in "Carousel". Billy isn't a wife-beater and abuser like Sykes. He was angry, depressed and struck out (wrongly), but was truly sorry he did it clearly loved Julie.

by Rihannareply 5904/20/2013

Nancy in "Oliver Twist" is supposed to be a likeable but tragic figure, her man Bill beats her to death after she sings that lovely song about him.

But Billy and Julie in "Carousel" are supposed to have a Great Love, a passion that defies common sense and endures after death. If a remake is ever made they have to either take out the mentions of abuse, or portray their relationship as passionate but seriously dysfunctional.

by Rihannareply 6004/20/2013

You're all talking about spousal abuse and its acceptance by certain wives/girlfriends as if it doesn't exist any more.

by Rihannareply 6104/20/2013

Can the posters who don't like Shirley Jones in Oklahoma or Carousel please explain why? She's seems a perfect fit (particularly in the former)....unless you're talking about some vocal inferiority, of which I might be somewhat ignorant.

Jane Powell? The trilling would have killed it, though not as badly as Kathryn Grayson!

by Rihannareply 6204/20/2013

r60 - that may satisfy your perceptions of what relationships are or should be, but that's not the story.

by Rihannareply 6304/20/2013

It's the Mother Partridge thing, r62. People can't see her in another role.

by Rihannareply 6404/20/2013

Jones was marvelous in the two R&H musicals and THE MUSIC MAN. And an Oscar winner to boot for a dramatic role as Lulu Bains in ELMER GANTRY.

by Rihannareply 6504/20/2013

And movie roles you live to play/ They give to Shirley Jones to do!

by Rihannareply 6604/20/2013

Pia Zadora is currently starring in Carousel in Long Beach, CA., if you are interested and in the neighborhood.

by Rihannareply 6704/20/2013

R67 As what, one of the wooden horses? I think even that would be outside her range.

by Rihannareply 6804/20/2013

LOL@68! I agree!

by Rihannareply 6904/20/2013

[quote]Can the posters who don't like Shirley Jones in Oklahoma or Carousel please explain why? She's seems a perfect fit (particularly in the former).

She's got a lovely voice, and she's very pretty. She's an okay actress over all (in fact when she sings, she actually acts the songs beautifully--she had more problem with acting when delivering dialogue).

But the reason why she's bad for both these roles in because she can't do regional American accents at all--she just stumbles all over them (even more ineptly than Gordon Macrae does). In THE MUSIC MAN she's not required to do a regional accent, and she comes off much better.

by Rihannareply 7004/20/2013

Oh yeah, like Gloria Grahame was brilliant with the Okie accent!

by Rihannareply 7104/20/2013

70+ posts and no mention yet of Gene Nelson's thighs, Cameron Mitchell's pecs or Rod Steiger's furry chest?

by Rihannareply 7204/20/2013

No one ever said Gloria Grahame was brilliant with the Okie accent.

Oscar Hammerstein II was fascinated with transcribing American regional accents into his lyrics, and he should not have been. It usually spelled awkwardness.

by Rihannareply 7304/20/2013

I cahn't say cain't!

by Rihannareply 7404/20/2013

Charlotte Grenwood must have been surprising casting as Aunt Eller for the Oklahoma film. Didn't she usually play more sophisticated dames?

That role would have been a natural fit for Marjorie Main or Mary Wickes.

by Rihannareply 7504/20/2013

Haven't you ever seen Charlotte Greenwood do one of her famous high kicks? She often played sophisticates with a ribald side Aunt Eller was a good fit.

by Rihannareply 7604/20/2013

Don't miss the Lincoln Center "Carouself" on PBS next Friday, April 26th! It is gorgeous!

by Rihannareply 7704/21/2013

[quote]Can the posters who don't like Shirley Jones in Oklahoma or Carousel please explain why? She's seems a perfect fit (particularly in the former)....unless you're talking about some vocal inferiority, of which I might be somewhat ignorant.

[quote]I've never seen this movie, but knowing that Shirley Jones is in it makes me not want to; she ruined "Oklahoma" for me.

Her voice is fine, (although Powell’s and Grayson’s are more developed). She’s right in type. And I didn’t think her General American accent was bad in “Oklahoma”, (in fact, I don’t like when actors overdo accents).

But, I got a cold, insincere vibe from her, which turned me off her. I might’ve overstated it when I said “she ruined it”, but I would’ve preferred a different actress in the part.

by Rihannareply 7804/21/2013

I wonder why R&H didn't sell the film rights to Carousel and Oklahoma to MGM which might have made better versions of those early shows in the late 1940s while the studio was still at the top.

Of course, MGM usually cut most of the original songs out of their versions of Broadway musicals, so perhaps that answers my question.

On the other hand, I think MGM did retain most of Show Boat's score (lyrics by Hammerstein) and Annie Get Your Gun's, which R&H produced on Broadway.

Young Howard Keel might have made a strapping Curly or Billy.

by Rihannareply 7904/21/2013

R&H were very involved in the production of the movie “Oklahoma” and their other adaptations. MGM probably wanted to change things. Or maybe their bid just wasn’t high enough?

[quote]Young Howard Keel might have made a strapping Curly or Billy.

Indeed. Since he played both roles in the West End and was a big movie star at the time, he must've been considered. Maybe MGM wouldn't let him out of his contract?

by Rihannareply 8004/21/2013

R10 had me laughing out loud.

by Rihannareply 8104/21/2013

Hugh Jackman & Audra MacDonald on You Tube. Hugh hits a note that was positively operatic. Brilliant.

by Rihannareply 8204/21/2013

[quote] Hugh hits a note that was positively operatic.

He does? Link, please.

"Oklahoma" at Proms 2010

by Rihannareply 8304/21/2013

I'll J'AMAIS waltz alone! A LONE!!!

by Rihannareply 8404/21/2013

The note he hits is towards the end.

This was in 2002 at Carnegie Hall. He was what, 26?

by Rihannareply 8504/21/2013

[quote]The note he hits is towards the end.

I wouldn't as far as to call that operatic.

by Rihannareply 8604/21/2013

I know it has its faults but of all the musicals this is the one that, without fail, will make me cry. So if I am in the mood for a glass of wine and a good sob, I will put this on.

by Rihannareply 8704/21/2013

[quote]So if I am in the mood for a glass of wine and a good sob, I will put this on.

"Mame" is another musical that can elicit the same response.

by Rihannareply 8804/21/2013

[quote]Young Howard Keel might have made a strapping Curly or Billy.

Only if they could have found him in that mess of Ann Miller's house!

by Rihannareply 8904/21/2013

At 8:18 Gordon McCrae sings the most beautifully haunting notes in film history. Very under rated performer. Carousel has some of the best music R and H ever wrote. The overture? Spectacular. All of Billy's trangressions are allowed because he died a violent death. That was the way back in the days of the Hays code.

by Rihannareply 9004/21/2013

Aren't all the scenes in Carousel with The Starkeeper about Billy learning humility?

It seems to me that R&H do not let him off easy for his transgressions.

One problem with most productions is that Billy is so often cast with an actor 35 or over. It would be easier for the audience to understand the character's flaws if he were a brash 20-something, though perhaps a performer of that age would not be able to sing the role with the necessary depth. I suppose that was a lot of the criticism directed to Michael Hayden in Nicholas Hytner's 90s revival in London and Lincoln Center.

by Rihannareply 9104/21/2013

Yes, the script makes it clear that the community and the Starkeeper (Read: God) do not approve of Billy's abusive ways and that he needs to atone for them. Hammerstein's attempts to "understand" him and paint him as misguided could be taken as a bit suspect, I grant you, but I don't think he in any way condones Billy's behavior. Julie's acceptance of it is very much in character for her and for working-class girls of the period, who didn't have many (or any) better options. I don't think Hammerstein would have a problem with us having a problem with Julie's accepting Billy's abuse, if that makes sense. It's the beauty of their music and the simple poetry of their lyrics that allows us to see into their souls and underneath the limits of their backgrounds and cultural attitudes. This is a much more complex and rich musical than the movie shows or than it is often given credit for. Wish I could have seen the Lincoln Center revival, questionable singing from the lead aside.

by Rihannareply 9204/21/2013

[quote]One problem with most productions is that Billy is so often cast with an actor 35 or over.

Heath Ledger could have done this back in 1999.

by Rihannareply 9304/21/2013

OK, troll. But you know what, if he could sing, maybe he could have. He certainly had the right look. I don't know about in 1999, but in his 20s for sure.

by Rihannareply 9404/21/2013

R88, here

I meant to say the movie "Mame". My comment was meant as a joke about how poorly the 1974 movie is regarded on DL. The story of the original musical is sort of sad.

by Rihannareply 9504/21/2013

Kansas City Repertory Theatre just presented the Living Room production (small fringe company) of CAROUSEL in their enormous theater on the UMKC campus. The first production at the Living Room company downtown got good reviews and was a sell out two years ago. All of the seats at the Spencer Theatre where KC Rep has it's home were removed and the space was reconfigured as a black box enviornment with seating all around. Actors made their entrances from the aisles. Some scenes were performed on the stairs. This production only used a piano and electric guitar. It was modern dress, not period and all of the scenes took place in darkened settings that were 'lit' when one or more of the actors pulled a light bulb chain and the area was illuminated. These light bulbs were hanging all over the performance space/stage. I understand it was a reinvention of a classic ut I hated it. No choreography to speak of. Louise's Ballet lasted about four minutes. The gilr playing the role did a few twirls and one of the longshoremen taught her how to smoke a cigarette. No fantasy carney barker for her. Although there were some good performances in this, I hated it.... Oh, and the Carousel Waltz was trimmed to just a few minutes and presented while cast members standing still and looking at other members of the cast took turns switching those bare white light bulbs on and off.

by Rihannareply 9604/21/2013

[quote]Wish I could have seen the Lincoln Center revival, questionable singing from the lead aside

R96 here- It was wonderful. Beautiful set design. Just thrilling. Although his vocals left a lot to be desired, Michael Hayden was a hell of a good actor. So were Audra McDonald and Sally Murphy. And what can you say about Audra's vocals? Perfection.

by Rihannareply 9704/21/2013

The ballet in the Lincoln Center revival was unforgettable. It stopped the show in a way I've never seen any show stopped.

by Rihannareply 9804/21/2013

I think the problem with the show is the scene between Julie and her daughter after Billy slaps his daughter. Julie says that it is possible for a man to slap a woman good and hard and for it not to hurt at all.

And FYI, in the original play, the "Billy" character does not find redemption and does not make it to heaven.

by Rihannareply 9904/21/2013

Carousel is one of the worst film adaptations of one of the most beautiful Broadway musicals ever made. If any musical is worth refilming, it's Carousel....certainly not Gypsy, for heaven's sakes!

by Rihannareply 10004/21/2013

The "Carousel Waltz" is a beautiful and underrated piece of music, one of the best waltzes ever written.

by Rihannareply 10104/22/2013

I'm so glad R101 mentioned the stellar score from Carousel. When I was in college I played in the orchestra in summers on Broadway and was lucky to play second trumpet there. The Carousel Waltz is exquisite when interpreted as first an out-of-tune victrola starting up.

by Rihannareply 10204/22/2013

A proper old carousel playing the Carousel Waltz is just the best thing. It makes me feel like a kid and any other piece of music is just a huge let down.

by Rihannareply 10304/23/2013

[R54] Interesting that the two musicals you mentioned with "abused woman" lyrics were both written by Sheldon Harnick. I wonder if his dad knocked his mom around a bit. Wonder if Mrs. Sheldon has a shiner on occasion.

by Rihannareply 10401/12/2014

Carousel on TCM this morning. The ballet is probably the most interesting part. I find that the 3 ragamuffins who dance with Louise in the beginning are quite hot. One shows some nip that has potential. They have great butts, and do some amazing acrobatic dancing. They are overlooked in these comments because of the incredible hotness of Jacque D'Amboise. Jacque is amazing. Dances like gravity doesn't know him. Incredible ass. Too bad he is straight.

by Rihannareply 10501/12/2014

Regarding Sinatra as Billy, there are costume test pix out there as Sinatra in his Billy duds. He looks ridiculous. Too skinny. Too New Jersey Italian to be believable as a Maine carnival barker. I think they did much better with Gordon, although I was disappointed on how tubby he looked with those moobs! In "Oklahoma", he looked incredibly hot.

by Rihannareply 10601/12/2014

One of only two films shot in Fox's 65mm widescreen process CinemaScope 55. The other film was THE KING AND I. Fox abandoned the process in favor of Todd-AO.

by Rihannareply 10701/12/2014

R&H originally wanted Judy Garland -- believe it or not -- as Julie. But Garland wanted "Soliloquy" re-written as a duet with Billy. R&H refused to permit the change. Garland out, Jones in

by Rihannareply 10801/12/2014

Even 12 years ago, Hugh Jackman didn't have a beautiful voice.

He sounds like a male Ethel Merman in that clip.

by Rihannareply 10901/12/2014

[R108] Sorry, and I really loved Judy, but that's not the reason she wasn't cast as Julie. Judy in 1956 was as big as a house, and not doing well with her addictions. After Warner Bros dropped her contract following "Star" and she lost the Oscar, it was pretty apparent that her best years were behind her. There's no way Fox would've cast her in "Carousel". Zanuck was a tough mogul like Warner. They turned out films on time and on budget.

by Rihannareply 11005/05/2014

Carousel is on tonight, and Shirley is interviewed with Robert Osbourne. Unfortunately, one of her stories makes no sense. Claims the reason Sinatra dropped out of "Carousel" is because Ava Gardner was doing "Mogombo" with Gable at the time, and he had to get his "fanny" over to Africa so she wouldn't have an affair with Gable. Trouble is "Mogombo" was released in 1953, three years before "Carousel". I'm sure Osbourne was like "Shirley, that's impossible!".

by Rihannareply 11105/05/2014

Well, at least no one gets called a cuntface in this one.

by Rihannareply 11205/05/2014

I love the fact that R10 thinks that someone would sing a song called "You'll Never Walk Again" to a bunch of handicapped children!

by Rihannareply 11305/06/2014

[quote]He was very much a stable family man.

Honey, Dick Rodgers was sure stable in several positions, including when he let me do reverse cowgirl!

by Rihannareply 11405/06/2014

It's on again.

I can't resist.

by Rihannareply 11507/07/2014

Not sure I'd agree that Carousel Waltz is "underrated." It's pretty much one of the staple classics of American music. It always makes me swoon.

by Rihannareply 11607/08/2014

Was Gordon MacRae that fat when he was cast? I can't believe they didn't keep him on a strict diet to get through shooting.

by Rihannareply 11707/08/2014

Maybe he was put on a diet and that's the best he could do.

by Rihannareply 11807/08/2014

For anyone interesteed in Gordon MacRae I would sugguest they read "Mother of the Year" by his first wife Sheila MacRae. It's a hilariously tacky Hollywood memoir by a woman whose ego is not to be believed. All throughout the book she keeps yammering on about how great Hollywood stars keep telling her how incredibly talented she is and how she should make a career for herself in show business instead of just being Mrs, Gordon MacRae. And of course every man who comes in contact with her wants her fantastic bod. Anyway, she goes into detail about the self-destruction of her beloved Gordie. He was a compulsive gambler and hopeless drunk, but she said she probably would have stayed married to him if he could have continued to satisfy her nympho sexual needs. Seems she liked to have sex every day, several times a day. Anyway, it's a tacky memoir and I think she greatly esaggerates how everyone she comes in contact with is bowled over by her beauty and talent, but I think the parts about her beloved Gordie's deterioration are probably true. She portrays him as a "sweet, troubled man" who is bluntly honest, but he comes across as a rude jerk.

by Rihannareply 11907/08/2014

Was Sheila a star in her own right by the time she appeared in the Don Loper episode of I Love Lucy?

She's the only Hollywood wife given any lines in that episode, IIRC.

by Rihannareply 12007/08/2014

[quote]Was Gordon MacRae that fat when he was cast? I can't believe they didn't keep him on a strict diet to get through shooting.

The company of Carousel had just arrived in Boothbay Harbor, Maine to start location filming when Frank Sinatra walked off the movie. Supposedly he was angry to learn that they intended to shoot everything twice, once in widescreen and again in the standard format. That combined with the fact that Boothbay Harbor is remote, isolated, and utterly lacking in night-life was enough to send him packing.

The frantic producers called MacRae in LA and offered him the part on the condition that he fly to Maine the next day and be ready to film. No time for him to diet. He was standing before the rolling cameras within three days of being cast.

by Rihannareply 12107/08/2014

Was the plan to make Billy Bigelow a Nu Yawka with Sinatra in the part? Or a hobo from Hoboken? Billy doesn't really have to be a North Easter.

by Rihannareply 12207/08/2014

I thought it was being shot twice because once was going to be in 3D, or am I thinking of some other '50s movie?

by Rihannareply 12307/08/2014

[quote]it was being shot twice because once was going to be in 3D

The only 3D sequence shot was for "June is Bustin' Out All Over".

by Rihannareply 12407/08/2014

They were going to shoot it twice like they did for [italic]Oklahoma[/italic] because the technology to make standard 35mm prints from a 55mm negative didn't exist yet. But they scrapped the second 35mm CinemaScope version as soon as Sinatra left.

by Rihannareply 12507/08/2014

[quote]But the ultimate Hammerstein I hate is: "When the dog bites / When the bee stings / When I'm feeling sad / I simply remember my favorite things / and then I don't feel so bad!" It reminds me of the childish poetry I used to write in grade school. You know he only used "stings" to rhyme with "things."

Hammerstein wrote for the character and the situation. R32 proves that with the claim of those lyrics sounding like "the childish poetry I used to write in grade school." The bee sting lyrics weren't written for the Captain singing at a formal concert. They were written for Maria to sing to children -- perfect for the characters and situation.

by Rihannareply 12607/08/2014

[quote]They were written for Maria to sing to children -- perfect for the characters and situation.

That's been the biggest problem I've had with Sondheim. His lyrics make his characters sound like lyricists.

by Rihannareply 12707/08/2014

Sheldon Harnick is another lyricist who could fit the lyrics to the character and the situation.

by Rihannareply 12807/08/2014

[quote]They were written for Maria to sing to children -- perfect for the characters and situation.

Actually they were written for Maria to sing to and with the Mother Abbess. The song appears in the play roughly where "I Have Confidence" appears in the film. Mother Abbess allows Maria to sing it to help boost her spirits as she leaves the convent. I believe Maria identifies it as a song she loved as a girl, hence the childish lyrics.

The song fits so perfectly in the bedroom thunderstorm scene that you'd swear it was written for it. In the play, Maria teaches the children "The Lonely Goatherd" to help them brave out the storm. No puppet show in the stage version.

by Rihannareply 12907/09/2014

Richard Rodgers, a good family man?

I'm dying laughing.

by Rihannareply 13007/09/2014
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